Speaker 1: Welcome to It had Happen Here? A podcast that this
Speaker 1: week is about the war on trans people. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Christopher Wong. If you've been around the left long enough,
Speaker 1: you've probably heard people called transisclusionary, radical feminism or turf
Speaker 1: is m a colonial ideology. Broadly, the accusation of colonialism
Speaker 1: is about the erasure of non Western genders to fall
Speaker 1: outside the Christian gender binary. But turfs or colonial in
Speaker 1: another sense as well, exported by white academics to a
Speaker 1: network of fall feminist and anti trafficking groups, the ideology
Speaker 1: has imposed itself on the global South, with devastating and
Speaker 1: violent consequences. As a product of this colonial imposition, Mexico
Speaker 1: has become one of the front lines in the war
Speaker 1: against trans people. I spoke to Emmy Flores and Juliana Newhauser,
Speaker 1: two members of the Sexual and Gender Dissidence Resistance Network,
Speaker 1: a group of activists aligned with the Zapatistas who have
Speaker 1: been documenting and resisting the spread of turfs and me
Speaker 1: to go when the new Turf Wave started in Mexico
Speaker 1: several years back. Um At the time, I thought I
Speaker 1: thought of it as something that like a radicalization that
Speaker 1: went too farn you know, like kind of like thinking
Speaker 1: back to the New Left, and there was a point
Speaker 1: during the New Left when like suddenly everybody joined a
Speaker 1: Baoist cult and they were angry for the right reasons,
Speaker 1: but it just went off. At some point, I thought
Speaker 1: that's what was going on in Mexico. But then slowly
Speaker 1: it started to come out more that more and more
Speaker 1: turf groups were had to tie us to political parties
Speaker 1: and one of them and foreign agents. And one of
Speaker 1: the one of the most dramatic cases, UM is from
Speaker 1: Toluca Sitty near Mexico City. UM just recently at the
Speaker 1: International Women's State protests, like there were turf groups that
Speaker 1: had made a pinata out of the trans flag, had
Speaker 1: been burning the trans flag. Also in this same city,
Speaker 1: one of the main turf groups turns out that their
Speaker 1: leader is on government payroll. And if you've seen Roma,
Speaker 1: for example, the incident, the political incident that happens in
Speaker 1: that movie based on real incident from the seventies, and
Speaker 1: the tactics of that political party, which is the party
Speaker 1: that controls the state government of the state to Lucas
Speaker 1: in basically it hasn't changed and they seem to have
Speaker 1: been using these turfs basically as shock troops. At one
Speaker 1: point there were two sit ins outside the state Congress,
Speaker 1: one to push for a gender identity a law and
Speaker 1: another to push for the igaliciation of abortion, which are
Speaker 1: obviously both important things. The ladder, however, was controlled by
Speaker 1: these turf groups, who later mysteriously never seems to appear
Speaker 1: at other protests asking for the legalization of abortion. But
Speaker 1: they were there and they ran off the trans encampment.
Speaker 1: One of them big incidents was defending the sanctity if
Speaker 1: the women's bathroom with barbed wire wrapped baseball bats Jesus.
Speaker 1: These groups have deep ties to right wing Mexican political parties,
Speaker 1: the police, and the growing Turf international, and they seem
Speaker 1: to be very chummy with the local police. Their leader
Speaker 1: um gives classes, it gives like trainings to the state
Speaker 1: government like that. It's it's not subtle, you know. You
Speaker 1: can see live strings of the quote unquote protests, and
Speaker 1: he was mostly them like drinking coffee with the cops,
Speaker 1: like they were on firstly vasis with the cops, while
Speaker 1: the the other camp had like translimin the world were
Speaker 1: too scared to go to the bathroom because they were
Speaker 1: going to be attacked, and so that's the starkest group
Speaker 1: I think, right, the delicators, which are Yeah, it's funny
Speaker 1: because almost every party has their own the wrong group.
Speaker 1: But yeah, also it's not surprised that p r I
Speaker 1: is the scariest. Yeah. We should also say that these
Speaker 1: groups are affiliates with Jila Jeffreys Women's Speculation International Um.
Speaker 1: And so this is also a case of an ideology
Speaker 1: developed in the First World, in this case England, which
Speaker 1: is largely a safe country where even as fascist and
Speaker 1: ideology as turfism doesn't or only very rarely leads to
Speaker 1: real violence, and but it gets exported the countries that
Speaker 1: are not safe where it does turn into real violence.
