WEBVTT - Jen Celotta - Pt. 2 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.880 I'm Emilia on this podcast, I'm taking you on a search, 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:10.600 a search for love, hard working Latina, but there were 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.680 other reasons I felt like I couldn't always beat myself. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:18.759 My mom's in prison. This Crumbs my love story. It's 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:20.520 a show about the things we set up for and 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.880 the bits of ourselves that make us who we are. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.720 Listen to Crumbs on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.159 or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out the new 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.080 podcast I Am Kobe. Do you want to understand how 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.000 Kobe Bryant achieved his unequal determination? How did he come 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.559 to his incredible passion to win? In I Am Kobe, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.319 we reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.559 he was a teenager, just as he was starting to 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.040 glimpse his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.760 We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.040 his friends, and the figures who knew him in his youth. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.840 All epis sods a route now so you can binge 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.679 the whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.240 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, and wherever you get 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.360 your podcasts. M Hey, Elizabeth you're the co host of 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.000 that new podcast, Ridiculous Crime. Why yes, I am. You 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.080 know what's ridiculous? Yeah, carpeting in kitchens and bathrooms? Oh wow, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.800 you are good. But you know what's also ridiculous? A 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.240 sixteen year old who breaks into a car dealership and 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.840 steals guy theories Lamborghini, what yes to impress a girl. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.679 I'll tell you all about it on Ridiculous Crime, our 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.679 podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heist and cons. It's 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:41.840 always murder free and ridiculous. Listen to Ridiculous Crime on 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.959 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:54.040 get your podcasts. I'm Jen Slada and I was a 0:01:54.040 --> 0:02:08.040 writer on the Office. Oh she's back, everybody. Hello there, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:14.080 Welcome to another fan freaking tastic installment of the Office 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.520 Deep Dive. As always, I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner, and 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:23.840 yeah she is back. Baby. The lafy ist writer from 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:29.520 our set, probably the lafiest person on this podcast, let's 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.720 be honest, the person who actually got welts in her 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.960 cheeks from trying to hold it in. That's what she said. Uh, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.520 Jen Salata. If you haven't listened to part one of 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.880 our conversation. Do it? Okay, just go check that out first, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.360 because today Jen and I circle back to talk about 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.640 what it was really like to be a writer on 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.840 the Office, how she started to blur reality from TV, 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.519 and how she helped write some of the most classic 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:08.920 love stories in modern history, from Michael and Holly The 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:13.079 Match Made in Heaven, to Dwight and Angela The Match 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:18.359 Made in No I don't know anyways, I love Jen. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:24.160 Jen is was always an absolute delight to have on set. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.680 And let me tell you, she has some stories. And 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:35.960 speaking of stories, seamless transition right there, we have a 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:40.320 place for you to see a bunch of stories, the 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:45.400 greatest stories ever. Right now you can pre order on Amazon. 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.080 It's called Welcome to dunder Mifflin, The Ultimate Oral History 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.480 of the Office. It comes out next week if you're 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.320 listening to this live ish. All right, So if you 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.600 love this podcast, if you love this show, I will 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:06.360 garn to you, well guarantee, I can garrolt you're gonna 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.000 love this book too. And well the other thing I 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.680 can guaranty, of course, is that you're going to love 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.839 the wonderful, the brilliant, the magnificent friend of mine that 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:28.040 is coming on right now, Jen Silata Bubble and Squeak. 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:35.719 I love Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker Cookie 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:50.000 every moment, lift over from the nut before. Where did 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.800 the idea behind getting Dwight and Angela together come from? 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.800 Oh my gosh, I would imagine it was something from 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.760 the O G Gang, the Greg or Mike or I 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.039 or Paul. I'm not sure. I just remember the idea 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.640 that the two of them were so strong and so specific, 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.919 and I think I couldn't see dwighte with anyone, and 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.560 it couldn't see Angela with anyone except wait a minute, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.120 maybe you can't see either of them with anyone, except 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.719 maybe it was one of these, like two things that 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.839 have something in common. They would repel a lot of things, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:29.920 but maybe not each other. So I think that there 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:34.080 was some fascination in terms of how un Jim and 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:38.880 Pam it was and how it could be played for 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.400 even more comedy, you know, just the comedy romance was 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.800 the exciting part of that for us. Of course, I 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.359 like the layers and levels, so would want a tiny 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.640 little bit of pathos in that, or just to see 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.680 the tiniest little undercurrent, not immediately, but of the two 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.240 of them going through something that they want, but the 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.680 comedy of them was I think the impetus for for 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.560 that and seeing wanting to see Dwight in a romance 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.919 and see her in a romance like that, just like 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.119 you don't want to look at exactly. Um, going back, 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:16.480 do you recall could you imagine that their wedding would 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:22.320 end up ending the show? I don't think I could 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.440 have known that. No, I mean I was hopeful for it, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.719 but um, but I think what was cool about that 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.480 show and felt brave. I think there was a bravery 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.880 about Greg that is like, let's just go for it. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.960 Let's just go for it and we'll see right. And 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.240 and in general, people would ask like, how much did 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.440 you know about the end of the season from where 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:41.960 you started at the beginning, and we would just carve 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.560 out thirteen because something could come up in that thirteen 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.920 that was so unexpected and delightful that we want to 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.280 follow that more, or something could not work for some 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.880 reason you don't know necessarily. I mean, I think there 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.440 was a lot of faith in Dwight and Angela, but 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.279 we always left ourselves open to how something could pop 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.440 or not pop. Or you know, but yeah, I don't 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.320 know that I would have thought ending the whole series 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.640 like I would have thought it was like, you know, 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.080 it's still I don't even think I would have known 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.080 we were going that many years. I mean, it's just 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:16.040 like I was so excited. I certainly hoped so, But um, 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.040 why do you think the fans responded so much to 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:25.600 Jim and Pam? God, I think they're so gifted that 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.360 I feel like it was the right storyline with the 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.160 right two actors. There was like a chemistry and a 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.720 dynamic between the two of them. One of my favorite 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.640 things I got to do with them was the Jinx 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.560 episode where they didn't speak. I couldn't believe the moments 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.000 I was getting where you know, there's a moment where Pam, 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.440 you know, says, Oh, what are you going to tell 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.400 me something? Oh, you can't tell me something? And he 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.880 wanted to say that he liked her, right, but he's 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.480 now has to be silent. But she says, what is 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.120 there something you want to tell me that you can't 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.160 And he looks just like his stomach drops and he 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.520 turns white, and he looks down and then you see 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.000 her see that he did that and know what that means. 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.960 They were so incredibly gifted, as like they could be 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.520 silent film stars. I really feel like the dynamic between 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.800 the two of them, But I also think it was 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.080 Greg's thing. And I keep kind of saying this kind 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.000 of thing in different ways of like the beauty, the 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.880 pop of beauty and the gray, like having an episode 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.040 that's not about them or is about you know, you 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.840 guys are Dwight or Michael, and then having this little 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.440 pop of Jim and Pam not overdoing it when it 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.400 felt like it was doing stuff when it wasn't even 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.240 doing stuff. Just seeing that Jim and Pam were in 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.360 the background of a scene where you're like, they like 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.960 each other but they're not getting together was this thing 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.160 that I feel like fans were rooting force. You could 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.040 have go to this anybody in this ensemble and give 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:47.520 them a fantastic storyline and still feel the yearning between 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.080 the two of the you know what I mean, it's 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:54.119 like and it will because it wasn't accelerated so quickly. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.920 The best things were things we had to reach for, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.120 and the fact that they weren't front and center, the 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.160 fact that the pressure wasn't on them made us want to. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.480 I don't know, just made us enjoy it. Yeah, So 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.640 when Holly is brought in, do you remember any conversation 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.720 about where Michael ends his journey on the show being 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.880 with her or was this just a limited thing. I 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:23.240 can't quite remember what we've said about like ending the show. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.440 I just remember all the discussions about Jan and whether 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.800 or not to evolve him and Holly. The decision of 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.680 Holly came out of the decision to evolve Michael's character 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.679 passed Jan and to a point where he was finding 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.319 a peer. So we wanted somebody who was a peer relationship. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.480 And it didn't necessarily I mean, in my mind and 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.600 have to be that it would be her and her forever, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.240 but that she would be the first person that you know, 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.079 was really appear for him and that he evolved. Michael 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.840 would have picked. So if we wrote the character right 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.720 and if it worked out, if she left him or 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.000 if he left her, that he to be devastated, that 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.080 it would be a real peer relationship, and then the 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.960 consequences of a real pure relationship. The fact that she 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.560 was so fantastic and then we got to keep her 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.200 around and keep using her is in our biggest dreams. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.960 She would be she would be Michael's person. I remember 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.000 when we wrote the first episode that she was in 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.600 Paul and I and Paul had the first half and 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.680 I had the second half and Paul all that Yoda 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.760 stuff was just pure Paul, just genius. I read it 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.720 and I was like, Holy sh it, this is fantastic 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.960 because she's Michael, but she's different enough, and it was 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.760 sort of like, how do we get somebody that is 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.520 appear for him, that adores him. Um, that is goofy 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.280 but also like him. You just want you love her, 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.640 you feel her, you she's so sweet and you just 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.839 you know, you're excited for her and um, so the 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.439 dynamic between the two of them, I thought was phenomenal. 