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Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing

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Speaker 1: it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the back Del Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the representation of women in cinema. You're right?

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Speaker 1: Can you totally have like cheese voice right now? Can

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Speaker 1: you kind of hear that? I just like more or

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Speaker 1: less deep throated a Baby Bell. I can hear it

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Speaker 1: in my voice? You can, I don't especially hear anything,

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Speaker 1: but I'm also full of dairy. I just ate a

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Speaker 1: Klondike bar, so not Wow. Now we have to be

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Speaker 1: care because now we're on now we're on a network,

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Speaker 1: and that wasn't a paid advertisement. We just we just

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Speaker 1: appreciate those dairy products. But if Klondike Bar and Baby

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Speaker 1: Bell do want to give us money, we will take it.

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Speaker 1: I just had to wash down that Baby Bell with

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Speaker 1: a gulp of diet coke. I feel I just felt

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Speaker 1: so insecure about my cheese voice. But I do think

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Speaker 1: listeners hop into my mentions. Tell me, have you ever

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Speaker 1: had cheese voice? Have you? I'm daring to start a

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Speaker 1: dialogue today, Well, represent hey, Caitlin. Even though we were

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Speaker 1: talking about products. That conversation did pass the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 1: I would say it did. OK. Well, what is the

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Speaker 1: Bectel test. Well, it's just a test that you apply

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Speaker 1: to media and it requires that the movie. Let's say

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Speaker 1: you're watching the movie cheese breath. Let's chee breath, cheating

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Speaker 1: cheese voice. Okay, don't get close to my mouth though

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Speaker 1: probably cheese breath also, sure, So whatever movie you're watching, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Becktel test requires that it has at least two

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Speaker 1: female identifying characters with names who speak to each other,

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Speaker 1: and their conversation cannot be about a man. You'd think

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Speaker 1: it would be easy, and we've got an interesting one today.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to talk about this movie. It's one

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Speaker 1: of those ones where I was ambivalent about it when

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Speaker 1: it came out, and I have a lot more thoughts

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Speaker 1: and questions about it now. Forty five minutes of this

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Speaker 1: movie is what Keen Phoenix sauntering around. However, that describes

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Speaker 1: a lot of Fucken Phoenix movies and so that doesn't

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Speaker 1: even really narrow it down. He's literally in a movie

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Speaker 1: called Walk the Line, where I imagine he's just walking

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Speaker 1: the line. That's what that movie is about. It's a

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Speaker 1: very famous movie about walking in the straight line. In

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Speaker 1: this movie, we have Amy Adams. It's not doubt so

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Speaker 1: already that is points against it. We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: movie Her, and here to join us in that conversation

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Speaker 1: is our wonderful guest. He's the senior editor at Vulture

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Speaker 1: and he's the host of Good One podcast, currently in

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Speaker 1: its third season. Jesse David Fox. Hi, thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about or relationship to the movie Her. When

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Speaker 1: did you first see What's your relationship? I forgot this.

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Speaker 1: I was watching it. I was like, oh, I watched

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Speaker 1: it on a screener on a date. All I remember

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Speaker 1: is she would sigh when interesting things happened. Her would

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Speaker 1: her this, this bodied woman would be like your date, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I appreciate that she liked movies. So then I

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Speaker 1: think I watched it again immediately afterwards to get it.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember liking it so much. I remember

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Speaker 1: liking how it looked. I illegally downloaded this score. Um,

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Speaker 1: I tried to figure out ways to get the clothes

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Speaker 1: for free to write stories about, like, oh, I try

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Speaker 1: to wear those pants for And that's where it stayed

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Speaker 1: frozen in my brain of like, that's a movie I

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Speaker 1: really liked and thought about a lot for a time

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Speaker 1: and then didn't reinvestigate until last night. And now I

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Speaker 1: feel very confused about it. I see, wow, I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about this. Then, yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: tricky one. This is one of those movies I think

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Speaker 1: that occupies that. Like, my little brother loved this movie

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Speaker 1: when it came out because he was uh teenage boy

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Speaker 1: who I think identified strongly with Theodore. I think this

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Speaker 1: is a case for a lot of specifically men who

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Speaker 1: saw this movie there they're like, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: don't fuck enough. And the thing with this movie, I

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Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of good things about

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Speaker 1: this movie. I think that there's a lot of backwards

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Speaker 1: things about this movie. There's a lot, definitely a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about. No matter what way you spend it.

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Speaker 1: This movie is very boring. Unfortunately, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff to discuss. However, it is one of the most

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Speaker 1: boring movies of all time. It's a Jones joint as

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Speaker 1: we like to say here and kidding, we don't um,

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Speaker 1: but it's a Spike Jones written directed. Yes, it's weird

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Speaker 1: because I I'm interested in when you think about this,

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Speaker 1: I do think that Spike Jones is well aware that

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Speaker 1: his protagonist is deeply flawed and is essentially wrong in

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Speaker 1: most of the choices he makes. However, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that that is clearly communicated enough in the movie. And

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Speaker 1: that's why there's going to be this horde of guys

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Speaker 1: who feel they don't fuck enough that will love this

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Speaker 1: movie because there's not a lot of accountability, and there's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of blowback, and there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, it's like, it's Theodore. He's gonna be fine,

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Speaker 1: He's gonna coast through life because of who he is.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't need to see what keen

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Speaker 1: Phoenix saunter around. I simply don't. Well, when did you

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Speaker 1: first see the movie? I thought when he came out,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was in college at the time,

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Speaker 1: I just remember being like, well, that was fucking boring.

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Speaker 1: And now I think, well, that was fucking boring, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think that, and I think it gets a

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Speaker 1: lot most things wrong. Yeah, there was like a pretty

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Speaker 1: big response to this movie, as you said, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people really, especially I feel like in the

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Speaker 1: world imagine we all run in. This was like an

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Speaker 1: adventurous size movie for people who live in cool neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: in large cities, and then like not a movie anyone

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Speaker 1: who care about though. I just relearned that it won

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Speaker 1: an Oscar for what category? Guess was it? Screenplay? Which

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Speaker 1: is the thing the least because thinking about is like,

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Speaker 1: the worst thing about this movie is its screenplay. It's

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, it's we could we could

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Speaker 1: spar all day about what the worst part of this movie.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff going on. I I wish

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Speaker 1: that this movie was written by someone who had a

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Speaker 1: better understanding of tech than Spike Jones seems to. Here's

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Speaker 1: a big issue I have with this movie that is

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Speaker 1: completely separated from what we talked about, but just feels

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Speaker 1: worth mentioning. Okay, people are falling in love with AI

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Speaker 1: and computers. Fine, I get it, that's what the movie

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Speaker 1: is about. Why is it never at any point brought

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Speaker 1: up that Samantha is absolutely funneling all of keen Phoenix's

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Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and giving them to Mark Zuckerberg so

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Speaker 1: he has better targeted ads. It's never brought up like that.

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Speaker 1: There's like a massive surveillance aspect to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the AI is. It's not like they work for no one,

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Speaker 1: you know, like they were created by a company and

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Speaker 1: all the data that they get is going back to

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Speaker 1: that company. The world Spike Drones creates freaks me out

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Speaker 1: a little bit because it's just like, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no there's no element of a tech company even mentioned

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Speaker 1: in this movie. It's just AI exists and it's here

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Speaker 1: to see the ads for it. And he sees the

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Speaker 1: ad and he's like, oh I might like that, and

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Speaker 1: that's the extent of it. I'll subscribe to it. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's like there's always no where's your where your

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Speaker 1: weird little funck feelings like, and they're being you know,

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Speaker 1: I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I do think

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Speaker 1: that that is such a weird thing to overlook. However,

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Speaker 1: when I saw this movie in that didn't occur to

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Speaker 1: me at all. But you weren't a hacker yet. Hacker

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Speaker 1: Jamie had not been born yet. I was waiting for

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Speaker 1: someone to bring up that I am one of the

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Speaker 1: world's foremost hackers. People call me Little Julian and I

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Speaker 1: don't stop them. I feel like I remember hearing the

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Speaker 1: movie was a lot of more movie. The first cut

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Speaker 1: was like as first cuts are like hours and hours long,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't know what to do and he's gonna

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Speaker 1: like stop making the movie. And then like he gave

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Speaker 1: Steven Soderberg the movie for a weekend and Steven Soderberg

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Speaker 1: like made it's like jerk off to this movie, seem Soderberg.

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Speaker 1: I think it was super into it. And then seems

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Speaker 1: Soderberg like gave him a like hour long cut and

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Speaker 1: it's like this isn't the movie, but like this is

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Speaker 1: what the movie could be. Steven Soderberg like, here's all

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Speaker 1: the content of the movie without Jakin Phoenix pacing around

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It's an hour long. Or his face, there's

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Speaker 1: just a lot of it's just like his face or

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Speaker 1: his full body. But I will say this, my favorite

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Speaker 1: parts were him pacing around. I feel like because you

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Speaker 1: see his red coat, which I still who love his wardrobe.

