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Speaker 1: Quody Dius, But Joseph's gotten more. The first office that

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Speaker 1: I ever had was actually adjacent to a levee that

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Speaker 1: overlooked the Mississippi River. And now if you've never seen

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Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, it's certainly something to behold. It's massive,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't look like it's moving until, of course,

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Speaker 1: you get immediately adjacent to it. Then you can see

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Speaker 1: the flow. Some days it's very powerful. And you know

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Speaker 1: what's really weird. In South Louisiana when the springtime melt

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Speaker 1: would occur way back up river, back in Minnesota and Iowa,

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Speaker 1: you would see huge blocks of ice that would flow

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Speaker 1: all the way down to the city of New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: Now that's not something you would expect to see, but

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Speaker 1: I have actually seen it. And they say that many rivers,

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Speaker 1: many creeks, flow into the Mississippi River. And today on

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Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to talk about a location named

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Speaker 1: after one such creek. That creek, of course, and of

17
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Speaker 1: course it's now relation is Morgan Creek, and Morgan Creek

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Speaker 1: flows into the Cedar River in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and

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Speaker 1: of course Cedar River flows into the Mississippi River. But

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Speaker 1: back to Morgan Creek, that tiny little tributary. There is

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Speaker 1: actually a park in Cedar Rapids named after that little creek,

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Speaker 1: and within the boundaries of that park are found the

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Speaker 1: remains of a young woman who, according to reports, had

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Speaker 1: to mind though she was twenty of about a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old, and she was brutalized beyond anything that most

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Speaker 1: of us can imagine or care to comprehend. I'm Josephcott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: and this is Bodybags, Dave. I have memories of the

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Speaker 1: first time I ever saw the Mississippi River, and it

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Speaker 1: was not in New Orleans, actually it was I was

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Speaker 1: with my mother, and my mother had a nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: seven Candy Apple red three speed Mustang fastback. I loved

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Speaker 1: that car, and she had it for a number of years.

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Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, back then when we were little,

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Speaker 1: you know, you run in the front seat, and of

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Speaker 1: course you had no seat belt, and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of sit down that you would hear coming. And

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Speaker 1: it was just me and my mom and you know,

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Speaker 1: and I rode around that car with her, and I

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Speaker 1: remember crossing the Mississippi River bridge probably when I was

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Speaker 1: about three or four, I guess in Vicksburg. Vicksburg Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: where you're going from the Louisiana side to the Mississippi side,

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Speaker 1: And I remember looking down you could look over the

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Speaker 1: edge of that old bridge and it was steel back then,

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Speaker 1: and you could see how vast that river is, and

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Speaker 1: that bridge is so high you look down on it,

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Speaker 1: and particularly, you know when your little things look so

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Speaker 1: massive anyway, but even by today's standards, it would look huge.

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Speaker 1: And you think about now, at this age, I think

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Speaker 1: about the flow of that river and the stories that

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Speaker 1: are told all along the banks of it, going all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the headwaters in Minnesota, and it

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Speaker 1: tells a story in and of itself, and it has

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Speaker 1: for years and years, and people have been entranced by it,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me, and of course I'm kind of partial.

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Speaker 1: The stories all seem to come to rest down in

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Speaker 1: the delta. But for our case today, this starts all

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Speaker 1: the way back up upriver, you know, over a thousand

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Speaker 1: miles away up in Iowa, Dave. And what a.

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Speaker 2: Tragic case, you know, McKinley, Louisma and Melody Hoffman were

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Speaker 2: involved in an intimate relationship. Most of our stories, not most,

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Speaker 2: A lot of our stories start like that. And I

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Speaker 2: wonder sometimes, how can people that have spend enough time

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Speaker 2: together to enjoy one another's company, to be involved in

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Speaker 2: a relationship for an extended period of time, how it

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Speaker 2: can end so badly that you and I end up

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Speaker 2: talking about one of the people involved in it. Because

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Speaker 2: that's what we're doing again. McKinley Louisma, while he was

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Speaker 2: in a special relationship with Melody Hoffman, was also in

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Speaker 2: a relationship with another one. So there you go, the

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Speaker 2: triangle once again complete.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the relationship don't sound nothing special time till the truth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of a sad reality of what we

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Speaker 2: end up with. But Melody Hoffman goes missing. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: the first part of the story, you know, that's what

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Speaker 2: gets out in the news. We have a missing woman.

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Speaker 2: Everybody be on the lookout, and then you find out, well,

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Speaker 2: her boyfriend has another girlfriend, and that one thing leads

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Speaker 2: to another, and we discovered that McKinley Luisma has told

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Speaker 2: investigators that he and Dakota Van Patten put Melody Hoffman

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Speaker 2: in the trunk of a car at Morgan Creek Park

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Speaker 2: in Northwest Cedar Rapids and then dumped her body at

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Speaker 2: a man of Lily Lake about sixteen miles away before

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Speaker 2: picking up Melody her significant other McKinley Luisma, And it

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Speaker 2: could have been Patten. They went to Walmart picked up

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Speaker 2: you know, what do you do when you're going to

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Speaker 2: a creek area, a place with water and you know,

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Speaker 2: beachy areas. You pick up things to sit on the

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Speaker 2: grass and maybe cook out. Right, Yeah, no, not these guys,

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Speaker 2: McKinley Luisma, And it could have been Patton go to

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Speaker 2: Walmart and pick up two machetes and gloves. Two machetes

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Speaker 2: and gloves, because that's what you take on a romantic

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Speaker 2: picnic by the pond, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, uh yeah, what a horror show too. And

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Speaker 1: just to back up just a little bit here, I

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Speaker 1: gotta I gotta speak to to Melody Hoffman for one second.

