Speaker 1: I'm Emilia on this podcast, I'm taking you on a search,
Speaker 1: a search for love, hard working Latina, but there were
Speaker 1: other reasons I felt like I couldn't always beat myself.
Speaker 1: My mom's in prison. This Crumbs my love story. It's
Speaker 1: a show about the things we set up for and
Speaker 1: the bits of ourselves that make us who we are.
Speaker 1: Listen to Crumbs on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out the new
Speaker 1: podcast I Am Kobe. Do you want to understand how
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant achieved his unequal determination? How did he come
Speaker 1: to his incredible passion to win? In I Am Kobe,
Speaker 1: we reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when
Speaker 1: he was a teenager, just as he was starting to
Speaker 1: glimpse his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon.
Speaker 1: We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches,
Speaker 1: his friends, and the figures who knew him in his youth.
Speaker 1: All epis sods a route now so you can binge
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, and wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. M Hey, Elizabeth you're the co host of
Speaker 1: that new podcast, Ridiculous Crime. Why yes, I am. You
Speaker 1: know what's ridiculous? Yeah, carpeting in kitchens and bathrooms? Oh wow,
Speaker 1: you are good. But you know what's also ridiculous? A
Speaker 1: sixteen year old who breaks into a car dealership and
Speaker 1: steals guy theories Lamborghini, what yes to impress a girl.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you all about it on Ridiculous Crime, our
Speaker 1: podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heist and cons. It's
Speaker 1: always murder free and ridiculous. Listen to Ridiculous Crime on
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm Jen Slada and I was a
Speaker 1: writer on the Office. Oh she's back, everybody. Hello there,
Speaker 1: Welcome to another fan freaking tastic installment of the Office
Speaker 1: Deep Dive. As always, I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner, and
Speaker 1: yeah she is back. Baby. The lafy ist writer from
Speaker 1: our set, probably the lafiest person on this podcast, let's
Speaker 1: be honest, the person who actually got welts in her
Speaker 1: cheeks from trying to hold it in. That's what she said. Uh,
Speaker 1: Jen Salata. If you haven't listened to part one of
Speaker 1: our conversation. Do it? Okay, just go check that out first,
Speaker 1: because today Jen and I circle back to talk about
Speaker 1: what it was really like to be a writer on
Speaker 1: the Office, how she started to blur reality from TV,
Speaker 1: and how she helped write some of the most classic
Speaker 1: love stories in modern history, from Michael and Holly The
Speaker 1: Match Made in Heaven, to Dwight and Angela The Match
Speaker 1: Made in No I don't know anyways, I love Jen.
Speaker 1: Jen is was always an absolute delight to have on set.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, she has some stories. And
Speaker 1: speaking of stories, seamless transition right there, we have a
Speaker 1: place for you to see a bunch of stories, the
Speaker 1: greatest stories ever. Right now you can pre order on Amazon.
Speaker 1: It's called Welcome to dunder Mifflin, The Ultimate Oral History
Speaker 1: of the Office. It comes out next week if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this live ish. All right, So if you
Speaker 1: love this podcast, if you love this show, I will
Speaker 1: garn to you, well guarantee, I can garrolt you're gonna
Speaker 1: love this book too. And well the other thing I
Speaker 1: can guaranty, of course, is that you're going to love
Speaker 1: the wonderful, the brilliant, the magnificent friend of mine that
Speaker 1: is coming on right now, Jen Silata Bubble and Squeak.
Speaker 1: I love Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker Cookie
Speaker 1: every moment, lift over from the nut before. Where did
Speaker 1: the idea behind getting Dwight and Angela together come from?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I would imagine it was something from
Speaker 1: the O G Gang, the Greg or Mike or I
Speaker 1: or Paul. I'm not sure. I just remember the idea
Speaker 1: that the two of them were so strong and so specific,
Speaker 1: and I think I couldn't see dwighte with anyone, and
Speaker 1: it couldn't see Angela with anyone except wait a minute,
Speaker 1: maybe you can't see either of them with anyone, except
Speaker 1: maybe it was one of these, like two things that
Speaker 1: have something in common. They would repel a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but maybe not each other. So I think that there
Speaker 1: was some fascination in terms of how un Jim and
Speaker 1: Pam it was and how it could be played for
Speaker 1: even more comedy, you know, just the comedy romance was
Speaker 1: the exciting part of that for us. Of course, I
Speaker 1: like the layers and levels, so would want a tiny
Speaker 1: little bit of pathos in that, or just to see
Speaker 1: the tiniest little undercurrent, not immediately, but of the two
Speaker 1: of them going through something that they want, but the
Speaker 1: comedy of them was I think the impetus for for
Speaker 1: that and seeing wanting to see Dwight in a romance
Speaker 1: and see her in a romance like that, just like
Speaker 1: you don't want to look at exactly. Um, going back,
Speaker 1: do you recall could you imagine that their wedding would
Speaker 1: end up ending the show? I don't think I could
Speaker 1: have known that. No, I mean I was hopeful for it,
Speaker 1: but um, but I think what was cool about that
Speaker 1: show and felt brave. I think there was a bravery
Speaker 1: about Greg that is like, let's just go for it.
Speaker 1: Let's just go for it and we'll see right. And
Speaker 1: and in general, people would ask like, how much did
Speaker 1: you know about the end of the season from where
Speaker 1: you started at the beginning, and we would just carve
Speaker 1: out thirteen because something could come up in that thirteen
Speaker 1: that was so unexpected and delightful that we want to
Speaker 1: follow that more, or something could not work for some
Speaker 1: reason you don't know necessarily. I mean, I think there
Speaker 1: was a lot of faith in Dwight and Angela, but
Speaker 1: we always left ourselves open to how something could pop
Speaker 1: or not pop. Or you know, but yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know that I would have thought ending the whole series
Speaker 1: like I would have thought it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's still I don't even think I would have known
Speaker 1: we were going that many years. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: like I was so excited. I certainly hoped so, But um,
Speaker 1: why do you think the fans responded so much to
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam? God, I think they're so gifted that
Speaker 1: I feel like it was the right storyline with the
Speaker 1: right two actors. There was like a chemistry and a
Speaker 1: dynamic between the two of them. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: things I got to do with them was the Jinx
Speaker 1: episode where they didn't speak. I couldn't believe the moments
Speaker 1: I was getting where you know, there's a moment where Pam,
Speaker 1: you know, says, Oh, what are you going to tell
Speaker 1: me something? Oh, you can't tell me something? And he
Speaker 1: wanted to say that he liked her, right, but he's
Speaker 1: now has to be silent. But she says, what is
Speaker 1: there something you want to tell me that you can't
Speaker 1: And he looks just like his stomach drops and he
Speaker 1: turns white, and he looks down and then you see
Speaker 1: her see that he did that and know what that means.
