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Speaker 1: Welcome to Money Making Conversations.

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Speaker 2: It's the show that she is the secrets of success

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Speaker 2: experience firsthand by Marketing and Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I

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Speaker 2: will know he's giving me advice on many occasions. And

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Speaker 2: in case you didn't notice, I'm not broke. You know

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Speaker 2: he'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs and industry decision make

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Speaker 2: because it's what he likes to do, it's what he

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Speaker 2: likes to share. Now it's time to hear from my man,

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Speaker 2: Rashan McDonald money Making Conversations.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: Hi, this is Rashaan McDonald. Was so eloquently spoken by

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Speaker 3: the one and only. Hey, I welcome to money Making

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Speaker 3: Conversation masterclass. Wow, you know I have a great show today.

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Speaker 3: I feel I have a great show every time I

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Speaker 3: opened his mic, so I kind of like put myself down,

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I got a great show today. Rashawn,

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Speaker 3: you you need to look.

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Speaker 1: In the mirror.

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Speaker 4: Brother.

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Speaker 3: You just kind of slammed yourself. Now, just kidding. I

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Speaker 3: think today is as it is every week. There's no

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Speaker 3: perfect time to start following your dreams. Because I recognize

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Speaker 3: that we all have different definitions of success for you.

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Speaker 3: It may be the size of your paycheck mine is

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Speaker 3: inspiring you to accomplish your goals and live your very

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Speaker 3: best life. It's time to stop reading other people's success

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Speaker 3: stories and start.

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Speaker 1: Living your own.

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Speaker 3: People always talk about their purpose a gift. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you have a gift, not gifts, because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people say gifts. You have to be focused. Focus,

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Speaker 3: focus on one thing, get it right, then move on.

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Speaker 3: Don't focus on a lot of things and get them

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Speaker 3: all wrong. Lead with that gift, and don't let your friends, family,

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Speaker 3: or co worker stop you from planning or living your dreams.

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Speaker 3: Let's get money making conversations started. First guest, you know

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Speaker 3: it's going to be Emily Lynn Pauls, and she would

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Speaker 3: take us into the world of multi level of marketing,

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Speaker 3: which I know nothing about. It's going to be an interview.

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Speaker 3: I don't want you guys to miss You can't miss it. Emily,

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Speaker 3: she's on the line right now.

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Speaker 1: She's waiting.

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Speaker 3: She's waiting to talk to Reshans. She's waiting to tell

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Speaker 3: everybody her life experiences in that world. And it's a

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Speaker 3: great book. I read the book. It's a very thick book.

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Speaker 3: So if you're a person who likes to read little

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Speaker 3: bitty books do not. Her book is great. It'll keep

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Speaker 3: you focus because it's very funny, it's very uh whoh,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot and it's great. And then second guest

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Speaker 3: guess would be me. I'll be on the show today

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Speaker 3: of Coase. She said with Shane, you're always on the

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Speaker 3: show because you're hosting the show. Ah, well, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: but you'll be able to talk to me today because

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about how to be a successful

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Speaker 3: business owner. Wow, I'm gonna tell you the mistakes I

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Speaker 3: made because in order to be successful in anything, I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna tell you you have to have made mistakes.

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Speaker 3: We are gonna get this show started. She is on

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Speaker 3: the line. My guess is Emily Lynn Paulsen. She's the

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Speaker 3: author of Heyhun Sales, Sisterhood Supremacy, and the Other Lines

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Speaker 3: behind Multi Level of Marketing. Emily signed up for this

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Speaker 3: Sisterhood free cars, the promise of a successful business of

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Speaker 3: her own. Instead, she ended up with an addiction, broken friendships,

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Speaker 3: and the rubble of a topo pyramid scheme. My guest

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Speaker 3: rose to the top and in her tell all book

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Speaker 3: you read about an eye opening, funny and dangerous personal

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Speaker 3: story rising to the top of the pyramid world and

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Speaker 3: multi level marketing as we all know of it. I

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Speaker 3: know nothing about this. Please welcome to the money making

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Speaker 3: Conversation master class I spoke to earlier. She's passionate about

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Speaker 3: what she has to say. Emily Land Paulson, how are

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Speaker 3: you doing, Emily?

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Speaker 5: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, Emily, where are you based at?

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Speaker 5: I am actually in central Oregon, so other coast.

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Speaker 3: I've been out there. I've been to Portland, Oregon a

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Speaker 3: couple of times. Really really really woos the.

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Speaker 1: Area up, a lot of good fishing and hunting, correct,

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Speaker 1: am I.

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Speaker 5: Right, that's right, yp So.