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Speaker 1: Melody Hoffman was twenty years old, and Dave, you know

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Speaker 1: she she has been described as being slow mentally and

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Speaker 1: emotionally underdeveloped, that she's been described as being having kind

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Speaker 1: of the emotional development of a fourteen year old. And

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Speaker 1: I think the really sad thing about this is that

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Speaker 1: she was lonely and had always wanted a boyfriend and

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Speaker 1: never had had had one. And if you've I think

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Speaker 1: that it's a longing you know that sets in with somebody.

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Speaker 1: You want to be loved, You want to be you

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Speaker 1: want to be made to, You want to feel special,

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Speaker 1: you know, and if you're absent that in your life,

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Speaker 1: that's a dangerous thing, particularly in the world that we

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Speaker 1: live in today, because it makes so it's so easy

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Speaker 1: to be taken advantage of.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned, she's fourteen mentally emotionally a young king and

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Speaker 2: if you remember that time period, it's this really cross

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Speaker 2: between a little girl and a young woman and it's

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Speaker 2: a period of time where both those types of attributes coexist.

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Speaker 2: But not for her. She was twenty, but she was

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Speaker 2: at a younger age emotionally and mentally. So she's a

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Speaker 2: fourteen year old where she can still see, you know,

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Speaker 2: unicorns and pink clouds and stuff like that, and wasn't

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Speaker 2: past that she was being taken advantage of by her

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Speaker 2: boyfriend slash ex boyfriend. However, you want to look at

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Speaker 2: McKinley Luisma, he was taking advantage of her because she

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Speaker 2: was a little bit underdeveloped that way, that's how they

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Speaker 2: could lure her into the situation of getting her separated

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Speaker 2: and out by herself without fear. There's another part of

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Speaker 2: all this show that came up that I was going

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Speaker 2: to ask you about, was she pregnant.

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Speaker 1: There's been some indication that she had either according to

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Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist, she had either been recently pregnant or

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Speaker 1: was currently pregnant. But you know, the examination of her system,

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Speaker 1: of her body at the time did not reveal a

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Speaker 1: fetus at this point in time. You know, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that she wasn't pregnant, but there was a hormone

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Speaker 1: that was present in her system hCG. And that's like

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Speaker 1: when a blood test is done for pregnancy, you're looking

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Speaker 1: for ACG HG, and so it's there. But given circumstances,

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Speaker 1: the pathologists could not necessarily totally rule it out, or

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Speaker 1: that maybe she had been pregnant and lost a child

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Speaker 1: that can still And so you're a woman's system even

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Speaker 1: in a post natal state. If she's, say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: had a miscarriage at some point, tom, that hormone would

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Speaker 1: still be present there and the body has not purged

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Speaker 1: itself completely.

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Speaker 2: Wow, there's so much to unwrap in this story, but

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Speaker 2: ultimately it's a relationship that went bad and rather than

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Speaker 2: breaking up and moving on, I guess that's something that

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Speaker 2: seems to be happening in so many different stories, like, really,

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Speaker 2: this was your best decision? Look, nobody likes to be

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Speaker 2: in a situation where they have to break up with

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Speaker 2: somebody that they no longer have the feelings for. And

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Speaker 2: I get that, okay, but I'm just thinking, how many

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Speaker 2: movies have we watched and it never turns out good?

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Speaker 2: Isn't there a little indicator here that just maybe we

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Speaker 2: got to think of something other than murder somebody you

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Speaker 2: care about, somebody that you've had an intimate relationship with

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Speaker 2: that you're done with. Granted it might be cold and

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Speaker 2: all that, but look, you really think your best decision

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Speaker 2: is to kill this individual?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? That that's a very uh, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a very uh horrific but yet simplistic way

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Speaker 1: of looking at life. Uh. What What's what's so amazing

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Speaker 1: to me is the fact that you can uh involve

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Speaker 1: yourself in such at such an intimate level with someone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, where you know you're you're

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Speaker 1: involved in a physical sexual relationship with someone, uh, and

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Speaker 1: you go back to them tom and Tom again to

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Speaker 1: engage in this behavior, and maybe you're telling them that

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Speaker 1: you do in fact care for them, but yet you

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Speaker 1: can dispose of them as if they're garbage. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: those two things don't seem to correlate with one another,

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Speaker 1: at least in my mind. And you know, you talk

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Speaker 1: about how, how is this the best decision that you

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Speaker 1: could have come up with at this moment in time? Well,

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Speaker 1: of course, uh, it for this individual. Uh, it would

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Speaker 1: seem that this individual felt as though, uh, that it

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Speaker 1: was best for him to do this. And not just him,

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Speaker 1: but he's he's also you know, involved an acquaintance of

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Speaker 1: his in in the circumstances. So what you have here

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Speaker 1: is that somebody that is has quit somebody because they

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Speaker 1: have another girlfriend, uh that they have that that individual, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they've created a life with uh, and they've grown tired

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Speaker 1: of melody. And so you you go and you confide

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Speaker 1: in your friend. Look, you know, I I'm over this,

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of her. I want to get rid of her.

