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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last hours, we

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Speaker 1: learned that teen boys Stephen Smith's body has been exhumed,

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Speaker 1: in other words, dug up for another autopsy. Do we

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Speaker 1: know who kills Stephen Smith? No, we do not, but

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Speaker 1: we are hot on the trail this as we learn

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Speaker 1: about two new po ice persons of interest. And yes,

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Speaker 1: there seemingly is still someone in the Murdock camp stirring

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Speaker 1: this spot. Also, a reward has just been issued for

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Speaker 1: info as it relates to Stephen Smith's death now ruled

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Speaker 1: a homicide. I mean, I see, Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: and Serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: list to our friends at wc b D. The attorney

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Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter of the Bland Richter Law Firm has confirmed

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Speaker 1: that the body of Stephen Smith has been exhumed. This

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Speaker 1: comes after a gofund me was started to raise money

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Speaker 1: to exhume Smith's body and perform an independent autopsy. Victor

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Speaker 1: previously told news to Smith's family was looking to hire

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Speaker 1: a local and national pathologist to examine the body. Stephen

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Speaker 1: Smith's body was discovered on a rural road in Hampton

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Speaker 1: County back in twenty fifteen. Just two weeks ago, the

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Speaker 1: South Carolina Law Enforcement Division announced they are now investigating

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Speaker 1: Smith's death as a homicide. Smith's death was initially investigated

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Speaker 1: as a hid and run, but investigators say the evidence

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Speaker 1: did not support that as a cause of death. Guys,

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Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friends at wc D. We

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Speaker 1: had been waiting so long for this exhumation to take place,

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Speaker 1: so hopefully we can get answers regarding the death of

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith. But something even more extraordinary has occurred. We

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Speaker 1: have learned that while the body's being exhumed that not one,

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Speaker 1: but two po ice persons of interest have emerged. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to WTOC A phone call in December twenty

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Speaker 1: fifteen between now retired corporal Michael Duncan with the South

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Speaker 1: Carolina Highway Patrol and former Hampton County Police officer Nick

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Speaker 1: Ginn reveal a tipster made authorities aware of two potential

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Speaker 1: suspects in nineteen year old Stephen Smith's death. We'll call

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Speaker 1: them Person one in Person two, can you tell me

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Speaker 1: what was told to you. We've tried to get in

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Speaker 1: touch with but he, you know, he's kind of avoid

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Speaker 1: the call to contact at all that this is what

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Speaker 1: I was told, he said, come here to the house,

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Speaker 1: he said, he told me that was drunk and hit something,

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Speaker 1: drunk and hit something. Joining me an all star panel,

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Speaker 1: including Eric Blan who is helping to lead Stephen Smith's

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Speaker 1: family through this horrible time for them, hopefully a light

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Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel. But first of Jennifer Wood,

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Speaker 1: director of research at fitznews dot com. Jennifer, so much

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Speaker 1: is happening so quickly in the Stephen Smith investigation. You

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Speaker 1: know what, let me correct myself. It's not quickly because

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Speaker 1: he was killed. This is all aside back in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: so it's not really quick when you look at the

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Speaker 1: big picture. But a lot happening in the last few

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Speaker 1: days now. I've seen the names of Py one and

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Speaker 1: Poy two, and this is what I understand is happening, Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: that these two guys are out in a big truck

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Speaker 1: with mudwheels, big tires and they hit Stephen Smith. One

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Speaker 1: of them comes back the next day to see what

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Speaker 1: he ran over and sees a bunch of police there.

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Speaker 1: That's number one. Will let him be the driver. Then

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Speaker 1: Number two blurts it out to his stepfather and his

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Speaker 1: stepfather father it is advised by Randy murdog, who is

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Speaker 1: representing him on other matters, to tell cops about person

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Speaker 1: one person too. Is that correct? Exactly? Okay, you tell me,

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Speaker 1: tell me because I've got a cursory understanding. You tell

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Speaker 1: me the whole thing. Jennifer, thank you for being with her,

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Speaker 1: with us, everybody, Jennifer would from Fitznez. Go ahead, Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: Both of these individuals were less I mean, they've always

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Speaker 1: been in the investigative files. So the stepfather had relayed

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Speaker 1: to a friend in the police department, he who's a sheriff,

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Speaker 1: stepandee that his stepson had reported that he had hit

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Speaker 1: something in the road with another friend and he was

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Speaker 1: very upset about it. He the books that he threw up,

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Speaker 1: and that person was advised by Randy Murdoch. Alex's brother,

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Speaker 1: older brother. She reported to police. So police did follow

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Speaker 1: up on the lead. I can't see anywhere in the

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Speaker 1: file where they spoke directly. Get the individual one or two.

