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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: This is hot pursuit coming up on today's podcast, Multimillion

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Speaker 2: Dollar Whips. The market for new cars is sputtering, but

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Speaker 2: there's a feeding frenzy for collectible rides. We go inside

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Speaker 2: the auction market. Plus arn't Ellinghorst joins us a big

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Speaker 2: deal in automotive research. I grew up reading his notes

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Speaker 2: out of Isi. We'll probe him for his thoughts on

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Speaker 2: the industry and Porsche specifically as he restores and races

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Speaker 2: classic nine elevens. And we're going to talk about Hannah's

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Speaker 2: upcoming column without spoiling it for you. What is the

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Speaker 2: most important or impactful car of the century thus far.

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Speaker 2: It's a big question, and we'll just.

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Speaker 1: Exactly I can't wait to talk about it. But first

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Speaker 1: we have to talk about what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: auction market. And I feel like we have spoken about

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Speaker 1: it last week or two, but the hits just keep coming,

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Speaker 1: and it takes a minute to really wrap your head

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Speaker 1: around what is going on, and to like compare notes

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Speaker 1: with all these other analysts and hear what they're seeing

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Speaker 1: and the takeaway seems to be that we are in

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Speaker 1: like this weird growth moment for auctions. They seem to

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Speaker 1: be like double and triple last year's sales, especially led

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Speaker 1: by Ferraris. Of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've talked about the Gto, and as

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Speaker 2: a deep tease, you have booked David Lee, the buyer

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Speaker 2: of that thirty eight point five million dollar Bianco specially

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two Ferrari To fifty Gto, for our podcast

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Speaker 2: next week. So yes, that's coming up. But to me,

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Speaker 2: even more interesting, or it's evolved into an even more

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Speaker 2: interesting story, is the Enzo that sold a Kiss of

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Speaker 2: Me for almost eighteen million dollars, right. And it's interesting

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Speaker 2: on a few different levels, Hannah, because first of all,

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Speaker 2: this is like a new generation of cars bringing the

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Speaker 2: top dollar and you've been reporting on this for a

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Speaker 2: couple of years now, so that's not the point that

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Speaker 2: I think is most interesting. But you're seeing car the

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Speaker 2: values of the older cars that were the most collectible

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Speaker 2: previously start to come down. So for a Bugatti, you know,

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Speaker 2: type thirty seven or whatever, and even for the Gto,

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Speaker 2: like you may see lower prices in the future of

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Speaker 2: those pre war or sixties and seventies cars, as the

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Speaker 2: wealthy youth of today favors the eighties and nineties cars.

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Speaker 1: Well, yes, and I want to be very very careful

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Speaker 1: about how we frame this, because I know Steve Serio

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Speaker 1: and others will correct us if we don't get it right.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's accurate to say that those older

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Speaker 1: cars from pre war, certainly, but possibly even from the

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Speaker 1: fifties and sixties and seventies are falling off a little

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Speaker 1: bit in the interest around them. They are no longer

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Speaker 1: driving the growth in the market. What's driving the growth

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Speaker 1: our cars from the eighties, nineties and later, these so

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Speaker 1: called young timers or modern classic cars. But we need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we say that the best of

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Speaker 1: the best always have buyers, and that goes for whether

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Speaker 1: it's pre war that goes for whether it's a two

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Speaker 1: fifty gto that goes for anything that goes for portion

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Speaker 1: nine thirty turbos. The reason why this particular two fifty

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Speaker 1: gto sold for thirty eight and not the fifty million

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Speaker 1: plus that it had been asked for was because of

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Speaker 1: the car itself, not because of the market. And there

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Speaker 1: are a couple things that made this particular car less

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Speaker 1: desirable than a Gto that might be worth fifty to

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Speaker 1: sixty million. Namely, it's not an engine numbers matching. The

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Speaker 1: original engine is not in the car. It's not a

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Speaker 1: numbers matching car. It's never raced outside of Europe, right,

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Speaker 1: wrong drive. Yeah, that's that's a big thing too. And

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Speaker 1: it's white, which could be like a positive or negative

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Speaker 1: depending on how you look at it. And the virus.

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Speaker 2: It's the only white one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But there there's another argument that says, but like

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Speaker 1: reds classic like a Ferrari, should be red if fray

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be read so just because this Ferrari, Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's sold for a lot of money. It didn't sell

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Speaker 1: for as much as a lot of the other thirty

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Speaker 1: six GTOs are worth. But that's because of the car.

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Speaker 1: The car sold for what it was worth, so we

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Speaker 1: should say that. But to your bigger point, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: these super cars from the eighties and later. And I

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Speaker 1: also want to say, and we haven't talked about this,

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Speaker 1: about that yellow Inzo. A lot of these cars have

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Speaker 1: like crazy low miles on them, like this Enzo is

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Speaker 1: six hundred and forty nine miles. Period. There was that

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Speaker 1: f fifty that also sold at the same auction for

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Speaker 1: over twelve million dollars that had two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: two miles on it. Yeah, Like, and the thing we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is, and we talked about this on TV, there's

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Speaker 1: a growing contention of people who are using this purely

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Speaker 1: for investment. And I don't want to say speculation, but

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Speaker 1: it's these ultra low mileage cars that are getting bought

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Speaker 1: and I don't think we can expect that they're going

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Speaker 1: to get a lot of miles added to this.

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Speaker 2: So sad. Actually, well, somebody just there by the way

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Speaker 2: on bring a trailer. Right now, there are two twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six nine to eleven GT three tourings for sale.

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Speaker 1: How many miles do they have it on leg?

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Speaker 2: Like one of them has I think like thirty eight miles.

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Speaker 2: And a commenter said, oh, this, this is great. The

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Speaker 2: new owner can easily put two, three or even four

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Speaker 2: hundred miles on this car. Like it's so pathetic and sad.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why Portia allows people to flip cars

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Speaker 2: that way. I know it's you know, I'm coming from

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Speaker 2: the investment world. It should be NBD to me because

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Speaker 2: these are just assets at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: But it hurts somehow and it feels wrong. But the

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Speaker 2: Ferrari I think the Enzo is specifically interesting, maybe just

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Speaker 2: to me, because A I don't typically like yellow cars,

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Speaker 2: and I think it looks fantastic. B I've never really

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Speaker 2: liked an Enzo before, and now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: I desperately want an Enzo. And see there are so

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Speaker 2: many conspiracy theories kind of about why it went for

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Speaker 2: this much, and correct me if I'm wrong. But before this,

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Speaker 2: Enzo's were going for single digit millions, like half or less.

