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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week, in

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Speaker 1: the show, I am joined by author Brad Stalberg to

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Speaker 1: chat about the routines, habits, goal setting, practices, and philosophies

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Speaker 1: that peak performers across the world use to achieve excellence

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Speaker 1: and success in their world, and how we can take

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Speaker 1: lessons from those and apply them to our own pursuits

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Speaker 1: of hunting, archery, marksmanship, or much more. All right, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Today we have got another one of

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Speaker 1: these unique kind of outside of the box episodes. We

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Speaker 1: did one a couple weeks ago with Michael Easter. We've

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Speaker 1: got one more here today in which I am trying

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Speaker 1: to look outside of our hunting world for new ideas

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Speaker 1: and strategies and practices that can be applied inside of

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Speaker 1: our world and can be applied to our pursuits of

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Speaker 1: trying to become better deer hunters, or better Western hunters,

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Speaker 1: or better archers, marksmen, whatever that pursuit might be. There's

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Speaker 1: a whole lot outside of our little, tiny hunting and

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Speaker 1: fishing world that we can probably learn from, and so

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Speaker 1: I've been seeking out those experts who have studied this

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Speaker 1: as a career and who I think can teach us

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Speaker 1: a lot, and our guest here today is just one

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Speaker 1: of those people. Brad Staalberg is the author of many

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Speaker 1: different books and many articles and podcasts and different pieces

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Speaker 1: of content that circle all around this. How do you

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Speaker 1: pursue a goal? How do you achieve excellence or success

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Speaker 1: or mastery in something you care a lot about? Right?

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Speaker 1: That's something that we're trying to do. That's why you're

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Speaker 1: listening to this podcast as you've been trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to get better at hunting, or how to

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Speaker 1: get better at some version of this hunting set of

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Speaker 1: pursuits that we chase. So Brad is going to take

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Speaker 1: some of the ideas that we add actually talked about

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Speaker 1: with him several many years ago. Actually I spoke with

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Speaker 1: him on episode two hundred and eighty two about a

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Speaker 1: couple of his books, one being The Passion Paradox and

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Speaker 1: one being a Peak Performance, And we're going to take

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Speaker 1: some of those ideas and advance them forward. He's written

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Speaker 1: several other best selling books since then, including Master of Change,

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Speaker 1: and now most recently, it's launching either right when you're

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Speaker 1: hearing this or very soon after The Way of Excellence,

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Speaker 1: and this book, I think, really ties a nice bow

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Speaker 1: on a lot of the ideas that he has explored

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Speaker 1: across all of his books and all of his articles

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Speaker 1: and content. And really what it does and what we're

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about here today is how we

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Speaker 1: can think about pursuing excellence in anything. And he cites

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Speaker 1: examples from the world of professional sports, from the worlds

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Speaker 1: of health and fitness, and business and entrepreneurship and science

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Speaker 1: and all these different things. How can the lessons learn

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Speaker 1: from those fields be applied to what you and I

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Speaker 1: care about? How can can we learn more about how

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Speaker 1: to do what we do better and enjoy it more

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Speaker 1: and find more satisfaction in it and grow more. That's

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Speaker 1: the conversation today. It's a really unique one, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I think it's particularly important and hopefully useful. Certainly

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Speaker 1: for me it has been, and I hope it will

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Speaker 1: be for you too. So, without any further ado by

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Speaker 1: chat with author Brad Stellberg. All right, joining me now

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Speaker 1: on the line is Brad Stellberg. Welcome to the show,

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Speaker 1: Brad Mark.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's just welcome back because you were on

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Speaker 1: the show, and I went back and looked in our

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Speaker 1: archives and that was back in the early two hundreds

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Speaker 1: of the show, and now we're over a thousand episodes,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty crazy. So it's well, it's well pastime

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Speaker 1: that we chat again and circle back. And you have

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Speaker 1: been very busy in the intro years. I think you've

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Speaker 1: published three books since we last chatted, maybe maybe four.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, how how are you holding up underneath that

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Speaker 1: incredible workload in the year since.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I don't know any other way to live.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just doing my thing, and I'm fortunate that

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Speaker 3: the you know, the the creative gods are are still

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Speaker 3: in my favor and the books keep coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a good thing. When when fate shines

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Speaker 1: on you like that, you do seem to be putting

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Speaker 1: your work into action. You know, all of your books,

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Speaker 1: whether it's about you know, this practice of groundness or

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Speaker 1: you know, mastering change or in this case, you know,

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Speaker 1: finding and articulating what excellence is in your life seems

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Speaker 1: to be from afar, something you're putting into play. But

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Speaker 1: but that's where I want to start is with this

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Speaker 1: word excellence, because I think every single person when they

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Speaker 1: hear that word, they think of something probably a little

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Speaker 1: bit different. There's a different definition for every one of us.

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Speaker 1: When I think of it in the context of this

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Speaker 1: podcast and in my audience, I'm thinking more about, you know,

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Speaker 1: how do we pursue excellence in our pursuit? Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: how do I become a better archer, or how do

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Speaker 1: I become a better marksman with a rifle, or how

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Speaker 1: do I train some ready for a big backcountry hunt,

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Speaker 1: or just become a better you deer hunter? Understanding wildlife

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Speaker 1: behavior and habitat and all those kinds of things. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that spend a big chunk of

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Speaker 1: their lives chasing those kinds of goals. That's what maybe

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Speaker 1: the listeners are thinking of right now when they think

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Speaker 1: of excellence. What are you thinking of when you say excellence?

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Speaker 3: I define excellence really simply. It is involved engagement and

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Speaker 3: caring deeply about a pursuit that you find worthwhile, that

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Speaker 3: aligns with your values and goals, and it is giving

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Speaker 3: something your all in. It is realizing that in the process,

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Speaker 3: the goal that you're working toward is also shaping you

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Speaker 3: as a person.

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Speaker 2: So, yes, you want to achieve a goal.

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Speaker 3: You might want to become a better archer, or a

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Speaker 3: better overall hunter, or a better outdoors person, or gain

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Speaker 3: fitness to go on a big back country and that

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Speaker 3: is the goal that you're working toward. But that goal

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Speaker 3: is also shaping you as a person. It's working on

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Speaker 3: you as teaching you about resilience and being uncomfortable and

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Speaker 3: overcoming challenges and frustration and building community and all of

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Speaker 3: these things.

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Speaker 2: And what I found in.

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Speaker 3: The research and reporting for this book, what I've found

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Speaker 3: in my own life, is that when we have these

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Speaker 3: big goals and we pursue them with integrity, it gives

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Speaker 3: us a sense of a liveness and satisfaction that is

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Speaker 3: increasingly hard to find in the modern world.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I think it's so important.

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Speaker 1: You've done some writing, and I've seen this on social

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Speaker 1: in your Guys's newsletter, and you've kind of explored I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say toxic because toxics becoming like a

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Speaker 1: loaded word, but almost like the double edged sword of

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Speaker 1: this pursuit maybe, And I've heard you. I think you've

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Speaker 1: kind of explored that the performative side of excellence or

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Speaker 1: different things like that, and that's certainly been something that

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Speaker 1: seems amplified by social media and our world today. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about that other side of this pursuit of

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Speaker 1: excellence a little bit and what risks might be that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I call it pseudo excellence or like hustle culture greatness,

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Speaker 3: which essentially says, and I'm painting in broad strokes, that

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Speaker 3: you've got to wake up at four am, have a

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Speaker 3: fifty six step routine, optimize every part of your day,

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Speaker 3: do six cold plunges, count every single calorie, be on

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Speaker 3: a super restrictive diet, measure your sleep, your heart.

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Speaker 2: Rate, on and on and on.

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Speaker 3: In there's nothing wrong with that per se, but what

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Speaker 3: often happens is that we lose sight of the main thing,

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Speaker 3: which is like, what's your goal? What do you care about?

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Speaker 3: And are you living in alignment with that? And I

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Speaker 3: think that what often happens, especially on the Internet, is

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Speaker 3: you get the performance of greatness or the performance of

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Speaker 3: excellence and not the real thing, because generally speaking, people

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Speaker 3: who are doing the real thing, they don't have time

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Speaker 3: for all that elaborate kabuki like they're so focused on

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Speaker 3: the fundamentals of their craft and on gaining skill and

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Speaker 3: mastery and competence that they don't mess around with any

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Speaker 3: of these in shiny objects or you know, cyclical trends.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's a distinction that's important to

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Speaker 3: make because what happens is people hear excellence and they

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Speaker 3: have these two very common misconceptions. One is what I

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Speaker 3: just said. They're like, oh, that's all the bros on

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Speaker 3: the internet, Like, that's not for me. I don't have

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Speaker 3: time for that. That I can't deal with that. The other, though,

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Speaker 3: is that excellence is only for the elite few, or

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Speaker 3: people with impeccable genetics, or it's this standard that they're

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Speaker 3: never going to attain. And I don't think that's accurate.

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Speaker 3: I think that you go back to all the ancient

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Speaker 3: wisdom traditions, starting with the ancient Greeks, excellence is actually

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Speaker 3: not a standard. It's a process of becoming, and it's

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Speaker 3: available to all of us, and its benefits are available

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Speaker 3: to all of us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this there's a similar thing going on within

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Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing world around. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's hero worship or trophy worship or or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's worshiping the outcome. It's this adoration

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Speaker 1: and sensationalization of the big buck, the huge fish having

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Speaker 1: more of this kind of quote unquote success, and it

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Speaker 1: seems to have all sorts of ripple effects because of that,

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Speaker 1: it's changing how people feel about their pursuit. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: start doing things for different reasons, or they're feeling bad

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Speaker 1: about their version of this pursuit because it's not like

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Speaker 1: the person they see online. There's all this kind of

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Speaker 1: comparison culture stuff. How do you break out of that?

