WEBVTT - Before Sunrise/Before Sunset, Nostalghia (Tarkovsky #5) 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:05.720 What kind of a show you guys. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:06.360 Putting on here today? 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:08.879 You're not interested in armed now? No, Look, we're going 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:09.399 to do this thing. 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:10.080 We're going to have a. 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:15.880 Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:17.200 and I'm Josh Larson. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:18.200 So listen, here's the deal. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:18.880 This is what we should do. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:20.200 You should get off the train with me here in 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:21.360 Vienna and come check out the town. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:22.840 What come on, it'll be fine. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.400 Thirty years ago, Jesse met Selene on the train to Vienna, 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.080 and the rest is movie history. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.159 This week, we spend a night and a day with 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.879 Ethan Hawks Jesse and Julie Delpy Selene as we revisit 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.760 both nineteen ninety five's Before Sunrise in two thousand and 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.600 fours Before Sunset. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.960 And our Andre Tarkowski marathon concludes with nineteen eighty three's Nostalgia. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:44.120 It's all ahead. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.000 You're going to miss that plane, Josh. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:47.960 I don't say that I actually have a plan to 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:49.559 catch on film spotting. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.800 Just you man. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.120 Welcome to film Spotting. It's a nice bit of coincidence 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.919 spotting this week, Josh, which we may get into more later. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.840 We're closing out our Andre Tarkovsky Marathon with Nostalgia, and 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.440 we're embarking on a little bit of a nostalgia fest 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.640 ourselves by revisiting two films from our past. Two films 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:22.880 we love Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise and Before Sunset. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.399 And Nostalgia for our film spotted Fest, which is only 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:26.160 a few months old. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.680 That's right, exactly. Back in March, we closed the first 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.920 ever film Spotting Fest with a thirtieth anniversary screening of 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.119 Before Sunrise. That was that the Music Box in Chicago, 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:37.480 and that was pretty magically. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:37.800 You're right. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.640 I'm already reminiscing about that day. On a Sunday back 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.399 in March after the movie, critic Scott Tobias from the 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.280 Next Picture Show and The Reveal joined us along with 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.920 our producer Sam Van Halgren to talk about the film. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.760 We'll share that conversation later in the show, along with 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.960 the conclusion of our Tarkovski Marathon. All that and Massacre Theater. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.840 First, we're going to mess with the chronology a bit here. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.480 I don't think link Later would mind. He has a 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:07.000 habit of doing that himself. Before Sunset it celebrated its 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.560 twentieth anniversary last year and we're revisiting it now as 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.359 part of our Pantheon project. This is our effort to 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.440 review every film in the film spotting Pantheon. And I 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.880 like how Sam is phrasing this here eccentricly assembled movie. 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.000 Hall of Fame. I think that's accurate. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.600 And sounds sounds kind of nice. Before Sunset, along with 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.600 the other two films in the Before trilogy, was added 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.640 to the Pantheon back in twenty sixteen. That's when we 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.560 did our Top five Richard Linkletter scenes. Three of your 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.919 top five, Adam were from the Before trilogy, including two 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:44.680 from Sunset. I think I had two picks from this 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.880 trilogy in my top five. Before Sunset came to theaters 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.799 in June two thousand and four, nine years after its predecessor. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.680 The movie went on to become one of the best 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.480 reviewed of the year. Unlike the first film, which was 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.040 written by Linklater and Kim Krizan, Sunset is credit I 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.920 did to stars Hawk and Delpy along with Linklater. And 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.679 although we may think of the first two films in 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.000 the trilogy as having similar structures, there's a couple walking 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.840 and talking over a single day or a night. In 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.840 the case of Before, sunrise before sunset is meant to 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.360 take place more or less in real time, basically the 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.680 ninety or so minutes before Hawk's Jesse, now married and 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.600 a successful author, is scheduled to catch his plane back 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:25.680 home from Paris. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:30.200 Let's hear a clip. Look, I'm just so happy, all 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.200 right to be with you, I am. I'm so glad 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.200 you didn't forget about me. 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.080 Okay, No, I didn't, and it pisces me off. Okay, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.360 you come here to Paris all romantic and married. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:43.440 Getting screw you. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:45.520 Don't get me wrong. 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.040 I'm not trying to get you or anything. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:48.360 I mean, all I need. 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.240 Is a married man. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:51.880 And there's been so much water under the bridge. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.240 It's not even about you anymore. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.080 It's at that time, that moment in time that is 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:55.680 forever gone. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.480 I don't know you say on that, but you didn't 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.400 even remember having sex, so sorry remembered. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:04.160 He did? 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.560 Yes, women pretend things like that. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.080 I don't know they do. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.360 Yeah, what was I supposed to say that? 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.600 I remember the wine in the park and us looking 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.120 at the stars fading away as the sun came up. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.000 We had sex twice, you. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.240 Idiot, even though I was in full on pretentious film 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.680 guy mode in nineteen ninety five, or aspired to be anyway, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.040 I couldn't claim to be a Richard linklater fan. I'm 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:31.960 not one hundred percent sure I knew his name at 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.960 that point. Growing up in Iowa, I definitely wouldn't have 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.400 seen Slacker yet. And even though I surely had seen 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.080 Days and Confused, I didn't know enough to know it 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.040 was great. I probably plucked the Before Sunrise VHS case 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.400 off the shelf of my local video store on the 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.520 strength of that sexy cover Ethan Hawk and Julie Delpy 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.800 facing each other, arms intertwined, and Hawk, who I remembered 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.279 from Explorers, loved in Dead Poet Society and may have 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.560 even enjoyed in Waterland when I was going through my 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.680 Jeremy Irons phase. Yes, dear listeners, I swooned over it. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.400 In this age of endless IP, it's hard to imagine 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.520 anymore getting over protective about movies and the sanctity of 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.480 certain characters and stories. But when I heard that Link 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.000 later planned to make a sequel, I was shaken. On 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.240 one hand, by this point, I did know enough to 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.799 know that Days and Confused was great, and yeah, Before 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.000 Sunrise was brilliant and waking life blew my mind, so 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.400 Linklater had earned the credibility to go back to that 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.279 artistic well. Also, a major part of Before Sunrise's brilliance 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.640 is how much you enjoy just hanging out with Jesse 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.919 and Selene. Of course, I'll take any opportunity to spend 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.760 more time with them. On the other hand, Before Sunrise 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:45.680 was perfect, with an ending that was perfect. Why would 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:50.039 link Later risk ruining perfection? All my fellow gen xers 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.719 who were worried about George Lucas destroying their childhoods a 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.080 few years prior, well, Linklater was possibly about to destroy 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.000 this exer's young adulthood. The filmmaker frames the dilemma pretty 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.640 well himself and before Sunset in the opening sequence, at 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.839 the bookstore, Jesse, who has written about his personal experience 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.080 with Selene, just as link Later had transformed his personal 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.280 experience with a woman he met on a train traveling 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.000 through Europe, naturally gets asked the big question, do the 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.880 two characters get back together again in six months like 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:23.279 they promised each other, to which Jesse evasively but eloquently replies, 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.240 it's a good test, right if you're a romantic or 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.839 a cynic. The implication seems clear enough. If you believe 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.000 they met again in Vienna in six months, then you're 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.960 a romantic. If you believe they didn't meet, then you're 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:39.360 a cynic. I was sure they met again in six months, 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.359 but I was also sure that I was perfectly content 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.560 to let Jesse and Selene live on forever. In my imagination, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.159 the possibility of that affair to remember future meetup was 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.440 satisfying enough, or so I thought, Josh, how did you 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.919 fare on the before test? Are you a romantic or 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.719 a cynic? And how grateful are you that Link Later 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.920 and Delpy granted us more time with these two. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.440 Here's my level of cynicism, as best as I can 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.800 recall seeing this in two thousand and four is I 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.520 was less thinking about what I wanted, but thinking about 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.360 what is link later? What is the answer link later 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.400 is going to give in this movie that I'm currently 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.840 watching that's going to be satisfying. I was too much 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.720 in my own head and maybe not lost enough in 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.200 the characters' heads, despite having loved Before Sunrise. I think 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.960 at the time I was probably, you know, folding my 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.880 arms a little bit about the sequel question you know, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.960 working at that point as as a film critic, and 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.200 also you know, just wondering why is Link Later someone 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.679 like Linklater doing this. But I do think the movie 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.320 must have won me over pretty quickly, because the lead 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.800 to my eventual review was when talk is an aphrodisiac 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.920 who wants the conversation to stop. So whatever skepticism I 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:04.880 had the movie overcame for sure. I think I still 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.280 probably did not appreciate it as much as I should 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.640 have at the time, and that's what made this revisit 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 so wonderful, and the knowledge that there's still a before Midnight, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.840 which now I want to revisit again and likely discover 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.240 that I underestimated that one, even though I liked it, 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.640 but far less than these two installments. The first two installments. Yeah, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.920 they pull off something of a miracle here, and they 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:34.960 do it so lightly, so seemingly effortlessly. Yet when you 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.640 watch this conversation unfolding over these ninety minutes closely, you 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:44.560 realize how intricate and strategic it is, and how it 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:49.320 shifts and ebbs and flows in ways that I imagine 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.200 improvisation was involved. But I think there had to be 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.360 long discussions among the three of them about the superstructure 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.200 and the journey that they want these characters to go 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.800 on over the course of before sunset, and then just 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.920 laying out how they're going to shift from one step 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.720 to the other, and then maybe allowing the improvisation to 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.240 get them there. But this is something of a miracle 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.600 in the way they make it flow so naturally, rooted 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.880 in the same characters we know so intimately, and achieve 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:27.040 something so monumental and complete and cohesive coming down to 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:28.720 this perfect ending as well. 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.760 So yeah, that was that was my. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.800 Memory of my first encounter with it, and even appreciating 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.600 it at the time, now realizing I underestimated it at 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:38.960 the time. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.800 Yeah, how about that not only pulling off the miracle 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.120 of making another masterpiece, and I think it is after 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.680 making one with the first film, but another perfect ending, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.560 which is what happens here. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.520 Even a better ending, maybe even a better ending. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.320 And I realized this time too, it's the exception to 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.360 the rule of sequels, which is and I'd forg this. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.440 I hadn't seen this film, I think since twenty thirteen, 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.520 that's at least the last time I logged it. That 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.720 was in preparation for before Midnight. I had forgotten that 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.400 early on in the film we see flashbacks, we see 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.800 cuts back to the first film, and that is a 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.800 dead giveaway with sequels that if they're cutting back to 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.160 footage from the first film, then you know it's a disaster. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.720 Let me tell you. After having just come out of 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.880 Final Reckoning a few days before, to be reminded that 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.400 this was an element in before Sunset, I was like, oh, 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.880 boy or boy, yeah, but so lenage to even redeem that, I. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.839 Know, link later again just proving all those conventions wrong. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.760 But it really isn't by accident. It is all in 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.000 the structure. And can I just say I love that 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.840 there's a moment and I didn't clock where it exactly happens, 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.360 but maybe it's about twenty minutes in on their walk 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.200 they have not hit I think it's still before they 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.640 finally hit the cafe that that Selene is ragging Jesse 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.040 to where they're going to sit down and talk. After 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.199 they've left the bookstore and they're talking, and finally Jesse 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.880 just stops and says, you know, this is surreal. This 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.880 is surreal that we're talking after all this time. And 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.600 I love that the movie takes that beat, because for 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.120 every one of us who have waited nine years to 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.640 see these characters get back together, Surreal's the only way 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.880 to describe it. We're feeling the same way those characters 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.400 are right to see them back together having these kinds 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:30.199 of conversations. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:35.240 Yeah, and confronting that is not just a meta element 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.559 either reverberating the audience's desires. It's also how that conversation 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.520 had to go, because this was not Jesse and Celine 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.520 until they get to the point of brutal honesty, dropping 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.800 off facads and just going at it. And this is 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.040 another thing where watching this again and I'm looking up 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:56.720 as you were talking, and I think I did revisit 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.839 it for that list as well. Last time was about 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.000 a little over ten years ago, but I had forgotten this. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.280 It starts a little shaky here for me at least, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.120 and it's a rough start maybe for any of us 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.559 who thought Jesse was a bit pretentious in Before Sunrise, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.920 because we open just on him people fawning over him 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.240 at his book signing as he waxes philosophical and I'm thinking, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.640 oh boy, this is like, this is like the worst 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:23.800 of Jesse, and we're leading. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.439 With this but it's all a setup. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.959 It's all a setup, I believe, because it's making us 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.920 realize that when Selene shows up, we see how integral 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.000 she is to who he is, and that this is 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.120 the magic of these movies. It's who they are together 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.559 that is what matters. What is what these films are about. 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.680 It's that chemical space between them. It's not about either individual. 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.559 She You know, she starts to she's nice about his 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.280 book release and everything, but also starts to call him 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.040 out on his BS, but she also appreciates the dreamer 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.000 who's behind the b right. She brings out the best 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.600 in him, he brings out the best in her. He 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.600 calls her on some of her bs. And then you see, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.080 here's the other element. The way he looks at her 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.120 gets us to fall back in love with him. So 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.920 I really think that link later is setting us up 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.680 by shoving Jesse in our face in the beginning. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:24.760 And maybe you. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.760 Know, some people are more positive on him than others, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.200 and maybe it's not an issue for them, but at 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.840 least for me, kind of setting me up for not 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.480 and then reminding me of what the magic of these 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.120 movies are about. And it's that honesty that you were 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.520 getting to Adam when they their connection reignites when they 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.880 get to the question of if either one of them 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.520 went to the meeting spot. Right, these who have never 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:51.520 been about niceties or pleasantries. It's about honesty. And yet 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.480 here's where I'm talking about the ebbs and flows and 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.640 the rhythms. So brilliant to have that moment come early 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.560 on after the pleasantries. But then brilliant also picked them 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.880 backing their way into it, right with him saying he 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.880 did show up, then confessing you know when she says 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.679 she didn't, Oh, no, he didn't either, and then admitting 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.839 he did. Think of the mini drama. 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.200 Over that to get to that truth. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.040 Because until they get to that truth, they're not Jesse 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.400 and Celine. Yet that's when they become they are. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.600 No, that's when the movie really takes off. With ever that, 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.200 let me take a few things you said, and I'm 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.560 gonna take it maybe a little bit further, because this 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.720 was the revelation for me, if you will, maybe too 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.600 strong of a word, but I'm gonna go with it 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.720 for now. I didn't rewatch this movie back in twenty 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.680 sixteen for the link later scenes list. I did in 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:43.920 twenty thirteen again for midnight, And at that time I 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.080 chalked up the conceit of the film to Jesse stalling. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.560 You know, I wrote on letterbox in twenty thirteen, I 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.160 said it in twenty sixteen. During that top five, is 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.600 it me or are Jesse's repeated attempts to delay his 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.360 trip to the airport the equivalent of the knights gamesmanship 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.480 in the seventh Seal, a condemned man's maneuvers to stave 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.280 off death by prolonging the sublime. He just keeps saying, right, oh, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.520 fifteen more minutes now, I'll just take you here. We'll 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.680 just go here. He's just trying to keep it going. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.200 And something struck me this time, Josh. What clued me 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.600 in was the fact that early on there's multiple references 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.560 to time and not being late and you got to 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.480 catch your plane, all before they've even kind of stepped 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.920 out of the bookstore. And she knows this, and yet 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.680 they're talking about where they're going to go for coffee, 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.640 and she says, I've got a spot and I don't 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:36.640 know if she says it's nearby, but she says, you know, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.160 I've got a spot I want to take you to. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.920 And they start walking, and they must walk for a 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.320 half an hour, right, And so that of course could 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.600 be link later and Hawk and Dealthy being a little 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.040 bit cheeky, and I wouldn't put that past them, but 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.760 I think it does connect to what was the revelation 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:59.400 for me, and what I think might tie to what 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.640 the answer was in some way as you were getting 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.200 at for link later, what made it interesting? What made 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.880 it interesting for him to collaborate specifically with Hawk and 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:14.360 with Delpy on and before anyone listening to this thinks, really, Adam, 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.520 this is a revelation. You didn't pick up on this before, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.240 I'll just say I think this may have been my 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.960 third viewing of the film. Only the second time was 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.240 back in twenty thirteen, and in twenty thirteen, I wasn't 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.480 watching it to discuss it. I was just prepping for 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.560 before midnight. I was just refreshing myself. Also film spotting 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.760 Pa Sophie Kempenar already chastised me. I got up the 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.800 next morning all eager to share with her what I 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.360 learned watching the film again, because she loves these films 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.560 and actually had just been in Paris and followed all 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.160 these steps took all of the picture she could from 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.240 all of the places they go to. And here was 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.360 her response, I'm a better film critic than you. This 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.320 is before sinset one oh one. Wow, harsh kids say 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.080 the regardest things. Okay, there is a major structural difference, 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.240 and it's not just the temporal aspect, the real time 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.880 or more real time approach, and I think it does 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.040 change the overall experience of the two movies. And it 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.719 goes back to what you're saying in terms of the 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.640 reversal of the setup a little bit. Jesse really does 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.840 drive the first movie. Yes, of course the first movie 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.720 is great because of their honesty and that Delpy doesn't 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.119 feel like she's playing second fiddle. But Jesse is the 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.720 one who gets her off the train, who makes the 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:33.040 first move, who does initiate most of the conversations and 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.639 what happens here. Selene drives the second one. She drives 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.480 this movie. She picks him up at the bookstore. She 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.159 essentially gets him to leave the train. Otherwise he's just 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.680 getting in the car and going to the airport. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:46.920 Right. 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.879 She gets him to wander around Paris and Josh, she 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.760 initiates almost all of the conversations. He is a responder 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.080 largely in this movie. So, especially if you were someone 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.560 who thought he was a little pretentious in the first film, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.879 you probably do prefer this movie. And he is. I 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.160 had this same thing in my notes. Jesse Ethan Hawk 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.399 is largely relegated, and I don't think this is a 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.840 bad thing at all. I like the different dynamic between 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.040 the two films. He is largely relegated to being a 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.480 watcher in this movie, and that is fine because we 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.920 got plenty of his pontificating in the first movie. Delpy 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:28.199 is also so good and so incisive, and he is 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.360 such a good listener. Also, the way he watches her 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.600 is romantic as hell, which is how the movie ends, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.640 of course too, in that very sexy romantic exchange between them, 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.800 where except for one word or two words, that two 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.680 word phrase that he has, otherwise he's just looking at her. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.919 Yeah, And there's there's a structural reason for that, for 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.199 that shift, but there's also a psychological emotional one, you know, 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.160 because he's vulnerable here by admitting that he went back 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.280 and that he's the romantic. He can try to play 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.520 it off and she can try to play it off too, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.520 But it has revealed that he opened himself up more 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.159 than she did. Bottom line, whatever the circumstances were, her 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.720 grandmother's death and that, you know, it's it's all understandable. 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.320 This isn't sane. One of them made the right decision, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.639 one of them made the bad decision, but he is 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.720 now the more vulnerable one because of how things played out. 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.159 And I think that's part of what's going into the 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.639 dynamic as well. You know, as you were talking about, 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.439 you know, time and the considerations of time, which is 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.320 a huge linkinator thing, but just how it plays out 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.400 in this I just want to throw in also about 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.280 the ending the great Nina Simone song, it's actually a cover. 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.240 She's you know, singing a jazz standard that's been on 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:41.680 stage and in movies before. 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.200 She covered it. Just in Time is the name of that. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.439 Stuff, of course, and I looked up the lyrics just 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:48.400 out of curiosity. 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:49.680 Just in time. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.560 You found me, just in time before you came. My 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:53.960 time was running low. 0:19:54.480 --> 0:20:04.880 Before you came, I was lost. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.080 So the first the first two stanzas time mentioned three times, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.080 it's you know, clearly probably why it was chosen. It's 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:17.480 also musically perfect for the moment and Delpi's performance in 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.120 that moment. Since you touched our performance, let's go there, 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.320 and I'm going to start at the ending because I'm 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.240 here now. It's not only that it's seductive. But let's 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.240 go back a little earlier, a few moments earlier, where 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.159 she's playing her waltz. I think she calls it this 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:33.280 waltz for him. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.320 It's that's how great is that? 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:36.080 Yeah? 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.639 And she's on the guitar, and you know, I think 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.040 what I love about that little bit is that you 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.080 see she's doing it for him, And there are moments 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:46.760 where she'll look up at him and kind of self 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:47.960 deprecatingly laugh. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:50.200 But there's also nice. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.760 Little moments in the performance where she gets lost in 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.280 the music. You can tell like she's no longer thinking 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.080 about him in these two seconds. She's thinking about how 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.000 much she's enjoying doing this musical performance, and what does 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.480 that point to. She's an artist too. This is related 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.679 to the kind of shifts in the dynamic from the 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.640 first film to this one. Listening to this again, maybe 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.520 an obvious observation, we'll see if Sophia has something mean 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.040 to say to me, But listening to her lyrics, you 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.080 realize this waltz is her version of Jesse's book. He's 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.640 written this book all about their relationship. She has been 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.719 true to her nature, quietly alone in her apartment writing 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.560 a song she will probably never perform to anyone else 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:40.760 about her experience of their relationship because it is about 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.240 someone who she, you know, basically missed out on or 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.120 there was a fleeting moment, and that's that's her version 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.040 of the book. So Delpy is wonderful in so many 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.919 different registers in that final sequence, and then she just 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.760 gets some great saline moments throughout because she gets, you know, 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.760 more of the dialogue here in a sense I love 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.199 one of my favorites might be I'm not getting angry, 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:05.119 I'm not getting angry. Spitthead him twice, which is, you know, 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:06.960 just kind of sums. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.040 Her character up in so many ways. 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:12.000 But she's she's wonderful, He's great, She's wonderful. Together, there's 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:12.879 something even better. 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.919 Let me sing you I owes. 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:23.000 Out of nowhere, out of my thoughts. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.560 Let me sing you O oldes. 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.840 About this one night stand. 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.359 Well, for me, that night. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.320 Everything I always drammed. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:42.879 On in line. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.320 What I love about that is I did register the 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.440 bit of performance that it is. But I didn't make 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.560 the connection back to the fact that he wrote a book, 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.240 and this is sort of her version of that. And 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.199 the reason that I registered the act of performance is 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.040 I looked at my top five link later scenes. Sam 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.680 had referenced it in our script notes, and so I figured, well, man, 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.080 now that I've rewatched the movie, did I make the 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.800 right choices? And we'll get to One of my choices 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.840 was probably here in a little bit. My number two 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.040 choice was that ending and baby, are you going to 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.800 miss That plane? Which followed my number three choice, which 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:26.600 was from before Sunrise where they do that whole fake 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.600 phone call thing with each other. It's all about acting 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.320 and performance where they finally get to say what they 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.320 really are thinking about each other, but they get to 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.040 do it under the guise of performance because they are 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:40.320 sort of playing a role even though they really are 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.640 being themselves. So there is that connection or that link 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:49.719 between the artifice and what they're really exposing about themselves 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.560 in the two films. I had never fully noticed this before, Josh, 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.160 and it might be a really minor thing, but that 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.840 last line here, I am again I think being a romantic, 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.399 and I realized that maybe I need to temper it 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.600 again and maybe not go full blown cynic, but just 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.320 temper the romanticism a little bit. I always took that 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.320 last line, baby, you're going to miss that plane as 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:20.320 full on I'm not letting you go. You know you're 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.760 not leaving. We both know we're meant to be together, 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:28.679 and this is the romance of our lifetimes and our dreams, 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.560 and we finally found each other again after nine years. 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:36.200 Is in everything great? And I realized with Delpy's line 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:39.600 delivery that you at least have to keep open the 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:44.199 interpretation that it's just a statement of fact that at 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.199 this point, baby, you're going to miss that plane, that 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.240 he is almost certainly going to miss that plane, and 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:55.000 the door, the door for him leaving is at some 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.720 point is still open literally and metaphorically. And I love 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.040 that there is that possibility dual meaning. 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:07.280 Well, there's she has a level of defense before just 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:09.360 coming out and saying it that you're going to miss 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:11.160 that plane. I want you here, we want we should 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:14.280 be together. Because she delivers that line as part of 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:17.520 her Nina Simone impersonation, she's not delivering it as Selene. 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:18.160 That's right. 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:23.879 Conversation that is allowing them to be honest, but in 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.760 the guise of performance. I think I read this similarly. 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.760 She's being honest, she wants them to miss that plane, 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:34.720 she wants them to stay romantically, but she's still buffering 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.840 it with performance. There's just a little bit of safety there. 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:42.440 She's you know again, how she's maybe distinct from Jesse. 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.480 She's not allowing herself to be as vulnerable as she 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:49.560 could by delivering the statement in that way. 0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:52.679 M hm, I love too. This is another thing I 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:56.919 never really paid attention to. The shot and the scene 0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.320 right before they arrive, right before they get a to 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:04.439 the apartment, the deliberation, the care that link later takes 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.040 that they take. The performers as they walk up the stairs, 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:13.000 that spiral staircase seems to take forever, and there is 0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:16.520 a sense of anticipation. There is a sense of anxiety 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:19.679 too though, because I think they both they both know 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.960 that they don't know what they're about to get themselves into. 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:27.000 We don't know, and they are not aware fully of 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:30.800 where this could take them. But I think they fundamentally 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:33.960 get that once they cross sort of a threshold, that 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:37.679 threshold being the door into her apartment, who knows where 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:40.440 this could lead? But it's a place from which they 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.600 maybe can never fully come back from. And I just 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.200 the way you watch Hawk with his sort of wide 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:48.520 eyed he almost looks like a kid, but there's also 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:51.600 the kid on Christmas morning, but also a little bit 0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:54.360 afraid of what he's getting into. You see it all, 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:56.800 and it's just a single steady cam shot that follows 0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:58.360 them up the stairs. It's really beautiful. 