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Speaker 1: You know. Eric Blaine joining me, high profile lawyer out

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Speaker 1: of South Carolina, co hostoft Cup of Justice podcast. Eric,

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Speaker 1: that's a day light and a dollar short, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to take our precious time together, this whole

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Speaker 1: panel bashing what the cops didn't do at that time

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Speaker 1: SLED and Highway Patrol. But in the investigative files, as

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood accurately points out, that means nothing to me.

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Speaker 1: You put a name in a filing forget about it

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Speaker 1: for eight years. Okay, I guess you can call that policing.

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Speaker 1: Are these names secret because I know who they are?

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Speaker 1: Are they is PO one, RPO one at PO two

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Speaker 1: being broadcast? The answer is yes, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: dangerous for the individuals involved. My understanding is they've received

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Speaker 1: some threats too. I think it interferes with the investigation

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Speaker 1: that SLED is doing. I disagreed that the South Carolina

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Speaker 1: Highway Patrol should ever released that investigative file because the

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Speaker 1: investigation did not close. Yes, when you close an investigation

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Speaker 1: and release the file, but this was turned into a cold,

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Speaker 1: cold crime case. It was never closed, and the file

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been released. I agree with that these people

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Speaker 1: that are being outed, Nancy, it would it causes other

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Speaker 1: people who may have wanted to come forward or have

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Speaker 1: an inkland Should I come forward? Or not come forward.

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Speaker 1: The fact that they're now being outed, I think could

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Speaker 1: be a situation where it retards somebody from coming forward.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's delate, dangerous and reckless. Guys. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at WTSC. He said he

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Speaker 1: went back the next day to see what it was

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Speaker 1: he had hid, and he's seen a lot of police

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Speaker 1: out there, so he talked a lot of comps and

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Speaker 1: then he had left, and then he learned I guess

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Speaker 1: by media that somebody had been killed in that same area.

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Speaker 1: The temps are told again. Person one was visibly distraught

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Speaker 1: with crying tell on him, and after he had finished

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Speaker 1: telling the story, he walked outside of his house and

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Speaker 1: threw up. So airing Bland, I agree, files are not

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Speaker 1: to be released until the investigation is over. This investigation

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Speaker 1: is going on, but come on, get real, Bland. They've

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Speaker 1: been Let me think of a right way to say

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Speaker 1: that I can actually say on air, screwing around says

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. What if we didn't know all this, they

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Speaker 1: may still be screwing around, okay, and we wouldn't know anything,

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Speaker 1: and they will be saying it's an ongoing investigation. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: if Steven Smith's mother had not started to go fund

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Speaker 1: me to exhume Steven's body, which I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about is she really having to pay for the

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Speaker 1: private autopsy? But that said, they were shamed into working

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Speaker 1: this case, and I'm embarrassed. I am former law enforcement

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Speaker 1: and they basically had to be shamed into doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Also to you, Bland, why is Randy Murdock part of

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Speaker 1: this telling a POI dad, stepfather, Hey, you better tell

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Speaker 1: police about your stepson and his buddy that hits Stephen

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Speaker 1: Smith in the road. Why is he doing that? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It seems like he's all over this case

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Speaker 1: because as you recall, he went to the accident scene

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Speaker 1: allegedly and also called Sandy Smith and her husband Joel,

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Speaker 1: who he was representing. So he seems to be on

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Speaker 1: all sides of this situation. I don't know, but that's

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Speaker 1: something for Sled to figure out. As to your commented,

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Speaker 1: has really picked up the ball? I like the way

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Speaker 1: that you didn't mention they dropped it, but I'm glad

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Speaker 1: they picked it up. Go ahead. They made a decision

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Speaker 1: that they needed to get the Alex Murdoch conviction so

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Speaker 1: that people will come forward and talk Nancy. They spent

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Speaker 1: one hundred one hundred thousand dollars at least on helping

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Speaker 1: me do the exhamation this weekend with doctor Dupree and

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Speaker 1: transporting the body to Florida, coming back and reinterning it.

