1 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptor Show. Today, 2 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: I am sitting down with David Garofalo. He's the CEO 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: of Gold Royalty corp Um. He's someone that is super 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: experienced in the gold industry. As a matter of fact, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: he was part of one of the largest mergers and 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: acquisitions in the gold space. A legend in the space. 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: I'm super excited to sit Downdee. David, thank you so 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: much for taking the time. Thanks for having me on Mark. Yeah, 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: so I gave just a little quick bio on you. Um. 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: You know, you're obviously a big player in the space. 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: You have a really good background and big background. Um, 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: and so I'm super excited to talk to you. But 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: why don't you just go ahead and fill in the 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: audience a little bit kind of what you've been working on, 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: maybe some of the big wins that you've had. Yeah. Sure. 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: I've been in the business for both thirty years, spent 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: equal amounts of time both in the base and precious 18 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: metal space, running copper companies and gold companies. Most recently, 19 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: I ran Gold Corps, which I merged with Newmont a 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: little over a year ago to become the biggest goal 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: producer in the world. And subsequent to that, I took 22 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: on this new role with Gold Royalty Corp. Which is 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: a dred percent of subsidiary of gold mining. We're going 24 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: to spin that out into a separate, standalone gold vehicle, 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: public vehicle that will allow us to participate in the 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: rising gold press environment. Are all enjoying right now, but 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: really through top line exposure through a percentage of revenues 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: as opposed to taking all the underlying money risk, which 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: I typically attracts a much higher multiple than gold mining 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: companies typically do. Yeah, so, I mean you've been with 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: some other companies as well. I saw Agnico, Eagle Mines, 32 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: Hudbay Minerals. I mean those they are both pretty big, 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: reputable companies into space as well. You kinda browsed over those, 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: but that's big, you know for sure. And you know, 35 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: over my dirty year career, I've been involved in the 36 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: construction of twelve minds globally UM and that's quite a 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: bit over a thirty year career. Minds are very difficult 38 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: to build from discovery uh to initial production. Typically it 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: takes fifteen to twenty years to build a new mind 40 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: to get it up into operational status. So many of 41 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: those circumstances, I was taking on a project midstream and 42 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: bringing it through the construction phase, de risking it, bringing 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: it up into commercial production. And so that's a dozen 44 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: plus basin gold gold mines over my thirty year career. 45 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: So I've got quite a bit of experienced fundamental experience 46 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: in the sector that informs our strategy at Coal Royalty. Yeah. Wow, 47 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: so fifteen minds over a thirty year career. I'm sorry 48 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: you said a dozen a dozen, right, but you said 49 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: it typically takes about fifteen years to get them up 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: and running. Um. But you typically would get them, uh 51 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: maybe kind of as like a junior producer instead of 52 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: like let someone else explore it and then pick it 53 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: up kind of at a junior producer. That's exactly right, 54 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: because the the risk tolerance for a junior explorers is 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: much higher. Um. It's it's a very little success for 56 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: racial during the discovery phase um and the highest first 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: component of the value creation equation of the mining. So 58 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: typically the juniors are really focused on that kind of 59 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial mindset, putting that risk capital to work in the 60 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: ground and and if they're successful, one out of twenty times. 61 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: That's pretty good. So generally as producers, we like to 62 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: get involved when they delineated a resource that's substantial not 63 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: for us to build into minds. So typically that could 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: be ten years into the exploration cycle. Wow, that we're 65 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: bringing in through the construction phase and taking our balance 66 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: sheet and taking our mind building expertise and leveraging that 67 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: into these exploration success stories. So it's very very uncommon, 68 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: for example, for a junior explorer to become an operator 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: typically sell out at the point they delineated that resource 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: to a significant enough scale that it attracts a producer 71 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: that's looking to replace their depleting asset base. So if 72 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: you look at the industry overall, just from a high level, 73 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: just for people that don't really know, um is it 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: kind of like maybe four levels you kind of have 75 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: like the major producer ers, the junior producers like the 76 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: junior explorers, and then the explorers. Would you say, are 77 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: how do you think ever taking? You probably combine the 78 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: ladder two into one group, and maybe it's three groups. 79 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: So you're right. You have the senior producers that tend 80 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: to have big balance chiefs access to chief capital because 81 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: if their scale they have a legion of people that 82 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: can build an engineer and operate these these operations that 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: you know you're not going to find in the junior explorer. 84 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: The mid tiers have less of accupacity, but they certainly 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: have more capacity than the junior explorers, so they tend 86 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: to look at the smaller deposits um. You know, the 87 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: bigger producers, the senior producers in our sector are looking 88 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: for elements, you know, because they're producing vast amounts of 89 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: gold on an annual basis and any big deposits to 90 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: replace what they're depleting on a year in euro basis. 91 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: And it seems like the way it works is, I mean, 92 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: the industry, it kind of feeds up, right, so you 93 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: kind of have the guys out there exploring, and then 94 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: they go into the junior producers and and eventually then 95 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: they'll be right for a merger into the into the majors. Yes, 96 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: scale matters because it is a very capital intensive business. 97 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: The bigger you are, the more liquid you are in 98 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: terms of your equity valuation um, the more likely you're 99 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: gonna have a low cost of capital because typically you're 100 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 1: spending hundreds of millions or billions to build up new mines, 101 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: so you need access to capital. The bearers to enter 102 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: are very high UM. So you don't see a lot 103 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: of companies in the senior producer space. It's a very 104 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: small universe. In fact, if you took the market cap 105 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: of all of the gold producers in the world, is 106 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: still a fraction of what Apple's market cap is buying basis. 107 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: So it's not a big industry. And so when you're 108 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: starting to see generalist money come into the space in 109 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: a significant ways, the gold prices appreciated. It really is. 110 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: And I've used this analogy before, like trying to get 111 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: a her developments through a key hole. You know, it's 112 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: a very very small sector and you know you'll blow 113 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: the doors off when that happens um and and that 114 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: has happened in past cycles. We have quite experienced that. 