1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome home everyone. 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm Angela Raie, a host of Native Lamppod, and it 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: is Solo Pod Day. There is so much going on 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: in the world, and we will get into so many 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: of those topics on Thursday for our main show. Today, 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: I have the opportunity, the privilege, and the pleasure to 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: speak to someone who is a dear brother, dear friend 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: to me. He is a civil and human rights attorney. 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: He has long represented the survivors of the Tulsa Race massacre, 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: also known as Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma, or 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: Greenwood as many of you know as well. He is 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: the founder and executive director of Justice for Greenwood. And 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: today we're going to get into a discussion about reparations 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: his upcoming book. 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: That will be available for pre order very soon. 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: And so let's bring de Mario Solomon Simmons to the stage. 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Hey d. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 3: What's going on? Angela's good to see you as always. 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: Thank you, good to see you virtually too. 22 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 3: Well. 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: First, I want to hear about this new book that 24 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: you are dropping because it is so timely, so important. 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: We are living in a day and age where you know, 26 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: fact free debates, alternative facts, erasing of history. So Redeem 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: a Nation feels like a really appropriate title for a 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: really challenging time. 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: Talk to us a little bit about the book. 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really excited about this, been working over over 31 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: four years. Redeem a Nation book dot com. You can 32 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: go there the book. As you stated, we're all feeling 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: in Angela, We're all feeling that America's going to a 34 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: place and particularly in our lifetime, has never been to. 35 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: And one of the main arguments I'm making in my 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: book is to redeem this country, you must have reparatory 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 3: justice for black people. That's the only way you're going 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: to ever have a country that it says it is 39 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: on paper. If you don't redeem and have a repertory 40 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 3: of justice for black people, who will not have And 41 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: when I talk about redeem a nation, I am talking 42 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: about getting us back to a place that we have 43 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 3: never been before. We've never been redeemed. The only way 44 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: it can actually occur if there is real repair, and 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 3: then that repair will allow us to become the nation 46 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: that we say on paper we want to be people 47 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: talk about democracy and this and that there is no 48 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: democracy without reparatory justice for black people. And what I'm 49 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 3: excited about the book as I outline and explain the 50 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: people get behind the scenes of my twenty five plus 51 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: years of fighting for reparations both here for the Tulsa 52 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 3: Race Masacre and in general, but also in my think 53 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: Greenwood Principles, which you and I have talked about, where 54 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: I really lay out a plan of action that any 55 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 3: black community can utilize to create the type of Greenwoods 56 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 3: we need. So a lot of people think when they 57 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: think about Greenwood, they think about, like you said, black 58 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: Wall Street, which is fine, But black Wall Street was 59 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: just a part of Greenwood. The real story is the 60 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 3: community of Greenwood, and that community was created by five 61 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 3: particular principles. In the first was community love. We need 62 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: that more than ever in today's world. The second was 63 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: the freedom mind state. The third was ownership, and not 64 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: just ownership of tangible things, for ownership of ourselves, ownership 65 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: of our mentality, ownership of where we want to go 66 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 3: in life. Numberfore we had education and web concentration, and 67 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: number five with our real resilience. And these are things 68 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: I'm talking about in the book because we're going to 69 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: need all of those as we continue to go in 70 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: this Magna two point ozero world. 71 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's timely because it's the holiday season. You know, 72 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: Black folks in this country sometimes also celebrate Kwansas. So 73 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: I like the fact that the think Greenwood principles are 74 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: closely aligned with the principles of Kwansas. So hopefully folks 75 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: can get the book. Where can they get a DN 76 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Is it available now for purchase? 77 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: It's available now for pre order. Go to Redeem nationbook 78 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: dot com. Redeem nation book dot com get your pre order. 