1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,520
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I picked this selection. This is Chuck by

2
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: the Way of Stuff You Should Know, co host September seventeenth,

3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,560
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. We did an episode called the Great Nuclear

4
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: Winter Debate of nineteen eighty three, and I picked this

5
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 1: one because I don't remember even recording it. What in

6
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,079
Speaker 1: the world were they debating in nineteen eighty three about

7
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,119
Speaker 1: the Great Nuclear Winter? It was probably just nuclear winter,

8
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: and the great refers to the debate now that I

9
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 1: see how it's worded. But you know what I mean.

10
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: I guess I'm going to learn right around with you

11
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: because I'm about to listen to it right now. Welcome

12
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

13
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

14
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 2: Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there somewhere off

15
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 2: in the ether. But I don't think on ether. Just

16
00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 2: in the ether.

17
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 1: Oh man, we try not to breathe. Now we had

18
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:01,959
Speaker 1: a tank of ether in here.

19
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 2: It would be a much different podcasts.

20
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,400
Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck's ether cats.

21
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,199
Speaker 2: Do they put those things in tanks?

22
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know, surely, yeah right? No? Does it

23
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,080
Speaker 1: look like in the bottle still like the eighteen hundreds.

24
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

25
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you just have it a little milk bottle,

26
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,279
Speaker 1: You put it in a rag, you put.

27
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 2: It in your face, and then go to happy town.

28
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

29
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 2: If there's any pharmacists out there that want to set

30
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 2: us straight, let us know how ether comes these days.

31
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 2: It's probably a gas.

32
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine it's not like hunter S Thompson.

33
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 2: I think we talked about it before in anesthesia. Probably

34
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 2: it's like ether gas. What a weird start. Yeah, that

35
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with what we're about to talk about.

36
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: I was trying to relate it, but there really is nothing.

37
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,840
Speaker 2: One of my favorite favorite topics of all time nuclear

38
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 2: holocaust from the Cold War?

39
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, what we did? We did want a Cold war,

40
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: didn't we.

41
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 2: Oh we've done several.

42
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we batted around this thing, but we've never

43
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: done a full nuclear holocaust podcast.

44
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 2: Have we?

45
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 1: No?

46
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 2: And nuclear holocaust is that's not quite right. That's not

47
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 2: the right way to put it, because what we're talking

48
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,919
Speaker 2: about is actually that after effects from a nuclear holocaust.

49
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 1: Isn't that the holocaust? Mm?

50
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 2: If you want to be a purist, the nuclear holocaust

51
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 2: is the immediate destruction as a result of exploding nuclear

52
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,920
Speaker 2: bombs over like population centers.

53
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 1: And oh, I didn't know that. I thought it was

54
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 1: the whole kitten kaboodle.

55
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,839
Speaker 2: I should say, if you're a purist and you want

56
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 2: to say it, from my opinion, that's sort of nuclear holocaust.

57
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,639
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we know what's going on here.

58
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: I got it.

59
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 3: Um.

60
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Robert Lamb wrote this of stuff to blow your mind.

61
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say, I said, man, way to

62
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,720
Speaker 2: go on that one. That was a good one.

63
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: You told him that I did.

64
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 2: I actually uttered those words.

65
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: What do you say?

66
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 2: Thanks?

67
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: Man? That's nice.

68
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 2: But the thing that gets me about nuclear winner, which

69
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 2: we will talk about in depth, what fascinates me about

70
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,839
Speaker 2: it just as much as the nuclear winter itself, chuck, Yeah,

71
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:12,079
Speaker 2: is the controversy debate that arose from it. Throughout the eighties.

72
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 2: There was a huge debate.

73
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 1: Debate on the severity debate.

74
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, debate on whether it's something to worry about or not.

75
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I looked up because I was like, does

76
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 1: anyone think that this is a myth? Out and outright myth?

77
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 1: And from what I saw on my research is that no,

78
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 1: this is fact. It's just a dispute. What's a dispute

79
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: is the scenario and the severity of what would happen.

80
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 1: But no one says, like, no, there would be no

81
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: nuclear winter, there would be no problems after a nuclear bomb.

82
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 2: So there used to be like back in the early

83
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 2: eighties when this was a huge new thing, there was

84
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: a group of scientists who were hawkish, very much in

85
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 2: favor of the US building up its nuclear arsenal as

86
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 2: much as possible, and started a basically a pr letter

87
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 2: writing campaign to discredit the science behind this. And they like,

88
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 2: these guys don't know what they're talking about.

89
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 1: So what they think that the bomb would drop and

90
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: then in like the next day the birds would be out.

91
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,799
Speaker 2: They they said, initially, yeah, that was kind of their position,

92
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 2: was just to poke holes in this and that it

93
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't a a it wasn't legitimate science, right, Yeah,

94
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 2: it didn't sound like and then they ultimately the whole

95
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,719
Speaker 2: point was that this came from an argument over whether

96
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,360
Speaker 2: the US should engage in the SDI, the Strategic Defense

97
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 2: Initiative or star wars, which is the lasers that shoot

98
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 2: nukes from space, right, they shoot down nukes from space.

99
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 1: We did a showing that didn't we they did.

100
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 2: That was another one. But that's what the whole thing was.

101
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 2: It's the context of it. It was an argument over what

102
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 2: over either nuclear disarmament which Carl Sagan and his friends

103
00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 2: were in favor of hip or nuclear proliferation and Star

104
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 2: Wars program.

105
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: Warmongers, right, these versus the warmont.

106
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 2: But the weird thing is is this debate, Chuck took

107
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 2: place in the pages of like academic journals and it

108
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,840
Speaker 2: ended up being a fight between science and science deniers.

109
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like these scientists that you mentioned might

110
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: have been had their coffers full from the US government.

111
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 2: So potentially or private industry or something like that. Yeah.

112
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,160
Speaker 2: And the thing is is they use this old chestnut

113
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 2: where so if you're a scientist, there's no certainty in

114
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,839
Speaker 2: anything you say. It can always be disproven or remember

115
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 2: we talked about this in the Scientific Method episode. Yeah,

116
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 2: all your stuff can be disproven ultimately, which is why

117
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,719
Speaker 2: it's just a theory. Yeah, so no science is going

118
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 2: to be like this is one hundred percent certain, right, Well,

119
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 2: these other scientists who were poking holes in it would

120
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 2: point out these guys aren't even certain, which means that

121
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: there's there's disagreement over whether we'll have a nuclear winner

122
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,160
Speaker 2: or not. So they were being very disingenuous in poking

123
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 2: holes in it by saying, these scientists aren't even certain

124
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 2: in their findings. Well, no scientists are certain in their findings.

125
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 1: It's so dangerous.

