Speaker 1: The Volume. All right, welcome to him tonight here at
Speaker 1: the Volume Heavy Monday, everybody. I hope all of you
Speaker 1: guys had an incredible weekend. Got a jampack show for
Speaker 1: you guys today. I have five big takeaways from the weekend.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the Game
Speaker 1: Over podcast with Rich Paul and Max Kellerman, some of
Speaker 1: the things they said, some of the fallout of some
Speaker 1: of the ways that they behave on that show. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that debate about Tony Allen versus
Speaker 1: Lebron James on defense, which I thought was fascinating. I
Speaker 1: have some follow up on our Spike Skin pod. And
Speaker 1: then at the tail end of the show, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the report that the Golden State Warriors
Speaker 1: passed on Jalen Brown or we're just kind of generally
Speaker 1: uninterested in him. To be clear, just real quick about
Speaker 1: our schedule this week. We're doing this stuff today, the
Speaker 1: kind of five takeaways from the weekend. We are starting
Speaker 1: player rankings officially on Wednesday. We're going to do our
Speaker 1: kind of rules, kind of go over how the list works,
Speaker 1: and then I have seven players that we're going to
Speaker 1: hit that we're like honorable mention on Wednesday, and then
Speaker 1: Friday will be the first chunk of players on the
Speaker 1: list number twenty five, twenty four, and twenty three.
Speaker 2: So the player.
Speaker 1: Rankings are starting this week, starting on Wednesday. You guys
Speaker 1: are the two before we started. Subscribe to Hoops and
Speaker 1: not YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
Speaker 1: We still have a goal to get to one hundred
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Speaker 1: That helps us a lot. And then no mailbag this week.
Speaker 1: But the way the mailbags are going to work, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have mailbags kind of centered around the player rankings
Speaker 1: list starting a week from this Friday. I obviously want
Speaker 1: to get some players out there, so you guys have
Speaker 1: some mailbag questions to ask. But our mailbags are very
Speaker 1: much going to be a debate about the player rankings,
Speaker 1: so I want you guys to come prepared with arguments
Speaker 1: for why you guys disagree with the players are rank
Speaker 1: will start a week from Friday, all right, let's talk
Speaker 1: some basketball. So our first big takeaway from the weekend.
Speaker 1: Rich Paul is free to podcast about whatever he wants,
Speaker 1: but let's not pretend like there aren't consequences for the
Speaker 1: things you say on that type of forum. It's you
Speaker 1: know again. We could argue about whether or not it
Speaker 1: should have had a big impact on Lebron James leaving
Speaker 1: the Lakers in the fracturing of his relationship there, but
Speaker 1: it certainly was part of that deterioration. Lebron's so good
Speaker 1: at basketball that the Lakers should have kept him, just
Speaker 1: like the Sixers shouldn't be concerned about whether or not
Speaker 1: it's worth it to have Lebron James. But it was
Speaker 1: part of that deterioration. The relationship that Rich Paul has
Speaker 1: with Lebron James makes this sort of thing complicated. Take
Speaker 1: some of the specific things we've heard from Rich, like
Speaker 1: him talking about how this could all be good for vj.
Speaker 1: Edgecomb as long as he accepts a smaller role in
Speaker 1: a winning context, or the stuff about Lebron being basically
Speaker 1: like a media shield for Jalen Brown. Now, if guys
Speaker 1: like me or anybody else in the media, or any
Speaker 1: fan for that matter, if you guys make those assertions,
Speaker 1: it's basically just analysis of a situation, and I don't
Speaker 1: even necessarily disagree with anything there.
Speaker 2: Like I do think that VJ.
Speaker 1: Edgecumb learning how to play a smaller role in a
Speaker 1: winning context could actually help him in the long run
Speaker 1: of his career. I do think that having Lebron around
Speaker 1: will help with managing the media circus surrounding the team.
Speaker 1: But if Rich Paul says it, it feels more direct.
Speaker 1: It's Lebron's agent thinks VJ. Edgecomb should take a back seat.
Speaker 1: Lebron's agent thinks Austin Reeves is overpaid. Lebron's agent thinks
Speaker 1: Austin Reeves should be traded. Lebron's agent thinks, even though
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown will be thirty years old at the start
Speaker 1: of next season, that he somehow needs help handling media circus.
Speaker 1: And again I don't even necessarily disagree, Like Jalen Brown's
Speaker 1: behavior with the media has been kind of weird over
Speaker 1: the last year and mismanaged a little bit, but it's
Speaker 1: just different and it feels more direct when it comes
Speaker 1: from Lebron's agent. The bottom line is the seventy six
Speaker 1: Ers are gonna be a circus next year. No matter
Speaker 1: how things go, the Star powers off the charts, the
Speaker 1: storylines are riveting, they have legitimate championship expectations, and there
Speaker 1: are a half dozen ways it could go horribly wrong
Speaker 1: that the media will be prepared to pounce on. I
Speaker 1: mean we saw that firsthand in Lebron's free agency, the
Speaker 1: way that the whiteboard and some of the comments that
Speaker 1: were made kind of caused massive waves.