Speaker 1: They were so incredibly gifted, as like they could be
Speaker 1: silent film stars. I really feel like the dynamic between
Speaker 1: the two of them, But I also think it was
Speaker 1: Greg's thing. And I keep kind of saying this kind
Speaker 1: of thing in different ways of like the beauty, the
Speaker 1: pop of beauty and the gray, like having an episode
Speaker 1: that's not about them or is about you know, you
Speaker 1: guys are Dwight or Michael, and then having this little
Speaker 1: pop of Jim and Pam not overdoing it when it
Speaker 1: felt like it was doing stuff when it wasn't even
Speaker 1: doing stuff. Just seeing that Jim and Pam were in
Speaker 1: the background of a scene where you're like, they like
Speaker 1: each other but they're not getting together was this thing
Speaker 1: that I feel like fans were rooting force. You could
Speaker 1: have go to this anybody in this ensemble and give
Speaker 1: them a fantastic storyline and still feel the yearning between
Speaker 1: the two of the you know what I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like and it will because it wasn't accelerated so quickly.
Speaker 1: The best things were things we had to reach for,
Speaker 1: and the fact that they weren't front and center, the
Speaker 1: fact that the pressure wasn't on them made us want to.
Speaker 1: I don't know, just made us enjoy it. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: when Holly is brought in, do you remember any conversation
Speaker 1: about where Michael ends his journey on the show being
Speaker 1: with her or was this just a limited thing. I
Speaker 1: can't quite remember what we've said about like ending the show.
Speaker 1: I just remember all the discussions about Jan and whether
Speaker 1: or not to evolve him and Holly. The decision of
Speaker 1: Holly came out of the decision to evolve Michael's character
Speaker 1: passed Jan and to a point where he was finding
Speaker 1: a peer. So we wanted somebody who was a peer relationship.
Speaker 1: And it didn't necessarily I mean, in my mind and
Speaker 1: have to be that it would be her and her forever,
Speaker 1: but that she would be the first person that you know,
Speaker 1: was really appear for him and that he evolved. Michael
Speaker 1: would have picked. So if we wrote the character right
Speaker 1: and if it worked out, if she left him or
Speaker 1: if he left her, that he to be devastated, that
Speaker 1: it would be a real peer relationship, and then the
Speaker 1: consequences of a real pure relationship. The fact that she
Speaker 1: was so fantastic and then we got to keep her
Speaker 1: around and keep using her is in our biggest dreams.
Speaker 1: She would be she would be Michael's person. I remember
Speaker 1: when we wrote the first episode that she was in
Speaker 1: Paul and I and Paul had the first half and
Speaker 1: I had the second half and Paul all that Yoda
Speaker 1: stuff was just pure Paul, just genius. I read it
Speaker 1: and I was like, Holy sh it, this is fantastic
Speaker 1: because she's Michael, but she's different enough, and it was
Speaker 1: sort of like, how do we get somebody that is
Speaker 1: appear for him, that adores him. Um, that is goofy
Speaker 1: but also like him. You just want you love her,
Speaker 1: you feel her, you she's so sweet and you just
Speaker 1: you know, you're excited for her and um, so the
Speaker 1: dynamic between the two of them, I thought was phenomenal.
Speaker 1: So so as soon as we saw that, it was
Speaker 1: an instant yes, this is this is gonna work because
Speaker 1: you can think about it and you can write that
Speaker 1: he's going to have somebody that's kind of a little
Speaker 1: bit more involved. But I think as soon as we
Speaker 1: saw that, we just fell in love with them right
Speaker 1: right in your head at first, and you're like, is
Speaker 1: this going to work? Like what if we evolved him
Speaker 1: past Jan and we write this character of Holly, you
Speaker 1: know this is before nose any and everything, and then
Speaker 1: what if it's just boring and it's not funny and
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. So there was stakes on this of like, oh,
Speaker 1: like how do we do this? And um, thank god
Speaker 1: Paul wrote those Yoda scenes like you yeah, thank god. Um.
Speaker 1: Rain and I got into a conversation where I, well,
Speaker 1: what I said to him was that I consider Dwight
Speaker 1: and Michael to be one of the greatest comedy duos
Speaker 1: of all times. Where do you feel like they fit
Speaker 1: in in terms of sort of the legacy of comedy duos? Oh,
Speaker 1: I agree completely. I think they were just one of
Speaker 1: the best. Are up there with the right. I think
Speaker 1: their abilities individually and then bouncing off of each other.
Speaker 1: They were so specific in Dwight's wanting to be more
Speaker 1: than he is in Michael's eye, I mean, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of drug testing. When Michael asked for Dwight's here in
Speaker 1: it's like the ultimate ask is like going against his
Speaker 1: ethics and responsibilities as a sheriff. But then this is
Speaker 1: Michael asking him, and then they're both just so crazy gifted.
Speaker 1: I mean, there were times where I just had to
Speaker 1: leave the room, like I couldn't. I was gonna laugh
Speaker 1: and I was going to ruin a take, so I
Speaker 1: had to. I had to get out of there, Like
Speaker 1: you were maybe the laughiest writer. No, I was so bad.
Speaker 1: It was so bad. Yeah, you funny? How am I?
Speaker 1: Like you put any human being in a situation with
Speaker 1: you guys in that area in a bullpen, and like
Speaker 1: what are you supposed to do? Like how do you
Speaker 1: not laugh? Like I was biting my cheek at times,
Speaker 1: Like I would go home and like I'd have a
Speaker 1: little like welts and stuff I had. I had a trick?
Speaker 1: Was your trick to help me this? Then? No? I had,
Speaker 1: I had a trick at times. I mean it was
Speaker 1: just mostly. And it's funny because where I really remember
Speaker 1: you laughing, as in the Talking Heads again, where your
Speaker 1: well in that same room in the conference room. That
Speaker 1: was where it was the most difficult, because somehow you
Speaker 1: felt trapped. You couldn't turn around, you couldn't turn to
Speaker 1: the side, like you couldn't find a poll to hide behind,
Speaker 1: like there was sort of nothing to be done. So
Speaker 1: I said, your index finger and my thumb, I would
Speaker 1: take that and I would bury my fingernail into the
Speaker 1: side of my thumb, and it was just trying to
Speaker 1: just think about that small amount of pain that was
Speaker 1: there and not Steve being prison Mike or whatever it
Speaker 1: was Ine just not doing that. There was one moment
Speaker 1: with Rain where Greg and I were there. I don't
Speaker 1: remember who was writing and directing. I think he was
Speaker 1: directing and I was the writer, and we were sitting
Speaker 1: there across from Greg, and I think Matt Soone is
Speaker 1: there and Dwight is talking and he's doing a talking head.
Speaker 1: I cannot remember the topic. But Greg leaps, he leaps.
Speaker 1: He can't be in the room, so he leaves, and
Speaker 1: he's like outside of the stage even and then I
Speaker 1: move and sit in his chair so you can have eyeline,
Speaker 1: and then I leave. I can't do it. I leave,
Speaker 1: And so basically Rain is sitting there and being like,
Speaker 1: is that okay? Did anyone see that? Is it? Okay?
Speaker 1: Can move on, like nobody's there. But it happened with you.