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Speaker 2: And so I heard Spike Ferrison say maybe there were

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Speaker 2: a few billionaires bidding next to each other and they

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Speaker 2: had been drinking and so.

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Speaker 1: Didn't Dave this morning. Dave from Mekham this morning said

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Speaker 1: there were about three very interested parties.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Dave, is that Dave Majors, the CEO of Meekham

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Speaker 2: also and they ran the auction. Also said that to

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Speaker 2: us this morning.

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Speaker 1: That's all you need, is too Really, that's true.

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Speaker 2: So Johnny Lieberman and others have floated this story, but

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Speaker 2: I heard it from him. The journalist said that he

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Speaker 2: heard the buyer already owned six Enzo's and was trying

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Speaker 2: to bring up the value with this bit on his seventh,

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Speaker 2: which would make sense because then another one sold for

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Speaker 2: like twelve million right after that, so.

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Speaker 1: They're not mutually exclusive theories there. And also we really,

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Speaker 1: I'm very very as a report, a very uncomfortable just

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Speaker 1: spouting repeating chatter just for the record for all our

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Speaker 1: listeners in this conversation, I am not participating in the

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Speaker 1: chatter because we don't know, well, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm never hesitant to share speculation as long as

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Speaker 2: I source sure you know where it's coming from. And

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Speaker 2: these are people who are incredibly active in the automotive industry. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: Spike Ferriston buys and sells a lot of very high

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Speaker 2: dollar cars.

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Speaker 1: Not this level though, maybe not, but I.

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Speaker 2: Think approaching it, and especially if he's buying for Jerry

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Speaker 2: or selling for Jerry, and he definitely advises Seinfeld on

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Speaker 2: those on purchases and sales, and you know, Johnny's like

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Speaker 2: sitting at the dinner table. So I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: think the speculation is a really fun part. And as

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Speaker 2: long as I say who it is and we make

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Speaker 2: clear that it's only speculation, I feel like it's fair

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Speaker 2: journalistic practice.

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Speaker 1: Can I pivot a minute? Yes, you know this is

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Speaker 1: an automatic transmission car.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought about that because Matt, yeah.

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Speaker 1: This like breaks all your rules. Well, no, you still

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Speaker 1: love it. It.

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Speaker 2: There can be I think it's fair to say there

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Speaker 2: can be double digit million dollar exceptions to the rule.

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Speaker 2: But I again I ran before I talked to Laurence Stroll.

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Speaker 2: I interviewed Laurence Stroll earlier this week because he owns

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Speaker 2: Aston Martin and Aston Martin F one and they had

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Speaker 2: their livery reveal. I again ran the numbers on Aston's

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Speaker 2: to find out in the secondhand market, you know, in

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Speaker 2: auctions and on you know, used car sites, the manual

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Speaker 2: transmission cars go for sometimes only forty to eighty percent more,

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Speaker 2: but often double or triple more than the automatic versions go.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're and obviously they're much cheaper, but if

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Speaker 2: you're looking for two thousand and seven vantage V eight,

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Speaker 2: you know, you can pick up an auto car for

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Speaker 2: like thirty grand, and if you want one with a stick,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be like fifty or sixty.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 2: The same is true of Ferraris at a higher price

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Speaker 2: point obviously, and Porsche's as well. Like, think about when

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Speaker 2: you're looking at nine six fours that are for sale,

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Speaker 2: you don't even consider the fact that there could be

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Speaker 2: a tiptronic in there, but there are sometimes and the same.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying that's the car itself could supersede your

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Speaker 1: desire for a manual?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Not not at that, No, not at that in

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Speaker 2: that generation?

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right.

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Speaker 2: But I know that happened to you at some point, because.

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Speaker 1: Well I've got to I'm are you talking about the Corvette.

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Speaker 2: No, Magnus Gotta, isn't turbo is first PDK car?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it happens, it'll happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's talk about what is pushing the collecting market

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Speaker 1: for a minute, because I think it's important to say

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Speaker 1: that there's no one thing, like everyone's been asking, what

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Speaker 1: is what is pushing Literally last year, every major auction house, Sotheby's, Gooding,

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Speaker 1: broad Arrow, even collecting cars and bottoms were all up,

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Speaker 1: and most of them were up by like double digit percentages.

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Speaker 1: Most were made record results last year. And the growth

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Speaker 1: is coming from interest in late model supercars like Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren, Bugatti,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, even Porsche. But I also think the influence

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Speaker 1: of social media and online auctions shouldn't be overlooked because

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Speaker 1: you and I know, social media content is at an

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Speaker 1: all time fever pitch, and it's so easy to look

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Speaker 1: at cars, and it's so easy to learn about cars,

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Speaker 1: and it's so easy to find other people who like

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Speaker 1: the same kind of cars you like. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that should be overlooked as a huge primary factor in

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Speaker 1: pushing the collector car market up. And then on top

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Speaker 1: of that, the online auctions and bring a trailer in space.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think you're spot on. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, we should point out to listeners that you

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Speaker 2: wrote a column about that. It went out this week,

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Speaker 2: and everybody I've talked to, even people who aren't car people,

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Speaker 2: are reading that and discussing it. Of course, with the

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Speaker 2: advent of bringing a trailer, I mean you, Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: me and Barry Ritholtz, and me and my neighbor Eric,

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Speaker 2: and me and my brother Luis. We're like sending bat

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Speaker 2: auctions to each other all the time. I know, sometimes

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Speaker 2: without comment I'll just send you know, no comment needed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also you know what I love about that, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, like with music, we all have songs that

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Speaker 1: we know we shouldn't like, but we do. It's a

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Speaker 1: guilty pleasure. Same with entertainment like TV. We know we

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Speaker 1: have shows that are we know aren't cool, but we

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Speaker 1: watch them anyway. Everybody has a car equivalent of that, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I like, what do you do you? What's your

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Speaker 1: guilty pleasure car that you know is wrong but you

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Speaker 1: don't care if you don't want to be right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't feel that bad about it, but like

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Speaker 2: I love the older generation Kia Soul for example.

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Speaker 1: What we have never spoken about.