Speaker 2: In NBA media.
Speaker 1: This is like, this team is going to have enough
Speaker 1: to deal with without Lebron's agent kicking up dust every
Speaker 1: week with this pot Again, I'm not saying that Rich
Speaker 1: shouldn't have a podcast. I'm just saying, like, there are
Speaker 1: consequences to the things we say. It's that classic reality, right,
Speaker 1: like we all have freedom of speech, but we don't
Speaker 1: have freedom from consequences, and that could get super serious
Speaker 1: right on the high end legal. I thought it was
Speaker 1: super funny the other day when Trump did his latest
Speaker 1: election fraud speech and even Fox News was like, we're
Speaker 1: not talking about it, and they just ignored it and
Speaker 1: moved on. You know why, because they lost their ass
Speaker 1: in a lawsuit when they inappropriately piggybacked on that whole
Speaker 1: election lie back in twenty twenty with the dominion voting machines,
Speaker 1: like they fucked around and found out that there are
Speaker 1: consequences to the things that you say when you go
Speaker 1: lie on television or say things on television. But even
Speaker 1: on the low end, if you have a platform and
Speaker 1: you say things about other people, there are potentially consequences
Speaker 1: with the way that people will respond to the things
Speaker 1: that you say. Say that, like Max Kellerman pitches the
Speaker 1: idea of a VJ Edgecombe trade a month into the
Speaker 1: season because Vja's struggling, kind of like he already did
Speaker 1: with em Beat, which we're gonna hit later on in
Speaker 1: the show. If Rich doesn't handle it deftly, it could
Speaker 1: be all over ESPN, all over FS ONE, all over
Speaker 1: Twitter for a few days. And if you don't think
Speaker 1: that that could have an impact on a twenty one
Speaker 1: year old kid who's struggling with a small role, I
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. Frankly, to me, it
Speaker 1: feels kind of a bit unnecessary right now considering how
Speaker 1: successful Rich is, you know, separate from this media universe.
Speaker 1: And I'd argue, like even just waiting until Lebron retires
Speaker 1: because of just how big of a media machine Lebron is.
Speaker 1: Even just waiting until Lebron retires could go a long
Speaker 1: way to making this a more like feasible venture for
Speaker 1: him that doesn't have like trickle down impacts with the
Speaker 1: way that things are said. There's just a lot of
Speaker 1: pressure if the way this team is covered is going
Speaker 1: to involve a popular podcast where every storyline of the
Speaker 1: season is going to be discussed. And you have Max Kellerman,
Speaker 1: who very much plays the meati. He's a hot take
Speaker 1: guy personified. I want a godala right, like to have
Speaker 1: that guy asking Rich Paul questions every single week surrounding
Speaker 1: the team has the potential to be a distraction. That
Speaker 1: is just a fact. Number two, Max Kellerman. As we're
Speaker 1: sticking on the game over Pod here for a second,
Speaker 1: Max Kellerman on the Game over Pod pitched the idea
Speaker 1: of trading Joel Embiid. I personally think it's way too
Speaker 1: early to consider moving a player of Joel's caliber, So
Speaker 1: I understand the general idea here, right, You've got a
Speaker 1: player that is on a massive salary that is kind
Speaker 1: of the odd man out of this group in some ways.
