WEBVTT - The A&G Replay Monday Hour Three

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong, Joe Getty Armstrong.

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<v Speaker 2>And Jettie and he Armstrong and Getty Strong.

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<v Speaker 3>President now claiming quote some progress in the effort to

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<v Speaker 3>end the war in Ukraine, saying he thinks Putin quote

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<v Speaker 3>has had enough, but Putin giving no indications Russia is

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<v Speaker 3>any closer to a ceasefire. President Trump now saying he

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<v Speaker 3>will leave it up to Ukraine and Russia to negotiate

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<v Speaker 3>for now.

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<v Speaker 2>What about the Putin call? Remember we had a clip

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<v Speaker 2>of that? What was that about? Show years ago? Show

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<v Speaker 2>the Putin call? That's from like eight years ago, So

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember that at the very beginning of Trump one. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>any who, Trump was on the phone with Vladimir Putin

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<v Speaker 2>for about two hours yesterday, and the takeaway seems to

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<v Speaker 2>be I'm gonna let them work it out. Which where

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<v Speaker 2>does that leave things? It leaves it as a win

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<v Speaker 2>for Putin. I think yes, although the ball is in

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's court because he has not said, at least as

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<v Speaker 2>of yet, Okay, if you're going to let them work

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<v Speaker 2>that out, does that mean them working it out while

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<v Speaker 2>we continue to give a tremendous amount of aid, intelligence

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<v Speaker 2>aid maybe being the most important to Ukraine or not,

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<v Speaker 2>Because if it's or not, it's a big deal. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like those of us who would like to

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<v Speaker 4>see the US backing Ukraine are digging through about our

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<v Speaker 4>fifteenth pile of manure looking for the pony in Trump's negotiations,

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<v Speaker 4>just this. Maybe he's got this up his sleeve, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>feeling or hope.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just it's been dashed over and over again. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>he does have to go one way or the other.

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<v Speaker 2>We are either going to continue to back Ukraine the

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<v Speaker 2>way we have for three years or not. And if

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<v Speaker 2>we're not, that's a major change. I think it's more

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<v Speaker 2>likely that one happens. Will he announce it or will

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<v Speaker 2>it will it just become evident at some point, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, after this period of Zelensky in Ukraine and

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<v Speaker 2>Europe doing everything conceivable conceivable to make.

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<v Speaker 4>It clear we want peace too, We're with you on this,

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<v Speaker 4>and putin never giving a single sign that he has.

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<v Speaker 2>Any interest in Trump's piece too.

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<v Speaker 4>No, if it if the US policy becomes well and

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<v Speaker 4>you all are on your own, we're not going to

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<v Speaker 4>support a Ukraine well.

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<v Speaker 2>Then we've but it's not a nothing we've cided with

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<v Speaker 2>right now. In my opinion, I know one hundred that's

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<v Speaker 2>exactly my point. Yeah, And what seemed to be the

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<v Speaker 2>lean is indeed coming true. It was it was less

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<v Speaker 2>than Putin showing you wasn't interested in peace right now.

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<v Speaker 2>He gave Trump a long lecture about why Ukraine belongs

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<v Speaker 2>to Russia, and he said this will not end until

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<v Speaker 2>the underlying problems are solved. Well, the underlying problems will

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<v Speaker 2>not be solved until he has Ukraine correct. Yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>As Rich Lowry writes in The National Review, the play

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<v Speaker 4>for the Kremlin is obvious here. It wants to keep

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<v Speaker 4>pinching ahead with territorial gains, and if it continues to

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<v Speaker 4>string along the negotiations, has to hope that Trump tires

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<v Speaker 4>of the whole thing and cuts off USA to Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 4>That would reward Putin's intransigent with an important diplomatic victory

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<v Speaker 4>is split between the US and Europe and a chance

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<v Speaker 4>to make major advances against an increasingly hard pressed Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 4>And the only reference really to Trump being tired of

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<v Speaker 4>Putin and understanding that he's being played was that reference

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<v Speaker 4>to Putin's tapping me along.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean to.

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<v Speaker 4>Come out of the call yesterday and say, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 4>think we made progress.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know who that is.

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<v Speaker 5>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Jd Vance presented it as as well, if you guys

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<v Speaker 2>aren't interested, then hey, we're out. As if that is

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<v Speaker 2>a actually a neutral position. That is not a neutral position,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a taking the side of Russian position. So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if they're just trying, if they're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>fool people by presenting it is like we're just staying

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<v Speaker 2>neutral on this or what. So the ball is first off,

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<v Speaker 2>I think in Trump's court, but then absolutely in Europe's

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<v Speaker 2>court as they got to figure out what to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So they had a big meeting over the weekend of

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<v Speaker 2>European leaders with a couple of interesting things that came

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<v Speaker 2>out of it. A big defense meeting of the Germany,

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<v Speaker 2>the big people Germany, Britain, France, poland a couple of things.