Speaker 1: I remember happening with you several times. And what happened
Speaker 1: with you is that just you could see your brain work,
Speaker 1: you can see yourself thinking, and there were just moments
Speaker 1: where I knew what was coming up, or I knew
Speaker 1: what was going to happen, and it's just this delightful
Speaker 1: journey of you getting to what you were going to say.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna lose
Speaker 1: my ship, and so I would bite my cheek but
Speaker 1: half the time and let's just lose it. It was
Speaker 1: like an exposure psychology for my laughing. Yes, Gregg talked
Speaker 1: about the cast too, so I'm not just Michael and Dwight,
Speaker 1: but you know, the accountant's corner, but Dwight and Jim
Speaker 1: as well, and it really everybody fit together like a puzzle. Yeah. God,
Speaker 1: it was such a gift. I mean to come in.
Speaker 1: I came in after the casting process obviously, and I
Speaker 1: was just so impressed with all of you guys. It
Speaker 1: was phenomenal, just like so strong, such good comic actors,
Speaker 1: but also so specific in terms of your characters. It
Speaker 1: felt like you guys were living in those characters you were.
Speaker 1: You were just so true to them so that you
Speaker 1: could be delighted when you know, Angela would come over
Speaker 1: and ask you to do something. It was just you
Speaker 1: were amused already because you just knew that. Like, you
Speaker 1: guys were so dialed in and you were just going
Speaker 1: to knock it out of the park. What do you
Speaker 1: think makes Michael a great leading man? I think that
Speaker 1: he cares so much about the people that he works with.
Speaker 1: It's his family. He doesn't have a family outside of that,
Speaker 1: so it's very important that things go well and he's
Speaker 1: rooting for them. But at the same time, he is
Speaker 1: so uh different in the way of approaches everything. I
Speaker 1: think the contrast between caring so much and liking the
Speaker 1: people that he works with and loving them and wanting
Speaker 1: them to do well, and yet not having the ability
Speaker 1: that he should have as a manager at all, like
Speaker 1: that tension is fascinating to me. I think you asked
Speaker 1: about Michael, but I think Steve is such a genius.
Speaker 1: You know, we could get away with more because he
Speaker 1: was so gifted. We could push because he could he
Speaker 1: could have that undercurrent of humanity and where it's coming
Speaker 1: from underneath the broadest thing. I mean, certainly there were lines,
Speaker 1: but we could push that so far and still have
Speaker 1: it read true. And I remember, you know, seeing first
Speaker 1: season of The Office, seeing four year old virgin and
Speaker 1: then I was just like, Oh, there's nothing this man
Speaker 1: can't do. I mean, he would do do takes completely differently,
Speaker 1: give you all these different sides of things and sides
Speaker 1: of him. I just felt for him, felt for him
Speaker 1: enormously because he could do the sillier joke ere thing,
Speaker 1: but there always was the truth and the reality that
Speaker 1: was grounding it. I always felt where he was coming from.
Speaker 1: I always felt like he wanted to connect or didn't
Speaker 1: want to disappoint or you know, like I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's just extraordinary. So it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous because you
Speaker 1: can have you laugh and then in a in another
Speaker 1: moment you can just cry, and he can just turn there.
Speaker 1: There was a moment and I don't remember, I think
Speaker 1: I was I wrote it and I wasn't directing, but
Speaker 1: I was on set and he was doing a scene
Speaker 1: with Holly and they were having this kind of intimate
Speaker 1: scene and then they started laughing about something and I
Speaker 1: started laughing, and he Steve turned to me. I think
Speaker 1: this is on the blooper reel. Actually he turned to
Speaker 1: me and I was like, oh my god, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: He's like, we're acting here, Like he just was laughing,
Speaker 1: but he was laughing. They were laughing so real, which
Speaker 1: is of course what acting is. But like I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they broke because it's just just just feels too real.
Speaker 1: And so there were just moments with him where I like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't I just couldn't tell, you know, because it
Speaker 1: was just so true. Yeah. I haven't asked anybody this,
Speaker 1: but it just occurring to me. Do you do you
Speaker 1: think that there was because of Steve's ability to improvise?
Speaker 1: Did you feel like the words that the writers were
Speaker 1: writing were less precious on this show than anywhere else
Speaker 1: or did that game not change I personally, I feel
Speaker 1: like they weren't so precious. I think, especially with him.
Speaker 1: Everybody was so talented on the show, but Steve had
Speaker 1: an ability to understand so much the subtext of all
Speaker 1: the text that I felt like changing things up or
Speaker 1: adding something always. I mean, I think of Oscar kissing
Speaker 1: Oscar and Gay witch Hunt. It was like the best moment,
Speaker 1: one of the best moments of the whole show, and
Speaker 1: it's just you knew it was on story, it was
Speaker 1: on theme, and it was funnier than what was scripted.
Speaker 1: So I felt like he had great respect for the text,
Speaker 1: but he had this ridiculous ability to understand everything in
Speaker 1: such depth that if he was going to change things up.
Speaker 1: It was always going to honor the intention. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been asking people who was the greater loss, Michael or Steve. Oh, Steve.
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't there, but I just feel like
Speaker 1: everybody saw what genius he was with the Michael Scott character,
Speaker 1: but getting to see him outside of that and how
Speaker 1: you know, good he was with everybody else. I mean
Speaker 1: we'd have like I remember, we had an actor come
Speaker 1: into was very young and very new, and Steve just
Speaker 1: working with his performance and dialing in different directions so
Speaker 1: that he could help this person get up to that level,
Speaker 1: you know, And there were so many kind hearted things
Speaker 1: he did that Like, you know, Michael Scott was brilliant,
Speaker 1: but to know that that's who he's playing with any
Speaker 1: steps out of that role and just as a human
Speaker 1: was just such a good man. I have to say, Steve,
Speaker 1: it's a hard time for hiring, so you need a
Speaker 1: hiring partner built for hard times. That's Indeed. If you're hiring,
Speaker 1: you need Indeed because Indeed is the hiring partner where
Speaker 1: you can attract, interview, and hire all in one place.
Speaker 1: And indeed is the only job site where you're Guaranteed
Speaker 1: to find quality applications that meet your must have requirements
Speaker 1: or else you don't pay. Instead of spending hours on
Speaker 1: multiple job sites hoping to find candidates with the right skills,
Speaker 1: you need one hiring partner that can help you do
Speaker 1: it all. Indeed partners with you on every step of
Speaker 1: the hiring process. Find great talent through time saving tools
Speaker 1: like indeed, instant match, assessments and virtual interviews. With instant Match,
Speaker 1: as soon as you sponsor a post, you get a
Speaker 1: short list of quality candidates with resumes on Indeed that
Speaker 1: match your job description, and you can invite them to
Speaker 1: apply right away. Plus, you only pay for quality applications
Speaker 1: that meet your must have requirements. Join more than three
Speaker 1: million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast.
Speaker 1: Start hiring right now with a seventy five dollar sponsored
Speaker 1: job credit to upgrade your job post at indeed dot
Speaker 1: com slash office Deep Dive offer valid through March thirty one.
