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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, we're taking a break today for the US holiday,

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Speaker 1: so here's one of our favorite episodes from the Big

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Speaker 1: Take archives. Thank you for listening, and we'll be back

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Speaker 1: tomorrow with a new Big Take. Hey Vicky, I am

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Speaker 1: looking for a good news show to watch. What should

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Speaker 1: I watch? Bad Sisters just finished that It is awesome.

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Speaker 1: I went to try and find it. It's on Apple TV,

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Speaker 1: Apple TV plus, Apple Plus right everything s P plus,

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Speaker 1: which means you're gonna pay. And I try to log

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Speaker 1: in because I have Apple TV. Apparently I thought I did,

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Speaker 1: but I can't find my log in and I had

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Speaker 1: to reset my whole Apple password. Just watched this show,

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Speaker 1: so I just kind of gave up from Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: and I heart radio. It's the Big Take. I'm West Kasova.

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Speaker 1: Each weekday we dig into one important story, and today

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about why TV is better than ever

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Speaker 1: and yet it is somehow more annoying than ever. Remember

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Speaker 1: when everyone loved to complain how there were a hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty channels on TV and nothing good to watch.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty hard to say that now there are so

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Speaker 1: many good shows being made, and instead our new complaint

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Speaker 1: is what a pain in the neck it can be

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Speaker 1: to try to watch all those great shows. They're spread

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Speaker 1: across all these streaming services, and most of them want

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Speaker 1: a monthly payment for the privilege watching them. The Big

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Speaker 1: Take podcast team here in the US actually wound up

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Speaker 1: griping about this very thing when we were brainstorming about

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Speaker 1: this episode, so we decided, what the heck, let's turn

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Speaker 1: on the mics. I have Hulu because I got a

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Speaker 1: beta version forever ago that was supposed to be cheaper

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Speaker 1: than getting cable TV, and I'm still paying that and

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Speaker 1: now they have up the prices. It went from maybe

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Speaker 1: fifty bucks a month now it's like eight five, so

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Speaker 1: I'm basically paying cable again. Yeah, I'm watching HBO Max,

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Speaker 1: but I will come clean. I am on my parents plan,

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Speaker 1: so thanks mom, Paul. And my dad's an I T

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Speaker 1: security guy, so he's also texting all of the passwords

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Speaker 1: and three different chats, so the user name isn't matched

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Speaker 1: with the passwords. So yeah, well, I'm pretty sure both

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Speaker 1: my daughters are on my Netflix, and now Netflix says

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be cracking down on um, you know, sharing

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Speaker 1: outside the house with that me and real soon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I have a case where I used to share

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Speaker 1: a Netflix password with somebody, a former roommate, and at

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Speaker 1: some point I just couldn't get into Netflix. But I

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Speaker 1: felt like two hesitant to be like, hey, I've been

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Speaker 1: bumming your Netflix for the last six to eight years. Um,

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Speaker 1: could I continue bumming your Netflix from you? Okay? What

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Speaker 1: is your tale of woe when it comes to TV? Well,

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Speaker 1: my sorrow came when Quimby was kick off. Dy, you're

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Speaker 1: the person who watched Quick, I was the one. I

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Speaker 1: had it. I loved it. My favorite movie for the

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Speaker 1: youngest Helmsworth. He was in the Most Dangerous Game. I

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Speaker 1: don't know his first name, but he was in that.

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Speaker 1: That was the very first movie Quick be put on

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Speaker 1: and it was fantastic. It was in ten minutes segments.

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Speaker 1: It was great. But yeah, after that, I was trying

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Speaker 1: to get into some other content. But it's just quite

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Speaker 1: what you have. Um. I have them all. I have

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Speaker 1: HBO Showtime, I have Hulu, Apple Plus, got his Near Bill,

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Speaker 1: have Paramount. But since Big Brother is over, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: delete Paramount for a while and wait till Big Brother

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Speaker 1: comes back. I have a lot I do. I do.

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Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, Okay, Michael, Yes, what are you watching and where?

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Speaker 1: If you even know? Yeah, it's got to be the

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Speaker 1: House of the Dragon on HBO Max was to the Dragon. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're rolling old school with HBO. Yes, But it's

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Speaker 1: a fight every single time because as much as I

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Speaker 1: love the Continent hbom Max, it's my least favorite app.

