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Speaker 1: It's Friday, June twenty sixth, and I am heading to

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Speaker 1: the courthouse right now for hearing on whether or not

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Speaker 1: they extend this plea deal out again.

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Speaker 2: Clayton sent me this voice note as he headed to

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Speaker 2: the Maricopa County Superior Courthouse. He was hoping for a resolution,

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Speaker 2: one that included jail or prison as part of Laura's sentence,

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Speaker 2: and Clayton is determined to go to all the pre

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Speaker 2: trial hearings he can so he can let the judge

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Speaker 2: know that. At every hearing he's been trying to catch

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Speaker 2: Laura's gaze to let her know he's not afraid of her.

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Speaker 2: She usually won't look him in the eye, but at

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Speaker 2: this specific hearing, Clayton says, she looked right at him.

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Speaker 1: I made eye contact with Laura, and she looked away

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Speaker 1: and then looked right back, stared at me for a

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Speaker 1: couple of seconds, and did that about four times. As

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Speaker 1: I stared at her for a solid twenty seconds. Look

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Speaker 1: it felt different. I almost saw in her eyes like

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Speaker 1: a sadness at what she's done. Maybe it's hit her

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Speaker 1: that it's very real possibility she's gonna get locked away.

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Speaker 1: It really felt like she's defeated.

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Speaker 2: Clayton wasn't the only victim who showed up in court

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Speaker 2: that day. Greg Gillespie was there too. He's the one

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Speaker 2: who went on a few dates with Laura back in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and is now named as the state's

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Speaker 2: other primary victim.

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Speaker 1: And I could have let me and Greg showed up

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Speaker 1: that she realized like, oh fuck, these guys are not

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Speaker 1: just going to like move on. They're here to make

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Speaker 1: sure that I face accountability.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped.

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Speaker 3: There's no way you'd better be.

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Speaker 4: I'll be lazy.

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Speaker 5: Holy Hella, if you ever heaver.

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Speaker 6: Trastic.

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Speaker 2: Last week, on Monday, June twenty ninth, Laura was back

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Speaker 2: in court. She's facing fourteen felony charges, including fraud, forgery, perjury,

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Speaker 2: tampering with physical evidence, and theft by extortion. She'd been

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Speaker 2: offered a plea deal by the state, and we thought

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Speaker 2: that on June twenty ninth, she'd either have to accept

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Speaker 2: the plea or begin the trial process. Instead, the deadline

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Speaker 2: for her criminal plea was extended once again. I don't

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Speaker 2: like to be the person who brings you this news.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the boy who cried Wolf I believed,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of my sources in this story, that

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Speaker 2: we would finally have an answer on Monday, but we didn't.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to walk you through what happened. Let's

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Speaker 2: go back to Friday, June twenty sixth. That's when there

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Speaker 2: was a settlement conference in her case. It's basically a

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Speaker 2: meeting where a defendant can have a more transparent conversation

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Speaker 2: with a judge about how this case can be resolved

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Speaker 2: without trial. We were told these meetings are typically private

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Speaker 2: behind closed doors, so I didn't plan to attend, but

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Speaker 2: to our surprise, this one was opened to the public.

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Speaker 2: Two of the victims listed in this case, Clayton Eckerd

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Speaker 2: and Greg Gillespie, were both in attendance. I caught up

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Speaker 2: with Clayton and his attorney would Nick, right after the hearing,

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Speaker 2: and you'll hear from them throughout this episode. Thankfully, the

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Speaker 2: hearing was recorded and posted on YouTube and.

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Speaker 7: The court well call matter on the calendar.

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Speaker 4: State v.

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Speaker 8: Laura Owens case Tomersira twenty twenty five zero zero seven

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Speaker 8: nine zero five can have appearances please starting with the state.

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Speaker 7: Good after you or at Lara in Best State after

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Speaker 7: You're on.

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Speaker 9: A Christians of Laura owns whose president need to be

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Speaker 9: set stable.

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Speaker 2: This hearing was presided over by a commissioner, not a judge,

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Speaker 2: and Commissioner Jonathan Simon was pretty thorough. Part of his

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Speaker 2: job is to explain the criminal process to the defendant

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Speaker 2: in this case, that's Laura.

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Speaker 7: From this one's.

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Speaker 8: My name is Commissioner Simon, and I've been asked to

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Speaker 8: do the settlement conference in your case today.

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Speaker 7: This is an informal setting rle.

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Speaker 8: You'll have the opportunity to talk about your case if

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Speaker 8: you want to, and just see if you can get

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Speaker 8: it resolved. We're going to discuss and you can ask

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Speaker 8: questions about the plea agreement that you've been offered in

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Speaker 8: this case, and the options that you have in this

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Speaker 8: case and the potential range of penalties.

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Speaker 2: Commissioner Simon made it clear that he won't be the

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Speaker 2: one making a ruling on her criminal case, but it's

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Speaker 2: important to have the commissioner explain all the options on

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Speaker 2: the table for the defendant. This has to be on

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Speaker 2: the record. It's part of due process.

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Speaker 8: I'm just going to help you get as much information

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Speaker 8: as you can about your case while you still have

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Speaker 8: some options, and I know that there is the current

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Speaker 8: plea offer on the table.

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Speaker 2: He then detailed what would happen if Laura doesn't take

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Speaker 2: the plea deal.

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Speaker 8: If you do decide to go to the trial and

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Speaker 8: you don't want the plea agreement. In this case, there

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Speaker 8: is a possibility, obviously that the jury finds you not

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Speaker 8: guilty on these charges, which would be I think your.

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Speaker 7: Best case scenario, right.

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Speaker 8: But if the jury finds you guilty on any of

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Speaker 8: the charges, then the judge would have to impose the

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Speaker 8: sentence and.

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Speaker 7: You are probation eligible.

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Speaker 8: So if the jury finds you guilty on any of

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Speaker 8: these charges, the judge at sentencing could place you on

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Speaker 8: probation for each of those counts. With any probation term,

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Speaker 8: a judge can impose up to twelve months of jail

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Speaker 8: as a.

