Speaker 1: He literally got an entire herd of cattle at one
Speaker 1: point from one of these tycoons.
Speaker 2: You gotta start asking questions. I mean, it's gonna raise
Speaker 2: a couple of questions.
Speaker 3: You show up at the cabinet meeting and there's four
Speaker 3: hundred cattle there? Where do you get things like? Don't
Speaker 3: worry about it?
Speaker 2: Why do you smell like like cowshit? It's these layers.
Speaker 2: I have to wear all these layers. What am I
Speaker 2: gonna do? I wear these layers.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Snapoo, a show about history's greatest screw ups.
Speaker 1: I'm your host ed helms, and this week I am
Speaker 1: talking to an Emmy winning comedian, writer, producer, and contributor
Speaker 1: and co host of the Daily Show. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: please welcome the amazing, insightful and dare I say delightful
Speaker 1: Jordan Klepper.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Jordan, Oh, thank you? Dare you say it? I'm
Speaker 3: glad you said it?
Speaker 2: I dare you?
Speaker 3: Dare you took the swing? Everybody wondered. They were all wondered,
Speaker 3: is he gonna? Is he across the rubicon? And stay delightful?
Speaker 3: He did it right.
Speaker 2: Off the bat.
Speaker 1: Don't don't make me a liar. I know this does
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I had since a hotbar. I
Speaker 1: was going to take you down today, and I have.
Speaker 3: I have just a stack of information about you and
Speaker 3: about your past that I was going to use against you,
Speaker 3: wield it with certainty and aggression. But now that you've
Speaker 3: labeled me as delightful, I'm going to set it aside
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1: Kind delight me Jordan, all right, now, before we get
Speaker 1: into today's snap who, I'm just curious a little bit
Speaker 1: about your background.
Speaker 2: We've known each other a while.
Speaker 1: We obviously share the Daily Show, as I was on
Speaker 1: the show back in the early two thousands, a long
Speaker 1: time ago. I'm curious sort of what your path to
Speaker 1: the Daily Show was.
Speaker 2: You know, the Daily Show. I was. I was a
Speaker 2: fan of The Daily Show.
Speaker 3: I remember in college watching it, watching John I was
Speaker 3: like my first into giving a shit about politics in
Speaker 3: the world around me. Up until that point, I was
Speaker 3: sort of just a kid in Kalazoo, Michigan and only
Speaker 3: cared about what was happening with a two mile radius,
Speaker 3: which in Kalamazoo, Michigan was not a lot. It was
Speaker 3: mostly it was mostly Little League and people talking about
Speaker 3: Derek Jeter.
Speaker 1: Can I say anybody from Kalamazoo, Michigan. You have to
Speaker 1: say their full name and from Kalamazoo, Michigan, and you
Speaker 1: immediately sound like a depression era business mogul Jordan Klapper
Speaker 1: from Kalamazoo, Michigan. It just is, It's got such a
Speaker 1: great zinger vibe to it.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a Doctor Seuss town. In fact, the
Speaker 3: buttons in Kalamazoo, Michigan say, yes, there really is a Kalamazoo.
Speaker 3: You approach Kalamazoo with a disbelief that it actually exists,
Speaker 3: and the people there will will sell you a button
Speaker 3: to try to prove we are a real thing. We
Speaker 3: are a small town in southwest Michigan. Embrace the weirdness
Speaker 3: of it all.
Speaker 1: So you're in Kalamazoo, Michigan and you're just a comedy fan.
Speaker 3: I'm that comedy Yeah, I think basically, I'm a whose
Speaker 3: line is it anyway?
Speaker 2: Improv guy in high school?
Speaker 3: But am I'm a nerd who gets a math scholarship
Speaker 3: to go to the tiny liberal arts college Kalamazoo College
Speaker 3: as a math major with eyes towards finding something that's
Speaker 3: inspiring to me. And I find comedy. I find improv.
Speaker 3: I finally got on stage in my college life did
Speaker 3: some improv jokes and people thought I was funny, and
Speaker 3: that drug sent me to Chicago and on a path
Speaker 3: to kind of find and forge this comedy career which
Speaker 3: for the longest time, which was like nine years in
Speaker 3: Chicago learning improv, touring with the Second City, takes me
Speaker 3: to New York where I start doing stuff with the
Speaker 3: Upright Citizens Brigade and a lot of comedy. And you know,
Speaker 3: like the New York life was writing gigs for MTV shows,
Speaker 3: It was creating my own little videos and trying to
Speaker 3: get whatever I could out there, finding a little bit
Speaker 3: of success. But it's like fourteen years ten in Chicago
Speaker 3: and then I'm in New York for four years and
Speaker 3: the Daily Show comes to knock in when John Oliver
Speaker 3: steps aside.
Speaker 1: Now, did you always have an inkling towards sort of
Speaker 1: commentary or satire or political engagement of any kind or
Speaker 1: was that really a product of joining the Daily Show?
Speaker 3: For me, it was always exciting to do shows that
Speaker 3: were commenting on something that was happening. You jump into
Speaker 3: the Daily Show and that just gets bumped up tenfold
Speaker 3: and at my reading level, which I thought in Chicago
Speaker 3: and in New York was a pretty good I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty well informed. I like walk into those offices
Speaker 3: at the Daily Show and CRIMEA was invaded. The first
Speaker 3: day I walked in and John wanted to do a
Speaker 3: peace on crime and I'm like, I don't know where
Speaker 3: CRIMEA is. I don't know, I thought, I you know,
Speaker 3: I skim a couple of New York Times articles every day,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh shit, I'm so bhind. Somebody get me.
Speaker 3: Somebody get me a map and a tutor. I can't
Speaker 3: do this job, you know what.