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Speaker 1: And you drag them into the circumstances as well, and

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Speaker 1: to dispose of a life, to end a life and

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Speaker 1: then try to dispose of her mortal remains in such

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Speaker 1: a horrific way is something that I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know that we could really plumb the depths of effectively here,

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Speaker 1: but it really leaves you scratching her head. Why would

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Speaker 1: you want to destroy this poor this poor girl like

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Speaker 1: this and completely demolish her family in the wake of

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Speaker 1: what you've done, It's almost as if it's almost as

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Speaker 1: if you could care less about her as a person.

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Speaker 1: And of course, what it all comes down to is

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Speaker 1: you care more about your immediate satisfaction than you ever

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Speaker 1: could about a life that is yet to be completely lived. Dave,

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Speaker 1: I was reflecting on a case that you and I

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Speaker 1: have talked a lot about that you probably have learned

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Speaker 1: more about, and I didn't really want to know that

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Speaker 1: much about, but I've subjected subjected you to it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, God bless you, my friend. But that's the

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Speaker 1: piked In piked In massacre, and the Piked and Masker

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Speaker 1: actually has uh has one little bit in common with

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Speaker 1: the case of Melody Hoffmann, and that involves a trip

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Speaker 1: to Walmart. Uh. You know, you remember in the Pike

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Speaker 1: and Masker case where uh uh uh, the the mama

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Speaker 1: goes to Walmart in order to purchased unused shoes so

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Speaker 1: that her, her husband, and her two boys can commit

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Speaker 1: commit to these crimes with quote unquote virgin souls. Uh

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Speaker 1: so as O l e on their feet, and you know,

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Speaker 1: isn't it interesting?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: I think in a recent episode I mentioned to you

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Speaker 1: about seeing bags along the side of the road, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you see things alongside the road and you think,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what's in that bag? Have you ever gone

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Speaker 1: to Walmart, Dave and walked past people in store and

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Speaker 1: you think, I wonder what they're buying in there? Or

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Speaker 1: what is what is this person? What is this person about?

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Speaker 1: What exactly are they doing? Because you know, you see

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Speaker 1: all shapes and sizes, as you well know. I had

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Speaker 1: a buddy of mine one time said the most entertaining

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Speaker 1: place in the world would be Walmart. If you had

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Speaker 1: a lawn chair in a case of beer late on

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Speaker 1: a Friday night and you just sat there and watched

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Speaker 1: it would be better than cable television. You never know

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen, you know, with people coming and going.

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Speaker 2: And I just think you looked at yourself in the

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Speaker 2: mirror before you left the house and thought that was okay.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: Based on that decision, I know, whatever's in the bag

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Speaker 2: is not something I want to see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but you know what, what what can

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Speaker 1: I say? I'm not a big of I'm not a

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Speaker 1: big where we can drop the public.

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Speaker 2: About piked In, you know, and about that was really

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Speaker 2: shocking to me was the trip for Walmart to buy

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Speaker 2: the shoes. It was something I never would have thought of.

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Speaker 2: And you guys go check out the episode. Joe's done

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Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of shows about that piked

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Speaker 2: In massacre. We did one here and that was something

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Speaker 2: I never would have thought of. The shoes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh, you know, we just did

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Speaker 1: an episode involved in uh well I think, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know what it was. It was because Billy Wagner is

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Speaker 1: about to go to try right, Yeah, so we had

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Speaker 1: to revisit that again. But you know the one thing

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Speaker 1: and what got what got Mama Wagner caught in that case, Dave,

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Speaker 1: we'll CECTV, which we know that Walmart is fully equipped with.

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Speaker 1: And let me give you some advice. Next time you

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Speaker 1: go to Walmart, look at the ceiling. Look at the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: You'll see the little pods that are up there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this thing is covered from front to back. And

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Speaker 1: let me tell you something else, Walmart does not play

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Speaker 1: when it comes to shoplifting either. If they catch you shoplifting,

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Speaker 1: they will charge you or they will have you charge

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Speaker 1: and they don't drop the charges either. Wow, they do

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Speaker 1: not negotiate over that. So at least they did in

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Speaker 1: the past. I can't speak you know, in recent history,

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Speaker 1: and we won't go down that road however.

