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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in armed now? No, Look, we're going

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Speaker 3: to do this thing.

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Speaker 4: We're going to have a.

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Speaker 5: Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar

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Speaker 5: and I'm Josh Larson.

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Speaker 3: So listen, here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: This is what we should do.

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Speaker 6: You should get off the train with me here in

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Speaker 6: Vienna and come check out the town.

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Speaker 2: What come on, it'll be fine.

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Speaker 7: Thirty years ago, Jesse met Selene on the train to Vienna,

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Speaker 7: and the rest is movie history.

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Speaker 5: This week, we spend a night and a day with

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Speaker 5: Ethan Hawks Jesse and Julie Delpy Selene as we revisit

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Speaker 5: both nineteen ninety five's Before Sunrise in two thousand and

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Speaker 5: fours Before Sunset.

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Speaker 7: And our Andre Tarkowski marathon concludes with nineteen eighty three's Nostalgia.

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Speaker 3: It's all ahead.

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Speaker 5: You're going to miss that plane, Josh.

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Speaker 7: I don't say that I actually have a plan to

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Speaker 7: catch on film spotting.

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Speaker 8: Just you man.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to film Spotting. It's a nice bit of coincidence

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Speaker 5: spotting this week, Josh, which we may get into more later.

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Speaker 5: We're closing out our Andre Tarkovsky Marathon with Nostalgia, and

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Speaker 5: we're embarking on a little bit of a nostalgia fest

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Speaker 5: ourselves by revisiting two films from our past. Two films

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Speaker 5: we love Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise and Before Sunset.

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Speaker 7: And Nostalgia for our film spotted Fest, which is only

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Speaker 7: a few months old.

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Speaker 5: That's right, exactly. Back in March, we closed the first

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Speaker 5: ever film Spotting Fest with a thirtieth anniversary screening of

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Speaker 5: Before Sunrise. That was that the Music Box in Chicago,

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Speaker 5: and that was pretty magically.

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Speaker 3: You're right.

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Speaker 5: I'm already reminiscing about that day. On a Sunday back

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Speaker 5: in March after the movie, critic Scott Tobias from the

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Speaker 5: Next Picture Show and The Reveal joined us along with

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Speaker 5: our producer Sam Van Halgren to talk about the film.

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Speaker 5: We'll share that conversation later in the show, along with

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Speaker 5: the conclusion of our Tarkovski Marathon. All that and Massacre Theater.

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Speaker 7: First, we're going to mess with the chronology a bit here.

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Speaker 7: I don't think link Later would mind. He has a

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Speaker 7: habit of doing that himself. Before Sunset it celebrated its

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Speaker 7: twentieth anniversary last year and we're revisiting it now as

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Speaker 7: part of our Pantheon project. This is our effort to

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Speaker 7: review every film in the film spotting Pantheon. And I

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Speaker 7: like how Sam is phrasing this here eccentricly assembled movie.

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Speaker 3: Hall of Fame. I think that's accurate.

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Speaker 7: And sounds sounds kind of nice. Before Sunset, along with

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Speaker 7: the other two films in the Before trilogy, was added

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Speaker 7: to the Pantheon back in twenty sixteen. That's when we

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Speaker 7: did our Top five Richard Linkletter scenes. Three of your

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Speaker 7: top five, Adam were from the Before trilogy, including two

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Speaker 7: from Sunset. I think I had two picks from this

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Speaker 7: trilogy in my top five. Before Sunset came to theaters

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Speaker 7: in June two thousand and four, nine years after its predecessor.

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Speaker 7: The movie went on to become one of the best

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Speaker 7: reviewed of the year. Unlike the first film, which was

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Speaker 7: written by Linklater and Kim Krizan, Sunset is credit I

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Speaker 7: did to stars Hawk and Delpy along with Linklater. And

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Speaker 7: although we may think of the first two films in

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Speaker 7: the trilogy as having similar structures, there's a couple walking

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Speaker 7: and talking over a single day or a night. In

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Speaker 7: the case of Before, sunrise before sunset is meant to

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Speaker 7: take place more or less in real time, basically the

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Speaker 7: ninety or so minutes before Hawk's Jesse, now married and

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Speaker 7: a successful author, is scheduled to catch his plane back

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Speaker 7: home from Paris.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear a clip. Look, I'm just so happy, all

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Speaker 3: right to be with you, I am. I'm so glad

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Speaker 3: you didn't forget about me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, No, I didn't, and it pisces me off. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you come here to Paris all romantic and married.

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Speaker 3: Getting screw you.

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Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to get you or anything.

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Speaker 9: I mean, all I need.

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Speaker 8: Is a married man.

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Speaker 1: And there's been so much water under the bridge.

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Speaker 9: It's not even about you anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's at that time, that moment in time that is

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Speaker 1: forever gone.

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Speaker 10: I don't know you say on that, but you didn't

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Speaker 10: even remember having sex, so sorry remembered.

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Speaker 8: He did?

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Speaker 11: Yes, women pretend things like that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know they do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what was I supposed to say that?

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Speaker 4: I remember the wine in the park and us looking

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Speaker 4: at the stars fading away as the sun came up.

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Speaker 3: We had sex twice, you.

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Speaker 5: Idiot, even though I was in full on pretentious film

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Speaker 5: guy mode in nineteen ninety five, or aspired to be anyway,

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Speaker 5: I couldn't claim to be a Richard linklater fan. I'm

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Speaker 5: not one hundred percent sure I knew his name at

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Speaker 5: that point. Growing up in Iowa, I definitely wouldn't have

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Speaker 5: seen Slacker yet. And even though I surely had seen

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Speaker 5: Days and Confused, I didn't know enough to know it

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Speaker 5: was great. I probably plucked the Before Sunrise VHS case

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Speaker 5: off the shelf of my local video store on the

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Speaker 5: strength of that sexy cover Ethan Hawk and Julie Delpy

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Speaker 5: facing each other, arms intertwined, and Hawk, who I remembered

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Speaker 5: from Explorers, loved in Dead Poet Society and may have

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Speaker 5: even enjoyed in Waterland when I was going through my

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Speaker 5: Jeremy Irons phase. Yes, dear listeners, I swooned over it.

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Speaker 5: In this age of endless IP, it's hard to imagine

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Speaker 5: anymore getting over protective about movies and the sanctity of

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Speaker 5: certain characters and stories. But when I heard that Link

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Speaker 5: later planned to make a sequel, I was shaken. On

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Speaker 5: one hand, by this point, I did know enough to

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Speaker 5: know that Days and Confused was great, and yeah, Before

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Speaker 5: Sunrise was brilliant and waking life blew my mind, so

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Speaker 5: Linklater had earned the credibility to go back to that

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Speaker 5: artistic well. Also, a major part of Before Sunrise's brilliance

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Speaker 5: is how much you enjoy just hanging out with Jesse

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Speaker 5: and Selene. Of course, I'll take any opportunity to spend

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Speaker 5: more time with them. On the other hand, Before Sunrise

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Speaker 5: was perfect, with an ending that was perfect. Why would

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Speaker 5: link Later risk ruining perfection? All my fellow gen xers

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Speaker 5: who were worried about George Lucas destroying their childhoods a

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Speaker 5: few years prior, well, Linklater was possibly about to destroy

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Speaker 5: this exer's young adulthood. The filmmaker frames the dilemma pretty

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Speaker 5: well himself and before Sunset in the opening sequence, at

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Speaker 5: the bookstore, Jesse, who has written about his personal experience

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Speaker 5: with Selene, just as link Later had transformed his personal

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Speaker 5: experience with a woman he met on a train traveling

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Speaker 5: through Europe, naturally gets asked the big question, do the

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Speaker 5: two characters get back together again in six months like

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Speaker 5: they promised each other, to which Jesse evasively but eloquently replies,

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Speaker 5: it's a good test, right if you're a romantic or

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Speaker 5: a cynic. The implication seems clear enough. If you believe

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Speaker 5: they met again in Vienna in six months, then you're

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Speaker 5: a romantic. If you believe they didn't meet, then you're

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Speaker 5: a cynic. I was sure they met again in six months,

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Speaker 5: but I was also sure that I was perfectly content

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Speaker 5: to let Jesse and Selene live on forever. In my imagination,

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Speaker 5: the possibility of that affair to remember future meetup was

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Speaker 5: satisfying enough, or so I thought, Josh, how did you

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Speaker 5: fare on the before test? Are you a romantic or

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Speaker 5: a cynic? And how grateful are you that Link Later

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Speaker 5: and Delpy granted us more time with these two.

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Speaker 7: Here's my level of cynicism, as best as I can

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Speaker 7: recall seeing this in two thousand and four is I

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Speaker 7: was less thinking about what I wanted, but thinking about

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Speaker 7: what is link later? What is the answer link later

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Speaker 7: is going to give in this movie that I'm currently

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Speaker 7: watching that's going to be satisfying. I was too much

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Speaker 7: in my own head and maybe not lost enough in

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Speaker 7: the characters' heads, despite having loved Before Sunrise. I think

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Speaker 7: at the time I was probably, you know, folding my

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Speaker 7: arms a little bit about the sequel question you know,

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Speaker 7: working at that point as as a film critic, and

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Speaker 7: also you know, just wondering why is Link Later someone

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Speaker 7: like Linklater doing this. But I do think the movie

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Speaker 7: must have won me over pretty quickly, because the lead

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Speaker 7: to my eventual review was when talk is an aphrodisiac

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Speaker 7: who wants the conversation to stop. So whatever skepticism I

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Speaker 7: had the movie overcame for sure. I think I still

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Speaker 7: probably did not appreciate it as much as I should

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Speaker 7: have at the time, and that's what made this revisit

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Speaker 7: so wonderful, and the knowledge that there's still a before Midnight,

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Speaker 7: which now I want to revisit again and likely discover

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Speaker 7: that I underestimated that one, even though I liked it,

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Speaker 7: but far less than these two installments. The first two installments. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: they pull off something of a miracle here, and they

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Speaker 7: do it so lightly, so seemingly effortlessly. Yet when you

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Speaker 7: watch this conversation unfolding over these ninety minutes closely, you

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Speaker 7: realize how intricate and strategic it is, and how it

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Speaker 7: shifts and ebbs and flows in ways that I imagine

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Speaker 7: improvisation was involved. But I think there had to be

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Speaker 7: long discussions among the three of them about the superstructure

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Speaker 7: and the journey that they want these characters to go

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Speaker 7: on over the course of before sunset, and then just

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Speaker 7: laying out how they're going to shift from one step

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Speaker 7: to the other, and then maybe allowing the improvisation to

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Speaker 7: get them there. But this is something of a miracle

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Speaker 7: in the way they make it flow so naturally, rooted

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Speaker 7: in the same characters we know so intimately, and achieve

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Speaker 7: something so monumental and complete and cohesive coming down to

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Speaker 7: this perfect ending as well.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, that was that was my.

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Speaker 7: Memory of my first encounter with it, and even appreciating

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Speaker 7: it at the time, now realizing I underestimated it at

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Speaker 7: the time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, how about that not only pulling off the miracle

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Speaker 5: of making another masterpiece, and I think it is after

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Speaker 5: making one with the first film, but another perfect ending,

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Speaker 5: which is what happens here.

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Speaker 7: Even a better ending, maybe even a better ending.

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Speaker 5: And I realized this time too, it's the exception to

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Speaker 5: the rule of sequels, which is and I'd forg this.

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Speaker 5: I hadn't seen this film, I think since twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 5: that's at least the last time I logged it. That

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Speaker 5: was in preparation for before Midnight. I had forgotten that

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Speaker 5: early on in the film we see flashbacks, we see

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Speaker 5: cuts back to the first film, and that is a

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Speaker 5: dead giveaway with sequels that if they're cutting back to

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Speaker 5: footage from the first film, then you know it's a disaster.

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Speaker 7: Let me tell you. After having just come out of

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Speaker 7: Final Reckoning a few days before, to be reminded that

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Speaker 7: this was an element in before Sunset, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 7: boy or boy, yeah, but so lenage to even redeem that, I.

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Speaker 5: Know, link later again just proving all those conventions wrong.

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Speaker 5: But it really isn't by accident. It is all in

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Speaker 5: the structure. And can I just say I love that

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Speaker 5: there's a moment and I didn't clock where it exactly happens,

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Speaker 5: but maybe it's about twenty minutes in on their walk

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Speaker 5: they have not hit I think it's still before they

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Speaker 5: finally hit the cafe that that Selene is ragging Jesse

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Speaker 5: to where they're going to sit down and talk. After

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Speaker 5: they've left the bookstore and they're talking, and finally Jesse

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Speaker 5: just stops and says, you know, this is surreal. This

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Speaker 5: is surreal that we're talking after all this time. And

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Speaker 5: I love that the movie takes that beat, because for

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Speaker 5: every one of us who have waited nine years to

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Speaker 5: see these characters get back together, Surreal's the only way

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Speaker 5: to describe it. We're feeling the same way those characters

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Speaker 5: are right to see them back together having these kinds

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Speaker 5: of conversations.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and confronting that is not just a meta element

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Speaker 7: either reverberating the audience's desires. It's also how that conversation

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Speaker 7: had to go, because this was not Jesse and Celine

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Speaker 7: until they get to the point of brutal honesty, dropping

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Speaker 7: off facads and just going at it. And this is

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Speaker 7: another thing where watching this again and I'm looking up

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Speaker 7: as you were talking, and I think I did revisit

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Speaker 7: it for that list as well. Last time was about

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Speaker 7: a little over ten years ago, but I had forgotten this.

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Speaker 7: It starts a little shaky here for me at least,

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Speaker 7: and it's a rough start maybe for any of us

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Speaker 7: who thought Jesse was a bit pretentious in Before Sunrise,

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Speaker 7: because we open just on him people fawning over him

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Speaker 7: at his book signing as he waxes philosophical and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 7: oh boy, this is like, this is like the worst

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Speaker 7: of Jesse, and we're leading.

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Speaker 3: With this but it's all a setup.

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Speaker 7: It's all a setup, I believe, because it's making us

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Speaker 7: realize that when Selene shows up, we see how integral

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Speaker 7: she is to who he is, and that this is

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Speaker 7: the magic of these movies. It's who they are together

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Speaker 7: that is what matters. What is what these films are about.

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Speaker 7: It's that chemical space between them. It's not about either individual.

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Speaker 7: She You know, she starts to she's nice about his

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Speaker 7: book release and everything, but also starts to call him

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Speaker 7: out on his BS, but she also appreciates the dreamer

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Speaker 7: who's behind the b right. She brings out the best

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Speaker 7: in him, he brings out the best in her. He

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Speaker 7: calls her on some of her bs. And then you see,

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Speaker 7: here's the other element. The way he looks at her

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Speaker 7: gets us to fall back in love with him. So

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Speaker 7: I really think that link later is setting us up

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Speaker 7: by shoving Jesse in our face in the beginning.

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Speaker 3: And maybe you.

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Speaker 7: Know, some people are more positive on him than others,

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Speaker 7: and maybe it's not an issue for them, but at

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Speaker 7: least for me, kind of setting me up for not

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Speaker 7: and then reminding me of what the magic of these

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Speaker 7: movies are about. And it's that honesty that you were

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Speaker 7: getting to Adam when they their connection reignites when they

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Speaker 7: get to the question of if either one of them

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Speaker 7: went to the meeting spot. Right, these who have never

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Speaker 7: been about niceties or pleasantries. It's about honesty. And yet

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Speaker 7: here's where I'm talking about the ebbs and flows and

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Speaker 7: the rhythms. So brilliant to have that moment come early

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Speaker 7: on after the pleasantries. But then brilliant also picked them

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Speaker 7: backing their way into it, right with him saying he

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Speaker 7: did show up, then confessing you know when she says

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Speaker 7: she didn't, Oh, no, he didn't either, and then admitting

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Speaker 7: he did. Think of the mini drama.

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Speaker 3: Over that to get to that truth.

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Speaker 7: Because until they get to that truth, they're not Jesse

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Speaker 7: and Celine. Yet that's when they become they are.

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Speaker 5: No, that's when the movie really takes off. With ever that,

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Speaker 5: let me take a few things you said, and I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna take it maybe a little bit further, because this

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Speaker 5: was the revelation for me, if you will, maybe too

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Speaker 5: strong of a word, but I'm gonna go with it

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Speaker 5: for now. I didn't rewatch this movie back in twenty

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Speaker 5: sixteen for the link later scenes list. I did in

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Speaker 5: twenty thirteen again for midnight, And at that time I

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Speaker 5: chalked up the conceit of the film to Jesse stalling.