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.280 So so as soon as we saw that, it was 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:58.440 an instant yes, this is this is gonna work because 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.120 you can think about it and you can write that 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:01.840 he's going to have somebody that's kind of a little 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:03.560 bit more involved. But I think as soon as we 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.520 saw that, we just fell in love with them right 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.439 right in your head at first, and you're like, is 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.120 this going to work? Like what if we evolved him 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.520 past Jan and we write this character of Holly, you 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.400 know this is before nose any and everything, and then 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.520 what if it's just boring and it's not funny and 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.280 it doesn't work. So there was stakes on this of like, oh, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.760 like how do we do this? And um, thank god 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:33.320 Paul wrote those Yoda scenes like you yeah, thank god. Um. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.680 Rain and I got into a conversation where I, well, 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.720 what I said to him was that I consider Dwight 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:49.120 and Michael to be one of the greatest comedy duos 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.160 of all times. Where do you feel like they fit 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.280 in in terms of sort of the legacy of comedy duos? Oh, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.560 I agree completely. I think they were just one of 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.800 the best. Are up there with the right. I think 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:06.080 their abilities individually and then bouncing off of each other. 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.280 They were so specific in Dwight's wanting to be more 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.040 than he is in Michael's eye, I mean, I'm thinking 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.559 of drug testing. When Michael asked for Dwight's here in 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.000 it's like the ultimate ask is like going against his 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.960 ethics and responsibilities as a sheriff. But then this is 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.280 Michael asking him, and then they're both just so crazy gifted. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.000 I mean, there were times where I just had to 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.199 leave the room, like I couldn't. I was gonna laugh 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:32.560 and I was going to ruin a take, so I 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.160 had to. I had to get out of there, Like 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.040 you were maybe the laughiest writer. No, I was so bad. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.839 It was so bad. Yeah, you funny? How am I? 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.000 Like you put any human being in a situation with 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.640 you guys in that area in a bullpen, and like 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:48.520 what are you supposed to do? Like how do you 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.440 not laugh? Like I was biting my cheek at times, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.480 Like I would go home and like I'd have a 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.520 little like welts and stuff I had. I had a trick? 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.600 Was your trick to help me this? Then? No? I had, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.680 I had a trick at times. I mean it was 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.040 just mostly. And it's funny because where I really remember 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.920 you laughing, as in the Talking Heads again, where your 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.920 well in that same room in the conference room. That 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.400 was where it was the most difficult, because somehow you 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.800 felt trapped. You couldn't turn around, you couldn't turn to 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.920 the side, like you couldn't find a poll to hide behind, 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.080 like there was sort of nothing to be done. So 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.120 I said, your index finger and my thumb, I would 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.280 take that and I would bury my fingernail into the 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.600 side of my thumb, and it was just trying to 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.960 just think about that small amount of pain that was 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:45.360 there and not Steve being prison Mike or whatever it 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.480 was Ine just not doing that. There was one moment 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.360 with Rain where Greg and I were there. I don't 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:51.840 remember who was writing and directing. I think he was 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.480 directing and I was the writer, and we were sitting 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.480 there across from Greg, and I think Matt Soone is 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.320 there and Dwight is talking and he's doing a talking head. 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.000 I cannot remember the topic. But Greg leaps, he leaps. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.400 He can't be in the room, so he leaves, and 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.520 he's like outside of the stage even and then I 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.680 move and sit in his chair so you can have eyeline, 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.920 and then I leave. I can't do it. I leave, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.040 And so basically Rain is sitting there and being like, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.559 is that okay? Did anyone see that? Is it? Okay? 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.720 Can move on, like nobody's there. But it happened with you. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.480 I remember happening with you several times. And what happened 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.800 with you is that just you could see your brain work, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.720 you can see yourself thinking, and there were just moments 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.000 where I knew what was coming up, or I knew 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.360 what was going to happen, and it's just this delightful 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.920 journey of you getting to what you were going to say. 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.720 And I was like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna lose 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.440 my ship, and so I would bite my cheek but 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.200 half the time and let's just lose it. It was 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:50.960 like an exposure psychology for my laughing. Yes, Gregg talked 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.720 about the cast too, so I'm not just Michael and Dwight, 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.600 but you know, the accountant's corner, but Dwight and Jim 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.600 as well, and it really everybody fit together like a puzzle. Yeah. God, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.200 it was such a gift. I mean to come in. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.400 I came in after the casting process obviously, and I 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.840 was just so impressed with all of you guys. It 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.680 was phenomenal, just like so strong, such good comic actors, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.080 but also so specific in terms of your characters. It 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.520 felt like you guys were living in those characters you were. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.360 You were just so true to them so that you 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.840 could be delighted when you know, Angela would come over 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.120 and ask you to do something. It was just you 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.600 were amused already because you just knew that. Like, you 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.520 guys were so dialed in and you were just going 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.520 to knock it out of the park. What do you 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:43.080 think makes Michael a great leading man? I think that 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.880 he cares so much about the people that he works with. 