Speaker 1: So another affiliate UM of Sheila Jefferies Human's Decoration in
Speaker 1: Mexico would be Las Bruces Delmar, who is another case
Speaker 1: of At first they seemed to be a group that
Speaker 1: was just they just radicalized a bit too far. Then
Speaker 1: photos came out of their leader who is on the
Speaker 1: time one hundred a couple of years back with Felipe Calderon,
Speaker 1: an ex president of Mexico and like by far one
Speaker 1: of the worst in the country's history, and not like
Speaker 1: like just oh, I saw you walking in the street.
Speaker 1: She was at a book signing. It was not a
Speaker 1: casual encounter. It was a clear sign of admiration in
Speaker 1: the It's been more than confirmed since then that her
Speaker 1: political ambitions lie with the p AN, the the farthest
Speaker 1: right mainstream political party in n School. This political alliance
Speaker 1: between the Turfs and the right has benefits for both sides.
Speaker 1: The Turf's gained funding institutional backing for their war against
Speaker 1: trans people. The right gained a way to attack the
Speaker 1: vaguely center left Mexican President Andrea's Manuel Lopez Obrador by
Speaker 1: blaming him and trans people from Mexico's horrific wave of femicides,
Speaker 1: while distracting from its actual sources NAFTA and the War
Speaker 1: on drugs. Mexico's trans population, however, gained a new Western
Speaker 1: educated threat. When I say the radical feminism was a
Speaker 1: complete import it's from its very beginning in the For
Speaker 1: a long while, there was like one Turf in Mexico
Speaker 1: and she was She's called gian Maria. Yo, don't even
Speaker 1: try to pronounce her name. I don't think she can
Speaker 1: even pronounce her name because she's white ass hill and
Speaker 1: she's always dresses like she's a fucking Rachel dollars Hill
Speaker 1: from Mexico's irony that the first originary in Mexico is
Speaker 1: also the Mexican Rachel, right, because she went abroad and
Speaker 1: was like the only Mexican everyone knew. So even though
Speaker 1: she's white a cell and has blue eyes, she started
Speaker 1: wearing some Coachella motherfucking as uh feathers and ship right,
Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen these pictures. It's it is, it
Speaker 1: is like it is. It is the Mexican version of
Speaker 1: and not even just the it is the Mexican version
Speaker 1: of those people like Coachella who like wear indigenous head dresses,
Speaker 1: who are just like just like look look like they're
Speaker 1: descended from like hydroc Hembler or something. And like she's
Speaker 1: she has like she has like half French, half Spanish
Speaker 1: name and she changed it to a half maya half
Speaker 1: novel name. It's gross. So this this person has been
Speaker 1: actives in the seventies, right, she went to she was
Speaker 1: present in the first Pride in Mexico, and uh she
Speaker 1: who that was? That was also the two year anniversary
Speaker 1: of the massacre, So Pride was from the start really
Speaker 1: leftist here in Mexico, but it also had these kind
Speaker 1: of people, the who who went to the UK, friends
Speaker 1: and the United States. And I think she was there
Speaker 1: when Jennie Raymond was like sending her friends with guns
Speaker 1: to to UH threatened trans women, right, So that's she
Speaker 1: she She was there when the turf Wars were at
Speaker 1: the highest point during the seventies and then came back
Speaker 1: and parton. She participating in a lot of history of
Speaker 1: Mexican feminism. But the time that she came back in
Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen with that letter, with that backing, because
Speaker 1: she is also close to Jennie Raymond with the qualities
Speaker 1: again against Trafficking in Women who the Coalition against Trafficking,
Speaker 1: the Coalition against Trafficking in Women cat W has a
Speaker 1: lot of After the Turf Wars, they went underground in
Speaker 1: the in academia and the universities, right because they were
Speaker 1: no longer accepted, but they were in the process of
Speaker 1: building and geos that could globally affect policy on UH,
Speaker 1: specifically sex work and trans rights. And you can tell
Speaker 1: that gian Maria saw that that was her only opportunity
Speaker 1: to resurface UH and to make her seventies as UH
Speaker 1: she saw that seventies rat fan discourse was ret right now,
Speaker 1: and so she became like this uh found found in
Speaker 1: matriarch for the new generation of transfers, one of them
Speaker 1: which is a lot of Luana who is part of
Speaker 1: FEMBA and the Gean media and Lekuana. We're not faced
Speaker 1: at all by the accusations of aligned with the reactionaries
Speaker 1: because they know their history, they know where they come from,
Speaker 1: and they know that this is how Dorkin survived, this
Speaker 1: is how uh how Sheila Jefferies and Jennie Raymond survived.
