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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridgett and this is

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. I am here

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Speaker 1: with my fantastic producer, Joey. Joey. How are you. How

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Speaker 1: was your holiday?

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Speaker 2: I bridge it, I'm doing good. My holiday was I

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Speaker 2: It's nice to have you know, a couple days own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, did you do anything fun?

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Speaker 3: Did I do sweete? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Actually I did a drag performance for this Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So they I'd been wanting to do for a bit.

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Speaker 2: And then my friend I had like a birthday party

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Speaker 2: for the weekend. It was like I want my friends

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Speaker 2: to do drag performances.

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Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, sure, why not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It was super fun. I totally totally want to do

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Speaker 2: that again. So goodway my drag debut, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I hope to many more. Also, happy birthday?

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Speaker 3: Oh no, my always my friend's birthday.

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Speaker 1: Friend's birthday got okay? Well, happy birthday to your friend.

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Speaker 1: Well let's get into some of these news stories that

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Speaker 1: folks might have missed on the Internet this week. So

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Speaker 1: first of all, we have to start with a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an update, which is an update on our

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Speaker 1: enemy of the pod Professional Litigate That's right, Edward Blum,

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Speaker 1: the one man wrecking ball against diversity. This week on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, I did a deep dive on the show

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Speaker 1: Stuff Mom Never Told You into Edward Blum's legal challenge

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Speaker 1: that he is bringing against the black venture capital firm

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Speaker 1: Fearless Fun for giving out grants and money and support

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Speaker 1: for black women entrepreneurs. After Blum successfully brought a legal

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Speaker 1: challenge that gutted the Voting Rights Act and Affirmative Action Well,

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Speaker 1: Blum is also challenging diversity fellowship programs for people of color,

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ folks, and people with disabilities at law firms, and

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Speaker 1: it looks like that challenge might have been somewhat successful,

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Speaker 1: at least with one law firm, because the law firm

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Speaker 1: Morrison and Forrester has removed language specifying that their fellowship

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Speaker 1: is only open to black, Hispanic, Native American or LGBTQ applicants,

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Speaker 1: according to a flyer from the program's website. Now the

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Speaker 1: flyer has been altered to say that applicants need to

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Speaker 1: quote bring a diverse perspective to the firm as a

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Speaker 1: result of your adaptability, cultural fluency, resilience and life experiences.

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Speaker 1: So luckily it doesn't sound like they are completely abandoning

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Speaker 1: the diversity part of their fellowship program outright, but that

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Speaker 1: they're probably changing the wording, probably because they're hoping to

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Speaker 1: avoid a big legal challenge or legal battle with Blum

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Speaker 1: and just want to be able to focus on doing

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Speaker 1: their work. The fellowship is called the Keith Wetmore one

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Speaker 1: L Fellowship for Excellence, Diversity and Inclusion, and it supported

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Speaker 1: law students from historically underrepresented groups in the legal industry.

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Speaker 1: It was also a recruitment tool to help diversify law firms,

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Speaker 1: which folks probably know are notoriously not very diverse. The

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Speaker 1: fellowship consists of a paid summer associate position, where and

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Speaker 1: law firms can often lead to a full time job

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Speaker 1: at pay in the six figures after graduation, and a

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars stipend. So way to go, Edward Blum.

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Speaker 1: I hope the fact that this law firm had to

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Speaker 1: amend their fellowship program is to your liking. I hope

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Speaker 1: it makes you feel good. I hope you will leave

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Speaker 1: these people alone. I hope you will let them just

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Speaker 1: do their jobs and we will keep y'all updated on

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Speaker 1: how these cases progress.

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Speaker 2: It's so messed up, and it's so like obviously messed

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Speaker 2: up that it's I don't even know what to say

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 1: Well, I often feel like like I think that you

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Speaker 1: might feel now, where I don't even know what to say.

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Speaker 1: I think that Blum is someone who will not rest

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Speaker 1: until a very small subsection of people him and people

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Speaker 1: who look like him or making all the decisions for everyone,

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Speaker 1: are the ones who are getting everything. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what his I think that's what he wants. And so

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Speaker 1: when I hear about the challenges that he is taking on,

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Speaker 1: it's hard for me to even really know what to say.

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Speaker 1: And in the episode of stuff I'm Never told you

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Speaker 1: that I did this week, something that really comes up

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Speaker 1: for me after doing all that that research into Blum

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Speaker 1: and his motivations and the people that he's suing, or

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Speaker 1: that these are people who are really have work to

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Speaker 1: do right, Like they are trying to write societal wrongs.

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Speaker 1: They are trying to make landscapes more equitable, and that

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Speaker 1: is real work, And so I can understand why this

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Speaker 1: legal firm is just like you know, if tweaking our

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Speaker 1: website language is gonna maybe make this guy go away.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. But they shouldn't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: They should be able to focus on what it is

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Speaker 1: that they are trying to accomplish with their work. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I Blum remains an enemy of the show. We will

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Speaker 1: keep folks posted on his next moves. Hopefully they won't

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Speaker 1: include continuing to go after marginalize people and the institutions

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Speaker 1: that support us.

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Speaker 3: I think that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, remember, for a while, there are all

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Speaker 2: these stories that were coming out about like people that

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Speaker 2: would like fake being Native American scholarship or like, there

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Speaker 2: were a couple of like really big cases of like

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Speaker 2: people that were like claiming to be like transracial or

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Speaker 2: something like. I don't know, it's it's interesting that this

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Speaker 2: is happening after I feel like we had a big

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Speaker 2: conversation about there was a big sort of media frenzy

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Speaker 2: around that. I don't know, it's just like it's the

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Speaker 2: same sort of attacking all of these programs from like

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Speaker 2: different angles, which I yeah, it's this.

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Speaker 3: Whole thing is so weird.

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Speaker 1: It's so weird. Wem is such a weird guy. If

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Speaker 1: folks are interested in more about him, his background, his motivation.

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Speaker 1: Check out this week's episode with me on stuff I'm

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Speaker 1: never told you because it is a doozy. So speaking

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Speaker 1: of supporting or not supporting marginalized people, we got to

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Speaker 1: talk about what's going on at Grinder. Folks probably know

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Speaker 1: there have been a florry of big companies making remote

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Speaker 1: workers come back to the office, like Google and ironically Zoom.

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Speaker 1: You know, Zoom makes the tech that we all use

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Speaker 1: to work remotely, but apparently won't let their staff work

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Speaker 1: remotely using the tech that they build. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a weird sitch, but employees who work

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Speaker 1: at the dating app Grinder are being forced to come

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Speaker 1: back to work in person, and now staff is saying

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Speaker 1: that that mandate, that policy has really delta blow to

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Speaker 1: Grinder's unique queer friendly workplace culture, which employees say was

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Speaker 1: a rarity in tech. This is all from Wired, which

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Speaker 1: today really great deep dive into what's going on since

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Speaker 1: many of Grinder's employees are LGBTQ. In person work policies

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Speaker 1: means having to give up access to support systems and

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Speaker 1: support networks and sometimes medical care networks that you've established

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Speaker 1: during a time where folks are seeing waves of anti

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Speaker 1: LGBTQU violence and threats across the country. Wire talked to

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Speaker 1: one trans employee that they call Robin, who said that

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Speaker 1: the mandate forced a choice between a job they loved

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Speaker 1: and a support system that includes trusted doctors who provide

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Speaker 1: their transgender medical care. Robin ultimately chose to leave the company.

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Speaker 1: Said that initially coming to work at Grinder was quote

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Speaker 1: a blast of fresh air compared to other jobs in

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Speaker 1: the tech industry. I felt normal. I didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: one queer person or the most noticeable queer person at

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Speaker 1: a company. It was what I was always looking for,

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Speaker 1: and now that is gone. Robin is actually not alone

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Speaker 1: because none of the eight openly trans employees who worked

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Speaker 1: at Grinder chose to re locate, and the trans staffer

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Speaker 1: that they spoke to said that it's really indicative of

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Speaker 1: the cuts and how they are impacting more marginalized staff

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Speaker 1: the most, Robin says, demanding that LGBTQ plus people move

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Speaker 1: for their job in this political environment conflicts with so

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Speaker 1: much of Grinder's mission that it's close to its users

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Speaker 1: that it's part of the community. This all started last month,

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Speaker 1: when Grinder abruptly gave its all remote staff two weeks

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Speaker 1: to pledge to work from an office two days a

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Speaker 1: week starting in October, or lose their jobs come August

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Speaker 1: thirty first, eighty two out of the one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy eight employees that's forty six percent of the staff,

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Speaker 1: or let go after rejecting that mandate. According to the

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Speaker 1: Grinder union, which went public tis two weeks before the ultimatum,

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Speaker 1: the policy would have forced many of them to relocate

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Speaker 1: to La Chicago or San Francisco. Now, this is all

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Speaker 1: happening against the backdrop of Grinder's recent unionization. The Communications

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Speaker 1: Workers of America, which now represents employees of Grinder, filed

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Speaker 1: two unfair labor practice charges with the US National Labor

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Speaker 1: Relations Board against Grinder, accusing the company of unlawfully suppressing

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Speaker 1: discussion of working conditions in company chats and through an

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Speaker 1: agreement that terminated employees were offered in exchange for Sefrance pay. Now,

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Speaker 1: Grinder does say that this abrupt back to office plan

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the recent unionization. That is

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Speaker 1: just a huge coincidence according to the Grinder's higher ups. However,

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Speaker 1: the staff says that the cuts disproportionately impacted union supporters.

