Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hello, I think people probably know the drill. We're
Speaker 2: going to revisiting an old, an old episode, and we're
Speaker 2: going to have an update.
Speaker 1: That's not good broadcasting. You don't say to people they
Speaker 1: know the drill. You tell them the drill. You guys
Speaker 1: your powers as a storytelling.
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, here's the drill.
Speaker 1: And drills are exciting. Think of a fire drill when
Speaker 1: you were in elementary school.
Speaker 2: How great was that you're getting out of class.
Speaker 1: Especially if you were in gym, like you ran outside
Speaker 1: in the winter, snow and your shirt. It was great. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: here's the drill.
Speaker 2: Today, we're going to listen to an episode called the Sky.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: It's a classic episode.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: We get a lot of pitches about being cut out
Speaker 2: of friend groups, about being bullied in some way. I
Speaker 2: think it's unfortunately, like a pretty common story that a
Speaker 2: lot of people can relate to. But what we really
Speaker 2: liked about Sky's story is that we really liked that
Speaker 2: it involved her son and that she was doing it
Speaker 2: at the encouragement of her son.
Speaker 1: And now that same son from the story, get this.
Speaker 1: This is a bit of a spoiler alert. He's now
Speaker 1: an adult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a young adult.
Speaker 1: That's what time will do to you. Yeah, make a
Speaker 1: little kid, a young man, make an old man like me,
Speaker 1: and even older man. Yeah sad.
Speaker 2: Really you remember the Joey episode?
Speaker 1: I do, of course.
Speaker 2: Do you remember how you did Sky and Joey on
Speaker 2: the same trip.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: You did just like a week of knocking out people's problems.
Speaker 1: So productive, so helpful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I should have a private jet and on the side
Speaker 1: it would say mister Helpful.
Speaker 2: And when you took off, people would clap like Superman
Speaker 2: and they'd say thank you, mister helpful.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a room in the Marvel universe
Speaker 1: for a mister helpful?
Speaker 2: It's not the catchiest name.
Speaker 1: The power of helping people.
Speaker 2: Well, sit back, enjoy. And then we're going to hear
Speaker 2: from Sky at the end.
Speaker 1: Oh, but first, a word from our sponsors high podcast friends.
Speaker 1: As regular listeners know, I try to run a family
Speaker 1: friendlish podcast. But because it's integral to the plot. In
Speaker 1: this episode of Heavyweight, we drop the F bomb and
Speaker 1: unprecedented nine times. If they were giving out peabodies for swearing,
Speaker 1: maybe I'd get one. Also, as long as I'm giving advisories,
Speaker 1: I also pronounced the word garage as garage, I encourage
Speaker 1: you to listen anyway. Hello, did you get a message
Speaker 1: from me a couple months ago? A phone message was
Speaker 1: on your birthday. I was wishing you a happy birthday.
Speaker 5: It's possible I didn't.
Speaker 1: Hear anything back, so I was concer When someone leaves
Speaker 1: your message on your birthday, you have no obligation to
Speaker 1: return that message. But that's it. Oh my god, it
Speaker 1: would have been nice to get. I'm not saying a
Speaker 1: thank you card, but you know, if I.
Speaker 4: Was under non obligation, why are you now giving me
Speaker 4: suggestions as to how I should have responded.
Speaker 1: Some things in life aren't obligatory, but we just do them,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, like picking up the phone when I just saw that,
Speaker 4: you call.
Speaker 1: Me exactly like, Hey, wait a minute from Gimblet Media.
Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, sky
Speaker 1: Sky and her son Clark ever ritual every night. After
Speaker 1: his teeth are brushed and he's all tucked in, right
Speaker 1: before Clark goes to sleep, Sky sits down on the
Speaker 1: edge of his bed and they talk.
Speaker 4: What was your favorite part of that movie?
Speaker 6: Probably like the end was.
Speaker 4: A good helicopter.
Speaker 1: Clark's eleven, so naturally there's a lot of discussion about
Speaker 1: comic books and movies.
Speaker 4: I don't think it was a movie, you know, the
Speaker 4: original Jumanji was not funny.
Speaker 1: But there's something about the stillness of nighttime that also
Speaker 1: frees Clark up to speak in a way that he
Speaker 1: doesn't normally. Not only does he tell Sky about what
Speaker 1: he's watching and reading, he tells her about his feelings.
Speaker 1: He shares stories about what's going on at school, and
Speaker 1: Sky shares stories too, stories from her childhood. Some stories
Speaker 1: she tells just to entertain Clark, but other stories she
Speaker 1: tells to impart a lesson. There's one story in particular
Speaker 1: she's told Clark over and over again throughout the years.
Speaker 1: It's been coming up a lot. Recently, Sky told me
Speaker 1: the story.
Speaker 4: So the story, in a way, the story starts when
Speaker 4: I moved.
Speaker 1: When she was eleven years old, Sky was best friends
Speaker 1: with a group of four girls girl They wore a
Speaker 1: spree sweatshirts and watched Love Boat on the weekends. They
Speaker 1: were the popular girls.
Speaker 4: That was sort of the vibe of that group was
Speaker 4: like we're exclusive and we're kind of the shit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, how like in high school they have you know,
Speaker 4: most beautiful and most popular, and all of those. We
Speaker 4: decided to make our own book of you know, awarding
Speaker 4: people various prizes. We gave me best eyes, and I
Speaker 4: remember sort of having this pride in.
