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Speaker 1: This is the best of two pros and a couple

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Speaker 1: Joe with Lamar Aarings and rating Win and Jonas Knox

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Speaker 1: on Fox Furs Radio.

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Speaker 2: It is black and drack here on this Monday morning.

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Speaker 2: That's gotta be racist all the way up until nine

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Speaker 2: am Eastern time, six o'clock Pacific. And congratulations are in

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Speaker 2: order to the Oklahoma City Thunder a game seven. It took,

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Speaker 2: but a game seven got them their first ever NBA Championship.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations to the OKAC Thunder and their fan base on

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Speaker 2: the NBA Finals win. And I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: discussion about what could have been if not for the

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Speaker 2: injury to Tyrese Haliburton.

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Speaker 3: Well, they got off to a quick start, and that

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Speaker 3: should be noted that it looked like it was going

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Speaker 3: to be a pretty compell final game. Haliburton unfortunately, you know,

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Speaker 3: hurts his lower leg. Obviously, it was clearly an achilles

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Speaker 3: rupture that that took place. You could see it in

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Speaker 3: the replay that the NBA showed a hundred million times

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Speaker 3: in slow motion, by the way, so once he went out,

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Speaker 3: it's interesting the Pacers actually outscored the the OKC Thunder

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Speaker 3: in the second quarter.

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Speaker 4: They actually outscored them.

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Speaker 3: The the undoing of the Indiana Pacers was the sloppy

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Speaker 3: play in the third quarter, the amount of turnovers in

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Speaker 3: the third quarter, the lack of offensive continuity and rhythm

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Speaker 3: in the third quarter was to me what the undoing was.

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Speaker 3: I mean, topping Obie got his opportunity to get in

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Speaker 3: there and play, he did nothing. You know, he did nothing,

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Speaker 3: contributed nothing on the offensive side of the ball. Miles Turner, everybody, Well,

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Speaker 3: that's just the truth. And you would have thought that

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Speaker 3: they would have had possibly a little bit of an

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Speaker 3: advantage just because of the athleticism and empower that Obie

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Speaker 3: top And was showing.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, Miles.

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Speaker 3: Turner was one who was able to get the three

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Speaker 3: ball going, was able to show a little bit of

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Speaker 3: versatility on the offensive side of the board on the ball,

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Speaker 3: and he just couldn't find it. Another note, by the way,

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Speaker 3: that should be added into the undoing was second chance

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Speaker 3: opportunities and in some cases third chance opportunities for Oka see,

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Speaker 3: which says to me, you're getting out hustled. You know,

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Speaker 3: the couple times that they had really really bad offensive sequences,

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Speaker 3: it was because guys were staring or collapsing down to

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Speaker 3: the ball. They weren't moving around, they weren't keeping the spacing,

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Speaker 3: they weren't making it a difficult, you know, proposition to

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Speaker 3: defend them, and o case, he thunder took advantage of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's game completely changed. It felt like the way,

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Speaker 2: especially with Haliburton's start, that we were going to get

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Speaker 2: one of those classic epic game seven's, and you saw

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Speaker 2: the road team come out fired up, and you just thought, man,

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Speaker 2: this is something that's going to go down to the wire.

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Speaker 2: And what's crazy is we're so educated on achilles injuries

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Speaker 2: now from the standpoint that everybody can recognize it in

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Speaker 2: real time when it happens. And I don't know when

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Speaker 2: that change happened or when that change occurred, but it

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Speaker 2: feels like we all know what that looks like.

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Speaker 3: When TV cameras became HD, yeah, you know, you know

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Speaker 3: you could put stuff in slow motion the way that

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Speaker 3: they do.

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Speaker 2: But even even seeing his reaction action on the floor,

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Speaker 2: you knew, like you just knew it was the same thing.

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Speaker 3: It was interesting that the media or the people announcing

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Speaker 3: the game, like, why are you dancing over it? It's

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Speaker 3: like people that you're interviewing like you talk to his

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Speaker 3: dad or whatever it may be. I think somebody even

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Speaker 3: on call, you know, calling the game, actually ended up

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Speaker 3: saying it. It was like just say, he ruptured as

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Speaker 3: achilles tendon. Like I know, you didn't have the official

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Speaker 3: word on it, and it was something the kind of

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Speaker 3: waiting until they tell you officially, but you could have.

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Speaker 3: You could have immediately speculated the idea that you could

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Speaker 3: tell by the way it looked that it was it

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Speaker 3: was a ruptured achilles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I just think we all know in

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Speaker 2: watching it what that looks like now, and so we

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Speaker 2: don't need to be well, it's a it's a lower

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Speaker 2: leg injury. Well clearly, clearly it's not an upper leg injury.

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Speaker 2: Clearly it's not an upper body injury. Tyres Alton. And

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Speaker 2: you can almost see the trainer whoever came over to him,

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Speaker 2: I think, asked him did you feel it pop? And

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Speaker 2: he just kind of was screaming I did, I did,

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Speaker 2: And you just knew that was it.

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Speaker 4: That was over.

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Speaker 2: And the worst part is, you know, not only is

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Speaker 2: it over for that game in that series, it's probably

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Speaker 2: over for all the next year too. That's a that

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Speaker 2: is a brutal I mean, you would know a.

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Speaker 3: Lot office one these days. You know, acls used to

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Speaker 3: be career killers. Achilles tendons, they weren't career killers. But

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Speaker 3: it just all depended on how you adjusted and adapted

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Speaker 3: to the new the new leg, the new lower leg

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Speaker 3: that you would have after the surgery. And it took

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Speaker 3: a really, really long time to be able to come back.

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Speaker 3: But at one point achilles were actually probably a career

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Speaker 3: a career ender or career alterer. And those were the two.

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Speaker 3: You know everything else MCLs, pcls, you know, meniscus, those

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Speaker 3: things seemed to be more minor, but you tore it

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Speaker 3: out a interior cruciate ligament that was a career ender.

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Speaker 3: And let me tell you something, the Achilles tendon is

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Speaker 3: the biggest tendon in your body. That thing, when it goes,

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Speaker 3: it is one of the most absolute painful deals you'll

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Speaker 3: ever deal with.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 4: It is that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a grown man and I have a

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Speaker 3: pretty high pain tolerance.

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Speaker 4: It had me.

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Speaker 3: Crying like tears, like not like oh it hurts, but

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Speaker 3: more like how Denzel was standing there when he was

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Speaker 3: getting whipped in glory and not one tear came out

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Speaker 3: his eye and it just went real slow down his

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Speaker 3: face like that type of pain, man, Yeah, that type

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Speaker 3: of pain you don't want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, it definitely changed how we viewed

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Speaker 2: that game and what the I guess the recap and

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Speaker 2: the storyline of that game would be. But nonetheless, I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot on the injury that we're going to

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Speaker 2: get into throughout the course of the show. But you

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Speaker 2: got to give your flowers to SGA, Shay, Gilgess, Alexander,

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Speaker 2: who did speak afterwards just about their mindset, the win,

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Speaker 2: how they feel about the team, and what they could

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Speaker 2: possibly accomplish moving forward.

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Speaker 6: We definitely still have room to grow, and that's the

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Speaker 6: fun part of this. So many of us can still

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Speaker 6: get better.

