1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin. After getting a super official autism diagnosis and mainlining 2 00:00:24,156 --> 00:00:27,516 Speaker 1: a bunch of books and movies and social media about autism, 3 00:00:27,916 --> 00:00:31,356 Speaker 1: and then having a few meltdowns and getting really frustrated, 4 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:35,036 Speaker 1: I decided it was time to do some revealing. And 5 00:00:35,236 --> 00:00:38,276 Speaker 1: when I started thinking about telling people, there was this 6 00:00:38,396 --> 00:00:41,556 Speaker 1: one thing I kept coming back to, a thing that 7 00:00:41,796 --> 00:00:44,236 Speaker 1: kind of gave me hope that it would all be okay. 8 00:00:46,156 --> 00:00:49,196 Speaker 1: A million years ago, back before the world melted down 9 00:00:49,236 --> 00:00:52,956 Speaker 1: in several different ways, I submitted a little audio story 10 00:00:53,036 --> 00:00:56,596 Speaker 1: to a contest. The prompt for the contest was the 11 00:00:56,716 --> 00:01:03,516 Speaker 1: five tastes Sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and Ummmy basically food stories. 12 00:01:04,436 --> 00:01:07,236 Speaker 1: Because I don't like a great many foods and don't 13 00:01:07,276 --> 00:01:10,116 Speaker 1: really come from a foodie family, I didn't have many 14 00:01:10,196 --> 00:01:14,196 Speaker 1: ready made stories to tell. My food tails mostly consist 15 00:01:14,276 --> 00:01:18,476 Speaker 1: of me not liking something, me hating something, or me 16 00:01:18,676 --> 00:01:21,876 Speaker 1: gagging at the very sight of something. As my mom 17 00:01:21,996 --> 00:01:26,276 Speaker 1: Cathy explained in My little Piece roll tape, you were 18 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:29,996 Speaker 1: very picky. You couldn't stand anything that was chunky. If 19 00:01:29,996 --> 00:01:32,996 Speaker 1: you would dig through any sauce to find a mushroom 20 00:01:33,076 --> 00:01:35,116 Speaker 1: and push it to the edge of your plate. Because 21 00:01:35,276 --> 00:01:37,676 Speaker 1: you didn't like the texture. You were really funny, not 22 00:01:37,716 --> 00:01:40,476 Speaker 1: a lot to work with, So in the spirit of 23 00:01:40,516 --> 00:01:43,756 Speaker 1: writing what you know, my contest entry was about how 24 00:01:43,836 --> 00:01:48,196 Speaker 1: much I can't stand potlucks. Potlocks are full of dishes 25 00:01:48,276 --> 00:01:51,956 Speaker 1: that feature ingredients I have no interest in putting in 26 00:01:52,036 --> 00:01:56,716 Speaker 1: my mouth because I simply cannot eat certain foods. Some 27 00:01:57,036 --> 00:02:01,996 Speaker 1: I can't even look at. I don't like peppers, eglans, zucchini, 28 00:02:02,116 --> 00:02:09,956 Speaker 1: summer squash, okra, the hard showers, keeper berries, peaches, slum, nectarines, mango, paya, guava, 29 00:02:09,996 --> 00:02:14,036 Speaker 1: and away cantelope, cilantro, still arugula, mescalin mix that looks 30 00:02:14,036 --> 00:02:17,716 Speaker 1: like weeds, almonds. My friends can't get over how much 31 00:02:17,796 --> 00:02:22,196 Speaker 1: I will not eat. For some my pickiness defies belief, 32 00:02:22,716 --> 00:02:26,916 Speaker 1: like how can you not eat cherries, blueberries, raspberries? What's 33 00:02:26,956 --> 00:02:31,156 Speaker 1: wrong with you? One pal was particularly tickled by the 34 00:02:31,236 --> 00:02:34,476 Speaker 1: list in my little pot luck slam piece because you 35 00:02:34,556 --> 00:02:37,956 Speaker 1: were like, oh, I have a few food phobias, and 36 00:02:37,996 --> 00:02:39,716 Speaker 1: I thought, like, you know, I've met a few people 37 00:02:39,716 --> 00:02:41,556 Speaker 1: in my life who have a few things they don't eat, 38 00:02:42,116 --> 00:02:44,956 Speaker 1: and then you whip out an entire like podcast about it, 39 00:02:44,996 --> 00:02:47,276 Speaker 1: and then the list is like longer I was like, 40 00:02:47,356 --> 00:02:49,036 Speaker 1: and then that, and then that, and then I can't 41 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:50,996 Speaker 1: do that. And then I was like, wait, what this 42 00:02:51,116 --> 00:02:54,996 Speaker 1: is like an encyclopedia of shape can't eat? What is 43 00:02:55,076 --> 00:02:58,276 Speaker 1: going on? My friend Carter is known for throwing great 44 00:02:58,316 --> 00:03:01,396 Speaker 1: dinner parties, and I swear that every time I've been 45 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:03,996 Speaker 1: invited to one, he's made me trot out the list 46 00:03:04,036 --> 00:03:07,316 Speaker 1: of foods I don't like. As a good Southern boy, 47 00:03:07,476 --> 00:03:10,476 Speaker 1: Carter grew up eating with his mom made him so 48 00:03:10,636 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 1: my epic list of do not eats was a curiosity 49 00:03:13,996 --> 00:03:17,116 Speaker 1: to him. He teased me about it endlessly, but in 50 00:03:17,156 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 1: a good nature, gay sibling kind of way. What neither 51 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:24,276 Speaker 1: Carter nor I knew at the time was that my 52 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:27,836 Speaker 1: food issues were an autistic trait, part of my suite 53 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:31,396 Speaker 1: of sensory issues. I just thought my food issues could 54 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:34,676 Speaker 1: be chalked up to my general weirdness and the choppy 55 00:03:34,716 --> 00:03:38,516 Speaker 1: way I moved through the world, So did Carter. Neither 56 00:03:38,596 --> 00:03:40,436 Speaker 1: of us had a clue they were part of a 57 00:03:40,556 --> 00:03:44,476 Speaker 1: larger condition. But then I figured it out, and I 58 00:03:44,516 --> 00:03:48,636 Speaker 1: told Carter the reason behind my finickiness. I mean, I 59 00:03:48,676 --> 00:03:54,396 Speaker 1: know enough about autism and the spectrum to have responded. 60 00:03:54,636 --> 00:03:57,396 Speaker 1: At the time, you told me about your food sensitivities. 61 00:03:57,396 --> 00:04:02,916 Speaker 1: Like in hindsight, I didn't even connect the dots of like, oh, 62 00:04:02,916 --> 00:04:06,716 Speaker 1: this could be narrative virgence in a way that I 63 00:04:06,756 --> 00:04:09,676 Speaker 1: need to like, not like I'm glad you experienced it 64 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:12,956 Speaker 1: as like positive ribbing, but I apologize that I did 65 00:04:12,996 --> 00:04:16,276 Speaker 1: not receive it as like hey, pease, don't no. I 66 00:04:16,316 --> 00:04:20,396 Speaker 1: mean look like I didn't know. But also I feel 67 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:23,596 Speaker 1: like I connect with people through teasing. That's like a 68 00:04:23,796 --> 00:04:27,076 Speaker 1: language that I understand, and it's an intimacy that I 69 00:04:27,116 --> 00:04:30,556 Speaker 1: can connect with. If you know me, you know I 70 00:04:30,636 --> 00:04:33,916 Speaker 1: love to tease and I love finding the levity and 71 00:04:33,996 --> 00:04:38,156 Speaker 1: hard things. After my diagnosis, when I started thinking about 72 00:04:38,356 --> 00:04:41,636 Speaker 1: telling my friends and family, I kept coming back to 73 00:04:41,716 --> 00:04:45,156 Speaker 1: my finickiness and this silly audio story and how Carter 74 00:04:45,276 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: always rased me about it. Even though he teased me, 75 00:04:48,596 --> 00:04:51,876 Speaker 1: it made me feel seen in a weird, sideways kind 76 00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 1: of way, and it allowed him to see me as well. 77 00:04:55,596 --> 00:04:58,156 Speaker 1: I love vulnerability. I love it when people are willing 78 00:04:58,196 --> 00:05:03,196 Speaker 1: to say, like, what's really going on and you sharing like, 79 00:05:03,436 --> 00:05:08,676 Speaker 1: here's this quirky, strange thing about me was like another 80 00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:12,316 Speaker 1: thing a long list of vulnerabilities that I felt like 81 00:05:12,476 --> 00:05:16,156 Speaker 1: you compared to others, like we're willing to share, which 82 00:05:16,276 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 1: deepened the closeness I felt with you. Carter's reaction to 83 00:05:21,836 --> 00:05:25,276 Speaker 1: something I felt pretty self conscious about growing up gave 84 00:05:25,316 --> 00:05:28,436 Speaker 1: me hope that revealing my truth would go roughly the 85 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:31,436 Speaker 1: same way I would tell the rest of my friends 86 