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Speaker 1: Now out of the eleven union organized and committee members

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Speaker 1: were forced out. Staff is also worried about how this

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Speaker 1: will ultimately impact the site. Obviously, for dating apps and

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Speaker 1: hookup apps, privacy concerns are heightened. He's important on any

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Speaker 1: app or any platform, but especially an app where you're

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Speaker 1: meeting people, You're having intimate conversations, photos are being exchanged,

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Speaker 1: you're meeting up, that kind of thing. The exodus has

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Speaker 1: raised concerns among the remaining staff about Grinder's functionality as

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Speaker 1: an app. Were calling Elon Musk's employee project Twitter and

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Speaker 1: the ensuing glitchy chaos. So this really does seem to

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Speaker 1: be part of a larger pattern playing out within tech companies.

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Speaker 1: I know that this came up on one of our

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Speaker 1: previous newscasts, but Ben Collins at NBC calls this ceo contasion,

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Speaker 1: where there's this vibe of tech CEOs like cleaning house,

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Speaker 1: firing everybody, laying everybody off without real meaningful regard for

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Speaker 1: how it will impact the platforms that they run and

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Speaker 1: could ultimately make those platforms worse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, obviously, like this case is particularly sensitive

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Speaker 2: since so much of the employees there are like LGBTQ

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Speaker 2: plus identifying. Honestly, I'm surprised, not all of them, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: like I've I feel like this is part of a

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Speaker 2: pat I don't know, Like like my job, they're starting

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Speaker 2: to like open up the offices again and encourage people

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Speaker 2: like come back into the office. And I technically the

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Speaker 2: office I work for is in a different state than

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Speaker 2: I live in, so like I'm crossing my fingers hoping

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Speaker 2: in they're not gonna like mandate that anytime soon.

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Speaker 3: But it is so weird.

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Speaker 2: It's been three years where we've been working remotely and

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Speaker 2: things have been going pretty smoothly. It's definitely Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: like you said at the end there, like it is

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Speaker 2: this whole like CEO contagion about not really sure what

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Speaker 2: the I mean. I guess the motivation is to get

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Speaker 2: people to like whatever.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand this whole push all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: and it just seems like it's gonna end.

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Speaker 3: With a lot of chaos.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, Also, yeah, Grinder with the privacy thing, that's scary.

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Speaker 2: That's I mean, that's a hookup app like that isn't

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Speaker 2: especially like any dating app.

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Speaker 3: I'd be worried, but like Grinder especially.

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Speaker 1: It's not the kind of app where I would feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable showing up if they arbitrarily and phazardly gutted the

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Speaker 1: privacy and security staff. And it sounds like that's what

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Speaker 1: according to this Wired piece, that's what some of the

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Speaker 1: staff are worried about that if they just make these

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Speaker 1: massive cuts to the workforce in mass, like, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be that much harder to ensure a state and secure platform.

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Speaker 1: And when you're dealing with a hookup app, your people

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Speaker 1: on that app really need to be able to feel

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Speaker 1: like they're on a safe and secure platform.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I feel like this is just like a

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Speaker 2: good example of like rainbow capitalism still capitalism. Rainbow CEOs

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Speaker 2: are still CEOs. They're still gonna put their own interest first.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that's just that's that's messed up. I don't

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Speaker 2: know a ton about Grinder, like as an organization. I know,

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Speaker 2: like a couple of years back, there was some sort

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Speaker 2: of like discussion about like how trans people's experiences on

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Speaker 2: the app were and stuff like that. So again it's

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Speaker 2: like the if you know what they're like, the eight

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Speaker 2: openly trans employees like decided not to relocate, I mean,

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Speaker 2: how is that going to affect the app like not

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Speaker 2: having any trans people on the team of your or

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Speaker 2: maybe losing all the trans people on your team. That

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Speaker 2: just it doesn't seem like it's gonna.

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Speaker 1: En Well, yeah, that's such a good point. And the

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Speaker 1: trans employee that Wired spoke to, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on at Grinder, but it does sound

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Speaker 1: like if one demographic it's just like no longer represented

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Speaker 1: at your workforce. Management really has to ask how equitable

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Speaker 1: was were these layoffs, How equitable was this rollout if

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Speaker 1: it completely got rid of an entire sub section of

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Speaker 1: your workforce in that way, Like, it just seems to

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Speaker 1: me like obviously something's going on there. I think that

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Speaker 1: the staffer that they talked to who said that it

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Speaker 1: is impact these cuts are impacting the more marginalized staff more,

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Speaker 1: it seems obvious that that's the case. And so I'm

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Speaker 1: curious how it's going to work out. But I feel

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Speaker 1: for a staff who, like if in the piece they

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Speaker 1: talk about how this was rolled out very abruptly and

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Speaker 1: how for the last few months staff who worked remotely

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Speaker 1: were like, are we gonna have to come back to

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Speaker 1: the office and management was like, no, you'll be fine, no,

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Speaker 1: we're not. We have no plans to make that change.

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Speaker 1: And then coincidentally, after the unionization was successful, Now this

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Speaker 1: is like abruptly rolled out. And so yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: seems like a situation where management is really going out

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Speaker 1: of their way to roll out this policy in the

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Speaker 1: most abrupt chaotic way possible, possibly in retaliation for unionization

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Speaker 1: question mark. I don't know, but you know that timing

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Speaker 1: does seem awful coincidental to me.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: At our back. So I do want to balance as

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Speaker 1: scales a little bet. You know, we talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about corporations doing the wrong thing when it comes to

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Speaker 1: supporting marginalized staff. So it is nice to be able

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Speaker 1: to report on a company doing something kind of good

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Speaker 1: going in the opposite direction. Indeed, the online job search

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Speaker 1: company is offering ten thousand dollars to trans employees or

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Speaker 1: immediate family members if they need to move to escape

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Speaker 1: laws restricting trans healthcare. So them reports that they've actually

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Speaker 1: been doing this policy since July after employees expressed concern

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Speaker 1: over anti LGBTQ plus legislation in Texas and Florida. But

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Speaker 1: they're only now making this policy public. The relocation moneies

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Speaker 1: are being treated as a stipend, and indeed it's also

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Speaker 1: covering any taxes on that money, which is pretty important. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: it's already provided that support to at least one worker,

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Speaker 1: a senior content creator who moved from Texas to Colorado

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Speaker 1: not long after indeed announce the initiative. As soon as

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Speaker 1: I found out that I was getting the money, it

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Speaker 1: was very much like a weight had been lifted, the

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Speaker 1: employee told Bloomberg. Them reports that indeed is not alone.

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Speaker 1: This is actually a slow trend of companies offering this

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Speaker 1: kind of support to staff. Financial software company into it

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Speaker 1: offers real Q money, and even the Air Force. And

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Speaker 1: now it's that they would help trans service members and

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Speaker 1: their families relocate if they are stationed in states with

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Speaker 1: discriminatory laws. Obviously, I, as you were saying earlier, Joey, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of like, oh well, now

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Speaker 1: trans folks can like join the military industrial complex too, right,

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Speaker 1: But you know, it is what it is. You gotta

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Speaker 1: take what you gotta take what you can get. And

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Speaker 1: I guess I feel like I don't know. It is

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Speaker 1: a bummer that we live in a reality where this

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Speaker 1: kind of policy is necessary, but that is the reality

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Speaker 1: that we live in. And even though I obviously think

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Speaker 1: this is great, everybody deserves to live in a place

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Speaker 1: where they can have access to whatever medical care they need,

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Speaker 1: and everybody deserves to live places where policies are not

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Speaker 1: hostile to their very existence. And so I am really

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Speaker 1: happy that people have access to this relocation support. But

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be a luxury just for people who have

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Speaker 1: like good office jobs. It should really be for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Actually be the bottom bare minimum that people can expect.

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Speaker 2: Right. I think that's the one thing that kind of

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Speaker 2: concerns me about this, because I remember seeing this article

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Speaker 2: that or an article about it and being it was

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Speaker 2: the same thing. I was like, Wow, that's really cool.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I'm just like a skeptic When

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Speaker 2: I was sort of like this seems I feel like,

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Speaker 2: a are they going to actually do this or are

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Speaker 2: they just saying they are?

