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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. It is not brought to you by Asia's

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Speaker 1: in top Hats. Instead, it's supported by the generous contributions

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Speaker 1: of people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it stories of things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome again to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve as always,

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Speaker 1: of course, joined by Devon, Joe and once again, actually

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Speaker 1: I guess this week we are what is This is

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Speaker 1: the third week of Thinking Sideways. Most wanted something like that,

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Speaker 1: so this is the third most second runner up. However,

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Speaker 1: Devon calls it it's the third most requesting episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's this is actually a big one that's been

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Speaker 1: actually got a big, huge write up in Smithsonian magazine.

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Speaker 1: It does, it does well. We're gonna talk about is

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Speaker 1: the Solder children. Yeah, mysterious missing Sodder children. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: and I gotta I gotta tell you right from the outside,

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Speaker 1: I never really thought there was a whole lot to

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Speaker 1: this story. I think that's one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: I was never inclined to do it. But once you

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Speaker 1: get into it, you find some details. But I think

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Speaker 1: part of my problem with the story is it's got

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Speaker 1: a lot of what we here in this room would

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Speaker 1: call shoddy retellings or very edited retellings for sensation. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the one of the protagonists of the father in this

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Speaker 1: case was I think Sicilian, and so a lot of

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Speaker 1: people automatically assumed the mafia connection. Yeah, there's a very

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that went on, and so it's kind of,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, inflated the story. And because of that,

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Speaker 1: anybody needs to listen to the show for amount of

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Speaker 1: time knows that when I get a story like this,

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Speaker 1: I love to tell the fantastic version and then pull

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Speaker 1: in reality after the fact. But I want to do

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Speaker 1: that today. I kind of instead want to take the

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Speaker 1: track of here's what happened. These are the bits that

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get told, and then we're going to bring

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Speaker 1: in reality as we stepped through each piece of the story.

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna leave out this stuff that is obviously

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Speaker 1: not true. Well, yeah, when there's there are going to

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Speaker 1: be things that are gonna get left out in this

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Speaker 1: telling because I cannot in any way, shape or form

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Speaker 1: validated can't. I can't say, well that really happened, because

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Speaker 1: I don't know when that was introduced to the story.

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Speaker 1: Was that there in the beginning or not? So what

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Speaker 1: about the UFOs? I I have to leave those out,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to tell folks who are really

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Speaker 1: really interested in the story, you've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: reading on it, there are going to be parts that

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Speaker 1: aren't in there, and that's because I've left them out

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Speaker 1: because I can't prove that they actually have. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: do that a lot, and we don't usually add this disclaimer,

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Speaker 1: but I think they on some of the feedback that

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Speaker 1: we've been getting, we're going to start letting people know

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Speaker 1: when we're doing that, because it's it's not as you know,

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Speaker 1: but we've seen it and we just don't think it

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Speaker 1: is it really worthwhile to add it to the story. Well,

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Speaker 1: when you see it written exactly the same every time

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Speaker 1: over the entire course of the Internet, it makes me

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Speaker 1: start to question if it wasn't just a continual copy paste,

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Speaker 1: especially when it happens to also be missing from like

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Speaker 1: the more reputable sources. But it's in all of the

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Speaker 1: like black background, white text. You starts to be a

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Speaker 1: kind of an indicator. Yeah, okay, started in wonder some

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Speaker 1: of these unsolved mystery pages are just bots. When they're

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Speaker 1: not even people go on grab that grab the text

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Speaker 1: from another page's I think, so all right, Well, I

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Speaker 1: think we've had you know, enough of a disclamer. Probably

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Speaker 1: get into the story yet. Okay. Our story begins on

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Speaker 1: Christmas Eve in Fayetteville, West Virginia. We are at the

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Speaker 1: home of George and Jeanie Sauder, who have ten children,

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Speaker 1: huge family of kids. Nine of the kids were home,

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Speaker 1: the tenth was away in the army. It's Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 1: Mom and dad have let some of the kids open

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Speaker 1: some presents. Those kids say, hey, can we stay up

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Speaker 1: late and play with some presents? And they say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, as long as you block up and shut

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Speaker 1: everything down tonight before you go to bed. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: It's Christmas Eve? Why not? Yeah? Man? About midnight, the

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Speaker 1: phone rings and missus Sauder gets up and answers it,

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Speaker 1: and somebody said, is your refrigerator running? No? No, they

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Speaker 1: asked for somebody that didn't live at the house, and

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Speaker 1: so she of course said, no, you got the wrong number.

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Speaker 1: Person said okay and hung up. That's creepy and mysterious

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Speaker 1: and when she when she was done on the phone,

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Speaker 1: she realized that the kids, being kids, hadn't done what

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Speaker 1: they were supposed to. The lights were on and the

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Speaker 1: door was unlocked, and her old one of her daughters, Marian,

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Speaker 1: was asleep on the couch. She goes, shuts everything down,

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Speaker 1: locks it up, goes to bed, she says. She remembers

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Speaker 1: as she was in bed falling asleep again, she heard

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Speaker 1: something hit the roof or sounded like it hit the

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Speaker 1: roof and rolled off, and then she would sleep, yeah somewhere. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I guess, I just I'm not totally sure why the

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Speaker 1: door would have been unlocked anyway, Like, why wouldn't she

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Speaker 1: just say, okay, make sure to turn. It's not like

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Speaker 1: the kids were playing outside with their toys, just locked

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Speaker 1: the door. When you put up as your as a parent,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a good point. But these are back in

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Speaker 1: old times. I used to live in a small town

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Speaker 1: and when I was a kid, and we didn't lock

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Speaker 1: our door, we would go away. Yeah, I mean, so,

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Speaker 1: I guess since she asked them to lock the door

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Speaker 1: and it later, why did she lock it? It might

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Speaker 1: have been a key lock situation. I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a house where the only way to lock the doors

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Speaker 1: from inside or out was with a skeleton key. The

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Speaker 1: house was sold, so you couldn't act the lock it

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Speaker 1: from the inside without the key, so it might not

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Speaker 1: have been just so easy to shut the door and

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Speaker 1: just flip locks around one thirty in the morning, ballpark

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Speaker 1: is And by the way, their bedroom, I believe it

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Speaker 1: was on the ground floor of the house, right, the

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Speaker 1: bedroom was the parents bedroom was on the ground floor.

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Speaker 1: There was a entire story above them. We don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that we'll we'll get into some of

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Speaker 1: the spatial weirdness of this house. Yeah, I'm just wondering

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Speaker 1: because of the thing that we a little bit glassed

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Speaker 1: over that she heard something fall on the roof, so

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Speaker 1: if she were a few stories down. So yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: let's let me describe the house briefly as best as

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Speaker 1: I can tell. Okay, there's a lot of questions in

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Speaker 1: this story, and one of them is how is this

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Speaker 1: house laid out? Yeah, because because there's my photoswings. But

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Speaker 1: mom and dad Mr and Mrs Solder their bedroom is

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Speaker 1: on the ground floor, and apparently they also had a

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Speaker 1: home office in the house that was on the ground floor.