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Speaker 2: But interesting, So, you know, at least in the Piking

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Speaker 2: case show, when they went to Walmart to get supplies,

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Speaker 2: they were buying something to actually draw attention away from

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Speaker 2: them as possible suspects. But here we have we have

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Speaker 2: these two guys going there buying machetes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that they also bought paracord as

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Speaker 1: where as well, if you don't know what paara cord is,

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Speaker 1: it's a braided synthetic rope that you can use it

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Speaker 1: for any number of things in the military, you know,

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Speaker 1: you use it to lash things together, you can use

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Speaker 1: it to depend upon the type, you can use it

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Speaker 1: for repelling all these sorts of things and securing things.

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Speaker 1: And so a pair of cord plays into this case.

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Speaker 1: But also macheties certainly play into this case as well.

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Speaker 2: Dave, Yeah, there's you know the nine one one call

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Speaker 2: to report the body of Melody Hoffman is shocking. And

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Speaker 2: when you couple that call with the autopsy report Joe,

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Speaker 2: which we're going to get into both of these, because

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Speaker 2: she's described the description of Melody Hoffman. She has such beautiful,

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Speaker 2: pure white skin. That was part of the nine to

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Speaker 2: one one call when a woman calls it there's a

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Speaker 2: dead body here. I see a dead body, and the operator,

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Speaker 2: you know, well, do you think the person is breathing? No,

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Speaker 2: this is a dead body, but she has the most

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Speaker 2: beautiful skin. And then conversely, I thought of a picture

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Speaker 2: that was found on McKinley Luisma's phone. On his cell

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Speaker 2: phone is a picture of twenty year old Melody Hoffman

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Speaker 2: shows her face with duct tape over her mouth, a

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Speaker 2: bloody nose. She'd apparently been crying, and he took a

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Speaker 2: photo of her like that and kept it on his

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Speaker 2: phone so he could revisit the look.

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Speaker 1: Joe. Yeah, I'm thinking about this now, you know, in

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Speaker 1: light of the appearance of the photograph, and to me, Dave,

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Speaker 1: this is indicative of someone that's not just trying to

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Speaker 1: kill somebody and get them out of their life. This,

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Speaker 1: this is a whole other level of horror when you

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Speaker 1: think about this, why is it that you would want

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Speaker 1: to document this uh that that look of fear. There's

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Speaker 1: been a number of these cases over the years that

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Speaker 1: involve uh what I refer to is as uh uh

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Speaker 1: as sexual sadism. And you you have individuals out there

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Speaker 1: that uh that love to uh photograph individuals. Uh and

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Speaker 1: in these these horrible sets of circumstances.

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Speaker 2: UH.

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Speaker 1: One guy comes to mind in particular for me out

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Speaker 1: of Kansas City from many years ago named Robert Burdella,

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Speaker 1: who would photograph his his victim that he had kidnapped

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Speaker 1: and uh. And I've seen these photographs over the years, certainly,

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Speaker 1: and before the evolution of the the internet, you know,

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Speaker 1: I saw them conferences people that were talking about these cases.

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Speaker 1: And he operated essentially from eighty four till about eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: I think, and he would he would abduct and torture individuals.

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Speaker 1: And there's there's kind of a what's it, Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 1: cause of feticization, I think, I don't know if I'm

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Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly, But they go back and they revisit,

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Speaker 1: you know, things like this. It's one thing if you're

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Speaker 1: going if you're going with with your friend to you

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Speaker 1: know that you've entered into an agreement with them to

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Speaker 1: kill somebody and dispose of their mortal remains. But why

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Speaker 1: under heaven would you do this to this poor girl?

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Speaker 1: And remember she has the mind of a fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old child, and all she ever wanted was a boy

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Speaker 1: friend and to have your buddy stand by, you know,

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Speaker 1: as this is going on as well. Why why, why

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Speaker 1: is it that you would want to revisit this on

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Speaker 1: any level? This really goes to a deep, very dark

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Speaker 1: dark place, Dave.

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Speaker 2: When I saw the picture, you know, was on his phone,

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Speaker 2: I thought, I wonder if it was taken that day

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Speaker 2: or if it was from an earlier beating. You know,

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Speaker 2: anything's possible, But I know that when police recalled about

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Speaker 2: the dead body, the deputy who showed up and wrote

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Speaker 2: the initial report gives a cursory view of what he finds,

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Speaker 2: and she appears to have suffered extensive injuries. He notes

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Speaker 2: that now I guess you need to I mean, when

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Speaker 2: you see a body, I guess sometimes the person could

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Speaker 2: look like they're dead, but maybe they've only got a

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Speaker 2: bullet hole somewhere that you can't really see, or maybe

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Speaker 2: they've had a heart attack and falling over. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are options to this that don't have to say

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Speaker 2: the person looks like they have extensive injuries. So she

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Speaker 2: was laying face down on the ground. Would that yell

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Speaker 2: somebody something if you're invesciating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could. And she's found essentially on the ground

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Speaker 1: with And one of the interesting things that they talked

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Speaker 1: about that kind of stands out is that her hands

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Speaker 1: were curled in a way that they shouldn't have been.

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Speaker 1: And that came in from the reporter. The lady that well,

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Speaker 1: I say, reporter, what I meant is the finder, And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the role of the finder, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she talked about the hands being in a curled in

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Speaker 1: a way that they shouldn't have been. And I'm really

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Speaker 1: wondering if this wasn't a reaction to perhaps the fact

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Speaker 1: that she was strangled and that she's going through a

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Speaker 1: seizure like event and her hands remained in this position,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the wake of this. But here's something else.