Speaker 1: That they spent all the fifth grade together. Then summer
Speaker 1: came and with it long days filled with lazy bike
Speaker 1: rides and trips to the candy shop. But early one
Speaker 1: summer morning, Sky I woke up to find her yard
Speaker 1: had been tepeed, covered in toilet paper, and there was more.
Speaker 4: Someone had written fuck you on our garage door. And
Speaker 4: we had a double garage, and so fuck was on
Speaker 4: one and you was on the other, and they were
Speaker 4: written in large white letters on our brown garage.
Speaker 1: Sky's mom had seen the vandals make their getaway. The
Speaker 1: words fuck you had been written by none other than
Speaker 1: Sky's for best friends.
Speaker 4: And they had been written in paint. I wish they
Speaker 4: had done it was something that had come off, because
Speaker 4: I do remember this feeling of like being driven home
Speaker 4: day after day and seeing those words on the garage door.
Speaker 4: Teeping someone's house is one thing. It's sort of a
Speaker 4: common prank, but the fact that they wrote fuck you
Speaker 4: that felt to me like it really came from anger.
Speaker 4: And they had to have brought the paint, you know,
Speaker 4: there had to have been some thought put into this.
Speaker 1: Why had they done it? What were they angry about?
Speaker 1: Sky had no idea. Did you ever see those girls again?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 4: I saw them again for sure. We all funneled into
Speaker 4: this junior high school that fall, and I think that
Speaker 4: I just avoided them. I never ever said a word
Speaker 4: to any of the four girls ever. Again, I pretended
Speaker 4: it never happened.
Speaker 1: And when Sky tells Clark this story, here's where she
Speaker 1: delivers the moral. Awful things do happen, but in the
Speaker 1: end everything turns out fine. Sky grew up, got married,
Speaker 1: has a job she likes, and a family she loves.
Speaker 1: Her story, she tells him, has a happy ending. In
Speaker 1: the past. When he's heard the story, Clark's taken his
Speaker 1: mom's lesson at face value. But Clark is now the
Speaker 1: same age Sky was when her friends turned on her.
Speaker 1: He's starting to see his own classmates leave old friends
Speaker 1: behind for the more popular crowd. For the first time,
Speaker 1: he's able to imagine what it would be like if
Speaker 1: his own small group of friends suddenly cast him out,
Speaker 1: stopped coming over to his house to play video games,
Speaker 1: stop speaking to them altogether. So Sky's moral that everyone
Speaker 1: lives happily ever after is starting to feel untrue, and
Speaker 1: so Clark has a question for his mother, why didn't
Speaker 1: she ever confront her friends about what they did? Why
Speaker 1: not then? But also he asks Sky why not now?
Speaker 3: Like did they do it for themselves or because of you?
Speaker 3: Or was it because of something you did or something.
Speaker 1: Clark brings up Sky's story during their bedtime ritual, looking
Speaker 1: for details, weighing the injustice, fantasizing about Sky looking up
Speaker 1: her old friends and confronting them with some questions.
Speaker 4: I think you.
Speaker 3: Can't be like the person that you normally are, where
Speaker 3: you're like timid little mommy, funny City.
Speaker 4: That you think of me as timid mommy, that's very interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I have like a lot of occasions to
Speaker 3: prove that your New Year's resolution was to say no
Speaker 3: more often. That was your resolution because you were too
Speaker 3: timid to say no to people before that.
Speaker 4: Well, I like to think that it's less about me
Speaker 4: being timid and more about me being a canned do
Speaker 4: kind of person. There it is right there.
Speaker 1: At school functions, Clark watches his mom try to accommodate
Speaker 1: the other parents and get steamrolled in the process. In restaurants,
Speaker 1: he sees his mom settled for the wrong meal rather
Speaker 1: than bother the waiter. For once, he wants Guy to
Speaker 1: stop worrying about everyone else's feelings. He wants her to
Speaker 1: focus on herself.
Speaker 4: I would really love to know, like why it's important
Speaker 4: to you.
Speaker 5: It's basically for.
Speaker 3: Me more like my mom avenging. Those people just wanted
Speaker 3: you to kind of like get your avenge, my revenge,
Speaker 3: avenge yourself. Sorry I'm using the wrong word. You got
Speaker 3: to be like you did this, and do you remember
Speaker 3: why it happened and say sorry to me?
Speaker 4: He said at the end, Mom, you've got to figure
Speaker 4: this out. You've got to go for it. You have
Speaker 4: to have a chance to find out why this happened.
Speaker 1: It's not just Clark who feels this way. There's someone
Speaker 1: else who also wonders why this happened. And it's always
Speaker 1: Sky had had the chance to ask, Hello, is this Rachel?
Speaker 1: This is Sky's mom. Rachel the only eyewitnessed what happened
Speaker 1: that night, and the person talking to her while chewing
Speaker 1: a hunk of munster cheese and hollow bread because his boss,
Speaker 1: Alex thinks taking lunch breaks is more of a BizOps thing,
Speaker 1: is me.
Speaker 8: I got out of my chair and I stood at
Speaker 8: the window and pulled back the drape, and I see
Speaker 8: their bikes sort of going off into the night.