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Speaker 1: On floor, and then the children were upstairs. And what

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Speaker 1: I don't know is if upstairs was a true second

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Speaker 1: story or or a story and a half house, or

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Speaker 1: story and a half where it was just the attic,

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Speaker 1: and you know that's where the because all the kids

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Speaker 1: slept upstairs in two rooms. So I don't know where

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Speaker 1: the staircases in the house. I don't know where anything

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Speaker 1: in the house is related, because we never get any

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Speaker 1: description of the home. So I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: she would have heard if it is a true two

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Speaker 1: story house, I'm not quite sure how she heard something

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Speaker 1: hit and I'm using air quotes here and rolled down

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Speaker 1: the roof. I don't know answer. It could have been

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Speaker 1: something big and loud enough that it would care you

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Speaker 1: would hear it throughout the house. Could have been but

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Speaker 1: you would think that people upstairs would have heard it.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that also could have been a toy,

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Speaker 1: It could have been a lot, It could have been

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Speaker 1: something in the second story or in the attic space. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't chunk of ice. It is Christmas and it

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Speaker 1: is freezing cold, and it was it was because we're

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Speaker 1: in West Virginia, freaking gold there in the winter. Well,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes squirrels will landing here with the big thump

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Speaker 1: and just sort of scamper off. Not at midnight, though,

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Speaker 1: squirrels don't do that. Squirrels hibernate. Joe, Yes, but we're

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Speaker 1: way off anyway, Stop talking about squirrels. So about one

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Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, she wakes up, missus Sauer wakes

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Speaker 1: up again and realizes that their smoke and the house

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Speaker 1: is on fire. And as you briefly mentioned earlier, I

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Speaker 1: think it was Joe actually talked about there was a

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Speaker 1: home office, and she figured out that there was a

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Speaker 1: fire and it was all the smoke was coming from

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Speaker 1: the home office. Husband and wife wake up, scream at

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Speaker 1: the kids to get out, and they run outside. Totally

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Speaker 1: makes sense, let's get out of a burning building in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they should have gone upstairs and grab the kids. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually I don't agree with that because here's here's the

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Speaker 1: thing is that the kids that were upstairs. I told

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Speaker 1: you Marian was on the couch, she fall asleep downstairs,

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Speaker 1: and then mom and dad were downstairs and the youngest,

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Speaker 1: the three year old child, was also on the ground floor.

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Speaker 1: The others were upstairs, and the ones that were upstairs

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Speaker 1: there was John he's twenty three, George Jr. Sixteen. We

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Speaker 1: have Marian who was downstairs. She was seventeen. I'll just

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Speaker 1: give everybody's ages here because it kind of is important

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Speaker 1: because you see the range of the kids. Uh. Sylvia

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Speaker 1: was the little one, the three year old. She was

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Speaker 1: the one that sleeping downstairs as well. So the people

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Speaker 1: who got out were John, George Jr. Marian, Sylvia, and

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Speaker 1: then Mr and Mrs Saulder. They got out of the house.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the children, we've got Maurice he who

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Speaker 1: was fourteen, Martha twelve, Lewis ten, Genie eight, and Betty

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Speaker 1: six didn't get out of the house. John the oldest son,

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Speaker 1: the twenty three year old. He said that he shook

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Speaker 1: the other kids awake before he left. I think John

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Speaker 1: and George were in a separate room, right, there are

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Speaker 1: five kids in one room and then on a George

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Speaker 1: in the other room. I think so. I'm not sure though, again,

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Speaker 1: no descriptions are really good of who was where in

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Speaker 1: that upper story I do. I have read that it

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Speaker 1: was two rooms, but I'm not really positive who was

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Speaker 1: in what. But it does sound like the younger children

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Speaker 1: were in the room together. The five young ones, because

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Speaker 1: it would make more sense if you'd be all boys,

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Speaker 1: all the boys in one room and all the girls

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Speaker 1: in the other. You know, maybe I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: they may not have had that that luxury rooms. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of boys of creaming in one room. Though. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. Boys. You're boys are terrible. Yeah, yeah, so terrible,

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Speaker 1: pun Joe. Okay, So houses on fire, several kids get out,

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Speaker 1: five of them are not out. Mr Sawder tries to

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Speaker 1: get back into the house, but he can't because the

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Speaker 1: fire is so intense. He runs through the rain barrel

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Speaker 1: to get water to throw on the fire. But we

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Speaker 1: already talked about it's Christmas Eve. It's once or an

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Speaker 1: in the morning. The bucket is fro or the barrel

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Speaker 1: is frozen solid. Can't do anything there. He runs to

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Speaker 1: get his ladder from where he normally keeps it so

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Speaker 1: he can get to the second the window where the

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Speaker 1: kid's room is at. His ladder is missing, runs to

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Speaker 1: his truck to start one of his trucks because he's

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Speaker 1: got a freight business. He hall's freight and he halds coal.

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Speaker 1: Trucks won't start, which is mysterious because his plan was

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Speaker 1: to back up to the house and then get on

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Speaker 1: the top of the truck. Sabotage. Sabotage obviously, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't start Marian to try and get the fire department.

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Speaker 1: She runs to a neighbor's house. And this ferries from

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Speaker 1: the version you read. But she either couldn't get ahold

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Speaker 1: of the operator, because this is back in the day

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Speaker 1: when you didn't dial a number, you called the operator,

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Speaker 1: who then connected you either couldn't get ahold of the operator,

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Speaker 1: or did get ahold of the operator and was connected

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Speaker 1: to the chief of the volunteer fire department. The other

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Speaker 1: version is she couldn't get through. Somebody else saw the

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Speaker 1: fire tried to call the operator, also couldn't get through,

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Speaker 1: and then that person drove to either the operator's house

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Speaker 1: or the chief's house, not sure which. And that's all

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Speaker 1: they had was a volunteer volunteer fire departments all they had. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they would seem like they probably drove to the chief's house.

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Speaker 1: Why bothered with the operator, I don't know. Yeah, it's weird.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Here's something that everybody wigs out about

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Speaker 1: is when the fire department showed up eight o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning. It does seem like a long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does unless you understand how the fire department worked,

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Speaker 1: its volunteer fire department, so they would just stand out

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Speaker 1: a group tax i assume. Of course, they used what

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Speaker 1: was called the phone tree system. So person one calls

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Speaker 1: person to and says, hey, there's a fire, get to

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Speaker 1: the station. Okay, I will. Person one hangs up, goes

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Speaker 1: to the station. Person to calls person three, Hey there's

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Speaker 1: a fire, Get to the station, and the process repeats,

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Speaker 1: and you it's the tree to get ahold of everybody.

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Speaker 1: In my experience that it had always been more like

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Speaker 1: we used phone trees when I was in elementary, Should

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Speaker 1: you call two people? That's probably more like what he

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Speaker 1: probably was. I'm just keeping it as simple as possible here,

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Speaker 1: because it took me a while to remember what a

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Speaker 1: phone tree was, because it's such an old concept. You

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Speaker 1: can't just send out a mass email no, no, do

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Speaker 1: you know what they don't miss is the mass text

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Speaker 1: messages anyway, So people wig out about this, But that's

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Speaker 1: the system they had. They didn't have a a siren

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Speaker 1: at the firehouse, so they couldn't just ring that and

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Speaker 1: get everybody's attention. One of the things that you will

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Speaker 1: see when you come across this story, and this is

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Speaker 1: about the fire, is that it lasted for about forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes, which is wrong. Really, it's absolutely wrong. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of house fires do when I last that long,

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Speaker 1: but that's when the fire department shows up and puts

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Speaker 1: it out. The house burned for days. Forty five minutes

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Speaker 1: to an hour is the length of time the house

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Speaker 1: was on fire before the roof collapsed. The roof collapsed,

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Speaker 1: the house continued to burn. It was so hot that

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Speaker 1: when the fire department showed up they still had to

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Speaker 1: hose it down to get in. So this is six

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Speaker 1: and a half hours of fire. So this is all

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Speaker 1: those things that you read that is incorrect. Yeah, by

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Speaker 1: the time they got there, it was probably just mostly

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Speaker 1: smoldering ashes and sitting in the basement. Well, I see,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing is I I don't know that because

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Speaker 1: if it is a two story house, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: a good thing to bring up as the basement. But

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Speaker 1: if it's a two story house, that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: material and that's all your possessions. Joe talks about the basement,