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<v Speaker 2>They announced. Germany is going to lift their prohibition on

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear energy that they've had since World War Two, so

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<v Speaker 2>they are going to, like France, start using nuclear energy

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<v Speaker 2>so that they don't have to buy energy from Russia.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a pretty big deal economically for Russia. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they a so announced in that meeting that Russia will

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<v Speaker 2>does not present NATO a dilemma in five years like

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<v Speaker 2>had previously been thought if the war were to end soon,

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<v Speaker 2>but could within a year, like they could be back

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<v Speaker 2>up to speed enough within a year to present NATO

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<v Speaker 2>a real dilemma of what do we do now? If

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<v Speaker 2>they move on Estonia, they would be strong enough. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what the European countries announced over the weekend. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I really liked this quote that came out of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think from the leader of Poland. Russia has been

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<v Speaker 2>playing hockey for years. We are not going to figure

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<v Speaker 2>skate our way out of this.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh that's some good ice sport metaphor slinging there, sir.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thatam well done. That went with also one of

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<v Speaker 2>the leaders saying the years of two percent funding of

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<v Speaker 2>our military are over. It's going to have to be

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<v Speaker 2>more like five percent. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>There are days I wish we had unlimited time for

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<v Speaker 4>this sort of thing because it's so interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>I have all sorts of interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>Well I suppose you all will be the judge of

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<v Speaker 4>that when I delivered it, but I found it really

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<v Speaker 4>really intriguing analysis of Europe and everything that's wrong with it.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the Russia attack on Ukraine following the annexation

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<v Speaker 4>of Crimea, and the attack on Georgia and everything else

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<v Speaker 4>has has.

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<v Speaker 2>And Germany continuing to buy oil from Russia after that happened,

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<v Speaker 2>and all those kinds of things, well, right, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's finally gotten to the point that it's shaken the dopey,

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<v Speaker 2>dopey Euros out of their torpor, their their their sleepiness,

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<v Speaker 2>their fantasy land that they've been living in for the

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<v Speaker 2>past a bunch of years after you know, the US

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<v Speaker 2>security umbrella and enabled them to invest vast sums of

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<v Speaker 2>money into welfare states and socialism and the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would I.

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<v Speaker 4>Would like to issue a hammering indictment against them for

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<v Speaker 4>all of that crap.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think they're right about Russia and Ukraine. We're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to figure skate our way out of this. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. Here's the takeaway.

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<v Speaker 4>And this was going to be the takeaway after I

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<v Speaker 4>built a case over many, many minutes, but I'll give

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<v Speaker 4>you the takeaway. We need to work every day as

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<v Speaker 4>a country to not become Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are a couple of examples of a.

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<v Speaker 4>Great piece by Walter Russell Mead about why democracy is

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<v Speaker 4>in retreat, and he cites several cases in Europe about

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<v Speaker 4>anybody who does not go along with the very very

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<v Speaker 4>mainstream view of who ought to get elected and what

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<v Speaker 4>policies ought to be passed is decried as undemocratic and dangerous,

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<v Speaker 4>like the AfD party in Germany. And I could go

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<v Speaker 4>into detail on that. The more I learned, the more

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<v Speaker 4>interested I get. But their definition of democracy is the

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<v Speaker 4>results I want, and anything that challenges that is swept aside.

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<v Speaker 4>Like the AfD ought to be in an alliance with

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<v Speaker 4>the party that won the most seats. It's obvious the

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<v Speaker 4>efforts to keep them out because of a few crack

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<v Speaker 4>pots and being a little soft on Russia or whatever

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<v Speaker 4>is just it's twisting the German political system into knots

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<v Speaker 4>were sucsessed with it.

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<v Speaker 2>The men declared a terrorist organization or whatever so people

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<v Speaker 2>can listen to their phone calls and read their emails.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, yes, but actually, as long as we're talking about

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<v Speaker 4>this is let me click over.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's right there.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So last week the German government officially designated the

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<v Speaker 4>opposition party AfD as a confirmed extremist organization. The announcement

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<v Speaker 4>came from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution,

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<v Speaker 4>their domestic intelligence agency, blah blah blah. Then on Wednesday

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<v Speaker 4>they abruptly withdrew the extremist label. They will now monitor

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<v Speaker 4>the party only as a suspected case, which still allows

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<v Speaker 4>some surveillance in a way Americans would find repugnant, but

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<v Speaker 4>under much stricter judicial oversight. And somebody leaked the report

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<v Speaker 4>and it reveals that the evidence against the AfD consisted

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<v Speaker 4>not of plans for violence or insurrection, but just controversial

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<v Speaker 4>rhetoric and deeply nationalist views, none of which should have

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<v Speaker 4>triggered that designation. So it was the quote unquote mainstream

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<v Speaker 4>powers that be trying to label as extremist anybody who

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<v Speaker 4>dared shake their hold on power, which is exactly what

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<v Speaker 4>I was driving at. Their definition of democracy is democracy

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<v Speaker 4>with the right results, and that's terrible. The other thing

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<v Speaker 4>I really wanted to talk about is the Wall Street

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<v Speaker 4>Journal had a great piece about how huge tech is

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<v Speaker 4>in the world economy right now, technology in general, and

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<v Speaker 4>how tiny.

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<v Speaker 2>Europe's share of it is.

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<v Speaker 4>The EU rivals, I mean, it's it's in the same

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<v Speaker 4>weight class more or less. If you take it as

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<v Speaker 4>a whole, the US economy and the Chinese economy, it's

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<v Speaker 4>a juggernaut. But you want to talk tech, Oh, it's sad,

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<v Speaker 4>it's pathetic. Apple's market value is bigger than the entire

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<v Speaker 4>German stock market, for instance. There's no Google, there's no Amazon,

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<v Speaker 4>there's no Meta. In Europe, there's nothing even slightly close.