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: Yet we've seen a rise in goal price um goal 116 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: price and gold equities, but not certainly not to the 117 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: degree that we saw in the last full cycle ten 118 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: years ago. But that's commun in my view. Yeah, so 119 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: the last bull cycle was like two thousand and eight 120 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: to two thousand eleven, Yeah, coming out of the credit crisis. 121 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: In fact, I say ten and eleven and twelve when 122 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: gold achieved over nineteen hundred dollars announced in that in 123 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: those days in eleven dollars, and we're obviously I've exceeded 124 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: that UM in where we've exceeded two thousand dollars announced 125 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: for a brief period of time. We're just above nineteen 126 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: hundred anounced now UM. But it's it's quite a bit 127 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: different dynamic than it was ten years ago because ten 128 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: years ago we were in the midst of the supercycle 129 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: as well, UM, where China was growing at very very 130 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: high rates and was consuming a lot of base metals, 131 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, copper and zinc as they were industrializing their 132 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: economy and urbanizing their population. We're not experiencing that right now. 133 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: Chinese growth is muted. We've had trade wars, and so 134 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: I would say global growth has been in emix. So 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: the base medals have not participated to the degree that 136 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: gold has over the last year or so UM, and 137 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: so we don't have rapid costs and inflation that we 138 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: saw ten years ago that eroded the leverage proposition the 139 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: gold depletes were supposed to provide. We saw actually costs 140 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: UM inflate higher than the gold price. They have ten 141 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: years ago. That's not the case. Now. Costs are very 142 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: very stable in the gold sector. In fact, they've been 143 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: going down because of two factors. One, energy prices have 144 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: been muted and decreasing, and we're an energy intensive business. 145 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: We use a lot of diesel and big open pit minds, 146 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: and so that's part our costs down. The other thing 147 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: is the U s scholars remained strong relative to other currencies. 148 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: So if you're producing gold in Australia, South Africa or 149 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: parts of Latin America, you're enjoying a weak local currency 150 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: that's keeping your input costs low. So this is a 151 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,559 Speaker 1: sector that's actually de leveraged, generated free cash flow, paid 152 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: increasing dividends and brought backstock. You know, we're doing the 153 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: things that real businesses do that we weren't able to 154 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: do ten years ago when we saw a rapid costs inflation. 155 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: So it's a very very different dynamic right now and 156 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: it's a good place for a general's investor to be 157 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: in my view. Yeah, now, there's so much I want 158 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: to dig into, and just so for everybody listening, UM, 159 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: I want to dig in a little bit to what 160 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: you just said about the cost going down and where 161 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: we are in the market cycle. I want to really 162 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: find out about the new project that you're working on 163 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: right now. I want to kind of dig into that. 164 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: I want to dig into gold mining versus gold royalty. 165 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: And then I really want to get your idea from 166 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: a thirty year veteran of what you're seeing as far 167 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: as really drivers of gold. So just for everyone listening, 168 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: to make sure you stick around for all that. But 169 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: back to what you just said, Um, you talked about 170 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: how in the last in the last cycle, really it 171 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: was like China was building up and was consuming a 172 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: lot of base metals copper, etcetera. And and and I 173 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: guess the way I understand is that as you're pulling 174 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: copper out of the ground, typically you're getting gold and 175 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: silver as well, right, and so maybe those were kind 176 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: of like uh extra whereas today maybe you're just mining 177 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: directly for gold. Well, well they're they're both, um you know, 178 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: single metal deposits or minds and polymetallic deposits like you're 179 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: describing it, have other metals. Um. But a lot of 180 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: the gold production that we're seeing today is coming from 181 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: single purpose gold gold assets. Um. Uh. And you can't 182 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, if you're talking about a polytop polymetallic mind. 183 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: You can't selectively mind one metal versus the other because 184 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: typically in a ton of war, you're going to have 185 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: all the metals report into that deposit, and so you 186 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: really have very little elasticity of supplied to press. You're 187 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: not going to be able to uh cherry pick the 188 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: metals that you want to recover, because your your plants, 189 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: your your industrial complexes are set up to recover all 190 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: of the metals at the same time. Got it. Now 191 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious because you we talked about like the drivers 192 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: and China, you know, building, and now that's kind of 193 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: slowed down um. And that was kind of the cattle 194 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: us for gold back then. But today we don't have that. 195 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: As you said, trade wars and so forth have stifled that. 196 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: But yet we still see gold having a big demand. 197 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: So it looks like the drivers of demand, the catalysts 198 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: for gold price are different now than they were in 199 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: the last boom. Um. Yes, yes and no um. Back then, 200 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: supply of gold was increasing UM. So that you know, helped, 201 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: I think if anything, undermined demand supply fundamentals of gold. 202 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: But demand was outpacing needing the supply increases. We saw then, 203 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: but mind supply of goal is actually peaked out. We've 204 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: seen reserves declined by both fifty over the last seven years. 205 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: So we've got everything going for goal right now. We've 206 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: had strong, very robust demand for a number of factors 207 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: I'll talk about in a minute, but mind supply is 208 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: coming down simply because we have been replacing what we've 209 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: been depleting over the last seven years. We haven't put 210 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: money back into the ground into expliration is. So we 211 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: we've seen a state depletion of reserves in the ground 212 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: over the last seven years. Again, by and so everything 213 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: the stars are aligning, both in terms of demand and supply. 214 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: On the demand side, really, what's driving it is what 215 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: drove it ten years ago. Ten years ago, during the 216 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: credit crisis, interest rates plummeted, and gold, if you think 217 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: about it, is not really a commodity. It's a currency. 218 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: It's a currency. It has been a currency for millennia. 219 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: You know, the star or the Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar, 220 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: the euro, they're all johnny come lately to the currency market. 221 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: They've only been around for you know, hundreds of low 222 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. Gold has been a currency for four 223 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: thousand years. What drives one currency to go up relative 224 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: to another as relative interest rates, and you know, sovereign 225 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: debt today across the world is yielding effectively zero and 226 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: to negative on both phenomenal and real basis. Gold has 227 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: always yield zero, but zero looks pretty good good in 228 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: a negative interest rate environment, so it's seen as a 229 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: store of value. So that's why that currency is going 230 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: up relative to the US dollar, relative to the Euro, 231 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: relative to the Australian dollar. There's a competitive debasement of 232 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: via currency going on right now on according to global basis. 