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Speaker 3: You've always lived up in the in that area of

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Speaker 3: the country. Did you go to college up there? Schooling

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Speaker 3: up there? What keeps you in Portland, Oregon? Because I'm

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Speaker 3: assuming it's not Portland, organ is Central Oregon? Because the family,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure keeping you up there now.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I've kind of been all around. I

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Speaker 5: grew up in Montana, was in California, then I was

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Speaker 5: on Pennsylvania for a while in Seattle. This is really

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Speaker 5: just where we kind of met in the middle. We

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Speaker 5: wanted a little more world can you.

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Speaker 3: All West coast. See, I think you've kind of doted

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Speaker 3: over the Pennsylvania. Now what what what made you dot

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Speaker 3: over the Pennsylvania and drug you right back? You said

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Speaker 3: my Dana Califonia see at Pennsylvania. Hold hold, hold old.

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Speaker 3: How did you get to Pennsylvania and what made you

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Speaker 3: go back?

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Speaker 5: It was a little detour. So it was my husband's

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Speaker 5: job took us out there outside of Philadelphia and we

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Speaker 5: loved it. We loved it, and then it was his

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Speaker 5: job took us back. So we've been mostly on this

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Speaker 5: side of the country.

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Speaker 1: Cool. Well great.

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Speaker 3: I'm based in Atlanta and my show is UH is

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Speaker 3: streamed and is also a podcast, is live right now

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Speaker 3: and I try to bring on guests that tell to

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Speaker 3: educate me. And the first thing I got to ask

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Speaker 3: is what is multi level marketing?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? So multi level marketing, you know their corporations and

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Speaker 5: they use a business model that involves getting contractors, so

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Speaker 5: just people, do you sign up to independent contractor sell

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Speaker 5: product the family and friends, and then they recruit other

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Speaker 5: people to do the same. So you know, it's different

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Speaker 5: in direct selling. You know, just selling a product to

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Speaker 5: one person direct from the company. Is that you have

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Speaker 5: these levels of pay, and you're rewarded for recruiting other

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Speaker 5: people to sell the same thing. So it's the multi

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Speaker 5: level thing that makes it different from just regular sales.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So now I've always heard this all my life from insurance.

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Speaker 3: People try to get me to sell insurance, but there's

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Speaker 3: always tied to you, well, you got to get more

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Speaker 3: people to sell. That way you get more people. Then

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Speaker 3: also you make money off the people you get. Is

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Speaker 3: that am I mistaking?

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Speaker 1: That's it?

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Speaker 5: Nope, that's that's it. Yep.

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Speaker 3: So I so the whole purpose with people have always

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Speaker 3: approached me about multi level marketing. If I always said, hey,

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Speaker 3: we'll show they're making money over there. Brother, you're missing out.

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Speaker 3: I said, who over there? What do you got to

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Speaker 3: We'll see what happens. Is you you you selling insurance,

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Speaker 3: but really you sell insured, but you want to get

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Speaker 3: other people beneath you, and then you want those people

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Speaker 3: beneath you to get other people beneath them, and then

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Speaker 3: you want people another level underneath you. So now you've

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Speaker 3: got all these levels beneath you, which enables you to

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Speaker 3: get paid based on their efforts.

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Speaker 5: Correct exactly?

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Speaker 3: Wow, and how did you get involved with that? Does

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Speaker 3: you sound like, you pretty smart to me. When I

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Speaker 3: when they told me that I ran, I ran for

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Speaker 3: the heels. I went, oh, I'm not going to do this.

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Speaker 3: This is just sounds weird to me. It means that

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Speaker 3: that means that I'm telling other people that just work,

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Speaker 3: so I won't work technically.

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Speaker 5: Correct, right right. Well, so the idea is that you know,

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Speaker 5: you you're basically going into business with your friends and family.

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Speaker 5: That's how it sold, right, And I think part of

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Speaker 5: the reason is, you know, like you, I didn't really

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Speaker 5: understand what it was at first either, and instead of

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Speaker 5: maybe doing more research on my end, I thought, Hey,

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Speaker 5: here's my friend who's telling me about this, and I

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Speaker 5: trust her. She seems trustworthy. I don't think she'd lead

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Speaker 5: me astray. And I thought, you know what, what's the harm?

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Speaker 5: What's the harm in trying this out? So I really

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Speaker 5: kind of ran with ignorance, I guess in the beginning,

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Speaker 5: instead of you know, like you did, run the other direction.

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Speaker 3: Right, But it's but it's the call of potential money

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Speaker 3: making opportunities.

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Speaker 1: They pique your interest. That's what piqued my interests, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, because because because everybody who's making money is very

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Speaker 3: vocal about it a very they live, they drive nice cars,

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Speaker 3: they live in a good house.

