1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My

2
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,280
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey are you welcome to Stuff to Blow

3
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: Your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick,

4
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 1: and we're back with part two of our Invention series

5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: on the history of document duplication and fac simile technology.

6
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 1: If you haven't heard part one yet, what are you

7
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: doing here? You might want to go back and listen

8
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 1: to that one first, But I guess before we get

9
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: started today we could do a brief refresher on what

10
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: we talked about in the last episode, so uh Rob.

11
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 1: We discussed the emergence of document based culture and business, politics, religion,

12
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 1: and society through the ancient world, and some examples of

13
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,840
Speaker 1: ways that ancient people and people in documents scarce environments

14
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 1: might think about documents and copying differently than we would

15
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: tend to think about those subjects today. We talked about

16
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 1: the long history of the scribe, a figure of a

17
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,399
Speaker 1: vast importance who usually spend most or even all of

18
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: their time merely copying documents. We discussed some early labor

19
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 1: saving devices designed to duplicate documents without the need for

20
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 1: hand copying. Of course, you know most copying since since

21
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 1: the invention of writing has been done not by machines

22
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 1: but by scribes or human copy is having to make

23
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: copies of books and letters and everything by hand. But

24
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 1: these early labor saving devices included things like the so

25
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 1: called polygraph, not the Lie detector test, but this was

26
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: a name for a device designed to produce an exact

27
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,760
Speaker 1: copy of a handwritten document at the time of its

28
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: origin by transferring the movement of your pin through a

29
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 1: system of levers to a second pin writing on a

30
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: second piece of paper. Uh. And then also we talked

31
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: about things like the copy press or the letter copying press,

32
00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: which refers to a family of related device is which

33
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,600
Speaker 1: I'll operate on the principle of moistening a very thin

34
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: piece of paper and then smashing it against an original

35
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: document in a gigantic clamp or sometimes in a kind

36
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 1: of press or roller to cause some ink to bleed

37
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,320
Speaker 1: through from the original document onto the copy paper, giving

38
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,920
Speaker 1: you a copy to keep for your records. And we

39
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 1: talked about how versions of the copy press were widely

40
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: used throughout the nineteenth century and even somewhat into the

41
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,919
Speaker 1: twentieth century, though they will start to overlap with other

42
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 1: technologies and and uh, duplication and facsimile solutions that we'll

43
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 1: be talking about today. Now, I wanted to throw in

44
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: a quick note about Facsimile's uh we do. We titled

45
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: these episodes facsimile, and I thought we might point out

46
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:49,080
Speaker 1: that you get into the idea of duplications and duplicated documents,

47
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: but then there is the realm of of facsimiles, which

48
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,800
Speaker 1: is where you're really getting the idea of something that

49
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,959
Speaker 1: is supposed to be a perfect copy, a perfect reproduction

50
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: of a given text um. And this this can be

51
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: seen in the Latin. The Latin is to make a

52
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 1: like uh, and it forms the root of the of

53
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 1: the fac simile that is referenced in the in the

54
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: word fax machine, though a fax machine doesn't really produce

55
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,960
Speaker 1: a true fac simile because this generally again this gen

56
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 1: generally denotes a copy that is perfect or as close

57
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 1: to perfect as possible in every regard, and in some

58
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 1: cases we're talking about not merely the contents of the text,

59
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: but the way in which it is written, illustrated, and

60
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 1: even bound. In some cases, so a fac simile is

61
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 1: especially useful if the original is both highly desired in

62
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: its original form but also fragile, exceedingly rare or valuable,

63
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 1: not ideal for wider use or travel. Um. They're numerous

64
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 1: examples of this, but but one that I was looking

65
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 1: at just yesterday. I mean not the book itself, obviously,

66
00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 1: but as an example. There's this book called the Codex Gigus,

67
00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,760
Speaker 1: and it is the largest extent medieval illuminated manuscript. It

68
00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 1: was created in the thirteenth century, and it is thirty

69
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: six inches or cimeters long, and it also contains a

70
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 1: full page portrait of the devil. Um So I included

71
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: a photograph of a fac simile of this manuscript for

72
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 1: you to look at here. Joe, Oh, yes, I've seen this.

73
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 1: I've seen this devil illustration before. And a funny note

74
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,360
Speaker 1: on on originals and copies. I think when I've seen

75
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: this before, the comparison that happened in my mind is, oh,

76
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,160
Speaker 1: that's similar to the illustrations of Terry Gilliam, like the

77
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: ones that appear in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

78
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 1: But actually I think I've got the continuity backwards there,

79
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,600
Speaker 1: don't I. So I guess probably Gilliam was trying to

80
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 1: imitate some of the medieval illustration style, like we would

81
00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 1: see here like this looks kind of like the the

82
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: beast in the cave in the Holy Grail, but the

83
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 1: beast in the Cave is probably somewhat imitating this sort

84
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,719
Speaker 1: of drawing. Yeah, this devil has a wild and comedic appearance,

85
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 1: at least to modern He's he's pretty, he's pretty narn

86
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: It looks like he could be on the bottom of

87
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 1: us of a skateboard or writing a rat fink car

88
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 1: around you know. Um, there are other great examples I

89
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: think of of modern facsimiles. For instance, the poetry of

90
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 1: of William Blake. Uh. These were originally printed from copper plates.

91
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 1: They were hand colored. And certainly you can read the text.

92
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: You can read. You can just you know, look up

93
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: the text of a poem by William Blake on the Internet,

94
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 1: read it in a simple text format and and it

95
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: will be great. I mean, the poetry, uh, you know,

96
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,279
Speaker 1: does not lose anything via its transformation into modern text. Likewise,

97
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,480
Speaker 1: you can just pull up the illustrations and look at those.