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Speaker 3: So it's good to hear that. I guess they've They've

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Speaker 3: done it in.

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Speaker 2: One case now, But I feel like what the people

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Speaker 2: that I'm more worried about is like, like, who is.

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Speaker 3: It who is this open to?

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Speaker 2: Because again, like if you're working like a service job

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Speaker 2: in like Texas or Florida where you're not making a

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Speaker 2: lot of money or like living paycheck to paycheck. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're probably going to be the one in the most

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Speaker 2: danger of living under these policies and how they're going

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Speaker 2: to affect you, Like is that covered in it? Which

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Speaker 2: is not to say again like obviously I had my

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Speaker 2: little office that office job because I don't have an

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Speaker 2: office right now, Like it's important that everybody's that kind

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Speaker 2: of respect and help.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's I don't know, I am cautiously

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Speaker 3: optimistic about this.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a it's good to see that like

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Speaker 2: a company is doing something at least.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your concern is definitely well founded. I want to

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Speaker 1: say it was Netflix, I'll have to look it up.

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Speaker 1: But so when Netflix rolled out this very generous, unlimited

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Speaker 1: prontal leave program, they got so much good press, lots

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Speaker 1: of applause. However, they had one big problem because that

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Speaker 1: program was only for full time staff. It did not

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Speaker 1: include part time staff. It did not include folks who

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Speaker 1: were working in their DVD distribution centers. So this was

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Speaker 1: back when Netflix still had those DVDs and the sleeves

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Speaker 1: they would send out and so yeah, I'm with you, Joey.

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Speaker 1: Whenever I see policies like this, I hope that it's

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Speaker 1: just not for like, oh, for our office workers, as

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Speaker 1: people like to say on the internet, people who have

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Speaker 1: the email jobs quote unquote. But I hope it's truly

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Speaker 1: for everybody who works there, not just a certain subs

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Speaker 1: section of people who get access to this.

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Speaker 2: I like the the email jobs because I feel like

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Speaker 2: I've been having a hard time befriends. Like who again

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Speaker 2: back to the other story, like I don't work get

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Speaker 2: an office. I actually visited the iHeart office for the first.

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Speaker 1: Time, the one in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, the one in there's one in New York. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I haven't meant at the Atlanta one.

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Speaker 2: Yet, but I was like that, this is the first

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Speaker 2: time since I was like interning that I've been inside

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Speaker 2: of an office. But yeah, it's again. Yeah, I good friend. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear this. I hope they follow through

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Speaker 2: with it. I guess, you know, well, we keep an

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Speaker 2: eyes on the story, see what happens.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the Air Force thing too, I'm a little

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Speaker 3: that I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's whenever the military comes up, it's so complicated because

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Speaker 2: there is a whole history of like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of trans people who have been in the military or

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Speaker 2: are in the military.

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Speaker 3: Just kind of.

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Speaker 2: And and again because I remember when when all this

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Speaker 2: happened with like the Trump administration banning trans people from

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Speaker 2: doing the military, there was discussion about like access to

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Speaker 2: like benefits and stuff and all that's important.

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Speaker 3: That being said, I'm not willing.

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Speaker 2: To I don't know, I'm always gonna sort of take

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Speaker 2: a step back, I think when it comes to military

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Speaker 2: stuff and just yeah, I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: where this is going.

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Speaker 1: Joey pat hates the troops. No, just kidding. So important

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Speaker 1: question for you. Do you drive a car? You live

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Speaker 1: in New York, Probably don't you.

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Speaker 2: I mean I don't. I like, I have my driver's license,

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Speaker 2: I have driven. I like drove my family's car when

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Speaker 2: I was home. But yeah, currently do not own a car.

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Speaker 2: Uh don't really have a reason too.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's actually good news for you because if you

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Speaker 1: drive a newer car, I have some bad news, which

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Speaker 1: is that your car is probably spying on you in

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Speaker 1: addition to collecting data about you, like normal car data

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Speaker 1: like whether you drive too fast or if you were,

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Speaker 1: your seatbelt or whatever. Your car might actually know who

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Speaker 1: you have sex with. This is according to a new

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Speaker 1: report from Mozilla. Just full quick disclosure, I do host

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Speaker 1: Mozilla's podcast IRL about AI and ethics. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to say that.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Mozilla's Privacy Not Included project found that every major car

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Speaker 1: brand fails to adhere to the most basic privacy and

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Speaker 1: security standards in their new internet connected models. All twenty

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Speaker 1: five of the car brands that Mozilla examines failed their test.

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Speaker 1: Mozilla found that major car brands collect data about their drivers,

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Speaker 1: including race, facial expressions, weight, health informations, and where you drive. Now,

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Speaker 1: all of that might seem like pretty reasonable information for

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Speaker 1: your car to collect about you, but this is really wild.

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Speaker 1: Some of the cars tested collected data that you would

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Speaker 1: not expect your car to be able to collect about you,

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Speaker 1: including details about your sexual activity, race, and immigration status.

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Speaker 1: According to Mozilla, key privacy policy reserves the right to

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Speaker 1: monitor quote your sex life. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know how I feel about my car

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Speaker 1: knowing about my sex life.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, yeah, wait did they explain how they do this?

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Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna do it, but like I are there

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Speaker 2: like cameras in the car that are this is so

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Speaker 2: that's so freaky. That is so I have so many questions.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really good question. According to the report,

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Speaker 1: a lot of these newer cars have come enabled with

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Speaker 1: like cameras in them, with microphones in them. They have

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Speaker 1: like hands free technology where you can talk to the cars,

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Speaker 1: and so the cars have microphones and they can hear

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Speaker 1: conversations happening in there. And so yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: we don't usually think of a car as collecting information

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Speaker 1: about us as we're driving, But that's what's happening.

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Speaker 3: That's so, that's so freaking. I just okay, I'm always

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Speaker 3: really behind on my TV.

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Speaker 2: Should I just watched the new Black Mirror, like the

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Speaker 2: first episode with what's her face Alexis from Shitzkrieg and

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Speaker 2: I and I that was so freaky.

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Speaker 3: I just this.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of this because I'm like, oh, there's so

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Speaker 2: many things that are just yeah, that's oh my god.

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Speaker 1: That was my favorite episode of the new season.

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Speaker 3: It was good.

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Speaker 1: I reference it quite a bit. So Jen call to

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Speaker 1: writer program director of Privacy Not Included, shares your disbelief

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Speaker 1: of that this is happening Jen says many people think

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Speaker 1: of their car as a private space, somewhere to call

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Speaker 1: your doctor, have a personal conversation with your kid on

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Speaker 1: the way to school, cry your eyes out after a breakup,

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, have I been there? Or drive places that

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Speaker 1: you might not want the world to know about. But

437
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: that perception no longer matches reality. All new cars today

438
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: are privacy nightmares on wheels that collect huge amounts of

439
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: personal information.

440
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: Okay.

441
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: One thing that I do I love just like you know,

442
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: every once in a while, you just gotta like scream

443
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: and like I'll go to like if I'm have access

444
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: to a car, like if I've ever heard how I

445
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: was Like, sometimes I'll just like sit in the car

446
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: like scream and I'm like, oh my god, favorite now home,

447
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: like going over.

448
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm said, well, how new was your parents car?

449
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: I think it's about seven years old, so like twenty

450
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: sixty to twenty seventeen.

451
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you might be Okay, you might be Okay. This

452
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: this whole thing makes me happy. I mean, I I

453
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 1: barely drive. I don't I think I'd probably drive like

454
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: once a month. But my car is a like fifteen

455
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: year old clunker, So it makes me kind of happy,

456
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't. I still have to do the thing where

457
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: you plug in like a Bluetooth receiver into the ox

458
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: Core into the ox Sport to like listen to music

459
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: on my phone if I want to like listen to

460
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: something that's not the radio. So it is very janky,

461
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,479
Speaker 1: it is very old school, doesn't have GPS, isn't bet anything.

462
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: But as janky as it is, at least I don't

463
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: have to worry about my car listening to me talk

464
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: to my doctor on the phone, or like have an

465
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: argument with my partner. I'd be like, oh, it looks

466
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: like she's arguing about finances. Let's send her some ads

467
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 1: about car refinancing or whatever.

468
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: I feel like there's always you always have such emotional

469
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: conversations in cars too. I don't know if it's I

470
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: don't know if you do this too, but like, I

471
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: feel like I've had a lot of very especially like

472
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: as a teenager, a lot like it would be like

473
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: a friend would be dropping me off, or I'd be

474
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 2: having like a really dramatic conversation with my.

475
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: Parents or something, and it's just I don't know, that's yeah, well.

