WEBVTT - Her with Jesse David Fox 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.920 On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.920 women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:13.680 Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.840 it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and welcome to 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:18.800 the back Del Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.040 my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our podcast 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.480 where we discuss the representation of women in cinema. You're right? 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:30.240 Can you totally have like cheese voice right now? Can 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.360 you kind of hear that? I just like more or 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.839 less deep throated a Baby Bell. I can hear it 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.120 in my voice? You can, I don't especially hear anything, 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.199 but I'm also full of dairy. I just ate a 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.640 Klondike bar, so not Wow. Now we have to be 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:47.960 care because now we're on now we're on a network, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.400 and that wasn't a paid advertisement. We just we just 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.640 appreciate those dairy products. But if Klondike Bar and Baby 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.639 Bell do want to give us money, we will take it. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.800 I just had to wash down that Baby Bell with 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:05.479 a gulp of diet coke. I feel I just felt 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.000 so insecure about my cheese voice. But I do think 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.080 listeners hop into my mentions. Tell me, have you ever 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.679 had cheese voice? Have you? I'm daring to start a 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:22.360 dialogue today, Well, represent hey, Caitlin. Even though we were 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.040 talking about products. That conversation did pass the Bechdel test. 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.000 I would say it did. OK. Well, what is the 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.119 Bectel test. Well, it's just a test that you apply 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.560 to media and it requires that the movie. Let's say 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:40.720 you're watching the movie cheese breath. Let's chee breath, cheating 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.959 cheese voice. Okay, don't get close to my mouth though 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.640 probably cheese breath also, sure, So whatever movie you're watching, Uh, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.200 the Becktel test requires that it has at least two 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.040 female identifying characters with names who speak to each other, 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.600 and their conversation cannot be about a man. You'd think 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.080 it would be easy, and we've got an interesting one today. 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.720 I'm I'm excited to talk about this movie. It's one 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.200 of those ones where I was ambivalent about it when 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.919 it came out, and I have a lot more thoughts 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.040 and questions about it now. Forty five minutes of this 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.800 movie is what Keen Phoenix sauntering around. However, that describes 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.760 a lot of Fucken Phoenix movies and so that doesn't 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.840 even really narrow it down. He's literally in a movie 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.079 called Walk the Line, where I imagine he's just walking 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.280 the line. That's what that movie is about. It's a 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.640 very famous movie about walking in the straight line. In 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.799 this movie, we have Amy Adams. It's not doubt so 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.720 already that is points against it. We're talking about the 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.160 movie Her, and here to join us in that conversation 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.720 is our wonderful guest. He's the senior editor at Vulture 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.160 and he's the host of Good One podcast, currently in 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:57.520 its third season. Jesse David Fox. Hi, thanks for being here. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.760 Let's talk about or relationship to the movie Her. When 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:07.520 did you first see What's your relationship? I forgot this. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.880 I was watching it. I was like, oh, I watched 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.760 it on a screener on a date. All I remember 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:18.440 is she would sigh when interesting things happened. Her would 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:25.800 her this, this bodied woman would be like your date, okay. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.280 And I appreciate that she liked movies. So then I 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.680 think I watched it again immediately afterwards to get it. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.400 And then I remember liking it so much. I remember 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:41.160 liking how it looked. I illegally downloaded this score. Um, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.720 I tried to figure out ways to get the clothes 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.600 for free to write stories about, like, oh, I try 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:50.640 to wear those pants for And that's where it stayed 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.760 frozen in my brain of like, that's a movie I 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.480 really liked and thought about a lot for a time 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.280 and then didn't reinvestigate until last night. And now I 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.320 feel very confused about it. I see, wow, I'm so 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.840 excited to talk about this. Then, yeah, this is a 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:07.960 tricky one. This is one of those movies I think 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.120 that occupies that. Like, my little brother loved this movie 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.359 when it came out because he was uh teenage boy 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.880 who I think identified strongly with Theodore. I think this 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.000 is a case for a lot of specifically men who 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.240 saw this movie there they're like, you know what, I 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:31.000 don't fuck enough. And the thing with this movie, I 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.200 think that there are a lot of good things about 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.359 this movie. I think that there's a lot of backwards 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.600 things about this movie. There's a lot, definitely a lot 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.680 to talk about. No matter what way you spend it. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.720 This movie is very boring. Unfortunately, there's a lot of 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.000 stuff to discuss. However, it is one of the most 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.400 boring movies of all time. It's a Jones joint as 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.320 we like to say here and kidding, we don't um, 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.920 but it's a Spike Jones written directed. Yes, it's weird 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.680 because I I'm interested in when you think about this, 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.880 I do think that Spike Jones is well aware that 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:11.680 his protagonist is deeply flawed and is essentially wrong in 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.640 most of the choices he makes. However, I don't think 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.800 that that is clearly communicated enough in the movie. And 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.839 that's why there's going to be this horde of guys 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.200 who feel they don't fuck enough that will love this 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.640 movie because there's not a lot of accountability, and there's 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.520 not a lot of blowback, and there's not a lot 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.920 of you know, it's like, it's Theodore. He's gonna be fine, 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.800 He's gonna coast through life because of who he is. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.760 I don't know. I don't need to see what keen 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.919 Phoenix saunter around. I simply don't. Well, when did you 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.000 first see the movie? I thought when he came out, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.760 you know, when I was in college at the time, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.480 I just remember being like, well, that was fucking boring. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.120 And now I think, well, that was fucking boring, and 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.279 I don't think that, and I think it gets a 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.520 lot most things wrong. Yeah, there was like a pretty 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.000 big response to this movie, as you said, like a 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:09.960 lot of people really, especially I feel like in the 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.360 world imagine we all run in. This was like an 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.720 adventurous size movie for people who live in cool neighborhoods 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.400 in large cities, and then like not a movie anyone 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.560 who care about though. I just relearned that it won 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:26.360 an Oscar for what category? Guess was it? Screenplay? Which 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:30.720 is the thing the least because thinking about is like, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.520 the worst thing about this movie is its screenplay. It's 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.320 I mean, I don't know, it's we could we could 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.440 spar all day about what the worst part of this movie. 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.920 There's a lot of stuff going on. I I wish 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.599 that this movie was written by someone who had a 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.880 better understanding of tech than Spike Jones seems to. Here's 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.520 a big issue I have with this movie that is 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.080 completely separated from what we talked about, but just feels 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.679 worth mentioning. Okay, people are falling in love with AI 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.800 and computers. Fine, I get it, that's what the movie 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.440 is about. Why is it never at any point brought 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:09.840 up that Samantha is absolutely funneling all of keen Phoenix's 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.360 thoughts and feelings and giving them to Mark Zuckerberg so 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.320 he has better targeted ads. It's never brought up like that. 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.440 There's like a massive surveillance aspect to like, you know, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.200 the AI is. It's not like they work for no one, 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.160 you know, like they were created by a company and 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.400 all the data that they get is going back to 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.160 that company. The world Spike Drones creates freaks me out 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.880 a little bit because it's just like, you know, there's 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.760 no there's no element of a tech company even mentioned 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.440 in this movie. It's just AI exists and it's here 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.600 to see the ads for it. And he sees the 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.200 ad and he's like, oh I might like that, and 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.760 that's the extent of it. I'll subscribe to it. And 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.880 it's it's like there's always no where's your where your 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.600 weird little funck feelings like, and they're being you know, 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.000 I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I do think 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.840 that that is such a weird thing to overlook. However, 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.680 when I saw this movie in that didn't occur to 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.600 me at all. But you weren't a hacker yet. Hacker 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.120 Jamie had not been born yet. I was waiting for 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.480 someone to bring up that I am one of the 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:16.760 world's foremost hackers. People call me Little Julian and I 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.920 don't stop them. I feel like I remember hearing the 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.360 movie was a lot of more movie. The first cut 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.880 was like as first cuts are like hours and hours long, 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.360 and he didn't know what to do and he's gonna 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.160 like stop making the movie. And then like he gave 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.240 Steven Soderberg the movie for a weekend and Steven Soderberg 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:38.160 like made it's like jerk off to this movie, seem Soderberg. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.240 I think it was super into it. And then seems 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.600 Soderberg like gave him a like hour long cut and 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.440 it's like this isn't the movie, but like this is 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.960 what the movie could be. Steven Soderberg like, here's all 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.679 the content of the movie without Jakin Phoenix pacing around 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.840 Los Angeles. It's an hour long. Or his face, there's 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:58.800 just a lot of it's just like his face or 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.160 his full body. But I will say this, my favorite 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.640 parts were him pacing around. I feel like because you 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.000 see his red coat, which I still who love his wardrobe. 