Speaker 1: I am all in again.
Speaker 2: That's just too.
Speaker 1: Luke Steiner with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast. Hey, everybody's
Speaker 1: Scott Patterson. I am all on podcasts, one of them productions.
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Media, iHeart podcast. Very special guest here on our
Speaker 1: episode twenty season two recap. Mister Clay Aiken himself is here.
Speaker 1: He is if you don't know him, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you do. He's a singer, actor, father, and was the
Speaker 1: runner up in American Idol and Apprentice. His debut album,
Speaker 1: Measure of a Man, went multi platinum. He is a
Speaker 1: huge fan of Gilmore Girls and was referenced in the
Speaker 1: show season four episode eighteen two tick Boom boom. Clay
Speaker 1: and I are going to discuss season two episode twenty
Speaker 1: help one at air date May seventh, two thousand and two. Clay,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for thank you for having me. There
Speaker 2: was a heck of an introduction. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Oh I cut it short. There's so much more I.
Speaker 2: Am probably I probably don't know barely half of what
Speaker 2: the people who listen know about the show, but obviously
Speaker 2: I recognize its cultural significance and did a little bit
Speaker 2: of honing up a little brushing up on my season
Speaker 2: two episode twenty for today to be able to talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all we're discussing. Yeah, I mean, trust me.
Speaker 1: In the Gilmour fandom, I am pretty much to Novice myself.
Speaker 1: Oh god, but that's saying a lot. They are steeped
Speaker 1: in this show. They know it chapter and verse. Man.
Speaker 1: I just this is just my second go around watching it.
Speaker 3: So, oh, you're going through it.
Speaker 2: So you're going through it right chronologically fell for a
Speaker 2: second time for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now when when.
Speaker 2: Was the first time you watched it? What was the
Speaker 2: first run through? It originally aired.
Speaker 1: Four years ago when we started this podcast, I'd never
Speaker 1: seen it.
Speaker 2: So wait, so you didn't watch it when you first
Speaker 2: when it first aired? That is correct, Okay, you're like
Speaker 2: that with everything you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's growing on me, man. I mean
Speaker 1: it's a great show.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's very difficult to when you know
Speaker 2: the people almost as much as you know the more
Speaker 2: than you know the characters, sometimes it probably is very
Speaker 2: difficult to watch.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm not an actor.
Speaker 1: No, no, it was at the time, but you know,
Speaker 1: twenty five years later, twenty years later it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a different person, so you don't Yeah, it's okay to
Speaker 1: watch it now, you know. But anyway, so let's let's
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kick off with a synopsis. Newcomer Open Stars
Speaker 1: Hollow First Music Store, the one and only Carol King Richard,
Speaker 1: who probably wrote the greatest theme song in the history
Speaker 1: of television. Richard decides to kick off his new business
Speaker 1: by searching for a secretary. Then Laurel I starts to
Speaker 1: help out at the office, and Richard surprisingly wishes she
Speaker 1: would stay. Directed by the great Chris Long written by
Speaker 1: Alan Heinberg. Lukes has closed. He's gone fishing. There's been
Speaker 1: a fight between Luke and Laurel I. Everybody needs to
Speaker 1: cool off. Rory is concerned it's her fault that Luke's
Speaker 1: has closed because of the accident. Rory and Laurel I
Speaker 1: go to the Hungry Diner to eat breakfast. In their
Speaker 1: critical of the menu and coffee cups. We have Patrica
Speaker 1: darbo on a few weeks ago who played the waitress
Speaker 1: in this episode. She was great in this scene. Clay,
Speaker 1: we have never seen lukes Diners closed before. Does this
Speaker 1: show the severity of the fight between him and Laurlei
Speaker 1: and a situation with Jess Well.
Speaker 2: I mean it certainly does to Roaring, right she she
Speaker 2: was stressed out about it more than anybody. Yeah, uh yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I think that's probably what the the intention was, right,
Speaker 2: if it's never been closed, you've never been away, that
Speaker 2: that to to really kind of underline that all that
Speaker 2: there's a lot of there's a lot of subtext in
Speaker 2: the show, which is what makes it good. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of like real deep thought into why, and not
Speaker 2: every show does that. Some stuff is you know, just
Speaker 2: very surface, but Gilmore Girls was good at kind of
Speaker 2: making sure that there was always a thread underneath that
Speaker 2: that propelled the story and really made it authentic. So
Speaker 2: probably so having hit, having having Luke leave town, or
Speaker 2: at least leave work close it because it also throws
Speaker 2: it throws a kink in in larealized day and you know,
Speaker 2: kind of messes with their schedule, their routine too. Maybe
Speaker 2: you were I'm sorry, maybe he was thinking of a
Speaker 2: way that he could screw with him a little bit
Speaker 2: and did it on purpose for that reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the question, right, Did he
Speaker 1: leave town to send a message or or does this
Speaker 1: just mean that he's he's taking this fight very very
Speaker 1: seriously and he needed time to just sort of be
Speaker 1: by himself and convalesce with nature as it were.
Speaker 2: Well, you, no one knows him better than you, so
Speaker 2: do you. He doesn't seem like the type of what's
Speaker 2: the word, I can't even think of the word punitive person.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna be punish. I mean, he doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like somebody who's gonna punish Laura. I. So he probably
Speaker 2: just needed a break.
Speaker 1: He needed a break. Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2: He didn't need to see her first thing in the morning.
Speaker 1: He just, you know, I think he's just a little
Speaker 1: bit wounded and he needed to go retreat a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, and think about what he did because he
Speaker 1: you know, he yelled and screamed too. So all right,
Speaker 1: So seems like this is the biggest fight Luke and
Speaker 1: Laurel I have ever gotten into Clay who apologizes first
Speaker 1: in this situation? Who do you think should? Oh?
Speaker 3: Well, I gotta.