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Speaker 1: They're very and almost like religious about it. They preach

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 3: They almost like make you feel like you missing out

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Speaker 3: an opportunity, like you're not a smart person for participating.

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Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Well, and you hear the stories of the

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Speaker 5: very very very small percentage at the top, and you

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Speaker 5: hear so you hear it so much that you think, oh,

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Speaker 5: this must be most people's experience, because that's what I'm hearing.

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Speaker 5: But what you don't hear is that you know, ninety

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Speaker 5: nine percent of people are not there, They're not at

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Speaker 5: the pinnacle, right, So you kind of hold on to

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Speaker 5: this hope. Well, gosh, I could be that person, I

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Speaker 5: could drive that car, I could make all that money.

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Speaker 5: It could be me right right.

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Speaker 3: Well, guess what, hey, hun Sales Sister, who is Supremacy

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Speaker 3: and the other lines behind multi level Marketing? I'm speaking

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Speaker 3: to Emilyley and Paulson about this book, And the reason

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Speaker 3: I brought on the show was that, you know, we

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Speaker 3: hear a lot of but we always want to get

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Speaker 3: to that finish line. We always want to be able

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Speaker 3: to make a lot of money in our life. Well,

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Speaker 3: you walked away from forty thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: You quit. That's a lot of money.

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Speaker 5: It is, it is, And you know that was at

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Speaker 5: one period of time. I didn't make that every month

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Speaker 5: of the entire time. You know, that's one thing about

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Speaker 5: multi level marketing too. It fluctuates a lot, and it's

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Speaker 5: you know, very it's like a house of cards built

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Speaker 5: on sand really like. So for me, I got to

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Speaker 5: this place where I was doing all the things and

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Speaker 5: it was working for me. So I was in that

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Speaker 5: very small percentage, and I assumed because it had worked

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Speaker 5: for me, that other people, if they did the same

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Speaker 5: thing I did, it would work for them too. And

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Speaker 5: over time I realized, well, shoot, this is not working

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Speaker 5: for other people. Why not? And it was because mathematically

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Speaker 5: it couldn't. You know, there's only so many people. Things

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Speaker 5: get saturated. And I really was making money because so

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Speaker 5: many other people were losing money. And that was a

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Speaker 5: realization that made me, you know, make my exit.

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Speaker 3: Okay, cool, now, all let's started for you. Twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: I believe that's when I've read in the book yep

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Speaker 3: or twenty fourteen and.

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Speaker 1: Walk us through the steps. Where were you in your

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Speaker 1: life before you got into this world. Were you happy?

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Speaker 1: Were you working?

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Speaker 6: You?

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Speaker 3: Did you use marriage? You had kids? What did you

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Speaker 3: Were you looking for a part time job? Are we

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Speaker 3: looking for extra income? What pushed you in this direction

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Speaker 3: that made you just take off the blinders and just

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Speaker 3: see nothing but the opportunity.

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, So I was, you know, a stay at

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Speaker 5: home mom. I had been out of the workforce for

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Speaker 5: almost ten years because I, you know, stayed at home

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Speaker 5: with the kids and my husband, you know, traditional kind

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Speaker 5: of roles. He worked out of the house, and I

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Speaker 5: really just I wanted something like I just wanted some

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Speaker 5: escape from the mundane. I wanted to be able to contribute.

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Speaker 5: You know. It had been a long time since I'd

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Speaker 5: had any recognition for anything really, and so when this

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Speaker 5: came into my life, it was it kind of filled

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Speaker 5: all those pain points. It was like, Okay, well this

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Speaker 5: is it could be potential money. You know, there's some

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Speaker 5: really cool products that I could use. It's something outside

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Speaker 5: of what I'm doing now. It gives me a little

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Speaker 5: escape to go do something, meet with friends, you know,

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Speaker 5: go have wine whatever, go to these like retention events.

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Speaker 5: And I thought, you know, I just I just had

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Speaker 5: hope that it could be something, and then it was

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Speaker 5: packaged up with this community of other women who were

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Speaker 5: all doing the same thing. So it really just fell

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Speaker 5: into my lafe this time when I think I was

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Speaker 5: just lonely, I was looking for other options, and I

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Speaker 5: just had a lot of hope that it could fill all.

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Speaker 1: Those needs lonely though. Yeah, what was the product?

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Speaker 5: So, yeah, it was wellness skincare. You know, there was

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Speaker 5: a kind of a wide range of products, but it

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Speaker 5: was mostly you know, skincare products.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been approached with the vitamins. I've been through coffee,

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Speaker 3: I've been approached. The very first time I was approached

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Speaker 3: was insurance. I remember I was in college. It was

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Speaker 3: insurance in bar. I'm just letting everybody know. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's not trapped to a white community or a Hispanic

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Speaker 3: community or a black community. Its multi level marketing is everywhere.