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<v Speaker 4>And this Journal article goes into depth and has a

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<v Speaker 4>bunch of different examples of native born tech people, German

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<v Speaker 4>tech people who brought what they learned back from Silicon

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<v Speaker 4>Valley to Europe and were immediately crushed by strict labor laws,

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<v Speaker 4>a risk averse business culture, suffocating regulations, smaller pool of

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<v Speaker 4>venture capital, lackluster economic growth, no demographic growth, and said no,

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<v Speaker 4>and back to California they went, or other places. Yeah

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<v Speaker 4>and so, and you know that list. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 4>hit it one more time and we freemar marketers. So

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<v Speaker 4>hold old dragon fans. I know we're sad. And then

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<v Speaker 4>we ought to have industrial planning in tariffs and the

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<v Speaker 4>rest of it. But Europe is crushed by a timid

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<v Speaker 4>and risk averse business culture, strict labor laws, suffocating regulations,

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<v Speaker 4>smaller pool of venture capital, and lackluster economic growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't become Europe.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what we as a country need to repeat to

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<v Speaker 4>ourselves every morning. You gotta make your bed. It's a

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<v Speaker 4>small act of discipline and positive something or other. I

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<v Speaker 4>believe in it very much, and say, let's not become

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<v Speaker 4>Europe today.

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<v Speaker 2>Like when you get up in the morning, I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a good person today or whatever your mantra is, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do kindness, whatever, do God's will today

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<v Speaker 2>and stay positive. Let's not become Europe today.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, we're going to build a utopia through a million regulation.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. Hour two. I'll get into a little of what

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<v Speaker 2>I pulled out of the first part of Jake Tapper's

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<v Speaker 2>book that I started reading last night when I was

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<v Speaker 2>in bed again unintentionally hilarious, along with some interesting nuggets

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<v Speaker 2>about what was going on there. It's the biggest failure

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<v Speaker 2>of media in our nation's history, and it should not

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<v Speaker 2>just disappear as a minor thing. Luckily it has not

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<v Speaker 2>been for at least the last couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 6>Jack Armstrong and Joe The Armstrong and Getty Show, The

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<v Speaker 6>Armstrong and Getty Show.

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<v Speaker 2>So I watched the Minecraft movie over the weekend with

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<v Speaker 2>my son Henry, and I was about to talk about it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought I should look up a little of

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<v Speaker 2>how successful this movie was to back up my premise,

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<v Speaker 2>and I googled it first. Then I remembered what you

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<v Speaker 2>keep saying, No, you got to use the chat GP two.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to get out of a habit of googling

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<v Speaker 2>and go to chat GPT. The answer I got on

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<v Speaker 2>chat GPT about I just asked chat GPT, was the

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<v Speaker 2>Minecraft movie a financial success? It's answer so much better

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<v Speaker 2>and thorough than googling it, I mean, not even close.

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<v Speaker 2>So I gotta get out of the habit of googling. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>a Minecraft movie has made almost a billion dollars worldwide

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<v Speaker 2>after a budget to make it of only one hundred

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and fifty million dollars, which I gotta believe all of

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 2>the filming of the acting of that movie could have

0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.560
<v Speaker 2>been done in an afternoon probably. I mean, there wasn't

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.560
<v Speaker 2>much to it, and it was all so much was

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 2>green screen. It was all CGI stuff and everything like that.

0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>And like I mentioned, Jack Black, what an interesting dude.

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know is he married or not. I've seen

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 2>him in various interviews. He's certainly not trying to impress chicks.

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>He wears ill fitting clothes, he doesn't wash his face

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 2>or coma's hair. He rolls in, does his line's brilliantly

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.160
<v Speaker 2>because he's really good, and and uh collects his money

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.079
<v Speaker 2>and goes home. What an interesting thing that is? What

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>movie star has never wanted to care how they look?

0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Like Jack Black, he cames getting fatter and greasier anyway.

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you ain't gonna be fat if you want,

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe you think that's part of your appeal. You can

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>wash your face AnyWho. The Minecraft movie, first of all,

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 2>way better than I expected it to be. I thought

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 2>it was. It was only an hour forty five, but

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I thought, uh, I thought this is gonna be kind

0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of tough to sit through. And it was quite entertaining,

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 2>pretty dang funny by the end it had it reminded

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>me of like all your Lord of the Rings movies. Okay,

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 2>another giant fight sequence. I just I can't do fight

0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 2>sequences like a lot of people can, apparently endlessly. I

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>get it. But my main takeaway was, and if I

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 2>was rich, I would start if like really like Elon

0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>rich I would come up with this idea today. It

0:14:53.960 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>was basically a series of popular memes that young people

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 2>get strung together so that everybody could laugh together about Hey,

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I get this meme and feel part of something. That's

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 2>what it seemed like to me. And I'll bet you

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 2>could put one of those out once a month of

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 2>just whatever the most recent hot memes were, right, make

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>it like ninety minutes long. It's just a series of

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>meme jokes that every teenager gets and things to the hilarious,

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and it would be super popular because that's basically what

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the Minecraft movie was. So just a recognition slash belonging fest, yeah,

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.880
<v Speaker 2>because other things aren't really working, but partially because this

0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 2>is a reason to be together in the theater. It

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 2>is fun to recognize the memes together. It was clear

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 2>from my older son when he went and saw it

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 2>in the theater that that was a lot of the

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 2>appeal was all these inside jokes that they get and

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>laugh at, and it's fun to see him in a group.