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Speaker 1: which is important here because the house had a basement.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how big. I'm guessing it's about a

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Speaker 1: five feet to eight feet deep basements and normal size basement,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know that. But there's a reason I

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Speaker 1: say that, and you know, come up shortly. Wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: like a normal size No, but this is you know,

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Speaker 1: this is the forties and you just dug a basement.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a standard for how deep. Yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: be to be like a cross base, a large space. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't stand up I mean deep. If you have

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Speaker 1: a five ft deep basement, that could be below grade

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Speaker 1: and then you got like a foot and let me

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Speaker 1: a couple of feet above. That's about standards. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that could absolutely be it. Well, the obviously everything that

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Speaker 1: was on fire fell into the basement and everything was

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Speaker 1: contained and it would have kept burning. So that's where

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Speaker 1: all that fire is and that's what they where they

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Speaker 1: would have had to put everything out. Something I came

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Speaker 1: across and I hadn't really thought about, and you never

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Speaker 1: really see list in this story, is that homes in

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Speaker 1: that area at that time we're heated with coal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which means that there's a coal shoot, which means there's

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Speaker 1: piles of coal sitting in the basement to heat the

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Speaker 1: home with which when house catch on fire, it's going

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Speaker 1: to also catch all that coal on fire. And didn't

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Speaker 1: Mr run a cold business. He hauled coal. So that's

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Speaker 1: another that's another bit to say, well they probably he

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Speaker 1: did with living in coal country Western exactly my house.

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Speaker 1: My house is ninety years old. Originally it had a

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Speaker 1: coal burning furnace in it, and we're not even living

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Speaker 1: in coal country. Yeah, so yeah, I'm so here's something

302
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 1: there that I that I want to bring up about

303
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 1: that is if people don't realize is that coal can

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Speaker 1: burn extremely hot in two thousand degrees fahrenheit, depending on

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Speaker 1: the conditions, type of coal, how much airflow. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that it can influence that temperature. But

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Speaker 1: it's gonna burn easily a thousand degrees. That's pretty damn hot.

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Speaker 1: Keep that in mind. Now we get back to the

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Speaker 1: fire department. They arrive, they hosed the place down, they

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Speaker 1: start combing through the scene. It's a bunch of volunteer firefighters.

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Speaker 1: They don't know how to look for bodies. And let's

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Speaker 1: be honest, at this point, everybody's expecting to find skeletal remains.

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Speaker 1: Because it's been hours and hours and hours of the

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Speaker 1: houses on fire, they expect to probably find full intact bodies,

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Speaker 1: but full attack skeletons. Yes, they don't know what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: and they're combing through. In their search, which according to

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Speaker 1: the lore, was only about two hours long, they a

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Speaker 1: identified the source of the fire, which was a faulty

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Speaker 1: fuse box, and be they found no remains. They then

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Speaker 1: after two hours, because it was Christmas morning, told Mr Sowder, Listen,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go home and we're gonna come back and

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Speaker 1: we will finish the search. Just give us some time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because the fact of the matter is is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the point of spoiling your Christmas? When there's five

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Speaker 1: dead bodies in there? They're not going to go anywhere, sadly, brutally.

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Speaker 1: That's the truth that really is. That's that's a harsh

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Speaker 1: way to put it, but it's it's absolutely right. But

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Speaker 1: here's a problem that's also not correct in terms of

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Speaker 1: the report that they found nothing. Oh, there's reports that

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Speaker 1: they did find things. The volunteer firefighters UM, along with

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Speaker 1: a priest who was there and Mrs Sauder's brother, one

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Speaker 1: of her brothers all said that they saw remains in

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Speaker 1: the basement. Soe bone and we're talking, we're talking like

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Speaker 1: in the basement, as in the house has collapsed into

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Speaker 1: the basement. Not correct, Okay, it's clarify. Everything burns, everything's

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Speaker 1: burned and fallen in and it's a hole in the

337
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Speaker 1: ground that's holding all of that burned stuff. Okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to clarify because when I first was

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Speaker 1: reading through this and they're seeing the term in the basement,

340
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Speaker 1: I was like, what, that doesn't make sense. That would

341
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Speaker 1: they be in the basement. Okay, yep. So the thing

342
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 1: is though they didn't tell Mr. And Mrs Suder what

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Speaker 1: they had seen. Okay, they still have to finish with

344
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: their their their search, but they don't say anything because again,

345
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Speaker 1: it's Christmas morning and you've just lost five children. You

346
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Speaker 1: don't say, hey, you saw a couple of bones and

347
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: they're just so you know, but hey, like, well, yeah,

348
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: they're totally totally barbecued. Man. So yeah, the terrible thing

349
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Speaker 1: to say, and that's not what they were going to do,

350
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Speaker 1: and which I get. Yeah, you want to say Merry

351
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: Christmas more, you want to like, you know, suck them up.

352
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: Which I don't know how you would in the situation.

353
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Speaker 1: They saw remains like of what I don't ask, don't

354
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Speaker 1: I mean, was it We don't know, but it's got

355
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: to be skeletal remains. After that much time, there would

356
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: be very little flesh left. I saw some claims that

357
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Speaker 1: they found some internal organs, which that's later on, Yeah,

358
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Speaker 1: which I find hard to believe because I mean, because

359
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,919
Speaker 1: after all that time and it was really high temperatures,

360
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 1: you would think all that stuff would be just charred,

361
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Speaker 1: just charred ashes, one of the last bits of the

362
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Speaker 1: human body aside from bones, flesh, just to flesh that's

363
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: left over in the fire, believe it or not, as

364
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: you're intestines because they're so dense and full of moisture

365
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: and waste, so they don't burn as fast as everything else.

366
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Speaker 1: But those would be one of the few things that

367
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: would be left before then it's just bone and charred bone.

368
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: Charred bone blends in with the rest of the charred stuff. Yes, okay,

369
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 1: that is absolutely true. Mr Sadder, being a grieving father,

370
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Speaker 1: several days later, decides against the advice of everybody because,

371
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Speaker 1: by the way, the volunteer fire Department hadn't had a

372
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 1: chance to come back. Yet it's the holidays. They got

373
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: things to do. I guess they don't come back. Yet.

374
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: He decides that he's going to make the what remains

375
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: of the house and memorial to his children, and he

376
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 1: fills in the basement with dirt, five vertical feet of

377
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: dirt the bulldozer and packs it in there, and then

378
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 1: they plant flowers on top. Now, I yet, planting flowers

379
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: on top that is totally a memorial thing. To get

380
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: the bulldozing bit is weird to me. But one of

381
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: the things that I never find when you read about

382
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: the fact that he filled in the sight, you never

383
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: hear if they cleaned out the basement first. We don't

384
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: know did did somebody come along and pull out all

385
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: the stuff? Did he just say to hell with it

386
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: and bury it all? I think, yeah, I kind of

387
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 1: get the feeling that they left all the stuff in there,

388
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: and he pushed the dirt in on top because it's

389
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: his he was sure at that point that his kids

390
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 1: remains were still in there, and I'm going to fill

391
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: it in. I absolutely feel the same way. But we

392
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: don't how anything says one way or the other. And

393
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: however horrible this is are. Is there a theory that

394
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: he was trying to cover something up. No, actually, that's

395
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: never in any of the theories. It's never that mom

396
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: and dad are directly responsible. Okay, I don't never. I

397
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: don't think that if he had actually, say, murdered his

398
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: kids and was trying to cover it up, I don't

399
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: think it would have called so much attention to the case,

400
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: because they really they kept this case alive for sure.