233 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: In other words, the central banks are printing money with 234 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: reckless abandoned and they're doing that because the governments are 235 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: strapping on on president levels of debt um and we're 236 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: seeing central banks not only buy that debt, but they're 237 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: buying corporate debt as well, and they're doing that with 238 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: printed money. So that's undermining the value of their paper currency. Obviously, 239 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: if there's an infinite supply of this paper currency, which 240 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: there is. It really it's only limited by whether printing 241 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: preston run or not um, then gold is going to 242 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: go up because it's quite finite and quantity and just 243 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: to give you a visual but how finite goal quantity is. 244 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: Since the beginning of time, there's been two hundred thousand 245 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: metric tons of gold. Mind, that's all the goal that's 246 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: on surface right now. If you put that into an 247 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: Olympic sized swimming pool would fill four swimming pools. It's tiny, 248 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: so some minute quantity physically speaking, and so you can 249 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: imagine as capital starts to get reallocated to this currency, 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: to this commodity goal, it doesn't take a lot to 251 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: move it dramatically. Yeah, yeah, for sure, that's a that's 252 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: an amazing picture that you paint and something that I 253 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: talked about a lot um. I talk a lot about 254 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: FED policy, interest rates and things like that, and so yeah, 255 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, you used to be able to put your 256 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: money into government bonds and it was pretty much safe. 257 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: It was the safest place to be. But now I 258 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: think half I think half of the world's bonds are 259 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: negative yielding, and even the even the the US bond 260 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: is is in real rates, it's negative right because it's 261 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: it's not keeping up with inflation, and so it's got 262 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: a negative carry. So you're either guaranteed to lose money 263 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: and hopefully still get it back with a government bond 264 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: or at least not lose money with gold, right, And 265 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: so of course it's going to push people into gold. Um. 266 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: So that's a good point. I think that. And and 267 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: I think really if you understand that point that you made, 268 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: which was done so well, Um, there's really no way 269 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: out of this, right, I mean, the governments are kind 270 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: of stuck now. They have to keep going, right, they 271 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: have to inflate their way out of debt um, you know. 272 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: And and in the modern era, and then talking about 273 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: the modern and e comic economy post World War Two, 274 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: there never really has been a repayment of sovereign debt. 275 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: It's been an inflation out of it, in other words, 276 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: growing the GDP to a sufficient level where debt is 277 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: a small enough percentage of the economy in order to 278 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: sustain it. And that's effectively what they're trying to do 279 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: is just inflate, uh, the GDP to a point where 280 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: the debt becomes a smaller percentage. But right now they're 281 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: just strapping on debt just because underlying economic activity was 282 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: muted pre COVID, but now it's almost non existent. And 283 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: so in order to sustain lifestyles, sustain any sort of economy. 284 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: They're having to spend copious amounts of government expenditures, social 285 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: payments and the light in order to saying some economic activity, 286 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: and that means ever increasing amounts of debt. Yeah. Now, Um, 287 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: one thing that I hear from people when I talk 288 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: about gold, and I see all the comments on the videos, 289 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: and they say, well, I'm not going to buy gold 290 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: now because we're at all time highs. So what would 291 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: you say to that comment, Well, on a nominal basis, 292 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: we're there. On a real basis, we're not even close. Um. 293 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: And so you and I were talking before we recorded 294 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: here about Merrill Lynch's prediction of three thousand dollar gold 295 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: over the next couple of years. They did not pull 296 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: that number out of their hat. Um. Where that number 297 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: came from is if you look at the previous real 298 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: peak in gold, which was eight fifty dollars announce in 299 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: you express that in today's dollars, that's actually three thousand 300 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: dollars announce. Really, that's where that numbers come from. So 301 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: we're not a real all time high stook goal. We're 302 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: still off from that. But you know, yes, we had 303 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: hyper inflation and we were just coming out of an 304 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: hyper inflationary era that people of my age would remember. 305 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: But but you know, we're entering into that and gold 306 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: is a broader of that. But we haven't had the 307 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of unprecedented printing the currency back in the eighties 308 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: that we do now. Um, this, this is this is incredible. 309 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean, Jerome Powell is quoted as saying, we're not 310 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: even thinking about thinking about raising interest rates. Yeah, that's 311 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: that's a striking statement for a central bank governor to 312 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: say he's even abandoned the inflation targets or he doesn't 313 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: talk about them anymore. He talks about employment levels. So 314 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: he's trying to print his printing economy. Um. You know, 315 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: if there's any intangible, underlying economic wealth created from your economy, 316 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: that's unsustainable. If all you're doing is printing, that currency 317 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: is just going to be devalued. Um, we're gonna have 318 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: hyper inflation like the wire our republic had in Germany 319 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: post World War One. That's what we're facing. Um, and 320 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: that goes you know, in that circumstance, gold is going 321 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: to go through the stratos hehere in my view, yeah, 322 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: I know, Um in Europe, you know, in your position, 323 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: you you can take a little more conservative stance for 324 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: myself just being an analyst online. You know, I've talked 325 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: about if you look at after the credit crisis in 326 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: two thousand eight, gold bottomed at about six eighty rally 327 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: do almost two thousand based off of the response right 328 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: of the money printing that happened, as you said, and 329 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: so that moved from six eighty to nineteen whatever, almost 330 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars. If you look at that, If we 331 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: had just that same move, that puts gold at like 332 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: over four thousand dollars and ounce. But the response that 333 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: we've had has been you know, many many times more 334 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: than what they had in two thousands as far as 335 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: the stimulus response. So um, if we had just the 336 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: same size move, we're looking at over four thousand, and 337 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: it could be even more than that. Yeah, and and um. 338 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: In another way to play gold, and I like to 339 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: talk about is solber Um. You know, solber is in 340 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: the twenties right now, but in a bull market typically 341 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: trades at a forty to one ratio of the gold price. 