Speaker 2: I definitely think Laura I should because she annoys me
Speaker 2: all the time. I yes, she kind of She's She's
Speaker 2: an intense personality, so personally, I'm sure I've sided with Luke.
Speaker 3: I have been known to roll my eyes at Laura
Speaker 3: a few times.
Speaker 1: You know what I really thought, this episode is now
Speaker 1: my favorite episode of all of them, Health Wanted, This
Speaker 1: is my favorite episode. Well, you're barely in it, but
Speaker 1: not really right, I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, because it's about there's so much, so much gravity
Speaker 2: weight from your character.
Speaker 1: Right, So I think that's great writing, and I think
Speaker 1: she's never been as funny in an episode, Laura Lauren.
Speaker 1: I think from beginning to end, this was just just
Speaker 1: a comedy masterclass showcase in great writing and great great
Speaker 1: acting and great comedic timing mixed with all that drama stuff.
Speaker 1: It was a perfect use of supporting characters like Sally
Speaker 1: Struthers delivered maybe her funniest speech of all of them,
Speaker 1: and to Rory, perfect use of Lane, perfect use of
Speaker 1: missus Kim even though you want more missus Kim. It was,
Speaker 1: everything was just perfectly balanced. In my opinion, it was
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: It's definitely one of the funnier, at least more overtly funny.
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop laughing. I was roaring through the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just like the joke and the
Speaker 1: cops Yeah, it was just so many great one liners,
Speaker 1: just fantastic. All right, So let's talk about the fallout
Speaker 1: from Rory's accident where she fractured her wrist. Dean's coming
Speaker 1: home from his trip, but he doesn't know about the accident.
Speaker 1: Rory gets out of Friday night dinner so she can
Speaker 1: be there to explain when he gets home. She writes
Speaker 1: him a letter explaining everything. Dean reacts.
Speaker 2: We never know exactly what she says in it, but
Speaker 2: right because he doesn't, I mean, he didn't read it
Speaker 2: out loud.
Speaker 3: He just reacts to it.
Speaker 1: Well, we know that she starts it out by saying
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you right right then, but
Speaker 1: then he goes downhill from there. We can only speculate
Speaker 1: what was in the rest of the letter, but it
Speaker 1: was I think it was just her sort of confessing to,
Speaker 1: you know, facts as they happen, because I think she,
Speaker 1: you know, in her fit of honesty, is you know,
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do in that situation. So
Speaker 1: the letter explains everything. He reacts. He keeps saying what
Speaker 1: what what shock? Shock?
Speaker 2: Shock, and ty I mean Rory does does does the
Speaker 2: letter because she just doesn't have it in her to
Speaker 2: say it out loud, because I found it really interesting
Speaker 2: that they chose to to have her write the letter,
Speaker 2: but then give it to him in person and stand
Speaker 2: there while he read it. I just just she didn't
Speaker 2: have the nerve to say the words, so she had
Speaker 2: to speak them. I mean, I would have thought, if
Speaker 2: you're gonna write a letter, you send it to him
Speaker 2: and not have to be there for his response.
Speaker 1: Were you a little worried for her safety at his
Speaker 1: potential reaction because he kicked the bag, which is going
Speaker 1: to scare her, which scared her a little bit because
Speaker 1: she's probably think of what me next? Is he going
Speaker 1: to kick me next? Did you ever fear that she
Speaker 1: was in any kind of do you know? Okay, here's
Speaker 1: a question. You didn't think that? No?
Speaker 2: I did, I mean, just just because now, was that
Speaker 2: was that? We'll see, I don't know the Was it
Speaker 2: an actor choice to kick the bag or no? That
Speaker 2: was written for him to do that, to be to
Speaker 2: be that angry. Was I supposed to be afraid for her?
Speaker 2: I guess because I wasn't.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, no, I okay, all right?
Speaker 2: But I also think she's a strong enough person that
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I mean, I think I've never I don't
Speaker 2: see Rory as as.
Speaker 1: Weak or beta, right, but I like the fact that
Speaker 1: this show will go there because it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: a comfort show and family friend, the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: it does get intense. The humor's intense, the sarcasm is biting,
Speaker 1: the feelings are intense. It's like it's it's it's funny, heartfelt.
Speaker 1: But man, it's a serious drama too, right, it could
Speaker 1: stand alone as a serious drama. Oh, I think some
Speaker 1: people confuse it for that.
Speaker 2: I think that that was my honestly, that was my
Speaker 2: reticence to even be interested in it years, you know,
Speaker 2: when it was originally on, because I assumed it's a
Speaker 2: drama about it a mother and a daughter, and I'm
Speaker 2: not going to enjoy that at all. But it's the
Speaker 2: humor that it's the humor and the well the pop
Speaker 2: culture report, the fact that it lives in this real
Speaker 2: world where so many other shows don't. But it's the
Speaker 2: humor that kind of makes it a pro suchable and
Speaker 2: palatable to people in a much wider demo than the
Speaker 2: CW normally had.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right? Yeah, So Rory talks to Laurala
Speaker 1: about Dean's reaction and then uh, you know, inviting her
Speaker 1: calming down and then just inviting her in for dinner
Speaker 1: because they're standing in front of his house, and that's
Speaker 1: that's a pretty pretty bold gesture to go to his house,
Speaker 1: hand him a letter, standing there face the fire, and
Speaker 1: then get invited in for dinner. It's probably she didn't
Speaker 1: expect that.
Speaker 2: Well, you hated him, then, you hated him more than
Speaker 2: than I did in general, because Laura I didn't love
Speaker 2: him either, right, people was he I mean, I didn't
Speaker 2: consider him.
Speaker 3: I didn't hate him in the beginning.
Speaker 1: Dean you're talking about You're talking about Dean in the beginning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't like I didn't like him in the beginning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't like him. After the scene with Laurel I
Speaker 1: in the house when he says, now it's my turn
Speaker 1: to talk and he, you know, he kind of gives
Speaker 1: her what for and I'm just like aa there again,
Speaker 1: it's because I think she talks too much.