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Speaker 1: You know, when the finder observed observed her, you know,

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Speaker 1: she did talk about, you know, this this beautiful, pale,

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Speaker 1: perfect skin, and she defined her actually bears a witness

359
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Speaker 1: to this on the stand, and she talked about her

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Speaker 1: glorious curls. And when you see Melody, she's got this

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Speaker 1: long brown hair and it's very very curly, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like ringlets that that kind of pour

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Speaker 1: down her back. And the only thing she's wearing are

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Speaker 1: her underwear. Again, when you find women in particular that

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Speaker 1: are clothed only in a pair of underwear, this goes

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Speaker 1: to a level of I think at least a level

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Speaker 1: of humiliation when you do this and you've absented them

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Speaker 1: of all other coverings that they might have on their person.

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Speaker 1: And Dave, let's reflect back to where this was. This

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Speaker 1: was in Iowa, and I don't know if you've ever

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Speaker 1: been to Iowa in the wintertime, and this happened February,

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Speaker 1: February eighteenth, Iowa. Iowa is cold. I mean it is

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Speaker 1: bone chilling cold. Beautiful but cold. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: again you've got this this young woman who is naked

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Speaker 1: save her underwear. She's been brutalized and she's without any

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Speaker 1: source of comfort. You know, I use Maslow's hierarchy a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I'm thinking about the way people are

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Speaker 1: treated at scenes in particular, you know, that our basic

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Speaker 1: needs that we have of clothing and comfort and you know,

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Speaker 1: shelter and those sorts of things. And when you can

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Speaker 1: deprive people of things that like a real base level

382
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: like this, I think that it goes to the mentality

383
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Speaker 1: of the individual that's doing a great harm. It begs

384
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Speaker 1: the question, doesn't it you know, what became of the

385
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: rest of her clothing? Where were they and for how

386
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Speaker 1: long did Because the term torture keeps coming up in

387
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Speaker 1: this case, Dave, And if you're going to torture someone,

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Speaker 1: that means that you have to have an isolated location

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Speaker 1: and you have to have time, David.

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Speaker 2: And very quickly her hands in an unnatural way. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned a seizure. What kind of injuries would you suffer

392
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Speaker 2: that could bring about a seizure that would cause that

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Speaker 2: to happen.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that there's two things. Famously, where just

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, you know, we're coming on

396
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Speaker 1: the heels of an injury that Trevor Lawrence is aimed

397
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: where he sustained his head injury, and you can see

398
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: his arms go stiff in this event, and it's like

399
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: a seizure response that individuals have where you'll see their

400
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: hands will kind of contract, they'll grasp their thumbs. I've

401
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: seen this actually in people that have videotaped themselves when

402
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: they hang themselves, and you can have this event that

403
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: will occur with oxygen deprivation as well as head injuries

404
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: as well. I don't know that that's necessarily what happened here,

405
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: but I just find it interesting in passing that the

406
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: observer the finder in this case, made a lot of

407
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: this on the stand in this case where she talked

408
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: about her hands. Melody's hands, at least, we're in an

409
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: unnatural position, and so that gives you the idea that

410
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: they're probably curled in a backwards manner. Now that can

411
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: also come about. I think perhaps maybe she had been

412
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Speaker 1: restrained and the restraints were cut at some point in time,

413
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: Maybe that cord was taken away. I don't really know,

414
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: but and you know, riger has set in at that

415
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: point time. But you know, Melody was found within a

416
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: very short period of time of when she was last

417
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: seen alive. So she's not you know, she's she might

418
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: still and I would think there would still be some

419
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: remnant of post war changes going on her body that

420
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: would be appreciable at that moment in time.

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Speaker 2: Would cold weather prevent the onset of the changes that

422
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: take place in death you mentioned Roger Mortis. I mean,

423
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Speaker 2: is it delayed because of the how cold it is?

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Speaker 1: It can be, Yeah, it can be. But I think

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Speaker 1: that in a case like this, where you're outdoors like

426
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: this and she is, I think that at best it's

427
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: going to be negligible, probably in this case. And also

428
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: keep in mind that somebody that's engaged in this kind

429
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: of vigorous physical activity, because I don't know if there's

430
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: anything more vigorous in the world than someone being tortured.

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00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: You've got the metabolic activity that is increased, and of

432
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: course you know this, this would have still to a

433
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: certain degree, have remained if she died in the wake

434
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: of this torture. I don't think that it would have

435
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: slowed it to the manner where it would not have

436
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: been appreciable. I think that if she had been laying

437
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: in stasis in bed, perhaps like an elderly person in

438
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: the room had been cooler, perhaps that you know, the

439
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: temperature would probably retard, retarded compared to say summertime where

440
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: things are warmer, you know. But no, I don't think

441
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: to any great degree but I do know this that

442
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: when the observers, in this case, the Finder and certainly

443
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: that police officer that first arrived at the scene, not

444
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: only did they see not only did they see that,

445
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 1: as she described the finder the most quote, beautiful pale,

446
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: perfect skin and glorious curls, she also saw something else.