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Speaker 3: It's everywhere, and it's whoever was pitching that story. But

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Speaker 3: it's always the person at the top of the pair,

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Speaker 3: a bit at the top of it that's singing the

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Speaker 3: highest praises about making money. Because the more people that

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Speaker 3: get underneath them, then guess what the money goes up.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole process.

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Speaker 3: So their their role is to convince thousand people that

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Speaker 3: being underneath them and they live in the wealth of

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Speaker 3: your hard work. And so you're in So you so

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Speaker 3: you were you excited?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: You somebody told you they do you go to a class?

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Speaker 3: Did you go to a seminar? Did you do something

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Speaker 3: on the line? How did you get your training?

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Speaker 5: You know, there really isn't any training. You're just joining

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Speaker 5: up a friend and you basically are signing your your

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Speaker 5: social Security number and your credit card number and and

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Speaker 5: you're basically doing you know, you're putting your livelihood into

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Speaker 5: this person's hands. And so they're telling you kind of

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Speaker 5: well you're smart.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I go, you're smart now, you know, so you

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Speaker 3: walk right into this. I heard the word lonely in there,

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Speaker 3: so I can under you susceptible whenever the emotions are

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Speaker 3: tied to decisions, okay. And so now this is a stranger, correct.

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Speaker 5: It was actually a friend. It was a friend from

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Speaker 5: high school, you know, a distant friend, but someone who

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Speaker 5: you know was raised in the same town. I was

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Speaker 5: in someone who I trusted and I had this supposed

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Speaker 5: proof on social media that she was succeeding. And so

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Speaker 5: I kind of trusted that if I did what she

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Speaker 5: said that that would work for me too.

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Speaker 1: And what was what would work for you.

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Speaker 3: I'm just asking these questions because you know the story,

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Speaker 3: and I'm just trying to pull the story out of

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Speaker 3: you a little bit more detailed because of the fact

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Speaker 3: that you know in some ways, you know there's there's

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Speaker 3: a bigger story behind all this because a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are falling. I want to use the word victim

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Speaker 3: because we all make decisions. And you know, if I'd

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Speaker 3: have chose to get into selling insurance, or selling coffee

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Speaker 3: or selling vitamins, that was my decision. It's when you

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Speaker 3: get in and how the approach of how you have

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Speaker 3: to be successful is what the decision that made you

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Speaker 3: come out of it?

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Speaker 1: Come out of it. But it took you a while.

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Speaker 1: How long were you in the in the How long

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Speaker 1: were you selling?

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Speaker 5: Almost seven years?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so he was in there for a minute. Now,

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Speaker 3: you didn't just dive in and just come on back

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 5: Oh No, I was in deep. I was in really deep.

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Speaker 3: So for twenty fourteen, twenty twenty one, basically you was

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Speaker 3: in the world of multi level marketing. Now let's talk

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Speaker 3: about because everything's based on I don't want to use

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Speaker 3: any words that sound negative, but everything's based on a pyramid.

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Speaker 3: You know a lot of people at the bottom and

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Speaker 3: you go up to the top. How did you start

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Speaker 3: building your your Could I use the word followers or

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Speaker 3: your sales team?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, certainly followers are downline. It's usually called downline.

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Speaker 1: How did you start building that?

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Speaker 5: Honestly, I did the same thing that my friend who

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Speaker 5: you know had me, who enrolled me did. I just

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Speaker 5: started talking to people. I started talking to my friends.

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Speaker 5: And one thing that I had going for me is

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Speaker 5: that in the area I was living in at the time,

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Speaker 5: and I was living in Seattle at the time, there

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Speaker 5: were not a lot of people who knew about this company,

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Speaker 5: who knew about these products. So I had that on

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Speaker 5: my as When people heard of this, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: those look cool, I've never heard of this before. Sure

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Speaker 5: I'll try them, And so I didn't. I wasn't competing

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Speaker 5: with anybody, and so I had that going for me.

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Speaker 5: I also had going for me the fact that you know,

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Speaker 5: first of all, these are all buy in organizations. You

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Speaker 5: have to pay to play. So I bought the whatever

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Speaker 5: thousand dollars kits to join. Wow, right, not cheap? Right,

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Speaker 5: these like these things are not inexpensive to join. But

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Speaker 5: again that's all danced around because you know you're getting

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Speaker 5: all this products and you get to try everything. And

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Speaker 5: to me, I was kind of like, oh sure, I

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Speaker 5: like all this stuff. You know, why the heck not?