Speaker 1: You know, Lebron transition athlete Jaylen Brown, transition athlete Tyres
Speaker 1: maxivj Edgecomb. They're just super fast, right, and Joel Embiid
Speaker 1: is slow, and he's reached this phase of his career
Speaker 1: where he's still very good offensively when he's health but
Speaker 1: on defense there's major question marks if he has to
Speaker 1: venture anywhere away from the rim, and there's just general
Speaker 1: health question marks, right. And so I'm not opposed to
Speaker 1: the idea of potentially trading Joel Embiid if the situation
Speaker 1: calls for it. I just think it's way too early
Speaker 1: because there's enough upside there that it's worth exploring. So
Speaker 1: I've talked about this idea before. But when I look
Speaker 1: at like what happened to Jalen Brown, specifically in that
Speaker 1: first round series where he started to struggle because Joel
Speaker 1: Embiid was trolling the paint and turning Jalen into just
Speaker 1: a mid range player, right, Not that Jalen Brown can't
Speaker 1: do that, but it just took away one of the
Speaker 1: most impactful parts of his game, the ability to get
Speaker 1: all the way to the basket. Right now, Joel Embiid
Speaker 1: is a counter to that very situation. On the other
Speaker 1: end of the floor, his ability to reliably knock down,
Speaker 1: catch and shoot three spaces the floor and creates opportunity
Speaker 1: to get to the basket more easily. I think about
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown, and I think about Lebron James, who, by
Speaker 1: the way, he has been playing without spacing fives for
Speaker 1: this entire last third of his career. I think about
Speaker 1: Tyrese Maxi, one of the fastest players in the NBA,
Speaker 1: and I think about all the upside if you have
Speaker 1: a five man and Joel Embiid that can consistently pull
Speaker 1: that guy away from the basket, and there is no oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna guard him with a ford, Joel will bury
Speaker 1: that dude under the basket. There's no hiding your center
Speaker 1: on a non shooter. That center's gotta guard Joel Embiid,
Speaker 1: or you're just throwing the ball to him in the
Speaker 1: post and he's doing what he did to the Celtics
Speaker 1: in the first round. Even if you have a center,
Speaker 1: if he's not the right kind of center, Joel's gonna
Speaker 1: annihilate that dude. There is so much offensive upside that
Speaker 1: I think it is at the very least worthwhile to
Speaker 1: go into the season with Joel Embiid and just see
Speaker 1: how it looks now, if you get a couple months
Speaker 1: into the season and it's abundantly clear that the styles clash,
Speaker 1: Joel struggles to play on offense with all the ball handling,
Speaker 1: Joel's footspeed ends up being a major is you with
Speaker 1: their transition game or with what they're doing on defense.
Speaker 1: If it just looks obvious that the best version of
Speaker 1: the team involves the four other guys and Joel sticks
Speaker 1: out like a sore thumb, by all means, consider trading
Speaker 1: him at that point injuries. If Joel goes down with
Speaker 1: some sort of neat thing and it's like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: we need to attach a pick to his contract in
Speaker 1: order to multiple picks to his contract in order to
Speaker 1: try to bring back useful players. I understand that, but
Speaker 1: at the very least you got to go into the
Speaker 1: season with Joel.
Speaker 2: To explore that upside.
Speaker 1: Joel and b when he's healthy, is just simply one
Speaker 1: of the very best offensive players in the NBA, and
Speaker 1: his unique ability to space out rim protection could cause
Speaker 1: all sorts of problems for defenses. Again, if you look
Speaker 1: at the clunkiness of this group, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of people will think, oh, Lebron James Jylen Brown vj
Speaker 1: edgecomb this kind of Miami heat esque like Heatles ESK
Speaker 1: where maybe Lebron and d Wade or just slashers that
Speaker 1: don't play off of each other super well and if
Speaker 1: they can't space the floor, that can cause problems. Right,
Speaker 1: But what happened when they moved Chris Bosh to the five.
Speaker 1: When they moved Chris Bosh to the five in the
Speaker 1: later years of the Heatles and they started spacing out centers,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade were
Speaker 1: just feasting at the rim.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: Like this, this whole thing could be clunky, but if
Speaker 1: you get a spacing five out there, it could make
Speaker 1: it just work in a way that's devastating. So again,
Speaker 1: I think you got to explore keeping Joel and beat
Speaker 1: on the team, at least in the short term. Number
Speaker 1: three Tony Allen had this long, you know take about
Speaker 1: how Lebron James was. Oh, he had a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: says he was targeted on defense, which again I don't
Speaker 1: I don't remember Lebron James ever really being targeted on
Speaker 1: defense until like last year when he's just older and
Speaker 1: slower and some of the quicker players can go go
Speaker 1: around him. But players certainly scored on Lebron James in
Speaker 1: his career, but it was never like, oh, we're picking
Speaker 1: on Lebron James. It was like, oh, it was a
Speaker 1: late clock situation I happened to be going against him,
Speaker 1: or a random possession here or there. No one was
Speaker 1: targeting Lebron James for the vast majority of his career.
Speaker 1: He said that he kind of like simplified his overall
Speaker 1: defensive impact down to just chase down blocks. He used
Speaker 1: the word overrated. He said that he avoided guarding primary options,
Speaker 1: and it kind of sparked this debate about the difference
Speaker 1: between a guy like Tony Allen on defense and a
Speaker 1: guy like Lebron James on defense. I think this is
Speaker 1: really complicated. I've always had a hard time lumping in
Speaker 1: star level defenders with role player defenders just because of
Speaker 1: the reality of the job. Right Like I when I
Speaker 1: was in college at Arizona Christian my last year, I
Speaker 1: came in as a scoring type of dude. I was
Speaker 1: an All Conference player of the previous year and JUCO
Speaker 1: had a bunch of big scoring games. But I went
Speaker 1: onto a team that had two All American guards, and
Speaker 1: they didn't want me with the ball ever, And it
Speaker 1: was perfectly fine under the circumstances of that team. We
Speaker 1: had much better offensive players than me. You should not
Speaker 1: have given me the ball. But it allowed me to
Speaker 1: become like this just defender. I just guarded the other
Speaker 1: team's best player every single night, and I rebounded and
Speaker 1: I defended. I'd occasionally take an open catch and shoot three,
Speaker 1: do a handful of things here or there. But the
Speaker 1: other guys handled the offense and I guarded the other
Speaker 1: team's best player.
