WEBVTT - Not Over Yet | EP 15 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:06.120 It's Friday, June twenty sixth, and I am heading to 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.280 the courthouse right now for hearing on whether or not 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.640 they extend this plea deal out again. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.560 Clayton sent me this voice note as he headed to 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.800 the Maricopa County Superior Courthouse. He was hoping for a resolution, 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.480 one that included jail or prison as part of Laura's sentence, 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.360 and Clayton is determined to go to all the pre 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.320 trial hearings he can so he can let the judge 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.000 know that. At every hearing he's been trying to catch 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.360 Laura's gaze to let her know he's not afraid of her. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.559 She usually won't look him in the eye, but at 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.839 this specific hearing, Clayton says, she looked right at him. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.320 I made eye contact with Laura, and she looked away 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.160 and then looked right back, stared at me for a 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.040 couple of seconds, and did that about four times. As 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.920 I stared at her for a solid twenty seconds. Look 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:08.319 it felt different. I almost saw in her eyes like 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.800 a sadness at what she's done. Maybe it's hit her 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.440 that it's very real possibility she's gonna get locked away. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.000 It really felt like she's defeated. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.440 Clayton wasn't the only victim who showed up in court 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.240 that day. Greg Gillespie was there too. He's the one 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.120 who went on a few dates with Laura back in 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.400 twenty twenty one and is now named as the state's 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:32.600 other primary victim. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.360 And I could have let me and Greg showed up 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.360 that she realized like, oh fuck, these guys are not 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.560 just going to like move on. They're here to make 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.720 sure that I face accountability. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.840 I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:54.080 There's no way you'd better be. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:57.880 I'll be lazy. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:05.880 Holy Hella, if you ever heaver. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:07.960 Trastic. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.679 Last week, on Monday, June twenty ninth, Laura was back 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:27.120 in court. She's facing fourteen felony charges, including fraud, forgery, perjury, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:32.160 tampering with physical evidence, and theft by extortion. She'd been 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.840 offered a plea deal by the state, and we thought 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.640 that on June twenty ninth, she'd either have to accept 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:42.560 the plea or begin the trial process. Instead, the deadline 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.800 for her criminal plea was extended once again. I don't 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.799 like to be the person who brings you this news. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.480 I feel like the boy who cried Wolf I believed, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.840 like a lot of my sources in this story, that 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.519 we would finally have an answer on Monday, but we didn't. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.200 So I'm going to walk you through what happened. Let's 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.480 go back to Friday, June twenty sixth. That's when there 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.840 was a settlement conference in her case. It's basically a 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.880 meeting where a defendant can have a more transparent conversation 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.800 with a judge about how this case can be resolved 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.400 without trial. We were told these meetings are typically private 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.640 behind closed doors, so I didn't plan to attend, but 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.760 to our surprise, this one was opened to the public. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.360 Two of the victims listed in this case, Clayton Eckerd 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.520 and Greg Gillespie, were both in attendance. I caught up 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.320 with Clayton and his attorney would Nick, right after the hearing, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.680 and you'll hear from them throughout this episode. Thankfully, the 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:46.200 hearing was recorded and posted on YouTube and. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.520 The court well call matter on the calendar. 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:48.880 State v. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.880 Laura Owens case Tomersira twenty twenty five zero zero seven 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.480 nine zero five can have appearances please starting with the state. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.240 Good after you or at Lara in Best State after 0:03:59.320 --> 0:03:59.560 You're on. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.760 A Christians of Laura owns whose president need to be 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:02.320 set stable. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.360 This hearing was presided over by a commissioner, not a judge, 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.240 and Commissioner Jonathan Simon was pretty thorough. Part of his 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.120 job is to explain the criminal process to the defendant 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.800 in this case, that's Laura. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:17.640 From this one's. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.640 My name is Commissioner Simon, and I've been asked to 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:21.520 do the settlement conference in your case today. 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.000 This is an informal setting rle. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.200 You'll have the opportunity to talk about your case if 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:27.440 you want to, and just see if you can get 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.680 it resolved. We're going to discuss and you can ask 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.680 questions about the plea agreement that you've been offered in 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.320 this case, and the options that you have in this 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.039 case and the potential range of penalties. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.240 Commissioner Simon made it clear that he won't be the 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.360 one making a ruling on her criminal case, but it's 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.800 important to have the commissioner explain all the options on 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.560 the table for the defendant. This has to be on 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.000 the record. It's part of due process. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.000 I'm just going to help you get as much information 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.640 as you can about your case while you still have 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.520 some options, and I know that there is the current 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.120 plea offer on the table. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.920 He then detailed what would happen if Laura doesn't take 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:03.520 the plea deal. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:05.880 If you do decide to go to the trial and 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.400 you don't want the plea agreement. In this case, there 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.240 is a possibility, obviously that the jury finds you not 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.599 guilty on these charges, which would be I think your. 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:14.680 Best case scenario, right. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.160 But if the jury finds you guilty on any of 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.520 the charges, then the judge would have to impose the 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.719 sentence and. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.280 You are probation eligible. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.719 So if the jury finds you guilty on any of 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.760 these charges, the judge at sentencing could place you on 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.240 probation for each of those counts. With any probation term, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.320 a judge can impose up to twelve months of jail 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:35.080 as a. 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.840 Term of probation. Do you understand that, yes, thank you okay? 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.359 And if you don't get probation, the judge may sentence 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:42.000 you to prison. 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:48.240 Laura is being charged with fourteen felonies. Here's the breakdown. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.840 Eleven class four felonies, one class six felony, and then 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:59.640 the most serious two class two felonies. Arizona has guidelines 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.640 for prison in terms for each kind of offense, and 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.960 within each guideline there's a wide range of sentencing you'll see. 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.599 For the class two felony, the lowest sentence is three 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.760 years and the aggravated sentences twelve and a half years. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.080 For the class four felonies, that would be a mitigated 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.320 sentence of one year, and the maximum would be three 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.919 years on those, And for that class six felony, the 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.359 mitigated the lowest would be four months and the aggravated, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.800 which would be the highest, would be two years. So 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:31.800 if you found guilty on multiple counts in your sentence, 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.359 the judge can have those run concurrently, so those prison 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.479 sentences at the same time or consecutively, which means they'd 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:38.800 run one after the other. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.880 Do you understand that as well? Yes, thank you. 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.000 I guess if you took this to trial and it 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.200 was the absolute worst day that you could have at trial. 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.719 But just assuming for today's hearing that they'd all have 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.599 to run consecutively one after the other. For the class 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.760 four felonies with the eleven of those, that would be 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.320 over thirty seven years for those, and for the class 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.839 twos it would be over twenty five years for those, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:01.839 and for that Class six. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.040 It would be two years on that one. 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.000 So if you add those up, it would be a 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:07.200 significant amount of time. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.480 The commissioner said he didn't think that was likely to happen, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.440 but wanted to make sure Laura understood what was at 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.880 stake here. I asked Clayton's attorney Greg Woodnick about this moment. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.240 Does that mean she's going to prison? No, but it's 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.000 really fucking scary. I mean, if I were Laura, I 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.280 would have been anxious hearing that read out loud, even 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.240 though she's probably read the supervening indictment hundreds of times. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.800 After the Commissioner explained the whole process, the state prosecutor 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.200 ed Leider was given the opportunity to address the plea 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:42.120 deal on the table. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.480 Here are the plea agreement which was sent to defense 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.760 counsel over a month ago. 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:48.680 It does expire today. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.560 One of the issues and I do want to express, 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.360 and I think one of the victims wants to address 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.800 the court the frustration and this is often a frustration 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:02.600 that all parties, but often victimscifically feel in terms of 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:03.560 how long. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.520 The justice system often takes. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.680 In this particular case, mister Luters is now her third 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.840 attorney whenever additional attorneys come on to a case or 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:18.680 a new attorney that tends to drag the case on further. 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.880 And certainly I understand and the victims rightfully so, are 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.000 deeply frustrated about how long this is taking. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.680 And then mister Lighter addressed the amount of evidence they're 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:31.840 working with in this case. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.160 One of the issues, and it provides the crux of 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.640 the state's case against Ms Owens is the vast majority 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.440 of our evidence against her is digital forensic evidence derived 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.920 largely from her cloud account self and extractions among others. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:52.320 As a result, that evidence is voluminous. I think we're 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.760 multiple terabytes of data. The state has moved as quickly 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.560 as we can to get that information in front of 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.560 mister Luters. But as I understand, he can explain in 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.280 more detail, but there has been some issues in terms 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.480 of his ability to review some of that evidence. 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:13.439 According to the prosecutor, Laura's attorney is having difficulty accessing 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.480 some of the digital evidence, which seems to be causing 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.880 a delay. Here's how the commissioner responded. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:21.520 I do understand the frustration. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.400 This case is taking longer than you'd like, but mister 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.720 luteris does have an obligation to properly advise his client 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.280 on how to proceed, and in order to do that, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.080 I think he has to review all of the evidence. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.080 So if you were going to trial without having. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.959 To review all of the evidence, where the court didn't 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.640 give him that proper time to do that, the case 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.079 wouldn't be closed as quickly as maybe you would like, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.720 because I think it would open the case up for 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.520 potentially an appeal and possibly going back to trial on that. 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.319 So I think the idea is that if we. 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.760 Can give mister Luthers the opportunity to review all of 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.439 the evidence here, he can properly advise Miss Owens and 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.920 prepare for trial. Given the terabytes, I would think that 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:03.880 that would take some time to go through, So be 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:05.760 inclined to give and it wouldn't be again me ruling 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:06.800 on this, but any judge. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.560 Of be inclined to give miss Litter's time there to 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:09.040 review that. 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.280 Laura's attorney is telling the courts there are terabytes and 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.360 terabytes of evidence and he needs more time to go 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.560 through it all. We've only heard about a sliver of 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.400 what's in that digital evidence, so when I hear there's 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.760 so much more digital evidence. My mind is racing trying 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.160 to imagine what the state might have found. There was 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.360 one moment where the prosecutor revealed more details about the 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 charges and the listed victims in this case. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.200 I haven't spoken about this, but there's also Stormy Mitchell, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.280 who is the woman whose ultrasound was used. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:43.880 By miss Owens. 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:45.480 That is actually a third. 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.520 Victim, and she feels very strongly about being exploited by 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:50.559 Miss Owens. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.880 Then Laura's attorney asked the prosecutor about the specifics of 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.679 the fraudulent scheme charge, and in the middle of that 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.079 question he said something interesting. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.480 Listen, you know, the evidence of perjury is strong. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.040 You and I have talked about that. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.400 I was surprised Laura's attorney admitted on the record that 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.720 the evidence of perjury is strong. So I asked Greg 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:15.600 Woodnick about it. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.839 I heard Christian's comment on the recording. I don't know 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.000 if that's what he meant, but I heard what he said. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.240 Is it possible that he's already looked through some of 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.720 it and seen some very damaging data. Yeah, I think 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.520 there's probably more than a lot of evidence against Laura. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.199 I think we all think that. I think that's probably 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:34.880 the genesis of a lot of the frustration. 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.160 Because this settlement hearing is informal, the victims were allowed 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:46.040 to speak. Clayton went first. He questioned Laura's attorney's request 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.800 for more time to review the evidence. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.840 The big thing I want to focus on is not 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.520 allowing an extension on the play deals simply because she 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.040 has a history of delaying and it's just going to continue. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.120 My understanding is he's coming. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.880 Of the case a few months ago, and this feels 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.400 like an eleventh hour push to say I can't access 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.360 the material. You know, to me, if you couldn't access 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.480 the material, you should have accessed a day one and 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.520 every single day you should have been following up to 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.320 get that evidence. I'm all for due process, but to me, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.200 this just feels like an extension of her tactic, carried 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.920 out by him to extend it. And it's been three years. 