Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep within
Speaker 1: the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Fresco,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like d Lamb and now your hosts. Brian
Speaker 1: brought us David Hellman, Bucky Brooks, and Kyle Yeomans. Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, Welcome in to draft season. As the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl is in the rearview mirror. We are just seventy
Speaker 1: six days away from the NFL Draft, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: break it all down for you eight right here on
Speaker 1: the Draft Show presented by Miller Lite As it is
Speaker 1: a wonderful Tuesday edition of The Draft Show. Kyle Yeoman's,
Speaker 1: Bucky Brooks, Brian brought us David Hellman with you as
Speaker 1: we are here for the next hour talking about some
Speaker 1: of the favorite draft prospects and even the draft thinking
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to the Dallas Cowboys in resort of
Speaker 1: Super Bowl fifty five and how that might shift the thinking.
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, just kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about that Super Bowl. I feel like we
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to go through really our predictions
Speaker 1: or our thoughts on the super Bowl last week because
Speaker 1: we were busy breaking down the Senior Bowl instead of
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. But now that the Super bowls in
Speaker 1: the rearview here, Bucky, were you surprised about the Buccaneers
Speaker 1: getting in there and getting a thirty one to nine victory.
Speaker 1: Another super Bowl ring for Tom Brady and the way
Speaker 1: that that team was constructed. Well, I mean, now that
Speaker 1: I get to talk after the Super Bowl, I don't
Speaker 1: have them put up my prediction. No, I wasn't surprised.
Speaker 1: I knew all along that when you look at these
Speaker 1: defense not I mean I didn't expect the Buccaneers to
Speaker 1: be able to do what they did. But then when
Speaker 1: you see the game play out, I think there's some
Speaker 1: things that always go hand in hand. If you invest
Speaker 1: in the offensive and defensive lines, you always have a chance.
Speaker 1: If you put speed on defense, particularly at the second level,
Speaker 1: it gives you a chance. And from a coaching staff standpoint,
Speaker 1: if you do things that are necessary to eliminate the
Speaker 1: big plays, you have a chance to win games. And
Speaker 1: the Tampa by Buccaneers played I would almost say the
Speaker 1: perfect game, but they played pretty flawless on both ends.
Speaker 1: And I think the way that They're constructed. They were
Speaker 1: just a team that was perfectly constructed to beat the
Speaker 1: Kansi to cheese playing the way that they played, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. When I was in the scouting
Speaker 1: world when my team got eliminated, I didn't watch the
Speaker 1: playoffs or the Super Bowl or anything like that. I
Speaker 1: just I just immediately started in the tape. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's so funny. And now that I'm on the media
Speaker 1: side of things, I actually do watch the game. I
Speaker 1: think the thing that we didn't give Tampa enough credit
Speaker 1: for was their ability to adjust their defensive scheme. You know,
Speaker 1: after giving up four hundred and sixty seven yards passing
Speaker 1: in Week twelve, you know, Todd Bowles realized, listen, I
Speaker 1: can't play this way and have it come out. I
Speaker 1: do think though, that the buccane years playing Kansas City
Speaker 1: close in Week twelve, going toe to toe with him,
Speaker 1: I think that gave him some ideas that, like, you
Speaker 1: know what, we'll be okay if we have to play
Speaker 1: these guys. And at that point in time, you know,
Speaker 1: that was their last loss and they've reeled it off
Speaker 1: like a eight straight victories now to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: So I think playing the Chiefs in Week twelve helped them.
Speaker 1: I think you have to have a coaching staff that's
Speaker 1: willing to adjust. And if you look at the way
Speaker 1: that Todd as what Todd Bulls did, but what Jason
Speaker 1: light did the General Manager's Buccaneers. You know, he went
Speaker 1: out and kind of built this thing through the draft,
Speaker 1: through the linebackers, their safety, but he also worked through
Speaker 1: free agency to get a couple of different players to
Speaker 1: help with that defensive line. So it's clearly possible to
Speaker 1: do when you start to talk about team building, that
Speaker 1: you can construct your team to compete with one of
Speaker 1: the best teams in the National Football League. And I think,
Speaker 1: Kyle is this is what we're going to get into.
Speaker 1: I'm going to avoid the knee jerk reaction this year, Brian.
Speaker 1: That's what we were talking about before the show. I'm
Speaker 1: going to avoid the knee jerk reaction because I certainly
Speaker 1: did not expect Tampa. This is very unlike you to
Speaker 1: do this. By the way, thank you, Yeah, I appreciate.
Speaker 1: Did we change your mind going into the show? That's
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do. No, I just I think,
Speaker 1: like you know, and it's understandable because only one team
Speaker 1: gets to win the Super Bowl every year. But like
Speaker 1: everybody looks at the Super Bowl winner as like having
Speaker 1: this secret sauce. You know, like everybody spent eight years
Speaker 1: chasing the Seattle Seahawks because they built that incredible team
Speaker 1: that made two Super Bowls, and everybody wants to find
Speaker 1: the next Patrick Mahomes for a similar reason. But you
Speaker 1: look at the Buccaneers. This was a pretty decent team
Speaker 1: last year with a pretty ferocious pass rush last year.
Speaker 1: By the way, Devin White was a stud as a rookie.
Speaker 1: Lavante David has been an underrated All Pro caliber player
Speaker 1: for a long time. Shack Barrett had twenty sacks and
Speaker 1: JPP had nine last year. So you take that core
Speaker 1: and add to it a Hall of Fame quarterback, a
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame tight end, a top five pick running back,
Speaker 1: and a crazy albeit very talented, All Pro caliber wide receiver. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I picked Kansas City to win that game.
Speaker 1: I definitely thought that it would be more competitive even
Speaker 1: if Tampa did win. But I shouldn't be surprised that
Speaker 1: this Tampa Bay team was Super Bowl caliber. And on
Speaker 1: top of that, not to take too much credit away
Speaker 1: from them, I don't care what you say. If if
Speaker 1: Mitchell Schwartz and Eric Fisher are available for that game,
Speaker 1: I think Kansas City wins. I think the Chiefs win
Speaker 1: if they can protect Pat Malomes. So I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know, Bucky just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like and I think I think this
Speaker 1: right because like the guys that Dave rout it off,
Speaker 1: those guys made contributions in the Super Bowl, but they
Speaker 1: weren't really the coin radiance of the cake that the
Speaker 1: big Buccaneers baked, like Antonio Brown and Rob Gronkowsky. They
Speaker 1: showed up in the Super Bowl, but they have been
Speaker 1: relatively quiet the whole time. I think the strategy is
Speaker 1: a league quarterback and elite playing the trenches will always
Speaker 1: give you a chance. Like this team, quietly to Tristan
Speaker 1: Worth's in the first round, solidified the offensive line. They're
Speaker 1: able to run the football because as much as we
Speaker 1: would give credit to Tom Brady, they won in the
Speaker 1: playoffs because playoff Lenny showed up and they began to
Speaker 1: play old school football. They've managed the game. They let
Speaker 1: their defense create a ton of takeaways and it really
Speaker 1: set them up. And so when I look at this
Speaker 1: team in terms of the lessons that we can learn. Man,
Speaker 1: if you got pass rushers, if you have speed at linebacker,
Speaker 1: if you can bully people at the offensive line, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter what you have outside. It gives you
Speaker 1: a chance to get to that point where you can
Speaker 1: play playoff football. This is gonna sound nitpicky, but I
Speaker 1: would just say those guys showed up in the entire playoffs.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd be like Flournette caught fire, Gronkowski played
Speaker 1: well in the playoffs, like it wasn't just the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: But I don't, I don't disagree with you, and I
Speaker 1: guess just my and not to give tom Brady all
Speaker 1: of the credit, but this was a seven and nine
Speaker 1: team with a lot of the same core contributors, and
Speaker 1: they win the Super Bowl because they have Tom Brady
Speaker 1: and again not just because of him. Yeah. My final
Speaker 1: point about this guy's is and we talk about how
Speaker 1: to build teams, but also about coaching, Todd Bowles went
Speaker 1: out of his element to make a game plan that
Speaker 1: could help his defense win. On the other hand, Andy
Speaker 1: Reid eric the enemy with the compromised offensive line, they
Speaker 1: should have tried to run the football. They should have
Speaker 1: tried to wear down Tampa's rush, and when Tampa made
Speaker 1: them one dimensional, that was it. It was over, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean both teams. If you look at Tampa, Tampa
Speaker 1: didn't run the ball until late in the year. I
Speaker 1: mean it was they were the one team that every
Speaker 1: time you looked up they were last in the league.