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Speaker 1: That the number of officers that were dedicated to this

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Speaker 1: was extraordinary. We coordinated this and we had a small

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Speaker 1: window Wednesday night to make the plants to get the

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Speaker 1: exhamation done. I did not want the media to be there,

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Speaker 1: Certainly Sandy Smith didn't want it to be there, nor

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Speaker 1: did Chief Keel, and doctor Dupree was there on site,

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Speaker 1: my boots on the ground. We got the body out

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Speaker 1: Friday morning. She escorted it to Florida with Sled. With

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Speaker 1: the SLED patrol in front and behind of the vehicle

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Speaker 1: that Stephen was in, participated in the autopsy. The autopsy concluded,

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Speaker 1: we brought Stephen back and he was reinterned in a

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Speaker 1: new coughing Sunday afternoon. It just it was a perfect

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Speaker 1: weekend to give Sandy Smith some peace. Remember, it's an

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Speaker 1: extremely stressful time when you take your son out of

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Speaker 1: the ground. So I very much appreciate what Sled did

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Speaker 1: to make sure that this went through. You know what,

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Speaker 1: Eric Bland, I am too. You know, I'm a fan

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Speaker 1: of SLED after I saw what they did in the

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Speaker 1: Alex Marda prosecution. They went to any and all ethical

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Speaker 1: and moral lengths to secure that conviction. But I right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm having a hard time imagining what miss Smith

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Speaker 1: has been going through. Correct Because you know, I've shown

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Speaker 1: you so many pictures of my twins, John, David and Lucy.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine the pain and the grief that she's

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Speaker 1: already gone through and now having to go through the

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Speaker 1: excimation time stories with Nancy Grace. You all saw during

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Speaker 1: the Murdog double murder trial doctor Kenny Kenzie. Doctor Kenzie

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Speaker 1: put the lock on that conviction with his testimony, his

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Speaker 1: down to earth explanation, a very confusing technical evidence, and

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Speaker 1: that is what the jury needed to hear. That's what

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Speaker 1: I needed to hear. And to this day, I say

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Speaker 1: that is why top Mom Casey Anthony walked because there

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Speaker 1: was so much scientific and medical data to be unraveled.

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Speaker 1: There was just not a voice that explained it in

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Speaker 1: a way non technicians like myself can really understand. I'm

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Speaker 1: about to go to doctor Kenny Kenzie but I also

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Speaker 1: want you to know doctor Carl Omanley's with this clinical

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Speaker 1: psychologist and author and the renowned medical examiner who was

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Speaker 1: part of the exclamation of Steven Smith, doctor Michelle Duprie.

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Speaker 1: I'm proud to call her not only my colleague, but

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Speaker 1: my friend, doctor Kenny Kenzie. With Kenny Kenzie and associates,

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Speaker 1: forensic expert in the murder murder trial Orangebury County Chief

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Speaker 1: Deputy crime scene reconstructionist former sled on Twitter at doctor

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Kenzie. I mean, I could keep going, but I'm

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Speaker 1: running out of air, Doctor Kenny Kenzie. I would like

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Speaker 1: to hear your analysis of what we know so far

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Speaker 1: regarding Stephen Smith investigation. Thank you so much for a

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Speaker 1: little kind words, Miss Nancy all True. Well, we know

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Speaker 1: that they're the mother that needs Dancer, and you know

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Speaker 1: the natural progression of things, getting to bear your children,

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Speaker 1: but then the unthinkable happens. It's an awful long road

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Speaker 1: a home for a family, and we know we have

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Speaker 1: Stephen in the middle of that lonely road in Hampton County.

