1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to make it Happen Here a podcast about things 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: falling apart and then maybe kind of putting them back 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: together again sort of. Uh, this this this is this 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: is a special episode about the thing that happened. Where 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: a thing that happened is the Brazilian election. And with 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: me to talk about this is Garrison Hello and James Hello. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: So I think I think people probably know by now 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Louis Nacio Lula is Silva, better known as Lula, has 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: defeated JR. Bosonaro in a absolutely terrifying squeaker of a 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: presidential election. Um. This is like, by far the closest 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: election that Lula there is, a former two term president 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: of Brazil, has ever won. Um. Part of this is 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: a campaign of last minute voter suppression that Bolsonaro own 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: his supporters did where like like basically like the Brazilian 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: federal police started setting up like they set up like 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: fifty roadblocks to stop people in the little strongholds from voting. 17 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: There's like the assaulted people. Um it wound up not 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: mattering and right now, as as a time of recording, 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: which is uh one pm, one third pm Pacific. On Halloween, 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: Bolsonaro was missing in action. There's no like, no one's 21 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: seen him. The only the only thing, the only sign 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: of life that there has been from him is he 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: unfollowed his wife. Amazing stuff. It's it sounds like he 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: just locked himself in the presidential palace and turn and 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: turn all all of the lights off. Yeah, he's she's 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: missing and no nobody's seen or heard from him. Um. 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: So by the time this episode comes out, there's like 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: a small chance there's been a coup. There's like a 29 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: small chance he's died from COVID. I don't know, probably 30 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: neither of those have happened. But you know, so Lula 31 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: won his election like he won like like fifty point 32 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: eight percent of the vote roughly. And okay, so there's 33 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: a lot of voter suppression. But even voters suppression cannot 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: explain why Lula, who won his last elections with respectively 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: sixty one and sixty percent of the vote, was reduced 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: to like fifty point eight percent this time. And okay, 37 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: so that this begs two questions, who is Luis sa 38 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Nacia Lula da Silva and how did we get to 39 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: this election? So the first episode of this is going 40 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: to be answering The first question, and the second episode 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: is largely the second question. Okay, so who who actually 42 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: is Lula? Lula is born in actually his birthday is 43 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: a few days ago UM to a desperately poor family 44 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: in Brazil's northeast Um and this family moves from the 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: northeast to what became known as the a PC region 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: of Brazil, which is to Andre su Bernard sent sorry 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: Santo Andre sal Bernard, who who can't say names of Brazil? 48 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: Now this this is not a famous name. This is 49 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: sal Bernardo. Wait are you conflating Brazil and Argentina, which 50 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: are famously not the same country, different languages. The thing, 51 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: if this wasn't Spanish, I could do this and I'm 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: gonna make it. I can make this claim here. All 53 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: my pronunciations to this are based on my terrible knowledge 54 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: of Spanish. The problem is Brazil famously speaks Portuguese, a 55 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: language that is not Spanish. So yeah, but okay, so 56 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: there there's there's things of the ABC region, because there's 57 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: three cities there that are abc UM. As part of 58 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: this sort of mass migration, which is is popularly remembered 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: as like this mass migration of people from the northeast 60 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: to sub Hollo, but the sort of the actually that 61 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: that that's a popular memory of the actualities that millions 62 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: of people flow into sub Hollo, like from all across Brazil. Um, 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: the ABC region becomes the Brazil sort of industrial heartland. 64 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Like every story you read about this, we'll call it 65 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: like Brazil's Detroit. And that's kind of true and kind 66 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: of not true. Like I don't know, every everyone who 67 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: writes about Brazil is like, how can we make this 68 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: the US? And like god, Fibida out of countries have 69 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: their own realities. Yeah, and like okay, like there is 70 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: an extent to which Brazil is also like the ex 71 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: slave colony thing right, but no, like Brazil bizil is 72 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: its own country. Um, however, come up. The ABC region 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: becomes the core of Brazil's massive metalworking industry. Um. In 74 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: this industry is just like from the fifties of the eighties, 75 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: just like purely expanding. Um. The historian J. D. French 76 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: knows that the ABC's population increased by eight from the 77 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: so Lulu rives in the middle of a veritable industrial revolution. Um, 78 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: this is going to end in one of history sort 79 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: of great built industrial working classes. But he's there, that's 80 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of not what's happening or the other thing, as 81 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: you mentioned about this region is that when I say 82 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: metal working, so there's a the reason there's so many 83 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: Detroit comparisons is that this is this is a reason 84 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: that is massively involved in Brazil's auto industry, which in 85 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: this period is expanding. It is very large. Um. I 86 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: think I think I've actually talked about this in the 87 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: Neoliberalism episodes. Um a little bit. But yeah, so Lula 88 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: like leaves school in fifth grade to basically find whatever 89 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: work he can in the street. And this is another 90 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: sort of very famous thing that everyone talks about about 91 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 1: Lula Alkio, Like he has like a grade school education, 92 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: and that's like sort of true, Like it is true 93 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: that he never like like graduate, like you know, he 94 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: never went to school past like fifth grade. Mostly. I 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: thought we'll get to some other stuff that he did later. Um. 96 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: What happens basically is that his his mom is able 97 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: to get him into this this metal this this government 98 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: metal working sort of apprenticeship program that is teaching like 99 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: young people how to do how to basically become skilled 100 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: metal workers. And this also is an education, right like 101 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, the people people in this there's there's a 102 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: lot of very interesting sort of like theory stuff about 103 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: this about how these people like are are also kind 104 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: of worker intellectuals, because in order to like be a 105 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: metal worker and to do all this stuff, you have 106 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: to know a ship ton of stuff. You have to know. 107 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: You have to know a bunch of typtical stuff about 108 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: how metal works. You have to know that. You know, 109 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: it's it's very highly skilled, very high like degree of 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: knowledge you have to have. So you know, he he 111 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: gets this kind of education, Um, and he becomes a 112 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: very very good metal worker, and he's he's part of 113 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: a a like a highly skilled and the academic literature 114 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: will call it highly paid, although like, okay, this is 115 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: highly paid compared to like someone like someone who is 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: a worker, but who's not like a metal work like 117 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: one of the sort of skilled quote unquote metal workers. Um, 118 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: they're not like these people aren't like lawyers right like 119 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: they're they're they're so closer to the actual sort of 120 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: working class than you know, so some almost like people 121 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: who are sort of like auxiliary parts of the ruling class. 