Speaker 1: When it came to second down, they were second and
Speaker 1: eight all year, you know. And I think that when
Speaker 1: you look at Bowls the plan he did Andy read them.
Speaker 1: On the other side, they didn't protect that offensive line.
Speaker 1: That offensive line was compromised. Maybe you could have helped
Speaker 1: them by trying to run the football and maybe lean
Speaker 1: on Tampa Bay's pass rush a little bit and make
Speaker 1: them have to do that. Even though the Bucks were
Speaker 1: number one in the league when it came to run defense,
Speaker 1: I think you still had to try it. And they didn't.
Speaker 1: They exposed their quarterback to a beating because they weren't
Speaker 1: willing to adapt their their game plan like Todd Bowles
Speaker 1: was on the other side, and you did right. So
Speaker 1: here here, here's here's fun David, and I want to
Speaker 1: get get this out. So here's the thing that I
Speaker 1: think we all struggle with right because we just saw
Speaker 1: this last year with the Cowboys. There's a thing where
Speaker 1: you can say, hey, we do what we do, right,
Speaker 1: that's what we do as it was right they had
Speaker 1: twenty five and one coming into this game doing what
Speaker 1: they do. We play eleven personnel. We don't go two
Speaker 1: tight ends. We're faster than you. You can't stop us.
Speaker 1: Deal with it. And then you have the other way
Speaker 1: where you talk about Todd Bowles utilizing maybe a multiple
Speaker 1: prong approach, like hey we can play some cover two,
Speaker 1: we can play three, will blitz, will do all this.
Speaker 1: And so it's the debate because we saw that approach
Speaker 1: fail in Dallas where Mike Nolan wanted to be hey,
Speaker 1: let's be multiple, let's throw all this stuff out and
Speaker 1: let's do all these different coverages, and the players are like,
Speaker 1: h no, I can't do that. And so it's it's
Speaker 1: funny and I do wonder what lessons will be learned
Speaker 1: from watching how Tampa Bay win. You know, this is
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to watch. There was also this out
Speaker 1: there too, and I'll oh, sorry, Kyle, go ahead, no,
Speaker 1: go for it, Dave. I just this this is not new,
Speaker 1: but I'll tie it into the Cowboys, and they're very
Speaker 1: obvious draft needs. This is like as old of an
Speaker 1: adage as there is. I'm not saying anything groundbreaking, but
Speaker 1: it's hard not to notice that these two teams were
Speaker 1: very strong up the middle defense of Lee. Right, you
Speaker 1: talk about you talk about getting Vita Vaya back from
Speaker 1: a broken ankle, you talk about you know, and Domikinsue
Speaker 1: has been a beast for a decade. Uh, Devin White
Speaker 1: and Lavonte David. Like I said, I don't like the
Speaker 1: idea of drafting off ball linebackers super high, but if
Speaker 1: you're telling me it's Levante David or Devin White, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty damn interested. And then you got you know, you
Speaker 1: have you have guys like h Antoine Winfield, junior Tyron
Speaker 1: Matthew making plays all over the field. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it would have changed the outcome, but the the
Speaker 1: Tyre and Matthew interception that got taken away was bs
Speaker 1: that should have been a pick. Well, I'll see you
Speaker 1: what too. And again we're going back. We've talked about
Speaker 1: this so previous shows. The shorter players they have opportunity.
Speaker 1: Now you know, CHRISTI should turn away from the shorter
Speaker 1: player if you could play, you could play, and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's there are some things about the measurables that
Speaker 1: you you should believe in. But if you could play,
Speaker 1: you could play. And that's the things about guys like
Speaker 1: Winfield and those linebackers Tampa. You know, if you could run,
Speaker 1: if you could cover, if you could get to the ball,
Speaker 1: if you could finish, we you know, we have to
Speaker 1: consider you because again, you just can't say, oh, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get this kind of guy and this kind of guy. No,
Speaker 1: you have to keep your eyes open for all types
Speaker 1: of players to make part of your roster. And going
Speaker 1: off of that, Brian, and you're talking about these players
Speaker 1: that can play, and you're talking about the tape and
Speaker 1: even whether or not the position specifically it fits. Whatever
Speaker 1: your defense is, does this change your thought process about
Speaker 1: a guy like a Mica and Parsons. And I know, Dave,
Speaker 1: whenever you were talking about off ball linebackers, that's who
Speaker 1: you were referring to, especially at pick number ten. But Brian,
Speaker 1: if you're talking about finding those players, the film is
Speaker 1: there for Micah Parsons, it's the character, it's the drive
Speaker 1: kind of concerns that might kind of stray you away. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing. I think with Parsons, you
Speaker 1: have to look at his situation and say, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: physically he looks great, but does he make enough plays?
Speaker 1: I mean, And that's the that's the scary part of
Speaker 1: these evaluations is you can get as a scout, as
Speaker 1: we all watch these tapes and these games, you can
Speaker 1: get mesmerized by how big he is good, he looks
Speaker 1: in that number eleven running around out there. But you know,
Speaker 1: the bottom line is is he in on every tackle.
Speaker 1: That's the thing when you watch the guys like White
Speaker 1: and David and those guys they're in college, they're in
Speaker 1: on every tackle. Yeah, that's the things that gets you
Speaker 1: excited about watching take Winfield the same way, the reason
Speaker 1: why you would take a shorter safety is because this
Speaker 1: kid would knock you out, he'd play the ball, he
Speaker 1: finished as a tackler. Those are the types of things
Speaker 1: you look for, and I think with Parsons you get scared.
Speaker 1: You honestly get scared because there'll be four or five
Speaker 1: plays where he's just not involved and you're thinking, damn,
Speaker 1: a guy that big has to be in the middle
Speaker 1: of all this, you know, and you wonder if it's immatured,
Speaker 1: if it's just football intelligence, is it just desire. I mean,
Speaker 1: all these things kind of pop in your head. But
Speaker 1: you watch him play, how he looks physically on the field,
Speaker 1: you become seduced by watching that, and that's a scary
Speaker 1: thing to have to deal with, I think, Brian, I
Speaker 1: think a couple of things that you touched on that
Speaker 1: are intriguing to me. One we talk about like the
Speaker 1: off the ball linebacker conversation. I think that's a fascinating
Speaker 1: conversation because I don't know where those adages came from,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like we talk about the off
Speaker 1: the ball linebacker. I just know this. When I watched
Speaker 1: Devin White and Lavante David play, they suck up everything.
Speaker 1: And I think if you go back and watch them
Speaker 1: in college, they did the same exact thing. Like their energy,
Speaker 1: their relentlessness, their passion in terms of pursuing the ball,
Speaker 1: it stands out. And then I'm gonna be honest, maybe
Speaker 1: some of this is old school, Like I like guys
Speaker 1: that not taste out your mouth, Like Devin White when
Speaker 1: he was hitting the Kansa City Chiefs, he was hitting
Speaker 1: them to put them out. And I think when we
Speaker 1: get to the playoffs and those things, you need to
Speaker 1: have those kinds of guys. I think when Michael Parsons,
Speaker 1: I think the first thing that we have to do
Speaker 1: before we talked about him, who is coaching him? Because
Speaker 1: I think you have to scout the coaches because if
Speaker 1: you have a guy who can get that out of him,
Speaker 1: then it's one thing. But if you have a mild
Speaker 1: mannered linebacker coach, a more cerebral linebacker coach, a one
Speaker 1: who can't kind of like urge and take out the
Speaker 1: pronger and kind of get that, you're wasting your time
Speaker 1: because he's never going to change or he's not going
Speaker 1: to raise his standard of expectation when it comes to it.
Speaker 1: But in looking at him, man like, I know he
Speaker 1: hasn't played in the year, but when you see him
Speaker 1: his ability to blitz, his size and strength, when he
Speaker 1: turns it on and he runs through people, you feel
Speaker 1: his presence on tape. Can you get him to hustle more?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that's where you have to
Speaker 1: dig into the character of him and see how much
Speaker 1: does he love it, because if he loves it, he'll
Speaker 1: play hard. Yeah, see this is the thing we talk
Speaker 1: about too. If you watch the Notre Dame kid Koragora, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's two hundred and twenty pounds and making every single tackle.
Speaker 1: I mean he is, and he is in every single play.
Speaker 1: You watch him play and you're like going, my gosh,
Speaker 1: this kid's a good football player. You know. You watch
Speaker 1: the kid Bolton, It's another one we've talked about from Missouri.
