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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Former Vice President Kamala Harris was down in Australia for

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Speaker 4: what else right, and I wanted to be there. We

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Speaker 4: couldn't make it the Australian Real Estate Conference twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: five where she delivered or remarks presumably for a fat

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Speaker 4: speaking fee, and actually started weighing in on some of

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Speaker 4: what's happened over the course of the last year or so.

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Speaker 5: Let's roll this first.

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Speaker 4: Clip leaked video of former Vice President Kamala Harris right now. Currently,

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Speaker 4: we should add one of the front runners for the

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty eight election. If you look at polling and

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Speaker 4: a potential candidate and still for California.

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Speaker 6: You imagine how much liquor they go through at the

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Speaker 6: Australian Real Estate conference.

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Speaker 4: Sounds amazing. We really should have been there next year

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty six. We can go ahead and take a

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Speaker 4: look at the clip.

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 7: Worry rightly about what's happening right now in the world.

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Speaker 7: I do worry that it is important that we remember history.

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Speaker 7: It's important we remember the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 8: It's important that we remember that history has taught us

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Speaker 8: that isolation does not equal insulation. It is important that

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Speaker 8: we understand and remember history which taught us the interdependence

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Speaker 8: and interconnection between nations, History that has taught us importance,

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Speaker 8: relationships of trust, the importance of friendships, integrity, honesty.

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Speaker 9: As I said, I think your best work is a Hitaye,

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Speaker 9: for sure percent.

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Speaker 8: You'll hand unemployed right now, you go on in.

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Speaker 10: The speak truth.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So what you heard her just say?

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Speaker 4: They're other than the importance of friendships, which we can

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Speaker 4: all agree on important. Yeah, Evergreen sentiments is a comparison

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Speaker 4: to the nineteen thirties, but not in the context of

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Speaker 4: like rising fascism and authoritarianism domestically, but isolation which is

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Speaker 4: a criticism of Donald Trump's foreign policy obviously through tariffs

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Speaker 4: and other efforts on the world stage, which I don't

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Speaker 4: think you can really call isolationism, but that's what the

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Speaker 4: sort of neoliberal communities is, these moves.

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Speaker 6: As I suppose well in her defense, that there is

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Speaker 6: a there is an interesting parallel and there's a there's

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Speaker 6: a book out now ish about this making parallels between

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Speaker 6: the kind of post World War one or leading into

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Speaker 6: World War one period and now, which is that the

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Speaker 6: like the eighteen eighties and up through up up until

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Speaker 6: World War One were this this first period of globalization

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Speaker 6: of the you know, which you know, yeah, like internationalism

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Speaker 6: becomes a real thing. You also had an international working

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Speaker 6: people's you know movement, the communists, it is international like

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Speaker 6: they called it. They saw themselves as bringing the working

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Speaker 6: classes of the world together.

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Speaker 4: The predicate of the entire Cold War red skin.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and and then World War One happens and the

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Speaker 6: rise of nationalism that that the rise of nationalism that

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Speaker 6: was a reaction to globalism and globalization in the tent

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Speaker 6: and then nineteen hundreds and tens, you know, creates World

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Speaker 6: War One, and then and then produces this like intense

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Speaker 6: retreat away from globalization into the post World War one

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Speaker 6: period where everyone is kind of retrenching and isolationism becomes

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Speaker 6: this yea, you know, this the dominant and the dominant ethos,

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Speaker 6: which then which then produces like even hyper hyper nationalism,

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Speaker 6: and then and then we get World War two out

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Speaker 6: of it.

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Speaker 11: The book argues that the what the what.

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Speaker 6: The proponents of liberal globalization the first time around didn't

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Speaker 6: understand is that it was actually making things worse. It

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Speaker 6: was making things better. If you lived in London and

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Speaker 6: you were in the top ten five to ten percent.

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Speaker 11: Famously, there was some famous qualit you could you know, you.

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Speaker 6: Could order something, you know, you could order anything you

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Speaker 6: wanted from around the world and have it by the

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Speaker 6: end of the day in like nineteen ten or in

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Speaker 6: London or something. But that was only that was you like,

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Speaker 6: that was not ninety plus percent of people from England,

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Speaker 6: and it particularly was devastating for people around the world.

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Speaker 6: And so she's she's right that there is this interesting

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Speaker 6: parallel going on and that the isolationism can lead to

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Speaker 6: cataclysmic world war. It's a paradox like, well, how could

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Speaker 6: that possibly be?

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Speaker 4: Do you think that's what she meant? Though, because I

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Speaker 4: see it as more I.

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Speaker 11: Think she's just thrown out platitudes.

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Speaker 4: Well, she's definitely doing that, Yeah, But I think it's

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Speaker 4: also because her her worldview is shaped right by the

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Speaker 4: post Cold War Fukuyama internationalism, which is very different.

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Speaker 6: She also very much she also very much wants the

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Speaker 6: US to continue to be the.

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Speaker 11: Global cost Actually, yeah, And I think that's the.

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Speaker 6: Moment on Charlotte Charlemagne where he's like, the first caller

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Speaker 6: was like, why are we spending all this money on

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Speaker 6: these wars? Yeah, and she's like, because because you know,

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Speaker 6: if you if we retreat, we're not safe. And like

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Speaker 6: so she really like makes the argument that the US

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Speaker 6: has to be a global superpower or else our national

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Speaker 6: security suffers, and nobody buys that.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting because I think also Trump does buy.

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Speaker 12: Like.

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Speaker 4: Trump has the same general perspective, he has a different

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Speaker 4: way of getting from point A to point B. But

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Speaker 4: he would also say that America's empire, America's prosperity depends

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Speaker 4: on its empire. He just would say he wants it

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Speaker 4: to be a more logical empire. I mean, that's the

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Speaker 4: Greenland Panama approach, Taiwan approached all of this.

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Speaker 5: He thinks it should.

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Speaker 4: Be a more like, more like logical efficient empire than

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Speaker 4: a sort of sprawling USA I D empire. So what

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Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson refers to is gay race communism. That's the

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Speaker 4: that's the uh gay gay race communism, which should be

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Speaker 4: a bumper sticker that you have on your van.

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Speaker 11: By the way, would I be for it or against it?

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Speaker 5: Very for it?

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Speaker 6: Okay race even trying to make sense, but I mean

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Speaker 6: you'd be.

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Speaker 4: Ford it against I suppose. But that's what they would say,

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Speaker 4: right that it's not about the sprawling like EUSAID pro China,

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Speaker 4: integration with the our adversaries and all of that. So

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Speaker 4: it's in the same way in a way, it's the

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Speaker 4: same thing, but it's a different approach to it. And

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Speaker 4: I think Kamala Harris situating herself in this way as

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Speaker 4: I mean polling again, it doesn't it's not a surprise

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Speaker 4: that because of name recognition she's at the top of

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Speaker 4: polls when you look at twenty twenty eight presidential candidates.

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Speaker 4: I think it's it's she's definitely not running away from it.

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Speaker 4: There was a quote in the Times recently of Kamala

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Speaker 4: Harris saying she's staying in the fight, I think is

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Speaker 4: the paraphrased version of what she said. So she's may

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Speaker 4: be speaking at the Australian Real Estate Conference twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 4: but she's very much still involved in American politics. She

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Speaker 4: could run for California governor of California is what Ryan

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Speaker 4: one of the is one of the largest enemies in

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Speaker 4: the world just as a state alone. It's one of

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Speaker 4: the I think's.

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Speaker 6: Like top ten or something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's huge. So she's she's not going anywhere,

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Speaker 4: that's for sure.

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Speaker 6: And we may end up using what we're about to

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Speaker 6: talk about as the headline for this segment if we do.

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Speaker 6: Apologies for making you sit through the Australian Real Estate Convention.

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Speaker 6: But in more Kamala Harris news. In the Jake Tapper

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Speaker 6: Alex Thompson book Original Sin, there's this anecdote that that

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Speaker 6: says that she was quite angry at Anderson Cooper because

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Speaker 6: for pushing her so aggressively on why is Joe Biden

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Speaker 6: having a medical episode in front of the entire country

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Speaker 6: during this debate and not letting the kind of scripted

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Speaker 6: line that she had come up with just sit and

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Speaker 6: then move on. And so Harris told her colleagues, quote,

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Speaker 6: this mother grabber doesn't treat me like the dang vice

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Speaker 6: president of the United States, she said to colleagues. So

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Speaker 6: in the in the book, the longer episode is is

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Speaker 6: kind of when we'll play the Anderson Cooper clip in

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Speaker 6: a second.

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Speaker 11: I remember we covered it at the time. It was

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Speaker 11: quite something.

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Speaker 6: So it goes through her watching the debate with her

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Speaker 6: her staff and she's like, you know, how are how

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Speaker 6: are people responding? And they're like, boss, people are calling

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Speaker 6: for him to drop out, like he's literally dying up

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Speaker 6: on stage. And the Biden campaign said reaches out to

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Speaker 6: her and says, why don't you go ahead and cancel

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Speaker 6: all these like media hits that you have tomorrow because

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Speaker 6: I don't really see, we don't really see what the

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Speaker 6: upside is and you going on and talking about this

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Speaker 6: and she said, no, absolutely not, I'm going for it.