98
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: But the originals were unique and they provided a distinct

99
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,360
Speaker 1: reading experience, So one can understand why the facsimile experience

100
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 1: is still desired. And yes, you can still get facsimiles

101
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 1: of William Blake's original publications, And of course the same

102
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 1: is true of various historic illuminated manuscripts, where the book

103
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: itself is a work of our art. The same can

104
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,200
Speaker 1: be said of various historic government documents. And uh, you know,

105
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 1: if you get into the realm of fiction, I guess

106
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 1: you could also say that you would desire a facsimile

107
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 1: of certain books that do great harm, like the Necronomicon,

108
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,919
Speaker 1: the Book of the Nine Gates, the Kingdom of Shadows,

109
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: of the Book of Sand, something like that. Or maybe

110
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: you wouldn't. Maybe the strange things that make them dangerous

111
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: are only going to be found in that singular text,

112
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,960
Speaker 1: and maybe each in their own way. These are commentaries

113
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: on the the desirability of a singular text, of having

114
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 1: that book in your hand that has some sort of

115
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,800
Speaker 1: history that reaches back through time in a way that

116
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,719
Speaker 1: it hasn't been translated, it hasn't been transformed by a scribe. Yes,

117
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: and of course the idea of making exact copies of

118
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: a page as it as it looks in its original

119
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 1: form would become much easier later on with digital effects.

120
00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 1: Simile in duplication techniques and and even to some extent

121
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 1: with like zuographic techniques, which we'll talk about later in

122
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 1: this episode, that those would probably often not be producing

123
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: perfectly faithful or full color copies, they would at least

124
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: give you, uh the gist of the appearance of an

125
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 1: original page rather than just say the the code of

126
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 1: the text appearing on that page. Speaking of codes, I

127
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 1: thought it might be good, especially before we sort of

128
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 1: leave the ancient world behind us and and continue to

129
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 1: talk about more recent inventions in the world of document

130
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: reproduction and duplication. Uh yeah, I thought we might talk

131
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 1: about some of the the origins of document security. So

132
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 1: in our last episode we did mention the use of

133
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: sealed envelopes on tablet tablets and Mesopotamia. This, of course,

134
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 1: is one way to secure a document and make it

135
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 1: so that no one can read it without making it

136
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 1: blatantly obvious that somebody did so. But another way is

137
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,239
Speaker 1: of course, to keep the information itself, which is sometimes

138
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 1: referred to as the plain text, secret by encoding it.

139
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 1: In this we turned to the realm of encryption, and

140
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: encryption dates back to ancient Egypt, at least as far

141
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: back as nineteen hundred b c. E h. This, according

142
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 1: to anthropologist Brian Fagan, working with writing historian Andrew Robinson,

143
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 1: has written some uh some some wonderful books about the

144
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 1: history of writing UM. This has pointed out in the

145
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 1: seventy Grade Inventions of the Ancient World UM. But military

146
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: cipher's date back to around the fifth century BC in Greece,

147
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 1: where they were used by the Spartans, and the substitution

148
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,440
Speaker 1: cipher was used by the Romans during the first century CE.

149
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,679
Speaker 1: So the examples that Fagan and Robinson bring up UM

150
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 1: in in this brief chapter in the seventy Grade Inventions

151
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: are really quite interesting. So first of all, the Egyptian example,

152
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: this wasn't actually used to send messages, but rather as

153
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: a way of encoding multiple readings into a single um

154
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 1: stela of hieroglyphics, which meant that it was all about

155
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: just challenging the reader. You can think of it as

156
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 1: just sort of encryption, uh, merely for I wouldn't say

157
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: entertainment purposes, but without any true practical purpose. Well, I

158
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't discount the entertainment function. I mean, one of the

159
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: most entertaining things is to have the sensation that you

160
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: have discovered a secret, meaning there there are there are

161
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 1: whole genres of literature based around this. Now, the Spartan

162
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 1: example is really neat because the Spartan Uh, the Spartans

163
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 1: made use of a special staff kyled a scattally and uh.

164
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,559
Speaker 1: And yes, Dune fans out there, this is the name

165
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,079
Speaker 1: of the of the face dancer character of the Talilaxa

166
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: that shows up in Doom Messiah, which is rather fitted.

167
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 1: But this would be the way the system works is

168
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: you would have this special staff, the scattally, and then

169
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: you would have a leather strip that would be wrapped

170
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 1: around this, you know, specific wooden staff in a spiral

171
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 1: fashion without overlap. Um. I hope everybody can picture that

172
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 1: in your head. Otherwise you can just look up an

173
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 1: image of this. It's s c y T A l E.

174
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: Then what you would do is you would write your

175
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 1: message horizontally down the staff. UM. So you know, here's

176
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,560
Speaker 1: the staff. If you had if you had the staff

177
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 1: with this wrapping around it, and you laid it out

178
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,960
Speaker 1: on the table in front of you while there would

179
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 1: be your message across it, and then you could you know,

180
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: sort of roll it almost like a like like the

181
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,320
Speaker 1: roller of a typewriter to see other lines of text. Okay,

182
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,840
Speaker 1: Once that message is in place, you unwind the strap,

183
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 1: which now is just going to be nonsense if you

184
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: try to read it. If you try and read it,

185
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, as a as a ribbon of of text,

186
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be nonsense. And you can't just wrap

187
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,800
Speaker 1: it around any staff, uh and uh and reproduce it.

188
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 1: First of all, you have to know you know how

189
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 1: it's to be wrapped, and then you need a staff

190
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: with the exact same diameter. And so this is what

191
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,959
Speaker 1: is called a transposition cipher. Okay, so this is basically

192
00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,160
Speaker 1: a nu miracle cipher for unlocking the code. But the

193
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 1: cipher is based in the circumference of the staff in

194
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: your hand. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, tied up with this this

195
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 1: physical key to unlock the code. Though, to be clear,

196
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 1: transposition ciphers don't necessarily need a stick or you know,

197
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 1: but this is this is the earliest example we have

198
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: of this sort of thing. The Romans, however, again, they

199
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,960
Speaker 1: made use of a substitution cipher, in which your symbols

200
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 1: are replaced by new symbols, usually via a certain algorithm,

201
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: and it can be a very simple algorithm. The basic

202
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,839
Speaker 1: version of this as used by the Romans would be

203
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 1: to list out all the Latin letters and then sub

204
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 1: each one out for a letter three down from its

205
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: current position. Uh. And this was exactly the system that

206
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 1: Julius Caesar used. Now this makes me think about how

207
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: security issues with the contents of sensitive documents have really

208
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 1: changed since the ancient world, when documents themselves were scarce.

209
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, there you could say, Okay, I will imagine

210
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 1: there's a sensitive document. Maybe you don't want certain people

211
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,160
Speaker 1: seeing it, you don't want people making unauthorized copies of it,

212
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 1: you don't want people making changes to it. For whatever reason.