Speaker 1: The night the girl showed up, around two or three
Speaker 1: in the morning, Rachel was reading in an armchair by
Speaker 1: the window. She's always up in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: It's a habit that began in childhood. She tells me
Speaker 1: that her own mom, Sky's grandmother suffered from schizophrenia. She
Speaker 1: was unpredictable. In the middle of the night was the
Speaker 1: only time the house was ever quiet and safe. Who
Speaker 1: was during those calm nights alone that Rachel began writing poetry.
Speaker 4: And here I.
Speaker 8: Am, all these years later, and I'm still doing it.
Speaker 8: There's something holy about the middle of the night. Nobody's
Speaker 8: hassling you, and you can really hear yourself somehow.
Speaker 1: But on the night the vandals struck, she could also
Speaker 1: hear four eleven year old girls making their getaway. When
Speaker 1: the sun came up, Rachel saw the fuck you on
Speaker 1: the garage, and immediately she phoned up one of the
Speaker 1: girls and spoke with both her and her mom well
Speaker 1: neither denied what had happened. Nothing much came of the conversation,
Speaker 1: and after that Sky begged Rachel not to make any
Speaker 1: more phone calls. The idea of confronting anyone just upset
Speaker 1: Sky Moore. So Rachel stopped calling, and after a few
Speaker 1: days things seemed to go back to normal.
Speaker 8: We felt it was over, and for her it really wasn't.
Speaker 8: It really took her being i mean grown up, for
Speaker 8: her to start saying to me, I think about this
Speaker 8: all the time, and it was shocking to me. I
Speaker 8: had not understood that, and I felt dopey that I
Speaker 8: hadn't understood that because I thought I was pretty well
Speaker 8: attuned to her and her feelings. It broke my heart.
Speaker 8: She always understood how to sit in with people, completely
Speaker 8: unlike her parents. My husband, you know, was born in
Speaker 8: Finland and was a mathematician and had his PhD when
Speaker 8: he was nineteen. And I was this strange high school
Speaker 8: dropout poet. I mean, we were really odd and eccentric birds,
Speaker 8: and here was this kid who was just exquisitely normal,
Speaker 8: and to us, she's always been a wonder, you know, like,
Speaker 8: who is this very social being, this is a kid
Speaker 8: who whose first word was high, and who, when she
Speaker 8: was small, literally sat on the front step all day
Speaker 8: and said hi to every person who passed on the sidewalk,
Speaker 8: and we loved her for that. And what happened with
Speaker 8: the girls. This had the effect of making her more
Speaker 8: you know, pulling in her wings.
Speaker 1: And this is the person Clark sees today, someone who
Speaker 1: keeps her wings tucked in so tight for fear of
Speaker 1: them getting in anyone's way, and she's forgotten how to
Speaker 1: open them. Rachel knows that Clark has recently begun urging
Speaker 1: his mom to be less timid, and she approves there's.
Speaker 8: Something authoritative about a child they haven't had. They're not
Speaker 8: all hammered by doubts and worries about what they're saying.
Speaker 8: They're like, well, why didn't you do this?
Speaker 1: You know, Rachel had asked me to call at the
Speaker 1: end of her work night. It's now seven thirty AM,
Speaker 1: close to her bedtime, so we say, oh goodbyes, But
Speaker 1: just before putting down the phone, she offers a final benediction.
Speaker 8: I thought was so beautiful the way he wanted her
Speaker 8: to figure this out. Because she'll hear that from him
Speaker 8: in a way that she probably could never hear that
Speaker 8: from me, it has more of a chance to wake
Speaker 8: her up.
Speaker 1: And with that, Rachel heads off to bed, and I
Speaker 1: turned back to Sky, who, with a little help from Clark,
Speaker 1: is still trying to wake up.
Speaker 4: He does have this sense of but that's an unfinished thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the good that this good ending hasn't fully
Speaker 1: happened yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the good ending hasn't happened. Now. It's sort
Speaker 4: of turning into a different story, which is that it's
Speaker 4: kind of never too late to summon courage and do
Speaker 4: something that that scares you. I guess in a way,
Speaker 4: I want to live up to his to who I
Speaker 4: think he'd like me to be, you know, I think
Speaker 4: like I need to show him that I can stand
Speaker 4: up for myself.
Speaker 1: Thirty five years later, and Sky's finally decided she's ready.
Speaker 1: She just needs help reaching the girls and not backing
Speaker 1: down when she does. So, you want to do this?
Speaker 4: I think that I want to do this. Yes, I
Speaker 4: want to do this. You know. Now I'll be able
Speaker 4: to say I did what I could.
Speaker 1: And if you want to be able to say you
Speaker 1: did what you could to save scads of cash with
Speaker 1: some truly great deals. Here's the chance you've been dreaming
Speaker 1: of your entire life. Sky and I get to work
Speaker 1: reaching out to the four girls, Sam, Nicky, Randy, and Tessa.
Speaker 1: We begin with Sam because Sky already has their contact info.
Speaker 1: They'd run into each other at their ten year high
Speaker 1: school reunion. Sky Sam had said, it's me been the
Speaker 1: perfect opportunity to ask about the fuck you on the
Speaker 1: garage door, but Sky just couldn't bring herself to mention it,
Speaker 1: so instead they made awkward small.
Speaker 4: Talk, and then she fronted me on Facebook, which practically
Speaker 4: made me laugh. But I this sounds ridiculous, but I
Speaker 4: didn't want to be rude, and so I accepted her friendship.
Speaker 1: I helped Sky write a Facebook message to Sam saying
Speaker 1: she has some questions about the end of their friendship,
Speaker 1: but with no response, Sky follows up again and again.