Speaker 1: This is where you get the fucking money. And later
Speaker 1: Quana gehn Maria and turned the whole environment around them
Speaker 1: into these uh well, these surf questions. The only two
Speaker 1: issues that we talked about nowadays in Mexican feminism are
Speaker 1: our president and trans people. It's kind of gross Jesus,
Speaker 1: and that like remember, like there's only a handful of
Speaker 1: states that have legalized deportion. There's femicides happening all the time,
Speaker 1: and but we're we continued to debate these two issues
Speaker 1: over and over and over again like a feedback group,
Speaker 1: and like, as trans people, we don't have any choice
Speaker 1: because we're the targets of this right, and it's not
Speaker 1: it's not an academic debate. Last fall, um there was
Speaker 1: some Turfs who had taken over a public park to
Speaker 1: set up their separatist space, and there was a disabled
Speaker 1: CIS woman and her trans girlfriend who are denied entry
Speaker 1: at the park and threatened with tasers. And so when
Speaker 1: they're taking over these public spaces and using violence to
Speaker 1: defend them, because the next week there is a protest
Speaker 1: over this and they there is a they taste to
Speaker 1: transpan and it's like, this is like a public park, like,
Speaker 1: of course we have to defend ourselves. M The Coalition
Speaker 1: against Trafficking and Women or cat W, an international anti
Speaker 1: sex worker group which provided a refuge for white turfs
Speaker 1: driven from mainstream feminism in their home countries, has been
Speaker 1: a major source of Turfy influence in Latin America. The
Speaker 1: reason there is so much important of this ideology towards
Speaker 1: radical feminists in Mexico, Uh, it's that they needed something
Speaker 1: to say and something to do and something to feel
Speaker 1: the void uh in organizing and n geos and the
Speaker 1: people who stepped up where Jenny's Raymond's cat W right,
Speaker 1: the Coalition Against African in women who since the noneidies,
Speaker 1: UH spent UH a decade and a half building contexts
Speaker 1: in the in the u N, in the O S
Speaker 1: in several international organisms to extend their influence across the
Speaker 1: whole continent, specifically in Latin America and UH you can
Speaker 1: see this affecting stuff like stuff like Venezuela where they
Speaker 1: broke up sex worker unions too two with the the
Speaker 1: O A S right and in Mexico, the founding leader
Speaker 1: of the Mexican branch of of cad W, Teresa used
Speaker 1: to be a un employee, specifically it's drug and crime segment,
Speaker 1: and before she was like a radical feminist. She used
Speaker 1: to conduct drug rades in Chapa's and yeah, and after
Speaker 1: that she became UH the founding member of cad W
Speaker 1: Latin America and the Caribbean. And with Janice Raymond, they
Speaker 1: you can see them go together to the Beijing Conference
Speaker 1: on Women and they influenced like those they they were
Speaker 1: a big part of why gender is not recognized as
Speaker 1: a social construct by the u N. They allied with
Speaker 1: the Holy See, with the representative from the Vatican in
Speaker 1: the u N, got together with a couple of radical
Speaker 1: feminists and pushed back against gender being recognized as a
Speaker 1: social construct in so that's the level of influence these
Speaker 1: groups have in Mexico. UH, these groups which morphed into
Speaker 1: the c w UH supported the war and drugs from
Speaker 1: the get go. They were very high in some of
Speaker 1: the biggest events in now curating the war and drugs.
Speaker 1: They were present right there, because if you're fighting drug trafficking,
Speaker 1: it's very easy to just sleep the word human right there. Right,
Speaker 1: No politicians gonna say no. They all fucking love to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hard on on human trafficking. And the way that
Speaker 1: UH showed itself A was just targeting trans sex workers
Speaker 1: and migrant sex workers. And with that and that feeding
Speaker 1: the agenda of Jenny's Raymond perfectly. Sheila Jeffries Gotta basically
Speaker 1: survived the whole two thousands on writing garbage for reports
Speaker 1: for the u N. Most of her published works during
Speaker 1: the two thousands and early twenty tents. It's stuff paid
Speaker 1: for cattle, and they they they In two thousands sixteen,
Speaker 1: they started pushing for more and more anti trans legislation
Speaker 1: worldwide because they could see the writing on the world right.