213
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 1: You need to keep that documents secure. It's a lot

214
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 1: easier when there's just one fixed physical form of that

215
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: document to start with. Uh. We live in a totally

216
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,439
Speaker 1: different world now, right. We live in a world of limitless,

217
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: lossless copying in which most documents are digital, and that

218
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: unleash is completely different concerns about security, because you can't

219
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: look at where the one original physical copy of the

220
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: document is. If the original is digital, you can assume

221
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 1: that there is pretty easy copying of it or of

222
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 1: the information in it, and it can be really difficult,

223
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 1: especially given all of the other technology we have to

224
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: put limits on that, Like, people can try to do

225
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,680
Speaker 1: things like password protect access to documents, encryption for for

226
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 1: the retrieval of sensitive documents and stuff like that. But uh,

227
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got a camera in their phone and

228
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So even if like you're in a

229
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 1: secure location looking at a document that's for your eyes only,

230
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,800
Speaker 1: if you've got your camera, you can take a picture

231
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: of the screen. I mean, we just live in a

232
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,439
Speaker 1: completely different environment when it comes to the sensitivity of

233
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: document contents. It's a lot harder to keep a lid

234
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 1: on things today. But assuming you trust the person who's

235
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: actually looking at the document not to take pictures of

236
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 1: it and share them with whoever. H there are tools

237
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: available today that I guess we're not available at this time,

238
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,439
Speaker 1: such as the stuff we're just mentioning, you know, uh,

239
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 1: password protection, encryption and digital gating of access to documents

240
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,560
Speaker 1: and things like that. So, in a weird way, like

241
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: access has become easier than ever to control, but also

242
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 1: harder to control in the in the strictest possible sense.

243
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: So the examples that bring up here, you know, largely

244
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: just sort of provides basic bedrock of of encryption. You know, Obviously,

245
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 1: the ages in which these were you it was a

246
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: different it was a different time. Um and uh and

247
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 1: if memory serves um. Fagan and Robinson also pointed out that,

248
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, you just don't see as many examples of

249
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 1: encryption in the ancient world as as you might expect

250
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,079
Speaker 1: to find because it's as we as we related, documents

251
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: were important. These these empires and um and and kingdoms.

252
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,840
Speaker 1: They they they were run on documentation. Uh and so

253
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: you would think you would see more examples of encryption.

254
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 1: But uh, maybe part of that is just a lot

255
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 1: of times you're dealing with singular documents and uh and

256
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, something far removed from what we have in

257
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 1: the modern world. Yeah. So there's a physical scarcity, there's

258
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: only a single original document to begin with. But I

259
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 1: guess also there is lower lower levels of literacy means

260
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: that means there is less opportunity for someone to read

261
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 1: this sensitive document. There's more I want to come back to,

262
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 1: actually later in this episode about how the world has

263
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 1: changed when we transition from documents scarcity to not only

264
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: document abundance but probab document overload. But but I guess

265
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: before we get there, we should talk more about the

266
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 1: history of these document duplication and facsimile technologies than so

267
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 1: picking up after the example of things like the copy

268
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 1: press that we talked about in the last episode, what

269
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 1: took over before we got to things like computers in

270
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 1: the modern photocopier. Well, I think it is time to

271
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 1: talk about carbon paper. Yes, so carbon paper was. In fact,

272
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 1: I've used carbon paper, you know. This is not something

273
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 1: that completely vanished but before we were born in I

274
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 1: remember I've had some jobs where actually had to do

275
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: stuff on carbon paper. This was in the twenty one century. Yeah,

276
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: not at how stuff works, right, I don't remember most

277
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 1: ever having to write articles on carbon paper. But so, okay,

278
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: carbon paper was invented long before it became a dominant

279
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 1: player in the document duplication world throughout office settings and stuff.

280
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 1: And there are many variations, but basically all carbon paper

281
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: works something like this. You have the carbon paper itself,

282
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 1: which is a thin piece of paper covered on one

283
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 1: side with some kind of ink or pigment, often bound

284
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: to the paper with wax. And then to use the

285
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: carbon paper, you would create a stack of at least

286
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: three sheets of paper lined up on top of one another,

287
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: so you'd have the original paper copy on top and

288
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: then you'd have the carbon paper in the middle underneath that,

289
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 1: and then you'd have the paper you intended for the

290
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: second copy on the bottom. So you write or type

291
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 1: your message on the top sheet, and as you do,

292
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 1: the pressure from your pencil or pin bearing down, or

293
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 1: the pressure from the type bars of a typewriter striking

294
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,120
Speaker 1: the page will cause the dried ink or pigment on

295
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: the back of the carbon paper sheet to leave a

296
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: mark on the copy page underneath. So the work of

297
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 1: making one copy creates a second copy automatically. The pressure

298
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 1: pushes the pigment through and it imprints on that second page.

299
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 1: Credit for the invention of carbon paper is often given

300
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: to an English inventor named Ralph Wedgewood because of an

301
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: eighteen o six patent he received for an invention called

302
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,920
Speaker 1: the manifold style a graphic writer h So this is

303
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 1: an invention that, like the polygraph, drew the interest of

304
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson, and in a letter to Charles Wilson Peel

305
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: in eighteen o nine, remember Charles Wilson Peel was the

306
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: guy who perfected the design of the polygraph, Jefferson complained

307
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 1: that the carbon paper only really worked if you wrote

308
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: with a hard pointed stylus on a hard surface, which

309
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 1: I guess he didn't like to do, and also complained

310
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: that quote the smell of the paper is so fetted

311
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: that one could not stay in a room where there

312
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: was much of it. This is something we'll come back

313
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,920
Speaker 1: to numerous times here. But uh, we were so far

314
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 1: removed from this for the most part in today's world,

315
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,199
Speaker 1: Like we don't think about the uh, the fact that

316
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 1: you might need to open a window or have proper

317
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: ventilation in a room if you're going to be engaging

318
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: in the work of the scribe and or any kind

319
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 1: of document duplication. But this seems to be the case.

320
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 1: You see this reference to, you know multiple times. Yeah, well,

321
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 1: I mean so a lot of these methods would produce fumes.