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Speaker 7: Term of probation. Do you understand that, yes, thank you okay?

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Speaker 8: And if you don't get probation, the judge may sentence

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Speaker 8: you to prison.

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Speaker 2: Laura is being charged with fourteen felonies. Here's the breakdown.

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Speaker 2: Eleven class four felonies, one class six felony, and then

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Speaker 2: the most serious two class two felonies. Arizona has guidelines

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Speaker 2: for prison in terms for each kind of offense, and

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Speaker 2: within each guideline there's a wide range of sentencing you'll see.

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Speaker 8: For the class two felony, the lowest sentence is three

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Speaker 8: years and the aggravated sentences twelve and a half years.

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Speaker 8: For the class four felonies, that would be a mitigated

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Speaker 8: sentence of one year, and the maximum would be three

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Speaker 8: years on those, And for that class six felony, the

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Speaker 8: mitigated the lowest would be four months and the aggravated,

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Speaker 8: which would be the highest, would be two years. So

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Speaker 8: if you found guilty on multiple counts in your sentence,

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Speaker 8: the judge can have those run concurrently, so those prison

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Speaker 8: sentences at the same time or consecutively, which means they'd

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Speaker 8: run one after the other.

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Speaker 7: Do you understand that as well? Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 8: I guess if you took this to trial and it

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Speaker 8: was the absolute worst day that you could have at trial.

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Speaker 8: But just assuming for today's hearing that they'd all have

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Speaker 8: to run consecutively one after the other. For the class

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Speaker 8: four felonies with the eleven of those, that would be

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Speaker 8: over thirty seven years for those, and for the class

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Speaker 8: twos it would be over twenty five years for those,

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Speaker 8: and for that Class six.

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Speaker 7: It would be two years on that one.

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Speaker 8: So if you add those up, it would be a

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Speaker 8: significant amount of time.

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Speaker 2: The commissioner said he didn't think that was likely to happen,

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Speaker 2: but wanted to make sure Laura understood what was at

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Speaker 2: stake here. I asked Clayton's attorney Greg Woodnick about this moment.

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Speaker 10: Does that mean she's going to prison? No, but it's

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Speaker 10: really fucking scary. I mean, if I were Laura, I

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Speaker 10: would have been anxious hearing that read out loud, even

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Speaker 10: though she's probably read the supervening indictment hundreds of times.

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Speaker 2: After the Commissioner explained the whole process, the state prosecutor

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Speaker 2: ed Leider was given the opportunity to address the plea

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Speaker 2: deal on the table.

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Speaker 11: Here are the plea agreement which was sent to defense

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Speaker 11: counsel over a month ago.

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Speaker 7: It does expire today.

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Speaker 11: One of the issues and I do want to express,

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Speaker 11: and I think one of the victims wants to address

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Speaker 11: the court the frustration and this is often a frustration

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Speaker 11: that all parties, but often victimscifically feel in terms of

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Speaker 11: how long.

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Speaker 7: The justice system often takes.

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Speaker 11: In this particular case, mister Luters is now her third

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Speaker 11: attorney whenever additional attorneys come on to a case or

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Speaker 11: a new attorney that tends to drag the case on further.

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Speaker 11: And certainly I understand and the victims rightfully so, are

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Speaker 11: deeply frustrated about how long this is taking.

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Speaker 2: And then mister Lighter addressed the amount of evidence they're

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Speaker 2: working with in this case.

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Speaker 11: One of the issues, and it provides the crux of

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Speaker 11: the state's case against Ms Owens is the vast majority

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Speaker 11: of our evidence against her is digital forensic evidence derived

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Speaker 11: largely from her cloud account self and extractions among others.

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Speaker 11: As a result, that evidence is voluminous. I think we're

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Speaker 11: multiple terabytes of data. The state has moved as quickly

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Speaker 11: as we can to get that information in front of

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Speaker 11: mister Luters. But as I understand, he can explain in

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Speaker 11: more detail, but there has been some issues in terms

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Speaker 11: of his ability to review some of that evidence.

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Speaker 2: According to the prosecutor, Laura's attorney is having difficulty accessing

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Speaker 2: some of the digital evidence, which seems to be causing

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Speaker 2: a delay. Here's how the commissioner responded.

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Speaker 7: I do understand the frustration.

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Speaker 8: This case is taking longer than you'd like, but mister

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Speaker 8: luteris does have an obligation to properly advise his client

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Speaker 8: on how to proceed, and in order to do that,

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Speaker 8: I think he has to review all of the evidence.

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Speaker 7: So if you were going to trial without having.

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Speaker 8: To review all of the evidence, where the court didn't

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Speaker 8: give him that proper time to do that, the case

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Speaker 8: wouldn't be closed as quickly as maybe you would like,

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Speaker 8: because I think it would open the case up for

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Speaker 8: potentially an appeal and possibly going back to trial on that.

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Speaker 7: So I think the idea is that if we.

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Speaker 8: Can give mister Luthers the opportunity to review all of

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Speaker 8: the evidence here, he can properly advise Miss Owens and

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Speaker 8: prepare for trial. Given the terabytes, I would think that

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Speaker 8: that would take some time to go through, So be

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Speaker 8: inclined to give and it wouldn't be again me ruling

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Speaker 8: on this, but any judge.

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Speaker 7: Of be inclined to give miss Litter's time there to

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Speaker 7: review that.

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Speaker 2: Laura's attorney is telling the courts there are terabytes and

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Speaker 2: terabytes of evidence and he needs more time to go

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Speaker 2: through it all. We've only heard about a sliver of

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Speaker 2: what's in that digital evidence, so when I hear there's

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Speaker 2: so much more digital evidence. My mind is racing trying

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Speaker 2: to imagine what the state might have found. There was

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Speaker 2: one moment where the prosecutor revealed more details about the

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Speaker 2: charges and the listed victims in this case.

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Speaker 11: I haven't spoken about this, but there's also Stormy Mitchell,

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Speaker 11: who is the woman whose ultrasound was used.

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Speaker 4: By miss Owens.