Speaker 1: I will say, That's something I miss from my years
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show. I could, like, like a couple
Speaker 1: of years into the Daily Show, I could step into
Speaker 1: any like topical conversation about politics or sort of current
Speaker 1: events and just be on fire, like I had everything
Speaker 1: at random access, because you're just steeped in it day
Speaker 1: after day. You're studying it, your you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: engaged in policy discussions like whatever is going on, you
Speaker 1: know everyone's names in Congress, You've gone to the conventions,
Speaker 1: You've it's just like it's really fun. It feels like
Speaker 1: you're kind of near the uh, the sort of like
Speaker 1: burning hot sun of American sort of political current events. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a very very cool job. You are obviously crushing
Speaker 1: it and have been for a very long time. Keep
Speaker 1: up the great work. Let's get into today's snap Who
Speaker 1: shall we?
Speaker 2: Oh? I love it all right?
Speaker 1: Well, given your day job involves a gosh darn lot
Speaker 1: of keeping up with political dramas, I thought it would
Speaker 1: be perfect to journey into a snap foo today involving
Speaker 1: one of the wildest early political scandals our country has
Speaker 1: ever seen. In fact, before Watergate, it might have been
Speaker 1: the biggest most sensational scandal America had even been through,
Speaker 1: filled with all kinds of presidential corruption and bribery, which
Speaker 1: will surely remind you of absolutely nothing going on right now?
Speaker 3: Do you want me to connect this to anything? Because
Speaker 3: it feels like sci fi?
Speaker 2: Right now? What you're pitching me?
Speaker 1: Ed? Right?
Speaker 2: Are you ready? I'm ready? Let's jump in?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Great?
Speaker 1: We begin our journey in nineteen twenty alongside a man
Speaker 1: who several contemporaneous publications described as quote milk toast. This description,
Speaker 1: of course, refers to a man of weak character who
Speaker 1: is indecisive and or easily influenced, all of which will
Speaker 1: come into play very shortly. Milk toast is kind of
Speaker 1: a rude nickname. Did you have any nicknames, Jordan Klepper.
Speaker 3: You know, milktos would have been a fine one for me.
Speaker 3: I would have accepted milk toast. I think I've been
Speaker 3: as pale as what I could imagine the delicacy of
Speaker 3: milk toast is. I was jordy Bean to begin with,
Speaker 3: Jordy Bean, jordy Bean because I was thin as a
Speaker 3: string bean. I have this weird long head, so that
Speaker 3: became the case. And then when I got into an
Speaker 3: improv group, I gave myself a nickname Truck, which was
Speaker 3: absurd to the people there, and I was called out
Speaker 3: for the absurdity of giving yourself a nickname.
Speaker 2: Can't give yourself a nickname. That's illegal, that was the argument.
Speaker 3: And yet that becomes in and of itself a bit
Speaker 3: about giving yourself a nickname. And now fast forward fifteen
Speaker 3: years later, I'm Truck to a small group of people
Speaker 3: in Chicago, and I proudly I probably did it myself.
Speaker 1: That's a very cool nickname. That's the problem with nicknames
Speaker 1: you pick yourself. Is like they're too cool, the truful. Hey,
Speaker 1: here comes old truck. What'd he go to?
Speaker 2: He's got some good improv up his leaves, has got
Speaker 2: great improv.
Speaker 3: And truck, of course, was somebody who who at that
Speaker 3: time drove his parents dodge intrepid. So I've gotten nowhere
Speaker 3: near a truck.
Speaker 2: Sure, but you hauled good improv skills. I ain't that
Speaker 2: the true it's sixty wheels baby.
Speaker 1: Well, underneath the feeble exterior of this particular person was
Speaker 1: a sexual miscreant with a penchant for scandal. In fact,
Speaker 1: he's on record having told the press quote it's a
Speaker 1: good thing I'm not a woman. I would always be pregnant.
Speaker 1: I can't say no this guy, that's a fun guy
Speaker 1: to hang out with. I guess, I guess. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's just sort of like a yes man. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm in whatever you.
Speaker 2: Got, you know what.
Speaker 3: Honestly, in the nineteen twenties, for a phrase that starts
Speaker 3: it's a good thing of not a woman dot dot dot,
Speaker 3: that was probably that. That's probably the nicest answer you're
Speaker 3: going to find.
Speaker 2: I guess. So that's what that's a modern man right there.
Speaker 3: Lovely, he didn't bring in any other minorities to make
Speaker 3: fun of or hound. Perhaps that comes later in the story.
Speaker 3: Right now, that's a that's a that's a PG answer
Speaker 3: for nineteen twenty all right.
Speaker 2: Any guess who we're talking about? Oh God, I no,
Speaker 2: I'm at a loss.
Speaker 1: Well, it's the twenty ninth President of the United States,
Speaker 1: Warren G.
Speaker 2: Harding. It's Harding, that's who. It's Harding. We're talking about Harding.
Speaker 2: It's classic. Yeah.
Speaker 1: His wife's biographer pegged his number of mistresses at seven,
Speaker 1: including the wife of one of his best friends. In fact,
Speaker 1: the steamy affair was so problematic, none other than the
Speaker 1: Republican National Committee paid the woman a two thousand dollars
Speaker 1: monthly stipend on top of a twenty five thousand dollars
Speaker 1: trip to Japan and China, just so she'd be far
Speaker 1: out of the spotlight while our mister milk Toast campaigned
Speaker 1: for the American presidency.
Speaker 2: We were doing that back then.
Speaker 3: We were sending we were sending women who were having
Speaker 3: affairs to Japan. I mean that's a long trip. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a very long trip.
Speaker 1: Also, like kind of a nice little silver lining to
Speaker 1: an affair. Likely, yes, get a trip to China.
Speaker 3: You know, you know, it was hard enough and so
Speaker 3: expensive to see any other culture at that day and age.
Speaker 3: Probably your most effective bet was to sleep with the
Speaker 3: president and see if the government would pay for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, twenty five thousand dollars trip to
Speaker 1: China and Japan. That was the cheapest rate you could
Speaker 1: get at the time. A lot of powerful men have affairs.