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Speaker 1: I think it's navigation makes no sense and I just

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Speaker 1: feel like an app that has that much money behind

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Speaker 1: it um would be easier to use. Okay, So how

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Speaker 1: many people are subscribed to services that you just don't

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Speaker 1: ever use? But you just can't bring yourself to go

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Speaker 1: through that, so we're trying to cancel it. I have

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Speaker 1: them build on different devices with different things, So I

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Speaker 1: have showed Time build as part of my Hulu package

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Speaker 1: and I have HBO. So there's really no way unless

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Speaker 1: you really want to take half your Sunday to track

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Speaker 1: what you're paying where and how much. That's how they

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Speaker 1: get you. I have one or two that I subscribe

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Speaker 1: to and share a number of which I will not disclose,

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Speaker 1: right because you don't want the cable police coming at you,

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Speaker 1: or they, I guess the streaming police. It would be

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Speaker 1: called exactly exactly and when they become better experiences, maybe

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Speaker 1: I will subscribe to them all myself. Prime was the

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Speaker 1: one nice thing. Prime was nice because we had it anyway,

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Speaker 1: because my husband is an avid book collector. The TV

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Speaker 1: is great, but you still have to pay for MO

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Speaker 1: He's on top of it. So I watched You've Got

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Speaker 1: Mail because you know it's fall in New York, and

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Speaker 1: what else are you gonna do besides like sharp and pencils.

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Speaker 1: I own up to it. Rebecca is coming clean. I'm

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Speaker 1: coming clean about parental accounts and Meg Ryan. So I've

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Speaker 1: already seen You've Got Mail, god knows how many times,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what's another Meg Ryan movie that

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen? And there's one called French Kiss. I

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Speaker 1: can't figure out where it is. I finally find it

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Speaker 1: on Amazon and I click it, and I feel victorious

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Speaker 1: for all about a half a second because it's not

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Speaker 1: available in my region, and I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: that means. Where is Blockbuster when you need it? Can't

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Speaker 1: you just rent it and they send the tea in

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Speaker 1: the mail. I do not miss those days standing in

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Speaker 1: front that wall of videotapes and you can't find anything.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought it smelled nice. It did

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Speaker 1: have a nice smell. Yeah, they had the popcorn up front.

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Speaker 1: This little radio production was brought to you by the

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Speaker 1: US based producers of the Big Take podcast, Empire, Mal Barrow,

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Speaker 1: Michael Falero, Rebecca Chasson, Sam Gobauer, Vicky Vergelina. How did

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Speaker 1: we get to this place? When we come back, my

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Speaker 1: colleague Felix Gillette is going to answer that question. I'm

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Speaker 1: here with my colleague Felix Gillette. He covers media for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and he is also the co author of the

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Speaker 1: upcoming book It's Not TV, The Spectacular, Rise, Revolution and

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Speaker 1: Future of HBO. Let me just ask you, you know,

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Speaker 1: we all hated the cable companies, and yet you could

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Speaker 1: kind of find all the shows, and now we have

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Speaker 1: better shows than ever before. And yet trying to remember

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Speaker 1: where everything is is maddening, and paying for all these

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Speaker 1: services is maddening. I think that we're now in this

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Speaker 1: weird phase where there's actually nostalgia coming for the cable bundle.

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Speaker 1: Forever people were complaining, Oh, I just wish we could

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Speaker 1: just get all these channels a la cart. Wouldn't that

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Speaker 1: be great? Part of the reason I wanted to write

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Speaker 1: a book about HBO was this whole era of home

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Speaker 1: entertainment for the past forty years, the cable satellite era

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Speaker 1: was coming to an end. How do you make that

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Speaker 1: transition to this new era of streaming. For a long

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Speaker 1: time it was basically Netflix just completely was dominating the

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Speaker 1: streaming space, right, And Yeah, this proliferation of services that's

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Speaker 1: happened in the past two years in some ways, like

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Speaker 1: you said, it's amazing for consumers. There's just so much

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Speaker 1: incredible programming out there, But it also is kind of confusing.