Speaker 1: Go to indeed dot com slash office deep Dive to
Speaker 1: claim your seventy five dollar credit before March one. Indeed
Speaker 1: dot Com slash Office Deep Dive terms and conditions apply.
Speaker 1: Need to hire, you need indeed, anybody who is deemed
Speaker 1: to have power who thinks differently is a threat and
Speaker 1: needs to be eliminated. Big Brother, North Korea's Forgotten Prince,
Speaker 1: is a new true crime podcast that investigates the life
Speaker 1: and mysterious assassination of the man wants destined to be
Speaker 1: North Korea's next dictator, Kim Jong Nam. Join us as
Speaker 1: we interview top experts and investigate the rise and fall
Speaker 1: of the Herma Kingdom's one time air from his early
Speaker 1: promise that he should have been a successor to the
Speaker 1: Deadly Palace, entries a lot of clothing and dabber you know,
Speaker 1: James bogg kind of stuff about Jim to the power
Speaker 1: struggles that ultimately spelled his doom in North Korea. It's business,
Speaker 1: it's not personal. When somebody challenges you, that challenger must
Speaker 1: be eliminated. Listen to Big Brother on the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Coming February. Did you know that on the day Doctor
Speaker 1: King was shot, the all black security detail normally assigned
Speaker 1: to him was called off. They're the ones who would
Speaker 1: not allow him to stay at any hotel with balconies.
Speaker 1: That security union was reassigned. I was a man there,
Speaker 1: and did you know that on the day doctor King
Speaker 1: was shot, two black firemen stationed across the street and
Speaker 1: one black police detective who was surveiling King, we're all
Speaker 1: taken off the job. What was the emergency that caused
Speaker 1: usually moved another fires? Did you ever asked what this
Speaker 1: was all about? This is the MLK Apes. The first
Speaker 1: episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Did you
Speaker 1: ever think of Greg as a teacher? M I feel
Speaker 1: like I learned an enormous amount from Greg. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of the thing my greatest takeaways from being
Speaker 1: with Greg. I had been writing for a while by
Speaker 1: the time I was working with Greg, and so I
Speaker 1: think that even though there were writing things to learn,
Speaker 1: I think I learned a lot of things about leadership
Speaker 1: that I really was kind of focused on or thinking about.
Speaker 1: He was phenomenally good at story and so many things.
Speaker 1: So I learned from just being around him about how
Speaker 1: he approaches and how he attacks things. But I'm just
Speaker 1: going to try to think about the things now. I'm
Speaker 1: my brain sort of thinking about it live. I have
Speaker 1: a little bit of a d D if you haven't
Speaker 1: noticed that. One thing is he had this idea about
Speaker 1: blue skying where he would say, let's think about their
Speaker 1: ideas in this area, and we would think about it,
Speaker 1: and we would just think about throw out ideas, throw
Speaker 1: out ideas. Even when we had great or even excellent ideas,
Speaker 1: He's like, keep going. So the amount of times we
Speaker 1: had something that was great and he would come in
Speaker 1: and challenge and test and want to take it and
Speaker 1: shake it and turn it upside down. Every time we
Speaker 1: did that, we came up with something better. It wasn't lateral,
Speaker 1: it wasn't worse. It wasn't that we should have stayed
Speaker 1: with that first thing. It was better. So the fact
Speaker 1: that he hired people that were so animated and passionate,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't scared of somebody who would constantly challenge him,
Speaker 1: you know, like he wanted to have people who would
Speaker 1: fight him on stuff in the room. He wanted wherever
Speaker 1: the idea came from, that was best. He just wanted
Speaker 1: that idea in there. It did not have to be
Speaker 1: his idea. And I've worked with show runners who are brilliant,
Speaker 1: but it had to be their stamp had to be
Speaker 1: on something. But to his credit, he uh got a
Speaker 1: group of people that all thought differently and that we're
Speaker 1: going to fight in the room about things that matter
Speaker 1: to them. They all gave a ship and they all fought.
Speaker 1: And I've been fortunate enough to work with a bunch
Speaker 1: of different people, and I sort of divided everybody into
Speaker 1: all the showrunners I've worked with into I. Basically I
Speaker 1: told Greg this. I said, they're all control freaks because
Speaker 1: you have to be some level of, you know, really
Speaker 1: caring and being very meticulous about what you put out
Speaker 1: into the world. But I think there are control freaks
Speaker 1: with egos and control freaks without egos. And the difference
Speaker 1: between creating a show with that kind of vibe where
Speaker 1: you have somebody very smart, filtering everything and deciding it,
Speaker 1: but wants to hear everything and wants to be challenged
Speaker 1: and if he doesn't agree with you, I'm gonna come
Speaker 1: back and say it three more times, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like there's I with the no sound of
Speaker 1: the proposal. I I just was beating that drum for
Speaker 1: weeks because it meant that much to me. But um
Speaker 1: steaks and escalation and surprise and all those things he's
Speaker 1: such a master at and some of those, um, either
Speaker 1: I relearned or learned a Greg way of doing things
Speaker 1: that was phenomenal. But I kept thinking about leadership when
Speaker 1: I was working with him. So interesting, So other than
Speaker 1: blue sky. If there's anything else specifically about the work
Speaker 1: in the writer's room or because stores like a beautiful
Speaker 1: mind in there, I don't if anyone's told you that
Speaker 1: note cards everywhere, thousands and thousands of note cards, fragments,
Speaker 1: pieces of cards, pieces of stories, character, um things. You'd
Speaker 1: look at a card and you were like, I have
Speaker 1: no idea what this card means. Like you have to
Speaker 1: try to remember, um, candy bags, you know, like I
Speaker 1: didn't know candy bags before the office, which was we
Speaker 1: would have, you know, a thirty five forty page scripts
Speaker 1: sometimes and eventually it would be twenty minutes or twenty
Speaker 1: one minutes. And then additionally we would have sometimes a
Speaker 1: sixty or eighty page joke bag. So like for every
Speaker 1: talking head of of yours, we'd have ten additional talking
Speaker 1: heads if we had the time and you know, we
Speaker 1: could get to um, we'd have alternate jokes for scenes. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that them trying to think of other Greg
Speaker 1: things that were specific. I could tell a story if
Speaker 1: you want about Greg and I trying to write a
Speaker 1: script together. Um should I wonder if I should say that.
Speaker 1: I think you'd be fine with this. But I had
Speaker 1: to write an episode with Greg at one point. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'd love to write an episode, but like we both
Speaker 1: usually wrote alone, and then we were going to try
Speaker 1: and write together. And my process at the beginning of
Speaker 1: writing is a lot of procrastinating and just like procrastinating
Speaker 1: and then panic and then writing. Um So I remember
Speaker 1: we sat down to write and both of us seemed
Speaker 1: like we were just sort of like it's one of
Speaker 1: those writer things where you just make sure the temperature
Speaker 1: is exactly right, you have all the pencils exactly sharpened.
Speaker 1: Should we order to lunch, maybe we should order launch
Speaker 1: or should we you know, go for a walk, like
Speaker 1: makes more sure. You know, you're just kind of avoiding
Speaker 1: getting to it because it's hard. It's wonderful, but it's hard.