79 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: If you pre order now, and in this holiday season, 80 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: my publisher is going to provide you expert died in 81 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: a chapter about the book. So the book actually publishes Tuesday, 82 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 3: May twelve, twenty twenty six, which is just a few 83 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: weeks before the one hundred and fifth anniversary of the 84 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: Tulsa Race Massacres. So yes, it's very very timely. And 85 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: I'll tell you Angel you know, about writing a book. 86 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: I was wanting this out a long time ago, but 87 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 3: I'm really happy that it's coming out right now, right 88 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: before the Anna Persi and the mid terms. I think 89 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: it's gonna be something that's gonna really move our community forward. 90 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: And I'm waiting on editor's notes right now, so you 91 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: are ahead of me, my friend. As you know, I 92 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: will just say to you that it's also very timely 93 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: because we lost a heroin from the Tulsa Race massacre. 94 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: With Mother Fletcher and all that she's done to make 95 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: sure that she keeps or she kept the Tulsa Race 96 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: massacre at the front of our minds and of our hearts, 97 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: I want you just to talk a little bit about 98 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: Mother Fletcher. For those who do not know her, I 99 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: have the privilege of hearing her story. Can you please 100 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: just share a little bit about Mother Fletcher Fletcher giving 101 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: her recent passes. 102 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and thank you for that. It's been about two weeks, 103 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: and honestly, the pain is still there. Mother Fletcher, Viola 104 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: Fort Fletcher, we call her Mother Fletcher, was one hundred 105 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 3: and eleven years old. She was the oldest living survivor 106 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: of the Tulsa Race massacre. She was born in nineteen fourteen. 107 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: She was an extraordinary woman who really if you think 108 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 3: about Angela, she lived the entire arc of black people 109 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: in this country right born in a great community of 110 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: greenwood and got to enjoy a little bit of that 111 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 3: before she had to run for her life on a 112 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 3: horse and buggy for her family where everything was destroyed. 113 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: Therefore she didn't get to get her education. They were sharecroppers. 114 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 3: Then she grows up as a jim crow. She's dealing 115 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 3: with being a domestic worker for over seventy years, working 116 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: for pennies, literally not getting the proper pension that she needed. 117 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: And yet despite all of that heartache, she's still volunteered 118 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 3: during World War Two to work and shipyard to San Diego, California, 119 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: building navy ships. She still raised a family, she still 120 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: became a grandmother and a great grandmother and an auntie. 121 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 3: And then in her twilight years, when I met her, 122 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 3: As you know, and I've been working on this for 123 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: a long time, so I've known literally over a couple 124 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: hundred survivors I've represented, but I didn't meet Mother Flesh 125 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: until twenty twenty. When I met her, she was one 126 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: hundred and six years old, living by herself, living on 127 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: her own, and she could have easily said, look, let 128 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: me just live out my life. I'm good, but she decided, no, 129 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: I want to I want to get justice because every 130 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: night I still see the bodies in the street. I 131 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: still can fill the flames and see the flames. And 132 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: this lady was relentless committed to the calls. Not for 133 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: herself she would always say, you know, hey, I'm over 134 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: one hundred, but for her family before the broader black community. 135 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: She never missed the court date. We had several court days. 136 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: She never missed. She flew to Washington, DC on three occasions. 137 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: She met She testified in Congress on May nineteen, twenty 138 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 3: twenty one. We met the Vice President, Kamala Harris. You 139 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 3: helped that happen in Angela. Thanks again. She came back 140 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: to d C and twenty twenty three to meet with 141 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: the Department of Justice to push for investigation. She told 142 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: me one time early on, I said, mother Fletcher, you know, 143 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: what can we do for you something you always wanted 144 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: to do? She said, you know, I always wanted to 145 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: go to Africa, And she went to Africa. We were 146 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: able to the community get her and get her to 147 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: Africa with her little brother, Hughes van Ellis. She went 148 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: over to Africa one hundred and seven years old, spent 149 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 3: two and a half weeks. The lady was amazing. What 150 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 3: on one hundred and eleventh birthday, which was last May tenth, 151 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: we sang Happy Birthday to her and we were in 152 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: this pack restaurant, one hundred people there. We seen the 153 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: heavy birthday, the black version of course, and at the 154 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 3: end we just started clapping. But she grabbed my shoulder, 155 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: my arm. I said, you forgot to say it many 156 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: more to say this lady was full of energy. I 157 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: was with her. She died on Monday the twenty third. 