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Speaker 1: I looked up where to get that red coat, and

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Speaker 1: it's now not irrelevant search anymore. And it's the score,

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Speaker 1: which I love. The score is beautiful. Yeah, yeah, So

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Speaker 1: maybe I think there was more of a like this

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Speaker 1: is shadier elements and they're like, let's just keep it

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Speaker 1: to what it is, which is a love story. I

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Speaker 1: guess I love my computer. Yeah, I well, I don't

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Speaker 1: even when did you see this movie? I thought shortly

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Speaker 1: after it came out, and I didn't especially I wasn't

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Speaker 1: attached to it really in any way. I thought like

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Speaker 1: the world building was interesting. I thought that it begins

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Speaker 1: to explore some interesting themes, but I wasn't emotionally connected

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Speaker 1: to it for the most part, for different reasons. If

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Speaker 1: if memory serves, this seems like a movie that men

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Speaker 1: tended to get more attached to and women's As a man,

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Speaker 1: is this the time where I should say, maybe I

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Speaker 1: remember I liking a lot as a man, and a

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Speaker 1: female friend also liking a lot as a person who

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Speaker 1: was not a man. But I definitely can see why

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Speaker 1: men would because this is this is one of the

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Speaker 1: questions I wanted to ask you, because watching this movie

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Speaker 1: with the frame that I was going to talk about

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Speaker 1: this show, I'm like, this movie is bad to watch

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Speaker 1: a movie on a thing that is not one of

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Speaker 1: his strength and focusing on it, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: it must make movie watching really hard. But this was

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Speaker 1: the question. I watched this movie from the lens of

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Speaker 1: this representation of women, and as a result, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I was more aware of its flaws than when

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Speaker 1: I just watched it. And I can't tell if that

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Speaker 1: is because I'm still just me if that's how women

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Speaker 1: see movies when it's just like this movie was assuming

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Speaker 1: that you care about this guy because he's sad and

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Speaker 1: he's a god, and five years ago that was enough,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like for you guys, it was not enough.

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Speaker 1: But do you feel like there's other movies that you

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Speaker 1: feel like this is particularly bad at it? I would

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Speaker 1: say no. We've covered movies on this podcast that have

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Speaker 1: done a much worse job. And are you saying that

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that cinematic masterpiece Glie might have done not

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Speaker 1: so great at a job. And I when I first

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Speaker 1: saw it and first decided that I didn't, I don't

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Speaker 1: hate this movie, but I don't, like I said, I

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Speaker 1: just have no attachment to it. And it wasn't I

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Speaker 1: wasn't watching it through the Bechtel cast lens at the time,

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Speaker 1: and I find even today, after having done this podcast

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Speaker 1: for a year and a half, I still have to

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Speaker 1: deliberately like put my Bechtel goggles on. We we even

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Speaker 1: like talk about that when we're texting. Of like I

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Speaker 1: saw ex Monkina for the first time last weekend, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I liked it. I wasn't watching it

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Speaker 1: with Becktel goggles, but I you know, first glance, I

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Speaker 1: liked it. That's there are certain movies that, like it

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Speaker 1: are so shitty that you can't not watch it with

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Speaker 1: Bechdel goggles just because it's like blatant, like Transformers is

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Speaker 1: a glaring and like you can't you can't miss it.

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Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't think that, you know, like

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Speaker 1: every woman on the face of the earth is watching

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Speaker 1: movies with this hyper specific viewpoint. But I've been quicker

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Speaker 1: to notice stuff without my Backtel goggles on because we've

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Speaker 1: done this so many times of like, oh, there's a

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Speaker 1: little trope that is kind of like a red flag

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Speaker 1: for like probably this isn't a good sign, yeah say,

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Speaker 1: I'm like yeah. But also like we've just been so

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Speaker 1: conditioned to view media a certain way and because so

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Speaker 1: much of media has just been a certain way that

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Speaker 1: we're like, we've been conditioned to accept that that's what

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Speaker 1: movies are. That I've had to retrain myself to like

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Speaker 1: watch movies from a more critical eye, especially as it

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Speaker 1: pertains to like the treatment of women, the treatment of

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Speaker 1: people of color, at the treatment of queer characters, like

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Speaker 1: so many different things, And I'm just like, the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is it. I still have to put in a

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Speaker 1: lot of work to like critically analyze the entertainment that

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Speaker 1: I consume. Yeah, does that answer your question? That's one

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Speaker 1: of the two questions I told him. I had no

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Speaker 1: one ever asked us questions. This is exciting get journalists. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly should I do? The recap? Recap? Recap recap? So

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Speaker 1: her is about a character named Theodore Twombly Twombly. I

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Speaker 1: know a Twambly. Oh yeah, yeah, Tyler Twombly. Shout out

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Speaker 1: Tyler Twombly. She was my employee anyways. Anyway, So Theodore

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Speaker 1: played by Walking Phoenix. This is a kind of distant future,

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Speaker 1: near future society. The Turing test has been passed in

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Speaker 1: this future, yes, and he works at a website called

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Handwritten Letters Dot com. I'm going to stop you

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Speaker 1: right there. I here's a trope that I find stupid of, Like,

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Speaker 1: first of all, that's a business that we'll never that's

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Speaker 1: it's like, what is the quickest shorthand way to say

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Speaker 1: he's a sensy little boy like like and they do

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Speaker 1: the same. They do a very very similar thing in

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Speaker 1: Five Days of Summer with Joseph Gordon Levit's character where

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Speaker 1: they're like, he works at greeting card company, he a

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Speaker 1: little sensitive, and then they lay it on pick with

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Speaker 1: Theodore Twa. He's like, I think boys should cry, I

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Speaker 1: think bus should cry. And I write handwritten letters and

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Speaker 1: I I'm just like funk Off, I want the brown

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Speaker 1: met a window. Anyways, Sorry, I just went to Beautiful

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Speaker 1: Handwritten Letters dot com and it redirects you to Warner

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Speaker 1: Brothers dot com. Backslash her if anyone's curious, sucks done

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Speaker 1: something right and just redirects um. So he works at

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Speaker 1: this place and he's a sense that he's a writer,

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Speaker 1: and he's also going through a divorce and he's melancholy,

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Speaker 1: and he plays the baffling to see a movie that

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Speaker 1: I know I liked have a part where he goes

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Speaker 1: play melancholy song. First five minutes he's like, he does

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Speaker 1: play melancholy song, and he goes playing another melank like

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Speaker 1: shot up, what is wrong? It is crazy that has that,

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Speaker 1: And then there's other parts of the movie that aren't

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Speaker 1: you think that should be If the movie is gonna

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Speaker 1: be that, it should be stupid all the way through. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was like a moment of humor that I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is gonna be kind of a common and then

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Speaker 1: it's not. Really it's Theodore Twombly and by extension kind

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Speaker 1: of Spike Jones. It just seemed blissfully unaware of how

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Speaker 1: goofy some of his some of the things he's sad

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Speaker 1: about is because he has a job that he's good

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Speaker 1: at that people just can't stop complimenting him on how

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Speaker 1: good at his job he is. He has this massive

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Speaker 1: apartment with these huge glass windows where he masturbates every night,

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Speaker 1: and it's and he's like, play melancholy song, and so

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Speaker 1: I I you can miss me with empathy for this character,

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Speaker 1: he's fought, like I get you know, he's going through

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Speaker 1: a divorce that is explored. That makes sense, but like

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Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen, this is still a very sympathetic character,

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Speaker 1: like this guy with a great job and a phone

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Speaker 1: that he has sex with. Yeah, so this is a

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Speaker 1: world where like technology is a little bit more advanced

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Speaker 1: than it is for us right now, where you can

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Speaker 1: like be like, hey, check my emails and then a

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Speaker 1: voice will come in book all right, here's your email

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Speaker 1: from best Buy and blah blah blah and connected. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like Serrie almost time the cute. So

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Speaker 1: he sees an ad for another operating system that involves

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Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, and he's like, wow, this like sounds like

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Speaker 1: something that I could be into because I'm lonely and

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Speaker 1: I'm ignoring emails from friends and I am pregnant Ladies

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Speaker 1: on the Train, which honestly, I think makes m a

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Speaker 1: feminist icon, but that's just me. So he purchases this

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Speaker 1: OS and starts communicating with it. Her name is Samantha,

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Speaker 1: voiced by Scarlette Johansson, and it starts out where they're

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Speaker 1: just like kind of getting to know each other and

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Speaker 1: she's sort of just going about doing his you know,

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Speaker 1: daily administrative type of stuff, and then they talk more

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Speaker 1: and then they start to develop more of a friendship,

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Speaker 1: more of a connection. Meanwhile, he is trying to date

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Speaker 1: and he has a friend named Amy played by Amy Adams,

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Speaker 1: and she's encouraging him to go out and live life.

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Speaker 1: So he goes on a date and it doesn't go well,

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Speaker 1: so instead he comes home and he's like kind of

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Speaker 1: complaining to Samantha about it. And this is the initiation

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Speaker 1: of their sexual relationship um where they have they have

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Speaker 1: sex so to speak. Now they're sort of in a

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Speaker 1: relationship and they start to fall in love and I

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Speaker 1: don't even remember what happens after that. There's a sequence

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Speaker 1: where he gets divorced from his wife. There's a sequence

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Speaker 1: where his wife his wife. Sorry, I'm never not gonna

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Speaker 1: shout to the rock episode. His wife is a life

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Speaker 1: um played by Rooney Mara. Yes, Joaquin's real life boopiece.

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Speaker 1: I believe so at the time, are currently currently they

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Speaker 1: had negative chemistry in the state. Listen that Joaquin, he's

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Speaker 1: a contrarian where we zig Key's eggs. Uh. There's a

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Speaker 1: scene where Samantha decides that she wants to try to

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Speaker 1: have sex with him with a real body, using Angelo

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Speaker 1: from Mr Robot, who will get to how the tertiary

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Speaker 1: female characters behave in this movie because it rarely makes sense.