342 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: Well today we're at seventy one. So if you think 343 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: goal is going to three or four thousand dollars announced 344 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: in silver, world performed goal percentage wise by three or 345 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: four times based on pass bole cycles. There's ways to 346 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: play the precious metal market. You know, there's gold directly, 347 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: there's sober uh, and then there's the equities which provide 348 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: if they're managed property outside the leverage to the golden 349 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: silver prices. Yeah. Now we saw we saw recently big 350 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: news where good old uncle Warren Buffett decided to jump 351 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: into gold after he's been saying he hated it for 352 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: so long. Um. I think if you understand why he 353 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: didn't like gold, and then you you know, he didn't 354 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: want to buy something that just sat there and did nothing, 355 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: but he bought a gold mine. It kind of makes sense, 356 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: is that what you saw? What's what's kind of the 357 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: what's the ear to the ground in the gold industry. 358 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: Having to say about that, well, you know, Warren Buffett 359 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: is a value investor, um. And so he's not seen 360 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: value in the general equity markets. The types of valuations 361 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: and multiple as we've seen relative to the underlying economy 362 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: or unprecedented in the general equity markets. So the value 363 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: has been stretched beyond recognition. It's crazy. If they're so 364 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: as a value invest he is probably looking at that 365 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: saying well, I'm gonna stay in cash or stay near 366 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: cash is something that will preserve my capital. Cash is 367 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: being undermined by printing a feeding currency. So he's concerned 368 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: about staying in cash, and he's not getting paid any 369 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: yield for staying in cash. So he's looking at gold 370 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: and and saying, you know what, there's value there. And 371 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: there's certainly value in the gold equities because we're still 372 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: not at sequel cyclical peak for the gold equities that 373 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: we saw ten years ago among the producers were getting 374 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: close to that level, but we think gold still has 375 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: quite a bit of runway to go. And I'd say 376 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: gold equities producers are probably discounting right now somewhere around 377 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: fourteen to dollars and hounds, and the developers are still 378 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: only at about fifty of their cyclical peaks from ten 379 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: years ago. UM. And you know what what's changed from 380 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: ten years ago is gold production was increasing. Ten years ago, 381 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 1: all the producers had things in construct and they were 382 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: growing their production basis out now back then, now you know, 383 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: ten years later, they've depleted their reserves. By guess what, 384 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: if they're not finding it, they're going to have to 385 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: buy it, you're going to have to start to buy 386 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: the developers and explorers who have not participated to the 387 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: same degree they did ten years ago in the gold 388 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: price rally. And so the runway for for valuation expansion 389 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: among developers and explorers as the medicine mind view, and 390 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: that's why I'm involved in that part of the sector 391 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: right now rather than running an established producer, which I've 392 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: done virtually my entire career. And what we see on 393 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: the development stage and the royalty companies and in gold mining, 394 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: we have a collection of fourteen development stage assets which 395 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: collectively have about twenty five million ounces of reserves and 396 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: resources in the ground. You know, there are a lot 397 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: of senior producers that don't have that in terms of 398 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: their reserve portfolio. So this is meaningful. It really will 399 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: meet the need that these producers who are are going 400 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: to have quite acutely in the short term. And so 401 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: I think if you want outside leverage to the goal price, 402 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: I think you want to be in the development stage companies. 403 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: So as a mind builder, I appreciate what these development 404 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: stage companies do, the service they do to the industry 405 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: and filling their pipelines, and that's why I'm involved with 406 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: gold mining, and what we're trying to do with gold 407 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: Royalty is daylight value in this fourteen development stage assets 408 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: by writing royalties on each of them and putting into 409 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: a separate company. And the royalty companies everything almost acted 410 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: as a banker to the mining the mining sector because 411 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: they provided cheap capital to help fund the construction of minds. So, 412 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: in other words, in exchange for a royalty, they provide 413 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: upfront capital to the mining companies to help build their minds. 414 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: And the reason the royalty companies are able to get 415 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: such cheap access to capital is because they're treating typically 416 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: three to four times the multiple that the gold mining 417 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: companies are. Yeah, and the royalty piece of the mining 418 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: sector is definitely an area that not not as many 419 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: people know about as they probably should, and I do 420 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: get asked questions about it. So let's dig into that 421 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: a little bit. So basically, these royalty companies kind of 422 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: put up the seed money to these mining companies and 423 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: in exchange their guaranteed back um the medals at a 424 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: fixed price. Is that right, So they're buying just a 425 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: streaming from it, so they don't have to put up 426 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: any of the risk or the effort, they just get 427 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: a return on their money. That that's precisely right. They 428 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: don't take any capital expenditure risks, they don't take any 429 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: operating costs risks. All they have is a percentage of 430 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: the revenue of the top line that they get back 431 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: in return for the money they put up to help 432 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: build the minds. And so what they also get, which 433 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: is very very important, is exposure to geological upside. So 434 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: if they helped fund the mind that grows geologically, optors 435 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: put put into productions, say through exploration efforts, because quite 436 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: often you don't define the full reserve life when you 437 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: start construction and start operation. As you gain access through 438 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: production deeper and deeper to the mind, you get better 439 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: access for explorations. Really and your your deposits tend to grow. 440 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: So you might have defined a ten or twenty year 441 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: reserve life up front that might grow to thirty or 442 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: fourty or fifty years. Well, the royalthy company retains h 443 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: the exposure to that expiration upside, that optionality that comes 444 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: through the expiration of success of the operator, and that's 445 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: where the royalty companies really make outsize returns. Yeah, they 446 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: get a reasonable return on the percentage of the revenue 447 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: they expect from the reserves that were defined when it 448 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: was first put into production. But when there's expiration success 449 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and the mind life gets extended by decades, that adds 450 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: immeasurably to the return proposition for royalty companies. And so 451 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: you're getting leverage to the goal price. So as the 452 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: goal price goes up, the percentage of revenue doesn't change, 453 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: but the revenue grows, and so that absolute dollar amount 454 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: of royalty goes up as the goal price goes up. 455 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: And as they have expert racial success, you get that 456 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: leverage as well in the royalty company. Without the exposure 457 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: to operating costs risks and capital cost risk, mining companies 458 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: have to manage on a day to day basis. So 459 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: to break that down, the company has to manage all 460 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: those costs and um top line revenues going out to 461 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: the royalty company, and so basically the company has to 462 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: command on the costs and whatever profit is there they get. 463 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: But the royalty company doesn't have to wait for profit. 