158 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: I was with her Friday night already before at the hospital, 159 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: right next to a hospital bed, and she was engaged. 160 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: She was talking, and she was someone that was still 161 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: wanting to see justice toward dying Dae. So you know, 162 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: that's our charger. If nothing else, we want to make 163 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: sure that we continue to push forward because we got 164 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: all the fletchers all over this country. Yes, we have 165 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: all the fletchers in our families. We need to continue 166 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: to fight for them. And that's what it means the 167 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: redeem a nation. That's what it means to think greenwood. 168 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: That's what it means to fight for paratory justice. 169 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's so important in this work 170 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: to just deepen into the humanity for a second. You 171 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: said something that I never really considered. You've been working 172 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: on restorative and reparative justice for the survivors and the 173 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: descendants of Black Wall Street for as long as I 174 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: can remember, and I've known you since law school. Can 175 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: you talk about how many people you've lost in this 176 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: fight and what that feels like to you knowing that, Yes, 177 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: there's been a local solve, and we'll talk about that 178 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: in a moment, but there's not been this federal recognition. 179 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: You heard from the former president that he was going 180 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: to do something about it that didn't happen. I want 181 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: you to talk about, just for a moment, the humanity. 182 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: Like I already know your rage. You know, you and 183 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: I can go toe to toe at the rage level, 184 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: but just like what that impact is like when you 185 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: think about all the people you've come to knowing this work, 186 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: they're gone, they didn't get to see justice before they passed. 187 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: What does that feel like to you? 188 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 3: Wow? Man? Powerful question? And you know, something I talk 189 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 3: about in the book a lot is the human side 190 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: of it, because you know, being out front, being the 191 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: leader and all that, you always want to project and 192 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: be strength and beyond beyond, but you're right, I mean 193 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: so many people just come to mind outside with one 194 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 3: of our mentors, Charles Overtry. You know, he wasn't a 195 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: survivor or decendent, but he was someone who poured his 196 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 3: last fifteen years of his professional life. He poured into 197 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 3: this work, you know, and I poured into us so much, 198 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: and you know he's gone. You think about people like 199 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 3: Otis Clark, who was one hundred and nine when he 200 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: died back in two thousand and seven, and the doctor 201 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: Olivia Hooker who was over one hundred and four I 202 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 3: think when she died, and the first African American female 203 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 3: in the Coastguard. And just I traveled with these folks 204 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 3: so much, I mean, Wes Young. It's to so many 205 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: names and to know that they all died without justice. 206 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: And as you know, Angela, when I grew up here 207 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 3: in told So, I went to middle school on Greenwood Avenue, 208 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: never heard about the mask, I didn't learn about the 209 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: mass couch. I went to University of Clones playing football 210 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven, and so at that point it sparked 211 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: something to me to say, Okay, we're going to make 212 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 3: sure people never forget about this. But also for our survivors. 213 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: They all thought very strongly that once the conspiracy of 214 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: silence was broken, that now that the world would know 215 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: what actually happened, understand that fifteen hundred and fifty homes 216 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: was burnt down, that over a billion dollars in property damage, 217 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: that eight thousand people were main homeless, that three thousand 218 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: people disappeared, etc. They believe strongly, Angela that justice will come, 219 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: and it didn't, and that really hurts me deeply because 220 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: they deserve that. And it also says what does it 221 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: say about our standing as black people in this country 222 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: that you can have the worst ever race massacre that's 223 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: on video, that has hundreds of pictures, that has hundreds 224 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 3: of insurance claims, that no one dispute to happen, and 225 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 3: yet the local state and the federal government said we're 226 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: not going to do anything about it. What does that 227 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: say about our standing as full citizens? 228 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: Right? 