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Speaker 1: We know that there are many possibilities as to what

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Speaker 1: happened to Stephen. I'm just hoping that someone will come

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Speaker 1: forward or we can uncover, or we can assist SLED

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Speaker 1: in uncovering the truth. And whatever the truth is, I

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Speaker 1: just hope the Smith's family can gain a little bit

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Speaker 1: of solace from it. We've been boots on the ground

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Speaker 1: all weekend, just going and checking some things in Hampton.

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Speaker 1: I walked a lot more real estate than I've walked

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Speaker 1: in quite a while, and made some contacts and certainly

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Speaker 1: mister Bland and mister Richter, and we were passing those

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Speaker 1: on that information to SLED. And there's some things that

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do to with this parallel investigation, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just thankful to be here to lend assistance and hopefully

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Speaker 1: we can we can help get the Smith's family from

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Speaker 1: anthy Guys with me. I'm sure many of you became

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Speaker 1: a fan of doctor Kenneth Kenzie's when he was on

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Speaker 1: the stand in the Murderdog double murder trial, and I

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Speaker 1: agree with all your sentiments. Guys with me now. In

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Speaker 1: addition to doctor Carla Manley, is doctor Michelle Duprie, forensic pathologist,

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, and author of the Homicide Investigation

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Speaker 1: Field Guide. I think that says it all. Doctor Duprie,

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Speaker 1: tell me, without jeopardizing any future testimony that may be

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Speaker 1: that may occur, what went through your mind during your

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Speaker 1: part of the exhimation of Steven Smith's body. Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I was just happy that we were able to do it,

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Speaker 1: and do it, you know, quickly and quietly, and again

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Speaker 1: all of us just searching for the answers that are

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Speaker 1: going to give this family some some peace and some files.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think we got what we needed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you mean by that, could you explain?

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Speaker 1: Not really? I just think that, you know, exhuming the body,

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Speaker 1: having a second look autopsy, you know we're going to

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Speaker 1: get the answers that we need through the investigation. Did

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Speaker 1: you take the body? Did you go along with the

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Speaker 1: transport of the body? I did. I was there from

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Speaker 1: the time the body was removed from the ground until

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Speaker 1: it was put back into the ground the entire time.

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Speaker 1: The entire time, so you can vounce for any chain

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Speaker 1: of custody issues. Is that correct? Absolutely? As Ken sled,

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Speaker 1: they were there as well the entire time a police escort.

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Speaker 1: Did you agree with the procedures that were followed during

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Speaker 1: the exhimation and the autopsy the re autopsy of Steven Smith.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely did. It was very professional and it was

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Speaker 1: just by the book. What does that mean? Just by

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Speaker 1: the book? Again, very professional and done the way that

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Speaker 1: it should have been done from beginning to end. How

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Speaker 1: is the second autopsy of a body that has already

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Speaker 1: been involved, has already been buried for some time years

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Speaker 1: in this case, how is that different from an original autopsy? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, the body is different, it has changed, it

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Speaker 1: has already been autopsy, and so the condition of the

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Speaker 1: body is always a concern. But like I said, we

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Speaker 1: were able to do everything we needed to do and

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Speaker 1: do that second autopsy from beginning to end. We did

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Speaker 1: a complete second autopsy. Now I look at everything in

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Speaker 1: the world. I don't know if you're like this blend

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Speaker 1: after law school, but everything in my mind immediately it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm interpreting a language, a sentence from Spanish to English.

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Speaker 1: I'm interpreting. What does that mean? As far as evidence goes.

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Speaker 1: You are telling me that you quote got what you

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Speaker 1: think you needed in the second autopsy. That tells me

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Speaker 1: a even though you said there have been changes in

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Speaker 1: the body, that the body was intact to the extent

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Speaker 1: that you could perform a second autopsy. Is that correct, doctor, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and that the evolving process and the time buried did

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Speaker 1: not in any way impede your findings. That is correct

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Speaker 1: Where it was the autopsy performed Tampa, Florida with doctor

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Speaker 1: Schultz to Eric Blaine joining me, who is representing the

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith family. How did you decide on Schultz? It

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Speaker 1: was a combination between doctor Dupree, Ronnie Richter and me

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Speaker 1: and a number of people who offered suggestions. We also