401
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that wasn't going to

402
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: come up. So everybody believes that this was just the

403
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: really ill fated actions of a grieving father, the filling in, yes,

404
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: as a lot of grieving parents will do. Of course,

405
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: Mr ms Sutter tried to go on with their lives,

406
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: but eventually, because they don't get all the details of

407
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: the case, they start to disbelieve what they're told, to

408
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: the point that they don't believe that their children were

409
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: actually in the fire, which I guess is weird. It's

410
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: kind of a normal to have accepted it in the beginning.

411
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: He did. But there's a lot of parents who child

412
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: commits suicide and they believe at first that it was suicide,

413
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: and then suddenly year two years later they staunchly believe

414
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: that their child was murdered and that it's to cover

415
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 1: up of some kind some kind of diabolical scheme. It's

416
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: a lot easier to believe that, oh helly something you

417
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: would rather believe. Yeah, they want to believe they are

418
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 1: and and that's exactly what happened. I think the thing

419
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: that really planted the seed for Mr. Sawder was, uh,

420
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, not too long after, he sees a picture

421
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: in the newspaper of a girl who he's pretty sure

422
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: is one of his children, and he goes to try

423
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: and see her. She's in New York by the way.

424
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: There in West Virginia, no shocker. The child's parents tell

425
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: him to buzz off, get away from us, crazy man.

426
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: But he's sure at that point that his kids, that

427
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: his kids didn't actually die, and they continue to to

428
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: follow that. They eventually get the case into the destruction

429
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: of their home and potential murder or theft, abduction, kidnapping,

430
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: thank you of their children reopened. It was reopened, it

431
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: was reinvestigated. Nothing ever comes of it of an actually

432
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: the site of the home was excavated. It was in

433
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: There's a pathologist by the name of Oscar Hunter. He

434
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: excavated the site. By his own admission, though he didn't

435
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: do what's called screening, and if you don't know what

436
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: that is, it's literally running the dirt that you dig

437
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: up across the screen to get the large particulate out

438
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: of it. He didn't do larger. He didn't do that

439
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: because he was expecting to find full solid bone, so

440
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: he didn't. He didn't find it. Why was he expecting that?

441
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: Because he expected to be the bodies of five children

442
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: in a house that had burned, and that their bones

443
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: would not have broken down. So there was no no

444
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: like briefing on the case of like, hey, this house

445
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: burned for like a million hours, and I don't I

446
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: don't know why he thought that, but I will be like,

447
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: if he was qualified to look for it, he should

448
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: have also known. But I will bring up the fact

449
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: that it's kind of common knowledge how cremation works. I think,

450
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if at the time it was,

451
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: but he's a pathologist, so I would think he would

452
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: understand this. And we'll talk about this now. Is that

453
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: if you don't know how cremation works, they put a

454
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: body in a furnace for about two hours, they burn

455
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: all of the flesh. The bones, however, don't burn entirely

456
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: and they have to be ground up, so it's not

457
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: as if we just completely turned to ash. I think

458
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: he was expecting a situation like that because the process

459
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: of cremation it takes about an hour two. Yeah, but

460
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: that's it, and then there's just solid bone left. But

461
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is these kids. First of all,

462
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: they were small, lighter skeletons and full on adult skeletons absolutely,

463
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: and they were in the middle of the house that

464
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: collapsed on top of them, so they would have been

465
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: all crunched up. And then a bunch of volunteer firefighters

466
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: came along trooped through the site while they hosted down

467
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: number one with high pressure hose which would have a

468
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: polarizing effect. And then number two they trooped through the site,

469
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: stopping on the bones, and then five of dirt were

470
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: poured on top of the thing. I mean, it just

471
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: it just seems silly that he would have expected in

472
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: any way to have found full bones there. I I personally,

473
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: I think that at the time there was a certain

474
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: professional arrogance in a lot of fields, and I think

475
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: that he might have suffered from that Okay, so, of

476
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: course no bones are discovered when this guy excavates the site. Actually,

477
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: that's a lie. Two sets of bones were found, some

478
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: vertebrae and the hand of a boy. Well okay, so

479
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: except that those bones were never in a fire, so

480
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: they didn't actually belong to any of the children. So

481
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: they were introduced as part of the fielder. Either they

482
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: were introduced as part of the fielder or there was

483
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: a grave that was opened up not too far away,

484
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: and by opened up, I mean robbed, and people think

485
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: that somebody might have dug it up and buried the

486
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: bones so that the family had something to find. When

487
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: this guy showed up to then give them some sort

488
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: of closure, I was going to say, it's it's weird

489
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: to me that unidentified boy's hand and vertebrae showed up

490
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: in this and everyone was like, well, it wasn't the

491
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: kids we were looking for, so it doesn't matter who

492
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: it belonged to. We don't care where the hand of

493
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: a boy showed up. What you put it on a

494
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: p B on a kid that's missing some vertebrae in

495
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: a hand. Yeah, I don't know why they didn't do that. No,

496
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know that's I guess that I would.

497
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: I would guess it had to have come from that

498
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: that great then, or else there would have been a

499
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: huge outcry, Yes, where did this come from? Because where

500
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: he got the fieldert? Like, if you just managed to

501
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: happen to get some remains of that's a huge problem. Yeah,

502
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: it really is. It is entirely possible, though, that that

503
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: he did just get it along with his fieldert. I

504
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: mean I found bones, and I just randomly digging. I

505
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: found bones, like human bones. I don't know what they were,

506
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: human or animal bones. Probably animal bones probably well, yeah,

507
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: probably carried by dogs. Yeah, probably. I mean it's like,

508
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: not like you can call at the police department every

509
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: time he's stumped across the bone, you know, oh man,

510
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean you could, but eventually they would get they

511
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: would get a little angry with you. So we're gonna

512
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: say it was probably from the open up grave, probably

513
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: from the opening pie. Yes, now, I said that we

514
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: thought that they think that somebody put that there for

515
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: the family to find. Wasn't the only thing that was

516
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: put on the site for the family to find. People

517
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: were really trying to help the family along. Yeah. The

518
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: police chief of the volunteer fire department. Yeah, not the

519
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: Plice chief. The fire chief me no more better English.

520
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: The family hired a private investigator, actually several of them,

521
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: and one of them was talking to the chief, and

522
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: the chief let it slip that he had found internal

523
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: organs at the site and had buried them in a

524
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: box on the site. After the fact. Is that air

525
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: quotes let a slip. Yes, I think that that's air quotes.

526
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: Let it slip. Well, of course Mr Solder wants to

527
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: know the p I and he get the chief to

528
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: take him to the site show where he buried it.

529
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: They dig up this box which they immediately run to

530
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: the corner who immediately opens it up and says, oh, yeah,

531
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: this is a beef liver and it's never been through

532
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: a fire, and it's kind of fresh, and this is

533
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: quite This is at least a year later. I'm not

534
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: sure that I believe any of this, because, I mean,

535
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: the chief can't be that dumb as to think that

536
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: as to think that and he could have just put

537
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: it through a fire and then buried it. I you

538
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: know what, I I don't know, man. That's this is

539
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: one of those things in this story. And there's a

540
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: number of them that we've already talked about. I just

541
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know where that came from. I can tell you

542
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: that this part that we just talked about has spurred

543
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: a lot of conspiracy theories and put the chief at

544
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: the heart of that, along with some other people. I

545
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: don't we're not going to go into that particular theory,

546
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: but it's a whole theory. Is like you know, I mean,

547
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: he's from Cis, Mr Solders from Sicily, so there's a

548
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: mob connection. Of course, that the latter was missing. The

549
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: truck wouldn't start, just like the parents of the child

550
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: who commits suicide. Suddenly things don't add up, so it's

551
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: got to be a plot. Yes. The investigation by the

552
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: police eventually was closed and continued to have the same

553
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: ruling that it was an accidental fire and that the

554
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: children died in the fire. Like the cops. Never nobody

555
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: ever changed the ruling. They humored the family and they

556
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: looked into it again, but they closed it and then

557
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: they refused to look at it any further, despite the

558
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: objections of the family. They had made their decision. And

559
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: that also is something that fuels people to say, oh

560
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: my gosh, there's something going on. On. They ignored it

561
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: on purpose, which I personally don't believe. There were some

562
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: things that the solders did that really helped keep the

563
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: story alive. The billboard, the billboard is exactly what I

564
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: was going. If you looked at this case on the THEWS,

565
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: the billboard is no longer there. No, No, it's not

566
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: twenty year or something like that. Yeah, it was a

567
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: billboard and it was only a couple of feet off

568
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: the ground. It wasn't you know. The giant tall women

569
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: see on the side of the freeway had the pictures

570
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: of their five children who had disappeared in before the fire,

571
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: not what I said, disappeared before the fire, because that's

572
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: the way the family sees it. And the story asking

573
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: for anyone to come forward with information, and several people did. Shocking,

574
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: shocking and always I'm gonna give you a couple of them.