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Speaker 1: How have you found how do you be someone who

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Speaker 1: cares about pursuing growth and getting better at your thing

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Speaker 1: without falling into that trap?

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Speaker 3: I think you need to have a finely tuned bullshit

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Speaker 3: detector to be quite frank, And I think that I

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Speaker 3: make the assumption that if someone or some group of

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Speaker 3: people is like really just posting NonStop on the internet

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Speaker 3: about something that seems extreme, I just make an assumption

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Speaker 3: that they're not serious people and maybe they did it,

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Speaker 3: and maybe they did it without integrity, or maybe they're

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Speaker 3: just this crazy outlier and about them. But like, either way,

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Speaker 3: if it's not if it's not useful, if it's not

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Speaker 3: a good motivating force, then I'm just going to ignore it.

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Speaker 3: Who do I compare myself to who do I draw

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Speaker 3: inspiration from, Like actual people who I know and I

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Speaker 3: know their work and I know how they pursue it,

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Speaker 3: and I know it's real, And those are the people

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Speaker 3: that are better than me, that inspire me, that I

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Speaker 3: want to learn from and grow. But it's much more

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Speaker 3: local because like I actually know these people and I

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Speaker 3: know their work. I think it's just going to get

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Speaker 3: worse with AI. It's already happening. I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that if you want it to be a tremendous outdoors

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Speaker 3: men or outdoors woman influencer, you could, with a couple

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Speaker 3: hundred bucks in a couple of basic training courses in

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Speaker 3: AI create all kinds of stuff that is completely fake

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Speaker 3: that would gain you a massive following on the internet.

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Speaker 3: So I just think, like we have to be very

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Speaker 3: careful about when we compare ourselves to people. Do we

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Speaker 3: actually know the person, do we actually know their process?

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Speaker 3: And and if not, then I think it's largely just

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Speaker 3: like ignore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is another side of this too in this

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Speaker 1: context that I'm curious about. When you hear about whether

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Speaker 1: it's self development or peak performance or you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to pursue excellence, many times these ideas are explored in

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Speaker 1: the context of your profession. You know, it's something you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do to become better at your job, or

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Speaker 1: to become a better entrepreneur, to become a world class athlete,

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, and so there seems to be

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Speaker 1: like a tangible outcome that you are dependent on in

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Speaker 1: one way or another. While with a pursuit like hunting

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Speaker 1: or fishing, or just like a recreational pursuit of anything,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious if the pursuit of excellence and what you've

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Speaker 1: learned about it is or should be considered differently. When

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's supposed to be your recreation, right,

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Speaker 1: this is something usually whether it's playing basketball or running

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Speaker 1: or anything. A lot of people got into it because, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is like a fun thing I liked. But then

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Speaker 1: at some point they start pursuing more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: What have you found about the unique aspect of this

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Speaker 1: when it's just supposed to be your your fun time,

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Speaker 1: your spare time, your weekend, but it becomes more.

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Speaker 3: It's a great question. I like to think of it

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Speaker 3: as a craft or a practice. So I think that

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Speaker 3: a lot of people experience this on their journey. They

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Speaker 3: start just because they're interested in something, and it's like

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Speaker 3: a hobby, and then you do it more and you

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Speaker 3: get better at it, and you get more into it,

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Speaker 3: and then it becomes a craft or a practice. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's actually a really beautiful thing because unlike

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Speaker 3: a job, where you have all of these external pressures

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Speaker 3: and you know you have to maybe do things that

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Speaker 3: you don't want to do because you're in an organization

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Speaker 3: and so on and so forth, with a craft or

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Speaker 3: a practice, or even if it's just a hobby, you

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Speaker 3: have so much agency and freedom to shape how you're

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Speaker 3: going to pursue it. So you get to take this

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Speaker 3: container of something like hunting or archery, and you get

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Speaker 3: to say, here's the ways that I want to pursue it.

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Speaker 3: Here are the goals that I want to work towards,

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Speaker 3: Here are the values that I have as a person,

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Speaker 3: And here's how I think pursuing this this craft is

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Speaker 3: going to help me not only become a better archer

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Speaker 3: a better hunter, but become a better person. And I

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Speaker 3: actually think that's in I think too often we think

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Speaker 3: that excellence is only in the domain of what you're

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Speaker 3: doing for a living. But I actually think I've learned

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Speaker 3: this in reporting on the book a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that the pursuit of excellence is maybe more profound and

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Speaker 3: more satisfying when it's not what you do professionally, because

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Speaker 3: you have so much more agency to shape it exactly

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Speaker 3: how you want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like for a lot of people, they

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Speaker 1: just fall into this by accident somehow, and they don't

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Speaker 1: really give a lot of thought to it. They kind

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Speaker 1: of fall in love with it, as you described, Like

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Speaker 1: they get into something and then they realize they want more,

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Speaker 1: and they go deeper and deeper, and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, five years later or twenty years later, they

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Speaker 1: realize they've been pursuing this thing. They've been trying to

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Speaker 1: become great at it, to develop you know, excellence or

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Speaker 1: whatever might be. If you were to start from ground zero,

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Speaker 1: or if you were to restart that process today and

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Speaker 1: you said, hey, I've been trying to learn to become

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Speaker 1: a better archer. I've been doing it kind of on

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Speaker 1: in a Willy Nilli fashion for the last ten years. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start with a new structure in place,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to try to take Brad Stellber's approach

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Speaker 1: to pursuing this. What's your first step in creating a

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Speaker 1: more structured, thoughtful approach to pursuing excellence in a pursuit.

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Speaker 1: Let's just use archery for this example. I think that

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Speaker 1: kind of lends itself well to this. What's that first

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Speaker 1: step in doing this in a more thoughtful way? First step,

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Speaker 1: I think is what's the goal?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 3: Is the goal to become a better marksman or marxwoman?

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Speaker 3: Is the goal to compete at tournaments?

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Speaker 2: Is the goal?

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Speaker 3: To become an archer that actually hunts? Is the goal

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Speaker 3: to hunt in a way where it is sport? Is

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Speaker 3: the goal to hunt in a way where you're no

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Speaker 3: longer purchasing me except what you kill. I mean, there's

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Speaker 3: so many different ways to think about becoming a better

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Speaker 3: Marx person. So I would start with defining, really clearly

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Speaker 3: what's the goal. And I wouldn't define that based on

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Speaker 3: what Mark is doing, or what Brad's doing, or whatever

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Speaker 3: social media influencer is doing.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't just mimic them.

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Speaker 3: I would step back and say that for each of

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Speaker 3: these possible goals in the sport, what's the process that

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Speaker 3: I'm going to most enjoy and find most satisfying pursuing.

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Speaker 3: So how do I actually want to train? How much

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Speaker 3: time do I have to train? How big of a

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Speaker 3: part of my life do I want this to be?

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Speaker 3: Do I want to have to be outside all the time?

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Speaker 3: Do I want to join an archery club where there's

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Speaker 3: other people in, there's community. So I'd step back and

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Speaker 3: I'd say, I've gotten pretty good at this thing. I've

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Speaker 3: been doing it, you know, willy nilly, As you said,

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Speaker 3: now I want to get more serious. So let me

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Speaker 3: think about all the different goals I could pursue, and

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Speaker 3: then let me envision what pursuing that goal would look like,

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Speaker 3: and let me pick the right one. It's essentially a

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Speaker 3: dilemma that every single alpinis climber faces. There's all these

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Speaker 3: mountains to climb. Well, it's really important to pick the

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Speaker 3: right mountain to climb. It's also really helpful to have

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Speaker 3: a mountain to climb, because if don't have a mountain

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Speaker 3: of climb, you're just kind of aimlessly wandering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what are the most significant goal setting pitfalls that

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Speaker 1: you've come across. I think there's a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: we can probably set goals the wrong way. What are

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Speaker 1: a few that stand out to you?

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Speaker 2: The biggest is just wrote mimicry.

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Speaker 3: So this person killed that size buck, and therefore I

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Speaker 3: want to kill that size buck.

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Speaker 2: Well do you? Maybe you do, but like you need a.

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Speaker 3: Better reason than I saw that person do it and

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Speaker 3: it got my dopamine firing. That's the biggest trap. Another

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Speaker 3: trap is UH doing too much too soon, too early.

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Speaker 3: So like using the inspiration and the motivation of having

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Speaker 3: this enormous goal that gets you really fired up when

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Speaker 3: you're telling your friends about it, or you're journaling about it,

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Speaker 3: or you're thinking about it, but then when you actually

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Speaker 3: start the process of working toward it, it's so overwhelming

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Speaker 3: and so outside of your capabilities that you're just going

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Speaker 3: to flame out and be frustrated all the time. And

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Speaker 3: then I think that there's this nuance that is a

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Speaker 3: third thing that at first is very helpful but then

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Speaker 3: becomes a trap. And this is one of the most

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Speaker 3: popular goal setting frameworks. They're called smart goals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In smarkles are specific, measurable, attainable, relatable, and timely. So

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Speaker 3: for me, a smart goal would be I'm going to

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Speaker 3: lift five hundred and fifty pounds by the end of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, and that would actually be a terrible goal,

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Speaker 3: because I'm far enough along the path of mastery where

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Speaker 3: it's not very predictable what's going to happen to my

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Speaker 3: deadlift next. But if I was an amateur and my

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Speaker 3: goal is I want to deadlift three hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 3: pounds by the end of the year, that would be

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Speaker 3: a great goal. So what often happens is we get

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Speaker 3: this in reverse. So beginners that could benefit from smart goals,

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Speaker 3: from having that accountability and that specificity and that really

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Speaker 3: good closed reward circuit where you're measuring something, they're too loose.