0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a way to rescue movies. It's

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>gonna kill old time movies. But like just I don't know,

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the most popular memes put together ninety minutes with a

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>loose script. I think that would right. Somebody steal that

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:06.120
<v Speaker 2>idea and make it work.

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.040
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's either like irony or a perpetual motion machine

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:17.240
<v Speaker 4>or something that online memes. The enjoyment of online memes together, Yeah,

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 4>in a room might convince kids, hey, this is really fun.

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow, good point. Hello, But Mike constantly, my son would saying,

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I know you don't get that, but to to various

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 2>things that were happening, characters and lines and stuff like that,

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.440
<v Speaker 2>because they're here today. I mean, you could have had

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>a movie where the Hawktua girl was, you know, a

0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 2>co star there for a couple of coffee. Oh please, don't.

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 4>You and people would have go fought with laughter though

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 4>you know they mean studios. Yes, oh yes, now you

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 4>gotta start producing these. This is your ten million dollar idea.

0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>It's fine. I thought, I'll get another co host. I

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 2>thought of Friday Night. I thought, this is actu brilliant idea.

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.160
<v Speaker 2>It would just take a lot of money to get

0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 2>a going. You know, you'd have to pay for rights,

0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 2>but you'd have lawyers to do that. They'd be easy. Yeah. Wow,

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:08.760
<v Speaker 2>that's a great idea. Just your monthly meme cinema. Yeah, yeah,

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 2>and all the teenagers get together and feel cooler and

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.720
<v Speaker 2>smarter than the rest of us because they get all

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 2>the jokes right. Yeah. We bought it though, cost twenty bucks.

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.199
<v Speaker 2>So Minecraft's available at home now for streaming, but it

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:21.199
<v Speaker 2>was twenty bucks to in it.

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.119
<v Speaker 4>I think it's got about a six month run. Your idea,

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.160
<v Speaker 4>oh really, don't like, don't invest too heavily, thinking next

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:30.320
<v Speaker 4>year will be even bigger.

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:42.360
<v Speaker 6>Trust arm strong, the armstrong and Getty shouts.

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 2>My president decides to do something with an executive order

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 2>or whatever often that they promised on the campaign trail,

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 2>their voters get all excited, Yay, they did it day

0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>one like they promised, And then then I get an

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 2>alert on my phone. Some judge somewhere I've never heard

0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.159
<v Speaker 2>of it said no, you can't do that, and then

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 2>it stops, and everybody's like groans, like, oh, they can

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 2>do that, and it keeps happening over and over again.

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.360
<v Speaker 2>And do we want that system to continue that way

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 2>or not? Is part of what the Supreme Court was

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.360
<v Speaker 2>arguing about yesterday. And as one of the justices said,

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.919
<v Speaker 2>there are six hundred some federal judges and while I

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 2>do not question their motives. Sometimes they are wrong, so

0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 2>do we want them to be able to hold up

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the whole country?

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:31.240
<v Speaker 4>Let us discuss the very interesting and multifaceted oral arguments

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.680
<v Speaker 4>yesterday before the Supreme Court with Tim Sandefer, vice president

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 4>for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, among other auspicious titles,

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.639
<v Speaker 4>author of eight books, including most recently Freedom's Theories. How

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Isabelle Patterson, Rosewilder and Ein Rand found Liberty in Age

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:47.200
<v Speaker 4>of Darkness?

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I've recommended it many times. It's terrific. Tim. How are you, sir?

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Just great?

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 5>Thanks for having me back.

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Guys published poet, gotta throw that in there. True, Yes,

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:57.400
<v Speaker 2>a polymath as they say.

0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.479
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, Tim, So, ostensibly everyone's talking about that we are

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 4>going to discuss birthright citizenship in front of the Supreme Court,

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 4>and that did come up. But would you agree that

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 4>the more significant discussion was about nationwide injunctions by individual

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 4>federal judges. Oh?

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.080
<v Speaker 5>Yes, absolutely. That was the focus of the argument, and

0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.640
<v Speaker 5>it was a very interesting argument. But I don't think

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.919
<v Speaker 5>that it's a hard question. I think the answer is

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 5>obviously nationwide injunctions are perfectly fine. They're the ordinary way

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.719
<v Speaker 5>of doing business in the courts, and people who complain

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.359
<v Speaker 5>about them either don't understand the system or are trying

0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 5>to get away with something illegal.

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I don't. I don't always like that it happened,

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.640
<v Speaker 2>but I can't see what the alternative would be. As

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.120
<v Speaker 2>somebody pointed out, so you're gonna let me. I guess

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 2>it was you that pointed it out yesterday in Twitter.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.400
<v Speaker 2>The idea that so every time a president does something,

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.199
<v Speaker 2>it's got to work its way all the way through

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.439
<v Speaker 2>the courts up to the Supreme Court, and then a

0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.400
<v Speaker 2>decision by the Supreme Court before the Supreme Court might

0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:01.199
<v Speaker 2>say sometimes nine nothing, you can't do that.