122 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: And he enters, you know, he enders the sort of 123 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: manufacturing boom as part of what's called the Brazilian miracle. Well, okay, 124 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: so he he's there a bit before the sort of 125 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: Brazilian miracle starts. But there's this period u of the 126 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: militaryed kattership wh sake power where they kind of like 127 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: luck into a functioning economy. Although I should I should 128 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: mention this now, um okay, So in this period in Brazil, 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: like inflation being good and under control is inflation is 130 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: like when inflations everything is considered fine and when it 131 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: goes up from it's like, oh no, we've lost control 132 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: of inflation. And this this kind of like this is 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: a survivable thing because people's wages are short of indexed 134 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: to um like that their index to constant living increases 135 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: to some extent, which is the thing that like, yeah, 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: it would never happen here. Yeah, well, I mean, I 137 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: guess if if you do the kind of stuff these 138 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: guys do, you can probably get some of this. But yeah, so, 139 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: but the sort of interesting thing about what's happening here 140 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: is you have a very large industrial working class, but 141 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: it's not really very militant for most of the time 142 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: Lula's in it, except for sort of right around the 143 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: military like Kuive, Lulas sees some of kind of like 144 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: the old radicalism like he he talks about like you know, 145 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: like watching people like storming factories because they're on strike. Uh, 146 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: the Brazilian working class does. There's a lot of fun 147 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: stuff that they do. Like they do things like, okay, 148 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: so that everyone will show up to a protest with 149 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: like a bunch of like pockets full of marbles, and 150 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: when when a calvary recharge starts, still just roll the 151 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: all rolling marbles down the street and the person fall. 152 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: It's an o G Battle of Cable Street. Yeah. Yeah, 153 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: my my absolute favorite one. This is just like like 154 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: pure looty tune ship. Um. They do this thing where okay, 155 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: so they'll string piano wire up like between light posts 156 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: and then they'll bait cavalry units and the charging at 157 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: them and then the thing and the guys will just 158 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: get sucking close. Look that's so good. Yeah, that's pretty great. 159 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: Horse cups You didn't in America but no, no, no, no, 160 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: well they you see them sometimes, like I have seen 161 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: some horse cops. Portland's horse cops only like stop existing 162 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. In the UK until 163 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 1: very recently they used them to police protest. Yeah. Yeah, 164 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: there was fwenty of people getting run over by horses 165 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: in the States. Yeah, yeah, they do this. Yeah, fucking 166 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: sucks there. Actually, okay, I think the most famous police 167 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: horse you latest story in the US is a Philly 168 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: sports fan. I think it like en punching a police horse. 169 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: What a city. Yeah, the most famous British police horse 170 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: thing is that the horse humping the cop. Critical support 171 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: to the Yeah, it's quickly copy the image into the 172 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: chat so you can all enjoy it. I'm okay, I'm 173 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: glad that we've taken this episode in this direction. My 174 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: holy sh it, that oh my god. Okay, it was graphic. 175 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: Do you know what else will take a cop and 176 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: bend it over and nope? Alright, well promise that Garrison. 177 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: Here's some advertisements, and we're back with other things. That 178 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: old scar bite soul forever boy. Up until sort of there, 179 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: there has been a kind of left wing government in 180 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: Brazil and then the military q like just overthrowst it, 181 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: and the left is kind of just like annihilated from this. 182 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: And it's not just from the pure political repression which 183 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: forces like like all of the communist parties are forced 184 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: underground like um, but one of the one of the things. 185 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: Like one of the real things that sort of like 186 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: really shatters the Brazilian left is that, like the coup 187 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: happens and the left, you know, the left sort of 188 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: noses a cue coming, right, but they expect that when 189 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: the coup happens, there's going to be strikes and like 190 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: the working class is gonna fight them and they're gonna 191 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: beat it, and everyone kind of just like in the 192 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: factories kind of just shrugs and nothing happens, and they 193 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: just get rolled over. And this is the start of 194 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: this period of sort of like you know, this kind 195 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: of like the workers movement, like nothing is happening in 196 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: there's some sort of radical student groups trying to do stuff, 197 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: but like I know, there's a Brazilian version of sixty eight, 198 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: but mostly what happens there was like one factory gets 199 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: occupied and then the army shows up with guns and 200 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: they get owned and it's really grim, and you know 201 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: you have these sort of like like tiny like actually okay, 202 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: you're these tiny catholic maoist groups who these mauist student groups. 203 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, we just right through that. It's 204 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: it's nuts um normal, totally normal. Yeah yeah. And then 205 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: you know they're trying who trying to do like drill 206 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: in certainty stuff, and the army just sort of like 207 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: kills them all. Um, they're horribly destroyed. So for almost 208 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: a decade and a half, like you have a very 209 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: deep politicized industrial politaria. And and and Lula's part of this, 210 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: right like from from from like when he enters the 211 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: workforce ntil like the late seventies, he is not political 212 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: at all. Are they doing the thing under the dictatorship 213 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: where they have like pet unions? I guess when it's 214 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: like one man day ted union for the industry. Actually, 215 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: I was about to talk about this, um. Yeah, so 216 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: the Brazilian libor system and the thing is, so this 217 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: wasn't set up under this military stipetatorship. It was kind 218 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: of set up under like a previous one. But this, yeah, 219 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: it's still sort of a thing. All of the unions 220 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: have to register with the state. And when they're doing 221 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: contract negotiations, right, they're not negotiating with the corporations to 222 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: negotiating with the state. And so this means that like 223 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: the state is setting wage Rage's gonna become important later. 224 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a really interesting sort of problem here 225 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: because there's this entire class of basically sort of like 226 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: government union guy who's like basically a bureaucrat, and it's 227 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: like really corrupt, and yeah, well and and this is 228 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: something like and like like a lot of people just 229 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: hate them because like that, like you know, because because 230 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: they like literally what these people are are, like they're 231 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: a guy who's doing this job to get ahead, and 232 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: then their job is to sort of like like you know, 233 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: technically it's like mediate the class struggle, right, but like 234 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: what that actually means is like make sure that like 235 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: there isn't actually sort of like like make sure the 236 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: union isn't actually sort of a source of class conflict. 237 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: And then this, this is this is the whole sort 238 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: of thing behind this because before like still had this 239 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: really really built and like labor movement, they had a 240 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: bunch of anarchists, like the anarchistractor over the government a 241 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: couple of times, maybe he's huge general strikes. There's the 242 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: communist parties like a real thing. And then the government 243 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: tries to bring all of like you know, okay, we're 244 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: gonna bring all the unions under our control. And it's 245 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: still also true that these are like they're still technically unions, 246 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: So there are people who are sort of doing union 247 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: organizing in them, right, like they still do some regular 248 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: union stuff. And yeah, we're gonna talk about this a 249 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: bit more later, but there's I don't know, these unions 250 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: are fucking weird, like they're not like unions anywhere else 251 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: have ever seen. Yeah, but so okay, So the other thing, 252 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: like lu Lula in this point, like it's a political 253 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: right people, people keep trying to talk to him about politics, 254 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: and he's like, I just want to play soccer and 255 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: light chase girls. And he talks about this like changing 256 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: like it speeches a lot. But his brother, who's known 257 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: as Frey Chico, is a Brazilian Communist Party buility for 258 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: like his entire life and being being a PCB militant 259 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: in like the cities and seventies, this is like life threatening. 260 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: The party is outlawed. Everyone is so clandestine that like 261 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: Fried Chico's own wife doesn't know that he's a communist 262 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: and finds out that he's a communist when he gets arrested, 263 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: Like it's it's this, this is this, this is like 264 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: this is like the level of like clandestine shit that 265 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: everyone that that that like, you know, the sort of 266 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: communist parties that are working on under here um. But 267 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: Freschico is also like an open union activists and everyone 268 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: knows he's like he's a leftist basically because you know, 269 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: the even even the sort of like the unions are 270 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: sort of like split between like there's sort of left 271 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: factions that are like trying to actually do union stuff, 272 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: but like for towards sort of leftist goals. There are 273 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: like more moderate people who are like bread and butter 274 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: trade unionists, and then there's also just like a bunch 275 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: of people who are like just the corruption faction. Um. 276 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, like Lula doesn't like Lula like doesn't care 277 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: about the union at all, Like he's not even in 278 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: the union until Free Chico, like his brother just like 279 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: like literally just drags him, kicking and screaming into running 280 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: for an elected position in the union because I like 281 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: he needed a guy to run on a slate, but 282 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: he couldn't run himself because everyone knew he was a leftist. 