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Speaker 2: It, I know, I know, but whenever I see like

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Speaker 2: a twenty tens Kia Soul on the street, I like

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Speaker 2: pointed out to my wife. I don't know why where

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Speaker 2: is this coming from? I don't know. I just I

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Speaker 2: like them, And then that is so weird. There is

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Speaker 2: a similarly small Renault. Everybody else likes the version that

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Speaker 2: has like eyes and eyelashes in the front, but I

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Speaker 2: like a different one. It's the rear engine like Compact Renault.

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Speaker 2: I can't even remember because I don't live in Europe

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Speaker 2: anymore and you don't see in America. But yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: that's about as bad as it gets for me.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's I mean, I the reason why I ask

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Speaker 1: is I feel like going back to bring a trailer.

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Speaker 1: When you start texting your friends cars that you're watching,

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Speaker 1: it kind of slowly comes out what your secret guilty

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Speaker 1: pleasure is because you end up sending those links to

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Speaker 1: those cars. But you have never sent me a link

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Speaker 1: to Akiya.

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Speaker 2: No, because I don't. I don't really I don't really

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Speaker 2: want one. By the way, the Renault is the TwinGo,

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Speaker 2: and that is talked about before. I actually would I

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Speaker 2: actually would buy a TwinGo if it was the right generation,

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Speaker 2: not the current one, not the first one.

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Speaker 1: I like the second one.

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Speaker 2: Cool. Listen, we have a lot to get to because

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Speaker 2: we have aren't Ellinghorst waiting in the wings? Uh? He

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Speaker 2: is to me one of the most important analysts in

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Speaker 2: the in the auto industry that I've followed, like Ellinghorstuh,

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Speaker 2: Adam Jonas, you know, Stevetime, Michael Dean. These are the

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Speaker 2: people that I that I uh, super smart, absolutely, and

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Speaker 2: he races a classic car at Lamal.

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Speaker 1: That is very cool.

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Speaker 2: So that's like, yeah, I want to be him someday,

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Speaker 2: you know. Plus, we're going to talk about your column

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Speaker 2: and we won't spoil it, but we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about the most important and impactful car of the century

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Speaker 2: so far. That's all coming up. This is Hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. We are happy to have

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Speaker 1: Aren't Ellinghorse joining us this week.

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Speaker 2: All right, So we just we just interviewed Dave Major's

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Speaker 2: the CEO of Mekam Auctions. And I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you saw the Meekum results from last month, but you know,

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Speaker 2: David Liebert CTO for thirty eight million, somebody bought a

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Speaker 2: yellow Enzo for eighteen million dollars, and a Signal Orange

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Speaker 2: nine eighteen sold for six So wow, pretty insane, right,

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Speaker 2: A Portia nine eighteen sold for six million dollars? That's crazy?

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Speaker 3: Is that the highest ever?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean you followed it mantlosi than I do.

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Speaker 3: But sounds like a.

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Speaker 2: Love Yeah, I mean, Hannah prefers the Karara GT.

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Speaker 1: Right, Wait when have I said? Are you joking? No?

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Speaker 2: You said you said you think the Kara GT is

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Speaker 2: the last supercar and I'm always like the nine eighteen

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Speaker 2: a supercar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sure, if you want to put it like that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would. I would not I would not call it

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Speaker 1: Night at nine eight, I'd call it a high end

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Speaker 1: sports car.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, what a snob.

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Speaker 1: I agree with, Thank you, Yes, I like you already.

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Speaker 1: This is this is going very well, dude.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk first, aren't. Let's start just by getting your

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Speaker 2: overview of the industry. Now, I followed everything you wrote

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Speaker 2: when you were at ISI and you were deep in it.

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Speaker 2: Then now you're running an AI company. So how deep

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Speaker 2: in it are you when it comes to the automotive

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Speaker 2: industry and results in the business.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you'll never leave it, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: a great industry. You suffer with the guy obviously, you know,

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Speaker 4: with everything that's been happening the last couple of years,

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Speaker 4: but you know it's yeah, I mean it's it's it's

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Speaker 4: a product that triggers a huge passion. So I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, I've never really fully left the space, and

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Speaker 4: with you know, with our tech company, with Quantco, we.

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Speaker 3: Engaged with some of the OEMs.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was very close to BMW for four years,

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Speaker 4: helping on a sort of advisory board. So yeah, I've

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Speaker 4: followed the industry quite closely. You know, asked me about

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Speaker 4: quarterly numbers. I know nothing anymore, which I think is great,

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Speaker 4: because that's sort of the painful thing as an analyst.

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Speaker 3: But now I've been following things.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but you didn't you work at Volkswagen and Audi

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Speaker 2: before you got into banking.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've you know, I've written my thesis at the

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Speaker 4: end of my you know, university with without and that's

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Speaker 4: what got me into the car space. And they've recommended

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Speaker 4: me to a junior management program at Volkswagen, which I've joined. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I left right after, you know, moving into finance.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, I've had a career in finance

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Speaker 4: and research for many, many years, which was great fun

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Speaker 4: and uh yeah, and they've got me into many boardroom

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Speaker 4: situations and obviously, you know, translating between the industry, the

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Speaker 4: capital market, engagement with investors during different times of cycles,

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Speaker 4: and you know, crisis moments, whether it's industry, economy or

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Speaker 4: company specific. I mean this, this industry has everything in

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Speaker 4: it that you can imagine if you're interested in, you know,

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Speaker 4: analyzing anything in the economy.

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Speaker 3: You get it all in autos.

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Speaker 1: Aren't you mentioned crisis moments. I we have to talk

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Speaker 1: about Portie right now. And obviously you have so much

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Speaker 1: history and background. I know you you are deep enthusiast

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Speaker 1: and owner and lover. Of course, we've seen the news

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Speaker 1: that Porscha may scrap the seven eighteen sort of Cayman

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Speaker 1: boxer EV line. Give us your perspective on what's where

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Speaker 1: Porsche is right now in its history and its future,

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Speaker 1: and what do you make of this announcement that they

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Speaker 1: may scrap that plan.

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Speaker 4: You look kinda I think, you know, in any company,

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Speaker 4: there are bumps on the road, you know, every now

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Speaker 4: and then, and I think Poster has just experienced such

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Speaker 4: a bump as with a perfect storm from an economy perspective,

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Speaker 4: whether that's you know, trade US dollar China. I mean,

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Speaker 4: they've headed all these guys right, And let's not forget

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Speaker 4: it's a company that's manufacturing in Germany, predominantly in Europe

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Speaker 4: and exporting into the world, so they can't hatch any

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Speaker 4: of their exposure.