Speaker 2: That was my job.
Speaker 1: And what it did is it allowed me to kind
Speaker 1: of just devote all my energy in that direction. As
Speaker 1: I've gotten older and a lot more skilled offensively, and
Speaker 1: I'm playing in men's leagues and I'm playing in pickup
Speaker 1: runs and private runs and stuff like that, I have
Speaker 1: a lot more offensive responsibility. And guess what, it's not
Speaker 1: as easy for me to guard the other team's best
Speaker 1: player with the same level of.
Speaker 2: Energy that I usually do.
Speaker 1: But then I'll play, you know, with a particular pickup
Speaker 1: run where I've got good ball handlers on the team,
Speaker 1: or I'll play in a pro am here in Denver
Speaker 1: and I'll be on a team with a lot more talent,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it's like I can devote
Speaker 1: on my energy to defense, and it's almost like for me,
Speaker 1: it's like going back in time to what it was
Speaker 1: like when I was at Arizona Christian where that was
Speaker 1: all I did, and all of a sudden, I have
Speaker 1: like this tons of energy and focus for that specific job.
Speaker 1: The reality is is that, like when you're talking about
Speaker 1: a Tony Allen in the NBA, his job is fundamentally
Speaker 1: different than a Jalen Brown or a Lebron James, right,
Speaker 1: and like, for instance, the idea of him guarding primary options,
Speaker 1: it would be stupid to deploy Lebron James as a
Speaker 1: primary perimeter defensive option from the opening tip of every
Speaker 1: single game. All it would cause is him to not
Speaker 1: do is good of a job because he doesn't have
Speaker 1: the energy for it, or to do too good of
Speaker 1: a job and have it have an impact on the
Speaker 1: energy reserves. He has to be good on the offensive
Speaker 1: end of the floor. Lebron was always capable of that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. It was just something that they only
Speaker 1: deployed in high leverage situations. Okay, it's the end of
Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference Finals in twenty eleven. Let's have Lebron
Speaker 1: James guard Derreck Rose. Okay, it's the gold the semi
Speaker 1: final game in the Olympics. Let's have Lebron James gard
Speaker 1: Nikola Jokic for the entire fourth quarter. Okay, it's the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty Western Conference Finals. And the Jamal Murray Nicole
Speaker 1: Jokic pick and roll is causing problems. We want to
Speaker 1: be able to switch it. So let's put Lebron James
Speaker 1: on Jamal Murray and Anthony Davis on Nikola Jokic, and
Speaker 1: let's switch. And we're gonna just use Lebron as the
Speaker 1: guy who can both guard Jamal Murray and switch on
Speaker 1: to Nikola Jokic.
Speaker 2: And he's good.
Speaker 1: But they only did that at like, what was it
Speaker 1: the final few minutes of Game four of that series,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly. So it's like, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, Lebron has always been capable of that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. They've just been his coaching stabs and
Speaker 1: his teams have been like kind of selective about when
Speaker 1: they want to use him in that specific.
Speaker 2: Way as a product of his energy reserves.
Speaker 1: Now, does that mean he was as good at guarding
Speaker 1: perimeter players as Tony Allen. No like. Talk to anybody
Speaker 1: who's played in the Tony Allen era and they'll tell
Speaker 1: you he was one of the best, if not the best,
Speaker 1: perimeter defenders in the league.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant has personally said that Tony Allen was the
Speaker 1: guy that gave him the most issues. But again, that
Speaker 1: was the one thing that he did and it was
Speaker 1: why he was in the NBA. He was a professional
Speaker 1: perimeter defender. Today's show is brought to you by a
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Speaker 1: or Tennessee. So again, like I I think, like even
Speaker 1: just the baseline under which we're having this discussion that
Speaker 1: Tony Allen's trying to have is flawed because we're talking
Speaker 1: about a role player perimeter defender, Excuse me, a role
Speaker 1: player perimeter defender versus a guy who has a whole
Speaker 1: lot more responsibility on the floor. Now, let's dig a
Speaker 1: little bit further into this, because I do think it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: I do think that when we talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: best defenders in the league, best defenders of all time,
Speaker 1: we tend to kind of like focus on specific types
Speaker 1: of guys. And I think there's a way to have
Speaker 1: that conversation as a as a a when we talk
Speaker 1: about team building. So, what is the most valuable type
Speaker 1: of defender? To me, the most valuable type of defender
Speaker 1: is still to this day, a center, that is versatile,
Speaker 1: meaning a guy who can protect the rim, but that
Speaker 1: isn't so slow that he can be picked on by speed.