Speaker 1: They were behind the Women's Declaration, the Sheila Jeffries is
Speaker 1: not okay, she is part of catally, she's I think
Speaker 1: card W Australia. She has her own all other coltics,
Speaker 1: all Space International, which is behind Foster system by the way,
Speaker 1: in the US, where she allied with a couple of
Speaker 1: conservative sheriffs to write the legislation so we could go
Speaker 1: on and on on. How like people that read that
Speaker 1: our transitions think are gone and forgotten by history. Right,
Speaker 1: the the authors of these horrible books that haunt us
Speaker 1: to this day are still active, and not just in
Speaker 1: the US. They're active in Mexico, in the UK, in France,
Speaker 1: in South Africa, in Korea. Korea is huge in I
Speaker 1: think I would say Korea is as has as big
Speaker 1: a problem as Mexico and the UK. We just don't
Speaker 1: talk to them as much and we can't realize that.
Speaker 1: But if you check them the languages that have signed
Speaker 1: the Shila Jefferis Declaration against trans People, which is a
Speaker 1: specifically general sidal, the Coloration Declaration. It doesn't stop at
Speaker 1: like legislation. It wants to exterminators out right. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: most of them. You were gonna see a lot of
Speaker 1: Brazilian flags, a lot of Mexican flax, a lot of
Speaker 1: Korean flags, even more than the United States flags. And
Speaker 1: if you track the USA flags, it's mostly like weird
Speaker 1: randalls that have yoga classes and ship it's not relevant politicians.
Speaker 1: But if you track the other countries, you're gonna find
Speaker 1: some of the biggest collectives in the in their own countries.
Speaker 1: You're gonna find or just spooks. Right, You're gonna find
Speaker 1: a lot of people who have really weird careers that
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in Italy and Uganda. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's a never ending uh right, whole of of
Speaker 1: of spooks, of conservatives, of has been feminists that have
Speaker 1: regranted as NGOs to get money from those groups and
Speaker 1: directed towards breaking up trans rights, towards affecting sex workers,
Speaker 1: towards breaking unions, breaking student movement. It's a global movement
Speaker 1: that is birthed by conservative thought, but getting more and
Speaker 1: more reactionary and more and more organized as time goes by.
Speaker 1: That international transphobic movement has increasingly found purchased in the US.
Speaker 1: I spoke to Lee Liaville and Kay Shiver's, two members
Speaker 1: of Health Liberation now with intimate experience with the turf
Speaker 1: movement who spent years particularly documenting its rise. So my
Speaker 1: first question is, can you'll explain what Wolf actually is?
Speaker 1: And I guess subsequent to that, what the relationship to
Speaker 1: hands across the aisle is? Um? Yeah, so Wolf is. UM.
Speaker 1: There are transphobic feminist group UM with at this point
Speaker 1: extensive ties to right wing organizations. Um. They've worked with
Speaker 1: Family Policy Alliance here, Died Foundation, and Alliance Defending Freedom Concerned,
Speaker 1: went for America Family Research Culture among others. Um. But
Speaker 1: they um, they got their start um and they started
Speaker 1: back in two thousand thirteen around when they were founded
Speaker 1: by Lear Keith, who also was one of the leaders
Speaker 1: of Deep Cream Resistance, and she basically got like, um,
Speaker 1: kind of run out of anarchists and environmentalist groups and
Speaker 1: then kind of like went over to uh established like
Speaker 1: turf communities try and recruit there. So I sort of
Speaker 1: like started out trying to like recruit from these like
Speaker 1: older turf and transphobic lesbian communities. And then after Trump
Speaker 1: got elected and um, you know, the conservative Christians on
Speaker 1: the far right became more mobilized and more empowered. They
Speaker 1: kind of like rebranded themselves and we're like, oh, let's
Speaker 1: form alliances with these right wing groups, and they kind
Speaker 1: of like traded. They're sort of like like crunchy lesbian feminists,
Speaker 1: like like image for like Kara Danski, who like you know,
Speaker 1: is a straight, fairly feminine looking woman who used to
Speaker 1: work for the c LU and like a Democrat and
Speaker 1: like you know, she's way more presentable to like the
Speaker 1: conservative audience, you know, by working with the right than
Speaker 1: they have access to like money and power, and they
Speaker 1: can it's easier to get on the media. Like like
Speaker 1: Kara Dansky is no longer with Wolf, but like she
Speaker 1: was with them for years and still has relations like
Speaker 1: like good relations with them, and she's been on the
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson Show like many times. So I think one
Speaker 1: of the important pieces when it comes to understanding like
Speaker 1: how this relationship with the right started. So in in
Speaker 1: late two thousand and sixteen, Wolf put forward they're filing
Speaker 1: against the US Department of Justice and US Department of Education, right,