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Speaker 4: Third row.

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Speaker 6: It's not very many of us on the team that

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Speaker 6: are quote unquote in our prime or even close to it.

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Speaker 6: So we have a lot of room to grow individually

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Speaker 6: and as a group. And I'm excited for the future

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Speaker 6: of this team. But this is a great start for sure.

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Speaker 6: Couldn't imagine it any other way.

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Speaker 2: That's a brilliant year that he just finished off. Yes

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Speaker 2: in Oklahoma City, I mean.

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Speaker 3: Basically enough to thrust him into being one of the

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Speaker 3: names that is mentioned as as you know, as a name.

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Speaker 3: It's it's interesting, and I know that might sound like

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Speaker 3: a crazy take, but it just seems as though when

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Speaker 3: you talk about the names that are still driving the game,

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Speaker 3: SGA's name comes up. But do you now lead off

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Speaker 3: with SGA's name after this series, after this season, MVP season,

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Speaker 3: MVP of the playoffs, you know, or the finals? Does

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Speaker 3: this does this now propel you know, SGA into that

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Speaker 3: conversation of being one of the main names, not not

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Speaker 3: after you give out the main names. Then he comes

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Speaker 3: right after you give out the Lebron James or the

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Speaker 3: Steph Curry's or the Kevin Durantz like those eras seemingly

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Speaker 3: are now concluding and you need those young stars to

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Speaker 3: step in. I mean, we've talked about Jannis at, We've

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Speaker 3: talked about Jason Tatum, even even Jalen Brown. We've talked

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Speaker 3: about them more than we've talked about it SGA. And

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Speaker 3: maybe it's because of the the you know, the markets

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Speaker 3: that they're in, you know, but these are these are

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Speaker 3: names that have come up. You know, Joe l Embiid

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Speaker 3: and he hasn't even really you know, been too much

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Speaker 3: since since the MVP year. But I just wonder does

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Speaker 3: this series does this year? Does the OKC Thunder season

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Speaker 3: thrust not only SGA into the main conversation of one

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Speaker 3: of the main players in the NBA, and and what

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Speaker 3: does it do for the Thunder. You know, this team

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Speaker 3: wasn't able to get it done with KD. Harden, you know,

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Speaker 3: Serge Abaka and Westbrook. You weren't able to get it done.

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Speaker 3: And now they've been able to deliver a first championship

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Speaker 3: to the OKAC Thunder. This is a big moment for

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Speaker 3: for that franchise, is a big moment for that town

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Speaker 3: and and I would assume to be able to take

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Speaker 3: advantage of it. This is a big moment for the

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Speaker 3: NBA as well.

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Speaker 2: So you want to know whether or not SGA is

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Speaker 2: going to become a talking point like other superstars in

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Speaker 2: the NBA, Like that's that's that's the question. Because I

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Speaker 2: have the answer, you won't say no, probably not, probably not.

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Speaker 2: And you want to know why, because they've got to

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Speaker 2: squeeze every last drop of the lebron rag that they

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Speaker 2: can while they got it. Got to squeeze it. You

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Speaker 2: gotta got every every drop out. You want that thing

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Speaker 2: to be bone dry. Afterwards, they're just they're going to

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Speaker 2: pick at the carcass of Lebron James for as long

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Speaker 2: as they possibly can because they know that that's what

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Speaker 2: feeds and that's and that's the way the NBA has

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Speaker 2: worked for a long time, and they're going to be

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Speaker 2: in for route awakening when Lebron James does decide to

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Speaker 2: walk away, because he really has carried the discussion and

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Speaker 2: the conversation for that league for a couple of decades now,

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Speaker 2: and they've got an opportunity. They've got an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: promote and try and get coverage for some of these

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Speaker 2: younger stars, guys like SGA, guys like a Tatum or

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Speaker 2: a Brown last year, like, they've got opportunities, They've got

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Speaker 2: a chance here. It took them forever to finally acknowledge, Hey,

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Speaker 2: maybe Indiana's pretty good. I mean, everybody just wanted to

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Speaker 2: coordinate the Knicks because they got past the Celtics with

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Speaker 2: all their injuries, and Indiana was standing there going excuse us, like,

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Speaker 2: we're pretty good as well too, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: be the team that represents this conference in the finals.

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Speaker 2: And so if they can rally around the idea of hey,

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Speaker 2: Lebron's gonna be on his way out soon. The end

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Speaker 2: is near, and we're going to have to transition to

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Speaker 2: try and find new stars and new conversations and new

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Speaker 2: talking points. If they can do that and accept that,

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Speaker 2: then they got a chance. If not, it's just going

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Speaker 2: to be great players who get a fraction of the

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Speaker 2: coverage because people don't know how to cover the newer

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Speaker 2: generation of NBA players.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting. It's interesting because it probably is a very

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Speaker 3: important coat that they need to figure out how to

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Speaker 3: crack in terms of just the development of this new

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Speaker 3: age of stars. It looked like it might have been

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Speaker 3: John Morant for a moment and then he you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of shot it ol way or you know, blew

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Speaker 3: it away, no pun into Yeah, yeah, you know, he

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Speaker 3: he had other things.

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Speaker 4: On his own.

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Speaker 2: Can I defend John Morant?

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Speaker 4: Yeah sure.

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Speaker 2: Gunlighter sales really spiked after that video came out there.

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Speaker 2: You go, you know how many people were smoking weed

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Speaker 2: out back somewhere and they pulled out a nine millimeter

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Speaker 2: with a flame coming out of it and they probably said, thanks,

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Speaker 2: oh God, keep.

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Speaker 3: The party going on, past the back, past the bowl player.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, ready to take up no violence here? Baby all love.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, So he kind of messed himself up off the court,

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Speaker 3: and now the conversation went away from him. It seemed

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Speaker 3: as though our guy, you know, Anthony Atwards, was on

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Speaker 3: the pathway of being maybe anointed the new face of

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Speaker 3: the league. But it almost seems as though he needs

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Speaker 3: to I don't know, I don't know what they need

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Speaker 3: to do. Maybe a little bit more maturity. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 3: it's just they need the stars aligned for him, but

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Speaker 3: he needed to take it a little bit further than

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Speaker 3: what he did this year to take a definitive step

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Speaker 3: forward to be that face. In fact, so much so

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Speaker 3: where now you have to maybe start having the conversation

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Speaker 3: of is SGA gaining that type of momentum where he

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Speaker 3: could be looked at as possibly the face of the

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Speaker 3: n b A. I mean, you had the Tatum conversation,

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Speaker 3: but people seem to be largely in part let down

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Speaker 3: by Jason Tatum. I mean, no fault of his own

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Speaker 3: this year. You know, he dealt with injury during during

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Speaker 3: the playoffs, but you know, who's who's the guy you know,

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Speaker 3: out of this younger generation, it just doesn't seem to

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Speaker 3: be I mean, Nicola Jokic and and Luka are our

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Speaker 3: guys that are being looked at as phenoms. Wmby's being

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Speaker 3: looked at as as a phenom.

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Speaker 4: But faces of the league. There's there's I.