Speaker 1: Eventually Sam writes back, we just naturally grew apart as
Speaker 1: life events progressed, she says. She concludes by saying that
Speaker 1: Sky's attempts to contact her are making her feel quote
Speaker 1: overwhelmed and stressed, and that makes Sky feel bad. Second
Speaker 1: is Nicky, who says that even those guy's mom clearly
Speaker 1: remembers her being there that day, She absolutely wasn't. In fact,
Speaker 1: she says she and Sky weren't even that close. Third
Speaker 1: comes Randy. Randy's hard to get a hold of, so
Speaker 1: when we get no answer on her house phone, we
Speaker 1: try all the numbers we can find. We leave her
Speaker 1: repeated messages, but it seems like she's not even getting them.
Speaker 1: But as it turns out, she's gotten all of them,
Speaker 1: because she sends Sky an email to say that she's
Speaker 1: not happy about it. In fact, she's creeped out. Sky
Speaker 1: was at the grocery store when she received the email.
Speaker 4: I was in line and I completely was out of
Speaker 4: my body as I was reading it. I so forgot
Speaker 4: where I was that someone had to say, are you
Speaker 4: in line? And I was like, uh no, I'm not.
Speaker 4: And I had to like push my cart away from
Speaker 4: the checkout stand because I could not focus.
Speaker 1: Sky went into damage control mode, writing back to Randy
Speaker 1: to say how deeply sorry she was. I asked her
Speaker 1: to read me what she'd send.
Speaker 4: Randy. I'm so grateful that you wrote me back. It
Speaker 4: makes me cringe to think about how semi creepy and
Speaker 4: weird it must have seemed to get those messages. I'm
Speaker 4: kicking myself for letting that happen. I'm still hoping to
Speaker 4: talk to you privately and just explain myself. Would that
Speaker 4: be okay?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, is there a kind of like do
Speaker 1: you feel like your default is to sort of apologize
Speaker 1: for having reached out?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I do.
Speaker 4: That has occurred to me.
Speaker 1: Later, Sky shares the email with Clark, and it seems
Speaker 1: like it's occurred to him as well.
Speaker 3: I think you were over apologetic if you yourself was
Speaker 3: the kind of character was like, oh sorry, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't.
Speaker 9: Have done that.
Speaker 1: That automatically makes her basically.
Speaker 4: Like gives her power.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it puts her in a better spot than you're in,
Speaker 6: and that's bad.
Speaker 1: At Sky's insistence, Randy finally agrees to a phone call,
Speaker 1: but in the end, all she tells Sky is that
Speaker 1: she doesn't remember that night, doesn't remember any toilet paper
Speaker 1: or gras door, She doesn't remember anything at all. Of
Speaker 1: the four friends, only one remains, Tessa, the girl Sky's
Speaker 1: mom phoned directly after the incident. Over the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, I speak with Tessa several times. She can't
Speaker 1: decide if she wants to talk with Sky for one thing,
Speaker 1: she says it was so long ago that she doesn't
Speaker 1: remember much, to which I rejoin that she's all we've got.
Speaker 1: For another, she adds getting contact like this through a
Speaker 1: third party interlocutionary international podcasting host is pretty weird, to
Speaker 1: which I admit that it is slightly unconventional. Finally, Tessa
Speaker 1: says she doesn't want to inadvertently drag the other girl's
Speaker 1: names through the dirt for something they did as kids,
Speaker 1: to which I say, well, let's change those names and
Speaker 1: draw some pseudonyms through the dirt. And once I agree
Speaker 1: to change the names of the four girls, Tessa, not
Speaker 1: her real name, agrees to sit down with Sky, still
Speaker 1: her real name, so she can finally have a conversation
Speaker 1: about the night in question. Both Sky and Tessa live
Speaker 1: in California, pretty close to where they grew up. I
Speaker 1: figure my presence at their meeting could be calming, helpful.
Speaker 1: Even All Sky has to do is invite me out
Speaker 1: there to join her. I like California, I know, I
Speaker 1: love it, but because of her cursed timidity, Sky just
Speaker 1: doesn't have have the lima beans to ask, so I
Speaker 1: continue to offer her prompt. I haven't been there in
Speaker 1: some time.
Speaker 4: Well, it's a lovely state.
Speaker 1: After several minutes of this elaborate dance, I get to
Speaker 1: the point for both our sakes, So does do you
Speaker 1: think that you think I should come?
Speaker 4: That would be amazing?
Speaker 1: And so it's off to California A for some long
Speaker 1: overdue Q and A Hi. Good, how aut you guys?
Speaker 8: Hi?
Speaker 1: Clark, nice to meet you. Sky picks me up at
Speaker 1: the hotel. Clark's along too, to make sure his mom
Speaker 1: doesn't lose their nerve.
Speaker 4: Park you can continue to navigate for me.
Speaker 1: Clark sits in the passenger seat, leafing through a comic book.
Speaker 1: All right, let me I'm just going to throw this
Speaker 1: in here if that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 10: And then.
Speaker 1: Tossed my bag into the back of the hatchback and
Speaker 1: we head off to meet Tessa. It felt great to
Speaker 1: be in San Francisco. It's just like the Mamas and
Speaker 1: the Papa saying, if one is going to San Francisco,
Speaker 1: one should wear flowers in one's hair. As we speed
Speaker 1: down the highway, I close my eyes, lean back and
Speaker 1: would that I had hair enjoy the wind blowing through it.