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:35,596 Speaker 1: about my diagnosis, and like Carter, we would laugh about 87 00:05:35,676 --> 00:05:39,916 Speaker 1: how particular and fastidious and strange I am. We would 88 00:05:39,996 --> 00:05:42,716 Speaker 1: joke about how spectrumy I was being if I was 89 00:05:42,916 --> 00:05:47,436 Speaker 1: unintentionally rude or extremely late to dinner, and naturally my 90 00:05:47,596 --> 00:05:51,356 Speaker 1: neurodivergence would just be accepted and maybe even embraced, and 91 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:55,276 Speaker 1: everything would be chill. Now, I'm going to give you 92 00:05:55,396 --> 00:05:58,236 Speaker 1: one guess as to whether things turned out like that. 93 00:05:59,076 --> 00:06:04,596 Speaker 1: Go ahead, I'll wait. You're listening to the Loudest Girl 94 00:06:04,596 --> 00:06:07,196 Speaker 1: in the World. Who is not the chatty nurse drawing 95 00:06:07,236 --> 00:06:10,556 Speaker 1: your blood in the phlebotomy lab. It's me, Lauren Ober. 96 00:06:11,356 --> 00:06:13,476 Speaker 1: The Loudest Girl in the World is a show about 97 00:06:13,516 --> 00:06:17,236 Speaker 1: finding yourself broken in a pretty dark place and emerging 98 00:06:17,276 --> 00:06:24,956 Speaker 1: from that place some mostly glued back together person. One 99 00:06:24,996 --> 00:06:28,716 Speaker 1: thing I didn't anticipate when I was trundling down the diagnosis. 100 00:06:28,716 --> 00:06:32,356 Speaker 1: Path was the fact that if I was indeed autistic, 101 00:06:32,876 --> 00:06:35,276 Speaker 1: I would have to tell people I would have to 102 00:06:35,316 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 1: come out a second time. When I first came out, 103 00:06:39,836 --> 00:06:43,396 Speaker 1: way back before being gay was cool, it didn't exactly 104 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:47,436 Speaker 1: go smoothly. I'm not going to recount how clumsily I 105 00:06:47,556 --> 00:06:51,636 Speaker 1: handled the whole process back then. That's boring, but I 106 00:06:51,676 --> 00:06:54,516 Speaker 1: will tell you that when I told one family member 107 00:06:54,516 --> 00:06:57,596 Speaker 1: I was gay, I followed it up with something like, Oh, 108 00:06:57,756 --> 00:06:59,916 Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm not going to be an activist or 109 00:06:59,916 --> 00:07:03,916 Speaker 1: like waving the rainbow flag or cutting my hair short. Lol. 110 00:07:04,156 --> 00:07:07,316 Speaker 1: She says, as a person who has sported a great 111 00:07:07,476 --> 00:07:12,516 Speaker 1: many short undercuts, it took me years to be comfortable 112 00:07:12,516 --> 00:07:16,236 Speaker 1: in my own skin as a non heterosexual person. But 113 00:07:16,356 --> 00:07:19,116 Speaker 1: that was in my twenties. Now I was in my 114 00:07:19,196 --> 00:07:22,276 Speaker 1: forties and facing down the prospect of having to do 115 00:07:22,356 --> 00:07:26,796 Speaker 1: it all over again. But about autism, the difference though, 116 00:07:26,876 --> 00:07:29,276 Speaker 1: is that everyone knows what it means when you say 117 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:32,516 Speaker 1: you're gay. People might not like that you're gay, but 118 00:07:32,596 --> 00:07:36,996 Speaker 1: there's no question about what you're conveying. Autism is tougher 119 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:39,396 Speaker 1: to put your finger on it. I mentioned in the 120 00:07:39,436 --> 00:07:43,436 Speaker 1: previous episode the definition of autism is kind of squirreling. 121 00:07:44,076 --> 00:07:46,836 Speaker 1: If you ask ten people what autism is, you'll likely 122 00:07:46,916 --> 00:07:50,996 Speaker 1: get ten different responses, which means that if you want 123 00:07:51,036 --> 00:07:54,276 Speaker 1: to invite people into your reality, if you want to 124 00:07:54,276 --> 00:07:58,236 Speaker 1: build that intimacy, you're going to have to do some educating. 125 00:07:58,996 --> 00:08:02,396 Speaker 1: But how could I educate people when I barely understood 126 00:08:02,396 --> 00:08:05,876 Speaker 1: any of this myself. I figured I needed to call 127 00:08:05,956 --> 00:08:11,076 Speaker 1: in the big guns. My friend Anna Sayle is a 128 00:08:11,116 --> 00:08:14,396 Speaker 1: podcast host, a crack interviewer, and a person who laughs 129 00:08:14,396 --> 00:08:17,516 Speaker 1: at all of my dumb jokes. But for our purposes, 130 00:08:17,676 --> 00:08:20,436 Speaker 1: she's the author of the book Let's Talk About Hard 131 00:08:20,516 --> 00:08:23,596 Speaker 1: Things Now. When I think about what I want to 132 00:08:23,596 --> 00:08:26,596 Speaker 1: do in my free time, talking about hard things isn't 133 00:08:26,676 --> 00:08:29,796 Speaker 1: high on the list. But Anna's the host of the 134 00:08:29,836 --> 00:08:32,756 Speaker 1: show Death, Sex, and Money, so all she does is 135 00:08:32,796 --> 00:08:36,796 Speaker 1: talk about hard stuff. I figured she'd be the perfect 136 00:08:36,956 --> 00:08:39,436 Speaker 1: person to help me come up with a strategy for 137 00:08:39,676 --> 00:08:44,516 Speaker 1: telling people about my diagnosis, particularly my immediate family, who 138 00:08:44,556 --> 00:08:47,996 Speaker 1: I was nervous as hell to tell. First, I had 139 00:08:48,036 --> 00:08:51,236 Speaker 1: to tell Anna, so I called her up on Zoom, 140 00:08:51,236 --> 00:08:54,116 Speaker 1: and after rambling for a good ten minutes, I got 141 00:08:54,156 --> 00:08:57,476 Speaker 1: into it. I value your time, Anna, and I don't 142 00:08:57,516 --> 00:09:00,676 Speaker 1: mean to fill your brain with nonsense right now, because 143 00:09:00,676 --> 00:09:03,316 Speaker 1: we have business to attend. Yeah, I'm kind of curious, Lauren, 144 00:09:03,796 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 1: what I'm doing with you. You see this. I held 145 00:09:06,476 --> 00:09:08,716 Speaker 1: up a copy of Anna's book Let's Talk About Hard 146 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:13,436 Speaker 1: Things to the camera to this book, I do. I 147 00:09:13,516 --> 00:09:16,116 Speaker 1: read this book. Oh, you read it and it made 148 00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:19,676 Speaker 1: me scared. Oh, do both have this conversation with you? 149 00:09:20,196 --> 00:09:23,156 Speaker 1: And also to have the conversation that I need to have. 150 00:09:23,556 --> 00:09:25,916 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think I'm emotionally able to 151 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:30,956 Speaker 1: do any of this stuff. But in the spirit of 152 00:09:31,916 --> 00:09:35,836 Speaker 1: your book, and to prove to you that I both 153 00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:39,476 Speaker 1: read it and took lessons from it, I want to 154 00:09:39,516 --> 00:09:43,556 Speaker 1: preface our conversation by telling you that this is a 155 00:09:43,596 --> 00:09:49,076 Speaker 1: conversation both about a hard thing and how to talk 156 00:09:49,116 --> 00:09:52,996 Speaker 1: about a hard thing. In her book, Anna suggests that 157 00:09:53,116 --> 00:09:55,996 Speaker 1: you have to lay the foundation for a hard conversation 158 00:09:56,076 --> 00:09:59,396 Speaker 1: by telling people what to expect. You can't just sand 159 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:01,556 Speaker 1: bag them. I'm going to tell you a thing. And 160 00:10:01,596 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 1: the second is I need your help, Okay, to do 161 00:10:04,996 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 1: a good job. There. You did a great job. Thank you. 162 00:10:07,996 --> 00:10:11,916 Speaker 1: I actually think you did Rule number one of starting 163 00:10:11,956 --> 00:10:15,236 Speaker 1: a hard conversation helping the other person feel oriented so 164 00:10:15,236 --> 00:10:19,476 Speaker 1: they don't feel ambushed. So now I feel more comfortable 165 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:21,876 Speaker 1: to have this conversation with you because you've let me 166 00:10:21,916 --> 00:10:25,956 Speaker 1: in a little bit. Okay, so I should probably tell 167 00:10:25,996 --> 00:10:29,076 Speaker 1: you the hard thing. Okay, okay, And I already prefaced 168 00:10:29,076 --> 00:10:30,276 Speaker 1: it and already told you that I was going to 169 00:10:30,276 --> 00:10:33,516 Speaker 1: tell you the hard thing. So here's the situation in 170 00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:42,436 Speaker 1: twenty already screwed up. In November twenty twenty, I was 171 00:10:42,476 --> 00:10:47,916 Speaker 1: diagnosed with autism, which was something that I had been 172 00:10:48,076 --> 00:10:51,276 Speaker 1: thinking about for a long time, and then in the pandemic, 173 00:10:51,636 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 1: everything basically fell to pieces, like all my support structures, 174 00:10:55,636 --> 00:10:57,596 Speaker 1: like everything that I would do to sort of keep 175 00:10:57,636 --> 00:11:02,196 Speaker 1: my life like reasonably buoyant and all that kind of 176 00:11:02,516 --> 00:11:04,716 Speaker 1: went to shit. But the point that I'm trying to 177 00:11:04,756 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: tell you is that apparently I'm autistic according to science, 178 00:11:10,076 --> 00:11:14,756 Speaker 1: and I have a hard time conveying that to people. Now, Okay, 179 00:11:16,476 --> 00:11:19,516 Speaker 1: that's where you start talking, because I'm I'm I'm not 180 00:11:19,556 --> 00:11:21,716 Speaker 1: going to continue even though I just started continue talking. 