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Speaker 3: So they're fully exposed.

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Speaker 4: And and you know, we're going full steam into EV,

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Speaker 4: hitting all the brakes on EV, and it's just really

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Speaker 4: tough for a company of that size. You know, we

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Speaker 4: talk about three hundred thousand cars roughly, so you don't

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Speaker 4: have the economies of scale that some of the other

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Speaker 4: OEMs have that can Hatch that power trains a bit better.

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Speaker 4: That can you know, be a bit more flexible. Porsche

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Speaker 4: it just doesn't have that. So, you know, I feel

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Speaker 4: for them. At the same time, it is you know,

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Speaker 4: as we all know, it's one of the greatest brands

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Speaker 4: out there, full stop, not just automotive. Right, So for

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Speaker 4: Porsche is still at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's a question of who do I expose you know,

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Speaker 4: which customers do I expose myself to?

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Speaker 3: Who do I want to be.

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Speaker 4: Rather than you know, oh my god, I have to

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Speaker 4: sell all these cars. I mean, it's really up to

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Speaker 4: management to decide who they want to be.

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Speaker 3: Do we want to be more a sports car company?

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Speaker 4: Do we want to be more? And suleau company? How

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Speaker 4: much performance do we want?

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Speaker 3: And you know, that's that's that's an adjustment.

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Speaker 4: And I think they're going through currently and they will

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Speaker 4: come out of it. You know, last year has been very,

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Speaker 4: very tough, but you know, and you know also you know,

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Speaker 4: ib O the business and suddenly you know, being exposed

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Speaker 4: to analysts and investors out there and trying to please

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Speaker 4: everyone that's also in new experience.

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Speaker 1: Right, you make such a good point. Sorry, I don't

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say, you make such a

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Speaker 1: good point that they are a great brand that makes

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Speaker 1: great products. And I think that's why this is so

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Speaker 1: surprising or shocking, because the assumption is that this is truly,

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Speaker 1: this is the king of the hill for many people.

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Speaker 1: Do you obviously it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Is there any way this where we are now could

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Speaker 1: have been avoided in your view? Or is it like

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Speaker 1: you say that this truly was. They were complete exposed

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Speaker 1: on every front and they could not have avoided being

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Speaker 1: at this place where we are now now.

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Speaker 3: I think of some of the things were probably self inflicted.

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Speaker 4: I think the company was probably getting a bit, you know,

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Speaker 4: overly self confident as we came out of COVID and

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Speaker 4: pricing in the industry went north, and suddenly you know,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, we're going to be a fifteen percent

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Speaker 4: marching company.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, we're going to be a twenty percent

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Speaker 3: marching company. Oh my god, we're the.

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Speaker 4: Greatest, you know, and they fell in love with themselves

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Speaker 4: probably a bit too much. And then this you know,

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Speaker 4: dual CEO structure with Oliver being CEO Volkswagen and Porsche,

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Speaker 4: which I think the Porsche families really ask him to

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Speaker 4: do so, they were probably not as focused as they

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Speaker 4: could have been. They fell in love, as I said,

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Speaker 4: with themselves a little bit. I think they definitely drank

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Speaker 4: a bit too much the ev kool aid, if you

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Speaker 4: asked me. So there were a couple of things clearly

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Speaker 4: that they could have avoided self inflicted pain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but looks it's always easy to say in hinscheid,

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's.

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Speaker 2: I will say. You know, I started working at Bloomberg

403
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Speaker 2: twenty six years ago. Uh I saddled up to my

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Speaker 2: desk in Frankfurt, Germany writing about the stock market, and

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Speaker 2: so we had like we would cover the biggest companies,

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Speaker 2: and we had little taglines for each one, and for

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Speaker 2: Porsche at the time, we would say the world's most

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Speaker 2: profitable car maker, because they were, you know, But I

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Speaker 2: I and Vetticane was, you know, the CEO, and I

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Speaker 2: knew people who knew some people in the Porsche family.

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Speaker 2: So and I love the cars obviously, so I was

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Speaker 2: very interested to follow. And it just seems to me

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Speaker 2: that the Porsche family as an own as an owner,

414
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Speaker 2: has made mistake after dramatic soap opera style mistake like

415
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Speaker 2: in fighting with PSH and trying to buy Volkswagen and

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Speaker 2: end up getting swallowed themselves. And now this journey into

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Speaker 2: electric and they're also not helped by the German like

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Speaker 2: board uh supervisory board rules, and it's just it could

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Speaker 2: be a movie, could be could be made about it,

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Speaker 2: but of course we all care more about the product

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Speaker 2: than than the business side. And aren't tell us about

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Speaker 2: your experience with nine to eleven's I see the poster

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Speaker 2: of is that your car behind you that you that

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Speaker 2: you race at Lamont? Looks like it?

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Speaker 3: And I think you have a Yeah that's a picture

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Speaker 3: from nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so tell us tell us about that specific

428
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Speaker 2: car because it's so cool and it must be a

429
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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of work to keep up with

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Speaker 2: that as much as as it is to cover the company.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a lot more fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Look, I mean we've we've picked up this god that

433
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 4: was driven by Jackie de Chammel, French driver and Philip

434
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: Fagon his co pilot in the nineteen sixty nine nineteen

435
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 4: seventy at Leamont, and they've quite successfully raised the car

436
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 4: and we brought it back to life and restored it

437
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 4: properly then got it, you know, back into the mall

438
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: for the first time in twenty eighteen.

439
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: Was it an Was it the original st or was it? Which?

440
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: Which nineties?

441
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: It's a bit it's a bit earlier.

442
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's from sixty eight and they basically bought the

443
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 4: tr kit from from from Porche which included the race

444
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 4: engine of the nine oh six, So it there's a

445
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: two twenty five false power engine having eight eight to

446
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 4: nine thousand. So it's it's great, great fun. But look

447
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 4: at the context of Lamont. You obviously the smallest guy

448
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: out there, right, and when we raised in Grid in

449
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 4: Grid five with all these you know, ninety seventeen Porsches,

450
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: GT fots, Lolas prototypes, it's yeah, it's quite interesting. You

451
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 4: feel it's slow and quite fast at the same time,

452
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: which is yeah, it's it's it's absolutely fascinating.