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.160 It's his family. He doesn't have a family outside of that, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.440 so it's very important that things go well and he's 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.200 rooting for them. But at the same time, he is 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.680 so uh different in the way of approaches everything. I 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.120 think the contrast between caring so much and liking the 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.120 people that he works with and loving them and wanting 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.800 them to do well, and yet not having the ability 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.400 that he should have as a manager at all, like 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:19.640 that tension is fascinating to me. I think you asked 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.840 about Michael, but I think Steve is such a genius. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.000 You know, we could get away with more because he 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.400 was so gifted. We could push because he could he 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.680 could have that undercurrent of humanity and where it's coming 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.000 from underneath the broadest thing. I mean, certainly there were lines, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.600 but we could push that so far and still have 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.400 it read true. And I remember, you know, seeing first 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.880 season of The Office, seeing four year old virgin and 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.480 then I was just like, Oh, there's nothing this man 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.320 can't do. I mean, he would do do takes completely differently, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.720 give you all these different sides of things and sides 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.600 of him. I just felt for him, felt for him 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.480 enormously because he could do the sillier joke ere thing, 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.239 but there always was the truth and the reality that 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.720 was grounding it. I always felt where he was coming from. 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.720 I always felt like he wanted to connect or didn't 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.679 want to disappoint or you know, like I don't know. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:23.240 He's just extraordinary. So it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous because you 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.439 can have you laugh and then in a in another 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.440 moment you can just cry, and he can just turn there. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.400 There was a moment and I don't remember, I think 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.520 I was I wrote it and I wasn't directing, but 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.840 I was on set and he was doing a scene 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.880 with Holly and they were having this kind of intimate 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.480 scene and then they started laughing about something and I 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.160 started laughing, and he Steve turned to me. I think 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.560 this is on the blooper reel. Actually he turned to 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.560 me and I was like, oh my god, I'm sorry. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.119 He's like, we're acting here, Like he just was laughing, 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.840 but he was laughing. They were laughing so real, which 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.840 is of course what acting is. But like I was like, oh, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.120 they broke because it's just just just feels too real. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.280 And so there were just moments with him where I like, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.159 I couldn't I just couldn't tell, you know, because it 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.520 was just so true. Yeah. I haven't asked anybody this, 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.120 but it just occurring to me. Do you do you 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:20.160 think that there was because of Steve's ability to improvise? 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.080 Did you feel like the words that the writers were 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.560 writing were less precious on this show than anywhere else 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.919 or did that game not change I personally, I feel 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:38.680 like they weren't so precious. I think, especially with him. 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.680 Everybody was so talented on the show, but Steve had 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.840 an ability to understand so much the subtext of all 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.399 the text that I felt like changing things up or 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.280 adding something always. I mean, I think of Oscar kissing 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.000 Oscar and Gay witch Hunt. It was like the best moment, 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.680 one of the best moments of the whole show, and 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.439 it's just you knew it was on story, it was 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.280 on theme, and it was funnier than what was scripted. 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.159 So I felt like he had great respect for the text, 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:12.879 but he had this ridiculous ability to understand everything in 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:17.439 such depth that if he was going to change things up. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:22.160 It was always going to honor the intention. Yeah, I've 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:32.560 been asking people who was the greater loss, Michael or Steve. Oh, Steve. 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.520 I mean I wasn't there, but I just feel like 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.600 everybody saw what genius he was with the Michael Scott character, 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.879 but getting to see him outside of that and how 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.760 you know, good he was with everybody else. I mean 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.600 we'd have like I remember, we had an actor come 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.560 into was very young and very new, and Steve just 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:57.520 working with his performance and dialing in different directions so 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.800 that he could help this person get up to that level, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.760 you know, And there were so many kind hearted things 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.080 he did that Like, you know, Michael Scott was brilliant, 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.560 but to know that that's who he's playing with any 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.560 steps out of that role and just as a human 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.800 was just such a good man. I have to say, Steve, 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.560 it's a hard time for hiring, so you need a 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:35.919 hiring partner built for hard times. That's Indeed. 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Did you know that on the day Doctor 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.920 King was shot, the all black security detail normally assigned 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.800 to him was called off. They're the ones who would 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.880 not allow him to stay at any hotel with balconies. 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:28.280 That security union was reassigned. I was a man there, 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:36.600 and did you know that on the day doctor King 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.919 was shot, two black firemen stationed across the street and 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.360 one black police detective who was surveiling King, we're all 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:47.040 taken off the job. What was the emergency that caused 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:53.160 usually moved another fires? Did you ever asked what this 0:23:53.200 --> 0:24:01.040 was all about? This is the MLK Apes. The first 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.560 episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart radio app, 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:21.159