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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, it is Thursday, April ninth. Then you

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Speaker 1: might not know his name.

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Speaker 2: Yet, but Rex Hureman might quite possibly go down as

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Speaker 2: one of the most prolific and also one of the

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Speaker 2: most fascinating and even one of the most studied serial

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Speaker 2: killers in US history.

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Speaker 1: With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.

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Speaker 2: A significant chapter has been closed for an area of

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Speaker 2: New York. Frankly that has been terrorized for decades. Finally

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Speaker 2: got an answers, finally got the guy who has killed

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Speaker 2: at least eight women there could be more.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. He is known as the Gilgo Beach

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Speaker 3: serial killer. We now know his name. He is sixty

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Speaker 3: two year old Rex Hureman, and yes, that name does

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Speaker 3: not pop off. But he may now go down, not

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Speaker 3: may he will go down in history along the likes

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Speaker 3: of Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy. These are names we

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Speaker 3: all know that frightened us to our core, and names

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Speaker 3: of monsters who were still trying to understand. And Rex

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Speaker 3: Huerman is in that category. And yesterday, standing in that

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Speaker 3: New York courtroom admitting to killing eight women in front

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Speaker 3: of some of their families. Police who spent year seventeen

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Speaker 3: years trying to get this guy and certainly the community

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Speaker 3: he terrorized, all watching and.

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Speaker 2: Listening because these deaths, these killings took place over a

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Speaker 2: twenty year stretch of time essentially, and Robs the last

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Speaker 2: confirmed at least killing was how long ago.

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Speaker 3: Twenty eleven, I believe, so it was a while ago.

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Speaker 3: And here's part of like, if you're not familiar with

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Speaker 3: the story, for those of us who worked in the area,

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Speaker 3: I remember covering this when I was back at the

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Speaker 3: Today Show all those years ago. Because what would happen

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Speaker 3: is body parts, not even bodies of women would show

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Speaker 3: up up wrapped up in burlap bags along this Ocean

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Speaker 3: Highway near Gilgo Beach, along New York's famed Long Island.

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Speaker 3: A little bit further east. You would be at the Hamptons,

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Speaker 3: just to give people an idea of where this is,

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Speaker 3: and there would be parts of women, body parts that

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Speaker 3: would show up that would be found ten years apart.

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Speaker 3: It was a huge puzzle that police could not put together.

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Speaker 3: They could not figure out who was responsible for these killings.

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Speaker 3: And just the fact that they were getting pieces of

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Speaker 3: women over decades apart to try and figure out who

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Speaker 3: was doing this, and why, and do I have right?

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Speaker 2: We always look for a smoking gun or a big

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Speaker 2: break in the case. It looks like to this one

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Speaker 2: or at least for me robes and you correct me

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. He was arrested in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: twenty three. Right, So he was arrested not because I

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Speaker 2: think roads necessarily because somebody came forward, there was a

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Speaker 2: big piece of evidence. It sounds like the community and

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Speaker 2: the police force recommitted and rededicated themselves to solving these crimes.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened. These cases had gone cold. And look,

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Speaker 3: there are still other bodies that have not been necessarily

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Speaker 3: attributed or connected to him, but they're trying to. They

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Speaker 3: believe there were far more than just eight women killed

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Speaker 3: by Hureman. But yes, he was arrested because a new

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Speaker 3: task force was created in twenty twenty two focused solely

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Speaker 3: on solving this case. And by the way, the first

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Speaker 3: murders happened in nineteen ninety three, so this was a

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Speaker 3: long time coming. And through that renewed effort they were

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Speaker 3: able to pinpoint Hureman and arrest him after they used

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Speaker 3: cell phone data. He was using a lot of burner phones,

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Speaker 3: but they were able to find cell phone data and

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Speaker 3: then they were able to watch him and wait, they

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Speaker 3: got DNA from a pizza crust that he was eating,

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Speaker 3: from bottles of water that he was drinking, and even

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Speaker 3: human hairs. And when they got this DNA without him

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Speaker 3: realized they were doing this, they were able then to

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Speaker 3: connect him to the killings and make the arrest. In

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: They make this arrest robes and we I think we

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Speaker 2: talk about the fascination certainly with serial killers. Over time,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the fascination. We want to know motive, why,

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Speaker 2: what makes this person tick, But a fascination comes. And

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Speaker 2: there have been some robes that are walking among us,

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Speaker 2: walking among us as normal leading lives have careers, even

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Speaker 2: successful careers have families. He was among them for decades.