Speaker 1: This is why we look at the Victor wembin Yama's,
Speaker 1: the Chet Holmgrens, the bam Ata bios, the Anthony Davis
Speaker 1: when he was healthy, the Rudy Gobars. They are still
Speaker 1: the most valuable defensive players in the league. Why because
Speaker 1: in any sort of help side situation, they shut off
Speaker 1: the rim and they give you a much more of
Speaker 1: a fighting chance and pick and roll. If he can
Speaker 1: get up to the level and get back in dynamic
Speaker 1: drop coverages, and if he can get up to the
Speaker 1: level and switch in circumstances where a guard is really
Speaker 1: cooking and you need them to shut that water off,
Speaker 1: that is still the most valuable type of defender. From there,
Speaker 1: the second most valuable type of defender to me is
Speaker 1: the Swiss army knife, the guy that can do a
Speaker 1: lot really well. Now does that mean that Lebron James
Speaker 1: did that stuff every minute of every game for all
Speaker 1: eighty two for his entire career. No, but I do
Speaker 1: think he slots into that group, which is like, can
Speaker 1: he guard multiple positions on the perimeter Can he also
Speaker 1: guard bullyball post up players. Can he also be effective
Speaker 1: as a secondary rim protector Lebron James blocking Thiago Splitter
Speaker 1: at the rim, Lebron James blocking Tim Duncan at the
Speaker 1: rim in low man rotations in the mid twenty tens,
Speaker 1: there can you be a all of those things? Secondary
Speaker 1: rim protector, defensive rebounding talent guard power forwards and post
Speaker 1: up centers switching on to point guards. That to me
Speaker 1: is the second most valuable type of defender in the league.
Speaker 1: Then the the third most valuable type of defender to
Speaker 1: me in the league is that I put this guy
Speaker 1: on the other team's best player and he makes life
Speaker 1: hell for him for forty eight minutes.
Speaker 2: That is a very valuable archetype.
Speaker 1: And I would argue Tony Allen was definitely better at that.
Speaker 1: Then Lebron was at his job simply because of the
Speaker 1: fact that Lebron had other responsibilities on the floor. But
Speaker 1: when you got into any big game. Another way for
Speaker 1: me to frame this is, there were five minutes left
Speaker 1: in Game seven of the NBA Finals. Who do I
Speaker 1: think is a better defensive player, a more valuable defensive player,
Speaker 1: Lebron James or Tony Allen, I think it's Lebron James,
Speaker 1: and I think in many ways he's become underrated in
Speaker 1: that specific way. Over the course of his career. He
Speaker 1: never got the Defensive Player of the Year award. You know,
Speaker 1: he hasn't made an All Defense team since what twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen or twenty thirteen, and you know, definitely towards the
Speaker 1: tail end of his career he let go of the
Speaker 1: rope in the regular season. But still, even even at
Speaker 1: this age, even at forty two, like Lebron did that
Speaker 1: job on Nikola Jokic as a forty year old man.
Speaker 1: Like that, that type of versatility I think is highly underrated.
Speaker 1: Did he guard the other team's best player for forty
Speaker 1: eight minutes every single night? No?
Speaker 2: Did he play super hard all the time? No?
Speaker 1: But Lebron to me fits into that like second tier
Speaker 1: of defender, that like versatile dud does everything well defender,
Speaker 1: and I think in many ways that's actually more valuable
Speaker 1: to constructing a defense than just the guy who can
Speaker 1: guard the other.
Speaker 2: Team's best player.
Speaker 1: And none of them are gonna be as good as
Speaker 1: a Victor or a Chet or a Bam or Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis or Rudy Gobert because still to this day a
Speaker 1: dynamic rim protector that can also move his feet on
Speaker 1: the perimeters, the most valuable defensive player in the world.
Speaker 1: Number four had some follow up on the Spike Eskin interview,
Speaker 1: and there's two main things that I want to hit here.