447
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: She saw what appeared to be all kinds of marks

448
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: on her back, like slashes. This is what happened to

449
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: Melodiy Hoffmann. What is it that? What is it that

450
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: she had done to someone that would have driven them

451
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: to the point where they would want to get a

452
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: sharp instrument, multiple sharp instruments, and torture her, because this

453
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: is what this is, by slashing her across her body

454
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: and then using a piece of what's referred to as

455
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: paracord to strangle her with. I don't know that we

456
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: would necessarily have the answer to that, but I have

457
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: my suspicions, Dave, when you think about maybe the individual

458
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: that wanted just merely to be shed of this woman's life, you.

459
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: Know, looking at pictures of her and thinking about twenty

460
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: year old life in front of them, the whole nine,

461
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: and then looking at what this person who she had

462
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: been in a relationship with and I'm having trouble matching

463
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: it up. You know, people being so young and going

464
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: to this degree, not that age should have a lot

465
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: to do with doing something so destructive to another human being.

466
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 2: I don't know why. It just strikes me as this

467
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 2: one just seems like there's something missing, like we're not

468
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: getting the whole story. We've got the basics. We know

469
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: that Melody Hoffman was murdered. We know that she was

470
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: a simple girl with a little bit of a mental

471
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: or emotional maturity at about the age of fourteen. But

472
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: when you look at the investigation, Joe, you know, I

473
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: mentioned the picture earlier of where it looked like she

474
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: had where Melody had duct tape over her mouth and

475
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: she had been crying, noses bloody, some things like that,

476
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: And it was a photo that was on McKinley Louisma's phone. Well,

477
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: when they did some research, they found out that they

478
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: believe she died around midnight on February seventeenth. At four

479
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: five am February eighteenth, he accessed that phone, that photo

480
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: on his phone at four So if she died around midnight,

481
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: four hours later, he's looking at that photo of her.

482
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: Now I know that there's plenty of evidence in the

483
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: data has evidence in it. You know that our phone,

484
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: the pictures rather have data that tells them when the

485
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: picture was taken and everything else. Because I think I'd

486
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: mentioned did he do this tour before? Had he tortured

487
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: her like this before? Joe? And then I don't know.

488
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm just totally bum fuzzled that the guy took a

489
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: picture of her while she's alive and crying and keeps

490
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: it on his phone, and then based on this timetable,

491
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: he's looking at it four hours after he's killed.

492
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: He feels real comfortable with this because he's involving friends

493
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: in it.

494
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: Dave, Yeah, that's you know, the code of empacth.

495
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the other thing. There's also a third

496
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: individual that he had turned I think a Logan Kempton,

497
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: that he he had turned over all of these items.

498
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: This is Luisma had turned these items over that had

499
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: been purchased to get rid of them. So this individual

500
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: is an accessory in this homicide as well. And the

501
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: reason I'm saying this is it's ghastly that they would

502
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: be involved in it, but it's the idea that this

503
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: perpetrator felt so comfortable doing this, and I think this

504
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: goes to a greater point. How was this the ultimate

505
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: escalation and ongoing abuse? I think? And was there any

506
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: evidence found on her remains that she had been subject

507
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: to abuse? You know, she lived with her mother, Melody

508
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: did she lived with her mother? Her mother had been

509
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: trying to get in contact with her, had texted her

510
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: to try, you know, to get back home, because she

511
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: had cameras at the house that she witnessed her leaving

512
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: the house, and she had pined her to tell her

513
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: to come back home, come back home, and of course

514
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: she didn't. She never comes back home. And you know

515
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: the fact that this individual that did this to her,

516
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: I wonder how much awareness the mother has had, you know,

517
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: over what perhaps Melody had been subjected to at the

518
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: hands of this of this perpetrator, McKinley Louisma. How much

519
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: other abuse had he subjected Melody to over a period

520
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: of time. Was there a lot of verbal abuse? Had

521
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: he been smacking her around at all? Was there evidence

522
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: of healed injuries for instance? You know that that you

523
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: could put a time frame on moving forward, and I

524
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: don't know that that was necessarily discovered. But one of

525
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: the things that's that's quite interesting that they were able to,

526
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, kind of track I think with digital evidence

527
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: here is his movements. Are their movements relative to to

528
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: what happened to her? Because you talked about they were

529
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: at the park, I think at the Morgan Creek Park

530
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: from about twelve nine to about roughly twelve twenty five

531
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: on the eighteenth, which is when they believe she was killed.

532
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: And they believe she was killed there at Morgan Creek Park.

533
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Now she's then placed into a vehicle, his vehicle, they believe,

534
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: and driven out to this Lily Pond Park. What's fascinating

535
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: to me is that when her body was deposited at

536
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: Lily Pond Park, she was not deposited in the pond itself.