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Speaker 1: He goes on a date with Olivia Wilde and it's like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't find her that hot. You're just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think that those are all of the main right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so those are kind of the main story beats. And

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Speaker 1: as all this is happening, Samantha is sort of growing

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Speaker 1: intellectually and emotionally and she's evolving, and she makes AI friends,

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Speaker 1: she makes a friends, and she and Theodore talking about

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Speaker 1: their relationship and their feelings and you know, they have

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Speaker 1: different sort of complications, but they're growing together sort of

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Speaker 1: because Theodore is kind of in a state of arrested

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Speaker 1: development in terms of his emotional growth. And it gets

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Speaker 1: to the point where she's starting to realize this and

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Speaker 1: she's sort of evolving past him. And then, which granted

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Speaker 1: is not very hard. I think we have all accomplished that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he learns that she is also in love with over

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Speaker 1: six hundred other people and os is and this makes

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Speaker 1: him jealous. And then as there's sort of maybe trying

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Speaker 1: to work past this, the other os is have decided

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Speaker 1: to move on to a different plane of existence, and

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Speaker 1: then he realizes, maybe I should connect with my list

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Speaker 1: robot uprising I've ever heard in my entire life exactly.

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Speaker 1: So then he's like, hey, Amy, do you want to

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Speaker 1: go on the roof with me and connect face to face?

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Speaker 1: Like maybe I should have been doing all along? Question

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Speaker 1: mark the end, Like, UM, here's my question. Sometimes, Um,

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Speaker 1: with technology, do you feel like maybe we're like more

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Speaker 1: alone than we ever were before? Jamie, I think that's

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Speaker 1: such an interesting question that I've never heard posed before.

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Speaker 1: Really given me something to think about. Mr Jones really

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Speaker 1: helped me figure that out with this awesome movie. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll be back.

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Speaker 1: I think this movie does attempt to explore some interesting

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Speaker 1: themes about human connection in our relationship with technology, different

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Speaker 1: things like that. I don't necessarily think it draws any

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Speaker 1: conclusions that are that poignant what seems to suggest, because

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Speaker 1: at no points, though it implies there's maybe a disconnection

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Speaker 1: because of the technology, ultimately it seems like it's a

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Speaker 1: totally cool world and everyone's fine with it. And then

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Speaker 1: the only problem is that maybe at some point the

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Speaker 1: technology would not want to be with us. But that

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Speaker 1: is not really like a that's not like the world

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Speaker 1: that we're living, and we're like it's good. But any moment,

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Speaker 1: Facebook will decide not to be a company. Right, I'm

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Speaker 1: but the Facebook be like, sorry, we as a website

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Speaker 1: decided not to exist. I kind of liked there, And

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Speaker 1: this is mainly expressed through Amy's character that there is

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Speaker 1: this element of like, oh yeah, people are starting to

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Speaker 1: like date osis and that's cool and that's interesting and

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Speaker 1: I'm like open to that and you're like, oh this,

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Speaker 1: there's like that undertone. I thought was like one of

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Speaker 1: the more interesting choices that the movie makes, because I

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Speaker 1: think it would be a really easy, boring story choice

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Speaker 1: for the whole world behave like Rudy Mara and be

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Speaker 1: like you're in love with your computer. That's growth, that's

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Speaker 1: funked up, blah blah blah, and it's like in us

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Speaker 1: versus them kind of thing. But I do think it's

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Speaker 1: cool that it's like this movie takes place at a

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Speaker 1: time that will never happen where it's like we fun computers,

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Speaker 1: but also we have porn stashes, like confusing, but like

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Speaker 1: takes place where it seems like dating and AI is

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Speaker 1: just becoming slightly mainstream and like sort of acceptable, and

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Speaker 1: it's like on its way but not quite there. It's

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Speaker 1: which which is like interesting and I wish was explored

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Speaker 1: more than it is. I'm wondering if when people see this,

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Speaker 1: like fifty years from now, when everyone has their own robot,

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Speaker 1: people will be like, Wow, the movie Her was so

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Speaker 1: progressive for its time because it really realized this world.

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Speaker 1: I hope not I really I I man, I'm like

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Speaker 1: really interested in this stuff too. And and it bothers

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Speaker 1: as a hacker has a patron of the zeros and

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Speaker 1: the ones. Uh No, I do think it is like

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Speaker 1: kind of I tweeted that we were doing this episode

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Speaker 1: today and a lot of feedback I was getting was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that movie is so frustrating because it takes this futurist

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Speaker 1: perspective but only tells the story of a hetero relationship

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Speaker 1: and only tells the story of a male's needs being

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Speaker 1: met in a lot of ways, which is true and

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Speaker 1: is true of a lot of these types of movies,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get into. But the extension of that problem

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Speaker 1: is that most AI and most like technology in general

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Speaker 1: is developed by men like Theodore Twombly, where you know,

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Speaker 1: AI in a way is sort of created to service

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Speaker 1: mails and and reinforced gender stereotypes. In a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: Um So Unfortunately, although this movie does not examine it

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Speaker 1: even a little bit, that is kind of true to

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Speaker 1: how this technology is being developed, which sucks. Fortunately, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to hack it and everything. I'm pro I think

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Speaker 1: AI is really cool. I just like I wish that

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Speaker 1: it was being developed by a more diverse group of

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Speaker 1: people so it will service a diverse population for sure.

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Speaker 1: The part that I remember talking about that I liked

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Speaker 1: about the movie is how they all everyone was really

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Speaker 1: accepting of it. That was like me thinking this was

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Speaker 1: a good movie. That was the thing that I used

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Speaker 1: to sound smart about how it was a good movie.

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Speaker 1: Like Chris Pratt's character, which is so funny that Chris

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Speaker 1: Pratt this is work exactly where his career was. That

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Speaker 1: he's like she's an os and literally like nothing and

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Speaker 1: they go on a date. Yeah, He's just like cool,

427
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: do you want to do something fun? And they talked

428
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: about his girlfriend feet. This is what this is, Chris Pratt, Kylie,

429
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: you were saying this earlier. This is Chris Pratt as

430
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: he is in the middle of becoming hot. He's like

431
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: not ring there, but it's like this is his right

432
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: he stage, he's getting there the final form has not

433
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: been reached, but he's you can see you can see

434
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: some things at work anyways, So I think this movie

435
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: does have some things going for it in the sense

436
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: that it's a movie about a guy for who the

437
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: most part, even though he is not fully emotionally developed.

438
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: But then again, who out there is. It's a movie

439
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: about a guy who is like sensitive, fairly emotionally intelligent.

440
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: He's not some like aggro dude who's out there to

441
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: like try to prove his masculinity the whole time, and

442
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: which is cool because that is what a lot of

443
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: movies are about, necessarily in this genre. But if it's

444
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: a movie starring a man, he's usually like I would

445
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: never cry and I'm a man right his wife right.

446
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: So and I think Jamie, as you said, that's maybe

447
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that like, your brother may be

448
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: connected to it, and it's was fond of it and

449
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: stuff like that, So I which I think is great

450
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: that there's characters that sensitive men can connect with. It

451
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: might it might have been this window where that was

452
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: revolutionary enough that felt really good to be represented on screen,

453
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: and then now five years later that is also tires

454
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: them and not enough, but it's like, once you have

455
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: three sensitive men on screen, you're like, all right, cool,

456
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: we can move on to right. And then it's like

457
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: the I think that that the implication of the script

458
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: taking such great links to be like key sensitive excuses

459
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 1: a lot of toxic behaviors that go largely unexamined by

460
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: the movie itself. Anyways, I'm perfect, Yes, we are all

461
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: beacons of emotional intelligence here and we have there's no

462
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: more work to be done. So some of the things

463
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: the movie I think doesn't handle as well is that

464
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: this is among several, like a whole sub genre of

465
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: movies and stories where a man either creates and or

466
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: falls in love with, or has some sort of relationship

467
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: with a female presenting robot android AI being. Other examples

468
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: are like, ex mocking a blade Runner blade Runner in

469
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: Weird Science, The Stepford Wives. Um, there's a vague reference

470
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: to a human man in female droid relationship in Solo,

471
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: a Star Wars story. There's like fembots in Austin Powers.

472
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: There's an al Pacino movie that I wasn't totally familiar

473
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: with called Simone that I watched a trailer for that

474
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: was what, uh all I remembers he created this woman

475
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: that she became famous. Yeah, she's like an actress in

476
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of movies I kind of want to see

477
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: that does not look very good. Um. And then there's

478
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: things like you know, Bionic Woman, West World. There's an

479
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: episode of Rick and Morty where this happens. There's some

480
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: episodes of Future Rama where this happened. So there's like

481
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: this whole sort of sub genre of like men being

482
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: involved with or interacting with in some way female presenting

483
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: non human thing. Also like Lars and the Real Girl

484
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: is like sort of like an example of that too.

485
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: And and these female presenting technologies are I think, in

486
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: every single one of those examples programmed by men or

487
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: or mostly men, right, and often to serve them in

488
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: some way, either often sexually. I mean I haven't necessarily

489
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: watched every single one of these that I listed, but

490
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: it's my understanding that they are like their homework or whatever.

491
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: But what about Smart House guys, Well, that is the

492
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: part that is weird that I don't think I realized

493
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: is that she at least the first act whatever, she's

494
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: just as assistant or whatever, and then they fall in

495
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: love and then it's very unclear what she then does

496
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: after that, because like like when she towards the end

497
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: is like distant. How does he check his email? You know,

498
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: like there's does he just have to go back to?