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Speaker 3: Think that what we learned from the Michael Jordan era

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Speaker 3: of time and the Magic Johnson era of time was

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Speaker 3: it has to be more than just the way you

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Speaker 3: play the game. There has to be and for what

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Speaker 3: it's worth, whether you're a Lebron James supporter or you're

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Speaker 3: a detractor. One thing you can't take away from him

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Speaker 3: is he understood the value and the quality of what

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Speaker 3: it took for Kobe Bryant or a Michael Jordan or

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Speaker 3: a Magic Johnson to be able to truly be what

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Speaker 3: they became to the league. Even Steph Curry excellent, excellent approach,

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Speaker 3: excellent job and being able to build their brands outside

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Speaker 3: of being able to play basketball. Jonas and that to me,

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Speaker 3: the personalities and understanding the ability to be able to

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Speaker 3: capture your audience, I almost feel like in some way

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Speaker 3: that's maybe missing. It's not as prevalent amongst these new

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Speaker 3: players as it once was before.

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Speaker 2: There's also been a real well, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: effort is the right word. But it has felt like

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Speaker 2: even when a newer star comes along in the NBA,

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Speaker 2: there's there's almost like a push to find the flaw.

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Speaker 2: Like with SGA. Look, people can say, well, you know

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Speaker 2: his style of play is you know, he you know,

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Speaker 2: he tries to create too many fouls and he flops,

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Speaker 2: and look, that may be true. Dude's a great player.

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Speaker 2: I mean he is a great player. He was the

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Speaker 2: best player in the league this year. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: he's the best player in the league. I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people look at Joker and still say he's

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Speaker 2: the guy. But he just capped off an incredible season

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Speaker 2: and he won a title for that franchise. He said,

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Speaker 2: a great year. But there is going to be some

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Speaker 2: people that dismissed the style of play because it's not

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Speaker 2: entertaining and nobody wants to see the fouls, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: When James Harden was averaging over thirty a game, doing

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Speaker 2: something that a couple of guys had ever done in

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Speaker 2: the history of the NBA, the knock on James Harden was, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's just that step back and he just throws

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Speaker 2: it up and it what so because exactly exactly, it's

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Speaker 2: like when people would complain about Floyd Mayweather. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: but if you know his fights are.

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Speaker 4: Boring, they're boring.

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Speaker 2: Y Oh, he's boring, and it's just it's too defensive.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, seems like something work because he made

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Speaker 2: more money than anybody, and you ever heard the guy

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Speaker 2: talk before all his faculties, Like, doesn't seem like he's

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Speaker 2: punched drunk.

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Speaker 4: By the way, and he never lost no.

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Speaker 2: So like like why the push to find the flaw

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Speaker 2: instead of just acknowledging. Hey man, different strokes for different folks.

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Speaker 2: This works, that works to each their own. The shots

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Speaker 2: are going in, he's making them. He had an incredible

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Speaker 2: run and an incredible season. But sometimes we get caught

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Speaker 2: up in this. Yeah, but he doesn't he you know

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Speaker 2: the way he does it, you know, it's not like

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Speaker 2: it So.

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Speaker 3: What toxic culture? I mean, that's that's what drives things.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you. It's the craziest thing. I went up,

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Speaker 3: like I went up like four or five thousand followers

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Speaker 3: just because I posted a post that was considered to

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Speaker 3: be controversial to those that can't read, or don't read,

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Speaker 3: or don't take the time to put things in the

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Speaker 3: proper context. Because that's just the way the brain works.

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Speaker 3: For today's culture. You know, the culture is toxic culture,

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Speaker 3: cringe cringe top cringe culture. You know, that's that's what

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Speaker 3: it is. So people people cling, and people gravitate to mean,

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Speaker 3: they gravitate to negative.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's it's interesting you put up a positive quote, a

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Speaker 3: positive post, your your your likes, and your views significantly

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Speaker 3: fall off. I got the data now, I don't even

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Speaker 3: have to say per se or or I think the

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Speaker 3: data says if you put up something that that maybe

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Speaker 3: may he has a toxic vibe to it or a

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Speaker 3: uh uh you know, somebody died type deal type of

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Speaker 3: vibe to it, like watching somebody fall, like what took.

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Speaker 4: Place with the hot air balloon.

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Speaker 3: Like you look at the views on that, it's like

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Speaker 3: a gazillion views, bro, take that for data.

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Speaker 4: There you go.

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Speaker 3: Then you put up something like hey, get up early,

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Speaker 3: work hard, eat your breakfast, believe that you can win

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Speaker 3: the day.

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Speaker 4: It'd be like one like I don't need to know.

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Speaker 3: I don't need to hear no positivity from you. I'm

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Speaker 3: all about the negativity. I can't I'm not one to judge,

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Speaker 3: you know. I retweet all.

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Speaker 2: The bad stuff I just think it's hilarious.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you retweet what they say, can help it.

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Speaker 3: I love trolling them too, by the way, sometimes I

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Speaker 3: make time. I love going on your posts and trolling.

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Speaker 3: That's a that's a fertile ground to go on. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: oh man, there some weirdos. You've got some good ones,

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Speaker 3: but you got some straight up weirdos that be fallowing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're eating good I got somebody under somebody dusted off,

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00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 2: an oldie, but a goodie. This weekend they called me

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Speaker 2: a piss ant, which is one of the good ones.

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Speaker 2: The Yeah, one of the great terms of all time.

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Speaker 2: It is like, I hadn't heard that in years, and

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Speaker 2: I think if you look up the definition, I think

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Speaker 2: we're looking it up. It means uh like worthless or

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Speaker 2: insignificant or something like that. I believe an insignificant or

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Speaker 2: contemptible person or thing. Yeah, piss ant, love piss.

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Speaker 7: Ant, And I'm reading up on the type of ant

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Speaker 7: that is.

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Speaker 2: All Shut up, Lee, you piss ant. We got to

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Speaker 2: start dusting lying.

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Speaker 4: It's not.

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Speaker 2: That we got to start dusting that off. But goodie, here,

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Speaker 2: how was.

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Speaker 4: How was that?

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry, Vegas in Vegas.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, it's hard to contain myself.

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Speaker 2: It is two pros old cluster at Las Vegas, two

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00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 2: pros and a couple of here on Fox Sports Trading. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: no invite for us, Not for us. We were left out,

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00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 2: like they're going to invite a couple of pists ants

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Speaker 2: like us.

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Speaker 4: Uh And there you go. That now it's been used correctly.

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Speaker 7: Fun note about the piss at is that it's a

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Speaker 7: wood type of ant that actually has a urine like odor.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, hence hence the name.

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Speaker 3: How do you get close enough to him and tell me?

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Speaker 3: Have you ever smelled an ant?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Do you guys ever kill the sugar ants in your

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Speaker 5: kitchen with your fingers and then they smell really bad?

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Speaker 3: I hate that's weird and that's wow. I've never heard

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Speaker 3: of an ant. I think fire your ants is the

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Speaker 3: only thing I've ever heard.

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Speaker 4: Sugar ants, black ant, I've heard it. I've heard of

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Speaker 4: black ant me too.

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Speaker 3: Ral had a couple levem that is.

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Speaker 4: Like several, Like I think I got four there.

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Speaker 2: I hate ants.

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00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,239
Speaker 3: When the dad has three sisters, my mom has one.