476
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: I think you're right, I do. I don't even know

477
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: how to put this. I spent a summer living in

478
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: LA and so when I was in La, I had

479
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: a car, and I probably had it was it was

480
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: a tough summer for me, and I probably had most

481
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: of my intimate moments, like where I was questioning myself

482
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: or having tough conversations with friends and family in the car,

483
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: Like the car is feels like an intimate space. It

484
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: feels like a private space. How many times have you

485
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: taken a long drive and done or said things that

486
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: you would that you thought were just between you and

487
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, just you and your God, right, Like the

488
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: idea that the car is listening, the car is collecting

489
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: that information, the car is using it to serve you

490
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: targeted as these conversations and these moments that were happening

491
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: in a place that felt so private and so intimate

492
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: and so sacred, it's just not a good situation. Mozilla

493
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: said that a number of car brands say that it

494
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: is the driver's responsibility to let passengers know about their

495
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: car's privacy policies, which you know, because that's a totally

496
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: normal conversation that you have when somebody gets in your car.

497
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: When you get into a car, it's a totally normal

498
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: thing to be like, oh, let me just quickly brief

499
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: you on my car's privacy policy so that you're aware

500
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: of them. That is an absurd standard they have to

501
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: opt people into. That's an absurd way to handle people

502
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: being having to opt into this, or you know, when

503
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: you get into an uber or a taxi cab, Like,

504
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: how is that handled? And even beyond that, that doesn't

505
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: really help because these policies are always inscrutable in the

506
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: first place. So if it is your responsibility as a

507
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: driver or the owner of this car to tell people

508
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: about the privacy policy that you didn't set up when

509
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: somebody gets into your car, how can you do that

510
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: if they're written in such a way that it's intentionally

511
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: inscrutable to the point where you can't even summarize what

512
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: the policies are. Like, one of the car brands they

513
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: talked about had twelve different privacy policies, So how the

514
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: hell are you meant to be letting somebody know about

515
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: your car's privacy policies if you can't even understand them.

516
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it all of us feels like letting somebody into

517
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: your house and being like, oh, sorry, by the way,

518
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: if you like.

519
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: Talk about x things. There's like a little I don't

520
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: know which I.

521
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: Guess some people have like Alexis and stuff now, so

522
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: I don't know who knows what that's doing.

523
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, man, there's just this. There's no privacy anymore.

524
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: It's scary, not even in the ride.

525
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break.

526
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Ed are back. Okay, So this is a story happening

527
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: in your neck of the woods, Joey, because short term

528
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: rentals like Airbnb and verbo are basically over in New

529
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 1: York City thanks to new regulations. So last week, new

530
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: rules said that rentals shorter than thirty days are not

531
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: allowed unless the hosts registered with the city. Hosts must

532
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: also commit to being physically present in the home during

533
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: the duration of the rental, sharing the living quarters with

534
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: their guests. More than two guests at a time are

535
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: not allowed, so in effect kind of barring families from

536
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: doing short term rentals like Airbnb in New York City.

537
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: So that was last week. Well, this week that went

538
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: into effect, and The Guardian reports that not many hosts

539
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: were able to comply with registering with the city, so

540
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: Airbnb is not allowed to process those rentals. Very few

541
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: hosts had successfully registered and New York City says that

542
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: it approved just under three hundred of the more three

543
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: eight hundred applications received now. Housing advocates say that the

544
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: apartments were basically being used as hotels, which is a

545
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: big problem in a city like New York where there

546
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: is very much, you know, as I'm sure you know,

547
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: an active housing crisis.

548
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Arabnb does not get enough crop for like

549
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: the way that they have contributed to the housing crisis

550
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: and so many major cities like all over the world.

551
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: I like, I remember talking to like somebody who lived

552
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: in like Florence and Italy that it was like the

553
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: same situation they were talking about, how like, and that

554
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: that's like a huge tourist city, and that part of

555
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: the reason that it's impossibly going to have like an

556
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: apartment there now is just Airbnb has gotten so many

557
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: apartments New York.

558
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: Same thing.

559
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: Does concern me a little because I do think I

560
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: have a friend who's staying in New York next week

561
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: who has an Airbnb, so I probably should.

562
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: Check in with her.

563
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Check in on your friend.

564
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, But I mean I am glad that's that

565
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: they're they're cracking down on that because it's it's out

566
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: of control.

567
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: I completely agree. Airbnb is fighting these new rules in court,

568
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: arguing that they are essentially a ban on Airbnb and

569
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: that they would hurt this looking for affordable accommodations. So

570
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: I actually say, Airbnb, I have a little bit of

571
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: firsthand knowledge, and I'll say this, they are very good

572
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: at this kind of thing. So I honestly would not

573
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: be surprised if this policy was short lived in New

574
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: York City. I hope it's not short lived, but I

575
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: would not be surprised because Airbnb is very good at

576
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. So here's a little bit about

577
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: what you can probably expect. You can expect to see

578
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: them really highlighting the local people who they say are

579
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: just like local community members making extra income by welcoming

580
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: in travelers on a budget into their spare bedrooms. You know,

581
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: it's all like Nanna and pop pop who just want

582
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: to make their lasagna for somebody from out of town. Like,

583
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: definitely they're going to make that or try to make

584
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: that the face of like who's being hurt by this

585
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: Airbnb crept down, So they're not going to tell you

586
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: about the company or the wealthy landlord who has bought

587
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: up multiple properties the a that would be available housing

588
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: and has turned them into hotels for people they probably

589
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: will never even meet. No, they will not tell you

590
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: about that. They will definitely be trotting out like Nana

591
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: and Pop Pop and telling you how this is like

592
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: hurting your like local community members. Again, I can tell

593
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: you from personal experience. And Airbnb hires what they call

594
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: community organizers to help create what I would argue is

595
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: like an astro turf movement specifically to represent their corporate interests,

596
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: but then make that seem like a completely grassroots collection

597
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: of just like concern community members sticking up for their communities.

598
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I again like, even though I'm complaining about AIRBNBA,

599
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: I've stayed in Airbnb's a couple of times, and I

600
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: think honestly most of it, especially if it's like me

601
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: and my friends traveling where we're like on a tight

602
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: budget a lot of times, like it's a company that

603
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: we're reaching out to. It's not like locals or whatever.

604
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: They're trying to like position themselves. As I it is

605
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: very weird because also I remember like when Airbnb was

606
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: first like becoming a thing, that was how they were

607
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: marketing themselves. It was like it's a you know, same

608
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 2: sort of like Uber where it was like just sharing

609
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: rights or sharing living space for the you know week

610
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: or whatever. But it's yeah, the whole community organizers thing too.

611
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: That's so vile just to especially like, I don't know,

612
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: if you're looking at like again, if you're looking at

613
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: like a job site and you see community organizer, I

614
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: think you're expecting a very, very different job than working

615
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: for Airbnb.

616
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I completely completely agree. I don't want to

617
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: say anything that, I don't want to say anything wrong.

618
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: I'll just say that I used to work for an

619
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: organization that provided free or low cost digital training for

620
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: progressive organizers, real organizers, and we did that. It was

621
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: usually a network of volunteers, and that was done out

622
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: of the desire to build social change, to build up

623
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: the lefts you know, muscle, and in order to create

624
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: social change. And imagine my surprise when some of those

625
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: folks took that training that was given, you know, from

626
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: the goodwill of our of our time and labor, to

627
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: Airbnb to to do community to do quote community organizing.

628
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I I I guess I'll just leave

629
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: it there. It was a it was a it was

630
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: a surprising turnative events. Folks were not thrilled that that happened.

631
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Airbnb is so good at this. They're

632
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: so like, I I gotta give props or prompts are due.

633
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: I They're like, if you were not a savvy person

634
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: and you were looking at the people who are probably

635
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: opposing this legislation in New York, you would think this

636
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: is just like community members who are speaking out. But

637
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: Airbnb they're really good at that. They really know what

638
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: they're doing. And yeah, I'm I should say like the

639
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: same as you. I don't. It's not like I don't

640
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: use Airbnb, but I try to use it sparingly and

641
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: I try to just be very aware, like it would

642
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: be It's one of those things where it would be

643
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: nice if I could be like, oh, I'm just staying

644
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: with like somebody who has a spare bedroom in their house,

645
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: and like, you know, this is just like she's getting

646
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: extra money. I'm getting to eat the fresh bake cookies

647
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: that she's making me. This is all great, but that's

648
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: not what it is in twenty twenty three. What it

649
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: is in twenty twenty three is like generally somebody who

650
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: is running airbnbes as a business, it is usually not

651
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: their their their home that they're letting you into. It

652
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: is like maybe at best it is their vacation home

653
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: or something like that, but generally it's a business. And

654
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: so I just wish that we could we could talk

655
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: about it in reality and not in this way that

656
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: it's just like a fantasy. Again, I think that you're

657
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: right that it started that way. My very first time

658
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: ever staying in an Airbnb, this was like when the

659
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: company first got started, I was staying on somebody's couch

660
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: in the house that they lived in with their family,

661
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: and it very much was like I'm just crashing here.