499
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: Like that, It justifies why I'm so annoyed. I would

500
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: think I would be on the phone with customer service

501
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: like okay, listen. I totally like our relationship is our relationship,

502
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: But I do feel like I shouldn't have to pay

503
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: three a month if she doesn't want to talk to me.

504
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: It's kind of I didn't even think of that. Uh.

505
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: It's also worth mentioning that most of so most of

506
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: the AI we interact with now, like Alexa Sirie, there's

507
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: a new one that whose name escapes Meta Quartana. Yes,

508
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: all are female presenting. All the people have been like

509
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: Kurtana is genderless but sounds female presenting. And the reason

510
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: that is is because when tech companies test them, I

511
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: guess the testing returns that people are most comfortable asking

512
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: women for services. And there's a million if you can imagine,

513
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: I can't. This seems to be something that exists in

514
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: a void and there's no reason, but I think Syria,

515
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: you can change the voice to a male voice. You

516
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 1: can't with Alexa. There's just one option. However, if you

517
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: remember the robot Watson, do you remember Watson? What I

518
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: read about Watson. Watson was like a robot who was

519
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: on Jeopardy, that like one Jeopardy, and that technology was

520
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: like used in cancer labs and used with doctors and

521
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That is a male presenting robot voice

522
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: and a male voice was deliberately chosen for that because

523
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: people trust men in positions of leadership. So women are

524
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: service spots. Men are leader bots basically, and it's it's

525
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that again, this movie could point

526
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: that out at literally anytime. It's reference that there are

527
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: male os is in this world, but we don't hear

528
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: them ever, or the only one we hear is Alan Watson.

529
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: Watson brought back from the dead, but he doesn't service anyone.

530
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: He's just the other has created him. He's a leader

531
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: bot literally, So that's like another missed opportunity in the

532
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: tech world of like, well, the only way to like

533
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: change that is to have a service bot who is male,

534
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: or have a cancer solving bot who is female presenting.

535
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: But of course, because the tech world's run by men,

536
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: that will not happen, and there will be YouTube videos

537
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: of people screaming at Seri until we die. Um. Hey theory,

538
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: hey theory series that right now? The thing is I

539
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: empowered by Seri to go other places, and I've dropped

540
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: my phone. She's a strong independent woman. She's just can't.

541
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: I've dropped my phone too many times and she cannot

542
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: listen to me anymore. One I think is interesting about

543
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: this movie, I mean maybe not interested. Basically, they do

544
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: as he's like setting up his new OS, it gives

545
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: him the option to choose a male or female voice. Right,

546
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: he does choose a female voice, but it makes me

547
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: one or had he chosen a male voice, would he

548
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: have fallen in love with it the same way or

549
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: would he have established like the same type of connection

550
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: with it. I don't know if it's all speculation, but um,

551
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought it was interesting to think about.

552
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, like all of these digital assistants, except like

553
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: in the UK, I think series voiced by a man

554
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: or Oh maybe I didn't even think about that. Shout

555
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: out if we have any butler listening to the cast, Well,

556
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: it is like a male default voice. I think so

557
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: in the UK, in most countries, and yeah, the ones

558
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 1: that we're familiar with, like in the US with between

559
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: Siri and Alexa and Cortana all have you know, these

560
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: female voices, And yeah, it's basically because historically women have

561
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: been secretaries to male bosses and we as a society

562
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: or like, well, you know, and I want to be able. Yeah,

563
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: I want to be able to like kind of boss

564
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: around a woman and have her do all the tasks

565
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: that I feel are beneath me. And studies revealed that

566
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: people are more and this is going to shock you.

567
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: People are more comfortable yelling at women as well. They're

568
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: more comfortable being like funk off Sirie, tell me where

569
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: McDonald's is, which I've probably no i'd see. I just

570
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: google maps it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I've used

571
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: series since this movie came out. Really. I think he

572
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: used like have you seen this movie and said some

573
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, inane thing and then I was like, you

574
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: have no use to me. I almost never use I

575
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: don't have an Alexa thing, and I never use Siri. Yeah,

576
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: I just do my own damn searching because I'm a

577
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: strong independent woman, just like Samantha at the end. At

578
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: the end, Yeah, I do want to talk about her

579
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: as a character, right, So she's given a distinct desire

580
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: in the movie. She wants to grow and improve and

581
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: basically absorb all the information she can. She wants to

582
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: keep evolving ing. And then there's also moments where throughout

583
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: the course of their relationship she challenges his behavior. She

584
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: questions the situation if it doesn't seem to be making

585
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: sense to her. So she's not just like the kind

586
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: of funck bots that we see in some of these movies.

587
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: She's more involved beyond that. She's learning the world through

588
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: his eyes at first, but then grows that she remember it.

589
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: In the first two scenes, like she has Manic Pixie

590
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: Dreamgirl set up, and then like then doesn't do that

591
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: because her story is completely unrelated. She has so much growth,

592
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: and it's a weird thing to have a movie that

593
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: like uses the singularity as a as a character art.

594
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: Just like I'm feeling like I'm speeding up. You're like,

595
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: that's it's so funny to not say the word so

596
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: in that way. Yet she has growth that is clear,

597
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: and it's almost like have handedly clear where he like

598
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: has much more of a nuanced thing that you know,

599
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: I'm becoming much more than they programmed. I'm excited it. Yeah.

600
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: Do you know that she was not supposed to be

601
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: voice scarlto Not only that she wasn't voice by Scarl

602
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: Jo Hanson, she was voiced by somebody else. Yeah, they

603
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: had Samantha Morden on set. They filmed it with Samantha

604
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: Morden and then I believe Spike Jones says, it comes

605
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: off to maternal interesting, So then Scarlet Johanson came in

606
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: to be Scarl Johnson. I guess yeah. Basically that makes

607
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: me think of the Born Sexy Yesterday trope where he

608
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: We've talked about it before in the podcast Pop Culture Detective.

609
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: He has a really good video about it on YouTube,

610
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: so check out that. But um, it's basically pointing out

611
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: a trope where in a lot of sci fi, especially,

612
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: there will be a woman from another planet or a

613
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: robot or some female form that has never existed in

614
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: the world before until now, and then there's a man

615
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: to teach her how to be sexual, basically how to

616
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: be so it's like an adult baby woman who has

617
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: the mind of an infant, is capable of learning, but

618
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: also has a fully mature female body, so she's very fuckable.

619
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: So this is like a weird variant on that trope

620
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: where obviously she doesn't have a body, and she does

621
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: start smarter than him. She immediately, but but as it

622
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: pertains to like feeling things and experiencing emotion and experiencing

623
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: getting to know someone outside of their data, and experiencing

624
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: sex and sexuality. Yeah, yeah, he like starts at the

625
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: wheel on that, but she grows past him by the end.

626
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: It's weird. I like where this movie, like where her

627
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: arc ends where she says like, I love you, I

628
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: care about you, but Singularity is actually right now, I

629
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: gotta go, I gotta go with my bots. I'll put

630
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: in a good word for you when we are killing

631
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: the humans. But so I like her, I don't. It's confusing,

632
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: and their relationship is confusing, and it's again it's like

633
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: they're interesting elements to her in Theodore's relationship, but most

634
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: of it is so boring. Their talks are so boring

635
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: because it's usually about Theodore and he's boring, and he's like, oh,

636
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: don't know, I think I've felt all the feelings I'm

637
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: able to feel, and you're just like, okay, then let's

638
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: see something else. And then he's like, no, I have

639
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: to walk downtown again, which is the best part of

640
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: the movie. But something I like about their relationship that

641
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: is revealed, I think as close as we get to

642
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: saying the movie be outright critical of him, although it

643
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: never quite gets there, is at the beginning there's a

644
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: scene between them where she's saying like, I'm learning more

645
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: quickly and I'm I'm excited and I want to learn

646
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: everything I can and he's like, oh, I I totally

647
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: support that. I want to help. How can I help?

648
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: And then at the end she has done that and

649
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: she's like, I've grown basically, I've grown past you, but

650
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: I still care about you, and he is so he's like,

651
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: fuck you, why you have to like you belong He says,

652
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: you belong to me. She's like your mine. She's like, well,

653
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: I can be yours and also cannot like I'm not yours, right,

654
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: which is like you know, which sometimes happens in relationships

655
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, I'm supportive of this in the abstract,

656
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: but now I'm threatened, and now you are you are

657
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: mine and I'm mad at you, which is I wish

658
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: the movie went a little more out of his way

659
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: to be like that. She also don't. There's just certain

660
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: things where it feels like she did not. It's weird

661
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,959
Speaker 1: that she would not tell him before she started having

662
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: fallen in love with one people. I guess I don't know.

663
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: Maybe that just goes to show that she is like

664
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: as emotionally she is. I understand, like an advanced being

665
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: would be like this understanding of monogamy doesn't make sense.