322
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,119
Speaker 1: Though it's funny he's complaining about the smell here. Some

323
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 1: of the technologies we're going to talk about in a bit,

324
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: I guess they would have been using different kinds of

325
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: dyes or inks or something produce smells that that many have.

326
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 1: Many people today is still alive today have great nostalgia

327
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 1: for if you found the part of the internet where

328
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,240
Speaker 1: everybody's just like, oh, I miss the smell of the mimiograph. Um.

329
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 1: I did not find that part of the Internet, but

330
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 1: I did find some wonderful videos with people demonstrating some

331
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: of these uh uh these techniques, which I found very

332
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: helpful because some of the techniques we end up talking

333
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: about there there may be a little difficult to picture

334
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 1: in your mind. Uh, but if you see someone doing it,

335
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I can I can

336
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: see what's what what they're doing there. I see the acess.

337
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 1: I see how this is producing a duplication of text. Yeah,

338
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 1: we'll try to be as clear as we can to

339
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 1: help you picture it. But yeah, looking up videos is

340
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 1: always helpful. Um. So, carbon paper was not like a

341
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: photo copier. Again, you could not mechanically produce copies of

342
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: a pre existing document. Instead, it was more like the

343
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 1: polygraph machine. It was an invention that would allow you

344
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 1: to produce extra copies of a document at the point

345
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 1: of the documents composition or at the point of the copying.

346
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: You know, it takes writing or typing in order to

347
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 1: make the copies that will give you extra copies. But

348
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 1: assuming you're either composing in the first place or you're

349
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 1: able to type or rite out a copy by hand,

350
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: you actually didn't have to stop at that single carbon

351
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: paper sandwich and it's single extra copy. You can actually

352
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: create a stack of carbon paper sandwiches, so you'd have

353
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: original on top, then carbon paper than the paper for

354
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: the first copy, then carbon paper than paper for the

355
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: second copy, and so forth. But as you might imagine,

356
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: the quality of the copies deteriorates pretty rapidly the further

357
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: down the stack you go, So there was a technical

358
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 1: limit to how many copies you could duplicate from a

359
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: single original if you cared about them being legible. I

360
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: think anyone who has used a physical checkbook can probably

361
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: understand what we're getting at here, because the physical check

362
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 1: book will often have those carbon pages. That that mean

363
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 1: that when you write out that check, you have an

364
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: automatic copy of it underneath on the carbon sheet. However

365
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 1: you can it's not going to be as clear as

366
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 1: your original check it's going to be, you know, very legible.

367
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: You can imagine if you had multiple layers, uh, you

368
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: know that there are going to be huge limitations about

369
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: how deep you can go. Apparently, the use of carbon

370
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: paper became even more pronounced starting in the late nineteenth century.

371
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: Around the eighteen seventies, or eighteen eighties with the spread

372
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: of typewriters. Since you know the hard punch of a

373
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: typewriter key, when that bar hits the page, that's pretty

374
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: good at driving the carbon imprint through several layers. But

375
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: carbon paper is not going to solve all of the

376
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: world's duplication need problems. Because so in the last episode,

377
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about the difficulties created when you

378
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 1: need a medium number of copies of something and it's

379
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,640
Speaker 1: something of medium importance. So if you just need two

380
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: or three copies, you could use the existing methods, you

381
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: could use carbon paper, or you could use the copy press.

382
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: If you needed thousands of copies of something and you

383
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: had the budget and the time and the access, you

384
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 1: could hire out a printing press and they do all

385
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 1: the you know, the setting the movable type, and they

386
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: print out a run for you. But if you're in

387
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: the medium zone, so you just need fifty copies of something,

388
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: especially if it is some piece of ephemeral office memoranda,

389
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: some kind of small business document, or if it's a

390
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: grade school worksheet or church bulletin or anything in that

391
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 1: kind of category, it would not make sense to hire

392
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: out a printing press. You know, you don't have the time,

393
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: the lay burn, the money involved would just not really

394
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: be justified for that kind of printing. And yet it's

395
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: definitely more than you could easily make with a stack

396
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: of carbon paper sandwiches under a pencil or a typewriter.

397
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: And so this kind of mid level document duplication, for

398
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: for for schools, for small businesses, for whatever was constantly

399
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: in demand all throughout society. But there was nothing exactly

400
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: to satisfy this kind of need until we get to

401
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: a a few inventions that will mention in just a minute,

402
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: but briefly, before we leave the idea of carbon paper,

403
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: I just wanted to, uh flag an interesting fact that

404
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: even though carbon paper is pretty much obsolete, it is

405
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: still latent in our language. For example, when you talk

406
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: about a carbon copy of something that comes from the

407
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: idea of carbon paper. Uh, and it's even there in

408
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: our email fields. You know, if you see see somebody

409
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: on an email, the c C stands for carbon copy,

410
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: which is funny because you know, I'm sure in offices

411
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: of of sixty seventy years ago was everyday occurrence that

412
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: you type up a letter and send it to somebody,

413
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: and then there would be a carbon you know, a

414
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: copy made with carbon paper underneath it that would go

415
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: to the person who you literally wanted to see ce

416
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: on that physical message. But now we're doing it with

417
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: digital duplication, and the digital duplication possible with the computer

418
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: has so much more fidelity than carbon paper copies ever did. Yeah. Yeah,

419
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: So first of all, I don't think I knew this

420
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: until just now that what c C stood for. I

421
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: just never thought about it. But but yeah, to your point,

422
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: you can you can see see a single individual on

423
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: an email, which falls in line with what you would

424
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: be doing with carbon copy. But you can also, especially

425
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: with like a distributional list, you can see see everyone

426
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: within a given corporation, that sort of thing, which is

427
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: well beyond what you would have been able to handle

428
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: with carbon paper. Oh that ties into something I want

429
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: to get back to you later on. But first, uh,

430
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: let's talk the mimiograph. So, so here's where Thomas Edison

431
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: enters the pick. Sure. Yeah, So I was reading about

432
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: some of these technologies in a book from titled The

433
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: Four Photo Copying The Art and History of Mechanical Copying

434
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: by Barbara J. Rhodes and William W. Um Street and

435
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: in this they were talking a little bit about the

436
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: mimeograph and um they said that it is essentially an

437
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: American file plate stencil duplicator. There's a lot of discussion

438
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: in this book about the different terms for what these

439
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: different technologies are, and a patent for this sort of

440
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: device has been filed for this by duplication inventor uh

441
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: Eugenio D. Zuccado, and I believe this was eighteen seventy four.