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Speaker 1: Where do you watch this stuff? You know, do you

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Speaker 1: have the subscription, do you remember your past code? But

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Speaker 1: in your book, you kind of take us back to

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Speaker 1: the beginning of how we got here, like why and

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Speaker 1: the seeds of it seemed to be in HBO kind

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Speaker 1: of realizing the future. But Netflix as the new player

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Speaker 1: looking at the big dominant HBO saying we're gonna overtake them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's such big rivals now. It's fun to think back

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Speaker 1: that for a while, HBO and Netflix were really copasetic partners. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the DVD era when Netflix was a

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Speaker 1: service that you went on the Internet and you you know,

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Speaker 1: looked at your queue and you browsed all these different

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Speaker 1: options and they would send you the DVDs by mail.

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Speaker 1: Um And during that era, Netflix bought a ton of

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Speaker 1: DVDs from HBO because people wanted to watch the Sopranos,

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Speaker 1: people want to watch The Wire, people wanted to watch

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Speaker 1: Six ft Under, they wanted to binge them on DVD.

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Speaker 1: They wanted together, and they would get them through Netflix.

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Speaker 1: And so Netflix was a great customer for HBO. All

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Speaker 1: the shows you just named, they were all HBO. They

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Speaker 1: were the place to go outside the Hollywood system. We

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Speaker 1: didn't have all these independent content creators yet it was

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Speaker 1: kind of HBO was the goliath. When you saw that

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Speaker 1: that statucky screen and you heard that signature intro sound

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Speaker 1: that they played that st You're like, knew you were

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Speaker 1: in for something good. Yeah, And then there's this amazing

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Speaker 1: transition where you know, uh, Netflix decides, you know what,

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Speaker 1: there's this new technology. We can send programming right into

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Speaker 1: people's homes via streaming. You can click a button, your

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Speaker 1: show will start playing. You don't have to wait for

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Speaker 1: the DVDs to come in the mail. And they launched

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Speaker 1: the streaming service, and what are they going to put

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Speaker 1: on there? Well, one thing they really wanted was for

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Speaker 1: the streaming service was those HBO shows because they saw

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Speaker 1: it in the data from the DVDs and HBO the

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Speaker 1: executive said, you know what, we're not interested in in

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Speaker 1: letting you uh have our licensed content for this new service.

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Speaker 1: During that process, it's sort of started dawn on the

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Speaker 1: folks at Netflix that you know what, it's really just

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Speaker 1: a matter of time. Somewhere in the future, we're all

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Speaker 1: of these big studios and big brands, they're all gonna decide,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we want our own streaming services. We

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Speaker 1: want to go directly to the customer. We're gonna clawback

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Speaker 1: our stuff. And it really dawned on Netflix executives that

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Speaker 1: they were going to have to start making their own

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Speaker 1: original programming. They thought, well, you know, we'll have a

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Speaker 1: couple of years before we're going to have to start

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Speaker 1: doing this. And really within a couple of months, they

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Speaker 1: saw this opportunity to license a new sw that was

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Speaker 1: being shopped around called House of Cards. And there's this

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Speaker 1: great moment where basically Netflix swoops in and makes this

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Speaker 1: huge offer and it was like more than anyone had

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Speaker 1: ever offered for a show, had ever paid for something

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Speaker 1: that hadn't been seen before. We're gonna guarantee two full

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Speaker 1: seasons just they offered a hundred million dollars for these

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Speaker 1: two seasons of House of Cards, UM and it actually

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Speaker 1: ended up being a great bet by Netflix. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people were astounded at the time. How could they offer

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Speaker 1: that much? They're overpaying. It's such a what are they doing?

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Speaker 1: And so now you have this new player on the

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Speaker 1: scene and they have their own kind of signature looking

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Speaker 1: sound that's immediately recognizable. Yeah, and you know, House of

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Speaker 1: Cards ended up being a very seminal show for Netflix

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Speaker 1: because it really put them on the map and established

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Speaker 1: themselves as like, we're going to be a year in

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Speaker 1: original programming in prestige drama, the most expensive genre there is.

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Speaker 1: And it was just kind of a fascinating moment. And

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Speaker 1: that was really the start of this rivalry HBO Max,

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Speaker 1: Netflix and what they anticipated did happen. Just in the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years. Then you had the launch of

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Speaker 1: Disney Plus, you had the launch of HBO Max, you

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Speaker 1: know how Paramount plus, you have Apple doing their own

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Speaker 1: original streaming. UM fall of two thousand twenty two, I

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Speaker 1: think is this incredible moment which I like to think

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Speaker 1: of as kind of the blockbuster moment in streaming entertainment

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Speaker 1: because you have Amazon Prime rolling out their Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings series. You know, they paid two fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollars for the rights to make a TV series and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna end up spending over a billion dollars on

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Speaker 1: this by the time they roll out four or five seasons.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, HBO Max has rolled out The

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Speaker 1: House of the Dragon, which is this hugely expensive series.