Speaker 3: But you know what, she was the case.
Speaker 2: She obviously carried the show and you can't you can't
Speaker 2: enjoy the show unless you enjoy her.
Speaker 3: But there were about her that made me go.
Speaker 1: Ah, Right, right, right, all right. Then Laurie Rory then
Speaker 1: goes to apologize the tailor for destroying his bench sign
Speaker 1: in the accident, and then be Bett confronts Rory. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say confronts, but sees Rory and runs over to
Speaker 1: her and starts talking about Jess being a dirty little wolf. Great,
Speaker 1: great speech, great Sally Struthers performance, I mean, the best
Speaker 1: comedic actress out there. Really just unbelievable. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you think Lauren's good and then you get a Sally
Speaker 1: Strauthers come in there and boom right. Rory now realizes
Speaker 1: everyone in town is solely blaming Jess for the accident,
Speaker 1: and she feels defensive about it. So she's thrown off
Speaker 1: by Dean's reactions. She expected him to yell and scream,
Speaker 1: even break break up with her. What do you think
Speaker 1: of his psychology here is? Did he invite her in
Speaker 1: because he's just too afraid of losing her?
Speaker 3: Probably?
Speaker 2: I mean generally, I think he is constantly me his
Speaker 2: self esteem is not as high as it should be. Probably,
Speaker 2: and I think he's always a little afraid of it.
Speaker 2: But which is ironic because I think she's a little
Speaker 2: afraid of it too. But that you know, at that age,
Speaker 2: that's how everybody feels, right, right, So yeah, I imagine
Speaker 2: that he probably, Yeah, he's probably a little worried about that.
Speaker 2: He also do I mean, I don't think he loves
Speaker 2: that he's not I don't think he loves that he's
Speaker 2: not liked about people. And I think he I think
Speaker 2: he takes time to try to try to. He wants
Speaker 2: to be liked.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like he's like he's a buy the
Speaker 2: book person like herit he read a book on how
Speaker 2: to how to behave in cer certain situations, and he
Speaker 2: he does it that way. Yeah, I mean I imagine that
Speaker 2: that I see now I'm thinking about these the show
Speaker 2: in ways that I didn't back then, and certain things
Speaker 2: are coming back to my head. But I didn't think
Speaker 2: I don't I didn't think about the psychology of it.
Speaker 2: I saw it as a fun I saw I saw
Speaker 2: a humor in it and the playfulness in it, and
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily always go for the deep psychology of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's there. Right. Do you think that maybe
Speaker 1: it was on Rory's part a failed attempt to get
Speaker 1: Dean to break up with her. Where are these questions coming?
Speaker 1: From No, I didn't think that at all. No, I
Speaker 1: didn't think that.
Speaker 2: It doesn't come for a while though, So I don't
Speaker 2: think that she was already there.
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, all right, So okay, Clay, why do
Speaker 1: you think Rory's being so defensive? You think it's because
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to be looked at like a damaged
Speaker 1: little girl, or because she feels bad for Jess getting
Speaker 1: all the blame.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, she's a girl. She's a you know,
Speaker 2: a high school a high schooler who is very you know,
Speaker 2: she's defensive of her friends. And I think that, yeah,
Speaker 2: she probably, Yeah, I think she is a I think
Speaker 2: she's I think again, that goes back. That's kind of
Speaker 2: why this show connected so well, because the writers, the
Speaker 2: the showrunner were able to kind of really connect with
Speaker 2: how that demographic thought, you know, how a Tina high
Speaker 2: school girl would think. And yeah, I think she would
Speaker 2: get Listen, I've got a high schooler myself. It's a boy,
Speaker 2: but I you know, I've got a boy. But so
Speaker 2: it's completely different.
Speaker 3: But it's it's.
Speaker 2: Very difficult as a parent to remember what it's like
Speaker 2: how my brain worked when I was that age, and
Speaker 2: there are just a very few shows ever that I
Speaker 2: can think of, where writers have done a good job
Speaker 2: of thinking like high schoolers, like teenagers, like people whose
Speaker 2: frontal lobe has not completely formed yet. Think. And that's
Speaker 2: one thing that the show did brilliantly. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: think she gets defensive because she People get defensive when
Speaker 2: they don't when when the reaction is not how they
Speaker 2: expect it to be. Right, you prepare her, you sit
Speaker 2: at home, you think through all the different scenarios, and
Speaker 2: then when you go and actually do whatever you're doing,
Speaker 2: it never works out the way you planned, right, But
Speaker 2: if the scenario doesn't go that way, you you know,
Speaker 2: you jump to I think a defensive The reaction that
Speaker 2: you get from from Dean or from whoever, from the town,
Speaker 2: the town is not what you thought it would be,
Speaker 2: you get defensive. And I think that's probably why she's
Speaker 2: jumped to that defensive standpoint, because it's this is not
Speaker 2: what she thought was going to happen.
Speaker 1: Right. Also, she's appears to me that she's in love
Speaker 1: with them. She loves that kid, she loves Jess, she
Speaker 1: misses it.
Speaker 3: She thinks she does.
Speaker 1: She's well, okay, I'll grant you that she thinks she does,
Speaker 1: but she feels something powerful. There's a connection there, and
Speaker 1: she's concerned about him, you know, and not to jump
Speaker 1: the gun, but I think we felt that quite in
Speaker 1: a quite weighty way. That was actually quite moving in
Speaker 1: the very last scene and something we've never seen before
Speaker 1: scene between Luke and Rory late night at the diner
Speaker 1: drinking a cup of coffee talking about Jess as he okay,
Speaker 1: I know it's not his fault. It was quite touching,
Speaker 1: great piece of writing because it's said everything about how
Speaker 1: they're both concerned about him and how they both maybe
Speaker 1: feel like they failed him, and we're talking about a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old boy's life that is in turmoil, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of it just sort of achieved this tragic
Speaker 1: quality about it at the very last beat of the show,
Speaker 1: which is wow.