662
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: But that certainly isn't what it's like in a meaningful

663
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: way in twenty twenty three.

664
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there was.

665
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: There was like one time when I was I was

666
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: in Amsterdam with some friends that we were like staying

667
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: at somebody's apartment that it was like there's it actually

668
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: was like a spavorite, spare bedroom and they were super

669
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: nice and like you know, gave.

670
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 3: Us recommendations of places to go and stuff.

671
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's I don't know the last like airbnb

672
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: that I've stayed in again, it was I didn't book

673
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: it a friend and I'm not sure what the situation was,

674
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: but like there was an ant infestation in the house.

675
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: It was terrible. It was terrible experience. So I'm still

676
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: I met at Airbnb about that experience anyways.

677
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: But.

678
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: Are you one of those people who was like, oh,

679
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: it's hotels all day. I'll never stayed on Airbnb if

680
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: I don't have to.

681
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 2: I try to, Like I don't do as much traveling now,

682
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: just kind of at this point in my life. But

683
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: I like, usually if I am I'm going to visit people,

684
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 2: so I'll go like crash at their place. But yeah,

685
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: I usually like try to go for a hotel. You

686
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: know they're gonna clean. You know they're gonna clean the

687
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: room every day. It's like nice.

688
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: I like that. That's a nice part about traveling.

689
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: And you don't like The thing that gets me about

690
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: airbnbes and this if there's been a whole if folks

691
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: haven't seen there's been a hole back and forth of

692
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: like airbnbes were just hotels. One of the things is

693
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: like with Arabian bees, there was a time where their

694
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: fees were just out of control, where you'd be paying

695
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: like a cleaning fee but also get a list of

696
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: shores to do, so you'd be like, why am I

697
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: paying this cleaning fee if I'm doing the laundry and

698
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: like meant to be sweeping up?

699
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. I was like, I don't know.

700
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 3: Maybe if I'm on vacation, I want to be in

701
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: a hotel. I don't want to be doing any of

702
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: the work.

703
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: That's totally fair. Okay, So why don't you ask me

704
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: what our favorite person is up to these days?

705
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 4: All right?

706
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 3: So, oh, I know where.

707
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: This is going. I bet you can already tell.

708
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts on this. It

709
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 3: is what's Elon up to?

710
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: Now?

711
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: Well, I spent my labor day on vacation at the beach.

712
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: Elon Musk spent his labor day being very anti Semitic.

713
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: He spent this week fighting with the head of the

714
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: Anti Defamation League because the ADL is basically telling the

715
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: truth to advertisers about the rise of anti Semitic hate

716
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: speech on the platform since Elon Musk took over. Musk

717
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: accused the ADL of being quote the biggest generators of

718
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: anti semitism on Twitter and threatened a four billion dollar

719
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: lawsuit against them, saying that they were scaring away advertisers.

720
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: So it should be said that per Twitter's own metrics,

721
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: her own API, the use of anti Semitic hate speech

722
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: has has risen since Elon must took over. It's just

723
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: a fact. But you don't have to have access to

724
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: that data, nor do you have to be the head

725
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: of the ADL. To see that this is true. All

726
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: you have to do is follow Elon Musk on Twitter

727
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: and see the kinds of things he tweets and the

728
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: kinds of tweets that he engages with. Elon's brand of

729
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: anti Semitism, I would say, like previously was sort of

730
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: loosely coded. He would use like George Sorows or the ADL,

731
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: or like people who control the media, like pretty big

732
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: dog whistle as a stand in to denigrate Jewish people.

733
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: So this is not new for him at all. This

734
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: has been a long standing pattern of behavior with Musk,

735
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: but I think that more recently anti Semitism has gotten

736
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: more overt, engaging with tweets that straight up attack Jewish

737
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: people as a whole. He replied with an exclamation point

738
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: to this tweet that purported to show that like he

739
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: replied to a tweet from a white supremacist that purported

740
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: to show a poll showing that Jewish people hated free speech.

741
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: So I would argue that he is someone who is

742
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: always trafficked in anti semitism, but it's it's especially concerning

743
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: that it seems to be getting more and more overt

744
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: and less and less coded.

745
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as a Jew who controls the media, I'm.

746
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 3: So excited at this podcast.

747
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously it's you know, Oh God, I'm so glad

748
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: we're talking about this story.

749
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 3: I have so many thoughts on this.

750
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 2: So, like first things first, I will say upfront, ADL

751
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 2: not necessarily a good organization. Their platform, their well, they're

752
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: their idea what they market themselves out, which again is

753
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: like an an anti hate speech, fighting anti semitism, fighting bigotry.

754
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: There's a lot of criticisms of the organization itself. They've

755
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: done a lot of things in the past. They've designated

756
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: certain groups as being anti Semitic that weren't anti Semitic.

757
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 2: They were more just sort of like critical of Israel

758
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: or anti Zionist, which is not the same thing as

759
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: anti semitism. That is a very valid political opinion. Again,

760
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 2: I'm not a out of the ADL.

761
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: They are.

762
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: I disagree with the organization fundamentally in a lot of things.

763
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: I think they've actually done a lot of shit that's

764
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: been sort of like detrimental to a lot of anti racist,

765
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: anti anti bigotry, even like anti anti Semitism sort of movements.

766
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 3: That being said, like the criticism is clearly like this

767
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: is this is a.

768
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: Situation where they're going after this organization for being a

769
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: Jewish organization, for being a group that speaks out against

770
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: anti Semitism. I recently, it was it was probably like

771
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: a month or two ago, the CEO of the ADL,

772
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: Jonathan green Blatt said in an interview. He compared he

773
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: said that Elon Musk is like the Henry Ford of

774
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: our generation, which also is really ironic because Henry Ford

775
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 2: was like notoriously anti Semitic. So I was like, I

776
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: don't know, like like if somebody called somebody like the

777
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: Henry Ford off something to me, I would be like, okay,

778
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: so they're a piece of shit, Like I don't know.

779
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: Anyways, he meant it as a compliment.

780
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: So I think this is a good example of like

781
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: again so called like human rights organizations, if you're gonna

782
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: like use your time and your energy and your platform

783
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: to like cheer on people who have this history of

784
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: going against other marginalized groups that aren't your own, Like

785
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 2: they're gonna come after you too, Like you're just setting

786
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: your like I don't know, like that they're not gonna save.

787
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: You, surprise.

788
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: I just this whole situation there's again it's so messed

789
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: up because you know, you know that mean, that's like

790
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: the worst person, you know a great point.

791
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a virsion of that where it's like.

792
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm defending the ad L of all

793
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: things like I but yeah, it's it's like nobody again,

794
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: I might disagree with some of their platform, but nobody

795
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: should be attacked for just being a Jewish organization.

796
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: And also the whole idea of like the anel contributed

797
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: being the most anti s about it. I don't know

798
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 3: that it is so weird that it is so weird.

799
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are like I mean, I I it's it's complicated,

800
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: and I appreciate the nw ones that you're bringing to it.

801
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: Elon must saying that the ADL is the most is

802
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: spreading the most anti Semitism. There are people on the

803
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: platform who tweet swastikas, like there are people on the

804
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: platform who like, so that's just like not true, and

805
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: it's so funny that you're saying this. The critic Mark

806
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: Lamont Hill, who Mark Lemont Hill like he is someone

807
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: who has been very open about the fact that he

808
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: feels like he was like personally attacked by the ADL,

809
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: And even even.

810
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, and again this is just my opinion,

811
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: but I'm Jewish. I was, you know, very involved in

812
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: a lot of Jewish activists spaces around what that was happening,

813
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: like he was attacked, but yeah.

814
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: And yet even he this week was like Elon Musk,

815
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: what Elon Musk is doing with the ADL is anti Semitic.

816
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: And it's not like he was like, I am someone

817
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: who is attacked by them, and even I can say, like,

818
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: what's happening is really fucked up, And so it is.

819
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: It is this very interesting moment in time, I guess where.

820
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: And honestly, the ad L when it comes to this

821
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: Elon must situation, they didn't really have to do anything

822
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: to to like get Elon Musk to go off on

823
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: this string of anti Semitic behavior and comments like I

824
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: don't know if he is trying to.

825
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: I always say it didn't he like compare George Sorows

826
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: to like Magneto.

827
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: Or he sure did, he sure did.

828
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 3: Which also I'm a big xpen fan Magneto.

829
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: Excuse you, excuse you?

830
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 3: Like so no, no, no, like that's a favorable comparison.

831
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, like this is.

832
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: This has been an ongoing thing. He's said a lot

833
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: of anti spotics off.