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:29.360 I'm tired. I know we're all tired. And a ton 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.680 of evidence latantly obvious. She's admitted on the stand to 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.960 medical frauds, she's admitted to certain lies. It's a clear 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.360 cut case she's guilty. There's no reason to drag it 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.839 out and say the terabytes of information are going to 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.360 somehow change something. When did you come in, when did 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.679 you get the material first sent to you? And then 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.040 how hard did you really try to access this material? 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.920 I just would like to know how much efferty is 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.800 put into actually access in the documents. I think that's 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.160 important to take into consideration. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.839 Yim's luters, I mean, do you have any idea of 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.560 how long it will take you too to get to 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:05.280 that information? 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:06.040 All? Right? 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:07.679 Would be that informa question. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.520 The specific question is how hard I've tried. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.120 Clayton sent me a voice memo after the hearing where 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:18.360 he talked about this moment. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.600 He kind of gave me a smart asked response to 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.160 my question as far as like when did you get 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.600 the information? And what's he been doing this whole time? 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.160 And he just said to the judge, like, what's the question, 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.040 like how much I've heard of I put in? That 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.920 felt very condescending. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.040 Back in the hearing, Christian Looters had a response to Clayton. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.200 He said he had been trying to access the evidence 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.640 at least more so than any of Laura's previous attorneys. 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.800 I can safely say, and I've made this clear to 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.680 the prosecutor's office for the past month and a half 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.960 or so since this was officially disclosed and actually was 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.920 this close to her previous attorney. That's not incorrect, but 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.520 there was nothing done about that information with any of 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.040 the previous attorneys. I can safely say that that we're 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.880 the first ones who have actually started to look at it, 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:06.960 and we have done everything we can up to this 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:08.640 point to do that. That's what I'll say. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.880 Before Friday's hearing concluded, there was another victim who wanted 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.720 to speak, someone who has his own history with Laura, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.720 But we haven't heard a lot from Greg Gillespie. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.000 If Laura attains new representation, are we going to learning 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.600 time frames around that so we're not doing this over 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.000 and over and over again. 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.040 One of the victims named in Laura's criminal case, Greg Gillespie, 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.240 attended the hearing on June twenty sixth. Greg had one 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:56.760 particular concern. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.560 If Laura attains new representation, A, we're going to burning time 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.880 frames around that, so we're not doing this over and 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.040 over and over again. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.240 Given the circumstances, I would think that if there was 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.360 a new attorney on the case, the judge would try 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.760 to put some parameters in place. But again, It's really 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.720 difficult for me to say what those parameters would be. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.200 But again, I do understand your concerns and your frustrations 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.440 in that regard and wanting to get this case moving 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.160 and see that justice is done. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.960 Greg Gillespie told the judge he'd been dealing with the 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.760 impacts of this since twenty twenty one, and Greg had 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.400 a good question. What happens if Laura fires this attorney 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.320 and gets a new one, or what if he quits? 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.880 I asked wood Nick about this very real possibility. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.400 If she did part ways with current counsel, she would 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.520 need enough time to get new council so that they 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.000 could get up to speed and handle advising her on 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.320 a plea or getting the matter ready for trial. Is 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.840 that going to cause delays or would that cause delays? Absolutely? 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.520 At some point is the court to say, you know, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.920 we can't do this anymore, we need to move this along. Yes, 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.040 but the court is never going to say that in 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.840 a way that deprives Laura of the ability to defend herself, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.640 and the court should not do that because it's important 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.600 that Laura is adequately represented. It's important that anyone accused 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.680 of fourteen felony charges have adequate representation. 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.560 Briday's hearing gave us insight into why the state is 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.000 considering an extension of the plea deadline, but nothing was 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:28.960 officially decided. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.760 So it sounds like we're not going to be able 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.600 to get the case result today, at least this current 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:34.760 version of the plea agramment. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.000 Would that be fair? That's very wrong? Okay? Is there 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.520 anything else that we need to address today? I know 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:41.000 we do have. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.240 There is a case management conference. Looks like Monday in 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.280 front of Judge Ruter. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.680 I don't think so, not from the defender's perspective. 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.080 Someone, did you have any questions for me? 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:51.600 No? 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:52.520 Thank you for your honor. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.000 Okay, well, I appreciate you all being here this action 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:57.800 in and sharing your concerns as well. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.600 After the hearing ended, I talked with Clayton. He told 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.320 me something interesting. He and Laura were making eye contact 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.160 and he felt like something about her had changed. 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.920 There was a moment in the court where I felt 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.240 this urge to just stare her down, and in the 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.640 past I've done it. It's not so much to intimidate her. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.880 It's more like, I'm not afraid of you. You can't 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.439 do anything to me, and I hope you can feel that. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:36.560 So I did that this last time, and Laura made 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.800 eye contact and then darted her eyes away like she 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:43.399 typically does, but this time she darted her eyes away 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:48.199 and then instantly looked back at me, held her gaze 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.040 for like three seconds, darted her eyes away, then held 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.560 her gaze for like five six seconds, and at that 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.560 point I broke my eye contact because like, I was 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.280 taken aback, because it was the first time that she's 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.520 ever locked eyes with me and held it in that moment, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.280 there was something different resonating from her. She's looked at 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.080 me in the past and she's given me like that smirk, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.399 you know, like I've got you and who do you 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.640 think you are doing this to me? But this time 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.560 was like there was something weird there where it was 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.000 like she was looking at me and it was almost 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.800 like a scared child. So it was fear, but it 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.560 was also a mix of like I'm sorry, I don't 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.399 know what I've done, and that was weird. That was 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.720 just something on Friday that happened. That was the first 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.199 time thing and it was something new. I'll just that 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.320 was for sure. It was a new look that I 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:39.760 am like, okay, something is shifted. 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.240 On Monday, June twenty ninth, everyone arrived at the Maricopa 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.760 County Superior Courthouse once again. This time it was for 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.920 a status update in Laura's criminal case. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.560 This is CR twenty twenty five zero zero seven nine 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.679 zero five State versus Laura Michelle Owen's time set for 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.240 a complex case management conference and a status conference. 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.840 I wasn't able to be there in person, but a 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.560 few of my sources were there, and they said there 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.360 appeared to be extra security in the courthouse that day. 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.399 We'd already gotten a preview of what Laura's attorney might say, 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.320 which is that he needed more time to review the evidence. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.439 But Monday was Laura's opportunity for a formal answer on 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.520 the plea deal, and there was still a little hope 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.439 that it could finally be over, that Laura would surprise 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:38.520 us all by taking the plea. Clayton told me the 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.920 hearing began in a way he didn't expect the. 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.240 Judge wants to meet with the prosecutor and her lawyer 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:51.199 back in the chambers, So I was already kind of like, really, like, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:52.880 why can't we discuss this openly? 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.960 After a few minutes, the judge and lawyers returned to 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.679 the court room. But now that they were on the record, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.720 there was very little they had to discuss. Most of 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.200 it had already been covered at the settlement conference a 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:10.360 few days earlier. The only thing left was an administrative detail. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.600 All right, there's a pending motion modify release conditions to 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.000 permit travel. Mister Lighter, did you want to be heard 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:18.840 on that issue? 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.040 On Friday, June twenty sixth, Laura submitted an out of 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:28.200 state travel request. Remember, because she's charged with fourteen felonies 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.199 in the state of Arizona, she has to ask for 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.600 permission to leave the state. She wanted to go to 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.720 San Diego, California, right after this hearing. We've had a 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:40.680 voice actor read from the travel request. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.680 The purpose of her trip is to help her sister, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.120 Sarah with caring for her young children. Sarah has been 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.879 away from her home on business, and her husband was 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.600 unexpectedly called away next week for work. They have no 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.679 one to care for their two young children while they're away. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.879 The couple frequently relies on miss Owens for childcare, and 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.879 they do not have another option. In this situation. 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.720 The victims have the right to object to travel requests. 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.679