Speaker 2: Well, it was also a really good opportunity to build
Speaker 2: that character that that relationship between Rory and.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm too, just to Yah to kind of see
Speaker 1: him as a.
Speaker 2: Not a not a paternal figure, but certainly a certainly
Speaker 2: someone she could she could confide in in that way
Speaker 2: and talk about things that she couldn't talk She didn't
Speaker 2: she you know, she wouldn't couldn't talk about that with
Speaker 2: with her mom, right because Laura lies not was far
Speaker 2: more biased.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to have that that non biased third party
Speaker 2: opinion and the discussion with someone who she respected was
Speaker 2: a was a not just I mean, it was great writing, yes,
Speaker 2: but it was a sort of a important moment for
Speaker 2: the show, in the whole arc in general.
Speaker 1: M h Yeah, and it proved yet again that both
Speaker 1: people can be right and think that each other. I
Speaker 1: think Luke understands how Laurel I feel, but I think
Speaker 1: Laural I feels, you know, angry that Luke didn't protect
Speaker 1: her daughter from Jess, you know, didn't see what kind
Speaker 1: of trouble he could he could stir up. Anyway, interesting
Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Did you think about that?
Speaker 2: How did you go How did you think about it
Speaker 2: going into that, because that was a big moment, it
Speaker 2: was we've done You're obviously not your first scene with her,
Speaker 2: but it was certainly your first, big.
Speaker 3: Big scene with Rory alone.
Speaker 2: Right, So how did that How did you think about
Speaker 2: going into that seeing the you know, the gravity and
Speaker 2: the weight of that conversation.
Speaker 1: Oh, we knew, I think that we knew. We felt that.
Speaker 1: It's just there, it's in the script, it's in the writing.
Speaker 1: You read it, and you know, right, the trick is
Speaker 1: not to play it. The trick is just to sort
Speaker 1: of feel it and do the lines and not try
Speaker 1: to do too much right from a technical point of view,
Speaker 1: And I love that scene. It's just one of my
Speaker 1: favorite scenes. I really really loved that scene. It was
Speaker 1: very very tender and very very felt, but not too much.
Speaker 1: It's just the situation, this setup is, it's all there
Speaker 1: for you, right, so you just really just have to
Speaker 1: step and say the lines, you know, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: very very very touching, ending, very moving scene.
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting to me the dynamic between
Speaker 2: Rory and Luke, or at least that not paternal, but
Speaker 2: the connection that they had and how it kind of
Speaker 2: ran parallel to the the different connection, not different, but
Speaker 2: the connection between Laura l and her dad in this
Speaker 2: episode two, because that you know, the fact that he
Speaker 2: was seeing her in a different way than he had
Speaker 2: in a while, and the idea that he, you know,
Speaker 2: he liked that she was, how good he wanted her
Speaker 2: to stay on as his assistant, and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2: The it was a in a show that's about moms
Speaker 2: and mom and daughter more than anything. You had two
Speaker 2: story lines in this episode that were very much about
Speaker 2: father and daughter.
Speaker 1: Right yeah. And I think another thing that really encapsulates
Speaker 1: that is, you know, here we have, at the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, the only two people on the planet
Speaker 1: who care about Jess and care about his wellbeing and
Speaker 1: care about his future. That's it. His own mother doesn't
Speaker 1: care about him, laurrel I doesn't care. Everybody hates this
Speaker 1: kid except for Rory. And look and there they are,
Speaker 1: which is also why she's defensive too.
Speaker 2: Just to go back to that, she sees the wounded
Speaker 2: animal and.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's very touching, very very touching. Love that ending.
Speaker 1: Love it all right, So let's get to Richard's new venture,
Speaker 1: his new insurance internettional insurance consulting adventure. He starts a
Speaker 1: new com.
Speaker 2: Scene was also pretty hilarious, having between her and mom
Speaker 2: and you know her mom trying to explain what and
Speaker 2: because no one knows what a consultant does. That's it
Speaker 2: was probably the most accurate scene two.
Speaker 1: And he doesn't know what consult what does he actually do?
Speaker 1: And so he gets in his office and what does
Speaker 1: he do? Consults.
Speaker 2: Obviously, she doesn't know either. She just knows he makes
Speaker 2: money and brings it home.
Speaker 1: Well. His His twenty year secretary, Terry Margie, decides not
Speaker 1: to join Richard's new firm, so he considers not following
Speaker 1: through with the new company.
Speaker 3: She called way lor I call her something Margie? What
Speaker 3: she call her?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh God, now I'm being We're being yelled at by
Speaker 2: people who are listening because they all know exactly what
Speaker 2: she called. When she was younger, she could didn't remember
Speaker 2: who she didn't know who she was. She couldn't remember
Speaker 2: who Marchie was. He'll you know, Oh you mean fat
Speaker 2: Margie or big Margie or whatever.
Speaker 1: I think Emily referred to her as rotund. Okay, but anyway,
Speaker 1: Laura I offers the help out while they find Richard's secretary,
Speaker 1: so Richard doesn't have to quit so soon, So Laura
Speaker 1: I says to this. She arrives at the office, it's
Speaker 1: a mess. She helps Richard by supplies organize the office,
Speaker 1: interviews candidates for the new Margie. She's she's impressing her
Speaker 1: dad here with her her. No, how well, Clay retirements
Speaker 1: didn't last very long for Richard can you relate to
Speaker 1: this feeling, if not of not wanting to slow down?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I'm not that old. Good god, I'm
Speaker 2: getting older, But lord, I know, I do think there's
Speaker 2: certain people who are who are workaholics, and you obviously,
Speaker 2: to be as successful as he has been, he must
Speaker 2: enjoy working, right, So yeah, I mean, it's not a
Speaker 2: surprise that he wants to do something to and he
Speaker 2: needs to stay busy. He also probably you know that
Speaker 2: annoying part. The thing about Laurla that annoys me, she
Speaker 2: gets from her mama, and so I imagine he wants
Speaker 2: to be out of the.