453
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: I love that race. I loved the car.

454
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: I loved slightly older ninety eleven's. I'm not I had

455
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: a nine six four RS once which I crashed in

456
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 4: Goodwood on a track day, silly me. But I really

457
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 4: enjoy raising these older cars a bit more. The lighter,

458
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 4: they're more lively, and you know they also give you

459
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 4: a bit of a warning when you overdo it, which

460
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 4: you know some of the older Porsches don't. And because

461
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 4: you know, you can't imagine I'm not a I'm obviously

462
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 4: not a great driver.

463
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: You know, that helps me a little bit.

464
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: Tell us how you really developed your love of cars.

465
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: I think I've read actually that you did not grow

466
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: up in an automotive family. You you didn't really grow

467
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: up watching motor sport. How did this life and this

468
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: car and all of this develop?

469
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: Sure, I read you had no TV.

470
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I was counting deep somewhere in Germany. No.

471
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: Look, I've had an older brother. He was restoring cars

472
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 4: in our garage and I helped him out. So I

473
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 4: was basically.

474
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, that was in Germany.

475
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 4: I was the little brothers standing you know, endlessly these

476
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: these peoples and common geas and other cars. So we've

477
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: been restoring cars and and look, my car first car

478
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 4: was a was a red people So I had a

479
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 4: passion for that, but I wasn't, you know, totally obsessed

480
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 4: with it. And you know, out of coincidence, I happened to,

481
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 4: you know, start working at Audi and then folks Argen,

482
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 4: so that developed off interest in the industry, and then

483
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 4: I moved into finance, becoming an analyst following the industry.

484
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: So with that, I think, you know, developed my passion

485
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: for the industry.

486
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 4: And then you know, also the passion for the cast

487
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 4: came back to me, I think at the time when

488
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: I probably had a you know, a bit more money

489
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 4: to spend to to to get an old nine to eleven.

490
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: And then you know, the fascination.

491
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: Of taking part at Lamont Classic is you know, I

492
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: think you don't have to explain too much about that.

493
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: That's just a huge fun event.

494
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: So you have this nineteen sixty eight nine to eleven

495
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: TR kit restored. And I've seen another old like late

496
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: sixties Porsche that I guess you drive around London. What's

497
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: the story with that one?

498
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a recreation of a similar you know, of

499
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: a TR. It's a short wheelbase.

500
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: You're pretty partial to this like late sixties tr.

501
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: I just love the whole.

502
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: History of guys, you know, you know, the passion to

503
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 4: raise sixties seventies. Usually they didn't have a lot of money, right,

504
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: and they were getting all the tools and all the

505
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 4: toys together. They were building up these racing engines. The

506
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: racing cars and then take them to race, and I

507
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 4: think that's just fascinating. They were always running out of

508
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: money and then you know, they crash something, and then

509
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: they build the car up again. So for me, I'm

510
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 4: not a you know, I'm not a matching you know, engine, gearbox,

511
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: everything has to been matching and in these cars. For me,

512
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 4: these are cars that are put together by racing drivers

513
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 4: and then they're you know, being being driven properly.

514
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: And in my in my in the orange white, call

515
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 3: it tr recreation. It's actually a two point seven liter

516
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: engine in there in there Do I care? No?

517
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 4: And it's great fun. It's it's great, great fun. And

518
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: I love that about the brand, right, It's that's what's

519
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 4: I mean. The essence of Porsche is always something you know,

520
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: call it rebel or you know, how do you want to.

521
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: Call it?

522
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: And then if I think about the brand, it's it's

523
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: probably become all a bit too much corporate.

524
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?

525
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 4: Yes? It does. I mean I think most people would

526
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 4: want Porsche it to be a bit more daring and

527
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: you know, a bit more yeah, I mean outdoor rebel

528
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 4: rather than you know, accountant, you know, is.

529
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: It is it even realistic to think that Porsche might

530
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: be able to get back to somewhere in that universe

531
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: that you're describing with its with its current ownership structure

532
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: and it's and it's current corporate structure. Is it even

533
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: realistic to think it could approach that mentality again?

534
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's that's a super important point in

535
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 4: my view. I mean, and nowadays they're selling what fifty

536
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: nine to eleven and then you know ten or so

537
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 4: a lot of d s cvs, right, so there's a

538
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: lot of soccer mom in there. There's not a lot

539
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 4: of a race driver in there anymore, but still the

540
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 4: brand is still a lot Steve McQueen, you know, game Steam,

541
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: at least.

542
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 3: In my condition.

543
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 4: And they have an interesting line in their current investor

544
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: deck which I think is a bit is wrong, and

545
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 4: I wouldn't agree with that. They say, it's not about

546
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 4: what you buy, it's what you buy into, right, And

547
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 4: and I do think it is really a lot about

548
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 4: what you buy, right, and what you buy is a

549
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: Porsche and there should always be a lot of sports

550
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 4: car daring, racing, rally rebel, that that is the essence

551
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: of the brand still and that that needs to be

552
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: really really looked after. So I think that there should

553
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: be and there should be and not just you know,

554
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 4: pimping up you know, a nine to eleven here and there.

555
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: It's it's like coming up with like proper performance, high

556
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 4: end performance costs, And I think that is something that's

557
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: that's missing in the portfolio and that that's missing.

558
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: In the brand.

559
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: By the way, what do you think even you know

560
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 4: it might cost you, It might cost you some marching,

561
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 4: but you know, I think.

562
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: I think that's more important.

563
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: What do you think aren't about other brands? Because we've

564
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: been talking a lot about you know, Ferrari, they have

565
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: increasingly become a very corporate and computerized, at least it

566
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: looks by their products, you know, like uh, car Maker,

567
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: there's there hasn't been a manual gearbox for like a

568
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: decade or two decades. Aston Martin also has gotten rid

569
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: of it completely, and their stock chart just goes down

570
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: into the left. Like I keep thinking, it can't get

571
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: any cheaper, and I want to buy the stock, but

572
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: then it gets cheaper and cheaper. What do you think

573
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: about other other brands? Like when you look beyond Porsche,

574
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: and I know you're probably super busy at work, and

575
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: you dedicate what little time you have to racing Lemon Classic.

576
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: But what do you think about? Do you have any

577
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: hope for other car makers or is anything else there

578
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: interesting to you?