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Speaker 7: That is actually a third.

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Speaker 11: Victim, and she feels very strongly about being exploited by

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Speaker 11: Miss Owens.

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Speaker 2: Then Laura's attorney asked the prosecutor about the specifics of

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Speaker 2: the fraudulent scheme charge, and in the middle of that

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Speaker 2: question he said something interesting.

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Speaker 9: Listen, you know, the evidence of perjury is strong.

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Speaker 7: You and I have talked about that.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised Laura's attorney admitted on the record that

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Speaker 2: the evidence of perjury is strong. So I asked Greg

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Speaker 2: Woodnick about it.

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Speaker 10: I heard Christian's comment on the recording. I don't know

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Speaker 10: if that's what he meant, but I heard what he said.

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Speaker 10: Is it possible that he's already looked through some of

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Speaker 10: it and seen some very damaging data. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 10: there's probably more than a lot of evidence against Laura.

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Speaker 10: I think we all think that. I think that's probably

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Speaker 10: the genesis of a lot of the frustration.

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Speaker 2: Because this settlement hearing is informal, the victims were allowed

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Speaker 2: to speak. Clayton went first. He questioned Laura's attorney's request

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Speaker 2: for more time to review the evidence.

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Speaker 1: The big thing I want to focus on is not

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Speaker 1: allowing an extension on the play deals simply because she

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Speaker 1: has a history of delaying and it's just going to continue.

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Speaker 7: My understanding is he's coming.

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Speaker 1: Of the case a few months ago, and this feels

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Speaker 1: like an eleventh hour push to say I can't access

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Speaker 1: the material. You know, to me, if you couldn't access

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Speaker 1: the material, you should have accessed a day one and

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Speaker 1: every single day you should have been following up to

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Speaker 1: get that evidence. I'm all for due process, but to me,

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Speaker 1: this just feels like an extension of her tactic, carried

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Speaker 1: out by him to extend it. And it's been three years.

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Speaker 1: I'm tired. I know we're all tired. And a ton

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Speaker 1: of evidence latantly obvious. She's admitted on the stand to

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Speaker 1: medical frauds, she's admitted to certain lies. It's a clear

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Speaker 1: cut case she's guilty. There's no reason to drag it

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Speaker 1: out and say the terabytes of information are going to

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Speaker 1: somehow change something. When did you come in, when did

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Speaker 1: you get the material first sent to you? And then

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Speaker 1: how hard did you really try to access this material?

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Speaker 1: I just would like to know how much efferty is

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Speaker 1: put into actually access in the documents. I think that's

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Speaker 1: important to take into consideration.

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Speaker 8: Yim's luters, I mean, do you have any idea of

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Speaker 8: how long it will take you too to get to

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Speaker 8: that information?

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Speaker 1: All? Right?

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Speaker 7: Would be that informa question.

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Speaker 9: The specific question is how hard I've tried.

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Speaker 2: Clayton sent me a voice memo after the hearing where

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Speaker 2: he talked about this moment.

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Speaker 1: He kind of gave me a smart asked response to

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Speaker 1: my question as far as like when did you get

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Speaker 1: the information? And what's he been doing this whole time?

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Speaker 1: And he just said to the judge, like, what's the question,

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Speaker 1: like how much I've heard of I put in? That

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Speaker 1: felt very condescending.

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Speaker 2: Back in the hearing, Christian Looters had a response to Clayton.

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Speaker 2: He said he had been trying to access the evidence

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Speaker 2: at least more so than any of Laura's previous attorneys.

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Speaker 9: I can safely say, and I've made this clear to

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Speaker 9: the prosecutor's office for the past month and a half

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Speaker 9: or so since this was officially disclosed and actually was

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Speaker 9: this close to her previous attorney. That's not incorrect, but

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Speaker 9: there was nothing done about that information with any of

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Speaker 9: the previous attorneys. I can safely say that that we're

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Speaker 9: the first ones who have actually started to look at it,

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Speaker 9: and we have done everything we can up to this

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Speaker 9: point to do that. That's what I'll say.

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Speaker 2: Before Friday's hearing concluded, there was another victim who wanted

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Speaker 2: to speak, someone who has his own history with Laura,

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Speaker 2: But we haven't heard a lot from Greg Gillespie.

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Speaker 6: If Laura attains new representation, are we going to learning

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Speaker 6: time frames around that so we're not doing this over

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Speaker 6: and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: One of the victims named in Laura's criminal case, Greg Gillespie,

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Speaker 2: attended the hearing on June twenty sixth. Greg had one

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Speaker 2: particular concern.

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Speaker 6: If Laura attains new representation, A, we're going to burning time

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Speaker 6: frames around that, so we're not doing this over and

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Speaker 6: over and over again.

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Speaker 8: Given the circumstances, I would think that if there was

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Speaker 8: a new attorney on the case, the judge would try

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Speaker 8: to put some parameters in place. But again, It's really

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Speaker 8: difficult for me to say what those parameters would be.

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Speaker 8: But again, I do understand your concerns and your frustrations

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Speaker 8: in that regard and wanting to get this case moving

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Speaker 8: and see that justice is done.

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Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie told the judge he'd been dealing with the

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Speaker 2: impacts of this since twenty twenty one, and Greg had

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Speaker 2: a good question. What happens if Laura fires this attorney

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Speaker 2: and gets a new one, or what if he quits?

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Speaker 2: I asked wood Nick about this very real possibility.

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Speaker 10: If she did part ways with current counsel, she would

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Speaker 10: need enough time to get new council so that they

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Speaker 10: could get up to speed and handle advising her on

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Speaker 10: a plea or getting the matter ready for trial. Is

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Speaker 10: that going to cause delays or would that cause delays? Absolutely?

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Speaker 10: At some point is the court to say, you know,

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Speaker 10: we can't do this anymore, we need to move this along. Yes,

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Speaker 10: but the court is never going to say that in

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Speaker 10: a way that deprives Laura of the ability to defend herself,

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Speaker 10: and the court should not do that because it's important

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Speaker 10: that Laura is adequately represented. It's important that anyone accused

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Speaker 10: of fourteen felony charges have adequate representation.