Speaker 4: Wait, is the trunk open?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Wow, it seems that in my excitement to hit the
Speaker 1: streets of San fran I'd left the hatchback door open,
Speaker 1: which it turns out is the source of the San
Speaker 1: Franciscan breeze. She whizz, I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 6: God.
Speaker 1: Sky finds a place on the shoulder of the highway
Speaker 1: to pull over, oh Man, and shuts the trunk door,
Speaker 1: and with that we were back on our way. That's
Speaker 1: why they call me mister excitement. Actually, no one calls
Speaker 1: me mister excitement. San Francisco is pretty.
Speaker 4: We're not in San Francisco, you know that, right?
Speaker 5: I mean?
Speaker 1: As we drive to meet Tessa, I ask Sky how
Speaker 1: she's doing.
Speaker 4: I feel nervous sighted, which is a word that I am.
Speaker 1: When when have you used the word nervous sided, Clark.
Speaker 3: Like before, like baseball games and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: I kind of feel nervecited.
Speaker 1: Nervous sighted is a portmanteau word, like the way say romance,
Speaker 1: a word denoting an incestuous relationship between brothers is or chillax,
Speaker 1: the act of chilling out with a bar of family
Speaker 1: sized x lax.
Speaker 4: How do you feel about meeting Do you want to
Speaker 4: meet her? Or will resist temptations to pundry over what
Speaker 4: she did.
Speaker 1: Clark is eleven years old. In the comic books he reads,
Speaker 1: that's how problems are solved with punches, kung fu chops.
Speaker 1: Writing the scales is a simpler business. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to hear stories about his mom being stepped on. It's
Speaker 1: another to be in the same room with one of
Speaker 1: the people who did the stepping. Sky tries to tamp
Speaker 1: down his need for revenge.
Speaker 4: Well, as we were talking about last night, before you
Speaker 4: went to slay, you won't forgivenoriveness. Forgiveness. We need to
Speaker 4: find the forgiveness.
Speaker 1: I wanted a quiet place for Sky and Tessa to talk,
Speaker 1: and it turned out that on the weekends, the local
Speaker 1: university had an unoccupied studio.
Speaker 4: I think we're basically here.
Speaker 1: We pull into the empty campus parking lot.
Speaker 4: Clark, you want to look and make sure I'm within
Speaker 4: the lines?
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lins, Okay, let's get set up. So this
Speaker 1: is where Clark and I, well, we'll sit. The studio
Speaker 1: is only big enough for Sky and Tessa, So Clark
Speaker 1: and I sit in the control booth where we'll be
Speaker 1: able to eavesdrop on the conversation. There's a mic. So
Speaker 1: should the need arise, Clark and offer guidance that only
Speaker 1: Sky can hear through her headphones.
Speaker 4: I'm mom, Hi Clark.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you turn it on.
Speaker 4: It's good to hear your voice.
Speaker 11: Can you hear me?
Speaker 1: Sky? Sandy the studio technician helped let's get set up
Speaker 1: and takes a level on Sky's voice by asking her
Speaker 1: an easy, neutral question.
Speaker 11: Tell me how's the right in today?
Speaker 4: How is the right in?
Speaker 8: You don't have to shout into it.
Speaker 4: It was easy, except for when we left the hatchback
Speaker 4: open on the freeway.
Speaker 1: Laugh it up, Sandy the studio technician, Laugh it up.
Speaker 1: Tessa's running late, so Sky sits waiting in the studio
Speaker 1: by yourself. Finally, wait, she's here.
Speaker 5: Ah, okay, okay, Hey.
Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan. Made it nice to meet you too. Tessa,
Speaker 1: stylish and like Sky, looks younger than her years. You
Speaker 1: could still see a trace of the popular girl. I
Speaker 1: show her into the studio where Sky's been waiting. The
Speaker 1: two haven't seen each other since they were children.
Speaker 4: Who do you do you keep in close touch with?
Speaker 4: Anywhere in high school?
Speaker 11: Anyone?
Speaker 1: As they settle in, the mood is formal, a little stilted,
Speaker 1: since the room is only about the size of a
Speaker 1: small elevator, their knees practically touch you.
Speaker 4: Guys can start now, okay, thanks Clark. Clark says, we
Speaker 4: can start.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: So, so I'm just gonna go backtrack a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So my memory is that we were all in sort
Speaker 4: of a tight knit group. You know, is it doingly
Speaker 4: for me to ask like or this discussion? Why didn't
Speaker 4: you do it? Yes, of a good instrum for both
Speaker 4: of us, But then had also written fuck you on
Speaker 4: the garage door, and that then from that point on,
Speaker 4: we never spoke again. And it's something that has always
Speaker 4: stuck with me because I don't know why it happened.
Speaker 4: And so I guess I'd love to know what your
Speaker 4: memories are.
Speaker 1: Clark's got this look on his face, love to know
Speaker 1: what your memories are. From his perspective, his mom's doing
Speaker 1: what she always does. That is exactly what he told
Speaker 1: her not to. She's being overly sensitive to Tessa's feelings.
Speaker 1: But even after thirty five years of waiting to ask
Speaker 1: the question, Sky just can't help being Sky. Tessa takes
Speaker 1: a sip of water.