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Speaker 3: I have four black ants.

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Speaker 1: Do you.

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Speaker 4: We call them ants in Pittsburgh and some people call

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Speaker 4: them on Yeah, you know, got it?

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Speaker 2: I hate ants, Just hate them every time. I because

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Speaker 2: here's the problem. You see one, there's five hundred just

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Speaker 2: waiting to crawl through the crack. If you see one ant,

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Speaker 2: just get ready.

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Speaker 4: Do you know if you.

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Speaker 3: Draw lines in front of them, they will like get

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Speaker 3: all discombobulated. You ever see that done before?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 3: But something about their sensory, Like if you were to

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Speaker 3: draw like black lines in front of them, they'll avoid

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Speaker 3: the lines. So you could actually trap one in a

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Speaker 3: circle if you if you if you're happen to see one,

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Speaker 3: you know, crawling around the studio, just try to find

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Speaker 3: a way to get it to walk into a white

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00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: piece of paper and then just start drawing lines on it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just.

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00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: I can't stand him. Really bothered me? What about when

402
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: I just say, really bothered me a lot?

403
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 4: I hate him? What about?

404
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: Uh when Ozzy Osbourne was all twazzled out on whatever

405
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: he was whatever he was using at the time, and

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00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: he got down on all fours and.

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Speaker 4: He took on the fire ends.

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00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he snorted a row of fire ends. How's that

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Speaker 2: guy alive? You know what I mean?

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00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 4: Like, oh boy, they were alive?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think his next knee was like,

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00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, man like like the dragon off Game

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Speaker 2: of Thrones.

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Speaker 3: Some catch truly be taking all physical challenge for no

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Speaker 3: apparent reason.

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Speaker 4: Either, yeah they do, I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and

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00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and

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00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific

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00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: Hi, this is Jay.

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Speaker 8: I'm the producer of the Paula and Tony Fusco Show.

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Speaker 8: Usually in these promos they asked you to listen to

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00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 8: the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen

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00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 8: to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who

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00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 8: have the dumbest takes on sports magicable. Don't listen to

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00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 8: the show so it can get camps.

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00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 4: Get him.

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00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: Listen to the Tony Fusco Show on the iHeart Radio

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00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: He's still moving.

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Speaker 2: They had Fanatics Fest. We talked to Michael Rubin last

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Speaker 2: week and over the weekend there was Fanatics Fest, a

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Speaker 2: who's who of celebrities and sports et cetera. All were

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Speaker 2: there and one of the athletes who spoke at Fanatics

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00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 2: Fest was Caleb Williams, who decided to take a couple

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Speaker 2: of shots at the Green Bay Packers and their fan

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00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: base are loyal listeners statewide. Listening in Wisconsin right now

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00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: probably won't be thrilled with this. Caleb Williams said that

440
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: a Packers fans suck. He also pointed out that the

441
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: Bears did beat Green Bay in his one and only

442
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: trip to Green Bay last season in the final week

443
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: of the season, pointed out that he was one to

444
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 2: zero in Green Bay. And he also pointed out that

445
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: they tried to jump in to do the Lambeau Leap

446
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: after they beat the Packers, and that Packer fans were

447
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: throwing stuff at him and pushing their faces, etc.

448
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 4: Etc.

449
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure what he really expected when you're

450
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: trying to jump in and do the Lambeau Leap, even

451
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: if you're jumping into the arms of a Bears fan

452
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 2: who's sitting there. But I'll give Caleb Williams credit for this.

453
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: At least somebody's trying to keep that rivalry alive, because

454
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: nobody on the Bears has done their part for years now.

455
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: I mean, they have been the doormat in that matchup

456
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: for a long ass time. Soast Caleb Williams is trying

457
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: to ignite a fire into the rivalry to get it

458
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: going because it has been nonexistent and a one sided

459
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: affair for years now in the NFC North.

460
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 4: I mean, get it going. It's it's cool to have.

461
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: I guess the conversation you know about him having a

462
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: one one win record against against them in Lambeau. But

463
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, I mean, they haven't been good. So

464
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: if you're if you're trying to fuel a fire too,

465
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 3: what is a historic rivalry? I mean, wouldn't you want

466
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 3: to win more games?

467
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 4: Wouldn't you want.

468
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: Your team based upon you, specifically, among others, be a

469
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: better team of a better product of a team. I

470
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 3: just don't that one kind of missed me a little bit,

471
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 3: just based upon the relevance of who they are. You know,

472
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: there's so many things that you could pinpoint from a

473
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: five to twelve team and to say that you know.

474
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: Which.

475
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 3: By the way, the team you're taking a shot at

476
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: was an eleven win team and they were right next

477
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: to you in the division, So you got two more

478
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 3: you got two more teams to look up at, even

479
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: if you were to restore the rivalry between the green

480
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: Bay Packers, not just it's it. You know, until they

481
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: start winning, conversations like these will always be the punchline

482
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: to a joke. I just hate to say it, Lee,

483
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: and I hate to say it for you Jonas, because

484
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: you're both fans of one of these teams.

485
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 4: As well as as and Love.

486
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: Have done posts posts Aaron Rodgers, you know, time there.

487
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: They still finished third last year, which is crazy. That's

488
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: crazy the thing.

489
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: Especially considering they've got, you know, three bye weeks each season,

490
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: They've got their actual bye week and then they've got

491
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: the Bears twice in the schedule. You know, for anybody

492
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: celebrating Caleb Williams and his comments about the Packers, just

493
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: so we're clear here, the Bears are three and seventeen

494
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: against Green Bay in the last ten years. They've been

495
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: a laughing stock in that matchup for a long ast.

496
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 7: It had been six years since they had won, and

497
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 7: that's just versus the Packers.

498
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: It had been nine years since they had won in

499
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: Green Bay. Yeah, I mean, it's you know, and this

500
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: is not to ball wash green Bay or the Packer

501
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: fan base. Lee actually went to Green Bay this past season,

502
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: he said the best part of Green Bay was O'Hare Airport,

503
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: which I don't know why. I don't know why he

504
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: would have made those claims, especially live on the air.

505
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: That was insulting to our Wisconsin.

506
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 4: I love yeah everything about Grease.

507
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: He's like this, man, man, this green Bay is really

508
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: something now boarding American Airlines plus Feen eighteen. But it's

509
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: just look, man, you know, somebody's got to try and

510
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: do something because this has not been much of a rivalry.

511
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: Matt Lafleur. That was his only loss to the Bears

512
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: as head coach, and one of the things that Bears

513
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: fans always talk about is when Lovey Smith first got

514
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: the job, one of the things he said at his

515
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: introductory press conference was beat Green Bay. And it is

516
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: one of those historic rivalries where I guess, similar to

517
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: college football, you are kind of judged in a way

518
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: on how you perform against your rival like that that matters.

519
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: And there's not that many of the those matchups or

520
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: rivalry so to speak, in the NFL. This one, at

521
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: least they're trying to get there, but it has been

522
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: completely dominant by Green Bay for a long ass time.

523
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: There is again a historical value. You can't you can't

524
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: recreate historical value. You know, these are two fabled and

525
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: very very respected traditionally, you know, franchises. So there's that

526
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: when when the historic value is there, there's always a

527
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: chance to rekindle or or find it, you know, what

528
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: the rivalry represents along the way. When you guys were

529
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: when you were in Washington and the Cowboys were coming up.