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Speaker 6: So then they sit down and they debate, you know,

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Speaker 6: how they're going to respond? What talking points can they

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Speaker 6: come up with to respond to this medical episode the

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Speaker 6: entire country just witnessed, And they talked so long they

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Speaker 6: miss CBS this morning, because they just talk right through it,

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Speaker 6: they miss another one, and then they get they go

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Speaker 6: on Anderson Cooper, and they had come up with the line, well,

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Speaker 6: just you'll see the talking points. Let's roll this Anderson

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Speaker 6: Cooper back and forth. He was a very different person

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Speaker 6: on the stage four years ago when when you debated him.

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Speaker 6: You must I mean that that's certainly true, is it not?

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Speaker 12: Anderson? The point has to be performance in terms of

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Speaker 12: what a president does, a president who.

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Speaker 9: Against the capitol.

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Speaker 4: No, but I.

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Speaker 12: Got the point that you're making about a one and

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Speaker 12: a half hour debate tonight. I'm talking about three and

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Speaker 12: a half years of performance in work that has been historic.

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Speaker 5: The other night, the other guy on the debate anders Anderson.

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Speaker 6: According to the book, the Biden staff loved that line.

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Speaker 6: And that wasn't that wasn't part of the talking point.

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Speaker 6: But this line she came up with that you're talking

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Speaker 6: about an hour and a half debad. I'm talking about

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Speaker 6: three and a half years of genius delivering for the

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Speaker 6: American people.

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Speaker 11: They Biden campaign loved that.

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Speaker 6: It's all of it was pointless, Like you, there are

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Speaker 6: not words that you can put together to make people

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Speaker 6: unsee what they saw.

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Speaker 4: But this is a problem that Kamala Harrison never will, ever, ever,

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Speaker 4: ever run away from. And it's one that the book identifies.

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Speaker 4: The book shows that she identified immediately. It's obvious that

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Speaker 4: she's locked into this position. Where As she says in

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Speaker 4: the book, what do I do if I distance? What

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Speaker 4: do I look like if I distanced myself from Joe Biden?

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Speaker 4: I looked disloyal? And she's not wrong. I mean you'd look.

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Speaker 11: Like, don't you look like and enabling moron?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And she will never get away from this. I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's no way.

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Speaker 4: This is the this is the defining I mean, she

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Speaker 4: was the vice president. It's not like she was the

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Speaker 4: green jobs are. She was the vice president of the

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Speaker 4: United States. Was regularly this was that clip you just

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Speaker 4: saw was literally right after the debate.

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Speaker 5: But she has three and a half years of.

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Speaker 4: Defending him, so under that's how most people remember her.

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Speaker 5: She was a senator before.

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Speaker 4: So people's memory of Kamala Harris prominently is as Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden's vice president. And I just think it's a permanent

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Speaker 4: stain that she's never really going to be able to shake.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And they Democrats deliberately nominated the person who was

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Speaker 6: in precisely the worst position to talk about the thing

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Speaker 6: that people were most concerned about at that moment, which

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Speaker 6: was this lie that they all told about whether or

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Speaker 6: not Biden was there or not. Yeah, like, if they'd

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Speaker 6: picked anybody else Shapiro, Whitmer, any Knewsom, and literally any

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Speaker 6: other human being other than the Vice president, they would

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Speaker 6: have more distance from Biden and more ability to say

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Speaker 6: I was just as shocked.

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Speaker 11: As you were when I saw that, and I am

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Speaker 11: angry about the cover up.

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Speaker 6: You can't have the vice because the vice president would

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Speaker 6: have to admit that they weren't actually in the meetings

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Speaker 6: and paying any attention.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting because that show.

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Speaker 6: Said Johnny Cash song, which one I mean, it's I

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Speaker 6: don't think he wrote the song, but it's the one

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Speaker 6: where the only way that the guy could get off

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Speaker 6: of the Capitol Punisher getting hanged, Oh, yes, to admit

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Speaker 6: that he was in the arms of his best friend's wife,

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Speaker 6: because that his alibi, yes was to him worse than

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Speaker 6: just getting hanged for a murder he didn't commit.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's interesting because it shows Kamala Harris being sort

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Speaker 4: of undermined by the things that made her vice president,

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Speaker 4: which is that she's she was a black woman, which

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Speaker 4: is why they kept her on the ticket instead of

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Speaker 4: going for another vice presidential candidate, because they didn't want

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Speaker 4: to look and you see this come out at some

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Speaker 4: points in the book too.

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Speaker 13: It looks horrible if you pass up the opportunity to

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Speaker 13: have the first black woman president and then you're like, nope,

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Speaker 13: we are going with we're going to run Josh Shapiro

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Speaker 13: as by president, or we are going to then have

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Speaker 13: this little mini primary skip over her.

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Speaker 4: So then she gets put in this position because she

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Speaker 4: was seen as the necessary air parent. And I mean

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Speaker 4: any sitting vice president would have been in that position,

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Speaker 4: but I think they were especially wary of having a

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Speaker 4: mini primary because it would look like they didn't have

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Speaker 4: faith in this pic. So it's just like she was

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Speaker 4: that she was in an awful position that I don't

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Speaker 4: think she's ever going.

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Speaker 5: To recover from.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 4: Granted, she could still win different elections if they're in

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Speaker 4: a lesser of two evil situation where there's a horrible

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Speaker 4: Republican candidate in California, that's you know, obviously not I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't surprise anybody, But so it's possible she continues to

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Speaker 4: climb the ladder. But whether she's actually able her national

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Speaker 4: reputation as ever able to recover and she's actually going

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Speaker 4: to be seen as a real leader in the Democratic

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Speaker 4: Party again, I think is unlikely because this is everyone's

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Speaker 4: memory of her, and I just don't know how you

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Speaker 4: recover from that without changing completely a total tra information

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Speaker 4: of Kamala Harris, and that also seems very unlikely.

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Speaker 11: She's got time.

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Speaker 6: The song was written by Danny Dill and Mary John Wilkin,

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Speaker 6: originally recorded by Lefty Frizelle, Lefty Frizelle.

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Speaker 11: The Long Black Veil.

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Speaker 5: Oh, long Black Veil.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, you can probably play that right, Oh, absolutely yes,

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Speaker 4: and have a beautiful song, beautiful American song too.

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Speaker 6: All right, Up next, Jordan Peterson getting dog walked by

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Speaker 6: a bunch of college kids.

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Speaker 4: Well, Jordan Peterson made a splashy appearance on the Jubilee Show,

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Speaker 4: and boy do we have a couple of clips.

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Speaker 5: It did not go well.

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Speaker 4: Basically, nobody thinks it went well for Jordan Peterson. That

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Speaker 4: includes corners of the right that typically defend Jordan Peterson,

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Speaker 4: who is controversial on the right. We'll get into all

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Speaker 4: of that because this confirms a lot of the criticisms

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Speaker 4: of Jordan Peterson. This was a debate that was originally

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Speaker 4: billed as one Christian versus twenty Atheists, and that was

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Speaker 4: the title of that do you Believe?

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Speaker 6: Video.

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Speaker 4: We are going to get into why that's controversial and

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Speaker 4: why that became controversial before we do, take a look

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Speaker 4: at this first clip D one.

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Speaker 9: So do you believe in the all knowing, how powerful,

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Speaker 9: all good notion of God?

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Speaker 10: What do you mean by believe?

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Speaker 9: Do you think it's be true?

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Speaker 14: That's the circular definition. What do you mean how believe?

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Speaker 9: How is that circular?

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Speaker 14: Because you added no content to the answer by substituting

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Speaker 14: the word true and believe.

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Speaker 9: I said, you think it's be true?

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Speaker 10: All right?

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Speaker 14: So if you believe something, you stake your life on it.

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Speaker 9: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 10: You live for it.

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Speaker 14: And you die for it. That's what I mean by that.

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Speaker 14: It isn't something that you say. It isn't something that's

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Speaker 14: associated with logical consistency. It's not declarative, it's not propositional.

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Speaker 14: It's not a figment of your imagination. It's the presupposition

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Speaker 14: of your attention and your action. And you're either fgmented

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Speaker 14: in which case you worship multiple gods or there's some

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Speaker 14: unity at the bottom of it that makes you an

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Speaker 14: unstoppable force.

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Speaker 9: Okay, So you're saying that you don't believe something if

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Speaker 9: you wouldn't die for it.

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Speaker 10: Really no? Okay?

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Speaker 14: So now would you define belief something you say in case?

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Speaker 6: Why?

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Speaker 9: I explained like I could believe it is the case

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Speaker 9: that this pen exists. But if someone like threatened my life, right,

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Speaker 9: I would lie in order to be able to save

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Speaker 9: my life. Right Like? I think you would do that too.

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Speaker 9: You wouldn't lie to.

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Speaker 10: Save your life.