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Speaker 1: Netflix has uh The Sandman, which is also big expensive

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Speaker 1: sci fi series. Disney Plus has She Hulk. So all

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Speaker 1: these really big expensive programming landing on the streaming services,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, all of these services are

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Speaker 1: under enormous pressure to try and start cutting their losses.

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Speaker 1: What is like, what's the economics of this? Are they

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Speaker 1: actually making money off of these? Well, for a long time,

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Speaker 1: I think Netflix benefited from kind of the you know,

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Speaker 1: the dominant paradigm and tech investing, which was like Wall

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Speaker 1: Street love to invest in businesses that were losing money

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Speaker 1: as long as they were gaining in scale, just gain customers.

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Speaker 1: You can charge below market rates for the product, but

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Speaker 1: you have to eat up market share. We just want

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Speaker 1: to growth, growth, growth, growth, growth, and and Netflix benefited

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Speaker 1: from that for a long time because they can always

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Speaker 1: spend and spend and spend and keep increasing how much

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Speaker 1: they were spending on things. And really this year is

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Speaker 1: the first time where all of a sudden, because of

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Speaker 1: all this new competition from these other streaming services, Netflix

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Speaker 1: stop growing. They actually lost customers this year for the

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Speaker 1: first time and forever, and Wall Street is suddenly like, wait,

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Speaker 1: if it's not if you're not growing, if you're not

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Speaker 1: going to have like huge growth, we're going to start

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Speaker 1: looking at your margins a little bit more. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: start looking at how much you're spending to feel. Like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned these companies trying to stem their losses. They're

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Speaker 1: making really expensive shows. Can they actually pay for them

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Speaker 1: or is it is the model that we just have

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Speaker 1: to keep paying subscriptions to each ones to try to

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Speaker 1: support all of this. I think that's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure. And right now a lot of that money

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Speaker 1: that goes into the streaming services to pay for these

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Speaker 1: huge shows is coming from those legacy cable channels. So

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Speaker 1: you know, Disney still has the Disney Channel, and even

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Speaker 1: the less and less people are watching those cable channels.

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Speaker 1: That's where the money is still coming from. But obviously

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Speaker 1: that era is dimming. They're going to need to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to pay for all this stuff. One is

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Speaker 1: that the you know, your subscriptions for all these services

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Speaker 1: are going to go up, right, they're already going up.

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Speaker 1: And they think also at some point, we're just going

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Speaker 1: to see more consolidation. When you say consolidate, do you

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Speaker 1: mean that the bigger ones are gonna swallow their smaller ones,

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Speaker 1: or that they're going to reconstitute the cable bundle just

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Speaker 1: as a streaming bundle under one price, and then we

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Speaker 1: just have cable again without the cable I think it

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Speaker 1: will be both. I mean, I think in the short

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Speaker 1: term you're already seeing bundling happening. You know, in order

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Speaker 1: to have enough customers, they need to have less services

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Speaker 1: in the marketplace. So it seems like what we're looking

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Speaker 1: at is a future where we get a lot of

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Speaker 1: great shows them and maybe we're paying one price, but

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Speaker 1: we're still not all that happy about it. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I also wonder what's going to happen. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: trend that we've seen in the movie theaters for the

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Speaker 1: past you know, twenty years has been this move towards

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Speaker 1: blockbuster movies. Right, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is kind of

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Speaker 1: the what everybody wants. But as you know, movie theaters

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Speaker 1: have moved more and more towards blockbusters. There's been this

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Speaker 1: simultaneous process where, you know, less independent films get made,

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Speaker 1: middle range projects don't get made as much, And I'm

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Speaker 1: curious it'll be interesting to see if a similar um

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Speaker 1: dynamic plays out in streaming too. Felix, it looks like

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Speaker 1: one way that the services are trying to capture more

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Speaker 1: revenue is cracking down on password sharing. We've seen that