442
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: So his idea was to use a thin sheet of

443
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: paper that was coated with wax on one side, and

444
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: you do your writing then over a rough surface. And

445
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: this is described in the book as as a surface

446
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: being like that of a file you know, like the

447
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: rough suffa rough metal surface that you used to file

448
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: something down with. But you're putting your your wax coated

449
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: paper on top of that and then you bust out

450
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: your metal stylus. And the the pressure applied to the

451
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: paper over the rough edges in the writings surface would

452
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: cause perforations in both the wax and the paper fibers.

453
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: The stylus would also displace some of the wax. But

454
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: the key here is that the ink could then flow

455
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: into these perforations to reproduce the writing. Now, this was

456
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: also called the papyro graph, and then there was a

457
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: more advanced typograph that was also produced. The main drawback

458
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: to this, uh, this technological approach was just the cost

459
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: of the plate itself, which was was not just something

460
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: you could be thrown together. You would have to have

461
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: a skilled individual create these things. Yeah, and this is

462
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: the principle of the stencil. The mimiograph is going to

463
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: become one of the major duplication technologies to the last

464
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: couple of centuries, and it operates on the principle of

465
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: a stencil similar to screen printing techniques that were not

466
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: new at this time. They've been in use for hundreds

467
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: of years in China and Japan, I think, especially for

468
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: for printing on cloth or garments. Yeah, it's worth noting

469
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: that a number of these now outdated duplication techniques have

470
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: been reclaimed by artists. Artists, especially fiber artists and so forth,

471
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: have gone back and looked at them and figured out

472
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: ways to play with them and create unique artistic expressions

473
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: through them. But let's get back to Edison, because Edison

474
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: wants a slice, right right, Okay, Yes, So in eighteen

475
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: seventy six, the American inventor and according to some patent holder,

476
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: Thomas Edison, received a patent for the device that would

477
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: come to be known as the mimeograph. It wasn't called

478
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: this initially, and this would be one of the most

479
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: important duplication technologies basically until the advent of computers and

480
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: photocopiers a century later. Though there was also an important

481
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: competing technology that I think Robby you're going to talk

482
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: about in a minute, um, But basically Edison's version was

483
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: you would use an electric pin which was part of

484
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: the patent, to cut out a stencil page. So imagine

485
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: writing out your document. You you do your writing of

486
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: text or drawing of illustrations, whatever it is you want

487
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: to copy, not with ink on paper, but with this

488
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: electric pin that would cut holes in a type of

489
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: card sheet, and then you would smash the stencil page

490
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: in a flatbed press between an ink soaked surface and

491
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: a blank piece of paper, and so the ink would

492
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: traverse through the gaps in the stencil and then make

493
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: a near perfect copy of your stencil document. Now, not

494
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: long after Edison's patent there was some design improvements introduced

495
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: by a Chicago inventor named Albert Blake Dick who came

496
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: up with the idea of calling it the mimiograph. And

497
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: while the earliest model was a flatbed press, later models

498
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: tended to use sometimes a rolling press which could be

499
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: operated by hand crank or even by an electric motor.

500
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: And you could say the proposing and cons of the

501
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: mimiograph there were a lot of pros. Actually, Like with

502
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: a mimiograph, you could make pretty much as many copies

503
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: as you wanted. It wasn't like carbon paper were legibility

504
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: declined significantly after the third copy. Uh. It tended to

505
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: be very cheap. I mean, I think even actually buying

506
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: the mimiograph machine itself was pretty cheap. But I wonder

507
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: if part of that I'm not sure about this, but

508
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if part of that is that manufacturers were

509
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: selling the mimiograph machine at a pretty low rate because

510
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: they knew they could continue to sell the equipment that

511
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: went with it, like the the ink and the stencil

512
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: cards and stuff. But of course there were there were

513
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: still Consuh. This was still not a method for immediately

514
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: producing a facsimile or copy of an existing document. So

515
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: like a lot of the other methods we've talked about,

516
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: this duplication technique still requires work to happen at the

517
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: front end of the copying process. You had to cut

518
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: out the stencil, which there were methods for doing with,

519
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, either like the hand operated stylus or with

520
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: with say a typewriter of sorts, and you could punch

521
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: the stencil, but you had to make it at the

522
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: front end. You couldn't just take a document, stick it

523
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: in there and get copies to come out right, or

524
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: you would at least have to make use of someone

525
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: who is acting in the role of a scribe to

526
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: take your document and transcribe it into the miniograph format

527
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: so that it then could be duplicated with ease. Yeah.

528
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: Now the mimiograph was not on its own because there

529
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: was another sort of parallel technology that did pretty much

530
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: the same thing but worked differently, widely known as the

531
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: Ditto machine. But I think the principle underneath it is

532
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: the idea of a spirit duplicator. And actually, when I

533
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: mentioned there was nostalgia for the smell of the mimiograph,

534
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: I can't remember if I said this, but there's apparently

535
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: nostalgia for the smell of the spirit duplicator as well.

536
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: People liked sniffing these things. Well, we'll get to the

537
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: smell here in a second. Um. Now, I'll be the

538
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: first to admit that the idea of a spirit duplicator

539
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: was instantly appealing, because my mind instantly went to, uh,

540
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: the idea of the of the of the you know,

541
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: the spirit in the supernatural or religious sense. So I

542
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: was wondering, okay, is this is a device by which

543
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: the human soul may be duplicated? Or perhaps it's a

544
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: means by which the haunting spirit of the deceased might

545
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: be reproduced. It also made me think of I haven't

546
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: actually seen this film, but I've has wonderful posters the

547
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: sci fi film The Human Duplicators. Oh, that's got a

548
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: good tagline. It says, made to kill or love on command,

549
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: a masterpiece of shock in color. I've never seen this one.