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Speaker 3: They're just like, I just want to be a better hunter.

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Speaker 3: What the hell does that mean? Like be a better hunter? No,

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Speaker 3: Like you need to set a goal that you could

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Speaker 3: actually fail at, like hold yourself accountable. But then what

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Speaker 3: happens is once you've gotten pretty good, and once you've

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Speaker 3: nailed a couple of smart goals, progress becomes much less linear.

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Speaker 2: And if you tell yourself, hey, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, my goal is to go from from P to

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Speaker 3: Q in the alphabet, Well that might take a year,

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Speaker 3: but but that might take three years once you get

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Speaker 3: really good at something. So smart goals work until they

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Speaker 3: get in the way and I think too often more

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Speaker 3: advanced people try to use smart goles when they'd be

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Speaker 3: better off. Just like the goal is to get as

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Speaker 3: good as I can, Like you've already done the early work,

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Speaker 3: the games are going to be much less predictable in

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Speaker 3: more novices and intermediate folks can actually benefit from that

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Speaker 3: tight structure around smart goles. And in the final trap

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Speaker 3: that everyone runs into is the arrival fallacy, and just

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Speaker 3: this notion that if I set a goal and achieve it,

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Speaker 3: then I'm going to be content, you know. So if

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Speaker 3: I just get that size buck, then I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be able to call myself a hunter and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to sleep.

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Speaker 2: Easy for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 3: Well, what ends up happening is you get that size buck,

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Speaker 3: You're happy that night, You wake up the next morning

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Speaker 3: and you're you know, you're hungry for more.

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Speaker 1: So what about goals, Brad, where the outcome is significantly

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Speaker 1: outside of your control, where there's just ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: the variables are beyond you, and in many cases depending

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Speaker 1: on this would be a hunting related goal. But let's

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Speaker 1: say if your goal is to kill your first buck

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Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, you could do everything right

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Speaker 1: and still because so much is outside of your hands

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Speaker 1: when it comes to something like a wild animal and

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Speaker 1: a wild place, you may not succeed. So in that

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Speaker 1: kind of situation where many hunters or anglers or even

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Speaker 1: you know sports, you know folks playing competitive sports, right,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that's outside of your oalm

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Speaker 1: of control too. How do you handle both setting goals

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Speaker 1: and then judging your success on those goals when so

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Speaker 1: much is seemingly outside of your hands.

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Speaker 3: I think that the way to do this is to

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Speaker 3: put yourself in a position to win. And if you

397
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Speaker 3: put yourself in a position to win, then that success

398
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 3: success isn't winning because like you said, whether or not

399
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Speaker 3: you get that buck, it's it's outside of your control.

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00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 3: But if you put yourself in a position to get

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Speaker 3: that buck, and at the start of the hunt you say, hey,

402
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 3: I've prepared, I've executed my process. I'm in a position

403
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Speaker 3: to win, and now you know it's up to fate,

404
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Speaker 3: well then that's great because if you don't get a

405
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Speaker 3: buck that time, but you go out next hunting season

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Speaker 3: and you execute that process like eventually you're going to win.

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Speaker 3: And I think, like this is such a misconception, is

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Speaker 3: that the like the goal is to win, which is true,

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Speaker 3: but you can't control whether or not you win, especially

410
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Speaker 3: in something like hunting. If we're going to define win

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Speaker 3: is like getting the killer or whatever. Yeah, But what

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Speaker 3: you can control is are you in a position to

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Speaker 3: do that? And what any intermedia or advanced hunter is

414
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Speaker 3: going to tell you is that if you put yourself

415
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Speaker 3: in a position to win enough times, eventually you're going

416
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Speaker 3: to get some wins and you start to get a

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Speaker 3: feel for what it's like to be in a position

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Speaker 3: to win. And then the goal, over the course of

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Speaker 3: a hunting season is just to be in that position

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Speaker 3: to win over and over and over again, and maybe

421
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 3: you win sixty percent of the time and that's a

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Speaker 3: great season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I've wrestled with this a lot myself over

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Speaker 1: the years as I've pursued, you know, competence in hunting

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Speaker 1: and archery and all these different things. And something that

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Speaker 1: you write about in this book and you've talked about

427
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Speaker 1: and other people have talked about over the years that's

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Speaker 1: helped me a lot has been this idea of what

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Speaker 1: you call process over outcomes mindset. Can you expand on

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Speaker 1: that a little bit, because I think that's a really

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Speaker 1: helpful way to think about this.

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Speaker 3: Outcomes are generally outside of our control. Whether or not

433
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Speaker 3: we're going to win or lose the race is going

434
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Speaker 3: to depend on who else shows up. Whether or not

435
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Speaker 3: we're going to get the kill is going to depend

436
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 3: on the weather, the wind, and so many factors that

437
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 3: we probably can't even imagine. So we can't control outcomes,

438
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 3: but we can't control our process. So our process is

439
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: our preparation, our training, our study, the individuals that we

440
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 3: go on the journey with, how we carry ourselves when

441
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 3: we're out there, how we compete, our mindsets, our habits,

442
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 3: all those things, and too often we spend a lot

443
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 3: of time thinking about the outcome, dreaming about the buck

444
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: and how we're going to feel when we kill it,

445
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 3: and reading about other people that did it, when that's

446
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 3: just wasted time because it's out of our control. What

447
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 3: we can't control is our process. So do we take

448
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: good care of our equipment, did we train appropriately, did

449
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 3: we study appropriately? Do we come to the hunt with

450
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 3: the right attitudes and mindset? And if we execute on

451
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: our process, that's just how you put yourself in a

452
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 3: position to win. So it's not that outcomes don't matter

453
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 3: like they do matter. It's a thrill to succeed and

454
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 3: to have a goal, and sometimes if you're actually competing,

455
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: like it matters. You know, if you're an angler and

456
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 3: you're at one of these weekends where like they're going

457
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 3: to weigh then the fish that you caught or how

458
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 3: many you caught, like you want to win, it matters,

459
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 3: But you.

460
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: Can't control that. All you can control is your process.

461
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 3: So the more that you can stay rooted in your process,

462
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: the more fulfilling you're going to find the pursuit in

463
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: the craft, and paradoxically, the better chance you give yourself

464
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 3: of attaining your outcomes. The times when I've had the

465
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: best outcomes as an athlete have been the times when

466
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 3: I'm least focused on achieving the outcome and I'm just.

467
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: Completely lost in the process.

468
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: The times when I've struggled as an athlete is when

469
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 3: I spend too much time thinking about whether or not

470
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to hit the lift, I inevitably fail.

471
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: So let's take this one stuff. Let's say, for the

472
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: sake of an example, that I want to become a

473
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: better bow hunter, and one way that I'm going to

474
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: try to pursue that goal is I'm going to set

475
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: a you know, sort of a smart goal that would

476
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 1: force me to get better at my accuracy. So I'm

477
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: thinking out loud here, but let's say maybe my goal

478
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: is that by this coming October I will be able

479
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: to accurately hit a bullseye, you know, nine times out

480
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: of ten at one hundred yards, which is a really,

481
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 1: really far shot. So that would really really stretch my

482
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: skills as an archer. Therefore, when I'm actually hunting at

483
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: forty yards, it feels like a slam dunk. Maybe that's

484
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: my goal. And with that goal in mind, how would

485
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: you go about setting up a process or a system

486
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: of you know, training and preparing to reach that goal

487
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: so we can actually do that in a smart way.

488
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: I think it's I think James clear someone said something

489
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: on the lines of like, we don't rise to the

490
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: level of our goals, we fall to the level of

491
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: our systems, something along those lines, And I'm curious how

492
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: you would build a system that we could fall back

493
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: on that would help us reach that big goal.

494
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is like this is training one

495
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 3: on one and I love it because to me, where

496
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 3: my background is really in athletics, this is so second nature,

497
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: But I think for outdoors people like, maybe it's not

498
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 3: so second nature, because there's like a wildness to your

499
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: sport that sometimes I think is like very mystical and

500
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 3: magical and incredible, and that's why it's so addictive. But

501
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: I think there's a kind of rigor that you could

502
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: bring to it too that is perhaps helpful, and that's

503
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 3: what you're getting out. So what I would say is like,

504
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: all right, well, how are you going to do that?

505
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: So how many days a week are you going to

506
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: go to the range, or if you're fortunate and you

507
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 3: can do this at home because you've got a lot

508
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: of land, Like how are you going to set up

509
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 3: target practice? And then you can't just sit from one

510
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: hundred yards away and start shooting. You need to start

511
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: at fifteen yards or twenty yards. And you probably need

512
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: to have some over distance days too, where you're shooting

513
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 3: from one hundred and forty yards, And you need to

514
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: have some days where you're shooting really quick and you're

515
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: trying to get ten shots off in forty seconds or

516
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: whatever it is, because you're stressed the system that way.

517
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: You probably want.

518
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: Other days where you're only taking ten shots and you're

519
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: putting six minutes between each shot because you're really trying

520
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 3: to replicate being on a hunt where you have to

521
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: find your target, calm yourself, take that deep breath. You

522
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 3: might actually break it down. You might say a huge

523
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: part of this is being steady and breathing. So you

524
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: might have a day where you're not even holding your

525
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: bow and you're just doing breath work. So is something

526
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: as simple is hitting a target from one hundred miles away.

