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Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to

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Speaker 1: know we're ready for you. Here are just a few

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Speaker 1: of the people at Metro to tell you how we're

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Speaker 1: doing our part to keep writers safe. Cleaning before you're found,

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Speaker 1: Hans out of no mask, no Metro need one. We

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Speaker 1: have a few extras at Metro. We're doing our part

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Speaker 1: to keep the DC area moving. Find out more at

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Speaker 1: well mata dot com slash doing our part California where

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Speaker 1: this past week thousands of people were massing on beaches

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Speaker 1: and very close quarters. Simple question, is not safe if

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Speaker 1: it's done with social distancing. Yes, if it's not done

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Speaker 1: with social distancing, no little. Earlier on the Armstrong and

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Speaker 1: Getty Show, we quoted a piece on the Hill dot

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Speaker 1: com by Dr Scott Atlas of the Hoover Institution that

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Speaker 1: the data is in stop the panic, in the total isolation.

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Speaker 1: And indeed Dr Atlas joins is now. He's the David

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Speaker 1: and Joan try To Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution,

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Speaker 1: Stanford University and a member of Hoover's Into the Hoover

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Speaker 1: Institutions Working Group on Healthcare Policy. Dr Atlas, how are you, sir?

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Speaker 1: Doing well? Thanks for having me good. It's my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: It's been too long. So first of all, speaking of

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Speaker 1: eminent publications. Will get to your piece in the Hill

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Speaker 1: in a second. But the New York Times is out

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Speaker 1: with the story just this morning alleging that the White

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Speaker 1: House has new projections and indeed the death rate from

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Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen is set to rise steeply, and that

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Speaker 1: what do you make of that if you had a

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Speaker 1: chance to see that, Well, I haven't had the chance

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Speaker 1: to see it, and I try not to have to

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Speaker 1: defend what someone else has written, but I can say

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Speaker 1: that we we we know there will be more people

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Speaker 1: to die, because if you look at the numbers of

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Speaker 1: people in serious condition, we know there are thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of them will die, there's no question. But you

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Speaker 1: have to remember that the death from this does not

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Speaker 1: occur until three to four weeks after the transmission infection.

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Speaker 1: So because someone dies this week or five days from now,

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Speaker 1: that is not a reflection of a new infection. That's

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Speaker 1: a reflection of the infection three or four weeks ago. Right.

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Speaker 1: And And another problem I have with the article and

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Speaker 1: some of the things other people have said lately, as

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Speaker 1: they're talking about the rise in cases, and the right

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Speaker 1: the number of cases is utterly unknowable because we've had

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Speaker 1: such an enormous rise in testing. That's exactly right. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we can say it another way, which is that we

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Speaker 1: know the number of cases is going up the more

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Speaker 1: we test. By definition, right, exactly so, based on everything

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Speaker 1: you've seen, where are we on the curve on suppressing

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Speaker 1: this thing, on moving toward normalcy? And where should we be? Well,

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Speaker 1: we know several things since this began. We have the evidence.

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Speaker 1: Number one, we know who to protect. We know that

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Speaker 1: the vulnerable people are older people. Typically, these are the

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Speaker 1: people with underlying diseases that get hospitalized and have a

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Speaker 1: much higher risk of dying. We know that uh people

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Speaker 1: are also being hospitalized in that group. Younger people, healthier

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Speaker 1: people have a very little, if any risk of a

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Speaker 1: serious illness requiring hospitalization. We know the curves have flattened.

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Speaker 1: We're not in the beginning anymore. We understand the whole

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Speaker 1: goal of the policy originally was to see the curves flattened.

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Speaker 1: Now we're talking about two curves hospitalizations per day, and

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Speaker 1: that's per day. We're not talking about cases, because cases,

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Speaker 1: as we know, are going to be revealed by more testing,

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Speaker 1: that's not really a relevant statistic. In fact, we know

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Speaker 1: half the people who get the infections are entirely asymptomatic

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Speaker 1: in the overwhelming majority our mild disease cases. So the

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Speaker 1: protection of the vulnerable is the targeted appropriate policy. See.