229 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: The Equal Protection Clause, the fourteenth Amendment that's trying to 230 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: be repealed, What does that say about us right now? 231 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 3: And those things are it's difficult and hurtful on a 232 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 3: personal level, but when I think about our people, we 233 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 3: got such a long way to go, and that's why 234 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: I say, preparatory justice is it's the barometer if America 235 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: can actually be a democracy, can actually be what it 236 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: says on paper. 237 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: You know, the thing that comes to mind now is 238 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: the number of folks who say, why would you continue 239 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: in this fight? 240 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: They're never going to do this. And it's not white 241 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: people saying this. 242 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: It's not Latino people saying this, it's not indigenous folks 243 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: saying this. These are black folks who say, you know, 244 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: we're wasting your time. There's no reason for us to be, 245 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, trying to get reparations. We need to move 246 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: beyond it. It's time to go past this, right What 247 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: do you say to people who say that ignorant? You 248 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: know what, I'm not going to cuss because you don't. 249 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to be on my best behavior today. But 250 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: I want to know what you say to people who 251 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: really don't think that we have we should have a 252 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: dog in this fight anymore, even though it is absolutely 253 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: rightfully ours. 254 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: I would say a couple of things. One, they don't 255 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 3: know their own history and they don't respect their ancestors. 256 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: I mean, our people from the day we got on 257 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: this continent. Be it if we were indigenous folks like 258 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: black and Dish, and as folks who were enslaved, or 259 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 3: if folks coming from Africa with slave From day one, 260 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: we've been fighting for our humanity, were fighting for our 261 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 3: dignity and fighting for our just compensation. So if you're 262 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,599 Speaker 3: willing to say I don't care about what my ancestors 263 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: fault for, I don't care about what's old to us, 264 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: then you know I really don't know. We don't. We're 265 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: not the same. We're not the same. Secondly, it is 266 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 3: a very function again, are we equal underneath the law 267 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: or not. If we're equal underneath the law, then we 268 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: are old conversation for what happened to us, not just 269 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: the physical labor, but what was taken from us, the 270 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: narratives that were taking from us, the spiritual breakdown from us. 271 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: I explained it like this, the every you know, people 272 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 3: that love the NFL, Right, I'm a football guy, the 273 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 3: NFL believe I. 274 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: Have never guessed. With those two footballs sitting behind you, d. 275 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: I talk about things. The NFL believes in reparations. Jerry 276 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: Jones believes very strongly in reparations. If Jerry Jones, let 277 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: me explain what I mean. In the NFL. If you 278 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 3: are the best team, you pick last in the draft. 279 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 3: The next year, if you're the worst team, you pick 280 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: what pick person in the draft. It's reparations. So if 281 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 3: Jerry Jones and these billionaire NFL owners can care about reparations, 282 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: you don't want to care about reparations for your people, 283 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: your community. That's actually old. And then, thirdly, reparations sometimes 284 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: gets so esoteric. I think people don't realize it's just 285 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: as simple as someone hitting your car from behind and 286 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: damaging your car, breaking your leg, causing you to miss 287 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: time for work. But obviously they got to pay to 288 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: fix your car o Reusly they need to pay a fix, 289 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 3: you get your leg fixed, oriusly need to pay for 290 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: the time off for work, and the need to pay 291 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: some pain and suffering. It's just that simple. So if 292 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 3: you're saying you don't believe that we deserve reparations or 293 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 3: we should fight reparations, you don't believe that black folks 294 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 3: are full a citizens in the United States of America. 295 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: Okay, let me ask you this. 296 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't like the devil, but I'm gonna be his 297 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: advocate for one second, because I do believe this is 298 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: the devil speaking when they do this. What about the 299 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: folks who are like, okay, but you're talking about if 300 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: your car was hit and you were injured, but we're 301 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: talking about your great great grandparent who was injured. 