283 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: So he was like, Okay, I'm gonna your brother, you run. 284 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: You're you're you're not like openly a leftist. You can 285 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: actually win this and this is you know, and then 286 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: this works and he gets elected, and this is where 287 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: Lula like learns politics. Um from the book Lula and 288 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: His Politics of Cunning quote. Lulu would have to master 289 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: the mundane aspects of union life, including bureaucratic routines, budgets, services, 290 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: and preparing union assemblies. Lula would also undergo a gradual 291 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: politicization through relationships with fellow directors, union lawyers and staff, 292 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: and activists central to the union's turbulent internal politics. Finally, 293 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: Lula would need to learn about the repressive dimension of 294 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: working class life unto military rule, including close supervision and 295 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: surveillance by police, employers and labor ministry officials. And what's 296 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: interesting about this story is like every one around him 297 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: when he joins this union, including basically he's boss and 298 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: the unions a guy named Vidal who's a very powerful 299 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: union leader, um, like you know, his brother to like 300 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: everyone thinks he's going to be this sort of like 301 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: compliance like obedient fingerhead. And instead what they have done 302 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: is they have created arguably the greatest politician of the 303 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: twenty first century. Um. What are the things that's important 304 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: to note here is that like, okay, so like the 305 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: unions are are like fucked up, right, and everyone kind 306 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: of says they're sucked up. These are still probably the 307 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: most like, like, these are probably still the most competitive 308 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: democratic collections that are happening in Brazil. Like Brazil technically 309 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: has elections that there's these sort of like two official parties. 310 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: So okay, so it's kind of weird that the military 311 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: like is in power, but like they have this sort 312 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: of veneer that they're not and theydeically they technically sometimes 313 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: have a civilian president. They have these sort of like 314 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: parties that are kind of real. But you know, the 315 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: the Union actually has like there are like leftist slates, 316 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: there are conservative slaves. Like there there's actually sort of 317 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: politics going on, and Lula is actually able to sort 318 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: of like make his mark through through his abilities just 319 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: like make friends with people on both the sort of 320 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: like radical and moderate side of the Union um Union 321 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: sort of political aisle. And this is because Lula, like 322 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: Lula is just it's funny. He loves playing soccer, he 323 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: loves just like dancing and hanging out. And this lets 324 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: him like win his election slate like pretty easily, because 325 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 1: you know, she's she's just she's just very popular. So 326 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: these are things that like I don't know, like the 327 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: other workers in the factory a lot of times don't 328 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: care that much about union politics, but they do care 329 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: about like that you care about soccer a lot. And 330 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: so Lula was able to build a bunch of support 331 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: and this lets him sort of easily take a position 332 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: in a union system that, like I it's basically a 333 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: miniature state. Like the unions have their own welfare programs, 334 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: they have they have their own education system, and you know, 335 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: this is part of the thing that people talking about. 336 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: Lula is like completely uneducated. Like no, it's not like 337 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: he spends a bunch of time like in classes that 338 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: like the the the union like puts on basically like 339 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: university and academic classes right for for its workers and 340 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: for other people short affiliated with him. So he spends 341 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: a bunch and this is like, you know, part of 342 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: where he'd learned sort of politics and where he larned 343 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: political economy is like is through the through these classes 344 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: the union has and he sorry, the union also like 345 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: you know I talked about like they run welfare programs, right, 346 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: So he's like he's like a social worker, right, trying 347 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: trying to sort of like help workers and pensioners with 348 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: his job he gets this position that like everyone hates, 349 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: like he has this position basically like running running there 350 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: sort of like like welfare program and like nobody wants it, 351 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: but he like does it and he doesn't really well. 352 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: And this makes him really popular because he's the guy that, like, 353 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, if you're like a pensioner, right, like he's 354 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: the guy you go to you to figure out pension bullshit, 355 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: and he's the guy you just go to in order 356 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: to sort of get stuff done. And yeah, you know, 357 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: this means he's spending a bunch of time doing paperwork 358 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: and like negotiating with government bureaucracy. And he this makes 359 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: him a very very effective politician. Ums from lueless politics 360 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: and cutting again, but Lula also gained access to an 361 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: even larger constituency. At the union headquarters, a working class 362 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: public sphere. Do you know how many people passed by 363 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: the union daily? He asked a journalist in ninety nine, 364 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: at minimum fift hundred. Those frequenting the union did so 365 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: for many reasons, often for various sorts of assistance or sistencia, 366 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: which I think is yeah, like government union assistant stuff, 367 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: but also to complain about work, shoot the breeze or 368 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: catch up with friends. Some union directors often arrived late 369 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: to the headquarters and we're always busy when they did. 370 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: The gregarious Lula, by contrast, maintained an open door policy 371 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: and his office became a gathering point for rank and 372 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: file workers, factory activists, and fellow directors still linked to production. 373 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: And this is everything that's sort of important about this 374 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: is that like, okay, like once you reach like a 375 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: certain position in the union, like you're just a full 376 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: time a union guy. And so there's a lot of 377 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: people who like join the union and become like union 378 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: people because it means like it takes you off the 379 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: shop floor. And this you know, the government does as 380 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: deliberately right, because it means, you know, you create your 381 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're. The thing they're trying to do 382 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: is create a certain democratic mayora between the working class 383 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and like their union. But Lula's like still really connected 384 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: to what's going on the shot floor because he's just 385 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: like talking to everyone all the time. And the product 386 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: of this is that Lula is becomes a very very 387 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,239 Speaker 1: like he comes to trade union leader, becomes a very 388 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: very powerful one. He who rapidly becomes the president of 389 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: his union after some like Vidal, who's like his boss 390 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: had there's this whole thing where he's trying to stay 391 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: in power, but he doesn't run for president of the 392 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: union because of some complicated political maneuvering, and so Lula 393 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: ends up as the head of the union. Fadells like, 394 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: it's fine, I'm still going to be a control here. 395 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: And that's not what happens. You You you have just 396 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: you have just given the presidency to like like a 397 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: a a genuinely truly singular like political figure. Um. But 398 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: but there's not There's something that's very very important about 399 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: Lula that you need to understand. You figure to like 400 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: to understand anything that's about to happen here, and basically 401 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: says Lula is not a communist. This this is this 402 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: is very important. Um. He could not have done what 403 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: he's about to do, which is, you know, become literally 404 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: like the living symbol of one of the largest strike 405 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: waves in Brazilian history. He could not have done this 406 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: if he was a communist. The military, if he was 407 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: a communist military would have you know, tortured and possibly 408 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: executed him like they done with thousands of other communists. 