Speaker 3: Here we go, and I told you we can't talk
Speaker 3: about this, and we can't talk about this. Okay, don't
Speaker 3: put this on me, he said, We're just gonna talk history.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk history. We can't go into all
Speaker 3: of my infidelities at please, it's dangling right in front
Speaker 3: of us. You're you are known for having thousands of affairs. No,
Speaker 3: but honestly, it's well into the summer of nineteen twenty
Speaker 3: three and we're and Harding is nearing the end of
Speaker 3: his first term. All those twirling allegations of misconduct are
Speaker 3: starting to threaten his re election. So he and the
Speaker 3: first lady, Florence Harding. Isn't that like a fairy tale name?
Speaker 2: I love that. That's Florence flow hard He had to
Speaker 2: be a flow, right, you take flow? Yeah? At that time.
Speaker 2: Of course, she's a flow. You go with flow, You
Speaker 2: go with the flow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Warren and Flow set off on a two
Speaker 1: month adventure to show some serious leadership and earn back
Speaker 1: voters trust. Face to face, there's any even a semi
Speaker 1: wholesome photo of Harding at the helm of a locomotive
Speaker 1: in Alaska. Here do we have that photo, handy? Can
Speaker 1: we take a look?
Speaker 2: Oh? Was that? I guess he's in there? He was, like,
Speaker 2: he's hanging out the window there.
Speaker 3: I mean, they might not have had zoom technology, but
Speaker 3: the photographer could have walked up a little closer. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 3: this I assumed this wasn't a movie locomotive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I I think you're right.
Speaker 3: Although I tell you, I tell you, and you zoom
Speaker 3: in on this right now, and I look and I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that guy fox right right? I mean, yeah, you see that.
Speaker 3: You look at that? Look at that glove.
Speaker 1: Look at that that the creepy glove that he's wearing.
Speaker 1: I don't know, he's a he's kind of a lot going
Speaker 1: on there.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: So he called this giant pr stunt the Voyage of Understanding,
Speaker 1: and it surprisingly held some historical significance. It was the
Speaker 1: first ever instance of a sitting president visiting the remote
Speaker 1: regions of Alaska as well as Canada. How are we
Speaker 1: doing with Canada right now?
Speaker 2: Do you think?
Speaker 1: Do you think relationshis are better or worse than they
Speaker 1: were back in nineteen twenty three?
Speaker 2: Oh God, I will yeah.
Speaker 3: I hate to say it. I think we're on a
Speaker 3: downward spiral with Canada.
Speaker 2: I don't know why. It's so random, and it is.
Speaker 2: It's so random.
Speaker 1: It is like, why the hate Canada? Why are you
Speaker 1: coming at us with so day?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: So what we talk about making you the fifty first
Speaker 3: saint or throw of you?
Speaker 2: Yes, we're the fun older brother who's ribbing you right now.
Speaker 2: Enjoy it. You're part of the conversation. Welcome.
Speaker 1: So throughout this tour it wasn't just the scandalous affairs
Speaker 1: that were weighing on Old Warren G.
Speaker 2: Harding.
Speaker 1: There was also something else going on, something way worse.
Speaker 1: During the boat ride in Alaska, Harding anxiously asked his
Speaker 1: Commerce secretary Herbert Hoover.
Speaker 2: Yes, that Hoover for.
Speaker 1: Advice, he said, and I quote, if you knew of
Speaker 1: a great scandal in your administration, would you for the
Speaker 1: good of the country and the party, expose it publicly,
Speaker 1: or would you bury it? Jordan, what's the right answer here?
Speaker 1: You know what, I think we all know.
Speaker 3: You bury that thing so deep, so deep you try to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you try to find a cave and fill it
Speaker 1: with concrete.
Speaker 3: Fill it, fill it with concrete, and then and then
Speaker 3: you blame whatever remnants on whoever you want to go down,
Speaker 3: whoever you're running against next.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the right advice, obviously, Yes, that's the American advice.
Speaker 1: So well, Hoover emphatically said, you gotta you gotta tell
Speaker 1: the American people they deserve to know. But to your point,
Speaker 1: Harding ignored this sage wisdom and tried to keep this
Speaker 1: mysterious scandal under wraps. It wouldn't stay hidden for very long,
Speaker 1: as massive political scandals tend to do. It started to emerge.
Speaker 1: There was a dark cloud forming over Harding's presidency, and
Speaker 1: this cloud was very much in the shape.
Speaker 2: Of a teapot.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, Jordan Klepper, Do you know much about
Speaker 1: the teapot dome scandal?
Speaker 2: The teapot dome scandal.
Speaker 3: I'd like to say that rings a bell, but I
Speaker 3: don't think I know a thing about it.
Speaker 2: It's like a great history.
Speaker 1: It just has like like I can picture sort of
Speaker 1: like political cartoons of the time of the day with
Speaker 1: like a teapot, of which there were many, but it
Speaker 1: feels evocative.
Speaker 2: I remember before.
Speaker 1: Digging into this, I was like, yeah, what exactly is that?
Speaker 2: Well it is.
Speaker 1: It is one of the biggest scandals in American political history.
Speaker 1: So let's rewind a bit. So he's on this tour
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty three to sort of bolster his reelection.
Speaker 1: But now let's go back to nineteen twenty one. What
Speaker 1: exactly was Teapot Dome. Well, first off, Teapot Dome is
Speaker 1: a real place. It's a landmark rock formation in Wyoming
Speaker 1: that sort of resembles a teapot. The specific location was
Speaker 1: one of three major oil reserves designated by the US
Speaker 1: government in the early nineteen hundreds as emergency oil supplies
Speaker 1: for the Navy. Now, I think we have a photo
Speaker 1: of this teapot formation, and can we take a look.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, is this that's Teapot Dome.
Speaker 1: I think this is a modern photo. This is teapot
Speaker 1: this is there's actually there are old photos of Teapot
Speaker 1: Dome where the spout is still intact. The spout was
Speaker 1: knocked off by a tornado in nineteen sixty two. But this, uh,
Speaker 1: and I think this is this is after that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you got it without a spout, yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean we're just talking. We're talking crackles. I'm seeing, I'm
Speaker 3: seeing castle. Yeah, I'm seeing I'm seeing some phallic representation there.