527
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 3: Excuse me, that'd be really hard from one hundred yards away.

528
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: Something as simple as hitting a target from one hundred

529
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 3: yards away, It really is as simple and as hard

530
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: as that. But then you have to break it down

531
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: into all the component parts and then find ways to

532
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: work those parts. And I can't tell you what any

533
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: individual's training program is going to be like, but I

534
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 3: can assure you it's not just going to be firing

535
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: at a target from one hundred yards over and over again.

536
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 3: They'll be over distance, they'll be under distance, they'll be

537
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: breath work, they'll be speed work, they'll be patience, so

538
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 3: on and so forth.

539
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: So related to this, then you write about this kind

540
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: of juxtaposition between consistency and intensity in your book, and

541
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to expand a little bit on

542
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: that and how you think about those two parts of

543
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: any kind of training regimen or or you know, growth

544
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: towards some type of excellence. How do you what's more

545
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: important or how do you know, have both of those

546
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: within your life?

547
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: So intensity are those those training days or those competition

548
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 3: days where you're just going to the well? I call

549
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 3: it like you go see God. You know, it's a

550
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: mystical experience because you are just giving everything that you have.

551
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: You can't do that very frequently because you just burn

552
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: yourself out, like the system can only tolerate so many

553
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: days of going to the well. And I think what

554
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: often happens is that we mistake intensity as the driver

555
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: of excellence when it's actually consistency. It's how you show

556
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: up day in and day out, and not necessarily what

557
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: you do on your magical great days, but what you

558
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: do on your average days, and even what you do

559
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: on your bad days, because you're making these small deposits

560
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: in the bank that compound over time. And what's fascinating

561
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 3: is that the more consistent you are, the better you

562
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: get a consistency, the higher you're ceiling for intensity becomes

563
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: so if you're brand new to hunting and you try

564
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: to go out on a thirty day backpacking, you know hunt,

565
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 3: you're never going to be able to do that, Like

566
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 3: you're going to crash and burn and have a miserable experience.

567
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: But if you've built up to that consistently over five

568
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: years or a decade, your capacity to tolerate that intensity

569
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 3: is so much higher. So too often people start with

570
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: intensity because it's the bright and shiny object and it's

571
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: the heroic day that they want to write home and

572
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: tell their friends about one. What we need to do

573
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: is we need to start with insistency. We need to

574
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: build brick by brick by brick, and then that allows

575
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: us to have the intense days. And that's true in training,

576
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: and that's that's true in performance time.

577
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've got a little sticky note here in my

578
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: computer monitor and it says you'll appreciate appreciate this. It

579
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: says writing a page a day doesn't sound like much,

580
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: but if you do it every day, you'll write a

581
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: book a year. That's the key consistency. People who do

582
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: great things don't get a lot done every day. They

583
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: get something done rather than nothing truer words have not

584
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: been spoken. I don't think right there, I love that.

585
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: I mean, the goal isn't to be hero of the

586
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: day or hero of the week. The goal is to

587
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: have a heroic decade. And those two things look very different.

588
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: And the challenge is we're very myopic creatures. We're very

589
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: short terms. So we see the thrill of writing the

590
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: manuscript in one day or the you know, ten days

591
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: to a new year program, whatever the equivalent might be

592
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 3: in in hunting or archery, and we just cycle from

593
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: again from intense fad to intense fad instead of just

594
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: like becoming known for our consistency. I mean, if you

595
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: take one thing away from this this this conversation as

596
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 3: a listener, like become known for your consistency. And if

597
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: you become known for your consistency, people are going to

598
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: respect you and you're going to get very damn good

599
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: at whatever it is that you do.

600
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I'm gonna throw a curveball at you though,

601
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: because you throw a little bit of a curveball at

602
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: the reader. As you're exploring this topic, we hear about

603
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: the importance of consistency, But then right after that you

604
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: tell us that you know this myth or this idea

605
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: of like trying to get just one percent better every day,

606
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: which sounds a whole lot like consistency to me. You

607
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: say that, maybe that's a little bit of a myth,

608
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: or maybe we're thinking about things the wrong way. If

609
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: we're trying to do that just a little bit one

610
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: percent better day, one percent better to day. Why why

611
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: is that or why is the one percent a day thing?

612
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit misleading?

613
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: It's great as a mindset because it's a mindset. It's

614
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: exactly what you said. It's like, it's consistency. You don't

615
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: have to hit home runs right, just show up and

616
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: put the ball in play. And it's great when you're

617
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: a beginner or even when you're intermediate, because when you're

618
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: a beginner or you're intermediate, you actually do get one

619
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: percent better every day. You might get one hundred percent

620
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: better every day if you're brand new at something, But

621
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: once you get pretty good, once you've been doing something

622
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: for a year or a couple of years or a decade,

623
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: you don't get one percent better every day. I mean,

624
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: you mark, if you got one percent better every day

625
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: as a hunter, you'd probably at this point be the

626
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: best hunter to ever live.

627
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: That motivation has to switch.

628
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: And if you get addicted to those tangible performance gains,

629
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 3: you're going to get to about seventy or eighty percent

630
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: of as good as you could be, and then you're

631
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 3: going to flame out. To me, all the interesting stuff

632
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: happens when you stop getting one percent better every day,

633
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 3: because that's when you're really good. And this is another

634
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: core component of the book and hopefully this conversation is

635
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: that when you're new to something, the motivation to come

636
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: back is very much driven by those concrete incremental progress gains,

637
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: and they're great and you should strive for them. Once

638
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: you get good at something, it's got to switch. The

639
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: drive has to be more about curiosity and love for

640
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: the pursuit and intimacy and how it feels in the

641
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: community that you do it with and what you're learning

642
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: about yourself. Because I'll take micraft, when I was brand

643
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: new to powerlifting, I got ten percent better every week.

644
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 3: I went from deadlifting one hundred thirty five pounds to

645
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: two hundred and twenty five pounds and three months you

646
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: do the math, that's a lot percent better.

647
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: Every day.

648
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: I pulled five hundred twenty pounds a year and a

649
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: half ago, and since then, I've pulled five hundred thirty

650
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: pounds once. That's a lot less than one percent better

651
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: every day. That's like a tenth of a percent better

652
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: every day. So if I was still addicted to those

653
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: early performance gains, I wouldn't be training anymore because they're

654
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: just not going to happen.

655
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm too good.

656
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: But now when I go to the gym, I'm actually

657
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: not driven by those incremental gains. What I'm driven by

658
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 3: is a love for the sport, how the bar feels

659
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: when I take tension out of it, how I can

660
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: make these small subtle changes to how I brace and

661
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: the impact that has, And that's where the motivation comes from.

662
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 3: And I'm sure the same thing is true as an

663
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: outdoors men and outdoors women. As a hunter is early

664
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 3: on when you're brand new to the sport, like it's

665
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 3: thrilling because you are getting so much better, and then

666
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: you get really good, like you got.

667
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: To find a different, a different source of motivation.

668
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 3: So that's my qualm with the get one percent better

669
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: every day, It's just not true because if it was,

670
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: everyone would be world class at everything within ten years.

671
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: And it's not how it works.

672
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: Now what does that mean for someone who's in that

673
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: situation though, Because there's what you describe, which is, you know,

674
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: fy for love of the game, right, you find your

675
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: love of the game and the process and all that.

676
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: But that sounds from one perspective, it sounds like settling

677
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: to be stuck at that plateau. So what if someone's like, well,

678
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to be stuck at that plateau? How

679
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: do I break through that plateau to some other next level?

680
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 1: What do you say to that person?

681
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to have the mindset of one percent

682
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: better every day without being addicted to the observable gains

683
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: because the actual observable gains often trail the effort that

684
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: you put in, and once you get really good, it

685
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: gets less predictable and more magical. So you don't know

686
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: when the breakthrough is going to occur. But if you

687
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: keeping the stone and you have a good process and

688
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 3: you do it with integrity, odds are there are breakthroughs

689
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: that are going to happen. You just can't predict when,

690
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 3: and they're not going to be linear. So the mindset

691
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: of consistency in getting one percent better every day and

692
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 3: showing up and doing the work that holds. But the

693
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 3: motivation to keep showing up, it's got to come from

694
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: the intrinsic reward of how how you feel doing the

695
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: thing versus the tangible results that you get. The example

696
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: in the book I gave is from Lane Norton, who

697
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: is a world champion powerlifter, and it took him ten

698
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: years to move his deadlift from seven hundred ten pounds

699
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: to seven hundred and twenty three pounds, ten years to

700
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 3: gain thirteen pounds. Now, if he was addicted to getting

701
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: one percent better every day, he would ac quit.

702
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: But he showed up.

703
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: He was consistent is you know, and disciplined as all

704
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: can be. But what kept him coming back to the

705
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: pursuit was like the mystery.

706
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: Of it all.

707
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: In every great crafts person, whether you're an athlete, whether

708
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: you're a surgeon, whether you're a marksman, every great crist person,

709
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: at some point in their journey, it's got to be

710
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: about curiosity, in discovery, in the satisfaction and fulfillment that

711
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: you get from just going deeper and deeper and deeper,

712
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: and then the results they just take care of themselves.

713
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 3: And sometimes it takes a year, sometimes it takes a decade,

714
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: but it doesn't really matter, because what's driving you to

715
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: come back is the love of the game.

716
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, one thing that does seem to help structure.