409 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: His brother Frey Chico was kidnapped and tortured horribly by 410 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: the military, although he like he will insist that he 411 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: didn't have it as bad as like a lot of 412 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: other people did, which is true, but also like they 413 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: tortured the ship out of him, and it was fucking horrific. 414 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: And the fact that like every single person like and 415 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: the fact that every single fucking member of the military 416 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: dictatorship was not fucking like taken out behind a shocking 417 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: shed shot and had their like corpses fed to dogs 418 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 1: is like genuinely one of the reasons why we're here 419 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: right now. The stuff is awful. It is a theme 420 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: of the podcast. Yeah, yeah, but what to do with 421 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: dictated you know, and Lula Lula and she's wife eventually 422 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: able to sort of get him released because he's not 423 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: like a very high like he's in the PCB, like 424 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: he's in the Communist Party, like his brother like, but 425 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: he's not like a high ranking guy. And you know, 426 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: the sort of cruel irony of it is like they 427 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: knew that he didn't know anything that they didn't already know, 428 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: but they just tortured to share to him. Anyways. Um, 429 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: but one of the important things that happens here is 430 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: his brother, like under torture, like insists that Lula is 431 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: not a communist, and like continues to insist this because 432 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: he isn't and you know, and like people who are 433 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: like that and and and people in the military careship 434 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: like believe this, right because like the like they're you know, 435 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: they have a really extensive sort of intelligence network, like 436 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: at this point that they've basically like they've they've basically 437 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: destroyed the Brazilian Communist Party and they've like captured and 438 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: killed most of her cadre. And because he's not a communist, 439 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: Lula is able to stay in the labor movement, even 440 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: if in the short term after his brother gets the 441 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: rest of he loses his job in the union, because 442 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: and he's able to do this because like beyond his brother, 443 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: who like his brother has literally been like saying communist 444 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: stuff at him for decades and he Lul has just 445 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: been like, I don't care um, and like a couple 446 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: of other people who's just quite kind of friends with 447 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: like Lula like has no connection to the organized left, 448 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: like he's he's not sort of like like he he's 449 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: not like a leftist right like in in that sort 450 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: of conventional sense like he's he's not tied to one 451 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: of sort of the old left political factions, and this 452 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: means that he can stand in as a kind of 453 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: sort of labor leader that the more moderate fashions than 454 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: military dictatorship have been looking for, which is this sort 455 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: of like non communist like quote unquote genuine trade unionist. 456 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: And Okay, so like talking about like a moderate faction 457 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: of a military dictatorship is always kind of fraud because 458 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's a military tattership, but like, like all 459 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: these people suck. It's also true that there were there 460 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: were factions within the military dictatorship who so there's a 461 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: fashion called like the dungeon, which is like the people 462 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: torturing all these people to death. There were other people 463 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: in the enty tatorship who are like this is really 464 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: fucking ghost, Like why are you guys doing this? Like 465 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: this makes us look bad? Also why are you torturing 466 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: these people? And those guys look at Lula and they 467 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: they're they're willing to work with him because like what 468 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: what what they think they're doing is creating this sort 469 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: of like authentic non communist labor movement that will like 470 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: work with them the stop communism like sort of like 471 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the a fl CIA like specifically talking about this like 472 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: in the in the way that the a f l 473 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: C i OH does in the US work working is 474 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: in the communist force. They they think that they can 475 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: get Lula to do this, and Lula does a lot 476 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: of stuff that like looks like collaboration to the sort 477 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: of like surviving leftists around him. He develops like literally 478 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: like personal relationships kind of friendship. It's not really friendships, 479 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: but like the personal relationships and professional relationships members of 480 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: the regime. And you know, again, it like it looks 481 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: like he's collaborating, but that's not that's's that's not what's 482 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: actually happening. What's actually happening is that he's holding these 483 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: negotiations in order to sort of increase the power of 484 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: the union and build this like safety network be like that. 485 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: Because he has these personal relationships with people in the regime, 486 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: it means that he's not going to get disappeared and 487 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: his people are going to get disappeared. And this has 488 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: happened to a lot of even a lot of sort 489 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: of other regular union activists who didn't have this kind 490 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: of connection just like get vanished and the people are 491 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: able to build connections with like keep him from being 492 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: like vanished and keep his trade unis and being slaughtered. 493 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: And you know, like the people in like in the 494 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: military kadership like really think that, like, Okay, they've they've 495 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: they've gained you know, they they're they're getting an ally 496 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: and defeating communism. Uh. The thing they are actually doing, uh, 497 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: it's progressing their own grave diggers um. And okay you 498 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: know before yes, you know who else is creating their 499 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: own grove grave diggers garrison. Uh, the advertising industrial complex. Yes, 500 00:26:50,160 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: they have produced us Wake and Dream unbelievable. Well in 501 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: the meantime, So inside inside the New Batman game, you 502 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: play as the four sidekicks after Batman UM allegedly dies. 503 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: And the weirdest thing is that they because three of 504 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: the side Kicks don't usually have capes. They you know, 505 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: they don't do any kind of massive gliding feature for 506 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: city traversal. Instead, you have a really slow bat cycle 507 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: and then you have an almost spider Man like grappling 508 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: hook and it's it locks onto anything around you. It's 509 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: really confusing. And are we back? Okay, okay, and we're back. 510 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: We should we should leave in like just like two 511 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: minutes of Batman talking was completely bowled. So, okay, is 512 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: the everything about Lula just as a person is that 513 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: fundamentally he's a negotiator. Like his style is almost like 514 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: biden Esque in the sense of like Biden sort of 515 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: believes like talking to everyone across the political etcet etcetera. 516 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: Except like, Okay, the key difference here is that Lula 517 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: is actually charismatic. M hm. Yeah, but like you know, 518 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: he will just sit there like with people across the 519 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: aisle and like talk things out and negotia with them. 520 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: He'll talk with employers, will talk with members of the 521 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: military dictatorship. But you know, there were differences that like, Okay, 522 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: So Biden is like is a constant politician, right, Like 523 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: when he when he talks about like talking with people 524 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: across the aisle, he means like strum Thurman. Right when 525 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: Lula is talking with people, he's talking with everyone, like 526 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: he like literally everyone who runs the class. He's talking 527 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: with random people at like union halls and meetings, at 528 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: picket lines, at like soccer games, at bars. And because 529 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: he spends all of this time talking people constantly, he 530 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: gains this just like incredible ability to read crowds and 531 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: like Taylor message messages for them and like figure out 532 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: what sort of like like what what sort of things 533 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: will work with whatever person is saying. And he gains 534 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: this like absolutely incredible ability to sort of charm people, 535 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: and it works on people, even even on people who 536 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: fucking hey him, Like there were there were like journalists 537 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: who will spend literally their entire careers trying to destroy 538 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: him and who but when they're asked about them, they're like, well, 539 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 1: I mean, like it was a person and he's really charming, 540 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: like he's a nice guy, and but you know, so 541 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: part part of what he's doing in this period this 542 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: this is this is this is the late seventies um 543 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: going into the earladies. He's playing this like this very 544 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: specific like game of respectability politics of like not directly 545 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: criticizing the government and like so that there are these 546 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: like there are these strikes that start happening because Okay, 547 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: so it turns out that the military government has been 548 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: trying to get inflation, like the whole sort of economic 549 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: system they've been doing starts to fall apart, and inflation 550 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: starts to come back, and they start doing these like 551 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: measures to combat inflation and the unions originally no one 552 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: believed them. But the union has like has like a 553 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: like they have like a think tank kind of right. 