Speaker 1: He's a shorter guy, he's in every single play. Those
Speaker 1: are the kinds of things when you're looking at a
Speaker 1: sixty three, two hundred forty four pound linebacker, you're expecting
Speaker 1: that from him. And that's what's scary. That is what's
Speaker 1: so scary because but but to what the point I
Speaker 1: was making earlier, you shouldn't be afraid of the Notre
Speaker 1: Dame linebacker. You shouldn't be afraid of the Missouri linebacker.
Speaker 1: You know why because they're making plays, they're finishing tackles,
Speaker 1: they're physical, is what they're doing. There's no questions about
Speaker 1: those guys. So there's guys out there and you but
Speaker 1: the coaches, like Bucky said, have got to be willing
Speaker 1: to coach them hard when they have to to to
Speaker 1: entertain Like maybe they have some flaws, work around those flaws,
Speaker 1: help them develop a little bit. That's where coaching comes
Speaker 1: into that guy. But if you if you reach a
Speaker 1: guy like that, that kid at Penn State, you could
Speaker 1: have a rear player. You really really could, David, if
Speaker 1: you if you have win guys here. I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you this really quickly. If you have one
Speaker 1: guy out of that list of linebackers that could potentially
Speaker 1: fit with the Cowboys, and you could take them up,
Speaker 1: and you could pluck them right there, and you think
Speaker 1: that no matter what round it is, it could be
Speaker 1: in any round, which one would you do it for?
Speaker 1: Would it be Core Moore, would it be would it
Speaker 1: be a Bolton? Is it still Parsons? Up at the
Speaker 1: top of the draft? Which one would you take, pluck
Speaker 1: and put right in the middle of that Cowboys defense? Well,
Speaker 1: that's actually I was about to say, is and I
Speaker 1: think we've brought this up since dan Quinn was hired,
Speaker 1: But I think you have to consider a different class
Speaker 1: of linebacker in light of the type of linebackers that
Speaker 1: dan Quinn has favored in the past. Like I've you know,
Speaker 1: I've brought up Dion Jones, Devin White's LSU teammate. He's
Speaker 1: he's six six foot and a half two twenty five
Speaker 1: like the Saint A. These aren't hulking monster lie backers.
Speaker 1: And they made him a second round pick. And I
Speaker 1: brought this up last night. I'm I'm not the guy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave that to Brian to tell you where
Speaker 1: you need to draft these guys. But I freaking and
Speaker 1: or Bucky for that matter, I love Jeremiah Ousuko Orma like.
Speaker 1: He's fun to watch. I think he's got a very
Speaker 1: modern element to his game in the sense that you know,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame moves him over to the slot to handle
Speaker 1: some of that. He can play linebacker, he can probably
Speaker 1: do a little safety. He blitzes, he gets after the quarterback,
Speaker 1: he tackles everything, he makes plays on the ball, and
Speaker 1: that's all the stuff that I want from somebody in
Speaker 1: the middle of my defense. So I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: he's worth the tenth overall pick, but I like that
Speaker 1: guy a lot. I would be thrilled to have him
Speaker 1: on my defense. He's a good player, and I think
Speaker 1: everything you guys talk about matters. And I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you brought up the point about DQ because I think
Speaker 1: that really changes the temperature when it comes to the
Speaker 1: linebackers that will be in the conversation, because if you
Speaker 1: go back and you look at his history, and you
Speaker 1: look at the history when those guys were in Seattle,
Speaker 1: those linebackers aren't prototypical size wise. Those guys are fast
Speaker 1: guys that play and can go sideline the sideline. I
Speaker 1: do think the one thing that stands out, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's ever been around a first round linebacker,
Speaker 1: like I think Bobby Wagner was a second rounder. kJ
Speaker 1: Wright was someone that went later in the draft. You
Speaker 1: go to Atlanta, they never invested a first rounder and
Speaker 1: a linebacker. So I think it's probably looking a little
Speaker 1: bit beneath the surface to try and find who's in
Speaker 1: that next tier who has those Lavante David Devin White,
Speaker 1: fast playmaking trace that you're like, Okay, if I put
Speaker 1: them behind big defensive tackles, they can run and flow
Speaker 1: and do all those things that you wanted to do.
Speaker 1: The guy that was interesting to me in that case,
Speaker 1: and I think you're dead on with this, Bucky. I
Speaker 1: just don't see them using a first round pick. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love the Notre Dame kid. I would because I
Speaker 1: see in the stay in age how you have to
Speaker 1: have and it's an overused term. We do it all
Speaker 1: the time with the radio, the position flex. Rod Marinelli
Speaker 1: used to wear us out about position flex and all that.
Speaker 1: But you watch Coreymoor play. He's lining up in the slot,
Speaker 1: he's lining up at linebacker, he's you know, he's doing everything.
Speaker 1: And maybe this was what killed Isaiah Simmons last year
Speaker 1: at Clemson, that we watched him so much doing so
Speaker 1: many different things and he didn't do anything. You know,
Speaker 1: It's like put him in a spot, let him play.
Speaker 1: So maybe if you look at the second tier linebackers,
Speaker 1: I might drive you guys nuts with this guy. But
Speaker 1: the Pete Warner kid from Ohio State to me six one,
Speaker 1: two thirty five, he runs, he tackles. Here's a guy
Speaker 1: that probably is not going to be a first round guy,
Speaker 1: but man, in the second round, you're picking at forty four.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of liking what I'm seeing with this guy
Speaker 1: because he's got that ability. He was a converted safety,
Speaker 1: so he kind of understands like the coverage aspect of things.
Speaker 1: But he also is you put him down there as
Speaker 1: a linebacker. He's getting after people. He's running sideline to sidelines,
Speaker 1: he's getting he's getting behind the line of scrimmage, he's
Speaker 1: making plays. He's a finisher. So I mean, those are
Speaker 1: the types of guys I'm looking at for potentially if
Speaker 1: they didn't go first round at linebacker, Bucky, Bucky, cover
Speaker 1: your ears real quick, because I don't want I don't
Speaker 1: want you to hear this at linebackers. I don't want
Speaker 1: you to hear this linebacker slander. But that would be
Speaker 1: that would be an ideal outcome for me. Like I'm
Speaker 1: not dying to spend Like I've said this before, I'm
Speaker 1: not dying to spend a top ten pick at that position.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're telling me, I can get one
Speaker 1: of the premier positions like a cornerback or an offensive
Speaker 1: tackle in the first round instead and still find a
Speaker 1: plug and play linebacker. You know, Lavante David. I looked
Speaker 1: this up. He was like the fifty eighth overall thing.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's not a given you're gonna draft Lavonte David,
Speaker 1: but like, you can find guys with that upside in
Speaker 1: the second third round. Much rather take my chances there
Speaker 1: and draft a more valuable position at the top of
Speaker 1: the draft. You know, I'm not opposed to that strategy
Speaker 1: day like that's that's I'm not saying that. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying like sometimes you have to make an exception, like
Speaker 1: in the top out, Like I think it was very
Speaker 1: clear to see when we watched Devin White. Hey, he's
Speaker 1: a different dude, Like those different dudes should get graded
Speaker 1: as such. Much like I had a tough time considering
Speaker 1: Quinn Nelson as the number three overall pick as a
Speaker 1: guard because I've been trained. Man, there's no way we
Speaker 1: can find the guard in the fifth, six, seventh round.
Speaker 1: We always can find the guard because they always have
Speaker 1: neighbors around them. But then when you see a player
Speaker 1: who comes in who is knocking guys off the screen,
Speaker 1: you kind of have to be considered like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: maybe we'll do this. But I think I look, I
Speaker 1: think the first round, like now, when we look at it,
Speaker 1: it really should be reserved for four positions. It is quarterback,
Speaker 1: offensive tackle, pass rusher, and then cornerback. Like that's kind
Speaker 1: of where it is, like that's the meat and potatoes.
Speaker 1: That's that's what it is. And then when we look
Speaker 1: at those other positions, you can find him I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that like, hey, I won't take a Lenifrenette or
Speaker 1: whatever someone like that, but you can find those guys
Speaker 1: in other rounds. Yeah, angried kind of what you were
Speaker 1: talking about earlier with dan Quinn and him never having
Speaker 1: been around a first round linebacker. That makes me even
Speaker 1: more confident that you can find a second or third
Speaker 1: round guy, especially if you have two second round picks.