717
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: I guess some of that if you have the love

718
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: of the game, that gives you some of the motivation

719
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: to keep going. But then there's you mentioned that a

720
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: second ago, there's like the discipline or the routines that

721
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: you can build that keeped you on that track. You

722
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: quoted Venus Williams saying, you know something along the lines of,

723
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, discipline is freedom, and I know Jocko Willing

724
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: says something pretty similar to that, discipline equals freedom, I

725
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: think is his version. Can you expand a little bit

726
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: on what that looks like on how someone could put

727
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: that into practice in pursuit of something like this and why,

728
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: you know, dicipline and or routines, which I think are

729
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: just kind of like systematizing discipline, how that can help us,

730
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, get better, and how that tangibly you know,

731
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: could be done. I know you've looked into this a lot,

732
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: You've talked to many different people that have figured out

733
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: kind of the science of building routines and habits. What

734
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: stands out to on that front.

735
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 3: I love this topic so much, so let's start with

736
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 3: a little philosophy lesson. So philosophers talk about two kinds

737
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: of freedom, negative freedom and positive freedom. Negative freedom is

738
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: freedom from constraints, so I'm free from going to bad

739
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: at a certain time. I'm free from eating a certain way.

740
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 3: I'm free from having to make a specific choice, so

741
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 3: I can just do whatever I want, anything goes. Those

742
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: are negative freedoms. They also talk about positive freedom. In

743
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 3: positive freedom is freedom to become your best self to

744
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: do something. And in order to have positive freedom, in

745
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: order to have the freedom to become the best outdoors

746
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 3: person you can be, you often have to sacrific I

747
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: some negative freedoms. You have to put some constraints on yourself.

748
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 3: Those constraints could be I'm going to drink less during

749
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: the week. I'm going to go to bed at nine

750
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: thirty a pm so that I can wake up at

751
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: five am to get a practice session in or to train.

752
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: I'm going to limit the AI digital slot that I

753
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 3: consume because it really makes me impatient and I lose focus,

754
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: and then that actually affects me as a hunter because

755
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 3: I'm antsy all the time.

756
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 2: So in order to be disciplined.

757
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: We often have to put self imposed rules and constraints

758
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: on ourselves, so we're sacrificing negative freedoms.

759
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not free to go to bed whenever

760
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 2: I want.

761
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 3: I'm not free from constraints on needing a certain way

762
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: for the positive freedom to be the best writer I

763
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: can be, the best athlete I can be, in the

764
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: case of a listener, the best hunter you can be.

765
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: So that's the first thing i'd say.

766
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: The second thing that I would say is that discipline

767
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: is not something that is temperamental. I firmly believe we're

768
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 3: not born with discipline or without it. It's a muscle,

769
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: and it really also is contingent on the systems.

770
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: And routines around us.

771
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 3: And the example that I want to give here because

772
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: I think it's such a great one is a professional athlete.

773
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: So we often look at professional athletes and we say,

774
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 3: my god, are they discipline? And to some extent, they are,

775
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: But they're also in a system where everything is structured

776
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 3: every meal, every recovery session, every practice, every bedtime, every game,

777
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: every warm up, So they're in a system that supports

778
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 3: that discipline. And what ends up happening when you take

779
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 3: so many of these athletes outside of the system is

780
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: they blow up their lives. And that just shows that

781
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: it's not that they have this intrinsic discipline within them,

782
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 3: it's that they had a system around them that allowed

783
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: them to be disciplined.

784
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 2: So most listeners here aren't professional athletes.

785
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: But what we can take from that is in our

786
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 3: own lives, we can build those systems, those routines, those rituals,

787
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: those constraints that then allow us to be disciplined. And

788
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: I think good places to start are just around like

789
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 3: the fundamentals. So what are your self imposed rules on

790
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: your nutrition? I am not a big believer in super

791
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 3: rigid diets, but I also think that just existing in

792
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 3: the modern food environment is going to make you sick

793
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 3: because the modern food environment is so obesigenic it's not

794
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: good for you. So I've yet to meet a healthy

795
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 3: high performer that doesn't have some kind of system for

796
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 3: how they eat what. Those systems are completely different based

797
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 3: on the person, but like some.

798
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: Kind of constraints.

799
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I live in Western Carolina, Okay, if I

800
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: didn't have constraints, I would be very unhealthy because I

801
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: can't drive half a mile without two barbecues and four Bojangles.

802
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: So my rule is I only eat that stuff once

803
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: a week. Like, that's a constraint. Constraints around sleep, you know,

804
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: are you going to go to bed when you feel tired?

805
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: Are you going to push to keep watching Netflix? That's

806
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: a constraint. Constraints around training. Like a self imposed rule

807
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: is that I'm going to show up to train regardless

808
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: of how i feel unless I'm really sick, and I'm

809
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 3: going to at least get started, and if after ten

810
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: minutes I still feel like shit, I'm going to shut

811
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 3: it down.

812
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: But like, that's a rule.

813
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: So I think, without becoming too rigid of a person,

814
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: have some constraints, have some rules. That's really what discipline is.

815
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: Discipline is not this chest thumping Look how tough I am.

816
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 3: I need a hype speech every morning. Discipline is just

817
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: having a goal and saying here of the things I

818
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 3: need to do to accomplish that goal, and I'm going

819
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: to put the constraints and systems in my life to

820
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: allow me to do that.

821
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: How about habits, like trying to create This is very

822
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: adjacent to what you're describing, But what if I'm trying

823
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: to develop one of these systems, and we'll call it

824
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: a habit to do one of these positive things that

825
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: will lead me towards my goal. So we'll just say

826
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: I want to because of my one hundred yard goal.

827
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: Right With archery, maybe the thing is like, Okay, I

828
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: need to shoot every single day. I want to develop

829
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: a daily archery habit. But for years I've been saying that,

830
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: and I never have time. I get busy, and this

831
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: thing happens, and that thing happens, and I've just never

832
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: stuck to it. What are some of the things that

833
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: you've found, Brad, that have actually helped you develop and

834
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: stick to habits that last. Then make a difference.

835
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 3: All Right, the first thing is I'm going to I'm

836
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: gonna add some nuance to what I just said. I

837
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 3: just talked about rules. But the first thing I'd say

838
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: is flexibility. So there's research that shows that if you

839
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: have a habit like I'm going to shoot every day,

840
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: you're much less likely to stick to it. Then if

841
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: you say I'm going to shoot five to seven days

842
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: a week, because five to seven days a week allows

843
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: for the messiness of life to get in the way,

844
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: whereas if you're all or nothing and the messiness of

845
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: life happens. Then you just quit and you're like, ah, crap,

846
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 3: you know, didn't get my seven days.

847
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: What the hell? I guess this isn't going to be

848
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: the year.

849
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: So have a really high ceiling or really high standard,

850
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 3: but also have a floor that allows for some flexibility.

851
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 2: That's the first thing i'd say.

852
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 3: The second thing I'd say is be realistic with when

853
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: in the day or when in the week it actually

854
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: makes sense for you to do it. If you've got

855
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: you know, young kids at home, in a loving relationship

856
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: with your wife or your husband, in your time to

857
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 3: practice is in the evening, It's probably not going to

858
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: work out because like you're going to have your kids

859
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: that are gonna have activities and they're going to want you,

860
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: and your your wife or husband's gonna want to eat

861
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: dinner with you. So like, maybe you actually need to

862
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 3: shoot earlier in the morning. And if you're gonna shoot

863
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: earlier in the morning, then maybe you gotta get upstream

864
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: of that and actually not have those two beers the

865
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: night before so that you.

866
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: Can wake up to shoot earlier in the morning.

867
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: So I think, like we often think about the thing

868
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: we want to do, and we don't think about the

869
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: environment or the ecosystem around us. And I think when

870
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: it comes to developing a habit, having some flexibility, and

871
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: then developing the ecosystem around us, that kind of pulls

872
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 3: us in the direction of that habit goes a long way.

873
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: And then just starting really small. So if you want

874
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: to shoot every day, that's great, but maybe it's every

875
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: day for ten minutes, and then once you stick to that, well,

876
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 3: then going from ten to fifteen minutes as it much

877
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 3: not Once you're doing fifteen minutes, fifteen to twenty five

878
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 3: is not much, and before you know it, you're doing

879
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 3: a forty five minute session every day.

880
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: So starting really small.

881
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: And then I would also say just like removing friction

882
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: as much as possible. So if there's a way to

883
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: find a range that's on the way to your work

884
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 3: so you don't have to drive out of the way,

885
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: great do that. If there's a way to do it

886
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 3: in your backyard, maybe that removes friction. But actually maybe

887
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: that causes friction because then you're isolated, you're doing it alone,

888
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: and maybe the accountability of going to a range and

889
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: seeing the same familiar faces that show up at the

890
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 3: same time as you is actually the thing that makes

891
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: sense that's going to be individual but getting really clear

892
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: on like all the inputs that lead to that desired

893
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 3: behavior and trying to remove friction away from those inputs.

894
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: So if I were to continue down this path further

895
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: and I'm pursuing this goal of getting better at this thing,

896
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: pursuing excellence and archery, will say or whatever, I'm going

897
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: to build these routines, I'm gonna build these habits, I'm

898
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: gonna have some discipline, I'm going to have these goals.