Speaker 9: Sorry, I'm just my throat is struck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem, Sky smiles warmly and gives Tessa a
Speaker 1: moment to collect yourself.
Speaker 4: Take your time.
Speaker 12: So I have a vague recollection.
Speaker 9: It's really really vague.
Speaker 12: What I what really stands out is that we were
Speaker 12: just going deeping, like we went teping a lot, you know,
Speaker 12: not just on that night, and we literally just stumbled
Speaker 12: upon your home.
Speaker 9: And that's what I remember.
Speaker 1: Clark Farros's brow. He wants his mother to push harder,
Speaker 1: be more aggressive.
Speaker 3: Ask why you weren't invited to go toilet papering with them?
Speaker 1: And that's a really good question. We watch a sky
Speaker 1: waits patiently for Tessa to finish speaking.
Speaker 4: He wanted me to ask you why didn't come with
Speaker 4: you that night teeping? Why weren't you invited? Not why
Speaker 4: didn't that come? Why I wasn't invited?
Speaker 12: I I in my mind we had drifted apart by then.
Speaker 1: Inside the control room, Clark shakes his head.
Speaker 4: I think there's more to the story, you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what makes you think that? He slumps back in
Speaker 1: his seat and crosses his arms. He seems frustrated.
Speaker 12: I remember your mom calling my mom, and for my
Speaker 12: mom it wasn't a big deal either. My mom, first
Speaker 12: of all, didn't even know what teaping was I had
Speaker 12: to explain.
Speaker 5: It to her.
Speaker 12: Oh, okay, I did not realize until maybe now that
Speaker 12: it was more of a big deal for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I feel like you're being very, very honest,
Speaker 4: and I really really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: When Tessa and I last spoke, she'd mentioned how odd
Speaker 1: this whole undertaking seemed to her. A woman she hadn't
Speaker 1: heard from in thirty five years, wanted to talk to
Speaker 1: her about a random night from their childhood. Oh and
Speaker 1: she also wanted to bring along her eleven year old
Speaker 1: son and his forty eight year old sidekick, both of
Speaker 1: whom would be communicating with Sky through a secret microphone.
Speaker 9: Well, can you hear Wait?
Speaker 5: Wait, let's wait so she can talk about.
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait. Inside the control room, I watched Sky
Speaker 1: perform a delicate balancing act. She's aware that Clark is watching,
Speaker 1: so she's trying not to be too timid, but she
Speaker 1: also wants to set a good example for how to
Speaker 1: behave and through all that, she can't help seeing it
Speaker 1: from Tessa's perspective, how weird and uncomfortable this must be
Speaker 1: for her. Sky wants to help Tessa feel safe, and
Speaker 1: so she treads lightly.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think being the parent now of a child,
Speaker 4: I understand how quickly things can get confused. And it
Speaker 4: really was the words that that's what seemed to communicate
Speaker 4: to me, I've done something terrible, like I must have it.
Speaker 4: I must be responsible for this in some way, you know,
Speaker 4: And so I wondered, did I do something?
Speaker 1: You can see that. TESSAs weighing her response. She doesn't
Speaker 1: quite know what to say, but with Sky being so
Speaker 1: gracious and open, it's like she feels the least she
Speaker 1: can do is try to meet her halfway, and so
Speaker 1: tentatively she offers a thought.
Speaker 13: Ah, maybe we're a little different than them in what way?
Speaker 4: Again?
Speaker 1: Tessa searches for the right words, all the while, never
Speaker 1: seeing us or we, but always they.
Speaker 12: Oh they were like they were a little mischievous, you know.
Speaker 12: They were they were a little rebellious and wanting to
Speaker 12: do something bad, and I was, and maybe you weren't.
Speaker 12: Maybe you didn't want to go along with what they
Speaker 12: were doing.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what's interesting about that is the whole
Speaker 4: tepeeing thing. I remember that being a thing, but I
Speaker 4: remember I actually remember not wanting to do that. Would
Speaker 4: you say that that that maybe I was more like
Speaker 4: a goodie two shoes.
Speaker 13: Type compared to them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: According to Tessa, if Sky stayed friends with those girls,
Speaker 1: it would have meant a summer of drinking alcohol and
Speaker 1: pulling off semi illegal pranks after dark, all things Sky
Speaker 1: wouldn't have wanted. Even back then, she didn't want to
Speaker 1: upset anyone. To her friends, that made her seem like
Speaker 1: a goody two shoes, And to a goodie two shoes
Speaker 1: who thinks they're better than you. What could be more
Speaker 1: of a fuck you than a literal fuck you? The
Speaker 1: words large and clear emblazoned across her family's garage door.
Speaker 1: I turned to Clark to see what he makes of
Speaker 1: all this. Is there something that you feel like we're
Speaker 1: just kind of missing or we're not getting it? And
Speaker 1: I remember really not wanting to beat clarkstairs straight ahead,
Speaker 1: watching his mom. I can see he's thinking something through.
Speaker 1: He makes a move towards the mic, but then shies away.
Speaker 1: He's antsy, rising from his seat, settling back. Eventually, I
Speaker 1: make a suggestion, do you just want to go with them?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Totally?
Speaker 1: Clark gets up, leaves the control room and makes his
Speaker 1: way to the studio to talk to his mom. In
Speaker 1: person watching him, I have no idea what he's up to.
Speaker 4: Oh Clark is here, Oh Clark.
Speaker 1: Enters the room.