554 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: They have like a social sort of like center with 555 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of sort of like sociologists and economists, and 556 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: they figure out that the union has been lying and 557 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: that's why that the government has been lying about inflation, 558 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: like how bad inflation is. And then the I m 559 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: F in the late seventies confirms is that that that 560 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: the military tatiship has been lying about how bad is 561 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: inflation is by doing subsistical stuff. And this matters because 562 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: they've been setting costs of living adjustments by a lower 563 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: level of inflation. That that that that was actually happening, 564 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: and this pisses everyone the funk off because they're like, 565 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: literally the government is robbing us, like they've been lying 566 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: by how bad inflation is like like third and it's 567 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: it's this is like this is like a thirty percent 568 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: income drop right for these workers. And this pisses everyone 569 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: the funk off. And suddenly there's these massive like protests. 570 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: There were like hundreds of thousands of people, Like a 571 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people will show up to a soccer stadium 572 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: as part of a strike. Like, but you know, Lula 573 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: has to make sure that everyone doesn't get murdered, and 574 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: so he does these things like he'll like he avoids 575 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: directly criticizing the government. He has this whole thing about 576 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: how like he wants to negotiate directly with the employers. 577 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: He like kicks out like left to student groups. You're 578 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: like trying to like distribute like communist students. You're like 579 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: trying to distribute pamp us the rallies. Because he's trying 580 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: to make sure that the strikers aren't seen as like 581 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: communist subversives and instead is sort of like they're seen 582 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: as like good, upstanding, hard working citizens. And yeah, here's 583 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: here's from the book again. Given the diverse outlooks, Lula 584 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: represented himself as a thoughtful, righteous man who disparaged riotous 585 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: behavior as unworthy and counterproductive like all honest workers. He 586 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: called for the strikers to be disciplined and counseled against 587 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: classes with the police. He continually framed their fight as 588 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: one with the companies, not the government or the policeman. 589 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: And this like works because any more radical action probably 590 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: is going to get everyone killed and I mean like 591 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: that when it's actually going on, there's like like they're 592 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: they're getting buzzed by helicopters. There's like fucking army trucks everywhere. Um, 593 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: but you know, he manages not to get everyone killed. 594 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: And the result of this is that Lula immediately becomes 595 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: the most famous worker in Brazil. He's like on TV, 596 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: he's leading strikes everywhere, Like there's the massive rallies, and 597 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: you know there's some really like there's some really like 598 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: genuinely adorable stuff that's happening where like when he when 599 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: he's giving his first speech to one of these rallies, 600 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: it's like it's fucking raining. The soccer stadium is just mud, 601 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: Like his podium is literally sinking into the bodies he's 602 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: trying to speak, and this is just like the first 603 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: time he's addressed the crowd, this loud and he's nervous 604 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: and people start leaving and they're doing this. One of 605 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: over things I learned about this is how old, how 606 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: old the crowd mike is, So they're doing this thing 607 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: that becomes own as the crowd mike, where like you 608 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: don't have a microphone or you can't reach every one 609 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: so each so okay, so some of the speaker says 610 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: like a sentence, and then each person in the crowd 611 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: says the sentence and it just sort of moves back 612 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: through the crowd up from everyone repeating it. And she's 613 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: trying to give the speech is not going great, and 614 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: like the workers in the front row start like yelling like, hey, 615 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: you can do this, Lula, don't worry, you got this, 616 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: and then he like and then and then this is 617 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,479 Speaker 1: like absolutely adorable moment and then he sort of like 618 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: like you know, gets better at it, and like by 619 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: like the second one of these like people are just 620 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: like in love with him. He is unbelievably popular, refusing 621 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: and edible speaker. He's like you know, and it's very easy. 622 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: And you see writing about this at the time that 623 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: are like that look at him and are like, well, 624 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: this guy like this guy is literally like like people 625 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: people are like calling him literally the messiah of the 626 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: working class right like that this is the kind of 627 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: sort of like like a claim that he has, like 628 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: there are there after one of his speeches, like the 629 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: entire crowd literally carries him on their shoulders from one 630 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: end of the soccer stadium to the other like there 631 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: are like like there there there are people like walking 632 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: on stage and calling him like father and saying him 633 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: Mary's like it's it's fucking wild. Um. But you know, 634 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: but like and like when when when when like sort 635 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: of rich and educated people look at this, They're like, oh, 636 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: these people are like blindly obedient to him. They're like 637 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: they have this client page and relationship. He's like manipulating 638 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: the mass, and that's not what's happening like that, that's 639 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: just that's just not what's happening. Like he actually, like 640 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: the union votes against him like a couple of times, 641 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: like because because she's she's trying to do negotiations, right, 642 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: and there's there's a there's this thing where if I'm 643 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: standing the story, right, I think what happened is that 644 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: he's trying to like negotiate like people coming back to works, 645 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: negotiations can continue. It's like a show of good faith 646 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: or whatever, and the unions like, funck no, we're not 647 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: going back to work, and just like votes him down. 648 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: And so like this kind of stuff happens right like that, 649 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, like people respect him enormously and he he 650 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: is like literally in some sense, he's like the avatar 651 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: of the industrial working class. Like working class people look 652 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: at him and like and they see themselves in him, 653 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: and they see they see the power that he's able 654 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: to sort of how many people he's around there, and 655 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, ship, the union is strong, Like we 656 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: are strong. We can actually sort of fight back. But 657 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: it's not like a sort of client patron thing he's 658 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: it's just like he's at the head of a workers 659 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: movement that is a force in and of itself and 660 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: has its own agency and capacity to act, and Lula 661 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: has to like negotiate with that and like he has 662 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: to sort of like rebuild their trust after he you know, 663 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: is taking a sort of more moderate line. He he 664 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: eventually gets like arrested nineteen eighty, although he gets released 665 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: after like a month, and from there he gets to 666 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: work founding like every important leftist organization like the last 667 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: forty years, um so in at eighty he's one of 668 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: the people who found the Workers Party. In eighty three 669 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: he founds the cut or to the English translation of 670 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: it's it's a Unified Worker Central, which like to this 671 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: day is Brazil's like National Trade Union Center. Like it's 672 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: like it's like their big Union Federation and this is 673 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: illegal at the time, but you just like fuck it, 674 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: we're doing anyways. Like these people are losing the the 675 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: tatorship losing control. Um. In the cut like plays a 676 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: huge role in how the dictatorship loses power. Um so 677 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: does the PT did something that like the PT the 678 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: PT like as a party are powerful enough that like 679 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: they're involved in drafting the constitution. He's there for the 680 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: founding the land this workers movement, which is a social 681 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: movement that like sees his land that's not being used 682 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: in readership, is it the workers. He's heavily involved in 683 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: the campaign to start of force the military out of 684 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: power and you know, as a military tatorship like kind 685 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: of falls apart in democracy like kind of like fully 686 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: returns to Brazil in he goes like full intelectoral politics. 