899
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: There seems to be an inevitable point that we all

900
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: reach in whatever our pursuit is where the shiny object

901
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: effect comes into play. Where you hear about this new

902
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: supplement or this new bow or there's this fancy new

903
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: mud water ag one creating whatever that's going to all

904
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, twenty x your performance. You

905
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: call this complexity. I think, you know, kind of simplifying

906
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here, the way that there's all

907
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: these different fancy strategies or whizbang theories or gizmos or

908
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: gadgets that people want to say will lead to excellence

909
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: or success. You mentioned you call this complexity, and you

910
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: wrote here that complexity is a way to avoid facing

911
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,959
Speaker 1: the reality that what really matters for progress and most

912
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: endeavors is simply showing up and doing the work. And

913
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: then a little bit later you say, people love bright

914
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: and shiny objects. But the truth is that the way

915
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: you improve in anything is by eliminating distractions, prioritizing the fundamentals,

916
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: and executing them with ruthless efficiency. Can you expand on

917
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: how we can do that ourselves? Because there's all of

918
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: these different people sing in, you know, the praises of

919
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: this product or this new fad or this new idea

920
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: that's going to fix it all for us. How do

921
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: we deal with that when we are just barraged by

922
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: this all day every day.

923
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: The secret is there is no secret.

924
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: You got to just do the fucking work, man or

925
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 3: woman like that's it. And I think that okay, So

926
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: here's my general heuristic for this, all right, When you

927
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: look at a program to get good at.

928
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: Anything, So we're going to keep using this archery example.

929
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: Ninety percent of the programs out there on the internet

930
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: are are just absolute garbage being peddled by grifters and charlatans.

931
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 2: Ten percent are probably great. Within those ten percent.

932
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: There's probably multiple variations of ways to do it, and

933
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: you just got to pick one. You got to pick

934
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 3: the one that makes the most sense for you, that

935
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 3: you're most interested in it, that's going to fit your lifestyle.

936
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: And then once you've picked that program, your job is

937
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: to put blinders on and to execute on your program

938
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: and to ignore the bright and shiny objects. And if

939
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: anyone tells you they've got the one thing, that is

940
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: like the ultimate sign to run the opposite direction.

941
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: Now I am not. I don't want to be like.

942
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 3: Such a purist where people are like this guy's a

943
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: curmudgety old person, because I'm only forty, so I'm not

944
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 3: even that old to be this curmudgeony. There's nothing wrong

945
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 3: with getting the new bow, you know, if that's going

946
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 3: to excite you and light you up and it's actually

947
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: got like some cool carbon fiber or whatever the technology is, like,

948
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: that's great. But just because you got the new bow

949
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you've got to stop showing up at

950
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: six am to the range to work it out, you know,

951
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 3: getting a new pair of shoes or getting the new

952
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 3: special deadlift bar. Like that stuff's great, Like it's fun,

953
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 3: it's interesting. If you can afford it, by all means

954
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 3: do it. But if you're getting a new thing every

955
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: month or every quarter, then you're probably majoring in the

956
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: minors and you're looking for this solution to your problem

957
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 3: that is outside of just like the work that you

958
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: have to do.

959
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: So I don't know if I.

960
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 3: Think about my reporting and like how the role of

961
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: like these new brighton shiny aptes come in. I think

962
00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: if you fuck around with those kinds of things like

963
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: once or twice a year, that's fine. But if it's

964
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: any more of that, then I think it's just becoming

965
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: a distraction.

966
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: There's another I keep on having these these like temptations

967
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: when you're on this kind of path, I feel that

968
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: there's there's typical common temptations that you that arise. And

969
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: another one of those is, and I again have experienced

970
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: this in my own life, is obsession is taking this

971
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: pursuit of excellence and taking it really, really, really far.

972
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,479
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this a little bit years

973
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: ago when we discussed the passion paradox and some of

974
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: the things you wrote about in those first two books

975
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: of yours. I've continued to talk to other people about

976
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: this because of course, you know, anything, you can become

977
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: obsessed with hunting, fishing, all these outdoor pursuits. They absolutely

978
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: that happens within our world too. There's a whole lot

979
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: of dopamine people are chasing, There's a whole lot of

980
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: comparison culture go that people can kind of mistakenly chase.

981
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: That all of these things can lead you to just

982
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: going very very very deep sometimes in the in, you know,

983
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: to the to the destruction of other things on the

984
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: on the edges of that collateral damage. So I'm curious

985
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: about how you think now about this idea of of

986
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: single minded pursuit for something all the way deep, deep, deep,

987
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: deep versus range. You know, there has been some research

988
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: and a lot of people talking about maybe there's there's

989
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: something to be said about having some range and diversity

990
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: within what you pursue. Too. Where's your head at these

991
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: days when it comes to those that kind of echotomy

992
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: there all right.

993
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: Where my head is at is to think about having

994
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: your identity be like a house. And I'll explain what

995
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 3: I mean. If you have a house that only has

996
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 3: one room in it, and that one room catches fire

997
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 3: or floods, it's going to be very disorienting. You're gonna

998
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 3: have to move out of your house. Okay, you're not

999
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: gonna know what to do next. You might be homeless

1000
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: for a period of time. If you've got a house

1001
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: that has multiple rooms in it, in one room catches

1002
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: fire or floods, you can go seek refuge in the

1003
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 3: other rooms while you work out the fire of the flood,

1004
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: while you repair the damage. And we should think about

1005
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 3: our identities the same way. So we want to build

1006
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: an identity house that has more than one room. So

1007
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 3: maybe the biggest room in your identity house is an

1008
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: angler or an outdoorsman.

1009
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: But if that's the only room.

1010
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 3: In your identity house, then it actually makes you really

1011
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: fragile because when things don't go your way in the sport,

1012
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: when you go through a rough patch, you're not going

1013
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: to know who you are. So you want to have

1014
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: other rooms in your identity house. What are some other rooms? Husband, wife, dad, mom, coach, athlete,

1015
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 3: creative reader, person who loves coffee, German shepherd, enthusiast. Doesn't

1016
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 3: matter what the rooms are. You just want to make

1017
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: sure that you have more than one. And I'm not

1018
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 3: arguing for balance. I think balance is bullshit. At least

1019
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 3: this is popular conceived. I think if you want to

1020
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 3: be excellent, like my definition of excellence, right, it's like

1021
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: carrying deeply and giving something you're all. You can't do

1022
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 3: that and be balanced. So it's not to say that

1023
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: you have to spend the same amount of time and

1024
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: energy in each room in the house. It's not to

1025
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: say that the rooms have to be the same size.

1026
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 3: You just have to have more than one and you

1027
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: want to make sure that none of the important rooms

1028
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 3: get moldy. So maybe you're in a season where you're

1029
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: going all in to be a competitive archer. Well you

1030
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: want to ask yourself, what's the minimum effective dose that

1031
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 3: I need to spend in my marriage room to make

1032
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: sure that room doesn't get moldy and I don't blow

1033
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 3: up my marriage. What's the minimum effective dose of community

1034
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 3: involvement so I can stay in touch with the actual

1035
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 3: people around me and not start to feel isolated and lonely.

1036
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 3: What's the minimum effective dose for my health? Because I

1037
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 3: can imagine that you get like so into this thing,

1038
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: you let your health go to shit. Well that's not good.

1039
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: That's not going to actually help you in the long

1040
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 3: term be a better archer. So think of what are

1041
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 3: the core rooms in your identity house, and then what

1042
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 3: are the minimum effective doses that each of those rooms need,

1043
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 3: not so that you're always emphasizing everything, but just so

1044
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: that they're there for you when you need them while

1045
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 3: you pursue the main thing.

1046
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: And also there's a seasonality to life.

1047
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: In the reporting on this book, I found time and

1048
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: time again that when you look at the really like successful,

1049
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: high performing people who are highly filled and satisfied too,

1050
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 3: so they're not miserable. What I found is that when

1051
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: you zoom in on any one moment of their life,

1052
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: they don't look very balanced. They're like all in on

1053
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 3: one or two things. But when you zoom out and

1054
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: you look across their whole life, they actually do look

1055
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 3: pretty balanced. So they have different seasons for emphasizing different things.

1056
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: And what they've gotten really good about is even when

1057
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 3: they're emphasizing one thing, they make sure that they spend

1058
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 3: just enough time in those other rooms in the house

1059
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 3: so that in other seasons of life those rooms are

1060
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: still available to them.

1061
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 1: So I feel like, right next door to this idea

1062
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: is another I guess one of these pitfalls on the journey,

1063
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: which is you know is you go down this line

1064
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: and you navigate balance and obsession and all of this,

1065
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: there can be this point where, and especially if you're

1066
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: really focused on outcomes with those goals tied to these things.

1067
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of folks in pursuit of

1068
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: greatness or mastery or excellence of some kind of pursuit

1069
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: eventually can get to the point where you start losing

1070
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: the fun of it, you start losing the joy in it.

1071
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: I talked to your buddy Steve about this in his

1072
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 1: book that came out last year about this. I certainly

1073
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: have experienced this with you know, twenty years ago, I said, Hey,

1074
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to really figure out this deer hunting thing.

1075
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: And then I went deeper and deeper and deeper and

1076
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: deeper until I became obsessed with it. And all that

1077
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 1: mattered was am I going to, you know, have this

1078
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 1: level success on this you know, consistent basis, et cetera.

1079
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: And it got to the point where I was out

1080
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: there doing the thing that supposedly dreamed of doing and

1081
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: being miserable doing it. And so over the last two

1082
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: to four or five years, I've been resetting what my

1083
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: relationship is with hunting and how I measure success and

1084
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and all

1085
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: of that. And you wrote about this in your book.

1086
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: You've got a whole chapter devoted to joy, and I

1087
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: love the fact that that was in there, and it's

1088
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: in the towards the end too, which I thought was

1089
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: the appropriate place to kind of start wrapping this whole

1090
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: topic up. So I'd love for you to expand on

1091
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,959
Speaker 1: that a little bit from your perspective and why that's

1092
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: so important. Why is joy important to excellence and getting

1093
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: good at something.