537
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: She was deposited deposited adjacent to the pond. Now, I

538
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: don't know what status of the pond was. I don't

539
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: know exactly how far away she was, but we do

540
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: know that she was essentially approximating the shore. Was their

541
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: eyes on the pond because we're talking about February, you know,

542
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: So is it possible that they just could not have

543
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: gotten her sufficiently out in the water. Maybe they're afraid

544
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: of water. I don't know. Maybe they can't swim. I

545
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: have no idea to be and that this was the

546
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: most expeditious thing that they could do. But Dave, that

547
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: chilling part that you mentioned where he's obviously reflecting back

548
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: on this imagery, you know that he has is he

549
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: fantasizing at this point in time, because dude, this is

550
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: in the wake. This is just in the wake of

551
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: what has happened to this young woman.

552
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: That's why I was overly curious. Yeah, I mean, normally

553
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: something like that just I kind of get it and

554
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: just file it, right, But this one caught me different

555
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: because I'm going, wait a minute, either he tortured her

556
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: before and kept this photo to remind him of what

557
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: he had done previously, or this is a picture of

558
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: her right before he killed her. Or yeah, and you

559
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: mentioned the digital evidence, Joe, and I thought, oct when

560
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: you access your phone and you access stuff online with

561
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: social media, you have to get online to do that,

562
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 2: and so they can track our phones, you know, from

563
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: the different pings that they hit. But interestingly enough, they

564
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 2: actually were able to in this particular case. McKinley Luisma

565
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: gets on his phone and uses Wi Fi, but he

566
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: uses a Wi Fi hotspot that was created by Dakota

567
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 2: van Patten on his phone. That put them both at

568
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: the location at the time of the death. Now, one

569
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: of the things we mentioned about Melody Hoffman laying face

570
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: down when she was discovered, she had marks on her back, Joe,

571
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 2: And at this point we haven't even got into how

572
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: she actually was killed. Was she killed with the machete knives?

573
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: No? No, that that's why these marks are. Some have

574
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: described them as slashes. I've heard slashes. I've heard uh

575
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: one individual refer to the mistab ones and listen, it

576
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: would not surprise me if both existed. Now, a machete

577
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: is not a stabbing tool, Okay, it is a slicing

578
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: or cutting tool. You know, people traditionally have used them

579
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: to cut brush. Are you know members of our military

580
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 1: have carried them on the rucksacks for years and years,

581
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: particularly those that are in in densely wooded areas, are

582
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: in jungle canopy?

583
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: Uh?

584
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: Are you know our guys in Vietnam, you know, carried

585
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: them all everywhere. Everybody have machetes back then because you'd

586
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: have to cut through elephant grass and all that sort

587
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: of stuff.

588
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: Uh.

589
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: And they're primarily used to swing in order to slice

590
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: through things. Uh No, what what actually brought about her death, Dave,

591
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: was this this pair cord that had been wrapped around

592
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: her neck. Now Here, here's the thing again that that

593
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: goes to why I believe that this is potentially uh,

594
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: this pear cord or this these uh, these marks on

595
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: her neck might be indicative of of of a torture event,

596
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: because I think that there's multiple marks on her neck.

597
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: So what that would mean is that is that perhaps

598
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: this this this pair cord had generated marks around the

599
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: front of her her neck, and they're described as marx plural.

600
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: What that means is that if you're and the primarily

601
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: the rope or the ligature is around the front of

602
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: the neck, it's being adjusted, released, and then readjusted. Okay,

603
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: so what you have is kind of in the rear.

604
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: You're holding the ligature in the rear and you're tightening

605
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: it down, almost like a garrod. Now they haven't used

606
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: the term grot, but that's the way garrot would you

607
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: be used. If you have, like you know, the wooden

608
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: stick that goes in between the two. You can use

609
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: a wire or rope and you tighten it down and

610
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: then you release it and then you readjust it and

611
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: you tighten it down again, so you could bring her

612
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: to the point. Now she's enduring incredible pain because she's

613
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: already got these these insults to her back. Now you know,

614
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: to finish her off, and maybe you're controlling her with

615
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: this this rope around her neck as well. Keep that

616
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: in mind. You can put this rope around her neck

617
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: and walk behind her. Now she's in her underwear, Dave,

618
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: what if they strip her of her clothes? Okay, just

619
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: let this sink in just for a second. They've stripped

620
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: her of her clothes, okay, and they're marching her out

621
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: there in the cold on this cold February night, and

622
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 1: she's walking out there nude. She's at this park, this park.

623
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: They're loosening and tightening this ligature around her neck. They're

624
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: humiliating her day. They slash her with this machete and

625
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: then finally the coup de gras. They take that ligature

626
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: as she's laying there and they tighten it and tighten

627
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: it and tighten it until not another sound emanates from

628
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: her body. It's just this final gasp of air when

629
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: she's struggling to breathe, but you can't because her airway

630
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: is externally constricted down to the point where I've seen

631
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: these cases where tongues bulge, eyes bulged. You're gonna have petiki,

632
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: and there's a resistance there that you're not gonna be

633
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: able to fight against, particularly if you've already been greatly traumatized.

634
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: I would imagine that in many cases, the individual just

635
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: wants it to end because they're in such a state.