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 5>And during that whole period of time, the government is

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:04.960
<v Speaker 5>still doing the illegal thing.

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Right right. Wow.

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.640
<v Speaker 4>So clearly it's two to one for a judicial takeover

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 4>of the government.

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 2>But I will stand up for liberty.

0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Is there no middle ground? Has got to be three

0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.280
<v Speaker 2>judge panel and not a single ya who in a

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:18.600
<v Speaker 2>rural Tennessee.

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think. I think having a single unit yae

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.199
<v Speaker 5>who in rural Tennessee is perfectly fine because that's what

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 5>the appellate process is sort of. That's why you appeal cases.

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 5>And by the way, that's why you should avoid appointing

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:34.479
<v Speaker 5>yahoos to the federal bench. Might mention that too. The argument,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.440
<v Speaker 5>the argument against nationwide injunctions always seems to boil down to, well,

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 5>this is a democracy and the majority should always get

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 5>what it wants. And the answer to that is no where.

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.560
<v Speaker 5>What happened to all of my friends who used to say,

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.080
<v Speaker 5>this is a republic, not a democracy. The whole point

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.679
<v Speaker 5>of our system is that the majority has to act lawfully,

0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 5>and if it acts unlawfully, I can go in front

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 5>of a judge and get that give an order from

0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 5>that judge prohibiting the government from violating my rights. And

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.480
<v Speaker 5>the idea that we should do this piece meal, that

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 5>only a judge down here, that his order only applies there. Meanwhile,

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 5>the government can do illegal things to everybody else in

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.320
<v Speaker 5>the country until the case reaches the US Supreme Court

0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:13.400
<v Speaker 5>makes no sense at all.

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.200
<v Speaker 4>The underlying theme here being folks, that what we really

0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:19.960
<v Speaker 4>need to fear is the power of the government in

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 4>this country. That's kind of the idea of forming it.

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 4>So there's no question that these nationwide injunctions were relatively

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.160
<v Speaker 4>or practically completely unknown for one hundred and fifty years.

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.359
<v Speaker 4>Then there were a handful of them, and the number

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 4>of them is now skyrots.

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Every day. It seems like on my phone I see

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 2>a judge jumped in somewhere.

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 5>Actually, right, I actually don't think that that's true. I

0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.760
<v Speaker 5>think that what happened was we just started calling them

0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 5>by a different name. You know, there were been injunction

0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.680
<v Speaker 5>injunctions against unconstitutional government actions since before there was a constitution.

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 5>One of the points that was brought up during the

0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.240
<v Speaker 5>arguments was that British judges used to do this before

0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 5>the American Revolution, and that was considered perfectly legitimate. It's

0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.680
<v Speaker 5>just that nowadays we call the nation right injunctions or

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 5>we have some judges who write sloppily and don't explain

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.480
<v Speaker 5>what they're actually saying or something. And okay, that's a problem,

0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.199
<v Speaker 5>I suppose. But the idea that you should limit the

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.399
<v Speaker 5>injunction power of federal courts is what that is is

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.720
<v Speaker 5>that's open door to the majority violating individual rights on

0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:21.760
<v Speaker 5>a scale that I mean, they already do it, but

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 5>you can imagine what it would be if we took

0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 5>away one of the most important protections for individual rights

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 5>in this country, which is getting an injunction from our

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 5>federal court. To protect your freedom, and it's insane.

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 2>So I didn't want to get to this part too

0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.000
<v Speaker 2>fast because you're a lawyer, and this part can't be

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.160
<v Speaker 2>fixed with the law. It seems to me that we've

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:44.240
<v Speaker 2>got a cultural problem in that presidents are way more

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:47.880
<v Speaker 2>likely than they used to be to want to challenge

0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.560
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court, either to like legitimately they don't think

0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the law is correct, or they don't care if they're wrong.

0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>They just want to get the political credit for trying.

0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.680
<v Speaker 2>And perhaps I don't know this, but it seems like

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>a likely response. The six hundred some federal judges out there,

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot more of them who are willing to

0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 2>let their politics get ahead of their judge reasoning and

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.200
<v Speaker 2>jump in and stop somebody they hate.

0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.560
<v Speaker 5>Yes, you're absolutely right about that, and especially the thing

0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 5>about the President and Congress being willing to do things

0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.199
<v Speaker 5>that they know are unconstitutional because they know that the

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 5>judges are going to strike it down and they can

0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 5>blame the judges and say, oh, those evil activist judges,

0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.080
<v Speaker 5>or they can get away with their unconstitutional things. So

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 5>it's win when if you want to do something unconstitutional,

0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 5>and honestly, every president's done this to some degree. Obviously,

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:35.840
<v Speaker 5>Franklin Roosevelt.

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Did this a lot.

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.479
<v Speaker 5>But the one that I always six in my memory

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 5>is George W. Bush when he signed the McCain fine

0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.639
<v Speaker 5>Gold campaign finance law and said when he signed it

0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 5>that he thought it was unconstitutional, but that he would

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:51.840
<v Speaker 5>leave it to the courts to deal with. Well, I'm sorry,

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 5>but if you're the president, you take an oath to

0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 5>support and defend the Constitution of the United States. And

0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 5>if you ignore that oath and sign something that you

0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 5>know was unconstitutional just because you think the courts will

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:04.960
<v Speaker 5>clean up your mess for you, I think that's disgraceful.