1094
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 3: Because having fun is like the greatest competitive advantage there is.

1095
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: If you're not having fun, you're not going to last

1096
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 3: very long and you're not going to get the best

1097
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 3: out of yourself. So I think this is a real

1098
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 3: misnomer that is important to address. It's why I addressed

1099
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 3: it as in a whole chapter in the book, and

1100
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 3: we'll address it in brief here. I think what happens

1101
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 3: is people hear about excellence or greatness, and we talk

1102
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 3: about discipline, and we talk about consistency, and then we

1103
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: talk about some like a David Goggins character who is

1104
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: a badass to the core and who's very much fueled

1105
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: by like anger, chip on your shoulder doesn't appear to

1106
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 3: have a lot of joy in the pursuit, and people

1107
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: think that, like, that's what it takes to be great.

1108
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 3: You just have to be angry all the time, and

1109
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 3: you got to be so obsessed. And what I found

1110
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 3: in the reporting on that book is that people who

1111
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 3: are world class at what they do, not world class

1112
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: motivational speakers on the Internet, but actually world class at

1113
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 3: what they do, they're not angry at all. They love

1114
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 3: what they do. They have so much fun. They laugh,

1115
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: they smile. Look at Steph Curry just slay everyone in

1116
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 3: the NBA at age thirty seven with a.

1117
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: Smile on his face.

1118
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan, the player who is known for having the

1119
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 3: most fierce, ferocious intensity, would stick his tongue out this primal,

1120
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: joyous act when he was dunking a basketball. So I'm

1121
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: not here to bad mouth David Goggins and say that

1122
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: it's not important to have intensity. What I'm here to

1123
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 3: say is the intensity and joy they're not opposites, right,

1124
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: They can coexist. You can be that fiercely disciplined, driven

1125
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 3: Goggins badass and have a great time while you do

1126
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 3: the thing. And I think that the pursuit of excellence

1127
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: requires that, because if you don't have a great time,

1128
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: eventually you're going to burn out. I mean, goggins is

1129
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 3: an alien right, but most people they can't just be

1130
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: angry all the time. Eventually you're going to burn out.

1131
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 3: So what I have found is that the way to

1132
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 3: take something all the way is to do it in

1133
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 3: a way where you're serious, and you are working hard,

1134
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 3: and you are pushing yourself and you are making yourself

1135
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: uncomfortable and you're doing hard things, and if you can't

1136
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 3: smile while you're doing it, then you probably need to

1137
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 3: adjust your process to be able to smile. And oftentimes

1138
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 3: that comes down to the people you have around you,

1139
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 3: the goals that you set, and those two things go

1140
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: like such a long way.

1141
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: And we all go through it. I mean I've gone

1142
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: through it.

1143
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 3: Like when when the craft loses its joy, that's not

1144
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 3: a problem with the craft.

1145
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 2: That's a problem with how I'm approaching it. I'm not naive.

1146
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 3: This isn't let's all hold hands in sing Kumbaya and

1147
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 3: live in a utopia.

1148
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1149
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 3: There are days that are really freaking tedious. There are

1150
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 3: months that are tedious, But the totality of the pursuits,

1151
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: the totality of the path ought to give you some

1152
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 3: deep joy and some deep satisfaction, and if not, then

1153
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: you better evaluate how you're doing it lest you won't

1154
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 3: last very long.

1155
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, are there any I don't want to I don't

1156
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: want to say this. I was gonna say, are there

1157
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: any tricks? And the whole point of your book is

1158
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: really there are no tricks. But are there any specific,

1159
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: other tangible ways to foster joy in your pursuit of excellence?

1160
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: I guess you mentioned one that being like surround yourself

1161
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: with people, but is there any Are there any other

1162
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: tangible ways we can put that into action kind of

1163
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: proactively so that it's not that we reach and hit

1164
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: this hard wall and like, oh my god, I've lost

1165
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: the joy and now it's an emergency, but instead build

1166
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: it in now.

1167
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: I think that take the work seriously. But be able

1168
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: to laugh at yourself.

1169
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 3: So when you have airs or a shitty training session,

1170
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 3: or a bad hunt or a bad day at the range,

1171
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: like you got to be able to laugh at yourself,

1172
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: like make fun of yourself. It goes such a long

1173
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: way to make fun of yourself, be around young people

1174
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: to the extent that you can. I know this is

1175
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 3: something that you've written about a little bit on the

1176
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: innerwebs that like when you go hunting with your kids,

1177
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 3: seems like I'm saying this from Afar, like that rekindles

1178
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 3: some joy because like you're experiencing it like through their

1179
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 3: eyes who are doing this for the first time, and

1180
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 3: the excitement and the exhilaration and the thrill.

1181
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: Well, guess what.

1182
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 3: The people that I studied for this book that are

1183
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 3: a little bit older in their pursuit, they're always training

1184
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 3: with people that are younger than them because like there's

1185
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 3: this youthful energy you can't help but have that be contagious.

1186
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 3: I think it's also really important to identify the things

1187
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 3: that kill joy. I call them like joy vampires, and

1188
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 3: to try to eliminate them. So if you've gotten really

1189
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: good at hunting and now you're guiding all these trips

1190
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 3: and suddenly you're spending your whole day in your inbox

1191
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: because people are canceling and people are saying that they

1192
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 3: have this dietary restriction and all this stuff before your trip,

1193
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 3: and you're not enjoying it anymore, Maybe you need to

1194
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: scale down your business and instead of leading forty eight

1195
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 3: hunts a year, you only should lead fifteen. I don't

1196
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 3: know what the answer is, but like identify the joykillers

1197
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 3: because every pursuit has them, and then try to eliminate them.

1198
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: Those would be some concrete ways to help.

1199
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are great. Idea is I've got one other

1200
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: joy killer which might seem wildly out of left field

1201
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,479
Speaker 1: to most people listening to this podcast and ostensibly coming

1202
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: here to learn about how to become a better hunter

1203
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: or archer or something like that, but it's a set

1204
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: of issues that I think kind of hangs over everything

1205
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: we do today, whether you're talking about hunting or weightlifting,

1206
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: or training or working or having relationships or anything. It's

1207
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: been something that's been on my mind a lot over

1208
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: the last three to six months, as I've been more

1209
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: longer in that, as I've been wrestling with this. It's

1210
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: something that you call I love the way you coin this,

1211
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: you call it Internet brain or you've also discussed kind

1212
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: of an offshoot of that, being like algorithmic mass distraction.

1213
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: I would love for you to share with me a

1214
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: little bit of your thoughts on how all of today's

1215
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: technology and social media and everything that comes along with

1216
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: that is skewering the way we see the world, the

1217
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: way our attention is focused, the way we have relationships

1218
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: with people. I know this seems kind of out of

1219
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: left field on a podcast like this, but I do

1220
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: feel like it is impacting our joy and our satisfaction

1221
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: and how we engage with these pursuits. I'd love to

1222
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: get your take on that, because I think you've got

1223
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: some really worthwhile thoughts on it.

1224
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:46,479
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark.

1225
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 3: I like this topic because it's an important one. It

1226
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 3: affects all of us. Internet brain is essentially what happens

1227
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 3: when you spend too much time on the Internet and

1228
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 3: you start to feel impatient and restless and frustrated and grumpy,

1229
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 3: and you're a little bit more angry, you're quicker to snap.

1230
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: You start to see the worst and everything and everyone.

1231
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 3: And this happens to everyone when they spend too much

1232
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: time on the Internet, especially social media, because the modern

1233
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 3: Internet is essentially a rage machine, because all sorts of

1234
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 3: research shows that rage hooks our attention more than joy,

1235
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 3: more than satisfaction. If we're pissed off at someone or

1236
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 3: about something, we're going to lean in and we're gonna

1237
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: read and we're going to feel our blood boil, and

1238
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 3: we're going to comment, and we're going to go, go, go,

1239
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: go go, and then we're going to end that session.

1240
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 3: We're gonna be all fired up and our nervous system

1241
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 3: is going to be aroused, and we're going to sleep

1242
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: like shit, and then we're gonna do it again the

1243
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 3: next day, and eventually we're just gonna tire ourselves out.

1244
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 3: Our brain's going to turn to mush, We're not going

1245
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 3: to be able to focus, We're not going to find

1246
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 3: much joy in life.

1247
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 2: Is going to be worse than it was before.

1248
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 3: So I think it's really important back to discipline and constraints,

1249
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: to have some constraints about how you use these digital technologies.

1250
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 2: Lest we're all going to have Internet brain.

1251
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: And this is before AI takes over the Internet, which

1252
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 3: is going to happen probably in the next few years.

1253
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 3: So I think that all of us are going to

1254
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 3: have to decide at some point whether we're content to

1255
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 3: turn ourselves into angry, numbed out slaves to the Internet,

1256
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: or if we're going to touch grass and challenge ourselves

1257
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 3: and create and contribute and be an actual community and

1258
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 3: do cool shit and like contribute and love. And that's

1259
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 3: a choice that we still have some agency to make,

1260
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 3: and I think it's the most important choice that any

1261
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: of us can make.

1262
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 2: So it's not to say.