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Speaker 2: Briday's hearing gave us insight into why the state is

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Speaker 2: considering an extension of the plea deadline, but nothing was

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Speaker 2: officially decided.

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Speaker 8: So it sounds like we're not going to be able

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Speaker 8: to get the case result today, at least this current

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Speaker 8: version of the plea agramment.

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Speaker 7: Would that be fair? That's very wrong? Okay? Is there

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Speaker 7: anything else that we need to address today? I know

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Speaker 7: we do have.

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Speaker 8: There is a case management conference. Looks like Monday in

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Speaker 8: front of Judge Ruter.

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Speaker 9: I don't think so, not from the defender's perspective.

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Speaker 7: Someone, did you have any questions for me?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 4: Thank you for your honor.

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Speaker 8: Okay, well, I appreciate you all being here this action

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Speaker 8: in and sharing your concerns as well.

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Speaker 2: After the hearing ended, I talked with Clayton. He told

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Speaker 2: me something interesting. He and Laura were making eye contact

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Speaker 2: and he felt like something about her had changed.

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Speaker 1: There was a moment in the court where I felt

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Speaker 1: this urge to just stare her down, and in the

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Speaker 1: past I've done it. It's not so much to intimidate her.

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Speaker 1: It's more like, I'm not afraid of you. You can't

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Speaker 1: do anything to me, and I hope you can feel that.

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Speaker 1: So I did that this last time, and Laura made

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Speaker 1: eye contact and then darted her eyes away like she

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Speaker 1: typically does, but this time she darted her eyes away

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Speaker 1: and then instantly looked back at me, held her gaze

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Speaker 1: for like three seconds, darted her eyes away, then held

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Speaker 1: her gaze for like five six seconds, and at that

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Speaker 1: point I broke my eye contact because like, I was

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Speaker 1: taken aback, because it was the first time that she's

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Speaker 1: ever locked eyes with me and held it in that moment,

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Speaker 1: there was something different resonating from her. She's looked at

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Speaker 1: me in the past and she's given me like that smirk,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I've got you and who do you

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Speaker 1: think you are doing this to me? But this time

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Speaker 1: was like there was something weird there where it was

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Speaker 1: like she was looking at me and it was almost

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Speaker 1: like a scared child. So it was fear, but it

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Speaker 1: was also a mix of like I'm sorry, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I've done, and that was weird. That was

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Speaker 1: just something on Friday that happened. That was the first

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Speaker 1: time thing and it was something new. I'll just that

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Speaker 1: was for sure. It was a new look that I

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Speaker 1: am like, okay, something is shifted.

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Speaker 2: On Monday, June twenty ninth, everyone arrived at the Maricopa

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Speaker 2: County Superior Courthouse once again. This time it was for

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Speaker 2: a status update in Laura's criminal case.

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Speaker 12: This is CR twenty twenty five zero zero seven nine

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Speaker 12: zero five State versus Laura Michelle Owen's time set for

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Speaker 12: a complex case management conference and a status conference.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't able to be there in person, but a

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Speaker 2: few of my sources were there, and they said there

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Speaker 2: appeared to be extra security in the courthouse that day.

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Speaker 2: We'd already gotten a preview of what Laura's attorney might say,

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Speaker 2: which is that he needed more time to review the evidence.

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Speaker 2: But Monday was Laura's opportunity for a formal answer on

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Speaker 2: the plea deal, and there was still a little hope

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Speaker 2: that it could finally be over, that Laura would surprise

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Speaker 2: us all by taking the plea. Clayton told me the

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Speaker 2: hearing began in a way he didn't expect the.

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Speaker 1: Judge wants to meet with the prosecutor and her lawyer

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Speaker 1: back in the chambers, So I was already kind of like, really, like,

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Speaker 1: why can't we discuss this openly?

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Speaker 2: After a few minutes, the judge and lawyers returned to

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Speaker 2: the court room. But now that they were on the record,

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Speaker 2: there was very little they had to discuss. Most of

382
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Speaker 2: it had already been covered at the settlement conference a

383
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Speaker 2: few days earlier. The only thing left was an administrative detail.

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Speaker 12: All right, there's a pending motion modify release conditions to

385
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 12: permit travel. Mister Lighter, did you want to be heard

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Speaker 12: on that issue?

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Speaker 2: On Friday, June twenty sixth, Laura submitted an out of

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Speaker 2: state travel request. Remember, because she's charged with fourteen felonies

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Speaker 2: in the state of Arizona, she has to ask for

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Speaker 2: permission to leave the state. She wanted to go to

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Speaker 2: San Diego, California, right after this hearing. We've had a

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Speaker 2: voice actor read from the travel request.

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Speaker 5: The purpose of her trip is to help her sister,

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Speaker 5: Sarah with caring for her young children. Sarah has been

395
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Speaker 5: away from her home on business, and her husband was

396
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 5: unexpectedly called away next week for work. They have no

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Speaker 5: one to care for their two young children while they're away.

398
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Speaker 5: The couple frequently relies on miss Owens for childcare, and

399
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 5: they do not have another option. In this situation.

400
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Speaker 2: The victims have the right to object to travel requests.

401
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 2: In this case, both greg and Clayton said they didn't

402
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: want Laura to travel out of state. Afterwards, I asked

403
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Speaker 2: Clayton why he feels that way.

404
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: She deserves to start feeling the pain of her actions.

405
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Speaker 1: There needs to be something inconveniencing her, because as of

406
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Speaker 1: right now, there is nothing inconveniencing her. Laura can go

407
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Speaker 1: do anything she wants today because she has no restrictions.

408
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Speaker 1: You wouldn't even know that Laura is facing felony charges.

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Speaker 2: You can hear the frustration in Clayton's voice. But in

410
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Speaker 2: the end, Judge Ruder permitted Laura's travel request.

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Speaker 12: I did review the record Miss Owens made all her

412
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 12: court appearances, does not appear to be a flight risk,

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Speaker 12: so over the victim's objection and permit Miss Owens to

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Speaker 12: travel to California.