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Speaker 1: had Heather Haney who is a anthropologist, Yeah, anthropologist, and

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Speaker 1: she Lenihan plus sent SLED, sent some officials that had

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Speaker 1: experience as well. Chief killed Nancy asked us to not

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Speaker 1: interfere at this time with the investigation, and we turned

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Speaker 1: over all the evidence that was gathered, the notes and

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Speaker 1: everything the SLED. He has promised me and from what

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Speaker 1: we've seen, I think he's going to follow through a

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Speaker 1: full bore investigation into Steven's death. He has committed to

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Speaker 1: a power. I don't have law enforcement authority. Doctor Kinsey

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Speaker 1: doesn't have law enforcement authority, but they have asked us

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Speaker 1: to assist on a parallel track, not doing interviews that

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Speaker 1: they should do and not interfering with persons of interest,

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Speaker 1: but a lot comes into us. Doctor Kinsey gets emails

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Speaker 1: and tips. I get emails and tips, and we're sharing

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Speaker 1: those with SLED. So I think we have a dual

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Speaker 1: investigation going on, with SLED having primary authority obviously, because

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Speaker 1: they can issue warrants and they can impadel grand jury

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Speaker 1: and do with things that we can't do. And I

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Speaker 1: am very, very enthusiastic and optimistic the progress is going

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Speaker 1: to be made. Look what we did in two weeks

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Speaker 1: of being retained. We were able to get the coroner,

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Speaker 1: the Department of Health Environmental Control to go along with

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Speaker 1: the zoom the body and do it outside the presence

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Speaker 1: of media, get it down the floor, to get it

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Speaker 1: a full autopsy done. The report I expect will be

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Speaker 1: coming this week. I understand the findings. Doctor Dupris certainly

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Speaker 1: knows the findings, and Chief Keel asked us not to

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Speaker 1: share those with the public because he feels it would

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Speaker 1: interfere with his investigation, and I have to go along

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Speaker 1: with it. Okay. Eric Bland is joining me, high profile

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Speaker 1: lawyer working on the case with Steven Smith's mom. So

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Speaker 1: you know the autopsy findings, but you're keeping them. Secret.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Secret's a tough word, but yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were not disclosing them to the public, which is contrary

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Speaker 1: to what I said. Going to do, Eric, how did

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Speaker 1: Steven Smith's body? How is it transported to Tampa by

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Speaker 1: playing it by car in a van. It stayed in

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Speaker 1: the vault. You can't open it up the coffin because

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Speaker 1: no air can get in it until you're in the

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Speaker 1: secure surgical room. And it was pulled out of the

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Speaker 1: ground by a crane with cables. Doctor Dupree oversaw that.

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Speaker 1: It was then taken to Somerville, South Carolina, to a

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Speaker 1: warehouse where it was transferred into a van. Led then

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Speaker 1: had their officers there with unmarked cars. We had unmarked

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Speaker 1: cars so that it looked like it was just a

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Speaker 1: funeral that was going on, and then they transported them

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Speaker 1: the Florida. Doctor Michelle Duprie drove along and all that

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Speaker 1: was done in twenty four hours. Just an amazing coordination

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Speaker 1: of a number of people. I've got a question, Lanne,

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Speaker 1: how did you keep it secret from the public? I

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Speaker 1: asked people during the weekend when I was getting media

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Speaker 1: requested that I was going to take off the weekend.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't feeling well, which is true with a surgery,

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Speaker 1: and we just cut off off all the phones and

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Speaker 1: nobody got wind of it. That's pretty amazing. Well, Steven

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Speaker 1: Smith's mother there was, she was. She was there with

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Speaker 1: David Moses and Mandy Matty, who are extremely close with her,

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Speaker 1: and my associate Scott and Jilla was there to Doctor

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Speaker 1: Carla Manley, clinical psychologist and author of Date Smart, Transforming

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Speaker 1: Relationships and Love Fearlessly. You can find her at doctor

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Speaker 1: Carla many dot com. Doctor Carla What type of emotional

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Speaker 1: trauma is this going to trigger for Steven Smith's mother

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Speaker 1: who's already been through so much and now she's back

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Speaker 1: when her son's body is lifted out of the earth

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Speaker 1: with a crane. It's absolutely heartbreaking. When you think about

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Speaker 1: the process of grief, where we have the loss, then

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Speaker 1: we begin the grieving process, then ideally we moved to closure.