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Speaker 3: You just described rex Hureman to at and it was

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Speaker 3: so fascinating during or at least after court. We got

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Speaker 3: to hear from the investigators, from police and so many

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Speaker 3: authorities on serial killers, FBI profilers who were talking about

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Speaker 3: rex Hureman. Yes, he was an architect, a successful businessman,

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Speaker 3: he had a daughter, he had an ex wife, and

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Speaker 3: they described these types of criminals. They're rare. But they

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Speaker 3: called Rex Heureman a serial sexual killer, meaning he was

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Speaker 3: sexually aroused by killing women, and so they said he

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Speaker 3: had what I didn't know these terms? Have you heard

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Speaker 3: of pro social life? That's how they describe been said.

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Speaker 2: They've said, there are some that it was fascinating to

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Speaker 2: hear a what someone who studies cyrical and studies mind,

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Speaker 2: I did not. When they describe it, it makes sense,

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Speaker 2: but I haven't heard the term, yeah really before.

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Speaker 3: This got a pro social life serial killer, meaning that

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Speaker 3: these killers have a job, they have a family, they

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Speaker 3: appear to be living their life in the correct moral way,

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Speaker 3: and they're basically because of living this double life, they're

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Speaker 3: able to elude police for that much longer because they

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Speaker 3: don't look like a likely suspect. There is no motive

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Speaker 3: that they could be identified by for killing these women.

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Speaker 3: So yes, they said. This was the direct quote from

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Speaker 3: the DA huremen walked among us play acting as a

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Speaker 3: normal suburban dad when in reality, all along he was

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Speaker 3: obsessively targeting innocent women for death. That is a frightening

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Speaker 3: thing to think about. And we also heard him Huerman

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Speaker 3: himself tell the judge describe to the judge what he

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Speaker 3: did to these women.

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Speaker 2: We talk motive robes as you're just describing. As you

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Speaker 2: just went back and you said, I just need to

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Speaker 2: hear his voice. So as you all are listening to

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Speaker 2: us and hearing about this guy, and you hear about

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Speaker 2: that type of monstrous behavior, what do you are?

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Speaker 1: You fascinated? You want to hear it?

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Speaker 2: He's you know, when you look at him, there's something

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Speaker 2: about his look. I don't know if now having the

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Speaker 2: knowledge of who he is and what he's guilty of,

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Speaker 2: if it adds to it. But you look at the

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Speaker 2: guy and he can be a little frightening and intimidating

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Speaker 2: looking walking down the street, keeping up a job fine

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Speaker 2: in a courtroom, you look and he looks like a

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Speaker 2: scary guy quite frankly, way his hair was done, and

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Speaker 2: the way he was carrying himself, and it might have

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Speaker 2: added to the ominous nature of his appearance. Because you

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Speaker 2: try to juxtapose or you try to put that it

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Speaker 2: does you can't really make it make sense with all

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Speaker 2: the crimes he's accused of. He doesn't. Nobody really fits

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Speaker 2: that or walks out looking like that. But there was

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Speaker 2: something about his look and now his voice, as you said,

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Speaker 2: robes in court and hearing him and then nothing about

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Speaker 2: him animated, nothing worked up, nothing emotional.

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Speaker 1: At what's his.

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Speaker 2: Trading and he's architect He just described robes like it

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Speaker 2: was just another building he was designing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a reporter in the room said a similar thing. Yes, yeah, No,

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Speaker 3: that's so interesting, you said, he said, it was almost

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Speaker 3: like when you're listening to him in court and he's

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Speaker 3: describing these heinous acts and it's almost as if he's

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Speaker 3: in an architectural meeting describe having plans for the next

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Speaker 3: building he was rendering. I mean, that is what and

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Speaker 3: how clinical he sounded. But yes, he told the court

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Speaker 3: that he hired each woman, each victim, as an escort,

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Speaker 3: so these were women in that trade, and then he

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Speaker 3: would strangle them, dismember them, bound them in burlap, and

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Speaker 3: then dump body parts along that ocean front parkway. And that,

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Speaker 3: of course, is what gave this murder, these murders their

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Speaker 3: case name, the Gilgo Beach murders. That's how we refer

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Speaker 3: to them here in the New York area for so long,

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Speaker 3: and it's just it is something to behold, to witness,

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Speaker 3: to see this man who Yeah, I get it. He

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Speaker 3: does look creepy now that we know. But I have

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Speaker 3: to say, if I walked into I don't know, a

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Speaker 3: Walmart and I saw him, I wouldn't necessarily find him threatening.