415
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: When I talked to Clayton after the fact, he was

416
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Speaker 2: still heated about this.

417
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's problematic to me because Laura should have

418
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: been already feeling the ratifications for her actions, but yet

419
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: the court has just said you want more time. There

420
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Speaker 1: you go, Laura have it.

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00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 2: At the end of the hearing, there was some back

422
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: and forth about scheduling the next one, and interestingly this

423
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Speaker 2: line from the judge, I.

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Speaker 12: Know there's some I guess there was some recently disclosed

425
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Speaker 12: evidence that the defense is reviewing.

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00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: We don't know yet exactly what that means, but it's

427
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 2: worth mentioning just in case something comes a bit. Like

428
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: we said, most of the substance had already taken place

429
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 2: in chambers. The plea deal was not even discussed directly

430
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 2: in this hearing.

431
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Speaker 12: So miss Owens, stay in touch with your lawyer, and

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Speaker 12: we are in recess this man.

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Speaker 2: Shortly after the hearing, a new settlement conference appeared on

434
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Speaker 2: the docket for August twenty eighth, twenty twenty six. That

435
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: looks like the new plea expiration date. After this hearing,

436
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 2: Clayton spoke to the prosecutors directly. They told him about

437
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: what happened in the judge's chambers that day, and it

438
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: was illuminating for me. It seems like Laura has a

439
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: hard line no jail time, no prison time.

440
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: He said basically like, look, we're in the chambers and

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00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: the judge is trying and everything in his power to

442
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Speaker 1: get us to come to a plea. He doesn't want

443
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Speaker 1: to take this to a trial, so he's like, what

444
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: can we do to make this a plea. Laura's lawyer said,

445
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: if there was no jail time or prison time that

446
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: could be attached to the plea, she would have taken

447
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the plea already. That is what she's most afraid of.

448
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: As we know, Laura's demand is at odds with Clayton's.

449
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: Clayton wants her to see jail or prison time. In

450
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,239
Speaker 2: this meeting, the prosecutors told Clayton they would not take

451
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 2: jail or prison off the table. Clayton also wanted an

452
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 2: answer to another question.

453
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: I asked the prosecutor. I said, this deadline on the

454
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: twenty eighth of August, is that the absolute last point

455
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: at which she can take the plea? He said yes.

456
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: I said there is no situation in which that will

457
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: get extended. He goes, no, I'll make sure of it.

458
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 7: Okay.

459
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: So if she takes the plea on the twenty eighth,

460
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: because she will wait, she's not going to take it

461
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: on the twenty seventh. She's not going to take it,

462
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: you know, a month earlier. She's going to wait until

463
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: the last minute because she just wants to drag this out,

464
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: because she knows that it only harms us. But I said,

465
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: if she accepts that day, what happens from there? He goes, Well,

466
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: she accepts, we go to sentencing, which will be schedule

467
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: within a month. He goes, and then that'll be it.

468
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: You'll go in your day at court and then sentencing

469
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: will happen and that'll be it.

470
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 4: I said, okay.

471
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: And if she declines it, he goes, then she goes

472
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: to trial. I said it realistically, when does that occur?

473
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 4: Trial? He said?

474
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: Likely two months from that point. So you're saying probably

475
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: sometime in November. Crazy How we just push trial out

476
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: four months when it was supposed to be d of July.

477
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: That's the court system, though. That's just the business, baby,

478
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: that's what we're all supposed to be, okay with.

479
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: I've spent about thirty hours interviewing Clayton over the last year.

480
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: This interview was different. His emotion was so raw in

481
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 2: this conversation.

482
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have any power, and again,

483
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: I'm just being honest. I'm at the mercy of the court.

484
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing I can do. So for me,

485
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: I'm just going to sit here and go on with

486
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: my life and live my life outside of the situation,

487
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: try to think about this as little as possible, and

488
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: then show up on August twenty eighth, because there's nothing

489
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: I can do. I've written a letter to the prosecutor.

490
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: They've taken what I've said into consideration, but nothing changed.

491
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: It's neither bad nor good. It's just is what it is.

492
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: We sit and wait, and we just let the justice

493
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: system basically go at a snails pace like it always does.

494
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: Maybe do we just see it for what it is,

495
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: a system that's broken, that is still moving forward at

496
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: a glacial pace, and let's just wait it out.

497
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 4: And that's it.

498
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: He sounds defeated, But of course underneath that, it's frustration

499
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: and anger.

500
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: This whole thing is emotional. So let's show it. Let's

501
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: show people what it really is. Let's show all of it,

502
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: including some of the stuff that might be perceived as ugly.

503
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm just human. I'm just trying to

504
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: show the human experience, and this is the ugly, unfortunate

505
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: part of it. I'm the one that has to carry

506
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: this frustration for the next two months.

507
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: When I spoke with Woodnick, he took a much more

508
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: measured approach. He says, the court has to take reasonable

509
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: requests into consideration, because if they don't, and then Laura's

510
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: found guilty by a jury, she could have grounds for

511
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: an appeal, which would make this process much much longer.

512
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 10: The delays that we've dealt with, I think are very

513
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 10: normal delays involving them professionals and the process and assuring

514
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 10: that there's due process for Laura. I think the court's

515
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 10: doing exactly what the court is supposed to do. Prosecutors

516
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 10: doing exactly what they're supposed to do, as is Laura's attorney,

517
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 10: who's a good lawyer, and doing what he's supposed to do.

518
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: Woodn'tick says, the delays we've seen in this criminal case

519
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: are all pretty standard so far. We haven't even gotten

520
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 2: to the phase where potential delays are coming from the defendant.

521
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 10: Are there going to be other delays that we haven't

522
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 10: seen yet that are more Laura centric? And is she

523
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 10: going to on the day a jury set to and

524
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 10: panel to start a trial. Is she going to be hospitalized?

525
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 10: Is she going to claim she's got other medical issues

526
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 10: or family emergencies. Maybe, but those are tomorrow problems and

527
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 10: we're not going to be able to deal with them

528
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 10: until that happens, and the court is going to have

529
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 10: to deal with those accordingly.