Speaker 1: With that Byron Jones comp pick that comes in, you've
Speaker 1: got three picks of the second and the third round
Speaker 1: that Day two slot. You can pick up a linebacker there,
Speaker 1: Dave and pluck them right in the middle of that defense.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden you're cooking with gas
Speaker 1: because you go and find one of those guys like
Speaker 1: Brian's talking about that, going those finish the play, finish
Speaker 1: the tackle that are on tape that show out. That's
Speaker 1: something you haven't seen from a Cowboys perspective, maybe since
Speaker 1: you drafted Laton vander esh in the first round. But
Speaker 1: now you don't have to spend that first round pick
Speaker 1: on it. Now you don't have to do that. So Brian,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at somebody's second and third round linebackers,
Speaker 1: does that make you feel better about the fact that
Speaker 1: you can find a Day two guy rather than spend
Speaker 1: that top ten pick. What I hope is that Dan
Speaker 1: Quinn brings the same magic that he brought when you
Speaker 1: start talking about linebackers and his ability to evaluate. And
Speaker 1: let's be honest, guys, the defensive coordinator and the offensive
Speaker 1: coordinator have a lot of say in what happens with
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, we'll go back to the draft
Speaker 1: with Jalen, with Jalen Ramsey and Ezekiel Elliott. It was
Speaker 1: it was Rod Marinelli and Chris Richard that stepped up
Speaker 1: said no, take Zeke. Take Zeke. That'll help us, that'll
Speaker 1: keep us off the field. You know, they didn't fight
Speaker 1: for Jalen Ramsey, but but then again, they thought Jalen
Speaker 1: Ramsey was a safety. You know that that just kind
Speaker 1: of that shows you kind of how that thing was going.
Speaker 1: They weren't sure where they were going to play it.
Speaker 1: But the defensive coordinator carries a big stick in that room.
Speaker 1: And you know, my hope is that these coaches from Atlanta,
Speaker 1: they've got some good defensive players over the years, they've
Speaker 1: dropped it some good defensive players. I'm hopeful though, that
Speaker 1: they that they come with the right like that they're
Speaker 1: able to convey to the scouts. Hey, my scheme needs this.
Speaker 1: You know. You know last year we heard uh Mike
Speaker 1: Nolan saying, oh, we'll adapt to whatever players we have. No,
Speaker 1: you didn't, you really didn't know, you know. So I
Speaker 1: need I need evaluators. I need the scouts and the coach,
Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator. I need them on the same page.
Speaker 1: But I need him to be able to tell them, like, listen,
Speaker 1: this is why I think this guy. This is why
Speaker 1: I think core more even though we're picking at ten
Speaker 1: and he probably should be picked at fifteen to eighteen,
Speaker 1: this is why I would take him right now. You
Speaker 1: know that's the kind of I need passion from my
Speaker 1: coach to help the scouts along to figure this out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a question. Does this mean we're moving on
Speaker 1: from jay Less Smith? Is Is that what this mean?
Speaker 1: Because we've had a lot of conversation for five minutes, Oh, linebacker,
Speaker 1: and I think the evaluation. I think there's you know
Speaker 1: what is do you think about Jayles Smith and l Vee?
Speaker 1: Does he feel like he can fix him? Does he
Speaker 1: have any choice in terms of no I can move
Speaker 1: on from or no, you have to keep him at
Speaker 1: least for another year. I think that's the meeting, not
Speaker 1: the question, shameless plug, because I've actually, you know, we're
Speaker 1: kind of doing a series where we assess every position
Speaker 1: group on the roster and where it stands right now.
Speaker 1: I've I've written a lot of words about the linebacker
Speaker 1: position over the last three days. It's it's very interesting
Speaker 1: because you think about Layton vander Esh his option deadline
Speaker 1: is coming up. If the Cowboys don't pick it up,
Speaker 1: then he's only under contract for one more year. I
Speaker 1: think ultimately, I think it's gonna be heavily on how
Speaker 1: much Dan Quinn thinks he can fix Jalen. Whether he's
Speaker 1: here or not. I wouldn't be surprised either way, Like
Speaker 1: I really, I would not be surprised if he's here
Speaker 1: next year. I would not be surprised if he's gone.
Speaker 1: But either way, I just think, and then obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: Sean Lee might be done playing football all together. We'll
Speaker 1: happen to see so you could it's equally possible that
Speaker 1: all three of your top linebackers could be back, and
Speaker 1: it's equally possible that you could need to like redo
Speaker 1: the entire position. Oh, I think the Cowboys gonna ask
Speaker 1: Jalen Smith to take a pay cut. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: there's I don't think this is gonna be one of
Speaker 1: those things where they're gonna be real nice about it.
Speaker 1: They're gonna say, listen, we need you to we need
Speaker 1: you to redo your contract. And if he agrees, I
Speaker 1: think he still has a job. If he doesn't, then
Speaker 1: we need to be talking about every one of these linebackers,
Speaker 1: like we need to be talking about every one of
Speaker 1: these quarterbacks. You know. I mean that's that the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys could go. They will say one hundred different ways
Speaker 1: in this draft, and every one of them would probably
Speaker 1: help this team. And you can, you can, we could
Speaker 1: all laugh about the quarterback thing like that. That that
Speaker 1: right there is getting We're down to day, we're down
Speaker 1: to weeks now on this decision, and we might get
Speaker 1: a greed base situation here with the Cowboys. You might
Speaker 1: get Dak Prescott on a tag and have to draft
Speaker 1: his successor in order, because if they don't get a
Speaker 1: deal done, you'd be ready for him to walk, is
Speaker 1: what I is what I should say. You know, that's
Speaker 1: that's the easy way to look at it. Right now,
Speaker 1: that's the easy way to look at it. Whenever you
Speaker 1: tag him, that's what you're saying. I mean, everybody, everybody
Speaker 1: right now is dying inside because they know the Cowboys
Speaker 1: need so much help on defense that they might have
Speaker 1: to draft a quarterback to protect themselves, you know. And
Speaker 1: maybe maybe they say, you know what, we might be
Speaker 1: bad again next year and be in the top ten
Speaker 1: and and pick thin. But right now they're they're in
Speaker 1: a they're in a very much a Green Bay Packer
Speaker 1: situation when it comes to their quarterback. Ye, if they
Speaker 1: don't disagree, I think completely right, Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think they they've painted themselves into a corner where now
Speaker 1: it is almost prohibitive to give the big deal because
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen, and ultimately, like dad could get the
Speaker 1: blame for it. They finally to a long term deal,
Speaker 1: but now you don't have the stuff around him, and
Speaker 1: then he gets all the blame and Kenny carry and
Speaker 1: I do believe he is like a friend's top five
Speaker 1: player in the position. But you are going to have
Speaker 1: to reconsider, like what do you have? What can you do?
Speaker 1: All these other contracts? How do you fit them into
Speaker 1: the puzzle guess a lot. I mean, it's interesting, it
Speaker 1: would be fascinating to watch over the next three or
Speaker 1: four weeks. Could you still think? I mean, the Cowboys
Speaker 1: have got they've got till March ninth, and you know,
Speaker 1: we'll have a draft show, you know, the week of
Speaker 1: all that and stuff. I think we'll know, we'll know
Speaker 1: what direction this thing is gonna go. See, I don't
Speaker 1: think I quite agree with that. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: March ninth is the deadline, but if they tag him
Speaker 1: and then get a deal done a month later, they've
Speaker 1: got until they've got until two or three weeks before
Speaker 1: the draft. They've got until like mid April. I think
Speaker 1: that's my drop dead date because if you got to
Speaker 1: tag him to buy yourself time, that's fine, but it
Speaker 1: would be negligent to go into the draft with Dak
Speaker 1: not under a contract and not look at quarterback. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like that? Do you feel like that it's
Speaker 1: going to take them two months to sign this guy?
Speaker 1: I why would I even act like I know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen. Like it's been two years where I've
Speaker 1: been like, that's what I'm saying, That's what I'm saying
Speaker 1: my plans are Yeah, I would have believed that, oh,
Speaker 1: April ninth, we can get a deal done. But if
Speaker 1: you know, you get to negotiate hard for the next
Speaker 1: six weeks. Yeah, Oh, I agree with that. I agree
Speaker 1: with that, you've got to negotiate hard for the next
Speaker 1: six weeks. But if we get like five weeks in,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, we haven't talked, we haven't talked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get a pretty good idea that point. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And basically what I was talking about, what Brian was
Speaker 1: saying earlier, is if you tag him and he gets
Speaker 1: through the draft or gets up to the draft on
Speaker 1: that franchise tag, sure he'll be under contract for the
Speaker 1: next year, but he's gonna walk after that. You haven't
Speaker 1: had those back to back franchise tag quarterbacks. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna have Dak Prescott in twenty twenty two, and you
Speaker 1: might be forced to take your successor when you need
Speaker 1: defensive help. That that's a that's a terrible way to
Speaker 1: operate right there. Gosh, I hate that. It's one of
Speaker 1: those things. It's not something it's something that you have
Speaker 1: to do, but it's better for them to take the
Speaker 1: successor this year. You than to wait until next year
Speaker 1: because I don't even know what that quarterback class looks
Speaker 1: like next year. Early early indications are the quarterback class
Speaker 1: is not very good. That's just that's just talking to
Speaker 1: guys that just a Liberty kid. I keep hearing about
Speaker 1: the Liberty gus. Yeah, that's that's basically. I mean, Okay, Carol,
Speaker 1: I don't want to take you're crazy. Scouts are always
Speaker 1: like scouts. This guy, this guy was a fifth round
Speaker 1: pick at the start of the twenty nineteen I start,
Speaker 1: you have to think about it, just we just always
Speaker 1: have to think about it, like you have to go
Speaker 1: through and you're walking through and you're looking at the program,
Speaker 1: and hey, who's QB two. I mean, right now, the
Speaker 1: only guy that we're talking about is the Liberty guys,
Speaker 1: the only one that I've heard buzz on. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you're not. I just I don't think you can afford.