464 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: They get top line revenue exactly. Okay, So from a 465 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: from an investor standpoint, investing in a royalty company, it 466 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: could be a safer bet because the kind of the 467 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: revenue stream is a little bit more guaranteed. Yeah, and 468 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: plus I think increasingly the mining companies will need the 469 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: royalty companies to help finance, uh, the the reinvestment back 470 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: into new production because I said, gold productions peaked out, 471 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: reserves peaked out seventy years ago, So the mining companies 472 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: are going to have to start building again. They're going 473 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: to have to start buying these development stage assets, and 474 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: they're going to need signif in amounts of capital to 475 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: do so. As I said, the barriers to enter are 476 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: very high in the gold mining space because typically you're 477 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: spending hundreds to billions of dollars to build new minds, 478 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: long lead times, so it's not for the faint apart. 479 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 1: So they need access to non traditional sources of capital 480 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: than just bank financing. And you can't you can't build 481 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: a house with a credit card. You need long term 482 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: secure financing. And so what the royalty companies provide is 483 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: through access to the acuity markets, much higher evaluations, is 484 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: much cheaper capital for these mining companies to build their 485 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: mind zone. Yeah. Now, um, you've mentioned a couple of 486 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: times how the reserve resources have peeked out. And I 487 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: really want to dig into that because I think, um, 488 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, we already talked about the catalyst, the driver 489 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: of gold with negative yielding debt UM and the endless printing. UM. 490 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: So that's one of the drivers. But I think the 491 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: other driver is going to be that reserve peeked out. UM. 492 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: So those two things together, I think really are are powerful. 493 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: But before we dig into that, I kind of want 494 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: to stay back into this royalty So, UM, you are 495 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: you You you spearheaded or were instrumental in one of 496 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: the largest gold mergers in the world. Um, and now 497 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: you're kind of working for a small company. Um. And 498 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: it's a it's a royalty company now. UM. I believe 499 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: that I from you know, from from my investor standpoint, 500 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: I always love to follow the team followed good people. 501 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: So someone like you has had a tremendous track record. 502 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: I want to continue to bet on you. And so 503 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see you go from one of the 504 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: largest mergers in the world now to a smaller company 505 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: that happens to be a royalty company. So tell us 506 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: about that and and why you did that. I guess 507 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: you know what I've done. It Actually my entire career. 508 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: Whether you look at my base metal initiation back in 509 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties running in Mint Mining, which became you know, 510 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: went from a two dollar stock to a hundred dollar stock. 511 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: On the copper side, Achnique Illegal which went from a 512 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: hundred million dollar market cap with two hundred employees to 513 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: UH ten billion dollar market cap with five thousand employees 514 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: and six minds from one mind. Um, I'd like to 515 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: start with something small, uh, take an entrepreneurial vision and 516 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: growth to something substantial. Gold Corps started off is really 517 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: uh the an idea of concept in Ian Telford's minding 518 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: and was my chairman of Gold Corps, and he went 519 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: from zero to ten billion dollars valuation where we ultimately 520 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 1: merged it with with Newmont. So UM, you really have 521 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: to start with a concept and the idea and then 522 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: build it out through M and A. And that's what 523 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: we're trying to do with this score royalty vehicle is 524 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: we're starting with this initial portfolio of fourteen royalties underwritten 525 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: on the fourteen deposits the Goal Mining owns. We're going 526 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: to spin it out into its own public vehicle and 527 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: then use that currency to continue to transact the fund 528 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: New Mind Development to acquire other royalties and create that 529 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: critical mass and continue to lower across the capital so 530 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,719 Speaker 1: we can effectively act as a bank for the mining sector. 531 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: So right now, right now it's just working with gold 532 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: Mining UM, but the plan is to then turn it 533 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: into its own company, where then it's working with a 534 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: to different mining companies. That's exactly right. So while we're 535 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: not a public vehicle now, Goal Royalty, we're a hundred 536 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: percent owned by gold Mining. Gold Mining is a public 537 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: vehicle UM. It trades it under the symbol gold g 538 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: O l D hard to forget on the Toronto Stock 539 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: has change. We also trade on the over the counter 540 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: market UM in New York UM, and so you can 541 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: you can play it that way. And so if you 542 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: buy gold or gold Mining, you're going to get the 543 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 1: royalty vehicle for free as a shareholder. Not that different 544 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: than you know McDonald's and CHIPOTLEI back in the day 545 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: when Chipotle was created within McDonald's. IFBA McDonald's got you 546 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: potle for free and that was spun out to the 547 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: shareholders and McDonald's UM, you know, we're going to look 548 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: at a variety of ways to maximize value for goal 549 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: mining shareholders, whether it's a spin out an I p 550 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: o at dividend back to shareholders. I can assure you 551 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: whatever we do is going to maximize value for gold 552 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: mining shareholders. So if you're buying the stock today, you're 553 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: going to get a value creational opportunity when we create 554 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: this coal royalty vehicle that's going to crude back to 555 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: you as a gold mining shareholder. Yeah, now, UM, I did. 556 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: I did talk briefly about gold Mining UM in a 557 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: video maybe about a month ago. UM, So I did 558 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit, but I haven't talked 559 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: to anybody from the company or the first person. So 560 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: I thank you for for coming on UM, but I 561 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: would like to hear directly from you a little bit 562 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: more about that company, maybe about the minds that you're 563 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: working on UM. Like I said, it's been about a 564 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: month since I did that video, but I remember, I mean, 565 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: it was a it looked like a very significant amount 566 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: of resources that you're sitting on that are ready to 567 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: be developed. That's exaccurate in in the interesting thing. And 568 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: you're at Nanny who's the founder of gold Mining UM, 569 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: and he's the chairman of gold Mine. He brought me 570 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: on to run the gold Royalty vehicle, but also put 571 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: me on the advisory board of Gold Mining. The reason 572 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: he did that is he wanted to leverage my, uh 573 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: my experience and expertise in mind building and the risking projects. 