530
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: When they happen.

531
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: Woudn'tick has been navigating the Laura Owen saga for nearly

532
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: five years, and even he admits he's running low on patients.

533
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 10: I get people's frustration, and candid least that I'm frustrated,

534
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 10: not because I'm frustrated with the process. I'm frustrated because

535
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 10: I want this chapter to come to an end. I

536
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 10: want the book to come to an end. I want

537
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 10: to know what's going to happen in the criminal process.

538
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: We all want to know the end of the story.

539
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: But would n't it provided kind of a wake up call.

540
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 10: I want this to be over with too, But I

541
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 10: also want it to be over with the right way.

542
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 10: If Laura wants to go to trial, great, go to trial.

543
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 10: Let's make sure it's a very fair trial and there's

544
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 10: no argument that she didn't have access to all the

545
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 10: data she needed or she needed an extra couple weeks.

546
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 10: If those sort of accommodations assured that a defendant, Laura

547
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 10: or anyone else gets a fair trial, then the court

548
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 10: needs to be doing that. And it does seem like

549
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 10: the court did that in the podcast, everyone's kind of

550
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 10: expecting this to come to a head. Your podcast, Love

551
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 10: Trap is kind of in real time, and I think

552
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 10: when you watch a lot of docuseries and people document

553
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 10: in crimes that have happened, have gone to trial, they're

554
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 10: happening after the fact. The story has already been told,

555
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 10: and you're in this very unique situation of being in

556
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 10: the middle of the story. And I think that's why

557
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 10: people feel some level of frustration.

558
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Before we hung up, wouldn't ex stress one more point

559
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: that the victims themselves continuing to come to court and

560
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: advocate for justice, as difficult as that can be, really

561
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: does move the needle.

562
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 10: The victims showing up sends a message that we're here,

563
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 10: we will be here. We will be here no matter what,

564
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 10: whether or not this trial goes in July or November

565
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 10: twenty thirty, we will be here. I think that was

566
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 10: the message that Greg and Clayton were senting.

567
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: Right as we pressed publish on the last episodes, we

568
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: heard some news. It's about Mike Marraccini's domestic violence restraining

569
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: order case in California. As you'll remember, Laura's DVRO against

570
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: Mike was dismissed by a San Francisco judge, but Laura

571
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: planned to appeal that decision. She had until June twenty ninth,

572
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, but at the last minute she requested

573
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: an extension and it was granted. She now has until

574
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: July twenty ninth to appeal the DVRO dismissal. As for

575
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: Laura's parents most recent bankruptcy filing, we have quite the update.

576
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: Ron and Jan filed for bankruptcy last year in an

577
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: effort to keep their house from being foreclosed on, but

578
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: they didn't complete their financial paperwork or make the required payments.

579
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: Because of that, their bankruptcy filing was dismissed and their

580
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: house was set to go to auction on May twenty sixth,

581
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. But a few days before that, they

582
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: filed for bankruptcy again to try to save their home.

583
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: This time they filed pro say, meaning without an attorney.

584
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: The judge asked them to come with documentation to prove

585
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: they qualified for the refiling. Ron and Jan said they would.

586
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: That's where we left off at the last bankruptcy hearing.

587
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 13: And so do you intend to complete your schedules due

588
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 13: on the twenty six.

589
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 14: I would like to if that timing doesn't work out.

590
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 14: I am committed to this. We are committed to this.

591
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: It turns out Ron and Jan were only committed for

592
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: about a week. Six days after that hearing, they filed

593
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: a motion for voluntary dismissal of their Chapter eleven bankruptcy filing,

594
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: citing they were unable to obtain counsel. Then, on July first,

595
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: Ron and Jan appeared virtually to continue their bankruptcy hearing.

596
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 13: Good afternoon, I'll take the appearances and then no one's battle.

597
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 13: Let's first start with the debtors.

598
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: I expected some boring bankruptcy dismissal full of technical jargon,

599
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: and boy was I wrong. Luckily, a recording of this

600
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: hearing was posted on YouTube. The presiding judge, the Honorable

601
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: Madeline Wansley, started it off with a bang.

602
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 13: At the last hearing, I heard a lot of information

603
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 13: about ponies and GoFundMe accounts and other potentially non disclosed assets.

604
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: Before this hearing, the attorney for the US Trustee, Jennifer Giamo,

605
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: and Ron and Jan had all come to an agreement

606
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: that their bankruptcy filing would be dismissed. But when they

607
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: got to court, Judge Wansley wasn't having it. She'd taken

608
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: into consideration the other potential assets, like the GoFundMe account

609
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: that was started for Ron's medical issues. The bankruptcy judge

610
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: saw some discrepancies that didn't sit right with her.

611
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 13: I guess what concerned me was if we had this

612
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 13: large sum of money within the last year for the

613
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 13: go fundme account, that that seems to be an asset

614
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 13: that could be potentially recovered for the benefit of creditors.

615
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: Jan tried to minimize the GoFundMe, which is still active

616
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: and to date has collected nearly one hundred and thirty

617
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: seven thousand dollars. This was Jan's reply to the judge.

618
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 14: And with regard to the go fundme, which I'm sure

619
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 14: you were notified by the online spare campaign that has

620
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 14: gone against us.

621
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 13: So let me just stir up to you to say

622
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 13: that the court only reviews what is filed with the court.

623
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 13: So I know your referenced an all one smear campaign before.

624
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 13: I really have no idea what you're talking about.

625
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: All I have.

626
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 13: All I have is what has been filed on the

627
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 13: dock and what people tell me an open court. I

628
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 13: do not independently go out and it would be unethical

629
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 13: for this judge or any judge to go out and

630
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 13: do background research on people and learn about them. So

631
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 13: just so you know, that's that's the way the court

632
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 13: will operate.