Speaker 1: You can't afford to wait because one way or another.
Speaker 1: And yes, I know the Cowboys haven't been to an
Speaker 1: NFC title game in thirty years, but they don't pick
Speaker 1: in the top ten very often. They're usually good enough
Speaker 1: to avoid that, so you can't nobody wants tack under
Speaker 1: contract more than I do. But you can't pass up
Speaker 1: an opportunity had a top ten pick, especially when there's
Speaker 1: four good quarterback maybe five good quarterbacks in the first round.
Speaker 1: All right, you can always trade for one, like who
Speaker 1: cares get one? You can get one anywhere. Yeah, just going,
Speaker 1: let's give up this, figure it out. Let's let's make
Speaker 1: a trade. Last week, if I get Miami in here.
Speaker 1: If I could have, if I could have had as
Speaker 1: many quarterbacks are as available to day in two thousand
Speaker 1: when I was working with the Cowboys, I'd still be working.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, that's crazy, but it's amazing. The two thousands,
Speaker 1: nobody wanted to give up their quarterback. Now it's like, listen,
Speaker 1: take my guy, please, think my guy, Take my guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's take our first break. We're way over time on
Speaker 1: this when we got off topic, but when we come
Speaker 1: back at Twitter twenty, it is my fault. I'm a
Speaker 1: terrible bus driver today. That's okay. I just love listening
Speaker 1: to you guys chat about quarterbacks when we come back.
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of shift in the thinking for
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys in terms of the Super Bowl results
Speaker 1: and how it affects their draft stock when we come
Speaker 1: back here on Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. There's
Speaker 1: nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor
Speaker 1: pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Varilux
Speaker 1: for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Krisol
Speaker 1: for freedom from glare. Three cutting x solutions in a
Speaker 1: single unique lens. So whatever your needs, insist on Selor
Speaker 1: visit your local slor experts and find a perfect lens
Speaker 1: for you. Seymour do Moore se lore since eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 1: Stetson hats are American made with pride right here in Texas,
Speaker 1: and Stetson is proud to be on the field with
Speaker 1: America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride
Speaker 1: two you can by purchasing your own Stetson. You can
Speaker 1: look just like how the flag guys do on field
Speaker 1: at every home game. Stetson hats the official crown of
Speaker 1: all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get
Speaker 1: yours today at Shop Dallas Cowboys dot com or at
Speaker 1: Stetson dot com. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day. I was a
Speaker 1: guy who always got the tough yards and that's why
Speaker 1: I run with John Deer today. In fact, I have
Speaker 1: a John Dear three zero twenty five E tractor that
Speaker 1: can handle any yardwork I need to do, even the
Speaker 1: tough yards way out back. So if you have one
Speaker 1: acre or a thousand, John Deer has the equipment that's
Speaker 1: just right for you. Visit a John Deer dealer today
Speaker 1: and run with us. We are the official tractor provider
Speaker 1: of your Dallas Cowboys. Here it's nineteen o eight. Don't
Speaker 1: you think we should get electricity and stop using candles?
Speaker 1: To see it night? It's just electricity lights up the
Speaker 1: room fast. It's more reliable than candles blowing out, and
Speaker 1: people seem to love it nationwide. Dare did you just
Speaker 1: run into the wall? May I have a new candle? Please? Historically,
Speaker 1: switching to new technology is a no brainer. Today it's
Speaker 1: AT and T five G fast, reliable, secure and nationwide.
Speaker 1: Switch to AT and T five G. It's not complicated.
Speaker 1: Five G requires compatible plant may not be in your area.
Speaker 1: See att dot com slash five G for you for details.
Speaker 1: Is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show? Back here
Speaker 1: with the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show here on
Speaker 1: a Tuesday morning, Bucky Brooks, Brian prod Us, David Hellman.
Speaker 1: I'm Kyle Yeomans, and time now to get into a
Speaker 1: little bit of some twitter on the twenty I believe
Speaker 1: the sounder played in the background, but if it didn't,
Speaker 1: that's okay. Aspiring journalist on Twitter asked, after watching the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, gentleman, has your hasn't changed your opinion on
Speaker 1: positional value for this upcoming draft regarding the Cowboys? And
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to David Hellman initially because you
Speaker 1: said no knee jerk reaction. I'm assuming in that first
Speaker 1: segment when you said knee jerk reaction, you were talking
Speaker 1: about taking an offensive tackle instead of some defensive talent.
Speaker 1: Do you think this has shifted the way that things
Speaker 1: kind of look for the Cowboys overall and the way
Speaker 1: that they will evaluate this draft class. No, when I
Speaker 1: said no knee jerk reaction, I just meant like, let's
Speaker 1: give Tampa Bay credit for building a really good team.
Speaker 1: Like it's not like they did something. It's not like
Speaker 1: they did something off the wall and crazy. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I said, they have good defensive tackles, they have
Speaker 1: good linebackers, they have good safeties, they have a Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame quarterback, and they upgraded the offensive line around him.
Speaker 1: So if anything, I guess the closest thing I have
Speaker 1: to a knee jerk reaction is it's hard not to
Speaker 1: watch Patrick Mahomes run for his life without his two
Speaker 1: starting tackles, and you think about, you know, Lyle missed
Speaker 1: the entire season. Tyrant has had issues for five years now.
Speaker 1: I was already open to the idea of drafting a tackle,
Speaker 1: but probably even more so now because I said this.
Speaker 1: I'd said this to Ryan on Sunday. I was like,
Speaker 1: can you imagine if the Cowboys got all the way
Speaker 1: to that game and then they didn't have Tyren or
Speaker 1: Lyell for the Super Bowl? Like I meant, you would
Speaker 1: just be sick. It would be sick to your stomach
Speaker 1: all day. So I was, like I said, I was
Speaker 1: always open to that idea, but I'm probably more open
Speaker 1: to it now than I was before the game. That's
Speaker 1: funny because I think that I think that's something that
Speaker 1: should have been talked about before. We talked about like
Speaker 1: Slater and some of those other guys potentially at number ten.
Speaker 1: But I think you have to take an offensive line,
Speaker 1: you have to consider it, and I think you have
Speaker 1: to do it a year or two early, because we've
Speaker 1: seen I mean what Martin went from being a tackle
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame to kicking inside and playing guard. I mean,
Speaker 1: like that's what you do. You're trying to get the
Speaker 1: best five that you can get, and you mix and
Speaker 1: match and put them out there because you don't want
Speaker 1: to get caught like the knctts got caught with their
Speaker 1: pants down. We're in the Super Bowl. They're playing with
Speaker 1: three guys in new positions and you can't win. And
Speaker 1: so you have to invest and the OH line and
Speaker 1: the DE line, and I think the Super Bowl really
Speaker 1: kind of brought that to light, Like, man, you better
Speaker 1: have a bunch of pass rushers that you can throw
Speaker 1: at people, and you better have an offensive line that
Speaker 1: can can protect the quarterback. Yeah, I think that. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to keep a really open mind. You can't
Speaker 1: just sit there and say they have to have defensive players,
Speaker 1: and yeah, they do need defensive players, but you have
Speaker 1: to keep your mind open about the tackle the quarterback.
Speaker 1: You have to keep the mind open about defensive tackle,
Speaker 1: a safety, a corner. So yeah, I think the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: you look at maybe if you look at the Buccaneers
Speaker 1: and the Chiefs, you realize how far away you really are.
Speaker 1: That might be the reality right there. You know that
Speaker 1: like whoa that that team? You know? And and by
Speaker 1: the way, Dallas plays both those teams next year on
Speaker 1: the road, so you know, keep that in mind. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that you're you're You've got to be open.