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Speaker 5: And I obviously you know, so I had that going

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Speaker 5: for me. I had the.

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Speaker 3: Privilege thought, I want to go to this break and

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Speaker 3: when we come back, I want to finish this conversation

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Speaker 3: because what happens if I let me let you continue,

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Speaker 3: you won't finish the thought.

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Speaker 6: You are now tuned into the money making conversations.

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Speaker 1: Minute of Inspiration with Rashawn McDonald La.

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Speaker 4: Nay Love what You Pray of You A and M

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Speaker 4: University and You Texas for about four years and got

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Speaker 4: her engineering degree. Lonnie worked as an engineer for IBM

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Speaker 4: and other companies for more than ten years. Did she

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Speaker 4: realized that engineering was not her passion. Stand up comedy

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Speaker 4: was her gift.

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Speaker 7: I just think everybody should tell their journey, and especially

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Speaker 7: people of color. People don't understand how hard it is

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Speaker 7: for us to make it. That's why I want everybody,

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Speaker 7: especially during the pandemic, to share their story, you know,

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Speaker 7: and so this is my story. I grew up in

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Speaker 7: Detroit and the Brewster Projects, and it just takes you

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Speaker 7: through that whole life thing, because you know, some people

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Speaker 7: only know me from real or from Chelsea Ladley or

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Speaker 7: you know the shows that Rashan will put me on.

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Speaker 7: So but you know, it's a whole journey.

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Speaker 4: If you want to hear this full interview with Lonnie Love,

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Speaker 4: visit Moneymaking Conversations dot com.

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Speaker 1: Keep winning.

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Speaker 6: Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for returning. And I'm speaking of Emily Lynn

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Speaker 3: Paul's about her journey. You know, she has a background

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Speaker 3: as a chemist. She's an advocate for the truth. She

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Speaker 3: talks about in her book The Journey of this fascinating

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Speaker 3: World of Multi Level Marketing. She sees it as a

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Speaker 3: cult and the virality of misinformation. And they preyed upon

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Speaker 3: her and she felt her world of isolation because she

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Speaker 3: was a stay at home mom and that isolation they

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Speaker 3: use a lot on a lot of women who will

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Speaker 3: stay at home mom all feel isolated. And as you

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Speaker 3: as you were telling your story about getting involved, that

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Speaker 3: that played a major role in you you spend a

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars, so you immediately got to recoup your investment, correct.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you got to recoup the investments. And that's

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Speaker 5: why a lot of people don't ever make money, because

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Speaker 5: you're starting out in the negative to begin with.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: So for me, it was you know, talking to friends

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Speaker 5: and family and trying to get them to try the

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Speaker 5: products I was selling and trying to get them to

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Speaker 5: join the same way I did. And what happened, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, just as luck I should have it. In

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Speaker 5: my case, I did have friends who are interested, and

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Speaker 5: like I trusted my upline who I joined, you know,

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Speaker 5: they trusted me. They said, well, you join this so

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Speaker 5: you know you're a smart person, right like, you wouldn't

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Speaker 5: lead us astray. And so they joined as well, and

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Speaker 5: so pretty quickly I recoup my investments and then started

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Speaker 5: you know the love bombing where I was getting you know,

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Speaker 5: mentioned in team newsletters and tagged on social media, and

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Speaker 5: I was getting little gifts in the mail, and I

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Speaker 5: was all of a sudden getting you know, rewarded and uh,

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Speaker 5: you know noticed for things that I hadn't been noticed

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Speaker 5: for in a really long time.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying that. Now, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you to Emily, this book is about

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Speaker 3: this book you wrote. Okay, you just talked about your

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Speaker 3: level of isolation, your level of insecurities, and like I said,

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Speaker 3: pick attention. That's being brought to you. A stay at

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Speaker 3: home mom, a great stay at home mom. You know

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Speaker 3: you educated obviously because I mentioned you a chemist. So

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Speaker 3: is this something just happened to you or this can

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Speaker 3: happen to anyone.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's gonna happen to anybody. It really can. And

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Speaker 5: you know, there's a reason that a lot of the

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Speaker 5: stories in multi level marketing start just like mine, like

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Speaker 5: oh I was lonely and then I joined, or you know,

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Speaker 5: I had just lost my job and then I joined,

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Speaker 5: or just gotten divorced. It really does. There's a lot

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Speaker 5: of pain points and MLMs really do prey on that vulnerability.

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Speaker 5: So anyone in any kind of vulnerable position is susceptible.

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Speaker 3: Now in twenty fourteen, there's a journey in all this.