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Speaker 5: You know, I wrote on letterbox in twenty thirteen, I

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Speaker 5: said it in twenty sixteen. During that top five, is

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Speaker 5: it me or are Jesse's repeated attempts to delay his

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Speaker 5: trip to the airport the equivalent of the knights gamesmanship

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Speaker 5: in the seventh Seal, a condemned man's maneuvers to stave

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Speaker 5: off death by prolonging the sublime. He just keeps saying, right, oh,

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Speaker 5: fifteen more minutes now, I'll just take you here. We'll

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Speaker 5: just go here. He's just trying to keep it going.

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Speaker 5: And something struck me this time, Josh. What clued me

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Speaker 5: in was the fact that early on there's multiple references

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Speaker 5: to time and not being late and you got to

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Speaker 5: catch your plane, all before they've even kind of stepped

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Speaker 5: out of the bookstore. And she knows this, and yet

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Speaker 5: they're talking about where they're going to go for coffee,

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Speaker 5: and she says, I've got a spot and I don't

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Speaker 5: know if she says it's nearby, but she says, you know,

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Speaker 5: I've got a spot I want to take you to.

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Speaker 5: And they start walking, and they must walk for a

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Speaker 5: half an hour, right, And so that of course could

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Speaker 5: be link later and Hawk and Dealthy being a little

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Speaker 5: bit cheeky, and I wouldn't put that past them, but

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Speaker 5: I think it does connect to what was the revelation

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Speaker 5: for me, and what I think might tie to what

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Speaker 5: the answer was in some way as you were getting

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Speaker 5: at for link later, what made it interesting? What made

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Speaker 5: it interesting for him to collaborate specifically with Hawk and

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Speaker 5: with Delpy on and before anyone listening to this thinks, really, Adam,

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Speaker 5: this is a revelation. You didn't pick up on this before,

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Speaker 5: I'll just say I think this may have been my

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Speaker 5: third viewing of the film. Only the second time was

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Speaker 5: back in twenty thirteen, and in twenty thirteen, I wasn't

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Speaker 5: watching it to discuss it. I was just prepping for

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Speaker 5: before midnight. I was just refreshing myself. Also film spotting

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Speaker 5: Pa Sophie Kempenar already chastised me. I got up the

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Speaker 5: next morning all eager to share with her what I

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Speaker 5: learned watching the film again, because she loves these films

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Speaker 5: and actually had just been in Paris and followed all

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Speaker 5: these steps took all of the picture she could from

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Speaker 5: all of the places they go to. And here was

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Speaker 5: her response, I'm a better film critic than you. This

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Speaker 5: is before sinset one oh one. Wow, harsh kids say

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Speaker 5: the regardest things. Okay, there is a major structural difference,

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Speaker 5: and it's not just the temporal aspect, the real time

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Speaker 5: or more real time approach, and I think it does

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Speaker 5: change the overall experience of the two movies. And it

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Speaker 5: goes back to what you're saying in terms of the

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Speaker 5: reversal of the setup a little bit. Jesse really does

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Speaker 5: drive the first movie. Yes, of course the first movie

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Speaker 5: is great because of their honesty and that Delpy doesn't

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Speaker 5: feel like she's playing second fiddle. But Jesse is the

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Speaker 5: one who gets her off the train, who makes the

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Speaker 5: first move, who does initiate most of the conversations and

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Speaker 5: what happens here. Selene drives the second one. She drives

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Speaker 5: this movie. She picks him up at the bookstore. She

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Speaker 5: essentially gets him to leave the train. Otherwise he's just

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Speaker 5: getting in the car and going to the airport.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 5: She gets him to wander around Paris and Josh, she

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Speaker 5: initiates almost all of the conversations. He is a responder

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Speaker 5: largely in this movie. So, especially if you were someone

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Speaker 5: who thought he was a little pretentious in the first film,

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Speaker 5: you probably do prefer this movie. And he is. I

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Speaker 5: had this same thing in my notes. Jesse Ethan Hawk

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Speaker 5: is largely relegated, and I don't think this is a

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Speaker 5: bad thing at all. I like the different dynamic between

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Speaker 5: the two films. He is largely relegated to being a

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Speaker 5: watcher in this movie, and that is fine because we

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Speaker 5: got plenty of his pontificating in the first movie. Delpy

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Speaker 5: is also so good and so incisive, and he is

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Speaker 5: such a good listener. Also, the way he watches her

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Speaker 5: is romantic as hell, which is how the movie ends,

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Speaker 5: of course too, in that very sexy romantic exchange between them,

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Speaker 5: where except for one word or two words, that two

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Speaker 5: word phrase that he has, otherwise he's just looking at her.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, And there's there's a structural reason for that, for

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Speaker 7: that shift, but there's also a psychological emotional one, you know,

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Speaker 7: because he's vulnerable here by admitting that he went back

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Speaker 7: and that he's the romantic. He can try to play

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Speaker 7: it off and she can try to play it off too,

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Speaker 7: But it has revealed that he opened himself up more

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Speaker 7: than she did. Bottom line, whatever the circumstances were, her

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Speaker 7: grandmother's death and that, you know, it's it's all understandable.

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Speaker 7: This isn't sane. One of them made the right decision,

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Speaker 7: one of them made the bad decision, but he is

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Speaker 7: now the more vulnerable one because of how things played out.

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Speaker 7: And I think that's part of what's going into the

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Speaker 7: dynamic as well. You know, as you were talking about,

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Speaker 7: you know, time and the considerations of time, which is

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Speaker 7: a huge linkinator thing, but just how it plays out

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Speaker 7: in this I just want to throw in also about

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Speaker 7: the ending the great Nina Simone song, it's actually a cover.

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Speaker 7: She's you know, singing a jazz standard that's been on

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Speaker 7: stage and in movies before.

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Speaker 3: She covered it. Just in Time is the name of that.

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Speaker 7: Stuff, of course, and I looked up the lyrics just

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Speaker 7: out of curiosity.

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Speaker 3: Just in time.

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Speaker 7: You found me, just in time before you came. My

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Speaker 7: time was running low.

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Speaker 4: Before you came, I was lost.

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Speaker 7: So the first the first two stanzas time mentioned three times,

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Speaker 7: it's you know, clearly probably why it was chosen. It's

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Speaker 7: also musically perfect for the moment and Delpi's performance in

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Speaker 7: that moment. Since you touched our performance, let's go there,

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Speaker 7: and I'm going to start at the ending because I'm

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Speaker 7: here now. It's not only that it's seductive. But let's

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Speaker 7: go back a little earlier, a few moments earlier, where

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Speaker 7: she's playing her waltz. I think she calls it this

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Speaker 7: waltz for him.

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Speaker 5: It's that's how great is that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

396
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Speaker 7: And she's on the guitar, and you know, I think

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Speaker 7: what I love about that little bit is that you

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Speaker 7: see she's doing it for him, And there are moments

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Speaker 7: where she'll look up at him and kind of self

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Speaker 7: deprecatingly laugh.

401
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Speaker 3: But there's also nice.

402
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Speaker 7: Little moments in the performance where she gets lost in

403
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Speaker 7: the music. You can tell like she's no longer thinking

404
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Speaker 7: about him in these two seconds. She's thinking about how

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Speaker 7: much she's enjoying doing this musical performance, and what does

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Speaker 7: that point to. She's an artist too. This is related

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Speaker 7: to the kind of shifts in the dynamic from the

408
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Speaker 7: first film to this one. Listening to this again, maybe

409
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Speaker 7: an obvious observation, we'll see if Sophia has something mean

410
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Speaker 7: to say to me, But listening to her lyrics, you

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Speaker 7: realize this waltz is her version of Jesse's book. He's

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Speaker 7: written this book all about their relationship. She has been

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Speaker 7: true to her nature, quietly alone in her apartment writing

414
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Speaker 7: a song she will probably never perform to anyone else

415
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Speaker 7: about her experience of their relationship because it is about

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Speaker 7: someone who she, you know, basically missed out on or

417
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Speaker 7: there was a fleeting moment, and that's that's her version

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Speaker 7: of the book. So Delpy is wonderful in so many

419
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Speaker 7: different registers in that final sequence, and then she just

420
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Speaker 7: gets some great saline moments throughout because she gets, you know,

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Speaker 7: more of the dialogue here in a sense I love

422
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Speaker 7: one of my favorites might be I'm not getting angry,

423
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Speaker 7: I'm not getting angry. Spitthead him twice, which is, you know,

424
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Speaker 7: just kind of sums.

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Speaker 3: Her character up in so many ways.

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Speaker 7: But she's she's wonderful, He's great, She's wonderful. Together, there's

427
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Speaker 7: something even better.

428
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Speaker 2: Let me sing you I owes.

429
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Speaker 3: Out of nowhere, out of my thoughts.

430
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Speaker 2: Let me sing you O oldes.

431
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Speaker 8: About this one night stand.

432
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Speaker 2: Well, for me, that night.

433
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Speaker 9: Everything I always drammed.

434
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Speaker 7: On in line.

435
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Speaker 5: What I love about that is I did register the

436
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Speaker 5: bit of performance that it is. But I didn't make

437
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 5: the connection back to the fact that he wrote a book,

438
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 5: and this is sort of her version of that. And

439
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 5: the reason that I registered the act of performance is

440
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 5: I looked at my top five link later scenes. Sam

441
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 5: had referenced it in our script notes, and so I figured, well, man,

442
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 5: now that I've rewatched the movie, did I make the

443
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 5: right choices? And we'll get to One of my choices

444
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 5: was probably here in a little bit. My number two

445
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 5: choice was that ending and baby, are you going to

446
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 5: miss That plane? Which followed my number three choice, which

447
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 5: was from before Sunrise where they do that whole fake

448
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 5: phone call thing with each other. It's all about acting

449
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 5: and performance where they finally get to say what they

450
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 5: really are thinking about each other, but they get to

451
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 5: do it under the guise of performance because they are

452
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 5: sort of playing a role even though they really are

453
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 5: being themselves. So there is that connection or that link

454
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 5: between the artifice and what they're really exposing about themselves

455
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 5: in the two films. I had never fully noticed this before, Josh,

456
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 5: and it might be a really minor thing, but that

457
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 5: last line here, I am again I think being a romantic,

458
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 5: and I realized that maybe I need to temper it

459
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 5: again and maybe not go full blown cynic, but just

460
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 5: temper the romanticism a little bit. I always took that

461
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 5: last line, baby, you're going to miss that plane as

462
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 5: full on I'm not letting you go. You know you're

463
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 5: not leaving. We both know we're meant to be together,

464
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 5: and this is the romance of our lifetimes and our dreams,

465
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 5: and we finally found each other again after nine years.

466
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 5: Is in everything great? And I realized with Delpy's line

467
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 5: delivery that you at least have to keep open the

468
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 5: interpretation that it's just a statement of fact that at

469
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 5: this point, baby, you're going to miss that plane, that

470
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: he is almost certainly going to miss that plane, and

471
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 5: the door, the door for him leaving is at some

472
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 5: point is still open literally and metaphorically. And I love

473
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 5: that there is that possibility dual meaning.

474
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 7: Well, there's she has a level of defense before just

475
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 7: coming out and saying it that you're going to miss

476
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 7: that plane. I want you here, we want we should

477
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 7: be together. Because she delivers that line as part of

478
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 7: her Nina Simone impersonation, she's not delivering it as Selene.

479
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: That's right.

480
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 7: Conversation that is allowing them to be honest, but in

481
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 7: the guise of performance. I think I read this similarly.

482
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 7: She's being honest, she wants them to miss that plane,

483
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 7: she wants them to stay romantically, but she's still buffering

484
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 7: it with performance. There's just a little bit of safety there.

485
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 7: She's you know again, how she's maybe distinct from Jesse.

486
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 7: She's not allowing herself to be as vulnerable as she

487
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 7: could by delivering the statement in that way.

488
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 5: M hm, I love too. This is another thing I

489
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 5: never really paid attention to. The shot and the scene

490
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 5: right before they arrive, right before they get a to

491
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 5: the apartment, the deliberation, the care that link later takes

492
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 5: that they take. The performers as they walk up the stairs,

493
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 5: that spiral staircase seems to take forever, and there is

494
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 5: a sense of anticipation. There is a sense of anxiety

495
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 5: too though, because I think they both they both know

496
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 5: that they don't know what they're about to get themselves into.

497
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 5: We don't know, and they are not aware fully of

498
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 5: where this could take them. But I think they fundamentally

499
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 5: get that once they cross sort of a threshold, that

500
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 5: threshold being the door into her apartment, who knows where

501
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 5: this could lead? But it's a place from which they

502
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 5: maybe can never fully come back from. And I just

503
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 5: the way you watch Hawk with his sort of wide

504
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 5: eyed he almost looks like a kid, but there's also

505
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 5: the kid on Christmas morning, but also a little bit

506
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 5: afraid of what he's getting into. You see it all,

507
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 5: and it's just a single steady cam shot that follows

508
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 5: them up the stairs. It's really beautiful.

509
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 7: It's to me a direct callback to one of my

510
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 7: favorite link later scenes from before Sunrise, the listening booth,

511
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 7: because what it is built upon are them taking turns

512
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 7: looking at each other when the other one is not

513
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 7: and looking away, and each note hits what you're describing,

514
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 7: the hesitancy and the excitement. There are smiles and then

515
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 7: there are smiles that suddenly fade. They do catch eyes,

516
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 7: but not the entire time. They're not locked. And that

517
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 7: exact back and forth is what happens in the Listening

518
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 7: Booth in a very similar situation. It's where they're considering

519
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 7: how serious is this? In that listening booth, they're asking

520
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 7: themselves the same question in this staircase. And there are

521
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 7: a couple other callbacks, or at least one other couple

522
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 7: instances of a particular callback. I know we've talked about

523
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 7: the touching, yes, or almost touching. I want to go

524
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 7: Leen's hair in before sunrise, we talked about, you know

525
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 7: how this is possibly stolen when we sense watched and

526
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 7: discussed Agnes Vardis Clay from five to seven and Clo

527
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 7: and Antoine that happens with them. I think it's on you. No,

528
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 7: it's on the tram here and before sunrise where Jesse

529
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 7: tentatively reaches out for Selene's hair and then takes his

530
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 7: hand away. I love the moment where they're walking up

531
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 7: some stairs and these leaves are falling around them. It's

532
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 7: kind of like an outdoor staircase, and he reaches out.

533
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 7: I rewounded a couple times, and I almost wonder if

534
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 7: it's improvised, because he reaches out and it looks like

535
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 7: a leaf maybe is falling behind her head, and you

536
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 7: can't tell if he knocks it away or grabs it

537
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 7: or just pulls his hand back. But then she does it,

538
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 7: so now it becomes here. We're back to the dynamic

539
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 7: flipping in the car. Near the end, she reaches out

540
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 7: to just touch his head but stops. So just a

541
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 7: lovely callback to one of this series's loveliest moments.

542
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 5: Yes, and that really stood out to me this time.

543
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 5: That was my number five. I referenced it earlier. My

544
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 5: number five was the car scene link later scene. I

545
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 5: was fine until I read your effing book. And what's

546
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 5: so great about that scene is partly that that's where

547
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 5: it really does get real. They're being honest with each

548
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 5: other in different ways. It builds throughout, but it builds

549
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 5: to this scene where they both get brutally honest with

550
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 5: each other, where the emotions come out. Remember, she at

551
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 5: one point really wants to get out of the car.

552
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: He has to almost restrain her from getting out of

553
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 5: the car. Right.

554
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 7: I think it's where she's her most vulnerable. It's why

555
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 7: it gets so real is now she has put herself

556
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 7: in the same position he was when he admitted he

557
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 7: came back and tried to.

558
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 5: Be Yeah, and at one point, I think earlier in

559
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 5: that scene, he almost touches her to try to comfort her.

560
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 5: It's not quite the gesture that she's going to make,

561
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 5: and it's not quite the gesture he makes that everyone

562
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 5: remembers from before Sunrise. But then after he finally exposes

563
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 5: his vulnerability and reveals how rough his life is at

564
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 5: the moment. That's when she reciprocates, reciprocates the uster from

565
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 5: across almost a decade now and across movies to before

566
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 5: Sunrise and Josh, what stands out about that is that

567
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 5: it's not just link Later being clever and going well,

568
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 5: Jesse did it in the first movie, So Selene's gonna

569
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 5: do it here. Of course she's the one who's doing

570
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 5: it here. She's the one who is driving the entire film.

571
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 5: She's the more active, dominant presence. It makes sense that

572
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 5: she would be the one who would almost comfort him

573
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 5: in that moment. But there's more. Remember his line earlier

574
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 5: in the film, and I'll just say this too. There

575
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 5: is something I had also kind of put in the

576
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 5: back of my brain about this film, thinking about it

577
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 5: as purely romantic, even though knowing that there were moments

578
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 5: of brutal honesty. There is a certain melancholy and bittersweetness

579
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 5: that they bring up over and over again about the

580
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 5: nine years they lost. I didn't really latch onto that,

581
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: but that is real this why didn't we do this?