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Speaker 1: And we know two other very important things. One is

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Speaker 1: based on the isolation policy, and that is there has

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Speaker 1: been a complete stoppage of medical care for people without

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen pandemic impacts, and so we have stopped essential

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Speaker 1: critical healthcare. People are dying because they're not getting their chemotherapy,

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Speaker 1: they're not getting their organ transplants, they're not getting their

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Speaker 1: brain surgery, and what's worse, they're not bringing their children

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Speaker 1: in for immunizations. People are not getting cancer screening. Biopsies

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Speaker 1: of tumors that are potentially cancer are not getting done.

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Speaker 1: This is a massive catastrophic healthcare crisis being created by

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Speaker 1: the policy itself. And then the other thing that we

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Speaker 1: know is that, based on decades of medical knowledge about immunology, virology,

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Speaker 1: and infectious disease, viruses are when they are low, low impact,

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Speaker 1: they get in set the in fact of a lot

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Speaker 1: of people people develop antibodies that is immunity in that

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Speaker 1: immunity in the population is the way that the whole

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Speaker 1: population breaks the chain of contagiousness into including protecting vulnerable people.

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Speaker 1: That is the exact reason why we give widespread immunizations,

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Speaker 1: for instance, to set up population immunity. That is the

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Speaker 1: reason why scientists are excited about transfusing antibodies from people

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Speaker 1: who've had the infection to people who might get or

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Speaker 1: in trouble with the infection, because those antibodies are presumed

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Speaker 1: to be protective. Do we know that antibodies in this

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Speaker 1: are protective yet? No, we don't know, but it would

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Speaker 1: be unexpected that they're not, and you have evidence, actually

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Speaker 1: work in progress evidence that that that they probably are.

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Speaker 1: And so, by the way, we have decades of knowledge

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Speaker 1: not just about viruses, but about coronaviruses. And this is

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Speaker 1: the same family. Now this is not this is its

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Speaker 1: own virus, but in the coronavirus family, we know from

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Speaker 1: decades of experience that there is protection for roughly one

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Speaker 1: to two years. It's it's expected that antibis are protective.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole point of even developing an immunization for

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Speaker 1: this disease itself, right, am I corrected. The current best

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Speaker 1: opinion of science is that the repeat infections that we've

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Speaker 1: heard about people who have gotten over the thing and

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Speaker 1: reinfected were probably false positive tests. Well, because if this

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Speaker 1: then can't be defeated by our own immune systems, even

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Speaker 1: if after we've had it and gotten over it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's truly terrifying. Well, we shouldn't be terrified about anything,

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Speaker 1: first of all, because public policy should never be impacted

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Speaker 1: by fear. It must be based on the science, the data,

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Speaker 1: medical knowledge, and simply logic. Okay, so that's point number one.

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Speaker 1: Point number two, there's sort of a frenzy about this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this idea that we need a vaccine to reopen, and

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Speaker 1: we have to realize there's some magic wand out there

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Speaker 1: for a vaccine because most many vaccines are not protective.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example, the flu vaccine. With the

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Speaker 1: flu vaccine, if you look it up on the CDC

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Speaker 1: website itself, it's only forty effective. That's point number one

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Speaker 1: about the flu vaccine and a vaccine. Point number two,

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Speaker 1: Even with the flu vaccine in the world, every single

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Speaker 1: flu season, three hundreds of six hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: people die from the flu with the flu vaccine being given. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we have to be very careful about somehow there's

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Speaker 1: some magical vaccine out there, not to mention it's going

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Speaker 1: to take many, many months to get a vaccine. This

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Speaker 1: is not happening tomorrow, and implement the you know, giving

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Speaker 1: the vaccine up. So, I mean, there's all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that are being done that are based upon sort

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Speaker 1: of a lack of logic and illogical and almost you know,

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Speaker 1: almost irrational, uh sort of methodology. Here. The idea that

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Speaker 1: we must treat and stop every single infection from COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen at all costs is simply just not rational or logical.

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Speaker 1: That was never the goal of the policy. We have

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Speaker 1: done what we wanted to do, which is flattening the curve.