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Speaker 1: from Netflix and other services. Uh, Or do you think

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Speaker 1: that we're gonna start to see more ways where they're

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Speaker 1: going to try and squeeze more money out of each subscription? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think that for a long long time they were

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Speaker 1: pretty lenient. They didn't really worry too much about it.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I think the pressure is ramping up

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Speaker 1: to really monetize every single person that's using the service,

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Speaker 1: and that does mean making sure that if you're watching it,

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Speaker 1: you're paying for it. And simultaneously, the other way that

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Speaker 1: Netflix is dealing with all this is they've announced, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're going to launch a advertising on the service on

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Speaker 1: the platform for the first time. That will allow them

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Speaker 1: to offer a less expensive Netflix. You know, instead of

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Speaker 1: paying fifteen dollars a month, let's say you'll pay seven

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Speaker 1: dollars a month and you'll see some ads. Um. And

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Speaker 1: broadcast television, which was advertised and supported and commercial supported,

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Speaker 1: there are always limits on what you could do artistically

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Speaker 1: on television because advertisers would get nervous about you know, uh, violence,

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Speaker 1: moral complexity. Um. You know, story is about addiction. They

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Speaker 1: didn't want stories about prison. There are all sorts of

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Speaker 1: things you couldn't do on broadcast television. If you moved

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Speaker 1: it to format that was advertising free, suddenly there was

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Speaker 1: a lot more creative freedom and that led to this huge, um,

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Speaker 1: you know revolution in the art of television that happened

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Speaker 1: on HBO. UM. And it'll be interesting now to see

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Speaker 1: almost the reverse process as uh service like Netflix that

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Speaker 1: has also operated in this ad free, commercial free environment

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Speaker 1: for you know, it's twenty five years of existence. Suddenly

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Speaker 1: they're going to have advertisements while they're also going to

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Speaker 1: have sponsors looking over their shoulders. And what that will

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Speaker 1: do the programming. We'll have to see Felix, Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for being here, and good luck with the book. Last,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. When we come back, I talked

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Speaker 1: to my colleague look at Shaw, and he's gonna tell

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Speaker 1: us what is all needs for, which shows made and

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Speaker 1: which ones don't the best time. The following movie is

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Speaker 1: rated R. All right, I'm here with my colleague Lucas Shaw.

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Speaker 1: Lucas covers the entertainment business for Bloomberg, and one thing

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to ask you is somebody who

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Speaker 1: really watches this close up is have all these new

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Speaker 1: streaming services had a big effect on the kinds of

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Speaker 1: shows that are being produced. The biggest impact that they've

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Speaker 1: had has been on the volume of shows being made

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Speaker 1: and on the money going into every show. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: you had a certain number of shows being made on broadcast,

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Speaker 1: let's call it a hundred fifty a year. Then cable

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Speaker 1: comes in, after the success of HBO layers on a

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Speaker 1: n other hundred fifty. We get to three hundred shows

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Speaker 1: a year. The Netflix comes in. Now we're at more

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Speaker 1: than five hundred shows just scripted being made every year.

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Speaker 1: You add hundreds of unscripted to say nothing of news

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Speaker 1: or sports. It's a good thing for a lot of

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Speaker 1: creative people, because it just means that there's more buyers,

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Speaker 1: more opportunities, But it also means I think that less

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Speaker 1: care tends to go into every single show. Um. The

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Speaker 1: The other upside if you're a creative person, and to

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Speaker 1: some extent, if you're your someone at home, is that

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Speaker 1: a lot of these companies are spending more per episode,

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Speaker 1: at least on the biggest show, and so the quality

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Speaker 1: of what you're seeing on TV looks more and more

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Speaker 1: like film than it might have before. That must mean

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Speaker 1: that the kind of middle of the pack and the

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Speaker 1: kind of lower end of the tier really aren't getting

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Speaker 1: much of an audience at all. You have a lot

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Speaker 1: of programs where you you have to wonder who is

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Speaker 1: watching them. I mean, look, I cover the business of

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Speaker 1: of entertainment for a living. I watch a fair amount

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Speaker 1: of television, although I at least hope I have other

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Speaker 1: interests and there will be so many shows that come

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Speaker 1: and go that I've never heard of. So what happens

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Speaker 1: to those shows? You know, on network TV, the shows