Speaker 1: House, right, all right, So Lurlai steps in to help
Speaker 1: her dad. I find secretary seems very selfless of Laurela,
Speaker 1: and they end up working well.
Speaker 2: Together, especially considering how they treated her, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not well.
Speaker 2: So so so so for her to be that gracious,
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously they they're paying for school, what I mean,
Speaker 2: they're they're no longer estranged.
Speaker 3: But yeah, the.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's nice to see that she is, that
Speaker 2: they're bonding without a required dinner.
Speaker 1: This is really the first time Richard sees his daughter
Speaker 1: as being sort of accomplished and smart and capable and right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I was saying that the father's father
Speaker 2: daughter theme of this episode. It was obviously it wasn't
Speaker 2: that way with with Rory and Luke, but that had
Speaker 2: some of the elements of it, and the father daughter
Speaker 2: theme was strong in this episode.
Speaker 1: Right. It's like daughter appreciation Day for Richard. Right, It's
Speaker 1: like he probably has never felt this way about his daughter.
Speaker 2: Well at least well they've always They always treat her
Speaker 2: like she's stupid and my kid, right, and he's seeing
Speaker 2: her as someone who's able to handle things right, and
Speaker 2: she's like that learning from her.
Speaker 3: In the story when he's yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, Dad, I run an ind I've been
Speaker 1: doing it for years, you know, I mean I run
Speaker 1: a business. I run a fairly large business. Well, it's
Speaker 1: just it's nice to see those moments with those two together.
Speaker 1: Obviously it brought them closer together. You know, obviously how
Speaker 1: much that sticks around is right, It's going to be temporary, Right,
Speaker 1: Something's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: That's the way life is that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Stars Hall of Music Store, Sophie's in there,
Speaker 1: the Great Carol King, So Stars Hall is going to
Speaker 1: open up a new music store, and Lane is very,
Speaker 1: very excited Carol King's debut did it. I think she
Speaker 1: did a great job, you know, she she handled the
Speaker 1: comedic moments beautifully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize that she watching this again, this
Speaker 2: episode again. First of all, I don't even think. I'm
Speaker 2: sure I did clock it when I saw her the
Speaker 2: first time. Obviously I know who Carol King is and
Speaker 2: know her what she looks like, but I.
Speaker 3: Didn't clock how funny she was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first time.
Speaker 2: I mean that second scene when she's trying to close
Speaker 2: up and yeah, her timing's quite good.
Speaker 3: She was believable. There was no acting there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard to come in there as
Speaker 1: a non actor, but an artist, right, you know, a
Speaker 1: very high level of artists, so maybe there's some some experience.
Speaker 1: Who knows, but she seemed like she really knew what
Speaker 1: the heck she was doing. Well, she's been in the
Speaker 1: business longer than all of us, been a lot indeed, right,
Speaker 1: she knows what she's doing, right, I mean, jeez, I
Speaker 1: grew up with her. She was she was a big
Speaker 1: star when I was, you know, growing up in the sixties. Seven.
Speaker 3: She's still got more.
Speaker 2: She's I feel like she's I don't know what the
Speaker 2: record is. She's her Her grandson is my guitar player. Actually,
Speaker 2: but so I think you think i'd be a little
Speaker 2: bit more educated on it. But I feel like she's
Speaker 2: had something like one hundred and one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: hit top ten hits. She's one of the most prolific
Speaker 2: songwriters in American history by far, without question.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I should look it up and see
Speaker 2: if I can sign it.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a lot. Yeah, she's got a Jackie.
Speaker 1: Can you confirm this number?
Speaker 2: Oh no, you don't believe me. I see what it's Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm checking myself too. Well, I've I've got a highley.
Speaker 2: She co wrote one hundred and eighteen songs that were
Speaker 2: in the top twenty I mean top ten. Oh is
Speaker 2: it one hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighteen class I have that have charted?
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1: Listen.
Speaker 2: Still, that's very I mean, but we're talking about and
Speaker 2: the ones that she wrote Natural Woman and well, I
Speaker 2: can't even think what they did that whole I mean,
Speaker 2: the whole musical on Broadway Beautiful. It was about her,
Speaker 2: and it's full of her songs. Up on the roof,
Speaker 2: this soul world stocks getting me down up on the roof,
Speaker 2: she wrote, she wrote songs for other people. You got
Speaker 2: a friend for James Taylor. I mean her stuff is
Speaker 2: the cannon, right. So so coming and doing an acting
Speaker 2: role was she didn't need the money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean really outstanding performance. And you know that's
Speaker 1: tough to do, to come in for a small role
Speaker 1: a scene, you know, a little scene here and there.
Speaker 3: Right with not enough meat, right, you know how to
Speaker 3: do what to do with it.
Speaker 1: But she came back again.
Speaker 2: She's been back a few times, I think she Yeah,
Speaker 2: and she was in the she was in the revival and.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I remember that, Yes she was. She was well,
Speaker 1: you know she she made a deal with Lane, right,
Speaker 1: so she proposed that she practices twice a week at
Speaker 1: the store. In return for working at the store. Lane
Speaker 1: found her longtime passion drumming and the band. We see
Speaker 1: Lane pressure on the drums for the first time. Clayton,
Speaker 1: you remember singing for the first time.
Speaker 3: I don't remember it.
Speaker 2: And my mom said I was doing it when I
Speaker 2: was a kid, when I was eighteen months old. Do
Speaker 2: I remember singing in front of I don't remember singing
Speaker 2: in front of an audience until probably middle school.
Speaker 3: Like that. But I mean, I've been doing it my
Speaker 3: whole life. I don't remember.