575
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: And these again, these are ones that you'll see in

576
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: the lower and I just don't get why they're hung

577
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: on too with so strongly, because the first one I

578
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: want to talk about is woman named Ida crutch Field.

579
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Ida says she saw the children hung the night of

580
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: the fire, and that they were at her hotel being

581
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: supervised by two Italian males at this hotel where she

582
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: was staying at it. She worked at the hotel she

583
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: worked there. Um, as we talked, as Joe's talked about,

584
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, the family was Italian. They were actually immigrants.

585
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: I think Mrs Sauder came over when she was three.

586
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: Mr Sawder came over when he was like fourteen or fifteen,

587
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: something like that. But they were they were natively from

588
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: their native Italians. Um. But anyway, back to Ida. What

589
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: she says is that the children, she tried to talk

590
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: to them, the adults gave her the stink eye. They

591
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: then brusquely talked to the children, who then clammed up

592
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: and wouldn't talk to her anymore. They talked to the

593
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: kids in Italian, and they talked to the kids in Italian.

594
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: Didder children speak Italian? I don't know. You know, who

595
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: else I don't know spoke Italian or even knew what

596
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Italian sounded like? Yes, how did I even know that? Well?

597
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: Actually it's possible, because I I sure that Fatville actually

598
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: has a pretty decent sized Italian immigrant population, or did

599
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: at that time. I'll give you that. Yeah, I've heard this,

600
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: But here's here's some other problems with her with Ida.

601
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: She never saw the pictures of the daughter children until

602
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: two years after the fire. She then waited another five

603
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: years to come forward with her story, for a total

604
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: of seven years from the date of the fire. Yeah,

605
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: that does sort of reduce your credibility. Yeah, I think,

606
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: to be nice, I'm going to say that she was

607
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: trying to help and really just wanted to be involved.

608
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: You want because actually, yeah, if you showed me pictures

609
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: of five children and I had seen them five years before,

610
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: I doubt that I would remember them exactly. Yeah. Did Sorry,

611
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know the answer. Did Mr

612
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: Mr and Mrs Sauder? Did they come over with their

613
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: families like their parents brought them over? Right? They must have.

614
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: Mrs Sauder came over with her family. She was much

615
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: too young come on her own. Mr. Sauder came over

616
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: with his older brother who basically hit American soil, turned

617
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: around and went whole. So he was on his own.

618
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: That I'm just because, you know, my grandfather came over

619
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: and they spoke Italian to him. He was older than this, obviously,

620
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: but that was you know, the family still spoke Italian.

621
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: So I don't know if the grandparents were involved in

622
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: the Solder children's raising, they may have spoken Italian to them.

623
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: Just to address that question, Yeah, I know, it's entirely possible.

624
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: A lot of children of immigrants wind up bilingual. So yeah, partially, yeah,

625
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: you know enough to understand somebody sternly talking to you,

626
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: because that's how Nona did it. And you mean no, no,

627
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: your grandma, Oh I've never heard. It was not okay,

628
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: my family, it was non no, okay, okay. So we've

629
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: got some more reports of the children. Yeah, there were

630
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: reports that the children were seeing on the night of

631
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: the fire across the street in a taxi. That's a

632
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: great getaway vehicle, it really is. I mean, well, you

633
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: know they were spotted, of course, because locals came to

634
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: watch the house burn, because what else are you going

635
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: to do on Christmas Eve? You know. It turned out

636
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: there was some other locals who were at a bar

637
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: who heard about the fire and wanted to see it

638
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: and hired a taxi to haul them to it, and

639
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: then had the taxi haul them away. And that's who

640
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: was spotted. And it just happened to look like children

641
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: age ranged from Have you ever seen a bunch of

642
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: drunks in a car. They looked like kids. They really

643
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: do look like yeah, exactly. That's kind of the where

644
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: the story sat, you know, Like I said, it was

645
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: looked into, reported locally, and then it just kind of

646
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: sat there for a while. And it wasn't until the

647
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: sixties when a magazine re ran the story and spread

648
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: it to the world that it really kind of gained traction.

649
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: And that's probably one of the only reasons that we

650
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: know about it is because it got so publicized, and

651
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: that that of course is going to attract cranks to

652
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: the story. It's gonna attract a lot of people. I mean,

653
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: the Sadders, they tracked down every lead they got. They

654
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: went after him. In eight they got a really weird lead,

655
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: which is Mrs Souder went to the mailbox and she

656
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: found a letter with no return address, but it was

657
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: postmark from Kentucky. Inside of the envelope was a picture

658
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: of a young man that sort of kind of maybe

659
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: looked like their son, Louis. He was ten when he disappeared.

660
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: This is twenty three years later, so that means he's

661
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: a fertile, looks like a man and his young his

662
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: early twenties, but at that point he would have been

663
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: in his thirties. It's an odd bit that they immediately

664
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: said it must be him. But they say that well

665
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: on the back of the photo. I think this is

666
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: probably why. If this is true, it says Louis Sauder,

667
00:36:54,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: I love brother Frankie. Is it ill? Little boys? Bill boys? Yeah?

668
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: I I never know what that means, followed by the

669
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: often America of a nine zero one, three two or

670
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: maybe it ends in three five, not sure, But he

671
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: didn't have a brother named Frankie, right, No, that's the

672
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: weird thing. Yeah, that's the really odd thing about this photo.

673
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I know what I was about to say something about.

674
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: Um Okay, so sawders, like I said, they chase everything down.

675
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: They didn't tell anybody what town in Kentucky this postmark

676
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: was from, but they sent a p I to that

677
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: town to look for the center of it. Sadly they

678
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: chose a really bad p I because that p I

679
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: took their money and never came back, which sucks. Yeah,

680
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: it seems like if you, if you're an ethical private investigator,

681
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: would tell these people not to waste their money. Well,

682
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but twenty some odd years later, you're looking

683
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: into this case, you probably just want to get a

684
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: cup bucks. Probably sit around on your delf and do nothing.

685
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: Mr sawder Um he died in so not but about

686
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: the actually would have been the same year that they

687
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: sent the p I off. He died that same year.

688
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: Mrs sawder she died in nine. Both of them died

689
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: believing that their children had been taken and that they

690
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: didn't die in the fire, but were taken. The whole family,

691
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: because there are generations that have lived on all seemed

692
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: to believe this. It's all of them, all of them,

693
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: almost all of them. There is I think there's one

694
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: member of the family who won't, who never talked about it.