582
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 5: And that regret those nine years being gone? And Hawk says,

583
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 5: not too long before the scene in the car, if

584
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 5: somebody would touch me, I would dissolve into molecules. That

585
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 5: sign that then raises the stakes when she almost touches him. Right,

586
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 5: it's not just that that it's reversed and that she's

587
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 5: the one. It makes sense would do that as the

588
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 5: dominant presence. But what if she does touch him there.

589
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 7: Well, they have and they have that hug, and she

590
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 7: asks him, doesn't she are you dissolving her something along?

591
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 5: She calls back to it. She does. I wanted to

592
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: ask you this or bring it up, and I'll throw

593
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 5: it out to the listeners too, because I just ran

594
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 5: out of time at the last minute, and I guess

595
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 5: it's kind of silly to bring up something that I

596
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 5: could just answer myself. But doesn't before Sunrise end with

597
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 5: kind of a lovely little montage of the different locations.

598
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 7: Visiting the travel Yeah, so here's another reversal.

599
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 5: Doesn't before on set actually begin with hitting the spots

600
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 5: that they go to. It's like it's foreshadowing. It's setting

601
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: you up rather than looking back, which is lovely. And

602
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 5: what clued me into that was I saw that they

603
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 5: go to the cafe. I saw the sign of the cafe,

604
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 5: and I started to realize oh, some of these spots

605
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 5: are familiar, and of course those are the spots they

606
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 5: end up going to. So something about the camera they're

607
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 5: telling us ahead of time link later cluing us in

608
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 5: ahead of time, as if this stuff maybe was almost

609
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 5: faded in some way and laid out before us. Just

610
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 5: seems so perfect, especially with all the conversations they're having

611
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 5: about time and everything happening sort of simultaneously.

612
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, a nice touch and also a nice counter to

613
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 7: how this movie ends, which is then a fade to

614
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 7: black as action is still taking place, but it now

615
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 7: becomes private.

616
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: You know.

617
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 7: It's like we we need to leave them to be

618
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 7: together now, and this movie needs.

619
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 5: To end another nice little flourish And this is what

620
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 5: all clothes on that bookstore moment when they ask him

621
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 5: a question about what he's working on next, and Jesse

622
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 5: goes off on this thing he'd always had wanted to write,

623
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 5: and he's waxing about how time is a lie and yeah,

624
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 5: and the pop song, the pop song. Everything's happening within

625
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 5: that moment somehow. But Josh, it really is a beautiful

626
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: thing that I never fully hear again put together that

627
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 5: he's narrating this story and what he's saying, is all

628
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 5: his life is just folding into itself, and it's obvious

629
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 5: to him that time is a lie, that it's all

630
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 5: happening all the time, and inside every moment is another moment,

631
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 5: all happening simultaneously. And at that moment, he's saying that

632
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 5: is when he sees her, And so he's having this

633
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 5: moment where he's thinking about a book that he might

634
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 5: write at some point, but it's also a book that

635
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 5: he's thought about many times throughout his life. He's seeing her,

636
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 5: which is happening in the present, but then he's probably

637
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 5: potentially thinking about, who knows, a future, a future with

638
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 5: her that might even just be the next twenty minutes

639
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 5: of them reuniting. But then he's thinking about the night

640
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 5: they had nine years ago, and we always thinking about

641
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 5: that because of course he is. But also Link later

642
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 5: shows us those memories in his head. All of it's

643
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 5: happening simultaneously, time collapsing in that moment.

644
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I like how she's you know, she's almost

645
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 7: a vision there standing there where you do, which I

646
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 7: think almost He does a little double take.

647
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: Is she really there?

648
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 7: Is this really like she's somehow transported through time? To

649
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 7: be there, even though it's completely logical that she is.

650
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 7: I said, I was going to close there. But two

651
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 7: other just really quick things.

652
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 5: At the beginning of Before Sunrise, they have that Mary

653
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 5: couple that gets into a fight with each other, and

654
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: then here you have Ethan Hawke saying that line about

655
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 5: the couple being divorced at fifty two. And it's just

656
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 5: interesting to think about those two encounters that exchange at

657
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 5: the beginning of Sunrise and that line here in Sunset

658
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 5: as we look forward to what may happen in Before Midnight.

659
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 5: The other thing that is a totally random aside, but

660
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 5: it just kind of strikes me as hilarious. And I've

661
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 5: mentioned this one time on the show before. You may remember, Josh,

662
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 5: that I discovered pretty randomly actually that back in twenty

663
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 5: seventeen or something, PBS did a documentary about Richard Linklater

664
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 5: looking at his career up to that point, and I

665
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 5: found out that, unbeknownst to me, they used audio from

666
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 5: the early days of sinecast that you can hear my

667
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 5: voice in Sam's voice in this documentary. They don't ferent

668
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 5: cynecastory thing. It's just part of a montage. But Sam

669
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 5: has a couple lines. I have one line, and we're

670
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 5: just dogging link Later, right, So I'm getting ready to

671
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 5: watch before Sunset, and of course I'm doing what most

672
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 5: of us do. Now, I'm about to bring it up

673
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 5: on some VOD platform and then I go, wait a second,

674
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 5: I have the Before Trilogy on Criterion. I should put

675
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 5: the disc in. I watch it, and then I think, well,

676
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 5: I've got the Criterion disc. I wonder what the bonus

677
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 5: features are. I go to the supplements. The first supplement

678
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 5: is this PBS documentary. Oh no, And I go, wait

679
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 5: a second, are you kidding me? Is this no? Is

680
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 5: this the thing? And I start fast forwarding through it,

681
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 5: and there it is. At the seventy one minute mark,

682
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 5: they're at the point where they're they're doing this montage,

683
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: this really quick montage talking about how link Later was

684
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 5: at this point in his career where he was kind

685
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 5: of unbankable. He'd had some movies that weren't making money

686
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 5: and critics weren't big on them, like Bad News Bears

687
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 5: and Fast Food Nation. Though ironically I liked Fast Food Nation.

688
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 5: I think Sam did too. And there it is. I'm

689
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 5: finally on a Criterion collection disc. I'm featured not so featured.

690
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 5: But you know what I mean. I'm included in a

691
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 5: criterion collection disc of one of my all time favorite films,

692
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 5: and it's me insulting the filmmaker because I'm tearing down

693
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 5: the bad news bears. That not really fair, but there

694
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 5: it is to hot then Before Sunset is currently available

695
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 5: VOD on most platforms and in that shrink wrap Criterion

696
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 5: collection edition of the Before trilogy you have in case

697
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 5: of emergency.

698
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 7: Listening is the number one thing you can do to

699
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 7: support an independently produced show like film Spotting. There are

700
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 7: a couple more things you can do. You can take

701
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 7: a minute to give us a rating or a review

702
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 7: on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Doesn't matter if you're a

703
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 7: first time listener or have been listening for twenty years.

704
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 7: Every new review helps us reach new listeners. Another way

705
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 7: to support us the Film Spotting Family. At film spottingfamily

706
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 7: dot com, we want to thank family member Susie in

707
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 7: Saint Paul.

708
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 5: Susie writes she's been listening for years. Her favorite review

709
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 5: or segment Top five movies with beaches or did I

710
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 5: Dream That Not a Dream? Josh Episode eight thirty four,

711
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 5: Top five beach scenes inspired by m Knight Shamlan's Old,

712
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 5: which it says we did not review, but I don't

713
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: remember doing that Top five. I feel like you talked

714
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 5: about Old and maybe maybe you had a guest.

715
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 3: There might have been a guest.

716
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 7: Yes, I know I've reviewed it, and I think I've

717
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 7: talked about it on the show.

718
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 5: A review we got wrong. You didn't get it wrong.

719
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 5: But watch Josh O'Connor in God's Own Country and you

720
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 5: will be enthralled.

721
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 7: We believe we do. Can we just do a Josh

722
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 7: O'Connor Mini mariyth. I feel like there's a handful we

723
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 7: need to catch up with both of us.

724
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 5: There are listeners around the world right now. Fist pumping,

725
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 5: I hate you said that. A favorite that she revisited recently,

726
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 5: Twelve Angry Men, a random film she loves, Scorsese's After

727
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 5: Hours movie she credits with becoming a sinophile. I think

728
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 5: this is one for a lot of people out there.

729
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 5: Cinema Paradiso, and a book about movies that she loves,

730
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 5: Get Happy, The Life of Judy Garland. Thank you, Susie

731
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 5: for being part of the family and for all those

732
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 5: years of listening. In addition to keeping us doing what

733
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 5: we're doing. Your support comes with perks. You get to

734
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 5: listen early in ad free, you get our weekly newsletter,

735
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 5: you get exclusive opportunities like being part of the Film

736
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 5: Spotting Family discord, and you get access to our monthly

737
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 5: bonus shows. We did just drop in the feed our

738
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 5: quarterly Film Spotting Advisory Board meeting and coming very soon

739
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 5: the May bonus show that we just recorded our draft

740
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 5: with Madness Bracket contest winner Ricky Kendall, directors who are

741
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 5: no longer with us, which was a blast.

742
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: A lot of fun.

743
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 7: I think we mostly came away happy everyone, all of us.

744
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,959
Speaker 3: I feel like a.

745
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 7: Recent draft went that way too. We've got to pick

746
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 7: a more contentious topic for our next drive, maybe so

747
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 7: we get some anger going.

748
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 5: You can learn more about joining the Film Spotting Family

749
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 5: at Filmspotting Family dot com.

750
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: Our lives are the sum of our choices. This is

751
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: we're calling your destiny.

752
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 5: I have no regret ansession you. That's from the trailer

753
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 5: for Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning, which comes to theaters

754
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 5: this weekend. We do plan to have a review of

755
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 5: that on next week's show, but not with you, Josh,

756
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 5: because you will be off in Japan with your lovely

757
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 5: bride of how many years at this point are you

758
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 5: here to share?

759
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 7: I mean it long enough that it sounds very strange

760
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 7: for you to say bride, But yes, I don't.

761
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 5: That's why I asked you to clarify.

762
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 7: Debbie and I have been married for thirty years. So

763
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 7: we're doing it big and spending about two weeks in Japan. Really, Actually,

764
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 7: the truth is I was not allowed to be on

765
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 7: this show because I really strongly disliked the Final Reckoning.

766
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 5: I was going to say, you have a reckoning with

767
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 5: this installment of the Mission Impossible franchise.

768
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: I hope, I hope. You know it seems mixed.

769
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 7: So I'm hoping either you or Michael do go for

770
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 7: it and have a good debate about it, because I

771
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 7: know there are big fans of the series that this

772
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 7: one did still work for.

773
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 5: We will see. My guest host will be Michael Phillips

774
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 5: from the Chicago Tribune. Along with a review of The

775
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 5: Final Reckoning, we will share our top five movie stunts.

776
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 5: That's a tie in with the Mi films, of course,

777
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 5: but also with the recent ish announcement that the Oscars

778
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 5: will be including a best Stunt category starting with the

779
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 5: twenty twenty eight ceremony. Here's where I'm at, Josh, right now.

780
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 5: I recently posted in the film Spotting discord what is

781
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 5: a movie stunt? What qualifies learn? Are the parameters?

782
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Oh man?

783
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: Are their technicalities?

784
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 7: You're lost in the weeds already.

785
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 5: I'm already lost in the weeds.

786
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: You know.

787
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 5: Does it have to be a human who's involved? Are

788
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 5: we allowed to think of them as stunt sequences? Or

789
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 5: is it a single event? It's tough.

790
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 7: You're gonna have to get back to me on that,

791
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 7: or I'll just listen on my flight back.

792
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

793
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 5: Also, next week, results from the current Film Spotting poll.

794
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 5: We're asking you to choose the single greatest actor or

795
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 5: actress from the last twenty five years currently in the lead.

796
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 5: Apparently people were swayed by my choice the number one

797
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 5: overall pick from our draft of the actors of the Century.

798
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 5: You can vote in that poll and leave a comment

799
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 5: at film spotting dot net, and if you would like

800
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 5: to check out our schedule of future shows, visit filmspotting

801
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 5: dot net slash episodes. Josh, you're out for two weeks.

802
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 5: You're also going to have a meetup with a good

803
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 5: group of film Spotting listeners in Japan, which will set

804
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 5: the record for the farthest flung film spotting meetup congract.

805
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 7: Wait, yeah, it's gonna be in Tokyo and we have

806
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 7: I thought, what are the chances do we have anyone there?

807
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 7: At least ten folks have signed up to join us,

808
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 7: So yeah, we'll definitely be reporting back on that or

809
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 7: follow us both on Instagram and I'll be sure to

810
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 7: put up some pictures.

811
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 5: If you go to film Spotting dot Net slash episodes,

812
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 5: you'll see that after Michael, Aisha Harris is going to

813
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 5: join the show really fun show plan with her Clueless

814
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 5: for its thirtieth anniversary, and our top five movie quotes.

815
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 5: Movie quotes in our lexicon like the phrases that we

816
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 5: actually use or have used regularly in our lives. So

817
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 5: it might be a lot of inside jokes and we'll

818
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 5: just look at each other with blank faces like we

819
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 5: don't know what you're referencing.

820
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 7: We'll see your family's and close friends will get a

821
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 7: kick out of it, so that's all that matters.

822
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 5: That's exactly right. Again, that's Film Spotting dot Net Slash Episodes.

823
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 7: Quick note about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show

824
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 7: looking at cinemas present via its past. It is part

825
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 7: two of their Less than Hero pairings. So they're discussing

826
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 7: the latest MCU installment, which is getting been getting pretty

827
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 7: good reviews Thunderbolts. Previously they discussed nineteen ninety nine's Mystery Men,

828
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 7: so they'll really do some of the compared and contrasting

829
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 7: on this new latest episode. You can find those every

830
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 7: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Time now for Massacre Theater,

831
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 7: where we perform a scene and you get a chance

832
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 7: to win a film spotting prize. Last time we massacred.

833
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: This scene, I believe the most likely outcome will be

834
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: our collective demise, not if we strictly follow the rules

835
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 3: of time travel.

836
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 10: It means no talking to our past selves, no betting

837
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 10: on sporting events.

838
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stop you right there, Scott.

839
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,919
Speaker 10: Are you seriously telling me that your plan to save

840
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 10: the universe is based on.

841
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 3: Back to the future? No good.

842
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: You have me worried there, because I'd be worship That's not.

843
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 3: How quantum physics works, Tony.

844
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 11: We have to take a stand.

845
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 10: We did stand, and yet here we are. I know

846
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 10: you got a lot on the line, got a wife,

847
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 10: a daughter, but I lost someone very important to me,

848
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 10: A lot of people did, and now now we have

849
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 10: a chance to bring her back, to bring everyone back.

850
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: And you're telling me that you won't need this, right.

851
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 7: Scot, I will speaking of the MCU that was Robert

852
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 7: Downey Junior and Paul Rudd, as well as a few

853
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,439
Speaker 7: others who we didn't perform. The scene comes from twenty

854
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 7: nineteen's Avengers Endgame, written by Stephen mcpheeley and Christopher Marcus,

855
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 7: directed by Anthony and Joe Russo.

856
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 5: That massacre was part of our Top twenty five Films

857
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 5: of the Century show a couple of weeks back. Endgame

858
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 5: did not make either of our lists. In fact, not

859
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 5: a single MCU film made our list. Josh, so, why

860
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 5: that scene? Well, of course, listeners have answers.

861
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 7: Here's Dylan dom in Blair, Nebraska, the highest grossing movie

862
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 7: of the century, paired with the best.

863
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 5: Robert Gibbons in Kaysville, Utah. Has a good answer. The

864
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 5: connections are one, it is the top grossing or one

865
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 5: of the top grossing movies in the last twenty five years,

866
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 5: which ties into your best of lists. Yeah, And two

867
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 5: you found a way to bring back the movies that

868
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 5: were destroyed in film spotting Madness, just like the Avengers

869
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 5: brought back the people snapped by Thanos.

870
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 7: Indeed, here's Addison Alley from Salt Lake City, Utah time heist.

871
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 7: I am expecting a brimming infinity go let of answers

872
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 7: for this Avengers Endgame scene, a movie that was actually

873
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 7: so good for its time that it retroactively made people

874
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 7: believe the MCU had been nothing but masterpieces before that point,

875
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 7: and prospectively mediocre and terrible. The charm of scene massive

876
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 7: Superhero team ups has since faded, But g boy, howdy

877
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 7: did this work in twenty nineteen?