Speaker 1: and they were going up against aspects of like trying
Speaker 1: to reform Title nine to include gender identity, you know,
Speaker 1: to to protect folks um who need to be able
Speaker 1: to use the like women's restroom, our locker room or whatever, right,
Speaker 1: And this is the case that they ended up getting
Speaker 1: some of the a d F funding for. So it's
Speaker 1: like one of the first official seeds I guess of
Speaker 1: the direct collaboration ended up happening. Those A lot of
Speaker 1: that stuff did up eventually end up getting leaked, and
Speaker 1: then they started doing some more official collaborations. Just a
Speaker 1: few months later, Um, when they were working with like
Speaker 1: Family Policy Alliance, um Bile Amicust briefs against Gavin Grimm
Speaker 1: again out of bathroom case. Yeah, they took something like
Speaker 1: I think was like fifteen dollars from the Alliance depending Freedom,
Speaker 1: which is one of the main right wing groups like
Speaker 1: like trying to pass all these like anti trams bills
Speaker 1: like going after a pediatric transition and trans girls and
Speaker 1: in women's sports. So they took that money. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: then later I think like, um, the whole working with
Speaker 1: Family Policy Alliance I believe was the first time they
Speaker 1: like publicly allied with with the right ring group. I think.
Speaker 1: So that yeah, in January of two thousand seventeen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then they've just sort of like yeah, like they
Speaker 1: also were involved with like the Amicast frieze against was
Speaker 1: it Amy Stephens, um another Supreme Court case. I can't remember, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't surprise me. And like members of both of
Speaker 1: a period on like Heritage Foundation panels, they helped like
Speaker 1: released a parent Resource Guide and anti transparent Resource Guide
Speaker 1: that was also sponsored by like Heritage Foundation, Family Policy Alliance.
Speaker 1: This this this is very similar to almost exactly what
Speaker 1: you see in Mexico, with just sort of slightly less
Speaker 1: physical violence, which yeah, it's it's a lot of you know.
Speaker 1: And the the other thing is that these are to
Speaker 1: a large extent exactly the same organizations. And that was
Speaker 1: one of the other things I want to talk about
Speaker 1: was the influence of Sheila Jeffreys and the Women's Decoration,
Speaker 1: which has been all over this whole movement. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: one thing to point out, so, like you know, the
Speaker 1: Women's Declaration International is in this in the US is
Speaker 1: led by Kara Danski, who Yo, she like basically like
Speaker 1: left you worked at Wolf for a long time and
Speaker 1: still has lots of connections with them, is on good
Speaker 1: terms with them, but she like left and now is
Speaker 1: like working with Women Declaration International of US France. So
Speaker 1: and she winds up having kind of like a foot
Speaker 1: in both worlds at the same time too, so like
Speaker 1: she'll like the US chapter Women's Declaration International previously like
Speaker 1: Women's Team and Rights Campaign before they had to rebrand
Speaker 1: um they but if if you if you read this
Speaker 1: COMMI yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Um So, what what ends
Speaker 1: up happening is that Karen Danski will either like have
Speaker 1: the chapter sponsor particular events or she herself will become
Speaker 1: actively involved in the formation of the events, right, which
Speaker 1: we saw happen with UM women pick at d C
Speaker 1: last year where they were parking themselves outside of that
Speaker 1: was like it was a well that was that was
Speaker 1: a whole fix. Oh god, it was the purchase that
Speaker 1: happened on International Women's Day to protest the Equality Act. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's not like it's people's first time dealing with
Speaker 1: the Equality Act either. I mean, like so prior prior
Speaker 1: to that point, which and this starts to go into
Speaker 1: the like hands across the Aisle Coalition because they were
Speaker 1: actively involved in opposing the Equality Act as well. So
Speaker 1: to to kind of roll back a little bit, um
Speaker 1: that the hands across the Aisle Coalition. This was something
Speaker 1: that started developing in early two thousand seventeen, you know,
Speaker 1: not that long after Wolf started building the more direct
Speaker 1: relationships with the right and so that the people of
Speaker 1: this coalition would have like you would have members of
Speaker 1: the right itself. And in the process of that um,
Speaker 1: towards the beginning of two thousand nineteen, in May, they
Speaker 1: filed this joint letter to the House of Representative Speaker
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi to oppose things like the Equality Act UM
Speaker 1: and they did so alongside with Natasha Chart representing Wolf,
Speaker 1: Concerned Women for America, American College of Pediatricians Family Research Council.