Speaker 1: The The Super Bowl does nothing for me except mean
Speaker 1: the season's over. Now. I got to focus on my
Speaker 1: issues and I've got a ton of them. So we're
Speaker 1: all collectively drafting or shots later at ten overall? Right now, right,
Speaker 1: what's wrong, Bucky? Why are you laughing at me? I'm
Speaker 1: laughing because you're disdaining for watching any of the football
Speaker 1: once your team is out of here. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: that you're just not She's not gonna watch and see
Speaker 1: what's going on. Just now, you just had the blinders on,
Speaker 1: and I'm just worried, Abucky Cowboys, I don't get out here. Bucky,
Speaker 1: You're you're a dear friend of mine, and you know
Speaker 1: you could have been in the Super Okay, I have
Speaker 1: Tom de Mittroff. When Tom de Mittroff was in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, Tommy Dean, I go way back. Steve Saba,
Speaker 1: we go way back. Okay, when they were in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, I didn't even know what happened until, like
Speaker 1: I didn't even watch the game. I didn't even watch
Speaker 1: the game, and I'm like, what do you do? The
Speaker 1: game is? The game is everything. I'll tell you, Like,
Speaker 1: tell you what he does, Bucky. He sits at his
Speaker 1: desk with his feet up and watch his tape like
Speaker 1: a freaking tweet. That's what I did. Hear. You're a loser, Bryan.
Speaker 1: You could be one of you could be one of
Speaker 1: my best friends. And if you lost that Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: I'd have been like, hey man, I'm sorry, but you
Speaker 1: know what, I saw a really good offensive lineman playing.
Speaker 1: Look at him. You're watching tape now, you're trying too hard.
Speaker 1: You're trying too hard to be Bowl. You didn't block anybody.
Speaker 1: Maybe you should look at this Cockow was looking at
Speaker 1: the other day. Yeah, so so funny. I do wonder though,
Speaker 1: like and looking at the Super Bowl? Are we fast
Speaker 1: enough now? Are the Cowboys fast enough now? Just from
Speaker 1: a from an overall team speed standpoint, I think that's
Speaker 1: the one thing we can talk about, like the positions.
Speaker 1: But when we turn on the tape and we look
Speaker 1: at the Chiefs and the Bucks play versus the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: what is that team speed like? And that team speed
Speaker 1: not only matters office in defense, but on special teams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you think about the explosive plays and blocking punts
Speaker 1: and big returns, do you have enough weapons to create
Speaker 1: those big opportunities because your team is fast? Hopefully that's
Speaker 1: what dan Quinn does. And you know, again there's receivers.
Speaker 1: We've talked about what was Ceedee Lamb coming out of college.
Speaker 1: He was a catch the ball and run guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't see Ceedee Lamb. I mean early in the year,
Speaker 1: we saw some big plays down the middle of the field.
Speaker 1: But I think your right book, your overall team speed
Speaker 1: is really lacking, especially on defense. Well, when you lose
Speaker 1: more worried about defense than offense. Yeah, when I was
Speaker 1: saying on offense, whenever you lose your offensive lining, you
Speaker 1: become one dimensional and you can't hold on to the
Speaker 1: football and you have a ninety million dollar running back
Speaker 1: that decides to fumble every two snaps, then yeah, it's
Speaker 1: gonna make things a little bit tough to catch and
Speaker 1: run with the football. I'm not throwing shade there at anybody.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to bring that up. The second question.
Speaker 1: Second question to here for a twitter on the twenty
Speaker 1: Christophers Day. I'll have an opinion. No, I have an opinion,
Speaker 1: trust me. Looking for an in depth take on quit
Speaker 1: he Pay, the edge rusher out of Michigan. Uh he
Speaker 1: said he saw him monk to the Cowboys at ten.
Speaker 1: Chris Davis is the one who asked this question. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I said that, but can you ask
Speaker 1: the guys about Quitty Pay and what they thought about him?
Speaker 1: The one word I had whenever I watched Quitty Kay
Speaker 1: was dense. I thought he was very dense on the edge.
Speaker 1: He's not your normal long, lanky outside of the tackle
Speaker 1: edge rusher. He's more of kind of a power guy,
Speaker 1: right Ryan, you know absolutely. I mean he's a funny
Speaker 1: built guy too. It's it was, it was really weird.
Speaker 1: I mean he's listed his six three and he doesn't
Speaker 1: look that on tape, you know, and but he's got
Speaker 1: it looked. The shorter arms and stuff like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like the way he can. I think he can
Speaker 1: cover some ground when he when he when he runs,
Speaker 1: and I think he can redirect, and I do think
Speaker 1: he's got some passers moves and you could play him
Speaker 1: on either side, which was something that I was kind
Speaker 1: of impressed with. But I thought that there were times
Speaker 1: where he really struggled to get off blocks. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to be the scout that says, oh, because
Speaker 1: the shorter arms, he can't get off blocks, but there
Speaker 1: were snaps where he would get tied up, and I
Speaker 1: thought that that was kind of a struggle for him
Speaker 1: to have to disengage. But other than that, the ability
Speaker 1: to run, the ability to chase, the ability to get
Speaker 1: to the football, the redirection, all that stuff to capture
Speaker 1: the edge. I think that's all legitimate stuff though, But
Speaker 1: his body type was really strange to me watching him
Speaker 1: plant team. I don't think he's a long, rangy guy
Speaker 1: at all for being, you know, sixty three, two hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy one pounds. That's funny because I have the
Speaker 1: John Wooden quote in my head. I'm like, don't confuse
Speaker 1: his activity for achievement. I think he's active, and I
Speaker 1: think he runs around and he plays with great effort.
Speaker 1: But I wrote in my notes, I don't see any
Speaker 1: necessarily impact he gets garbage sacks. He gets those things,
Speaker 1: but I don't view him as an impact player. And
Speaker 1: I'm a little more partial to production, particularly sack production,
Speaker 1: because I believe it translates. And he has eleven and
Speaker 1: a half career sacks, which is fine. But I never
Speaker 1: found a game where I'm like or series of games
Speaker 1: where like, man, this dude is dominating, like you need
Speaker 1: to pay attention to him, you need to slide to
Speaker 1: protection that way because you can't stop him. I found
Speaker 1: it more like, oh, okay, that's that's a nice play,
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the type like, hey, let me go
Speaker 1: into the offensive room and say, hey, we better have
Speaker 1: a plan for dealing with pay And I don't know,
Speaker 1: like if I'm gonna take him at those prices where
Speaker 1: you have to take him into top ten, man, I
Speaker 1: better feel like I'm getting a guy that can really
Speaker 1: impact the game from time he steps in. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: told you mean, I like what you're saying that, Bucky,
Speaker 1: because I looked at the last note. I said there's
Speaker 1: some hit and miss to his game, and that that
Speaker 1: that bothers me. If you're talking about a top ten
Speaker 1: guy and you're telling me there's hit and miss to
Speaker 1: his game. I don't want any part of that, and
Speaker 1: I really really don't. I just look at a like
Speaker 1: pass rusher, especially like I just look at resume, and
Speaker 1: I know, you know, there's always it's a position where
Speaker 1: upside means so much. Some guys are on a longer trajectory.
Speaker 1: That's fine for a top ten pick. I'm real nervous
Speaker 1: about what he accomplished in college, you know, And that's
Speaker 1: that's just a valuable, valuable pick that I'm not willing
Speaker 1: to take that big of a gamble on, especially when
Speaker 1: you consider that there are way more proven commodities, you know,
Speaker 1: like like the cornerbacks, for just as an easy example
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that risk. Just take
Speaker 1: Kyle Pitts. You'll be okay. But hey, Dave, I will
Speaker 1: give I will give you this because it comes from
Speaker 1: Bryan's friend and I learned this a long time ago.
Speaker 1: Azzi Knewsom said, when you're looking at pass rushers, always
Speaker 1: pay attention to sack production because they've done studies. Guys
Speaker 1: who sacked the quarterback in college, they sacked the guy
Speaker 1: in the pros And it doesn't matter about body type
Speaker 1: or any of those things. When you see a guy
Speaker 1: who has sustained sack production over multiple years, they do
Speaker 1: it to Eli Sudes would be the exams was a
Speaker 1: great example of that. He also he also would give
Speaker 1: you Elvis Duomerville. When Elmas Duomerville came out of Louisville,
Speaker 1: he had twenty sacks, he had a million sacks. He
Speaker 1: was short, like six foot, but he always got to
Speaker 1: the quarterback. And so that's one of the things when
Speaker 1: you talk about the resume, look at the resume over
Speaker 1: multiple years. Those are the guys that typically do it
Speaker 1: because they know how to get them to the ground.