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, a lot of the pieces I've read that

0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:08.719
<v Speaker 2>have been following the growth of this use that as

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like the patient zero, because he said it

0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 2>out loud, and then other presidents thought, hey, I can

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.280
<v Speaker 2>do that, I just won't say it out loud, and

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Obama did it, and Biden did it, and Trump did

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:20.840
<v Speaker 2>it in whichever order, and then Trump again, and and

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:23.720
<v Speaker 2>it's so, how do we fix this?

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, there's a long answer and the short answer. The

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.800
<v Speaker 5>short answer is elect good presidents. The long answer is

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.679
<v Speaker 5>that we have to restore respect for the Constitution.

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:34.480
<v Speaker 2>In this country.

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 5>I think it's the long term damage that's been done

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 5>to Americans understanding and appreciation of the Constitution is horrifying.

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 5>We have prominent law professors. There was a law professor

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.119
<v Speaker 5>at at Georgetown Law School a few years ago published

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 5>an article in the Washington Post saying the Constitution is obsolete.

0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:56.480
<v Speaker 5>I don't respect it at all. Well, you're a teacher

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 5>of constitutional law for crying out loud. And if we

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.400
<v Speaker 5>don't respect the Constitution, we don't love it. It cannot

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.840
<v Speaker 5>protect us. The Constitution is just a promise, and if

0:25:04.840 --> 0:25:06.760
<v Speaker 5>we don't honor that promise, then it's not worth the

0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:07.639
<v Speaker 5>paper it's written on.

0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 4>We should have written a law specifically putting him in jail.

0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:15.520
<v Speaker 4>In my opinion, Tim Sandefer is online from the Goldwater Institute,

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 4>a little constitutional humor for exactly design.

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:20.680
<v Speaker 2>For punish one man.

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.120
<v Speaker 4>That's a good idea, so you know, blah blah blah.

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 4>Disclaimer about it's difficult to read the tea leaves of

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.440
<v Speaker 4>the oral arguments, blah blah blah. Did it strike you

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:34.240
<v Speaker 4>that the justices, the sane ones that we like, we're

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 4>leaning in any particular direction as to the nationwide injunctions judges,

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:40.520
<v Speaker 4>et cetera that we've been discussing.

0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:41.879
<v Speaker 2>Some of the.

0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 5>Judges have made clear for a long time that they're

0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:49.520
<v Speaker 5>against these what they call nationwide injunctions. Justice Thomas in particular.

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:51.880
<v Speaker 5>Some of the others are a little harder to read.

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.600
<v Speaker 5>Justice Barrett for example, and Justice Roberts, who have become

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.399
<v Speaker 5>really the swing judges on this issue. I thought the

0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 5>most interesting judge if you want, if anybody wants to

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:02.080
<v Speaker 5>go and listen to the argument online, I thought Justice

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 5>Jackson was the one who is the most interesting. She

0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 5>clearly understands how this area of the law works, and

0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:11.680
<v Speaker 5>she rightly says there's no there there that nationwide injunctions

0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:14.640
<v Speaker 5>are perfectly legitimate. They always have been and there's no problem.

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.480
<v Speaker 5>So she'd be the one that I find most interesting.

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 5>But how to predict I think you're going to get.

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 5>I think Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett going to side

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:24.960
<v Speaker 5>with the liberals and say, we don't have a problem

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:27.880
<v Speaker 5>per se with nationwide injunctions, but maybe some of them

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 5>aren't very good, but as a as a blanket matter,

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 5>they're okay. And then they're going to want to hear

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.840
<v Speaker 5>the underlying case about birthright citizenship, which obviously is a

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:37.680
<v Speaker 5>huge deal.

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:39.919
<v Speaker 2>To me.

0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:43.240
<v Speaker 4>Is it even worth getting into what happened on that

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 4>topic yesterday or do you think it's.

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:47.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, they really just talked about whether or not they

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.040
<v Speaker 5>have a legitimate case in the first place, and they

0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:52.800
<v Speaker 5>haven't really briefed it or argued it yet. But that's

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 5>important because in order to get an injunction, you kind

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 5>of have to first show that you have even an

0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 5>arguable point to make, and that was what they were

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 5>arguing about. And I will say, I know this is

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.359
<v Speaker 5>talk radio, and we're all supposed to think that we

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 5>clearly have the right answer and everything. I think the

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 5>birthright citizenship question is a very hard question. I don't

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:12.920
<v Speaker 5>think it's an easy question on either side.

0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about that when we come back from the break.

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:16.359
<v Speaker 2>I want to hear. I want to hear the arguments

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.120
<v Speaker 2>on both sides of that. That's interesting And clearly you've

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 2>probably seen the breakdown. Who speaks the most words? The

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 2>chicks talk too much? Is that given?

0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:28.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, jessic so to my art, does love cutting off

0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 5>lawyers and not letting them answer her question?

0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the chicks talk too much. I think that's been

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:35.680
<v Speaker 2>and the new gal talks more than anybody. That shouldn't

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:39.200
<v Speaker 2>happen in any organization. I'm strong and get the reality

0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.600
<v Speaker 2>is this is fabulous. I thank you. That's enough of that.