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Speaker 9: You're so sure you wouldn't lie to save your life.

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Speaker 14: How much do you know about me? I didn't lie

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Speaker 14: to save my career. I didn't lie to save my

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Speaker 14: clinical practice.

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Speaker 9: Would you lie to save your children and your mom?

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Speaker 9: Your dad?

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Speaker 14: I don't think lying would save.

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Speaker 9: The Can there ever be a circumstance logically that lying

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Speaker 9: could save something?

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Speaker 14: Yeah, And if you're steeped in sin, you're likely live

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Speaker 14: in circumstances like that.

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Speaker 9: We'll give you an example. If you're like in like

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Speaker 9: Nazi Germany, and it is the case that there's like

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Speaker 9: Jewish people in your attic and you're trying to protect them,

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Speaker 9: would you lie to like the Nazis.

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Speaker 14: Would have done everything I bloody well could, so I

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Speaker 14: wouldn't be in that situation to begin with. It's a hypothetical,

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Speaker 14: and it's no, I can't answer hypothetical like that because

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Speaker 14: it's Look, you don't play games. If you present me

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Speaker 14: with an intractable moral choice that's stripped of context.

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Speaker 10: And you back me into a corner, you're playing game.

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Speaker 14: I just told you I would do everything that I

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Speaker 14: could to make sure that I'm never in that situation.

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Speaker 14: By the time you've got there, you've made so many

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Speaker 14: mistakes that there's nothing you can do that isn't a.

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Speaker 9: Sin being born in Nazi Germany and trying to protect

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Speaker 9: people that you care about, Like there could be a

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Speaker 9: Jewish friend that you have and you want to protect that.

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Speaker 10: That line of question.

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Speaker 9: Give up on just like trying to clarify your position

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Speaker 9: because you don't like, are you like uncomfortable with me

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Speaker 9: asking this question? It's just a basic hypothetical, Like I

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Speaker 9: could ask you just a basic anathetical where you're like, what.

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Speaker 10: Jews life's at stake in Nazi Germany?

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Speaker 9: That's just a basic Obviously, you will lie in that

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Speaker 9: scenario to save their life. But you're like not trying

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Speaker 9: to answer this question. So what you're trying to do

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Speaker 9: is you're trying to muddy the waters when I ask you, like,

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Speaker 9: do you believe this? Do you think this to be true?

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Speaker 9: So you don't actually to answer the questions. And plenty

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Speaker 9: of Christians don't like that because they clearly see that

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Speaker 9: you don't really want to be associated with Christian.

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Speaker 14: Imagine that I was in a situation where the best

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Speaker 14: I could do as a consequence of my previous mistakes

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Speaker 14: was to tell the least amount of lie I could manage.

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Speaker 4: All right, so Ryan, first of all, I would lie

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Speaker 4: to save you. But we're all chomping at the bit

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Speaker 4: to respond to that. Before we do, let's roll this

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Speaker 4: next clip of another person getting the better of Jordan

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Speaker 4: Peterson in this exchange the.

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Speaker 1: Scope for your definition of worship again, what's your definition

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Speaker 1: of worship? Attend to attend to do?

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Speaker 10: Prioritize do Catholic sacrifice?

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Speaker 6: For?

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Speaker 1: What do Catholics attend to do? They prioritize Mary over

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Speaker 1: all other human beings.

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Speaker 14: I didn't say over all, did I? I didn't add

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Speaker 14: that to me? You understand, I said there was a

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Speaker 14: hierarchy as well. You attend so you can attend to

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Speaker 14: some thing trivially or you can attend to it deeply.

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Speaker 1: I mean, now you're adding stuff to the definition, but

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Speaker 1: your original.

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Speaker 14: Added the hierarchy part at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Are you familiar understand? Are you familiar with the Immaculate conception?

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Speaker 10: Why is that relevant?

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Speaker 1: Because you go to a Catholic church?

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Speaker 6: Don't?

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Speaker 1: Or you've attended recently? You're interested in Catholicism, aren't you sure?

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Speaker 10: All right?

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Speaker 1: Are you familiar with their doctrines?

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Speaker 10: Somewhat?

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're familiar. How do they regard how do they

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Speaker 1: regard Mary? Why are you asking me because you're a Christian?

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Speaker 10: You say that I haven't claimed that.

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Speaker 1: Oh what is this? Is this a Christians versus Atheist?

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Speaker 10: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You don't know where you are right now.

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Speaker 10: Don't be a smart ass?

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Speaker 1: Well, and I mean, either you're a Christian or if

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Speaker 1: you're a smart ass, oh, either you're a Christian or

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Speaker 1: you're not. Which one is it?

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Speaker 10: I could be either of them.

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Speaker 14: But I don't have to take you.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to tell me. I was under the

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Speaker 1: impression I was invited to talk to a Christian. Am

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Speaker 1: I not talking to a Christian?

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Speaker 10: No, you were invited.

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Speaker 1: To I think everyone should look at the title of

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Speaker 1: the YouTube channel. You're probably in the wrong YouTube video.

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Speaker 10: You're really quite something.

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Speaker 1: You are, aren't I? But you're really quite right. You're

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Speaker 1: not a Christian.

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Speaker 10: I'm done with him, all right.

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Speaker 4: So that guy came out later and said, indeed, the

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Speaker 4: event was billed to the people during casting and who

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Speaker 4: were invited as Jordan Peterson as a Christian versus twenty atheists,

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Speaker 4: And so the controversy because the video has since been

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Speaker 4: changed to from one Christian versus twenty atheists to Jordan

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Speaker 4: Peterson versus.

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Speaker 5: Twenty Yeah, define a Jordan. Can you define a Jordan Peterson? Right?

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Speaker 5: But Jordan Peterson, if you are a Christian.

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Speaker 4: People know that Jordan Peterson has long been seen as

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Speaker 4: very problematic because he goes out and does these what

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Speaker 4: are billed as very deep academic lectures on Christianity, but

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Speaker 4: cannot bring himself to ultimately say that he believes in

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Speaker 4: the truth of the resurrection, he believes that Jesus actually

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Speaker 4: died and raised, was raised from the dead, and is

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Speaker 4: not is more of like a maybe the right way

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Speaker 4: to say it would be a.

447
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 11: Cold Christian like the heretic.

448
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 5: He's definitely a heretic, but everyone has sort of given him.

449
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 4: Everyone's sort of given him some patience because he's sort

450
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: of discovering. It's almost like Russell brand right, like he's

451
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 4: he's on a he seems like he's on a journey,

452
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 4: cooked right, right, right. But in the process he has

453
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 4: said some things that are just utterly heretical. He has

454
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 4: a terrible representation of Christianity. But the twenty Atheists brought

455
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 4: that out better than most conservatives ever have. In conversation

456
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: with Jordan Peterson, So what did you make of it?

457
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 9: Ryan?

458
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 11: The whole thing is comical. The guy's such a fraud.

459
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 6: And the final line was devastating because it was blunt

460
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 6: but also earned, like like he said he wouldn't say

461
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 6: whether it's a Christian or not, and then he used

462
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 6: the line you're really something, aren't you set him up

463
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 6: for this? Frying pan across the face walked right in

464
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 6: and you're really nothing like and so the kid had

465
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 6: such a delightful retort because it works on so many levels.

466
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 6: It's like, Okay, you're nothing because you won't say whether

467
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 6: you're a Christian or you're an atheist, and yet you

468
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 6: showed up here at this debate where you're supposed to

469
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 6: be a Christian. You won't allow anything to be defined,

470
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 6: so you constantly escape having to make any genuine analysis

471
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 6: or give any thought to anything.

472
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 11: But it works on the deeper level that there.

473
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 6: Is nothing there, like and you know you should clean

474
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 6: your room, like that's this big thing, Like you should

475
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 6: actually do that, like it's smart.

476
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: But he can't answer the question of why. Ultimately why

477
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 4: he's the satisfaction of really anybody, just that it's like

478
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 4: the Christians would say, there's a reason that you should

479
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 4: do that, but he's never been able to get from

480
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: point A to point B on that in a way

481
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: that the.

482
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 6: First one was hilarious, where he's like, I would not

483
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 6: have put myself in that situation. I would have done

484
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 6: things to prevent it. So what are the things that

485
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 6: he could have done? The kid mentions one of them,

486
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 6: you could be not born in Nazi Germany, but like

487
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 6: in the hypothetical, that's not that's not an option, like

488
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 6: you were born into that. After that is he saying that.

489
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 11: He would have, through force of will, prevented the rise

490
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 11: of Hitler.

491
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, is he saying he would just not have actually

492
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 6: participated in rescuing Jews.

493
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 11: From the Holocaust.

494
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 6: Well, he's making this, he'saying he would have been a Nazi,

495
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 6: so therefore he would have been actually knocking on the doors,

496
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 6: not on the other side of it.

497
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 4: Well he's making Yeah, I mean it doesn't what he's

498
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 4: saying actually does not make any sense.

499
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 5: And that's what everyone There's no.