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Speaker 1: would get kind of canceled if they didn't perform, because

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Speaker 1: there were only a few networks and those slats were

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Speaker 1: really really precious now that you have so many of them,

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Speaker 1: so many slots, so much time to fill. Do shows

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Speaker 1: live on forever? So the good news if you're a

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Speaker 1: creator a fan of a show is that most streaming

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Speaker 1: services will commit to a season, and if there's big

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Speaker 1: talent involved, they'll commit to two. Um and so shows

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Speaker 1: do last, or the bad shows last a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: The counter to that is that the good shows don't

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Speaker 1: last as longer, don't stay on forever. I mean you look,

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Speaker 1: you know, across the board on TV and they'll be

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Speaker 1: a law and order show that's on for twenty seasons,

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Speaker 1: or Gray's Anatomy is now in its eighteenth or nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: I forget which season. There's no show like that that's

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Speaker 1: last that long and streaming now. Some of that, of course,

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Speaker 1: is because streaming is newer, but but by and large

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Speaker 1: Netflix will cancel its biggest or end its biggest hits

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Speaker 1: after five or six seasons. I think Grace and Frankie

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Speaker 1: this show with Jane Fond and Lily Tomlin is the

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Speaker 1: longest running Netflix original at like seven or eight seasons.

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Speaker 1: So it's the biggest change from the old days when

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Speaker 1: you know it was it was broadcast TV or kind

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Speaker 1: of nothing else untill now in the way shows are

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Speaker 1: kind of created and and the marketplace for different kinds

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Speaker 1: of shows, the process has traditionally been instill is at

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Speaker 1: a lot of places that you you sell a script

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Speaker 1: or a series of scripts for a show, and then

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Speaker 1: you develop it, and then you make the pilot that

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Speaker 1: first episode, and then based on that pilot, they decide

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Speaker 1: if they want to continue, and if they choose to continue,

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Speaker 1: then they'll usually pick it up for a season, and

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Speaker 1: then they'll make that season and then it'll kind of

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Speaker 1: continue or not. Netflix has not historically believed in pilots,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of streaming services. Amazon is similar in this,

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Speaker 1: where it will just pick up a season, and that

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Speaker 1: sort of gets back to what we were talking about

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Speaker 1: before with kind of even the bad shows will last

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Speaker 1: a little bit longer, and part of that is because

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Speaker 1: they're not they're choosing not to make a pilot upfront

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Speaker 1: because that is seen as inefficient. One thing that we

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Speaker 1: are seeing is a lot more diversity in the kind

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Speaker 1: of shows that that are shown on TV. Yes and no.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think when you if you see an

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Speaker 1: increase in the volume being made, that does create more

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Speaker 1: opportunities and and as a result of various social movements

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Speaker 1: over the last few years, there's been greater efforts on

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Speaker 1: the part of all these companies to make shows written by,

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Speaker 1: created by directed by starring both women and people of color.

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Speaker 1: So I think the numbers have generally moved in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. They're not where most folks would like to

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Speaker 1: see them, but they have uh, they have improved. The

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Speaker 1: one area that hasn't really changed all that much, as

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Speaker 1: the executive suites where almost all these companies are are

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Speaker 1: still run by white men. Kind of a companion to

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Speaker 1: that that I would say is there has been this

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Speaker 1: globalization of media and attainment. Um and so I'm in

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Speaker 1: the middle right now of watching a Korean drama. Now

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Speaker 1: part of that because I'm working on a story about

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Speaker 1: a Korean production company. But you've seen a surge in

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Speaker 1: viewership and interest in international television, most of which features

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Speaker 1: people who don't look like us. If you're someone with

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Speaker 1: an idea, it is still possible to kind of come

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Speaker 1: from the outside and assume, especially if you have an

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Speaker 1: agent or manager and try to sell it to a studio,

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Speaker 1: try to sell it to a network. You'll see bidding

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Speaker 1: oars for you know, unattached projects. But by and large,

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Speaker 1: most writers or producers of any renown have an overall

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Speaker 1: deal at a studio, which gives that studio, whether it's

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Speaker 1: Sony or Warner Brothers or Disney or Netflix, the first

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Speaker 1: right to make whatever idea or project that they have.