302 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: Why do you deserve to receive what they. 303 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 3: Didn't Because the injury is a continuing harm. And this 304 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: is exactly what we talked about in on litigation for 305 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: four years, a continuing harm. So again, if we've used 306 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 3: the massacre as an example, the massacre, it's just the 307 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 3: event that started the harm. Let me use another impetus, right, 308 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: let me use another example. You remember back during the 309 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: Environment administration, I think it was twenty eleven where we 310 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 3: had that big explosion in the Gulf of Mexico, the 311 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: BP explosion, and all that oil was just shooting out 312 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: underneath the war billions of millions of gallons of oil. 313 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 3: So that's the impetus. That's like the massacre hadened, that's 314 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: the injuring event. But that oil, even though they plugged 315 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: that hole within you know, a couple of weeks, but 316 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: that oil continued to teraminate, continue to kill wildlife, continue 317 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: to contaminate the air, they can continue to contaminate the water, 318 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: continue to cause people to miss and lose their livelihood. 319 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: And it continued for years and years and years, and 320 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 3: guess what, it's still continued. And it's the same thing 321 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: with the master, it's the same thing with enslavement. It's 322 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: the same thing with any of these issues ever renewed 323 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 3: that destroy families, stop wealth, broke up communities. That harm 324 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: is ongoing until you repair the harm. The harm is ongoing. 325 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: And I think we don't have to really understand sometimes 326 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: what that harm is, or we don't want to accept 327 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: that we are still a harmed people. I know some 328 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 3: people say stop being a victim. Well I was victimized. Yeah, 329 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: my parents were victimized. My grandparents were victimizds. So it's 330 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: not like we're gonna stop doing what we're doing. Look, 331 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: we're still fighting every day, but you still owe us 332 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 3: last thing. I would say, do you know, well two things. One, 333 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 3: when the massurpation of proclamation came out at first they 334 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: did in eighteen sixty two they made enslavement illegal and 335 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: washed in DC and they paid reparations to the enslavers 336 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 3: in Washington, right, But you know in England when they 337 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 3: outlawed enslavement, they passed the bill I think was eighteen 338 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: thirty three, eighteen thirty two. I talk about this in 339 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: the book. They actually paid reparations to enslavers, and that 340 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 3: payment lasted up to like twenty fifteen, until the last 341 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 3: payments were paid out. Okay, I'm saying that again, from 342 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 3: eight thousand to twenty fifteen, so they understand what it means. 343 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: Look at Haiti. Haiti had to pay reparations for getting 344 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 3: their own their own freedom from the eighteen hundreds all 345 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 3: the way up to like nineteen forty. So I want 346 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 3: what everybody else in the world. I want four justice. 347 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 3: I want equal protection underneath the law. 348 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: And recognition, like if you can apologize, certainly you can 349 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: repair that. 350 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 2: This country not ready for that? Oh man, what else 351 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 2: did they say? I reject that? 352 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: Actually in many Sorry sorry, no, no, no, I'm just 353 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm mumbling. I'm saying, like David say, the country's not 354 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: ready for it. But I reject that. 355 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: Actually, Oh, this country's ready for US. Countries pay reparations 356 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: to Japanese Americans, the country pay reparations to Native Americans. 357 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: That was old. This country's pay reparations to the state, 358 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: this country's pay reparations all around. It just becomes the 359 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: black folks that is a problem. And I think more 360 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: of black folks are glad you asked the question and 361 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 3: we're addressing our own community. More of us would make 362 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 3: uncompromised and stands that preparatory justice is due and make 363 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 3: that one of our top issues. Is not saying we're 364 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: not going to vote if you don't do this preparatory justice, 365 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 3: but make it one of our top issues that we 366 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 3: push and push and be uncompromising, that we're old like 367 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 3: these other people groups across the world and in this country. 368 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: So this year there was as a result of a 369 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: historic election in Tulsa, you saw a sea change for 370 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: the first time that went beyond recognition, beyond an apology, 371 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: beyond a committee that is, you know, smoking mirrors. 372 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: You saw some actual shifts happening. 373 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about your work with 374 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: the mayor of Tulsa and what happened as a result 375 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: of his election. 376 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out Mayor Monroe Nichols, the first African American 377 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 3: mayor in the city of Tulsa history. We had been 378 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 3: working for a long time, known him a long time 379 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: as a state legislator, and campaign for him, pushed him 380 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 3: to get elected. But I told him every step of 381 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: the way, Hey, as soon as as soon as you 382 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 3: get into the mayor's office, I'm gonna be at your doorstep. 