500
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 4: Logical route to the point he's making, because that would

501
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 4: be predicated on this idea that truth prevents awfulness from happening,

502
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 4: that a culture can be sort of like based on

503
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 4: universal truths and it will all be great, which is

504
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 4: not Christian at all, because the truth, the fundamental truth

505
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 4: at the heart of Christianity is that man is fallen.

506
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: So if you're a Christian, even that even classical liberalists

507
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 4: and democracy doesn't save you from evil. So it doesn't

508
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 4: save you prevent you from being put in those awful positions.

509
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 4: So no, that doesn't make sense sense in of itself.

510
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: But Brian also Jordan Peterson is sort of in this

511
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: position where I don't know if I blame him or

512
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 4: do believe because he's talked about himself as people ask

513
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 4: him if he's a Christian and.

514
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 11: Are there are other Christians you could get?

515
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 4: Of course, but he also doesn't even ever agree with

516
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 4: anybody saying he's a Christian. He always sort of takes

517
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 4: it and says, well, I'm a new kind of Christian.

518
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 4: That's one way he's answered the question. The other way

519
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 4: he's answered the question is by saying, you know, I'm

520
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 4: a Christian in the deepest possible sense. He says he

521
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 4: believes this whole thing is that the stories of Christianity,

522
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 4: Judeo Christianity are these like human archetypes that are based

523
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 4: on the truth about humanity that's.

524
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: Inside of us.

525
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: And because he's a psychiatrist, a psychologist, and so he

526
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 4: pulls that out and says, this is very like Youngian

527
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: approach to what truth is. And then Christianity, through that

528
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 4: lens is true in the sense that it's human and

529
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 4: it's just a mess. As you're trying to work that

530
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: out in public and also be treated as like a

531
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: political spokesperson for the right.

532
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 5: So I feel like I.

533
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 4: Don't know whether Jordan Peterson agreed to that or if

534
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 4: Jubilee invited people to do one Christian versus twenty atheists.

535
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 4: I don't know if Jordan Peterson, I mean the kid

536
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 4: who we just played, I don't know if he's a kid.

537
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 4: But he came out, he looks young and said stu

538
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 4: As Canal, No, that's like back call back to earlier

539
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 4: in the episode. But he came out and said, Jordan

540
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 4: Peterson seemed to know that that was what the debate

541
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 4: was being billed as before.

542
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, of course he did. Anyway, Jordan Peterson got erect.

543
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 4: Well, my final take Andrew Peterson is just that he

544
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 4: is a person who said something really obvious at a

545
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 4: time when it was somewhat difficult to say something like that.

546
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 5: And he made a good point.

547
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 6: What was the point.

548
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: It's just his his interview, No, his his original interview

549
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 4: that went megaviral. He had already started to have some

550
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: presence before this, but about like biological sex, that.

551
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 11: Goes megaviral, that's where he took off.

552
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, catapults him the huge fame after that. The book

553
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: comes out and becomes this massive bestseller. And I think

554
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: the book did some real good and I also think

555
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 4: it was low hanging fruit, and so because of that,

556
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 4: he was catapulted into megastardom, which is difficult for anybody

557
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 4: to cope with. He seems like he's coping with it

558
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 4: not particularly well.

559
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 5: And on top of that.

560
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,239
Speaker 4: He was famous for picking some low hanging fruit, and

561
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 4: that doesn't make you a genius, you know, to sort

562
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: of make a point about biological sex and then to

563
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: make some decent points for young men. It was hard

564
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 4: to say those things at the time, but it doesn't

565
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: take a genius. But I think he's been thrust into

566
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 4: this position where everyone expects him to be a towering

567
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 4: thought leader and he never really came from that background.

568
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 4: He just he said something really right, right right. It's

569
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 4: easy to confuse it when everyone is you're selling out

570
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: massive venues around the country and you have massive bestseller

571
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 4: and everyone's telling you that people are paying money for

572
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 4: your advice, big money for your advice. So so I

573
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: think that's the position that he's found himself in now.

574
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 4: And unheard, we've covered this debate about cultural Christianity a

575
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: lot Ione Hersili wrote that essay for us about how

576
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 4: she's now a Christian, not just cultural Christian. This is

577
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: something real going on. I interviewed Alex O'Connor after he

578
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: moderated a debate between Dawkins and Jordan Peterson, which was

579
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 4: just as frustrating as this, because Peterson cannot bring himself

580
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: to say that he believes he'll use different definitions of

581
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: true about what's true about Christianity. So let's let's find

582
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 4: another representation on that side of the debate. I think

583
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: at this point going forward, it's we can no longer

584
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 4: rely on Jordan Peterson to represent a sort of cogent

585
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: side of the right going forward.

586
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 6: He's on his own journey, all right, Jubilee to get

587
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 6: it together. Let's move over to Trump, who is now

588
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 6: engaged in a pardon spree, and we'll talk about a

589
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 6: whole bunch of these that he just did. Todd and

590
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 6: Julie from the from the reality TV. So they're they're

591
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 6: getting they're getting a pardon.

592
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 11: Uh.

593
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 6: Ken Vogel has a piece of the New York Times

594
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 6: about this fraudster whose mom gave a million bucks to

595
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 6: Trump and did three fundraisers for Trump and got a

596
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 6: got a pardon just before he was about to report

597
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 6: to prison. I believe I don't think he'd ever actually

598
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 6: had to go to prison. We'll talk about his crimes

599
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 6: are really atrocious. Uh. And then a sheriff in Virginia

600
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 6: who was basically selling a fake badges and letting like

601
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 6: rich people the the fake deputies in order for bribes.

602
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 6: In exchange for bribes, he also got pardon. So let's

603
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 6: start with the first element. Up here, there's Alice Johnson,

604
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 6: who was pardoned during Trump won and when Trump.

605
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 11: Is so proud to have pardoned her. She was in

606
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 11: prison for.

607
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 6: Selling drugs and running a kind of drug empire, and

608
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 6: she's now sort of become the pardons.

609
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 5: Of her She was over prosecuted.

610
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the argument he's going to make about

611
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 4: these inner pardons.

612
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 11: Yea mostly weed dealing, right, it wasn't crack.

613
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 5: I thought it was cracked. Anyway, go back and live.

614
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 6: Yes, So anyway, here here they are in the Oval

615
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 6: office calling up Christ.

616
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 15: It's a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing, but it's

617
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 15: a great thing because your parents are going to be

618
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 15: free and clean.

619
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 10: And I hope we can do it by tomorrow.

620
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 15: He said, Okay, we'll try getting it dont tomorrow.

621
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 16: So wonderful.

622
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 15: Give them I don't know them, but give them my

623
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 15: regards and wish wish them a good life.

624
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 10: Yes, thank you for bringing up parents.

625
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 15: Yeah, well they were given a pretty harsh treatment based

626
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 15: on what I'm hearing. Congratulate your Parlavannah and Alice had

627
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 15: a lot to do with this, and just congratulate your

628
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 15: parents and I hit it terrific people that should not

629
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 15: have happened. So and you, well they have they have

630
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 15: good good children. You no longer children, but I'll say

631
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 15: it anyway, they have good children, don't they?

632
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 6: So top reality TV stars? They were busted for tax evasion.

633
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 6: This is not not one I get super worked up about.

634
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 6: Because they did some time, They did the crime, they

635
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 6: did some time. And does the world necessarily benefit from

636
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 6: them spending twenty years in prison? I'd like, I don't.

637
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 6: I don't want people to get special treatment just because

638
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 6: they're getting special I was, they're getting special dent literally

639
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 6: special treatment.

640
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 11: They're literally getting pardoned by the President.

641
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 6: United States now, so that that is ridiculous and outrageous.

642
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 6: By setting that aside, you know, you do, you do

643
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 6: your tax evation, go do some do a little bit

644
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 6: of time, like you don't need to lock these non

645
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 6: violent people up for decades.

646
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: The Alice Johnson pardon. People remember from Kim Kardashian's spearheading

647
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 4: that effort I think with Van Jones, but that was

648
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 4: coupled with what was called the First Step Act, which

649
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: was a large scale policy effort. But this is you know,

650
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: not that this is very much that's it. That's the

651
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 4: kind of difference. But between targeting one over prosecution and

652
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: then coupling it with a big policy act, that's not

653
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: what's happening in this case. This is literally just special

654
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 4: treatment based on Savannah Chrisly and that's who he was

655
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: talking to. I was talking to the Chrysalies children. Savannah

656
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 4: Crystally was the voice that.

657
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 6: You watched that one.

658
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 5: I watched it when it first came out.

659
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 4: It was pretty like I feel like it cooked the

660
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 4: first couple of years, and then it went down Yeah,

661
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: it went downhill. But that was the era of like

662
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: Duck Dynasty, when these big networks were trying to appeal

663
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: more to Middle America by putting these like family sitcom

664
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: type reality shows out and it was fine for a

665
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 4: little while, but it just it wore off. The luster

666
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: wore off pretty quickly with that one. They're not the

667
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 4: most appealing characters.