695
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's the one family member who didn't

696
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: believe that they got out. Which one was that? That

697
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: was the older brother John, Well, yeah, I think about

698
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: it is is John shook the kids awake before he

699
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: fled down the stairs. If John is telling the family

700
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily believe him. They think that he's just been

701
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: feeling guilty of over fleeing the fire and so. But

702
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: but if John he said that on the night that

703
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: had happened, like evidently with one of the investigators asked

704
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: him that night, or somebody asked him, and he said, no,

705
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: I shook him awake. And I've actually read stuff from

706
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: cops and say, the first statements that somebody makes right away,

707
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: those are usually the true ones. After that they start

708
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: getting regrets and remorse and doubts, and they'll massage and

709
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: change their story. But he said that on the first night. Yeah,

710
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: and and so John has to know that the kids

711
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: were in the house, and so there's no way they

712
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: could have been kidnapped, and he's probably got regrets of

713
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: I should have just shaken him and run. I should

714
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: have grabbed the little boogers and hauled him out with me.

715
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: I can't exactly grab five kids, but they could have

716
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: at least grabbed a couple of a little yea one

717
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: under each arm, and said come with me. The other

718
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: two Yeah, I mean three. He could have six year

719
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: old and eight year old him pretty quickly. Oh yeah,

720
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: so he probably should have. But also he was twenty three.

721
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: He was not really thinking about it. Yeah, I'm sure

722
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of guilt on everybody's part. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

723
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: Normally this is where we would stop, because this is

724
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: kind of where our story ends. Normally we would jump

725
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: right into theories. But we're not going to what why,

726
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: Because I remember in the beginning I said that there

727
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: was a lot of bad retellings, and there were things

728
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: about the story that get just hammered on, and then

729
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: people just figured that they must be part of it,

730
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: and that's why something else happened. Well, I found some

731
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: of the answers to some of these things, and I

732
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: want to kind of put some of it to be well,

733
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: not necessarily debunking, as taking some of the wind out

734
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: of the sales. All right, Okay, remember that funny phone

735
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: call that the Sauders got, Yeah, the refrigerator phone call.

736
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: You will hear said that there was laughing in the

737
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: background and the woman giggled when she was talking to her. Well,

738
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that that's true. And actually they

739
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: tracked down the phone call and it was a woman

740
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: who lived in the area, and she did totally called

741
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: the wrong number. Well, and she could have been giggling.

742
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: I mean, she could have been drunk. She could have

743
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: been drunk. It's it's Christmas Eve at midnight. She accidentally

744
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: dialed the wrong number because she was drunk, giggled and said,

745
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: oh sorry, we'll see now. But the thing is their

746
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: theories out there to say that that phone call was

747
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: a warning to the family, waking them up so that

748
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: they could wake up and get out of the house

749
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: before I know, I know. But the point is they

750
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: figured out who the lady was, and she really was

751
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: trying to call somebody else, and she really did she

752
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: really did. She remembered Miss Dyling evidently, yes, or the

753
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: operator missconnector one of the two. I guess that was

754
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: an operator, was an operator system but it was a

755
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: wrong number. Um, we maybe the operator was drunk. Okay,

756
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a bunch of members in here. Remember

757
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: when Mr Sauder couldn't find his ladder, Yeah, somebody stole it.

758
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: They did. It was down in embankment. Turns out there was.

759
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: This is the weird thing. It was some guy on

760
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: their property either pre or post the fire, trying to

761
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: steal things, and one of the things he was trying

762
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: to steal was their ladder. It had to have been

763
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: before well I don't know if he was trying to

764
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: steal things before the fire, because he was caught after

765
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: the fact on the property trying to steal stuff, so

766
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: he didn't care that the property was on fire. He

767
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: was trying to steal things, which is just the dumbest

768
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: thing in the world. It sounds to me like he

769
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 1: because the ladder was gone right after the family back.

770
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: The ladder was gone, so he was there before the

771
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: fire started. He said he stole the ladder to cut

772
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: the phone line, and admittedly the phone company said that, yeah,

773
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: the phone line looked like it was cut, but it

774
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: was also cut at the top of the pole, which

775
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: nobody believed that this guy would have could have climbed

776
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: all the way up there with the ladder and cut

777
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: the line. Also, why the hell would he cut the line?

778
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Why did it look like it was cut? Then, according

779
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: to the phone I'm guessing that it wasn't. It wasn't

780
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: pulled by pressure and snapped or cut with a knife.

781
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: It looked like it was actually cut with ply or snips,

782
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: is the impression I got, but right, But the question

783
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: still stands, why was the phone line cut if the

784
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: guy couldn't have gotten up there with the ladder. I

785
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: to be honest, the house was on fire and the

786
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: walls were falling in, and I'm betting that the walls

787
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: fell over and pulled the wire and it snapped and

788
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: looked like it was cut. That's my personal opinion, totally

789
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: totally the way that I would explain Nash. But nobody

790
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: believed this guy that he cut the line he did.

791
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: Eventually he got arrested for I'm not sure whether it

792
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: was the attempt or the actual success in stealing things

793
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: from the property. He was stealing block and tackle, which,

794
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: if you don't know, block and tackle is it's pullies

795
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: and hooks and ropes used to pick up heavy things.

796
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: Mr Sauder hauled freight. He had to pick up heavy

797
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: things by himself. He had a police Stone's weird that

798
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: that would be what you would say, just try and steal,

799
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: but sure, well, kind of untraceable, totally totally useful in

800
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: an area where a lot of manual labor takes place.

801
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: Um oh okay, yeah, here's the other thing we talked

802
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: about John a little bit, uh and the fact that

803
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: he had shaken the children awake. What I don't think

804
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: we've talked about, and you don't always see, is that

805
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: George Jr. And John, both of them their hair was

806
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: singed when they got out of the house, which means

807
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: the flames were big enough and hot enough that it

808
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: was burning hair when they ran out, So it's very

809
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: possible that those children woke up and tried to run

810
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: down the stairs and just wasn't too hot, couldn't get out, yeah,

811
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: the window, and like gone out that way. Well, and

812
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that we're going to cover

813
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: is that people talk about, well, why weren't the children

814
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: at the windows screening for their parents to save them.

815
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about the reasons why that

816
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: might not have happened, because we're going to do that

817
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: in the theories section. But we're still not done with

818
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: Steve's question section, which is what we're in. Remember Mr

819
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: Sauder said that he tried to start the truck and

820
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: back it up to to get into the window, and

821
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: neither of the trucks started, which must have been a

822
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: sabotage job. Yeah, no, they were probably diesel trucks, was

823
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: the main thing. And I don't know if anybody has

824
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: tried to start a diesel truck when it's cold, but

825
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: it's a pain in the butt, especially in nineteen forties

826
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: era truck which is does not like cold weather. That's

827
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: the reason they made things like starter fluid, which is

828
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: um ether. You know, you spray ether into the carburetor

829
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: and it it sparks it to life. That's why his

830
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: trucks probably didn't start. It was freezing cold, cold enough

831
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: to freeze the water. And plus uh, nobody ever found

832
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: any evidence of sabotage because somebody had, say, stolen his

833
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: distributor cap or something like that, that would have been

834
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: discovered and he would have said something about it, but

835
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: there was no evidence of it. He was also I

836
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: mean obviously he was also panicked, right, so you you know,

837
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: when you're in that kind of panic mode, you try

838
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: something like twice and you're like, I'm not it's ruined.

839
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: I gotta go do something else, instead of you know, saying, Okay,

840
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: well it's cold, I just keep trying and I'll probably

841
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: eventually get or let it sit and let the globe

842
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: plugs heat up before you started, because you have to

843
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: do with these things. You can't just turn them on.

844
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: You can at first, but they tend not to work

845
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: very long when you do that. So there's there's a

846
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: bunch of questions. I mean, we've already talked about the

847
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: spatial layout of the house. I'm very curious how that

848
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: house was laid out. I think we already said this,

849
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: but one of the things that was the cause of

850
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: the fires is attributed to the fuse box being bad.