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Speaker 3: He's a little, i don't know, unusual. Maybe his hair

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Speaker 3: would be the only thing I would speak of. But

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Speaker 3: he kind of just looks like, Yeah, a guy who's

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Speaker 3: a little overweight, who's a little larger than most and

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Speaker 3: you know, a middle management job. That's kind of what

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Speaker 3: he looked like to me.

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Speaker 2: And again, Rose's motive, You've hit on a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Why was he killing these folks? I don't know if

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Speaker 2: a lot of those answers are ever gonna get got.

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Speaker 2: But to whatever the person you were describing the I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure what doctor or whatever that looks into this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I said, this is a rare case. He gets off.

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Speaker 2: Sexually by what he was doing, Robes, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how that happens. I mean, the stuff we are talking about,

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Speaker 2: we're not talking about I just a sexual assault. He

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Speaker 2: is violently chopping yes up and dismembering and going about

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Speaker 2: his day the next day.

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Speaker 3: And the details were horrific. And to think that some

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Speaker 3: of these victims family members were in the court listening

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Speaker 3: to this, and they did try to spare the family

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Speaker 3: members some of this because it is really just heinous.

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Speaker 3: But just to get I was just trying to absorb

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Speaker 3: the fact that he went through all of this and

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Speaker 3: then a leg would be found on a beach, then

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Speaker 3: ten years later, that same woman's skull would be found

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Speaker 3: on a different part of the beach. It was just

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Speaker 3: the lengths that he went to to separate all of

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Speaker 3: these body parts and the work that he put into

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Speaker 3: placing them in different areas. It just it is mind blowing.

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Speaker 3: And so to your point, the why everyone wants to understand, well,

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Speaker 3: no one wants to understand more than the FBI's Behavioral

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Speaker 3: Analysis unit. And this is the unit that was made famous.

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Speaker 3: If you love the Silence of the Lamb like we

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Speaker 3: do the TV show Criminal Minds. That unit has been

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Speaker 3: depicted in Hollywood and on the big screen, in small screens,

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Speaker 3: but it's an actual unit and it played a big

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Speaker 3: role in the reason why prosecutors decided to strike this

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Speaker 3: plead deal and to let Hureman plead guilty to these

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Speaker 3: murders rather than go to trial. When we come back,

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Speaker 3: we're going to tell you what Rex Hureman agreed to

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Speaker 3: do with the FBI as a part of his deal.

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Speaker 3: And welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 3: where we are getting all the details about a serial

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Speaker 3: killer that had been a mystery in the New York

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Speaker 3: area for decades. Solved because Yes. On Wednesday, sixty two

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Speaker 3: year old Rex Humerman, an architect, a father, a former husband,

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Speaker 3: has pleaded guilty to killing at least eight women in

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Speaker 3: the most horrific fashion imaginable. He was a sexual serial killer,

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Speaker 3: and there are a lot of questions about why his motivation.

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Speaker 3: This is a rare type of criminal, thank goodness, according

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Speaker 3: to the FBI. But as a part of his plea deal, Babe,

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Speaker 3: he agreed to be interviewed by the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

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Speaker 3: And you had known about this. I mean, I know

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Speaker 3: that it's a thing, but I guess I didn't realize

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Speaker 3: the thing. Yes, I just thought it was something I

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Speaker 3: saw in entertainment.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying I seriously considered going into the FBI

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Speaker 2: into law enforcement, but the study of what makes serial

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Speaker 2: killers tick to figure that out and to help people

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Speaker 2: solve crimes is something I've always been fascinated by. And

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Speaker 2: we have seen shows in which they just talk to

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Speaker 2: a profile or an FBI profile and say police are

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Speaker 2: desperate and say, okay, we know this, we know this,

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Speaker 2: we know this, we know that, and the profile, having

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Speaker 2: no idea about the case, will say, you're looking for

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Speaker 2: somebody who's in their thirties, who probably still lives with

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Speaker 2: their mom. They probably are driving a car that's like this,

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Speaker 2: and it's probably and they're able to nail it. It's

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Speaker 2: a fascinating study of law enforce. It's a fascinating area

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Speaker 2: of law enforcement. So these guys, he has incredibly useful

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Speaker 2: information that could help Robes now us solve crimes for

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Speaker 2: the rest of all time. It's weird to think this

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Speaker 2: guy and all the horror he's caused is going to

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Speaker 2: be helpful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, as you're saying all of this,

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Speaker 3: I'm just seeing Jodie Foster's character Clarice going to talk

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Speaker 3: to the Anthony Hopkins character to try and help solve

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Speaker 3: another serial murderer. And that is exactly what they are doing. Now.