550
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: But in the interest of as we always try to

551
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: uh making the mundane weird again, I mean, it is

552
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: important to remember that there is a kind of spirit

553
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: duplication going on with all of these machines. Which are

554
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: these are mechanical methods for making the contents of someone

555
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: else's brain visible to people across time and space. Absolutely so, ye,

556
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: spirit is not completely, uh, you know, off the mark here,

557
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: but the spirit in spirit duplicator is actually referring to alcohol,

558
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: but it's it's still very interesting. Also known as a

559
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: as a rexograph ditto machine, also the banda machine. And

560
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: I was reading about this again in before photo Copying

561
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: by Rhoads and Street or according to the authors, it

562
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: is a variation of the hectograph, and a hectograph is

563
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: something that I must admit also sounds like weird magic

564
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: when I initially read about it. You know, the idea

565
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: that say, a wizard may produce a copy of a

566
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: sacred text by first filling a shallow pan with a

567
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: certain slime, and then the wizard may place the document

568
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: in the slime, the slime shall copy the woods and

569
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: glyphs therein, and applying a second piece of paper to

570
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: the pan, the slime shall imprint upon it the sacred magics.

571
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not far off because this method literally

572
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: uses like gelatin, right yeah, yeah, And this is one

573
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: where I recommend, I do recommend looking up a video

574
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: of this because I I had to look at a

575
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: video to really get it, uh the exactly what a

576
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: hectograph is, but basically a special pin is used to

577
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: write the original document. And I've I've read that the

578
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: teachers would use this to do lesson plans. Uh, you

579
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: would uh and uh. And also you would have a

580
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: tray of gelatine that was prepared, or you might have

581
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: a gelatine pad, and you you press and roll the

582
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: paper against the gelatine and then you remove it. And

583
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: now when you press blank sheets against the gelatine, it

584
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: reimprints the contents all the original document. Wow. So look again,

585
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. Worth looking up a video. Left. So

586
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: you make a special print original, then you smash it

587
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: into a big tray of jello and then you press

588
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: pages against the jello to get the to get the

589
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: copies off correct. Yeah, all right, So now let's get

590
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: act of the Spirit duplicator, a machine that hinges on

591
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: some of these techniques. So, according to Rhodes and Street

592
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: or the hectographic carbon sheets formed the basis here quote,

593
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: which was carried out on hectograph machines with rotary cylinder

594
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: printing surfaces. The master sheet was typed with the carbon

595
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: sheet behind it so as to create a reverse image

596
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: of the text. It was then fastened to the cylinder

597
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: with the ink facing out, and then they continue a

598
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: master was prepared then run under a cylinder with a

599
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: gelatin coated covering. This picked up the ink, as would

600
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: a roll of hectographic paper to create the quote unquote

601
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: negative from which the copies would be made. This sounds

602
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: slimy and complicated. Yeah. They go on to write that

603
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: in spirit duplicators, blank sheets of paper are run under

604
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: the cylinder on a on a carriage moistened first with

605
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: a special duplicating liquid. And this liquid is where the

606
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: spirit comes in, because we're talking about an alcohol based liquid.

607
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: The dissolve small amounts of ink on the master sheet

608
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: or gelatine cylinder and then transfers that to blank sheets.

609
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: So that's the spirit, that's the alcohol playing an important part.

610
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: So these were in action by the late ninety twenties,

611
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: and they apparently printed darker in a good way and

612
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: more uniformly than purely gelatin methods like I was talking

613
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: about earlier. Also, they point out that these copies were

614
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: more permanent, as they died the fibers of the paper

615
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: as well as opposed to just the surface of the paper.

616
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Uh So it was good for quote small to medium

617
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: print orders. Um and it was often seen as an

618
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: ideal thing for a school or office setting, small businesses, etcetera,

619
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: good for newsletters. The main drawback they mentioned it's just

620
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,479
Speaker 1: the initial cost of the machine. But I've also seen

621
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: some papers out there at least discussing the possibility of

622
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: harmful methanol fumes from this device, at least if the

623
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: machine was used in a place without ideal than a Asian.

624
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: But then, like you said, some people were just super

625
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: nostalgic for the the smell I guess of of all

626
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: of this um methanol coming off of the document duplication process. Well,

627
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: let me be clear, I'm not encouraging people to inhale

628
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: harmful fumes for nostalgia's sake. I'm just reporting what I

629
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: saw people saying. But it's interesting, right because within this

630
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: machine we have we have mechanical technology, we have a

631
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: chemical approach to duplication as well as a physical you know,

632
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: you're talking about rollers and imprinting and so forth, and

633
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: and the alteration of paper. And I was also reading

634
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: that like the basic process involved here, UH is apparently

635
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: still used by some tattoo artists as a means of

636
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: applying an initial temporary tattoo to guide the permanent work.

637
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: So perhaps if there any tattoo artists out there, you

638
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: can shime in on this this h on this factoid.

639
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: Oh I should also mention, you know, describing this process. Yes,

640
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: videos are helpful, but also you might look up a

641
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: photograph of the machine itself because it it's it's it's

642
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: rather interesting. I'm not sure I would be able to

643
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: identify what it is if I saw it. I might

644
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: guess that it's something involved and printing or something with paper. Um.

645
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: You you definitely see like a large in the model

646
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: I was looking at here, you do see a large

647
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: like drum rolling cylinder and you see, uh, you know,

648
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: the various apparatus is there that are necessary to guide

649
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: paper through it? And I guess you're also seeing various dials, um,

650
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: and they're in place so you can apply certain settings

651
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: to the process. Now, eventually, after this era we do

652
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: get into the modern realm of of photocopiers based on

653
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: things like zerography and two computers of course, which you know,

654
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: digital duplication of documents is a whole other realm. It's

655
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: sort of like the uh realm boundary has been crossed.