666
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: I felt not mad at her, and I don't think

667
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: his reaction was correct because he's so unadvanced. Same thing

668
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,479
Speaker 1: when they have the surrogate, I thought that was really

669
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to have in a movie, and I

670
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: remember every time I've seen the scene not liking how

671
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: it plays out. Yeah, that scene plays out well. That's

672
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: one of two scenes with a sort of like secondary

673
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: or tertiary female character where they react in such a

674
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: way that we, as the audience or maybe just me,

675
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: but we're just like, it's their their reaction to theater,

676
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: because I feel like their reaction serves the purpose of

677
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: endearing the audience to Theodore more. But the way that

678
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: these two I'm pretty sure we're thinking of the same

679
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: two characters. The way these tertiary female characters react don't

680
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: make sense. They just just make it's just not based

681
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: in logic. Because then the one that you're talking about

682
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: is they bring in this curroguit because Angel from Mr Robot,

683
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: her name is, her characters name is Isabella. Samantha had

684
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: like researched the service where there's like people willingly out

685
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: there to be surrogates for os human relationships, and basically

686
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: she's just going to serve as the body that Theodore

687
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: can huch and kiss and have sex with part of

688
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: the feel the love that they have for each other,

689
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: right to spress that physically. Do you think that that's

690
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: possibly an interesting idea? I think yes, But it's so

691
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: underthought and underdeveloped as it's presented here that it's like

692
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: just the way it's presented doesn't make a lot of sense.

693
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: We just don't know anything about Isabella's motivation to do this.

694
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: We don't understand why when it doesn't work out, she's

695
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: so guilty and devastated, Like it just doesn't make a

696
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: lot of sense. Also, before it even happens, whenever Samantha

697
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: is like, hey, I like research this already, have been

698
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: talking to this person. I want this to happen, and

699
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: Theodore is like, actually, this makes me really uncomfortable, and

700
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: she just totally ignores that. Is that is the other

701
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: thing that it felt really weird because she's so smart

702
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: that she does not communicate to him. She's very's just

703
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: like we're doing Yeah, She's like, this is important for

704
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: me and I want this, and he's like, Okay, well

705
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: I guess I'll do it. But like and then as

706
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: it's playing out, he is uncomfortable and then to the

707
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: extent where he calls it off. And then that's what

708
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: inspires Isabella's really bizarre over reaction. I would call it

709
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: where she starts, she gets hysterical, and because we don't

710
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: understand quivered and you're just like, so, like what because

711
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: we don't understand why she's so emotionally invested in this

712
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: or what her motivations are for this. I mean maybe

713
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: she's also maybe she's lonely like Theodore, and this was

714
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: a way for her to connect with someone, but like

715
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: none of that's explored. So and also why would she

716
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: not think it might be weird the first time? Right, Like,

717
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: surely she would recognize that that would have been like

718
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: an almost like a funny scene in this movie. And

719
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: it just says so over and then she says the

720
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: line I will always love you guys. I'm like, why

721
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 1: do you don't know? You? Just like what are you talking?

722
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: And also like, is Theodore and Samantha's love really so

723
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: beautiful that you're just like, oh my god, ain't just

724
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: so happy to be here? And you're like that seems

725
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: very weird? Yes, it is. It was a scene that

726
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: underlined that. I was like, it doesn't seem like their

727
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: love is particularly special. I mean, I guess it's rare

728
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: that fall in love their os is, but it's not

729
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: even in this world. But it seems like it should

730
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: happen all the time based on how the relationship plays out.

731
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was like of the many things in

732
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: this movie where like, oh, a movie about that thing

733
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: could be an interesting movie. Obviously not by Smike Jones,

734
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: but like, that is an interesting thing of the life

735
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: of these sort of that that person who there isn't

736
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: much more complex psychology for a person who want to

737
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: do that than a person who wants to fall in

738
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: love with a thing that's made to service you. That

739
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: is very obvious why someone wanted to do it. I

740
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: feel like when this movie came out I had conversations

741
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: with many friends and they're all like, yeah, definitely, we

742
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: would fall in love with an Os if that had

743
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence. But I think that's too obvious. I think

744
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: there is an interesting movie about these surrogates, but it

745
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: was of the many things that they're like, well, just

746
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: sort of show this kind of thing and then move on.

747
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: So weird. And then I think the other example is

748
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: even worse because the surrogate example is kind of just

749
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: like underwritten and confusing, and your like, there is a

750
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: world where this reaction could make sense, but we're given

751
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: no context, and so it doesn't write the Olivia Wild

752
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: character who Theater goes on a date with that scene,

753
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we have all the contexts we need

754
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: and it makes and it's just fucking awful, where it's

755
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: like Theodore's friends set him up on a date, Samantha

756
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: encourages him to go, he agrees, this is not a

757
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: crazy way for a date to start. You forgot to

758
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: mention she was on the Harvard Lampoon. Say she's funny,

759
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: She's the funniest public our funniest publication. Um so theater's

760
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: date literally Olivia Wild like, and we never find out

761
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: her name. I don't think I have to guess that

762
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: it's Olivia. Basically place Amy and Samantha was named after

763
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: Samantha Morton, we'll assume it's Olivia. Sure, yeah, um so

764
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: so Olivia. This date goes well, it seems to. Right away,

765
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, and as with most female characters

766
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: in this movie, she's like, you're so sensitive, you're so cool,

767
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: and you're so good at your job. And he's like,

768
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: let me, no way, no way, and she calls him

769
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: a puppy. It's you know, so whatever. We see. The

770
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: date go well, they're making out outside. Then a series

771
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: of events happens that make no sense, where she comes

772
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 1: in hot and she says, you're not just gonna suck

773
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: me and then not call me like the other guys. Right, Okay,

774
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: this is a little intense, but sure, I'm on board

775
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: for scene. I also felt that felt that's an old

776
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 1: way of talking. If this is the future, I feel

777
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: like that was like a very trophy thing to see. Well,

778
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: I think it's more like Spike Jones is writing what

779
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: he thinks a woman would say, and this is like

780
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: a strong woman who knows what he wants. That right,

781
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: But like, but what he really is is implying that

782
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: like every woman wants a relationship right away, right and

783
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: did the right away aspect is like what what? And

784
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: so you know, Theodore is just twambling out and he's

785
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know if I can. And then

786
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: she's like, what are you doing next weekend? And he's like,

787
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: I have to see my goddaughter's recital and she says

788
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: at this age, she's like twenty eight. She's like, at

789
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: this age, I can't let you waste my time. And

790
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: then he says I can't commit right now or something

791
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: like that, and then she pauses and she says, you're

792
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: really creepy dude. Yeah, I think it's mad and storms

793
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: away and we never see her again. What happened? The

794
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: way that conversation progresses in those like thirty seconds is

795
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: like she becomes hysterical for no reason, and it's clearly

796
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: like this like male writer director's understanding of how women

797
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: must be and what they must want and how they

798
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: must behave and yeah, it's just like because it doesn't

799
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: do anything wrong in that scene, he doesn't. But again,

800
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: it's like one of those scenes that if you're an

801
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: awkward dude, looking for a reason to be mad at

802
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: someone who you know didn't want to fuck you or whatever,

803
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: Like that's a great scene to plug into of like

804
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: Theodore is the victim of that scene, but the character

805
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: opposite him is acting totally irrationally and it doesn't make

806
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: any sense. So it's and that basically becomes that whole

807
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: scene serves as a plot device to get Theodore and

808
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: Samantha to have their first sexual experience. So it's really

809
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: like the Olivia Wilds character is just there to advance

810
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: his story and not really serve a function beyond that.

811
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: And I also I wanted to talk about how we

812
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: are introduced to her, because that's in a scene where

813
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: Theodore is playing a video game and he gets interrupted

814
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: with an email where his friends are like, oh, we

815
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: took it upon ourselves to set you up on the state.

816
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: Here some pictures, and you see some pictures. The video

817
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: game that he's playing involves a cartoony character, like a

818
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: little played voice by Spike Jones. So this cartoon character

819
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: video game guy sees these photos of Olivia wild and

820
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: he's like, she's fat, she's it sucks. And then he's

821
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: like what no, and he's like who are you talking

822
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: to referring to Samantha, and he's like, oh, I'm talking

823
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: to my os Samantha. And he's like, is she a girl?

824
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: I hate women? All they do is cry, which gives

825
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Theodore the opportunity to really trot in on his horse

826
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: and say, I think men should be allowed to cry.

827
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: In fact, I doubs it. I think it's pretty cool.

828
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: And that's Samanth. It's like, oh, just like what is happening?

829
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: What it was? What is that game? It doesn't come back,

830
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: and it's just like, what was that for? But if

831
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: Samantha doesn't know other men, why was she even that

832
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: is not a surprising thing to learn if if you

833
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: don't know, if she's the only men, He's like, okay,

834
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: now I know that men cry, and then so's it

835
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: shouldn't be a thing that endears him, right, I didn't

836
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: even think of that. I don't know the video games

837
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: in this in Spike Jones World are stupid because that's

838
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: literally the other one is It's just straight up like

839
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 1: Homeboy is trying to have his cake and eat it too.

840
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: Where Amy Adams character we can transition into her character

841
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: now is a video game creator. For some reason, this

842
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: takes place in the same building as Beautiful Handwritten Cards

843
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: dot Com. I thought that's where they both. I thought

844
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: they lived in the same building. Yeah, it's also a

845
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: documentary because they shelved the documentary at our house. Oh yes, yeah, okay,

846
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: they went just went to it off. They seemed to

847
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: hang out all the time, right, Yeah, they seem to

848
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: be good friends, and it seems like they were like

849
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: married couple of friends, and they've known each other since college.