126
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 2: But to the public that you think, oh, well, these

127
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,479
Speaker 2: scientists can't say that they're certain, so that they must

128
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 2: not know what they're talking about for it.

129
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 1: That's dangerous. That's why we're at three minutes to midnight

130
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: on the doomsday clock. It's exactly right because some people

131
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,479
Speaker 1: might say, well, you're not certain, so let's just not

132
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: act fast enough.

133
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I should say, also check, we should prepare

134
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 2: for a lot of listener mail because this is a

135
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 2: conservative flash point. Nuclear winner is long standing one.

136
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, great, sounds good.

137
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 2: Let's talk about this all right.

138
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: Well, Robert starts where most people should start when talking

139
00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 1: about nuclear winner, and that's in the atmosphere. It's a

140
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: very finely tuned system we have. I want to say

141
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 1: it's like homeostasis, but it's not people, So I guess

142
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: it's like an ecostasis where the sun just enough sun

143
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,040
Speaker 1: gets through to make things, make the earth habitable and

144
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: proliferate with plants and water and humans and animals and

145
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 1: all kinds of great stuff. Too much sun, even by

146
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 1: a little bit, could be catastrophic, and too little sun,

147
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: but even by a little bit, could be catastrophic. So

148
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: thanks to humans, we've struck a great balance here with

149
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: the sun, a great deal made.

150
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 2: You can shine to unshine too much sun.

151
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's working out awesome. The idea of nuclear

152
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 1: winter is that there would be enough ash from and smoke.

153
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 1: It's really not the fallout from the nuclear bombs themselves,

154
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 1: from what I understand, It's more the smoke from the

155
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 1: resulting fires that would cause the blacking out of the

156
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: sky and the sun not getting through.

157
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 2: It's actually all of it.

158
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, But everything I read across the board said it's

159
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 1: almost the smoke, right that goes on.

160
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 2: Yes, it's true. I mean you you you shouldn't negate

161
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: the idea that, like nuclear radiation, poisoning is going to

162
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 2: kill a lot of people as a result.

163
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 1: But the blacking out of the skies is due to

164
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 1: the smoke from fires exactly from the bomb that happened, right.

165
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 2: So this whole thing, the context of it again comes

166
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 2: from the seventies, right, chuck uh yeah. In eighties, yeah,

167
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 2: and back in I think that nineteen seventy five a

168
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 2: group issued a statement that said, you know, there probably

169
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't be that big of a fallout from nuclear explosions.

170
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 2: A few years after that, another group, I think that

171
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 2: the first two group is the National Academy of Scientists.

172
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 2: Another group said, you know what, we don't think that's

173
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 2: exactly true. We think that there probably is some sort

174
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 2: of there will be something, but our models are too

175
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 2: primitive to say for certain what the fallout would be. Sure.

176
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 2: A few years after that, Carl Sagan and his crew

177
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 2: got together and said, no, there's going to be serious consequences.

178
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 2: And here's what they are.

179
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: Billions of lives.

180
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 2: Lost, billions and billions, right. And one of the things

181
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 2: they based this on, this idea on that if you

182
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 2: spew a bunch of smoke or particulate matter into the

183
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 2: atmosphere that it'll have a negative influence on the global climate,

184
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,559
Speaker 2: is past history from volcanic eruptions.

185
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: Yes, most noted, well, there are a few over the years,

186
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 1: but one of the notable ones in eighteen eighty three

187
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: at the time, then the dust Dutch East Indies now Indonesia, Krakatoa.

188
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: That volcano was massive, to the tune of thirty six

189
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: thousand deaths just from the volcano. And this is in

190
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 1: Krakatoa in eighteen eighty three.

191
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only like ten people there somehow.

192
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: It's not like it was super populated, right, And two

193
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: thirds of Krakatoa collapsed. The smoke rose up and warmed

194
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 1: the global temperature global by two point two degrees fahrenheit.

195
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,840
Speaker 2: I think it. No, it lowered it, yeah, lowered.

196
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 1: Sorry. Yeah, it took five years for temperatures to return

197
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 1: to normal. And it affected This was in Indonesia, and

198
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: it actually they think increased the rainfall in Los Angeles

199
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 1: by more than double that next year. Wow, it's in

200
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: La in southern California.

201
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 2: So that was the Krakatoa blast from eighteen eighty three.

202
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and that it literally changed the color of

203
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 1: the sky for like years afterwards. The sky was red

204
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 1: such that they think, you know, the scream, the painting

205
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,640
Speaker 1: the screen, yeah, munch, Yeah, the red sky. They think

206
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 1: that's this guy looked was because of this volcano.

207
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:02,760
Speaker 2: That is so neat.

208
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeahn't' crazy that guy was like that volcano is crazy.

209
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,440
Speaker 2: Maybe what the man is saying.

210
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,319
Speaker 1: And that's just one of them.

211
00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,600
Speaker 2: What was the other one in Mount Tambora.

212
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Indonesia once again.

213
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Indonesia's got bad luck with the volcanos back in

214
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 2: the nineteenth century.

215
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 1: And this was actually earlier in eighteen fifteen.

216
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember learning about this when I was a kid,

217
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 2: because Ohio got it really bad. A volcano went off

218
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 2: in Indonesia in eighteen fifteen, and the following year much

219
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 2: of the United States did not have a summer. It

220
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 2: was actually called the Year without a Summer.

221
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:35,439
Speaker 1: And Ohio was affected.

222
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,560
Speaker 2: Yes, so well yeah, oh yeah, there was like snow

223
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,839
Speaker 2: on the ground in the middle of July.

224
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 1: Do you learn that in state history class?

225
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 2: I did?

226
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 1: I remember that? Yeah? Yeah, Georgia State History. That was

227
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: like a full course at our school.

228
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Half of it was just sitting around with the teacher,

229
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,320
Speaker 2: like staring off into the distance.

230
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: Right, I remember. Ours was just like a lot of

231
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 1: talk about Crawford Long and the Civil War.

232
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't talk about Crawford Long and ours.

233
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 1: Because he wasn't from Georgia.

234
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 2: We talked about Anthony Wayne. Yeah, the Battle of Fallen Timbers. Yeah,

235
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 2: well that summer without a winter, year without a summer,

236
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,320
Speaker 2: I mean, uh huh. And then there's some like canals

237
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 2: and locks that donkeys used to pull barges on.

238
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just remember Crawford Long and a lot of racism. Yeah, basically, Yeah,

239
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 1: that's right. So that was Mount Timboro the year without summer.

240
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 1: There have been other events, like when the oil fields

241
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 1: burned during the during the war in the early nineties.

242
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently Carl Sagan predicted basically a nuclear winner from that. Yeah,

243
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 2: that's pan out.