574 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: And so we're gonna be pivoting gold mining to to 575 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: rather than just inventory announces, which they've done very cost 576 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: effect to be the last ten year to actually de 577 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: risking these assets through bringing in through economic studies, feasibility 578 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: studies in order to demonstrate the economics of these deposits 579 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: at two thousand dollars an ounce gold, and it will 580 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: be very, very attractive to the established producers. My expectation 581 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: is we'll start to join venture these projects with the 582 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: established producers in order to put money in the ground, 583 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: de risk these assets and daylight value. Now, just to 584 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: put that into perspective, when a mere bought these deposits, 585 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: these twenty five million ounces across fourteen deposits, he paid 586 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: on average only two to three dollars and ounces because 587 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: he bought them at the bottom of the market, the 588 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: bear market that we experienced and goal until really the 589 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: last year, and right now they're treating it about fifteen 590 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: dollars announced in the ground will typically established development stage 591 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: assets producers treated hundreds of dollars per ound. So you 592 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: can see the potential value proposition here as we de 593 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: risk these assets and create a path forward to developing 594 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: them and turning the them into productive minds. Thereating potential 595 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: is a mess. Uh So the value creation that we 596 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: hope to accrue to our shareholders a cold money, we 597 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: think is significant as we start to attract interesting capital 598 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: from some of the established producers in the sector. Yeah, yeah, 599 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: that's uh that. I remember reading about how he had 600 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: gone around and acquired all these different companies in that 601 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: in that bear market, and I love that. I I 602 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: got my I kind of cut my teeth when I 603 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: was started about eighteen years old. I started buying bank 604 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: owned repos houses and fixing them up and selling them 605 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: and and and that's really kind of been the focus 606 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: of my career, is always looking for that undervalued asset, 607 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: kind of that hated asset that has that potential. And 608 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: so I remember that story, and that's kind of what 609 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: attracted me. And I mean the timing, right, So the 610 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: gold peaked in two thousand and eleven and it's been 611 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: in this bear market, and so he went around scooped 612 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: up these assets really cheap, just in time for the 613 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: market to turn and start going back up. It sounds like, well, 614 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. I mean, you want to be buying 615 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: the farm in the winter if he can, right, And 616 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: that's exactly what a mirror did. Um and you know 617 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: he bought them in gold was twelve dollars twelve and ounced, 618 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: and nobody was building anything. Nobody was focused on that. 619 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: You know again, you know, the gold companies came out 620 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: of a period where their costs had inflated dramatically and 621 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: they were focused on bringing their costs back down, generating 622 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: returns on their capitol and pain dividends, buying backstock, and 623 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: they really spent nothing in the ground of development or exploration. 624 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: And so that's when a mirror was accummitting these assets 625 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: and putting them in inventory. So we're going from inventory 626 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: or warehousing these ounces to incubating them now and and 627 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: creating development stage assets that are attractive to the producers 628 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: that are starved for growth. Right. So I think that 629 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: kind of leads us back to the question that I 630 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: wanted to ask what you had mentioned a couple of 631 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: times before about the reserves being peaked out, and so 632 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: it sounds like to me, so I remember back. I mean, 633 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago. A dozen years ago the 634 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: world was operated hunt the peak energy you know model 635 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: we thought were gonna run out of oil, which was 636 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: proven to be false. But you've talked about resources, gold, 637 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: resources peaking out, and I've heard people even throw out, 638 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, peak gold, which I don't. I don't believe, 639 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: but it seems like to me it was really because 640 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: through that bear market, nobody was investing into exploration or development. 641 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: Is that which one? Is it? That? That's exactly right. 642 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: And literally until four or five months ago, the junior 643 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: explorers couldn't raise a time to save their lives. Um 644 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: when I was writing Gold Corps, I set up an 645 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: incubator fund two h million dollars in order to invest 646 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: in the gold juniors because otherwise they would have they 647 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: would have gone into extinction, which would not observe the 648 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: industry well at all. We need those explorers to be 649 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: successful to replace what we're depleting on a day and 650 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: day out basis. You know, by definition, mining companies are 651 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: collection of finite like assets, and every day they produced 652 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: an ounces of gold, they die a little bit. So 653 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: if somebody's not reinvesting back into the ground to replace 654 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: those depleting resources, and we needed the juniors to do that, 655 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: then then the sector has an existential crisis. Um. And 656 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: so now the juniors are actually getting access to capital 657 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: markets because we're starting to see some general's money come 658 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: in into the space, and so the explorers are getting 659 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: some risk capital again. But again they're still not at 660 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: the level they were ten years ago. There's still about 661 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: half of the valuations that were ten years ago when 662 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 1: we had you know, a raging bowl marker for gold 663 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: postal credit crisis. UM. So there's still a lot of 664 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: runway through these juniors, and and you do need them 665 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: to be successful. Yeah, it looks like when you look 666 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: at you know, I'd asked you that question earlier about 667 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: gold being back to an all time high, but when 668 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: you look at the gold miners, the hum index or 669 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: whatever compared to the price of gold, you know, they 670 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: were pretty caught up in two thousand eleven, but today 671 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: it looks like they're lagging way behind the physical and 672 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: partly because of what you just explained. Yeah, that that 673 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: that's that's it, Because they don't have that growth element anymore, UM, 674 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: and so I think they are discounting somewhere around fourteen 675 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: to fifteen hundred dollars announced in their valuations currently, not 676 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: the nineteen two dollars announced that we're enjoying. And so 677 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: the market is still not quite believing these gold price levels. 