579
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think you you have this. I mean you're

580
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: either really super super high end and you're a you're

581
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: a Bughetti or Kurnixac, You're you know, parts of Ferrari.

582
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: Really you sit in this ultra high end, ultra exclusive bucket,

583
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: or you're you're sort of where Porsche is.

584
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 4: And and Porsche has bits of elements of of a

585
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 4: BMW right the high end BMW SUVs.

586
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: I mean that price even you know, above the porches.

587
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 4: But I think Porsche is in a quite unique position

588
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 4: to sell that number of cars at that price point,

589
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 4: and that tells you a lot about the brand. And

590
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: you can see with s Martin how how difficult it

591
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: is to to replicate you know that look at the DBX.

592
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's just so tough to get where

593
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 4: Porsche is. So I'm not an expert really on Ferrari.

594
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 4: It's not a brand or product that would trigger me personally.

595
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 4: I mean, they're amazing, but I guess you know, I'm

596
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 4: just so much more of a Porsche guy. But when

597
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 4: I look at the economics behind these business models, I

598
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: think you're you know, you're either super high end and

599
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: you can charge millions for a car, which which very

600
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 4: few can, or you.

601
00:34:58,840 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: Know, you're Porsch.

602
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 4: Let's forget Posha does benefit being connected to the VW,

603
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 4: you know, industrial conglomerate.

604
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 3: That does certainly help.

605
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: I just looked. I was talking to Lawrence Stroll earlier

606
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: this week and I put it to him that they

607
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: make really beautiful designs. They're elegant, right, and Ferrari is

608
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: becoming more Uh. I don't even know what it is.

609
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: That's not brutal, but it's just weird. And I said, dude,

610
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: why don't you make a car with three pedals and

611
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: embrace like mechanical intimacy instead of technological supremacy. But I

612
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: think he was not having a great day and didn't

613
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 2: feel like answering.

614
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: He didn't take that bait, No, he didn't, But like.

615
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: Somebody has to come out something that's more analog, right, yeah.

616
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: Let me.

617
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I was I don't know whether you I'm

618
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 3: sure you saw that there was a top gale last

619
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 3: year where.

620
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 4: They got they got Macha Remac out, they got Christian

621
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 4: Kunikzak out and they got ropped from Singer out on

622
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 4: the track.

623
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: They all brought to car and raised their cars.

624
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 4: And obviously I mean I think Mark had brought a

625
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 4: Remark and he bought a Bugatti, and then the Kooning

626
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 4: Exact was there and they're all I mean lightning fast

627
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: and smoking wheels and I mean crazy acceleration, and I

628
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: think Rock brought a Tobo Singers I don't know, but anyhow,

629
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: I mean they've been raising these cars, but the biggest

630
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 4: smiles on their face were, you know, with this manual

631
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 4: Porsche flipping it around the track, you know, making great noise.

632
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: And I think that quite ask you something I couldn't

633
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 3: agree more on the you know, the comments you've made

634
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: on on the manuals.

635
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: I think at some point I wouldn't be surprised to

636
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: see what Marte does in the future. I mean, because

637
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: we know from his past he is such a car guy.

638
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: I mean with his BMW that he built, and in

639
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: any conversation we ever have with him, he too, Matt

640
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: supports your like die hard manual obsession. I don't think

641
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: it's out of the court, and he's been pretty open about. Unfortunately,

642
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: things like the Navara have not sold. People don't want him,

643
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: so I would. I don't think it's crazy to think

644
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: that Monte might come out of the blue at some

645
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: point and do something really fun, because he is like

646
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: that on the inside. It's a question of whether he

647
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: has to be financial and corporate freedom to do it.

648
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: But to your point, I mean, I would just be

649
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: I think he would agree with agree with you exactly

650
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: what you're saying.

651
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: Let's see what Let's see what happens. Let's see what

652
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: happens to Bugatti.

653
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: What Let me finally get your take onn't on electrification

654
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: because a lot of people slag off this podcast saying

655
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: that we don't like evs, which isn't true. I love

656
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: an electric power train in certain in certain vehicles, and

657
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: and they're obviously quick and very simple. You know, we

658
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: we've recently seen that car that can hang upside down.

659
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 2: They're going to start making and selling those. I think

660
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: it's a British car that has like a vacuum seal

661
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 2: under it, and they're so fast. But what's your take? Yeah,

662
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: what's your take on the electric electrification of vehicles? And

663
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 2: surely like in twenty years most cars will be electric, right.

664
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, you know for driving around for you know,

665
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 4: especially urban mobility. Electric is the technology to you know,

666
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 4: to go to you know, it's an EV fast.

667
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 3: Around the norch life. Yeah, you know, maybe.

668
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: Can we use EV you know, hybridization to increase the

669
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 4: performance of combustion engine and yeah, yeah, sure.

670
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: Sure I get it. For the environment. Look, I've been

671
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 3: covering the space for so long.

672
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 4: I've been making all the arguments about the value chain

673
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 4: of where the batteries come from and the minerals and

674
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 4: the energy and all that.

675
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: I'm still you know, I'm still a big fan of

676
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 3: hybrid vehicles.

677
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 4: If I'm honest, because I just don't believe in putting

678
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 4: these huge batteries into vehicles that are being driven, you know,

679
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: ninety percent around the block. You know, you just put

680
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 4: so much energy into the car that's not really being used.

681
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 4: So I think there's a lot of overkill to create

682
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 4: that range. I you know, I like range extenders as well,

683
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 4: but I think the industry is, you know, we're learning

684
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 4: and a lot more flexible, interesting platforms coming out that

685
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: make more sense.

686
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 3: We're just leaving this.

687
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: You know phase where everyone said, you know, all EV

688
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 4: only evs and then everyone said, oh no more evs.

689
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 3: We hate evs.

690
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 4: People sit down and look at what's you know what

691
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 4: really makes sense and that different powertrains. You need more

692
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 4: flexibility than the powertrain based on with the cors being

693
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 4: driven and so on.

694
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: So yeah, look, electrification makes sense.

695
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 4: Dude. If I want to have fun, I keept I

696
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 4: hope my eleven house and whether that's London or the more,

697
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: that's just great fun.

698
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: Very cool.

699
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: Well I think we both agree with you on that

700
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: one for sure.

701
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 2: Dude. Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

702
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. It's been a while, so I'm

703
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: glad to get in touch with you again. And next

704
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 2: time in London, I'll give you a show.