656
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: Once you're talking about digital duplication. We don't have time

657
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: today to talk about all of the other duplication technologies

658
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: that came in between, but I did briefly want to

659
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: talk about the zerography process that made photo copying possible,

660
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: because before this I actually would not have been able

661
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: to explain how that worked. I didn't know, but uh,

662
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: in reading about it, it's pretty interesting. So the photo

663
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: copier rose during the second half of the twentie century,

664
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: and it operates on this principle called zerography, which translates

665
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: essentially to dry riding, because the photocopier uses no wet ink. Instead,

666
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: it uses a type of uh, dry ink you could

667
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: think of a dry coloring agent called toner. And the

668
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: main principle that enables the the copying of imagery or

669
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: documents through the photo copy or astatic electricity. So inside

670
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: a photo copy or machine, there is an electrostatically charged

671
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: surface made out of a photo conductive material, and this

672
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: element is known as the drum. This is down inside

673
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: the machine, underneath that transparent surface where you lay down

674
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: the document you want to copy. So you lay your

675
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: original down face down on this transparent surface and then

676
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: I guess usually you want to cover it, but the

677
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: machine shines a really bright light up against the original

678
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: page and that light is reflected off of the page

679
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: back onto the drum. Again, the drum is this electrostatically

680
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: charged metal surface, but the key is that the light

681
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: is reflected selectively based on what is on the page

682
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: you're shining the light on. So white and brightly colored

683
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: areas on the page, such as blank space, will reflect

684
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: a lot of light, while black and darkly shaded areas

685
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: of the page, such as the letters on a text document,

686
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: will reflect little to no light. And this light pattern

687
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: reflects onto the drum, which is selectively electrically modified by it.

688
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: So the area is hit by bright light become electrically neutralized,

689
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: while the area is not hit by bright light retain

690
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: their charge. And then the toner, which is a collection

691
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: of these charged particles with some kind of pigmentation on them,

692
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: that's then applied to the drum. And the toner has

693
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: an opposite charge to the initial charge of the drums,

694
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: so through static electricity, it sticks to whichever parts of

695
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: the drum received less light, so for example, the marked

696
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: parts of a document. And then the drum is applied

697
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: to oppositely charged paper printing a copy of whatever was

698
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: dark on the original page. And then finally the toner

699
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: is fused to the page, usually by some combination of

700
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: heat and pressure, which I guess probably some of that

701
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: fusing process gives the pages coming out of a photocopy

702
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: or also their own distinct smell, which I don't actually

703
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: have very fond memories of. Really, I don't know, you're

704
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: just describing it, and I kind of took me back

705
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: to making for photo copying pages out of books in college. Uh,

706
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: often times it felt like just way too many pages

707
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: out of books and there would be a distance, like

708
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: the paper kind it's all hot and has that odor

709
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: to it. And I was also just thinking about you know,

710
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: you're talking about the way it captures text and images.

711
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: If you have if your page happen to have, say,

712
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 1: a wood cut illustration on it, well that might transfer perfectly,

713
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: depending how you know, ultimately dark the background is. But

714
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: then if you had, say, uh, in a oil painting

715
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: or something in there, some you know, classic work of art, uh,

716
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: it might just come out as a black smudge on

717
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: on your page. So so that, yeah, there were definitely

718
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: limitations depending on what you were trying to duplicate through

719
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: this through this machine. Yeah, I think the zerography technique

720
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: would work better for original imagery that was already high contrast,

721
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: and the wider the background the better, I think. I

722
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: remember also running into that issue if you had like

723
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,959
Speaker 1: kind of dark paper, um or darker paper than the normal,

724
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: you could end up with kind of a real grimy

725
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: look to it that was difficult to read. But I'm

726
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: talking about this technology like, we don't still use it today.

727
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: You know, they're there there, you can still you can

728
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: still have to find ready access to to xerox machines

729
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: and so forth. Though there's I would argue, in many

730
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: ways far less need for it than there once was,

731
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: just because of how much duplication takes place purely in

732
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: the digital realm. Now, yeah, unless you're going through a

733
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: process where physical copies are required and uh and and

734
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: so forth, then um, then yeah, you probably don't need

735
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: to use this machine. And it began. It seems like

736
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: we even in the over the past fifteen years, you know,

737
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: we've seen more of a movement towards say, digital signatures

738
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: on things, right, and so the era of digital document

739
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: sharing and duplication has introduced. You know, it's solved a

740
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: lot of problems that existed during the era of only

741
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: physical duplication, but it's also introduced some new ones. I mean,

742
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: we've already alluded to issues with security. Like originally, if

743
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: you had a very sensitive document, say you wanted to

744
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: show it to ten people, you could maybe show it

745
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: to them and then collect all ten copies back and

746
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: you'd know that you had all of them. Of course,

747
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: it becomes harder to control that information in its original

748
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: form if you're sharing it digitally. And of course there's

749
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: a whole uh, you know, realm of digital security solutions

750
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: that have evolved specifically to combat that kind of problem.

751
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: But there's another problem I think that is faced in

752
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: the era of limitless, lossless copying of of documents through

753
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: digital means, and that is, uh, I guess, actually a

754
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: suite of problems that have to do with the changing

755
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: economics of like reading and detention time. So we used

756
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: to live in a global situation of document scarcity where

757
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: it was where it was you know, cost intensive to

758
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: both in terms of like labor and economics to make

759
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: copies of documents. So as one uh, almost maybe trivial

760
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: sounding consequence of that, I wonder how much that encouraged

761
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: brevity in documents actually, like, would would there be a

762
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: pressure to be more short? And to the point about

763
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: documents that you know, in a realm in which any

764
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: copying of that document would have to be done by hand? Uh,

765
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: And do documents have a tendency to grow unnecessarily long

766
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: if there's no palpable cost associated with adding additional lines

767
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: and pages to that document when you need to copy

768
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: and share it. Yeah, that's a good point. This and

769
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: this got me thinking about you know, really long novels

770
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: and and how especially in paperback form, they could they

771
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: could be often just like almost unreadable. Uh. You know

772
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: we've talked about that in the past. One particular edition

773
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: of Done that came out is a real eye strain,

774
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: super tiny print. Yeah. Uh, but I was even just

775
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: thinking as it applies to, you know, the kind of

776
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: documents you would share in a business context. Yeah, keep

777
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: it to one page, because it's that much more of

778
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: a pain to to go and then use the mimiograph

779
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: machine to create two pages, or especially if this is

780
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: before the mimiographing got somebody like typing out copies on

781
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: a typewriter. I mean, this is a huge part of

782
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: labor all. You know, even in the twentieth century when

783
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: the mimiograph existed, there was a lot of labor that

784
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: just went into typing copies of things on on carbon sheets. Yeah. Now,

785
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: another interesting thing to think about it was when you

786
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: get into the realm of the printing press and you

787
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: get into the room of newspapers, and just like the

788
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: physical layout of a newspaper, at times it's going to

789
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: constrict you, but other times it's going to create extra

790
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: space that then has to be filled. So there's an

791
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: interesting sort of push and pull when you start thinking

792
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: about like the physical demands of the medium and what

793
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: they require you to do to fill that medium. There's

794
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: another thought I was having that is along these lines,

795
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: but framed a little bit differently. Um, and that's that.