181 00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 1: I know this trick. Well, I'm taking in this information, 182 00:11:26,236 --> 00:11:28,836 Speaker 1: I mean, and it's interesting because you just told me 183 00:11:28,876 --> 00:11:32,516 Speaker 1: the hard thing, so I couldn't, like I can tell 184 00:11:32,556 --> 00:11:35,396 Speaker 1: you what my experience that was of how you just 185 00:11:35,516 --> 00:11:40,516 Speaker 1: told me and where I have questions if that would 186 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:44,236 Speaker 1: be helpful. Oh yeah, please, Well, what I noticed when 187 00:11:44,276 --> 00:11:48,796 Speaker 1: you first started, you blurted out the hard thing, which 188 00:11:48,836 --> 00:11:50,756 Speaker 1: is fine because you're like, I'm going to tell you 189 00:11:50,796 --> 00:11:54,036 Speaker 1: a hard thing. Here it is I was diagnosed with autism. 190 00:11:54,076 --> 00:11:57,156 Speaker 1: And then you went back and you said, in November 191 00:11:57,196 --> 00:12:02,876 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, my whole support system fell away, and I 192 00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:06,996 Speaker 1: realized I needed to get a diagnosed or talk to 193 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:10,996 Speaker 1: some people like I didn't. Nope, if that was going 194 00:12:11,036 --> 00:12:12,836 Speaker 1: on to be the hard thing, do you know what 195 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:15,636 Speaker 1: I mean? So Narratively, what you're telling me is that 196 00:12:15,716 --> 00:12:18,756 Speaker 1: I have a narrative issue. Well, I'm telling you I 197 00:12:18,796 --> 00:12:25,316 Speaker 1: have a timing I have a narrative sequencing issue. Well okay, 198 00:12:25,436 --> 00:12:28,196 Speaker 1: so right off the bat, I'm crushing it. Well done me. 199 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:32,876 Speaker 1: I kept going telling Anna about my inability to background 200 00:12:32,956 --> 00:12:36,396 Speaker 1: certain sensory experiences and how much effort it takes to 201 00:12:36,596 --> 00:12:39,956 Speaker 1: appear like a regular old person, as someone who cares 202 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:43,196 Speaker 1: about you. And I'm not your family, but I delight 203 00:12:43,236 --> 00:12:46,116 Speaker 1: in you and have long considered you a friend. It's 204 00:12:46,196 --> 00:12:50,436 Speaker 1: interesting that what you're describing is both these things I 205 00:12:50,516 --> 00:12:53,316 Speaker 1: know about you from knowing you well. You know, like 206 00:12:53,676 --> 00:12:56,556 Speaker 1: that you are a boundary crosser and conversation. I love 207 00:12:56,596 --> 00:13:00,796 Speaker 1: that shit. That's why I like, that's why we became friends, 208 00:13:00,836 --> 00:13:04,716 Speaker 1: I think. But what's new to me, like what you're 209 00:13:04,796 --> 00:13:07,836 Speaker 1: expressing about the amount of energy and stress that you 210 00:13:07,916 --> 00:13:11,756 Speaker 1: feel from something that catches your attention that you wish 211 00:13:11,796 --> 00:13:16,036 Speaker 1: you could background and can't, or the amount of energy 212 00:13:16,076 --> 00:13:18,956 Speaker 1: you have to put into seeming comfortable when you're not. 213 00:13:19,516 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 1: That makes me think, oh, this is like a new 214 00:13:22,996 --> 00:13:27,556 Speaker 1: way that I'm understanding Lauren, which is that like maybe 215 00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:30,956 Speaker 1: she was having a harder time than I knew when 216 00:13:30,996 --> 00:13:35,716 Speaker 1: we were together. And I think the thing that I 217 00:13:35,716 --> 00:13:40,956 Speaker 1: think about with disclosing anything hard to people who love you, 218 00:13:41,956 --> 00:13:44,956 Speaker 1: there's this thing that happens where you're saying, I have 219 00:13:45,036 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 1: this name for something that is part of me that 220 00:13:47,996 --> 00:13:51,476 Speaker 1: we haven't previously had, and it might be a name 221 00:13:51,476 --> 00:13:54,436 Speaker 1: that you don't totally understand what it means. But also 222 00:13:54,436 --> 00:13:57,356 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you, you know things some ways 223 00:13:57,356 --> 00:14:00,156 Speaker 1: I was experiencing things that maybe you weren't aware that 224 00:14:00,196 --> 00:14:02,316 Speaker 1: I was having a hard time or suffering and you 225 00:14:02,316 --> 00:14:05,676 Speaker 1: didn't know. But Anna said, having a name for something 226 00:14:05,756 --> 00:14:09,636 Speaker 1: can compound the challenge of telling people like the big 227 00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:13,596 Speaker 1: hard news is I have this name for something about 228 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 1: myself that we didn't previously have, and and it's a 229 00:14:17,276 --> 00:14:20,756 Speaker 1: name that brings up a lot of associations that like 230 00:14:20,876 --> 00:14:25,916 Speaker 1: will raise questions for you. And then the conversation is 231 00:14:25,916 --> 00:14:28,516 Speaker 1: like going to get confused because there's like these two paths. 232 00:14:28,516 --> 00:14:31,436 Speaker 1: There's this like, let me explain what being autistic means. 233 00:14:31,596 --> 00:14:33,476 Speaker 1: Let me explain what it means to be an autistic woman. 234 00:14:33,956 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 1: And then there's this other thing, which is like I 235 00:14:36,916 --> 00:14:39,836 Speaker 1: also want to tell you about how I now understand 236 00:14:39,876 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: myself and how I've moved through the world slightly differently, 237 00:14:43,036 --> 00:14:46,236 Speaker 1: Like which is not a Wikipedia page, This is you 238 00:14:46,476 --> 00:14:51,956 Speaker 1: personally disclosing, right right. I do feel as a reporter 239 00:14:52,356 --> 00:14:56,436 Speaker 1: or as a person who is a conduit for information, 240 00:14:56,956 --> 00:14:59,716 Speaker 1: I feel like it's very easy to fall back into 241 00:14:59,756 --> 00:15:02,596 Speaker 1: that and be like in reporter mode, like this is 242 00:15:02,596 --> 00:15:04,476 Speaker 1: what it is, the pappapa, like the who, what, when, 243 00:15:04,556 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: where why kind of situation, and then sort of skip 244 00:15:07,756 --> 00:15:11,316 Speaker 1: over the heart where it's like, yeah, I've actually been 245 00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:18,356 Speaker 1: having a hard time for like forty three years, so 246 00:15:19,156 --> 00:15:21,956 Speaker 1: you know, and you're just like, Okay, I told you, Like, 247 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:28,956 Speaker 1: job's done. Like yeah, there has got to be an 248 00:15:29,036 --> 00:15:32,796 Speaker 1: easy way to just like bing bang boom this. There's 249 00:15:32,796 --> 00:15:36,036 Speaker 1: this book that I love and I just want to 250 00:15:36,076 --> 00:15:38,236 Speaker 1: hand it out to everybody. And it's like forty some 251 00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:42,316 Speaker 1: pages and it's this really lovely graphic novel that's just 252 00:15:42,356 --> 00:15:46,716 Speaker 1: about women and autism and it's perfect. I'm like, read this. 253 00:15:47,676 --> 00:15:52,636 Speaker 1: If you have any questions, email me. But you can't 254 00:15:52,676 --> 00:15:55,116 Speaker 1: do that, can you. You can just give somebody a 255 00:15:55,156 --> 00:15:59,636 Speaker 1: pamphlet