244
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where they take some flak. Was it was

245
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: not nearly as bad the fallout from nut smoke as

246
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: Sagan predicted.

247
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:55,439
Speaker 2: No, but.

248
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,559
Speaker 1: What can you do but predict you're going to be wrong.

249
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, occasionally, surely you're gonna be wrong.

250
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you should be like, oh, well, let's

251
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 1: smoke didn't do much, so let's start building nuclear bombs again.

252
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's the whole thing, Chuck. I am so

253
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 2: glad you said that, because that's the whole mad thing

254
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 2: to this argument. Yeacause it's like, what are you arguing

255
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 2: in favor for If you're arguing against the idea of

256
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 2: what precisely are you arguing.

257
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,960
Speaker 1: For yeah, like it won't be that bad.

258
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit more about it, like later

259
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 2: on in the show what some people have argued about.

260
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 2: But it seems like what you say, ultimately you're arguing

261
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 2: in favor of more nuclear weapons that seems wrongheaded by definition.

262
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 1: Well not even just that, but using them won't be

263
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,240
Speaker 1: as bad as you say, right, not just have them,

264
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 1: but well the fallout wouldn't be as bad as they'll predict,

265
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 1: so use them.

266
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 2: You almost get the impression like they're just like, well,

267
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 2: let's just find out. Let's just shoot a couple off

268
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 2: and find out what happens. Come on, you'll see them.

269
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: Right, and then as they die from a inhalation, they say,

270
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: I was wrong?

271
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 2: What have I done?

272
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, Let's take a break, all right, let's do

273
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 1: and we'll come back and we'll talk a little bit

274
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,439
Speaker 1: more about the nuclear.

275
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 3: Winner Stoffy the jowshh, stoff.

276
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 1: I said nuclear and jest.

277
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 2: But I know I heard the break. That was good stuff,

278
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 2: all right.

279
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,120
Speaker 1: I just want to point that out because some people

280
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 1: might think I was serious.

281
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 2: No, And now that you said it was in jest,

282
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 2: some people are like, what k Maybe that man was

283
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: my hero?

284
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: I posted something on Facebook the other day that said,

285
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: you're sciencing wrong as a joke, and people called me

286
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,200
Speaker 1: out there like verb.

287
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 2: I thought, remember last try, you could use like everything

288
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 2: as a verb.

289
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

290
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have gotten extremely serious, extremely self serious.

291
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: I'm a not self serious person, so I don't fit

292
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 1: in today's world.

293
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 2: You're a relic. You're an all dinosaur, just.

294
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: A stupid, laughing dinosaur. Speaking of dinosaurs. Yeah, well, I

295
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 1: guess we should talk about the k T boundary extinction event,

296
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 1: which was some people, some in science, have theorized that

297
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 1: that's what happened to the dinosaurs. Was there was an

298
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: impact winter, not quite the same as a nuclear winter,

299
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: but the same effect as a nuclear winter due to

300
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 1: the impact of an asteroid.

301
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 2: And that would have happened at the border of the

302
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 2: Cretaceous and Tertiary periods. Again, when the dinosaurs all died off,

303
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 2: still inexplicably, there's no there's no definitive answer. Again, though

304
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 2: we're talking science.

305
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 1: No one found a journal.

306
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 2: Diary. Today. Something is streaking through the sky and it's

307
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 2: making everyone nervous.

308
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 1: It's very hot now. But I noticed that dinosaurs are dying,

309
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 1: so that's good.

310
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a dinosaur writing in my opinion. Oh

311
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 2: oh so that's bad, right, right, Okay, so let's talk

312
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 2: Nuclear Winner, right. You kind of said it earlier, But

313
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 2: the whole idea behind nuclear Winner is that if you

314
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 2: shoot off nuclear bombs, especially a bunch of them. And

315
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 2: you have to understand, at the time that these scientists

316
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 2: were really starting to debate this, there were like seventy

317
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 2: thousand nuclear warheads, like many, many times more nuclear warheads

318
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 2: in existence in like the early eighties than there were today.

319
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 2: And when they started debating them, they really took up

320
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: this cause because the Reagan administration was saying, we need

321
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 2: this Star Wars program because we can prevent almost with

322
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, ninety percent certainty, a Soviet nuclear.

323
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: Attack right with laser guns exactly.

324
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 2: And so these scientists who were concerned scientists, basically anti

325
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 2: nuke scientists, said, wait a minute, there's something that you

326
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 2: guys aren't thinking through here. If you do that, the

327
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,119
Speaker 2: Soviets are going to say, well, wait a minute, if

328
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,800
Speaker 2: this thing is ninety percent effective, then we need to

329
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 2: build up our nuclear arsenal so that when we shoot

330
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 2: everything we got at them still that ten percent will

331
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 2: totally annihilate the United States that the presence of the

332
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 2: star Wars program was going to put the nuclear arms

333
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 2: rates into even higher gear than it already was. So

334
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 2: they very much took it upon themselves to tackle this

335
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: with science, but also publicize it and sell it to

336
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,200
Speaker 2: the public. And it's that that's stuck in the craw

337
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,959
Speaker 2: of a lot of other scientists, particular scientists who were

338
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,879
Speaker 2: in favor of nuclear proliferation as a matter of national defense.

339
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 1: That's right.

340
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 2: The point of it is when they tackled this, they said,

341
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: here's the big problem with it. If you shoot off

342
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,959
Speaker 2: a bunch of nuclear bombs at a lot a lot

343
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 2: of nuclear bombs which could totally go off as far

344
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 2: as the nuclear war is concerned, it's going to cause

345
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 2: a lot of smoke to enter the atmosphere. And that

346
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 2: is where this domino effect is going to create, this

347
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: global catastrophe, and the whole outcome of it is based

348
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: on the number of nukes that you shoot off, which

349
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 2: is basically what Carl Sagan and his buddy Richard Turco

350
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 2: divided the different types of nuclear winter into.

351
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: That's right, mister Sagan and mister Turko are they doctors.

352
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 1: Let's just call everyone a doctor.

353
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,720
Speaker 2: Well, yeah he was. Carl Sagan was a doctor of

354
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 2: astro chemistry, I believe, and Richard Turco is a veterinarian.

355
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: I can't remember what he was.

356
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 1: They wrote a book called it Path Where No Man Thought,

357
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: A Path where No Man Thought, and that seemed like

358
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: there would be one more word there. And they have one, two, three, four, five,

359
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: six scenarios for what a nuclear winter might look like,

360
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: ranging from minimal to extreme. In minimal best case scenario,

361
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: which is just a little bit of a nuclear attack,

362
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 1: not many bombs going off, maybe like let's say Hiroshima

363
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 1: or Nagasaki, which we'll talk about those. Yeah, that means

364
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 1: that there would be minimal cloud cover, not much environmental

365
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,239
Speaker 1: impact globally, and the targeted areas would be wiped out,

366
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 1: of course, but the world itself would not have big

367
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 1: consequences right atmospherically, So if.