Speaker 1: And um, I think at that moment he he was
Speaker 1: having some sort of I don't remember back thing or
Speaker 1: shoulder thing, and I was having an ear problem, and
Speaker 1: so like we looked up I think on web MD,
Speaker 1: like what was going on with my ear? And like
Speaker 1: I think we He got me to put some like
Speaker 1: olive oil from the kitchen in my ear because I
Speaker 1: was like, I think that this will help. And we're
Speaker 1: sitting there and we're on web m D and we're
Speaker 1: just not starting. We're not starting. We're just diagnosing what's
Speaker 1: wrong with my ear and what's wrong with this back,
Speaker 1: and we're spending a lot of time doing this, and
Speaker 1: eventually we just like he's like, I'm gonna write Act one.
Speaker 1: You go right, Actually like where we can't. We cannot
Speaker 1: sit together and do this because it's like taking the
Speaker 1: individual traits of this and and exponentially magnifying it. But
Speaker 1: we turned it into a Michael and Dwight. Uh they're
Speaker 1: on web m D and Dwight is like, point to
Speaker 1: your body where it hurts, and he doesn't. It's like
Speaker 1: something's wrong with your uterus or your ovaries like anyway,
Speaker 1: So very often what was happening in our lives became
Speaker 1: in office episode. So that was me actually writing a
Speaker 1: script with the genius Gregg. But seeing that writers are
Speaker 1: all the same when they're we can avoid for a
Speaker 1: little bit starting hard stuff that's amazing. That sounds like
Speaker 1: so both for you too. UM. So when Greg left
Speaker 1: season five, you and Paul are showrunners, Yes, So what
Speaker 1: how did he go about asking you? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I can't. UM. I kind of want to tell you
Speaker 1: another story, but it's going to be circular again, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, Okay, I want to tell you another story
Speaker 1: and then we'll go back and then you can just
Speaker 1: plice place it in. UM. I told Greg this, and
Speaker 1: I think he he doesn't remember this or he denies this,
Speaker 1: But early on Greg asked Mike and Paul and I
Speaker 1: to sort of be UM, I'm terrible at military things, lieutenants.
Speaker 1: Is that like a person like underneath the case he's
Speaker 1: the captain, like okay, so we were going to kind
Speaker 1: of be underneath him and take over some responsibilities, you know.
Speaker 1: So he said we were going to be meeting like
Speaker 1: once a week, and we were just talking about certain
Speaker 1: things and like maybe divide up like you know. Mike
Speaker 1: was going to be responsible for some things and Paul
Speaker 1: and I and then ultimately we report back to Greg.
Speaker 1: Greg would be in charge, but everything he was just
Speaker 1: get some help. And I remember he gave a memo, UM,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like, Okay, we're gonna meet
Speaker 1: every Monday in UM in this room here, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be from you know, nine o'clock to ten o'clock.
Speaker 1: And I think there was like one rule, and the
Speaker 1: rule was something like say things if you can, and
Speaker 1: like the quickest amount of time that you can say that.
Speaker 1: There was something like that. It was very polite, and
Speaker 1: it was very It was like, okay, it was basically
Speaker 1: like kind of try to stay on track. And then
Speaker 1: I'm like thinking about it, and I'm like, Mike is
Speaker 1: very sustainct. He likes to talk, but he's very sustanct
Speaker 1: and he says everything. And Paul doesn't talk that much.
Speaker 1: And I was like, this memo was telling me not
Speaker 1: to talk so much. Now, this is not Greg trying
Speaker 1: to quiet you know, a writer, because Greg like always
Speaker 1: but I talked a lot. I really was like, this
Speaker 1: is like him saying, you know, try to try to
Speaker 1: be careful and how you pick what you're saying and like,
Speaker 1: hey can get down to the things that are important.
Speaker 1: So the takeaway needs to not be Greg was trying
Speaker 1: to even more that I talked a whole hell of
Speaker 1: a lot. So it's like you wrote that memo for me.
Speaker 1: There's no we knew what room to be and we
Speaker 1: knew what time it was. This was a memo to say,
Speaker 1: stopped talking all the time. He's like, I don't think
Speaker 1: I did that anyway. So, so Paul and I had
Speaker 1: some responsibilities and we had been for some things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you and Mike and Paul had had some responsibilities and
Speaker 1: responsibility leading into this, so we would start to run rooms.
Speaker 1: So I just think that. Um, I don't remember actually
Speaker 1: him like the day that he asked us, but I
Speaker 1: remember being very excited, you know, like I was nervous.
Speaker 1: Of course, I wanted to do a good job, and
Speaker 1: we felt an enormous amount of responsibility. But I also
Speaker 1: felt like he wasn't like, you know, get on a
Speaker 1: boat and leave me. Wouldn't be able to contact him
Speaker 1: and he would, you know, help us to navigate this
Speaker 1: and we'd be able to ask questions. Um, do you
Speaker 1: remember anything about you know, you're running the show now
Speaker 1: and NBC. I understand there was some pressure about bringing
Speaker 1: in some A list star for the super Bowl episode.
Speaker 1: Do you remember anything about that? Yeah? I remember. I
Speaker 1: always feel like you just don't want to be taken
Speaker 1: out of the moment of the show, and I sort
Speaker 1: of remember, for the first time, I feel like NBC
Speaker 1: was so good and they gave such good notes, and
Speaker 1: I felt like they just really trusted Greg and they
Speaker 1: trusted the writers and the actors certainly, but I do
Speaker 1: feel like the Super Bowl put pressure on the powers
Speaker 1: that be so that it was a little bit of
Speaker 1: I remember hearing this, and it could be incorrect, but
Speaker 1: this is how I remember hearing that. The goal was
Speaker 1: to write an Office episode that all of the fans
Speaker 1: who already fans of The Office would know and love
Speaker 1: because it's their favorite show, and we're going to just
Speaker 1: write a typical Office episode. However, at the same time,
Speaker 1: an Office episode that's not like an Office episode, so
Speaker 1: that we can get new fans in. Like so, I
Speaker 1: was like, these two things contradict each other. There's no
Speaker 1: way to do this, and I think that became one
Speaker 1: of our hardest stories to break, because we came up
Speaker 1: with other stories and ended up throwing out more stories
Speaker 1: on the way to that final story than any other episode,
Speaker 1: because we were trying to appease to our fans and
Speaker 1: also maybe broaden it a little bit more to get
Speaker 1: new fans who needed to have something some bells and
Speaker 1: whistles of some other kind to then get them in
Speaker 1: and then we'll still be the same office. But so
Speaker 1: I think the idea to put the celebrities in a
Speaker 1: movie was a better idea of how to handle that.
Speaker 1: But I think I remember pushing back on the celebrity
Speaker 1: thing because I never like when something bigger comes into
Speaker 1: our world. Are you proud of your your year show running?