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Speaker 1: That entire dynamic is extremely traumatizing, especially when it's a child.

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Speaker 1: In a situation like this, we enter the realm of

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Speaker 1: re traumatizing the parents, the family, and really complicating the

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Speaker 1: grief to a degree that it can take so much

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Speaker 1: more healing and professional support to move through these kind

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Speaker 1: of processes. It's incredibly difficult on the person's psyche. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll still recall my fiance's funeral when I learned that

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Speaker 1: he had been murdered, the burial. I can't even imagine

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Speaker 1: her standing there in the darkening hours, watching her son

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Speaker 1: being pulled out of the earth by a crying Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it's another level of trauma altogether. And I don't use

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Speaker 1: the word trauma lightly as a trauma specialist. I'm acutely

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Speaker 1: aware that this is what we call a big T trauma,

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Speaker 1: and the loss of a son is a big, big

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Speaker 1: T trauma. Loss of a child you go into and

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Speaker 1: exuming the body after trying to find peace year after year,

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Speaker 1: and then again to be retraumatized. Can't imagine what she's

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Speaker 1: going through. Jennifer Wood is joining me from fitz News.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at fitznews dot com on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Indie gen Underscore. Jennifer, again, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. What can you tell me about Steven Smith's

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Speaker 1: rape kit reportedly being lost and also the paint ships.

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Speaker 1: I believe that maybe blue they were found on either

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Speaker 1: his clothing or his body. Were they not found during

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Speaker 1: the initial autopsy? Were they actually found at the funeral home.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Sarah real quick. Yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna say

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Speaker 1: this only because I don't want Sled to get slammed anymore.

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Speaker 1: The rape kit has been located PTL rape kit located

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Speaker 1: and the paint ships were found and tested by the

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Speaker 1: slid lab. Wonderful. So they were found at the lab

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Speaker 1: and they were tested. Yea, and we do have the

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Speaker 1: rape kit. That's huge news. Jennifer Wood. Do you know

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Speaker 1: whether the paint chips are from a vehicle, But I

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Speaker 1: think they initially tested the paint chips back right after

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Speaker 1: the accident and said that, I mean, there were not

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Speaker 1: a lot of them, but they said that it could

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Speaker 1: have come from a nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: Toyota vehicle or some sort of industrial equipment. Forward. But guys,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the truck that we believe was involved in

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Speaker 1: the crash, not accident, crash that killed Stephen Smith, I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear what was said WTOC Listen. They

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Speaker 1: also say person too, the driver of the truck may

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Speaker 1: have tried to cover up evidence. Supposedly he had fixed

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Speaker 1: the mirror he had had passed it one of the

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Speaker 1: mirrors of both officers acknowledged this was the only concrete

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Speaker 1: lead they'd come across in this investigation. Will you know

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Speaker 1: I heard something rumors around film, but as far as

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Speaker 1: anything that I could say that had any kind of

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Speaker 1: possible validity would be when we live all right? Just

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Speaker 1: the only thing you've heard prior to this is rumors, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, what can you tell me? What if any

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Speaker 1: progress do you understand is being made regarding person of

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Speaker 1: interest one and two? Well, I mean our sources are

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Speaker 1: just totally enough that they're persons of interest. I think

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Speaker 1: they're running the investigation, I mean from scratch. I think

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Speaker 1: Eric probably can speak more to that. But my understanding is,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're going back through all of this stuff

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Speaker 1: they collected initially and reinterviewing people. Eric Bland joining US

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Speaker 1: attorney for Sandy Smith as well as the Saddlefield family. Eric,

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Speaker 1: are these two guys still living and are they in

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Speaker 1: the same area po I one and two. I do

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Speaker 1: not have any idea whether they're living where they are. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about it because I believe

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Speaker 1: talking about it hurts the investigation and causes other people

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Speaker 1: who may want to come forward, mistake to keep their

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Speaker 1: mask shut. And as doctor Kinsey said, this is a

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Speaker 1: case that isn't going to be solved by the scientific evidence.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be solved by somebody finally breaking the

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Speaker 1: seal and saying what happened, or a good piece of

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Speaker 1: information that they hurt at a party that will break

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Speaker 1: the investigation. And I think if we keep talking about

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Speaker 1: persons of interest, this thing is just going to die

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Speaker 1: without ever knowing how it happens. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: you would say that, because finding persons of interest and

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Speaker 1: I'm specifically not publicizing their names, right, let's let do that.