668
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the argument on their behalf was that the

669
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 6: IRS and the lead IRS person that was going after them,

670
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 6: had their like face up on a bullseye, and like

671
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 6: really wanted them and considered them to be like Trump's

672
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 6: kind of avatar.

673
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: Said they were the Trumps of Georgia, right, and.

674
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 6: So there was some political motivation behind going after them,

675
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 6: according to this defense. And you know, all right, they

676
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 6: got them, they did a little time.

677
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 11: Let them go.

678
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 6: It's fine.

679
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 4: Their tax advisor also went to jail was also prosecuted

680
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: for this. They were found guilty of tax evasion and

681
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 4: bank fraud. Basically, they were hiding their money to defraud

682
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 4: the irs and banks is what they were found guilty of,

683
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 4: as well as the tax advisor, the financial advisor in

684
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 4: this case. We don't have to dwell too much on

685
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 4: the Christly case because there are a couple of other ones.

686
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: But I will just say, Ryan, I remember at the

687
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 4: R and and See I was sitting in the press

688
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 4: thing watching the kind of boring stuff happen before you

689
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 4: get the keynote every night, and Savannah Chrystly came out

690
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 4: and did this like utterly what's the right word, like obsequious.

691
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: Pitch to about her parents to Donald Trump.

692
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: And it was so cringe worthy because it was so

693
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: it was such a nakedly transactional attempt to free her

694
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: parents from prison, and I remember thinking, oh my gosh,

695
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 4: this is going to work.

696
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 6: Here we are.

697
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 4: She went on Laura Trump's Fox News show just in

698
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: the last several weeks, and Savannah credits that with bringing

699
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 4: it to Trump's attention. She said, just in the last

700
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 4: twenty four hours, Like he watches every edition of that show,

701
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 4: and I'm pretty sure it's what brought it back to

702
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 4: his attention. So it's just sort of funny how easy

703
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 4: it is to cooperate with Donald Trump, How easy it

704
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: is to negotiate with Donald Trump. You just have to

705
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 4: I remember watching this at the RNC and hearing her

706
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 4: compare their plate to Trump's and just thinking, oh my gosh,

707
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 4: this is going to play him like a fiddle.

708
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 6: Yeah. One of the things, like the word the word downtown,

709
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: is that one of the ways you're supposed to pay

710
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 6: Trump now is not just the Trump coin, but you're

711
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 6: supposed to qute unquote invest in Millennia's documentary, like you know,

712
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 6: because there's all these legal ways you can move money,

713
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 6: like hey, you put in put in a million dollars,

714
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 6: you become an investor in this documentary. Oh, it turns

715
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 6: out documentary is not going to make any money. It's

716
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 6: a write off for you. It's a business loss. You

717
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 6: invested it, you lost it. But it's a legal bride.

718
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 6: The other way, of course, is Trump sues, you look

719
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 6: at your CBS and then you pay him a settlement.

720
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 6: So it's all these clever legal ways to do bribery.

721
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 6: Some of it is just you just give him a

722
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 6: million dollars, which is what Paul Walls X mother did.

723
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 6: So move to move to the next one. Great great

724
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 6: story by Ken Vogel in The Times. So this is

725
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 6: a guy who dropped out of college and then inherited

726
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 6: his were a meritocracy, so he inherited his mom's nursing

727
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 6: home company in Florida, Red Flag already nursing home company

728
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 6: in Florida. Uh. The way that these companies, all companies

729
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 6: work is you you withhold money for soci security and

730
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 6: Medicare payroll taxes from your employees and then you send

731
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 6: that to the state in the federal government like you

732
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 6: withhold the tax money and then goes back to the

733
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 6: state because it's not your money, like it's they earned it.

734
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 6: It's their paycheck. But you you do handle it like

735
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 6: the businesses handle it. If you notice on your paycheck

736
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 6: this money is withheld, there is a bank account that

737
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 6: that withholding goes to before it is sent off to

738
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 6: the government. And what a company can do, what a

739
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 6: CEO can do is just take that money. Yep.

740
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 11: And that's what Waalzac was convicted of doing. He took

741
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 11: that money. He bought a two million dollar yacht.

742
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 6: And lived just a normal you know, Bergdorf, Goodman, Cardier. Uh,

743
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 6: just lived enormously large with stolen money. His mom, you know,

744
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 6: you know, who was wealthy from having run this nursing

745
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 6: home company. You know, he hosted three fundraisers for Trump.

746
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 6: So it gets you in the good graces big fundraisers too. Yeah,

747
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 6: and and but then it was she paid what a

748
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 6: million dollars? Uh, you know, So they reached out like

749
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 6: they're trying to get this, get the son clemency. So

750
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 6: she reaches out to do this. She then gets invited.

751
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 6: So this is how this works. They know she wants

752
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 6: something from them. So then, as he writes, miss Fagga

753
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 6: was invited to a million dollar per person fundraising dinner

754
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 6: last month that promised face to face access to mister

755
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 6: Trump at his private Marlogue Club in Palm Beach, Florida.

756
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 6: Less than three weeks after she attended the dinner, mister

757
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 6: Trump signed a full and unconditional pardon. It came just

758
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 6: in the nick of time for mister Wallzac, sparing him

759
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 6: from having to pay nearly four point four million in

760
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 6: restitution and from reporting to prison for an eighteen month

761
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 6: sentence that had been handed down just twelve days earlier.

762
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 6: A judge had justified the incarceration by declaring that their

763
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 6: quote is not a get out of jail free card

764
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 6: for the rich. False? There literally, judge, there literally is

765
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 6: a get out of jail free card?

766
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 11: Or is that rich?

767
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 4: Bold like the visa card, but it could be it

768
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 4: might as well be a million dollars.

769
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so wildly and Sanley corrupt. This is a

770
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 6: person who stole money from working people to buy literally

771
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 6: to buy a yacht, and then used some of that

772
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 6: stolen money or his mother, I guess his mother's. Let's

773
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 6: assume she didn't steal the money, used money that they

774
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 6: made on the backs of the workers. We can at

775
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 6: least say that and paid it to Trump. And now

776
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 6: he's not just commuted like there's different you can do.

777
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 6: You can commute a sentence which leaves the felony on

778
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 6: your record, and you would you could he could have said,

779
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 6: I'm commuting the sentence, but you still have to pay

780
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 6: the restitution to the workers four point four million that

781
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 6: you've been sentenced to pay. You can also just do

782
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 6: a full and unconditional pardon. You you would keep their money.

783
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 6: You earned it. How'd you earn it? By having the

784
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 6: password to the bank account and moving it from them

785
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 6: to yourself, So and not it won't spend a day

786
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 6: in jail. Yeah, and you can keep going, go ahead,

787
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 6: keep the money.

788
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 8: No.

789
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 4: This story by Vogel is insane, and it also gets

790
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 4: into the wild connection between the Ashley Biden diary project Veritas.

791
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 6: Oh, we didn't even talk about that lay that element,

792
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 6: because that's the argument that his mother made, that his

793
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 6: mother was involved with this actually Biden document diary and

794
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 6: that the law enforcement came after them, and so this

795
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 6: was actually all payback.

796
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 11: It wasn't about the workers that he stole the money from.

797
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 6: Was this was payback? So yeah, what was the do

798
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 6: you guys remember this actually Biden diary.

799
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 4: It's a I mean, the diary is a horrible.

800
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 11: She went to this rehab, she left a diary behind.

801
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: That had allegations that were disgusting.

802
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 6: Somebody that it Basically it said, was it weird that

803
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 6: my dad would shower with me or something like that when.

804
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 4: I was older?

805
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 6: Yeah?

806
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.

807
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 6: Some creepy stuff in there, yes, and you know, not

808
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 6: no smoking gun, but creepy stuff.

809
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: And who knows if that's true.

810
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 4: It was a diary of someone who was mentally unwell

811
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: in rehab, but it was there.

812
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 6: Right, and then somebody finds it, sells it like there's

813
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 6: this whole sordid Coen Brothers esque.

814
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 5: It is very Coen Brothers.

815
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 6: So that winds up with it getting published project and

816
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 6: then project very test like oh Keith got raided over this?

817
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yes exactly.

818
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 4: So a man who's friends with Fago contacts her about

819
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 4: the diary. Uh Ken Vogel writes when she was first

820
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: told of the diary, she said she thought it would

821
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 4: help mister Trump's chances of winning the election. And then

822
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 4: they brought that diary to a fundraiser at her home

823
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 4: that Donald Trump Junior and Kimberly Guilfoyle attended.

824
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 6: The diary and Trump Junior was like, did get this

825
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 6: away from me? This is yeah, Trump, I think, I

826
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 6: think this is one place where Trump Junior actually did

827
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 6: the right thing.

828
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 11: He was like, who wha, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't

829
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 11: do not involve me with this.

830
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 5: It's crazy. It's just such a crazy story with.

831
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,479
Speaker 11: Donald Trump Junior is like, this is this is too much.

832
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 4: The fact that this is this woman was involved in that,

833
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 4: Like you said, Cohen Brothers ass the only way you

834
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 4: can even look at it.