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Speaker 1: We must end this total isolation. It's it's harmful, it's

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Speaker 1: it's destructive. Well, and I think a lot of what's

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Speaker 1: driving policy at this point though the governors and the

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Speaker 1: president's people painstakingly repeat over and over again that this

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Speaker 1: is data driven, in science driven. What's missing is we're

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Speaker 1: discussing earlier, is that you have economic damage, and the

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Speaker 1: economy is inseparable from health outcomes. In half a dozen

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Speaker 1: different ways, and as you pointed out, it's brought medical

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Speaker 1: care to a standstill that will directly lead to the

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Speaker 1: loss of life. And it's just so frustrating that we're

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Speaker 1: hearing only one side of the argument being represented, and

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Speaker 1: that is we must prevent as many cases as possible,

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Speaker 1: and they're wilfully or just ignoring the huge other aspects

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Speaker 1: of the thing. It's frustrating to listen to. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think those are good points, uh, And we're not

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Speaker 1: really here to criticize what was done. We're only talking

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Speaker 1: about what to do now and what we know now right,

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Speaker 1: and what we know now really is who to protect.

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Speaker 1: There is no science that says that people must be

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Speaker 1: confined in their homes. There is no science to say

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Speaker 1: that we must close all outdoor activities, parts and recreation

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Speaker 1: and keep you inside your home. The science does not say,

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Speaker 1: does not say to keep K through twelve schools closed.

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Speaker 1: These are children with virtually no risk of serious disease

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Speaker 1: or or you know, hospitalization. And there is some suggestion,

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Speaker 1: although I don't know, the data is not out yet

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Speaker 1: on this, that there's actually a low level of contagiousness.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not sure about that yet, But we have

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Speaker 1: to follow the science. I'm saying, follow the science and

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Speaker 1: using medical knowledge to proceed. We there is no science

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Speaker 1: to support continuing total isolation. Dr Scott Atlas is a

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Speaker 1: Senior Fellow with the Hoover Institution of Stanford University. Is

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Speaker 1: most recent book is Restoring Quality Healthcare, A six Point

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Speaker 1: Plan for Comprehensive Reform at Lower Cost. Uh Scott, Dr Atlas,

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Speaker 1: we appreciate your time very much, really interesting. Thanks thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. It's it's our pleasure. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: the one sightedness of this makes me nuts. Nobody ever

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Speaker 1: says to Governor X, Y or Z, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: presenting your preventing rather cases at what cost? At what

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Speaker 1: cost are we doing is? I mean, even if it

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Speaker 1: were effective? And Dr Atlas obviously had some serious questions

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Speaker 1: about the effectiveness or necessity of some of the things

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Speaker 1: that we're doing. Even if if it were effected, given

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are absolutely and disputably enormous costs

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Speaker 1: to the policy, we need to see both sides of

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Speaker 1: the ledger. And I've been making the argument for quite

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Speaker 1: some time about the economy being in a you know,

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Speaker 1: um being linked to health outcomes. And that's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: But is the good doctor pointed out it? No, it's

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Speaker 1: it's even more direct than that. People aren't getting chemotherapy.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna die. So are you trading tow COVID lives

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Speaker 1: for one chemotherapy life? How about two COVID lives for

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Speaker 1: two or maybe it's two COVID lives for three, four,

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Speaker 1: five chemotherapy lives? Is anybody doing that math? Or are

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Speaker 1: they just listening to the muling of the media and

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Speaker 1: and and you know it will become obsessed with this

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Speaker 1: thing because it's such a clickbait and such a good

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Speaker 1: headline grabber, and and you know, the policies are a

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Speaker 1: response to the you know, the emotional about first to

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Speaker 1: the media mostly and not based on any rational weighing

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Speaker 1: of costs and benefits. All right, Uh so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: finish strong. In a moment or two. Have the absolutely

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Speaker 1: terrific mayor of Newport Beach, California taking on the governor,

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom. And what he says is just great. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to hear it. It's next when you're ready

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Speaker 1: to ride metro, we want you to know we're ready

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Speaker 1: for you. Here are just a few of the people

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Speaker 1: at Metro to tell you how we're doing our part

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Speaker 1: to keep riders safe. Were cleaning before you've found hansund

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Speaker 1: of size of no masks, no Metro need one. We

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Speaker 1: have a few extras at Metro. We're doing our part

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Speaker 1: to keep the DC area moving. Find out more at

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Speaker 1: well mata dot com, slash doing our part