633
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 14: And I'm not suggesting that. I know that the smear

634
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 14: campaign people have said online that they have have sent

635
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 14: information to your office, so I don't know whether you've

636
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 14: received it or not. I know that they also sent

637
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 14: it to the US Trustees' office. But with regard to

638
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 14: the go fundme, as I mentioned before, it was started

639
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 14: in twenty twenty four, it was all virtually exhausted by

640
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 14: I would venture to say by May of twenty twenty five.

641
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. Ron's goofundme is still active and accepting donations.

642
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: I did some quick math on the public contributions, and

643
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: in the last year they received almost six thousand dollars.

644
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: I think Jan believed that she could talk her way

645
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: out of not reporting that income, but the judge was

646
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: intent on pushing the issue.

647
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 13: Well, transfers that are made shortly before the bankruptcy filing

648
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 13: do have to be disclosed. That it's problematic if you

649
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 13: did not disclose the use of those funds. I'm going

650
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 13: to order and direct that you provide the records concerning

651
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 13: that particular issue to Miss Jaima so that she has

652
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 13: an understanding as to the financial circumstances immediately preceding your

653
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 13: prayer case and this case, so that we she her

654
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 13: office and the court has a full understanding of the

655
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 13: circumstances before the case is dismissed.

656
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: Instead of issuing a dismissal, Judge Wansley wanted a full

657
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 2: accounting of their finances.

658
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 13: I'm really asking for a full accounting of the go

659
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 13: fundme account, the monies that were received and the monies

660
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 13: that were spent, and how they were spent, and so,

661
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 13: you know, the whole typical information. You know, what did

662
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 13: you get, when did you get it, what did you

663
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 13: do with it?

664
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 4: Where are your receipts?

665
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 7: Okay?

666
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: Okay? The who, what, when, where, why and how? Okay okay.

667
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 14: But again that was all prior to a chapter thirteen

668
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 14: that if we'd had those funds, we wouldn't have needed

669
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 14: to file Chapter thirteen or chapter eleven.

670
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 13: Okay, Well, I hear what you're saying. Some transfers can

671
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 13: be recovered despite the passage of time. This case was

672
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 13: filed on May twenty second, of twenty twenty six, and

673
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 13: it could be that if there were funds that were

674
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 13: transferred in a particular period, they would be of.

675
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 4: Interest to the US Trustee's office.

676
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: Okay, it seems like one of the reasons the judge

677
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: was so firm with jan is because the court previously

678
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: asked for documentation and it wasn't submitted to the US Trustee.

679
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: Jennifer Giamo, I know that I had directed you to

680
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: email to Miss Jimo the information required, and I don't

681
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: know if that's occurred.

682
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 4: I believe that that should happen.

683
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 13: Before this case is dismissed. I think we should have

684
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 13: a fullsome understanding of your financial circumstances. So i'm again,

685
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 13: I'm in order and direct that you provide that information

686
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 13: to Miss Jimo's office. Everything that you're so supposed to

687
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 13: be providing, you need to provide. So whatever that office

688
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 13: is asked for, I'm ordering and directing you to cooperate

689
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 13: and to provide that to.

690
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 14: Her, Your honor, we were unable to do that. I

691
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 14: had presumed that we would be able to get counsel

692
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 14: to help us. This was never my intention to file

693
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 14: pro SAE, and I'm very aware of the fact, the

694
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 14: Chapter eleven is a very exhaustive chapter to go into

695
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 14: as a pro sae litigant, and that was not our intent.

696
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 14: Our intent was to be able to get counsel. And

697
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 14: we have been unable to obtain counsel.

698
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 13: Well, you know your financial circumstances best, and so you

699
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 13: should be able to reconstruct that information and gather those

700
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 13: records to provide it to Ms.

701
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 14: Jiamo, Your honor, I'm unable to without without adequate counsel.

702
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 14: If I had been able to do that on my own,

703
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 14: we would have continued this on our own right.

704
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 13: But you filed this case. You filed a Chapter eleven

705
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 13: bankruptcy case. You have not yet paid the full filing fee.

706
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 13: And once you're under the jurisdiction of this court, you

707
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 13: have to abide by the United States Bankruptcy Code and

708
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 13: its rules and requirements. And I'll tell you one of

709
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 13: the most important things about the Bankruptcy Code is it

710
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 13: requires absolute transparency. And that's the concern of the court

711
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 13: is that the schedules and statements here, compared to the

712
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 13: prior Sedgele statements, seem to indicate a lack of transparency.

713
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 13: And so, as a participant in the system. You have

714
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 13: certain obligations that I'm directing you to fulfill those obligations.

715
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 13: It's not appropriate to file bankruptcy and park in bankruptcy

716
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 13: and obtain the protections of bankruptcy and yet not fulfill

717
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 13: the obligations.

718
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 4: And so again, that is your obligation.

719
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 13: You filed this case, you undertook these duties and responsibilities,

720
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 13: and now I'm directing you to cooperate.

721
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: I've heard that the judges and lawyers and bankruptcy courts

722
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: don't mess around. This was my first time really seeing

723
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: what that means.

724
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 13: You were previously ordered to provide them, you haven't provided

725
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 13: them from where the court sits.

726
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 4: You're currently in contempt, ma'am.

727
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 14: Oh I understand, I understand, Okay.

728
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 13: Okay, any other questions you're concerned, okay, thank you.

729
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: It's worth mentioning that those are the only words Ron

730
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 2: spoke during the whole proceeding, aside from announcing his name

731
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: at the very beginning. He sounds like he doesn't want

732
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: to be there. But Jan has another question for the judge.

733
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, did you have a question.

734
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 14: Well, the foreclosure date has been set for July the

735
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 14: twenty eighth, and I have filed some objections with the lender,

736
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 14: and I would like to hire an attorney to handle

737
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 14: the foreclosures. So I'm just wondering about how those dates coincide.

738
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: So with this date be said of August the sixth.

739
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 14: I'm a little unclear about the overlapping.

740
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: I don't really understand your question.

741
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 13: I mean, the court has set a hearing on August sixth,

742
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 13: and you said you have a foreclosure on July twenty eighth,

743
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 13: So I bet I don't understand what your question is.

744
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 4: You stated the facts, but what is the question.