Speaker 1: I would throw tackles for loss in as well, and
Speaker 1: I yes, all all of the matters. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: just kind of scares me. I like that John woodn't
Speaker 1: quote you throw out there, though, Bucky. I think that's
Speaker 1: a good way to look at a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes to the terrible the guy from North
Speaker 1: Carolina with a great basketball history has to quote, I mean,
Speaker 1: I got Dean smell stuff in the bag. I'm just
Speaker 1: waiting at stuff. I mean, I got I got that.
Speaker 1: I got this stuff in the bag. I took a
Speaker 1: basketball class and Collins he told me that the Kansidy
Speaker 1: Chiefs shouldn't have done what they did in Week twelve
Speaker 1: against Tampa Bay when they let them close the gap.
Speaker 1: He said, you gotta hammer people because if you let
Speaker 1: people feel like they have a chance, the next time
Speaker 1: they face you, they entered the game, we're more confidence.
Speaker 1: So that's why you blow them out. Dean Smith. Dean Smith,
Speaker 1: Dean Smith, absolutely blow it out. So I'm gonna run
Speaker 1: up the score, guy, run it up. Oh hell yeah,
Speaker 1: every time. Anytime you can. Interesting, dude, he held the
Speaker 1: boat for like twelve minutes game one time. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie to us. Guys turned into Bucky and Brian
Speaker 1: trying to roast each other. Yeah, it's but I love it.
Speaker 1: And also I've always I've always highly respected Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 1: But when he said he had Dean stuff or Dean
Speaker 1: Smith stuff in the bag and then he actually brought
Speaker 1: one out immediately, like, I have never respected you more
Speaker 1: than in this very moment of talking about Dean Smith
Speaker 1: and the coaches and the quotes that you just pulled out.
Speaker 1: That was fantastic. Okay, back to draft. So Jay on
Speaker 1: Twitter asked us about Hafunga. Is that how you say
Speaker 1: his name the safety out of USC. He wanted our
Speaker 1: thoughts on and fun guy. I don't I need to
Speaker 1: look up pronunciations. I haven't gotten to that part of
Speaker 1: my study yet. Hockey. You got a thought on him,
Speaker 1: because I'm working my way towards him. I have a thought,
Speaker 1: but but my thing on safeties right now. Man, if
Speaker 1: you can't hit and running cover, it's hard to have
Speaker 1: a guy that is kind of one dimensional unless you
Speaker 1: have a decordinator who has a plan. He's instinctive and
Speaker 1: he's active, but when you look at the guys that
Speaker 1: are playing that are playing and making plays in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: he's not in that realm in terms of being a
Speaker 1: ball hawk or those guys. And so I don't know,
Speaker 1: like if you want to maybe take him and kind
Speaker 1: of drop him down and do some things in the
Speaker 1: box like we've seen guys do with like having a
Speaker 1: third safety on the field as a big nickel or whatever, like,
Speaker 1: maybe you can do that, But in terms of being
Speaker 1: a center fielder or a playmaker, that's not what he does.
Speaker 1: And so there's a role for everybody if your defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator has those kind of tricks in the bag. But
Speaker 1: he's a good player, but I wouldn't put him in
Speaker 1: that upper tier where you're like, hey, you get a
Speaker 1: difference macause someone who's make plays on the ball, I think,
Speaker 1: and I haven't. I haven't watched him yet for full disclosure,
Speaker 1: but just as a general thought, I feel like in
Speaker 1: any draft there's only like three to five safeties that
Speaker 1: you're like, he's instinctive, he plays the ball, he can
Speaker 1: play free safety, he can do this, he can do that,
Speaker 1: and then everybody else is just a guy you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like he can do some stuff in the box and tackle.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I don't mean this as a slight
Speaker 1: but just what you just said reminds me of Donovan Wilson,
Speaker 1: who the Cowboys you know, found in the sixth round
Speaker 1: of the draft. And that's what makes it so frustrating
Speaker 1: is if, especially you know, for the Cowboys who have
Speaker 1: been unwilling to do it, if you're not willing to
Speaker 1: invest like a top fifty or sixty pick, you're probably
Speaker 1: not getting that guy. Like those guys go high in
Speaker 1: the draft for reasons because those those instincts are not
Speaker 1: easily found. I really I'll tell you that one guy
Speaker 1: watched the other day was the Florida State kid. Uh
Speaker 1: is that how you say national d And yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what, man, I six three, two hundred and
Speaker 1: twelve pounds. I saw a finisher there. I saw a
Speaker 1: guy that was around the ball. I saw I got.
Speaker 1: You know, if they need a true free safety type
Speaker 1: of a player, that's kind of like who I'm looking
Speaker 1: for right now because I kind of feel good about
Speaker 1: Donovan Wilson. Ye, but I'm looking for a guy that's
Speaker 1: got some range, it's got some hit, it's got some finish,
Speaker 1: that's got some ball skills. That's the kind of guy
Speaker 1: that I think the Cowboys, I think when when Dan
Speaker 1: quinn is he's already sat down and looked at his defense,
Speaker 1: he's going to push hard for these scouts to find
Speaker 1: him a real free safety. So it's funny Brian like
Speaker 1: and thinking about DQ's history. So there are two different
Speaker 1: types of safeties and he kind of values them differently.
Speaker 1: He took Keyan O'Neill and Ianna Keiana Live was a
Speaker 1: guy who was a more of a boxed every player,
Speaker 1: a big hitter, big guy, tough guy against a run.
Speaker 1: And then you know he has made converted corners into safeties.
Speaker 1: He took Demante Kazi from safety State who had a
Speaker 1: million interceptions, and he moved them to free safety. It
Speaker 1: took two years for that process to kind of come
Speaker 1: to fruition, but he started back there. Brian Powell was
Speaker 1: another guy that is playback there. So it will be
Speaker 1: interesting to see one how you've used Donovan Wilson. Does
Speaker 1: he view Donovan Wilson as that guy that is hovering
Speaker 1: in the box and now do I need to go
Speaker 1: get the ornament on top of the Christmas tree? If
Speaker 1: he does that, then it takes you a different direction.
Speaker 1: We talked about Richie Grant here like over and over
Speaker 1: and over again. So then what you're doing is you're
Speaker 1: looking for those true center fielder types. And if you
Speaker 1: ask me my Druthers, I would like to look into
Speaker 1: their background and make sure that they have baseball in
Speaker 1: their background because then I know they can judge the
Speaker 1: ball and do those things or whatever. So it's just
Speaker 1: the evaluation the self scout this year is more important
Speaker 1: than ever because how DQ views was currently on the
Speaker 1: roster will shift how the Cowboys go about doing their
Speaker 1: work in the draft. Can I ask a real quick question, sure,
Speaker 1: just real short answer guys to know where do you
Speaker 1: guys think that Patrick Peterson from Arizona could play free safety?
Speaker 1: I think you read the Twitter mentions before the show too. No, No,
Speaker 1: I just because I said it. I said it yesterday
Speaker 1: on the show because I remember Charles Woodson when Charles
Speaker 1: yes quarter to safety, and I thought Bill parcels about it.
Speaker 1: But I remember I just wanted real quick yes or no.
Speaker 1: I mean, Colin know you got a show to do here.
Speaker 1: I just wanted yes or no. Could Patrick Peterson transfer
Speaker 1: to safety? I think he could yes. And I actually
Speaker 1: thought when he was coming out of LSU, I thought
Speaker 1: that's where he was best suitan am. My evaluation was wrong.
Speaker 1: I never viewed him kind of like how he was
Speaker 1: viewed because I thought he has some issues on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: But I thought the best things that he did were
Speaker 1: playing the ball and when he got the ball in
Speaker 1: his hands. And I think the great players that make
Speaker 1: that transition from corner to say to you talk about
Speaker 1: Charles Wilson, Rod Woodson, the number one thing that they
Speaker 1: have tremendous instincts and balls and if he's tough enough
Speaker 1: to make tackles, that's the thing that you would have
Speaker 1: to ask, But I absolutely believe that he's smart enough
Speaker 1: and instinct enough to be a contributor at safety. Not
Speaker 1: only that, but I think he's got I mean, he's
Speaker 1: got prototypical size too, Like he's I mean he's a
Speaker 1: big guy. He's like six one two ten um, so
Speaker 1: he's got the size to do it. I think. I
Speaker 1: just wonder, and I would love to see that for
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons. On top of him being an
Speaker 1: LSU guy, like he's his high character, a player as
Speaker 1: there is in the NFL, he's got a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame resume, so he'd be a hell of a guy
Speaker 1: to coach up the rest of your secondary I wonder.