835
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 11: And he was so then it starts getting bought and sold, right.

836
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 4: So Walsh was about to what was it was about

837
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 4: to be sentenced, and so.

838
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 11: The party was sentence. He was about to report in prison.

839
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: It was about to report and Ken writes came quote

840
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 4: just in the nick of time, clearly and when just

841
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: to note there is it's similar to the Savannah Christly

842
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: case of people knowing how to make these appeals.

843
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 5: So the mom Fogo.

844
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 4: Was apparently openly making an appeal based on her related

845
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: like persecution.

846
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 6: We were persecuted, Yeah exactly, yep, exactly.

847
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 4: So now we have this other story. This is I

848
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 4: believe the next element. Yeah, this is E four. So

849
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: this is a story of sheriff Scott Jenkins, who Trump

850
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 4: is giving a quote full and unconditional pardon. Two.

851
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 5: He was also he was the one who was about to.

852
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 6: Report end commentator and future Kentucky.

853
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: Senator, oh Scott Jennings. Scott Jennings, Scott Jenkins, who was

854
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 4: convicted on federal bribery charges last year. He was about

855
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 4: to report to prison. I think today he was about

856
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 4: to report to prison, and then within twenty four hours

857
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 4: of him reporting to prison, Trump pardoned him. So from

858
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: Reuter's they write, he was quite a former Virginia sheriff

859
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: who served in area about two hours outside DC was

860
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 4: convicted by a jury December twenty twenty four for accepting

861
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 4: more than seventy five thousand dollars in bribes in exchange

862
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 4: for appointment as auxiliary deputy sheriffs. He'd been sentenced to

863
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 4: ten years in federal prison. And Ryan, I suppose there's

864
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: potentially an argument that the sentence, and also the Chrysly

865
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: sentences are long too much.

866
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 6: I'm with I'm with them to okay ten years for that.

867
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 6: You took seventy five thousand in campaign contributions, which is

868
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 6: different than taking it in cash money, and it's exchange.

869
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 6: You made, you know, the local car dealer like a

870
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 6: fake cop. You let him be a fake cop for

871
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 6: a day, it can be dangerous, like Oklahoma. There's this

872
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 6: case in Oklahoma where they let this rich guy be

873
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 6: a fake cop and he shot and killed a guy

874
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 6: because he meant to pull his taser and accidentally pulled

875
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 6: his pistol and killed a man. So like this, this

876
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 6: is to me, it's if you want to take your

877
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 6: badge and go home with it, like happens with nine

878
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 6: year olds, fine, but like you get give him a

879
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 6: fake badge and a real gun and no training. Now

880
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 6: the community is the one that's going to pay so

881
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 6: that you can get these bribes. Yeah, but still ten

882
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 6: years is a little bit excessive.

883
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's the argument Trump's going. He keeps saying, but.

884
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 6: He's a big Trump guy, and they're like, they came

885
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 6: after me because I'm a Trump guy and.

886
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: You hurt, right, And that works so well on Donald Trump,

887
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 4: and everybody knows it works so well on Donald Trump.

888
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 4: And he said it in the Christly conversation with Savannah

889
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 4: said they were treated very badly. And so yeah, it's

890
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 4: what Blogoovitch got this too right. He sort of made

891
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: a turn to being pro Trump, and that's all it took.

892
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: And I don't know, Ryan, I if Trump is being

893
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 4: taken for a ride so much as he just enjoys

894
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 4: the deference and insequiousness.

895
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 6: Anybody who goes through the criminal justice system comes out

896
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 6: hating prosecutors, including Trump.

897
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 11: H Yeah, And so he feels that.

898
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 6: If I ever get convicted of anything, I'm gonna remind

899
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 6: Trump of all the nice things I said about him.

900
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 6: You have so many clips, so many good clips, I mean,

901
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 6: commit a sense of humor, a lot. H So just

902
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 6: you know, let's let's clip this one and stay it

903
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 6: for if for this is get caught stealing people's tax

904
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 6: money and buying a yacht with it, and let's just mention.

905
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: Of course, Joe Biden had an unprecedented pardon policy. He

906
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 4: pardoned family members, corrupt family members, pardoned Anthony Fauci. Absolutely

907
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 4: that all happens.

908
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 6: He pardoned changed this terrible sex criminal in Pennsylvania.

909
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 4: Preemptive pardons what And those are always favors, right, Like

910
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 4: people would say, why would you pardon that guy? It's

911
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 4: a favor to someone, right, Someone.

912
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 6: Got that in front of him, must have.

913
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, So yes, the Joe Biden was unprecedented in that

914
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 4: respect and was transactional in that respect. This is a

915
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 4: different level, obviously. This is a level of people nakedly

916
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 4: making transactional appeals to the president and him responding, when

917
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 4: do you get that sort of obsequious approach?

918
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 11: And usually they wait till presidents wait till the end

919
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 11: of their term. We're so embarrassed about this stuff.

920
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 6: That's interesting, right, He's doing it right out like Tuesday afternoon.

921
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really interesting question about what norm or

922
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 4: to what extent that sets a norm going forward, and

923
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 4: to what extent Biden's partons set a norm going forward

924
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 4: because those were quote unquote preemptive pardons of people who

925
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 4: hadn't even been convicted.

926
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 11: So Trump has learned that nothing matters.

927
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 4: But that's the era that we live in right now,

928
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 4: this last decade. We're ten years since Trump descended the

929
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 4: Golden escalator, and we're learning that we don't actually know

930
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 4: what the norms are anymore and where they will be

931
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: in the post Trump era if we ever approach such

932
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 4: a moment.

933
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 6: Up up next, we're going to talk about the energy

934
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 6: portion of Trump's massive, big, beautiful reconciliation package. Which bizarrely

935
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 6: helped China develop its energy infrastructure and will destroy ours,

936
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 6: both clean and dirty.

937
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 11: We'll see stick around for that. The House passed.

938
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 6: Reconciliation Bill, the Big Beautiful Bill, as everybody knows, takes

939
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 6: a sledgehammer to Joe Biden's Inflation Reduction Act and all

940
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 6: the clean energy tax credits in that. But something strange

941
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 6: has happened on the way through the House and over

942
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 6: to the Senate, which is that the dirty energy industry,

943
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 6: the fossil fuel industry, has realized that it takes a

944
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 6: sledgehammer to it as well. And so to talk about

945
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 6: this and to walk us through how it is and

946
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 6: why that is and what's going on is ducky Hun,

947
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 6: who is the founder of a dirty energy company trying

948
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 6: to make it as clean as possible called C Minus.

949
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 6: I say dirty energy because it's involved with fossil fuels.

950
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 6: A lot of your career has been trying to make

951
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 6: fossil fuels cleaner, trying to kind of eradicate you know,

952
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 6: fossil fuels, because everybody in the energy industry, as I

953
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 6: understand it now correct me if I'm wrong, is pretty agnostic.

954
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 6: You know about energy source like people are just like

955
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 6: how do I get the wattage? Like, how do I

956
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 6: get the electricity? What's the most reliable and the cheapest

957
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 6: way that I can you know, get you know, move

958
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 6: energy from A to B and sell it. And so

959
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 6: this the clean energy kind of dirty energy divide within

960
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 6: the industry isn't really as salient necessarily as it used

961
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 6: to be. And uh, this this bill seems to be

962
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,479
Speaker 6: smashing both of them at the same time.

963
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 11: So doucky, can you.

964
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 6: Walk us through a little bit about you know, what

965
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 6: are the what are the key elements of the IRA

966
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 6: that are that are being nuked so to speak by

967
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 6: this bill? And what will the effects be on projects

968
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 6: that are either ongoing throughout the United States or are

969
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 6: you know, planned for the coming years.

970
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 16: Well, you're right on a lot of those those points.

971
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 17: Uh So when you think of energy, I think you

972
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 17: want to take a step back and see it's more

973
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 17: of a transition than clean versus dirty or fossil. So

974
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 17: the transition is is really what is uh kind of

975
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 17: getting lost in this in this new bill. A lot

976
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 17: of the fossil fossil energy guys, which you know, obviously

977
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 17: is natural gas and coal mainly obviously oil in there

978
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 17: as well. They were investing a lot of time and

979
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 17: resources to processes that would clean up their existing facilities,

980
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 17: existing fuel sources, like carbon capture, they were transitioning to hydrogen,

981
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 17: investing a lot of money there.

982
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 16: So those technologies were packaging.

983
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 17: The i RA as transitions to to clean existing fuel

984
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 17: sources and introduced new ones that fossil you know, legacy

985
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 17: fossil guys could could participate in. Obviously the other end

986
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 17: of the spectrum or the solar battery when guys, those

987
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 17: guys were definitely a lot more advanced in this transition.

988
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 17: So I don't think it's it's really a competition. I

989
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 17: think it's more of this transition that is getting I

990
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 17: think it could be on the you know, on the

991
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 17: chopping block here. I'm just unsure where who wins really,

992
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 17: who wins in this whenever we're cutting these these incentive programs,

993
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 17: because just like solar was, you know, twenty twenty five

994
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 17: years ago, we advanced a lot of those technologies, but

995
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 17: production went to.