745
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 14: The question is if the hearing is set on August

746
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 14: the sixth, how does that impact foreclosure on the twenty eighth.

747
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: To try and translate, Jen is asking if their home

748
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: will be protected from foreclosure. When they filed for bankruptcy,

749
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: an automatic stay was put in place. It instantly freezes

750
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: all debt collection, lawsuits and foreclosures. That stay was extended

751
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: until July first, the date of this hearing.

752
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 13: I see, what you're asking is if the court would

753
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 13: be inclined to extend the state that's temporarily in place.

754
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 4: Correct? Is that what you're asking? Okay?

755
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: Correct?

756
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 4: Miss Jeimo's to allow us to sort through all of this,

757
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 4: Miss Johnmo, do you have an opinion yes, jar or the.

758
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: US Trustee objects to the extension of the stay. I mean,

759
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 3: this is precisely one of the reasons that the US

760
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: Trustee considered the case to be filed in bad faith

761
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: and an abuse of the system. I believe that the

762
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: debtors have not paid their mortgage to the tune of

763
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety one thousand dollars of arrearages, and

764
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 3: while they are seeking the benefit of the state, they

765
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: haven't complied with the obligations of the bankruptcy court to

766
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 3: justify getting the benefit of this day, I do you

767
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: wish to respond?

768
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: Jan spends the next three minutes explaining that they've been

769
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: trying to get in touch with their mortgage lender, but

770
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: they're having a hard time figuring out who to contact

771
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: and how to get a reply.

772
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 14: So we really have been trying very, very hard for

773
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 14: a long time to get this resolved and to get

774
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 14: something in play so that we can move our lives forward.

775
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 14: And as I say, we have uncovered things that we

776
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 14: feel our violations that really need to be addressed before

777
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 14: a foreclosure could take place.

778
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 13: I can't really speak to your situation with your mortgage

779
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 13: service here. I think you'll have to continue to deal

780
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 13: with that and find a way to connect with the

781
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 13: appropriate individuals or to assert those claims in a proper forum.

782
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 13: This is generally not that forum in bankruptcy court. So

783
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 13: I'll answer you that with respect to the pendency of

784
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 13: the automatic stay, the court did take the extraordinary step

785
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 13: to temporarily extend that stay so that you could perfect

786
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 13: the papers, and unfortunately those things have not occurred, and

787
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 13: so this court can no longer continue to extend the

788
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 13: automatic stay. The Court's going to deny that requested relief.

789
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: They concluded the hearing by setting a deadline for Ron

790
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: and jan to submit their paperwork that includes a full

791
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: accounting of the GoFundMe. You'll hear Jennifer Giamo asking for clarification.

792
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: Jar and I just want to clarify for the record

793
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 3: the deadline by which the debtors need to provide our

794
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: office with number one, the accounting of all the GoFundMe

795
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 3: funds and to all of the documents that they are

796
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 3: on notice of being required to produce. May I suggest

797
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: that the deadline be set in the later than Friday,

798
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: July tenth, because that gives me sufficient opportunity to review

799
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: the documents before.

800
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 13: The meaning that is a week from this Friday, which

801
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 13: seems like it should be a sufficient amount of time. Okay,

802
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 13: all right, anything further from the parties, No, all right,

803
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 13: that'd be.

804
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 4: From the USST. Thank you, Erna, all right, thank you.

805
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: Weird journed to good luck.

806
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: As you heard, the month of July is going to

807
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: be a bumpy ride for Ron and jan They haven't

808
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: ntil July tenth to submit paperwork about the GoFundMe. Internet

809
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: detectives have been clamoring for transparency around that fundraiser for

810
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: years plus. Their house looks like it will be up

811
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: for foreclosure auction again at the end of July twenty

812
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: twenty six, and their due back in Judge Wansley's court

813
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 2: on August sixth. One of the questions that's gotten lost

814
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: in this story is the true status of Ron's health.

815
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: According to the GoFundMe, he has severe health problems, Parkinson's

816
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: cancer and heart issues. In many of the latest bankruptcy hearings,

817
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: he sounds very frail. Then on July fourth, just a

818
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 2: few days before I recorded this episode, Ron Owens posted

819
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: this patriotic message on Facebook.

820
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 15: Hey guys, my buddy here and I are hoping you

821
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 15: are enjoying the fourth of July. What you're doing, Maybe

822
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 15: going on out a bar you maybe going to a

823
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 15: baseball game, Go Giant, Maybe just sitting back and watching

824
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 15: TV and remembering this is the greatest country. Honor Happy

825
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 15: to fifty usday.

826
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: At the time I'm recording this, Laura's still living in

827
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: the Casida at her parents' house, the one they might lose.

828
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 2: And Laura's also got some big decisions to make this summer,

829
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: because at the end of August she'll be due in

830
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 2: court again for another settlement conference to discuss her plea

831
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: deal and hopefully come to a resolution on her fourteen

832
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 2: felony counts. If that all goes to plan, I'll be

833
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: there in person at the courthouse in Arizona with Clayton.

834
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: You'll hear from me after that, unless, of course, Laura

835
00:45:50,920 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: has something else in mind. Trat, Thank you so much

836
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on

837
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get

838
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,439
Speaker 2: your podcasts, and please leave us a review. A five

839
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for

840
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: your support. If you would like to reach out to

841
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: the Love Trapped team or have a similar story to share,

842
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: email us at Love Trapped pod at gmail dot com.

843
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: That's Love Trapped p o d at gmail dot com.

844
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division

845
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This

846
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and

847
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Ben Fetterman, Written, produced and hosted by me Stephanie Young.

848
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: Our story editor is Monique laboord producer on this episode

849
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: is Sidney Gladou. Additional production support from Todd Gans. Our

850
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 2: production manager is Kristin Melchiri. For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry

851
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McClain.

852
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Delvechio. Thank

853
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: you to our voice actor Olivia Hewitt. This podcast was

854
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and leb Abramoff at

855
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Speaker 2: cry Baby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by

856
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mybe Music. A special

857
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,960
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00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,040
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