851
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: The family has said that that can't be which we'll

852
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: get into, but I would like to know where the

853
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: fuse box was in relation to that, Like that office

854
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: space that they say caught on fire, it was probably

855
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: an older houses. Typically there it's in the basement the

856
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: fuse box. Yeah, typically see Now in this case, I'm

857
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's outside because they're there are stories of

858
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: people wandering around outside of the house before the fire

859
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: and looking at the fuse box. So it was an

860
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: exterior fuse box, wasn't an interior It's actually it's an

861
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: old style thing to do. They're on the outside. I

862
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: my family has a house where we had to build

863
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: a little faux building around at exterior fuse box because

864
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: it gets wet. Yeah, you don't want to get in

865
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: wet is electricity my house, My house is from the

866
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: nine twenties and it's got a fuse box inside. So

867
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: but it's in the basement. It's like when the stairs

868
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: between the main house and the basement. That's where it

869
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: is in my house too. And it maybe that's a retrofit.

870
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: You never know. That's that's possible. Yeah, but I mean, regardless,

871
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. The only thing about fuse boxes is

872
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: that even if it was in good shape, something a

873
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: lot of people used to do back in the other days,

874
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: which was stupid, but they did it anyway, is if

875
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: they were having trouble with fuses burning out, they would

876
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: bypass the fuse by putting a any in the socket.

877
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: You know, that's possible. Sad said something like that. Yeah.

878
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: Mr Sauders said that he had recently had the fuse

879
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: box service by the electric company, so he was positive

880
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: that there was no problem with it. I don't know

881
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 1: how long ago it was service. I don't know. Whenever

882
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: I think of Christmas in like that kind of time,

883
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: I think of a Christmas story right where they're like, now,

884
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: which fuse is it? That? That one? And they, you know,

885
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: blow it because there's like twenty different strings of lights

886
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: attached to everything and all that stuff there, and there

887
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: were not that many plugs necessarily, and I don't think

888
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: that there was. They would have had gads and cads

889
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: of Christmas lights like we do these days. Maybe not,

890
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: but it's still possible that, say, if you've got a

891
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: fifty nap circuit and you put a much much beef

892
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 1: your fuse into that. It was also freezing cold. Yeah,

893
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: they may have been doing things. Maybe a kid, one

894
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: of the kids got an electric toy that he plugged in.

895
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean, good call, thought about a toy. There's always stuff. Yeah,

896
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me that it could have been a fusepot.

897
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think maybe it was outside. Yeah, yeah,

898
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: it supposedly was outside, but it could have been on

899
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: the outside of the office. Yes, it could have. That's

900
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: the thing I just want to I just want to

901
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: have this freaking house was laid out. I really I

902
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: can't find it. We're moving on. It's hard to say

903
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: where it started too, because I've read a couch and

904
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: firefighters and experts on if it started at the basement,

905
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: they can travel up through the walls and be all

906
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: you clear up to the top floor of the house

907
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: and no time at all. Yeah. No, fire doesn't just

908
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: move vertically horizontally and it'll it'll race away and then

909
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: go up. Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, that one. When they

910
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: opened the front door to flu, they probably gave it

911
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: a boost and with a lot of air into the house. Yeah. Well,

912
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: and that's why I was looking at you like when

913
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: you're crazy. When you were like, they should open the window,

914
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: I was like, why would they open the window? No?

915
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: I mean I for escape, Yes, of course us. But

916
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: it might well and they might have they might have

917
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: tried to do that. The thing about it is is, again,

918
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: my old house, it's got you. It's got double paint windows,

919
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: and some of them are not easy to open. Yeah,

920
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 1: especially especially if they've been painted shut. Maybe that happens

921
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: to you paint them a couple of times, then you're done. Yeah,

922
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: you paint them and then you close the window, not

923
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: realizing you've sealed it, or you just don't even open

924
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: the window while you're painting. Yeah, that awesome idea. Okay Ogi,

925
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: shall we get into theories. Yes, there are not a

926
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: lot of theories here. We have three. Basically. That is

927
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: the first theory that we have, and it's, as I

928
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: said before, the family's favorite theory. Okay, mainly I know

929
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: this is their's because it means that their kids are

930
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: alive and they didn't get hard. This is like you

931
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: liking a lot of the theories that we have. It,

932
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is not my theory. This is

933
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: not the one that I think is right. Yeah, but

934
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: this is the one they like. Yep. Well, people have

935
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: said that, Yeah, I know, the children were totally abducted,

936
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: were not in the house. They were taken before the fire.

937
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: And there's a number of different ways that that goes.

938
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: One of them is that it was Mrs Sauder's family

939
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: members who stole the children before the house was set fire. Okay,

940
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: they were taken from the house and then they were

941
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: split up and sent to different relatives. And this could

942
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: be I'm sorry, it could have been Mrs Sder's relatives,

943
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: it could have been somebody else. It's because of the

944
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: they call it the Old World network. Mr Sauder was

945
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: very vocal about his opinions, and it's thought that people

946
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: were not too excited about his opinions. He uh, he

947
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: didn't like Mussolini. He thought Mussolini was a nut job.

948
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, because Mussolini wasn't job, was already dead by

949
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,919
Speaker 1: this point, I know, I know. Don't don't get ahead

950
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: of me here, Joe. You don't take the wind out

951
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: of my sales on this one, damnit. But they say

952
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: that it was or that he was bad mouthing things

953
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: about the Old Country, and maybe people in the Old Country,

954
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: and that news got back to the Old country, said

955
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: person found out and said, do this as retribution. That's

956
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: the simple version of the body of the abduction theory.

957
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: Because you know, as you both know, the Italians are

958
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: nothing if not the most horrible, vindictive and because somebody

959
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: is kind of running their mouth a little bit in America,

960
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: you hear about it in the Old world. And what

961
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: you do is say, all right, burn their freaking house

962
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: down and steal their kids and separate them two relatives.

963
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: But because you know you want them to like stay

964
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: in the family, but also those relatives, they will never

965
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 1: say anything, of course, not ever, because they're on our side,

966
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: that whole thing. She's absolutely right. Yeah, you know, that's

967
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: how I was raised by my second on because my

968
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: mom started mad nothing everything. How it happened in my family,

969
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I know. And sooner or later,

970
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: of course, you know, the kids, uh, the kids get

971
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: older and they might want to re establish contact with

972
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: the well. But like I mean, none of them were

973
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: so young that they wouldn't remember. I mean, they were

974
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: all older. Fourteen was the oldest one, yeah, and youngest

975
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: was six. They would have all remembered their childhood and

976
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: that they had this thing happened and they were taken away.

977
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: And you know, especially at fourteen, you start feeding a

978
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: kid alie like, they're probably gonna think twice about that.

979
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: Six maybe six year olds you can get away with it,

980
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: probably get away with it, even eight year old. But

981
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old you're gonna have You're gonna have

982
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: to have him under lock and key because he's going

983
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: to like get away and re established contact with his family, right, Yeah,

984
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: so that's crazy, yes, but sorry. The only tie that

985
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: I've ever found to the old world family connection thing,

986
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: and this is really weak tie, is that that photo

987
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: that was Lewis, you know, that had the stuff written

988
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: on the back of it, the A nine zero, one,

989
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: three two or three five? Um. I guess that was

990
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: supposedly a postal code in Palermo, Sicily. Now is that now?

991
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,959
Speaker 1: Or was that correct? I don't know. I didn't bother

992
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: to look it up because I don't actually think that

993
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: there's anything too that I actually feel like that has

994
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: been inserted the story, and that was the I don't

995
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: know there were zip codes. I have no idea when

996
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: it's Italy started the zip code system. I don't know

997
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: why you don't look this stuff up because it takes

998
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: like a two second Google search while you two are

999
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: back and forth do a thing about it had a time, Okay, So, um,

1000
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: Palermo Sicily. Uh, there's zip code, their postal code. Their

1001
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: zip codes look like United States zip codes. There's there's

1002
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: not an A or anything like that, Okay, but Palermo does.