705
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: Thanks having you, guys our thanks to aren't Ellinghorse great

706
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: hearing from him. I learned something from talking to any

707
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: of these analysts. Love it coming up. Car of the Century,

708
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: welcome have to hot pursuit. Oh, Matt, I wanted to

709
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: ask you, okay, if you had to do like a

710
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: knee drik reaction to the Car of the Century, what

711
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: car would you say has had the most impact of

712
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: this century.

713
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: Of this century?

714
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah?

715
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,959
Speaker 2: Um, let me think you can.

716
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: Think about it and tell me. I'm asking a bunch

717
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: of people the.

718
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 2: Car of the century.

719
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: Introduced since two thousand.

720
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I'm thinking like I had a lot of

721
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 2: people would argue Tesla for sure, right because before Tesla, well,

722
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: the Model S was the first one that proved you

723
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: could have a viable electric car and people would buy

724
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: it and it would be drivable and you could make it,

725
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: you know, mm hmm. Yeah, so and that that kind

726
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: of I've changed a lot, right. I wouldn't say it

727
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: changed everything, because now we're there's some backlash, but it's

728
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 2: now every car maker offers an EV and that wouldn't

729
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: be the case if it hadn't been for I would

730
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: say the Model S. Yeah, do you think it would

731
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: be a different one like the Roadster or no.

732
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 1: So I'm writing a column about this, and I'm asking

733
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: a bunch of people, and if we want to, I'm

734
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: not going to reveal what I think is the car

735
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: of the century because I'm going to I'll save that

736
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: for the column if we're taping.

737
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 2: This good point.

738
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: But I hear, I hear what you're saying, and that

739
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: all makes a lot of sense. And I've already started

740
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: the column so for hindsight time stamping. This column is

741
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: already mostly written, so when it comes out you will

742
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: know that I had already written it before you giving

743
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: your answer. Matt, okay, But I have to say some

744
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: other people have said some do you want to go

745
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: through what?

746
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: Yes? Please? Because I think it. Uh, it's a big question.

747
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: And and you could make arguments for other vehicles.

748
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: Uh. I actually predated the models barely and has sold more.

749
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: Somebody said the Nissan leaf to me, which isn't It's

750
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: a valid.

751
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: Suggestion, right right, it is valid. But I think Tesla

752
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: really changed the way like the Nissan Leaf probably definitely

753
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 2: didn't and probably still wouldn't have had as much of

754
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 2: an impact on the way Mary Bearra thinks, or the

755
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: way you know, Jim Farley thinks. As you know, when

756
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: you talk to CEOs, they all refer to Elon Musk,

757
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: you know.

758
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: And then and the leaf didn't do that, even though

759
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: it actually beat the.

760
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: Model S one. No one's quoting Carlos gon No so

761
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: but you know, so you could. I'm sure you could

762
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 2: make arguments for other vehicles, and probably you could make

763
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: arguments for ones that aren't even in the American like

764
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: Zeitgeist because my mind also sort of went to F

765
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: one fifty, right, because you could say, like utilitarian, that's

766
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: not from this century. Okay, that's true.

767
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: Someone did say, here's for another conversation starter, the Porsche

768
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: Cayenne because it was the first wave of premium SUVs

769
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: and was a big bucket of profitability for Porsia, generated

770
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: a ton of cash that actually helped Porscha attempt to

771
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: take over BW. So there's that argument.

772
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: Did it.

773
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: Did it pre date the X five the Cayenne? Oh,

774
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: let me see see here.

775
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: No one knows anything anymore, We just google stuff, right,

776
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: it did not. The X five made its debut in

777
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, so I would you you know, in

778
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: my consciousness the X five was the first time I

779
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: thought of a luxury suv at least one that I

780
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: would have wanted and seen on the street and been like,

781
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: oh cool, an X five.

782
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 1: I mean the Kayenne, Like that is an interesting suggestion, true,

783
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: because I do think it helped save Porsia in a

784
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: very real way, which has had big, big ramifications.

785
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to ever wrap my head around

786
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: the fact that Porsche has had these problems in the

787
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: past and I know, like when I watch history of

788
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: nine to eleven's, people say, like, you know, certain generations

789
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: had to save the carmaker, or we view certain generations

790
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: differently now than we did during. I remember when I

791
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: first wanted to honestly buy a nine to eleven, when

792
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: I had like money and I was ready to go

793
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: out and get a car, and my my buddy was like, dude,

794
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: you should get one of these. And he was sending

795
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: me used nine six four classifieds at the time, and

796
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 2: I wanted the nine nine six because I thought that

797
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: the headlights looked cooler. I was like, no, I want

798
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: the new one because it has that strange like double headlights.

799
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Not admitted this, I know, but this was two thousand reactions.

800
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: This shows truly before you were influenced by all these

801
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: other Peanut Gallery your true reaction.

802
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: Was you did like it at the time. Yeah, when

803
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was, I was a kid,

804
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: I was in my early twenties. I like, just got

805
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 2: a job, and man, do I regret.

806
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: Have you seen not pulling the trigger one that Magnus

807
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: is telling Yeah, I know it's at too, because that

808
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: look that is a killer looking car. I know it's

809
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: a nine nine six. But literally when I saw it,

810
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, if Matt thinks he doesn't like

811
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: nine nine six, he hasn't seen this.

812
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: I still think I don't. I don't like the headlights.

813
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, I got an email from a

814
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: listener this morning who was like, dude, just pony up

815
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: and buy a new careerra tea and it's time em

816
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: I did, and I found one that I wanted and

817
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: I put it all together and my wife was like,

818
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: what planet do you live on? That's not happening. So

819
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: I still have to convince her.

820
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 1: But okay, let's go back to the topic at hands.

821
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I think, you know without spending hours

822
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: thinking about it, which I now will do since you

823
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: asked the question and I now will ask everybody that

824
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: I run into. This is my new question. Yes, But

825
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 2: my knee jerk reaction is the Models, because I think

826
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: it changed the car world completely.

827
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: Even though the Roadster was before it. Obviously the roadster

828
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: was built on a lotus.

829
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: Yes, the Roadstore was before it, but it was still

830
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: like a kit car feeling kind of thing. I remember

831
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: the first time I ever droven one with Jason Harper.

832
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 2: We went up to Bear Mountain and barely made it back,

833
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 2: you know, and that was kind of that was part

834
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: of the fun.

835
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: That's a good story.