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 2>This is crazy. That's just why it is. Yeah, but

0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:45.639
<v Speaker 2>damn it.

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 6>We weren't allowed to ask about the big guys. This

0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:48.840
<v Speaker 6>is the United States of America.

0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:50.879
<v Speaker 2>God, let's not play games.

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 6>This is the Armstrong and Getty Show.

0:27:55.680 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, The Armstrong and Getty Show.

0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 4>Discussing the oral arguments before the Supreme Court yesterday with

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:11.679
<v Speaker 4>Tim Sanderfer, vice president for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute.

0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:17.920
<v Speaker 4>It was advertised as a birthright citizenship hearing it or discussion.

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:21.680
<v Speaker 4>It really was much more a discussion of individual federal

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:24.000
<v Speaker 4>judges and nationwide injunctions and that sort of thing. But

0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 4>to the question of the Fourteenth Amendment, Tim, you said

0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 4>before the break that it's not an easy call. I'm

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:35.080
<v Speaker 4>glad to hear you agree. I've thought the same thing.

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 4>What should we know about fourteenth Amendment even come to

0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 4>a semi intelligent opinion on this?

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 5>Well, the first sentence of the fourteenth Amendment says all

0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 5>persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:50.239
<v Speaker 5>to the jurisdiction thereof are US citizens. And all of

0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:52.960
<v Speaker 5>this case, all of these arguments turn on that phrase

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 5>subject to the jurisdiction thereof. What does that phrase mean.

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 5>It's really tough because the word jurisdic is one of

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 5>those words that can mean all sorts of different things.

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 5>It basically means power, but there's all sorts of different

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 5>kinds of power, and so that's what the argument turns on.

0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 5>Some people think that it means you have to follow

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 5>the law. If you're born here and you have to

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 5>follow the law, then you're subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 5>and then that means you're a citizen. But that doesn't

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 5>really make a lot of sense because even foreign tourists

0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 5>who come here for a vacation have to follow the law.

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they have to stop at the red lights

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:28.360
<v Speaker 5>and they can't steal things, So that can't be what

0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:33.440
<v Speaker 5>that means, right. Instead, the other side argues, jurisdiction thereof

0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 5>means some kind of loyalty or allegiance, that there's citizenship jurisdiction,

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 5>as opposed to follow the law jurisdiction, and that different.

0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:46.160
<v Speaker 5>You can see that difference For example, in this if

0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:48.960
<v Speaker 5>you're a foreign spy and you sneak into the country

0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 5>and you spy for some foreign country and you get arrested,

0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:55.080
<v Speaker 5>you can be prosecuted for espionage, but you cannot be

0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 5>prosecuted for treason. Why because you're not a US citizen

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 5>and you don't owe loyalty to the US, so you

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 5>cannot commit treason against the US. And so there's two

0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 5>different kinds of jurisdiction, is the argument. And so those

0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 5>who are against birthright citizenships say, subject of the jurisdiction

0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 5>thereof means that your parents owed loyalty to the United

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 5>States as opposed to some foreign country. And that would

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 5>mean that illegal aliens, if they have a child here,

0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:23.920
<v Speaker 5>that child is not assistant in the United States. Now,

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.520
<v Speaker 5>that's also there's a problem with that. There's a couple

0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:28.600
<v Speaker 5>problems that. One of the problems of that argument is

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 5>that nobody has ever said that that's what it means.

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.239
<v Speaker 5>In the one hundred and fifty years since this has

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 5>been in the Constitution, everybody has active like if you're

0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 5>born here, you're a citizen all of that time. And

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 5>so suddenly discovering that, what turns out that we've been

0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:45.960
<v Speaker 5>misreading the Constitution for one hundred and fifty years. Would

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:51.640
<v Speaker 5>be a huge, enormously radical transformation and how our system works.

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 5>That would cause tremendous disruption nationwide, and that would be

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 5>a real problem. But all of this, the real problem

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.400
<v Speaker 5>here in answering this question is that when the Amendment

0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 5>was adopted, there were no such things as the illegal

0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 5>aliens because there were no laws against immigration. And that

0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.920
<v Speaker 5>means if you're an originalist and you think the competition

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 5>should be understood the way it was originally intended, the

0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:15.960
<v Speaker 5>framers didn't ever think about this because it wasn't against

0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:17.479
<v Speaker 5>the law back then, So we don't know what they

0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 5>would have thought about this.

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:22.320
<v Speaker 4>Question, right right, Well, at the point that this enormously radical,

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 4>disruptive president has overturned, that's when you tag me and

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Tim and I come in and explain to the good

0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 4>folks that look, the nature of global transportation, the movement

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:38.360
<v Speaker 4>of people or peoples from one place to another has

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:39.960
<v Speaker 4>changed so vastly.

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Joe's a living Constitution guy. You can hear it coming.

0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 4>Out of what No, don't you dare no that the

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 4>very nature of comings and goings from countries has been

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:56.280
<v Speaker 4>so radically transformed a Chinese national with not the slightest

0:31:56.320 --> 0:32:01.920
<v Speaker 4>notion of making life in the United States can depart China,

0:32:02.360 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 4>arrive here, give birth, go back to China, all in

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 4>the span of seventy two hours. I'm inducing labor in

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 4>this case probably or getting very lucky, and that child

0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 4>had citizenship. That's an eventuality unimaginable back in the day,

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 4>is the case?