and say, like figure it out yourself, you know, 256 00:16:00,996 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 1: well you can give them the book, but it's it's 257 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:05,916 Speaker 1: not one and done. Like that's the thing about I 258 00:16:05,916 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: think the thing that is can be really comforting when 259 00:16:08,236 --> 00:16:11,116 Speaker 1: you're thinking about I have to start a her conversation 260 00:16:11,316 --> 00:16:13,636 Speaker 1: or disclose a hard thing. It's like you're not going 261 00:16:13,676 --> 00:16:18,316 Speaker 1: to get it all done in one conversation, Like, oh 262 00:16:18,996 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: you can't what this is terrible? Oh so many things 263 00:16:29,516 --> 00:16:34,876 Speaker 1: to think about. Vulnerability is not fun. But I told 264 00:16:34,916 --> 00:16:37,996 Speaker 1: Anna about my diagnosis and it went well. I mean, 265 00:16:38,036 --> 00:16:40,236 Speaker 1: if there was ever a good person to role play 266 00:16:40,276 --> 00:16:43,276 Speaker 1: hard stuff with, it's her. Plus she gave me some 267 00:16:43,276 --> 00:16:47,316 Speaker 1: good advice. Our chat primed the pump. What really did 268 00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:50,316 Speaker 1: it for me, though, was this one line from Anna's book, 269 00:16:51,036 --> 00:16:55,596 Speaker 1: If I may quote a young American writer and a 270 00:16:55,716 --> 00:17:00,556 Speaker 1: sale part of what is so hard about identity conversations 271 00:17:00,676 --> 00:17:02,996 Speaker 1: is they are at once deeply personal and sweeping in 272 00:17:03,036 --> 00:17:05,836 Speaker 1: their scope. And that's the hard thing, isn't it. It's 273 00:17:05,876 --> 00:17:09,436 Speaker 1: like I can do the sweeping, it's the personal part 274 00:17:09,476 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 1: of it that actually feels like really hard. But that 275 00:17:18,036 --> 00:17:21,436 Speaker 1: wasn't something Anna could help me with. Also, when I 276 00:17:21,476 --> 00:17:23,396 Speaker 1: asked her if she could just call out my people 277 00:17:23,396 --> 00:17:26,596 Speaker 1: and tell them for me, she said, no, excuse me, 278 00:17:26,756 --> 00:17:31,236 Speaker 1: that is extremely uncharitable of her. So I was on 279 00:17:31,276 --> 00:17:37,236 Speaker 1: my own after the break disclosure time, well kind of. 280 00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:50,636 Speaker 1: It was time to start letting folks into my reality. 281 00:17:50,996 --> 00:17:53,876 Speaker 1: The steaks seemed too high to tell my family just yet, 282 00:17:54,156 --> 00:17:56,876 Speaker 1: so I figured I'd start with a low hanging fruit 283 00:17:57,316 --> 00:17:59,676 Speaker 1: friends who had known me for a long time or 284 00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:03,276 Speaker 1: were equally weird. That seems safe enough, and like if 285 00:18:03,316 --> 00:18:07,436 Speaker 1: I screwed up, who cares? So not long after my diagnosis, 286 00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:09,476 Speaker 1: I called up my friend Molly and to her if 287 00:18:09,476 --> 00:18:11,436 Speaker 1: we could go for a walk in her neighborhood. I 288 00:18:11,436 --> 00:18:14,716 Speaker 1: don't know if I told you this, but I was 289 00:18:14,756 --> 00:18:18,236 Speaker 1: getting an autism evaluation or I have been Okay, did 290 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:21,596 Speaker 1: I tell you that? No, You're like, no, I think 291 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:24,756 Speaker 1: i'd remember that, right, Okay, pretty sure, I'm killing it. 292 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:26,956 Speaker 1: So I've been talking about it with my therapist for 293 00:18:26,996 --> 00:18:32,036 Speaker 1: a long time and then but I could never like 294 00:18:32,156 --> 00:18:39,636 Speaker 1: pull the trigger. And so it's the point because when 295 00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:42,556 Speaker 1: I asked my therapist if like, hey, I might be autistic, 296 00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:46,036 Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, you might be, Like you might be 297 00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:48,396 Speaker 1: somewhere on the spectrum. I'm like that that would make sense. 298 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:50,996 Speaker 1: Molly and I have always said we share a brain. 299 00:18:51,356 --> 00:18:54,396 Speaker 1: So if I was diagnosed, Molly wondered what that meant 300 00:18:54,436 --> 00:18:58,116 Speaker 1: for her, which I think the answer is nothing much. 301 00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:00,316 Speaker 1: What is finding out? What did that do for you? 302 00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:03,956 Speaker 1: That's a really good question. Here's how I would describe it. 303 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:13,236 Speaker 1: Let's say that you have a series of symptoms, physical symptoms. Yeah, 304 00:19:13,436 --> 00:19:17,836 Speaker 1: you get headaches, solid time, you're tired, Ye, your back hurts. Yeah. 305 00:19:18,476 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out if all these this collection 306 00:19:21,836 --> 00:19:26,876 Speaker 1: of things is related, right, and if so, what's the 307 00:19:26,996 --> 00:19:30,556 Speaker 1: name for it? Actually, I might be doing an okay 308 00:19:30,676 --> 00:19:32,796 Speaker 1: job here, I guess so that I think of it 309 00:19:32,836 --> 00:19:35,756 Speaker 1: as like Okay, like dyslexia, right, Like you have all 310 00:19:35,796 --> 00:19:38,276 Speaker 1: these problems in class or something, and then you know, 311 00:19:38,396 --> 00:19:41,436 Speaker 1: finally it's like, oh, well I have dyslexia. But then 312 00:19:41,756 --> 00:19:44,596 Speaker 1: there are there are treatments and there's ways to deal 313 00:19:44,636 --> 00:19:47,156 Speaker 1: with that and work around it is the same and 314 00:19:47,196 --> 00:19:50,036 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's the same thing true of you know, 315 00:19:50,116 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 1: somewhere on the spectrum autism. I think that it's like 316 00:19:54,316 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 1: a framework for understanding kind of like your whole fucking 317 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:04,916 Speaker 1: life and all of your challenges and just like it 318 00:20:05,036 --> 00:20:11,636 Speaker 1: seems to me that a collection of challenge is that 319 00:20:12,356 --> 00:20:19,436 Speaker 1: involve social issues, sensory issues, relational issues, especially when you're 320 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:24,796 Speaker 1: a woman, is very isolating. Yeah, and so is there 321 00:20:24,836 --> 00:20:28,956 Speaker 1: a way to feel less isolated? Am I so good 322 00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:33,196 Speaker 1: at this? I think I might be so anyway? Yeah, 323 00:20:33,276 --> 00:20:38,476 Speaker 1: so I'm autistic apparently, Okay, Well it doesn't phase the 324 00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:40,516 Speaker 1: way I view you, Oh fash, I kind of knew 325 00:20:40,556 --> 00:20:43,396 Speaker 1: you were could of a crack pie, because it's like 326 00:20:43,476 --> 00:20:50,876 Speaker 1: looking in the mirror. So Molly was kind and lovely 327 00:20:50,956 --> 00:20:53,636 Speaker 1: and had lots of good questions. But it felt good 328 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:57,276 Speaker 1: to unburden myself and have the feeling like, yeah, I 329 00:20:57,396 --> 00:21:01,196 Speaker 1: got this I'd rate my performance and eight out of ten, 330 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:05,556 Speaker 1: give myself a little headroom to improve. Next up, I 331 00:21:05,716 --> 00:21:09,076 Speaker 1: zoomed with my pals Laura and Megan, but I forgot 332 00:21:09,276 --> 00:21:12,676 Speaker 1: to press record, so I didn't capture the actual moment 333 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 1: of revelation. Megan kindly offered a redo. If you want 334 00:21:17,556 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: to start it over, we can go ooh at every 335 00:21:20,476 --> 00:21:27,596 Speaker 1: single stage. I don't think that's quite necessary. Yeah, the 336 00:21:27,676 --> 00:21:32,436 Speaker 1: ooz and oz though they were quite good. They were good. 337 00:21:33,196 --> 