383 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 3: And I was. And we presented to him what was 384 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 3: called Project Greenwood, which you could learn more about in 385 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: the book, but also at Justice Foragreen with dot org 386 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 3: Project Greenwood, which was our thirteen point plan for a 387 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 3: comprehensive reparations. We worked on that with him for a 388 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 3: number of months. He didn't accept everything we wanted, but 389 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 3: he did accept about six of our proposals, including making 390 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: Tulsa June first, Tulsa Race Mask of Reparation Commemorates day, 391 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: which Angel you said something very interested in your acknowledgement. 392 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 3: One thing I found out in this work is that 393 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: as much as people want to be compensated, for sure, 394 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 3: they also want to be acknowledged for what happened. And 395 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: so to have in law that this day will be 396 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: a citywide holiday to commemorate the masker, particularly in this 397 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 3: time of a rasure of black history, is huge. He 398 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: also put forward one hundred and five million dollar private 399 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 3: trust that will provide scholarships to massacre descendants. It will 400 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 3: provide a business grant, a grant to our surviving entities. 401 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 3: We had twelve surviving entities of the massacre, so they 402 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 3: would be eligible for these grants. They will also provide 403 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 3: grants for business owners who are descendants. Also, twenty four 404 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 3: million dollars in there is going to be provided for 405 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: housing in the Greenwood community. And there's some other aspect. 406 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 3: He released over forty five thousand documents that we have 407 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: been suing the city for years to receive, and so 408 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 3: you know, we made a lot of progress, and we 409 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: really appreciate Mayor Nichols for his leadership and stepping out 410 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: as we continue to push him to do more. We 411 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 3: still want for those outstanding claims over two hundred million 412 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 3: dollars worth of claims to be paid. We still want 413 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 3: for those who suffered the harm that we know were 414 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 3: math killed, like doctor A. C. Jackson. We still want 415 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: conversation for those things, and we will do both things 416 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: at the same time. We can. We can advocate while 417 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: working with someone at the same time, and I encourage 418 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 3: all of our listeners, all of your listeners, to remember 419 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: that be steadfast, but it's okay to also work with 420 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: someone and continue to push them. 421 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: And that I think is so important we've gotten to 422 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: the place. 423 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: I don't know when this shift happened. 424 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: I'm argue maybe two thousand and eight, when people started 425 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: becoming fans of politicians rather than the folks who pay them, 426 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: you know. I think of President Obama, who you know, 427 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: was in the limelight, had a ton of fanfare. Folks 428 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: were so excited, including me, about electing the first black president. 429 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: But in that excitement, I think we lost our ability 430 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: to truly hold our elected officials feet to the fire 431 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: and require something from their service. And so to that point, 432 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: there's another elected official from state of California, Governor Gavin Newsom, 433 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: who has received a ton of fanfare because he has 434 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: been one of Donald Trump's chief trolls. 435 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: But he's also trolling. 436 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: Us to Mario because he vetoed several bills that were 437 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: part of a rep reparations package earlier this year. I 438 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: talked about it on the podcast two days after the veto, 439 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: and Yoka's was hot. 440 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 2: They were so. 441 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Mad at me because they think that I should not 442 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: criticize Donald Trump's chief troll. But if somebody is not 443 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: doing right by black people, I don't care if they green, white, 444 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: purple Democrat, Republican Liberty or Jill Stein Green Party, like 445 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: I got equal heat for you. So I just I'm 446 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: curious to know when you consider Gavin Newsom's veto of 447 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: preferential you know, admission. They have legacy admissions, but that 448 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: is still in effect housing like, there were so many 449 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: programs that would have been beneficial and additive to black 450 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: people who are the descendants of enslaved people in this country. 451 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: He vetoed those very tactical clear. 452 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: Programs, some of them didn't cost anything, like that preferential 453 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: admission piece to California state colleges. 