Speaker 2: I don't remember discovering it as a passion and the
Speaker 2: way Lane did, all of a sudden out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: pulled out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: And so what was there a moment for you and
Speaker 1: you thought, oh, I'd like to pursue this professional, pursue
Speaker 1: it as a career.
Speaker 2: No, when I when I on the finale of Idol,
Speaker 2: when I was when I was there, I didn't have
Speaker 2: any plans to pursue it as a career until the
Speaker 2: career pursued me. No, I didn't have I guess you know.
Speaker 2: For me, and this is very different than Lane's situation.
Speaker 2: I learned to love it because I discovered I was
Speaker 2: good at it, and I was good at it, so
Speaker 2: I might as well keep doing it.
Speaker 3: Whereas Lane just thinks it looks.
Speaker 2: Fun and so she's gonna she wants to do it well,
Speaker 2: and she's gonna practice and maybe be horrible.
Speaker 1: She didn't she didn't sound like she was too good, right,
Speaker 1: This is so so it was different for me.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think it's the kind of
Speaker 2: thing that she's going to grow out of in a
Speaker 2: few weeks.
Speaker 1: I mean, Lane's Lane is.
Speaker 2: Not psychologically developmentally, Lane is a little developmentally young from
Speaker 2: her age. I think, you know, she she provides some
Speaker 2: of that foil to Rory, because Rory can be so mature,
Speaker 2: and Lane just kind of shows us how mature she is,
Speaker 2: because Lane is is not.
Speaker 1: And she's very she's very childlike.
Speaker 2: So she's going to have that sort of she'll grow
Speaker 2: out of it and she'll be into into planes next week,
Speaker 2: and then the week after that she'll be into something else.
Speaker 2: So she exactly exactly, I don't expect her to stick
Speaker 2: with it, and so but I mean that comic relief
Speaker 2: and it's an important I mean, it's an important.
Speaker 3: Building block to the show.
Speaker 2: Again because you know, some of these things are there too,
Speaker 2: Some of these characters are put in place, and the
Speaker 2: way the storylines are built are kind of built to
Speaker 2: kind of supplement or or build up certain factors about
Speaker 2: other characters.
Speaker 3: Right, So Lane helps us, it helps.
Speaker 2: Foil Rory and shows us how mature is for her age,
Speaker 2: for Candy, for her age.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, you know, that's a various student observation, very
Speaker 1: interesting observations.
Speaker 3: Not just a pretty nice.
Speaker 1: You are stirring the pot, buddy, let me tell you
Speaker 1: I like it all right. Cocktail launch party. Emily throws
Speaker 1: Richard a big launch party and invites all of his
Speaker 1: clients and potential clients and friends to drum up his business.
Speaker 1: He ends up hiring that Karen for his secretary anyway,
Speaker 1: and he is happy to be work scoring deals or
Speaker 1: bagging the suede as they say. And what Emily worries
Speaker 1: cast She blames Lorelai for that accident, and it's like,
Speaker 1: here we go again. We saw it coming a mile away.
Speaker 2: But she she even she she foreshadowed that in the
Speaker 2: beginning of the episode when she was like, how am
Speaker 2: I explain why you had a cast on.
Speaker 3: To her? So, I mean, but that's not That's just
Speaker 3: that's who she is.
Speaker 1: Right, and uh and Rory Laurlai get into a yelling
Speaker 1: match in the hallway outside the office. When Rory expresses
Speaker 1: her frustration with everyone blaming Jess. I mean that got
Speaker 1: very heated. Rory heads home by herself. She wants some
Speaker 1: time alone, right, But of course Emily blames Laura I
Speaker 1: immediately that that's her default position, Emily. You think Emily
Speaker 1: uses moments like this to undermine Laura. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just a constant barrage of sabotage.
Speaker 2: Emily doesn't have anything going for herself, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: and she she reminds me, also, what was that?
Speaker 1: What was the.
Speaker 3: Crap?
Speaker 2: I can't even if it's friends, but was Monica Monica's
Speaker 2: relationship with her mom on friends?
Speaker 3: Right where?
Speaker 1: And that's also I think I've heard.
Speaker 2: I believe it's not uncommon for women and their daughters,
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit of a little bit of competition,
Speaker 2: a little bit of trying to not belittle each other
Speaker 2: all the time, but not wanting to let not wanting
Speaker 2: to admit that their daughter has grown up and is
Speaker 2: perhaps more stable than they are. Right, And Emily's not
Speaker 2: really ever had anything going for her except for being a.
Speaker 1: Rich so so.
Speaker 2: She is she Yeah, she has to belitve Laura because
Speaker 2: I don't think her self esteem is high enough at all.
Speaker 1: Which of course is ironic because you raised her right
Speaker 1: and in a sense broke her, and Laurel has been
Speaker 1: putting the pieces back together ever since. So Laurel, I
Speaker 1: screams at her daughter. When my daughter comes home broken,
Speaker 1: I get to hate the guy who broke her. That's
Speaker 1: how it works. He's gone.
Speaker 3: I win.
Speaker 1: Claiy, do you agree with that? Yes, parenting style, that's
Speaker 1: a tough love kind of a situation where it's like.
Speaker 3: Hey, tough lover.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not doesn't go over well in my
Speaker 2: house always. But but yeah, I totally she's right.
Speaker 3: She was actually.
Speaker 2: Generous to Rory a little bit too, because she blames
Speaker 2: it all on Jess and it's not all Jess's fault.
Speaker 2: Rory's right about that, so she's being extra generous to
Speaker 2: take all of her anger and hate out on him.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I think she has every right
Speaker 2: to be angry, and she has every right to be
Speaker 2: certainly skeptical about what Jess may turn not turn her
Speaker 2: daughter into, but the influence that he has he could
Speaker 2: have on her.
Speaker 3: So I don't blame her for that.
Speaker 2: And this is this has come from somebody who gets
Speaker 2: annoyed by her a lot.
Speaker 3: So I thought she was in the right there.