Speaker 1: I am? I am. I am proud of it. I
Speaker 1: feel like we did a good job. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I could be the one to judge it, but um,
Speaker 1: but I'm particularly proud in the Michael Scott Paper Company
Speaker 1: because it was kind of towards the end of the
Speaker 1: year and we were tired, you know, and it was
Speaker 1: a fun thing to do, and it was a little
Speaker 1: bit of a risk and not a huge risk because
Speaker 1: we had, you know, three of our characters going off,
Speaker 1: but you know, it was hard but very very rewarding,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, it was one of my
Speaker 1: favorite years. So you go from being a writer to
Speaker 1: being a lieutenant to being a co showrunner and then
Speaker 1: you started directing. How was that for you to be
Speaker 1: on set and directing Crime Made was the first episode.
Speaker 1: CDE was the first one. And this is um I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but on Beach Games,
Speaker 1: which was just a crazy episode, like a forty two
Speaker 1: page script, it was an now maybe longer actually two
Speaker 1: quick tell you two quick things. One was that there
Speaker 1: was just so much to do and we didn't have
Speaker 1: the time. I think it was one of Ed Helms's
Speaker 1: first episodes. Two I can't remember when he joined the cast,
Speaker 1: and not overly that long after he joined Scranton. First.
Speaker 1: I remember we were going to put him in a
Speaker 1: sumo suit and we were going to pull him out
Speaker 1: in the middle of the lake, and I remember I
Speaker 1: had to go. There was so much chaos that he
Speaker 1: was like in hair and makeup or something. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what it was. But he missed the safety meaning
Speaker 1: and he like he mad, you know, maybe he was briefed.
Speaker 1: I'll say, you know he was briefed on it. But
Speaker 1: I remember very specifically hearing that there were water snakes
Speaker 1: and where not to tell him, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I did. I was like, I was like, I think
Speaker 1: they're near the edges. I didn't want that to be
Speaker 1: in his head. I didn't want to be scared on
Speaker 1: top of it. So I'm sorry if I know that.
Speaker 1: Somebody didn't supposedly briefed him, but I didn't hear them
Speaker 1: say the water snakes part. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do here, because if I I would
Speaker 1: not want to know that. But I think but that
Speaker 1: was a moment from beach James. But it was I
Speaker 1: think it was because of the chaos that there was
Speaker 1: a lot happening at once, and so I ended up
Speaker 1: at one point Kent called and we we had to stop.
Speaker 1: We had to stop. It was like we went over
Speaker 1: and then we went over again, and we went over again,
Speaker 1: and we have like forty five seconds to get this
Speaker 1: scene right. And he calls me and he's like he's upset.
Speaker 1: I understand it's he's got to get the scene. And
Speaker 1: I make this decision of like I can either explain
Speaker 1: to you why I don't have time to talk to
Speaker 1: you right now and how if you let me have
Speaker 1: this forty five seconds we will get everything and we
Speaker 1: will stop, or I can go do it. So I
Speaker 1: just like quietly he's like talking kind of loudly. I
Speaker 1: just put the phone on a chair and to like,
Speaker 1: let's go and then we get it, and we got it.
Speaker 1: So I was like, it was one of those moments
Speaker 1: where I was like, we won't get it if, you know,
Speaker 1: keep having a discussion about how you want to get it.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't as follow He's upset and it was
Speaker 1: the last minute. But during that in the very last
Speaker 1: day of shooting, there was just so much and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of things kind of spill over because
Speaker 1: it's just a huge episode. There was one moment where
Speaker 1: Harold Ramos said to me, you go do the people,
Speaker 1: I'll do the tech stuff for this scene, like we
Speaker 1: divide it up. As a showrunner or whatever. I was
Speaker 1: able to kind of communicate with you anyway, but normally
Speaker 1: on a set as the director that speaks, you know,
Speaker 1: so he was like, go kind of communicate what you
Speaker 1: want and what's in the scene, and I'll kind of
Speaker 1: work on the camera stuff. So I guess he had
Speaker 1: mentioned and this is more about Harold Ramus just being
Speaker 1: incredibly generous than about my abilities. I can swear to
Speaker 1: you that at the time, but he had mentioned Greg
Speaker 1: that maybe I should be directing. So Greg had asked
Speaker 1: me if I wanted to do it, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: a thousand percent. Yes. I was super nervous when I
Speaker 1: first started directing. Um. I remember Ed or somebody else
Speaker 1: I think it was Ed had said, you know, fake
Speaker 1: it till you make it like it's advice in them,
Speaker 1: you know. And I was like, I can't fake it,
Speaker 1: and fake it just gonna look like I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. So I just researched and studied and
Speaker 1: tried to knew that you guys were phenomenal and nobody
Speaker 1: was gonna make me look bad because if I just
Speaker 1: screwed something up, you guys would elevate it. No one
Speaker 1: would notice. Well I don't know about that. Somebody would have,
Speaker 1: maybe not us, but yet Hey, it's de Lipa. I'm
Speaker 1: here to tell you about my brand new podcast, Do
Speaker 1: Reliper at your service. I'll be sitting down with the
Speaker 1: world's most inspiring minds to uncover what makes them tick,
Speaker 1: what they've learned from their successes, failures, and the obstacles
Speaker 1: life has thrown at them. We're going deep with people
Speaker 1: revolutionizing not just their own industries, but also culture more broadly.
Speaker 1: From least today, the author redefining what it means to
Speaker 1: tell women's stories to the fashion industry virtuoso Olivier Roosting.
Speaker 1: You'll even hear me break bread with some of the
Speaker 1: most iconic and disseous names and pop culture, like Sir
Speaker 1: Elton John. After a lot of upsets, a lot of disappointments,
Speaker 1: a lot of betrayals, It's turned out to be the
Speaker 1: most wonderful life right now that I've ever imagined. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to share all of this and more with you.
Speaker 1: Listen to do Reliper at your service on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not
Speaker 1: enough people know about, and we're here to change that.
Speaker 1: I'm April Dinuit, the host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption,
Speaker 1: presented by adopt us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling,
Speaker 1: real life adoption stories told by the families that lived them,
Speaker 1: with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org,
Speaker 1: slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt
Speaker 1: Us Kids, brought to you by the U. S Department
Speaker 1: of Health, that Human Services Administration for Children and Families,
Speaker 1: and the Act Council m HI I'm Elizabeth Dutton and
Speaker 1: I'm Elizabeth Dutton. Wait, sorry, Zaron, do you want to
Speaker 1: say your name? No, I'm good, good, go ahead. We're
Speaker 1: the hosts of Ridiculous Crime. People love true crime, right,
Speaker 1: the mystery, the intrigue, the human frailty totally. But what
Speaker 1: a lot of us don't like is the blood and
Speaker 1: the guts and the mayhem. Wait wait, wait, wait, some
Speaker 1: of us do like the mayhem. Okay, but let's be real,
Speaker 1: there's nothing funny about murder. Our show gives you stories
Speaker 1: like the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. And the Max
Speaker 1: Dreams signal hijacking. Oh so you mean ridiculous stories like
Speaker 1: the UK cat Shaver and Pablo Escobar's cocaine hippos. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stories like the dudes who stole Buzzy, the animatronic whatever
Speaker 1: he was from Disney World, and the woman whose husband
Speaker 1: tried to kill her but came back from the dead
Speaker 1: and surprised him at her own funeral. Yeah, that does
Speaker 1: sound good. You can find this new podcast, Ridiculous Crime
Speaker 1: all over the place, the I Heart Radio app, the
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't
Speaker 1: know how you live ridiculous crime. Okay, So then after
Speaker 1: season five, you and Paul are both in charge and
Speaker 1: you decide to to take a step back. Why did
Speaker 1: you decide to do that? So, this is such a
Speaker 1: hard thing to explain because it was my favorite job ever.