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.520 It's to me a direct callback to one of my 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:05.440 favorite link later scenes from before Sunrise, the listening booth, 0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:10.359 because what it is built upon are them taking turns 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:12.520 looking at each other when the other one is not 0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.639 and looking away, and each note hits what you're describing, 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:20.879 the hesitancy and the excitement. There are smiles and then 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:24.439 there are smiles that suddenly fade. They do catch eyes, 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:27.439 but not the entire time. They're not locked. And that 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.800 exact back and forth is what happens in the Listening 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.680 Booth in a very similar situation. It's where they're considering 0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:36.879 how serious is this? In that listening booth, they're asking 0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:39.240 themselves the same question in this staircase. And there are 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.919 a couple other callbacks, or at least one other couple 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:46.159 instances of a particular callback. I know we've talked about 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:50.359 the touching, yes, or almost touching. I want to go 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.360 Leen's hair in before sunrise, we talked about, you know 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.439 how this is possibly stolen when we sense watched and 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:01.359 discussed Agnes Vardis Clay from five to seven and Clo 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:04.800 and Antoine that happens with them. I think it's on you. No, 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:08.879 it's on the tram here and before sunrise where Jesse 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:11.960 tentatively reaches out for Selene's hair and then takes his 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:14.479 hand away. I love the moment where they're walking up 0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:17.440 some stairs and these leaves are falling around them. It's 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.240 kind of like an outdoor staircase, and he reaches out. 0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:22.600 I rewounded a couple times, and I almost wonder if 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:26.200 it's improvised, because he reaches out and it looks like 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:28.760 a leaf maybe is falling behind her head, and you 0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.040 can't tell if he knocks it away or grabs it 0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.359 or just pulls his hand back. But then she does it, 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:37.080 so now it becomes here. We're back to the dynamic 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:40.360 flipping in the car. Near the end, she reaches out 0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:43.640 to just touch his head but stops. So just a 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:47.360 lovely callback to one of this series's loveliest moments. 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.960 Yes, and that really stood out to me this time. 0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:53.320 That was my number five. I referenced it earlier. My 0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:56.560 number five was the car scene link later scene. I 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:58.880 was fine until I read your effing book. And what's 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:01.760 so great about that scene is partly that that's where 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.800 it really does get real. They're being honest with each 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:07.960 other in different ways. It builds throughout, but it builds 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:11.560 to this scene where they both get brutally honest with 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:14.680 each other, where the emotions come out. Remember, she at 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.240 one point really wants to get out of the car. 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:21.040 He has to almost restrain her from getting out of 0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:21.800 the car. Right. 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.040 I think it's where she's her most vulnerable. It's why 0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:26.480 it gets so real is now she has put herself 0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:28.680 in the same position he was when he admitted he 0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:29.760 came back and tried to. 0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:34.160 Be Yeah, and at one point, I think earlier in 0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:38.320 that scene, he almost touches her to try to comfort her. 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:41.120 It's not quite the gesture that she's going to make, 0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:43.920 and it's not quite the gesture he makes that everyone 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:49.840 remembers from before Sunrise. But then after he finally exposes 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:54.880 his vulnerability and reveals how rough his life is at 0:29:54.880 --> 0:30:01.160 the moment. That's when she reciprocates, reciprocates the uster from 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:04.960 across almost a decade now and across movies to before 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:09.480 Sunrise and Josh, what stands out about that is that 0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:13.400 it's not just link Later being clever and going well, 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.080 Jesse did it in the first movie, So Selene's gonna 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:20.040 do it here. Of course she's the one who's doing 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:24.160 it here. She's the one who is driving the entire film. 0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.880 She's the more active, dominant presence. It makes sense that 0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.479 she would be the one who would almost comfort him 0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:34.840 in that moment. But there's more. Remember his line earlier 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:39.280 in the film, and I'll just say this too. There 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:43.240 is something I had also kind of put in the 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:45.480 back of my brain about this film, thinking about it 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:48.520 as purely romantic, even though knowing that there were moments 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:52.600 of brutal honesty. There is a certain melancholy and bittersweetness 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.120 that they bring up over and over again about the 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.240 nine years they lost. I didn't really latch onto that, 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:02.280 but that is real this why didn't we do this? 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:07.480 And that regret those nine years being gone? And Hawk says, 0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:11.000 not too long before the scene in the car, if 0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:13.800 somebody would touch me, I would dissolve into molecules. That 0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:19.360 sign that then raises the stakes when she almost touches him. Right, 0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:22.440 it's not just that that it's reversed and that she's 0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:24.520 the one. It makes sense would do that as the 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:27.480 dominant presence. But what if she does touch him there. 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:29.560 Well, they have and they have that hug, and she 0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:32.360 asks him, doesn't she are you dissolving her something along? 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.320 She calls back to it. She does. I wanted to 0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:36.920 ask you this or bring it up, and I'll throw 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:38.880 it out to the listeners too, because I just ran 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:41.240 out of time at the last minute, and I guess 0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:42.880 it's kind of silly to bring up something that I 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:48.720 could just answer myself. But doesn't before Sunrise end with 0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:54.480 kind of a lovely little montage of the different locations. 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:58.240 Visiting the travel Yeah, so here's another reversal. 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:06.280 Doesn't before on set actually begin with hitting the spots 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:12.080 that they go to. It's like it's foreshadowing. It's setting 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:15.400 you up rather than looking back, which is lovely. And 0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:18.240 what clued me into that was I saw that they 0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:21.040 go to the cafe. I saw the sign of the cafe, 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:23.920 and I started to realize oh, some of these spots 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.320 are familiar, and of course those are the spots they 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.680 end up going to. So something about the camera they're 0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:32.800 telling us ahead of time link later cluing us in 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:36.240 ahead of time, as if this stuff maybe was almost 0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:38.880 faded in some way and laid out before us. Just 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.320 seems so perfect, especially with all the conversations they're having 0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:45.560 about time and everything happening sort of simultaneously. 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:47.880 Yeah, a nice touch and also a nice counter to 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:50.880 how this movie ends, which is then a fade to 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:56.160 black as action is still taking place, but it now 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:57.080 becomes private. 0:32:57.320 --> 0:32:57.560 You know. 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:01.000 It's like we we need to leave them to be 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.280 together now, and this movie needs. 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.520 To end another nice little flourish And this is what 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:12.000 all clothes on that bookstore moment when they ask him 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.720 a question about what he's working on next, and Jesse 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.680 goes off on this thing he'd always had wanted to write, 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:23.640 and he's waxing about how time is a lie and yeah, 0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:27.200 and the pop song, the pop song. Everything's happening within 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:30.760 that moment somehow. But Josh, it really is a beautiful 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.160 thing that I never fully hear again put together that 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:39.560 he's narrating this story and what he's saying, is all 0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:42.480 his life is just folding into itself, and it's obvious 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:44.400 to him that time is a lie, that it's all 0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:47.200 happening all the time, and inside every moment is another moment, 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:50.840 all happening simultaneously. And at that moment, he's saying that 0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:55.240 is when he sees her, And so he's having this 0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:57.400 moment where he's thinking about a book that he might 0:33:57.440 --> 0:33:59.600 write at some point, but it's also a book that 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:03.640 he's thought about many times throughout his life. He's seeing her, 0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:08.319 which is happening in the present, but then he's probably 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:12.000 potentially thinking about, who knows, a future, a future with 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.120 her that might even just be the next twenty minutes 0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:21.160 of them reuniting. But then he's thinking about the night 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.239 they had nine years ago, and we always thinking about 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:25.839 that because of course he is. But also Link later 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:29.200 shows us those memories in his head. All of it's 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.240 happening simultaneously, time collapsing in that moment. 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.800 Yeah, and I like how she's you know, she's almost 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:39.680 a vision there standing there where you do, which I 0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:41.239 think almost He does a little double take. 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:42.520 Is she really there? 0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:46.759 Is this really like she's somehow transported through time? To 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.480 be there, even though it's completely logical that she is. 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.000 I said, I was going to close there. But two 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:53.360 other just really quick things. 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:59.919 At the beginning of Before Sunrise, they have that Mary 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.680 couple that gets into a fight with each other, and 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:07.120 then here you have Ethan Hawke saying that line about 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.600 the couple being divorced at fifty two. And it's just 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:15.279 interesting to think about those two encounters that exchange at 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:18.600 the beginning of Sunrise and that line here in Sunset 0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:23.360 as we look forward to what may happen in Before Midnight. 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:27.759 The other thing that is a totally random aside, but 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:29.799 it just kind of strikes me as hilarious. And I've 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:33.240 mentioned this one time on the show before. You may remember, Josh, 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:40.960 that I discovered pretty randomly actually that back in twenty 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:45.360 seventeen or something, PBS did a documentary about Richard Linklater 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:49.239 looking at his career up to that point, and I 0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:53.160 found out that, unbeknownst to me, they used audio from 0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:55.799 the early days of sinecast that you can hear my 0:35:55.960 --> 0:36:00.279 voice in Sam's voice in this documentary. They don't ferent 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:02.879 cynecastory thing. It's just part of a montage. But Sam 0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:05.359 has a couple lines. I have one line, and we're 0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:10.800 just dogging link Later, right, So I'm getting ready to 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:14.000 watch before Sunset, and of course I'm doing what most 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:15.719 of us do. Now, I'm about to bring it up 0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:19.000 on some VOD platform and then I go, wait a second, 0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:22.040 I have the Before Trilogy on Criterion. I should put 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.279 the disc in. I watch it, and then I think, well, 0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:27.080 I've got the Criterion disc. I wonder what the bonus 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:31.360 features are. I go to the supplements. The first supplement 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:34.719 is this PBS documentary. Oh no, And I go, wait 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:37.000 a second, are you kidding me? Is this no? Is 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:40.680 this the thing? And I start fast forwarding through it, 0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:44.120 and there it is. At the seventy one minute mark, 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:47.120 they're at the point where they're they're doing this montage, 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:51.200 this really quick montage talking about how link Later was 0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:52.839 at this point in his career where he was kind 0:36:52.840 --> 0:36:58.000 of unbankable. He'd had some movies that weren't making money 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.800 and critics weren't big on them, like Bad News Bears 0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:04.000 and Fast Food Nation. Though ironically I liked Fast Food Nation. 0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:07.800 I think Sam did too. And there it is. I'm 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:13.840 finally on a Criterion collection disc. I'm featured not so featured. 0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:15.719 But you know what I mean. I'm included in a 0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.880 criterion collection disc of one of my all time favorite films, 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:23.239 and it's me insulting the filmmaker because I'm tearing down 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:29.480 the bad news bears. That not really fair, but there 0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:33.720 it is to hot then Before Sunset is currently available 0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.080 VOD on most platforms and in that shrink wrap Criterion 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:39.879 collection edition of the Before trilogy you have in case 0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:40.680 of emergency. 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:42.840 Listening is the number one thing you can do to 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:46.000 support an independently produced show like film Spotting. There are 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:47.680 a couple more things you can do. You can take 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:49.760 a minute to give us a rating or a review 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:53.080 on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Doesn't matter if you're a 0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:55.640 first time listener or have been listening for twenty years. 0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:59.040 Every new review helps us reach new listeners. Another way 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:02.800 to support us the Film Spotting Family. At film spottingfamily 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:06.120 dot com, we want to thank family member Susie in 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:06.760 Saint Paul. 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:09.920 Susie writes she's been listening for years. Her favorite review 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:13.880 or segment Top five movies with beaches or did I 0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:17.719 Dream That Not a Dream? Josh Episode eight thirty four, 0:38:18.239 --> 0:38:21.920 Top five beach scenes inspired by m Knight Shamlan's Old, 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.200 which it says we did not review, but I don't 0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:27.759 remember doing that Top five. I feel like you talked 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:29.759 about Old and maybe maybe you had a guest. 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:30.880 There might have been a guest. 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.239 Yes, I know I've reviewed it, and I think I've 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:35.200 talked about it on the show. 0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:38.080 A review we got wrong. You didn't get it wrong. 0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:41.680 But watch Josh O'Connor in God's Own Country and you 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:42.480 will be enthralled. 0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:44.640 We believe we do. Can we just do a Josh 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.960 O'Connor Mini mariyth. I feel like there's a handful we 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:49.360 need to catch up with both of us. 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:52.040 There are listeners around the world right now. Fist pumping, 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:55.680 I hate you said that. A favorite that she revisited recently, 0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:59.080 Twelve Angry Men, a random film she loves, Scorsese's After 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.400 Hours movie she credits with becoming a sinophile. I think 0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:04.520 this is one for a lot of people out there. 0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:08.320 Cinema Paradiso, and a book about movies that she loves, 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:12.520 Get Happy, The Life of Judy Garland. Thank you, Susie 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:14.080 for being part of the family and for all those 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.440 years of listening. In addition to keeping us doing what 0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:18.680 we're doing. Your support comes with perks. You get to 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:21.520 listen early in ad free, you get our weekly newsletter, 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.279 you get exclusive opportunities like being part of the Film 0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:27.280 Spotting Family discord, and you get access to our monthly 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:29.920 bonus shows. We did just drop in the feed our 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:34.400 quarterly Film Spotting Advisory Board meeting and coming very soon 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:39.400 the May bonus show that we just recorded our draft 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:45.000 with Madness Bracket contest winner Ricky Kendall, directors who are 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:47.440 no longer with us, which was a blast. 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:48.120 A lot of fun. 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:51.759 I think we mostly came away happy everyone, all of us. 0:39:51.920 --> 0:39:52.959 I feel like a. 0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:54.920 Recent draft went that way too. We've got to pick 0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:57.759 a more contentious topic for our next drive, maybe so 0:39:57.800 --> 0:39:58.799 we get some anger going. 0:39:59.200 --> 0:40:01.280 You can learn more about joining the Film Spotting Family 0:40:01.360 --> 0:40:04.560 at Filmspotting Family dot com. 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:10.320 Our lives are the sum of our choices. This is 0:40:10.360 --> 0:40:13.520 we're calling your destiny. 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:20.440 I have no regret ansession you. That's from the trailer 0:40:20.520 --> 0:40:24.320 for Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning, which comes to theaters 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:27.120 this weekend. We do plan to have a review of 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:29.920 that on next week's show, but not with you, Josh, 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:32.920 because you will be off in Japan with your lovely 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:36.800 bride of how many years at this point are you 0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:37.399 here to share? 