Speaker 1: You know, a whole bunch of really just awful names,
Speaker 1: and they're, oh, yeah, the idea was involved in that one. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's really the Rose Gallery of all of the people
Speaker 1: who were anti gay marriage until we've still are but
Speaker 1: have downplayed it. And yeah, all people who let the
Speaker 1: anti game marriage campaigns, all of the sort of weird
Speaker 1: right wing pseudo medical bodies. The next thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask about is what's been happening in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years with the fusion, because I mean, so
Speaker 1: you already have your your alliance between the Turfs and
Speaker 1: the Evangelicals, but in the last couple of years we've
Speaker 1: seen a I don't know if if full scale is
Speaker 1: the right term to use for it. But we've seen
Speaker 1: a merger of this with Save the Children in Q
Speaker 1: and ON stuff, and I'm wondering if you can talk
Speaker 1: about that that's okay. So that's an interesting one because
Speaker 1: like I've I've been digging into the timeline of this
Speaker 1: stuff extensively. It's like I've got hundreds un rates of
Speaker 1: listings trying to figure out where different cases are coming
Speaker 1: from and trying to understand like the phases. Right, So
Speaker 1: you've you've got like the formation, the solidification, and then
Speaker 1: the escalation, and we're kind of in the escalation stage
Speaker 1: right now. But so one of the things that I
Speaker 1: started to notice is that elements of this crossover, like
Speaker 1: the cross pollination that was happening, actually predated certain key
Speaker 1: events that we now now are affiliated with Q and ON. Right,
Speaker 1: So if we think about the actual like development of
Speaker 1: Q and ON itself, So you've got the pizza Gate
Speaker 1: thing that was happening in like October two thousand sixteen.
Speaker 1: I believe that was, um, you know, right before Trump
Speaker 1: was getting elected and you know, kicking up some stuff
Speaker 1: about like you know, Hillary Clinton's emails and stuff like
Speaker 1: that to go up against her election campaign in opposition
Speaker 1: to Trump, and then you know, folding in the harassment
Speaker 1: towards um comment ping Pong to the point where like
Speaker 1: Edgar Madison Wealth shows up at comment Ping Pong in
Speaker 1: December of two thousand sixteen with an a R fifteen
Speaker 1: style rifle and starts, you know, firing off his shots
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Right, and so eventually, um, most
Speaker 1: people know that the timeline of the Q and on
Speaker 1: drops happening around like October two thousand seventeen. Like if
Speaker 1: you look up the original like the first known Q drops,
Speaker 1: I believe that was like October two seventeen on four Chan.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that if you look at references
Speaker 1: to save the Children or save our Children on like Twitter,
Speaker 1: the hashtags, and you're also looking for transphobia related stuf up,
Speaker 1: you can actually start to see that crossover happening before
Speaker 1: the original que drops happened, Right, Yeah, I found I
Speaker 1: found tweets that were connecting trans inclusion education in schools
Speaker 1: to pedophilia and using the save the children hashtag. In
Speaker 1: August of two thousand seventeen, the que drops hadn't started yet.
Speaker 1: So and this is something this pattern continues to happen, right,
Speaker 1: There were also multiple UM you know, tweets or Facebook
Speaker 1: posts or whatever that would start to use things like
Speaker 1: save the Children, Save our Children, wake Up America, and
Speaker 1: stuff like that before you would have the big scale
Speaker 1: takeover by Q and on when things were starting to
Speaker 1: get really popular, because the save the Children thing really
Speaker 1: went viral in the summer of but you could still
Speaker 1: see elements of it before that point. Repeatedly out. Another
Speaker 1: early instance of using both save the Children and Wake
Speaker 1: Up America hashtags started happening on UM April. I believe
Speaker 1: that is a two thousand nineteen and bear in mind
Speaker 1: wake Up America UM is a hashtag that's not only
Speaker 1: used by Q and on proponents UM in relation to
Speaker 1: the whole like accelerationism. I'm trying to yet deep state
Speaker 1: stuff UM, but also like Aaron Brewer, one of the
Speaker 1: people that was involved in some of the clinic protests harassments,
Speaker 1: was using that exactly. No, it wasn't just It was
Speaker 1: wasn't just Brewer, it was like both brew It was
Speaker 1: that was the clinic protest that involved both UM partners
Speaker 1: gilthicalk RPC, which Brewer was remember like one of the
Speaker 1: founders of at the time and one of the leaders
Speaker 1: of and Joey Bright's like can't I get a witness?