Speaker 1: First of all, a lot of people were very critical
Speaker 1: of me for having him on the show and just
Speaker 1: critical of Spike in general. And I don't want to
Speaker 1: go too long on this, but just very simply here's
Speaker 1: how I feel. One, I wanted to have someone on
Speaker 1: the show that was more pessimistic about the team. That
Speaker 1: was intentional. You guys know, I'm super high on the
Speaker 1: potential that this group has. We had done a lot
Speaker 1: of seventy six Ers coverage in the week prior where
Speaker 1: we focused on a lot of upside and I wanted
Speaker 1: to bring in somebody that had more of a negative
Speaker 1: opinion so that we can unpack that a little bit,
Speaker 1: and we did. We did that on the show, So
Speaker 1: that was intentional. It wasn't like I'm looking for someone
Speaker 1: who's negative on the team for any reason other than
Speaker 1: to just provide an alternative perspective. Secondly, he like legitimately,
Speaker 1: I've met Spike before I met him in Vegas. He's
Speaker 1: super nice guy, and this is something I would I again,
Speaker 1: this is just my opinion, and I understand like people
Speaker 1: feel the way they feel the same reason that you know,
Speaker 1: some people look at Lebron James and just can't stand
Speaker 1: the guy. Like, I understand that people feel that. I
Speaker 1: know there's people that feel the way about me. Just
Speaker 1: look at my comments every single show, right, So, like, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to tell people how to feel, but
Speaker 1: I personally think it's ridiculous to decide you hate a
Speaker 1: person because of a sports take. Like do you think
Speaker 1: Spike made some sort of weird intentional effort to dislike
Speaker 1: Lebron or do you think it's an authentic feeling that
Speaker 1: comes from him. It's obviously an authentic feeling. He didn't
Speaker 1: liked the guy. I disagree. I disagreed with a lot
Speaker 1: of the stuff he said on the show. I know
Speaker 1: you guys disagree with him too. That doesn't make him
Speaker 1: a bad guy. He's a good dude. Met him before,
Speaker 1: when I met him, he was a good dude. He
Speaker 1: came on and he provided an alternative perspective, and I
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do want
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about his take about winning
Speaker 1: with excuse me, the idea of how he'd rather lose
Speaker 1: without Lebron than win with it. I think there's a
Speaker 1: specific point that he made that I want to unpack
Speaker 1: a little bit more, and it's the idea of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is just a bunch of mercenaries winning seven or
Speaker 1: wearing seventy six ers jerseys. And the point that he
Speaker 1: was making was basically like, if we end up trading
Speaker 1: Joel Embiid or trading vj Edgecomb and we end up
Speaker 1: winning with this like kind of random group of guys,
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, maybe Maxie will still be there, But like,
Speaker 1: how is that what is that really going to feel like?
Speaker 1: That's like, how is that going to resonate if it's
Speaker 1: just like a bunch of different guys. And where I
Speaker 1: pushed back on that is like, if you dig back
Speaker 1: through NBA history, every single champion tends to be a
Speaker 1: combination of homegrown talent and mercenary talent. They all are
Speaker 1: just dig back through it, right, like the Knicks, there
Speaker 1: are guys that have been there forever, right, Jalen Brunson's
Speaker 1: been there for a long time, you know, Josh Hart's
Speaker 1: been there for a long time. Obviously, Ojannoby's been there
Speaker 1: a little bit longer. But like mckal Bridges and Mitter
Speaker 1: Robinson was there for a long time, but like mckail
Speaker 1: Bridges and Karl Anthony Towns were like just big acquisitions
Speaker 1: a little over a year and a half ago, you know,
Speaker 1: and like in that summer before the twenty twenty five campaign, right, so,
Speaker 1: like you dig into it and it's it's like it's
Speaker 1: a group of guys that were Nicks for a while
Speaker 1: with you know, an addition in the form of Jalen Brunson,
Speaker 1: which followed with an addition of og Anobi, with an
Speaker 1: addition of Karl Anthony Towns and McHale Bridges. It's not
Speaker 1: like just some group of homegrown, home drafted talent. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like a combination of dudes who have been
Speaker 1: there for a while, some longer than others, and then
Speaker 1: some last minute editions that push them over the top.
Speaker 1: Look at the thunder same exact sort of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some homegrown talent there in guys like homegrown in
Speaker 1: Jalen Williams, but there's also like it took tanking to
Speaker 1: acquire those players. They had a massive trade for Shake
Speaker 1: Gildess Alexander like Shakes as Alexander was drafted by the Clippers.
Speaker 1: And then what pushed them over the top a couple
Speaker 1: of late acquisitions in the form of Isaiah Hartenstein, who
Speaker 1: was like like felt like a New York Nick personified,
Speaker 1: and Alex Caruso. Again a combination of homegrown talent and
Speaker 1: dudes who were acquired that kind of bolstered them and
Speaker 1: pushed them over the top. The Boston Celtics, yeah, Jalen
Speaker 1: Brown and Jason Tatum been there for a long time.