878
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 5: And here's Michael Rosch in New York, New York. Of course,

879
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 5: the scene is from that obscure little film Avengers Endgame,

880
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 5: the tie in besides the obvious oversight that kept the

881
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 5: film off. Both Adam and Josh's Top twenty five of

882
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 5: the last twenty five years include the MCU's own meta

883
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 5: look back. Also, Downey Junior won an Oscar last year

884
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 5: for a film by Christopher Nolan, a director who showed

885
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 5: up on both of your lists. I also believe you

886
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 5: renamed Scott Lang Peter as a nod to Paul Rudd

887
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 5: being in the newer Ghostbusters films. Peter, of course, was

888
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 5: Bill Murray's character, and you opened the show on a

889
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 5: Murray monologue from Lost in Translation. Funny that didn't we

890
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 5: go with Peter because we were just thinking about I

891
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 5: love you man.

892
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 7: I think that's a and Spider Man and Peter Parker.

893
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 7: But but yeah, this works just as well.

894
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 5: That works actually the best. We'll go with that, Michael.

895
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 5: Thank you. Josh, go ahead and reach into that pretty

896
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 5: brimming film Spotting hat and pick out this week's winner.

897
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 7: Our winner is Dave Allen from Parts Unknown, who yeah

898
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 7: joins in with the Thunderbolts praise, saying here, I'm not

899
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 7: sure if you guys are planning to watch a review Thunderbolts,

900
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 7: but I think it's the best Marvel movie since shan Che.

901
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 5: How about that, Dave. We don't know where you're from,

902
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 5: but we will if you send us your address, get

903
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 5: you a film Spotting t shirt or a film Spotting

904
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 5: tote bag, or a trial membership to the Film Spotting Family.

905
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 5: Email us feedback at film spotting dot net.

906
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: How did I come to this?

907
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 10: Not again?

908
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: Five natural one? Look at me? I want to say

909
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: that stupid line one more time.

910
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 5: We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre

911
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 5: or a Theater. I'm gonna give everybody a hint, because

912
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 5: I don't think the hat's going to be very brimming.

913
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 5: We're apparently obsessed with this movie here on Bone Spot.

914
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna leave it out.

915
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 7: In a little last minute research, we appear to have

916
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 7: done a scene from this film about a year ago.

917
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 3: So there's a clue for you.

918
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 7: We didn't discuss this beforehand, but we need to swap

919
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 7: in a name here in your last line.

920
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: Do we want to go with?

921
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 5: I got one?

922
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: Okay, you got one? All right, We're gonna go surprise

923
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 3: me there.

924
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 5: I think I think that this is potentially another hint

925
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 5: if people are really paying attention, I.

926
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 7: Was actually going to suggest the same thing, okay, on

927
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 7: the same page, on the same page there, and also here,

928
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 7: I'll give another hint. If you have already listened or

929
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 7: will soon listen to our film spoting family bonus episode

930
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 7: about a draft of dead directors. This title, I believe

931
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 7: is mentioned the film. Your absolute comes up quite a bit.

932
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 7: We'll say that, okay, okay, I think we'll hopefully we've

933
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 7: dropped enough our performances will be of no help at all.

934
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 5: They will be of no help. And I am going

935
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 5: to point out that I have once again been typecast.

936
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 3: I mean this that or it's your your strength. Well, no,

937
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 3: it's not your strength. We could just you're just.

938
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 5: We could go with that. Okay, I'm gonna start it off.

939
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 5: You're gonna give me the action and action. Oh but

940
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 5: you have that look, dear, I can always tell now

941
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 5: you haven't been doing anything foolish. M m, well, I

942
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 5: do hope you've forgotten all about that silly little plan

943
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 5: of yours, which one about blowing up the White House.

944
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 7: Oh ma, I was only fooling. Besides, what would the

945
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 7: president say?

946
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,479
Speaker 5: You're a naughty boy, Sasha. You can always make me laugh.

947
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 5: Now get shaved before your father gets home.

948
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: Wow, and see, man, I don't know it is.

949
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 5: Maybe it is a position of strength.

950
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 7: If you add giggling, I think it becomes a position

951
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 7: of strength.

952
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 5: Nicely do if you know what film we just massacred,

953
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 5: email the movie's title and your name on location to

954
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 5: feedback at film spotting dot net. The deadline is Monday,

955
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 5: junifverse Robert Downey Junior last week, This this week, range

956
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 5: course the winner randomly from all the correct entries and

957
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 5: announce it in a couple of weeks.

958
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: Ring ring, ring, Ring, Ring, ring, Pick up, pick up

959
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 2: the phone. Hello, Hello, ven Selina, Seva bien et.

960
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 5: Shows that quiet.

961
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 10: I've been working on my English recently.

962
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 4: You want to talk in English?

963
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 6: Just for laughs?

964
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that's a good idea.

965
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm going to be able to make

966
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: it for lunch today.

967
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 7: Selene and Jesse again, this time in nineteen ninety five's

968
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 7: before Sunrise. We revisited Sunrise just back in March. That

969
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 7: was part of Film Spotting Fest. We closed out those

970
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 7: wonderful three days Adam with a sold out Sunday morning

971
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 7: screening at Chicago's Music Box, and then after the screening,

972
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 7: we hauled ourselves back up on stage. You and I

973
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 7: were quite exhausted, but we leaned on producer Sam and

974
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 7: critic and friends Scott Tobias to talk about the film.

975
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: Here is that audio.

976
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 5: We're excited to have Scott Tobias, our friend from the

977
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 5: Next Picture Show podcast and from the Reveal, joining us

978
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 5: to talk about, as you heard, one of my all

979
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 5: time favorite movies before Sunday. Scott, thanks for joining.

980
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: Us thanks for having me. This is great.

981
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 12: And look at all these people stick it around for

982
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 12: your Q and I like a bunch of sickos.

983
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 3: Yep.

984
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 5: Funny I mentioned Friday Night with Ryan Johnson. You know

985
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 5: how Brick is one of these films where it's all

986
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 5: taking place in high school and there's one cell phone

987
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 5: in the movie, and how different the movie would be. Now,

988
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 5: this is the ultimate pre cell phone movie, right, pre

989
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 5: social media film.

990
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 12: I think you'd have to in order to I was

991
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 12: thinking about that, and I think the only way to

992
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 12: make it work is if they both somehow drop their

993
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 12: cell phones into the Danube, and then I think maybe

994
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 12: you could have this work.

995
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 7: You do wonder how do the kids meet these days?

996
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 7: Like if they don't carry around books that you can say,

997
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 7: what are you reading? It's like what are you looking

998
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 7: at on your phone while someone's dancing?

999
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, hey, yeah.

1000
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,479
Speaker 5: So, before we dive into the movie a little bit further,

1001
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 5: we've been talking to all of our guests about kind

1002
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 5: of this is the twentieth year of the show, right,

1003
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 5: so reflecting a little bit and want to share with

1004
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 5: the audience our relationship actually to you, Scott, and I

1005
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 5: guess we'll get it a little bit, your relationship to us,

1006
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 5: but your tenure with the AV Club give us the

1007
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 5: years just so we can kind.

1008
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 12: Of I met my longtime partner and friend and editor

1009
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 12: and current cohort Keith Phipps in nineteen ninety seven at

1010
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 12: a junket for Goodwill Hunting and Scream two. I was

1011
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 12: in college graduate school, and he was working for the

1012
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 12: AV Club. He was part of what was a skeleton

1013
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 12: crew of three at the time, working out of Madison,

1014
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 12: and they were just starting up the Chicago edition and

1015
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 12: needed somebody to do the local part of that. I

1016
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 12: did not get that job, but I did start freelancing for.

1017
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: Them, and they came up in nineteen ninety nine.

1018
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 12: Was there I think until two thousand and twelve or

1019
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 12: twenty and fourteen, I can't remember. And then we started

1020
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 12: the Dissolve together, which lasted for a couple of years

1021
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 12: through Pitchfork and now we have The Reveal, which is

1022
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 12: their newsletter.

1023
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1024
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 5: So between ninety seven and two thousand and five when

1025
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 5: our show started, all three of us are reading the

1026
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 5: AV Club, reading Keith reading Tasha Robinson reading you, and

1027
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 5: we're thinking about, man if we could ever get guests

1028
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 5: on the show. Would we ever get a guy like

1029
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 5: Scott Tobias to pay attention to us? Honestly, that what

1030
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,479
Speaker 5: we thought undred percent, And I think you were maybe

1031
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 5: the second ever guest host that we had. You actually

1032
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 5: said yes and came on the show, but even before that,

1033
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 5: you listened to the show to decide whether or not

1034
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 5: you thought it was worth it, and then you wrote

1035
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 5: something very lovely about us in the av Club that

1036
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 5: we had no idea was coming, but for us back

1037
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 5: in six whenever it was, it was very validating. So

1038
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 5: thank you. It was.

1039
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 12: It was great, and I have to say you reached

1040
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 12: out to me at first, I think when it was

1041
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 12: cinecast and I was like, what is this I'm not

1042
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 12: gonna do, And so it was, you know, just a

1043
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 12: matter of you listening to the show and being completely

1044
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 12: blown away by how good the discussion was, the quality

1045
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 12: of the production, the quality of the insight, and of

1046
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 12: course it was something I was happy to recommend and

1047
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 12: then join for as a guest episode about Knocked Up.

1048
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: I believe was what we.

1049
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 5: Thought right, Sam was off you join joined me for

1050
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 5: that one twenty fifth anniversary. We'll sit down and have

1051
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 5: a conversation. We'll devote an entire panel just to the

1052
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 5: legal dispute that caused us to change our name to

1053
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 5: film Spotting, because I know everyone dying to hear that.

1054
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 5: But yes, we did start as sinecaster first one hundred episodes,

1055
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 5: so before Sunrise. What was your relationship to it at

1056
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 5: the time that came out. Tell us about your first experience.

1057
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 12: It's really kind of perfect because I am the same

1058
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 12: age as the characters in the movie. I think Selene

1059
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 12: says she's twenty three. I think that would have been

1060
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 12: when I saw it. I was one year out of school.

1061
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 12: It was kind of towny at that point in Athens, Georgia,

1062
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 12: and I saw the movie at a screening at college,

1063
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 12: like at college screening, and at the time link latter

1064
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 12: was extremely exciting. This was, you know, because yes, Slacker

1065
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 12: had come out while I was an undergrad, like it

1066
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 12: was ninety three.

1067
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: Was days to confused.

1068
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 12: You didn't mention, of course, I wasn't aware of his

1069
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 12: actual first film, which is what the uh?

1070
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: You can't learn to plow by reading books.

1071
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 12: But in any case, I was a bit of a

1072
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 12: ethan hawk skeptic at the time, but I was completely

1073
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 12: wowed by the movie and extremely moved by it, and

1074
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 12: I remain so this was powerful to see, and it's

1075
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 12: extraordinary to me that the sequels exists. That was one

1076
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 12: of those people where it was like, Oh, there's going

1077
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 12: to be another Before Sunrise movie.

1078
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 2: I think ten years later I was like, no, what

1079
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 2: are you doing.

1080
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: This is a horrible idea.

1081
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 12: Then, of course it turns out to it was not

1082
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 12: a horrible if anything, if anything at least is going

1083
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 12: to be even better than this one.

1084
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: So but I feel like, you know, I've grown with it.

1085
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I really appreciate.

1086
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 12: About the film is that it is such a chronicle

1087
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 12: of a specific moment of a person's life. They have

1088
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 12: to be this age in order to have this kind

1089
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 12: of experience, in order to have that impulse to get

1090
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 12: off the train, in order to really engage not just

1091
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 12: in each.

1092
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 2: Other, but the idea of doing this, I think, is

1093
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 2: very specific.

1094
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 12: To that time and where they are in their lives,

1095
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 12: and this is a film that captures that feeling so intensely.

1096
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 5: I think I just saw it on DVD or VHS,

1097
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 5: maybe even at the time in ninety five, I had

1098
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 5: to wait. It was not coming to my small town

1099
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 5: theater in Iowa.

1100
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 2: What was your experience, guys.

1101
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it was definitely a college movie.

1102
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 7: I was in college at the time, so would have

1103
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 7: seen it then, And you don't remember liking it, but

1104
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 7: probably having a little of that hawk skepticism even though

1105
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 7: so reality bites you were saying, Adam was just before,

1106
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 7: right just before.

1107
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 3: And which I liked.

1108
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 7: But it's kind of, you know, you look at him

1109
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 7: kind of like she does in this movie, a little

1110
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 7: askance at first, even though you are mesmerized by what

1111
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 7: he's saying. And so it's probably a movie that I

1112
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 7: warmed up to. But I think that's the right relationship

1113
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 7: to have with this film. As wonderful as it is

1114
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 7: to see at a young age, it's when you're maybe

1115
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 7: a little closer to that couple on the train that

1116
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 7: this movie starts to kind of burrow deeper. And it was,

1117
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 7: you know, maybe not until I don't know, I'm teem

1118
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 7: viewing for when we talked about it. For some maybe

1119
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 7: it was one of those top five lists. I looked

1120
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 7: at it again, Adam, but realizing you, does she know

1121
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 7: when she gets up to move away from them, that

1122
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 7: in twenty years, you know, before midnight, you know that

1123
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 7: she's going to be playing a variation of that scene

1124
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 7: with him. So spoiler sorry for those who are just

1125
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 7: seeing this the first time, like a.

1126
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 5: Love little journey to go on everybody, Yeah, we promise.

1127
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 7: All that to say is it's a movie that's wonderful

1128
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 7: if you see it at you know, thirteen or whatever,

1129
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,919
Speaker 7: but you're gonna love it a lot lot more down

1130
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 7: the road.

1131
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: When did you see it?

1132
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: So, so I would have been twenty. It came out,

1133
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: you said, a limited release in the summer, so I

1134
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: think I had kind of an ideal viewing. It actually

1135
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: did come to the small theater in my town in

1136
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: central New Hampshire, in the Lakes region, and probably it

1137
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: was a lovely, you know, summer evening, and my mom

1138
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: and I went to see it together. So I just

1139
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, what I was thinking is I

1140
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: was here, is like, this is a film I've seen

1141
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: many times, but something was missing all of you, right,

1142
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: just like Delpy says, there was something special about seeing

1143
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: it here, deeply moving and of course you can't extract

1144
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: this from the entire before enterprise at this point, the

1145
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: three films and what they meant. I think the last

1146
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: time I saw it was maybe right on the heels

1147
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: of midnight, and I was thinking about it before this morning.

1148
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: You know, if any of us are in relationships that

1149
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: are at all stable, happy, however you want to talk

1150
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: about it, maybe the last emotionally risky thing we did

1151
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: was initiate that conversation, that first date with the people

1152
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: we're still with, right and this movie, and we'll get

1153
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: into maybe our favorite moment, so I'll save it next.

1154
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: But this is a movie all about those moments of

1155
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: taking little leaps, of embracing that risk. And so what

1156
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: it makes you think, you know, more than what makes

1157
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: it special as a movie is make it and how

1158
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: you end up reflecting on your life, My life at twenty,

1159
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: life at you know, at nearly thirty, at in my forties,

1160
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: and that's what makes this whole thing such a special thing.

1161
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, for all you non gen xers out there, all

1162
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 5: you kids, you know, congrats on your youth, but you

1163
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 5: you didn't get to have Jesse and Saline mark the

1164
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 5: stages of your life the way we did, right, And

1165
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 5: I really do value that and feel that that's that's

1166
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 5: something really special. You set us up, Sam, I think

1167
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 5: we should we should talk about it. There are so

1168
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 5: many great moments to choose from. We did do a

1169
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 5: top five link later scenes. We should have just done

1170
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 5: scenes from this trilogy, and maybe we can revisit that

1171
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 5: at some point. What's your favorite moment in the film,

1172
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 5: What is your favorite scene? We can kind of go

1173
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 5: down the road same did one? Did one stand out

1174
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 5: this time? Is it different than what maybe you thought

1175
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 5: it was going to be going in?

1176
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: There are three and a right to not scenes moments,

1177
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: So these are moments, and these are all wordless moments.

1178
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: And I realized, actually very late that what made me

1179
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: be able to take in these moments is that there's

1180
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: no score. There's music, but no score. In fact the harpsichord.

1181
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: I was like, oh there is a score. No, no,

1182
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: it's a real harpsichord the garden apartment. So there are

1183
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: three moments and they all capture what I was getting

1184
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: at the terror of encountering the real Oh shit, this

1185
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,439
Speaker 1: is real life. And the first moment is when Jesse

1186
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: decides to first say something to Suline, and there I

1187
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: don't think it's my imagination. There's a subtle push in

1188
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: of the camera right before he says something, so you

1189
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: see the choice he makes and It's like, these are

1190
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: the moments where you can't not be sincere. This is

1191
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: such a gen X movie. Sincerity was not something we

1192
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: were great at. We didn't love that still are.