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:40.680 I mean it long enough that it sounds very strange 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:42.239 for you to say bride, But yes, I don't. 0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:43.960 That's why I asked you to clarify. 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:47.160 Debbie and I have been married for thirty years. So 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:52.760 we're doing it big and spending about two weeks in Japan. Really, Actually, 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:54.440 the truth is I was not allowed to be on 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:57.480 this show because I really strongly disliked the Final Reckoning. 0:40:57.719 --> 0:40:59.560 I was going to say, you have a reckoning with 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:02.360 this installment of the Mission Impossible franchise. 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:05.440 I hope, I hope. You know it seems mixed. 0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:08.160 So I'm hoping either you or Michael do go for 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.080 it and have a good debate about it, because I 0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:12.759 know there are big fans of the series that this 0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:14.200 one did still work for. 0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:17.040 We will see. My guest host will be Michael Phillips 0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:20.040 from the Chicago Tribune. Along with a review of The 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.920 Final Reckoning, we will share our top five movie stunts. 0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.400 That's a tie in with the Mi films, of course, 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.320 but also with the recent ish announcement that the Oscars 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:31.759 will be including a best Stunt category starting with the 0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:35.839 twenty twenty eight ceremony. Here's where I'm at, Josh, right now. 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:40.080 I recently posted in the film Spotting discord what is 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:44.000 a movie stunt? What qualifies learn? Are the parameters? 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:44.719 Oh man? 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:46.080 Are their technicalities? 0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:47.920 You're lost in the weeds already. 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:49.920 I'm already lost in the weeds. 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:50.480 You know. 0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:54.879 Does it have to be a human who's involved? Are 0:41:54.920 --> 0:41:57.440 we allowed to think of them as stunt sequences? Or 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:01.200 is it a single event? It's tough. 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:02.840 You're gonna have to get back to me on that, 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.080 or I'll just listen on my flight back. 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:06.080 Yeah. 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.920 Also, next week, results from the current Film Spotting poll. 0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.000 We're asking you to choose the single greatest actor or 0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:16.919 actress from the last twenty five years currently in the lead. 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:20.799 Apparently people were swayed by my choice the number one 0:42:20.920 --> 0:42:24.520 overall pick from our draft of the actors of the Century. 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:27.640 You can vote in that poll and leave a comment 0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:29.960 at film spotting dot net, and if you would like 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.920 to check out our schedule of future shows, visit filmspotting 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:36.240 dot net slash episodes. Josh, you're out for two weeks. 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:38.759 You're also going to have a meetup with a good 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.399 group of film Spotting listeners in Japan, which will set 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:46.080 the record for the farthest flung film spotting meetup congract. 0:42:46.160 --> 0:42:48.839 Wait, yeah, it's gonna be in Tokyo and we have 0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:51.520 I thought, what are the chances do we have anyone there? 0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:54.400 At least ten folks have signed up to join us, 0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:57.520 So yeah, we'll definitely be reporting back on that or 0:42:57.600 --> 0:42:59.480 follow us both on Instagram and I'll be sure to 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:00.800 put up some pictures. 0:43:00.960 --> 0:43:03.040 If you go to film Spotting dot Net slash episodes, 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:05.880 you'll see that after Michael, Aisha Harris is going to 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:09.080 join the show really fun show plan with her Clueless 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:11.880 for its thirtieth anniversary, and our top five movie quotes. 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:15.880 Movie quotes in our lexicon like the phrases that we 0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.719 actually use or have used regularly in our lives. So 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:22.600 it might be a lot of inside jokes and we'll 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.000 just look at each other with blank faces like we 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:26.200 don't know what you're referencing. 0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:28.600 We'll see your family's and close friends will get a 0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:30.040 kick out of it, so that's all that matters. 0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:34.080 That's exactly right. Again, that's Film Spotting dot Net Slash Episodes. 0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:36.919 Quick note about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:40.399 looking at cinemas present via its past. It is part 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:44.760 two of their Less than Hero pairings. So they're discussing 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:47.759 the latest MCU installment, which is getting been getting pretty 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:52.799 good reviews Thunderbolts. Previously they discussed nineteen ninety nine's Mystery Men, 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:55.680 so they'll really do some of the compared and contrasting 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:59.360 on this new latest episode. You can find those every 0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:03.520 Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Time now for Massacre Theater, 0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:05.839 where we perform a scene and you get a chance 0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:09.840 to win a film spotting prize. Last time we massacred. 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.360 This scene, I believe the most likely outcome will be 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:15.200 our collective demise, not if we strictly follow the rules 0:44:15.200 --> 0:44:15.760 of time travel. 0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:19.520 It means no talking to our past selves, no betting 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:20.400 on sporting events. 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.520 I'm gonna stop you right there, Scott. 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:25.919 Are you seriously telling me that your plan to save 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:27.560 the universe is based on. 0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:31.919 Back to the future? No good. 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:34.440 You have me worried there, because I'd be worship That's not. 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:38.040 How quantum physics works, Tony. 0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:39.640 We have to take a stand. 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:44.759 We did stand, and yet here we are. I know 0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:47.040 you got a lot on the line, got a wife, 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:50.759 a daughter, but I lost someone very important to me, 0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:55.200 A lot of people did, and now now we have 0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:57.799 a chance to bring her back, to bring everyone back. 0:44:57.840 --> 0:44:59.480 And you're telling me that you won't need this, right. 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:03.040 Scot, I will speaking of the MCU that was Robert 0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:05.719 Downey Junior and Paul Rudd, as well as a few 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:08.439 others who we didn't perform. The scene comes from twenty 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:13.200 nineteen's Avengers Endgame, written by Stephen mcpheeley and Christopher Marcus, 0:45:13.200 --> 0:45:15.400 directed by Anthony and Joe Russo. 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:18.040 That massacre was part of our Top twenty five Films 0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:20.640 of the Century show a couple of weeks back. Endgame 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:22.880 did not make either of our lists. In fact, not 0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:26.319 a single MCU film made our list. Josh, so, why 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:28.920 that scene? Well, of course, listeners have answers. 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:33.080 Here's Dylan dom in Blair, Nebraska, the highest grossing movie 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:35.239 of the century, paired with the best. 0:45:35.200 --> 0:45:38.600 Robert Gibbons in Kaysville, Utah. Has a good answer. The 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:41.319 connections are one, it is the top grossing or one 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:43.440 of the top grossing movies in the last twenty five years, 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:45.919 which ties into your best of lists. Yeah, And two 0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:48.000 you found a way to bring back the movies that 0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:51.120 were destroyed in film spotting Madness, just like the Avengers 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.480 brought back the people snapped by Thanos. 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:57.360 Indeed, here's Addison Alley from Salt Lake City, Utah time heist. 0:45:57.920 --> 0:46:01.200 I am expecting a brimming infinity go let of answers 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:04.040 for this Avengers Endgame scene, a movie that was actually 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:06.880 so good for its time that it retroactively made people 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:10.320 believe the MCU had been nothing but masterpieces before that point, 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:14.520 and prospectively mediocre and terrible. The charm of scene massive 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:17.160 Superhero team ups has since faded, But g boy, howdy 0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:18.800 did this work in twenty nineteen? 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:22.359 And here's Michael Rosch in New York, New York. Of course, 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:25.320 the scene is from that obscure little film Avengers Endgame, 0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:28.040 the tie in besides the obvious oversight that kept the 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:30.840 film off. Both Adam and Josh's Top twenty five of 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:34.040 the last twenty five years include the MCU's own meta 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:36.920 look back. Also, Downey Junior won an Oscar last year 0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:39.239 for a film by Christopher Nolan, a director who showed 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:41.440 up on both of your lists. I also believe you 0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:44.640 renamed Scott Lang Peter as a nod to Paul Rudd 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.560 being in the newer Ghostbusters films. Peter, of course, was 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.200 Bill Murray's character, and you opened the show on a 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:55.000 Murray monologue from Lost in Translation. Funny that didn't we 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.360 go with Peter because we were just thinking about I 0:46:57.400 --> 0:46:57.959 love you man. 0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:02.240 I think that's a and Spider Man and Peter Parker. 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:04.560 But but yeah, this works just as well. 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.880 That works actually the best. We'll go with that, Michael. 0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:10.600 Thank you. Josh, go ahead and reach into that pretty 0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:13.760 brimming film Spotting hat and pick out this week's winner. 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:18.359 Our winner is Dave Allen from Parts Unknown, who yeah 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:21.640 joins in with the Thunderbolts praise, saying here, I'm not 0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:23.759 sure if you guys are planning to watch a review Thunderbolts, 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.880 but I think it's the best Marvel movie since shan Che. 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:29.160 How about that, Dave. We don't know where you're from, 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:32.520 but we will if you send us your address, get 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:35.480 you a film Spotting t shirt or a film Spotting 0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:38.800 tote bag, or a trial membership to the Film Spotting Family. 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:41.239 Email us feedback at film spotting dot net. 0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:44.960 How did I come to this? 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:45.920 Not again? 0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:54.719 Five natural one? Look at me? I want to say 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:57.200 that stupid line one more time. 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.000 We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:02.480 or a Theater. I'm gonna give everybody a hint, because 0:48:02.480 --> 0:48:04.200 I don't think the hat's going to be very brimming. 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:08.040 We're apparently obsessed with this movie here on Bone Spot. 0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:10.239 I'm just gonna leave it out. 0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:13.640 In a little last minute research, we appear to have 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:15.960 done a scene from this film about a year ago. 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:18.440 So there's a clue for you. 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:21.440 We didn't discuss this beforehand, but we need to swap 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:23.720 in a name here in your last line. 0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:27.000 Do we want to go with? 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:28.239 I got one? 0:48:28.480 --> 0:48:30.560 Okay, you got one? All right, We're gonna go surprise 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:30.960 me there. 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:37.839 I think I think that this is potentially another hint 0:48:39.040 --> 0:48:41.040 if people are really paying attention, I. 0:48:41.120 --> 0:48:43.360 Was actually going to suggest the same thing, okay, on 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:45.440 the same page, on the same page there, and also here, 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.640 I'll give another hint. If you have already listened or 0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:53.080 will soon listen to our film spoting family bonus episode 0:48:54.000 --> 0:48:59.040 about a draft of dead directors. This title, I believe 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:02.440 is mentioned the film. Your absolute comes up quite a bit. 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:05.440 We'll say that, okay, okay, I think we'll hopefully we've 0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:08.440 dropped enough our performances will be of no help at all. 0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:10.600 They will be of no help. And I am going 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:12.680 to point out that I have once again been typecast. 0:49:13.320 --> 0:49:17.320 I mean this that or it's your your strength. Well, no, 0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:18.960 it's not your strength. We could just you're just. 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:22.600 We could go with that. Okay, I'm gonna start it off. 0:49:22.640 --> 0:49:27.320 You're gonna give me the action and action. Oh but 0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:31.040 you have that look, dear, I can always tell now 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:35.759 you haven't been doing anything foolish. M m, well, I 0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:38.359 do hope you've forgotten all about that silly little plan 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:42.839 of yours, which one about blowing up the White House. 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.640 Oh ma, I was only fooling. Besides, what would the 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:47.439 president say? 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:53.479 You're a naughty boy, Sasha. You can always make me laugh. 0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:57.879 Now get shaved before your father gets home. 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:04.279 Wow, and see, man, I don't know it is. 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.720 Maybe it is a position of strength. 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:10.560 If you add giggling, I think it becomes a position 0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:11.080 of strength. 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:14.080 Nicely do if you know what film we just massacred, 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:16.600 email the movie's title and your name on location to 0:50:16.640 --> 0:50:19.960 feedback at film spotting dot net. The deadline is Monday, 0:50:20.040 --> 0:50:23.720 junifverse Robert Downey Junior last week, This this week, range 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:28.000 course the winner randomly from all the correct entries and 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:29.560 announce it in a couple of weeks. 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:39.239 Ring ring, ring, Ring, Ring, ring, Pick up, pick up 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:48.920 the phone. Hello, Hello, ven Selina, Seva bien et. 0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:52.480 Shows that quiet. 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:55.960 I've been working on my English recently. 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:57.040 You want to talk in English? 0:50:57.239 --> 0:50:57.759 Just for laughs? 0:50:58.280 --> 0:50:59.799 Yeah, okay, that's a good idea. 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:03.719 I don't think I'm going to be able to make 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:04.439 it for lunch today. 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:07.880 Selene and Jesse again, this time in nineteen ninety five's 0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:12.320 before Sunrise. We revisited Sunrise just back in March. That 0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:16.160 was part of Film Spotting Fest. We closed out those 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:19.360 wonderful three days Adam with a sold out Sunday morning 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:23.960 screening at Chicago's Music Box, and then after the screening, 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:27.640 we hauled ourselves back up on stage. You and I 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:31.600 were quite exhausted, but we leaned on producer Sam and 0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:35.600 critic and friends Scott Tobias to talk about the film. 0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:37.360 Here is that audio. 0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:43.239 We're excited to have Scott Tobias, our friend from the 0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:46.960 Next Picture Show podcast and from the Reveal, joining us 0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:49.520 to talk about, as you heard, one of my all 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:52.560 time favorite movies before Sunday. Scott, thanks for joining. 0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:54.279 Us thanks for having me. This is great. 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:56.239 And look at all these people stick it around for 0:51:56.320 --> 0:51:57.840 your Q and I like a bunch of sickos. 0:51:58.000 --> 0:51:58.200 Yep. 0:52:00.000 --> 0:52:02.440 Funny I mentioned Friday Night with Ryan Johnson. You know 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:04.200 how Brick is one of these films where it's all 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:06.200 taking place in high school and there's one cell phone 0:52:06.280 --> 0:52:09.319 in the movie, and how different the movie would be. Now, 0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:12.080 this is the ultimate pre cell phone movie, right, pre 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:13.120 social media film. 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:14.880 I think you'd have to in order to I was 0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:16.800 thinking about that, and I think the only way to 0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.440 make it work is if they both somehow drop their 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:22.040 cell phones into the Danube, and then I think maybe 0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:23.359 you could have this work. 0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:25.680 You do wonder how do the kids meet these days? 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:28.080 Like if they don't carry around books that you can say, 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:30.520 what are you reading? It's like what are you looking 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:32.480 at on your phone while someone's dancing? 0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:33.759 I mean, you know, hey, yeah. 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:36.479 So, before we dive into the movie a little bit further, 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:41.000 we've been talking to all of our guests about kind 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:42.680 of this is the twentieth year of the show, right, 0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:45.160 so reflecting a little bit and want to share with 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:49.400 the audience our relationship actually to you, Scott, and I 0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:52.160 guess we'll get it a little bit, your relationship to us, 0:52:52.280 --> 0:52:54.960 but your tenure with the AV Club give us the 0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:56.280 years just so we can kind. 0:52:56.160 --> 0:53:03.120 Of I met my longtime partner and friend and editor 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:08.440 and current cohort Keith Phipps in nineteen ninety seven at 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:12.480 a junket for Goodwill Hunting and Scream two. I was 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.200 in college graduate school, and he was working for the 0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:18.560 AV Club. He was part of what was a skeleton 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:21.520 crew of three at the time, working out of Madison, 0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:24.480 and they were just starting up the Chicago edition and 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:26.920 needed somebody to do the local part of that. I 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:29.239 did not get that job, but I did start freelancing for. 