368
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 2: You are talking a nuclear war, especially old war nuclear war,

369
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 2: that was a fairly unlikely scenario. By the time the

370
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: early nineteen eighties rolled around and people started talking about

371
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 2: the concept of a nuclear winner, those like Hiroshima and

372
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 2: Nagasaki level nuclear bombs were like attached the average fighter jet. Yeah,

373
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: they were considered like just tactical, like you just could

374
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 2: shoot them off on a battlefield if you needed to. Yeah,

375
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: So the idea that it would just amount to that

376
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: is unlikely. Yeah, it was, but they would be nice.

377
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 2: That's the best case scenario. They're trying to cover all

378
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 2: avenues here.

379
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: Yes, number two was marginal, and that's a few detonations

380
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: again in the northern hemisphere, and they said it would

381
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 1: lower the temperature by a few degrees and there would

382
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: be some crops in some agriculture that suffered, and probably

383
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: some famine, but it would not Oh black rain, of course,

384
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: who wants that? Did happen in Hiroshima? Yes, they drank it,

385
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 1: you and died.

386
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: From hacking it to go, Yes, because it was radioactive rain.

387
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they drank it because they were thirsty because

388
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: they had no water.

389
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 2: Yes, it's devastating you and everyone should have to go

390
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 2: to the city of Hiroshima, Like it is amazing what

391
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: they've done to preserve what happened there. Oh, as like

392
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 2: a teaching lesson for everyone. Yeah, it's really moving.

393
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: We should have one of those here.

394
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: We should. Instead people are like, yeah, Japan forced the

395
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: US to drop the bomb, it's fact, right, which is

396
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: not correct.

397
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: Right, So black rain would happen in that marginal scenario.

398
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: Man, this is a really political episode, isn't it.

399
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: I think anytime you tackle nuclear war it's going to

400
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: be divisive. Yeah, because some people think.

401
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: It's awesome nuke, the whales got a nuke something.

402
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: Things below the equator in that scenario in the southern

403
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: hemisphere would be just fine.

404
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: So here's something that I found really interesting and wrong

405
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: in this analysis of it, Sagan. I guess he was

406
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: strictly talking about atmospheric effects. Yeah, but he mentions like

407
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: famine and stuff like that.

408
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: The thing is that would have a global effect for sure. Yeah.

409
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: The rest of the world depends in large part on

410
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 2: North American wheat and corn. So if there's a nuclear

411
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: fallout in North America that affects our crop yields dramatically

412
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: and causes famine in the US, it's going to cause

413
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 2: famine elsewhere too.

414
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

415
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: I think what he's saying is as far as climatologically speaking,

416
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: what he and Turco are saying is, as long as

417
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 2: you're not shooting off nuclear bombs in the southern hemisphere,

418
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 2: it's gonna climatologically speaking, be unaffected or largely unaffected because

419
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: the wind goes down to the equator and then back

420
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: up like the equator separates the hemispheres as far as

421
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: the atmosphere is concerned.

422
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. There would still be global troubles, yes, But

423
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: in reading on these scenarios, it made me really want

424
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: to move to Australia.

425
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: Well that's another thing too. How many people would be

426
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: like I needed to get out of the United States,

427
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: so I moved down to Mexico, or I'm moving down

428
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: to Brazil, or I'm moving down to Australia, And then

429
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 2: the infrastructure in those countries are just super stressed because

430
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: the northern hemisphere that survived is suddenly moving down to

431
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: the southern hemisphere. Yeah, that's another widespread effect.

432
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: Mexico would help you too much, though.

433
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: Well, weren't they like super helpful in Independence Day? Was

434
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: it Independence Day or the morning or no, the day

435
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: after tomorrow everybody starts having to move south because North

436
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: America is just frozen ice sheet.

437
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I just mean as far as you'd have

438
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: to go pretty far south, further south in Mexico if

439
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: you want to escape the atmospheric fallout.

440
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: Oh, you're right, So Ecuador.

441
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what is it like half of Africa and

442
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: South America or in the southern hemisphere? Yeah, probably not half.

443
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the northern hemisphere would show up at the

444
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: Southern hemisphere's doorstep. I'd be like Christmas in July. We'll

445
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: get used to it.

446
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: That's right. Your drain goes the other way when you

447
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: release the water from the tub. Yea nido, And.

448
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: I know Christmas doesn't fall in July. It was a

449
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: metaphorical statement everyone, Yeah, I get you.

450
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: Nominal nuclear winners number three. That is what they consider

451
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: the low end full scale nuclear war, right, but still

452
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: full scale six thousand to twelve thousand nuclear weapons. That's

453
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: all just six to twelve thousand nuclear bombs.

454
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: Right, and we're talking a megaton or more bombs and

455
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: a mega ton was I think fifty Hiroshima and Nagasaki

456
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: bombs combined, So twelve thousand times fifty of those for

457
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: this kind of nominal nuclear war.

458
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of zeros.

459
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

460
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: They predicted noon sunlight would be about a third of

461
00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: what it was global temperature drops of eighteen degrees. That's

462
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: bad news, my friend. It would destroy a lot of

463
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: the ozone layer and again, the Southern hemisphere wouldn't experience

464
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: major climactic change.

465
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: To cut to the Southern hemisphere, they're all at the beach.

466
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: There's like topical music playing.

467
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: But they have no wheat.

468
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: Who needs wheat when you got wrong drinks?

469
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: That's a t shirt. Josh Clark said that one number

470
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: four substantial. That is full scale nuclear war, freezing temperatures,

471
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: big time fallout. The whole day would be like it's overcast,

472
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: billions of humans dead, billions, billions and billions species going extinct,

473
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: and finally possible damage to the Southern hemisphere finally possibly.

474
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: And then the last two we can just bunch together.

475
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: I think severe and extreme, less than one percent of

476
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: the sunlight getting through for months and months on end,

477
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: global temperature dropping, no photosynthesis happening, every crop dying, all

478
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: life perishing. Let's just go ahead and wrap it up

479
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: right there.

480
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, as Robert puts it, most of the planet's life

481
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: would perish within the chili confines of this black atmospheric tomb.

482
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a little love Craft in him, does.

483
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 2: He does this unnameable tomb Chuckers. Let's take another break

484
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: and then we will come back and talk about the

485
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: fallout from nuclear winter theory.

486
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: Stoff with the jaw shot.