996
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 16: China, and.

997
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 17: Unfortunately, it looks like we might have to do the

998
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 17: same here because they've invested in a lot of these

999
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 17: technologies in parallel with the United States.

1000
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 16: But a lot of the a lot.

1001
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 17: Of production was slated to come to the United States

1002
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 17: for these projects because of the IRA And unfortunately, I

1003
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 17: think if we don't kind of nip this where in

1004
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 17: the Senate, a lot of these projects might end up

1005
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 17: going back to China or Europe.

1006
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you're talking about.

1007
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 11: Fossil fuel projects, right and so, and that's right.

1008
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 6: And if you can put up F one here, this

1009
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 6: is the kind of the utility industry complaining that they're

1010
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 6: talking about clean energy. But if you read deeper into

1011
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 6: the story they're talking about, they're talking about the entire thing.

1012
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 10: You know.

1013
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 6: I've seen you make the point and I've seen others

1014
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 6: make it as well that in order to you know,

1015
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 6: we're you know, we're talking about AI and other computing.

1016
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 11: Trump says everything is computer.

1017
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 6: Requiring something like a doubling of us, you know, energy

1018
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 6: production over the you know, the very near near term.

1019
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: Uh.

1020
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 6: And I've seen you and others talk about the fact

1021
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 6: that the natural gas turbines that are needed to ramp

1022
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 6: up Let's let's say you love natural gas, you hate

1023
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 6: clean energy, You just you just want to burn natural gas.

1024
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 6: The turbines needed to produce energy from it are facing

1025
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 6: something like you you tell me something like a ninety

1026
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 6: six month backlog, like if you were ten years almost

1027
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 6: like if you wanted new ones. I mean, I think,

1028
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 6: can you walk us through, like what.

1029
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 11: Does it actually mean to produce this energy?

1030
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 16: Right?

1031
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 17: So these projects that the IRA kind of incentivized their

1032
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 17: long duration, there's a lot of engineering that goes into

1033
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 17: these projects. So even on a short scale, if you

1034
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 17: were you know, yeah, you didn't have these projects in

1035
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 17: development before.

1036
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 16: I mean, these are three to five year projects.

1037
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 17: So a lot of these have not hit the hit

1038
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 17: the ground yet.

1039
00:52:58,920 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 16: So to speak.

1040
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 17: So in the realm of natural gas, I mean it

1041
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 17: is I mean everyone's always said natural gas is a

1042
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 17: transition feel and in the near term, I believe we

1043
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 17: do have to ramp up uh natural gas with you know,

1044
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 17: a lot of you know, carbon capture if possible. I

1045
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 17: mean that that seems to be kind of left in

1046
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 17: the lurch now, uh, to to meet these energy demands.

1047
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 17: But you know, the big the big gas turbine manufacturers,

1048
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 17: ge Siemens, Mitsubishi, I mean they I think on a

1049
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 17: very conservative estimate there they're five years out from delivering uh.

1050
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 17: Even if you I mean then we're going back to

1051
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 17: kind of putting deposits down to get in the queue,

1052
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 17: essentially kind of what what we were back in the

1053
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 17: early two thousands, the last time natural gas wash was relevant.

1054
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 17: So yeah, we're going back to the you know, the

1055
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 17: five year weights, and you know, if AI does ramp

1056
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 17: up aggressively, I mean we're talking about maybe ten years backlog.

1057
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 17: So none of these are going to happen quickly. I

1058
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 17: think everyone should understand that. I mean, you know, these

1059
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:16,479
Speaker 17: big AI and data centers and crypto announcements. I think

1060
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 17: I think everyone's a little too optimistic if they're thinking,

1061
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 17: you know, one to three years, you just you just

1062
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 17: can't get these these components.

1063
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 16: I mean, gas turmans are one thing. I mean, I

1064
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 16: don't know if.

1065
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 17: You've heard about the transformer issues another another component, key

1066
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 17: component that uh, you know, the backlog has just ramped

1067
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 17: up tremendously since COVID and and doesn't look any anywhere

1068
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 17: near resolving itself.

1069
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 4: Now, I want to roll this clip F two of

1070
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 4: Elon Musk, who is going to be on CBS Sunday

1071
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 4: Morning this week, and they're revealing sort of teaser moments

1072
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 4: from that conversation and Musk sort of talks about the

1073
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 4: quote unquote big beautiful bill and the change we can

1074
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 4: go ahead and roll the clip, you know.

1075
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 18: I was like, we're disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly,

1076
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 18: which increases the bunch depsit not does decrease it, and

1077
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 18: that reminds the work that the Doge team is doing.

1078
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 4: I actually thought that when this big beautiful bill came along.

1079
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: I mean, like everything he's done on Dose gets wiped

1080
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 3: out in the first year.

1081
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 18: I think, I think a bill can be can be

1082
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 18: big or it can be beautiful, but I don't know

1083
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 18: if it could be both my postal opinion.

1084
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,479
Speaker 5: So there we have.

1085
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 4: Clean energy, domestic manufacturing slash assembly Man Elon Musk looking

1086
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 4: at the big beautiful bill with a dose of realism

1087
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 4: after he spent I guess, the last six.

1088
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 5: Months or so in Washington, DC. So I wanted to ask.

1089
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 4: I mean a lot of people on the writer are

1090
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 4: actually criticizing the bill for not going far enough on

1091
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: dismantling the IRA. That's something a lot of people want

1092
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 4: to see happen when it goes over to the Senate.

1093
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 4: But my understanding is also that some of what the

1094
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 4: bill does is meant to disentangle production from China and

1095
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 4: bring it back to the US. It sounds like the

1096
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 4: way that they're going about that, I mean it's the

1097
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 4: like foreign entity clause in the bill. It sounds like

1098
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 4: some of the way they're going about that is actually

1099
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 4: counterproductive possibly as well. Can you just kind of flush

1100
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 4: out that dynamic for us?

1101
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean it it is.

1102
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 17: It is puzzling, you know, the intent versus the reality

1103
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 17: of it. I think it's gonna be difficult to to

1104
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 17: get these projects off the ground with with those kind

1105
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 17: of last minute tweaks to that bill, especially the foreign

1106
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 17: entity because we still don't make a lot of these

1107
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 17: components in the United States. Obviously we were, we were

1108
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 17: getting there, but I don't think we would have really

1109
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 17: justified making all the smaller components maybe some of the

1110
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 17: larger components that would comprise of these projects.

1111
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 16: But yeah, it's a big hurdle.

1112
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 6: Can you can you explain that? So the foreignity of

1113
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 6: concern is basically referring to China. The bill says, correct

1114
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 6: me if I'm wrong here. The bill basically says, if

1115
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:10,720
Speaker 6: if you're getting components from China, but instment or or investment, okay,

1116
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 6: or investment from China, then you cannot get the access

1117
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 6: to the tax credits which make the project kind of

1118
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 6: pencil out in a financial way. So as somebody who

1119
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 6: involved in the industry, who how possible would it be

1120
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 6: if if you were told, okay, you want these credits,

1121
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 6: every component and all investment must come from the US.

1122
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 6: I guess you can get French investment, but you can't

1123
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 6: get Chinese investment. You can't have Chinese components, Like could

1124
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 6: you could you get a project going anytime soon?

1125
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 11: Under those circumstances, you could.

1126
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 17: Get break around, but lead times would definitely delay the

1127
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 17: project tremendously. I think another compon of the kind of

1128
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 17: last minute you know, negotiating for this bill. I think

1129
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 17: the more dangerous component is the start time. So a

1130
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 17: lot of these projects.

1131
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 11: Explain that this is a really interesting component, right.

1132
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 17: So a lot of these projects, so they didn't scrap

1133
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 17: the IRA per se, but they did put some stringent

1134
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 17: regulations like the FEOC and then the start time for

1135
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 17: a lot of these projects to qualify for the incentives

1136
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 17: or you know, sixty days from the final passage of

1137
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 17: the bill.

1138
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 16: So that's that's that's really you know, a killer right there.

1139
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 17: I mean I think that would kill ninety nine percent

1140
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 17: of the projects that are slated to come.

1141
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 6: So and you have to finish by a certain time too.

1142
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 17: Yeah, so you have to finish by twenty twenty eight.

1143
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 17: And like I said, these projects are long lead time,

1144
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 17: a lot of engineering involved.

1145
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 16: And some of these projects.

1146
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 17: Or are really relying on incentives that were finalized in January, right,

1147
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 17: So a lot of these you know, financial modeling the projections,

1148
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 17: I mean, they're still in limbo, so you're not getting

1149
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 17: to a final investment decision considering.

1150
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 16: The uncertainty essentially.

1151
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 17: So even the projects that were heavily financed by you know,

1152
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 17: let's say big oil or oil and gas or big

1153
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 17: energy companies, legacy companies, I don't see them getting getting through,

1154
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 17: especially with the sixty day start time. I mean, we're

1155
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 17: talking about a project that would normally go through engineering

1156
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 17: in two to three years and then saying you off

1157
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 17: the break ground sixty days after finalization of this bill.