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Speaker 1: They're not gonna share them with me. Well, they don't

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Speaker 1: have to share them, they've been published, right. But that said,

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Speaker 1: there is another player in this who sheds light on

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Speaker 1: what happened the night Stephen Smith was killed. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut fifty three from WCIV Mate interviewed

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Speaker 1: dozens of people as they investigated Stephen's death in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: At the time, they interviewed Mark Burkhardt, a man who

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Speaker 1: says he was dating Stephen at the time of his death.

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Speaker 1: He says he spoke to Smith the morning he was

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Speaker 1: found in the middle of the road, and that the

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Speaker 1: last time they spoke was around three thirty am. I

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Speaker 1: asked him on one of the coals, are you walking,

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Speaker 1: because he already told me he was out of game.

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Speaker 1: He was running out of gas one of the coals before,

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Speaker 1: and I says, are you walking because I hear cars

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Speaker 1: going by and he his answer to me was numb.

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Speaker 1: And then the coal dropped. I couldn't come get him,

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Speaker 1: and that was what I was saying. I didn't have

428
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: enough gas and he didn't want me to come with

429
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: the guess that was in the car. So I believe

430
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood joining us from Fitz News, based on what

431
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: that one is his saying, we can safely assume that

432
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: he Stephen Smith, did in fact run out of gas

433
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: that night. Yeah, it sounds like based on communications with

434
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: this man who alleges he was dating Sun at the time,

435
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: he had gone out of gas and he didn't want

436
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: him to balk, but wasn't able to go get him too.

437
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Kenny Kenzie joining us, who we all saw all

438
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: the stand during the Alex Murdogue double murder trial. Doctor Kenzie,

439
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: what is your take on person of Interest one and two?

440
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean, the only way I can imagine that they

441
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: would not be involved somehow, as if the stepfather were

442
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: lying Nancy. You know, with critical incidents like these, a

443
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: lot of people will hear a little story, and sometimes

444
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: they will fabricate and add to it. I believe that's

445
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: FLED position, and like mister Bland said, we're going to

446
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: cooperate and pass on any information we get. But I've

447
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: got a lot of confidence in the men and women

448
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: at FLED, despite you know, anything that said to the contrary.

449
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: I believe they will locate these these two persons and

450
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: even more than just these two, and they're going to

451
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: get that information. But it is important that we identify

452
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: the rumors and we try to keep things from being

453
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: added to the story because that many times will send

454
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: them off down a rabbit hole and it takes away

455
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: from the good of the investigation and the accurate information.

456
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: So they have that information, they have many resources, and

457
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure if they haven't, they'll be speaking to those

458
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: individuals if possible, in the near future. Okay, I'm not

459
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: really sure what you just said in itality is being

460
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: plain spoken, but that sounded to me like you're dancing

461
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: around the question regarding person of Interest one and two.

462
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Person of Interest one's stepfather goes to police and said,

463
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: my step son was with p I two the night

464
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: Stevens Smith was killed. P I two ran over him

465
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: and Randy Murdoch told me to come talk to you.

466
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: Did do I? Do I have that right, Jennifer? Would?

467
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: Am I missing something? Now? That's certainly you certainly have

468
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: it right, Miss Nancy. But you know, there's there's two

469
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: ways to look at this, and I haven't boxed myself

470
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: in either way. One is that he was intentionally run over.

471
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: That would make it a crime. Someone hit him and

472
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: knew they hit him, That certainly would make it a crime.