487
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: So, like we said, Carl Sagan and his friends got

488
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: together and basically took it upon themselves to educate the

489
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: public about the potential catastrophe that could happen as a

490
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: result of nuclear war. Everybody before was like, Yeah, that

491
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: would really suck to be in a city that a

492
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: nuclear bomb went off on, but maybe it wouldn't be

493
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: my city. I live in Schenectady, New York. No one's

494
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: gonna bomb s Connective, so I'm probably gonna be Okay.

495
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: These guys said, Hey, Western civilization, not just in the US,

496
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: but also the USSR, that's not necessarily the case, You

497
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: too will be affected. There's gonna be big problems after

498
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: a nuclear war, so much so that let's make sure

499
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: that our leaders never do this right. Wake up basically

500
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: is what they were doing. And so Sagan and his

501
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: friends created a paper and it's now called the tas

502
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: Paper after all of their names.

503
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: Right, Turco, Tune, Ackerman, Polk, and Sagan.

504
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: Okay, And they wrote this paper and had it published

505
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: in Science, the pre eminent scientific journal in the United States.

506
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: It was a big deal. They also held a very

507
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: well publicized conference, and Carl Sagan, apparently without the group's

508
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: knowledge or blessing, went off and also wrote a piece

509
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: in Parade magazine. Yeah, to make sure that every dick

510
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: and Jane in the US knew about this. It was

511
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: like a three page article about the nuclear winner, which

512
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: is a new term at the time, complete with illustrations

513
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: where like the earth was like this dead, lifeless what's

514
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: called like a gray chalk billiard ball, basically just really

515
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: scary stuff. And then he also simultaneously wrote another longer

516
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: piece that was in Foreign Affairs that's a little more wonky.

517
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: So Sagan went off after writing this scientific paper and

518
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: publicized it to policymakers and to the American public.

519
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the early nineteen eighties.

520
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: And yes, it was nineteen eighty three, and you this

521
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: was before all the science was in. This is from

522
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: the first paper, before the first papers conference was even held, right,

523
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of people, including people who were on

524
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: his side about this issue, were really mad at them

525
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: because it opened up this group and the whole idea

526
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 2: of nuclear Winner to allegations that they were fear mongering

527
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: and that they were basically trying to sell the public

528
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: on science, which is, you know, that's not what science does. Yes,

529
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: pure science is about research and coming up with facts,

530
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: and whether they're popular or unpopular, it doesn't matter. Science

531
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: is science, in fact is fact. A good theory is

532
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: a good theory. But these guys again were concerned that

533
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: something really, really bad could happen, and they went to

534
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: the trouble of taking it upon themselves to advertise it

535
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: to the public. But again Segon going off and dow

536
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: this it really opened up for a lot of allegations

537
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: and debate that took place afterward.

538
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but some say that their work and the t

539
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Taps Report actually did help cool things down in the

540
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: Cold War a little bit.

541
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it wasn't just these American scientists.

542
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: They worked with Soviet scientists as well, and apparently sometimes

543
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: it went good, sometimes it didn't go so well, But

544
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: they're both sides were working on this issue, and the

545
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: fact that it got so much publicity actually created a

546
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: firestorm of back and forth in the scientific community, and

547
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: this issue ended up getting really well studied.

548
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did. And seven years later they revised the

549
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: report in nineteen ninety and it had new, more modernized data,

550
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: and it wasn't quite as dire, which some critics were like,

551
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: all right, this is a little more reasonable.

552
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: Yes, they revised it to call it the Nuclear Autumn.

553
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone loves autumn.

554
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Autumn's good autumn all the time. They'd be wonderful.

555
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: Oh man, that would be wonderful. That'd be Chuck's world.

556
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: And they there are disagreements over that still, and they

557
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: basically there's a few four variables that are always the

558
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: factors that are the unknowns, and it's really they're all

559
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: to me kind of one four versions of the same variable,

560
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: which is we don't know how much smoke there would be, Yes,

561
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: we just don't know. And number one is how much

562
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: material is there to burn? So the idea is you

563
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: drop a bomb on a city, a nuclear bomb, and

564
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: everything catches on fire and that creates tremendous amounts of smoke.

565
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: But since these are all theoretical and you don't know

566
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: what would happen if you drop something the size on like,

567
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: let's say a major city like New York, they're like,

568
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: what would be there to burn? Like, we just don't know.

569
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's yeah. So if you dropped it on

570
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: a city, is it an old city that's that isn't

571
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: super modern, sure, and therefore isn't built out of like

572
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: lots of plasts that can get into the atmosphere and

573
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: really mess things up.

574
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the really bad stuff.

575
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's an old city, maybe the burning wouldn't

576
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: be so bad even after a nuclear holocaust. Or maybe

577
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: you're not shooting nuclear bombs two cities, but to other

578
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: nuclear installations that are out in the middle of like

579
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: nowhere in Nebraska.

580
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: Right, because we have I mean we've there's been like

581
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: two thousand nuclear bombs detonated, but they only two on

582
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: a cities, right, exactly. Everything else has been out of

583
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: the ocean or out in the middle of nowhere, and

584
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: there's been no fire.

585
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: Right. The assumption is that though if you shot a

586
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: nuclear bomb at an at a modern city, a lot

587
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: of really toxic smoke would be produced. That's probably the

588
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: worst case scenario in both the immediate nuclear holocaust and

589
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: the fallout the nuclear winner as a result, because of

590
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: all the smoke that would be created.

591
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the fallout from nine to eleven,

592
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: and that was two buildings, right, you know.

593
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

594
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: The second variable is how much would remain in the atmosphere,

595
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: and then how much goes back to the earth. Yeah,

596
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: no one really knows that at all. How much sunlight

597
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: would be deflected? Again, just theorizing, and.

598
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: You can go back and plug in these numbers.

599
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

600
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: The problem is if you're a detractor of nuclear winter theory,

601
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 2: you would say, that's a guess, right, where'd you get

602
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: that number? Yeah, you know, and you could take every

603
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: number and come up with a different model for each one.

604
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: They usually don't do that, but even still, it's like

605
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: which one's going to be the one?

606
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: And again it goes back to how much smoke would

607
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: there be to begin with? Yeah, and then finally, when

608
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: did it happen? If it was actually in winter, perhaps

609
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: it's not so bad.

610
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, nuclear winter and winter ironically is the best case scenario.

611
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: The best case scenario of the bad scenarios.

612
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: Right, So they did initially back off of their findings.

613
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: They said that it was there could initially be like

614
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: a thirty five to forty degree drop in global temperatures celsius.

615
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: So we're talking like seventy degrees seventy two degrees farentheight

616
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: drop in temperatures.