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 5>I think so, And that's sort of true. But on

0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:23.440
<v Speaker 5>the other hand, the Chinese question came up back then

0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 5>because there were so many Chinese in California in the

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 5>eighteen sixties. And Senator's rast, well, isn't this going to

0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:32.280
<v Speaker 5>make the children of the Chinese immigrants who back then

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:34.080
<v Speaker 5>did not intend to stay in the United States. They

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 5>intended to go back to China. The senator's rast, does

0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:39.840
<v Speaker 5>this make their kids us? Senator US citizens? And the

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 5>Senator from California said yes, and then he was immediately

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 5>thrown out of office. So what does that mean? Nobody

0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:46.560
<v Speaker 5>knows what that.

0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 4>Means a single case from eighteen ninety eight, or is

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:51.480
<v Speaker 4>there more precedent?

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.600
<v Speaker 5>Really there really isn't. There's really just a handful of

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:57.640
<v Speaker 5>presidents and no Supreme Court case has ever said that

0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:00.920
<v Speaker 5>birthright citizenship is in the in the Constitution. There have

0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:03.160
<v Speaker 5>been some that have kind of mentioned it or kind

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 5>of assumed it, but none has said so outright.

0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 2>I am surprised. The polling shows that only about a

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.240
<v Speaker 2>third of Americans want to do away with the way

0:33:10.280 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>we do it now. I'm surprised by that. I do

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:14.520
<v Speaker 2>want to get to this. This is a journalistic question,

0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:16.680
<v Speaker 2>but I think it has an effect on people's respect

0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 2>for the law. It has come up recently. It has

0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 2>become a pattern that anytime the media mentions a judge,

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>they mentioned what president appointed them. Do you think that's

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>a good idea or not? They didn't just barely got

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>a minute.

0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 5>I think I think it's fine. I think people should

0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:35.480
<v Speaker 5>know where these For instance, I think it would help

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:37.720
<v Speaker 5>a lot of judges. You know a lot of Republican

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:41.040
<v Speaker 5>appointed judges have been ruling against the Trump administration, and

0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:42.920
<v Speaker 5>I think it would be helpful for people to know

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.040
<v Speaker 5>that these questions are not things where it's all partisan.

0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:48.720
<v Speaker 5>The law is not just partisan politics. It's something much

0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 5>more profound and much more important.

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I agree, but it implies that judges I

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:54.640
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 5>True. I used to think.

0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't used to think about it ever. If a

0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 2>judge ruled, I just thought't want that's interesting now it's

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.040
<v Speaker 2>all who appointed him? Oh, of course he.

0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:06.360
<v Speaker 5>Said that that is true. That is a risk. But

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:09.280
<v Speaker 5>I think we should air on the side of informing

0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:11.960
<v Speaker 5>people as opposed to keeping people in the dark.

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 2>So that's always true. Tim Sander for the Goldwater Institute

0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.120
<v Speaker 2>on the line, Tim, final question, I've called for a monarchy.

0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 2>You in favor of it? Yes or no?

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:23.839
<v Speaker 5>No, I'm against him monarchy. I'm for the constitution.

0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe. One more question. As a published poet, I was

0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:29.080
<v Speaker 2>thinking about this yesterday he won the Nobel Prize. Bob

0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Dylan good poet or not lousy poet?

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:34.480
<v Speaker 5>Now read Robert Hayden or Richard Wilbur instead.

0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:41.200
<v Speaker 4>How about Ringo Star Octopus's Garden creative Tam. It's always

0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:43.400
<v Speaker 4>great and enlightening. Thanks Millian for the time. Let's talk

0:34:43.440 --> 0:34:43.919
<v Speaker 4>again soon.

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:44.760
<v Speaker 6>Thanks guys.

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:48.080
<v Speaker 2>All right, I was actually thinking about this listening to

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Dylan lyrics. Why do they stick in everybody's head so much?

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:54.279
<v Speaker 2>Why do people keep going back to them? If it's

0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:58.359
<v Speaker 2>just gobbledegook, like a lot of real poets claim.

0:34:59.360 --> 0:34:59.960
<v Speaker 6>It can't be.

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.839
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't lodge. It wouldn't it wouldn't make the market made,

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 2>would it all? Right?

0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:09.080
<v Speaker 4>He was famously moody about his career and his music

0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:11.800
<v Speaker 4>in his Life's Philosophy. I think some of his stuff

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:14.399
<v Speaker 4>is absolutely brilliant, and I think some of it's gobbledegook.

0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Huh. Maybe maybe more on that another day, or maybe not.

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:21.399
<v Speaker 2>We got plenty of stuff to tell you. I hope

0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:22.960
<v Speaker 2>you can stick around if you missus. Segmann. I thought

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:24.399
<v Speaker 2>that tim thing was really really good, and you want

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.400
<v Speaker 2>to listen to it again and get the podcast Armstrong

0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and Getty on demand.

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:33.320
<v Speaker 4>Armstrong, arms Strong and Getdy on demand.

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.040
<v Speaker 2>We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and

0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:38.560
<v Speaker 2>tedious and depressing. It makes you angry.

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:41.760
<v Speaker 4>You don't want to live your life like that Armstrong

0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 4>and Getty show.