678 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,959 Speaker 1: But I don't see this as the peak. I see 679 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: this as the floor. The incentive price to build new 680 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: gold gold mines is likely north of this, otherwise there 681 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: would be new mine construction. There is no significant new 682 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: mine construction going on right now, and so that tells 683 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: you that the current price is not incentivizing, that it 684 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: has to be higher in order syentivize new supply. Now, 685 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: I always talk about you know, I talked about a 686 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: lot of different investing topics and assets, and I always 687 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: I think everything always boils down to supply and demand 688 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, right, everything boils down 689 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: to then you even hinted to the supply of gold 690 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 1: is is pretty limited. And so it seems like if 691 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: there's been this underdevelopment happening for the you know, last 692 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: decade or whatever in gold UM, we have, you know, 693 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: there was the reserves that we have are kind of 694 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: peeked out. Um, then, but now we're having this huge 695 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: demand for goal and so it's going to create this 696 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: kind of mismatch, which then leads the majors to need 697 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: to start acquiring these these miners pretty quickly, as fast 698 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: as they can, which is just going to drive the 699 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: price up. Is that accurate? Yeah? Look, I think that 700 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: will drive evaluations because, as I said earlier on, if 701 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: you're not finding it through experts and success, you're going 702 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: to have to buy it. I mean, the reason Newmartin 703 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: Gold Corps immerged a year and a half ago is 704 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: because both companies were faced with the climbing reserves and 705 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: they were worried about the scaling in the marketplace and 706 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: seeing their multiples a road. Scale does matter, particularly general 707 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: equity investors who are buying Apple and financial institutions, and 708 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: they're looking at you through the same lens as the 709 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: gold companies are looking at technology companies in banks, and 710 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: so if they see declining reserves, declining underlying value, and 711 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: declining liquidity, they're less likely to buy you. So that 712 00:36:53,480 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: scale is extremely important attract that incremental investor. Yeah. Yeah, now, um, 713 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: jumping back into the Gold Royalty Company for a little 714 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: bit just because I'm so fascinated with that. I know, 715 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: I know you and a mirror. I've kind of put 716 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: together a pretty pretty good team. I'm guessing some of 717 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: that team is probably people that you've worked with in 718 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: the past and you've kind of had success with. Absolutely 719 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: and there there are a number of individuals. We attracted 720 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: Ian Telfer, who is my chairman of gold Corps uh 721 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: and founded one of the first streaming companies gold streaming 722 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: companies in the world called silver Wheaton about fifteen years ago. 723 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: It was spun out by Gold Corps. So he is 724 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 1: really the father of gold streaming. He created the entire 725 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: financial model. We've been able to bring him in as 726 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: a chairman of our advisory board and obviously he brings 727 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 1: an incredible network, both in terms of assets we can 728 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: look at people that we can access in order to 729 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: get the opportunities we need to grow at the Gold 730 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: Royalty vehicle. We also brought in Warren Gilman, who runs 731 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: Queen Rhodes Capitol in Hong Kong and manages Le Kai 732 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: Shan's money um and there they've been active investors in 733 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: the gold space and now for a number of years. 734 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: And and Warren as an ex can investment banker has 735 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: been in Asian austral Asia for about twenty years now. Uh, 736 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: doing just that, getting the non traditional investors in Asia 737 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: into the gold space in a meaningful way. UM. And 738 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: beyond that, I brought in John Griffith, who ran for 739 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: a Bank of America mill at lynched their money franchise. Um, 740 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: he's brought into our chief development officers. So he's the 741 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: guy out there looking for merger and acquisition opportunities for 742 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: a gold royalty vehicle. And then within gold mining itself, 743 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: I brought in an ext colleague of mine from Gold Corps, 744 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: Alister still Alistair is an accomplished mind builder. He ran 745 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: minds and he also ran the corporate development function for 746 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: a Canadian business at Gold Corps, and so he brings 747 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: a wealth of a technical and capital markets experience into 748 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: the gold mining vehicle. So really, as I said, we're 749 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,240 Speaker 1: pivoting gold mining from just being a warehouser of gold 750 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: announces to actually incubating these things. Alice has been charged 751 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: to do that, so he understands what it takes to 752 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: the risk these development stage asses to attract the interest 753 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: of outside investors of other producers, to put money into 754 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: the ground to create a da laid value for goal 755 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: mining shareholders. Now you mentioned to de risk these things, 756 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: and so as an investor, Uh, sometimes optimism runs a 757 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: little bit too high, but we always have to manage 758 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: our downside, right, we always have to stay in the game. 759 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, what are the risks that UM that 760 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: you're watching now for that we should be watching now 761 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: for as investors. Well, you know, what we're trying to 762 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: do is to find something geologically through drilling UM, and 763 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: until you mind it, you don't know exactly what you have. 764 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: You can, through geological and statistical means, you can estimate 765 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: what you have in the ground to a fairly high 766 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: degree of confidence, but until you mind it, you don't know. 767 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: So there's always that geological risk, and as mind mature, 768 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: it becomes much less risky. But that point of maturation 769 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: of construction commissioning, that's where the highest risk is and 770 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: the highest capital intensity is, that's where the significant risk is. 771 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: So when I tell about de risking, what we want 772 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: to do is delineate these deposits sufficiently that the geological 773 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: risk is quite low, and we also want to put 774 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: capital into engineering. Uh. The feasibility studies to bring these 775 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: projects into productive minds. And so really Alistair has been 776 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: charged Alistairs still who's brought in as Chief Development Officer 777 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: gold Mining, has been charged and building out the project 778 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: teams to do that d risking to bring this down 779 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: to a sufficient level and to daylight value in the marketplace, 780 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: because as I said, gold Mining's assets are only trading 781 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: at fifteen to twenty dollars announce, so it's already discounted 782 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: a lot of that risk into the valuation. And typically 783 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: assets that this size of trading in the hundreds of 784 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: dollars announced, particularly more political jurisdictions in the Americas where 785 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: all of these assets are exclusively located. So the market 786 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: is not quite believing the story yet. And and Alistair's 787 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: job is to come in and make the market believers 788 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: because these are substantial assets in the market and in 789 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: an industry that's that's starved for these ups of assets. 