00:21:36,076 Speaker 1: Then we just started talking about cucumbers, as you do 338 00:21:36,156 --> 00:21:40,236 Speaker 1: after any intense conversation. This particular cumber is not as 339 00:21:40,236 --> 00:21:43,676 Speaker 1: good as the other ones. Is there anything on it? 340 00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:49,556 Speaker 1: A little huss Himalayan sea salt. Oh, look at you, 341 00:21:49,836 --> 00:21:55,636 Speaker 1: classy bitch. But we weren't just goofing. We got into it. 342 00:21:55,956 --> 00:21:58,956 Speaker 1: I told them all about masking and how hard it 343 00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:03,316 Speaker 1: is to constantly camouflage your anxiety or weirdness or stimming 344 00:22:03,396 --> 00:22:06,956 Speaker 1: or whatever. Do you feel like having a diagnosis will 345 00:22:06,996 --> 00:22:10,436 Speaker 1: allow you to give yourself permission to not have to 346 00:22:10,516 --> 00:22:14,196 Speaker 1: mask and to just like do things that are comforting, 347 00:22:14,356 --> 00:22:16,436 Speaker 1: or just to like lean in and like let go 348 00:22:16,476 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 1: of some of like because it sounds like the mostly 349 00:22:18,676 --> 00:22:22,516 Speaker 1: exhausting part is like the masking part, right, Yeah, yeah, 350 00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:24,836 Speaker 1: that's a really good question. And I don't know. There 351 00:22:24,836 --> 00:22:27,676 Speaker 1: are ways you can take control over the anxiety by 352 00:22:27,716 --> 00:22:30,316 Speaker 1: acting a particular way or being in a particular way, 353 00:22:30,316 --> 00:22:33,196 Speaker 1: And there are ways that you can show up that 354 00:22:33,276 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 1: feel true to you that might not be your entire personality, 355 00:22:37,396 --> 00:22:41,156 Speaker 1: but that also can make other people feel okay, and 356 00:22:41,276 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 1: that's okay for me. Like I like that. I like that. 357 00:22:44,036 --> 00:22:47,636 Speaker 1: I've kind of figured that out. And when I need 358 00:22:47,676 --> 00:22:49,356 Speaker 1: to leave and go to my room or go to 359 00:22:49,396 --> 00:22:57,956 Speaker 1: the bathroom nine hundred times, I will do that. Oh man, 360 00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:01,996 Speaker 1: I am cruising at this point. Everyone gets it, Everyone 361 00:23:02,156 --> 00:23:06,196 Speaker 1: is kind, everyone is saying the right thing. This reveal 362 00:23:06,316 --> 00:23:08,876 Speaker 1: gets a nine out of ten. It would have gotten 363 00:23:08,876 --> 00:23:11,236 Speaker 1: ten across the board, but I was making weird chewing 364 00:23:11,276 --> 00:23:16,996 Speaker 1: sounds while I was talking, so demerit for me. Next, 365 00:23:17,036 --> 00:23:19,396 Speaker 1: I drove to Northern Virginia to take a walk with 366 00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,076 Speaker 1: my friend Emily. I've known her since I was a 367 00:23:22,116 --> 00:23:24,516 Speaker 1: little shit twenty three year old, so I knew she 368 00:23:24,556 --> 00:23:27,556 Speaker 1: would be cool. In our twenty years of friendship, Emily 369 00:23:27,676 --> 00:23:31,676 Speaker 1: supported me through big life stuff, coming out, losing jobs, 370 00:23:31,836 --> 00:23:36,076 Speaker 1: ending relationships, euthanizing dogs and deciding what eyeglasses to buy. 371 00:23:36,916 --> 00:23:39,716 Speaker 1: We're in the suburb, so we're basically walking on a highway, 372 00:23:39,916 --> 00:23:42,276 Speaker 1: which seems like the perfect place to talk about how 373 00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:45,516 Speaker 1: I manage my anxiety. So I don't have many meltdowns. 374 00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:51,596 Speaker 1: Now I have like these weird coping mechanisms for like, 375 00:23:52,276 --> 00:23:54,396 Speaker 1: you know, like do I have my lip bomb? Do 376 00:23:54,436 --> 00:23:56,996 Speaker 1: I have my eyeglasses cleaner? Like do I always have 377 00:23:57,076 --> 00:23:58,876 Speaker 1: water when I go on an airplane? Like? Do I 378 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:00,796 Speaker 1: have all these things? If I don't have them? And 379 00:24:00,876 --> 00:24:03,476 Speaker 1: now it's like when I travel, do I have clonupin 380 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:05,476 Speaker 1: in my bag just in case I'll never use it? 381 00:24:06,076 --> 00:24:08,596 Speaker 1: But it's like all of these things, and so it's 382 00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:12,596 Speaker 1: like you build hold up these little almost like ticks. Yeah, 383 00:24:12,636 --> 00:24:13,676 Speaker 1: I need to have it. I need to have it 384 00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:17,836 Speaker 1: right and obsive compulsively in a way because there's there, Yeah, 385 00:24:17,836 --> 00:24:20,916 Speaker 1: there's two crossovers to go to seven eleven so I 386 00:24:20,916 --> 00:24:24,916 Speaker 1: can get marshmallows grow. Nos, Are you kidding me? Who 387 00:24:24,956 --> 00:24:26,716 Speaker 1: even knew there was a seven eleven round? You? Do 388 00:24:26,756 --> 00:24:31,196 Speaker 1: you think that? Wait? Really, this wasteland, this is my 389 00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:35,596 Speaker 1: ideal disclosure scenario. We talk a little about autism and 390 00:24:35,636 --> 00:24:38,116 Speaker 1: then we go to the seven to eleven to get marshmallows. 391 00:24:38,316 --> 00:24:41,156 Speaker 1: It's really hitting all of my buttons, easy, ten out 392 00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:45,396 Speaker 1: of ten. At that point, a few months out from 393 00:24:45,396 --> 00:24:48,076 Speaker 1: my diagnosis, I felt like I was starting to get 394 00:24:48,116 --> 00:24:50,676 Speaker 1: my sea legs under me in terms of talking to friends. 395 00:24:51,396 --> 00:24:54,716 Speaker 1: But while I'd been doing a pretty okay job articulating 396 00:24:54,756 --> 00:24:59,516 Speaker 1: my reality and fielding questions, I was far from understanding everything. 397 00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:02,876 Speaker 1: By telling friends who already knew a lot of my ship, 398 00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:06,196 Speaker 1: I had the illusion of control. I could guess which 399 00:25:06,276 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 1: questions they would ask and what their reactions would be 400 00:25:09,276 --> 00:25:12,836 Speaker 1: to my answers, and even if they didn't quite get it, 401 00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:17,396 Speaker 1: I could count on them working hard to understand. So 402 00:25:18,236 --> 00:25:21,596 Speaker 1: enter stage left a false sense of security and its 403 00:25:21,636 --> 00:25:38,756 Speaker 1: best friend cockiness. I was starting to feel pleased with 404 00:25:38,796 --> 00:25:42,716 Speaker 1: myself and wanted to tell more folks beyond the inner sanctum. 405 00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:44,716 Speaker 1: I started to feel like I was keeping a secret, 406 00:25:44,796 --> 00:25:47,156 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to live my truth. And my 407 00:25:47,236 --> 00:25:49,716 Speaker 1: truth is that I'm an autistic woman who loves to 408 00:25:49,716 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 1: watch fail videos and YouTube makeup tutorials. While I was 409 00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:57,956 Speaker 1: committed to broadening the circle of people I told, I 410 00:25:57,996 --> 00:26:01,356 Speaker 1: was anxious. I wouldn't get the response I wanted. Even 411 00:26:01,396 --> 00:26:03,796 Speaker 1: before I got tested, I told a few people that 412 00:26:03,876 --> 00:26:05,996 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it, and they basically laughed in 413 00:26:06,076 --> 00:26:09,676 Speaker 1: my face, like, girl, there's no way you're autistic. So 414 00:26:09,876 --> 00:26:12,556 Speaker 1: I didn't want to repeat of being vulnerable and then 415 00:26:12,636 --> 00:26:15,956 Speaker 1: having that plot back in my lap when it was 416 00:26:15,996 --> 00:26:18,636 Speaker 1: safe to do indoor hangs. Because we were all vaxed 417 00:26:18,676 --> 00:26:22,556 Speaker 1: to the max, some friends had a Shabbat dinner. After dinner, 418 00:26:22,596 --> 00:26:25,476 Speaker 1: everyone went around the table and one at a time 419 00:26:25,596 --> 00:26:29,156 Speaker 1: talked about how their pandemic had been. Folks explained