473
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: He was killed somewhere else that would make it a crime,

474
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: or someone may be unaware. And I don't want to

475
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: box myself in or making an opinion at this point

476
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: in time because that will limit any help that I

477
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: may give to this investigation. So I'm just trying to

478
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: keep an open mind. But what I will say is

479
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: those persons of interest, if they haven't been interviewed by

480
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: PLED and if it's possible, I'm sure or there on

481
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: a golden rod somewhere to be interviewed, and I would

482
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: hate to jeopardize of it with any innuendo or anything.

483
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: I might add, Okay, point well take him time stories

484
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Jennifer would maybe I've somehow wandered into

485
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Alice in Wonderland, and maybe I'm the one that's completely wrong.

486
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: But I see it very clearly. Either the stepfather was

487
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: lying and the stepson didn't say that, or he's telling

488
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: the truth and the stepson did say that. Now, if

489
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: the stepson said it, we've got to figure out if

490
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: it was true. But do you at least agree with

491
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: me that far? Absolutely? I mean, the rumor Hampton is

492
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: a small community and the rumor mill is wild, for

493
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: lack of a better word. So I do think they're

494
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: probably going through all of this information from the initial

495
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: investigation and trying to discern what's rumors and what is not.

496
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: But to me, that is a clear yeah. We need

497
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: to look at it very closely, Doctor Michelle Duprey. With

498
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: the paint ships from a vehicle or from some other object, well,

499
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: we really don't know. It's the database only tells us

500
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: that it is either from those vehicles or from an

501
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: industrial object. What has been hanging over this case from

502
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the investigation Anna Steven Smith's case

503
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: is the name Murdog take us now cut fifty eight

504
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: from Corporal Michael Duncan. Other than Mark, has anybody else

505
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: Have you heard any rumors or anything like that other

506
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: than anything other than Mark rumors going around and that

507
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: everybody keeps coming up and saying it Murdoch, the Murdoch boys, Yeah,

508
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: every day, Okay, all right? And and when you say,

509
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: did they give any kind of description of what they

510
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: mean why they think it's the Murdoch boys. Okay. Busta

511
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: Murdoch has made it very clear. He has said point blank,

512
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with Steven Smith's death, and

513
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: my heart goes out to his mother. I think part

514
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: of the confusion, maybe Eric Bland, is that we keep

515
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: hearing the name Randy Murdoch, who is Alex Murdoch's brother,

516
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: who is Busta Murdoch's uncle, that he offered to represent

517
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: Steven Smith's family out of the blue, that he had

518
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: the stepfather go to police with this information that the

519
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: stepson said reportedly, it's just like apparently he boys at

520
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: the scene came to the scene the night the day

521
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: that Steven spins body was found. Is that right? You

522
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: seem to be stating all the facts that came out

523
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: of the investigative file, and certainly though as communicated by

524
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: the father saying that either he or PO two is

525
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: being represented by Randy Murdole. I assume that LED's going

526
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: to go talk to Randy Murdle, and I assume that

527
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: Randy Murtle will provide whatever explanation he has for being,

528
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, on all sides of the coin on this thing,

529
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: so to speak, or he'll voluntarily give a statement and

530
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: we'll know the answer. I just don't know. I don't know.

531
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: Chief Keel is not that telling me who he interviews

532
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: and who has been interviewed. He can't do that. I'm

533
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: not law enforcement. So I'm sure with the rumor mill,

534
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: somebody's going to find out, some good reporter like Jennifer Will,

535
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: We'll find out from a source that either Randy gave

536
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: a statement or was interviewed. Well, you know, I think

537
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: that's really how this has gotten so Murdoch focused. Jennifer

538
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: was joining me from FITZ News. Steven Smith's body is

539
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: found about eight minutes from Mozelle, the Murdock Hunting Lodge,

540
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: where Paul and Maggie were murdered, and now you've got

541
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: Randy Murdoch popping up all throughout the investigation, right, I

542
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: mean the investigation. The name Murdoch was mentioned more than

543
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: forty times during the course of the investigation, and of

544
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: course just because it said does not make it true.

545
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: Thank you all for being with us today. Again, we

546
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: are not naming the so called persons of interest and

547
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: the name of an uncontaminated, uncontaminated investigation. We wait as

548
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: justice un false. Goodbye friend,