687 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: But the problem is that like he's he's he's kind 688 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: of too early for his politics. Um. He he spends 689 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: like the entire nineties just like getting his ass handed 690 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: to him in elections over and over again. And part 691 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: of what's happening, you know, part of by part of 692 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: literally what he's doing in the nineties is rebuilt. It's 693 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: like he's like rebuilding the entire Latin American left like 694 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: from ground zero after the fall of the Berlin ball 695 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: Wall in the sort of like global defeated left in 696 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: the eighties. Um, he's one of the founders of the 697 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: foremost of South Polo, which is the first of this series. 698 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: Are sort of like meetings of leftists from Latin America 699 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: in the Caribbean, which is trying to figure out like okay, 700 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: like hey, what what what is socialism now that like 701 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall is down and everything is sort of 702 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: going to ship and in that's a really bleak prospect, 703 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: Like neoliberalism is completely ascended. Nationalism has destroyed socialism, like 704 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: every sort of former social states following apart, like capitalist 705 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: a running rampant across the globe. Like literally like entire 706 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: communist parties are just like disbanding and all of the 707 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: sort of cadre are becoming liberals. But you know, as 708 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: an ideas go on and people actually have to sort 709 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: of like live under this, they increasingly realize that it 710 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: sucks ass and that I you know what what living 711 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: under natalizabism means is like I m F structural adjustments 712 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: and like like the economy, like there's there's there's the 713 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: Asian market collapse. There's a bunch of other market collapses, 714 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: and you know, as f after the zappetits to sort 715 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: of go on the like the first like part of 716 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: the left to really go on the offensive after their 717 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: uprising in the left kind of starts to put itself 718 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: back together. And this Left, like I I think, like 719 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: this version of Left, it's kind of dead now, but 720 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: like I think there are people who are old enough 721 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: to remember it or like remember sort of like what 722 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: it used to be. Like the slogan of this sort 723 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: of whole like like left, Like one of the big 724 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: slogans is another world as Possible, which is sort of 725 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: like the Anti, Like the Anti it's a response to 726 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: like Thatchers, there is no alternative like another world as 727 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: possible is this is the sort of like alter globalization Left, 728 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: Like this is a left that does the Battle of Seattle, 729 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: and Lula is there for like all of it, Like 730 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: after Seattle, he helped after the Battle Seattle, like he 731 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: helps found the World Social Forum, which is just like 732 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: giant meeting plays for like international social movements, um and 733 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, and and so you know, through through this 734 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: whole period, like the Left is sort of gathering his 735 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: strength everywhere, like well, okay in Latin America and also 736 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: like I mean, it isn't a lot of places right, 737 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: like in India. Um, it's like Indoniesia, somethings in the US, 738 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: although the US has this problem that n Lefton happens 739 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: and yeah, that's a ship show. Yeah, it's amazing how 740 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: that this movement existed almost everywhere else, but not to 741 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: my knowledge, is as significantly here. Yeah. Well, I mean 742 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: we had we had we had, we had Seattle, right, 743 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: but then when that leven happened, that the big unions 744 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: like pulled out of doing any direct action ship and 745 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: then it kind of everything kind of got eight by 746 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: the of the anti war movement, which and then and 747 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: then the Green Scare. Yeah, then that led to Adbusters 748 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: doing and the stuff that occupied Well Street and then yeah, 749 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: and that's okay. I would say this, I think there's 750 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a break here, Like I 751 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: think I think occupy is when that kind of politics died, 752 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: because when when occupies the under And this is the 753 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: sort of iron of this and we'll get you next episode, 754 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: is that, like you could there's a good argument that 755 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: the place that politics actually died was in Brazil when 756 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: the Workers Party fucking like tear gas and rubber bulleted 757 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: the absolute ship out of a bunch of protesters who 758 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: had been who were like the Brazilian Wave of sort 759 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: of like that series of protests, and they crushed the 760 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: ship out of them. It is horrible, like this is 761 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 1: one of this is like one of like my foundations 762 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: and political memories. Is like fucking tanks rolling down the street, 763 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: people shooting rubber bullets at people like seven year olds 764 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: getting tear gassed. It is a it is a fucking 765 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: ship show. But and and she thousand too, like you know, 766 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: it's not that we have we haven't gotten there yet. 767 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: Like even the sort of like most in nicol Trotsky 768 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: I like can't imagine the fucking pig rolling tanks through 769 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: the favelas, which is what they're gonna be doing in 770 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: twelve years. And Briton we had that was when I 771 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: can't requite remember when Tony Blackman There's nightty seven, but 772 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: like the British Tony Blair right like represented this other 773 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: vision for the last well and everything is like people 774 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: like like one of those everything was like people talk 775 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: about Obama as being like the end of the same wave, 776 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: except Obama is sort of like the like even more 777 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: so than any of the other politicians when we're talking 778 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: about is sort of like recuperation of this right, Like 779 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: he's the guy who takes out energy and is like yeah, 780 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: and and and okay, so we're we're gonna get into 781 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: like the negative side of all of this ship next episode. 782 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: But like in some sense, Lula does play a similar 783 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: role in Brazil, and we will get there, but right now, 784 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: you know, Okay, So there's another part of this that 785 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: like doesn't get talked about that much, which is that 786 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: in the nearly two thousand's in Latin America, it's not 787 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: just like the left is winning elections, Like there are 788 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: open revolutions going on, Like I mean, there's there's there's 789 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of them. There's a like like arguably like 790 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: the last communist revolution, like ever happens in uh like 791 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: the last sort of like the last gas of the 792 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: classical workershop what happens in Argentina in two thousand and one, 793 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: there's this huge revolt against the I M. F and 794 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: astarian like this is this is the last time like 795 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: in world history that like people occupy factories and then 796 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: attempt to like like take them over and use them 797 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: as a way of seizing amazing production. People occupy factories 798 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: in Bosnian has A go Vi and just fourteen. But 799 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: like by that point, like like those guys are occupying 800 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: factories and then having like occupy meetings in them, they're 801 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: not like attempting to sort of like seas production. Yeah, 802 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: but you know, like like these there's are real revolutions, right, 803 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: Like there's there's there's there's a coup against Hugo Travis 804 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: that gets overturned by another popular revolution. Um, there's the 805 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: water and gas wars in Bolivia, which culminate in like 806 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: literally deep like the capital is like entirely blockaded off 807 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: from the rest of the country and surrounded by roadblocks, 808 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: and the fucking government is five. The government is like 809 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: fucking imploding. The military has fallen apart, like you know, 810 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: like they like and this this this is this is 811 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: this is the sort of chain of events that brings 812 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: you rallies into power, but like they very nearly just 813 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: destroyed the entire believing government. The cycle sort of ends 814 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: with the Wahaka uprising in two thousand and six, were 815 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: like like the people of Wahaka just fucking take the 816 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: city and hold it for like like a few months 817 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: and like running through democratic assemblies and then like the 818 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: army shows up and they get