Speaker 1: And I don't know this, And obviously Charles Woodson was
Speaker 1: not too proud to make that switch. But for a
Speaker 1: guy like Pat Pete, who is, you know, a three
Speaker 1: time All Pro, eight time pro bowler, is he willing
Speaker 1: to accept that maybe he can't play outside anymore. I
Speaker 1: don't know that. Would you sell it, you sell it,
Speaker 1: you sell it differently, I would say Charles woods Ye,
Speaker 1: Charles his career because of it. You sell it differently.
Speaker 1: So what you do is you bring them in and
Speaker 1: you say we got plans for you to be a
Speaker 1: big nickel, So we're gonna put you in the slot.
Speaker 1: We can put you in the box because your instincts
Speaker 1: enable you to make more plays and then you start
Speaker 1: sliding them into safety. He get a couple of reps
Speaker 1: here at free or whatever. So it's an evolutionists really
Speaker 1: being able to paint the picture for here's how you
Speaker 1: going to be able to play another five or six years.
Speaker 1: We're gonna put you in a position to be around
Speaker 1: the ball. Yeah. Two things that might that might play
Speaker 1: that might play it at recch tie it it is
Speaker 1: because with the draft, Yeah, somebody might say that's what
Speaker 1: they want to do instead of drafting one of these
Speaker 1: safeties that might be a thought in the offseason. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here for it. And two things on that. One, Bucky's
Speaker 1: getting every Cowboys fan excited by just talking about Charles
Speaker 1: Woodson and talking about these guys that have made the
Speaker 1: switch from defensive back or from cornerback to safety. And two,
Speaker 1: Brian never be afraid of asking a question because it
Speaker 1: allows me to be an analyst from time to time
Speaker 1: on this show. I love it. Whenever you ask, You're
Speaker 1: always here. This is it's your show. This isn't my show.
Speaker 1: I'm just you to drive the bus. But let's go
Speaker 1: and take our second break. When we come back, we're
Speaker 1: gonna ask a couple of questions, one that includes the
Speaker 1: name Tiny Jim on Twitter because I just want to
Speaker 1: talk about that. When we come back here on the
Speaker 1: Dallas Showboys dot Com Draft Show, we're back in the
Speaker 1: Tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new
Speaker 1: Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen Doctor
Speaker 1: pepet and Cream sodas he a new Combonelet's music to
Speaker 1: my ears. Okay, doctor time, music to my ears and
Speaker 1: mouth New Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda, Dela. There's nothing
Speaker 1: as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers
Speaker 1: ways to make lenses as unique as you. Varilux for
Speaker 1: super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Krasol for
Speaker 1: freedom from glare. Three cutting edge solutions and a single
Speaker 1: unique lens. So whatever your needs, insist on selor visit
Speaker 1: your local essel or experts and find a perfect lens
Speaker 1: for you to see more. Do more. SLOR the Cowboys Way,
Speaker 1: where sixteen Hall of Famers and five championships shows us
Speaker 1: what success looks like where turkey is always the second
Speaker 1: best part of Thanksgiving Day, where we are all defined
Speaker 1: by one single thing, the star, where we as fans
Speaker 1: know it's our job to keep the tradition going. Bank
Speaker 1: of America is proud to be the official bank of
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys and to support the quest of living
Speaker 1: life the Cowboys Way. Copyright twenty twenty Bank of America Corporation. Dear,
Speaker 1: it's nineteen oh eight. Don't you think we should get
Speaker 1: electricity and stop using candles to see it night? It's
Speaker 1: just electricity lights up the room fast, It's more reliable
Speaker 1: than candles blowing out, and people seem to love it nationwide. Well, ken,
Speaker 1: so dare did you just run into the wall? I
Speaker 1: have a new kindle please. Historically, switching to new technology
Speaker 1: is a no brainer. Today it's AT and T five
Speaker 1: G fast, reliable, secure and nationwide. Switch to a T
Speaker 1: and T five G. It's not complicated. Five G requires
Speaker 1: compatible plant may not be in your area. See att
Speaker 1: dot com slash five G for you for details. Is
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Final moments here
Speaker 1: of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show here on
Speaker 1: this Tuesday, be sure to join this group every Tuesday
Speaker 1: ten am Central Time. You could catch the other group
Speaker 1: Thursdays at ten am Central Time with Jeff Cavanaugh, Dame Brugler,
Speaker 1: and Kevin kat Turner. And since we only have a
Speaker 1: couple of minutes left, I thought I would pull one
Speaker 1: more question from Twitter on the twenty and we're gonna
Speaker 1: go to Jake, who always asked fantastic, fantastic questions, But
Speaker 1: this one stuck out to me today because it had
Speaker 1: Tiny Gym in it. What does brought us and tiny
Speaker 1: Jim think the honey Badger set to Tom Brady to
Speaker 1: get him so fired up in the Super Bowl, probably
Speaker 1: said I'm not afraid of you and some expletives to
Speaker 1: go along with it. Think what I really want to say,
Speaker 1: But it's a family program. I think he told Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think he told Tom. He said, man, the crawfish
Speaker 1: season early is the crawfish are small, and he was
Speaker 1: just stop was at it and he was letting Tom
Speaker 1: know that. He goes, Man, he goes, Tom, I ain't
Speaker 1: telling you, man, these crawfish are small. Starting out, Man,
Speaker 1: we gotta stop this. And Tom took offense to that
Speaker 1: because Tom likes small Crawlfish. So all due respect, the
Speaker 1: Bucks kicked the Chief's ass. They obviously deserve to win
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. But like that sequence over the final
Speaker 1: five minutes before halftime was ridiculous, Like Mike Evans flopped
Speaker 1: for that big dpi, the DPI on Tyron Matthew in
Speaker 1: the end zone or holding whatever the call was, Like
Speaker 1: that was utter crap. And then Brady chased Tyron Matthew
Speaker 1: halfway across the field to get in his face. And
Speaker 1: Tyron's the one that gets flagged. Like that was just
Speaker 1: the epitome of Tom getting every call he wants. And
Speaker 1: I hated it. I'll tell you what though, Tyrn looks
Speaker 1: right what happened to him because Tom had to text
Speaker 1: him and apologize. But the thing about it is, if
Speaker 1: I'm Tyron Matthew, I'm like, listen, man, you won the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Get your champagne smelling breath out of my face.
Speaker 1: You know I don't need you apologizing to me, you know,
Speaker 1: And but you know, evidently you know Tyron is a
Speaker 1: fiery player. We all know that. We saw him getting
Speaker 1: into it on the sidelines with Steve Spagnola. I mean,
Speaker 1: he is a he is like listen. If you don't
Speaker 1: call this defense, we are going to get killed today,
Speaker 1: you know. And I mean, and that's the way Tyron is.
Speaker 1: He is a fiery sob and we all love him
Speaker 1: for it. You know. You like you saw what Spagnullah did.
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, okay, turn around and leave. That's the
Speaker 1: best thing you could do with Tyron. Let him sit
Speaker 1: there and lose his mind on the sidelines, you know.
Speaker 1: But you know that he's going to play every play hard.
Speaker 1: And again, the fact that Brady had to apologize, I
Speaker 1: think Tom probably said something that really pissed him off.
Speaker 1: I'm sure of it. I felt like this was a
Speaker 1: very emotional game for Kansas City. I felt like they
Speaker 1: were emotionally written. Running anyway, I can't. I have a
Speaker 1: true belief that the events that occurred on Thursday certainly
Speaker 1: impacted them, probably beyond because a team that has already
Speaker 1: been to the Super Bowl once, they acted like they
Speaker 1: were the newbies. Yeah, they termed it from an emotional standpoint,
Speaker 1: as opposed to the way that Tim Bay Buccaneers conducted themselves.
Speaker 1: That's crazy to think about, but that's exactly what it
Speaker 1: looked like. It looked like the Chiefs were overemotional and
Speaker 1: that I mean, they came out flat in the first place,
Speaker 1: but then they kind of overcompensated for it, and they
Speaker 1: overdid it kind of toward the halftime break, and then
Speaker 1: of course we saw kind of the craziness that Dave
Speaker 1: Hellman was talking about just a couple moments ago. But
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for us here on the
Speaker 1: Draft Show, as always presented by Miller Lighte. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Aaron Gonzalez and Chris b in the background in
Speaker 1: the show. For Brian brought us, for Bucky Brooks, and
Speaker 1: for David Helman. I'm Kyle Helman. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week on the Draft Show. This
Speaker 1: has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.