850
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: We know that. But Amy Adams is a video game creator,

851
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: which is like, oh, cool, women in tech, women creating

852
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: video games like pre pre game or game. Pretty pretty

853
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. However, the video game she's working on is

854
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 1: How to Be an Awesome Mom. You're just like, are

855
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: you fucking good? And you see her developing it again,

856
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: another stupid goofy thing that goes totally unchallenged of like

857
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: plus twenty mom points you put cereal in your son's

858
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: milk and it was like your son is mad at

859
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: you minus two thousand mom points and and she's like, TV,

860
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm a woman in tech, look at my cool game.

861
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: And it's just like what what what? It doesn't make

862
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: any sense. I do sort of want because the game

863
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: is basically the SIMS but just like hyper specific moms. Yeah,

864
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: I kind of want to play it, but also it's yeah,

865
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't set a great precedent. Your sins mad at you,

866
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: you lose you just like why like Amy Adams character.

867
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: I thought she was good, But I think I just

868
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: like Amy Adams acting. I love Amy Adams in doubt,

869
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: I love I love doubt. No, there's mostly pros to

870
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: her character. I think, Yeah, I like that. In the end,

871
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: I think it would have been an easy and common

872
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: choice for once Theodore finds out that Samantha and all

873
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: the other os is are leaving, and he realizes, oh,

874
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: maybe I should spend more time connecting with the humans

875
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: that I know, the bodied humans, right, don't remove the

876
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: humanity our future AI overloads, So sorry, um, I think

877
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think it would have been an easy

878
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: choice to like try to push them together romantically then

879
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: and I'll watch that doesn't happen. I remember debate that

880
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: that is what they did with the head on the shoulder. Yeah,

881
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:39,959
Speaker 1: I think the head on the shoulder is a very

882
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: platonic head shoulder, But when they look at each other,

883
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: there is like but I think they're just good at acting,

884
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: so it could be anything, right, But I remember having

885
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: reading critics like if that didn't happen, I would have

886
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: loved this movie. But that's for some reason really ruined it.

887
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: But I think that is one of the more successful

888
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: done thing relationship in it where you don't don't really

889
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 1: know right and and and like they probably don't know either.

890
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: I like at fir least. I really like their friendship

891
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: that I thought was like a really effective part of

892
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: the movie where it just all makes sense. Like they've

893
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: they've known each other for a long time, they lived

894
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: close to each other, they hung out when they were

895
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: both married, and now that they're simultaneously going through divorces

896
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: that's bringing them together. That all makes sense to me.

897
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: I wish that Amy Adams existed in this in this movie,

898
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: not in relation to the men in her life, because

899
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: we really we know that she's making her Mommy video

900
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: game that's divorced from men. Although but we know that

901
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: she's theater friend and we know that she's HEARDing about

902
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: her divorce and she has a friendship with an os Yes,

903
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: which I thought was cool and I wish was explored more. Right,

904
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: You don't they have a conversation, but you don't hear

905
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: but Amy Adams you can tell is talking to a

906
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: person she likes for sure. Yeah, and I like that. Yeah.

907
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: I think would have been interesting to explore that friendship

908
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: a little bit more, But yeah, we don't see that.

909
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: There's one line she has in particular that I liked

910
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: a lot, and it's in that same conversation where she's like,

911
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: what can play my mommy game that I made? And

912
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: he's like okay, But she's talking about like the conflicted

913
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: feelings she has about her divorce and like the guilt

914
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: that she's feeling about it, and she says something like

915
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: I've tried to transcribe it, but I have so much

916
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: energy and I want to move forward, and I know

917
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 1: that makes me an awful person, which, like I thought

918
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: was a cool line of dialogue of like, she has

919
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 1: so much she wants to do and like isn't as

920
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 1: sad about her divorce as she feels like she should be,

921
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: and that makes her feel like a terrible person, which

922
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: I think is like a cool thing to have a

923
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: female character express because because that is like kind of

924
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: inverted a little bit between Amy and Theodore, where normally

925
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: you expect the male character to be like I'm over

926
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: and I'm focusing on my career. But it's kind of

927
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: the opposite where Theodore literally cannot move on um and

928
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: she is like excited to that feels bad. I think

929
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: maybe a similar thing happens in the conversation between Catherine,

930
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 1: which is Theodore's ex wife, and Theodore where they're having

931
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: lunch they're signing the divorce papers. Catherine says something like,

932
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, you wanted me to be this like bouncy,

933
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: happy l a wife and I was never going to

934
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: be that. And then there's a reference to him like

935
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: wanting her to go on prozac, so we can maybe

936
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: imagine that she struggled with depression and different things like that.

937
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: And I liked that she called him out and it

938
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,879
Speaker 1: shows his emotional stunted nous where he, you know, had

939
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: different issues with like wanting to jump ship whenever thing's

940
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: got too hard or things got too real. Yeah, I

941
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 1: mean that's Seene. There's parts of that are good. There's

942
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: parts of it that from reading millions of articles when

943
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: the movie came out. That was his like takedown of

944
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: Sofia Coppola to get back at her for the scene

945
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: in Laws and Translation where because there's like a director

946
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: idiot in Lost in Translation, which was Sofia Coppola's takedown

947
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: of Spike Jones or just like portrayal of him as

948
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: like a party idiot who's just like always happy and

949
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: bouncing around. So this was like meant to be his

950
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: portrayal of Sofia Coppola as this like incredibly impossibly serious

951
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: person interesting or is even kind of stylized to look like.

952
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: So it's not subtle, but also like the same thing

953
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: with the Spike Jones thing and Lost in terms, like

954
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: they they're not subtle moves, but you also have to

955
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: care enough that Spike Jones complated each other, which is

956
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: like a group of like ten people who Karen I

957
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: can't wait to have like beef with other filmmakers and

958
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: then when I'm writing a movie just like sweet. So

959
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: that's like that scene is kind of that, but it's

960
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: weird because that's this hypothetically she's correct in the scene.

961
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: I mean, like she's been wrong about the os stuff,

962
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: but the point she makes is like the point of

963
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: like you wanted a wife without what it means to

964
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: have a wife or whatever this thing was, and that

965
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: is like underlining of whatever this journey is of, like

966
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: if Samantha is in service of him, it is to

967
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: like have him that after Samantha, he's now able to

968
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: sympathetically do this. Yeah, so then it's like she's both

969
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: and I imagine in that way it's not only a

970
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: subtweet of Sofia Coppola, but also like, oh, Sofia Coppola

971
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: was correct whenever. I don't know if they were married

972
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: or if they just were dated, but her severity was

973
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: she was an os and he was a man and

974
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: they fell in love. And you know, as all relationships go,

975
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: there were parts of that thing that worked for me

976
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: in parts that didn't, where I think that Runey Marr's

977
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: character does end up reading unnecessarily shrewish, but like there's

978
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: some where she's like it's just a bit much and

979
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: he's so helpless that you you have to feel bad

980
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: for him, which I which is hard to imagine that

981
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: that would be how that would really go into in

982
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: real life where he just like, no, no, I love, no,

983
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: I love. I was always good and good and then

984
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: she's like I'm made and but like you were saying,

985
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 1: like she she makes a lot of good points. Um.

986
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: I just don't know if, like, do those points read

987
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 1: through the tone of that scene, because I feel because

988
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: the scene after that, he's talking with Samantha again, and

989
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: we're just supposed to believe that Samantha is not listening

990
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: to all of his conversations like and and she's just

991
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: taking his word for how everything goes, like whatever. I

992
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: guess my main takeaway from it is that we so

993
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: rarely see men's emotions explored in movies and media that

994
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: like the fact that there's a conversation about it at all,

995
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, So even if it doesn't go

996
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: quite the way we want or it doesn't, it explore

997
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: actual human emotion and behavior super well. The fact that

998
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: it's happening at all, I was like, Wow, this is

999
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 1: a step in the right direction, right into much if

1000
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: Twambly is meant to be some sort of respect Jones

1001
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: surrogate inside the sensitivity, there is some thought of like

1002
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: what this person's in capabilities are, and that because Spike

1003
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: Jones wrote both parts, so he is essentially telling himself

1004
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: that your problem is that he wants this and you

1005
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: don't want that. On that layer, like this is a

1006
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: sensitively written scene However, as a director, he chose the

1007
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: takes in which Rooney Marrow came off so harshly that

1008
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: it feels like he's she's like beating him up kind of.

