WEBVTT - Arizona AG Mayes on Antitrust, PFAS and More 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.439 Welcome to Votes and Verdicts, hosted by the Litigation and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.040 Policy team at Bloomberg Intelligence, the investment research arm of 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.520 Bloomberg LP. This podcast series examines the intersection of business 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.960 policy and the law. I'm justinterreesa antitrust litigation and policy 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.000 analyst here at BI, and I'm. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.599 Holly Frome, VI litigation analyst. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.640 Before we jump into today's episode, just a quick word 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.400 about Bloomberg Intelligence. As I said, we're the investment research 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.320 platform on the Bloomberg terminal, with five hundred analysts and 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.040 strategists working across the globe and focused on all major markets. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.159 Our coverage includes over two thousand equities and credits, and 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.840 we have outlooks on more than ninety industries and one 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.360 hundred market indices, currencies and commodities. So in many circles 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.840 our guests today really needs no introduction, and that's increasingly 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.399 increasingly the case nationwide, well beyond the borders of her 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.760 home state Arizona. Arizona Attorney General Chris Mays took office 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.000 in January twenty twenty three, and as we'll talk about today, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.199 has been on the front and center on every corner 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.760 of the law affecting the public interests, since this follows 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.720 a long career both in journalism and prior public service 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.119 as a commissioner at the Arizona Corporation Commission, also making headlines. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.080 May's left the Republican Party in twenty nineteen and became 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.800 a Democrat. But there's probably nobody better to tell the 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.400 AG story than the AG herself. So without further ado, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.280 I'm so glad to introduce today's guests at Arizona Attorney 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.200 General Chris Mays AG. May's welcome to Votes and Verdicts. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:44.760 Good morning. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.480 It's great to be with you, justin absolutely so. It 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.880 is so excited to have you today. I have to 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.480 tell you, at the top of a little bit starstruck, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.280 my parents actually live in Tucson, so you're a bit 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.760 of a celebrity in their house. Whenever I go out there, 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.480 they're very political. Love they're MSNBC, and I have to say, 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.240 every time I set foot in the house, they're gushing 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.840 about all of the different things that you're evolved with 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.680 right now in your office. So just to frame the 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.760 conversation with that at the start. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.200 Tell them thank you and hope to see them sometime 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:16.760 down at p mccunny. 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.799 Absolutely absolutely, So kind of a threshold question, we ask 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.640 all of our guests what brought you to where you 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.400 are today, What really I think motivated you to become 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.760 the AG in Arizona, and what's the path you kind 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:29.560 of took to get there. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:35.520 Well, you know, as you mentioned, I've had a windy, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.440 interesting and sometimes weird paths to public service, and in 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.919 public service, it's been a fascinating life. I started in journalism, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:52.280 ended up working as ben governor of Politano's press secretary. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.600 She pointed me to Arizona's Public Utilities Commission, where I 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:00.960 spent seven and a half years regulating our monopoly utilities 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.639 are right utilities, and that's kind of where my interest 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:13.400 at protecting consumers and in antitrust law started in regulating monopolies. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.040 Then went on to become a professor of energy lot 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:23.520 a ISSU and in you know, twenty twenty one ish, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.080 and in twenty twenty two, I decided to run for 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:33.600 Attorney general. We obviously had seen the January sixth insurrection happened. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.440 I was really worried about our democracy, so I decided 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:45.720 to leave the private sector and go back into politics, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.080 and ended up winning my AG race by two hundred 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.640 and eighty votes. It was the closest statewide race in 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:52.760 Arizona history. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.800 So yeah, yes, so close. It really a side at 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.040 the times I feel like about where we are politically too, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.120 not just because I don't know a nationwide yeah exactly. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.680 So I think, you know, kind of kind of piggybacking 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.880 what you said there about January sixth and the motivations 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.160 there from Bronning. It seems like with the change of 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.960 presidential administrations this month, you know, we've seen kind of 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.800 a political shift in priorities in DC and just generally speaking, 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.159 how do you see those changes? They are changing your 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.680 role as AG in Arizona or or I guess the 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.440 roles of ags nationwide. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.880 Well, and you know, it is interesting. It's it has 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:33.360 added a layer onto uh, you know, our jobs and 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.880 and you know, I think, you know, protecting and upholding 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.920 the constitution and the rule of law is has always 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.000 been important to attorneys general, but that has just gotten 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:52.000 even more important now as we see these multiple efforts 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:58.320 already by the Trump administration to shred constitution, ignore do process. 