454 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: And then you look at Gavin. 455 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, Wes Moore in the state of Maryland, 456 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: Maryland's first black governor who veto to study. And so 457 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: I want to know if you've contrasted between the two 458 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: vetos and or a package of ve those and a 459 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: veto over here, and whether or not there's something for 460 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: us to learn in our approach and challenging those two 461 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: governors who are also likely to be twenty twenty eight contenders. 462 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: Well, first I'll start by saying you absolutely right that 463 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 3: people don't understand that politicians are tools. They're not our friends. 464 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 3: I talk about this essentially in the book that politics 465 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 3: in general is about who gets what when we're and 466 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: how how much. And so when you understand that and 467 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 3: understand that politicians are not our friends, they are tools, 468 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 3: they are delivery mechanisms. So we should be able to 469 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: criticize them anytime we feel like they're not giving us 470 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 3: the resources that we deserve. And so the fact that 471 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 3: Gavin newso veto those bills, I mean I was very disappointed. 472 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: Like you said, these bills didn't cost me, didn't cost anything. 473 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 3: You talked about the preferential treatment, I mean preferential admission, 474 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 3: also a bill to give preferential professional licenses people who 475 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 3: are from enslaved background. These are things that should happen 476 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 3: because the damage was done we already talked about as 477 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: a continuing harm. And if you can document that you 478 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 3: are from some family who has suffered this harm, you 479 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: deserve to have preparatory justice. And so I think it's 480 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 3: inexcusable that he vetoed those bills. It's very disappointed. The 481 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: one bill he did go through is a six million 482 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: dollar package to study who could be eligible for the reparations. Well, 483 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 3: I mean we study who could be eligible, Well, what 484 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 3: are they going to get and to be honest, that's 485 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 3: something that we are still working with the mayor here 486 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 3: in Tulsa to make sure that we understand who's eligible 487 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 3: to receive and make sure the right people receive it. 488 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 3: So I absolutely wish should continue to push Gaven Newson. 489 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 3: I'm like everybody else, I like to see how he's 490 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 3: you know, trolling the administration continue to do that. 491 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: And Nicki Minaj, by the way, I'm just like the 492 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: trolling is is one thing, but like showing us that 493 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: you're with us is something completely different. 494 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: You know, natural policy that's gonna move our community. That's 495 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 3: right in a in a comprehensive way. That's what we're 496 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 3: talking about here. We're talking about We're not talking about 497 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 3: geting a few people a few jobs. We're not trying 498 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: to put some black faces and high places. We're not 499 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 3: talking about just the leader of us having opportune were 500 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 3: trying to get something that's going to break up the 501 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: entirety of our community. Because again we talked about Greenwood, 502 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: it was about the entirety of the community. As to 503 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 3: rest more, I think it was very interesting and I 504 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 3: don't want to step on the toes of those some 505 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 3: friends of mine who are working very hard in the 506 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 3: state of Maryland, and how they feel about the veto. 507 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: But what I thought was very interesting, and I don't 508 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: think people picked up on it. Wes Moore said he 509 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 3: veatoed the bill because we already know what to do, 510 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 3: all right, That's what he said. So my point with 511 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: the NB if I was in Maryland, I would say, Okay, 512 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 3: since you said we already know what to do, I 513 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: would provide him legislation, specific legislation and the veto that yeah, okay, 514 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 3: you don't want to do that, you don't want to 515 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 3: do the study. You said, we already have this information. Okay, 516 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 3: here's the bills, just like just like in California, they 517 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 3: had a list of bills the newsom veto give Gavin, 518 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 3: give wes Moore a list of bills and see. Is 519 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: it really true that he said I want to do 520 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 3: the work. That's what he said. I'm gonna take a 521 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: brother from his work. He said, I want to do 522 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: the work. I want to do more study. So I 523 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 3: would love to see. And we have huge majorities. I 524 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 3: understand the Democratic majorities in Maryland, and I don't know 525 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: if they're in session as soon as they get in session. 