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Speaker 3: They say that this is not about the investigation, This

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Speaker 3: is about his motivation. This is about trying to understand

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Speaker 3: what made him tick. So they said they're hopefully going

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Speaker 3: to get insight into what created him, like how did

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Speaker 3: he become this monster, what drove him to do this,

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Speaker 3: and what does cause this type of monstrous behavior. And

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Speaker 3: this unit has studied John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Richard

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Speaker 3: Speck just to name a few. But basically any notorious

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Speaker 3: serial killer has pretty much sat down with this unit.

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Speaker 3: And if you ask why would they do that, it's

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Speaker 3: the narcissism. They love to be important. This is part

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Speaker 3: of the I guess the character study that these are

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Speaker 3: the types of individuals who actually like to be center

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Speaker 3: of attention, who want to actually be studied because it

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Speaker 3: makes them feel important, so they can gladly do it.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I want to see in the visitor over. I

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Speaker 1: got nothing going that day? What time? Thursday at three?

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Speaker 3: I think I can fit that into my schedule. But no,

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Speaker 3: And it was really chilling to hear the investigators talk

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Speaker 3: about why this unit is so important, because yes, it is.

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Speaker 3: The intent is to catch the next serial killer. And

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Speaker 3: they said, there are several out there right now. There

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Speaker 3: are some we don't know about, there are some we

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Speaker 3: are looking for, and what we can glean from Humorman

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Speaker 3: absolutely could make the difference. Between breaking the next case

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Speaker 3: and we are on them and they will there will

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Speaker 3: always be, unfortunately, more men like this, and they are

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Speaker 3: typically men in the world. And any information that we

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Speaker 3: can get about what makes these people do what they do,

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Speaker 3: maybe we can save lives with that information.

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Speaker 1: Y is, he's a fascinating case.

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Speaker 2: Ropes he was so he's sixty two now, so while

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Speaker 2: this was all going on, he was what in his third.

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Speaker 3: Thirties, forties, forties, Yes, and an active and present member

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Speaker 3: of the community. I mean, that is what just is

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Speaker 3: so chilling. I think he.

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Speaker 2: Pled guilty to seven he admitted Now, of course he's

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Speaker 2: killed the seven, but he also admitted to an eighth.

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Speaker 2: But it's not a part of a conviction. How much

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Speaker 2: have you read? Tell me if you know what the

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Speaker 2: possibilities are of how many more victims there could be.

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Speaker 3: Police believe there are almost certainly more, because there are

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Speaker 3: plenty of unsolved cases that fit a similar pattern of

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Speaker 3: what we saw with the Gilgo Beach murders. So they're

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Speaker 3: hoping to get that information as well. And look, his sentencing,

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Speaker 3: we should point out, is coming June seventeenth, and you

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Speaker 3: might kind of think, why do you even need that

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Speaker 3: he just admitted to murdering, viciously murdering eight women. Look,

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Speaker 3: he is going to spend the rest of his life

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Speaker 3: behind bars. He is going to get life in prison

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Speaker 3: without parole. But it's important because those families that were

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Speaker 3: sitting in that courtroom on Wednesday will get to speak,

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Speaker 3: They will get to tell their pain, They will get

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Speaker 3: to share the impact of his disgusting behavior with the court,

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Speaker 3: and that's important for closure for so many of these

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Speaker 3: families who didn't think they were ever going to find justice.

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Speaker 3: It was actually such a horrific day but also a

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Speaker 3: beautiful one because these families got closure and these investigators

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Speaker 3: got to say, we got our guide.

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Speaker 1: What was the what was the trial date? Right? Because

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Speaker 1: there was an anticipation.

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Speaker 3: It was coming up. Yeah I don't know, but yes,

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Speaker 3: he was going to trial, and it was going to

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Speaker 3: be really tough for these family members to have to

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Speaker 3: go through this and live through this. So this was

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Speaker 3: a big deal to get the plea deal in place

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Speaker 3: and now to be able to study him going forward.

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Speaker 3: But we will have he will have one more day

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Speaker 3: in court where we will hear from the victims and

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Speaker 3: he'll be able to say what he wants to as well.

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Speaker 3: Both sides can present their cases the judge.

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Speaker 2: That's their day in court. All these times and all

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Speaker 2: this legal wrangling going up, they are finally getting their

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Speaker 2: day roades. We have watched victim impact statements. These are

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Speaker 2: very difficult days to watch in court, and judges give

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Speaker 2: all congrant all kinds of leeway to families. So Robes,

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Speaker 2: this is one I'm expecting to be just gutting to

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Speaker 2: listen to. It's the anger that you're going to hear,

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Speaker 2: the pain you're going to hear, and talking to him

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Speaker 2: and Robes, they get to look at him directly in

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Speaker 2: the face and say what they want to say. From

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Speaker 2: what we've seen of him so far, what do you

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Speaker 2: expect from him?