Speaker 1: I felt so lucky, I said, felt so blessed to
Speaker 1: be on that staff. It was the show that most
Speaker 1: mashed my sensibilities. Like I felt like I won the lottery,
Speaker 1: really really did. I think what happened? And I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was because we were doing so many
Speaker 1: episodes a year, but I just started to get a
Speaker 1: little bit, like it's a weird thing to say, because
Speaker 1: the show was, you know, phenomenal, but I started to
Speaker 1: get a little bit bored in that, Like I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to think in the same way and come up
Speaker 1: with the same kind of stories and characters and moments.
Speaker 1: And it got harder. And I think part of me too.
Speaker 1: There was something pushing me more and more and more
Speaker 1: to write original material, to be challenged to throw myself
Speaker 1: off the deep end and have to create a world
Speaker 1: of my own. You know, I really just also wanted
Speaker 1: to I wanted to be able to bring my a
Speaker 1: game and I felt like, I think I wanted a
Speaker 1: little bit of a new challenge, but it was an
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult position, and um, I wonder if I can
Speaker 1: tell the story. I'm gonna tell it, and then I
Speaker 1: can just always ask him it's okay to say about whatever.
Speaker 1: I decided I was going to leave and it was
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult. Um, And I told Jean, I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end up telling Greig that I'm going to leave,
Speaker 1: and like it was, you know, difficult for me, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, But I just said, don't say anything. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna do it, you know, But I
Speaker 1: just want to let you know. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I just felt an affinity to those guys. And Jeane
Speaker 1: laughed and he taught me a lesson I keep to
Speaker 1: this day. He laughed and he said, I think it's
Speaker 1: funny that you think I'm thinking of anything other than
Speaker 1: myself at any given moment. Like, I'm not gonna tell him.
Speaker 1: And I went up to tell Greg, and this was
Speaker 1: a Friday, and I was like, I'm just gonna get
Speaker 1: it over with and I go to the I'll go
Speaker 1: to his office and I start crying, like on the
Speaker 1: way to his office, and I was like, not today.
Speaker 1: Ladies don't cry at work, which I have cred at work,
Speaker 1: but I was like, so I just turned around and
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell him, and then I told him then
Speaker 1: on Monday, but I was just in greaz It was
Speaker 1: that painful. I just felt like I wanted a new challenge.
Speaker 1: I loved everybody so much though that it was such
Speaker 1: a difficult decision, and I just felt like, um, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember you telling me one at I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I just remember thinking, oh, well, that's a real loss.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. I it was really really
Speaker 1: hard for me. I loved you guys. I mean I
Speaker 1: just loved you. And it was awkward for me too
Speaker 1: because I felt like it was a hard thing to
Speaker 1: explain because I didn't know how to say it, because
Speaker 1: I didn't think the two things matched up. This was
Speaker 1: the best job I ever had. It was the most
Speaker 1: aligned with what I love to do. I love the
Speaker 1: cast more than any other cast I've been with. I
Speaker 1: love the writers, and so I was frustrating myself for
Speaker 1: a while, and I spent some months trying to decide
Speaker 1: it because I was like, what's wrong with my brain
Speaker 1: that I can't. I mean literally, I just like I
Speaker 1: just start being frustrated in myself of like, you know,
Speaker 1: what the hell? But I think it was just wanting
Speaker 1: at that point, and I had done other shows I
Speaker 1: started at I started on Home Improvement, I came up
Speaker 1: with whatever Wilson said, you know, like a lot of
Speaker 1: the Wilson stuff in his backyard. So I've been writing
Speaker 1: for a time and I think I wasn't necessarily brave
Speaker 1: enough to go out and try to write things of
Speaker 1: my own. And I think the Office. In fact, just
Speaker 1: remembering this right now, when I was telling Greg this,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was brave enough and confident enough
Speaker 1: to go off and do my own things because of
Speaker 1: my experience on the Office. And He's like, I did
Speaker 1: this to you. I created this, I created you wanted
Speaker 1: to leave. I was like, so, yeah, it was a difficult.
Speaker 1: It was really difficult for me. Um, why do you think, well,
Speaker 1: the show is bigger now in pop culture than it
Speaker 1: ever was when it was airing on NBC on Thursday nights.
Speaker 1: Why do you think people are connecting to it like
Speaker 1: they haven't or not that they haven't, but why has
Speaker 1: it become such a phenomenon. Well, um, maybe the part
Speaker 1: A is to just compliment it. But I'm just I
Speaker 1: just think Greg and you guys and you know, everybody
Speaker 1: created such a kind of almost timeless comedy show where
Speaker 1: it's like you very much relate to the people and
Speaker 1: there's such heart and it was well written. The actors
Speaker 1: everybody brought such comedy and some pathos and everything to it.
Speaker 1: So I think that it's one of those like lightning
Speaker 1: in a bottle things where everything coalesced at the right
Speaker 1: all together to create this thing. And then I think
Speaker 1: people don't sit down to watch TV at a certain
Speaker 1: time on a certain night. It's like people want to
Speaker 1: have it when they want to have it. They want
Speaker 1: to like I think I read Billie Eilish has watched
Speaker 1: every episode eleven times and she said that she has
Speaker 1: it on the in the background sometimes when she's just
Speaker 1: in her tour bus like other things to do. Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's something kind of comforting about at
Speaker 1: the relationships that you relate to and that there's it's
Speaker 1: so real, but you want to be able to put
Speaker 1: it on when you want to put it on, and
Speaker 1: especially younger people so that they just can you know,
Speaker 1: watch it whenever they want to digest it and want
Speaker 1: chip and so I also think that there's something happening
Speaker 1: right now where everybody is so fragment and everybody is
Speaker 1: so divided. There's a comfort that comes, which is weird
Speaker 1: because I think it is subversive and it is crazy,
Speaker 1: but there's a comfort that it's like, I know these people,
Speaker 1: They're like me, I know these people. I feel safe
Speaker 1: here instead of like, you know, whatevers, go else is
Speaker 1: going on around you. You can kind of retreat into
Speaker 1: that in a weird way. I felt that way when
Speaker 1: the Mr. Rogers movie. I was like, oh God, just
Speaker 1: come hug me and Mr Rodgers again and again. And
Speaker 1: there's like a weird thing which is subversive and it
Speaker 1: you know, but I do think that you feel like
Speaker 1: you know them, you feel like they're family, and then
Speaker 1: it makes you feel you can kind of disappear with
Speaker 1: them and stay with them for a while. It's not
Speaker 1: a one off and you care about all you guys
Speaker 1: who cared about the characters. Right, What are you most
Speaker 1: thankful for in your experience on the show Getting to
Speaker 1: be a part of it, I mean really just getting
Speaker 1: to be there. Um, I I would say overall, just
Speaker 1: being a part of it, getting to be in that
Speaker 1: writer's room and getting to work with you guys, getting
Speaker 1: to work with the actors. Um, it made me realize
Speaker 1: what is possible and what at the best something could be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just feel so. I feel so lucky and grateful.