1193
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 12: So.

1194
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: So there's that moment and you see it on his face,

1195
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: and again the camera really helps with that. There's that

1196
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: little push in the listening booth scene. Obviously great.

1197
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 5: So you're gonna take all of it.

1198
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take the scene. I'm not gonna take

1199
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: the scene. I'm just gonna There is a moment, so

1200
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: the music starts. God, what a great scene. God, But

1201
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: there is a moment the music started. As soon as

1202
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: we hear her voice, Selene is startled. There's a moment

1203
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: where she almost shakes because it's the voice again is

1204
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: singing with such sincerity that I think it wakes her

1205
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: up to the reality of the moment. And and we've

1206
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: all felt that that little shiver of what music can

1207
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: do and being in that moment with somebody. The third moment,

1208
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: right before the kiss, it's right before the first kiss.

1209
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: They're on what what is that called that they're on?

1210
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: It's like a it is a fairis wheel, Okay, it

1211
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: has a European name, probably but it's very famous.

1212
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 2: It's the way from the third man.

1213
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: Oh sure, right, of course, the moment right before they

1214
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: actually kiss, there's been that whole great exchange about like,

1215
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, he's trying to make it cute. You see

1216
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: on his face. There's no other word for it. It's terror.

1217
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: He's like, this is real, We're really doing this, this

1218
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: is meaningful. And again, the lack of score. I think

1219
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: a score would erase those moments or your ability to

1220
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: connect with those moments. It's so nakedly exposed and they're

1221
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: so good at capturing it. Those are my three favorite.

1222
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 5: Moments between she talks about later you need it, and

1223
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 5: the music would ruin that great, great film.

1224
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, lack of score.

1225
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 7: I'm going to talk about moments where there's lack of

1226
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 7: dialogue and there's an irony there with you know, Linklater,

1227
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 7: who is such a verbose filmmaker in so many great ways.

1228
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 7: But when we did our you mentioned ad on top

1229
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 7: five Ethan Hawk moments. This was episode six ninety six.

1230
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 7: I picked on the tram that early moment where he

1231
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 7: tentatively reaches out to fix Salim's hair and then stops

1232
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 7: himself because it's the pause for me.

1233
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: That's romantic.

1234
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 7: It's the it's the acknowledging of where we are right

1235
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 7: now and we're not there. And so I'm going to pause.

1236
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 7: And we when we did uh just talk about our

1237
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 7: Pantheon review Adam of Cleo from five to seventh of

1238
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 7: ARTI film, we were talking about how that extended tram

1239
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 7: scene between the two of them, there is, you know,

1240
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 7: obvious inspiration for this tram sequence.

1241
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: So and the Palm Reader, did you guys think of

1242
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: that too? That's right, the Palm Reader, which is opens

1243
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: ives of seven.

1244
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 3: Start to the Power. Yeah, yeah, I forgot about that.

1245
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 5: Sam.

1246
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 7: That's good, and so the other one. And I have

1247
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 7: the receipts for this, so I'm claiming this and I

1248
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 7: can prove it. Sorry, Scott, but we did link later

1249
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 7: scenes on five to eighty one. My number one all

1250
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 7: his filmography, listening Booth.

1251
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 3: It's the listening booth.

1252
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 7: And it's again no words, a word, one word. You're

1253
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 7: begging that no one says a word, because one word

1254
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 7: from two of them would ruin that.

1255
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 3: And the way we're allowed to read into their reactions.

1256
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 7: I don't know if there's any interviews that talk about

1257
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 7: rehearsals that went into that or did link later just

1258
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 7: throw them into the booth and trust them. You know,

1259
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 7: their chemistry is obviously one of the major elements of

1260
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 7: this movie. But yeah, to just to let that play out,

1261
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 7: and then the choice to end it, which I had

1262
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 7: forgotten again watching it today, but that it doesn't conclude,

1263
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 7: but that song continues as then we get a few

1264
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 7: shots across the city. So yeah, for me, it's always

1265
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 7: going to be the listening booth.

1266
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 2: I was like, Nobod's gonna take the listening booth, I'll salute.

1267
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1268
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 12: I mean one thing another thing I will add about

1269
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 12: the listening booth before choosing something else is I think

1270
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 12: when you have that experience of just saying this is

1271
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 12: a really cool song, you want to listen to it.

1272
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 12: It's the most awkward thing in the world you could

1273
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 12: do just to stand around and listen to this. And

1274
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 12: this is still a reasonably they still don't know each

1275
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 12: other terribly well, but there is desire that and so

1276
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 12: you get all of that, You get that feel of

1277
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 12: you're so uncomfortable being in that space together, yet you're

1278
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 12: feeling the flirtiness and the desire and everything is all

1279
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 12: sort of done wordlessly, and the just as performance piece.

1280
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 2: Just watching those two actors in that scene is incredible.

1281
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 2: But I'm just go ahead and let that one go

1282
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 2: to me. It's the it's it's a phone call, uh,

1283
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 2: the because you know, it's it's.

1284
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,919
Speaker 12: So funny and adorable and romantic. But I also love

1285
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 12: how that exercise allows them the opportunity to say how

1286
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 12: they really feel about each other and talk in whether

1287
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 12: they could not have accessed any other way and so,

1288
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,479
Speaker 12: and it comes at a point, you know, a little

1289
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 12: bit later in the film where where they're feelings for

1290
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 12: each other have really intensified. And yeah, that's the one

1291
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 12: for me.

1292
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 5: I was sure thinking about this earlier today that I

1293
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 5: was going to say the listening booth as well, because

1294
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 5: it's it's incredible. Yeah, I have no other options here,

1295
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 5: thanks guys. But the the interesting thing too, I noticed

1296
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 5: this time. I never really thought about it before, but Sam,

1297
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 5: the kiss follows on the heels of that, and I

1298
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 5: don't think the kiss happens at least at that point

1299
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 5: in the movie, that point in their day, if we

1300
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 5: don't get the listening booth scined first.

1301
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 7: It's right, it't happen in the listening booth either. No,

1302
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 7: that's yeah, that would be be interruptive as a word said.

1303
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 5: We need to know, they need to know, they need

1304
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 5: to have that shared experience, that they both want it,

1305
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 5: even though they're they're not directly communicating it. And that's

1306
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 5: why I think he feels not only like he has to,

1307
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 5: you know, he needs to do it, but emboldened to

1308
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 5: actually try. I think it follows the listening booth. So

1309
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 5: I look back at my link later scenes and I

1310
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 5: thought again that would be number one or two, and

1311
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 5: actually that was an honorable mention, my first honorable mention.

1312
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 5: So my number one link later scene was the one

1313
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 5: you just mentioned, Scott. It's the fake phone call scene,

1314
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 5: and it is because of the honesty. And you think

1315
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 5: about those first dates, Sam, you've mentioned that when you

1316
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 5: build up the courage to ask someone out, most of

1317
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 5: us probably don't have first states that are quite like

1318
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 5: this in the movie.

1319
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 3: You know, they're being pretty.

1320
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 5: Open with each other, but you're not open, You're not honest,

1321
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 5: You're not truly honest on a first date. You're still

1322
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 5: presenting a version of yourself, the best version you can

1323
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 5: possibly present. And as honest as they are being with

1324
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 5: each other, that's the moment where they finally get to

1325
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 5: really understand how the other feels about them, and they

1326
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 5: only get to do it through the artifice. They only

1327
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 5: get to do it through the mechanism of play acting.

1328
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 5: It's theater, and the other element of it that I

1329
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 5: love is that she says, she reveals that, if she's

1330
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 5: being honest, the moment she really fell in love with

1331
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 5: him was when he was telling the story on the

1332
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 5: train about his grandmother passing away. And the thing is

1333
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 5: Link later. Of course, being the one who wrote the script,

1334
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 5: he shows us that. He tells us that go back

1335
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 5: and watch it that close up when they cut to

1336
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 5: that reverse shot of her, the camera is just slightly closer.

1337
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 5: We really haven't seen Delpy quite that close. We haven't

1338
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 5: seem Dealty that beautiful. There's something about just the way

1339
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 5: she's tilting her head. It's in the performance too, but

1340
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 5: between performance and what Link later is really subtly done

1341
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 5: with the camera.

1342
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: We see it on her face.

1343
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 5: We read that like, that's the moment she's.

1344
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: We not only see it, but we remember it when

1345
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: she mentions it later that that's the moment. We already

1346
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: knew it was.

1347
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 5: The moment so time I was I was shimed. I

1348
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 5: don't know why I was shocked by this, because I

1349
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 5: do love Richard link Later movies and would have thought,

1350
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 5: of course he's going to deal with time. But it's

1351
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 5: really like the basis of every conversation to have in

1352
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 5: this film isn't.

1353
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: Every twenty minutes it comes up. I mean, I think

1354
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 1: the first time is when he's talking about his documentary

1355
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: idea for cable access or whatever, and.

1356
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,560
Speaker 5: I'm thinking about Boyhood and ead Evanquility go on to

1357
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 5: do something kind of like.

1358
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: It, but it's like, oh, yeah, just hits you capital

1359
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: t time and then it comes up over and over again. Yeah,

1360
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: that it's already very much on his mind.

1361
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 7: And this space they have because it's a limited time space.

1362
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:00,719
Speaker 7: I think that's another reason for the honesty. It frees

1363
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 7: them up, you know, because they are constricted. They have

1364
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 7: time barriers, time constraints, and so they're not planning. I mean,

1365
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 7: they eventually start planning, but they're not planning for date two,

1366
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 7: I guess, and there's a freedom in that, but it's

1367
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 7: all because of the time constriction.

1368
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1369
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 12: I mean that is the theme of link Latter's career.

1370
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 12: Time and memory, and I think memory is a part

1371
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 12: of this film as well.

1372
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 2: You know.

1373
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 12: But if you think about link Latter's career, the film

1374
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 12: he did before this was another Dusk till Dawn movie

1375
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 12: was Days and Confused, sort of based around his own

1376
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 12: memories of high school. This happened to him as well

1377
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 12: some version of this story. Your Boyhood is obviously an

1378
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 12: extension of time which we're following people in both a

1379
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 12: real way and Almoso documentary way as well, because these

1380
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 12: are real the actors are real people who are who

1381
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 12: are growing throughout this amount of time. And of course

1382
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 12: all these three films together also interesting to think about

1383
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,719
Speaker 12: in terms of time. If you think about the amount

1384
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 12: of time that Justin and Seleen spend together, you know,

1385
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 12: it's just very little between this between the time they

1386
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 12: spend here, which is certainly less than twenty four hours,

1387
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 12: and then and then the little bit of time they

1388
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 12: get in before a sunset, which is kind of done

1389
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 12: in real time. The amount of actual time they spend

1390
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 12: together is very very small, which might also explain how

1391
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 12: much they're fighting and before midnight when they get to

1392
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 12: know each other.

1393
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: But and then of course with the memory part, I.

1394
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 12: Mean you get at the end of this movie, this

1395
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 12: beautiful montage of all the spaces that they've visited and

1396
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 12: recontextualized by their relationship. All of these spaces now have

1397
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 12: a meeting imposed upon them and imposed upon us due

1398
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 12: to their presence in them, and those spaces are going

1399
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 12: to be remember, are going to be burned in their

1400
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 12: memories and hopefully, I guess if we appreciate the movie

1401
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 12: burned in ours.

1402
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,600
Speaker 7: I think that connects with your the opening thing you

1403
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 7: mentioned Adam about you know, the camera phones and the technology.

1404
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 7: It's when they say when he says I'm going to

1405
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 7: take a picture, you know, and then doesn't, but he

1406
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 7: stands there we're getting Those are the pictures they might

1407
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 7: have taken of those spots, Scott when we get back

1408
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:02,600
Speaker 7: to it.

1409
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that that connects with.

1410
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 12: This you know selfie sticks at that time, which was.

1411
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: Well, not only that, but you realize there are the

1412
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 1: moments when the conversation dies. That's where I was like,

1413
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to throw my phone into the equivalent of

1414
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: the Danube because it's like we fill those moments. Those

1415
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: are the moments we'd reach for our phone or be

1416
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: like check my texts or check my email. They have

1417
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: to sit in those moments of discomfort. The conversation has

1418
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: has kind of gone into a little bit of a

1419
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: lull and they have to reignite it. It's a nice bridge,

1420
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, and it's like we don't we yeah,

1421
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: put it, you know.

1422
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 2: It's like, I like this bridge.

1423
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: Exactly, we even see that exactly. I got nothing, but

1424
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: I realized there needs to be something here.

1425
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 3: How about the bridge.

1426
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: Identifying with those moments in a different way. It's like,

1427
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: we don't, we don't do that anymore, And it made

1428
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: me long for those moments.

1429
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's a really significant small thing that happens in

1430
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,600
Speaker 12: the movie, at least something that I caught when watching it,

1431
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 12: is when the palm reader comes over and says something

1432
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 12: to Selene about how she believes in the power of

1433
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 12: the moment.

1434
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 2: And I think that's really a critical.

1435
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 12: Thing about a film like this, or film like Days

1436
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 12: to Confused, where it's just in its memory based of

1437
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 12: just like these really critical moments out of time that

1438
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 12: just stay with you and are so important, and that

1439
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 12: these two people believe in so sincerely that they're able,

1440
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 12: that they're willing to jump off this train, to get

1441
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 12: off this train together and do something impulsive because they

1442
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 12: want they believe in the power of the moment, and

1443
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 12: they're willing to pursue this moment is as passionately as

1444
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 12: they can without regard to the consequences, without having caution

1445
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 12: about what, you know, the reality that there is an

1446
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 12: endpoint to all of this, where where she's going to

1447
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 12: get back on train, He's going to take the plane

1448
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 12: back to America, and this this is going to end.

1449
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 2: They disregard that thought.

1450
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 5: I'm glad that you mentioned memory in addition to time,

1451
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 5: because I guess enough time had passed since I last

1452
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 5: seen this film. I had forgotten about the coda at

1453
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 5: the end the post. I kind of thought it ended

1454
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 5: there at the train station, and the fact that we

1455
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 5: get link later just kind of reminding us of the

1456
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 5: different spots that they hit. But then we also get

1457
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 5: cuts back to each of them reflecting, and you can't

1458
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 5: imagine in that moment that that's what they're doing, is

1459
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:21,560
Speaker 5: they're replaying the night, that's their vision, reimagining, you know,

1460
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 5: what they experienced together. So I forgot to do this earlier.

1461
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 5: You can trust Ethan Hawk is going to have an

1462
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 5: original idea. We kept overlapping on our favorite scenes, but

1463
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 5: I did have a chance. Still my favorite interview ever,

1464
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 5: and it was because of Ethan Hawk one hundred percent

1465
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 5: what he gave to the interview. Best conversation I've had

1466
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 5: on the show a few years back. That's not with Josh,

1467
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly. Okay, well said, if then can win, that's fine.

1468
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 5: And at the end of the conversation, we were out

1469
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 5: of time, and I was going to go through with

1470
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 5: him these scenes and these moments and just get him

1471
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 5: to talk about them, but we were out of time.

1472
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 5: As you'll hear, he still decided to share with us

1473
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 5: what his favorite moment is in the film. So I

1474
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 5: think Ali's going to help us out and play it.

1475
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 5: There's so much more we could get to. We did

1476
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 5: our top five wink Later scenes a while back, I

1477
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 5: think when Everybody Wants Some came out and I just

1478
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 5: looking at Nist again, realized that four of my five

1479
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 5: scenes had you in it. Go and maybe you're Maybe

1480
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 5: another time we'll be able to go through those.

1481
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to do my favorite that I've ever been.

1482
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 6: He is talking Julie to get off the train before summer.

1483
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you know, I'm telling her that she was

1484
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 6: going to be a time traveler, and I was going

1485
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 6: to make her feel better about her present marriage by

1486
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 6: revealing to her how what a loser I want.

1487
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: He was a loser. That's the thing. Isn't that the

1488
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: big secret in this movie? He almost blows it like

1489
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: a half a dozen times at least.

1490
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he's still He's still Ethan Hawk, And

1491
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 5: I'm going to say that that two film run with

1492
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 5: reality bites in this maybe the most gorgeous man ever

1493
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 5: on screen. So at least that's you know, my predilections.

1494
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 5: But you know, I like that that as well because

1495
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 5: it brings up the time travel aspect of it and

1496
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 5: saying you're right that maybe every twenty minutes time is

1497
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 5: explicitly referenced, but every single conversation is either them thinking

1498
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 5: about the future, even imagining a future that they may

1499
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 5: have together, even though I don't think either of them

1500
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 5: in that moment actually believe that, or they're reflecting on

1501
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 5: their past, right.