that 420 00:26:29,236 --> 00:26:32,076 Speaker 1: they got more into their djaying, or bought a house, 421 00:26:32,236 --> 00:26:35,556 Speaker 1: or did some serious soul searching. When it was my turn, 422 00:26:35,596 --> 00:26:38,036 Speaker 1: and I decided on the fly that I would reveal 423 00:26:38,116 --> 00:26:41,436 Speaker 1: my diagnosis. I hit record on my phone's voice memo 424 00:26:41,476 --> 00:26:45,356 Speaker 1: app and quickly thought about and a sales approach. Tell 425 00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:48,036 Speaker 1: them I had been struggling for a while, describe what 426 00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:51,636 Speaker 1: the struggle was about, and then tell them about the diagnosis, 427 00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:54,236 Speaker 1: and then, once all that was out of the way, 428 00:26:54,436 --> 00:26:57,116 Speaker 1: explain what autism is, and then pat myself on the 429 00:26:57,116 --> 00:27:00,716 Speaker 1: back for a job well done. Except here's how it 430 00:27:00,796 --> 00:27:07,236 Speaker 1: actually went. Yeah, where I'm at okay In November twenty 431 00:27:07,276 --> 00:27:11,396 Speaker 1: twenty eight, I was diagnosed with autism. And I don't 432 00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:16,836 Speaker 1: really talk about it, but I'm doing a podcast about it, 433 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:21,796 Speaker 1: and so that is a thing that I've been dealing 434 00:27:21,876 --> 00:27:27,516 Speaker 1: with since November twenty twenty. My voice was shaking. I 435 00:27:27,516 --> 00:27:31,756 Speaker 1: couldn't make eye contact. I was so nervous, not least 436 00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:35,156 Speaker 1: because the dinner was composed mostly of gorgeous gay men. 437 00:27:35,516 --> 00:27:37,436 Speaker 1: And do you even know what it's like to have 438 00:27:37,516 --> 00:27:41,916 Speaker 1: a dozen painfully attractive gentleman staring at you while you're 439 00:27:41,956 --> 00:27:47,276 Speaker 1: saying a hard thing. I promise it will make you sweat. Also, 440 00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:50,036 Speaker 1: I had to put my dog down, and also I 441 00:27:50,036 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 1: lost my job, but then I got a new job, 442 00:27:53,396 --> 00:27:55,276 Speaker 1: and then I got another new job, and now I 443 00:27:55,316 --> 00:28:02,236 Speaker 1: have too many jobs. But also but so and a 444 00:28:02,316 --> 00:28:05,676 Speaker 1: new dog, and Hanna moved to the neighborhood and that 445 00:28:05,836 --> 00:28:07,756 Speaker 1: is amazing because we walked back and forth through each 446 00:28:07,796 --> 00:28:12,396 Speaker 1: other's houses two blocks, fifteen times a day. Um. And 447 00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:15,516 Speaker 1: we have a feral cat that follows us between the houses. 448 00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:20,796 Speaker 1: So that's pretty cute. Um. It actually already came with 449 00:28:20,876 --> 00:28:25,956 Speaker 1: three names, Socks, Hugo, and Cairo, so we couldn't name it. 450 00:28:26,196 --> 00:28:28,476 Speaker 1: It depends on where on the block you are. Okay, 451 00:28:28,596 --> 00:28:31,796 Speaker 1: it's gotten different names every place. Listening to this now, 452 00:28:31,836 --> 00:28:35,876 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed for myself. I didn't follow any of Anna's guidance, 453 00:28:35,876 --> 00:28:39,476 Speaker 1: and I was just dancing around my truth. You know 454 00:28:39,636 --> 00:28:45,156 Speaker 1: so so yeah, so, um, keep your ears open. Oh 455 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:49,196 Speaker 1: my god. Truly the most mortifying. I basically ended my 456 00:28:49,276 --> 00:28:52,716 Speaker 1: declaration with a plug for my podcast, like, do I 457 00:28:52,876 --> 00:28:56,756 Speaker 1: even know how to be vulnerable without being maximally awkward? 458 00:28:58,596 --> 00:29:01,956 Speaker 1: Now you can imagine I'm sweating my teas off desperately 459 00:29:01,996 --> 00:29:04,396 Speaker 1: trying to reel this lead balloon back in. I mean, 460 00:29:04,436 --> 00:29:07,916 Speaker 1: it's like regret, regret, regret. I couldn't meet any of 461 00:29:07,916 --> 00:29:12,596 Speaker 1: their eyes. I was like a comedian who totally bombed. Finally, 462 00:29:12,676 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 1: after what felt like the longest silence in the world, 463 00:29:15,876 --> 00:29:18,356 Speaker 1: one of the boys made a joke about vulnerability that 464 00:29:18,396 --> 00:29:25,356 Speaker 1: broke the tension. Not vulner think we should go again? 465 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:30,436 Speaker 1: Then another ask what my podcast was called. Then I 466 00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:33,396 Speaker 1: wrapped it all up with a comment about your wire 467 00:29:33,516 --> 00:29:36,636 Speaker 1: tapping law. Anyway, Oh I recorded this is that? Okay, 468 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:41,836 Speaker 1: that's true, that's true. I didn't need to tell you, 469 00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:46,036 Speaker 1: but I did so anyway, thank you. I'm not I'm 470 00:29:46,076 --> 00:29:51,916 Speaker 1: not like, are so bad, so awkward, so sweaty, But 471 00:29:51,996 --> 00:29:55,276 Speaker 1: for real, I was super embarrassed. I wished that it 472 00:29:55,316 --> 00:29:57,356 Speaker 1: had gone better, and I wished that I had been 473 00:29:57,356 --> 00:30:01,196 Speaker 1: able to invite more discussion or even a question or 474 00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:04,556 Speaker 1: two about autism. When I got home, I recorded a 475 00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 1: little audio diary of how I was feeling. Okay, so 476 00:30:09,916 --> 00:30:14,916 Speaker 1: it's one forty seven am. I just got back from 477 00:30:15,196 --> 00:30:21,836 Speaker 1: Queer Shabbat with just like me and Hannah and like 478 00:30:22,716 --> 00:30:26,356 Speaker 1: all boys and lots of boys, and we're the only 479 00:30:26,396 --> 00:30:33,716 Speaker 1: girls there. And I was so exhausted when I got home, 480 00:30:33,956 --> 00:30:36,996 Speaker 1: but reliving what just happened got me all jacked up. 481 00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:42,676 Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of reaction to expect. I 482 00:30:42,756 --> 00:30:46,716 Speaker 1: honestly don't. I kind of think that this is why 483 00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:49,156 Speaker 1: I feel like I've imposter syndrome, where people are like 484 00:30:49,796 --> 00:30:54,436 Speaker 1: in their minds, they're like, yeah, right, you know, like 485 00:30:54,796 --> 00:30:58,876 Speaker 1: you don't seem like an autistic person to me, you know, 486 00:30:59,036 --> 00:31:02,676 Speaker 1: but it's like, Okay, well, yeah, I'm not rain Man 487 00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:05,596 Speaker 1: or I'm not like the guy from Big Bang Theory 488 00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:09,916 Speaker 1: or whatever. Okay, yes, I'm doing a lot of projecting, 489 00:31:10,156 --> 00:31:12,916 Speaker 1: but this shit is hard. I know it's going to 490 00:31:12,916 --> 00:31:16,116 Speaker 1: feel bad at times because we have so few collective 491 00:31:16,156 --> 00:31:21,236 Speaker 1: touchstones for what autism actually is, and whatever cultural references 492 00:31:21,316 --> 00:31:25,156 Speaker 1: we do have of autism, I don't fit them. So 493 00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:27,836 Speaker 1: I can't really blame people if they don't get it. 494 00:31:28,716 --> 00:31:30,956 Speaker 1: But there was one person in my life who I 495 00:31:30,996 --> 00:31:33,956 Speaker 1: knew would get it. I mean, like really get it, 496 00:31:34,036 --> 00:31:38,236 Speaker 1: not just being nice. Get it. My girlfriend's nineteen year 497 00:31:38,276 --> 00:31:41,756 Speaker 1: old son, Jacob, was diagnosed with autism about a decade ago. 498 00:31:42,316 --> 00:31:45,436 Speaker 1: If you remember a couple episodes back, Jacob's first words 499 00:31:45,476 --> 00:31:49,596 Speaker 1: were now available on DVD, so he knows a little 500 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:53,596 Speaker 1: something about being misunderstood. I figured that by telling Jacob 501 00:31:53,716 --> 00:31:56,316 Speaker 1: there would be at least one person in my life 502 00:31:56,356 --> 00:31:59,116 Speaker 1: who knew what I meant. I didn't have to explain 503 00:31:59,156 --> 00:32:01,476 Speaker 1: to him what autism was or the way is my 504 00:32:01,556 --> 00:32:05,596 Speaker 1: brain function differently. Now. Jacob isn't a big talker, and 505 00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:08,556 Speaker 1: he isn't much into heart to hearts. He's mostly into 506 00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:11,876 Speaker 1: playing game on his phone and chatting on discord. So 507 00:32:11,996 --> 00:32:14,436 Speaker 1: the timing of our talk had to be just right. 