Speaker 1: Like they teamed up to stage a bunch of clinic
Speaker 1: protests that they used wake up like wag of America
Speaker 1: with one of the slogans that they used in one
Speaker 1: of the hashtags to to to make sure we're getting this. Uh,
Speaker 1: these are protest against clinics that offer gender firm and care. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah that um yeah that happened that one, so yeah,
Speaker 1: the way Up America one was in um felt like City,
Speaker 1: New York City and l A. Yeah. And they also,
Speaker 1: I mean speaking of us, they also have used the
Speaker 1: slogan pulled back the curtain um, which has also been
Speaker 1: used by uh like anti choice activists, Like that was
Speaker 1: I remember, like like finding like they used pulled back
Speaker 1: the curtain a lot to be like they what they
Speaker 1: mean is like they're like exposed the evil gender industry.
Speaker 1: But like there's other this like um anti abortion group.
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on which one off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: But they also used that um pulled back the curtain
Speaker 1: to go after planning parent it yeah, which I think
Speaker 1: is like probably like that doesn't in for a direct connection,
Speaker 1: but it seems like that's too much of a coincidence
Speaker 1: in one of the one of the things that I
Speaker 1: really want to stress about this called like what I
Speaker 1: call tan on thing, is that like the seeds for this,
Speaker 1: the cross pollination that we are seeing happening between the
Speaker 1: gender critical movement, Pizza Gate, and Q and on, like
Speaker 1: these were already in place before Q and On formally
Speaker 1: developed as its own phenomenon. This keeps happening. It's you
Speaker 1: can't really like figure out where one particular type of
Speaker 1: rhetoric is necessarily coming from in terms of its source,
Speaker 1: because it just keeps going back and forth repeatedly. People
Speaker 1: are acting like they're coming up with a lot of
Speaker 1: the same ideas together because in the end, in the end,
Speaker 1: they are of the same routs. They are in fundamental
Speaker 1: agreement with each other, whether they're calling themselves different names.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's worrying to me in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, partly because you know, I mean, this has
Speaker 1: always been something where if you look at the rhetoric
Speaker 1: that these people are spreading, it's like it's explicitly extermination ist,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's you know, like they they're they're storychiatric terrorists,
Speaker 1: like in search of a like a quote unquote load wolf,
Speaker 1: and in a lot of you know, and in the
Speaker 1: in the seventies, I think they were there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot more explicit violence that these people are doing directly,
Speaker 1: and now they're kind of like they're they're they're trying
Speaker 1: to find people who will do their already work for them,
Speaker 1: and there are places where they found them already. We've
Speaker 1: seen this in Mexico and in the US. The people
Speaker 1: who they seem to be recruiting are people who are
Speaker 1: extremely dangerous. We've we've seen q and on people have
Speaker 1: killed enormous numbers of people. Um, you know, we've there's
Speaker 1: a long history of of abortion clinic bombings and people
Speaker 1: getting assassinated for that. I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the connections that I've been sort of like
Speaker 1: looking at is the extent to which this stuff is
Speaker 1: connected to the Atlantis shooting. Because if you if you
Speaker 1: look at the stuff, the Atlanta shooter believes it's you know,
Speaker 1: like he's in this like in the same sort of
Speaker 1: Christian patriarchal project, and his thing is specifically about sex workers.
Speaker 1: But hey, look if you look at yeah, but not
Speaker 1: particularly Asian sex workers. And you know, if if if
Speaker 1: you if you look at the anti trafficking groups, you
Speaker 1: look at the Christian anti trafficking groups, and you look
Speaker 1: at the vent diagram with them and the Turfs, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: and people are involved, yeah, particular world, and yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's this kind of vice closing in on trans people
Speaker 1: were on the one hand, you have these people attempting
Speaker 1: to employ the violence of the state, and on the
Speaker 1: other hand you have this sort of story giatric terrorism,
Speaker 1: where are attempting to incite violence by sort of individuals.