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:31.600 Them, and they came up in nineteen ninety nine. 0:53:31.880 --> 0:53:34.920 Was there I think until two thousand and twelve or 0:53:34.920 --> 0:53:37.200 twenty and fourteen, I can't remember. And then we started 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:39.759 the Dissolve together, which lasted for a couple of years 0:53:39.760 --> 0:53:42.400 through Pitchfork and now we have The Reveal, which is 0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:43.040 their newsletter. 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:43.359 Yeah. 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:45.279 So between ninety seven and two thousand and five when 0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:47.840 our show started, all three of us are reading the 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:51.960 AV Club, reading Keith reading Tasha Robinson reading you, and 0:53:52.080 --> 0:53:54.280 we're thinking about, man if we could ever get guests 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:55.880 on the show. Would we ever get a guy like 0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:59.520 Scott Tobias to pay attention to us? Honestly, that what 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:02.479 we thought undred percent, And I think you were maybe 0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:06.360 the second ever guest host that we had. You actually 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:08.239 said yes and came on the show, but even before that, 0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:10.640 you listened to the show to decide whether or not 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:12.640 you thought it was worth it, and then you wrote 0:54:12.680 --> 0:54:14.520 something very lovely about us in the av Club that 0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:16.799 we had no idea was coming, but for us back 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:19.480 in six whenever it was, it was very validating. So 0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:20.480 thank you. It was. 0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:23.600 It was great, and I have to say you reached 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:25.080 out to me at first, I think when it was 0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:28.040 cinecast and I was like, what is this I'm not 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:31.320 gonna do, And so it was, you know, just a 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:33.600 matter of you listening to the show and being completely 0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:37.520 blown away by how good the discussion was, the quality 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:41.040 of the production, the quality of the insight, and of 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:43.719 course it was something I was happy to recommend and 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:46.480 then join for as a guest episode about Knocked Up. 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:47.239 I believe was what we. 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:50.759 Thought right, Sam was off you join joined me for 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.640 that one twenty fifth anniversary. We'll sit down and have 0:54:53.680 --> 0:54:56.440 a conversation. We'll devote an entire panel just to the 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:58.520 legal dispute that caused us to change our name to 0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:00.800 film Spotting, because I know everyone dying to hear that. 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:03.880 But yes, we did start as sinecaster first one hundred episodes, 0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:07.920 so before Sunrise. What was your relationship to it at 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:10.840 the time that came out. Tell us about your first experience. 0:55:10.840 --> 0:55:14.000 It's really kind of perfect because I am the same 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:16.840 age as the characters in the movie. I think Selene 0:55:16.880 --> 0:55:19.160 says she's twenty three. I think that would have been 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:22.080 when I saw it. I was one year out of school. 0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:24.840 It was kind of towny at that point in Athens, Georgia, 0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:28.720 and I saw the movie at a screening at college, 0:55:28.800 --> 0:55:31.279 like at college screening, and at the time link latter 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:36.120 was extremely exciting. This was, you know, because yes, Slacker 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.840 had come out while I was an undergrad, like it 0:55:38.920 --> 0:55:39.719 was ninety three. 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:41.239 Was days to confused. 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:45.080 You didn't mention, of course, I wasn't aware of his 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:47.400 actual first film, which is what the uh? 0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:50.160 You can't learn to plow by reading books. 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:53.400 But in any case, I was a bit of a 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:57.760 ethan hawk skeptic at the time, but I was completely 0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:01.560 wowed by the movie and extremely moved by it, and 0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:04.719 I remain so this was powerful to see, and it's 0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:08.839 extraordinary to me that the sequels exists. That was one 0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:10.480 of those people where it was like, Oh, there's going 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.239 to be another Before Sunrise movie. 0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:15.360 I think ten years later I was like, no, what 0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:15.839 are you doing. 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:17.120 This is a horrible idea. 0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:18.440 Then, of course it turns out to it was not 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:20.759 a horrible if anything, if anything at least is going 0:56:20.800 --> 0:56:21.960 to be even better than this one. 0:56:22.040 --> 0:56:25.600 So but I feel like, you know, I've grown with it. 0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:28.680 And one of the things that I really appreciate. 0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:30.480 About the film is that it is such a chronicle 0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:34.520 of a specific moment of a person's life. They have 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:36.680 to be this age in order to have this kind 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:39.640 of experience, in order to have that impulse to get 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:42.080 off the train, in order to really engage not just 0:56:42.520 --> 0:56:42.960 in each. 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:46.960 Other, but the idea of doing this, I think, is 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:48.200 very specific. 0:56:47.800 --> 0:56:50.520 To that time and where they are in their lives, 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:53.600 and this is a film that captures that feeling so intensely. 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:57.440 I think I just saw it on DVD or VHS, 0:56:57.600 --> 0:56:59.360 maybe even at the time in ninety five, I had 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:01.399 to wait. It was not coming to my small town 0:57:01.480 --> 0:57:02.200 theater in Iowa. 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:03.439 What was your experience, guys. 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:05.799 Yeah, for me, it was definitely a college movie. 0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:07.840 I was in college at the time, so would have 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.960 seen it then, And you don't remember liking it, but 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:14.520 probably having a little of that hawk skepticism even though 0:57:14.920 --> 0:57:18.000 so reality bites you were saying, Adam was just before, 0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:19.560 right just before. 0:57:19.440 --> 0:57:20.640 And which I liked. 0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:23.760 But it's kind of, you know, you look at him 0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:26.120 kind of like she does in this movie, a little 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:29.080 askance at first, even though you are mesmerized by what 0:57:29.240 --> 0:57:31.760 he's saying. And so it's probably a movie that I 0:57:31.880 --> 0:57:34.960 warmed up to. But I think that's the right relationship 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:37.600 to have with this film. As wonderful as it is 0:57:37.760 --> 0:57:42.120 to see at a young age, it's when you're maybe 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:45.240 a little closer to that couple on the train that 0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:50.200 this movie starts to kind of burrow deeper. And it was, 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:53.200 you know, maybe not until I don't know, I'm teem 0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:56.120 viewing for when we talked about it. For some maybe 0:57:56.160 --> 0:57:57.600 it was one of those top five lists. I looked 0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:00.720 at it again, Adam, but realizing you, does she know 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:05.280 when she gets up to move away from them, that 0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:09.280 in twenty years, you know, before midnight, you know that 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.680 she's going to be playing a variation of that scene 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:14.320 with him. So spoiler sorry for those who are just 0:58:14.360 --> 0:58:16.280 seeing this the first time, like a. 0:58:16.280 --> 0:58:18.720 Love little journey to go on everybody, Yeah, we promise. 0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:21.720 All that to say is it's a movie that's wonderful 0:58:21.760 --> 0:58:24.200 if you see it at you know, thirteen or whatever, 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:26.919 but you're gonna love it a lot lot more down 0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:27.280 the road. 0:58:27.480 --> 0:58:28.240 When did you see it? 0:58:28.320 --> 0:58:30.680 So, so I would have been twenty. It came out, 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:33.000 you said, a limited release in the summer, so I 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:35.120 think I had kind of an ideal viewing. It actually 0:58:35.200 --> 0:58:38.160 did come to the small theater in my town in 0:58:38.280 --> 0:58:41.120 central New Hampshire, in the Lakes region, and probably it 0:58:41.200 --> 0:58:44.760 was a lovely, you know, summer evening, and my mom 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:49.400 and I went to see it together. So I just 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:51.480 feel like, you know, what I was thinking is I 0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:53.960 was here, is like, this is a film I've seen 0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:58.520 many times, but something was missing all of you, right, 0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:01.960 just like Delpy says, there was something special about seeing 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:06.520 it here, deeply moving and of course you can't extract 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:10.680 this from the entire before enterprise at this point, the 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:12.760 three films and what they meant. I think the last 0:59:12.800 --> 0:59:14.320 time I saw it was maybe right on the heels 0:59:14.360 --> 0:59:18.520 of midnight, and I was thinking about it before this morning. 0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:22.760 You know, if any of us are in relationships that 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:26.160 are at all stable, happy, however you want to talk 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:31.360 about it, maybe the last emotionally risky thing we did 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:35.640 was initiate that conversation, that first date with the people 0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:39.080 we're still with, right and this movie, and we'll get 0:59:39.120 --> 0:59:41.520 into maybe our favorite moment, so I'll save it next. 0:59:41.600 --> 0:59:46.240 But this is a movie all about those moments of 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:50.520 taking little leaps, of embracing that risk. And so what 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:53.240 it makes you think, you know, more than what makes 0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:55.520 it special as a movie is make it and how 0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:59.320 you end up reflecting on your life, My life at twenty, 1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:03.720 life at you know, at nearly thirty, at in my forties, 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:06.760 and that's what makes this whole thing such a special thing. 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:10.120 Yeah, for all you non gen xers out there, all 1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:14.120 you kids, you know, congrats on your youth, but you 1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:17.480 you didn't get to have Jesse and Saline mark the 1:00:17.560 --> 1:00:20.080 stages of your life the way we did, right, And 1:00:20.200 --> 1:00:22.960 I really do value that and feel that that's that's 1:00:22.960 --> 1:00:25.080 something really special. You set us up, Sam, I think 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:27.280 we should we should talk about it. There are so 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:29.520 many great moments to choose from. We did do a 1:00:29.600 --> 1:00:32.439 top five link later scenes. We should have just done 1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:35.440 scenes from this trilogy, and maybe we can revisit that 1:00:35.960 --> 1:00:39.240 at some point. What's your favorite moment in the film, 1:00:39.400 --> 1:00:41.320 What is your favorite scene? We can kind of go 1:00:41.400 --> 1:00:43.480 down the road same did one? Did one stand out 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:45.640 this time? Is it different than what maybe you thought 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:47.240 it was going to be going in? 1:00:48.160 --> 1:00:51.880 There are three and a right to not scenes moments, 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:54.080 So these are moments, and these are all wordless moments. 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:58.400 And I realized, actually very late that what made me 1:00:58.680 --> 1:01:00.680 be able to take in these moments is that there's 1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:04.360 no score. There's music, but no score. In fact the harpsichord. 1:01:04.400 --> 1:01:06.280 I was like, oh there is a score. No, no, 1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:10.440 it's a real harpsichord the garden apartment. So there are 1:01:10.480 --> 1:01:13.160 three moments and they all capture what I was getting 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:18.640 at the terror of encountering the real Oh shit, this 1:01:18.800 --> 1:01:22.439 is real life. And the first moment is when Jesse 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:25.680 decides to first say something to Suline, and there I 1:01:26.040 --> 1:01:29.200 don't think it's my imagination. There's a subtle push in 1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:32.280 of the camera right before he says something, so you 1:01:32.400 --> 1:01:35.320 see the choice he makes and It's like, these are 1:01:35.360 --> 1:01:38.320 the moments where you can't not be sincere. This is 1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:41.880 such a gen X movie. Sincerity was not something we 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:44.680 were great at. We didn't love that still are. 1:01:46.160 --> 1:01:46.200 So. 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:49.880 So there's that moment and you see it on his face, 1:01:50.400 --> 1:01:52.280 and again the camera really helps with that. There's that 1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:55.880 little push in the listening booth scene. Obviously great. 1:01:56.000 --> 1:01:56.920 So you're gonna take all of it. 1:01:56.960 --> 1:01:58.880 I'm not gonna take the scene. I'm not gonna take 1:01:58.920 --> 1:02:01.520 the scene. I'm just gonna There is a moment, so 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:05.440 the music starts. God, what a great scene. God, But 1:02:05.600 --> 1:02:09.160 there is a moment the music started. As soon as 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:13.720 we hear her voice, Selene is startled. There's a moment 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:20.440 where she almost shakes because it's the voice again is 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:24.320 singing with such sincerity that I think it wakes her 1:02:24.400 --> 1:02:26.960 up to the reality of the moment. And and we've 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:30.440 all felt that that little shiver of what music can 1:02:30.520 --> 1:02:35.000 do and being in that moment with somebody. The third moment, 1:02:36.200 --> 1:02:38.640 right before the kiss, it's right before the first kiss. 1:02:39.440 --> 1:02:41.160 They're on what what is that called that they're on? 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.480 It's like a it is a fairis wheel, Okay, it 1:02:44.600 --> 1:02:48.320 has a European name, probably but it's very famous. 1:02:48.360 --> 1:02:49.960 It's the way from the third man. 1:02:50.400 --> 1:02:54.480 Oh sure, right, of course, the moment right before they 1:02:54.640 --> 1:02:58.440 actually kiss, there's been that whole great exchange about like, 1:02:58.600 --> 1:03:00.840 you know, he's trying to make it cute. You see 1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:04.240 on his face. There's no other word for it. It's terror. 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:07.800 He's like, this is real, We're really doing this, this 1:03:07.960 --> 1:03:12.000 is meaningful. And again, the lack of score. I think 1:03:12.080 --> 1:03:14.880 a score would erase those moments or your ability to 1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:18.800 connect with those moments. It's so nakedly exposed and they're 1:03:18.920 --> 1:03:22.400 so good at capturing it. Those are my three favorite. 1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:25.080 Moments between she talks about later you need it, and 1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:27.680 the music would ruin that great, great film. 1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:29.240 So yeah, lack of score. 1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:32.680 I'm going to talk about moments where there's lack of 1:03:32.800 --> 1:03:35.440 dialogue and there's an irony there with you know, Linklater, 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:39.200 who is such a verbose filmmaker in so many great ways. 1:03:39.320 --> 1:03:41.840 But when we did our you mentioned ad on top 1:03:41.920 --> 1:03:44.560 five Ethan Hawk moments. This was episode six ninety six. 1:03:45.360 --> 1:03:48.600 I picked on the tram that early moment where he 1:03:48.920 --> 1:03:53.240 tentatively reaches out to fix Salim's hair and then stops 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:56.040 himself because it's the pause for me. 1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:56.840 That's romantic. 1:03:57.040 --> 1:04:01.320 It's the it's the acknowledging of where we are right 1:04:01.400 --> 1:04:05.120 now and we're not there. And so I'm going to pause. 1:04:05.440 --> 1:04:08.080 And we when we did uh just talk about our 1:04:08.120 --> 1:04:10.680 Pantheon review Adam of Cleo from five to seventh of 1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:14.320 ARTI film, we were talking about how that extended tram 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:17.480 scene between the two of them, there is, you know, 1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:19.800 obvious inspiration for this tram sequence. 1:04:19.880 --> 1:04:22.640 So and the Palm Reader, did you guys think of 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:25.520 that too? That's right, the Palm Reader, which is opens 1:04:26.560 --> 1:04:27.320 ives of seven. 1:04:27.120 --> 1:04:28.960 Start to the Power. Yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. 1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:29.240 Sam. 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:31.840 That's good, and so the other one. And I have 1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:34.880 the receipts for this, so I'm claiming this and I 1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:39.000 can prove it. Sorry, Scott, but we did link later 1:04:39.080 --> 1:04:41.640 scenes on five to eighty one. My number one all 1:04:41.720 --> 1:04:44.280 his filmography, listening Booth. 1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:46.160 It's the listening booth. 1:04:46.200 --> 1:04:51.600 And it's again no words, a word, one word. You're 1:04:51.720 --> 1:04:54.640 begging that no one says a word, because one word 1:04:54.680 --> 1:04:56.480 from two of them would ruin that. 1:04:57.240 --> 1:05:01.240 And the way we're allowed to read into their reactions. 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:05.080 I don't know if there's any interviews that talk about 1:05:05.360 --> 1:05:08.840 rehearsals that went into that or did link later just 1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:11.680 throw them into the booth and trust them. You know, 1:05:11.720 --> 1:05:14.680 their chemistry is obviously one of the major elements of 1:05:14.720 --> 1:05:17.360 this movie. But yeah, to just to let that play out, 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:20.080 and then the choice to end it, which I had 1:05:20.120 --> 1:05:24.200 forgotten again watching it today, but that it doesn't conclude, 1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:28.160 but that song continues as then we get a few 1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:31.560 shots across the city. So yeah, for me, it's always 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:32.560 going to be the listening booth. 1:05:34.360 --> 1:05:36.480 I was like, Nobod's gonna take the listening booth, I'll salute. 1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:38.360 Yeah. 1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:40.960 I mean one thing another thing I will add about 1:05:40.960 --> 1:05:44.640 the listening booth before choosing something else is I think 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:49.120 when you have that experience of just saying this is 1:05:49.120 --> 1:05:50.560 a really cool song, you want to listen to it. 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:52.400 It's the most awkward thing in the world you could 1:05:52.440 --> 1:05:55.080 do just to stand around and listen to this. And 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.640 this is still a reasonably they still don't know each 1:05:57.640 --> 1:06:00.280 other terribly well, but there is desire that and so 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:01.960 you get all of that, You get that feel of 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:05.360 you're so uncomfortable being in that space together, yet you're 1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:08.600 feeling the flirtiness and the desire and everything is all 1:06:08.720 --> 1:06:12.240 sort of done wordlessly, and the just as performance piece. 1:06:12.320 --> 1:06:14.800 Just watching those two actors in that scene is incredible. 1:06:15.080 --> 1:06:16.960 But I'm just go ahead and let that one go 1:06:17.360 --> 1:06:20.720 to me. It's the it's it's a phone call, uh, 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:23.080 the because you know, it's it's. 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:26.919 So funny and adorable and romantic. But I also love 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:32.600 how that exercise allows them the opportunity to say how 1:06:32.640 --> 1:06:35.120 they really feel about each other and talk in whether 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:37.800 they could not have accessed any other way and so, 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:40.479 and it comes at a point, you know, a little 1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:42.480 bit later in the film where where they're feelings for 1:06:42.560 --> 1:06:46.160 each other have really intensified. And yeah, that's the one 1:06:46.200 --> 1:06:46.400 for me. 1:06:46.840 --> 1:06:49.040 I was sure thinking about this earlier today that I 1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:51.440 was going to say the listening booth as well, because 1:06:51.480 --> 1:06:54.080 it's it's incredible. Yeah, I have no other options here, 1:06:54.120 --> 1:06:58.520 thanks guys. But the the interesting thing too, I noticed 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:00.720 this time. I never really thought about it before, but Sam, 1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:04.280 the kiss follows on the heels of that, and I 1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:07.560 don't think the kiss happens at least at that point 1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.880 in the movie, that point in their day, if we 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:12.680 don't get the listening booth scined first. 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:15.040 It's right, it't happen in the listening booth either. No, 1:07:15.200 --> 1:07:18.520 that's yeah, that would be be interruptive as a word said. 