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Speaker 3: You're getting your friends, the people you know, and they

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Speaker 3: getting their friends people they know, They getting relatives and

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Speaker 3: love would underneath them.

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Speaker 1: That's what the whole that's how multi level of marketing works.

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Speaker 3: You get other people to be underneath you, they get

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Speaker 3: other people being underneath them.

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Speaker 1: That's how it works.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 3: So now what I immediately hear is that you've invited your

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Speaker 3: friends to this world. They committed. One thousand dollars can

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Speaker 3: get you a certain kind of a way, okay, but

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Speaker 3: you get you Your success is being reaped off the

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Speaker 3: fact that you brought them on.

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Speaker 5: Bull mm hmm exactly.

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Speaker 1: Now when did they start looking at you sideways?

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Speaker 5: So you know, I I kind of started looking at

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Speaker 5: the sideways when I was, you know, coaching them, just

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Speaker 5: like I was being coached to, you know, reach out

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Speaker 5: to people to you know, do these cold calls to

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Speaker 5: do all this income producing activity and personal development. And

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Speaker 5: yet they weren't growing the same way I was. And

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Speaker 5: you know, mathematically they couldn't because obviously we were in

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Speaker 5: the same network trying to recruit the same people, and

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Speaker 5: it just doesn't work that way. So, you know, a

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Speaker 5: lot of those platitudes like you know, take it till

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Speaker 5: you make it and you know, just keep grinding, you know,

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Speaker 5: you'll right, like it's you hear a lot of those things,

439
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 5: and a lot of those things are repeated, so you

440
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 5: just think, gosh, if I just keep working harder. It's

441
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 5: this meritocracy where you know you don't want to quit

442
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 5: because you think, if I just did one more thing,

443
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 5: one more cold call, maybe that will be the thing

444
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 5: that you know, pushes me over the edge, it makes

445
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 5: me successful.

446
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 3: And that's why you were saying okay, because we mentioned

447
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 3: in your bio it said, you know, you made up

448
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 3: to forty thousand dollars a month. You used to reach

449
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 3: on hold up, hold up, hold up. I didn't do

450
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 3: that every month, but once you start making money, you

451
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 3: kind of like hooked. So if you made up to

452
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: forty thousand dollars a money, the possibilities starts to drive you.

453
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 3: At what point in the in this lane of opportunities

454
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 3: from twenty fourteen to twenty to twenty one, did you

455
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 3: feel you peaked as a representative or as a person

456
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 3: in emaill.

457
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 5: I would say twenty seventeen. And you know, something interesting

458
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 5: happened at that point is I got sober, which you

459
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 5: write obviously read in the book. And that was a

460
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 5: big part of my awakening, really was I wasn't drinking anymore.

461
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 5: I wasn't, you know, sending cold messages after having a

462
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 5: couple of glasses champagne, and I realized I started seeing

463
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 5: a lot of this stuff. I started seeing that my

464
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 5: team wasn't really succeeding the same way that I was.

465
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 5: And that's when, you know, slowly kind of the wheels

466
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 5: started calling off the bus a little bit.

467
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: Now it says you got cancer, correct, yep. Now I

468
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 3: I'm a cancer survivor twenty fifteen. Not to make you

469
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 3: feel guilty or anything, what type of cancer did you get?

470
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 5: I had cervical cancer.

471
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 3: Okay, mine was thyroid cancer and I was twenty fifteen,

472
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: and I went through the surgery, and I feel, you.

473
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: Know, you know, a cancer, no one says one cure.

474
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 3: As long as you live in life and taking the pills,

475
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: then you live a good life and pray that everything

476
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: continues to go your way. But cancer is powerful because

477
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 3: once they tell you have cancer, you can just run

478
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 3: you up the heels and make you wonder what's going

479
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: to happen to you next? Now you got cancer, and

480
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 3: use it for pity to grow your MLL business base.

481
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: How and why?

482
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 5: Yeah? So again, like I said, the really the low

483
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 5: point is always used, right, So you're already primed to

484
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 5: look for people's vulnerabilities and so when I found out

485
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 5: I had cancer, it's my upline, and other people in

486
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 5: the company suggested like, hey, how can we make something

487
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 5: good out of this? And of course I'm thinking like,

488
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: well that would be great. You know, I'd love a distraction.

489
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 5: What you know, what can I do? And so it

490
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 5: suggested like, hey, well why don't you have a little

491
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 5: like event and then you can give your your portions

492
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 5: of your profit to charity. And like, on its face,

493
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 5: that sounds all lovely and good, but it's requiring people

494
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 5: to buy something from a company that then benefits, you know,

495
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 5: all of the people in the upline.

496
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: Fundraiser basically, right, a fundraiser.