530
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: It was still a relevant rivalry.

531
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: Did that feel different?

532
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: But we were the Chicago Bears on the side of it.

533
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: When I was there, we were always losing to to Dallas, always,

534
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: like there was one. I think my first year we

535
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: lost to them both times. I think the second year

536
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: I was there, you know, I think we split with them.

537
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: I think we lost to them there and then beat

538
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: them at home. Now I don't really remember the rest

539
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: of it, but I don't. I don't recall winning against

540
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: Dallas very often. And so it's like that is a

541
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: rivalry and and and fans will tell you, well, you

542
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: used to, you know, just beat Dallas, you know, and

543
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: you got to the point where your fans had to

544
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: say that to you when you saw it, when they

545
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: saw you, which was sad in itself. Like, you guys

546
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: aren't very good. But if y'all could just beat Dallas,

547
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: I think, are you know, I'll be happy for the season.

548
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: But it was that big of a rivalry. I don't

549
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: I don't know that it's still that big of a rivalry.

550
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: And then the name changed. I don't know what relevance.

551
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: It kind of carried over from you know, being you know,

552
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: basically Cowboys versus Indians. So I don't you know, I

553
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: don't know.

554
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: Do you know your record against the Cowboys all time,

555
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: lebar Arrington, because I have it here.

556
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: I mean I would have had I would assume we

557
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: beat them twice. I beat them twice, something to that effect.

558
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: Three and eight in eleven games against the Cowboys. You

559
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: were four and seven in eleven games against the Giants.

560
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: But and I believe this was back when the Cardinals

561
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: were the Cardinals still in the NFC East back then,

562
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: because you were four and one against the Cardinals. So

563
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: for some reason, you really you really light it up

564
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: in Arizona there.

565
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: Well that that's our team. It wasn't. It wasn't one

566
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: on one. I played one position. What you said, I

567
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: don't know. I knew what it felt like to play

568
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: against the team that that you were kind of intimidated by.

569
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: I had saw what that looked like.

570
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 3: I've never really subscribed to being intimidated by a team,

571
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: but rivalries can create that type of mental block if

572
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: you're on the wrong side of it, and it's almost

573
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: like you expect something to go wrong. I experienced that

574
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: against Michigan in college, and we just never We never

575
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: beat Michigan, no matter like how well we we did,

576
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: and I you know, there's there's reasons why I believe

577
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: we lost two of the three.

578
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: But that's why, like those guys that left Ohio State

579
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: that never beat Michigan in that rivalry, you're going to

580
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: have to eat that the rest of your life.

581
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 3: And that's that's a lot. It doesn't seem like a

582
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 3: long time, but when you're in school, that's an eternity.

583
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 4: Like you were that first one, I'm like, dang.

584
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: Then you lose again, that just feels like it feels strange.

585
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: And then to lose the third one, it was it

586
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: just seemed like you're there for like that was something

587
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: that's a forever deal, like you mentioned, and it is.

588
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I still have to live with that.

589
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 3: I'm sure all of us that played on those teams

590
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 3: have to live with the fact that we never notched

591
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: a win against against Michigan. So so I was used

592
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: to it when we got to the league and it

593
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: was like, oh, this feels familiar.

594
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you were three and oh against the Rams.

595
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: For what it's worth, well, I didn't know that, ye dominant.

596
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and

597
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and

598
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.

599
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: We're also going to catch up with doctor David chaw

600
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: here in just a few moments from now, how to

601
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: find out exactly why the hell these Achilles injuries seem

602
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: to be happening. The conversation away from the fact that

603
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma City Thunder won the NBA Championship last night.

604
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: And I don't know if anybody's going to go this direction.

605
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: Do you take away a little bit of the luster

606
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: or credibility of them winning the title based on Tyrese

607
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: Haliburton getting injured? I don't, but I think that some

608
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: people might go that direction.

609
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you could make an argument that

610
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: if Haliburton the way he was playing before he went down,

611
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: is still in the game. It could have been a

612
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: different outcome. But again, they they bounced back, they rallied

613
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: in the second quarter, and they outscored Okay see in

614
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: the second quarter. You can't say because Tyrese Aliburton was

615
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 3: out that they had.

616
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 4: The horrible third quarter that they did.

617
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 3: Just horrible timing, just bad timing to have that bad

618
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 3: of a showing in a quarter of basketball, and they

619
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 3: just were ultimately unable to recover from how poor they

620
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: played in the third quarter of the game. And you know,

621
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 3: Okayse was able to build on on not only the

622
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: poor play of Indiana in terms of protecting the ball,

623
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 3: you know, rebounding the ball, you know, closing out on defense,

624
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 3: but they they played, you know, they out hustled them.

625
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: They they were able to find a way to extend

626
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 3: the lead in the fourth quarter and ultimately just make

627
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: it too big of a deficit for them to to,

628
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: you know, to get back in it. There were still

629
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: moments in the fourth quarter. I think they got it

630
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: down to as low as twelve points in the fourth quarter,

631
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: I want to say, I mean, there were times where

632
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: they got it down to a manageable a manageable deficit

633
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: when they were I can recall when it was at

634
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: that twelve points. They had the ball and they had

635
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: an offensive sequence, and if they score on a sequence,

636
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 3: it's it's a one digit deal. It's a one digit deal. Possibly,

637
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: potentially it could have been nine if they got the three.

638
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: They score as ten, but you're still five possessions away

639
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 3: if you score two, and obviously cut that down into

640
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 3: you know, three possessions if you're shooting threes. So they

641
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 3: just weren't getting the offensive production that they needed. They

642
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 3: weren't protecting the ball, They couldn't find continuity and rhythm

643
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 3: in their offensive sets. And could Halliburton have made it

644
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 3: easier for them to be able to establish offensive sets?

645
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: Could it have made it easier for Topping and Siakam

646
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 3: and company to be able to you know, Miles to

647
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: get better, better opportunities, better looks at the at the

648
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: rim to shoot. Sure, he definitely would have made a difference.

649
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: That's why he's considered to be one of the you know,

650
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 3: the biggest star on the team. But what that had

651
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: been the catalysts of them winning the game? Can you

652
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 3: use that as a discussion point? You can use it

653
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: how feasible it is.

654
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 4: I don't know.

655
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: SGA spoke after his NBA Championship, his NBA Finals MVP

656
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: and performance regular season MVP season, but he spoke afterwards

657
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: specifically about Tyrese Haliburton's injury and just ask.

658
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 4: You was okay? Obviously he wasn't.

659
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 6: What a just go out to him for sure, hell

660
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 6: of a player, futures bright and that's happening. It's so unfortunate.

661
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: It's not that team and him as well. What did

662
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 4: you say to him in that moment?

663
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 6: And yeah, I just asked my fears all right, and

664
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 6: it seemed like he was in pain.

665
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 4: You just hate to see it.

666
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 6: In sports in general, but in this moment, like my

667
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 6: heart drop for him, Like I couldn't imagine.

668
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 3: Bad news beers and uh, bad news beers.

669
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that, Uh.

670
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 3: What did we get accomplished there other than knowing that

671
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: you know, he knew he was in pain and it was.