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:21.320 We need to know, they need to know, they need 1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:24.240 to have that shared experience, that they both want it, 1:07:24.440 --> 1:07:27.760 even though they're they're not directly communicating it. And that's 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:30.960 why I think he feels not only like he has to, 1:07:31.320 --> 1:07:34.200 you know, he needs to do it, but emboldened to 1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:37.280 actually try. I think it follows the listening booth. So 1:07:37.560 --> 1:07:40.600 I look back at my link later scenes and I 1:07:40.680 --> 1:07:42.360 thought again that would be number one or two, and 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:45.520 actually that was an honorable mention, my first honorable mention. 1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:48.760 So my number one link later scene was the one 1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:51.760 you just mentioned, Scott. It's the fake phone call scene, 1:07:51.800 --> 1:07:53.720 and it is because of the honesty. And you think 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:56.720 about those first dates, Sam, you've mentioned that when you 1:07:56.960 --> 1:07:59.080 build up the courage to ask someone out, most of 1:07:59.200 --> 1:08:00.880 us probably don't have first states that are quite like 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:02.200 this in the movie. 1:08:02.360 --> 1:08:03.760 You know, they're being pretty. 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:06.520 Open with each other, but you're not open, You're not honest, 1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:09.120 You're not truly honest on a first date. You're still 1:08:09.200 --> 1:08:12.480 presenting a version of yourself, the best version you can 1:08:12.560 --> 1:08:16.360 possibly present. And as honest as they are being with 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:19.120 each other, that's the moment where they finally get to 1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:22.640 really understand how the other feels about them, and they 1:08:22.760 --> 1:08:24.679 only get to do it through the artifice. They only 1:08:24.720 --> 1:08:28.200 get to do it through the mechanism of play acting. 1:08:28.520 --> 1:08:31.479 It's theater, and the other element of it that I 1:08:31.720 --> 1:08:37.320 love is that she says, she reveals that, if she's 1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:39.120 being honest, the moment she really fell in love with 1:08:39.240 --> 1:08:40.840 him was when he was telling the story on the 1:08:40.920 --> 1:08:44.760 train about his grandmother passing away. And the thing is 1:08:44.840 --> 1:08:46.880 Link later. Of course, being the one who wrote the script, 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:50.240 he shows us that. He tells us that go back 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:53.760 and watch it that close up when they cut to 1:08:53.840 --> 1:08:57.200 that reverse shot of her, the camera is just slightly closer. 1:08:57.640 --> 1:08:59.920 We really haven't seen Delpy quite that close. We haven't 1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:03.479 seem Dealty that beautiful. There's something about just the way 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:05.840 she's tilting her head. It's in the performance too, but 1:09:05.960 --> 1:09:08.960 between performance and what Link later is really subtly done 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:09.479 with the camera. 1:09:09.920 --> 1:09:11.080 We see it on her face. 1:09:11.200 --> 1:09:13.120 We read that like, that's the moment she's. 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:15.400 We not only see it, but we remember it when 1:09:15.600 --> 1:09:17.639 she mentions it later that that's the moment. We already 1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:18.200 knew it was. 1:09:18.200 --> 1:09:23.120 The moment so time I was I was shimed. I 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:25.000 don't know why I was shocked by this, because I 1:09:25.120 --> 1:09:28.400 do love Richard link Later movies and would have thought, 1:09:28.479 --> 1:09:32.439 of course he's going to deal with time. But it's 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:34.800 really like the basis of every conversation to have in 1:09:34.880 --> 1:09:35.679 this film isn't. 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:37.439 Every twenty minutes it comes up. I mean, I think 1:09:37.479 --> 1:09:40.600 the first time is when he's talking about his documentary 1:09:40.640 --> 1:09:42.240 idea for cable access or whatever, and. 1:09:42.240 --> 1:09:44.560 I'm thinking about Boyhood and ead Evanquility go on to 1:09:44.640 --> 1:09:45.760 do something kind of like. 1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:48.120 It, but it's like, oh, yeah, just hits you capital 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:52.360 t time and then it comes up over and over again. Yeah, 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:54.000 that it's already very much on his mind. 1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:57.840 And this space they have because it's a limited time space. 1:09:57.880 --> 1:10:00.719 I think that's another reason for the honesty. It frees 1:10:00.760 --> 1:10:03.519 them up, you know, because they are constricted. They have 1:10:03.800 --> 1:10:08.400 time barriers, time constraints, and so they're not planning. I mean, 1:10:08.439 --> 1:10:11.720 they eventually start planning, but they're not planning for date two, 1:10:12.200 --> 1:10:16.280 I guess, and there's a freedom in that, but it's 1:10:16.320 --> 1:10:18.000 all because of the time constriction. 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:18.320 Yeah. 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:21.120 I mean that is the theme of link Latter's career. 1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:23.320 Time and memory, and I think memory is a part 1:10:23.360 --> 1:10:24.760 of this film as well. 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:25.160 You know. 1:10:25.200 --> 1:10:27.599 But if you think about link Latter's career, the film 1:10:27.680 --> 1:10:30.320 he did before this was another Dusk till Dawn movie 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:33.040 was Days and Confused, sort of based around his own 1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:36.000 memories of high school. This happened to him as well 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:39.240 some version of this story. Your Boyhood is obviously an 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:42.320 extension of time which we're following people in both a 1:10:42.400 --> 1:10:45.160 real way and Almoso documentary way as well, because these 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:47.840 are real the actors are real people who are who 1:10:48.360 --> 1:10:51.040 are growing throughout this amount of time. And of course 1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:54.920 all these three films together also interesting to think about 1:10:54.960 --> 1:10:56.719 in terms of time. If you think about the amount 1:10:56.760 --> 1:11:00.680 of time that Justin and Seleen spend together, you know, 1:11:00.760 --> 1:11:03.000 it's just very little between this between the time they 1:11:03.040 --> 1:11:04.960 spend here, which is certainly less than twenty four hours, 1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:06.640 and then and then the little bit of time they 1:11:06.680 --> 1:11:09.400 get in before a sunset, which is kind of done 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:12.200 in real time. The amount of actual time they spend 1:11:12.200 --> 1:11:15.599 together is very very small, which might also explain how 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:17.760 much they're fighting and before midnight when they get to 1:11:17.800 --> 1:11:18.240 know each other. 1:11:19.120 --> 1:11:22.000 But and then of course with the memory part, I. 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.720 Mean you get at the end of this movie, this 1:11:25.080 --> 1:11:29.640 beautiful montage of all the spaces that they've visited and 1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:34.920 recontextualized by their relationship. All of these spaces now have 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:39.080 a meeting imposed upon them and imposed upon us due 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:41.559 to their presence in them, and those spaces are going 1:11:41.600 --> 1:11:43.080 to be remember, are going to be burned in their 1:11:43.120 --> 1:11:45.360 memories and hopefully, I guess if we appreciate the movie 1:11:45.400 --> 1:11:45.960 burned in ours. 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:48.600 I think that connects with your the opening thing you 1:11:48.680 --> 1:11:51.880 mentioned Adam about you know, the camera phones and the technology. 1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:54.120 It's when they say when he says I'm going to 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:57.120 take a picture, you know, and then doesn't, but he 1:11:57.280 --> 1:11:59.920 stands there we're getting Those are the pictures they might 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:02.439 have taken of those spots, Scott when we get back 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:02.600 to it. 1:12:02.760 --> 1:12:04.640 So yeah, I like that that connects with. 1:12:04.680 --> 1:12:07.240 This you know selfie sticks at that time, which was. 1:12:08.000 --> 1:12:09.880 Well, not only that, but you realize there are the 1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:12.640 moments when the conversation dies. That's where I was like, 1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:15.960 I wanted to throw my phone into the equivalent of 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:19.639 the Danube because it's like we fill those moments. Those 1:12:19.640 --> 1:12:21.880 are the moments we'd reach for our phone or be 1:12:22.000 --> 1:12:25.000 like check my texts or check my email. They have 1:12:25.160 --> 1:12:28.280 to sit in those moments of discomfort. The conversation has 1:12:28.680 --> 1:12:30.760 has kind of gone into a little bit of a 1:12:30.840 --> 1:12:33.360 lull and they have to reignite it. It's a nice bridge, 1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:35.479 and it's yeah, and it's like we don't we yeah, 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:36.280 put it, you know. 1:12:36.400 --> 1:12:38.400 It's like, I like this bridge. 1:12:39.520 --> 1:12:42.360 Exactly, we even see that exactly. I got nothing, but 1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:43.880 I realized there needs to be something here. 1:12:43.920 --> 1:12:44.960 How about the bridge. 1:12:45.600 --> 1:12:47.920 Identifying with those moments in a different way. It's like, 1:12:48.000 --> 1:12:51.760 we don't, we don't do that anymore, And it made 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:53.120 me long for those moments. 1:12:53.240 --> 1:12:56.320 Yeah, there's a really significant small thing that happens in 1:12:56.360 --> 1:12:58.600 the movie, at least something that I caught when watching it, 1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:02.360 is when the palm reader comes over and says something 1:13:02.400 --> 1:13:05.280 to Selene about how she believes in the power of 1:13:05.360 --> 1:13:05.719 the moment. 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:08.280 And I think that's really a critical. 1:13:07.960 --> 1:13:10.280 Thing about a film like this, or film like Days 1:13:10.320 --> 1:13:13.320 to Confused, where it's just in its memory based of 1:13:13.479 --> 1:13:17.640 just like these really critical moments out of time that 1:13:17.800 --> 1:13:21.040 just stay with you and are so important, and that 1:13:21.160 --> 1:13:24.960 these two people believe in so sincerely that they're able, 1:13:25.040 --> 1:13:27.280 that they're willing to jump off this train, to get 1:13:27.320 --> 1:13:30.160 off this train together and do something impulsive because they 1:13:30.200 --> 1:13:31.680 want they believe in the power of the moment, and 1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:36.160 they're willing to pursue this moment is as passionately as 1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:39.960 they can without regard to the consequences, without having caution 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:42.280 about what, you know, the reality that there is an 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:44.320 endpoint to all of this, where where she's going to 1:13:44.360 --> 1:13:46.320 get back on train, He's going to take the plane 1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:48.479 back to America, and this this is going to end. 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:50.320 They disregard that thought. 1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:53.160 I'm glad that you mentioned memory in addition to time, 1:13:53.240 --> 1:13:56.519 because I guess enough time had passed since I last 1:13:56.520 --> 1:13:59.040 seen this film. I had forgotten about the coda at 1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:01.360 the end the post. I kind of thought it ended 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:04.439 there at the train station, and the fact that we 1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:07.160 get link later just kind of reminding us of the 1:14:07.200 --> 1:14:09.720 different spots that they hit. But then we also get 1:14:10.400 --> 1:14:13.920 cuts back to each of them reflecting, and you can't 1:14:13.960 --> 1:14:16.519 imagine in that moment that that's what they're doing, is 1:14:16.560 --> 1:14:21.560 they're replaying the night, that's their vision, reimagining, you know, 1:14:21.760 --> 1:14:27.400 what they experienced together. So I forgot to do this earlier. 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:29.720 You can trust Ethan Hawk is going to have an 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:34.040 original idea. We kept overlapping on our favorite scenes, but 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:36.840 I did have a chance. Still my favorite interview ever, 1:14:37.000 --> 1:14:39.479 and it was because of Ethan Hawk one hundred percent 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.840 what he gave to the interview. Best conversation I've had 1:14:42.920 --> 1:14:45.679 on the show a few years back. That's not with Josh, 1:14:46.360 --> 1:14:50.360 Yeah exactly. Okay, well said, if then can win, that's fine. 1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:54.200 And at the end of the conversation, we were out 1:14:54.280 --> 1:14:56.320 of time, and I was going to go through with 1:14:56.439 --> 1:14:59.080 him these scenes and these moments and just get him 1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:00.800 to talk about them, but we were out of time. 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:04.479 As you'll hear, he still decided to share with us 1:15:04.560 --> 1:15:07.240 what his favorite moment is in the film. So I 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:08.720 think Ali's going to help us out and play it. 1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:10.800 There's so much more we could get to. We did 1:15:10.880 --> 1:15:13.240 our top five wink Later scenes a while back, I 1:15:13.280 --> 1:15:16.000 think when Everybody Wants Some came out and I just 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:18.120 looking at Nist again, realized that four of my five 1:15:18.200 --> 1:15:20.599 scenes had you in it. Go and maybe you're Maybe 1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:22.519 another time we'll be able to go through those. 1:15:22.600 --> 1:15:24.640 Yeah, I have to do my favorite that I've ever been. 1:15:24.720 --> 1:15:28.679 He is talking Julie to get off the train before summer. 1:15:28.760 --> 1:15:31.479 Oh yeah, you know, I'm telling her that she was 1:15:31.520 --> 1:15:33.400 going to be a time traveler, and I was going 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:35.439 to make her feel better about her present marriage by 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:37.680 revealing to her how what a loser I want. 1:15:38.840 --> 1:15:41.240 He was a loser. That's the thing. Isn't that the 1:15:41.240 --> 1:15:43.960 big secret in this movie? He almost blows it like 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:45.479 a half a dozen times at least. 1:15:45.600 --> 1:15:48.800 Yeah, I mean he's still He's still Ethan Hawk, And 1:15:48.840 --> 1:15:50.840 I'm going to say that that two film run with 1:15:50.960 --> 1:15:55.160 reality bites in this maybe the most gorgeous man ever 1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:58.800 on screen. So at least that's you know, my predilections. 1:16:00.640 --> 1:16:03.400 But you know, I like that that as well because 1:16:03.479 --> 1:16:05.479 it brings up the time travel aspect of it and 1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:08.000 saying you're right that maybe every twenty minutes time is 1:16:08.120 --> 1:16:12.880 explicitly referenced, but every single conversation is either them thinking 1:16:12.960 --> 1:16:16.519 about the future, even imagining a future that they may 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:18.360 have together, even though I don't think either of them 1:16:18.479 --> 1:16:20.800 in that moment actually believe that, or they're reflecting on 1:16:20.840 --> 1:16:21.760 their past, right. 1:16:22.600 --> 1:16:25.400 I do think the deflation of Jesse is key to 1:16:25.520 --> 1:16:29.640 this movie though. It's really why it works. But it's not, 1:16:30.040 --> 1:16:31.599 you know, making him into a joke at all. It's 1:16:31.600 --> 1:16:34.800 allowing him to be a truer sense of himself it's 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:38.680 allowing him to be more than that guy who is 1:16:39.000 --> 1:16:41.720 telling that time travel story, which is a great one, 1:16:41.800 --> 1:16:44.000 but it's a bit of a performance, right, And so 1:16:44.200 --> 1:16:47.519 he needs someone like her who's willing to prod and 1:16:47.600 --> 1:16:52.559 poke at that affectionately so that he can become more genuine. 1:16:52.680 --> 1:16:54.840 And then she needs him. 1:16:54.960 --> 1:16:57.320 She needs a sparring partner. She needs someone to, like, 1:16:58.000 --> 1:17:00.559 you know, provide her with some ideas she can push 1:17:00.640 --> 1:17:03.240 back against. And he's definitely do that and doing that, 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:05.680 and in a way they become this couple that is 1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:08.599 self giving. I think Jesse says a couple of times 1:17:08.600 --> 1:17:11.320 when he talks about love, who are giving each other 1:17:11.439 --> 1:17:13.280 something else that they need. It might just be for 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:17.240 these eighteen hours or whatever. But Delpy reminded me watching 1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:23.120 it today of another great nineties woman character, actually Elaine 1:17:23.160 --> 1:17:26.439 in Seinfeld. I was getting so many Julia Louis Dreyfus, 1:17:26.560 --> 1:17:29.200 because especially that one line where she goes he says, what. 1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:32.360 Bothers you, and shees, I hate everything. It's just like 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:34.080 and then you can see her going off. 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:36.880 I was picturing how there's this same sort of like 1:17:37.560 --> 1:17:41.280 going to take the world on and not worry about 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:44.120 the consequences, and he provides her that space to do 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:45.280 it for these couple of hours. 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:47.559 Well, I love too that link Later and his writing 1:17:47.640 --> 1:17:50.599 partner clearly had learned a few things, but they were 1:17:50.600 --> 1:17:53.720 still able to write for who these characters were at 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:57.280 that time, which were two people that had a lot 1:17:57.360 --> 1:18:00.719 of ideas and no experience. They were full of shit basically, 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:03.479 you know when when kind of us when we start exactly, 1:18:03.760 --> 1:18:06.080 but when Hawk says something like what is love? But 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.679 two selfish people just don't want to be lonely, I'm like, Nope, 1:18:09.800 --> 1:18:14.639 not actually at all. You're totally wrong, And that's that's okay, 1:18:14.960 --> 1:18:18.799 Like he's twenty two, twenty three, and that those characters 1:18:18.840 --> 1:18:21.439 feel authentic in what they don't know and have only 1:18:21.560 --> 1:18:24.679 thought about. Yeah, it's just movies so special. 1:18:24.800 --> 1:18:26.560 Well that's actually a perfect note to go out on. 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:28.719 But I'll open it up to the panel here because 1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:31.000 we do have to Unfortunately, like we ran out of 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:33.280 time with Ethan Hawk, we're out of time here to 1:18:33.360 --> 1:18:35.639 talk about Ethan Hawk in this film. Any closing thoughts, 1:18:35.720 --> 1:18:38.400 anything else you want to impart to the crowd. 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:40.880 M hmm, well I want to. I want to let 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:41.880 me impart this this. 1:18:42.560 --> 1:18:45.240 It's not even related to Before Sunrise because this is 1:18:45.360 --> 1:18:47.759 the end of your this is your yeah film Festival. 1:18:47.840 --> 1:18:49.519 At film Festival, when. 1:18:49.360 --> 1:18:53.200 We talk about film discourse, usually the word discourse we 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:56.360 put in scare quotes and I and I think that 1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:59.400 as a critic, the best thing that you can do 1:18:59.840 --> 1:19:08.280 is to inspire curiosity, passion, thought, conversation, deepen the experience 1:19:08.360 --> 1:19:10.679 for people. And I think that is something that Film 1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:14.120 Spotting has done throughout its twenty years and continues to 1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:18.400 do and has cultivated this extraordinary crowd. And so I 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:21.680 just wanted to tip my hat to film Spotting at twenty. 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:28.240 Thank you very much, Thanks Scott, Thank you. From March. 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:31.240 That was our post screening Film spotting Fest conversation about 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:34.960 Before Sunrise with Scott Tobias and producer Sam recorded live 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:37.160 at Chicago's Music Box Theater. If you'd like to take 1:19:37.200 --> 1:19:39.320 a look back and learn a little bit about Film 1:19:39.360 --> 1:19:42.040 Spotting Fest, you can go to filmspotting dot net slash 1:19:42.320 --> 1:19:46.479 film Spotting dash Fest. One more piece of business. These 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:49.720 revisits of the first two before movies. This really is 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:53.120 a jam pack show, Josh. Those revisits were part of 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:56.680 our Pantheon project for titles in the Pantheon that have 1:19:56.840 --> 1:20:00.840 never received a proper review, we're giving them their due, 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:03.360 and this is going to be ongoing, tying them in 1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:07.759 with different anniversaries over the next few years. Before Sunrise, 1:20:07.880 --> 1:20:11.440 Before Sunset safe to say still Pantheon worthy. 1:20:11.280 --> 1:20:13.000 Josh Absolutely, yep. Okay. 1:20:13.479 --> 1:20:16.280 The third film in the trilogy, twenty thirteen's Before Midnight, 1:20:16.920 --> 1:20:19.160 is also in the Pantheon. It was a package deal 1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:22.760 that did get a review on the show way back 1:20:22.800 --> 1:20:26.360 on episode four forty nine, so we can consider its 1:20:26.439 --> 1:20:30.040 ticket to the Pantheon already punched. And the answer is, 1:20:30.200 --> 1:20:32.840 we are going to consider it's ticket punch but we're 1:20:32.880 --> 1:20:34.599 also going to take another look at it in twenty 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:37.240 twenty eight. Why not for its fifteenth anniversary. 1:20:37.520 --> 1:20:37.720 Yeah. 1:20:37.840 --> 1:20:39.679 Yeah, As I think I mentioned when we were talking 1:20:39.760 --> 1:20:43.120 Before Sunset is, I can only imagine my appreciation will 1:20:43.200 --> 1:20:44.880 rise for it and as it did for Sunset on 1:20:44.960 --> 1:20:46.560 a revisit. So it would be fun to do that. 1:20:47.280 --> 1:20:50.120 But we felt like we'd be remiss if we didn't 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:54.680 use this occasion all this Pantheon talk to induct one 1:20:54.800 --> 1:20:57.760 more film. We're doing a special exemption. We're not going 1:20:57.800 --> 1:21:01.679 to induct anymore Pantheon films until next year when it's time. 1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:05.240 We've decided that we're not going to willy nilly in 1:21:05.320 --> 1:21:07.240 duck movies into the Pantheon. There will be a time 1:21:07.840 --> 1:21:11.160 every year, the same month when we'll do it. There's 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:14.640 a process now, Josh. But there's a special exemption and 1:21:14.800 --> 1:21:16.840 this movie is worthy and we're going to give you 1:21:16.920 --> 1:21:21.599 its bona fides. That movie is Paul Thomas Anderson's There 1:21:21.600 --> 1:21:22.240 Will Be Blood. 1:21:22.920 --> 1:21:27.360 Why you may recognize it as the champion of film 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:31.439 spotting madness just a few weeks ago, the best films 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:34.120 of this century so far. Yeah, There Will Be Blood 1:21:34.200 --> 1:21:38.479 came out on top. And what other madness did it win? 1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:40.680 Adam? Didn't it win a previous tournament. 