Speaker 1: And then also I mean, I think I think there's
Speaker 1: you know, there's sort of there's sort of two forms
Speaker 1: of this, right there's the explicit people who are explicitly
Speaker 1: like quote unquote political right of you have your sort
Speaker 1: of like ideological street fascist. You have like you know,
Speaker 1: you have your people with baseball bast covered and barred wire.
Speaker 1: But then you also have the stuff that's been fueling
Speaker 1: antiation violence where it's not necessarily like you know, there
Speaker 1: is this is an organization that like Hayes Asian people,
Speaker 1: it's we will just sort of passively increase the rhetoric
Speaker 1: until the level of violence increases. Yeah. Yeah, it kind
Speaker 1: of got like you've got the street fash and then
Speaker 1: you've got the intellectual fash. Yeah. Well, and and I
Speaker 1: think but I think also there's there's another like if
Speaker 1: it was just those people, I think it'd be less bad.
Speaker 1: But but there's also just the way in which just
Speaker 1: random people who are encountering this become very quickly radicalized
Speaker 1: and it becomes part of sort of I mean, in church,
Speaker 1: roubic violence has always been part of the sort of
Speaker 1: background violence in the same way that anti black and
Speaker 1: to I mean, you know, okay, the level of anti
Speaker 1: black violence is much higher, but like the level of
Speaker 1: violence against black trans people in particular, and the level
Speaker 1: of anti asition violence we've been seeing that has just
Speaker 1: sort of it's just a part of the background violence
Speaker 1: of American society, and that the levels of those things,
Speaker 1: the more this rhetoric gets circulated and the more this
Speaker 1: activism happens, that background level of violence increases, And that
Speaker 1: to me is also terrifying because it means like it's
Speaker 1: not just sort of like fascist that you can track,
Speaker 1: it's just someone on the street. Yeah, and like yeah,
Speaker 1: they're just sort of like trying to like like associate
Speaker 1: like well, I mean a lot of the like yeah
Speaker 1: that like people like like Feli and Aaron m Alex
Speaker 1: their and the Gender Mapper and Joey Brands uff like that,
Speaker 1: like they're they're hardcore like elimination as like they're like
Speaker 1: they're over and over. There could be no compromised. And
Speaker 1: I would also especially like anti fascist networks to pay
Speaker 1: more attention to it, as you know, the solidarity with
Speaker 1: trans people is just as important as solidarity with like
Speaker 1: racial and ethnic minorities when it comes to combating fact, right,
Speaker 1: especially since like there are a number of us that
Speaker 1: are in multiple categories, so like let's all work together
Speaker 1: and try to like you know, be proactive about combating
Speaker 1: the threat. Right. So my my tan on Um collections,
Speaker 1: I guess like I only have two reports on it
Speaker 1: so far because getting into the full detail is just
Speaker 1: it is a lengthy project, and I keep getting distracted
Speaker 1: by by the conversion therapy stuff. There's so much stuff
Speaker 1: to research, and there's like we're like two people and
Speaker 1: and yeah, anyway, so ever, in terms of finding that
Speaker 1: like the original kind of like broader views of tn
Speaker 1: on both like what it is in terms of like
Speaker 1: the one oh one kind of stuff, and also like
Speaker 1: the timeline of where it came from. You can find
Speaker 1: it on Health Liberation Now dot com. We have a
Speaker 1: little tap there that has like analysis and then if
Speaker 1: you go down to key issues, you can find a
Speaker 1: tn on tag there right and it'll have that stuff
Speaker 1: in there. This has been a thing that throughout this
Speaker 1: entire series, which is that most of the information on
Speaker 1: this stuff has been compiled by a very small number
Speaker 1: of trans people, and that cannot stay the states of
Speaker 1: this because there are just not enough trans people and
Speaker 1: they are extremely overworked. Yeah, and if that's a project
Speaker 1: that you can take up, please do that, Yes, please, yes,
Speaker 1: hands on deck, I'll hands on back. Yeah, because the
Speaker 1: seriousness of this is such that if you want there
Speaker 1: to be trans people living in a way that does
Speaker 1: not actively destroy them, you have to act now. Yeah. Basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: this has been It could Happen here a product of
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