Speaker 2: I mean, but you have to admit.
Speaker 1: You have to admit it does also look short and stout,
Speaker 1: you know what.
Speaker 3: I do have to admit that, you know what it Frankly,
Speaker 3: it looks tall to me. Everything around it makes it
Speaker 3: look tunny.
Speaker 2: Not sure.
Speaker 1: Here is its handle, here is its spout? But there
Speaker 1: is no I know you're right, it's not. I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to trust you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already instilled that there's more information that being
Speaker 3: hidden away, and now I have to trust you about
Speaker 3: this so called spout and handle on this rock formation.
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty one, the newly elected Harding made an
Speaker 1: interesting move. He shifted control of these oil reserves from
Speaker 1: the Navy to the Department of the Interior. Now why
Speaker 1: in the hell would he want to do that? Mind you,
Speaker 1: this was a time when there was a lot of
Speaker 1: debate on whether to conserve the country's natural resources or
Speaker 1: to allow private industry to take hold of these resources
Speaker 1: and milk America Drive for the benefit of Yes, you
Speaker 1: guessed it, private industry. Now enter a character named Albert B. Fall,
Speaker 1: Harding's new Secretary of the Interior and a four fall guy.
Speaker 2: Does he become the fall guy? Is this one of
Speaker 2: those American stories? This is great? My name is Mud
Speaker 2: kind of situation.
Speaker 1: Kind of this is and this is a point of contention.
Speaker 1: So Fall actually does become the fall guy of this story.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people think that that is the
Speaker 1: origin of the term fall guy. That is disputed. It
Speaker 1: is apparently not the origin, but it's awfully convenient. He's
Speaker 1: Harding's new Secretary of the Interior and a former senator
Speaker 1: from New Mexico. Fall was also a rancher, lawyer, and
Speaker 1: poker addict. I wasn't everybody in the twenties who downed
Speaker 1: plenty of whiskey, didn't everybody in the twenties in the.
Speaker 2: Midst of prohibition. He was a man in the twenties, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: He was just a dude in the twenties. Now we've
Speaker 1: got a photo of him Ooh.
Speaker 2: I like this.
Speaker 1: He's very scandalous. Doesn't it look like he's holding something creepy,
Speaker 1: whether it's his genitals or like there's he looks like
Speaker 1: he's hiding something.
Speaker 3: He looks I mean, well, the handlebar mustache definitely alludes
Speaker 3: to a man who is hiding something. Although the quality
Speaker 3: of that coat, I always, I'm always it's amazing the
Speaker 3: quality of the clothing of that time.
Speaker 2: I agree from right, Look how thick that coat is.
Speaker 1: But no crazy thing is like every but he wore
Speaker 1: a suit all the time in the twenties, Like even
Speaker 1: you would see even like like a dirt poor farmer,
Speaker 1: like out working in the fields, like they're wearing a
Speaker 1: suit for some reason, or like you know, like beggars
Speaker 1: on the street of New York City, they're wearing suits like.
Speaker 2: Everybody holds suits.
Speaker 3: And the sweat got the smell of the twenties. It
Speaker 3: feels like that's something you can't encapsulate. They could only
Speaker 3: imagine if everybody's wearing three piece suits.
Speaker 2: Wools and child washing.
Speaker 3: The dry cleaning industry had not come into full fruition.
Speaker 3: Oh they didn't, chemicals, No, so they're they're just they're
Speaker 3: sweating away and the smells of.
Speaker 2: This man, this this Fall guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can only imagine.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Harding had campaigned on a slogan of return to normalcy.
Speaker 1: Fall was not on board with normal sea. It turns
Speaker 1: out he really coveted power and wealth and to get
Speaker 1: it he needed access to those reserves. Almost immediately he
Speaker 1: uh secretly commenced his money grubbing intentions. He leased the
Speaker 1: navel oil reserves at Teapot Dome and also a place
Speaker 1: called Elk Hills and Buena Vista, California, to two private
Speaker 1: oil tycoons, Harry F. Sinclair of Mammoth Oil and Edward L.
Speaker 1: Doheny of Pan American Petroleum. Now you may know the
Speaker 1: name Doheny from Doheny Drive here in Los Angeles. It
Speaker 1: is the same Doheny uh, and it's just a couple
Speaker 1: of blocks away from me right now, which is just
Speaker 1: a meaningless factoid.
Speaker 3: Does anybody know that? As I'm in New York? Would
Speaker 3: I have known that? Would people who live on Doheny
Speaker 3: Drive know that?
Speaker 1: They probably don't know for whom Doheiny Drive is named,
Speaker 1: But now they do.
Speaker 2: And they really are provided service? Ed Are you really
Speaker 2: they're thrilled?
Speaker 1: This is really the point of this podcast is just
Speaker 1: to give people useless information.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me why why Third Avenue is called
Speaker 3: Third Avenue? Is there a story behind that here in Brooklyn?
Speaker 1: That one's tricky. Yeah, there was a There was an
Speaker 1: Arnold j Third was a.
Speaker 3: Local bridge building tycoon. No, it was a poker offiicionado
Speaker 3: if I recall, of course.
Speaker 1: So these deals that are our dear friend Albert B.
Speaker 1: Fall made with Sinclair and Doheny, these deals were made
Speaker 1: without competitive bidding, and Fall justified this by saying it
Speaker 1: was quote for the public good and national security. But
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden a weird thing started to happen,
Speaker 1: which is that his bank account started looking very shall
Speaker 1: we say well oiled?
Speaker 2: We should say that that's the yeah, exactly, thank you.
Speaker 1: At the time, Harding doesn't know his secretary of the
Speaker 1: interior is being like shady as hell.
Speaker 2: Do you do you believe that?
Speaker 1: Do you think he was totally oblivious or do you
Speaker 1: think he was just turning a blind eye?
Speaker 3: I you know, I gotta believe it's blind. I'm often
Speaker 3: confused about how people communicated pre cell phone era, So
Speaker 3: the fact that they had no easy way to communicate.