1502
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 7: I do think the deflation of Jesse is key to

1503
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:29,640
Speaker 7: this movie though. It's really why it works. But it's not,

1504
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 7: you know, making him into a joke at all. It's

1505
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 7: allowing him to be a truer sense of himself it's

1506
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 7: allowing him to be more than that guy who is

1507
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 7: telling that time travel story, which is a great one,

1508
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 7: but it's a bit of a performance, right, And so

1509
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 7: he needs someone like her who's willing to prod and

1510
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 7: poke at that affectionately so that he can become more genuine.

1511
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 3: And then she needs him.

1512
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 7: She needs a sparring partner. She needs someone to, like,

1513
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 7: you know, provide her with some ideas she can push

1514
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 7: back against. And he's definitely do that and doing that,

1515
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 7: and in a way they become this couple that is

1516
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 7: self giving. I think Jesse says a couple of times

1517
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 7: when he talks about love, who are giving each other

1518
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 7: something else that they need. It might just be for

1519
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 7: these eighteen hours or whatever. But Delpy reminded me watching

1520
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 7: it today of another great nineties woman character, actually Elaine

1521
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 7: in Seinfeld. I was getting so many Julia Louis Dreyfus,

1522
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 7: because especially that one line where she goes he says, what.

1523
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 3: Bothers you, and shees, I hate everything. It's just like

1524
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 3: and then you can see her going off.

1525
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 7: I was picturing how there's this same sort of like

1526
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 7: going to take the world on and not worry about

1527
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 7: the consequences, and he provides her that space to do

1528
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 7: it for these couple of hours.

1529
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 1: Well, I love too that link Later and his writing

1530
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 1: partner clearly had learned a few things, but they were

1531
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: still able to write for who these characters were at

1532
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 1: that time, which were two people that had a lot

1533
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:00,719
Speaker 1: of ideas and no experience. They were full of shit basically,

1534
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: you know when when kind of us when we start exactly,

1535
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: but when Hawk says something like what is love? But

1536
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 1: two selfish people just don't want to be lonely, I'm like, Nope,

1537
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: not actually at all. You're totally wrong, And that's that's okay,

1538
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,799
Speaker 1: Like he's twenty two, twenty three, and that those characters

1539
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: feel authentic in what they don't know and have only

1540
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 1: thought about. Yeah, it's just movies so special.

1541
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 5: Well that's actually a perfect note to go out on.

1542
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,719
Speaker 5: But I'll open it up to the panel here because

1543
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 5: we do have to Unfortunately, like we ran out of

1544
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 5: time with Ethan Hawk, we're out of time here to

1545
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,639
Speaker 5: talk about Ethan Hawk in this film. Any closing thoughts,

1546
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 5: anything else you want to impart to the crowd.

1547
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: M hmm, well I want to. I want to let

1548
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 2: me impart this this.

1549
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 12: It's not even related to Before Sunrise because this is

1550
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 12: the end of your this is your yeah film Festival.

1551
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 2: At film Festival, when.

1552
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 12: We talk about film discourse, usually the word discourse we

1553
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 12: put in scare quotes and I and I think that

1554
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 12: as a critic, the best thing that you can do

1555
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 12: is to inspire curiosity, passion, thought, conversation, deepen the experience

1556
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,679
Speaker 12: for people. And I think that is something that Film

1557
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 12: Spotting has done throughout its twenty years and continues to

1558
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 12: do and has cultivated this extraordinary crowd. And so I

1559
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,680
Speaker 12: just wanted to tip my hat to film Spotting at twenty.

1560
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, Thanks Scott, Thank you. From March.

1561
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 5: That was our post screening Film spotting Fest conversation about

1562
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 5: Before Sunrise with Scott Tobias and producer Sam recorded live

1563
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 5: at Chicago's Music Box Theater. If you'd like to take

1564
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 5: a look back and learn a little bit about Film

1565
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 5: Spotting Fest, you can go to filmspotting dot net slash

1566
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 5: film Spotting dash Fest. One more piece of business. These

1567
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 5: revisits of the first two before movies. This really is

1568
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 5: a jam pack show, Josh. Those revisits were part of

1569
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 5: our Pantheon project for titles in the Pantheon that have

1570
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 5: never received a proper review, we're giving them their due,

1571
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 5: and this is going to be ongoing, tying them in

1572
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:07,759
Speaker 5: with different anniversaries over the next few years. Before Sunrise,

1573
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,440
Speaker 5: Before Sunset safe to say still Pantheon worthy.

1574
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 3: Josh Absolutely, yep. Okay.

1575
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 5: The third film in the trilogy, twenty thirteen's Before Midnight,

1576
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 5: is also in the Pantheon. It was a package deal

1577
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 5: that did get a review on the show way back

1578
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 5: on episode four forty nine, so we can consider its

1579
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 5: ticket to the Pantheon already punched. And the answer is,

1580
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 5: we are going to consider it's ticket punch but we're

1581
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 5: also going to take another look at it in twenty

1582
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 5: twenty eight. Why not for its fifteenth anniversary.

1583
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:37,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1584
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:39,679
Speaker 7: Yeah, As I think I mentioned when we were talking

1585
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 7: Before Sunset is, I can only imagine my appreciation will

1586
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 7: rise for it and as it did for Sunset on

1587
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 7: a revisit. So it would be fun to do that.

1588
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 5: But we felt like we'd be remiss if we didn't

1589
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 5: use this occasion all this Pantheon talk to induct one

1590
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:57,760
Speaker 5: more film. We're doing a special exemption. We're not going

1591
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:01,679
Speaker 5: to induct anymore Pantheon films until next year when it's time.

1592
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 5: We've decided that we're not going to willy nilly in

1593
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 5: duck movies into the Pantheon. There will be a time

1594
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 5: every year, the same month when we'll do it. There's

1595
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 5: a process now, Josh. But there's a special exemption and

1596
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 5: this movie is worthy and we're going to give you

1597
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 5: its bona fides. That movie is Paul Thomas Anderson's There

1598
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 5: Will Be Blood.

1599
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 7: Why you may recognize it as the champion of film

1600
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 7: spotting madness just a few weeks ago, the best films

1601
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 7: of this century so far. Yeah, There Will Be Blood

1602
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 7: came out on top. And what other madness did it win?

1603
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 3: Adam? Didn't it win a previous tournament.

1604
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 5: Back in twenty nineteen. It won the best of the

1605
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 5: two thousands, So that makes sense, right. If it's going

1606
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 5: to be the best film of the last twenty five years,

1607
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 5: probably should be the best film of the first ten

1608
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 5: years of this quarter century. It also made my list

1609
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 5: of the top twenty five Films of the century list.

1610
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 5: I think it narrowly yours, fair to say, John.

1611
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, definitely a consideration, and I think it's taken. I

1612
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 7: don't know how many film spotting polls over the years

1613
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 7: on various subjects, whenever it came up, whether that's favorite

1614
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 7: Paul Thomas Anderson film or you know, having listeners also

1615
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 7: vote in these sorts of rankings of the decades. So

1616
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 7: this is a movie that is routinely revered on the

1617
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 7: show and would be the obvious pick if we needed

1618
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 7: a Paul Thomas Anderson film in the Pantheon. I think

1619
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 7: would be an obvious consensus pick. And yes, I will

1620
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 7: say that again, we do not have a Paul Thomas

1621
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 7: Anderson's problem in the pantheon, which is a travesty of

1622
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 7: its own that we are going to be correcting now.

1623
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 5: And yet as obvious as it is, and as obvious

1624
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 5: as it is to have a PTA movie in it,

1625
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 5: I know you'd lobby for Phantom Thread, I could lobby

1626
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:52,639
Speaker 5: for The Master, and I'd even potentially lobby for Boogie Nights.

1627
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 5: So it's a tough choice. But with those credentials it

1628
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 5: has to be. There will be blood. It is going

1629
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 5: into the pantheon.

1630
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 10: Ry, what is this your farewell speech going home, your

1631
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 10: farewell to the troops.

1632
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 3: I'm not going on going with friends, have a good trick.

1633
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 5: More about The film Spotting Pantheon is available at Filmspotting

1634
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 5: dot Net slash Pantheon.

1635
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 9: This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through

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1653
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Speaker 1: Helora, Sure to.

1654
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 2: Hell Bizierier.

1655
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 7: That's for Andre Tarkowski's Nostalgia from nineteen eighty three. It

1656
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 7: is the final film in our Tarkowski Marathon and the

1657
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 7: final Tarkowski film, Adam, you needed to see to become

1658
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 7: a completist. We each had different blind spots as part

1659
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 7: of this marathon, and this was a big one for

1660
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,919
Speaker 7: you and now you have seen it the film spotty marathons.

1661
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 7: We do these about once or twice a year. There

1662
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 7: are opportunities to do just that fill in cinematic blind spots.

1663
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 3: Now.

1664
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 7: Nostalgia follows chronologically the film we talked about last week,

1665
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 7: nineteen seventy nine's Stalker. Unlike Stalker, not any metaphysical sci

1666
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 7: fi going on. Instead, this is about a Russian writer

1667
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 7: who is traveling to Italy with a translator to conduct

1668
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 7: research for a project about an eighteenth century Russian composer

1669
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 7: who spent some time in this area of Italy. Nostalgia

1670
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 7: premiered in competition at the nineteen eighty three can Film Festival,

1671
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 7: where Tarkowski shared the Best Director prize with another cinematic heavyweight,

1672
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 7: Robert Broussan, for what ended up being Brosson's final film, larjen.

1673
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 5: If letterbox can be trusted. Josh, it looks like you

1674
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 5: last saw Nostalgia about ten years ago October twenty fifth.

1675
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 5: Was that in advance of our Top five can Best

1676
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 5: Director winners Top five in November twenty fifteen or maybe

1677
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 5: another occasion At the time you wrote it would take

1678
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 5: many viewings to get a more specific handle on Tarkovsky's

1679
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 5: thematic aims. I think you could write that about every

1680
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 5: Tarkovski film, and you could write this as well. Yet

1681
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 5: I was more than content to simply swim in the

1682
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 5: movies mysteries and possibilities. Swim an apt word considering all

1683
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 5: the water imagery. It's not many viewings later, It's just

1684
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 5: one at this point. So how was your handle on

1685
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 5: Tarkovsky this time?

1686
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 7: Getting there with this one? You know, in those times

1687
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 7: talking about Stoker, when I referenced other denser works of Tarkovsky,

1688
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 7: I think I was maybe thinking most about nostalgia. Perhaps

1689
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 7: the sacrifice can be a little bit that way. I

1690
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 7: think this viewing has helped me understand a little better

1691
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 7: what I sawce Off in that first view, and it's

1692
01:26:57,240 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 7: the theme of motherhood. We can maybe spend some time

1693
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 7: talking about that. I still have questions about that theme.

1694
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 7: But let's jump back to start, at least by jumping

1695
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 7: back to our conversation about Stalker, because with that fresh

1696
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 7: in my mind and that being my most recent viewing,

1697
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 7: I notice that nostalgia in a way has a version

1698
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 7: of the room that is in Stoker. I don't think

1699
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 7: this is the dominant theme, but it is interesting that

1700
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 7: it's there, and it's actually there at the start, when

1701
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 7: we do see the interpreter played by Domesiana Giordano going

1702
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:36,679
Speaker 7: into this chapel, it looks like some sort of chapel

1703
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 7: and she's observing what's going on and the sacristan working there.

1704
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 7: I think she asked him what's supposed to happen here,

1705
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,799
Speaker 7: and he says, whatever you like, whatever you need most,

1706
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 7: and right there I was like, oh wow, we're discussing

1707
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 7: the room. And then he says, how about this, but

1708
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 7: you should at least kneel down, which connects to the

1709
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 7: idea I pulled out about the room being where you

1710
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 7: encounter the divine. I like how he also says that

1711
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 7: earlier on there he says if there are casual lookers

1712
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 7: meaning her at the chapel, nothing happens, so it's kind

1713
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,560
Speaker 7: of like how serious what is the faith of the

1714
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 7: professor and the writer in Stalker? And then there's that

1715
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 7: bizarre visit that the poet, this main character makes to

1716
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 7: this abandoned abbey, San Gugano. And as he's wandering around

1717
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,799
Speaker 7: this edifice with no roof, nothing in the windows, grass

1718
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 7: growing on the ground, but it has this, you know,

1719
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 7: the structure of an abbey. We hear a man and

1720
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 7: a woman talking about the man seeking God, but God

1721
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 7: not responding, and so you know, these are all through

1722
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 7: lines to what I think is the main concern of

1723
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 7: Stalker and a side concern here, but definitely because we

1724
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 7: watched discuss Stoker, I feel like I was able to

1725
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,639
Speaker 7: draw that out a little bit more. So That's where

1726
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 7: I was at with this second viewing. But yeah, for

1727
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 7: your first viewing, was there something that stood out to

1728
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 7: you as a prominence or preeminent concern of all the

1729
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 7: things Tartskovsky is dipping his toes in with this film.

1730
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 5: Well, before I try to answer that I mentioned earlier,

1731
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:15,640
Speaker 5: the coincidence spotting of watching this film after watching and

1732
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 5: also talking about before sunset and sunrise on this show,

1733
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 5: it is not just the nostalgia thing. What did it

1734
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 5: for me. Josh was at some point seeing a close

1735
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:30,160
Speaker 5: up of Domisiana Giordano Eugenia as you mentioned, and seeing

1736
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 5: that strawberry blonde hair, the curly long lock. She's doing

1737
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 5: something with her hair, and it was like I was

1738
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 5: looking at Julie Delpy from before, from before Sunset and Sunrise,

1739
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:46,640
Speaker 5: and they're having these philosophical conversations. Is they're kind of

1740
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:50,839
Speaker 5: sitting and strolling around, and he's a writer, like Jesse's

1741
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 5: a writer. And I was just flashing back to Sunset

1742
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 5: and Sunrise as I was watching this movie, even being

1743
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 5: in a foreign country for the writer in this case

1744
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 5: as well. So that was in my mind as I

1745
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 5: was watching this film. But what was really in my

1746
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 5: mind watching it as the culmination of this marathon was

1747
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 5: how perfect it was. Whether or not it's the last

1748
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 5: film from Tarkovski, it's not, We have the Sacrifice. It

1749
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 5: is a perfect closing film to this marathon, because the

1750
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 5: opening of this movie is a kind of Tarkovski one

1751
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 5: oh one. We have this shot where you've got this

1752
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 5: misty haze fog sweeping across. You've used this word, I

1753
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:38,080
Speaker 5: think I've used it before, maybe back when we talked

1754
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 5: about mirror, like something's been conjured, that is that is

1755
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 5: sweeping across the landscape. We have a pond, so we've

1756
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 5: got the water, got to have that. We have a dog,

1757
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 5: and we have a white horse. They're all there, All

1758
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 5: our main characters are here. We also have actual people,

1759
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 5: and they're doing that thing that Tarkovsky characters often do

1760
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 5: and do a lot in this film, which is looking

1761
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:12,640
Speaker 5: back at the camera, looking at us, often kind of

1762
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 5: breaking the fourth wall, and it gives us that sense

1763
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 5: of the point of view of a dreamer, the point

1764
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 5: of view of someone who is having a memory. And

1765
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:28,519
Speaker 5: it even ends with a freeze frame. And this is

1766
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 5: something Tarkovsky has done in other films, and he's done

1767
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 5: in other films in this marathon. Now, I can't completely

1768
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 5: rely on my notes here, but I know that in

1769
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 5: other films I have written down, Wait a second, is

1770
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 5: that a subtle? Is that a freeze frame there? And

1771
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 5: I went back to my notes for Stalker and I

1772
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 5: swear to God and my notes for Stoker I have

1773
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 5: does it freeze frame on them?

1774
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 3: Just before the rain?

1775
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 5: And then I went back to Andre Rubelev and Josh

1776
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 5: I would not have copied and pasted this for any reason,

1777
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:58,719
Speaker 5: It says, does it freeze frame on them just before

1778
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 5: the rain? So is it possible that exactly the same moment,

1779
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 5: there's a freeze frame before rain starts to fall in

1780
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,280
Speaker 5: those two films, and here again he uses a freeze frame.