Speaker 1: Right because you know, this is a kid, love or
Speaker 1: hate him, who can destroy Rory's life. There could be
Speaker 1: you know, she's having forbacks to her own teenage years
Speaker 1: when she got pregnant, and she's seeing Jess as the
Speaker 1: same animal, right, like, oh, this is not going to
Speaker 1: happen to my daughter. You know. The apple has fallen
Speaker 1: not very far from the tree on this.
Speaker 2: One, which makes you wonder now, to go back to Emily,
Speaker 2: how much she history repeats itself, right, And even as
Speaker 2: I am forty something years old, I think about, oh God,
Speaker 2: I'm doing exactly what my mother would have done.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 2: How much in common Emily might have with that too,
Speaker 2: Like were there things in Emily's past that she doesn't
Speaker 2: want Laura to repeat, you know, being useless for example.
Speaker 2: She doesn't want Laura to be useless like she is,
Speaker 2: and so she is much tougher on her. She caviously
Speaker 2: takes it out in a different way than Laura I
Speaker 2: does with Rory. But there's no doubt Emily loves her daughter,
Speaker 2: just doesn't know how to show it right. And they're
Speaker 2: probably your commonalities there. I mean, they're both they're both
Speaker 2: trying to defend and protect their kids. They're just doing
Speaker 2: it in very different ways. Laurel I's been through things
Speaker 2: that maybe Emily didn't go through, and so she I
Speaker 2: didn't even think about the fact that she was thinking
Speaker 2: about getting pregnant at the same age and wanting to
Speaker 2: make sure the same thing didn't happen to her daughter.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well, I think that's primarily the fear, and
Speaker 1: even beyond getting pregnant. Is you know this guy, he's explosive,
Speaker 1: he's unpredictable, you know, but he's hot, so it's okay, dangerous,
Speaker 1: I guess. So that's why I didn't dislike him. You know,
Speaker 1: just just put on a wife beater and chop would
Speaker 1: and you're good. You know, there you go, just go
Speaker 1: over there and do that. That's what I do. That's
Speaker 1: always how I do it. You know, this final scene,
Speaker 1: we've discussed this a little bit, you know, in Luke's response,
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't his fault. It's a simple. But
Speaker 1: yet that's the economy of this writing is beautiful. It's
Speaker 1: it's a very emotional statement. And why do you think
Speaker 1: it's important for Rory to too Rory, for Luke to
Speaker 1: know jess As not to blame. Why is that? Well?
Speaker 2: Because they because Luke's the only other person who cares
Speaker 2: about him, right, and she doesn't want her, she doesn't
Speaker 2: want him to believe something bad and then have nobody
Speaker 2: care for him. So, I mean, that's that seems somewhat obvious.
Speaker 2: She I think she also wanted validation a little bit too.
Speaker 2: She she wanted to get him. She needed somebody on
Speaker 2: her side to go against the mob, right, and she
Speaker 2: probably recognized that he would be a safe place because
Speaker 2: he has an affinity for Luke too's I mean for
Speaker 2: you know also so he uh, she she.
Speaker 3: Knew was a safe place to be there.
Speaker 2: And like I said, it was just an opportunity for
Speaker 2: them to bond over something they had in common.
Speaker 1: To mm hmm.
Speaker 3: You want people on your side, you want someone on
Speaker 3: your chain.
Speaker 1: Right right, right, But it sets up all of this
Speaker 1: potential conflict with Lorelei and everybody else in the town
Speaker 1: because now these two are aligned. They feel we see
Speaker 1: they feel the same way, and as you so aptly
Speaker 1: put it there, maybe they're going to go up against
Speaker 1: the mob in a sense, and I have kind of
Speaker 1: interested kind of drama.
Speaker 3: Then you won't have a TV show.
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go, beautiful setup. Right, We
Speaker 1: got some some questions for you, sir. Uh all right,
Speaker 1: here we go. Uh, if you could choose one of
Speaker 1: your songs to be the Gilmore Girls theme song. Which
Speaker 1: one would you choose? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't have very many songs of my own,
Speaker 2: so let me think of what would be appropriate. I
Speaker 2: had a song called I Survived You, which I think
Speaker 2: would be pretty appropriate for it. It's about it's about
Speaker 2: surviving a very difficult relationship and persevering after it. And
Speaker 2: I think every character in the show at some point
Speaker 2: had to survive something and became stronger because of it.
Speaker 2: So I think it would be appropriate for the for
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 1: M hm. Okay. So, as you have stated, you started
Speaker 1: your singing career, or you start singing at very young age,
Speaker 1: when you started to grow as a singer, what was
Speaker 1: that adjustment like when your voice started to change?
Speaker 3: It never did?
Speaker 2: Oh is that right? Well, I mean obviously it changed some,
Speaker 2: but I definitely definitely still sound like a girl. I
Speaker 2: didn't have to worry about that. It didn't bother me
Speaker 2: because I think one I.
Speaker 1: Was always told.
Speaker 3: First of all, it didn't change much.
Speaker 2: I was an alto when I I was in fifth grade,
Speaker 2: and I could be an alto today if I had to.
Speaker 2: They call us countertenors now. So my voice didn't make
Speaker 2: too much of a change. Unlike my son, he went
Speaker 2: from sounding like this, don't look now he Mine didn't
Speaker 2: change any Plus, since I sang steadily through that pubescent
Speaker 2: period and I was doing I mean singing every day
Speaker 2: in school and a part of choirs and doing stuff
Speaker 2: after school, I've been told that because of that, you
Speaker 2: kids whose voices are used a lot and they sing
Speaker 2: a lot, their voices don't crack as much. On the
Speaker 2: other hand, today haven't sung in quite a while, so
Speaker 2: today I sound like I'm going through puberty, but I
Speaker 2: didn't crack when I was in middle school.
Speaker 1: Is there a Gilmore girl's character you relate to the most?