617
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: So that's about full on nuclear war.

618
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: Yes, later on as they revised their findings and more again,

619
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: more and more scientists got involved and studied this issue.

620
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: They came upon what seemed to be a consensus that

621
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: you could probably count on something like a fifteen degrees

622
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: celsius drop in global temperatures, which would be substantial and

623
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: could still have widespread effects. Right, So this from this debate,

624
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: nuclear winner kind of got settled on. There was a

625
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: scientific consensus that came about, and there was also consensus

626
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: that not only would there be huge problems inland, there

627
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 2: would be oceanic problems as well because one of the

628
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: things one of the great casualties of detonating nuclear bombs

629
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: is the ozone layer. The fire ball from the blast

630
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: burns up nitrogen, converting it to nitrogen oxide, and nitrogen

631
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: oxide just punches holes, basically chemically burns the ozone layer.

632
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: So then when all that smoke that's acting as like

633
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 2: an umbrella that's blocking out the sunlight falls back to Earth,

634
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: all that particular matter falls back to Earth and is radioactive.

635
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: By the way, now the sunlight that does come through

636
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: is way hotter and has way more UV light than

637
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 2: it had before the nuclear bombs went off.

638
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: Because we had our little delicate balance that's now disrupted exactly.

639
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: The problem with that for the oceans is that that

640
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: UV light would likely be too intense for phytoplankton at

641
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: the ocean's surface. Well, that is the keystone species for

642
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: the ocean aquatic environments. The ecosystems all start with phytoplankton,

643
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: and zooplankton feed on phytoplankton, Little fish feed on zooplankton,

644
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: Larger fish feed on little fish, and so on and

645
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: so on until so if you get rid of the

646
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: phyto plankton, you're in big trouble. So there would be

647
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: huge ramifications, and science came to a consensus on this,

648
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: but again it was attacked very early on by nuclear

649
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: proliferation hawks as basically being against the interests of United

650
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: States national security, and then later on it continued to

651
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: be attacked. It became a customary traditional flashpoint among conservatives

652
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: as a great example of the links that hippie environmental

653
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 2: scientists will go to to dupe the American public into

654
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 2: being scared about nuclear bombs and just nuclear stuff in general.

655
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: Like Michael Crichton famously attacked it in a two thousand

656
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: and three speech, and he his whole thing. He was

657
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: very famously a climate denier. He was a climate skeptic

658
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 2: until his death as far as I know. As he did, yeah,

659
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: and he wrote some great books, but it was also

660
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: like contrarian by nature is what he said as well.

661
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: But I get the impression that he tended to land

662
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 2: on the more conservative, anti environmental side. And on this case,

663
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: he also attacked the Nuclear Winner as well. And what

664
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: he accused these guys of doing is creating science by consensus. Right,

665
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: That to me is that's just like a one to

666
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: two sucker punch. So the initial scientists that challenged Nuclear

667
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 2: Winner said, you guys can't even agree. There's no consensus, Like,

668
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: you can't be certain in what you're saying, so therefore

669
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: we don't need to take you seriously. So they said, okay,

670
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: you know what, We're going to get all these scientists

671
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: around the world together to study this issue and we're

672
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: going to come to a consensus. And when they did

673
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 2: years later, guys like Michael Crichton said, you guys are

674
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: practicing science by consensus and politicizing science. It's not real science.

675
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: So it was like they were very much damned if

676
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: they did, and damned if they didn't, and ultimately you

677
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: just have to kind of decide is it worth the risk.

678
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: Maybe we can't say for certain, Yeah, and at the

679
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: time you couldn't say for certain. What's cool is that

680
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: some of these same climate scientists are still at work

681
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: and they have come up with fairly recent models, using

682
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: very sophisticated climate models compared to the stuff they were

683
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: using back in the eighties and even the nineties. Yeah,

684
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: the stuff they're using now says, actually, we think nuclear

685
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: winner might be worse than was initially predicted.

686
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if it's not a full scale nuclear war,

687
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: I think the worry there's not as much worry these

688
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: days for something like that. What the worry is now

689
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: is that some rogue nation gets a hold of one,

690
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: or maybe even not a rogue nation, just Indian Pakistan

691
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 1: drop a couple of nuclear bombs.

692
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: So that's the model, and like that is entirely possible.

693
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: I think a one megaton detonation is what they did

694
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: this model on, and it was it had a substantial effect.

695
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they said ten years of smoke clouds and a

696
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: three year temperature drop of about two point twenty five

697
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit.

698
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: Which doesn't sound like much. But if you go back

699
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: and you read that scientist's study, his executive summary of

700
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: the study, he points out that that kind of drop

701
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: ultimately equals a shortened growing season by ten to twenty days,

702
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: and that lasts ten to twenty days makes or breaks

703
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: a crop like that means you can either harvest it

704
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: or it dies before it matures and can be harvested.

705
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: And so even just a couple of degrees can lead

706
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: to widespread crop failure. Yeah, but this is just if

707
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: India and Pakistan shoot fifty bombs at one another in

708
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 2: a regional war. Yeah, it could have that effect around

709
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: the world.

710
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: So we mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those are the only

711
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: places we can look. But like we pointed out, the

712
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: bombs were so different back then, it's not the best comparison.

713
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: But as far as looking at what kind of fires

714
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: could happen, you can't tell a whole lot. In Hiroshima

715
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: there were more fires than in Nagasaki, just because of

716
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: the way the geography is in the two cities. But

717
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: in neither case did they see a ton of secondary fires.

718
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't blacking out the sky, there was black rain,

719
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: but apparently, you know, like a week later, most of

720
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: that stuff had cleared up. But again that is you

721
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: can't even really compare the two.

722
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: No, it's a single twenty one kill a ton bomb.

723
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, we're talking.

724
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: Fifty of those going off in the same area.

725
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: But that report that you mentioned on just like if

726
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: Indian Pakistan, well how much was it ten mega.

727
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: Tons fifty fifty or no, it was one megaton, So

728
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: fifty of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.

729
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: Well, it was enough to cause the Atomic Scientists Science

730
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: and Security Board to move the dooms to clock two

731
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: minutes closer to midnight. And the Doom's day clock is

732
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: some people say it's good science, some people say they're

733
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: fear mongering, But what it is is is it's a

734
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: design that basically says, here's how close we are to

735
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: destroying ourselves as a civilization. And there are a lot

736
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: of factors that go into it, like biotechnology or cybertechnology,

737
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: but the main two are obviously nuclear weapons and climate

738
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: change are the two main things that factor into where

739
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: the Doom's day clock sits. And I think in the

740
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties they've only changed it how many times? Eighteen

741
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: times since it was created nineteen forty seven. Have they

742
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: changed the hands on the clock? In the nineteen fifties

743
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: it was at two minutes till midnight in the early

744
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. The best I think it's been in the

745
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: early nine nineties was seventeen minutes till midnight. Oh nice, Yeah,

746
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: doesn't feel good.