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.000 We're going to fight back against that. We can talk 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.400 more about that, but you know, our role in my 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.840 role as AG is generally the same. It's holding federal 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.840 government in addition to large corporations and other institutions, accountable 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.120 for following the law and upholding the US, the US 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.680 and Arizona constitution, you know, enforcing antitrust law, which I 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.279 think we're going to talk about, Yeah, making sure that 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.640 we protect consumers. I guess what I see is a 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:33.760 growing and in some ways menacing consolidation of corporate power 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:41.880 that definitely forms consumers in Arizona, whether it's renters or 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.359 folks going to the grocery store. That is a huge 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.480 focus of my efforts here as AG and Arizona. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:51.720 Right, right, And I think you touched a little bit 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.120 about on this already, but you know, if you could 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.920 talk a little bit more about just antitrust generally and 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.359 how you see a state AG kind of playing a 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.280 role in using those laws to benefit the public interest. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.640 You know that when something might not be you know, 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.120 happening that you think needs to at the federal level. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.960 Yeah, So, you know, it's really interesting not not not 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:17.719 everybody knows that that most states have their own antitrust laws. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.320 I think not every state does, but right or it 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:26.560 certainly does have what's called the uniform antitrust law or 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:32.480 Anti Trust Act. We also have consumer fraud laws that 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:38.919 allow us to attack, uh, you know, the consolidation of 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.320 corporate power when it harms consumers and when it becomes 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:49.039 deceptive or unfair. So our consumer law consumer fraud laws 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.719 prevent unfair practices. And so we've been using those anti 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.479 trust laws, sometimes on our own, but also sometimes in 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:04.560 tandem and in partnership with the FTC, especially under Lena Khan. Sure, 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.839 and you know, we can we talk about those cases, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.880 the Real Page cases of a real time example of that, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.640 where we sued a company called real Page which was 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.640 using an algorithm to collude with nine major landlords in 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:27.840 Arizona and to you know, to set prices for rent 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.679 artificially high. They were using this algorithm to invite these 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.760 corporate landlords to input which should have been proprietary competitive 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.080 data into their algorithm, and the algorithm spat out a 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.760 price for all of them to set in you know, 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.480 at their apartment complexes in Arizona. And what result, what 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:56.720 was the result was that they all set the same price, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:02.760 which was artificially high. And I called it the old 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.280 fashioned price fixing using new technology. So we sued them. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.280 We were the first state ag other than the District 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:16.360 of Columbia to sue Real Page for that collusion. And 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.600 and that you know, that collusion we allege has had 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:27.640 a tremendously deleterious impact, tremendously you know, a really awful 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.960 impact on renters in Arizona. The price rent is skyrocketed 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.040 seventy six percent. It's twenty sixteen. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.080 Right, Wow, Wow, that's a sounding. Yeah. Absolutely, it's really bad. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.800 And you know, more than seventy percent of the apartment 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.560 complexes in that Phoenix are controlled by Real Page and 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.640 more than fifty percent in Tucson are controlled by Real 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.120 Page or one of Real Page as colluders. And that 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:59.400 means that you know a majority of renters in each 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.360 of those major cities in Arizona have been the victims 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:08.240 of corporate collusion. And that's not okay, We're going to 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.160 fight it. It has been one of the most that 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.240 is I think the lawsuit that I that I filed 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.400 as aging that it's resonated the most with Arizona's I 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.040 hear about it everywhere I know people talk I do. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.000 To you from my parents. 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:28.600 Absolutely, it's definitely hit home as they say, actually where 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:30.559 home is an apartment complex. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.360 Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting you see that. And 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.160 you know, obviously the statistics you're throwing around too with 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.560 regard to the market share in Phoenix and Tucson where 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.320 where the algorithm is being deployed. You it certainly isn't 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.560 this kind of pie in the sky kind of concept. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.000 It does sound like it's having this resonation with everyday Arizona. 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:49.920 And so, you know, can you talk a little bit 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.360 about what the reception has been from folks on the 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.319 campaign trail or constituents or whenever you're you're talking with folks, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.320 you know, what's the reaction you've kind of gotten from 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.600 folks in recent months over the suit. You know, the. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:06.720 Reaction has been really strong and and people are grateful. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.160 Everywhere I go, this is this is the thing they 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.360 bring up with me, and they thank me in our 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.240 office for for bringing this lawsuit. I am told that 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.480 during the last election cycle, when volunteers would go to 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:26.319 doors and knock on doors, people would voluntarily bring up 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.280 this lawsuit and say to the to the folks who 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.720 are knocking on doors campaigning, oh do you do you 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.040 know about Chris Mases. Are you here to campaign for 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.800 Chris Mays because you really like that lawsuit that she 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.440 and I'm not once en up on the on the 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:48.960 ballot in four, but it's resonated so much that you know, 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.079 it's the thing people are bringing up. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.880 And you might have found something we could all agree on. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.000 It seems like from the historia telling for sure. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.240 And that's Republicans and Democrats and independ it's because we're 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.079 all they're all renters, I mean renters, you know, span 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:11.360 the political landscape right and the economic landscape. I will say, 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:16.320 I think it's you know, young people are probably hit 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.679 really hard by this because oftentimes it's young people are 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.720 living in apartment complexes. And we certainly see that people 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.920 in their twenties and people in their thirties who here 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.840 in Arizona can't afford to buy a house because it's 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:35.240 so hard to buy a house anymore. And so that 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:41.280 this is just I think exacerbated and already difficult housing 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.480 landscape and made affordability in housing even worse. And so 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.360 we're going to continue to prosecute this case, and we're 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.400 going to do other cases like it. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.800 Got it, got it, and you interestingly too, the way 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.520 you brought this case. You know, we saw the DOJ 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.600 they added some landlords to their against real page earlier 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.960 on this in January. But you know, I know landlords, 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.400 they've been included in your lawsuit from the very start. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.200 And I'm just wondering if you view your litigation in 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.640 Arizona as different from DOJ's, And you know, why do 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.760 you think it's important for Arizona to have its own 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.240 case when there's this federal action that's out there. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.200 Yeah, and we filed before the DOJ did, and absolutely 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.400 we included those nine major landlords because they were they 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.680 were colluders, they were to the scheme, and so we 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.040 felt like it was important to hold them accountable. They 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.880 knew what they were doing, they knew what the software 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.520 package was doing. They were being told, and the people 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.760 who who rented apartments in those buildings were being told, 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.760 do not deviate from this price, don't go down on 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.440 the price. You know, it got so bad that, you know, 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.600 here in Phoenix, when you look around the landscape and 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.400 I'm looking around at the buildings here around mind, you 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.440 look in some of the buildings, some of them are 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.480 half empty. But these landlords don't care because as long 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.200 as they can keep ratcheting up the price on the 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.920 people who are in the buildings, they still keep increasing 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.800 their profits, which is just outrageous when you also have 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:20.240 a housing problem. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.040 Yeah yeah, definitely wide. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.199 Yeah yeah, I mean so many people moving to Arizona 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.520 who need housing, and yet these landlords have figured out 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.800 through this algorithm that they can just keep making a profit, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.079 not by competing, which is how it used to be done. Right, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.360 if you were a landlord in one building, and you 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.280 had one building and the guy next door to you 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.840 was also renting, you would compete with that person on price, right, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.920 you would lower your price so that you could attract 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.840 renters into your building. Well, now that when you've got 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.520 real page and you've got this algorithm, that doesn't matter anymore. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.319 You can just you know, keep colluding with your fellow 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.839 landlords to raise the rent. And that that's uh what 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.400 why we thought it was so important to include those landlords. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.720 And then with regard to d o J, I would 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.160 just say this, I I definitely hope that Attorney General 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:27.200 Bondi continues the lawsuit, right, and uh, you know, we 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.800 we we urge her to not drop this loss and 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.040 we think it's important. There are other states that that 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.680 did join the do o JA. We obviously filed our 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:44.240 lawsuit in state court out here in Arizona, but there 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:49.080 this is a bipartisan group of states UH that have 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:53.760 joined the Attorney General and d o j UH in 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:54.760 that lawsuit. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.840 So yeah, of states there, yeah, yeah, I mean. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.360 Obviously ours will go forward. We're not going to stop 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.120 out here in Arizona. But I think it's important for 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:10.600 DJ to to really keep planting that flag and move 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.160 forward with that case with that bipartisan group of states. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.160 Makes sense, And you know, I think it's interesting too. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.920 I think, you know, the the proposition of the algorithmics software. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.640 I think a lot of folks who've been looking at 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.960 the litigation that kind of take this view of it's saying, hey, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.480 is this a situation where the law needs to catch 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.560 up with technology or really does the law as it 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.200 exists in compass actually what's happening already? Right, So you know, 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.680 it sounds like your view and that of DJ really 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.120 has been that you know, this is this is price fixing. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.000 It is a conspiracy, even though it might be happening 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.120 a bit differently than we're used to you know, with 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.200 a smoke filled room or or you know, a handshake, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.080 you know, outside of a convention or something like that. Right, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.680 but exactly it is, it is. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.880 It is really textbook price fixing. It's just using new technology. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:06.160 It's you know, it's precisely what these laws. Interestingly enough, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.960 it's precisely what these anti trust laws were written to prevent. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.960 Right right. Well, I think kind of switching gears a 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.320 little bit here too. I think going back a bit 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.160 too to what you would express when we were kind 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.880 of kind of coming in about the consolidation of corporate power. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.000 You know. Another other big example of things your office 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.520 has been involved with lately was your recent work around 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:33.320 blocking that Kroeger Albertson's mega merger in the grocery space. First, congratulations, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.040 this is a huge antitrust way on the merger side. 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.040 But if you could talk a little bit about why 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:39.960 you wanted to be involved in that particular case and 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.920 your work around stopping that deal, I think that'd be 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.400 really really interesting for our listeners as well. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.800 Yeah, thank you so much. It was a huge win 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.960 for consumers all throughout this country and and in Arizona, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.200 and we we blocked the Kroger Albertson's murder from moving forward, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.880 we had we had joined the f TC. That was 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.320 another one where the FDC played a really pivotal role 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.600 and I hope they will continue to do that even 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:12.400 though they don't have Lena Kahn anymore. But they need 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:17.360 to continue that role. And we sued and stopped the merger. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.080 The guy traveled all over Arizona, through out Arizona, especially 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:27.800 rural Arizona places like Kingman, Sholo, Sierra Vista, and almost uniformally, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.280 Arizonans were opposed to this merger because they knew that 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.440 the price of groceries is already too high. We've experienced 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:42.600 really severe inflation, just like every other state. And Arizonans 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.919 are really smart people, and we know that when you 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.879 allow this level of consolidation in the grocery industry, and 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:55.880 you allow yet another mega entity to dominate the grocery space, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.360 prices are likely to go up. All certainly would go up. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.960 Layoffs would happen. You know, these were two Kroger and 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.000 Albertson's which out here, Safeway and Fries. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.960 Oh yeah, absolutely, but my parents love fries. I hear you. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.720 They shop at Fries. I shop a Safeway. So you know, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.880 these are these two companies were two of the largest 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.120 seven of the two of the seven largest companies employers 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.120 in Arizona, right right. And so what we heard, especially 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:32.560 in rural communities is and in our cities like Tucson, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.200 was we're really worried they we're gonna this is gonna 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.800 they're gonna lay people off. In rural Arizona, sometimes these 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.960 grocery stores are literally the economic engine of the town. 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.640 They are the anchors of a shopping center, and they 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:53.280 employ people, and they're the economic center town people. We 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.880 heard from military members who were worried because they believed 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.280 one of the companies was not going to honor their 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:04.159 health insurance and their prescription drug insurance service and or 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.000 cards prescription drug cards. And then we also heard concerns 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.959 about the creation of additional not only food deserts, but 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.520 also pharmacy deserts and errors. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:16.040 Interesting. 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:21.680 Interesting, as these corporate conglomerations have have happened, we see 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:27.800 fewer and fewer independent pharmacies in rural Arizona as well. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.080 And absolutely another huge added trust issue, right half with 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.040 you with action by the FTC. That's right, that's right. Yeah, yes, 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.560 So so so much more than groceries obviously, which with 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.600 that particular merger there too, and you know, so kind 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.760 of turning the page, look turning the wheel a little 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.640 bit here, you know, speaking of state ags bringing cases, 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.040 you know, you know, we recently saw a suit by 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.760 Texas Attorney General Ken packs In against investment firms like 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.440 Black Rock and State Street, alleging that there was a 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.000 legal anti trust collusion between the banks because they participate 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.480 in climate climate change accords like the net zero initiative. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.840 What do you think about that? And what do you 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.040 think what do you think might be in store here 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.440 for an era where we see anti trust perhaps use 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.520 you know, in kind of a way that that that's 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.439 akin to weaponization looking at an environmental or ESG policies 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.800 that some corporate actors might have entered into. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:24.720 Well, I must say, justin as a former Republican, I 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.560 don't know what has happened to my former party, because 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.439 it used to be that Republicans believed the government didn't 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:37.000 have any place telling corporations how they should run their businesses. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.160 Especially That's what I was always told too. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.600 Yeah, it's necessary with regard to corporate governance. 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.200 Yeah, that was the one on one back in American 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.040 government many many many years ago for me. But anyway, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:48.720 go on. 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.320 No, I feel like I feel like we're in this 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.320 you know, the the the upside down and the stranger things. 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.960 You know, It's like, what side down world are we in? Here? 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.960 Wherever Bolicans think that it's okay to dictate to businesses 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:08.560 how they should you know, run their their businesses. You know, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.679 if you know, if if Walmart wants to put solar 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.199 panels on their rooftops and save money for them and 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.960 their consumers, I don't have a problem with that. What 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.560 I do have a problem with that would be an 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:22.720 ESG policy. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:23.040 Right. 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.960 What I do have a problem with is government telling businesses, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:32.439 whether small or large, that they can't do ESG, that 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:37.200 they can't improve their governance policies. And so that's why 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.880 I one of the first things that I did when 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.960 I took office as Attorney General of Arizona is I 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:49.040 got us out. I withdrew us from a highly politicized 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:55.560 investigation that my predecessor had had plunged Arizona into against 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:01.119 you know, banks that you know and mate firms that 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.479 were you know, and they were alleging or you know, 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.000 participating in this kind of collision. Yes, it's totally an 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.800 improper use of antitrust law and it's not something we're 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:14.080 going to do out here. 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.679 Yeah. Yeah, definitely, So obviously, so much happening at the 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.040 States right now, maybe both good and bad from an 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.080 anti trust perspective, but you know, I think certainly things 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.399 will be keeping our eye on, you know, for the 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.840 next four years and beyond. But you know, I'll head 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:31.800 it over and now to my colleague Holly from who's 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.720 really been knee deep in these Forever Chemicals litigations, and 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.440 I know your office has also been super busy with those, 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.520 So Hollie, if you want to jump in here and 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.000 Forever chemicals. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.800 Thanks, justin yep. So, we've been hearing a lot about 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.720 Forever Chemicals or peep Pass chemicals, and it's an issue 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.920 of that affects most Americans. Pep as A chemicals linked 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.000 to certain adverse health effects that have been found in 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.119 the drinking water of tens of millions of Americans, and 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.840 litigation against historic manufacturers and other manufacturers is whining. It's 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.280 tough the courts. I know your office has been at 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.000 the forefront of this litigation. Arizona file the lawsuit against 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.200 various firefighting foam or a triple F manufacturers, alleging peak 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:14.120 Fast causes caused contamination across the state. Over twenty states 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:16.400 at filed blows suaits, but a lot have not. What's 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.160 this lawsuit about? And why did Arizona decided file? Yeah? 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.960 Thanks? So this is we think this is one of 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:27.840 our most important lawsuits, certainly in the environmental sphere. But 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.160 you know, as you mentioned, we have joined the group 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:38.040 of states that have filed lawsuits against the manufacturers of 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:43.240 of you know, products that contained p fast and the 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:49.160 chemical companies that make the chemical, the p fast chemical. 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.919 Those defendants include three M and DuPont, among others, you know. 0:23:54.960 --> 0:24:00.600 And our our allegation is that these companies have known 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:05.119 for decades that these so called forever chemicals, which is 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:10.600 pete bass would contaminate water supplies. They did here in 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:15.240 Arizona and in elsewhere and elsewhere for generations to come, 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.439 but they chose to sell those products anyway, and they 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:22.200 didn't tell anybody that they knew these these things that 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:28.640 were dangerous, and they uh the failure by the pullugeters 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:32.440 to inform state regulators about those risks associated with the 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.800 chemicals has harmed our environment and the health of Arizonas 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.800 and we think they have to be held accountable. I mean, 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:44.879 these these compounds have been used in various industrial and 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:49.960 consumer products. They contamorated the environment. You know when you 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.159 they also have harmed firefighters. I will say, when you 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:56.720 talk to any firefighter in Arizona, they will talk to 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:01.520 you about the elevated levels of cancer that they have experienced, 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:06.000 including testicular cancer, because they're the ones who are around 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:12.080 this firefighting foam the most. But it's also made its 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:19.399