1158
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 17: I think that's that's really killing the all incentives that

1159
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 17: are in the ir and to begin with.

1160
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 4: So basically, if we zoom out to the broader goal

1161
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 4: of on shoring, near shoring, friends shoring, some of these industries.

1162
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 4: The bill, I guess is from that perspective then actually

1163
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 4: kind of hurting its own goal or undermining its own

1164
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 4: goal if it is on shoring, near showing friends, showing,

1165
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 4: because maybe the ultimate goal, or the less honest goal,

1166
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: is just to hurt the industry's period, the clean energy

1167
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 4: industries period. Like what do you make of what the

1168
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 4: we were talking earlier about who benefits? Like, what is

1169
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 4: the actual end goal? Do you think based on what's

1170
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 4: in the bill?

1171
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 17: Well, I mean, that's that's the confusion I have for sure.

1172
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 17: I don't know who benefits. I think a lot of

1173
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 17: the benefits that we've already seen from the IRA have

1174
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 17: benefited a lot of the Republican states and Republican districts.

1175
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 17: I mean maybe to the tune of, you know, seventy

1176
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 17: or to eighty percent of the jobs created or going

1177
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 17: to those districts. And we're talking about hundreds of thousands

1178
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 17: of jobs here, and some of those plants that relied

1179
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 17: on those incentives may lose them and close.

1180
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 16: So I mean, it's really confusing to me who benefits.

1181
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 17: I mean, it's it's tough because obviously we're talking about

1182
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 17: a lot of new projects. In addition, to the ones

1183
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 17: that already opened. So I mean, we're talking about hundreds

1184
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 17: of thousands more jobs going to a lot of red districts.

1185
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 17: So it's it's confusing to me, what you know, who wins?

1186
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 17: I mean people, I don't know if it's a zero

1187
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 17: sum game. I mean, I think everyone can benefit from this,

1188
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 17: but I think everyone could lose too, right, So I

1189
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 17: don't think there's there's any clear winners to me.

1190
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 6: And for people who want to read more about that,

1191
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 6: we can put up F three. You can find this piece.

1192
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 6: Ducky had recommended this at Latitude Media. As you're talking,

1193
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 6: I wonder if the answer to this question of who benefits,

1194
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 6: ironically might be China. Like if if you want to

1195
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 6: develop these both clean energy projects and also projects that

1196
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 6: are making fossil fuel energy cleaner, it seems like the

1197
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 6: place that is making that possible would after this would

1198
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 6: would be China. And it seems like the bill is

1199
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 6: if you wanted to write a bill to basically stop

1200
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 6: the development and production of energy in the United States,

1201
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 6: you couldn't do much better than the way this bill

1202
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 6: is currently written.

1203
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 16: Well, that's what it seems like.

1204
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 17: I mean, like I mentioned, with the solar industry twenty

1205
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 17: years and you know, we did a lot of development

1206
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 17: in national labs and then we send all the manufacturing

1207
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 17: to China. I mean, that's it's unfortunate. But yeah, I

1208
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 17: think they're pretty happy about the prospects of this.

1209
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1210
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 6: And China doesn't even have much of a lobbying operation

1211
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 6: in the US, like basically zero, and they're getting a

1212
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 6: bill just straight up written for them. It's amazing.

1213
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 4: We'll see, We'll see, Senates.

1214
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 6: It's very confusing. Yeah.

1215
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Senate I think is gonna it's going to

1216
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 4: have some real tweaks to this part.

1217
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, because North Carolina and Doug you might know last

1218
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 6: question for you might know a little bit about this.

1219
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 4: Uh.

1220
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 6: North Carolina senators, I know are both concerned about what

1221
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 6: this doing is doing to Solark because North Carolina has

1222
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 6: become one of the kind of leading builders of solar

1223
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 6: energy and now this is going to take a sledgehammer

1224
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 6: to to that, you know. And it's an it's an

1225
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 6: industry that is that supports Republicans and and hires Republicans

1226
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 6: to work at the in it. Uh. So you've got

1227
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 6: you got North Carolina, maybe you've got some Texas which

1228
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 6: has a lot of energy production, including clean energy production.

1229
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 6: Do you have a sense Yeah, Georgia as well, did

1230
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 6: you have do you have a sense of Although I

1231
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 6: guess democrats are there are there Republicans who might have

1232
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 6: the strength to push back on this.

1233
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 17: I hope so, I mean, I know, I don't know

1234
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,439
Speaker 17: if a lot of your viewers knew. I mean, there's

1235
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 17: a there's a a letter that you know, a lot

1236
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 17: of Republicans drafted, you know, twenty some odd you know,

1237
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 17: senators and House members supporting you know, the the benefits

1238
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 17: of the IRA. Unfortunately, twenty of those House members kind

1239
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 17: of signed onto this last minute. So hopefully the senators

1240
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 17: kind of have a little more influence on this and

1241
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 17: don't have we'll have the right kind of influence essentially

1242
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 17: to support their constituents.

1243
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 5: Or we'll see them go in another direction.

1244
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 11: And just support China. What are you doing?

1245
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 5: A lot?

1246
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 4: A lot to be determined in the next month.

1247
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 6: It's incredible watch Doucky Hume, founder of energy company C Minus.

1248
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 6: Thanks for bring us up to speed on this. Appreciate it.

1249
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me all right, be well, honestly,

1250
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 6: I don't get it. What are you all doing?

1251
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 4: Look at me?

1252
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 11: This is your responsibility. You need to clean this up.

1253
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 6: It's insane. What like and his point about how we

1254
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 6: developed the solar industry in the nineties two thousands, and

1255
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 6: because it's associated with hippies or whatever, and it was manufacturing,

1256
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 6: we just shipped it off to China. And now look

1257
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 6: how that's working out. And now here we are twenty

1258
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 6: years later, like doing the exact same thing.

1259
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 4: Listen, I'm all for innovation and renewable energy sector because

1260
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 4: it gets you off the grid, gets you you know,

1261
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 4: you don't have to worry about the government controlling your

1262
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 4: energy sources.

1263
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 6: But a lot of what his company does, or his

1264
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 6: companies that he's founded over the years, they take, like

1265
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 6: I'm saying, it takes waste products, and it takes and

1266
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 6: they take fossil fuels, and they try to reduce the

1267
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 6: carbon emissions and the pollution related to it, acknowledging which

1268
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 6: the Left doesn't really like to do, acknowledging that fossil

1269
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 6: fuels are going to be here for very long time

1270
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 6: and if they are getting burned, how do we reduce

1271
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 6: the emissions and pollution from them. In the meantime, all

1272
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 6: that that entire industry being built up it's just gonna go.

1273
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 11: It's just going to go to China.

1274
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 10: I mean.

1275
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 6: On the other hand, and like he's with the transformers.

1276
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 6: If without the transformers, you don't have energy production, which

1277
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 6: you know what this AI sucks. So uh if if

1278
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 6: these goons don't have enough juice for their AI, fine

1279
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 6: good find it in the sun. So they're gonna win.

1280
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 6: You're gonna get rolling blackouts. Uh, their AI is going

1281
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 6: to get the energy.

1282
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, the IRA was grifty.

1283
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 4: I mean you had John Podesta overseeing the you know,

1284
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 4: longtime lobbyist overseeing the distributor.

1285
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 6: No, no, that Tony is the lobbyist.

1286
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 5: I mean John Podesta was a lobbyist as well, the

1287
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 5: Podesta Group.

1288
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 11: No, no, that's Tony Potesta.

1289
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 5: Back in the nineties. Yeah, but I mean.

1290
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 11: I thought he's always been in there.

1291
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 4: I think the Podesta Group was founded like late eighties,

1292
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 4: early nineties.

1293
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 6: Anyway, was John Potesta, I mean he was always Anyway.

1294
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 4: The producers literally gotten her ear just like put it

1295
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 4: up Tony dicusy lobbyst Tony Podessa is definitely a scuzzy lobbyist.

1296
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 4: But anyway, they put John Podesta in charge of distributing

1297
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 4: some of the IRA. All that is to say, we

1298
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 4: will see what happens when the bill goes to the Senate.

1299
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 4: Republicans want more cuts, but of course they also want

1300
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 4: to undermine China and near shore and reshore all of

1301
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 4: these wonderful industries, so good luck to them also while

1302
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 4: keeping Elon Musk happy and having a tiny margin in

1303
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 4: the House and actually the Senate as well. And by

1304
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 4: the way, they also think they need this to augment.

1305
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 5: The tariff policy.

1306
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 4: So best of luck to the GOP and to all

1307
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 4: of us really who will have to be dealing with

1308
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 4: the consequences.

1309
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, so dumb.

1310
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 4: So stay tuned here to Breaking Points for all of

1311
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 4: the details. Breakingpoints dot com for a premium subscription. We

1312
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 4: will be doing a Friday show this week right now.

1313
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 6: Am is coming right up to participate in that. If

1314
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,800
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