497
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 5: For the product, right right, right. And you know, obviously

498
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 5: I donated my profit. You know, I made good on

499
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 5: my donation, but it still gave me a signal boosts

500
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 5: in the company. It still gave all of my uplines money,

501
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 5: and you know, obviously benefits the company the most because

502
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 5: it benefits the people at the top the most. And

503
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 5: so trying to do something that like seemed charitable. But

504
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 5: I could have just said, hey, do you want to

505
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 5: donate twenty dollars in this charity. I didn't have to

506
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 5: rope in a product purchase. So you know, look, it

507
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 5: made you look.

508
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 3: Good and you got the hype, you got the sale,

509
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: you got the you know, the moving on up the lane.

510
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: You got more people involved, and you knew the fact

511
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,479
Speaker 3: that every time I told somebody I had cancer, then

512
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 3: people wanted to somehow rescue me. I'm just talking personally,

513
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: wanted they felt sympathy for me. They always said what

514
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: can I do for you? So when you announced that,

515
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 3: then you had the perfect lane of opportunity and you

516
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: basically took advantage of it. I'm not saying you're a

517
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: bad person, but that's what that's what can do. That's

518
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: what can happen when you tell people you have cancer.

519
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: And so at that point, why.

520
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: Did you did you? Did you?

521
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: I'm sure guilt took over right and feel and you

522
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 3: first started feeling bad?

523
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 5: Correct, Yeah, And this was again like when I when

524
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 5: I stopped drinking. This is when a lot of these

525
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 5: things kind of started to hit me. Like, you know,

526
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 5: that wasn't on the up and up. And you know, again,

527
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 5: when you're when you put your trust into these people,

528
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 5: you know in this I would say commercial cults. You know,

529
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 5: in this group that you're listening and repeating everything they're saying,

530
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 5: and you're being coachable, and you're doing what they're telling

531
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 5: you to do. It's really easy to just fall into

532
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 5: that trap of Okay, you know, you say this is

533
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 5: a good idea and it seems like a good idea,

534
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 5: and then looking back and realizing, you know what, that

535
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 5: wasn't such a great idea.

536
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this, Emily, how did you

537
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: get out? Because to me, it's like seven years.

538
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 3: That's a lot of people you you, and I'm sure

539
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people underneath you, a lot of friends,

540
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: a lot of cousins, a lot of their friends. And

541
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: then can you just like walk away and say I'm out?

542
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: Don't they feel like angry?

543
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 5: Yeah? Oh, it was a long process of you know,

544
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 5: waking up and realizing you know that that was part

545
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 5: of it, is like, wow, I've brought so many people

546
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 5: into this, how can I just leave? You know, I

547
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 5: stayed in for a long time.

548
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: Kind of well, that kind of like validated its reality

549
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: because you was in for a long time. You know,

550
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: people just don't hang around something that's not good or

551
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: just the deceptive that long and so and so you

552
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: were in there, like you said twenty fourteen or twenty

553
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 3: twenty one, five years, six years, seven years, I'm I'm

554
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: if you tell me this is a good thing you've

555
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 3: been at five years, I'm going to listen.

556
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to listen.

557
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 3: And so now, you know, but if you're telling me

558
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: you leaving and I'm I'm following your advice, did, I

559
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: will tell you right now I'm mad at you.

560
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Yeah. So yeah, I was, you know, just

561
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 5: real honest about the process. As I was kind of

562
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 5: realizing that I didn't like a lot of the behaviors anymore.

563
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 5: You know, I stopped doing the cold calling and the

564
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 5: reaching out, and I didn't recruit people anymore, and I

565
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 5: didn't sell the products anymore. I didn't terminate my account,

566
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 5: I didn't leave, but I, you know, talk to my customers.

567
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 5: I talk to people on my team and just say, hey,

568
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 5: you know, I'm I'm uncomfortable with uncomfortable with this. I'm

569
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 5: not going to be actively selling this anymore. I'm basically

570
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 5: going to go dark. And I kind of assumed, like

571
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: I'll just stay, you know, until my paycheck drives up

572
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 5: and then that'll be it. Right And then obviously, like

573
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 5: I decided to kind of go into recovery advocacy. I

574
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 5: put this on the back burner COVID happened. I mean

575
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 5: it was kind of like this whole series of events,

576
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 5: and you know, during COVID, I really realized I could

577
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: not be associated anymore because there was so much problematic

578
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 5: and predatory activity in MLM that that's what made me finally,

579
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 5: I'll sign it. Send in the termination form.

580
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 6: We'll be right back with more money making Converse Stations

581
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 6: Masterclass with Rushawn McDonald.