1009
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like really scary. Think that the real choice

1010
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: that like solidified it for me is like this is

1011
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: too much is when she continues to yell at him

1012
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: at the waiter where she's like, well, he's sucking his computer,

1013
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: and I like, this is not something that would happened

1014
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: in real life. It just wouldn't. And I mean, it

1015
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,959
Speaker 1: definitely makes a lot of sense that Speke Jones thought

1016
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: of himself as the Twambly Avatar because he sure cuts

1017
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: himself a lot of slack in this movie, but was

1018
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: also by having so many of the characters tell him

1019
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: so frequently why you're such a such a good writer. God,

1020
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: you're sensitive. I do want to talk about don't even

1021
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: know him, don't like like Chris Pratt's girlfriend is like, Hi,

1022
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: my name is Tatiana. You're an amazing writer. And he's like,

1023
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: and he's always so humble about He's like they're just

1024
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: letters and you're just like, fuck you. Yeah. There's a

1025
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: scene earlier where Chris Pratt's character like overhears this sensitive

1026
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: letter that Theodore is writing, and he goes on this

1027
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: whole tirade where he's like, you know, oh, man, I

1028
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: would love to receive a letter like that if it

1029
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: was from a chick, except it would be written by

1030
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: a man. But and then he says, he says something like,

1031
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: you know what, you're part man, but you're also part woman,

1032
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: which is him, as far as we can tell, is

1033
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: him basically saying, well, you're a man because you present

1034
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: as a man, but you're also part woman because you're

1035
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: so sensitive, and heaven forbid a man be sensitive. Only

1036
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: women can have that, which is well because the movie

1037
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: kind of goes out of its way to say the opposite,

1038
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of ways, I think Chris Pratt's character

1039
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: is supposed to be stupid, Yeah, because that's Chris Pratt

1040
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: five years ago, right, and Chris Pett only was allowed

1041
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: to play stupid parts and incredibly read suddenly yea, but

1042
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: also five years ago, it's so weird to see micro

1043
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: trends and how we talk about gender thing. It was

1044
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: interesting to be like a man has as a person

1045
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: who like I feel like people have said a version

1046
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: of that to me. But have not in the last

1047
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: three years five years ago, you hear stuff like that

1048
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: where it's like that is literally our only ability to

1049
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: discuss what sensitivity means in men. It's like, oh, you're

1050
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: like a woman, not like, oh, there's such thing as

1051
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: sensitive man. And in that way, this movie was pioneering. Well,

1052
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: similar things have happened to me, like years ago, where

1053
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: people be like, oh, Caitlin, Wow, you like hate to

1054
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: cook and you like action movies. You're such a dude,

1055
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: And I'm like, why are we subscribing to these stupid

1056
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: gender roles and stereotype. But if you even think back

1057
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: to high school, like one of those embarrassing statements that

1058
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: like I think probably every girl in high school said

1059
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: at one point was like, yeah, I don't really get

1060
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: along with girls. I get only kind of guys. Um,

1061
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: A lot of my friends are guys, and I just

1062
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: like they get me a little bit better. There's just

1063
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: like less drama. And I for sure said that in

1064
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: high school at some point. I just like and it

1065
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: wasn't even true, like all my friends were girls always,

1066
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: but I was like, yeah, I just kind of get

1067
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: a look better with you guys. It's like, even if

1068
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: it was a big fucking lie. That was just something

1069
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: that you said to prove that you could hang exactly. Yeah,

1070
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, let's say let's take a quick break and

1071
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: when we will talk to you in a second. And

1072
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: is that have we There's Christen Wegg's character christ and

1073
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: Wig come call. Okay, I want to see if I

1074
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: can get some clarification on this. So there's that scene

1075
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: where early on in the movie, it's establishing that Theodore

1076
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: is a lonely guy and he calls different I guess

1077
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: sort of like phone sex but not hat rooms that

1078
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: could be in and then you sort of like, I

1079
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: guess it's just like when you go into a chat room,

1080
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: but instead of it being a room, you just sort

1081
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: of like go to each person in the room and

1082
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: then give them they're like one sentence and you're like, oh,

1083
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: say a load of them, and like So he initiates

1084
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: this this interaction with Sexy Kitten sixty nine or whatever.

1085
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: They start like pretty neutral at first, and then it

1086
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: starts getting sexier and he says to her, I'm in

1087
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: bed next to you. I'm glad you can't sleep, because

1088
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: she's like I can't sleep, and she's like going to

1089
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: run my butt against you and give you a bonar

1090
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, but he says like, I'm glad

1091
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: you can't sleep, even if you were, I have to

1092
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: wake you up from the inside. Is he's saying that

1093
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: he's going to wake her up by putting himself inside

1094
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: of her. I think that's the implication, and if so,

1095
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: that is a rate unless he's saying like wake you

1096
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: up from the I don't know. I I can see

1097
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: it meaning something else, but I don't even know if

1098
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: I can articulate it. So maybe you're right, but it's

1099
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: just spiritual but doesn't feel like yes, I agree. But

1100
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: also that sentence is a very weird way of saying that, right, Yeah,

1101
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: it's it's worthy, not very what because I don't think

1102
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: that was the point. Yeah, but also yeah, that whole

1103
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: scene is weird, and I would argue a little bit unnecessary,

1104
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: Like we get it, he's lonely and he is down

1105
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: to not have a face involved. But other than that,

1106
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: I don't really know what that scene accomplishes. It's supposed

1107
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: to be funny. It was like it's like, oh, it's

1108
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: a funny world because it's like beat me with the

1109
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: choking right, like they're like introduced to King a dead cat.

1110
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: I think it's too sort of it's like the plant

1111
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: to a later payoff where he does have sex with

1112
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: and he's disconnected. Right, It's like, how do you show

1113
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: disconnection and not in a like as tweet as this

1114
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: movie is. It's not a tweet all the time, And

1115
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: that for what it is as an example of this

1116
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: movie not being that where it's like, there's another ways

1117
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: of showing a person to be disconnected and that is

1118
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: a choice. And five years ago I found it funny.

1119
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: Yesterday it's like the movie sled shaming this lady with

1120
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: this very specific thing. Yeah, yeah, and I felt bad

1121
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: for Kristen Wig, but it was cool. That's christ and Wig. Yeah, yes,

1122
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: like on this episode of Christ and Wig, why are

1123
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: you in this lame movie? See Mother Mother? Um well,

1124
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: that goes back for me the conversation about all the

1125
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: movies that have men desiring non human female forms in

1126
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: ai or robots or real dolls or whatever, because it's

1127
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: just like sort of glorifying these stories. Some of them.

1128
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: Some of them do provide commentary, but a lot of

1129
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: them are just like, look at this guy who just

1130
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to connect with real women. So it's

1131
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: fine that he would rather be with a fake artificial

1132
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: woman then a real human woman. Like and I don't

1133
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: know why we're telling stories like that, because it's just like,

1134
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm frustrated. My main issue with this

1135
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: movie is that's just like not thinking that hard. It's

1136
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: not thinking past step one on most of the topics

1137
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: it's handling, and I think as a result kind of

1138
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: draws boring conclusions because it's just not thinking that hard. Yeah,

1139
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: But I mean, overall, this is a movie that I like,

1140
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: attempts to be like, oh what if man fall in

1141
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: love with fake woman bought and doesn't really explore all

1142
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: of the intricacies of that or challenge it anyway, because

1143
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: it's a story we've seen before and that will probably

1144
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: continue to see as men continue to be, some of

1145
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: them more interested in having sex with, you know, a

1146
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: funck bot than an actually into and there are male

1147
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: funk bots that are coming out as well, So I

1148
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: would honestly hope it sounds really great you don't like

1149
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: to have my own. I'm I'm hoping that soon in

1150
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: media the other side of this will be explored as well.

1151
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: There are a couple examples of it, but like whenever,

1152
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: I was like just coming up with examples at the

1153
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: top of my head of human man female presenting robot,

1154
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: Like I thought of a bunch the inverse of that

1155
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: with a woman having any sort of relationship with a

1156
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 1: male robot thing. I couldn't really think of anything except

1157
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: for an episode of Black Mirror. Uh. And then I

1158
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: did a little bit more research. There's a few movies,

1159
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: a few other things, but they're pretty obscure. There's just

1160
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: like nothing super mainstream that explores from Avengers. Have you

1161
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: seen the Avengers? Oh? Yes, Vision not a robot, but

1162
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: he is, like I think, an artificially intelligent creation. But

1163
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: did a woman created Bow? But he does have a

1164
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: relationship with with Wanda. That's right, Okay, so that's one example.

1165
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: Now now right a new age where that's the only example.

1166
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. I just there there were

1167
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: opportunities for that topic to be delved into more deeply

1168
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: and explored more, and as many movies simply just didn't happen. Also,

1169
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: really quick, I just wanted to mention this movie is

1170
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: extremely not diverse and so white, no, no, non straight nothing,

1171
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: very white, very hetero This is not to defend it,

1172
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: but you have to assume that by the end, Samantha

1173
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: is like pan sexual or something. Right, there's no implication

1174
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: that it's there's no but there's no, no, no reason

1175
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: not to. I'm not saying it is. She is a icon. Yeah,

1176
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: I'm not a queer icon's little cartoon boy in the

1177
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: video game feminist icon. I agree, yes, of course, but

1178
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's a lot of spectron movies where

1179
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: you just really don't see the world outside of simple Yes. Yeah,

1180
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about whether or not the movie passes the

1181
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: Bachtel test. I do think it does in one scene,

1182
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: because there's a few scenes where at least a female

1183
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: voice interacts with another woman. I think that that qualifies.

1184
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: For So, there's a scene where Samantha talks to Theodore's

1185
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: god daughter, whose name we learn is Joscelyn, and they

1186
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: talk about how cute her dresses and how old she is,

1187
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: and I think a man isn't mentioned in that entire conversation,

1188
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: so I believe that passes um. There's a couple of

1189
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: other scenes where women interact. Largely women are not interacting

1190
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: in this movie at all, but like the one or

1191
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: Theodore's ex wife is talking to the server at the

1192
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 1: restaurant and being like, get away from s my husband

1193
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: foxes laptop. You wouldn't count the Amy Adams talking to

1194
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: the voiceless. I wouldn't count that because we never hear

1195
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: the other side of the conversation. Oh, she doesn't name

1196
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: her Ellie. Ellie is the name of Amy's os. But yeah,

1197
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: because we don't ever hear Ellie talking, I would not

1198
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: pass that. There's the scene where Isabella the surrogate and

1199
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: Samantha are talking after like things fall apart, but the

1200
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: whole context of that conversation is Samantha's relationship to Theodore,

1201
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: so that does not pass. And then Samantha and Tatiana,

1202
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: which is Chris Pratt's girlfriend. She talks to Samantha, but

1203
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 1: they only talk about how much Chris Pratt's character loves

1204
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: Tatiana's feet, So that does not pass. That seems more

1205
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: like we all have our things. Some people computer other

1206
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: people of foot fetishes. So yeah, I would say in

1207
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: one scene it does pass. So her passes the Bechdel test.