834
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: And yet to be clear, Like I think I think

835
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: we did an episode about this. It might have been

836
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: on the Patron but regardless, like it's one thing to

837
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: be critical of, like like Sorows is a very wealthy,

838
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: well connected, you know, influential person in politics. It's one

839
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: thing to be like, oh I am critic all of

840
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: George Soros's policies of XYZ or like his positions on

841
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: x y Z. It's quite another to compare him to

842
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: Magneto like that is and so like if you like,

843
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: I think that with Musk, he's really cool. He previously

844
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: he was like good at staying like keeping it coded,

845
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: keeping it a dog whistle. And the fact that now

846
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: he's like no, it's just open, like it just signals

847
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: to me that there's been a shift and a change,

848
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: and it really concerns me for the state of Twitter.

849
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: I don't remember, Joey, are you still on the platform?

850
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: A is it a platform that you engage engage on?

851
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: I have an account, I don't use it a ton anymore,

852
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: but like, I'm still.

853
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: On it and I'm hanging on.

854
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: I'm trying to see how long till the website.

855
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 3: Collapses on itself.

856
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: But it's it's been such a shit show lately, Like

857
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: it hasn't been fun to be on the platform.

858
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: So it does seem like we've hit a new moment

859
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 1: with Twitter where folks are just really starting to see

860
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: just what you said that it's just not fun, it's

861
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: not pleasant. Civil society groups are pushing to get advertisers

862
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: to stop spending money advertising on Twitter. I actually did

863
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: a pretty personal deep dive into my own relationship with

864
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: Twitter on Patreon, where I heard from folks who similarly

865
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: are feeling a little bit weird about our relationship with

866
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: the platform in this specific moment, but who also feel

867
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: it as a deep loss. Roe, who gave me permission

868
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: to share this, wrote, I keep having this conversation with myself.

869
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: I only keep it because of the community connections that

870
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: will be lost if I leave, but so many are

871
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: already gone. I run a mutual Aid meal delivery in

872
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: my city and one weekend we had extra food. While

873
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: I was delivering, I pulled over and tried to reach

874
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: a single mom I know only through Twitter to offer

875
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: to drop by. She's left the platform and I have

876
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: no means to contact her. Now. Twitter was so important

877
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 1: when Ottawa was overrun by the Freedom in Quotes Convoy

878
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: last year. I don't know where we could share information

879
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: this at the same scale now. So the too long

880
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: Didn't Read is that I stay on Twitter out of

881
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: fear and I'm incredibly resentful that an awful man broke

882
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: a critical resource for my community. And boy, roe did

883
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: I identify with that? That is exactly how I am feeling.

884
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm really wrestling with a lot of that same stuff

885
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: of like, this used to be a resource that was good.

886
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: It wasn't perfect, it had its problems. If folks want to,

887
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: I will talk all day about some of the issues

888
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: I had with pre musk Twitter. But something about this

889
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: week just I was like, this is just not fun.

890
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: It's not pleasant. I don't enjoy showing up here. The

891
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: example that I gave on the Patreon was I was

892
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: having a conversation with somebody about Bravo's Real House Bars

893
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, and I don't probably I don't know if

894
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: you watched the show, but like this season hasn't been great.

895
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: And somebody was like, oh, who would be a grave

896
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: if you were doing a cast a casting, who would

897
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: you cast? And somebody was like, T Madison, who is

898
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: this black trans woman like Blugger and contact creator. I

899
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, Tea Madison will be amazing.

900
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: Why didn't that occur to me? Like she's so funny,

901
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: she's so good at like clapp m back blah blah blah.

902
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: Love Team Madison. And it didn't take long until people

903
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: with blue check marks were intentionally misgendering Team Madison, calling

904
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: like dead naming Team Madison. And this was just like

905
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: a fun conversation about a television show. And it's like,

906
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: that's it's not pleasant to show up to a platform

907
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: and try to have a like fun light conversation and

908
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: then next thing you know, you're like someone is intentionally

909
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: dead naming and misgendering somebody. It's no longer against Twitter's

910
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: terms of service to do that, because that was one

911
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: of the things that Elon Musk one of the policies

912
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: that he changed, but the first thing that he did,

913
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: and you know, the whole conversation turned into people being like,

914
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: this is fucked up, don't do this, and then people

915
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: being like saying transphobic things, and it's like, we can't

916
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: even have a conversation about Bravo Housewives without this nonsense.

917
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: It's just not good, doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel fun,

918
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: and I don't feel good knowing that I am supporting

919
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: Elona Musk and helping to make the platform look like

920
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: it's still viable by showing up there.

921
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, and I feel like, especially

922
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: what Roward said, just feeling resentful that again, feeling resentful

923
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: that this man like broke Twitter, and sort of almost

924
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: feeling like like I feel like at this point, I'm

925
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: kind of staying on out of spite, Like I'm sort

926
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: of like, no, like you can't scare me away, Like no,

927
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: first staying here, but yeah, it's I then it's but

928
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 2: then yeah, the other side is like it's it's not

929
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 2: usable anymore. I not seeing my friend's posts. I'm yeah,

930
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of just blue check mark stuff. I also, yeah,

931
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: like Twitter was, especially during like the height of the

932
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: pandemic when stuff is on lockdown, Like that was.

933
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 3: How I was staying connected to people.

934
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: I was still in college at the beginning of the pandemic,

935
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: and and like we were using Twitter to like get

936
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 2: mutual aid to people and help people like get information

937
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: that like the school was not telling us get informat.

938
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: That's how I was able to get like my vaccination

939
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: appointment where that was first happening.

940
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: Sam was crazy. He was trying to get like my

941
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: vaccine in New York.

942
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: It's such a it has become such an important tool,

943
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: and it's just it's so sad to like see this happening.

944
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: It is sad. I should mention. While all of this

945
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: was going down, Twitter's CEO maybe CEO, Linda Yakarino, while

946
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: Elon Musk was like engaging with anti Semitism and all

947
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: of that, she was busy tweeting did somebody say sport

948
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: after a huge Labor Day weekend? Ex video views continue

949
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: to search above last year. So, while Linda Yakarino, as

950
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: supposedly the CEO of Twitter, was saying all of this

951
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: stuff about how Twitter is now advertiser friendly, brand friendly,

952
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,479
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. My question for Linda Yakarino is how

953
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: does Elon Musk tweeting all of this anti Semitic nonsense

954
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: squared with her publicly stated intention to make Twitter a

955
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: place where brands want to show up and want to

956
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: spend money in advertising. I'm curious, Like, if I were

957
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: the CEO of a company and my head of engineering

958
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: was tweeting like this, I might have something to say

959
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: about it, But not Linda. I'm so curious what's going

960
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: on there. So yeah, if folks want to know my

961
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: thoughts on the should I stay or should I go?

962
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: Of it all? Please check out our patreon. And I

963
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: also would love to hear where folks are at with Twitter,

964
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: like are you still there? Have you left?

965
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 4: Are you?

966
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: What are the vibes like for you? Let me know,

967
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: I would love to know.

968
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 4: More. After a quick.

969
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 5: Break, let's get right back into it.

970
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So this last story is really just like a

971
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: story tailor made for me, so hopefully it is interesting

972
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 1: to others as well, because I was like very invested,

973
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: and that is that something is rotten over at Rotten Tomatoes.

974
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: So Rotten Tomatoes is a movie criticism aggregate platform They

975
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: have a thing called the Tomato Meter, which aggregates critics

976
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: reviews of movies and gives a percentage score. The Tomato

977
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: meter may be the most important metric in entertainment, yet

978
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: it is also erratic, reductive, and easily hacked. This is

979
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: from a very interesting report on Vulture. So Vulture reports

980
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: that back in twenty eighteen, a movie called Ophelia, which

981
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: was meant to be kind of a feminist retelling of

982
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: hamlets starring Daisy Ridley, was getting not super great reviews

983
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: from critics, meaning that its aggregate score on Rotten Tomatoes

984
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: was a dismal forty six percent, which is not good,

985
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: especially for a prestige film. They were trying to sort

986
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: of like find a studio home for and kind of

987
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: thought maybe might have some award season buzz. The film

988
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: was rotten on Rotten Tomatoes, which means that it scored

989
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: below sixty percent. Bunker fifteen, a movie publicity firm, recruited

990
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of smaller, obscure, often self published critics who

991
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: are nevertheless part of the pool track by rotten Tomatoes.

992
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: Bunker fifteen paid these critics fifty dollars or more to

993
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: write reviews. These payments are typically not disclosed, and Rotten

994
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: Tomatoes says that it prohibits reviewing based on a financial incentive.

995
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: So Bunker fifteen told Vulture a lot of stuff like

996
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: I would read the article if you want to want

997
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: the whole thing. But essentially what Bunker fifteen told Vulture

998
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: was pretty much an obvious code for we don't tell

999
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: them to write good reviews, but we pay them to

1000
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: write reviews so that we can raise the Rotten Tomatoes score.