Yeah. But like you know, 819 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,359 Speaker 1: like like there there is a point like that that 820 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: was like I think, like like in my lifetime, like 821 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: the workers of a city fucking just took it over. 822 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: This is stuff that like you know, like I think 823 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: now we're we kind of like we have problems, Like 824 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: I think most people have sort of forgotten about this 825 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: stuff like this, This was a moment in which like 826 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: like revolution of the destruction of capitalism was on the table. Yeah, 827 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 1: and like of it. I'm not sure, but I lived 828 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: in Venezuela for some of this time briefly, but it 829 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: felt very possible in a way that like it probably 830 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: hasn't since, right, Like, yes, it was fascinating to see, like, 831 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 1: and the cooperation between those countries was very real, right, 832 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: Like obviously Cuban and Cuban Cuban doctors are sucking everywhere, 833 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: right if you travel resource saying there, But it was 834 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: fascinating to see like people from here coming here and 835 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,879 Speaker 1: they think they had that Sal Paolo Forum right where 836 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: they would where these ideas would be exchanged and it 837 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: it Yeah, and that was very formative for me. It 838 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: genuinely felt like it was possible for something as a 839 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: result of this, like ghoul ish I m F policy 840 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: that we've had for the previous twenty years, people like, no, 841 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: funk this, we're doing it our way, and yet didn't. Okay, 842 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: but this is this is this is what's really weird 843 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: about Lula because Lula is running and she doesen't too, 844 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: and he's watching all of this happen, and his strategy 845 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,839 Speaker 1: his response to this is basically the analysis because he okay, 846 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: so she spent the entire nineties lose rotting leftist campaigns 847 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: and losing right, and his strategy in two two is 848 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: he's going to move the PT, the Worker's Party, to 849 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: the right both of hers a messaging and in policy 850 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: so it's not too sort of like scare voters. And 851 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: he finally convinces the rest of the PT to do 852 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: something he's been advocating for for like decades, which is 853 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: allying with sort of like liberal or conservative like non 854 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: leftist parties, which they do in this election. And we're 855 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: going to see how that goes later because oh, boy. 856 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: But you know, okay, so like why why why why 857 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: are they sort of doing this. There's a few reasons. 858 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: Partially it's because Lula has been like losing elections and 859 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: being like, okay, we have to do something different. Partially 860 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: it's because the PC is a product of the collapse 861 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: of like, okay, the PT, like in the two thousand's, 862 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: like the base that had formed that party is basically collapsed, 863 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: right that the PT is like it. It's core constituencies 864 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: are sort of like leftist groups. There's like like left 865 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: wing Catholic groups and the sort of like the giant 866 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: sort of like trade union stuff that like the giant 867 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: workers trupment that Lulu is a part of it, but 868 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: he doesn't too. Like the Catholic Church has swung back 869 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: to the right. Like the sort of the sort of 870 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: left Catholic people are on the retreat. There's very few 871 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: of them left. Um, there's and we're gonna talk about 872 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: this more later. But the sort of giant industrial unions 873 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: that like Lula had been ahead of, like and that 874 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, Lua's career and the PT itself comes from, 875 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: have been shattered by sort of like the by by 876 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: the industrialization and the collapse of sort of Brazil's industrial economy, 877 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: and the product of this is that with without its 878 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,959 Speaker 1: sort of social basis, like Lula keeps losing elections. So 879 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: he goes, okay, so it's solution to this, and the 880 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: the PC understands this right, like they're they're aware of 881 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: the fact that, like part of what's happening with them 882 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: is that, like they've they've you know, they're they're losing 883 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: parts of their working class base because that that working 884 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: class literally doesn't exist anymore. They're gaining a bunch of 885 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: sort of middle class like leftist activists, but they need 886 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: to find a way to sort of broughten their appeal. 887 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: And so like he promises, like openly gives us like 888 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: speech about how he's not going to do like a 889 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: rupture with the economy, which is what this party have 890 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: been compaigning on, because you know, the PTR leftist right, 891 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: the whole point of another world is possible is we 892 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: don't have to live a capitalist anymore. Lula is like, no, no, no, no, no, guys, 893 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, I didn't I didn't mean that, like, 894 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 1: we're not gonna do a rupture. And instead what Lula 895 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: does is pledges to and like stays in the Brazil's 896 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: commitments to the i m F, including like fucking insane 897 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: ship like maintaining primary budget surpluses, which is nuts, and 898 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: you know, and he instead of like yeah, yeah, he 899 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: stays in the end. And you know, so Argentina famously, 900 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: like argentina solution to the sort of uprisings that are 901 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 1: happening is that they default on our death to the 902 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: i m F. And they're like, fuck you, we're not 903 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: paying and Lula is like, now we're paying, Like it's fine, 904 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,360 Speaker 1: We'll just keep paying it. And like the PT itself 905 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: is like what the funk is going on? Like what 906 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: what is happening here? Why is this happening here? Like 907 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: why why is he doing this? And you know, it 908 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: is just like, well, okay, we need to take power, 909 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,359 Speaker 1: we need to do this, take power, and so we does. 910 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: And weirdly, in the middle of this cycle of sort 911 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: of like the resurrection of the left, he's running increasingly 912 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,919 Speaker 1: to the right. And you know, okay, part of what's 913 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: happening here is that there's an inherent problem that leftist 914 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 1: governments have when they take over the state, especially when 915 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: they take over a capitalistate by winning an election, which 916 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: is that if you are in control of the government, right, 917 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: if your control the state, your job is now to 918 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: keep the economy running. And in theory this isn't incompatible 919 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: with leftist police. But if you stop, if you stop 920 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,760 Speaker 1: and think about what this actually means. For a second, 921 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: keeping the economy running means keeping the economy growing, and 922 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: economic growth right means that capitalists have to keep making 923 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 1: more money every year when they did last year. Like that. 924 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: That's what economic growth is, right, And this is a 925 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: real problem if you are a leftist taking power, because 926 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: if you don't do this, you will a lose elections 927 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,760 Speaker 1: because regular people will get piste off because when capitalists 928 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: don't make more money, they start firing people and be 929 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: the bourgeoisie who only ever grudgingly accepts the left is 930 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 1: sort of like a legitimate power in the first place. 931 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,240 Speaker 1: If you're if you're if they're if they're not getting 932 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,359 Speaker 1: more money every single year, they will overthrow you. And 933 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, Lula knows this, right. But the solution to 934 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: this problem that these they sort of like pink tight 935 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: governments come to is basically to let a faction of 936 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: the sort of national bourgeois either sort of national capitalist 937 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: class of people who are like capitalists domestically, like they 938 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: let them into this project of sort of like not 939 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,240 Speaker 1: this nationalist developmental project. And so what this means essentially 940 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: is you are like you are buying you are buying 941 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: a section of the ruling class off right. You are 942 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: giving them ass to state contracts. You're doing state investments 943 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: infrastructure that helps them like expand things like mining so 944 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 1: they can you know, take some of the profits from it. 945 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: You're giving them preferential access to government contracts and exchange. 946 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: We started supporting you. And there's a lot of ways 947 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: this can look like the m A s and Bolivia, 948 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 1: for example, starts bringing these e leits directly into the 949 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: party with the sort of developmentalist faction UM. In Brazil, 950 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: it looks like an alliance is something called the Centro, 951 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,840 Speaker 1: which is like thorow, sorry my portues is not good. UM, 952 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: which is this like this sort of like every present 953 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,240 Speaker 1: force in Brazilian politics, which is like the corruption faction. 