508 00:32:14,996 --> 00:32:18,236 Speaker 1: He had to be open and engaged and ready to listen, 509 00:32:18,716 --> 00:32:22,716 Speaker 1: and really, for any teenager, that's a tall order. But 510 00:32:23,236 --> 00:32:27,156 Speaker 1: one day, some months after my diagnosis. The timing was perfect, 511 00:32:27,516 --> 00:32:31,436 Speaker 1: even if the venue a busted as Subaru outback wasn't. 512 00:32:32,156 --> 00:32:34,716 Speaker 1: And so it was that on a highway driving back 513 00:32:34,756 --> 00:32:37,516 Speaker 1: from Richmond, Virginia, I poured my heart out to the 514 00:32:37,676 --> 00:32:43,156 Speaker 1: only other autistic person I knew, a teen BOYA. Do 515 00:32:43,196 --> 00:32:47,116 Speaker 1: you know when when you said there are no autistic women, 516 00:32:47,316 --> 00:32:51,076 Speaker 1: and you were like, huh l, I'm joking. Yeah, But 517 00:32:51,316 --> 00:32:53,756 Speaker 1: did I sound like I was a gemman? No? No, no, no, no, 518 00:32:53,796 --> 00:33:03,276 Speaker 1: you sounded like you were joking. But I then my 519 00:33:03,436 --> 00:33:07,076 Speaker 1: recorder cut out right when I told him I was autistic. 520 00:33:07,716 --> 00:33:12,276 Speaker 1: Super professh So, allow me to do a little reenactment 521 00:33:12,316 --> 00:33:16,036 Speaker 1: for you, Lauren says, nervous and a bit tongue tied, 522 00:33:16,556 --> 00:33:22,556 Speaker 1: I'm autistic. Jacob answers, yeah, I figured. Lauren, taken aback 523 00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:26,476 Speaker 1: by Jacob's bluntness, responds, wait, why did you figure I 524 00:33:26,516 --> 00:33:31,436 Speaker 1: was autistic? Jacob explained that an autism diagnosis made sense 525 00:33:31,476 --> 00:33:34,796 Speaker 1: for me because I am very loud. Now I couldn't 526 00:33:34,836 --> 00:33:38,636 Speaker 1: argue with that, but I was still surprised. Hannah pulled 527 00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:40,996 Speaker 1: up the rear with some questions. After I loaded up 528 00:33:40,996 --> 00:33:45,196 Speaker 1: the recorder with fresh batteries. Why is loudness. Why it's 529 00:33:45,236 --> 00:33:48,836 Speaker 1: not necessarily loudness so much as some sort of being 530 00:33:48,876 --> 00:33:53,476 Speaker 1: tone deaf to the situation, which is one of the 531 00:33:53,556 --> 00:33:57,236 Speaker 1: things I have felt the most when I was from 532 00:33:57,276 --> 00:34:01,396 Speaker 1: like every from since I got my diagnosis, like what 533 00:34:01,396 --> 00:34:03,956 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? Or elaborate alone, you know, 534 00:34:04,436 --> 00:34:06,356 Speaker 1: you know how I had the problem of playing rhythmium 535 00:34:06,396 --> 00:34:08,956 Speaker 1: in public spaces like in face where I wasn't supposed 536 00:34:08,956 --> 00:34:12,156 Speaker 1: to well, and then slow down with that things like that. 537 00:34:14,596 --> 00:34:18,716 Speaker 1: So so my loudness in public spaces is like like 538 00:34:19,156 --> 00:34:22,956 Speaker 1: not like reading the room to a degree. Yeah, okay, 539 00:34:23,036 --> 00:34:26,436 Speaker 1: that's not Obviously I'm not like a clinician. I can't 540 00:34:26,516 --> 00:34:31,476 Speaker 1: like use that I think for sure thing. But right, no, 541 00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:34,476 Speaker 1: I think that's accurate. So I think one reason why 542 00:34:36,116 --> 00:34:40,396 Speaker 1: like trying to get a diagnosis was hard or where 543 00:34:40,396 --> 00:34:43,196 Speaker 1: I was reluctant to do it is because I kind 544 00:34:43,196 --> 00:34:46,196 Speaker 1: of flow a test balloon to people, you know, like, oh, 545 00:34:46,236 --> 00:34:49,036 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this, and they're like you autistic? What No, 546 00:34:49,356 --> 00:34:52,636 Speaker 1: Because one people don't know what it is, and two 547 00:34:52,756 --> 00:34:56,076 Speaker 1: they have this notion of like people who are like 548 00:34:56,316 --> 00:35:03,236 Speaker 1: extremely socially awkward, who don't communicate well, and obviously I 549 00:35:03,356 --> 00:35:09,316 Speaker 1: communicate professionally, you know, because obviously thinks about them. First 550 00:35:09,356 --> 00:35:13,556 Speaker 1: thing you said that, Lauren, Like, you know, way, why 551 00:35:13,596 --> 00:35:16,276 Speaker 1: do you think people I don't know? I would have 552 00:35:16,276 --> 00:35:23,236 Speaker 1: thought they would have caught on pretty quickly. Oh my good. 553 00:35:23,636 --> 00:35:27,196 Speaker 1: I mean obviously, no, I love it because I have 554 00:35:27,276 --> 00:35:29,996 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with autistic people. It's true, 555 00:35:30,076 --> 00:35:32,796 Speaker 1: and like know the experience that I would be better 556 00:35:32,836 --> 00:35:35,756 Speaker 1: at spotting it right. But I don't know. Maybe other 557 00:35:35,796 --> 00:35:38,676 Speaker 1: people just don't know enough. I would say, it's true, 558 00:35:38,836 --> 00:35:41,796 Speaker 1: people don't know enough, which is why it was so 559 00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:45,636 Speaker 1: refreshing to talk to Jacob and maybe why it might 560 00:35:45,676 --> 00:35:47,676 Speaker 1: have been refreshing for him to talk to me too. 561 00:35:48,476 --> 00:35:52,036 Speaker 1: Jacob has two non autistic siblings and neither of his 562 00:35:52,156 --> 00:35:55,596 Speaker 1: parents are autistic. It's hard for him to connect with folks, 563 00:35:55,676 --> 00:35:59,756 Speaker 1: and he mostly keeps himself to himself. So if nothing else, 564 00:35:59,836 --> 00:36:02,556 Speaker 1: I'm an adjacent adult in his life who gets it 565 00:36:02,636 --> 00:36:05,956 Speaker 1: because I've lived it, or at least my version of it. 566 00:36:06,796 --> 00:36:09,716 Speaker 1: During our chat, Jacob described how trouble old he was 567 00:36:09,796 --> 00:36:12,276 Speaker 1: that he didn't seem to have any emotions about his 568 00:36:12,356 --> 00:36:16,916 Speaker 1: older sister going away to college. I had like no 569 00:36:17,036 --> 00:36:21,756 Speaker 1: feeling over I was not emotional real and like I 570 00:36:21,796 --> 00:36:23,596 Speaker 1: don't know what I was supposed to do there, like 571 00:36:23,676 --> 00:36:28,356 Speaker 1: because so my entire life, I've been thinking like what 572 00:36:28,436 --> 00:36:31,676 Speaker 1: if I don't What if I am like a sociopath? 573 00:36:31,716 --> 00:36:36,196 Speaker 1: And I know I'm not, but like just too many 574 00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:40,316 Speaker 1: instances of it, like like people like having the idea 575 00:36:40,396 --> 00:36:45,316 Speaker 1: that I'm some sort of robot like it's hot. It's 576 00:36:45,356 --> 00:36:48,156 Speaker 1: really not easy to think about ever, and like every 577 00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:50,876 Speaker 1: like the thing I'm gonna have to work on the 578 00:36:50,916 --> 00:36:55,356 Speaker 1: most is see seeing whether I either can just fake 579 00:36:55,436 --> 00:37:00,796 Speaker 1: it or or what it actually means. That's sorry, Sorry 580 00:37:00,836 --> 00:37:02,676 Speaker 1: if I didn't make any sense. No, it's oh my god, 581 00:37:02,756 --> 00:37:05,156 Speaker 1: that's so. And I think I understand. What you're saying 582 00:37:05,276 --> 00:37:07,636 Speaker 1: is like you were led to believe by everyone around 583 00:37:07,676 --> 00:37:10,276 Speaker 1: you that there's something wrong with you because everybody's sad 584 00:37:10,316 --> 00:37:12,836 Speaker 1: that Noah's leaving and you're not sad, or you don't 585 00:37:12,916 --> 00:37:15,996 Speaker 1: feel what you think you should be feeling, and that 586 00:37:16,036 --> 00:37:20,716 Speaker 1: makes you feel like there's something wrong with you. So um, honestly, Jacob, 587 00:37:20,796 --> 00:37:24,756 Speaker 1: like I can a thousand percent relate to. So when 588 00:37:24,796 --> 00:37:29,596 Speaker 1: people say that, they're like, don't you miss me? Like 589 00:37:29,636 --> 00:37:33,276 Speaker 1: if they go away, did