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes that person is also attached in some way to

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Speaker 1: a TV network or streaming service, in large part because

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Speaker 1: most of the TV studios are now owned by companies

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Speaker 1: that also have a networker service, and they're trying to

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Speaker 1: funnel all the best ideas from their studio to the service.

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Speaker 1: Disney is probably the ultimate example of this, where pretty

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Speaker 1: much anything you see on Disney Plus or Hulu has

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Speaker 1: come from one of Disney's TV studios. Lucas Feelings that

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00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: also talked about this kind of blockbuster phenomenon starting to

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Speaker 1: take hold more and more in the streaming television realm

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Speaker 1: to where they're really looking for a big, big hits. Um,

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Speaker 1: how is that affected, you know, just your sort of moderate,

436
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: normal television show that isn't a monster hit. Well, I

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00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: think there's there's some concern among the average writer, writer, director, writer,

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Speaker 1: producer that streaming is gonna resemble the movie business a

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00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: little bit more. There was um sort of an outpour

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00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: ring of of creativity or a willingness to take risks

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00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: on projects because when Netflix or Amazon started, they were

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00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: relatively unknown. People didn't know what a show for them

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00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: should look like, and so they had to they had

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00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: to take bigger risks to get shows made that either

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Speaker 1: meant financially, so Netflix committing to you know, two seasons

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00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: of House of Cards on a hundred million dollars or

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00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: betting on a kind of a relatively unproven talent or

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00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: an idea that was you know, outside the box. And

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Speaker 1: I think this led to a lot of really great

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00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: and interesting television in the early phases of streaming that

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00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 1: has continued since then. What you're seeing now is a

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00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: lot of these networks get more and more conservative because

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00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: part of it is they're bigger, right, so they're trying

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Speaker 1: to find the shows that can appeal to as many

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00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: different people as possible. I think after Netflix had a

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00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: big hit like Bridgetain, you know that, which was sort

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00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: of like the type of show that you would have

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00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: seen on a broadcast network instead of the type of

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00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: show you've seen on you'd see on HBO, it wanted

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00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: more shows like that. When it has a squid game,

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00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: which is, you know, this unprecedented global hit, it wants

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00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: more shows like that. The tricky part, of course, is

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00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: that the biggest hits are always surprises. Nobody ever sees

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00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: them coming, and so you get conservative and try to

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00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: plan for the big hit, you might actually be likely

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00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: to miss whatever that next great show is because you're

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00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: you're looking for something that resembles something you had before

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00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: instead of looking for something that nobody's ever seen before.

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Speaker 1: Are you optimistic about the kinds of shows we're all

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00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: going to get to watch? I'm a little bit torn.

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00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I think there's been too much

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00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: television made over the last few years, and some of

473
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: the quality filters have have gone away, um, because you

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00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: have creative executive these companies who are overseeing too many

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00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: different projects. And I do think that some brilliance comes

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00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: out of limiting yourself. And so if we're entering an

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00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: era of greater fiscal responsibility, as weird as it sounds,

478
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: that might be kind of good, um, because it will

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00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: force people to be more selective about what they make.

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00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you know, it does feel like

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00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: a lot of these companies are going to get safer

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00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: and safer streaming will feel a little bit more like broadcast.

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00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: It will feel a little bit less fun, but there's

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00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: more money and energy going into television than ever before.

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00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: On a more optimistic note, there's gonna be more and

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00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: more emphasis on overseas territories, which means you'll see more

487
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: and more investment in storytelling from other parts of the world.

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Speaker 1: And that's, without question been one of my favorite parts

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00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: of kind of the streaming revolution in Hollywood is that

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Speaker 1: you now can watch shows from Japan, South Korea, France, Brazil,

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Speaker 1: Mexico with relative ease. Lukashaw, thanks so much for coming

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Speaker 1: on the show. Thanks Wess, Thanks for listening to us

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Speaker 1: here at The Big Take, the daily podcast from Bloomberg

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00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: and my Heart Radio. For more shows from my Heart Radio,

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00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

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Speaker 1: Read Today's story and subscribe to our daily newsletter at

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00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us with questions or comments to

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00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of

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00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: The Big Take is Vicky Ergolina, Our senior producer is

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00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:22,160
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00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: Sam Debauer. Rafael lum Cilli is our engineer. Original music

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00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm Westkasova. We'll be back tomorrow with

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Speaker 1: another big take. H