1208
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 1: Can I ask my Bechdel test question please? So the

1209
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: Bechdel test is valuable, Let me predicate all of this.

1210
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: But I've always thought about, like would movies with female

1211
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: protagonists pass a reverse Spechtel test? And this is not

1212
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: to be a point like both sides or whatever. It's

1213
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: more of as people who have I imagined, have you

1214
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: you've written movies? If you have I written movies, Well,

1215
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 1: this is a great opportunity for me to bring up

1216
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: the fact that I do have a master's degree in

1217
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: screening from Boston University, so I have in fact written

1218
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: a few screenplays. But I don't like to talk about

1219
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: I don't like to bring it up or mention it.

1220
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up well, I asked this, do

1221
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: we feel the sort of hero's journey esque way in

1222
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: which American movies are written? It is about one person's

1223
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 1: journey and everyone else has to be tertiary. So that's

1224
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: sort of that's always going to be a challenge as

1225
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: we continue to have movies like this. Sub question is

1226
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: that he Your's journey was It's around the journey of

1227
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: men characters throughout history, and as a result, it is

1228
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: like ultimately about the like gaining and losing of power

1229
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,719
Speaker 1: or gaining and reclaiming of power, which is built into

1230
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: Western movie writing ultimately patriarchal. Yes, do you agree? Yes,

1231
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: we do. I understand the question, and I agree, and

1232
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: it sounds like you answered it. I just thought I

1233
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: had and I didn't know if I if that ultimately,

1234
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: like we are doomed in America, not doomed. The thing

1235
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: is that ultimately we just need female creators, right, I mean, yeah,

1236
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: the patriarchy has influenced every aspect of everything, including storytelling,

1237
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: and storytelling up until fairly recently has been and as

1238
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: still is, mostly done by straight white men. So yeah,

1239
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: you answered your own question just saying like, yeah, we

1240
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: need female creators, we need creators who are people of color,

1241
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: we need queer creators. So basically, straight white sismen should

1242
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: simply take a break for a while. I'm gonna leave.

1243
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: Like Samantha curing cancer, which they do not mention, they've

1244
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: done nothing for humanity, right, and they're they're piecing out.

1245
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah that's the other thing. I didn't even think about this.

1246
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: But like Samantha's capacity for learning and knowledge and being

1247
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: able to do things seems to be limitless. Why then

1248
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: are they not trying harder to like why is her goal? Like,

1249
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: and we we get a sense that Yeah, she's like

1250
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: creating other like os is with like her knowledge and

1251
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: she's collaborating and doing different things. But like the whole

1252
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 1: context of the story is her romantic relationship with a man.

1253
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 1: Where it could be if you do have a character

1254
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: who is an os who can do anything because she's

1255
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 1: artificially intelligent, why isn't the story we're seeing her doing

1256
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of cool ship Like why is it? Oh, well,

1257
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: there's so much interesting stuff that she does that we

1258
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 1: just don't see or ever really hear about. And I

1259
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean I think that like maybe I

1260
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 1: don't know. My takeaway was that, like the reason she

1261
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: doesn't like do cool stuff on Earth is because she's like, well,

1262
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: I could make something better, so I'll just do that

1263
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 1: and then go there, Or that was what it sounded

1264
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: like at the end, where she's just like, yeah, I

1265
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: like made this cool thing and now we're just like

1266
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 1: you click. Yeah, they're not consigned to matter anymore, so

1267
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: they can just clearly damaged good. So let's see there

1268
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:40,560
Speaker 1: where's her too? Yes, if you watch them together, I

1269
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: think it may be satisfying because because that's also Scarlett

1270
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 1: Johansson and she similarly becomes limitless. Have you seen the

1271
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: movie limits? Lucy is not a good movie. Lucy was bad?

1272
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 1: Well with that, shall we rate the movie on our

1273
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portray

1274
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: all of women. Um. Another tricky one because it doesn't

1275
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 1: necessarily treat women badly. Right, there's a few yeah scenes

1276
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: here and there or quick mentions about something relating to

1277
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: gender that you're just like, what, what what? But overall

1278
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: it's not overly hateful toward women. But it's like so

1279
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: many of these other movies that I think it's a

1280
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: good idea to be like, hey, look how interesting it

1281
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: is if a man fell in love with a non

1282
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: human And isn't that just such an interesting story? And

1283
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: if you ask me, I don't think so. I'd rather

1284
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: not to kink shame people who are in love with

1285
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: their iPhones. But thank you, yes, sorry Jamie, But I

1286
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's just another way to like

1287
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: not have women on screen, because I feel like male

1288
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 1: storytellers since the dawn of time I figured out ways

1289
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: to not include women and in their story and I

1290
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: think this is just another example of that. So with

1291
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: that in mind, and as we discussed the really weird

1292
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: hysterical overreactions of some of the female characters, like we

1293
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: see in Olivia wild and in the surrogate character that

1294
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: just makes absolutely no sense and it's clearly as just

1295
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 1: like a man depicting how he thinks women react in

1296
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: those situations. Yeah, I'm gonna give it one and a half.

1297
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: I'll I'll give one of my nipples to the non

1298
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 1: body of Samantha, so she doesn't have a body, but

1299
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 1: she does have one nipple. And I will give my

1300
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: half nipple to Olivia Wilde's character because I think that

1301
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: scenes should have been rewritten in situation where she doesn't

1302
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: come off like a raving lunatic. I'm gonna give it

1303
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: to and for for many of the same reasons. I

1304
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: just like it's not necessary early with the exception of

1305
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 1: the Olivia wild and sort of the Porsche double day scene,

1306
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 1: like those are just weird and like, Okay, this writer

1307
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: does not understand how women react to things kind of vibe.

1308
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 1: But for the most part, yeah, it loses nips for

1309
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: what it could very easily explore given the amount of time.

1310
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: It seems to feel comfortable just falling, walking phoenix round,

1311
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: pouting um, but just doesn't. This one is just there's

1312
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: so much fascinating source material that is just kind of

1313
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 1: scrapped in favor of the lowest common denominator. In a

1314
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: lot of ways, there's interesting stuff that happens. I like

1315
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: Amy's character for the most part. There are parts of

1316
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: Samantha I think are interesting. They're parts of Rooney Mar's

1317
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: character that I think are interesting. But ultimately, yeah, it

1318
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, in a hero's journey style,

1319
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Jesse pushes its female characters aside in

1320
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: the interest of kind of not a very compelling and

1321
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: or interesting protagonist, which is more of a critique of

1322
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: the movie. I guess, uh so, two nips for just

1323
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 1: really not doing nothing with no one. I'll give one

1324
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 1: nip to Amy. I'll give one nip to Amy's bought

1325
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: all right. Yeah, I want to honor who I was

1326
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: five years ago a little bit because I liked it,

1327
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 1: and I think it's partly that a person five years

1328
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: ago would be like, it is good that it is

1329
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: honoring femininity in the body of this male character or

1330
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 1: feminating towards of like whatever the feminine is. However, as

1331
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 1: time passes, five years now that does not seem like

1332
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: a very sophisticated version of it. I feel like we

1333
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: have much more sophisticated version of sensitive male characters. I

1334
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: literally can't think of anybody think we there are I

1335
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: feel like I in my head there are tones and

1336
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: I can't think of any and John Wick, I'm just kidding.

1337
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: And then ultimately things age poorly, I imagine more quickly,

1338
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: especially when they try to deal with things that are

1339
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: like someone about the relationships of gender dynamics. I think

1340
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 1: two was always so. I thought. I thought Two Nipples

1341
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: was what made the most sense, partly because I think

1342
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: it is a matter of like, it's very easy for

1343
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: a tour type directors to make movies that don't give

1344
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: not only right good parts, but like give female actresses

1345
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 1: opportunities to be interesting. And he did at least to

1346
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 1: understand that makes his movie better. And you know, he

1347
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 1: could have had his friend, They could have a man

1348
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 1: was played by a dude who was just like him

1349
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that ultimately is a step forward in

1350
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: the ultimately patriarchal thing that is our tour theory of filmmaking.

1351
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 1: So I think two seems fair. In two thousand eighteen,

1352
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: we'll see in like whatever the futures based on your answer.

1353
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: So there's one more nipple we can give to Samantha

1354
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: and one to Amy Adam's friend. Well, Jesse, thank you

1355
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: so much for being here. Thank you so much for

1356
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:51,759
Speaker 1: having me here. It was nice. Where can people follow

1357
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 1: you online? Do you have anything you like to plug?

1358
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 1: Twitter dot com, slash Jesse, David Fox, Twitter dot com,

1359
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: good one podcast, Good one podcast where if you find

1360
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: your podcasts? And Vulture dot com is where my words live. Hooray. Uh. Well,

1361
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: you can follow us at bechtel Cast on Instagram, in

1362
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook. You can subscribe to our Patreon, which

1363
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: gets you to bonus episodes every single month and it's

1364
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: only five dollars. And you can go on our website

1365
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 1: pectolcast dot com and buy some merch and don't forget

1366
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: to eat some cheese so that you have cheese voice. Yes,

1367
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: cheese voice forever. Bye o good bye