1001
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: And it's really nice that those reviews are good reviews.

1002
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: So like, essentially we pay them they write good reviews.

1003
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: If they didn't like the film, they don't write a review,

1004
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: and that's how we're able to get the Rotten Tomatoes

1005
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: score up.

1006
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised by this.

1007
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: I feel like there's been so many weird especially like

1008
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked about review bombing on the show,

1009
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: and that's become such a prevalent thing. Whenever you know,

1010
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 2: there's some about anybody that's not a straight white man,

1011
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: and uh, like Ron Tomatoes, maybe there's like a theme

1012
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: with this. I feel like it was the same thing

1013
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: where with air Baby, where it was like kind of

1014
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 2: cool when at first, like was a thing and it

1015
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: was like, you know, the people's kind of method of

1016
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 2: reviewing movies, and it was like but but then it's

1017
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: so quickly like now.

1018
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 3: I don't even look at it.

1019
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: I don't like I see especially like like I'll like

1020
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: if if, whenever the for a movie I want to see,

1021
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: like the Ron Tomato stuff will come out, but like

1022
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: and I'll like, I'll look at it, but it's not

1023
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: like like I always take it with a grain of

1024
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: salt now because I don't know.

1025
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: There have been some movies that were rated.

1026
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 2: Great that I did not enjoy, and there were other

1027
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 2: movies and the opposite happened, like didn't getting a review

1028
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 2: and I thought it was fun and it just maybe wasn't,

1029
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: you know, not for everybody, but it's still fun.

1030
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: So it's so interesting to hear you say this. I

1031
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: might be like a little pollyanna ish, like this vulture

1032
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: piece blue, like blew the lid right off off this

1033
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: thing for me because I probably spend more time browning

1034
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: rotten tomatoes in every any other site. Like I'm a

1035
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: movie person. I love film. I love cinema. It is

1036
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: my first love. And the I guess it should have

1037
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: occurred to me that rotten tomatoes could be hacked, could

1038
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: be bought, could be bombed, could like be artificially inflated

1039
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: or deflated.

1040
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 5: It just I don't know.

1041
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm usually pretty skeptical about tech.

1042
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: But I wonder if I let my pure love of

1043
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: movies blind me the truth that was right in front

1044
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: of my face.

1045
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: Nah, I mean, I cut the I will also like,

1046
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 2: I'm a big f like I love movies.

1047
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 3: I'm a big movie person.

1048
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: But I feel like my opinion too, My view is

1049
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: always I think ultimately like it's objective. Everybody's got their

1050
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: own interest and opinions and stuff, and I think, you know,

1051
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: it is hard to like universally.

1052
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: I don't know, but but.

1053
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just seeing all these incidences of

1054
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 2: review bombing.

1055
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised.

1056
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 2: But the thing, the thing that does prize me is

1057
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 2: the fact that it's like because I feel like there's

1058
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 2: usually the official tomatoman and then there's the fan one,

1059
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's it's interesting, like, so this article is

1060
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: saying that it's affecting the like official tomato meter are.

1061
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a great question. So basically the official critics,

1062
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: so for folks who don't spend all their time on

1063
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: fucking rotten tomatoess like I do. It has two different tracks.

1064
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: There is the audience score and the critics score, and

1065
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: the critics score is the one that really matters. And

1066
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: so to answer your question, Joey, yes, the critics score

1067
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: can be gamified. Here's how it works. The scores can

1068
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: sort of be hacked by studios. When a studio is

1069
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: prepping the release of a new title, it will screen

1070
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: the film for critics in advance. It's a film publicist

1071
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: job to organize these screenings and invite the writers they

1072
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: think will respond most positively. Then that publicist will set

1073
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: the movies review embargo, in part so that its initial

1074
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: Tomato Meter score is as high as possible at the

1075
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,439
Speaker 1: moment when it can have the maximum benefits for word

1076
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: of mouth and early ticket sales. They really rely on

1077
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: fan side. So even though like traditional critics are probably

1078
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: less likely to write a glowing review for like a

1079
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: superhero movie, studios can generally count on somebody who is

1080
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: a big fan of that franchise to write a positive review.

1081
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: And even if they write that positive review on like

1082
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: a self published fan side or like a medium page

1083
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: that can sometimes still count toward the Rotten Tomatoes aggregate

1084
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: critics review, So it doesn't seem like it's really that

1085
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,959
Speaker 1: hard to gamify those critics scores, and it people listening

1086
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: might be like, why are you telling me this? Why

1087
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: does this matter? Well, it matters because Rotten Tomatoes is

1088
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: actually kind of a big deal. It can really make

1089
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: or break a film's release. If you watch one of

1090
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: my favorite shows on HBO Max the other two, there's

1091
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: a whole plot line about how powerful Rotten Tomatoes is,

1092
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: unshaping how a film is perceived. Studios are so scared

1093
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: about Rotten Tomato's Tomato Meter score that they actually work

1094
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: with a company called screen engine ASI, which attempts to

1095
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: forecast scores. Publicist spoke to Vulture and said, I put

1096
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: in our original business plan that we should not do

1097
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: films that score less than eighty. Rotten Tomatoes is the

1098
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: only public stamp of approval that says this is out

1099
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: of immense quality, and all critics agree, but like, not necessarily,

1100
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: And so if studios and publicists are using this as

1101
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: a stamp of approval, but it's also easily hacked and

1102
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: easily gamified, it seems like a little bit of a scam. Anyway,

1103
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: the whole piece is definitely worth a read.

1104
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 2: That not focusing on films to score less than an eighty,

1105
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 2: I feel like that's so concerning because people, I think,

1106
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: because the film industry is it's like an industry, and

1107
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: it is this very like hyper capitalized.

1108
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 3: It is still like art.

1109
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 2: It is still art that's very accessible to people too,

1110
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: and that's the reason, like film has such an important place,

1111
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: and like, I don't know, I have a lot of

1112
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: feelings about the film industry, but I feel like, yeah,

1113
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 2: like there's plenty of movies like I love that have

1114
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 2: like seventies or like even yeah, even in like the

1115
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: fifties or sixties, the like cult classic films that like,

1116
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 2: like if studios are only focusing on movies that score

1117
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 2: over eighty, we're not gonna get so much of like

1118
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 2: the culture around film or the culture that the film

1119
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: industry produces.

1120
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing.

1121
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 2: And I think it's the same thing with like all

1122
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: the Netflix stuff, with all these like TV shows that

1123
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: are getting canceled. There's been a lot of things, you know,

1124
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 2: like we're in the middle of the writer's strike for

1125
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 2: a reason. There's like all these movies that are getting shelved.

1126
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 2: There's like TV shows that are getting canceled after one

1127
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: season because it's film is an art form, and it's

1128
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: like these companies are trying to take that aspect away

1129
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: and the creative aspect away, and that's just like concerning overall. I.

1130
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm almost like tearing up here when you

1131
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: talk about this, because it film is something that I

1132
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: take very seriously. Art and culture and film. It's like

1133
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: the thing that saved me, and it's really really important,

1134
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: and it feels like we're losing it. This is a

1135
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: little bit of a longer read, but I want to

1136
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: read this quote that Richard link Later, one of my

1137
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: favorite directors, said. So he was asked in an interview

1138
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: about what he thinks about the current state of American

1139
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: movie making, and he said, it's a little bit long

1140
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 1: sibitter with me. He said, it feels like it's gone

1141
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: with the wind or gone with the algorithm. Sometimes I'll

1142
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: talk with some of my contemporaries who I came up

1143
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: with during the nineties and we'll go, oh my god,

1144
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: we could never get that done today. So on the

1145
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: one hand, selfishly, you think I guess I was born

1146
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: at the right time. I was able to participate in

1147
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: what always feels like the last good era for filmmaking,

1148
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: and then you hope for a better day. But man,

1149
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: the way distribution has fallen off. Sadly, it's mostly just

1150
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: the audience. Is there a new generation that really values

1151
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: cinema anymore? That's the dark thought. I have a film society,

1152
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: and I run into so many young cinema loving kids

1153
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: who actually have the Criterion Channel and they watch all

1154
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,959
Speaker 1: kinds of amazing movies. But I know that culturally that's

1155
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: the exception. I fear that there's not enough of a

1156
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: critical mass and the culture to sustain what was. Who knows.

1157
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: I don't think I have any deeper analysis than anyone

1158
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: else would, and it's not in my nature to make

1159
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: huge statements about whether it's all over. I just feel

1160
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: we're all treading water and hoping we don't drown. Challenging

1161
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: times are certainly here, with a changing culture and a

1162
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: changing technology, it's hard to see cinema slipping back into

1163
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: the prominence it once held. I think we could feel

1164
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: it coming when they started calling films content. But that's

1165
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: what happens when you let tech people take over your industry.