1781
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 5: So it's all of these Tarkovsky images and ideas kind

1782
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 5: of co mingling just at the beginning of the film,

1783
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 5: and it's it's haunting and it's beautiful, and I felt

1784
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:21,760
Speaker 5: like I was right in the headspace I needed to

1785
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:25,720
Speaker 5: be in at the beginning of this film. The other

1786
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 5: thing that I guess I'm going to keep harping on

1787
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 5: because he is going to keep harping on it the

1788
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 5: character of the Holy Fool that this movie is largely

1789
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 5: built around. We meet Domenico, and here we get a

1790
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 5: great definition of it. I think if you're going to

1791
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 5: ask ultimately what Tarkovsky means by the Holy Fool, we

1792
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:56,839
Speaker 5: have the main character Andre Gorchakov. We have his definition

1793
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 5: what he says to Eugenia, says, they're troublesome, inconvenient, they're alone,

1794
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 5: but they're certainly closer to the truth. I think that

1795
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 5: goes for Andre Rublev, that goes for the main character

1796
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 5: in Stalker. It goes for other characters that we've seen

1797
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 5: throughout this entire marathon. And isn't that ultimately, by the

1798
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 5: end of this film, we're gonna jump ahead. We have

1799
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 5: to get to the end of this film. By the

1800
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:28,720
Speaker 5: end of this movie, isn't that ultimately what we see

1801
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 5: Gortchakov become. Now what happens to our actual holy fool,

1802
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 5: the character who starts as our holy fool, Well, that's

1803
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:41,440
Speaker 5: that's a pretty awful demise. Yeah, And the way Tarkovsky

1804
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 5: depicts it is horrific. In the sound design, he cuts

1805
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 5: out the music Beethoven at one point to give us

1806
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 5: the screams we hear, the screams of pain as he

1807
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 5: has self immolated. And yet Tarkovsky finds a way to

1808
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 5: go from some thing terrible, something brutal, to something kind

1809
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 5: of beautiful, the flames that have engulfed him to the

1810
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 5: flame of the candle, almost a match cut the flame

1811
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 5: of the candle that Andrea is holding as he is

1812
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 5: now going to try to do what Domenico asked him

1813
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 5: to do, which is show his faith walk across the

1814
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 5: water with this candle. And at first I thought, I thought,

1815
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 5: is this another case of Tarkowski asking us as an

1816
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 5: audience to have a certain amount of faith ourselves, because

1817
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,839
Speaker 5: it seems like he's walking across the water pretty easily,

1818
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 5: but we don't see his legs and we don't really

1819
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 5: see a wide shot, and so is he doing it

1820
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 5: or is he not doing it? And then you realize, well, okay,

1821
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 5: it's all dried up and so there's really no water there,

1822
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 5: and so it's a little bit of an easy way out,

1823
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 5: but it's not so much of an easy way out

1824
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 5: because he still has to walk across and keep that

1825
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 5: flame intact. And I don't know how long that sequence is,

1826
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:01,360
Speaker 5: but it feels like I didn't have time to go

1827
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 5: back in time. It Josh, that's a long sequence. Okay,

1828
01:35:04,160 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 5: seven minutes. It feels like an unbroken take has to

1829
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 5: be an unbroken take, right, we have to we have

1830
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 5: to experience that entire journey. That has to feel like

1831
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:18,599
Speaker 5: his entire lifespan shrunken down to seven minutes. And it does. Yeah,

1832
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 5: And as he walks across, he ultimately gets across, and

1833
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:28,799
Speaker 5: I think in that moment does finally prove that he believes,

1834
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 5: proves his faith. And for me, that felt like that

1835
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:36,960
Speaker 5: ending felt to me as close to the pinnacle or

1836
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 5: the ideal of a Tarkovsky ending as you could possibly have.

1837
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 7: It's an astonishing sequence that is comprised of, yes, little

1838
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 7: more than this man trudging across the length of a

1839
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 7: drained natural pool with a candle, hoping it won't go

1840
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 7: out because of the wind coming through or whatever. Yeah,

1841
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 7: this would have been my scene of the year if

1842
01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:59,000
Speaker 7: it came out in nineteen eighty three. It's just one

1843
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 7: of these sustained but quiet instances of slow cinema being

1844
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 7: mesmerized by that and you get lost in the effort.

1845
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 7: You get Time takes on a different meaning if you

1846
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 7: allow yourself to give into it. Is it him expressing

1847
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,800
Speaker 7: his faith? I can see that I'm still uncertain of

1848
01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:25,759
Speaker 7: what's going on in that scene, even though I submit

1849
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 7: to its power. I think that I think that would

1850
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 7: make sense. This is something the Holy fool has asked

1851
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 7: him to do. It is something that he didn't do.

1852
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:36,680
Speaker 7: I forget if he tells him at one point that

1853
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 7: he did it before he's done it. I suggests that

1854
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 7: he suggests that he's done and he has it, So

1855
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,680
Speaker 7: it is he's he's circling back to follow through on

1856
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:49,479
Speaker 7: something he promised, which is interesting, and yeah, what is

1857
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 7: maybe this is him entering the room to bring it

1858
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 7: back to Stalker is by doing this, he's taking that

1859
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:01,479
Speaker 7: step that the writer and the professor wouldn't take. So

1860
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 7: that coincides with what you're talking about in terms of

1861
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 7: an expression of faith. So yeah, I like that, but

1862
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 7: it is also his last I read it as his

1863
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 7: last gesture on earth because I too, and.

1864
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,479
Speaker 5: That supports my theory to me. Yeah, he makes it

1865
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 5: that expression, that ultimate expression of faith.

1866
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 7: It also transports him to because it's not literally the

1867
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 7: final scene. What we then get is that like it

1868
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 7: is a freeze frame shot, I think, but the camera

1869
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 7: is still pulling back again. One of these definitive Tarkowsky

1870
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:39,439
Speaker 7: images that you know, if you just google his name,

1871
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:41,600
Speaker 7: it's one of the images that will come credible of

1872
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 7: the poet. This is we're in black and white. Now,

1873
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 7: we haven't really talked about the shifts too much of

1874
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 7: color and black and white, but we're in black and white,

1875
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:51,160
Speaker 7: which has been suggested to be his visions or dreams

1876
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 7: or memories, and the shack we've seen in these visions

1877
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 7: and dreams and memories is there yet it is somehow

1878
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 7: inside this abandoned abby I've described which quick note and

1879
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 7: speaking of you know as it came up earlier in

1880
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:07,519
Speaker 7: the show Debi iron Off on a thirtieth anniversary trip.

1881
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:10,880
Speaker 7: Tenth anniversary trip was to Italy and we went to

1882
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:14,600
Speaker 7: this abbey, son Gealganok Abbey. Yeah, it is one of

1883
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 7: the most unsettling places I've been on Earth, in the

1884
01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:23,640
Speaker 7: sense that you don't know what it's supposed to be

1885
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 7: because it is completely It has this edifice. It is

1886
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:28,920
Speaker 7: an abbey, but it looks like a cathedral. It wasn't

1887
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:30,880
Speaker 7: a cathedral. It was, you know, a place where monks

1888
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:33,080
Speaker 7: worshiped and lived, but it has the edifice of a

1889
01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:37,560
Speaker 7: massive cathedral, and yet nature has taken over inside and

1890
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 7: there's no roof. And it's just so perfect that a

1891
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 7: place like that would show up in a Tarkaff movie

1892
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 7: because it exists here on Earth, but it seems like

1893
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 7: it'd be one of these art installations he would create

1894
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:50,280
Speaker 7: for one of his movies at any rate. At this shot,

1895
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 7: we have the poet sitting in the middle of this abbey.

1896
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:56,720
Speaker 7: Miniature work had to be involved to get this, to

1897
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 7: pull this off, and he's sitting there with the dog

1898
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:03,519
Speaker 7: again looking at the camera. Snow begins to fall. So

1899
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 7: here's the question, as you described the earlier image like that,

1900
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:10,800
Speaker 7: if he's been the viewer previously in these visions, when

1901
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 7: characters look back, we assume they're looking back at him,

1902
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 7: even though they're looking at us. Now he is looking

1903
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:16,479
Speaker 7: at us.

1904
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:18,760
Speaker 3: Is that you know?

1905
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:20,680
Speaker 7: I think we talked about this in Stalker? Is that

1906
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 7: the point where Tarkowsky is now challenging us? What are

1907
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:28,839
Speaker 7: you going to do with this presence that's been presented

1908
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 7: to you? What is your response going to be? Is

1909
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 7: that what the poet is saying to us as the

1910
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 7: only viewers left? But also where is he now? Is

1911
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 7: he in his memories? Is he in his visions? Because

1912
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:42,479
Speaker 7: we both read it as that he has died in

1913
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:46,360
Speaker 7: that pool. Yes, so thematically, there's so many possibilities. It's

1914
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 7: just as a composition of its own, it's a master work.

1915
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:53,240
Speaker 5: Well yeah, just purely as a composition. You're exactly right.

1916
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 5: But I'm reading it as he is transcending whatever plane

1917
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 5: of existence he's on when he's in the pool, he

1918
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 5: is into another realm, whatever you want to characterize that

1919
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 5: realm as, whatever name you want to put on it.

1920
01:40:08,360 --> 01:40:11,479
Speaker 5: I do associate it, I suppose, with a sort of

1921
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:15,400
Speaker 5: heaven in the sense that it it seems to be

1922
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 5: based on how we can find parallels with the other

1923
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 5: imagery and with the dog there in the water and

1924
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:25,320
Speaker 5: the home. It feels like it's his childhood home. It

1925
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 5: feels like it's that nostalgic, warm place.

1926
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:28,280
Speaker 2: Now.

1927
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:30,439
Speaker 5: I don't know what to do with the abbey and

1928
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:33,560
Speaker 5: what it's wrapped in, I really I don't fully, but

1929
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 5: it feels like it feels like it is comforting to

1930
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 5: him in that moment. Yeah, and so that's why I

1931
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 5: read that whole ending as as a positive thing from

1932
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:45,040
Speaker 5: a faith perspective.

1933
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:48,799
Speaker 7: And you have to also read these visions as memories

1934
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 7: of his childhood, right, because you know, I don't. I

1935
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 7: was wondering is this his wife that he's seen or

1936
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 7: is this his mother?

1937
01:40:57,400 --> 01:40:59,640
Speaker 3: And of course that's a tricky could be both in

1938
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 3: different points.

1939
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, in mirror there's a figure where it's the same

1940
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 7: actress plays the main figures ex wife and mother. So yeah,

1941
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:09,400
Speaker 7: so that's hard to say, but I think I lean

1942
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 7: with you as these are memories of childhood, right, and

1943
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,640
Speaker 7: a childhood home. And yeah, another thing I was going

1944
01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 7: to point out, is you were in one of these

1945
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:21,800
Speaker 7: visions the use of camera work. Here we have these

1946
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,759
Speaker 7: women figures, I think there's three of them, that they're

1947
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 7: looking at the camera and the camera is kind of

1948
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:30,639
Speaker 7: tracking sideways across their faces. And this is a trick

1949
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 7: Tarkovsky has pulled in other films too, where an actor

1950
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:36,719
Speaker 7: will look at the camera and then the camera slides

1951
01:41:36,760 --> 01:41:40,200
Speaker 7: past them to meet another actor. They must run behind

1952
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:44,920
Speaker 7: the camera to position themselves in the scene. Further, so,

1953
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:48,280
Speaker 7: as the camera continues to track, they reappear. And it

1954
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 7: seems that this goes back to the conjuring and the

1955
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:53,080
Speaker 7: breaking of temporal space. We're like, wait a minute, how

1956
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 7: did they were just to my left? He does it

1957
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:59,599
Speaker 7: with andre in Domenico's Dwelling too. Yes, yeah, it's such

1958
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 7: a suttle effective trick. And then in that same shot

1959
01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 7: it comes to a still point and the horses in

1960
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 7: there and the dog is in there. I could have

1961
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 7: sworn to your question about the freeze frame. Somehow they

1962
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 7: managed to freeze frame the horse. So we see that

1963
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 7: the women either wind is blowing their hair or they

1964
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,600
Speaker 7: move a little bit. The dog moves its position. But

1965
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 7: if you Notice the horse in the background has completely frozen.

1966
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:29,479
Speaker 7: Why how Who knows? But the immediate fact is like

1967
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:32,880
Speaker 7: we're in a time and space that you've never been

1968
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 7: in before.

1969
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, this entire film feels that way. You said that

1970
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 5: as you were setting this up, right, And there are

1971
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 5: no traditional sci fi elements. This isn't a science fiction film.

1972
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:45,800
Speaker 5: It definitely is not, and certainly not in the way

1973
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 5: Stalker is or Solaris is. And yet you are in

1974
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 5: all of these liminal spaces. The entire film is a

1975
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 5: liminal space. At one point. To go back to what

1976
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 5: you said too about time and space breaking down. Remember

1977
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:02,559
Speaker 5: he thinks it's time for lunch, and she says at

1978
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 5: seven am. We have no sense we as viewers, the

1979
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 5: characters have no sense of what time it is. And

1980
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 5: yes I had in my notes. The camera pans left,

1981
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 5: and all of a sudden you're in a different place.

1982
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 5: The characters are in different places within the room, the

1983
01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 5: fog coming in the way when the camera moves. You

1984
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 5: have characters who are in that water in the canal,

1985
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:29,000
Speaker 5: and they're perfectly still. It feels like an alien landscape almost.

1986
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:33,760
Speaker 5: You have missed oozing up from the ground, right, So

1987
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 5: there is something that feels alien about it, and you

1988
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:39,560
Speaker 5: have to almost wonder, like in Stalker, what kind of

1989
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 5: world are we in? Is this the world of the mind?

1990
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:47,759
Speaker 5: Is it an imaginary place? Is it some kind of dystopia? Honestly?

1991
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:48,200
Speaker 8: Is it?

1992
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 5: Who knows? It doesn't feel like the real world, even

1993
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 5: though there are aspects of it that feel very much

1994
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 5: like our everyday world. But all of the characters are

1995
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 5: fluctuating within it and within this time in space, which

1996
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:06,360
Speaker 5: is why when Tarkovsky breaks it in various ways and

1997
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 5: shocks us, it's so striking. One of those moments is

1998
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 5: when Eugenia goes into the church and that I don't

1999
01:44:17,479 --> 01:44:20,000
Speaker 5: know what you exactly call it, not a statue, but

2000
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 5: Mother Mary is before her.

2001
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:25,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, they call it the Madonna of childbirth. I think childbirth.

2002
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:29,400
Speaker 5: And when when that woman kneels down in front of

2003
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 5: her and the gown opens and those birds fly incredible, right,

2004
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's a it's a stunner. And as

2005
01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:39,680
Speaker 5: if that wasn't stunning enough, the next shot is the

2006
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 5: feathers from the birds cascading down, floating down on top

2007
01:44:44,240 --> 01:44:49,160
Speaker 5: of the candles. That that is also gorgeous, And then we.

2008
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:55,719
Speaker 7: Get like that could happen, but it's tiptoeing towards things

2009
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 7: where you're like.

2010
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:58,960
Speaker 3: How could that ever happen? Right?

2011
01:44:59,160 --> 01:44:59,320
Speaker 2: Right?

2012
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:01,559
Speaker 5: So yeah, I guess if you want to use these words,

2013
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:05,840
Speaker 5: it's secular and spiritual colliding, which that collision seems to

2014
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 5: happen all of the time in these films. And then

2015
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 5: we get to the hotel, and I know, especially coming

2016
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:16,080
Speaker 5: off of Stalker, this is kind of almost silly to say,

2017
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 5: but what filmmaker, and I'm gonna say even even better

2018
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 5: than Kubrick, what filmmaker uses rooms and uses doorways better?

2019
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2020
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 5: Ute uses doorways like their portals to other worlds all

2021
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:38,599
Speaker 5: the time. They're constantly these imposing forces behind almost almost

2022
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:42,560
Speaker 5: imposing forces behind characters. As they're talking, we feel the

2023
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 5: presence behind them, like they're they're drawing them in. Or

2024
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 5: what about that shot? I think it's when he's going

2025
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:51,639
Speaker 5: into Domenico's home for the first time and he parts

2026
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:54,840
Speaker 5: the doors. They're like barn doors that he parts, and

2027
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:57,519
Speaker 5: when he does, what's on the other side black and white.

2028
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,799
Speaker 5: He's going into a dream, He's going into a memory

2029
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:05,160
Speaker 5: when he opens that door. That's that reality and fantasy

2030
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:08,960
Speaker 5: or memory world. Directly, they're colliding with each other. But

2031
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 5: then when we go into the hotel, that room, that

2032
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,800
Speaker 5: room that he is in, Josh with that bed in

2033
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:19,320
Speaker 5: the middle and the light on the window and the

2034
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 5: bathroom on each side of it. Here again, I'm gonna

2035
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 5: say nothing sci fi about it directly, and yet it

2036
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 5: almost feels like something out of two thousand and one,

2037
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:33,639
Speaker 5: the way the bathroom is bathed in that white sterile light,

2038
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:39,120
Speaker 5: and the way the rain is coming in through the window,

2039
01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:42,599
Speaker 5: and then of course talk about memory, world and reality

2040
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 5: clashing with each other. All sorts of weird stuff starts

2041
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:46,679
Speaker 5: to happen over the course of that long shot.