790 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: So where are you in that process, Like, how how 791 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: far along are you to I guess get more of 792 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: the reserve certified or whatever the process is. Well, the 793 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 1: good thing is it's not all all our eggs in 794 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: one basket. We have fourteen assets within that portfolio and 795 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: gold mining, and so we have really big ones and 796 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 1: we have medium sized ones and small ones. So we're 797 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 1: not hanging our hat hoping that one big producer will 798 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: come in and buy the portfolio. We have assets that 799 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: will appeal to bigger producers, medium sized producers, and small producers. 800 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: And what we'll do is stage gate each of these 801 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: pro these projects to sufficient level that you know it 802 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: will track outside interest from producers of all shapes and sizes. 803 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: And so I think that's the important thing. And some 804 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: of these are on a faster track than others um 805 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: and they're going to get some outside valuate outsized valuations, 806 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: I should say, if they're shorter in terms of the 807 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,359 Speaker 1: timelines to be brought into production. But as it said, 808 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,479 Speaker 1: it's a very very well diversified portfolio. And else there's 809 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: number one job is to come in and sequence things 810 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: in a way the maximize value for goal minding shoulders. 811 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: That's what he's trying to determine right now, is where 812 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,479 Speaker 1: do we best allocate capital to get the best bang 813 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: for a buck within that portfolio fourteen deposits. Yeah, now 814 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: you've mentioned a couple of times that the market is 815 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: value valuing you very low, UM where it should be 816 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: about a hundred I think he said it's five to 817 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: ten dollars or whatever. But as far as like your 818 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: own projections, I mean, do you try to make those 819 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: more conservatives? So let's say like, well, if gold was 820 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: only third and ounces like, we'd still make a lot 821 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: of money, Or if our reserves were only fifty of 822 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: what we think they are, we'd still make a lot 823 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: of money, or how do you look at that? Yeah? Absolutely, 824 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean our our reserves have done at long term 825 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: goal prices a twe and ounce how much? Okay, so 826 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: it's well below where we are today, which is just 827 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: north of nineteen hundred dollars announced. And that's not on 828 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: typical in the sector UM. You know, established producers, the 829 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: more mature companies UM. And we're a mature developer goal 830 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: mining with with a very experienced management team and board. 831 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: We're very very careful and sober about the underlying estimates 832 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: and assumptions we used to calculateur reserves UM and obviously 833 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: that gets adjusted over time gold flies to three or 834 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: four thousand dollars announced. Include the markets looking for us 835 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: to apply a higher cut off when we're doing our reserve, 836 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: but right now we're using one that's wealth self where 837 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: the gold price currently creates now another another risk, UM 838 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: that maybe is there. I get asked this question all 839 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: the time, and uh, I have my own thoughts about it, 840 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: but I want to get chairs and it's it's a 841 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: narrative that's been really pushed by somebody, that's really taken hold. 842 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: And I get asked this question all the time, But 843 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: it's the political risk. It's about being in a country 844 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: without US swap lines. I'm sure you've heard that narrative before. UM, 845 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 1: tell me what you think about that? Well, how much 846 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: are I should say? How much risk is there for that? 847 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: And what do you how do you think about that? Yeah, Look, 848 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: the mining business is inherently risky as it is because 849 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: if it's capital intensity, because the long lead times to 850 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: for action, because of the technical risking your engineering, major construction. UM, 851 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot that can go wrong in the 852 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: money business. You don't want to exasperate risk profile by 853 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: taking on too much political risk in my view, and 854 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,280 Speaker 1: I've never really operated in countries that didn't want US UM. 855 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: In the twelve plus minds that I've I've been involved 856 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: in the construction of they've all been in jurisdictions that 857 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: have an established mining code that welcome for and direct investment, 858 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 1: where you can get your capital in and out of 859 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: the country readily. That's extremely important, and that's how we're 860 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: looking at things is through that lens. Both in gold 861 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: mining and gold oralty. We want to be in jurisdictions 862 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: that welcome mining. So I think that's it's a very 863 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: very important factor because there's a lot of mineral wealth 864 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: in third world countries that are never going to get 865 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: developed because they don't have proper governance in place. You 866 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: can't get your capital out, you know, and you can 867 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: get your capital in, but it's like a roach motel 868 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: you can't get out, and so we want to avoid 869 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: those sorts of situations in my view. So it is 870 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: a real risk, and maybe not so much having to 871 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: have the dollar swap lines, but at least making sure 872 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 1: that you're in a country that's politically friendly and allowed 873 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: to get your capital in and out. That's exactly right, 874 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: got it important? Okay, well man, that is so much 875 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: good information. I appreciate you sharing that. Um. Now, we 876 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: talked about gold royalty corps, and we talked about gold Mining. 877 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: Now you said there's one company, you've listed the ticker symbol. 878 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: So in the description down below, I'm gonna go ahead 879 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: and put the links to the website and the ticker 880 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 1: symbols for everybody. Um, is there anywhere else that people 881 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: should go to, like follow up, let me follow you 882 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: or keep up with the company. Well, if you go 883 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: to gold mining dot com, Um, we have a tab 884 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: in there for gold Royalty. Um, we will be um 885 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: as we spend the company out into its own public vehicle, 886 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: create its own website. But if you want to keep 887 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: up on the developments within both gold Mining and Goal Royalty, 888 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: because until we go public and separate and becoming dependent, 889 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: our our fortunes are inextricably linked. So you'll be up 890 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 1: that website. As I said, if you want to exposure 891 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: to what we're doing, go roy just buy gold Mining stock. 892 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 1: You really get the rocky exposure for free by buying 893 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: the developments teach company and gold Mining. Yeah. Awesome, Well 894 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: it's so much good information, David, and I really just 895 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to me, 896 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,320 Speaker 1: talk to the audience, because uh, we are so interested 897 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: in gold. I've been talking about it a lot. I'm 898 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm calling at the trade of the decade. I just 899 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: don't see any way out of the mess that the 900 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,399 Speaker 1: central banks have gotten themselves into. And there's just one 901 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: way out. It was just printing money and I only 902 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: see gold go in one direction. Um, So that's that's 903 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: my opinion. I appreciate you coming and sharing your your 904 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: information with us. Thanks very much for having me on