582
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 8: HBCUs represent Black Excellence. If you attend or are an

583
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 8: alumnus of an HBCU, we want to hear.

584
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: About your story.

585
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 8: The MYHBCU Story digital Library will allow current HBCU students

586
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 8: and alumni to share their stories. Registration is open to everyone.

587
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 8: More information is available at HBCU college day dot com.

588
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 8: Click my HBCU Story. Next, you can upload a photo.

589
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 8: The photo can be recent or from when you attended

590
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 8: your HBCU. Then share your academic or social experience at

591
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 8: your HBCU, which can be your favorite class, hangout, joint,

592
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 8: homecoming game, student center, honor, off campus party, Greek show,

593
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 8: and how attending an HBCU changed your life. We also

594
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 8: want to hear stories if you pleasure a fraternity or sorority.

595
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 8: The goal is to use your my HBCU story to

596
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 8: promote and uplift the HBCU brand. Your HBCU prepared you

597
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 8: for success, and now we want everyone to read about

598
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 8: your black excellence. More information is available at HBCU College

599
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 8: day dot com. You can click my HBCU story to

600
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 8: share your story.

601
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 6: Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashaun McDonald.

602
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: Wow, you know, Abily or you know, I want to

603
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: thank you for coming on my show. And I'm just

604
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: just saying that because you know, you told me a

605
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: side of you that is uncomfortable, you know, because it

606
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 3: sounds kind of manipulative. It sounds kind of like, you know,

607
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: you did what you wanted to do to be successful,

608
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: and then a lot of it was tied to drinking

609
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: a lot of an addiction and you once you once

610
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: you cleared up that addiction, you started to see your

611
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: world a lot clearer and it took you on the

612
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: path of I want to say, redemption.

613
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: Is that the grect word?

614
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 7: Yeah?

615
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: You know, I just try and at this point, like

616
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 5: do the next right thing and you know believe, I

617
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 5: really believe like the best apology has changed behavior, and

618
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: that was really my reasoning behind writing the book, Like

619
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 5: I fully throw myself under the bus, you know, just

620
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 5: say like, hey, I was complicit in this, I did this,

621
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 5: and this is why you need to hear about it,

622
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 5: because this is what goes on and this is what

623
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 5: to look out for.

624
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, one day for sure, as my

625
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: listeners are listening to this, what advice would you give

626
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: them them if somebody approaches them about an MLM. Let

627
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: me ask you this. First of all, what do you

628
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: need to look for to make that will let you know?

629
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: Is an email a multi level marketing platform? What should

630
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 3: they look at?

631
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

632
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, So if you have a person talking to you

633
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 5: wanting to join a business right you know, and asking

634
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: you for a buy in, if you have to pay

635
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 5: to join, I mean that's a pretty big red flag,

636
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 5: you know. Look, you can always just give it a

637
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 5: little Google like say is this blank company in MLM

638
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: and you'll find out. But generally, if you have to

639
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 5: sign the dotted line and join, you have a sponsor

640
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 5: or an upline that is a multi level marketing company.

641
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: You know, my daughter I remember when she graduated from college. Recently,

642
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: she like, there are a lot of people are using

643
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: it as kind of like a form of employment opportunity,

644
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: and so she was going in they were saying her

645
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: sal it was fifty thousand dollars a year or sixty

646
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: thousand dollars a year, and she gotta make all these

647
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: cold calls.

648
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: She had to buy this.

649
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: So I just tell everybody is a lot of people

650
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: are using this as a form of employment. They call

651
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: it an employment, but it's not really employment. And like

652
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: you said, doe to research Google a company and it

653
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: will help you get there. But more importantly, if you

654
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: have time, and I recommend that you have time, Emily,

655
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: how can we reach out to you? And if where

656
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: can we buy this book as it don't sell right now,

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00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: Hey Hans.

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00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 5: You know what, it comes out in one week, but

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00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 5: you can pre order it anywhere. You know, always support

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00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 5: your local bookstore if you can. And I'm on all

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Speaker 5: platforms at Emily Lynn Paulsen.

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Speaker 3: Well, Emily Lynn Paulson, thank you for coming on Money

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00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: Making Conversations her book, Hey Hans, Sisterhood, Supremacy and other

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00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: Lies behind multi level Marketing. Thank you for coming on

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00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: money making a conversation mar Basterclass, you are fantastic.

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00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, Thank you for joining us for

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00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 6: this edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations

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00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 6: Masterclass with rough Shan McDonald is produced by thirty eight

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Speaker 6: to fifteen Media Inc. More information about thirty eight to

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00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 6: fifteen Media Inc. Is available at thirty eight to fifteen

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00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 6: media dot com. And always remember to lead with your

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00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 6: gifts