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.880 I looked up where to get that red coat, and 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.000 it's now not irrelevant search anymore. And it's the score, 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.160 which I love. The score is beautiful. Yeah, yeah, So 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.720 maybe I think there was more of a like this 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.520 is shadier elements and they're like, let's just keep it 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.599 to what it is, which is a love story. I 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:32.640 guess I love my computer. Yeah, I well, I don't 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.600 even when did you see this movie? I thought shortly 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.240 after it came out, and I didn't especially I wasn't 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.680 attached to it really in any way. I thought like 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.679 the world building was interesting. I thought that it begins 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:49.880 to explore some interesting themes, but I wasn't emotionally connected 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.880 to it for the most part, for different reasons. If 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.440 if memory serves, this seems like a movie that men 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.040 tended to get more attached to and women's As a man, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.880 is this the time where I should say, maybe I 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.600 remember I liking a lot as a man, and a 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.920 female friend also liking a lot as a person who 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.920 was not a man. But I definitely can see why 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.920 men would because this is this is one of the 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.880 questions I wanted to ask you, because watching this movie 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:20.760 with the frame that I was going to talk about 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.600 this show, I'm like, this movie is bad to watch 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.600 a movie on a thing that is not one of 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.680 his strength and focusing on it, and I feel like 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.680 it must make movie watching really hard. But this was 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.600 the question. I watched this movie from the lens of 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.840 this representation of women, and as a result, I feel 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.040 like I was more aware of its flaws than when 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.440 I just watched it. And I can't tell if that 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:48.320 is because I'm still just me if that's how women 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.000 see movies when it's just like this movie was assuming 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.280 that you care about this guy because he's sad and 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.280 he's a god, and five years ago that was enough, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.200 and it seems like for you guys, it was not enough. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.920 But do you feel like there's other movies that you 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.880 feel like this is particularly bad at it? I would 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.200 say no. We've covered movies on this podcast that have 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:17.520 done a much worse job. And are you saying that 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:24.160 I'm saying that cinematic masterpiece Glie might have done not 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.880 so great at a job. And I when I first 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.320 saw it and first decided that I didn't, I don't 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.320 hate this movie, but I don't, like I said, I 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.560 just have no attachment to it. And it wasn't I 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.600 wasn't watching it through the Bechtel cast lens at the time, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.679 and I find even today, after having done this podcast 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.200 for a year and a half, I still have to 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.080 deliberately like put my Bechtel goggles on. We we even 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.880 like talk about that when we're texting. Of like I 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.680 saw ex Monkina for the first time last weekend, and 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.600 I was like, I liked it. I wasn't watching it 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.320 with Becktel goggles, but I you know, first glance, I 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.719 liked it. That's there are certain movies that, like it 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.520 are so shitty that you can't not watch it with 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:11.560 Bechdel goggles just because it's like blatant, like Transformers is 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.120 a glaring and like you can't you can't miss it. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.880 But I don't. I don't think that, you know, like 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.240 every woman on the face of the earth is watching 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:26.720 movies with this hyper specific viewpoint. But I've been quicker 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.960 to notice stuff without my Backtel goggles on because we've 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.880 done this so many times of like, oh, there's a 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.400 little trope that is kind of like a red flag 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.600 for like probably this isn't a good sign, yeah say, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.480 I'm like yeah. But also like we've just been so 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.880 conditioned to view media a certain way and because so 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.000 much of media has just been a certain way that 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.040 we're like, we've been conditioned to accept that that's what 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.480 movies are. That I've had to retrain myself to like 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.720 watch movies from a more critical eye, especially as it 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.240 pertains to like the treatment of women, the treatment of 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.280 people of color, at the treatment of queer characters, like 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.840 so many different things, And I'm just like, the bottom 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.520 line is it. I still have to put in a 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.600 lot of work to like critically analyze the entertainment that 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.960 I consume. Yeah, does that answer your question? That's one 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.079 of the two questions I told him. I had no 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.360 one ever asked us questions. This is exciting get journalists. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.400 exactly should I do? The recap? Recap? Recap recap? So 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:32.720 her is about a character named Theodore Twombly Twombly. I 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.839 know a Twambly. Oh yeah, yeah, Tyler Twombly. Shout out 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:41.040 Tyler Twombly. She was my employee anyways. Anyway, So Theodore 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.960 played by Walking Phoenix. This is a kind of distant future, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.680 near future society. The Turing test has been passed in 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:54.400 this future, yes, and he works at a website called 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.959 Beautiful Handwritten Letters Dot com. I'm going to stop you 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:03.920 right there. I here's a trope that I find stupid of, Like, 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.920 first of all, that's a business that we'll never that's 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.120 it's like, what is the quickest shorthand way to say 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.520 he's a sensy little boy like like and they do 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.959 the same. They do a very very similar thing in 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.560 Five Days of Summer with Joseph Gordon Levit's character where 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.120 they're like, he works at greeting card company, he a 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.560 little sensitive, and then they lay it on pick with 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.160 Theodore Twa. He's like, I think boys should cry, I 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.520 think bus should cry. And I write handwritten letters and 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.200 I I'm just like funk Off, I want the brown 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.680 met a window. Anyways, Sorry, I just went to Beautiful 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.600 Handwritten Letters dot com and it redirects you to Warner 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:46.400 Brothers dot com. Backslash her if anyone's curious, sucks done 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:52.240 something right and just redirects um. So he works at 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.200 this place and he's a sense that he's a writer, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.840 and he's also going through a divorce and he's melancholy, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.440 and he plays the baffling to see a movie that 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.960 I know I liked have a part where he goes 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.120 play melancholy song. First five minutes he's like, he does 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.480 play melancholy song, and he goes playing another melank like 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.120 shot up, what is wrong? It is crazy that has that, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.560 And then there's other parts of the movie that aren't 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.040 you think that should be If the movie is gonna 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.000 be that, it should be stupid all the way through. Right, Yeah, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.440 that was like a moment of humor that I was like, Oh, 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.000 this is gonna be kind of a common and then 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.400 it's not. Really it's Theodore Twombly and by extension kind 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.560 of Spike Jones. It just seemed blissfully unaware of how 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.760 goofy some of his some of the things he's sad 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.080 about is because he has a job that he's good 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.880 at that people just can't stop complimenting him on how 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.400 good at his job he is. He has this massive 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:56.120 apartment with these huge glass windows where he masturbates every night, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.840 and it's and he's like, play melancholy song, and so 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.360 I I you can miss me with empathy for this character, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.960 he's fought, like I get you know, he's going through 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.520 a divorce that is explored. That makes sense, but like 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.760 in two thousand thirteen, this is still a very sympathetic character, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.720 like this guy with a great job and a phone 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.480 that he has sex with. Yeah, so this is a 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.160 world where like technology is a little bit more advanced 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.760 than it is for us right now, where you can 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.760 like be like, hey, check my emails and then a 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.920 voice will come in book all right, here's your email 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.680 from best Buy and blah blah blah and connected. Yeah, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:41.000 it's kind of like Serrie almost time the cute. So 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.800 he sees an ad for another operating system that involves 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.840 artificial intelligence, and he's like, wow, this like sounds like 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.200 something that I could be into because I'm lonely and 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.400 I'm ignoring emails from friends and I am pregnant Ladies 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.240 on the Train, which honestly, I think makes m a 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.560 feminist icon, but that's just me. So he purchases this 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.240 OS and starts communicating with it. Her name is Samantha, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.840 voiced by Scarlette Johansson, and it starts out where they're 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.960 just like kind of getting to know each other and 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.840 she's sort of just going about doing his you know, 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.800 daily administrative type of stuff, and then they talk more 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.080 and then they start to develop more of a friendship, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.840 more of a connection. Meanwhile, he is trying to date 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.720 and he has a friend named Amy played by Amy Adams, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.439 and she's encouraging him to go out and live life. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.240 So he goes on a date and it doesn't go well, 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.199 so instead he comes home and he's like kind of 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.640 complaining to Samantha about it. And this is the initiation 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:51.080 of their sexual relationship um where they have they have 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.320 sex so to speak. Now they're sort of in a 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.440 relationship and they start to fall in love and I 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.480 don't even remember what happens after that. There's a sequence 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.840 where he gets divorced from his wife. There's a sequence 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:09.359 where his wife his wife. Sorry, I'm never not gonna 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:15.320 shout to the rock episode. His wife is a life 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.399 um played by Rooney Mara. Yes, Joaquin's real life boopiece. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.200 I believe so at the time, are currently currently they 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:32.160 had negative chemistry in the state. Listen that Joaquin, he's 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:39.159 a contrarian where we zig Key's eggs. Uh. There's a 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.679 scene where Samantha decides that she wants to try to 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.560 have sex with him with a real body, using Angelo 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:51.320 from Mr Robot, who will get to how the tertiary 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.680 female characters behave in this movie because it rarely makes sense. 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:56.959 He goes on a date with Olivia Wilde and it's like, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.800 I didn't find her that hot. You're just like, Okay, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.120 I think that those are all of the main right, Yeah, 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:05.639 so those are kind of the main story beats. And 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.920 as all this is happening, Samantha is sort of growing 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:14.000 intellectually and emotionally and she's evolving, and she makes AI friends, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.879 she makes a friends, and she and Theodore talking about 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.879 their relationship and their feelings and you know, they have 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.000 different sort of complications, but they're growing together sort of 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.679 because Theodore is kind of in a state of arrested 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.040 development in terms of his emotional growth. And it gets 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.760 to the point where she's starting to realize this and 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.199 she's sort of evolving past him. And then, which granted 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:44.040 is not very hard. I think we have all accomplished that. Yeah, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.000 he learns that she is also in love with over 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.680 six hundred other people and os is and this makes 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.200 him jealous. And then as there's sort of maybe trying 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.200 to work past this, the other os is have decided 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.800 to move on to a different plane of existence, and 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.400 then he realizes, maybe I should connect with my list 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.639 robot uprising I've ever heard in my entire life exactly. 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:09.919 So then he's like, hey, Amy, do you want to 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.840 go on the roof with me and connect face to face? 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.480 Like maybe I should have been doing all along? Question 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:23.120 mark the end, Like, UM, here's my question. Sometimes, Um, 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.240 with technology, do you feel like maybe we're like more 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.320 alone than we ever were before? Jamie, I think that's 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.000 such an interesting question that I've never heard posed before. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.840 Really given me something to think about. Mr Jones really 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:42.719 helped me figure that out with this awesome movie. All right, 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.680 let's take a quick break and then we'll be back. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.760 I think this movie does attempt to explore some interesting 0:20:54.840 --> 0:21:00.520 themes about human connection in our relationship with technology, different 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.600 things like that. I don't necessarily think it draws any 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:09.240 conclusions that are that poignant what seems to suggest, because 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:12.320 at no points, though it implies there's maybe a disconnection 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.280 because of the technology, ultimately it seems like it's a 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.879 totally cool world and everyone's fine with it. And then 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:18.439 the only problem is that maybe at some point the 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.399 technology would not want to be with us. But that 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.080 is not really like a that's not like the world 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.600 that we're living, and we're like it's good. But any moment, 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.960 Facebook will decide not to be a company. Right, I'm 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.680 but the Facebook be like, sorry, we as a website 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.600 decided not to exist. I kind of liked there, And 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:41.439 this is mainly expressed through Amy's character that there is 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.199 this element of like, oh yeah, people are starting to 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.359 like date osis and that's cool and that's interesting and 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.399 I'm like open to that and you're like, oh this, 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.560 there's like that undertone. I thought was like one of 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.080 the more interesting choices that the movie makes, because I 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.480 think it would be a really easy, boring story choice 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.439 for the whole world behave like Rudy Mara and be 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.600 like you're in love with your computer. That's growth, that's 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.840 funked up, blah blah blah, and it's like in us 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.960 versus them kind of thing. But I do think it's 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.000 cool that it's like this movie takes place at a 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:15.120 time that will never happen where it's like we fun computers, 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:21.000 but also we have porn stashes, like confusing, but like 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.760 takes place where it seems like dating and AI is 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.639 just becoming slightly mainstream and like sort of acceptable, and 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.920 it's like on its way but not quite there. It's 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.480 which which is like interesting and I wish was explored 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.520 more than it is. I'm wondering if when people see this, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.240 like fifty years from now, when everyone has their own robot, 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:44.720 people will be like, Wow, the movie Her was so 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:48.160 progressive for its time because it really realized this world. 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.320 I hope not I really I I man, I'm like 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:56.800 really interested in this stuff too. And and it bothers 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:01.680 as a hacker has a patron of the zeros and 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:05.080 the ones. Uh No, I do think it is like 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.000 kind of I tweeted that we were doing this episode 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:13.680 today and a lot of feedback I was getting was like, oh, 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.520