2042
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:48,720
Speaker 7: I think that shot, you know, if you wanted to

2043
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 7: give a shot to maybe explain Tarkowski, you might choose that,

2044
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:55,200
Speaker 7: even though it's not quite as rivera as the final one.

2045
01:46:56,200 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 7: It's this art installation idea where he places the camera

2046
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:02,160
Speaker 7: and lets the production design and the lighting. That light

2047
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 7: you described in the bathroom shifts a little bit, and

2048
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,880
Speaker 7: I noticed this time the window to the left of

2049
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:11,920
Speaker 7: the bed. It's raining outside, as you said, and the

2050
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:14,599
Speaker 7: way it's raining on the wall beyond of the building

2051
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:17,360
Speaker 7: beyond it kind of makes the paint of that building

2052
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:19,599
Speaker 7: peel off and fall down.

2053
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:22,120
Speaker 3: So it's it's almost this, you know.

2054
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 7: Esoteric art piece. You're just watching shapes and colors change.

2055
01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:30,519
Speaker 7: And then the water is not only coming through the window,

2056
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 7: but it's seeping through the floor in a way. All

2057
01:47:34,040 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 7: of a sudden, there's a puddle by the bed, and

2058
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 7: then this is probably where you were going.

2059
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,439
Speaker 3: But suddenly the dog who comes out of the shows yeah.

2060
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 7: And just it's the same dog from the black and

2061
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:49,240
Speaker 7: white visions and calmly walks to the side of the

2062
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 7: bed and lays down. And I love how the poet.

2063
01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 7: I think this is the touch that connects it to

2064
01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:58,680
Speaker 7: a temporal space, because initially we might be thinking, well,

2065
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,000
Speaker 7: that's maybe another dog, what's going on? We're trying to

2066
01:48:01,000 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 7: stay in the real world. He just gently reaches out

2067
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:08,400
Speaker 7: his hand and strokes the dog. So it's even though

2068
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 7: it shouldn't be there, he should be concerned about this.

2069
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 7: That links the dog not only because the same kind

2070
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:18,680
Speaker 7: of dog, but to his memories. Because of his response

2071
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:21,840
Speaker 7: to it. It's like he's drifting off now into this

2072
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:25,080
Speaker 7: dream or this vision, and the dog has we've talked

2073
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 7: about the dog in stock or the dog has led

2074
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:30,560
Speaker 7: him there, or the dog represents in this case. In

2075
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 7: that case, you talked about how the dog represents this

2076
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 7: really happened because he came out of the zone. Here,

2077
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:39,839
Speaker 7: the dog is like, well, something metaphysical is really happening,

2078
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 7: because I came out of the metaphysical into the real world.

2079
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 5: The dog almost brings him back into the scene, because

2080
01:48:46,520 --> 01:48:50,679
Speaker 5: the way it's lit, it feels like Andrea is sinking

2081
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 5: into the bed, into the darkness. He's disappearing, and you

2082
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:57,840
Speaker 5: feel like he might actually be disappearing, like some kind

2083
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,160
Speaker 5: of magic act is happening as we're watching it. A

2084
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 5: couple of their small touches that I noticed throughout the marathon.

2085
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:06,920
Speaker 5: We've referenced a few times, the birches. I think we

2086
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:10,879
Speaker 5: both probably assumed that for them to be a recurring motif,

2087
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:15,240
Speaker 5: that there had to be something in his childhood that

2088
01:49:16,439 --> 01:49:20,679
Speaker 5: he was fond of, and he liked to include that image.

2089
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,800
Speaker 5: And we have a line here where a character says

2090
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:27,120
Speaker 5: the birches. He loves the birches and the air of

2091
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:29,920
Speaker 5: my childhood, so we must have grown up around them.

2092
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:33,160
Speaker 5: There's a lot of autobiographical elements in all of his films,

2093
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 5: but here, like mirror. He even references the poet his father, Tarkovsky,

2094
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,920
Speaker 5: so we have that. I think she's reading his poems, right,

2095
01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:47,160
Speaker 5: I believe I think Eugenia is reading Tarkovsky. I think

2096
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:49,320
Speaker 5: we can take him at his word here this character,

2097
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:52,000
Speaker 5: even though it is a character, that those birches are

2098
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 5: something from his childhood, and this is maybe even I

2099
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 5: was gonna say, maybe it's unintentional, but I don't think

2100
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:03,160
Speaker 5: it is. It's just too good. I love when Domenico

2101
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:07,080
Speaker 5: says to Andre when they're talking, Andre takes out a

2102
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:12,559
Speaker 5: cigarette and Domenico says something like, I also smoke when

2103
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:15,120
Speaker 5: I don't know what to say. And you realize how often,

2104
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 5: even in movies, that's exactly what a cigarette is, right.

2105
01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:21,280
Speaker 5: A cigarette is such a perfect diversion. It allows you

2106
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 5: to buy time. That's how they function. When you don't

2107
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:26,639
Speaker 5: know what to do, you don't know what to say,

2108
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:29,160
Speaker 5: you can at least stall and light up a cigarette.

2109
01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:33,439
Speaker 5: And later after Eugenia has said on the phone to him,

2110
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:36,679
Speaker 5: you know, I have a boyfriend. Now I have my man, Vittorio.

2111
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 5: We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. There's a

2112
01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:41,840
Speaker 5: pretty good sense that that isn't that happy of a

2113
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:44,800
Speaker 5: relationship anyway, just based on how that scene is shot

2114
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:48,400
Speaker 5: and how cold it detached he seems. But what happens

2115
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:51,439
Speaker 5: at the very end of that scene. The camera is

2116
01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 5: fixated on her, but we know she's talking to him,

2117
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:58,599
Speaker 5: and there's no sound, there's nothing coming from him whatsoever.

2118
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:02,360
Speaker 5: He doesn't seem to really even notice her. And what

2119
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:05,160
Speaker 5: does she say. She says, I'm gonna go out and

2120
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:09,360
Speaker 5: buy some cigarettes, And it felt to me like a

2121
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:13,080
Speaker 5: direct callback to that scene where it's her saying, clearly,

2122
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:15,640
Speaker 5: we have nothing to say to each other and all

2123
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:17,760
Speaker 5: she can think to do is God and get some cigarettes.

2124
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:21,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, she's really good throughout. She kind of fades away

2125
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:23,719
Speaker 7: from the film a little bit in the middle section.

2126
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 7: But I think I'm not sure if we've mentioned Oleg

2127
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:31,320
Speaker 7: Yankovski as Andre, This main character a really a hard part,

2128
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:35,120
Speaker 7: I would think, to pull off where you're not responding much,

2129
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:37,920
Speaker 7: so much of this is taking place in his head.

2130
01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:40,800
Speaker 7: Yet he you know, he's compelling enough on his own

2131
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 7: as this figure to hold our attention, our interests, and

2132
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:46,720
Speaker 7: our sympathy, and especially he's able to pull off that

2133
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:49,240
Speaker 7: long take at the end where it has to be

2134
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:52,880
Speaker 7: all about his physicality and his perseverance. Right, he doesn't

2135
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:55,960
Speaker 7: say anything there. And then Dominico, who you were describing

2136
01:51:56,000 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 7: the holy fool here Eerlyn Josephson, who would later start

2137
01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 7: in Tarkovski's The Sacrifice. Yeah, playing this somewhat wild character,

2138
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:07,679
Speaker 7: but I also love you know, he's notorious, this character

2139
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:11,920
Speaker 7: Dominico for having locked his family up years before. I

2140
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:13,519
Speaker 7: think was it seven years today?

2141
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 5: Seven years?

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01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:17,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, seven years because it's unclear he thought it was

2143
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 7: the end of the world or was he just jealous

2144
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 7: because some man was looking at his wife and he

2145
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:24,679
Speaker 7: didn't want her to be around men. But he locks

2146
01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 7: his entire family up. We get a black and white

2147
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:30,840
Speaker 7: flashback to when the family escapes the home, and that

2148
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:35,240
Speaker 7: I think ties us more closely to Dominico as a

2149
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:38,920
Speaker 7: sympathetic character and not just this raving lunatic so and

2150
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:41,960
Speaker 7: Josephsin's performance, of course helps with that. And as you

2151
01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:45,759
Speaker 7: were mentioning the autobiographical stuff, just thought probably worth noting.

2152
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 7: And this is tied to the theme of motherhood we've

2153
01:52:47,960 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 7: touched on here and there. Clearly the Madonna of Childbirth

2154
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:53,479
Speaker 7: statue sequence at the beginning is tied to that. But

2155
01:52:53,560 --> 01:52:55,479
Speaker 7: at the end of this film dedicated to the memory

2156
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:59,639
Speaker 7: of my mother. So you know, clearly a primary concern

2157
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:04,320
Speaker 7: of nostalgia is not only this general notion of motherhood,

2158
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:07,920
Speaker 7: but specifically Tarkovsky's mother as well.

2159
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:13,000
Speaker 5: Nostalgia is currently available vod My Tarkovsky rank list should

2160
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:15,240
Speaker 5: be coming in hot on letterbox. Do you already have yours?

2161
01:53:15,280 --> 01:53:15,400
Speaker 3: There?

2162
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:15,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2163
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 7: No, because I got to give some time with you know,

2164
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 7: having these it's tougher than it was before, and not

2165
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:25,800
Speaker 7: just because now I've seen every film.

2166
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:29,640
Speaker 5: We will have one more bit of Tarkovsky business to

2167
01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:32,640
Speaker 5: attend to when you get back from your trip. We

2168
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:35,560
Speaker 5: have to share, as we conclude every marathon, we have

2169
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:39,439
Speaker 5: to share our Tarkovsky Awards. We need a name. I'm

2170
01:53:39,439 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 5: gonna throw out the Birches.

2171
01:53:41,439 --> 01:53:41,519
Speaker 2: But.

2172
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's I feel like that's kind of got to

2173
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:46,760
Speaker 7: be the Holy Fool.

2174
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:48,560
Speaker 5: It may have to be the Holy Fools, but you

2175
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:50,720
Speaker 5: know what, We'll still take other suggestions, and if we

2176
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:53,920
Speaker 5: eat our special category, it seems obvious to go with

2177
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:57,719
Speaker 5: something like just even the single shot best image.

2178
01:53:58,280 --> 01:53:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that might be.

2179
01:54:00,240 --> 01:54:02,080
Speaker 7: That might be a good one to kind of force

2180
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:04,479
Speaker 7: us to really narrow in. I mean, we've talked about

2181
01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:06,560
Speaker 7: water so much. It could be water image if we

2182
01:54:06,720 --> 01:54:09,240
Speaker 7: wanted to at least give ourselves some constraints, but a

2183
01:54:09,320 --> 01:54:10,360
Speaker 7: couple places we could go.

2184
01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:13,480
Speaker 5: Email us feedback at filmspotting dot net with your suggestions

2185
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:15,200
Speaker 5: and if you would like to learn more about this

2186
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:18,800
Speaker 5: marathon or past marathons. I think this is our fifty first.

2187
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 5: You can visit filmspotting dot net slash marathons, Josh, that

2188
01:54:23,080 --> 01:54:23,559
Speaker 5: is our show.

2189
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 7: If you want to connect with us on social media,

2190
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:28,320
Speaker 7: you can find Adam and the show at Instagram and

2191
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 7: Facebook and letterboxed. He's at film spotting. I'm at those

2192
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 7: places as well as Larsen on film We are independently produced.

2193
01:54:35,880 --> 01:54:37,240
Speaker 3: And listener support it.

2194
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:39,720
Speaker 7: You can support the show by joining the film Spotting

2195
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:43,320
Speaker 7: Family at film spottingfamily dot com. That way you can

2196
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:46,520
Speaker 7: listen early. You can also listen ad free. Sam puts

2197
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 7: out a weekly newsletter. We record monthly bonus episodes, and

2198
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 7: you can get access to the entire show archive. If

2199
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:56,800
Speaker 7: you're interested in show t shirts or any other merch

2200
01:54:56,960 --> 01:54:59,520
Speaker 7: you could go to film spotting dot net slash.

2201
01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:02,840
Speaker 5: Shop in that Film Spotting archive lots so link later.

2202
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 5: Last year's hit Man nine to seventy, Apollo ten and

2203
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 5: a half, eight sixty seven, Where'd You Go? Bernadette seven

2204
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:11,760
Speaker 5: forty one, Everybody Wants Some five eighty one. Boyhood. That

2205
01:55:11,880 --> 01:55:15,200
Speaker 5: was a film Spotting Fix episode dedicated just to Boyhood

2206
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:19,280
Speaker 5: Before Midnight four forty nine, Bernie three ninety nine and

2207
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:24,400
Speaker 5: more outstreaming this weekend. Fear Street prom Queen. The It

2208
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 5: girls are fighting to win prom Queen, but when someone

2209
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:32,160
Speaker 5: new enters the race, others start to disappear without a trace.

2210
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 5: Susannah Soon from Red Rocket, Arianna Greenblatt from Barbie, Lily Taylor,

2211
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 5: and Katherine Waterston star also Fountain of Youth, treasure hunter

2212
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:45,080
Speaker 5: John Krasinski and a strange sister, Natalie Portman, assemble a

2213
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 5: team for an adventure in search of the object the

2214
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,040
Speaker 5: location of the title. We'll have to see or not, Josh,

2215
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:54,960
Speaker 5: it's directed by Guy Ritchie on Apple TV plus. You

2216
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:56,880
Speaker 5: can to fit that in before heading off to Japan.

2217
01:55:57,240 --> 01:55:59,760
Speaker 7: I mean sort of sounds like a plane movie, but

2218
01:55:59,880 --> 01:56:01,640
Speaker 7: I I don't know how the logistics of that work.

2219
01:56:01,960 --> 01:56:04,880
Speaker 5: I like Sam's note here, does this movie actually exist?

2220
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:09,360
Speaker 5: Impossible to exactly now. I know you're curious about this one.

2221
01:56:09,480 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 5: Pee Wee as Himself, a two part documentary about Paul

2222
01:56:12,360 --> 01:56:16,360
Speaker 5: pee Wee Herman Rubens. That's on Max Yeah, very interesting Limited.

2223
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:19,560
Speaker 5: You can see Jane Austen Wrecked My Life. An aspiring

2224
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:23,520
Speaker 5: author finds herself in some austin Esque romantic entanglements at

2225
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:27,000
Speaker 5: a writer's retreat. To be weird if they were Dostaievsky esque.

2226
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:31,280
Speaker 5: Aaron Newarth, our friend says, a charming French romantic comedy

2227
01:56:31,800 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 5: out wide. Leelo and Stitch, the live action edition directed

2228
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:39,160
Speaker 5: by Dean Fleischer Camp, who directed Marcel the Shell with

2229
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 5: Shoes on Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning is the big Dog.

2230
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:47,320
Speaker 5: Though out this weekend, Tom Cruise has reckoned for the

2231
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 5: last time, or so we are led to believe. Next week,

2232
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:53,920
Speaker 5: Michael Phillips is here. Am I The Final Reckoning and

2233
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:55,960
Speaker 5: our top five movie stunts.

2234
01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:58,640
Speaker 7: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Say

2235
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:00,920
Speaker 7: I'm Van Haggren without saying m and Golden Joe, this

2236
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:04,280
Speaker 7: show would it go? Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar

2237
01:57:04,680 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 7: Special thanks to everyone at wbeazy Chicago. More information is

2238
01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 7: available at wbeazy dot org. For Film Spotty nine, Josh

2239
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:13,480
Speaker 7: Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar.

2240
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:14,520
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening.

2241
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 8: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

2242
01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 11: Good fine, Well, the holidays have come and gone once again.

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Speaker 11: But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in

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Speaker 11: your life a gift, Well, midmobile is extending their holiday

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Speaker 11: offer of half off unlimited wireless.

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Speaker 5: You call it an early present for next year?

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Speaker 1: What do you have to lose? Give it a try

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Speaker 1: at midmobile dot com.

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Speaker 13: Slash Switch limited time fifty percent off regular price for

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Speaker 13: new customers up from payment required forty five dollars for

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Speaker 13: three month ninety dollars or six months one hundred and

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Speaker 13: eighty dollars for twelve month plan. Taxism Bees Extra office

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Speaker 13: Bees may slow after fifty gigabytes for month when network

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Speaker 13: is busy. See terms

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Speaker 8: Panably