Speaker 3: I'll give him little leeway. I don't know how fast
Speaker 3: these horses are. Back of those days, that train looked
Speaker 3: like it wasn't moving very fast either. So you know,
Speaker 3: I'll give him perhaps he's not up to the moment informed,
Speaker 3: but I don't know. You've given me very little, little
Speaker 3: to rest my head when terms in terms of trusting
Speaker 3: Warren Garding.
Speaker 1: Well, it turns out there's actually a good reason to
Speaker 1: believe that Harding was relatively unaware.
Speaker 2: At this time.
Speaker 1: President Harding was quite busy dealing with the extensive aftermath
Speaker 1: of World War One, jostling through labor disputes, and flirting
Speaker 1: with women not named Florence. Still, you'd think he might
Speaker 1: have noticed when Fall started receiving gifts and loans totaling
Speaker 1: over four hundred thousand dollars, which in today's dollars would
Speaker 1: be a little over seven million dollars. He literally got
Speaker 1: an entire herd of cattle at one point from one
Speaker 1: of these tycoons.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you gotta start asking questions. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: gonna raise a couple of questions.
Speaker 3: You show up at the cabinet meeting and there's four
Speaker 3: hundred cattle there, Why do you stink?
Speaker 1: Why do you smell like like cowshit. Just be honest,
Speaker 1: weall like these layers. I have to wear all these layers.
Speaker 2: What am I gonna do? I wear these layers? I
Speaker 2: guess we all stink a little bit, right, It's we're
Speaker 2: wearing woolf. Okay.
Speaker 1: But it's not just how much money he was receiving,
Speaker 1: it was how obvious he was about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: the guy was living large in DC, buying up ranches,
Speaker 1: handing out cash, strutting around like a gilded age Gordon
Speaker 1: get Go with a bolo tie. Now are you a
Speaker 1: frugal guy? Like if you fell into this kind of money,
Speaker 1: would you be chill about it? Or would you be
Speaker 1: like putting on like a suit and hit in the nightclubs?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, see, I don't think I'm creative enough to
Speaker 3: spend money like that. My mom told me when I
Speaker 3: when I got I got a show after the Daily
Speaker 3: Show and I got a I was.
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, I got a TV show. What
Speaker 2: I do with this? Mama?
Speaker 3: I was like, you need a good chair? She goes,
Speaker 3: what I would buy would be an EMS chair, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't even know what an EMS
Speaker 3: chair is. And then I googled it, and for the
Speaker 3: next two weeks all I thought about was ems chairs
Speaker 3: and that was the thing I bought. I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know what I will buy. I'll buy a chair
Speaker 3: that I'll have for the rest of my life. So
Speaker 3: that's that's the one fancy thing that.
Speaker 1: Advice I love because it's just sort of like, yes,
Speaker 1: like little creature comforts, they're important and they kind of
Speaker 1: make there's these little things that just make your life
Speaker 1: experience nice.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So now speaking of making instant millions, According to a
Speaker 1: Senate survey, the three reserves, these big oil reserves held
Speaker 1: an estimated four hundred and thirty five million barrels of oil,
Speaker 1: which at the time would have been equivalent to the
Speaker 1: amount of oil produced by the country as a whole
Speaker 1: up to that point in time. Now, crazy fact, that
Speaker 1: number was well under the actual amount of oil that
Speaker 1: was dredged up eventually from those sites. Elk Kills alone
Speaker 1: has produced more than one billion barrels and it's one
Speaker 1: hundred years of existence. Meanwhile, whispers began reaching Congress of
Speaker 1: some shady stuff going on. On April fourteenth, nineteen twenty two,
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal broke the news of the teapot
Speaker 1: dome as a few local Wyoming boys noticed trucks with
Speaker 1: the Sinclair logo roaming about. Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand the power of branding, but maybe
Speaker 1: you don't put your logos on your shady truck deliveries
Speaker 1: or yeah, when you get your shady oil pickups.
Speaker 2: That's what gets it.
Speaker 3: Nine times out of ten, it's that person who wants
Speaker 3: to strut struck, you know, don't do it. Don't wear
Speaker 3: that fancy don't wear that fancy suit. I think that's
Speaker 3: like a plot in The Godfather What are the Godfathers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, weirdly, I think that the flagrancy of like using
Speaker 1: your Sinclair trucks to transport sort of it'll be gotten
Speaker 1: oil speaks to the fact that they didn't think there
Speaker 1: was any risk here. Like it was like almost like
Speaker 1: a cold thing. It's like, yeah, yeah, we're just doing
Speaker 1: shady business and then everybody knows it.
Speaker 2: Who cares?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it speaks to one of the truest thing.
Speaker 3: Not to bring up mister Donald J. Trump, but if
Speaker 3: we're connected to comments like when when Trump got called
Speaker 3: out for not paying taxes, you know, he holds it
Speaker 3: up to like, yeah, because I'm smart. Right, There's always
Speaker 3: been an idea with the billionaire class that like proof
Speaker 3: of my expertise and acumen come in the fact that
Speaker 3: I get away with shits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you see.
Speaker 3: That there, it's like, oh my god, how'd you get
Speaker 3: away with that? It's like, I'm smart. So this this
Speaker 3: is what I get for being so smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just let's not even bother asking the questions of
Speaker 1: character about any of that stuff. Buddy, that's a black
Speaker 1: hole that we could go down, but I'm gonna keep
Speaker 1: going one. Wyoming Senator John B. Kendrick was pestered with
Speaker 1: questions from other local oil men, mostly as to why
Speaker 1: they never had a shot at least sing the land
Speaker 1: the teapot dome. Suspicions kept growing, they grew and grew.
Speaker 1: The Denver Post followed soon after with a front page
Speaker 1: expose calling the events quote one of the baldest public
Speaker 1: land grabs in history. Finally, the floodgates were opening, which
Speaker 1: led to a congressional investigation that took over two years. Now,
Speaker 1: I find congressional investigations like this seriously badass, at least
Speaker 1: when they're like well intentioned and well executed. Do you
Speaker 1: do you have a favorite congressional investigation? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is this is a very nerdy question.