1:21:40.680 --> 1:21:43.800 Back in twenty nineteen. It won the best of the 1:21:43.880 --> 1:21:47.200 two thousands, So that makes sense, right. If it's going 1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:49.800 to be the best film of the last twenty five years, 1:21:50.280 --> 1:21:53.000 probably should be the best film of the first ten 1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:56.519 years of this quarter century. It also made my list 1:21:56.640 --> 1:21:58.720 of the top twenty five Films of the century list. 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:01.439 I think it narrowly yours, fair to say, John. 1:22:01.280 --> 1:22:03.760 Yeah, definitely a consideration, and I think it's taken. I 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:06.679 don't know how many film spotting polls over the years 1:22:06.960 --> 1:22:10.559 on various subjects, whenever it came up, whether that's favorite 1:22:10.600 --> 1:22:14.519 Paul Thomas Anderson film or you know, having listeners also 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:17.600 vote in these sorts of rankings of the decades. So 1:22:17.720 --> 1:22:21.920 this is a movie that is routinely revered on the 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:26.519 show and would be the obvious pick if we needed 1:22:26.560 --> 1:22:29.040 a Paul Thomas Anderson film in the Pantheon. I think 1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:32.120 would be an obvious consensus pick. And yes, I will 1:22:32.280 --> 1:22:34.200 say that again, we do not have a Paul Thomas 1:22:34.240 --> 1:22:37.479 Anderson's problem in the pantheon, which is a travesty of 1:22:37.560 --> 1:22:39.639 its own that we are going to be correcting now. 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:42.920 And yet as obvious as it is, and as obvious 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:44.880 as it is to have a PTA movie in it, 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:48.439 I know you'd lobby for Phantom Thread, I could lobby 1:22:48.520 --> 1:22:52.639 for The Master, and I'd even potentially lobby for Boogie Nights. 1:22:52.680 --> 1:22:55.920 So it's a tough choice. But with those credentials it 1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:59.840 has to be. There will be blood. It is going 1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:01.280 into the pantheon. 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:12.920 Ry, what is this your farewell speech going home, your 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:13.920 farewell to the troops. 1:23:14.000 --> 1:23:16.760 I'm not going on going with friends, have a good trick. 1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:24.640 More about The film Spotting Pantheon is available at Filmspotting 1:23:24.680 --> 1:23:26.160 dot Net slash Pantheon. 1:23:29.479 --> 1:23:32.080 This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through 1:23:32.120 --> 1:23:34.559 the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 1:23:34.640 --> 1:23:38.280 Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 1:23:38.360 --> 1:23:41.440 time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 1:23:41.439 --> 1:23:44.640 your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 1:23:44.680 --> 1:23:48.760 goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 1:23:48.960 --> 1:23:52.200 and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread Plus 1:23:52.320 --> 1:23:53.680 at one Peloton dot com. 1:23:54.439 --> 1:23:57.280 Hey, it's Brooklyn Adams and I'm partnering with Abercommy to 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:59.639 tell you about the newest drop from their Active brand, 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:03.080 Personal Best. Yp b luggings are made with buttery soft 1:24:03.160 --> 1:24:05.920 fabrics that hug you in all the right places and 1:24:06.200 --> 1:24:09.800 common Abercomi's viral Curve love fit designed to eliminate waste gap, 1:24:10.120 --> 1:24:13.000 Paired with sports bras and super soft sweatshirts. It's active 1:24:13.000 --> 1:24:15.519 word that supports every part of my busy lifestyle and 1:24:15.640 --> 1:24:18.160 gives me my best but ever. Head into the new 1:24:18.240 --> 1:24:21.640 year feeling your personal best. Shop Active by Abercrombie in 1:24:21.720 --> 1:24:23.599 the app, online and in stores. 1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:37.439 Helora, Sure to. 1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:49.479 Hell Bizierier. 1:24:50.520 --> 1:24:54.160 That's for Andre Tarkowski's Nostalgia from nineteen eighty three. It 1:24:54.439 --> 1:24:58.840 is the final film in our Tarkowski Marathon and the 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:02.759 final Tarkowski film, Adam, you needed to see to become 1:25:02.960 --> 1:25:06.160 a completist. We each had different blind spots as part 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:08.519 of this marathon, and this was a big one for 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:11.919 you and now you have seen it the film spotty marathons. 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:13.720 We do these about once or twice a year. There 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:18.120 are opportunities to do just that fill in cinematic blind spots. 1:25:18.160 --> 1:25:18.280 Now. 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:22.120 Nostalgia follows chronologically the film we talked about last week, 1:25:22.200 --> 1:25:27.160 nineteen seventy nine's Stalker. Unlike Stalker, not any metaphysical sci 1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:30.960 fi going on. Instead, this is about a Russian writer 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:34.120 who is traveling to Italy with a translator to conduct 1:25:34.200 --> 1:25:38.320 research for a project about an eighteenth century Russian composer 1:25:38.400 --> 1:25:41.360 who spent some time in this area of Italy. Nostalgia 1:25:41.439 --> 1:25:44.559 premiered in competition at the nineteen eighty three can Film Festival, 1:25:44.880 --> 1:25:49.120 where Tarkowski shared the Best Director prize with another cinematic heavyweight, 1:25:49.520 --> 1:25:53.760 Robert Broussan, for what ended up being Brosson's final film, larjen. 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:56.479 If letterbox can be trusted. Josh, it looks like you 1:25:56.720 --> 1:25:59.880 last saw Nostalgia about ten years ago October twenty fifth. 1:26:00.360 --> 1:26:03.320 Was that in advance of our Top five can Best 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:07.439 Director winners Top five in November twenty fifteen or maybe 1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:09.880 another occasion At the time you wrote it would take 1:26:09.960 --> 1:26:12.680 many viewings to get a more specific handle on Tarkovsky's 1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:15.360 thematic aims. I think you could write that about every 1:26:15.400 --> 1:26:18.479 Tarkovski film, and you could write this as well. Yet 1:26:18.520 --> 1:26:20.720 I was more than content to simply swim in the 1:26:20.840 --> 1:26:25.880 movies mysteries and possibilities. Swim an apt word considering all 1:26:26.240 --> 1:26:30.080 the water imagery. It's not many viewings later, It's just 1:26:30.240 --> 1:26:32.479 one at this point. So how was your handle on 1:26:32.600 --> 1:26:33.800 Tarkovsky this time? 1:26:35.000 --> 1:26:37.400 Getting there with this one? You know, in those times 1:26:37.560 --> 1:26:42.120 talking about Stoker, when I referenced other denser works of Tarkovsky, 1:26:42.200 --> 1:26:46.320 I think I was maybe thinking most about nostalgia. Perhaps 1:26:46.400 --> 1:26:49.800 the sacrifice can be a little bit that way. I 1:26:50.200 --> 1:26:53.679 think this viewing has helped me understand a little better 1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:57.200 what I sawce Off in that first view, and it's 1:26:57.240 --> 1:27:00.479 the theme of motherhood. We can maybe spend some time 1:27:00.600 --> 1:27:04.000 talking about that. I still have questions about that theme. 1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:08.840 But let's jump back to start, at least by jumping 1:27:08.920 --> 1:27:11.479 back to our conversation about Stalker, because with that fresh 1:27:11.520 --> 1:27:14.479 in my mind and that being my most recent viewing, 1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:19.519 I notice that nostalgia in a way has a version 1:27:19.600 --> 1:27:22.360 of the room that is in Stoker. I don't think 1:27:22.400 --> 1:27:25.280 this is the dominant theme, but it is interesting that 1:27:25.400 --> 1:27:28.760 it's there, and it's actually there at the start, when 1:27:29.439 --> 1:27:34.400 we do see the interpreter played by Domesiana Giordano going 1:27:34.479 --> 1:27:36.679 into this chapel, it looks like some sort of chapel 1:27:36.840 --> 1:27:41.920 and she's observing what's going on and the sacristan working there. 1:27:42.439 --> 1:27:44.200 I think she asked him what's supposed to happen here, 1:27:44.240 --> 1:27:47.799 and he says, whatever you like, whatever you need most, 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:52.200 and right there I was like, oh wow, we're discussing 1:27:52.280 --> 1:27:55.160 the room. And then he says, how about this, but 1:27:55.280 --> 1:27:59.000 you should at least kneel down, which connects to the 1:27:59.080 --> 1:28:01.479 idea I pulled out about the room being where you 1:28:01.600 --> 1:28:04.479 encounter the divine. I like how he also says that 1:28:04.760 --> 1:28:07.120 earlier on there he says if there are casual lookers 1:28:07.840 --> 1:28:12.080 meaning her at the chapel, nothing happens, so it's kind 1:28:12.120 --> 1:28:14.560 of like how serious what is the faith of the 1:28:14.800 --> 1:28:19.120 professor and the writer in Stalker? And then there's that 1:28:19.840 --> 1:28:23.040 bizarre visit that the poet, this main character makes to 1:28:23.160 --> 1:28:28.200 this abandoned abbey, San Gugano. And as he's wandering around 1:28:28.560 --> 1:28:31.799 this edifice with no roof, nothing in the windows, grass 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:34.200 growing on the ground, but it has this, you know, 1:28:34.320 --> 1:28:37.080 the structure of an abbey. We hear a man and 1:28:37.120 --> 1:28:40.080 a woman talking about the man seeking God, but God 1:28:40.200 --> 1:28:43.559 not responding, and so you know, these are all through 1:28:43.680 --> 1:28:45.840 lines to what I think is the main concern of 1:28:45.880 --> 1:28:49.519 Stalker and a side concern here, but definitely because we 1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:51.519 watched discuss Stoker, I feel like I was able to 1:28:51.640 --> 1:28:54.639 draw that out a little bit more. So That's where 1:28:54.680 --> 1:28:56.439 I was at with this second viewing. But yeah, for 1:28:56.560 --> 1:28:59.040 your first viewing, was there something that stood out to 1:28:59.080 --> 1:29:03.120 you as a prominence or preeminent concern of all the 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:07.040 things Tartskovsky is dipping his toes in with this film. 1:29:07.400 --> 1:29:11.160 Well, before I try to answer that I mentioned earlier, 1:29:11.840 --> 1:29:15.640 the coincidence spotting of watching this film after watching and 1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:18.400 also talking about before sunset and sunrise on this show, 1:29:18.600 --> 1:29:21.080 it is not just the nostalgia thing. What did it 1:29:21.200 --> 1:29:24.160 for me. Josh was at some point seeing a close 1:29:24.240 --> 1:29:30.160 up of Domisiana Giordano Eugenia as you mentioned, and seeing 1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:34.720 that strawberry blonde hair, the curly long lock. She's doing 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:36.680 something with her hair, and it was like I was 1:29:36.760 --> 1:29:41.439 looking at Julie Delpy from before, from before Sunset and Sunrise, 1:29:41.760 --> 1:29:46.640 and they're having these philosophical conversations. Is they're kind of 1:29:46.800 --> 1:29:50.839 sitting and strolling around, and he's a writer, like Jesse's 1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:55.400 a writer. And I was just flashing back to Sunset 1:29:55.439 --> 1:29:58.040 and Sunrise as I was watching this movie, even being 1:29:58.120 --> 1:30:01.559 in a foreign country for the writer in this case 1:30:01.720 --> 1:30:04.160 as well. So that was in my mind as I 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:06.960 was watching this film. But what was really in my 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:11.200 mind watching it as the culmination of this marathon was 1:30:12.000 --> 1:30:14.920 how perfect it was. Whether or not it's the last 1:30:15.280 --> 1:30:17.920 film from Tarkovski, it's not, We have the Sacrifice. It 1:30:18.080 --> 1:30:20.400 is a perfect closing film to this marathon, because the 1:30:20.680 --> 1:30:23.920 opening of this movie is a kind of Tarkovski one 1:30:24.000 --> 1:30:29.320 oh one. We have this shot where you've got this 1:30:30.120 --> 1:30:36.000 misty haze fog sweeping across. You've used this word, I 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:38.080 think I've used it before, maybe back when we talked 1:30:38.120 --> 1:30:42.160 about mirror, like something's been conjured, that is that is 1:30:42.280 --> 1:30:46.040 sweeping across the landscape. We have a pond, so we've 1:30:46.080 --> 1:30:50.960 got the water, got to have that. We have a dog, 1:30:52.640 --> 1:30:56.200 and we have a white horse. They're all there, All 1:30:56.240 --> 1:30:59.800 our main characters are here. We also have actual people, 1:31:00.600 --> 1:31:05.479 and they're doing that thing that Tarkovsky characters often do 1:31:06.400 --> 1:31:09.439 and do a lot in this film, which is looking 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:12.640 back at the camera, looking at us, often kind of 1:31:12.680 --> 1:31:15.960 breaking the fourth wall, and it gives us that sense 1:31:16.040 --> 1:31:19.559 of the point of view of a dreamer, the point 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:22.920 of view of someone who is having a memory. And 1:31:23.080 --> 1:31:28.519 it even ends with a freeze frame. And this is 1:31:28.560 --> 1:31:31.360 something Tarkovsky has done in other films, and he's done 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:34.240 in other films in this marathon. Now, I can't completely 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:37.479 rely on my notes here, but I know that in 1:31:37.560 --> 1:31:40.080 other films I have written down, Wait a second, is 1:31:40.120 --> 1:31:42.160 that a subtle? Is that a freeze frame there? And 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:44.240 I went back to my notes for Stalker and I 1:31:44.320 --> 1:31:45.920 swear to God and my notes for Stoker I have 1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:48.880 does it freeze frame on them? 1:31:49.080 --> 1:31:49.960 Just before the rain? 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:52.920 And then I went back to Andre Rubelev and Josh 1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:55.479 I would not have copied and pasted this for any reason, 1:31:55.800 --> 1:31:58.719 It says, does it freeze frame on them just before 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:02.559 the rain? So is it possible that exactly the same moment, 1:32:02.640 --> 1:32:05.840 there's a freeze frame before rain starts to fall in 1:32:06.000 --> 1:32:08.280 those two films, and here again he uses a freeze frame. 1:32:08.360 --> 1:32:12.960 So it's all of these Tarkovsky images and ideas kind 1:32:13.000 --> 1:32:15.240 of co mingling just at the beginning of the film, 1:32:15.280 --> 1:32:19.040 and it's it's haunting and it's beautiful, and I felt 1:32:19.080 --> 1:32:21.760 like I was right in the headspace I needed to 1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:25.720 be in at the beginning of this film. The other 1:32:25.840 --> 1:32:28.360 thing that I guess I'm going to keep harping on 1:32:28.560 --> 1:32:32.400 because he is going to keep harping on it the 1:32:32.520 --> 1:32:36.160 character of the Holy Fool that this movie is largely 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:40.720 built around. We meet Domenico, and here we get a 1:32:40.840 --> 1:32:43.400 great definition of it. I think if you're going to 1:32:44.280 --> 1:32:50.080 ask ultimately what Tarkovsky means by the Holy Fool, we 1:32:50.280 --> 1:32:56.839 have the main character Andre Gorchakov. We have his definition 1:32:56.960 --> 1:33:03.880 what he says to Eugenia, says, they're troublesome, inconvenient, they're alone, 1:33:04.520 --> 1:33:07.920 but they're certainly closer to the truth. I think that 1:33:08.120 --> 1:33:12.240 goes for Andre Rublev, that goes for the main character 1:33:12.320 --> 1:33:14.880 in Stalker. It goes for other characters that we've seen 1:33:15.320 --> 1:33:21.519 throughout this entire marathon. And isn't that ultimately, by the 1:33:21.680 --> 1:33:23.880 end of this film, we're gonna jump ahead. We have 1:33:24.000 --> 1:33:25.960 to get to the end of this film. By the 1:33:26.080 --> 1:33:28.720 end of this movie, isn't that ultimately what we see 1:33:28.800 --> 1:33:33.719 Gortchakov become. Now what happens to our actual holy fool, 1:33:33.920 --> 1:33:36.120 the character who starts as our holy fool, Well, that's 1:33:36.720 --> 1:33:41.440 that's a pretty awful demise. Yeah, And the way Tarkovsky 1:33:41.560 --> 1:33:45.400 depicts it is horrific. In the sound design, he cuts 1:33:45.439 --> 1:33:48.240 out the music Beethoven at one point to give us 1:33:48.720 --> 1:33:52.800 the screams we hear, the screams of pain as he 1:33:53.920 --> 1:33:58.000 has self immolated. And yet Tarkovsky finds a way to 1:33:58.920 --> 1:34:02.439 go from some thing terrible, something brutal, to something kind 1:34:02.479 --> 1:34:05.880 of beautiful, the flames that have engulfed him to the 1:34:05.960 --> 1:34:09.320 flame of the candle, almost a match cut the flame 1:34:09.360 --> 1:34:12.400 of the candle that Andrea is holding as he is 1:34:12.479 --> 1:34:14.880 now going to try to do what Domenico asked him 1:34:14.920 --> 1:34:18.479 to do, which is show his faith walk across the 1:34:18.560 --> 1:34:23.200 water with this candle. And at first I thought, I thought, 1:34:23.280 --> 1:34:27.479 is this another case of Tarkowski asking us as an 1:34:27.520 --> 1:34:31.439 audience to have a certain amount of faith ourselves, because 1:34:32.200 --> 1:34:34.839 it seems like he's walking across the water pretty easily, 1:34:35.000 --> 1:34:36.880 but we don't see his legs and we don't really 1:34:36.920 --> 1:34:39.200 see a wide shot, and so is he doing it 1:34:39.960 --> 1:34:42.439 or is he not doing it? And then you realize, well, okay, 1:34:42.479 --> 1:34:45.559 it's all dried up and so there's really no water there, 1:34:45.960 --> 1:34:48.720 and so it's a little bit of an easy way out, 1:34:49.080 --> 1:34:51.599 but it's not so much of an easy way out 1:34:51.640 --> 1:34:55.240 because he still has to walk across and keep that 1:34:55.400 --> 1:34:59.000 flame intact. And I don't know how long that sequence is, 1:34:59.120 --> 1:35:01.360 but it feels like I didn't have time to go 1:35:01.479 --> 1:35:04.120 back in time. It Josh, that's a long sequence. Okay, 1:35:04.160 --> 1:35:06.920 seven minutes. It feels like an unbroken take has to 1:35:07.000 --> 1:35:09.960 be an unbroken take, right, we have to we have 1:35:10.080 --> 1:35:13.400 to experience that entire journey. That has to feel like 1:35:13.479 --> 1:35:18.599 his entire lifespan shrunken down to seven minutes. And it does. Yeah, 1:35:18.800 --> 1:35:23.479 And as he walks across, he ultimately gets across, and 1:35:23.520 --> 1:35:28.799 I think in that moment does finally prove that he believes, 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:33.000 proves his faith. And for me, that felt like that 1:35:33.360 --> 1:35:36.960 ending felt to me as close to the pinnacle or 1:35:37.040 --> 1:35:41.040 the ideal of a Tarkovsky ending as you could possibly have. 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:44.800 It's an astonishing sequence that is comprised of, yes, little 1:35:44.840 --> 1:35:47.439 more than this man trudging across the length of a 1:35:47.560 --> 1:35:52.120 drained natural pool with a candle, hoping it won't go 1:35:52.200 --> 1:35:55.280 out because of the wind coming through or whatever. Yeah, 1:35:55.560 --> 1:35:57.160 this would have been my scene of the year if 1:35:57.200 --> 1:35:59.000 it came out in nineteen eighty three. It's just one 1:35:59.040 --> 1:36:05.920 of these sustained but quiet instances of slow cinema being 1:36:06.000 --> 1:36:09.479 mesmerized by that and you get lost in the effort. 1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:12.160 You get Time takes on a different meaning if you 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:18.200 allow yourself to give into it. Is it him expressing 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:22.800 his faith? I can see that I'm still uncertain of 1:36:22.920 --> 1:36:25.759 what's going on in that scene, even though I submit 1:36:25.880 --> 1:36:28.400 to its power. I think that I think that would 1:36:28.439 --> 1:36:31.240 make sense. This is something the Holy fool has asked 1:36:31.320 --> 1:36:34.880 him to do. It is something that he didn't do. 1:36:35.080 --> 1:36:36.680 I forget if he tells him at one point that 1:36:36.760 --> 1:36:38.920 he did it before he's done it. I suggests that 1:36:39.040 --> 1:36:41.080 he suggests that he's done and he has it, So 1:36:41.320 --> 1:36:44.680 it is he's he's circling back to follow through on 1:36:44.800 --> 1:36:49.479 something he promised, which is interesting, and yeah, what is 1:36:50.200 --> 1:36:54.479 maybe this is him entering the room to bring it 1:36:54.600 --> 1:36:58.160 back to Stalker is by doing this, he's taking that 1:36:58.320 --> 1:37:01.479 step that the writer and the professor wouldn't take. So 1:37:01.680 --> 1:37:04.960 that coincides with what you're talking about in terms of 1:37:05.000 --> 1:37:07.439 an expression of faith. So yeah, I like that, but 1:37:07.560 --> 1:37:11.840 it is also his last I read it as his 1:37:12.120 --> 1:37:15.400 last gesture on earth because I too, and. 1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:18.479 That supports my theory to me. Yeah, he makes it 1:37:19.240 --> 1:37:22.000 that expression, that ultimate expression of faith. 1:37:22.520 --> 1:37:27.080 It also transports him to because it's not literally the 1:37:27.160 --> 1:37:30.000 final scene. What we then get is that like it 1:37:30.160 --> 1:37:32.120 is a freeze frame shot, I think, but the camera 1:37:32.439 --> 1:37:36.840 is still pulling back again. One of these definitive Tarkowsky 1:37:36.920 --> 1:37:39.439 images that you know, if you just google his name, 1:37:39.600 --> 1:37:41.600 it's one of the images that will come credible of 1:37:42.320 --> 1:37:44.479 the poet. This is we're in black and white. Now, 1:37:44.520 --> 1:37:46.160 we haven't really talked about the shifts too much of 1:37:46.280 --> 1:37:47.960 color and black and white, but we're in black and white, 1:37:47.960 --> 1:37:51.160 which has been suggested to be his visions or dreams 1:37:51.240 --> 1:37:54.880 or memories, and the shack we've seen in these visions 1:37:54.920 --> 1:37:58.320 and dreams and memories is there yet it is somehow 1:37:58.479 --> 1:38:02.840 inside this abandoned abby I've described which quick note and 1:38:03.160 --> 1:38:05.120 speaking of you know as it came up earlier in 1:38:05.160 --> 1:38:07.519 the show Debi iron Off on a thirtieth anniversary trip. 1:38:07.600 --> 1:38:10.880 Tenth anniversary trip was to Italy and we went to 1:38:10.960 --> 1:38:14.600 this abbey, son Gealganok Abbey. Yeah, it is one of 1:38:14.800 --> 1:38:20.280 the most unsettling places I've been on Earth, in the 1:38:20.479 --> 1:38:23.640 sense that you don't know what it's supposed to be 1:38:24.240 --> 1:38:26.840 because it is completely It has this edifice. It is 1:38:26.880 --> 1:38:28.920 an abbey, but it looks like a cathedral. It wasn't 1:38:28.920 --> 1:38:30.880 a cathedral. It was, you know, a place where monks 1:38:30.880 --> 1:38:33.080 worshiped and lived, but it has the edifice of a 1:38:33.160 --> 1:38:37.560 massive cathedral, and yet nature has taken over inside and 1:38:37.600 --> 1:38:40.760 there's no roof. And it's just so perfect that a 1:38:40.800 --> 1:38:43.280 place like that would show up in a Tarkaff movie 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:45.040 because it exists here on Earth, but it seems like 1:38:45.040 --> 1:38:47.280 it'd be one of these art installations he would create 1:38:47.400 --> 1:38:50.280 for one of his movies at any rate. At this shot, 1:38:50.720 --> 1:38:53.320 we have the poet sitting in the middle of this abbey. 1:38:53.760 --> 1:38:56.720 Miniature work had to be involved to get this, to 1:38:57.000 --> 1:38:59.280 pull this off, and he's sitting there with the dog 1:38:59.680 --> 1:39:03.519 again looking at the camera. Snow begins to fall. So 1:39:03.680 --> 1:39:06.840 here's the question, as you described the earlier image like that, 1:39:07.479 --> 1:39:10.800 if he's been the viewer previously in these visions, when 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:13.519 characters look back, we assume they're looking back at him, 1:39:13.840 --> 1:39:16.040 even though they're looking at us. Now he is looking 1:39:16.120 --> 1:39:16.479 at us. 1:39:17.560 --> 1:39:18.760 Is that you know? 1:39:18.840 --> 1:39:20.680 I think we talked about this in Stalker? Is that 1:39:20.880 --> 1:39:24.680 the point where Tarkowsky is now challenging us? What are 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:28.839 you going to do with this presence that's been presented 1:39:28.920 --> 1:39:31.320 to you? What is your response going to be? Is 1:39:31.400 --> 1:39:33.000 that what the poet is saying to us as the 1:39:33.080 --> 1:39:36.519 only viewers left? But also where is he now? Is 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:40.240 he in his memories? Is he in his visions? Because 1:39:40.360 --> 1:39:42.479 we both read it as that he has died in 1:39:42.640 --> 1:39:46.360 that pool. Yes, so thematically, there's so many possibilities. It's 1:39:46.520 --> 1:39:50.200 just as a composition of its own, it's a master work. 1:39:50.360 --> 1:39:53.240 Well yeah, just purely as a composition. You're exactly right. 