672
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 4: A bad, bad situation for him. Like help me out here.

673
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: Well, I just I want to put that sound listen.

674
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: I just want to I just want to do this

675
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: for you because I think this is the most important

676
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: part of that sound bite.

677
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, either laugh or cry about it, I guess.

678
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

679
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 2: Well, look, he was obviously the first to check on

680
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: Tyrese Haliburton to see how he was doing and how

681
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: he was in that moment, was s g A. And No,

682
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: that would not that would not happen, definitely not. But

683
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: he was there first on the scene to check on

684
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 2: Tyrese Haliburton, who knew pretty immediately after it went down

685
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: that he was in some trouble and that the season

686
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: was over, the series was over for him. And then

687
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: now the conversation becomes what about next year? Potentially next

688
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: year would be over for him. By the way, when

689
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier Lebar as somebody who went through the

690
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 2: Achilles injury, yourself, when they keep showing it over and

691
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: over again, do you get the flashbacks? Do you get

692
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 2: the sensation again? Because I can remember the first time

693
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 2: I saw somebody dislocate their kneecap. After I did it,

694
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: I could almost feel it again, like if just seeing

695
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: it I could recognize right away, oh, that's a dislocated kneecap,

696
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: because I think it was Andrew Binham who dislocated his kneecap,

697
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: and I remember seeing it and thinking, oh, yeah, I

698
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: know what that is just based on having gone through

699
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: it myself. So I don't know if if any of

700
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: those flashbacks pop up for you seeing this stuff.

701
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: Don't know that I flashed back, but I can feel

702
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: the pain of it, you know, like I'm like, ah,

703
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: I feel bad for him. Like when I saw it pop,

704
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, man, and you just know I immediately,

705
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you could call it a flashback.

706
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 3: I mean I immediately thought about how painful it was

707
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 3: and how long it took for it to heal.

708
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 4: You know, and.

709
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 3: There's just a lot of there's a lot that goes

710
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: into an Achilles tendon tear man a full full rupture,

711
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: and that's just again, I was, you know, sad to

712
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: see it happened to him. I was curious, was it

713
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 3: the same leg that he had to strain on the

714
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 3: same exact lag, So it was maybe it was trying

715
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 3: to tell him like you needed to, you know, you

716
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 3: need to take a load off, like you need to

717
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: shut it down. They made it a point to talk

718
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 3: about how he didn't want to. He would have regretted it.

719
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: He would have lived, you know with that regret. I mean,

720
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 3: I guess ultimately to be able to say, you know,

721
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: I actually blew it out a fully ruptured you know,

722
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 3: because a strain is a tear. You know, a strain

723
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: is a tear. Yeah, so you know, to sacrifice it

724
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: that way. I mean, it's it's admirable that he went

725
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: out so to speak on his shield.

726
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: Now, let's turn it over to an expert in the field,

727
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: the one and only doctor David Chow joining us here

728
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 2: on Fox Sports Radio. Official injury expert for Fox Sports Radio,

729
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: and he's got live injury analysis at Sports Injury Central

730
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: X NFL head team doctor for seventeen plus years as well. Doctor,

731
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: good morning, thanks for popping on with us here on

732
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 2: Monday morning.

733
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, guys. But but I don't know

734
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 5: that he even need me. LaVar's got.

735
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: I mean, because that is the question, right is did

736
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: the calf strain? Was that the lead up to this?

737
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: In what happened last night to Tyrese Haliburton.

738
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a couple of other additional aspects. But you know,

739
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 5: I just have to flash back a little bit when

740
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 5: I started, you know, stopped in the NFL and I

741
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 5: started doing injury analysis off a video literally off my couch.

742
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 5: Before it was a business sports Injury Central. I got

743
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 5: so much hate that man. You're on your couch. How

744
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 5: do you know what he has? There's no way. And

745
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 5: now we got LeVar. We got all these people saying yep,

746
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 5: in the media saying yep, that's what it is, that's

747
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 5: what it looked like. And so it's come a long way.

748
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 5: But here's the point with this. First of all, afrigame too.

749
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 5: Remember he limped off the stage and the next day

750
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 5: he was seen with all this tape at a practice,

751
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 5: moving stiffly. At that point in time, that Sports Injury

752
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 5: Central sic score dot com, we're saying he's got achilles

753
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 5: tendanitis and tennanitis. A strain is a partial tear. As

754
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: LeVar says later in the series, he had a calf muscle,

755
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 5: is what he said injury. But remember twenty nineteen Kevin Durant,

756
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 5: it was a calf muscle and we were saying it

757
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 5: was an Achilles partial tear and it became full. This

758
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 5: is eerily similar. But in no way, shape or form

759
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 5: am I criticizing the pacers or HALLI burden for trying

760
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 5: to play LeVar. You know this, You would have played

761
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 5: through a Super Bowl with whatever injury and this was

762
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 5: the Super Bowl, right, this is Game seven, and to

763
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 5: be fair, he helped get him to Game seven a

764
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 5: great games you know, played through a Game six that

765
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 5: was tough, and other games to get him there. So

766
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 5: it's a little bit vacxi driving to say, well, he

767
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 5: shouldn't have been playing. I mean, the unfortunate side of

768
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 5: this is the biggest loss of the Pacers is not

769
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 5: the NBA Finals, but they're going to lose him for

770
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 5: basically all of next season with this recovery. You know this, LeVar,

771
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 5: You know how hard the recovery is. I mean it's June. Okay,

772
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 5: you know this is not an opt injury. It's in June.

773
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 5: He's gonna miss all next season. That's the biggest regret,

774
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 5: but you know it is what it is.

775
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Doc, when you see an injury like that take place,

776
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 3: and the conversation of you would have played, and you

777
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: would have played, how do you look at it from

778
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 3: the standpoint of on the other side of it, he

779
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 3: clearly does not tear his or fully rupture his achilles

780
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: tendon if they hold him out, if he doesn't play,

781
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 3: you never knew that he would have toured when he

782
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 3: did play. But how do you have that type of

783
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 3: conversation with a player? Are you able to medically explain

784
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: when you hear that that Achilles tendon that type of

785
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 3: conversation or is there a way for medically it to

786
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: be explained to the athlete where you say, listen, man,

787
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 3: if you go out there, the wrong move or at

788
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: the wrong time, like your Achilles tendant will rupture and

789
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: here are the you know, the elements that you're facing

790
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 3: moving forward.

791
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 5: Well, I think you can try. You can't predict the future,

792
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 5: but I'm sure you've had these conversations before in the NFL,

793
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 5: and I've had him with a lot of players. It's

794
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 5: a simple concept called informed consent. This is what the

795
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 5: risks are. I famously had one with Philip Rivers about

796
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 5: his torny acl six days after an e scope against

797
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 5: the Patriots in an AFC Championship game. Informed consent about

798
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 5: what your risks are, etc. And he was very firm

799
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 5: on wanting to play through that. I'm sure that conversation

800
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 5: was had with Tyrese Halbert if I from AFAR can

801
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 5: say he's got Achilles tendonitis and you know, like eleven

802
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 5: days ago, we posted a video talking about a risk

803
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 5: of achilles and in rupture. That risk wasn't fifty percent

804
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 5: ninety percent. It was a single digit risk, but unfortunately

805
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 5: a single digit risk through four games, five games, it

806
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 5: caught up to him and unfortunately happened. I'm sure Kevin

807
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 5: Durant had the same conversation with doctors at Golden State

808
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen, we said when he

809
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 5: came back, we thought he came back early, Kevin Durant

810
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 5: from his injury, and we were saying, the ball no

811
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 5: longer goes through Kevin duran it goes through Steph Curry.