1263
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 3: Log off completely. I mean this podcast is recorded over

1264
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: the Internet. The Internet is an incredible freaking tool and

1265
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 3: it has so many benefits. There are certain parts of

1266
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 3: the Internet and there are certain ways that we use

1267
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 3: it which come with a lot of negative consequences, and

1268
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 3: we should be aware of them and should we should

1269
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 3: minimize them. And I think this is especially true on

1270
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: social media. So I am a big believer in curating

1271
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: your feed. I block people extremely quickly because I don't

1272
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: know these people from Adam. And if there's someone who

1273
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 3: I respect that says something that I disagree with or

1274
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 3: that I find bizarre, I reach out to that person

1275
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 3: and I get on the phone with them, or if

1276
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: I can't, I meet them in person because I want

1277
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 3: to learn from them, not just get pissed off at someone.

1278
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 3: Because life is way too short to just get pissed

1279
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 3: off at everyone about everything. But when you realize that

1280
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: the way that these platforms make money is by making

1281
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 3: us all pissed off at each other about everything, it's.

1282
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 2: A real conundrum and the only way around.

1283
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: It is to get off the platforms increasingly and to

1284
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 3: get out in the real world and to have real

1285
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 3: conversations with people, and to realize that, yes, there are

1286
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 3: some evil, shitty people, but most people are doing the

1287
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 3: best they can with what they have.

1288
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked a lot about building systems or constraints

1289
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,919
Speaker 1: or structures, sometimes to enforce good things, but also maybe

1290
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: sometimes to suppress less good things. How have you built

1291
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: some kind of structure around how you use social media

1292
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: or your phone to keep it from getting overwhelming and

1293
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: taking over your time and attention. This is something that

1294
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, I've been wrestling with myself, and I you know,

1295
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: one of the main antidotes to this a lot of

1296
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: people prescribe is getting outside and engaging outdoors and all that,

1297
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: which definitely is something that hunters and anglers understand and

1298
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: can relate to. But even those of us who do

1299
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,439
Speaker 1: that stuff all the time are finding ourselves still being

1300
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: hijacked by these things. Heck, even being hijacked by them

1301
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 1: while we are outside hunting or fishing and then getting

1302
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: sucked into that wormhole. How have you battled that yourself.

1303
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, like, when you're doing your craft,

1304
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 3: you should not be you should not have your phone

1305
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 3: on you. So if you're on Instagram during the hunt

1306
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 3: that you've been training for for the last three months

1307
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 3: because you want to be totally present during that hunt, Like,

1308
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: that's a bad use of Instagram. I'm sorry, man Like,

1309
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 3: and if take take the app off your phone, if

1310
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 3: you need the wayfinder whatever on your phone, great, But

1311
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 3: I'd argue, like go analog, like buy a compass. And

1312
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe there's other things you use your

1313
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 3: phone for, but generally speaking, like a good compass, a

1314
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 3: good watch, a good knife, and a good notebook, and

1315
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 3: then like an emergency device for contact, Like do you

1316
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: really need your.

1317
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 2: iPhone so you can scroll Instagram?

1318
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 3: Probably not, I think also being really honest with yourself

1319
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 3: about which of the platforms like gets you. So for me,

1320
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 3: it's Twitter or X Like I just there's something about

1321
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 3: the textual and the very political nature of it where

1322
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: when I'm on Twitter, I'm just pissed off at everyone.

1323
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 3: So I don't have Twitter on my phone, like I

1324
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: use it professionally. I log onto the computer, I put

1325
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 3: something out, and I close it and I don't come

1326
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 3: on until the next day.

1327
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: Instagram is not as bad. I don't know.

1328
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 3: I think it's probably because I'm such a textual person,

1329
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 3: so I get more sucked into reading text on Twitter,

1330
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 3: so I can have Instagram on my phone.

1331
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 2: It doesn't destroy my life. It's fine.

1332
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 3: Something else that I do is I took a digital

1333
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 3: sabbath where one day a week I don't use any

1334
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 3: of my Internet connected devices.

1335
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: Well that's actually not true.

1336
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 3: I watch like sports, and I guess now those are streamers,

1337
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 3: But I don't use my email or social media, and

1338
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 3: I don't go to the New York Times or the

1339
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal or whatever. So I turn off news,

1340
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 3: and I turn off social media, and I turn off email.

1341
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 3: And I do this by having my wife hide my

1342
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,479
Speaker 3: phone in my computer, because if I know where they are,

1343
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 3: I'm going to check, or the temptation to check is

1344
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 3: going to be so strong it's going to distract me

1345
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 3: from what I'm trying to do. So I take one

1346
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 3: day a week where I'm essentially offline, and like, that

1347
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: is such a great reset for my brain and just

1348
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 3: my being and my soul. But that's a constraint, right,

1349
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 3: Like that gets back to that is a constraint I'm

1350
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 3: The constraint is I'm constraining myself from being able to

1351
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: log onto the internet whenever I want, But that allows

1352
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 3: me to be the best writer, the best parent, the

1353
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: best husband, the best athlete that.

1354
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 2: I can be.

1355
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think those are really smart ideas and constraints

1356
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: to put into place, and unfortunately we need to go

1357
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: to extreme lengths now to develop.

1358
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, fire and let me let me interjact real quick, Mark,

1359
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 3: because here's the thing, and this is like inside baseball

1360
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 3: for your audience. So maybe people find this interesting, maybe not.

1361
01:04:57,160 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 3: I'm looking at you, I'm reading your body language. I

1362
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 3: think part of the re and that you struggle is

1363
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: like you're a good guy that's doing it right with

1364
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 3: integrity and with genuine care about your craft. In so

1365
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: many of the biggest, most popular accounts that suck all

1366
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: the attention on the internet are charlatan grifters that don't

1367
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 3: know what they're talking about, that are preying on people's insecurities,

1368
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 3: that don't actually give a shit about the craft. They

1369
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 3: just want to be famous. And it is really because

1370
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 3: I face that all the time. Like the biggest names

1371
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 3: and like performance and excellence and I'm not going to

1372
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 3: name names, I've met these people they're clowns. They're phenomenal

1373
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 3: digital marketers, but they're clowns. They're not good at anything,

1374
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 3: and the things that they're good at, they cheat. They

1375
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 3: look jacked because they take steroids, and then they don't

1376
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 3: disclose that they're taking steroids. So like it's really frustrating

1377
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 3: and it's kind of despairing. And what I found is, like,

1378
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 3: screw it, I don't care. I would rather have a

1379
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 3: niche readership, in a niche community of people who are

1380
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 3: actually committed to excellence, who are doing it the right way,

1381
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 3: with integrity and with with like heartfelt, genuine nature, and

1382
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 3: be a million times smaller than the biggest freaking influencers

1383
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 3: who are clowns. And I think once you get to

1384
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 3: meet some of these influencers and pull the curtain back

1385
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 3: and you see what clowns they are, and how miserable

1386
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 3: their marriages are, and what shitty parents they are, and

1387
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 3: how fucked up their lives are, you.

1388
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 2: Wouldn't want to be one.

1389
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 3: And yet every time I log onto Instagram and I

1390
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 3: see someone with a gazillion followers, I get a little

1391
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 3: bit frustrated, and I've just kind of accepted, like that's it.

1392
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 3: But That's why I'm talking to you, because like you're

1393
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 3: real and I think the more that you can surround

1394
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 3: yourself with real people who are going about it the

1395
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: right way, the more joy that we all get.

1396
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that is very very not just good

1397
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 1: but profound advice. It's simple but really impactful. And that's

1398
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: something that a lot of your writing and your social

1399
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 1: media posts and everything that you put out there, your newsletter,

1400
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: all of it is is grounded. I guess going back

1401
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: to one of your books, it's grounded in a sense

1402
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: of humanity. Maybe that really resonates with me and I've

1403
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: really appreciated. So I thank you for that, Brad, And

1404
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: I want to make sure we give folks a chance

1405
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: to learn a little bit more about where they can

1406
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: connect with you, connect with all the different things you've

1407
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: got going out into the world and see this latest

1408
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: book and all the rest. Can you give us a

1409
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: quick scoop on where to find all those things?

1410
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark.

1411
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 3: So the book is called The Way of Excellence. My

1412
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 3: name is Brad Stalberg. The book is available from wherever

1413
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 3: you get books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble Bookshop dot Org.

1414
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 3: In the spirit of Internet Brain. If you want to

1415
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: go deep. I would actually encourage you not to check

1416
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 3: out my social media, but to like buy the book

1417
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 3: or audible the book and listen to it. Read the book,

1418
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 3: spend some time with it, take notes in it, and

1419
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 3: then apply it to your craft, apply it to being

1420
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 3: a better outdoorsman or outdoors woman. If you've done that

1421
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 3: and you are on social media, the place where I

1422
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 3: am most active is Instagram.

1423
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 2: My handle is just my name at Brad Stalberg.

1424
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 3: I co host the podcast called Excellence actually, and I

1425
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 3: have a substack that is also just my name Brad Stealberg.

1426
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: It's all great work. Appreciate you doing all that. I

1427
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: appreciate you being here, and let's make sure to do

1428
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: it again.

1429
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark, keep fighting the good fight.

1430
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: I will, all right, and that's going to do it

1431
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: for us today. I appreciate you tuning in. Hopefully this

1432
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: was a nice change of pace. Hopefully this gave you

1433
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: some new ideas to think about as you head into

1434
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: this new season. As we're speaking right now, it's twenty

1435
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: twenty six, I know a lot of you are reflecting

1436
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 1: on the season that just wrapped up. Maybe you're already

1437
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: planning and thinking through some ideas for the new year,

1438
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: so hopefully this one can help set you on the

1439
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: right path as we pursue excellence as deer hunters, or

1440
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 1: bow hunters or outdoors people of all different kinds. There's

1441
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: a lot that we can take from this one. I

1442
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: hope you did too, and thank you for being here.

1443
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 1: Until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.