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Speaker 3: Zero emotional reaction, And they say that's actually part of

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Speaker 3: how he does what he does. He doesn't have He's

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Speaker 3: a psychopath, is what sociopaths, psychopath, all these labels placed

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Speaker 3: on him, But he doesn't feel guilt, he doesn't feel remorse.

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Speaker 3: No one who did could do what he did to

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Speaker 3: these women. I also think it's important to say this.

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Speaker 3: I remember when I was covering this, I don't even

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Speaker 3: know all those years ago. One of the big issues

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Speaker 3: with these case. With this case was these women and

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Speaker 3: what they did and how they were diminished and minimized

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Speaker 3: because they were considered sex workers or prostitutes or what escorts,

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Speaker 3: you can call them what they were.

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Speaker 2: But these priorities. Frankly, these are lives that don't matter

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Speaker 2: as much as some others. Right if they had the

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Speaker 2: right motivation. What if some suburban mom who looked a

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Speaker 2: little differently with a little two kids and driving the

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Speaker 2: right car and had done could he have been stopped sooner?

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Speaker 2: Did he probably long enough to even pick the right

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Speaker 2: victims to know? Ah, these people aren't going to be

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Speaker 2: worth anything that is interesting to hear, right, it's these

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Speaker 2: are these.

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Speaker 1: You know what?

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Speaker 2: This is all you need to know about these women.

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Speaker 2: Thirty years later, their families are showing up in court.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, And that's my point. They were young women, they said, Look,

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Speaker 3: you can label them however you want. Some of these

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Speaker 3: women were trying to pay bills for school to further

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Speaker 3: their education. Some of these women were trying to put

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Speaker 3: food in their children's mouths.

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Speaker 1: Don't care.

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Speaker 3: These were young mothers, many of them. But these were

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Speaker 3: women like from twenty years old to thirty. These were

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Speaker 3: young women who had futures ahead of them, who were

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Speaker 3: trying to get by, And it doesn't mean that their

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Speaker 3: lives were any less valuable. But you know, and we

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Speaker 3: know how society treats hate when they do that.

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Speaker 2: They start saying they were sex workers, but they would

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah, they were sex workers. But like trying

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Speaker 2: to justify why I should care about this human being.

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Speaker 2: I don't give a damn what she did for a living.

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Speaker 2: This dude butchered eight people. You don't have to explain

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Speaker 2: to me why I should care. These are humans. This

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Speaker 2: is something we do all the time in this country.

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Speaker 2: What you look like, how kinky your hair is, how

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Speaker 2: dark your skin is, what neighborhood you're from, and then

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Speaker 2: will determine what kind of value your life has.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I hate that conversation. I hate I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 2: the lawyer who was out there trying to I get

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Speaker 2: where that comes from, robes, But you almost lessen the

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Speaker 2: value of their life when you're trying.

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Speaker 1: To justify the value of their life.

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Speaker 2: If you're trying to explain to me why I should care,

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Speaker 2: then both of us have a problem.

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Speaker 1: She's a human being and.

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Speaker 3: She's dead, and she didn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: End of story.

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Speaker 2: Don't need to hear what she did for anything else.

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Speaker 2: And we don't do that enough in this in this country,

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Speaker 2: with the stories and with media.

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Speaker 1: But you make that point.

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Speaker 2: I actually got pissed in hearing because you're right, they

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Speaker 2: were explaining, no, these women were this, and they were

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Speaker 2: that now, they were women.

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Speaker 3: Who didn't deserve to die.

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Speaker 1: How are human beings?

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Speaker 3: And so I think that is why this June seventeenth,

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Speaker 3: no on no, but iota, I get that. I feel

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Speaker 3: that same way, and I think that's why June seventeenth,

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Speaker 3: this victim Impact statement, this opportunity for these families to

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Speaker 3: try and finally get their say. It's all the more

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Speaker 3: sweet because they haven't necessarily gotten the same regard and

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Speaker 3: haven't been valued in the same way. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's why sentencing day will be incredibly powerful. We will

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Speaker 3: of course follow that for you, but just wanted to

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Speaker 3: get you updated on this really power orful moment in

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Speaker 3: court in New York that happened on Wednesday. But thank

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Speaker 3: you all so much for listening to us. As always,

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Speaker 3: I'm Amy Roebuck alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to

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Speaker 3: you soon