Speaker 1: Al Horford very much felt like a Celtic, Derek White
Speaker 1: at that point had been there for a few years
Speaker 1: felt like a Celtic. But Drew Holliday and Chris hops
Speaker 1: porzingis for last minute editions that pushed them over the top.
Speaker 1: You can go on and on through NBA history. It's
Speaker 1: like Aaron Gordon was the guy who pushed the Denver
Speaker 1: Nuggets over the top.
Speaker 2: It's it's always.
Speaker 1: Like a mix between existing talent that has been there
Speaker 1: for a while and dudes that come in and push
Speaker 1: them over the top and if you end up winning
Speaker 1: a title as the Philadelphia seventy six ers and Joel
Speaker 1: Embiid gets traded, but Tyrese Maxie is there, and VJ.
Speaker 1: Edgecomb is a homegrown talent, and Dominic Barlow was there
Speaker 1: before this, Justin Edwards was there before this. If Tyrese
Speaker 1: Maxie wins finals MVP, which it would certainly be a possibility,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna feel like just a bunch
Speaker 1: of mercenaries. I think it's gonna feel like any other champion.
Speaker 1: You've got a group of guys who were homegrown who
Speaker 1: are part of that team, and then you've got an
Speaker 1: influx of talent at the end that pushed you over
Speaker 1: the top. So like, I think this in other words,
Speaker 1: like where I disagree with Spike is like this kind
Speaker 1: of this fantasy land where there's this perfect group of
Speaker 1: just only homegrown guys that everyone seems to like and
Speaker 1: that you end up with the trophy at the end
Speaker 1: of the line. So like again, again, that's that's my
Speaker 1: take on it. And my whole thing is I don't
Speaker 1: think we like do I agree with Spike? No. I
Speaker 1: know most of you guys disagree with him, but he's
Speaker 1: a nice dude. You just an opinion you disagreed with,
Speaker 1: And I think it's kind of ridiculous for us all
Speaker 1: decide to decide that we just like dislike a person
Speaker 1: because of a sports take. That just seems that's a
Speaker 1: bridge too far from me. You're not gonna get me
Speaker 1: on board with that. Number five. Last one for the day,
Speaker 1: This Warriors report that they pass on Jalen Brown is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: So essentially, the report that came out was that the
Speaker 1: Warriors essentially were offered by the Celtics to get Jalen
Speaker 1: Brown in exchange for four first round picks, and essentially
Speaker 1: the Warriors were like, we don't think Jalen Brown's good
Speaker 1: enough to carry us in the post Steph Courre era,
Speaker 1: so we're going to pass on Jalen Brown. This is
Speaker 1: an absolutely perfect example of the absurdity of the Warriors
Speaker 1: approach to team building in recent years. So your foundation
Speaker 1: is you've got this player and Steph curR who is
Speaker 1: in his late prime. For sure, is he a perennial
Speaker 1: MVP candidate anymore?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Is he a top tier superstar in the league anymore? No,
Speaker 1: But he's still one of the most impactful offensive players
Speaker 1: in the league. You just you put him on the floor,
Speaker 1: you got a one twenty offensive rating. We've been talking
Speaker 1: about that for years, even at his old age, and
Speaker 1: he had the upside on nights where he had his
Speaker 1: legs underneath him, where he could still reach the level
Speaker 1: of the top tier superstars in the NBA. In other words,
Speaker 1: a guy that gives you a legitimate chance to compete
Speaker 1: in the in the modern NBA landscape, and the Warriors
Speaker 1: have just been constantly waiting for the perfect guy to
Speaker 1: pounce on when the time comes. In this case, it
Speaker 1: was Joannis Santana. Kumpo was the guy they really wanted,
Speaker 1: and as a result, they've passed on great in pursuit
Speaker 1: of perfect They passed on Ojananobi, they passed on Pascal Siakam,
Speaker 1: they passed on on Jalen Brown, they passed on all
Speaker 1: these dudes. They passed on Anthony Davis, they passed on
Speaker 1: Trey Murphy, whoever it might be.
Speaker 2: And the one guy that make a move on.
Speaker 1: Is a super distressed asset in Jimmy Butler, right, and
Speaker 1: they've moved i think one first round picking that deal. Right,
Speaker 1: So like they have been super hesitant to push assets
Speaker 1: in the middle to improve the team. Where I think
Speaker 1: of this as a where this is a fallacy is
Speaker 1: the simple fact that you're not paying four first round
Speaker 1: picks for Jalen Brown and then Jalen Brown ceases to
Speaker 1: carry any value.
Speaker 2: That's not how this works.
Speaker 1: You could make a move for Jalen Brown potentially give
Speaker 1: yourself a better chance at Lebron.
Speaker 2: I'll go step further.