Speaker 3: But the way they're framed, I mean, you think about Watergate,
Speaker 3: you think about uh uh, you know, the what was
Speaker 3: the the Oppenheimer when when he was investigated, and I
Speaker 3: think all that red scare stuff, they're not always used
Speaker 3: in the best of best of ways. And I think
Speaker 3: like the Mueller investigation was such a you know, I
Speaker 3: think that's the the or the January sixth investigation sure
Speaker 3: slash presentation. Congressional hearings felt like such a such a
Speaker 3: I think they were framed as such a partisan affair, right,
Speaker 3: such theater that you almost forget the functionality of them all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty heartbreaking when that happens. I agree, there
Speaker 1: was one. One of my favorites is definitely We covered
Speaker 1: it in SNAFU season two. Frank Church, a senator from Idaho,
Speaker 1: led the investigation into co Intel pro and all of
Speaker 1: the malfeasans of Jadgear Hoover and how sort of corrupt
Speaker 1: the FBI had become at that time, and it he
Speaker 1: just was so had so much sort of integrity and
Speaker 1: character and was so respected in the Senate, and he
Speaker 1: had an incredible staff and the people that were working
Speaker 1: for him on that investigation, and it really, it really
Speaker 1: accomplished a lot, and it was perceived as nonpartisan at
Speaker 1: the time, and it's became the only reason that we
Speaker 1: have any congressional oversight over the FBI, the CIA, the NSA,
Speaker 1: all of these inteligence institutions that up to that point
Speaker 1: had been operating in total secrecy, which also basically total
Speaker 1: impunity for for whatever corrupt practices were going on. And uh,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really cool, like like people like Frank
Speaker 1: Church there, they seem hard to come by these days.
Speaker 3: To go full circle on this, I told you how
Speaker 3: I got into the world of improv and comedy, and
Speaker 3: it was doing improv and my roommate fellow improviser in
Speaker 3: college was Frank Church, the grandson of Senator Frank Church.
Speaker 2: Way one hundred percent so cool. Are you still in touch?
Speaker 2: I am still? And he grew up in Idaho. He
Speaker 2: grew up in New York.
Speaker 3: Because if if I don't want to bastardize Frank's life,
Speaker 3: but I feel like, uh, Frank Church was such a
Speaker 3: hero in Idaho and and ran for I think ran
Speaker 3: for president as well, or attempted to. And then his son,
Speaker 3: my Frank's father became came a large priest, cut into
Speaker 3: the stars in.
Speaker 2: New York and so fascinating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so Frank, my Frank grew up and grew
Speaker 3: up in New York and then came to Kalma Zoo.
Speaker 2: That's that's so wild. That is wild.
Speaker 3: I'm realizing now I have I have newfound guilt for
Speaker 3: the lack of respect I gave my friend Frank Church
Speaker 3: back in time.
Speaker 2: Did you bully a young Frank Church? Oh? Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 2: your family was important. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Why haven't I ever heard of him? All right, sorry
Speaker 1: for all the wedgies, Frankie. Why are we now just
Speaker 1: like denigrating this poor guy.
Speaker 2: I think we're celebrating.
Speaker 3: We're celebrating Frank Church, the history of my Frank Church,
Speaker 3: your Frank Church, all.
Speaker 2: Frank Church, all the Frank Churches.
Speaker 1: Diving back in Albert, Fall had actually already stepped down
Speaker 1: as Secretary of the Interior in January of nineteen twenty three,
Speaker 1: so you know he could enjoy his new ranch as
Speaker 1: well as help Sinclair and doheany with other oil deals abroad. Clearly,
Speaker 1: Fall had pulled some corrupt shiit. It might be worth
Speaker 1: mentioning here that President Harding was really feeling the heat
Speaker 1: by this point in his presidency, particularly relating to a
Speaker 1: few crooked folks he had appointed in his administration. Now,
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of Harding's Ohio Gang? No? All right?
Speaker 2: Should I have no?
Speaker 3: As a Michigan boy, As a Michigan boy, don't. We
Speaker 3: don't give much respect to anybody from Ohio. So perhaps
Speaker 3: it's not my own ignorance, it's just my own prejudice.
Speaker 2: H there you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this was the nickname for some of Harding's appointees,
Speaker 1: basically because he'd hired or appointed so many of his
Speaker 1: buddies from his days in Ohio, and a lot of
Speaker 1: them were ruffling feathers and drumming up scandals from all angles,
Speaker 1: from influence pedaling to selling illegal permits for confiscated government alcohol.
Speaker 1: These dudes were just awful basically. So it kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense that Albert Fall and his oily mustache twirling
Speaker 1: fit right in. And yes, if you recall the photo earlier,
Speaker 1: Fall had a big old snot mop.
Speaker 2: O handlebar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, even if we're besmirching the guy, I
Speaker 3: don't think we want that image in our head.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny, but it's gross.
Speaker 3: It's funny, but yeah, it's it's one of those things.
Speaker 3: It's like moist. You're like, Okay, that might be the
Speaker 3: right word, but I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 1: So President Harding said at the time, I have no
Speaker 1: trouble with my enemies. I can take care of my enemies,
Speaker 1: all right. But my damn friends, my goddamn friends, they're
Speaker 1: the ones who keep me walking the floor nights. Now.
Speaker 1: That's very godfathery, that is I tho you really leaned
Speaker 1: into it too in the performance that it was nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friends just when I think out, they pulled
Speaker 2: me back in who the Ohio game? Thought clear.