636
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: There's such a state of trauma at this point in

637
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: tom there's nothing else that they can do.

638
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: When this case was in court and you get to

639
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: you get to read the testimony, it's been thought of,

640
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: its organized is oftentimes you've ever listened to somebody related

641
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: story right after certain things impact them differently than others,

642
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: and it's only the accumulative effect of time research and

643
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: looking at the entire in this page, in this particular case,

644
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: the entire scene where they realize that Melody was not

645
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 2: killed where she was found. She was killed and then

646
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: brought to the location sixteen miles away. My question to you, Joe,

647
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: they said that she wasn't killed where she was found

648
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: a little lily pad or what was lily? Yeah? Yeah,

649
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: because there was absence of blood pooled and everything else.

650
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: There was an absence of blood. Based on her death,

651
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: they would have expected to see more blood. You're saying

652
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: that she was strangled. We know she's got marks on

653
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: her back, but she obviously lost a lot of blood

654
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 2: too from the cuts on her back and on her body.

655
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: But she didn't die there. Was she alive when they

656
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: put her in the trunk of the car to transport her.

657
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: Wow. I think that that very well could have been

658
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: the case. They know that. What we do know is

659
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: that she was found in Lily Pond, which is up

660
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: in a Manna, which is, you know what, sixteen miles

661
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: away from from Cedar Falls. Was she placed in that

662
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: trunk and she was already or was she still alive?

663
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: To keep using the term terrorized and tortured Dave over

664
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: and over again as it applies to her, you know,

665
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: I guess you know, at the end of the day,

666
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: we can only hope that that she her death was

667
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: was quick. I think that they believe that she was killed,

668
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: uh there in the Morgan Creek Park and then placed

669
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: into the trunk and transport it up there, and she

670
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: was left adjacent to that that pond, And you know,

671
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why they would have gone to that

672
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: trouble to drive that distance to to deposit her remains,

673
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: because there's you know, there's a whole lot of of

674
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 1: of vacant area in Iowa, a lot of rural area.

675
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

676
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: If you're if you're looking to you know, take a

677
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: body and deposit somebody where they might not be found.

678
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: But you get to a landmark like a pond, and

679
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: you know you're going to find uh uh, you know,

680
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: someone lying adjacent to the shoreline of this little pond.

681
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: It's not like you take you would take her out

682
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: into a densely wooded area and take her body out there.

683
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: The movements of these individuals, I think we're rather orchestrated.

684
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: They had a plan in mind, but it was ultimately

685
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: the execution and the lack of care that they took.

686
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: And certainly when it comes to digital evidence, Dave, because

687
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: you really spoke something I think into at least into

688
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: my mind investigatively, just a moment ago, when you had

689
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: mentioned that Luisma's phone actually hopped on to a hotspot

690
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: created by his compatriot here who was along with and

691
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: that they were traveling in concert together, Dave, And that's

692
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: a dead giveaway now, I've covered cases in the past

693
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: where you have two phones that are moving through a

694
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: location together. You know, they famously say, always say, is

695
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: that the phones are moving. We can't say that the

696
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: people that on the phones are moving together. But in

697
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: this case, you've got two phones that are digitally married

698
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: to one another by virtue of the fact that you're

699
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: hopping onto a hotspot that the other one has created.

700
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever heard this before.

701
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: I saw it, and my first thought was, he is

702
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: not going to get out of this. You know, you've

703
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: got him, Dakota. Now you've got him using his hotspot

704
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: for Luisman to get online. You've got them both inside

705
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: the Walmart buying the machetes. So they're they're tied. They're

706
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 2: tied together. The one thing that we do know, Joe,

707
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: is that a twenty year old girl the mental emotional,

708
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: psychological maturity of a fourteen year old, was kidnapped, terrorized,

709
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 2: and murdered and her body left in the middle of

710
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 2: you know, near a pond. I guess is the best

711
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: way to put it, just left out naked to Now

712
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: we've had a trial and McKinley Luisma, twenty three years old, convicted,

713
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,919
Speaker 2: but his sentencing has been pushed back. Joe, why would

714
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 2: a sentencing after having all this evidence, why would they

715
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 2: move the sentencing?

716
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: I think that more than likely in my opinion, my

717
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: opinion alone, that perhaps just perhaps the defense has wanted

718
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: more time so that they could do a pre sentencing

719
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: hearing and that they could go before go before the

720
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: judge and ask for some level of mercy here. Because

721
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, it's the horror that's involved

722
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: in this case. The defense understands what Luisma is facing here,

723
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 1: and not only see facing it, He's got other people

724
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: that are involved in this that can offer up testimony

725
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: to this. This is not like a loan person out

726
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: there that just did this, you know, kind of in

727
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: a vacuum. That's not what you've got. You've got, You've

728
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: got so many witnesses pointing back at him, including the

729
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: evidence that's contained in the digital evidence. They're going to

730
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: need more time, I think for the pre sentencing investigation

731
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: that always takes place. So they probably ask for more

732
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: time in this case because they know that whatever the

733
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: sentence is going to be, it ain't going to be pretty.

734
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and This is body backs,