1:39:53.760 --> 1:39:58.280 But I'm reading it as he is transcending whatever plane 1:39:58.320 --> 1:40:01.000 of existence he's on when he's in the pool, he 1:40:01.200 --> 1:40:05.720 is into another realm, whatever you want to characterize that 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:08.040 realm as, whatever name you want to put on it. 1:40:08.360 --> 1:40:11.479 I do associate it, I suppose, with a sort of 1:40:12.000 --> 1:40:15.400 heaven in the sense that it it seems to be 1:40:15.600 --> 1:40:19.080 based on how we can find parallels with the other 1:40:19.200 --> 1:40:22.920 imagery and with the dog there in the water and 1:40:23.040 --> 1:40:25.320 the home. It feels like it's his childhood home. It 1:40:25.360 --> 1:40:28.040 feels like it's that nostalgic, warm place. 1:40:28.120 --> 1:40:28.280 Now. 1:40:28.320 --> 1:40:30.439 I don't know what to do with the abbey and 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:33.560 what it's wrapped in, I really I don't fully, but 1:40:33.720 --> 1:40:37.200 it feels like it feels like it is comforting to 1:40:37.360 --> 1:40:40.080 him in that moment. Yeah, and so that's why I 1:40:40.400 --> 1:40:43.920 read that whole ending as as a positive thing from 1:40:43.960 --> 1:40:45.040 a faith perspective. 1:40:45.360 --> 1:40:48.799 And you have to also read these visions as memories 1:40:48.840 --> 1:40:53.160 of his childhood, right, because you know, I don't. I 1:40:53.280 --> 1:40:56.080 was wondering is this his wife that he's seen or 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:57.040 is this his mother? 1:40:57.400 --> 1:40:59.640 And of course that's a tricky could be both in 1:41:00.080 --> 1:41:00.599 different points. 1:41:00.680 --> 1:41:03.120 Yeah, in mirror there's a figure where it's the same 1:41:03.160 --> 1:41:07.000 actress plays the main figures ex wife and mother. So yeah, 1:41:07.400 --> 1:41:09.400 so that's hard to say, but I think I lean 1:41:09.560 --> 1:41:12.320 with you as these are memories of childhood, right, and 1:41:12.439 --> 1:41:15.640 a childhood home. And yeah, another thing I was going 1:41:15.720 --> 1:41:17.160 to point out, is you were in one of these 1:41:17.280 --> 1:41:21.800 visions the use of camera work. Here we have these 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:24.759 women figures, I think there's three of them, that they're 1:41:24.760 --> 1:41:26.760 looking at the camera and the camera is kind of 1:41:26.880 --> 1:41:30.639 tracking sideways across their faces. And this is a trick 1:41:30.680 --> 1:41:34.200 Tarkovsky has pulled in other films too, where an actor 1:41:34.320 --> 1:41:36.719 will look at the camera and then the camera slides 1:41:36.760 --> 1:41:40.200 past them to meet another actor. They must run behind 1:41:40.320 --> 1:41:44.920 the camera to position themselves in the scene. Further, so, 1:41:45.280 --> 1:41:48.280 as the camera continues to track, they reappear. And it 1:41:48.360 --> 1:41:50.439 seems that this goes back to the conjuring and the 1:41:50.479 --> 1:41:53.080 breaking of temporal space. We're like, wait a minute, how 1:41:53.120 --> 1:41:55.040 did they were just to my left? He does it 1:41:55.120 --> 1:41:59.599 with andre in Domenico's Dwelling too. Yes, yeah, it's such 1:41:59.680 --> 1:42:02.800 a suttle effective trick. And then in that same shot 1:42:03.160 --> 1:42:06.080 it comes to a still point and the horses in 1:42:06.160 --> 1:42:08.040 there and the dog is in there. I could have 1:42:08.160 --> 1:42:11.080 sworn to your question about the freeze frame. Somehow they 1:42:11.160 --> 1:42:14.800 managed to freeze frame the horse. So we see that 1:42:14.960 --> 1:42:17.760 the women either wind is blowing their hair or they 1:42:17.880 --> 1:42:20.600 move a little bit. The dog moves its position. But 1:42:20.720 --> 1:42:24.160 if you Notice the horse in the background has completely frozen. 1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:29.479 Why how Who knows? But the immediate fact is like 1:42:30.280 --> 1:42:32.880 we're in a time and space that you've never been 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:33.400 in before. 1:42:33.760 --> 1:42:36.920 Yeah, this entire film feels that way. You said that 1:42:37.680 --> 1:42:39.800 as you were setting this up, right, And there are 1:42:39.920 --> 1:42:43.599 no traditional sci fi elements. This isn't a science fiction film. 1:42:43.880 --> 1:42:45.800 It definitely is not, and certainly not in the way 1:42:45.840 --> 1:42:50.040 Stalker is or Solaris is. And yet you are in 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:52.920 all of these liminal spaces. The entire film is a 1:42:53.080 --> 1:42:56.439 liminal space. At one point. To go back to what 1:42:56.520 --> 1:42:59.519 you said too about time and space breaking down. Remember 1:43:00.560 --> 1:43:02.559 he thinks it's time for lunch, and she says at 1:43:02.640 --> 1:43:05.760 seven am. We have no sense we as viewers, the 1:43:05.880 --> 1:43:08.960 characters have no sense of what time it is. And 1:43:09.120 --> 1:43:11.000 yes I had in my notes. The camera pans left, 1:43:11.000 --> 1:43:12.559 and all of a sudden you're in a different place. 1:43:12.800 --> 1:43:16.000 The characters are in different places within the room, the 1:43:16.200 --> 1:43:19.960 fog coming in the way when the camera moves. You 1:43:20.080 --> 1:43:24.200 have characters who are in that water in the canal, 1:43:24.320 --> 1:43:29.000 and they're perfectly still. It feels like an alien landscape almost. 1:43:29.200 --> 1:43:33.760 You have missed oozing up from the ground, right, So 1:43:34.120 --> 1:43:36.200 there is something that feels alien about it, and you 1:43:36.280 --> 1:43:39.560 have to almost wonder, like in Stalker, what kind of 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:42.880 world are we in? Is this the world of the mind? 1:43:43.000 --> 1:43:47.759 Is it an imaginary place? Is it some kind of dystopia? Honestly? 1:43:48.040 --> 1:43:48.200 Is it? 1:43:49.040 --> 1:43:51.720 Who knows? It doesn't feel like the real world, even 1:43:51.800 --> 1:43:54.840 though there are aspects of it that feel very much 1:43:55.040 --> 1:43:58.160 like our everyday world. But all of the characters are 1:43:58.560 --> 1:44:02.120 fluctuating within it and within this time in space, which 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:06.360 is why when Tarkovsky breaks it in various ways and 1:44:06.560 --> 1:44:10.080 shocks us, it's so striking. One of those moments is 1:44:10.760 --> 1:44:17.479 when Eugenia goes into the church and that I don't 1:44:17.479 --> 1:44:20.000 know what you exactly call it, not a statue, but 1:44:20.160 --> 1:44:21.880 Mother Mary is before her. 1:44:22.160 --> 1:44:25.719 Yeah, they call it the Madonna of childbirth. I think childbirth. 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:29.400 And when when that woman kneels down in front of 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:33.840 her and the gown opens and those birds fly incredible, right, 1:44:34.000 --> 1:44:36.400 I mean, it's it's a it's a stunner. And as 1:44:36.479 --> 1:44:39.680 if that wasn't stunning enough, the next shot is the 1:44:39.760 --> 1:44:44.200 feathers from the birds cascading down, floating down on top 1:44:44.240 --> 1:44:49.160 of the candles. That that is also gorgeous, And then we. 1:44:49.240 --> 1:44:55.719 Get like that could happen, but it's tiptoeing towards things 1:44:55.800 --> 1:44:57.240 where you're like. 1:44:57.360 --> 1:44:58.960 How could that ever happen? Right? 1:44:59.160 --> 1:44:59.320 Right? 1:44:59.479 --> 1:45:01.559 So yeah, I guess if you want to use these words, 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:05.840 it's secular and spiritual colliding, which that collision seems to 1:45:05.920 --> 1:45:09.880 happen all of the time in these films. And then 1:45:09.960 --> 1:45:12.360 we get to the hotel, and I know, especially coming 1:45:12.439 --> 1:45:16.080 off of Stalker, this is kind of almost silly to say, 1:45:16.479 --> 1:45:20.080 but what filmmaker, and I'm gonna say even even better 1:45:20.160 --> 1:45:26.280 than Kubrick, what filmmaker uses rooms and uses doorways better? 1:45:26.720 --> 1:45:26.920 Yeah? 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:33.439 Ute uses doorways like their portals to other worlds all 1:45:33.560 --> 1:45:38.599 the time. They're constantly these imposing forces behind almost almost 1:45:38.640 --> 1:45:42.560 imposing forces behind characters. As they're talking, we feel the 1:45:42.680 --> 1:45:45.479 presence behind them, like they're they're drawing them in. Or 1:45:45.520 --> 1:45:47.120 what about that shot? I think it's when he's going 1:45:47.200 --> 1:45:51.639 into Domenico's home for the first time and he parts 1:45:51.720 --> 1:45:54.840 the doors. They're like barn doors that he parts, and 1:45:55.000 --> 1:45:57.519 when he does, what's on the other side black and white. 1:45:58.000 --> 1:46:00.799 He's going into a dream, He's going into a memory 1:46:01.120 --> 1:46:05.160 when he opens that door. That's that reality and fantasy 1:46:05.280 --> 1:46:08.960 or memory world. Directly, they're colliding with each other. But 1:46:09.040 --> 1:46:12.880 then when we go into the hotel, that room, that 1:46:13.080 --> 1:46:15.800 room that he is in, Josh with that bed in 1:46:15.880 --> 1:46:19.320 the middle and the light on the window and the 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:22.360 bathroom on each side of it. Here again, I'm gonna 1:46:22.360 --> 1:46:27.920 say nothing sci fi about it directly, and yet it 1:46:28.040 --> 1:46:30.200 almost feels like something out of two thousand and one, 1:46:30.760 --> 1:46:33.639 the way the bathroom is bathed in that white sterile light, 1:46:34.439 --> 1:46:39.120 and the way the rain is coming in through the window, 1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:42.599 and then of course talk about memory, world and reality 1:46:42.680 --> 1:46:45.040 clashing with each other. All sorts of weird stuff starts 1:46:45.080 --> 1:46:46.679 to happen over the course of that long shot. 1:46:46.880 --> 1:46:48.720 I think that shot, you know, if you wanted to 1:46:48.840 --> 1:46:52.400 give a shot to maybe explain Tarkowski, you might choose that, 1:46:52.560 --> 1:46:55.200 even though it's not quite as rivera as the final one. 1:46:56.200 --> 1:46:59.200 It's this art installation idea where he places the camera 1:46:59.560 --> 1:47:02.160 and lets the production design and the lighting. That light 1:47:02.240 --> 1:47:05.360 you described in the bathroom shifts a little bit, and 1:47:06.000 --> 1:47:08.880 I noticed this time the window to the left of 1:47:08.920 --> 1:47:11.920 the bed. It's raining outside, as you said, and the 1:47:12.000 --> 1:47:14.599 way it's raining on the wall beyond of the building 1:47:14.680 --> 1:47:17.360 beyond it kind of makes the paint of that building 1:47:17.520 --> 1:47:19.599 peel off and fall down. 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:22.120 So it's it's almost this, you know. 1:47:22.520 --> 1:47:26.960 Esoteric art piece. You're just watching shapes and colors change. 1:47:27.600 --> 1:47:30.519 And then the water is not only coming through the window, 1:47:31.200 --> 1:47:34.000 but it's seeping through the floor in a way. All 1:47:34.040 --> 1:47:36.240 of a sudden, there's a puddle by the bed, and 1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:38.080 then this is probably where you were going. 1:47:38.600 --> 1:47:42.439 But suddenly the dog who comes out of the shows yeah. 1:47:42.640 --> 1:47:45.400 And just it's the same dog from the black and 1:47:45.520 --> 1:47:49.240 white visions and calmly walks to the side of the 1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:51.240 bed and lays down. And I love how the poet. 1:47:51.880 --> 1:47:53.960 I think this is the touch that connects it to 1:47:55.000 --> 1:47:58.680 a temporal space, because initially we might be thinking, well, 1:47:58.680 --> 1:48:01.000 that's maybe another dog, what's going on? We're trying to 1:48:01.000 --> 1:48:04.880 stay in the real world. He just gently reaches out 1:48:04.920 --> 1:48:08.400 his hand and strokes the dog. So it's even though 1:48:09.200 --> 1:48:12.080 it shouldn't be there, he should be concerned about this. 1:48:12.600 --> 1:48:15.320 That links the dog not only because the same kind 1:48:15.360 --> 1:48:18.680 of dog, but to his memories. Because of his response 1:48:18.760 --> 1:48:21.840 to it. It's like he's drifting off now into this 1:48:22.040 --> 1:48:25.080 dream or this vision, and the dog has we've talked 1:48:25.080 --> 1:48:26.840 about the dog in stock or the dog has led 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:30.560 him there, or the dog represents in this case. In 1:48:30.680 --> 1:48:32.840 that case, you talked about how the dog represents this 1:48:32.960 --> 1:48:35.760 really happened because he came out of the zone. Here, 1:48:35.880 --> 1:48:39.839 the dog is like, well, something metaphysical is really happening, 1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:43.400 because I came out of the metaphysical into the real world. 1:48:43.560 --> 1:48:46.479 The dog almost brings him back into the scene, because 1:48:46.520 --> 1:48:50.679 the way it's lit, it feels like Andrea is sinking 1:48:50.920 --> 1:48:54.840 into the bed, into the darkness. He's disappearing, and you 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:57.840 feel like he might actually be disappearing, like some kind 1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:00.160 of magic act is happening as we're watching it. A 1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:04.240 couple of their small touches that I noticed throughout the marathon. 1:49:04.320 --> 1:49:06.920 We've referenced a few times, the birches. I think we 1:49:07.040 --> 1:49:10.879 both probably assumed that for them to be a recurring motif, 1:49:11.200 --> 1:49:15.240 that there had to be something in his childhood that 1:49:16.439 --> 1:49:20.679 he was fond of, and he liked to include that image. 1:49:20.720 --> 1:49:23.800 And we have a line here where a character says 1:49:23.920 --> 1:49:27.120 the birches. He loves the birches and the air of 1:49:27.280 --> 1:49:29.920 my childhood, so we must have grown up around them. 1:49:30.040 --> 1:49:33.160 There's a lot of autobiographical elements in all of his films, 1:49:33.479 --> 1:49:39.320 but here, like mirror. He even references the poet his father, Tarkovsky, 1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:42.920 so we have that. I think she's reading his poems, right, 1:49:43.120 --> 1:49:47.160 I believe I think Eugenia is reading Tarkovsky. I think 1:49:47.200 --> 1:49:49.320 we can take him at his word here this character, 1:49:49.400 --> 1:49:52.000 even though it is a character, that those birches are 1:49:52.040 --> 1:49:56.439 something from his childhood, and this is maybe even I 1:49:56.560 --> 1:49:59.200 was gonna say, maybe it's unintentional, but I don't think 1:49:59.479 --> 1:50:03.160 it is. It's just too good. I love when Domenico 1:50:04.120 --> 1:50:07.080 says to Andre when they're talking, Andre takes out a 1:50:07.080 --> 1:50:12.559 cigarette and Domenico says something like, I also smoke when 1:50:12.560 --> 1:50:15.120 I don't know what to say. And you realize how often, 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:18.439 even in movies, that's exactly what a cigarette is, right. 1:50:18.520 --> 1:50:21.280 A cigarette is such a perfect diversion. It allows you 1:50:21.360 --> 1:50:24.320 to buy time. That's how they function. When you don't 1:50:24.360 --> 1:50:26.639 know what to do, you don't know what to say, 1:50:26.880 --> 1:50:29.160 you can at least stall and light up a cigarette. 1:50:29.640 --> 1:50:33.439 And later after Eugenia has said on the phone to him, 1:50:33.960 --> 1:50:36.679 you know, I have a boyfriend. Now I have my man, Vittorio. 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:39.160 We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. There's a 1:50:39.479 --> 1:50:41.840 pretty good sense that that isn't that happy of a 1:50:41.880 --> 1:50:44.800 relationship anyway, just based on how that scene is shot 1:50:45.000 --> 1:50:48.400 and how cold it detached he seems. But what happens 1:50:48.439 --> 1:50:51.439 at the very end of that scene. The camera is 1:50:51.560 --> 1:50:55.320 fixated on her, but we know she's talking to him, 1:50:55.640 --> 1:50:58.599 and there's no sound, there's nothing coming from him whatsoever. 1:50:58.680 --> 1:51:02.360 He doesn't seem to really even notice her. And what 1:51:02.479 --> 1:51:05.160 does she say. She says, I'm gonna go out and 1:51:05.200 --> 1:51:09.360 buy some cigarettes, And it felt to me like a 1:51:09.439 --> 1:51:13.080 direct callback to that scene where it's her saying, clearly, 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:15.640 we have nothing to say to each other and all 1:51:15.720 --> 1:51:17.760 she can think to do is God and get some cigarettes. 1:51:18.920 --> 1:51:21.439 Yeah, she's really good throughout. She kind of fades away 1:51:21.479 --> 1:51:23.719 from the film a little bit in the middle section. 1:51:24.360 --> 1:51:27.320 But I think I'm not sure if we've mentioned Oleg 1:51:27.400 --> 1:51:31.320 Yankovski as Andre, This main character a really a hard part, 1:51:31.360 --> 1:51:35.120 I would think, to pull off where you're not responding much, 1:51:35.240 --> 1:51:37.920 so much of this is taking place in his head. 1:51:38.040 --> 1:51:40.800 Yet he you know, he's compelling enough on his own 1:51:40.880 --> 1:51:43.880 as this figure to hold our attention, our interests, and 1:51:43.920 --> 1:51:46.720 our sympathy, and especially he's able to pull off that 1:51:46.840 --> 1:51:49.240 long take at the end where it has to be 1:51:49.400 --> 1:51:52.880 all about his physicality and his perseverance. Right, he doesn't 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:55.960 say anything there. And then Dominico, who you were describing 1:51:56.000 --> 1:51:59.000 the holy fool here Eerlyn Josephson, who would later start 1:51:59.120 --> 1:52:04.519 in Tarkovski's The Sacrifice. Yeah, playing this somewhat wild character, 1:52:04.640 --> 1:52:07.679 but I also love you know, he's notorious, this character 1:52:07.760 --> 1:52:11.920 Dominico for having locked his family up years before. I 1:52:11.960 --> 1:52:13.519 think was it seven years today? 1:52:13.600 --> 1:52:14.120 Seven years? 1:52:14.320 --> 1:52:17.120 Yeah, seven years because it's unclear he thought it was 1:52:17.160 --> 1:52:19.519 the end of the world or was he just jealous 1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:21.840 because some man was looking at his wife and he 1:52:21.920 --> 1:52:24.679 didn't want her to be around men. But he locks 1:52:24.720 --> 1:52:26.479 his entire family up. We get a black and white 1:52:26.800 --> 1:52:30.840 flashback to when the family escapes the home, and that 1:52:31.160 --> 1:52:35.240 I think ties us more closely to Dominico as a 1:52:35.320 --> 1:52:38.920 sympathetic character and not just this raving lunatic so and 1:52:39.040 --> 1:52:41.960 Josephsin's performance, of course helps with that. And as you 1:52:42.040 --> 1:52:45.759 were mentioning the autobiographical stuff, just thought probably worth noting. 1:52:46.040 --> 1:52:47.920 And this is tied to the theme of motherhood we've 1:52:47.960 --> 1:52:51.080 touched on here and there. Clearly the Madonna of Childbirth 1:52:51.320 --> 1:52:53.479 statue sequence at the beginning is tied to that. But 1:52:53.560 --> 1:52:55.479 at the end of this film dedicated to the memory 1:52:55.520 --> 1:52:59.639 of my mother. So you know, clearly a primary concern 1:52:59.720 --> 1:53:04.320 of nostalgia is not only this general notion of motherhood, 1:53:04.720 --> 1:53:07.920 but specifically Tarkovsky's mother as well. 1:53:08.360 --> 1:53:13.000 Nostalgia is currently available vod My Tarkovsky rank list should 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:15.240 be coming in hot on letterbox. Do you already have yours? 1:53:15.280 --> 1:53:15.400 There? 1:53:15.520 --> 1:53:15.720 Yeah? 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:19.360 No, because I got to give some time with you know, 1:53:19.560 --> 1:53:24.200 having these it's tougher than it was before, and not 1:53:24.360 --> 1:53:25.800 just because now I've seen every film. 1:53:26.880 --> 1:53:29.640 We will have one more bit of Tarkovsky business to 1:53:29.720 --> 1:53:32.640 attend to when you get back from your trip. We 1:53:33.120 --> 1:53:35.560 have to share, as we conclude every marathon, we have 1:53:35.640 --> 1:53:39.439 to share our Tarkovsky Awards. We need a name. I'm 1:53:39.439 --> 1:53:41.000 gonna throw out the Birches. 1:53:41.439 --> 1:53:41.519 But. 1:53:43.800 --> 1:53:46.040 Yeah, it's I feel like that's kind of got to 1:53:46.040 --> 1:53:46.760 be the Holy Fool. 1:53:46.880 --> 1:53:48.560 It may have to be the Holy Fools, but you 1:53:48.640 --> 1:53:50.720 know what, We'll still take other suggestions, and if we 1:53:50.840 --> 1:53:53.920 eat our special category, it seems obvious to go with 1:53:54.000 --> 1:53:57.719 something like just even the single shot best image. 1:53:58.280 --> 1:53:59.640 Yeah, that might be. 1:54:00.240 --> 1:54:02.080 That might be a good one to kind of force 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:04.479 us to really narrow in. I mean, we've talked about 1:54:04.520 --> 1:54:06.560 water so much. It could be water image if we 1:54:06.720 --> 1:54:09.240 wanted to at least give ourselves some constraints, but a 1:54:09.320 --> 1:54:10.360 couple places we could go. 1:54:10.760 --> 1:54:13.480 Email us feedback at filmspotting dot net with your suggestions 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:15.200 and if you would like to learn more about this 1:54:15.360 --> 1:54:18.800 marathon or past marathons. I think this is our fifty first. 1:54:19.400 --> 1:54:22.880 You can visit filmspotting dot net slash marathons, Josh, that 1:54:23.080 --> 1:54:23.559 is our show. 1:54:23.800 --> 1:54:25.479 If you want to connect with us on social media, 1:54:25.520 --> 1:54:28.320 you can find Adam and the show at Instagram and 1:54:28.560 --> 1:54:31.880 Facebook and letterboxed. He's at film spotting. I'm at those 1:54:31.920 --> 1:54:36.200 places as well as Larsen on film We are independently produced. 1:54:35.880 --> 1:54:37.240 And listener support it. 1:54:37.360 --> 1:54:39.720 You can support the show by joining the film Spotting 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.320 Family at film spottingfamily dot com. That way you can 1:54:43.400 --> 1:54:46.520 listen early. You can also listen ad free. Sam puts 1:54:46.520 --> 1:54:50.600 out a weekly newsletter. We record monthly bonus episodes, and 1:54:50.880 --> 1:54:54.160 you can get access to the entire show archive. If 1:54:54.200 --> 1:54:56.800 you're interested in show t shirts or any other merch 1:54:56.960 --> 1:54:59.520 you could go to film spotting dot net slash. 1:54:59.400 --> 1:55:02.840 Shop in that Film Spotting archive lots so link later. 1:55:03.080 --> 1:55:05.240 Last year's hit Man nine to seventy, Apollo ten and 1:55:05.280 --> 1:55:07.960 a half, eight sixty seven, Where'd You Go? Bernadette seven 1:55:08.040 --> 1:55:11.760 forty one, Everybody Wants Some five eighty one. Boyhood. That 1:55:11.880 --> 1:55:15.200 was a film Spotting Fix episode dedicated just to Boyhood 1:55:15.560 --> 1:55:19.280 Before Midnight four forty nine, Bernie three ninety nine and 1:55:19.440 --> 1:55:24.400 more outstreaming this weekend. Fear Street prom Queen. The It 1:55:24.600 --> 1:55:28.280 girls are fighting to win prom Queen, but when someone 1:55:28.400 --> 1:55:32.160 new enters the race, others start to disappear without a trace. 1:55:32.520 --> 1:55:36.800 Susannah Soon from Red Rocket, Arianna Greenblatt from Barbie, Lily Taylor, 1:55:36.880 --> 1:55:41.560 and Katherine Waterston star also Fountain of Youth, treasure hunter 1:55:41.720 --> 1:55:45.080 John Krasinski and a strange sister, Natalie Portman, assemble a 1:55:45.200 --> 1:55:48.600 team for an adventure in search of the object the 1:55:48.800 --> 1:55:52.040 location of the title. We'll have to see or not, Josh, 1:55:52.120 --> 1:55:54.960 it's directed by Guy Ritchie on Apple TV plus. You 1:55:55.040 --> 1:55:56.880 can to fit that in before heading off to Japan. 1:55:57.240 --> 1:55:59.760 I mean sort of sounds like a plane movie, but 1:55:59.880 --> 1:56:01.640 I I don't know how the logistics of that work. 1:56:01.960 --> 1:56:04.880 I like Sam's note here, does this movie actually exist? 1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:09.360 Impossible to exactly now. I know you're curious about this one. 1:56:09.480 --> 1:56:12.240 Pee Wee as Himself, a two part documentary about Paul 1:56:12.360 --> 1:56:16.360 pee Wee Herman Rubens. That's on Max Yeah, very interesting Limited. 1:56:16.480 --> 1:56:19.560 You can see Jane Austen Wrecked My Life. An aspiring 1:56:19.600 --> 1:56:23.520 author finds herself in some austin Esque romantic entanglements at 1:56:23.560 --> 1:56:27.000 a writer's retreat. To be weird if they were Dostaievsky esque. 1:56:27.360 --> 1:56:31.280 Aaron Newarth, our friend says, a charming French romantic comedy 1:56:31.800 --> 1:56:35.280 out wide. Leelo and Stitch, the live action edition directed 1:56:35.320 --> 1:56:39.160 by Dean Fleischer Camp, who directed Marcel the Shell with 1:56:39.320 --> 1:56:44.120 Shoes on Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning is the big Dog. 1:56:44.200 --> 1:56:47.320 Though out this weekend, Tom Cruise has reckoned for the 1:56:47.440 --> 1:56:50.280 last time, or so we are led to believe. Next week, 1:56:50.520 --> 1:56:53.920 Michael Phillips is here. Am I The Final Reckoning and 1:56:54.040 --> 1:56:55.960 our top five movie stunts. 1:56:56.280 --> 1:56:58.640 Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Say 1:56:58.680 --> 1:57:00.920 I'm Van Haggren without saying m and Golden Joe, this 1:57:01.040 --> 1:57:04.280 show would it go? Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar 1:57:04.680 --> 1:57:08.160 Special thanks to everyone at wbeazy Chicago. More information is 1:57:08.200 --> 1:57:11.960 available at wbeazy dot org. For Film Spotty nine, Josh 1:57:12.040 --> 1:57:13.480 Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar. 1:57:13.720 --> 1:57:14.520 Thanks for listening. 1:57:14.800 --> 1:57:17.760 This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. 1:57:18.640 --> 1:57:38.040 Good fine, Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. 1:57:38.120 --> 1:57:40.280 But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in 1:57:40.320 --> 1:57:44.200 your life a gift, Well, midmobile is extending their holiday 1:57:44.240 --> 1:57:46.080 offer of half off unlimited wireless. 1:57:46.280 --> 1:57:47.240 So here's the idea. 1:57:47.520 --> 1:57:48.120 You get it now. 1:57:48.440 --> 1:57:50.640 You call it an early present for next year? 1:57:50.760 --> 1:57:52.720 What do you have to lose? 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