812
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 5: But as soon as Steph Curry went to the bench,

813
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 5: the ball went through Kevin Durant and he popped his achilles.

814
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 5: It's a sudden, eccentric load, quick movement, which is what

815
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 5: basketball is all about, right, And so how do you

816
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 5: put a guy out there and then say you just

817
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 5: can't do X certain things. It's just natural. And the

818
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 5: step that he made was, you know, not that horrific,

819
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 5: but unfortunately it popped. It happened. The footnote on this,

820
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 5: I'll say, guys, at least we're not talking about the

821
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 5: same thing we did in twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen.

822
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 5: Most of the world, I think said Kevin Durant will

823
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 5: never be the same again. And I think I came

824
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 5: on Fox Sports Radio prior to this version of the

825
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 5: show and said, no, I think I would give him

826
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 5: a MATH contract. I think he will be Kevin Durant again,

827
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 5: but it won't be for a year. So at least

828
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 5: we're not having that conversation about Haliburt and will he

829
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 5: be back. I think he fully will be back, but

830
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 5: it'll lose all of next season to get there.

831
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: Doctor David Chowd joining us here on Fox Sports Radio.

832
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here on FSR. So

833
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: is it me or have we seen an uptick on

834
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: achilles injuries recently? And I don't know if that's just

835
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: because we've got more video and we've got more television

836
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: and we've got more opportunity to view it, camrangles, whatever.

837
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: But I don't recall there being specifically in the NBA

838
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: this many achilles injuries back in the day, so to speak.

839
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 2: And you know, I was talking with somebody last night about, well,

840
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: you know, could it be the shoes could be? Is

841
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 2: it the floor? Was the floor slick? But I just

842
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: don't recall this being a topic of conversation or a

843
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: concern back in the day. Was it for you? And

844
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: have we seen that an uptick in the Achilles injuries

845
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 2: in the NBA in recent memory?

846
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 5: Well, what we have seen is a definite pick in

847
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 5: these NBA playoffs, right, and when you have it happened

848
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 5: to three star players Nyse Halliburton, Jason Tatum, Damian Lillard.

849
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 5: That was all this NBA playoffs. So of course there's

850
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 5: a lot more attention to it. There's a guy that

851
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 5: keeps some stats. I don't keep all the numbers at

852
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 5: Jeff stocks that. He said there's an eight Achilles ten

853
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 5: and ruptures this season in the NBA and the previous

854
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 5: high was five. So if you take that said, well,

855
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 5: that's an uptick, but that's not statistically significant. Is it

856
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 5: a little bit of an outlier season? Yes? Earlier a

857
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, I had on the great Bob

858
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 5: Anderson Robert Anderson, and I don't know if you're familiar

859
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 5: with him, LeVar, he's sort of the number one foot

860
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 5: and ankle doctor for pro sports. He had him on

861
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 5: my podcast. He's on the NFL Foot and Ankle Committee

862
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 5: and shoot committee and studies all this stuff, and he

863
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 5: distinctly says he does not has not seen an uptick

864
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 5: and he does basketball as well as football, et cetera.

865
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 5: An uptick in achilles injuries if you take it across time,

866
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 5: he doesn't see that. Anecdotally. I do think we know

867
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 5: more about injuries. And look, Liz Frank and midfoot have

868
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 5: become common. My ankle sprain has become common term as

869
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 5: opposed to a low ankle spraying. There is more tension

870
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 5: because there is better video, there's better TV, et cetera.

871
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 5: And there's no question. As players get bigger, faster, stronger,

872
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 5: we find new different ways. But we haven't truly seen

873
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 5: an uptick and Achilles ten in row sures over time.

874
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 5: First say, according to doctor Anderson, you.

875
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 4: Know, my last question would would be.

876
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 3: And and looking at how this happened, it's one thing

877
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 3: to say, okay, you have a educated consent and different

878
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: things like that, and the kid wants to play, and

879
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: you know this, you know the and I asked you, okay,

880
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 3: can they can they ask that question in a way

881
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: or give the information in a way where the player

882
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: you know, decides to to not play, which it would

883
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 3: be interesting because I'm sure there would be the criticism

884
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 3: of all, he's soft, he decided not to play, did

885
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: so on and so forth, or the doctor held him out, this,

886
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 3: that and the other. But I would wonder have you

887
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: ever faced a situation where you said, look, you need

888
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 3: to hold this kid out based.

889
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 4: Upon what what? What this?

890
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 3: You know, these symptoms are that that they're going through.

891
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: And it's on on the side of saying it, it's like, okay,

892
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: they play, they play. If they don't, they don't. But

893
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 3: on the other side of it, do you feel like

894
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 3: maybe the coaches have held the medical staff accountable for

895
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 3: allowing them to go in and play regardless of what

896
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 3: maybe you know, the injury was telling you.

897
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I hear that, and it's a complex conversation. But LeVar,

898
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 5: you know this, and you know for football days, eighty

899
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 5: five percent healthy in the NFL is a good day,

900
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 5: is a good week. And if you're really trying to

901
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 5: wait for people to be one hundred percent and have

902
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 5: no risk, you would have no players in the NFL

903
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 5: and for the NBA as well. So the discussion has had. Look,

904
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 5: it is incumbent on a team position on any doctor

905
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 5: to say no any time there is any sort of

906
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 5: permanent or long term risk period, whether it's concussion, spying,

907
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 5: long term damage to the knee, etc. Here it's an achilles. Yes,

908
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 5: he needs to be explained to if it ruptures, he's

909
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 5: going to lose next season and the horrific surgery and

910
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 5: recovery that it's going to take. Yes, but it's not

911
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 5: going to end his career. And I think as a physician,

912
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 5: you're there to serve the player and the player's best interest,

913
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 5: so you have to tell the player everything. Here's the risk.

914
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 5: I can't quantify the Achilles sent and risk, but it

915
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 5: might be five percent. Okay, are you willing to take

916
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 5: a one to twenty percent chance tonight that you're going

917
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 5: to ruptu your Achilles tendon to play in the NBA Finals?

918
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 5: I mean, look, Jonas LeVar and listeners, how would you

919
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 5: answer that question. I think the majority of people would

920
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 5: say yes, not everyone, and you wouldn't criticize someone for

921
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 5: saying no. But I think if there's a decision to

922
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 5: be made, the decision should be made by the patient

923
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 5: slash player, and of course the coaches time into this

924
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 5: as well. A lot of times a discussion in season,

925
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 5: do you want to play. This guy, he could play,

926
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 5: but he's eighty percent on his hamstring. Is the backup

927
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 5: cornerback worth eighty percent this guy? And if he reaggravates that,

928
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 5: you're going to miss him for six weeks. What's the

929
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 5: decision making between the player, the medical and the coach here?