Speaker 1: I do wonder though, like someone you know, you look
Speaker 1: at these presidents, whether it's a Trump or a Barack
Speaker 1: Obama or somebody, You're like, how many good, like close
Speaker 1: friends are they able to maintain at that At that point,
Speaker 1: I would think someone like Trump is like so hard
Speaker 1: to get close to and so hard to sort of
Speaker 1: like feel a sense of trust with, even if you're
Speaker 1: if you match his core values whatever they are, like,
Speaker 1: it just seems I don't know, they're so their their
Speaker 1: life is so public and it's so committed to the
Speaker 1: public eye.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, like, yeah, the usage of
Speaker 3: a friend as somebody who you could truly be honest
Speaker 3: with and empathize with and you could like be vulnerable with.
Speaker 3: I see people like Trump who sees almost everybody as
Speaker 3: like a means to an end. Everything has a loyalty test, right,
Speaker 3: and even things you know, not to smirch any relationships,
Speaker 3: but those don't seem to be the most friendly and open.
Speaker 3: Those seem transactional as well. And you're like, oh, what
Speaker 3: happens to a human who doesn't have a like an
Speaker 3: emotional sounding board or compatriot that isn't tied up into
Speaker 3: your own personal success?
Speaker 2: Are you expressing it?
Speaker 1: Are are you starting to express some some deep compassion
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've stumbled done it.
Speaker 3: We've created a monster and I just want to give
Speaker 3: him a hut.
Speaker 2: That's what probably all he needs. Jordan didn't give a hug. Yeah,
Speaker 2: group lug, I want on that. Come on, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's let's break through that. Oh god, you could be
Speaker 2: a better person.
Speaker 1: At this point in our tail, we're sort of we're
Speaker 1: coming full circle. So, as you recall, we sort of
Speaker 1: started with this this voyage of understanding, and then we
Speaker 1: jumped in nineteen twenty three. Then we jumped back to
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one and sort of told the unfolding of
Speaker 1: the teapot Dome scandal under Harding's administration. Now now we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back on the trip with President Harding. And suddenly
Speaker 1: he began complaining of shortness of breath, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: he was just gone. A surprise heart attack took him
Speaker 1: very swiftly in August of nineteen twenty three, at the
Speaker 1: ripe young age of fifty seven.
Speaker 2: So there would be.
Speaker 1: No re election for mister Harding after all. Now, what
Speaker 1: do you think happened to the teep Dome scandal in
Speaker 1: light of Harding's passing.
Speaker 2: Boy, that is a great question.
Speaker 3: My guess is the fall guy rides away any to
Speaker 3: a very successful life and the story moves on to
Speaker 3: other more pressing things. Yeah, as there's never accountability, I
Speaker 3: guess that's what I've learned to believe in American politics.
Speaker 2: So that accountability is a rare, rare mineral. It's very elusive.
Speaker 1: You're largely correct here, there was a whole lot of
Speaker 1: legal wrangling over the course of several years, and at
Speaker 1: long last, the Supreme Court ruled in nineteen twenty seven
Speaker 1: that the leases had been illegal, and all of the
Speaker 1: oil reserves were returned to government control. In nineteen twenty nine,
Speaker 1: Albert Fall was convicted of accepting bribes from Sinclair and
Speaker 1: served one year in prison, which sounds light until you
Speaker 1: consider this was completely unprecedented at the time. Fall was
Speaker 1: the first cabinet member in US history to go to
Speaker 1: prison for crimes committed in office. Also, I can only
Speaker 1: imagine a year in prison in nineteen twenty three is
Speaker 1: pretty bleak.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine there's making a lot of
Speaker 3: space for rec time or rehabilitation.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, one nice thing about this was that it's sort
Speaker 1: of set the standard that even cabinet members aren't above
Speaker 1: the law, and I truly hope that Ethos carries through.
Speaker 1: I think it's a little wishy washy at times, but
Speaker 1: it's nice to see some little measure of accountability, even
Speaker 1: if it feels small. Now, Sinclair and Doheny were totally
Speaker 1: acquitted of their charges of conspiracy to defraud the government,
Speaker 1: although Sinclair did end up serving six months in prison
Speaker 1: for contempt of court and contempt of Congress. Why because
Speaker 1: he hired private investigators to follow and intimidate the jury
Speaker 1: during his trial. These guys just had they feel like
Speaker 1: they're just like they can do anything like that.
Speaker 2: Come on, oil man, Yeah, mud relaxed, you got the win.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the golden age of oil barons where
Speaker 1: they can just do whatever the fuck they want. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're just they're all the elon musks of their day.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah. One.
Speaker 1: So, needless to say, damage was irrevocably done. Public trust
Speaker 1: in the government tanked Harding's legacy. Despite dying a quite
Speaker 1: popular president, his legacy was permanently stained. In nineteen forty eight,
Speaker 1: Arthur M. Schlessinger, a Harvard historian, put out a poll
Speaker 1: amongst fellow historians and government officials to assess the greatest
Speaker 1: and worst presidents up to that point. Harding landed dead
Speaker 1: last and continues to place near the bottom of the
Speaker 1: barrel in annual polls to this day. And Teapot Dome
Speaker 1: became shorthand for political corruption ever more, which is kind
Speaker 1: of funny. It's like, I like, how scandals ever since Watergate,
Speaker 1: every scandal. You just add the word gait the end
Speaker 1: of it and it becomes like that's the scandal. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if before Watergate it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like the firehouse dome scandal, like everyone just
Speaker 1: added the word dome to stuff.
Speaker 3: Now now I feel like katari jet is just so
Speaker 3: much cleaner.
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although that's not a scandle, that's not a scan.
Speaker 2: It's literally not a scandal. I'm honestly, you are right.
Speaker 3: Yes, there has been no kerfuffle on the other side
Speaker 3: of it. We're just we're just moving up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just moving on. It's kind of refreshing. There's
Speaker 1: no such thing as a scandal anymore.
Speaker 3: It's just like, that's why why we're gonna waste time
Speaker 3: by everybody spending years looking into this.
Speaker 2: Just keep moving on.
Speaker 1: Well, this does lead me to my favorite portion of
Speaker 1: this this podcast, which is the sort of reflection here
Speaker 1: Jordan and I'm curious, what are your takeaways. Have we
Speaker 1: learned any lessons or are there lessons we still need
Speaker 1: to learn from a teapot dome type scandal? Are there
Speaker 1: any parallel to the modern moment we've touched on a
Speaker 1: few throughout the episode. What jumps to mind, Well.