Speaker 1: I think if Jylen Brown was on the Golden State Warriors,
Speaker 1: that Lebron James would now be a Golden State Warrior.
Speaker 2: Lebron would be looking at and he'd be like, man,
Speaker 2: Steph Curry, d'.
Speaker 1: Anthony Melton, Jylen Brown, I got Al Horford and Chris
Speaker 1: Hops Porzingis and Draymond Green. I've got those forwards, you know,
Speaker 1: Gie Santos and Man, We've got We've got some talent
Speaker 1: over there. I'm close to home. I get to play
Speaker 1: with a bunch of guys that I really like. Lebron
Speaker 1: would be a Warrior now. So you could have paid
Speaker 1: for a first round picks, got Jalen Brown, got Lebron James,
Speaker 1: competed for a title for a couple of years, and
Speaker 1: then guess why you trade Jalen Brown, if you don't
Speaker 1: think he's the guy to lead you into the next
Speaker 1: era again, unless you are literally trading picks for a
Speaker 1: mid thirties role player, like Yeah, if you made a
Speaker 1: move for Dorian Finney Smith with draft compensation, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a hard time recouping those assets. If you make
Speaker 1: a move right now for like Andrew Wiggins and you
Speaker 1: keep him for a couple of years, I don't think
Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to recoup as much. But a
Speaker 1: guy like Jalen Brown is almost certainly going to be
Speaker 1: movable for some kind of value a year or two
Speaker 1: from now. And there's this idea that your only currency
Speaker 1: as a rebuilding team is draft picks. That's not the case.
Speaker 1: Every single thing is an asset in some way, shape
Speaker 1: or form. Every contract, A discounted role player that you like,
Speaker 1: gis aanto's is an asset. He's worth something to somebody
Speaker 1: because he makes almost nothing and he's a pretty solid
Speaker 1: basketball player. High level role players are an asset. Look
Speaker 1: at the Wolves might have been able to get into
Speaker 1: the Yannis sweepstakes with Jaden McDaniels, a high level role player.
Speaker 1: Everybody is an asset in one shape of in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form in some amount of value Jaylen Brown.
Speaker 1: Even though you lose four draft picks, you get Jalen Brown,
Speaker 1: a player that you can turn around in trade if
Speaker 1: you need to at some point in the future. That's
Speaker 1: where I disagreed with all this passing on Jalen Like, okay,
Speaker 1: we you don't think Anthony Davis is worth it? Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: First of all, you've been a lot cheaper than Jaylen Brown.
Speaker 1: But let's say you're saying Trey Murphy's the guy, then
Speaker 1: Trey Murphy will be a to be moved for something
Speaker 1: You could have gotten Trey Murphy giving yourself a better
Speaker 1: chance to compete with Steph a better chance to get
Speaker 1: Lebron James. And you could have still turned around and
Speaker 1: moved him in a year or two and gotten value
Speaker 1: for him. And again, guys like, let's dig into it.
Speaker 1: You actually did have high draft picks, multiple cracks at
Speaker 1: the lottery, multiple top ten picks, a number two overall pick,
Speaker 1: and you got nothing out of it. Nothing Wiseman, total
Speaker 1: bust kaminga. You ended up trading him for the rundown
Speaker 1: Chris soops porzingis that you got back so like your
Speaker 1: perceived value in these draft picks, this mystery box of
Speaker 1: which you've shown no ability to convert into foundational talent anyway,
Speaker 1: has been the barrier between you getting found national talent,
Speaker 1: giving yourself a better chance at Lebron James. When I
Speaker 1: read that report, I'm like, Oh, this is where they
Speaker 1: don't get it. This is where they don't get it.
Speaker 1: Incremental progress makes you a better basketball team, a better roster,
Speaker 1: has more tradable assets beyond the draft. It's diversifying your assets,
Speaker 1: that's all it is. Because now let's slick at what
Speaker 1: you got. You've got a bunch of draft picks, and
Speaker 1: the only player on your team that anybody really would
Speaker 1: be willing to move a lot of assets for is
Speaker 1: Steph Curry, who you're not gonna trade. He's gonna retire
Speaker 1: a Warrior. Moving picks for good players would have just
Speaker 1: given you a different type of asset, but it also
Speaker 1: would have made you more appealing to the likes of
Speaker 1: Lebron James, and you could be in a very different
Speaker 1: position today. The Warriors have consistently passed on great in
Speaker 1: pursuit of perfect and they found themselves with a shit
Speaker 1: roster and nowhere to go.
Speaker 2: I was just really frustrated when I read that report.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, That's all I have for today is
Speaker 1: always sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting
Speaker 1: the show again. We will be back Wednesday with our
Speaker 1: first episode of our player ranking series.
Speaker 2: I will see you guys then