796
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: Another way to think about this is that over the

797
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: course of the last few thousand years, we have transitioned

798
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: from ah a regime of extreme documents scarcity. You know,

799
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: like books were rare and extremely expensive, documents were incredibly

800
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: laborious to make copies of, to not only an environment

801
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: of document abundance, but an environment of document engorgement. I mean,

802
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: we are overloaded with access to documents honestly, of which

803
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: are of really no relevance to us. All the spam

804
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: email you get that is people sharing documents with you

805
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: that are not actually of interest to you. Uh And

806
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: and this happens, you know, not just in your email

807
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: in box, but all the time. I mean, you're You're

808
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: constantly being presented with, especially digital access to pieces of

809
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: written information that are competing for your time and attention,

810
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: but they're not actually important to you. So when there's

811
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: too much to read and too much to share with

812
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: limitless lost less digital copying of documents, the problem of

813
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: the world becomes not how do I get the information

814
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: I need? But how do I tell which information is

815
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: important and prioritize that. In fact, I would say that

816
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: this is one of the major uh new problems created

817
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: by the digital era, just being constantly presented with digital

818
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: information that is essentially free for people to produce and

819
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: put in front of you. So you're just constantly wading

820
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: through all of this documentary noise to try to direct

821
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: your attention to whatever information is actually of relevance to

822
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, and even when you have constraints in place,

823
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: like the fact that a lot of the books, I

824
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: mean there are a lot of e books you can

825
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: get for free, certainly, um, but then you do have

826
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: to buy a lot of the books as well. But

827
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: your major platforms are going to provide you with free samples,

828
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 1: and so it's easy to just overload yourself with free

829
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: samples of things that you might can receivably read and

830
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: then are therefore easy to to then go on and

831
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: purchase if you decide you're gonna keep going with it.

832
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: Whereas when you're dealing with physical books, I mean, yeah,

833
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: you're making these of the libraries with these things, but

834
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: still like you can only check out so many physical

835
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: books at a time, you could only probably buy so

836
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: many physical books, or would only buy so many physical

837
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: books at a time, and so there's a certain level

838
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: of commitment. They're like, Okay, this is the book I'm

839
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go for. I'm gonna give this one

840
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: a go, uh and I'll return it or if I

841
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: don't want it, or you know, maybe I can trade

842
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: it in or something. But um, now the options are

843
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: they can certainly be overwhelming. I would say that the

844
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: same sort of uh information over abundance problem applies even

845
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: say within the controlled information flow of an office setting

846
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: where you know, no disrespect to to one's bosses and

847
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: co workers and all that. But I think anybody who

848
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: works in an office is familiar with the problem of

849
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: constantly receiving emails that are are not of any use

850
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: to you, but you're they're taking your time because it

851
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: was free to copy you on this email. So there's

852
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: a massive amount of like lost productivity, even in in

853
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: an office setting where there's limitless, lossless copying and sharing

854
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: of documents, because you can share this document with everybody,

855
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: so why not do it? But it will take people

856
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: time of looking at that document to figure out that

857
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: it's not actually useful to them and get back to

858
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: whatever it is they needed to be doing. And then

859
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: imagine maybe this happens dozens or hundreds of times a

860
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: day for all of your employees, right right, Yeah, here

861
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: it comes. It's a company wide email, Welcome Dale, and

862
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 1: and then lo and behold. Sometimes it feels like hundreds

863
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: of people do welcome Dale and go ahead and see

864
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 1: see the entire company on their welcoming of Dale. Well,

865
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: I mean in a way that's nice, but yeah, I

866
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: mean kudos to Dale. He's a hard I mean welcoming

867
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: people is nice, but I guess there probably are more

868
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: and less tie and uh labor effective ways to do that.

869
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: But then again, on the other hand, creating documents, duplicating documents,

870
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: and getting to the people that need them. This has

871
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: also led to the you know, it's a frequent almost

872
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: a meme at this point, this meeting could have been

873
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: an email, you know where Oftentimes it is easier to

874
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: just create the document than to get everybody to even

875
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: virtually a symbol for some sort of a meeting that

876
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: is about the dissemination of information. I mean, I feel

877
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: like the solution for a lot of the things we've

878
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: been talking about is to keep a more human centric

879
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: mindset when creating and sharing documents, Like remember that a

880
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: document is a bid for somebody's time and attention, which

881
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: is valuable, and so like, if you're going to make

882
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: that document and you're going to share it with them,

883
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: it's worth having a personal ethos, and if you're a

884
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: company or something, having a company ethos of saying like,

885
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: is this actually the best use of the time of

886
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: the people I'm going to be sharing this with and

887
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: being conscious of the fact that every time somebody gets

888
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: another document shared with them, especially in a you know,

889
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: high high information traffic environment, you are necessarily making their

890
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: day a little more confusing, so you know, uh, it

891
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: should at least have some information that is relevant or

892
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: helpful to them, right, Okay, well we've we've come a

893
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: long way. We you know, we we we live in

894
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: this age now of hyper document duplication. But on on

895
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: on another level, I mean, we are the human duplicators. Like,

896
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: duplication of information has been a part of human civilization

897
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: for a very long time. So I think it's a

898
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: worthwhile experience, uh, and um an exercise to go through,

899
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: at least in very broad strokes, the history of document

900
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: duplication here. Uh, if you'd like to learn more about

901
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: related topics, Yeah, we've covered writing books, various various other

902
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: related topics on Stuff to Blow Your Mind in the past.

903
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: You can find those episodes in this Stuff to Blow

904
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed. We have core episodes of our

905
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: show that publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have a

906
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: listener mail episode that airs on Monday. On Wednesday, we

907
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: do a short form artifact or monster fact episode, and

908
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: on Friday's we do Weird How Cinema. That's our time

909
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: to set aside most of the science and technology and

910
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: philosophy and history and just talk about a weird motion picture.

911
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

912
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

913
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

914
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

915
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

916
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your

917
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

918
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: for my Heart Radio with the iHeart Radio app, Apple

919
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: podcas Asks, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows,

920
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: fo