Speaker 7: Was that?
Speaker 1: But it's not his Mommy's addressing, it's Tessa. I take
Speaker 1: a deep breath as Clark begins to speak.
Speaker 3: Uh, did you feel in any way like dragged into it,
Speaker 3: like to do, like to toilet paper people's houses.
Speaker 12: I don't know if I would say dragged, but I
Speaker 12: would say definitely I was a follower.
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly surprised by Clark's question. It's the same
Speaker 1: one he's been asking since the beginning, essentially, why did
Speaker 1: you do this to my mother? But I am surprised
Speaker 1: by the way he's asking it, not with him but
Speaker 1: with sympathy. For the first time, Clark's trying to see
Speaker 1: it all from Tessa's perspective. He's following his mom's example.
Speaker 12: Sometimes you're with friends because those are the ones you have,
Speaker 12: So you'll stick with your friends even though you see
Speaker 12: things that you don't like in them. You know that
Speaker 12: you just don't want to be alone.
Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks, okay, yeah, thanks Claire.
Speaker 1: And because Tessa didn't want to be alone, she continued
Speaker 1: to hang out with the girls for several more years
Speaker 1: before eventually finding a new group of friends. Tessa turns
Speaker 1: the Sky.
Speaker 9: Honey, you freakin dodged a bullet.
Speaker 14: That's what you did with not being with those girls,
Speaker 14: I have to say.
Speaker 1: Sky tells Tessa that there's still one thing she's been
Speaker 1: wondering about. Why did Tessa agree to talk with her
Speaker 1: at all? It would have been easy to say no,
Speaker 1: everyone else did well.
Speaker 12: I said, yeah, yeah, truthfully, the call was so out
Speaker 12: of the blue, of course, I you know, at the beginning,
Speaker 12: I said, yeah, sure, you know, like and then I
Speaker 12: talked to my daughter and she was like, no, like,
Speaker 12: don't do that.
Speaker 4: How old is your daughter?
Speaker 9: My daughter is almost thirteen? Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4: What was she worried about?
Speaker 9: She's she kind of said, like, what's in it for you?
Speaker 8: Mm hm?
Speaker 12: You know, she was kind of worried that, like I
Speaker 12: would come out as a bad person or something.
Speaker 4: How is she feeling right now that you're here?
Speaker 9: She's mad?
Speaker 12: She is, Yeah, she's mad, But you know I told her, like,
Speaker 12: not everything we do in life is for us, it's
Speaker 12: for other people as well, So she'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Whereas Guy set out to show her Sun that she
Speaker 1: has the courage to stand up for her own needs.
Speaker 1: Tessa wants to show her that she has the courage
Speaker 1: to stand up for someone else's.
Speaker 9: I'm sorry that I didn't.
Speaker 12: The thought of you thinking for thirty five years that
Speaker 12: you had done something wrong is like, ugh, I really
Speaker 12: don't think that you did anything.
Speaker 9: I really don't.
Speaker 12: I'm sorry that you felt like that, you know, I
Speaker 12: wish that you hadn't.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad. I'm hearing it now.
Speaker 9: I'm glad too.
Speaker 12: So I'm really glad, And it's really good to see you.
Speaker 12: And you literally look exactly the same. Your hair is
Speaker 12: a little shorter, right.
Speaker 1: Michael, do you go ahead?
Speaker 4: Was that dramatic hug? Oh, you want a dramatic hug.
Speaker 4: That's glad. I think we have to have the dramatic hug.
Speaker 1: Because the room's so small. When they stand, they're already
Speaker 1: almost touching. They look at each other for a brief moment,
Speaker 1: and then Sky opens her wings.
Speaker 4: Oh to see so good to see you.
Speaker 1: After the meeting with Tessa, Clark didn't have much to say,
Speaker 1: but at night, back in his room, in that space
Speaker 1: where he feels free to open up, Clark's eager to
Speaker 1: talk about Tessa.
Speaker 6: Honestly, I didn't know that person, so I thought they
Speaker 6: might like still be the boy still bullying you. And
Speaker 6: I didn't want you to feel like scared or anything
Speaker 6: in that situation, so I was kind of anxious. Well
Speaker 6: then I met Tessa and she was like super nice.
Speaker 5: She was nice, and.
Speaker 6: I feel like you'd like you weren't, tim and Mommy,
Speaker 6: you were brave, Mommy.
Speaker 1: Tonight there's no talk of avenging. Through his mom's example,
Speaker 1: Clark's learning that one can be kind without being timid.
Speaker 1: The kindness can carry its own strength.
Speaker 4: If you had if he hadn't had that night where
Speaker 4: you had said you have to figure this out, Mom,
Speaker 4: I really honestly don't think I would have done it.
Speaker 4: So thank you.
Speaker 6: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more coming for Clark, moments when he'll
Speaker 1: have to make difficult decisions. Some of them he'll talk
Speaker 1: about with Sky and some he won't. But for now
Speaker 1: they keep talking, neither of them quite ready to go
Speaker 1: to sleep just yet.
Speaker 4: Remember when you said that there was an international tomato day,
Speaker 4: Stop hugging me, it was international.
Speaker 11: Now that the furnitures returning to its goodwill home, Now
Speaker 11: that the last.
Speaker 7: Month's rent is ski mean, with the damage to the bottom,
Speaker 7: take this moment to do so if we meant it,
Speaker 7: if we from things that accidentally?
Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 4: You guys can't see me.
Speaker 1: It looks like, yeah, are we doing this with the
Speaker 1: cameras off?
Speaker 4: There? I think I just clicked there you are?
Speaker 1: Hello? You know, as I was waiting for you to
Speaker 1: pop up. You know what word entered my mind?
Speaker 4: What word is that?
Speaker 1: Nervous? Sighted?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Jonathan nervous? I still use that word,
Speaker 4: do you really? I mean I use it regularly. I
Speaker 4: mean I feel like it should be an actual word.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's Uh, it's the perfect portmanteau. I feel like. Also,
Speaker 1: it's come up recently for me, as it does occasionally,
Speaker 1: and I think of I think of you, I think
Speaker 1: of Clark.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's great.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you some real meat and potato
Speaker 1: questions here.
Speaker 4: All right, bring it on.
Speaker 1: So did you ever hear from Tessa or the other
Speaker 1: girls after the episode came out?
Speaker 4: I never heard from any of the other girls. And
Speaker 4: then Tessa and I kept in touch for a little while,
Speaker 4: and I actually, when I knew that we were going
Speaker 4: to be having this conversation. I reached out to her
Speaker 4: and I told her that I was going to be
Speaker 4: talking to you, and what I wanted to know mostly
Speaker 4: from her was how her daughter felt about it. Now.
Speaker 4: Oh and actually she texted me, Should I read you
Speaker 4: what she wrote?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, So here's what she said. We did
Speaker 4: go back and listen to the podcast together. She's referring
Speaker 4: to her daughter. She did not remember being mad at me,
Speaker 4: and she said she was thankful and happy that I
Speaker 4: took part in that. Seven years makes a huge difference.
Speaker 4: She also said, middle school sucks.
Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, it really does go full circle.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And speaking of which, so back then Clark was eleven,
Speaker 1: so that would mean that he's what eighteen.
Speaker 4: Now he's nineteen, actually eighteen. Yeah, it's not that insane,
Speaker 4: it's insane. He's a freshman in college.
Speaker 1: Wow, So what is he studying.
Speaker 4: He's studying political science.
Speaker 1: That seems to make sense. I mean, even from just
Speaker 1: what I knew of him at the age of eleven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like standing up for himself, standing up standing up for
Speaker 1: the little guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like standing up for the little guy, and sort
Speaker 4: of also like this sense of like justice must be served.
Speaker 1: You would hoped that that Clark would learn from the
Speaker 1: episode's mission, like basically, you wanted to show how to
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself, but to do so with kindness.
Speaker 1: And do you feel like he took those lessons with
Speaker 1: him through the rest of middle school in high school.
Speaker 4: Okay, let me be perfectly honest with you, Jonathan. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he was really grateful, just like I am. I think
Speaker 4: he felt fondness for Tessa for showing up. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: I do have to also tell you, yea, as far
Speaker 4: as the other three girls who didn't show up go,
Speaker 4: he's still really mad at them.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He feels like they didn't take accountability for what happened,
Speaker 4: and that's really still frustrating to him. So I you know,
Speaker 4: I sort of at first when he said to me,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm still mad at those girls, there was
Speaker 4: a part of me that felt disappointed because like, I
Speaker 4: don't feel that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't feel that way even afterwards?
Speaker 4: No, immediately, Yeah, I really didn't. I mean, I think
Speaker 4: the warm feelings, the sense of fondness that I developed
Speaker 4: for Tessa during our conversation like really eclipsed these old
Speaker 4: painful feelings that I had had. And also in the meantime,
Speaker 4: I've raised two teenagers too, right, and maybe you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know if Clark will have children, but if
Speaker 4: he does have children, like, maybe then his perspective on
Speaker 4: how he feels about the girls who didn't show up,
Speaker 4: maybe it will change then, Like we're always evolving, We're
Speaker 4: always changing, and you know, I can't argue with him
Speaker 4: about his feelings. His feelings are valid, and I want
Speaker 4: to respect the way that he feels about it, and
Speaker 4: so I feel great about how things have evolved since then. Good.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, if if Clark was so inclined, it
Speaker 1: would be really cool if he wanted to send a
Speaker 1: voice message to saying, Hi.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, she sounds so different. Yeah, I'll ask him,
Speaker 4: ask him.
Speaker 10: Hey, guys, it's Clark. I think it's really cool that
Speaker 10: you guys are doing this episode to revisit the podcast
Speaker 10: we did all those years ago. That's a really cool
Speaker 10: memory for me that I really cherish, you know, kind
Speaker 10: of helping my mom get closure about a story that
Speaker 10: she used to tell me when I was growing up.
Speaker 10: Before we even thought of trying to write in and
Speaker 10: see if people would be interested in listening to it,
Speaker 10: I'm off in college.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 10: It's been quite a while, but I'd just like to
Speaker 10: thank everyone was involved. It was a really great time,
Speaker 10: great experience, and I'm glad to have had it.
Speaker 1: To piggyback off of Clark's words, spoken in a surprisingly
Speaker 1: bass baritone, I'd like to thank everyone who helped put
Speaker 1: the episode together, and we'll be back once again with
Speaker 1: another exciting update in two weeks. But before then, might
Speaker 1: I direct your attention to our free newsletter. Maybe you've
Speaker 1: heard about it, maybe you haven't. If you have not,
Speaker 1: please sign up at patreon dot com. Slash Heavyweight