Speaker 1: On on a on a smaller note, I think, you
Speaker 1: know I was talking about Greg and him being brave.
Speaker 1: I also think that he hired people that he believed in,
Speaker 1: but he also trusted them, and so there were some moments.
Speaker 1: There was a moment that really helped me and this
Speaker 1: is actually what I was referencing when I was leaving
Speaker 1: the show. Um, there was a moment with grief counseling
Speaker 1: actually where Greg got it and Steve got it and
Speaker 1: I got it. But it was a hard episode to
Speaker 1: put flags on and say this is what's happening to
Speaker 1: the character because it was so internal, and I think
Speaker 1: we had some notes of like, make sure the audience
Speaker 1: understands what's happening. And I knew Steve did, I knew
Speaker 1: Greg didn't. I know I did, But are people going
Speaker 1: to be a little confused with this? Are they not? So?
Speaker 1: Greg went through my episode and was maybe trying to
Speaker 1: put little signposts that if we needed them, great, they're there.
Speaker 1: If not, we'll pull him out in editing, and he
Speaker 1: was trying to sort of navigate this and I had
Speaker 1: written it in a way that it was difficult to
Speaker 1: do that. So after about six or eight hours for
Speaker 1: Better for Wars, I don't think it was all like
Speaker 1: beautifully written in a way that was intractable, but like
Speaker 1: I think that it was. Everything depended on the last thing.
Speaker 1: He was one of those where it was like he
Speaker 1: was literally going through all the stages of grief. And
Speaker 1: Greg at one point came to me and said, I
Speaker 1: want you to go into your office. I want you
Speaker 1: to think about anything that we did to try to
Speaker 1: put the signposts in, or any jokes that you know
Speaker 1: we came up with that we should add or not
Speaker 1: odd or whatever whatever, and I want you to figure
Speaker 1: out what do you want it to be? What do
Speaker 1: you not wanted to be one of those things do
Speaker 1: you want? And then we're going to shoot whatever you
Speaker 1: come out of your office with. And And that moment
Speaker 1: was like there was such faith and such trust and
Speaker 1: that gave me such a huge lift. I mean in
Speaker 1: my career in my own confidence level, and that actually
Speaker 1: I referenced when I was leaving. He's like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I caused this, But I think that personally, professionally writer wise,
Speaker 1: that meant a lot to me because I had been
Speaker 1: on staffs of shows where someone didn't get my sensibility,
Speaker 1: get my sense of humor, or you spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time trying to get something in someone else's voice
Speaker 1: that you don't believe in as much. So I felt
Speaker 1: very grateful. But the quick answer is I felt very
Speaker 1: grateful to be at the party. Well, you've said a
Speaker 1: number of times that their connection to us, but the
Speaker 1: characters are creation by the actors in conjunction with the writers.
Speaker 1: And your contribution to the show and your your leadership
Speaker 1: throughout multi of both seasons, but you leading it in
Speaker 1: one is huge. Well thank you. I just thank you.
Speaker 1: I felt so lucky to be there. Yeah, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming in. Oh I hope
Speaker 1: so I took you longer then I should have. I
Speaker 1: didn't even talk about that. Can I tell you one
Speaker 1: quick thing? Oh yes, I literally got talked to ones
Speaker 1: about it, not not in a like, but like Shure
Speaker 1: and Greg were like, could you be a tiny bit
Speaker 1: more selective in the amount of times you say, that's
Speaker 1: what she said. But that just made in the room
Speaker 1: as a as a person, because constantly I so greg
Speaker 1: ended up thinking that there were two parts of my brain,
Speaker 1: one that was thinking of comedy and story and the
Speaker 1: other one was just trolling for that's what she said.
Speaker 1: Set up. So what they did is they just made
Speaker 1: me more clever about it. Like I would have scenarios
Speaker 1: where like five people involved with it and it would
Speaker 1: be like three levels of dialogue deep, and then I'd
Speaker 1: be like, that's what she said. So it just made
Speaker 1: my brain work harder. But I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time up in the writer's room saying that's what she said,
Speaker 1: because I would constantly hear that set up. Who came
Speaker 1: up with it? B J brought it into the show. Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was something that pre existed and then
Speaker 1: he brought up brought it into the show. But it
Speaker 1: was definitely b J. But I have been credited for
Speaker 1: it only because I said so many times that people
Speaker 1: are like, what the fuck? Yeah, no, b J brought
Speaker 1: it up, but I took it in right, Um, okay,
Speaker 1: thank you? What did I tell you? Oh? Jen is
Speaker 1: the absolute best. Thanks for joining me, Jen, I am
Speaker 1: so glad that the world got to hear well from
Speaker 1: the woman behind the words. And to everyone else, thank
Speaker 1: you for listening. And guess what, ding ding ding ding
Speaker 1: ding special announcement, Why don't you come back tomorrow? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I am launching the rest of my conversation with
Speaker 1: our spectacular writer Mike Sure or you might know him
Speaker 1: as Dwight's weirdo cousin Mows. See you tomorrow, everyone. The Office.
Speaker 1: Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is
Speaker 1: Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia.
Speaker 1: My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
Speaker 1: theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend
Speaker 1: Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandski.
Speaker 1: Adoption of teams from foster care is a topic not
Speaker 1: enough people know about, and we're here to change that.
Speaker 1: I'm April Dinnuity, host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption,
Speaker 1: presented by adopt Us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling,
Speaker 1: real life adoption stories told by the families that lived
Speaker 1: them with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org,
Speaker 1: slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt
Speaker 1: us Kids, brought to you by the U. S Department
Speaker 1: of Health, that Human Services Administration for Children and Families,
Speaker 1: and the ACT Council. Look for your children's eyes and
Speaker 1: you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find
Speaker 1: a forest near you and start exploring. Get Discover the
Speaker 1: Forest dot org, brought to you by the United States
Speaker 1: Forest Service and the ad Council. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to be back with a third
Speaker 1: season of you and Me both. When I started this podcast,
Speaker 1: we were going through some tough times, and let's face it,
Speaker 1: we still are. And here's what I know. We cannot
Speaker 1: get through this alone. So please join me for more
Speaker 1: conversations with people who will make you think, make you laugh,
Speaker 1: and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll
Speaker 1: be talking about the state of our democracy with experts
Speaker 1: and with people organizing on the ground. We'll draw inspiration
Speaker 1: from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and
Speaker 1: Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle, and we'll get into the
Speaker 1: hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend
Speaker 1: and colleague Huma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to you
Speaker 1: and me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast m hm