526 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 3: I would bring those reparations bills one by one and 527 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 3: send them to Wes Moore and say, brother, we heard 528 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 3: you say you didn't want to study. Here's the work, 529 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: signed the bill, and then let's have a conversation after that. 530 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 2: That's it. 531 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: And I think that that is so important again because 532 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: to your point, systemic, historic, and ongoing harm has been 533 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: our story in this country. And it has not just 534 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: been at the federal level. It has not just been 535 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: at the state level. It has also been at the 536 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: local level. So I appreciate your work, dear brother, at 537 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: every level of government, all of your advocacy. 538 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: It's it just it means the world. 539 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: And so I want you to let people know how 540 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: they can support your work with justice for Greenwood and beyond. 541 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: Especially in this holiday season. 542 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: Y'all can't spend all your money at the Nike store, 543 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: and y'all still supposed to be out of target, so 544 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: hopefully you got some money for just. 545 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 3: Say that target. We've been out of it been hurting Meal, 546 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 3: but she's been still, she's been staying strong. Job said listen. 547 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 3: I would say three things real quickly. If we're about 548 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 3: about the wrap, support uh redeemer, nationbook dot com. Pick 549 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: that up as a holiday gift. Go to Justicefrogreenwood dot org. 550 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,239 Speaker 3: You know, make a donation to the word, sign up 551 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 3: for our newsletter, and thoroughly I'm asking everybody that's listening 552 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: if we talked about mother Fletcher when we when she 553 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: passed away, we you know, we lost so much. You 554 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: have mother inflectors in your own family. I want you 555 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: to right now make a plan for the holidays when 556 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 3: you're gonna be with your elders, make a plan to 557 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 3: get their or history. Make a plan to sit down 558 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: with them, turn on the phone and record them. And 559 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 3: these are the five questions, and you can go. You 560 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 3: can go to j Justice agree with We do genealogy. 561 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 3: We can support We have seminars on there. These are 562 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: the five questions. Though who are we? You know? What 563 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: is our what is our names? Sometimes our names have changed, 564 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: it's spelled a different way. We don't understand all our 565 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: family lines. We don't know where we migrated from. So 566 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 3: number one, who are we? Number two? Where did we? 567 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 3: Where all have we lived? And why? Find out when 568 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: you were living in Georgia or Mississippi or or Oklahoma? 569 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 3: And then why did you move and work parts of 570 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 3: the family win. Number three, what did we build and 571 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: what have we lost? You know, you never know that 572 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: business owner, that church that I mean, I found out 573 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: my family, my father's family that I didn't know very 574 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: well until I got grown built. We built churches in 575 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: the nineteen teen that still stand, that still has the 576 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 3: name on it, Jake Simmons, the Simmons Chapel. Right, So 577 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: find out and then find out number four, what have 578 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 3: we survived as a family? You know, is it a hurricane, 579 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 3: is it a tornado? Was a family member lynch? We 580 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: somebody laid off? Will we homeless at one point? Get 581 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 3: your history and number five from your elders. Find out 582 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: what do they want the future generations of your family 583 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 3: to know? What values are important to them, what lessons 584 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 3: are important to them? What unfinished work do they want 585 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 3: to make sure that the great nieces and the great 586 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: grandsons continue. So if you don't do anything else from 587 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: this conversation today, I just encourage you to capture your 588 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 3: own history and keep that for your own family, because 589 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 3: our history and our families are the most important thing, 590 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: and it's the only thing that we have that we 591 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 3: can control, and it's what has sustained us over five 592 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: hundred years here in the United States or what is 593 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: now known in the United States. 594 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: For absolutely Attorney de Mario Solomon Simmons, my brother and friend, 595 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: reparations advocate, true teller and now author, So make sure. 596 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: You go order that book. Mag deem a nation. 597 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: The happy holidays to you, my dear sister Mia, and 598 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: happy Kwanza. Shout out to those Kwanza principles to think green. 599 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: Will y'all get into it. Welcome home y'all. 600 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: Thanks. 601 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 602 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. For more podcast from iHeartRadio, visits iHeartRadio app, 603 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.