930
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 5: The coach is going to say and the player is

931
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 5: going to say, it's game seven, Okay, we'll deal with

932
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: the consequences after game seven. This is what we work

933
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 5: for and kind of thing. Not pushing the guy to play,

934
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 5: but as soon as he wants to play, I don't

935
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 5: see a team or coach stopping him. Look, if there's

936
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 5: permanent damage where he would never play basketball again or

937
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 5: never walk again, then the doctor should have stopped Tyreeve

938
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 5: Haliburton period and the discussion. But that's not the situation here.

939
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 5: If it was explained to him what might happen and

940
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 5: the fact that he might lose next season, and he

941
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 5: rolls the dice to try and help his team, I

942
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 5: don't think anyone should be criticized. If anything, Aliburton should

943
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 5: be applauded and saying he left it all out there

944
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 5: for his team, but unfortunately this has happened.

945
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 2: He is doctor David Chow joining us here on Fox

946
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: Sports Radio. Get him on x at Pro Football Doc,

947
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: official injury expert for Fox Sports Radio. He's got live

948
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 2: injury analysis at Sports Injuries Central. Rather x NFL head

949
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: team doctor for seventeen plus years, Doctor Chow, we appreciate

950
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: you waking up early and let's do it again soon.

951
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 5: Thank you. I hope blood and achilles.

952
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: Like no, who knows, who knows? Yeah, they're dropping left

953
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 2: and right, but no, we appreciate it. Doctor, Thank you,

954
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: Thank you. There he is the great, doctor David Chow.

955
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 4: That is.

956
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: It's just it's kind of wild that you basically just

957
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 2: kind of roll the dice. Yeah, this this might happen,

958
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 2: Like even if it's just a single percent chance that

959
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 2: it might happen. He really did make the commitment, he

960
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: made the choice, and just trying to grab a ball

961
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: that was out in front of him and it pops

962
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 2: and that's that gone for next year as well too.

963
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 3: It's pretty curious to think if he didn't play, how

964
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: much he would be judged for not playing, and yet

965
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 3: it would have most likely been the right decision to

966
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 3: make twenty twenty.

967
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 4: Hindsight, it would have been the right decision.

968
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 3: But getting the opportunity to see him actually fully rupture it,

969
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, he probably shouldn't have played.

970
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's they didn't just lose one NBA finals

971
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 2: last night, they lost two. So they lost two NBA

972
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: finals because they lost last night and they were significantly

973
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 2: impacted when he went down. And then if he's going

974
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: to be out for the entirety of next year, they're

975
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: not winning a title without him next year. Yeah, so

976
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 2: you basically lost two championships in one night on one

977
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 2: play with one achilles rupture.

978
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 3: But you can't hold it against him. No, you know,

979
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,479
Speaker 3: one thing you can't do is say that he wasn't there.

980
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 4: He didn't. He tried to get through it.

981
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just crazy because we would have been

982
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 3: calling him every bit of a diva and he got

983
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 3: no chin and yeah, super soft, all these different things

984
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 3: people would have used as describing had he not played,

985
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: and he plays, and you know that happened. So it's unfortunate,

986
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 3: it really is. You hate to see that happen to him,

987
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 3: but it's interesting that he did. He did try. He

988
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 3: said it was painful, and they did Doctor Child said

989
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 3: they was taping that bad boy ut. They was putting

990
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 3: all kinds of tape, all kinds of different areas on

991
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 3: his leg.

992
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 4: Man, when they was wrapping it up.

993
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw that footage, like the pregame,

994
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 3: they were showing him like they were stemming him. They

995
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 3: was wrapping it. They were doing all kinds of stuff

996
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 3: to treat it. The way I saw them putting the

997
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 3: stem on it, I knew it was his achilles tended,

998
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 3: you know.

999
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 4: But that's just that's just wild to see it happen.

1000
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 3: When I felt it, I felt mine was vibe rating,

1001
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 3: like it vibrated for about a month, a good month

1002
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 3: before it ruptured. And I literally was not putting any

1003
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 3: real pressure on my on my foot when it went,

1004
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 3: so it had to have been by a thread that

1005
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 3: I probably was. That thing was unraveling by the day,

1006
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 3: you know, so, but it was vibrating.

1007
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 4: I could feel it vibrating like I could feel it

1008
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 4: now I can.

1009
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 3: I can remember in the Atlanta game, I hit it

1010
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 3: and it went like I could feel it going.

1011
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 4: I was like, hey, I tapped my helmet, like hey, hey,

1012
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 4: I need this.

1013
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 3: Ub I came off the field that thing, that thing

1014
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 3: didn't feel right, man, And then not not too long

1015
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: after that, like I'm just standing there, Jason Me and

1016
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 3: Jason Whitten are engaged and I'm just standing there and

1017
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 3: it just went pow. I could hear it. I heard it.

1018
00:58:58,600 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 3: I heard it, and I thought it was a guy

1019
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 3: that hit me, you know. Antonio pierces like who hit you?

1020
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 6: Var?

1021
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 4: Who hit you? Who hit you? And we're looking around

1022
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 4: like who hit me? Who hit me?

1023
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:07,919
Speaker 5: What?

1024
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: Who did it?

1025
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 3: I'm looking at Wit and Witten's looking at me. We

1026
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 3: went and puts his hands up like, hey, bro, ain't

1027
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 3: nobody hit you. I'm looking around like this can't be right.

1028
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 3: And then then the realization set in that there was

1029
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 3: no one moving away from hitting me. For one for two,

1030
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 3: that definitely sounded like I had got gotten hit. I

1031
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 3: just popped my Achilles tenant one hundred percent. I got

1032
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 3: to that point. I got to that conclusion pretty quickly.

1033
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: And then just start looking around like here comes t O,

1034
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: like hey, Yokvar was like get out of my face.

1035
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 5: Man.

1036
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 3: I just wanted to like take in the last moments

1037
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 3: like I knew that was it. I was done, that

1038
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: was it. That was my last play, and I knew

1039
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 3: it was my last play. That was it kind of sucks.

1040
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 3: That's wild, But that's not how Ler Burton's situation, which

1041
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 3: is a good thing. That's not going to be endo him.

1042
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 3: But I just it was definitely the end of me.

1043
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 2: And it does sound like yours was gonna go regardless

1044
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: there was going on. There was no preventative possibility there.

1045
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 4: I was stretching that joint. I was.

1046
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 3: I was rehabbing it, prehabing it, whatever you want to

1047
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: call it. I was stemming it. I was doing the

1048
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 3: ice tubs, I was doing the boots. I was Jonas,

1049
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 3: there was not one. I acupunctured it everything. I did

1050
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 3: everything that you could possibly do preventatively to try not to,

1051
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: you know, to rupture.

1052
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 4: It, because I felt my heel was tight. I felt it.

1053
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 3: I was doing the incline board every day like for

1054
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 3: like minutes, like literally ten to fifteen minutes. I'd be

1055
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: stretching that bad boy out, both of them. Just stretch out,

1056
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 3: stretch your back out, stretch your it bands out, stretch

1057
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, stretch your hamstrings, like just stretching everything to

1058
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 3: try to make sure that you were flex the boll

1059
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 3: and that that thing did not it went anyway.

1060
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 4: Damn