747
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a.

748
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: Lot of time.

749
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: What are we right now?

750
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: Right now, we are the closest we've been since nineteen

751
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: eighty three. And on January twenty second of this year,

752
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: it was changed to three minutes till midnight. Is where

753
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: they sit, and they have a big had a big

754
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: press release. I'll just read the opening and closing paragraphs.

755
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: The opening paragraph in twenty fifteen, unchecked climate change, global

756
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: nuclear weapon modernizations, and outsized nuclear weapons arsenals pose extraordinary

757
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: and undeniable threats to the continued existence of humanity, and

758
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: world leaders have failed to act with the speed or

759
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: on the scale required to protect citizens from potential catastrophe.

760
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: These failures of political leadership endanger every person on Earth.

761
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: And then the final paragraph, and there's lots of fun

762
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: stuff in between, Yeah, just like fart jokes and stuff.

763
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: And then they close with in twenty fifteen, with the

764
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: clockhand move forward to three minutes to midnight. The board

765
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: feels compelled to add, with the sense of great urgency,

766
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: the probability of global catastrophe is very high and the

767
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: actions needed to reduce the risk of disaster must be

768
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: taken very soon. They don't mess around. No, And even

769
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: though that we've we had been doing a good job

770
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: of reducing the amount of warheads between the United States

771
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: and Russia, but things have slowed to a snail's pace now.

772
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: From two thousand and nine to twenty thirteen, Obama cut

773
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: only three hundred and nine warheads from the stockpile. And

774
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: they're basically saying, we're not doing this as fast as

775
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: we need to. Yeah, like we need to act now.

776
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, there's other people who are saying we need

777
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: to rebuild our nuclear arsenal because it's aging and rotting

778
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: and will be useless by twenty twenty to twenty thirty.

779
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: How are we going to drop nuclear bombs on people

780
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: in the future?

781
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 2: Right, it's weird, like some people are trying to reignite

782
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:54,919
Speaker 2: the Cold War.

783
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: Well, trust we outs. I don't agree with it, but

784
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: I know that most of those people aren't saying, hey,

785
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: so we can bomb people, it's so we can keep

786
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: each other in check, yes, which was the Cold War.

787
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: We could also all over again get rid of nuclear

788
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: bombs entirely.

789
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: We could do that.

790
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: And you know, Sagan's whole thing, I should say, And

791
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: it's funny that he's kind of like the villain of

792
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 2: this whole thing, of the whole nuclear winner debate, because

793
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 2: he's such a revered figure, such a great guy. But

794
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: he really, I purposefully made some serious missteps as far

795
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: as publicizing the results went before they were fully in.

796
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: But his whole thing was and if you read his

797
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: foreign policy thing, his article, it's really really good. It's

798
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: not too obtuse, so like it's kind of fun to read.

799
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 2: But it's called nuclear war and climactic catastrophe colon some

800
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: policy implications, and he says like, we don't know, you know,

801
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: what the what the right answer is, We don't know

802
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: if it's entirely possible that nuclear winner. Maybe our ideas

803
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: are overblown or whatever. But he said, I'm not willing

804
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: to take the chance, right, Why should we take the chance.

805
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: That's his whole thing, like why risk it? Right?

806
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: So his solution is, how about this US and USSR.

807
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: How about you de escalate the arms race, deproliferate until

808
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: you get down to a threshold that science has said. Okay,

809
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: nuclear winner probably couldn't happen beyond this payload, right. Yeah,

810
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: So even if all of the nuclear bombs in the

811
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: world at this lower number were set off, we still

812
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't go into nuclear winter. But you guys can take

813
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: out all of your major city centers and still fight

814
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 2: your nuclear war, but the rest of the world won't

815
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 2: won't be destroyed by it. Yeah, that was his solution,

816
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: and no one took him up on it.

817
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: I've never understood. I don't know, man, We'll do one

818
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: on climate change at some point too. But I've never

819
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: understood why people and I get the economics play factor,

820
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: but why risking the future of mankind for your ancestors

821
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: to follow is worth it.

822
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: A lot of it is fear, Like a lot of

823
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: these people who have over the last decades, you know,

824
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: pushed for that kind of thing, like fear that you know,

825
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: the US will be caught with his pants down, like

826
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: genuinely feared the Soviet Union, and like their heart was

827
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 2: in it like that. But I mean, if it's fascinating

828
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 2: to me, this whole like basically secret publicity war that's

829
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: been going, that went on throughout the twentieth then it's

830
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 2: well into the twenty first centuries. Yeah, there's a book again,

831
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned it called Merchants of Doubt. Everybody

832
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 2: should read.

833
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, and you know what, save your emails to

834
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: me because you can still think what you want to think. Yeah,

835
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: I just personally don't get it. I'm not going to

836
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: throw stones at you say you're wrong. I probably should,

837
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: but I won't because it's not nice to throw stones.

838
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: It isn't chuck. Are you good?

839
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm great.

840
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Nuclear Winner, you

841
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: can read this fine article written by Robert Lamb by

842
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: typing Nuclear Winner in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com.

843
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 2: Since I said search bar, it's time for listener mega.

844
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: Oh no, my friend, it's time for and D. All right,

845
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: this is the time that we all know and love

846
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: when Josh and I read out and say thanks, we

847
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 1: give thanks. We should call this Thanksgiving and non administrative details.

848
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: Oh okay, ready, no, no, that's okay.

849
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: Because administrative details is such a weird name.

850
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 2: This is long, it's meant to be so this.

851
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: Is when we thank people for the very kind gifts

852
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: that they have sent us over the months. And dude,

853
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: I think this goes back all the way to January

854
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: for me.

855
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh man, I've got one for Christmas cookies. Demona calin

856
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 2: Tine and Grandma calling Tine.

857
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: I think we always say her name wrong.

858
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: By the way, No, I think she corrected us and

859
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: said it was Valentine, So I think I'm saying it right.

860
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: Mann's gonna be so mad at me.

861
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: Calantine.

862
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: All right? Is the administrative detail music playing?

863
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: Sounds like it great? Can't you hear that?

864
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 1: I'll get it started with. Richard sent us a guide

865
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: to the round things of the Solar system.

866
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: Very fun, very nice. I remember that. Yeah, Blair, send

867
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 2: us a plug in key holder. You come home, plug

868
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: your key chain in and you never forget it. It's

869
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 2: pretty awesome. Actually, you can get them on Amazon Electric

870
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: socket unplugged chain holder. Search for that. It will bring

871
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 2: it up.