Speaker 2: Well, I probably should say I relate to Lauraai the most,
Speaker 2: even though she annoys me, and maybe she does annoy
Speaker 2: me because she's she's She's definitely the wittiest one, right,
Speaker 2: Not that I'm complimenting myself and saying that I'm the wittiest,
Speaker 2: but god, now, I've never thought about this, so I'm
Speaker 2: having to think about it now and therefore not doing
Speaker 2: as deep a dive as I could.
Speaker 3: But probably mean it probably would be.
Speaker 2: Her because she does like to be she does like
Speaker 2: to be the center of attentional and I can't say
Speaker 2: that I don't and I think that I think that
Speaker 2: she's probably a lot. I mean, she's definitely a lot
Speaker 2: more vulnerable than she wants to appear.
Speaker 3: To people.
Speaker 2: So I mean I would go I could go with her, probably.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I'm as clumsy and clueless as
Speaker 2: Suki as but I I'm gonna go with Laura La
Speaker 2: for now.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay. And you, as you mentioned, you have
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old son seventeen now, he just turns
Speaker 1: seventeen years seventeen. Wow, Yeah, what are some of the
Speaker 1: values that you're hoping to pass down to him.
Speaker 2: I mean i'd say that I say that as we
Speaker 2: as we were in this period where dads and their
Speaker 2: kids do the same thing. I think that I was
Speaker 2: saying good women and their daughters do. I mean, I
Speaker 2: do think a strong work ethic, being willing to sweat
Speaker 2: and be sore at the end of the day. You know,
Speaker 2: I had to do that as a kid, and I
Speaker 2: stumbled into a career where I don't as much and
Speaker 2: as a result, don't have.
Speaker 3: To make him as much.
Speaker 2: So I hope to kind of push him to be
Speaker 2: uncomfortable sometimes. I think it's important for all of us,
Speaker 2: and I think sometimes we've gotten especially as with some
Speaker 2: of the younger generations. Now I'm going to really get
Speaker 2: people pissed to me where we try to make life
Speaker 2: as easy and pleasant for them as possible, which obviously
Speaker 2: you want to do for your kids, right, But then
Speaker 2: when you get in the real world and things aren't
Speaker 2: easy and pleasant, you don't know how to deal with it,
Speaker 2: you don't know how to cope with it, you don't
Speaker 2: have the coping skills necessary. And so I think that
Speaker 2: being uncomfortable helps us create, helps us create the coping
Speaker 2: skills we need to be successful in every situation. So
Speaker 2: I kind of I mean, I do hope at times
Speaker 2: he's uncomfortable and can be more a better problem solver
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Reason, right, right, are you team Jess or team Dean?
Speaker 2: I'm probably team Dean, but that again, that's only because
Speaker 2: I think Jared's cute. I mean, listen, listen, I would't
Speaker 2: tick either one. I'm out of bed, all right, So.
Speaker 1: Who do you side with in this episode? Laura I
Speaker 1: or Luke in this episode?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean cannot considering the context from other ones,
Speaker 2: I would side with Laura, I because she is just
Speaker 2: trying to defend her kid, right, And you have to
Speaker 2: understand the motivation for someone who's just trying to defend
Speaker 2: their kid. If you take into account, you know, the
Speaker 2: other factors, like at the very least, I mean, the
Speaker 2: fact that Jess's background and how he's sort of treated poorly,
Speaker 2: then you obviously start seeing Luke's positions more clearly, Right,
Speaker 2: So I could side with him. But if I'm just
Speaker 2: looking at this episode just understanding that there's been an
Speaker 2: accident and my kid's hurt and it's a kid who
Speaker 2: and it was with a kid who has a reputation
Speaker 2: for or and you got a side with Laura, you
Speaker 2: see where she's coming from. But I think we see
Speaker 2: later on more facets to the story. And we saw
Speaker 2: a little bit before before and after this episode, we
Speaker 2: see more. And I would probably be personally inclined to
Speaker 2: be on Luke's side because I like to try to
Speaker 2: be more empathetic that way. But you can't blame them
Speaker 2: parent for being selfish for their kid to defend their kid.
Speaker 1: No, No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Especially given that she doesn't know everything that she wont
Speaker 2: you know, at some point might.
Speaker 1: Right, any plans to tour anytime soon, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get it back out.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I stopped.
Speaker 2: I stopped performing for years and just have gotten back
Speaker 2: into it a little bit. So my kid's old enough
Speaker 2: now that he wants me to leave as much as possible,
Speaker 2: and he and and he doesn't need supervision all the time.
Speaker 2: So I've I'm getting back into performing and doing stuff,
Speaker 2: and I do plan on doing some shows. I don't
Speaker 2: know if there'll be a tour in the next six months,
Speaker 2: but there's going to be music and new music.
Speaker 3: That's the plan.
Speaker 2: Which is which is a new thing for me because
Speaker 2: I haven't done that in fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's going to be exciting for your fans. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Good luck with everything, and hope to see you back
Speaker 1: out there on the road doing your thing and making
Speaker 1: people happy. Klay Can thank you for your time, much appreciated.
Speaker 1: Thank you best fans on the planet. And remember I'm
Speaker 1: going to be in Brighton, Michigan at a Gilmour fan
Speaker 1: fest on September Gosh, twenty is it gonna be twenty ninety?
Speaker 1: That weekend Friday and Saturday of that weekend September twentieth,
Speaker 1: can't wait to see everybody out there. It's Lorgie Margie.
Speaker 3: That's what she.
Speaker 1: Calls large marchi margin. That's right. She will. She will
Speaker 1: not largelye Margie will not be in Brighton, but I will, yes,
Speaker 1: exactly see now came to you and my thanks to
Speaker 1: our special guest Klay Aiken, the one and only. And
Speaker 1: remember where you lead, we will follow all the best everyone,
Speaker 1: Stay safe, everybody, and don't forget. Follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at I Am all In podcast and email us at
Speaker 1: Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com