836
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: But the model as was a legitimate car, like a

837
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: real OEM product, And for years, if not decades before that,

838
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, people would talk about electric cars, and my friends,

839
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: you know, in high school would like get high on

840
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: the porch and say, man, big Auto is just trying

841
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: to stop us from doing electric because of the gas industry,

842
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: you know, and like it's the man, yeah exactly, And

843
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: Tesla was the first one to really stick it to

844
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 2: the man with that.

845
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Well, if we're talking electric,

846
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: what about something like the La Ferrari, which was like

847
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: what like you could argue that was the first model

848
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: that really used electrification for superior performance, not just oh

849
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna save the world. What's your thought on that?

850
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: Someone else suggested Kyle Stock. Actually I'll give him credit.

851
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 4: Stock.

852
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 2: So my take on that is before the La Ferrari

853
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: came the portion of nine eighteen Spike.

854
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: Sure, well, Kyle also did mention that too.

855
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: He sent me a few ideas, so and there was

856
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: a whole the McLaren p one, the La Ferrari in

857
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: the nine eighteen. But for me, the nine eighteen was

858
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 2: the first time that I really thought about the fact

859
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: that you could do hybrid and not care at all

860
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: about the environment. Like it wasn't yes, it didn't need

861
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: to be green at all. It was just for perform

862
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: It could have.

863
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: Actual benefits unrelated to whatever marketing campaign.

864
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I ended I never loved the look of

865
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: the La Ferrari.

866
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 4: Well you are.

867
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: Really if you're feeling a little anti Ferrari.

868
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 2: No, no, I was just going to say, I never

869
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: I remember. The only time I have seen one up close,

870
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: really was I got into Sergio Marcioni's well that's the

871
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: and mic drop and I didn't like the look of it.

872
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: And I at the time I remember not liking the

873
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: look of the Enzo either.

874
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, how can you say? And

875
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: I just heard you say this. You never knew you

876
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: wanted an Enzo so bad until you saw that yellow

877
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: and it sold for eighteen million?

878
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: True, because now it looks like you're right. You're right, dude,

879
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: tastes change over time, right, Yeah, you're so. I well, no,

880
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: or I mean maybe it'll change again in ten years,

881
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: Like I don't know ten minutes. I I also didn't

882
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: like The Grateful Dead when I first heard them, and

883
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 2: now they're my favorite band. And you know, there's I

884
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: think everyone has ever changing tastes. And now when I

885
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: look at the Enzo, it just looks so cool and different,

886
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: and it looks almost wrong, like they put the accidentally

887
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: put the wrong rear end on a different front end.

888
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: But I love the way it turned out.

889
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't think. I don't think we could

890
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: have a La Ferrari without an Enzo.

891
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you. A hundred percent fun to

892
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 2: think about, you know it is what are some of

893
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: the other answers that people have given you?

894
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so Nissan Leaf, Tesla Roadster, La Ferrari nine eighteen.

895
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: We're a couple. Cayenne, do you know, Michael Dean are Yeah, yes,

896
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: all Michael suggested the Cayenne. Actually, he also wanted to

897
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: throw in his vote for the sls AMG, mostly because

898
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: I think he was in Stutgart when he was emailing me. No,

899
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: he just loves it, He just loves it. And then

900
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: he also wanted to say the nine to nine to

901
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: one because it took the nine to eleven to a

902
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: new level. Of pricing. But I think that's splitting Harrison.

903
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: We can't include the nine to eleven in that.

904
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think La Ferrari or portion nine

905
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: nine to one can go down his car the Century.

906
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: Okay, here's one more. Here's one more that could be polarizing.

907
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: Also from Michael, the culin in Rolls Royce because it's

908
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: so ridiculous and how it looks and how much it weighs.

909
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: But it turned around the four of Rolls Royce and

910
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: says Michael, he kind of loves it.

911
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 2: Okay, but the Bentley ben Taga came before that, and

912
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: it's even more ridiculous looking.

913
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't good though, No when it first came out.

914
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: And that's an actual fact.

915
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: I mean, is Coulinan, I've never driven a Oh you

916
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 2: would love it. I'm a huge fan of I'm a

917
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: huge cars and yeah, I've never driven one of those.

918
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: They're really I mean, not to brag, but I first

919
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: drove it in Jackson Hole up in Black Diamond Ski

920
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: run nice, and then I drove it in a rally

921
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: in Death Valley for like four days in the desert,

922
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: completely off road. It's very it sounds insane and you know,

923
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: I would say if it wasn't good, because the Bentaga

924
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: was not good, but it is very capable.

925
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: By the way, you don't like the Benaga in terms

926
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: of the way it drives, the way it's or just

927
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: the way it looks.

928
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 4: And the name.

929
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: Well I'm talking about when it first came out. They

930
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: have greatly improved it. And I just drove the speed

931
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: last year and it was really nice. But when it

932
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: first first first came out years ago, no, I I

933
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: it was not good. It wasn't ready, it was awkward,

934
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't good.

935
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: So I think for you, going back to your column,

936
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 2: the only two that makes sense to me are cars

937
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: that have changed the way we you know, the industry

938
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: operates today. Sure, and the Tesla model ass I think

939
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: is a clear winner for changing every the way every

940
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: car maker operates pretty much. And the Cayenne is like

941
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: a runner up because it is the precursor to the

942
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: cervification of all cars, right.

943
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: I meanation, yeah, yeah, you know what you mean.

944
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 2: You know, FOURD doesn't even really sell cars anymore. They're

945
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 2: all SUVs or trucks. Okay, they sell the Mustang, thank god,

946
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 2: and please keep making that. But so those two make

947
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: sense to me, but none of the others really do.

948
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: Okay, well, stay tuned my column with a bit of luck,

949
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: and we do have a long weekend coming up when

950
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: I will not writing but should be out next week,

951
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: maybe we can talk about it.

952
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 2: Very cool.

953
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does it for this week's show. Remember to

954
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and

955
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 1: anywhere else you listen. You can also send us your comments.

956
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 1: Email us at Hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net.

957
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 2: And check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg dot

958
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 2: com and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews,

959
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: events and stories that you won't find anywhere else. Find

960
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: it all at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Pursuits, slash autos,

961
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 2: including this week her Call Them on Collector Cars and

962
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 2: next week her Callum on Car of the Century.

963
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott. We'll be back

964
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: in your podcast speed again next week.