872
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: That's right. I got a postcard, very nice postcard from

873
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: Jean Pierre Bonasco and Stephanie Creek from Port Locroy, Antarctica.

874
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: Nice. And it's worth saying again thank you to Mona

875
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 2: Colintine and Grandma Colin tinme for our Christmas cookies. We

876
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 2: look forward to them again this year.

877
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: Yes, we certainly do. Uh Oh, we've gotten nugat, homemade

878
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: nugat from Kristin Ferguson. Okay, it's so delicious.

879
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 2: I am hooked on that stuff.

880
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: It's great. It is she you can find her at

881
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: Solace Sweets.

882
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 2: Man, it is so good.

883
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Christian's been sending us as homemade nugat for years

884
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: and I was always like, I mean nugat, I don't

885
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: know about that, and then I put it in my mouth.

886
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 2: It's amazing stuff.

887
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: It's really good.

888
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: And then we also got some sweets from Dude Sweet

889
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: Chocolate out of Texas. I think they might be out

890
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: of Dallas. They made like they sent us really great chocolates.

891
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: But they also make these incredible marshmallows too. They made

892
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: a sweet potato marshmallow.

893
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

894
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: And dudes at Dude Sweet Chocolate, thank you for those.

895
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: They were amazing. You MEI was crazy for those marshmallows

896
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: like I am for the nugat.

897
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: That was quite the bounty. I remember that.

898
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

899
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: As always every Christmas, our buddy Aaron Cooper and Kansas

900
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: sends us great printouts of these great photoshops that he

901
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: does of us that he puts online and.

902
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see him on Internet round up.

903
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we even got t shirts this year of Shay Gevara,

904
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: Josh and Chock. So Coop you're the best.

905
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true, Coop. Mark Allen in the Trade

906
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 2: Monkey team sent us some beautiful jewelry made by female

907
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: artisans in Southeast Asia and traded fairly. The key.

908
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: Our buddy van Nostrin send us a book.

909
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: One which book.

910
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: Well, he's always sending us stuff, so I honestly can't

911
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: even remember which book, but we have like boxes full

912
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:17,959
Speaker 1: of things that he said.

913
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: He sent us a CD of the Shags Philosophy of

914
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: the World. You know, what's known as the worst album

915
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: ever recorded. Yeah, it's got it in my desk.

916
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: That's a since of humor.

917
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 2: The problem is my computer doesn't have a CD drive

918
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 2: any longer. Have you noticed that it's gone? No, Yeah,

919
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 2: computers don't have those any longer. Try to find it

920
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: on my computer. I defy you.

921
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: I was like, what's that little slot? And you're like,

922
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: that's where the tissues.

923
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: Come out, right, it's the coffee cup holder.

924
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: Our buddy is from Venice Sinking Band send us an

925
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: LP sand in lines and a CD. What we do

926
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: is secret and there are our friends from Athens, Yep, Georgia.

927
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Huge, huge thanks to Hillary loaves Are, who has sent

928
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 2: us a lot of cheese over the last year, some

929
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: of the best cheese Flathead Lake Cheese in Montana, which

930
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 2: like they make a happy goodha that's to die for.

931
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 2: It is very good at Flathead Lake Cheese. And she

932
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 2: sent us some awesome t shirts that' say mouthfeel on them. Yeah,

933
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: loves than our bar episode.

934
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: She's the best. She and her husband might have been

935
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: big time fans. They're very active on our Facebook page

936
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 1: and they like drove to Seattle.

937
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: For our show from Montana.

938
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah she's a teacher.

939
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they sent you me and Emily Earring. So

940
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: thanks for that from all of us, right, Jerry got nothing.

941
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: Uh, Tommy Lucrick, Tommy Luckrich, Lucrick Lettrich, he sent us

942
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: a nice letter.

943
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: The man whose last name you say four times.

944
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: Well, he's the guy. He's walking from Seattle to New

945
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: York City And if you want to follow this, I

946
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: don't know, he might be there by now. Tommy Walks

947
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 1: dot tumblr dot com, you can check that out.

948
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: Okay, huge, huge thanks from me personally. Dolores No who.

949
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember when we did the

950
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 2: Hot Wheels episode, ohy do I I said that the

951
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: hot wheels I would love to have was this like

952
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: like station wagon camper that said good time camper on it.

953
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 2: I remember she mailed it to me.

954
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: That's pretty remarkable.

955
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so thank you very much, laurs No, that was

956
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 2: very nice of you.

957
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, if anyone's listening, my favorite hot wheel was the

958
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: one that had one thousand dollars stuffed in the body

959
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: of the car.

960
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: That's the good one.

961
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: Stephan Brahm he sent us some currency banknotes, yeah, which

962
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: I've never collected money, but he sent a nineteen fifty

963
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: three dollar certificate, a nineteen fifty seven series two dollars bill,

964
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: and an eighteen seventy four fractional currency ten cent note.

965
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was pretty neat.

966
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: I think you got the ten cent note, didn't you, because.

967
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: We spied it up. I spent it on candy.

968
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: No, what's this it's ten cents or it's.

969
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: A fraction of a note. Meteorologist Michael Irb, who also

970
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: moons moon Lights as a young adult murder mystery author

971
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: send us a book of one of his murder mysteries,

972
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 2: Kevin McLeod in The Seaside Storm. It's about a little

973
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 2: weather detective. It's pretty cute.

974
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: Jeff Payton sent us a book Darwin's Black Box.

975
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 2: And Bethany at the Base Element the dot Base Dot

976
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: Element at gmail dot com. If you want any of

977
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 2: the flir to sell caramels, she sent us, we can

978
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: highly recommend them. And I got one more from both

979
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: of us. Chuff all right, Dan Kent name ring a bell?

980
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: It does?

981
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: He sent us the pints of Pliny the Elder ew Yes.

982
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 1: Thank you, Dan, that's why it rings a bell.

983
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 2: You're a top not human being. I think we met

984
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 2: him in San Francisco to show yes.

985
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: Thanks dude, the famous world renowned planning the Elder beer. Yes,

986
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: which have finally tried it and it was delicious.

987
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 2: It is dealers ship. Thank you very much. Everybody. We

988
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: have more. If you didn't hear your name, hang tight.

989
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 2: We've got probably a couple more episodes worth of administrative details.

990
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: That's right, or Thanksgiving is what we're calling it now.

991
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: And in the meantime you can get in touch with us.

992
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: Send us an email to stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks dot

993
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: com and as always, joined us at our home on

994
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 2: the web, Stuff Youshould Know dot com. Stuff You Should

995
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

996
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

997
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.