954 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,520 Speaker 1: It's like this this series of sort of parties that 955 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 1: are like kind of loosely knit, you kind of vote together, 956 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: but you don't like they don't their parties nominally have 957 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: ideology but like their ideology is I am I am 958 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,840 Speaker 1: like a local political like powerful political person, and you 959 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: are going to pay me or you will not be 960 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: able to pass literally any bill ever. And okay, so 961 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 1: they have to form an alliance with sort of these parties. 962 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: And the other thing they start doing is that they 963 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,560 Speaker 1: are just literally but like they just literally start buying 964 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,279 Speaker 1: people off. And this leads to sort of like a 965 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: bunch of corruption scandals that we're gonna get you next episode, um, 966 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: but will While Lula is an office, this seems like 967 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: it's working really well. Um He's able to sort of 968 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: pay off the bourgeoisie and fund these social welfare programs 969 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: for the Brazilian working class. And this has a massive impact, right, 970 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 1: Like this lists something like twenty million people out of poverty, 971 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: and okay and I I and other people will argue 972 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 1: about what it means to like lift people out of 973 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 1: poverty and how poor they still are, but you know, 974 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,320 Speaker 1: it is true. These people have a massive increase in 975 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: quality of life, like people are getting running water in 976 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: their homes for the first time, like people are having 977 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: electricity for the first time. Um. It's it's also with 978 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: pointing out that Lula, who is white, spends a fucking 979 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: ship ton of time fighting like fighting against racism and 980 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: fighting for educational job opportunities for black people, even though okay, 981 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,840 Speaker 1: there's like an asterisk next to that that has to 982 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 1: do with the police that back saying yeah it's it's 983 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: fucking oh boy it it is worse than you can 984 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:03,360 Speaker 1: possibly imagine. Um who you know, like he's trying to 985 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: end hunger. He has this very famous program called the 986 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: Bosa Familia, which is basically like if you're pouring off 987 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,560 Speaker 1: and you agree to send your kids to school and 988 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: get the vaccinated, like the government will just give you money. 989 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 1: And you know, there's also a micro loan part of this, 990 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: which is my dot dot dot. Uh, this won't go 991 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah not nothing bad will happen from the Brazilian 992 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: government attempting to get a bunch of people to take 993 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: micro loans. Um this, this does not lead us into 994 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: fascism at all. But you know, okay, like this works, right, 995 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,720 Speaker 1: Lula is able to grow the economy, like Brazil's economic 996 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: growth this period just like seven percent, which is sucking nuts, 997 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 1: like year on year. Um he leaves office, was I've 998 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,320 Speaker 1: seen it, ultimately said, it's like an eighty five or 999 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: ninety cent a proof of rating. He's unbelievably popular, and 1000 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, so every everything like looks good, right kind 1001 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: of from inside Brazil, it looks like the PC has 1002 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of everyone. They've been like 1003 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,200 Speaker 1: they've been a successful social democratic party and that they've 1004 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,360 Speaker 1: lifted a most people out of poverty. There's like people 1005 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,399 Speaker 1: who are alive because like who are alive today who 1006 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: would not be because the PT was in power, right 1007 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 1: and you know, like there are people who don't starve, 1008 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,280 Speaker 1: there are people who don't go hungry, there are people 1009 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: who have opportunities, like educational opportunities to opportunities to them, 1010 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: so the first time ever, and it's a successful capitalist 1011 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 1: government too, because again seven percent year und of your growth, right, 1012 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,360 Speaker 1: like this is fucking nuts, Like this is this is 1013 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: a kind of economic growth that is like unimaginable in 1014 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,920 Speaker 1: in most parts of the world. However, Comma, if this 1015 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,720 Speaker 1: at all actually worked, we wouldn't be here right now 1016 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,759 Speaker 1: with I, you know, the fascist president going into like 1017 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: hiding and so next episodes, you know, March I've been 1018 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: to I've been talking about grave diggers sort of this episode. Right, 1019 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,399 Speaker 1: there's there's a famous part of the Communist Manifestory talks 1020 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 1: where where Mark talks about like capital like capitals in 1021 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,400 Speaker 1: producing its own grave diggers, and capitalism has never done that, 1022 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,839 Speaker 1: right like like to to to this day right now, 1023 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: capitalism has as yet to produce his own grave diggers. 1024 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,480 Speaker 1: Social Democracy has Bruce's own grave diggers in every single 1025 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,320 Speaker 1: fucking country anyone's ever done it. And the next episode, 1026 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 1: in next episode, we're going to watch the pt brduce's 1027 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: own grave diggers, and we're going to watch them attempt 1028 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: to bury Louise and Nasio, Lula da Silva and the 1029 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: rest of the Brazilian working class a live. Oh good, 1030 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: You want to do a Bolsonara update because he's apparently 1031 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,319 Speaker 1: left the building. Oh ship, okay, yeah, Bolsonara up the weight. 1032 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: Bolsonara has left the building. Hold on breaking breaking news. 1033 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 1: He left the palace finally, Yeah, in a convoy of 1034 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,359 Speaker 1: black SUVs. Hope he's expected to break the silence. Yeah, 1035 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 1: so I'm looking at Benjamin fogelh he's pretty good on this. Yeah, 1036 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: he's expected to break the silence, but not to congratulate 1037 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,840 Speaker 1: Lula on winning. Jesus Christ is I have lost good bye. Okay, 1038 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:56,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, there might be a if I don't know 1039 00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: what we're gonna do, if there's a coup in between 1040 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 1: in between this episode and the next episode, hopefully not, 1041 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I want one thing that, 1042 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,359 Speaker 1: like I will say and that I think we we're 1043 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,840 Speaker 1: gonn talk a bit about next episode. Is it? Like 1044 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 1: part of what's happening right now that's very important is 1045 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: that Biden is an office in the US. And I mean, okay, 1046 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,360 Speaker 1: so the Brazilian military is a long history of doing coups, 1047 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 1: but usually when they're doing coups, they're doing cous with 1048 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 1: the backing of the US government. And Biden, like just 1049 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: on a personal level, fucking hates Bullsonaro. And there is 1050 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: a there is a very real chance that this is 1051 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: a significant factor in why we haven't seen a coup. 1052 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: Is literally, the President of the United States personally does 1053 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: not like the vastiest president of Brazil. And this is 1054 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,439 Speaker 1: a fucking batshit state of affairs, right, Like the fact 1055 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,759 Speaker 1: that like the like personal inclinations of the President of 1056 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,040 Speaker 1: the United States has as much of an impact on 1057 00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: like the politics of an entire country is nuts. And 1058 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,920 Speaker 1: this happened in the other direction for a while, right, 1059 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,720 Speaker 1: Like it's I guess not personally, just a nine connection 1060 00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,160 Speaker 1: of the president in that case. Yeah, well there's weird 1061 00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 1: things here too, because like like Lula was really friendly 1062 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 1: with it with Bush, which I think is why part 1063 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,320 Speaker 1: of why he never like they never tried to cut him, 1064 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:23,239 Speaker 1: who called him the devil? Yeah, just friends, right, Travis 1065 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,799 Speaker 1: gives the speech about how like everyone has the road 1066 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,600 Speaker 1: like at the at the social form gives how everyone's 1067 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: existing in their own like conditions. So you can't expect, like, 1068 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, you can't expect Lula to be Travis, you 1069 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: can't expect Raaves to be Castro like stuff like that. Yeah, 1070 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: but it's it's weird. Hopefully Bill Snarow fucking leaves office. 1071 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,560 Speaker 1: If not, I don't know, But either way, I don't know. 1072 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: Things are the history of Brazil dream. This period is 1073 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: also kind of bleak, but after this period is way 1074 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: the funk bleaker. So yeah, we're gonna talk about that 1075 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,360 Speaker 1: tomorrow and yeah, we'll update you if there is a 1076 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:12,080 Speaker 1: Q it could happen. Here is a production of cool 1077 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit 1078 00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 1: our website Cool zone media dot com or check us 1079 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,840 Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 1080 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,880 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources for 1081 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: It could happen here, Updated monthly at cool zone media 1082 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,160 Speaker 1: dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.