1166
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine indie cinema in particular having the

1167
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: cultural relevance that it did. It's hard to imagine the

1168
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: whole culture is going to be on the same page

1169
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: about anything, much less filmmaking. We can be so self

1170
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: absorbed and say it's just about cinema, but it's really

1171
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: all of our modern cultural life. You could say the

1172
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: same things about reading books. A lot of young people

1173
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: can't really read a book because they're just on their phones.

1174
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: Some really intelligent, passionate, good citizens just don't have the

1175
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: same need for literature and movies anymore. It doesn't occupy

1176
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: the same space in the brain. I think that's just

1177
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: how we've given over our lives largely to this thing

1178
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: that depletes the need for curating and filling ourselves up

1179
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: with meaning from art and fictional worlds. It has been

1180
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: filled up with, let's face it, advanced delivery system for advertising.

1181
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: It's sad, but what can you do. I also don't

1182
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: want to go through life thinking our best days are

1183
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: behind us. That's just not productive. So in your own area,

1184
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: you just have to persist and do what you can

1185
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: on behalf of the things that you believe in. You

1186
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: have to believe that everything can change and things can

1187
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: go back to being a little bit better. Isn't that

1188
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: what we all want for everything these days, from democracy

1189
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: on down? Can't we just go back to things being

1190
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: a little better? And why that answer really punched me

1191
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: in the gut because I feel like that's where we're at,

1192
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: where these things that are that we're just purely good.

1193
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: Movies are good, culture is good, art is good, music

1194
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: is good. We are losing that, and we're losing the

1195
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: kind of collective cultural understanding that those things have value

1196
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: and that they're not just content to fill streamers and

1197
01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: content to put advertising on. That they are value. They're

1198
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: what make us us, right, like when all of us

1199
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: are dead, that's those are the things that people are

1200
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: gonna watch and read and listen to and consume to

1201
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: understand what we were in twenty twenty three. And it's

1202
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: really sad to me the idea that as a culture

1203
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: collectively we might not hold that as a value, that

1204
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: cultural longevity. We might be losing that. Really it really

1205
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: it hurts.

1206
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I feel like the same way. I

1207
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 2: think it is really concerning to see what's happening. The

1208
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: one thing I do kind of disagree with with that quote.

1209
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: I think the kind of lens of like, oh, people

1210
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 2: just don't want these kind of movies, don't want these

1211
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: kind of like indie really like more artistic movies anymore.

1212
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: I think that's that I'm a little bit more cautious of.

1213
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily that people don't want it.

1214
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: I think so much of it just has to do

1215
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: with the fact that, like the way that the film

1216
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 2: industry has acted in the past like decade, it has

1217
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: kind of given people like it's become so much more centralized.

1218
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: There's been so much more emphasis on, like you know,

1219
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 2: a lot of like special effects and CGI and stuff

1220
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 2: that isn't even particularly good coming from a lot of

1221
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: these studios. But like, and I mean, I think this

1222
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: whole idea of like these film franchises has become such

1223
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: a bigger thing culturally. But a lot of that is

1224
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: because that is what these production companies have like sort

1225
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 2: of engineered the film industry to look like to look like.

1226
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 2: And again, like I brought up the strike writer strike earlier,

1227
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 2: it's the fact that the power, the monetary power is

1228
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: so centralized right now, and the people that are the

1229
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 2: ones making this art, aren't getting compensate, aren't able to

1230
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 2: live their lives.

1231
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's just the fact. And the one

1232
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 3: thing that I think kind of.

1233
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: Gives me hope in this sort of situation is the

1234
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 2: fact that I think we are reaching a point where,

1235
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: like all these superhero movies keep flopping because people have

1236
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: gotten really sick of it.

1237
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 3: Because again, like I love super movies. I think they're fun,

1238
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 3: They're always.

1239
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 2: Gonna be a thing in American culture, but like we're

1240
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 2: all kind of sick of the of the like Avengers thing,

1241
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: Like they kind of did their big thing, and it's

1242
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 2: like we're ready for the next thing. I feel like

1243
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: lately there's been like a couple more that I've sort

1244
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 2: of like I remember, okay, everything everywhere all at once

1245
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 2: when that I love that movie so much. I know

1246
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 2: lots of people love that movie, and I remember talking

1247
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: to a friend about it and they were just like

1248
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: I felt so like like it felt new. It was

1249
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 2: the first thing that I watched in a while that

1250
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 2: felt like new and original. And I feel like I'm

1251
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 2: seeing a little bit more of that, and like, I

1252
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: don't know, I saw like Bottoms last weekend.

1253
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how was it. I'm seeing it. I'm

1254
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: seeing it tomorrow. Is it good?

1255
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 3: It's so good?

1256
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 2: Okay, that is like one of my new favorite movies again,

1257
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 2: solidarating with the Writer's show you soleidraating with the actors,

1258
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: like I know they're not doing promotion right now, so

1259
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to be like, but but it's an

1260
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: amazing movie. I totally recommend peop'll go see it. But

1261
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: even like with that, I remember seeing a tweet from

1262
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: somebody about it where they were like, here's the budget

1263
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: and here's what it made. It it's opening weekend and

1264
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 2: it was less than the budget. But I was like, okay,

1265
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,479
Speaker 2: but that's just opening weekend. Like and also it opened

1266
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: to only a couple of theaters. This isn't like a

1267
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: Marvel movie where they're trying like there was that whole

1268
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: thing for a while, where.

1269
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 3: Like Disney kept trying to like one up.

1270
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 2: It's like most money made for a movie, and there

1271
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: was like a whole thing.

1272
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 3: It was between like The.

1273
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 2: Avengers and like Avatar for a while, and like, I

1274
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 2: don't care, like it.

1275
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 3: Was one of those things.

1276
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: I was sort of like, they made billions of dollars,

1277
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: why are they still trying to make more money just

1278
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: to be just really a pr stunt. So I think again,

1279
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 2: I think the issue is less like people don't want

1280
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 2: this stuff.

1281
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 3: I think people do. I think people always will.

1282
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: Yes, there's argument that like with you know, TikTok and

1283
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: twitch streamers, there's all this much more like packaged targeted

1284
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 2: content out there. And again, like the whole using the

1285
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 2: word content versus film, which I agree with that I

1286
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 2: think calling content feels a little weird. But yeah, but

1287
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: at the same time, I think, you know, people like art.

1288
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 2: People want art that's like a part of humanity that

1289
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: has existed forever.

1290
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 3: And yeah, again I am hopeful.

1291
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 2: I do think like the fact that like A twenty

1292
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: four has kind of taken off in his popularity.

1293
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 3: Like as much as I don't like film Twitter as.

1294
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 2: A whole, I think the fact that like film, Twitter

1295
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 2: and letterbox and all these things are sort of like

1296
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: a bigger thing, I think it just shows that, like

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01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: there's still people interested in this, there's still people that

1298
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 2: want to see this. It's just the industry is fucked,

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01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 2: Like honestly, it's yeah, I'm hoping for the best, but yeah,

1300
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens.

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01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love everything that you just said.

1302
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: First of all, I think I'm I'm like an a

1303
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: twenty four stan, I'm probably I'm probably the person on

1304
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: film Twitter that you're like, God, you're so annoying.

1305
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 2: I like, I'm also it is a thing where I'm like,

1306
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 2: I'm part of the problem, and I.

1307
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I'm the problem. It's me.

1308
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1309
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 1: But this is so hopeful. This is such a hopeful

1310
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: note to end on, like, support the writer's strike as

1311
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: much as I like, as much harm as these like

1312
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: billionaire streamer Hollywood ceo bastards have given us the fact

1313
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 1: that they robbed us of a Bottoms press tour, I

1314
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: will never forgive them.

1315
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 2: But they're like a couple of videos I did before

1316
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: the before the strike, We're just like beautiful but yeah again.

1317
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 3: And I go see Bottoms.

1318
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 2: The way to support the strike is to show these

1319
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: executives that people want these movies, that people want this creativity.

1320
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 3: Go see Bottoms. Fantastic film.

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01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: That is a great place to end. You have your

1322
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: assignment for the weekend, folks, go see Bottoms. Joey, thank

1323
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: you so much for being here. I really appreciate it,

1324
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: of course, and thanks so much to all of you

1325
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: for listening. We will talk to you very soon. If

1326
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: you're looking for ways to support the show, check out

1327
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: our March store at tangody dot com slash store. Got

1328
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just

1329
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: want to say hi, You can read us at Hello

1330
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 1: at tegody dot com. You can also find transcripts for

1331
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: today's episode at TENG Goody dot com. There Are No

1332
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod.

1333
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by

1334
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison

1335
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our

1336
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want

1337
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

1338
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

1339
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.