you miss me? In my mind, 590 00:37:33,276 --> 00:37:35,916 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't, I don't. I don't miss you. 591 00:37:36,236 --> 00:37:38,996 Speaker 1: And it's not because I don't love you. It's not 592 00:37:39,036 --> 00:37:42,836 Speaker 1: because I don't care about you. It's because I don't 593 00:37:43,516 --> 00:37:47,076 Speaker 1: miss you. Then Hannah asked Jacob if when he went 594 00:37:47,076 --> 00:37:50,956 Speaker 1: off to college himself, he would miss his little brother. Yes, 595 00:37:51,116 --> 00:37:54,596 Speaker 1: but like I can't. I don't even know if like 596 00:37:54,716 --> 00:37:57,116 Speaker 1: after I go to college US, I'll still be able 597 00:37:57,116 --> 00:37:59,356 Speaker 1: to keep texting him, I'll just like not do it. 598 00:38:00,076 --> 00:38:02,596 Speaker 1: I'll probably forget or something. I need to remind myself 599 00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:08,796 Speaker 1: constantly of that. It's like that I'm not supposed to 600 00:38:08,836 --> 00:38:11,996 Speaker 1: mean that, Like, no, there's not any supposed to What 601 00:38:12,036 --> 00:38:14,436 Speaker 1: do you mean? What makes you cry? Why does that 602 00:38:14,476 --> 00:38:16,916 Speaker 1: make you sad? Honestly because you feel like there's something 603 00:38:16,956 --> 00:38:19,476 Speaker 1: wrong with you? Yes, don't immediately think to text him 604 00:38:19,516 --> 00:38:24,236 Speaker 1: always you think your feeling is like, what's wrong with me? That? 605 00:38:24,356 --> 00:38:31,076 Speaker 1: I like, does this mean I'm a bad person? Yeah? So, 606 00:38:31,716 --> 00:38:34,396 Speaker 1: first of all, Jacob, like I feel very emotional listening 607 00:38:34,396 --> 00:38:36,556 Speaker 1: to you right now, because like the idea that like 608 00:38:36,716 --> 00:38:38,716 Speaker 1: you feel like there's something wrong with you or that 609 00:38:38,756 --> 00:38:41,956 Speaker 1: you're bad is like, like that actually breaks my heart 610 00:38:41,996 --> 00:38:44,956 Speaker 1: because one I've experienced that myself, and that was, like, 611 00:38:44,996 --> 00:38:46,916 Speaker 1: I'm forty two years old, and like, that was the 612 00:38:46,956 --> 00:38:49,556 Speaker 1: message that I got, and it takes a really long 613 00:38:49,596 --> 00:38:52,076 Speaker 1: time to unwind that. And so like, I don't want 614 00:38:52,116 --> 00:38:54,516 Speaker 1: you to think that, like you're bad or wrong because 615 00:38:54,596 --> 00:38:57,396 Speaker 1: of small things like that, Because one thing I know 616 00:38:57,516 --> 00:38:59,716 Speaker 1: for certain is that your brother knows that you love him, 617 00:38:59,756 --> 00:39:01,996 Speaker 1: and your parents know that you love them, and your 618 00:39:02,036 --> 00:39:05,036 Speaker 1: sister knows that you love her in the ways that 619 00:39:05,156 --> 00:39:07,516 Speaker 1: you show it. And just because you don't show it 620 00:39:07,556 --> 00:39:09,876 Speaker 1: in a typical way, or you don't do things in 621 00:39:09,876 --> 00:39:12,396 Speaker 1: a typical way, does not mean for one second that 622 00:39:12,436 --> 00:39:14,396 Speaker 1: you're bad or wrong. And I want you to know 623 00:39:14,476 --> 00:39:18,716 Speaker 1: that about yourself, and whatever messaging you've gotten that your 624 00:39:18,756 --> 00:39:21,596 Speaker 1: way of doing things is the bad way is incorrect. 625 00:39:26,836 --> 00:39:30,356 Speaker 1: As we drove, I found myself feeling so protective of Jacob. 626 00:39:30,756 --> 00:39:33,956 Speaker 1: How dare anyone suggests that his way of moving through 627 00:39:33,996 --> 00:39:37,676 Speaker 1: the world was wrong. Here's a smart, caring young person 628 00:39:37,756 --> 00:39:40,476 Speaker 1: who bakes kill or bread and cracks the best jokes. 629 00:39:41,036 --> 00:39:44,076 Speaker 1: So what if he finds eye contact challenging or is 630 00:39:44,156 --> 00:39:48,116 Speaker 1: constantly misplacing or breaking his glasses? Who cares if he's 631 00:39:48,276 --> 00:39:51,396 Speaker 1: terminally literal, or annoys the living hell out of us 632 00:39:51,396 --> 00:39:54,516 Speaker 1: with his video games. Here is a good kid with 633 00:39:54,516 --> 00:39:57,636 Speaker 1: a moral heart who's been getting the message for years 634 00:39:57,876 --> 00:40:03,436 Speaker 1: that there's something wrong with him. We need to do better. 635 00:40:04,276 --> 00:40:09,076 Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, no, thank you, thank you for the tissue. 636 00:40:11,276 --> 00:40:15,436 Speaker 1: Do you want to use a face mask? That was gross? 637 00:40:18,076 --> 00:40:20,356 Speaker 1: I actually do have a handkerchief, Let me get it. 638 00:40:33,356 --> 00:40:36,636 Speaker 1: And that was it. The curtain fell. We all wiped 639 00:40:36,676 --> 00:40:40,396 Speaker 1: our eyes and noses and moved on. Jacob played games 640 00:40:40,396 --> 00:40:42,916 Speaker 1: on his phone, and Hannah and I sat in silence, 641 00:40:43,676 --> 00:40:47,156 Speaker 1: and in that brief moment, everyone had what they needed. 642 00:40:50,196 --> 00:40:53,356 Speaker 1: The car conversation made me realize that I want so 643 00:40:53,476 --> 00:40:56,956 Speaker 1: much for Jacob to inhabit a world where he never believes, 644 00:40:57,036 --> 00:41:00,796 Speaker 1: not for one second, that he's deficient, Where no one 645 00:41:00,836 --> 00:41:03,836 Speaker 1: thinks he's a robot or that he doesn't have emotions, 646 00:41:04,396 --> 00:41:08,796 Speaker 1: where he is accepted and understood for exactly who he is. 647 00:41:09,676 --> 00:41:12,156 Speaker 1: The world I want for Jacob is also a world 648 00:41:12,196 --> 00:41:16,436 Speaker 1: where even if he, say, occasionally wears his pants inside out, 649 00:41:16,636 --> 00:41:19,836 Speaker 1: or forgets to trim his neck hair, or skips down 650 00:41:19,876 --> 00:41:23,796 Speaker 1: the street for no reason, he is still embraced, not 651 00:41:23,876 --> 00:41:27,516 Speaker 1: in spite of his quirks, but because of them, a 652 00:41:27,596 --> 00:41:30,476 Speaker 1: world that is good for Jacob is also a world 653 00:41:30,556 --> 00:41:33,676 Speaker 1: that's good for me, and it's good for so many 654 00:41:33,756 --> 00:41:37,236 Speaker 1: others who veer from the norm. In my fantasy land, 655 00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:40,116 Speaker 1: Jacob gets to be whoever he needs to be, and 656 00:41:40,276 --> 00:41:45,156 Speaker 1: so do I and so do you. So in the 657 00:41:45,196 --> 00:41:48,956 Speaker 1: next episode, I build that world for myself, a cilantro 658 00:41:49,076 --> 00:41:52,796 Speaker 1: free land where I never feel awkward, I always feel loved, 659 00:41:52,916 --> 00:42:05,236 Speaker 1: and I can be as loud as I want. You've 660 00:42:05,236 --> 00:42:07,876 Speaker 1: been listening to the Loudest Girl in the World. It's 661 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:10,076 Speaker 1: hosted written end exact I could have produced by me. 662 00:42:10,356 --> 00:42:14,716 Speaker 1: Lauren Ober. Our senior producer is writer. Also our associate 663 00:42:14,756 --> 00:42:18,436 Speaker 1: producer is David Jah. Sophie Crane is our show runner 664 00:42:18,436 --> 00:42:22,516 Speaker 1: and senior editor. Jake Gorski is our mix engineer. Music 665 00:42:22,556 --> 00:42:26,996 Speaker 1: imposed by my autistic kiwie pal, the Inimitable Lady Hawk. 666 00:42:27,556 --> 00:42:31,996 Speaker 1: Our artwork was created by the autistic illustrator Loretta Ipsum. 667 00:42:32,036 --> 00:42:35,156 Speaker 1: The show was fact checked by Andrea Lopez Cruzado, and 668 00:42:35,276 --> 00:42:39,876 Speaker 1: our autism consultant is Sarah Cappett. Our executive producers are 669 00:42:39,996 --> 00:42:50,516 Speaker 1: Mia Lobell and Lee tom Mullat. Thanks to my lovely 670 00:42:50,676 --> 00:42:53,756 Speaker 1: pal Carter hug Lee for taking a trip down memory 671 00:42:53,836 --> 00:42:57,676 Speaker 1: lane with me. Also thanks to Molly Harris, Meghan Reid, 672 00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:02,356 Speaker 1: Laura Starchski and Emily Vesselin for being such good listeners. 673 00:43:03,036 --> 00:43:06,916 Speaker 1: Shout out to the painfully handsome crew at Queer Shabat. 674 00:43:07,396 --> 00:43:10,516 Speaker 1: Also big love to my and a sale for all 675 00:43:10,596 --> 00:43:13,796 Speaker 1: the good advice you can get her book, Let's Talk 676 00:43:13,836 --> 00:43:17,996 Speaker 1: About Hard Things Anywhere fine books are sold. To Jacob, 677 00:43:18,476 --> 00:43:21,796 Speaker 1: thank you for saying yes, and thanks to you friend 678 00:43:21,916 --> 00:43:22,516 Speaker 1: for listening.