Speaker 3: I mean, frankly, I was shocked that there was some
Speaker 3: amount of accountability. It's right, it's humorous that the oil
Speaker 3: barons get off scott free, except for trying to intimidate witnesses.
Speaker 2: Which is which is hilarious.
Speaker 3: But the fact that like there was sustained pressure and
Speaker 3: a governmental organization that continued to stay on it to
Speaker 3: punish somebody for for abusing the public trust is refreshing
Speaker 3: to hear. But I think so sad in the light
Speaker 3: of what we are seeing right now. It seems as
Speaker 3: if like, oh, there's there's no appetite for that, there's
Speaker 3: no bipartisan appetite for come up and for somebody abusing this,
Speaker 3: and like you said, you s doubled on it with
Speaker 3: the Katari jet. It's like, we have such obvious examples
Speaker 3: of corruption, and there's also you know Donald Trump's personal
Speaker 3: was it cryptocurrency as a form in which people are
Speaker 3: paying our government. These are scandalous things. I think back
Speaker 3: in that time period like we are, it's a barrage
Speaker 3: of information that things are getting washed out with new information,
Speaker 3: new information, new information, and just a wash of devices
Speaker 3: that in our pockets that make us forget the things
Speaker 3: that we perhaps could be or should be outraged by.
Speaker 3: I look back at that time and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: I feel like they were able.
Speaker 2: To stick with stings. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a great question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're raising a really a really meaningful
Speaker 1: question about contemporary mores, which is like, has our sort
Speaker 1: of ethical or moral compass degraded in recent time? Or
Speaker 1: are we just too overwhelmed to actually compute these things
Speaker 1: as they happen. And I can say honestly like I
Speaker 1: think exasperation is working in corruption's favor. There are a
Speaker 1: few points that that I think Teapot Dome raises, For example,
Speaker 1: federal resources quietly getting funneled to private interests. What's happening
Speaker 1: now in this big, beautiful bill is this idea to
Speaker 1: literally just sell publicly owned land to private interests. And
Speaker 1: of course those private interests won't be local ranchers or
Speaker 1: farmers or people who want to build their homes and
Speaker 1: live there. They will be these massive real estate conglomerates
Speaker 1: and or mining interests, or you know, the people that
Speaker 1: can afford to buy huge swaths of land. And it's
Speaker 1: so it's far more permanent than a sort of lease arrangement.
Speaker 1: And and it's really interesting that that one's an interesting
Speaker 1: one because it's starting. It really is fracturing a lot
Speaker 1: of Trump supporters. I think a lot of conservative folks
Speaker 1: are like, oh, hold on this publicly owned land. This
Speaker 1: is land that we all own and that we all
Speaker 1: benefit from. You know, there's a there's a there's an
Speaker 1: impulse i think on the right to vilify government and
Speaker 1: vilify the sort of scale of government. And there's some
Speaker 1: good reasons for that, of course, but we forget, or
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times someone with a right
Speaker 1: leaning mindset might forget that government and the government ownership
Speaker 1: of things is actually public. It means that it's all
Speaker 1: of us. It means that we all are owners, are
Speaker 1: sharing this thing. And when it comes to two huge
Speaker 1: amounts of natural resources and or just beautiful public land
Speaker 1: like Yellowstone or all of our national parks, our state
Speaker 1: parks like that is that's publicly owned, and.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 1: These are incredible resources for all of us.
Speaker 3: There's conversations about where those lines are being drawn and
Speaker 3: be curious where the ramifications of something like the big
Speaker 3: beautiful Bill and how that affects people like that who
Speaker 3: are using this public land in those ways, aren't.
Speaker 2: Going to see the kickbacks. I worry.
Speaker 3: That's what we talked about, is it's so hard for
Speaker 3: us to have sustained attention on anything that isn't completely outrageous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jordan Klepper, what are you up to? What can
Speaker 1: you tell us about us? Obviously you're still crushing it
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show? What else do you have going on?
Speaker 3: That's that takes up a lovelier part of my time.
Speaker 3: And then when I have free weekends, I hit the
Speaker 3: road and I do a show called Suffering Fools, which
Speaker 3: is part stand up, part ted talk. I got a
Speaker 3: bunch of slides and trying to make sense from some
Speaker 3: of these stories I've got from being out on the road.
Speaker 3: So that's that's a fun time to get out into
Speaker 3: all over America and tell some war stories.
Speaker 2: I love it. I really, I really want to see
Speaker 2: that show.
Speaker 1: And if you're out there, anyone we're in America, go
Speaker 1: see Jordan Klepper the guys. He's yeah, he's funny, he's smart.
Speaker 1: And I will say, you delivered undlightful.
Speaker 2: Pretty delightful thing. I mean, you were kind of delightful.
Speaker 2: I feel like I carried a lot of the delightfulness.
Speaker 2: You were very delightful, yes, but you met it.
Speaker 1: You met the standard, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Well. Thanks for having me. And you know what, I
Speaker 2: learned something.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I like harding any more than
Speaker 3: I did coming in and out, but I understand the
Speaker 3: man more. Yeah, I'm more confused about fall guy, but
Speaker 3: I'm glad to see a little bit of a moment
Speaker 3: of accountability.
Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
Speaker 1: So glad to have you on the pod. Jordan Klepper,
Speaker 1: all my best buddy. Thanks v Snapoo is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film
Speaker 1: Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production
Speaker 1: studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me Ed Helms,
Speaker 1: Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tory Smith.
Speaker 1: Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering
Speaker 1: from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo
Speaker 1: and branding by the Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh,
Speaker 1: Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn,
Speaker 1: Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson,
Speaker 1: Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While
Speaker 1: I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy
Speaker 1: of my book, Snaffoo, The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest
Speaker 1: screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer.
Speaker 2: Just go to.
Speaker 1: Snaffoo dashbook dot com.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and see you next week.