1003
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: It's the ranges um from nine zero zero one zero

1004
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: to nine zero one one. It's within that range. There

1005
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: was something there without the A. I don't know what.

1006
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: I guess it's a P. A is there like code right,

1007
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: like we have o R for Oregon. So maybe Palermo.

1008
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: So it could have just meant A. I mean, I

1009
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: could have they meant that. I don't know. And it

1010
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: was it was where either one of the Stauds from Sicily.

1011
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there was a question off top

1012
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: of my head and I remember, but I don't think

1013
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: it's worth taking the time to dig into because I

1014
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 1: still think that this is just a convenient thing. Yeah,

1015
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: the photograph I think was just the work of a

1016
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: crank because you know, again the brother Frankie reference. Yeah,

1017
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't make sense. Yeah, let's move on

1018
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: to the next theory. Oh yeah, this is the one

1019
00:55:54,480 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: that UFOs damn it um. So what is uh that

1020
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: they did die in the fire, and this is the

1021
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: one that actually is probably right. Here's here's what's the

1022
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: reason that I think about that. When you read about

1023
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: the reactions of people in fires and in house fires

1024
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: from firefighters, there's a break in how people react, and

1025
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: it's based on their age at around the teen. So

1026
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen, you run, you run away from a fire.

1027
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: But if anyone younger than that is in that situation,

1028
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 1: they hide, They try to hide from the fire. Kids

1029
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: naturally hide from things. But you would expect that the

1030
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: twelve and the fourteen yeard at least we have tried

1031
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: to get out of there. Well, the age doesn't mean

1032
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: that that's gonna happen. It's kind of an age range.

1033
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: But also if they're in there with their younger siblings

1034
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: and they're trying to get them, you know, the kids

1035
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: are hiding and they're saying like, no, come on, we

1036
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: gotta go, and then coaxed out quick enough, and then

1037
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: suddenly either they're overcome by smoke or the stairway is

1038
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 1: impassable and the as we said, you know, the windows

1039
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: could have been painted shut or on them and gotten

1040
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: out the smoke hiding and smoke annilation would totally explain

1041
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: why they weren't in the windows because they were hiding,

1042
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: and then they died because of the smoke travel upward too.

1043
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it genuinely could be that the fourteen

1044
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: year old was the only one in the room saying

1045
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: you gotta go, like coax, You're not going to necessarily

1046
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: leave your three siblings, four siblings in there, you know,

1047
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: because if they're hiding, you're saying, Okay, come on, what

1048
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: what I don't know what their names were on Betty, like,

1049
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: let's go. Kind of got you know, John, the twenty

1050
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: three year old had enough sense to get out. The

1051
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: next kid, the oldest one. At that age, you have

1052
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: these weird, you know, beliefs that your your totally gonna

1053
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: save everybody and I can totally make this happen, and

1054
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: then it totally turns out your wrong diet of smoke

1055
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: in elation, thinking that I can just get them out

1056
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: and then I can run them down the stairs and

1057
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: everything will be fine, and Mom and dadd'll hug us.

1058
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: I also don't think they did, Like we did a

1059
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: lot of fire training. We learned, you know, it's the

1060
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: duck and the stop, drop and roll and they like

1061
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: you crawl under the smoke and all that stuff. And

1062
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: I don't think they used to do that then, So

1063
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: I don't know that, not as much. So they may

1064
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: not have just known, you know, since it's drilled into

1065
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: in a young age and in this day and age.

1066
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: But they could have been different jump you know. Yeah,

1067
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: the nation was not as safety crazy, I might say

1068
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: conscious as crazy as we are today. Safety crazy. It's insane. Yeah,

1069
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to stay on track with

1070
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: the story. Let's do it. Another thing that I find

1071
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: interesting is the bones of the children. I had an

1072
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: idea and I'd read some of this online and I

1073
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: got ahold of I got a hold of our some

1074
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: of our experts and Nina, who I got ahold of

1075
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: huge help. So thank you to her. She really kind

1076
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: of helped me on. This is what she's what happens

1077
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: to bones in fire? What does the human bone do? Yep?

1078
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: If you know, like we talked about with cremation, you know,

1079
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: they don't just completely disintegrate, at least not right away.

1080
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: There is a five level scale of how bones break

1081
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: down because your organic matter, the organic matter will eventually

1082
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: burn yes in in some fashion or another. Well, there's

1083
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: a scale that's called the cro Gasmin Scale CGS. It's

1084
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, one through five, one being yep, totally a

1085
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: burn skeleton sitting right there too. That's a nice human

1086
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: shaped ash, you have, nice human sand. Level five, Level

1087
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: one is yep, it's totally a skeleton all the way

1088
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: to level five, which is okay. If the fire had

1089
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,959
Speaker 1: burned hot for almost seven hours, it's completely plausible that

1090
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: those bones had gotten to level three the CGS. Level three,

1091
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: that level, the description of that level is major portions

1092
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: of arms and legs missing, the head is present, but unrecognizable,

1093
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: widened area for disartake, disarticulated remains. Forensic anthropologists called for

1094
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: identification process super broke down. They're still bones, but they're

1095
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: coming apart in places like you know, the skull is

1096
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: made up of several pieces. Guessing unrecognizable skull means it's

1097
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,479
Speaker 1: not fused together anymore, and all the all the things

1098
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: that hold your bones together will have been burned away.

1099
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: It's all gonna fall apart. It's not gonna be a skeleton.

1100
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: It's gonna be chunks of bone at this point. It's

1101
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: not gonna be solid bone, is the way that I understood,

1102
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: And that could be wrong because that's before the volunteer

1103
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: fire step all over or somebody chars a high pressure

1104
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: hose on your remains. Yep. There's also the fact that

1105
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: if you know anything about how bones develop, children's bones

1106
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: obviously aren't full grown, and they have the growth lines

1107
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: or growth plates in them. Those those are actually made

1108
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: not from the same material as your bones, but they're

1109
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: actually made from cartilage. Cartilage burns easier than the bone,

1110
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: like super fast, which means that the things that are

1111
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: holding these different areas who bone together are cartilage, which

1112
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: would have burned up, which makes them breakdown and be

1113
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: even harder to recognize. So so the whole idea that

1114
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: they burned in the fire is a little radical. I'm

1115
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: still liking the UFO abduction better, but I got this,

1116
01:01:55,240 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: that's a sensible theory. Oh my god, it's radicals from

1117
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: the man who turns oper all the time. Okay, So

1118
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: I personally think that this is this is kind of

1119
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: evidence that they were probably in the fire. But we're

1120
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: going to go onto our last theory, which is that

1121
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: the children were murdered. Were they murdered, were they abducted

1122
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: and murdered or just murdered in place? I don't know,

1123
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: to be quite honest with you. It really kind of

1124
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: depends on the version of the theory that you get.

1125
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's the the who and the how.

1126
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: Who did it? And then how did they do it?

1127
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: And we're gonna tackle that in two parts, the who

1128
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: and then sort of maybe the how. Okay, we've got

1129
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: three groups that are pointed at. Joe brought up the

1130
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: first one, which is the mob. We also have the

1131
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: k k K and of course the Italian fascists. They're

1132
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: also pointed at as the ones who are responsible this.

1133
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: Um well, the Fascist because to the fact that Mr

1134
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 1: Sauder was bad mouthing the Mussolini and everything that the

1135
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: Italians were doing in the war. Because he was definitely

1136
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: the only one, yeah, I mean, Solder, Yeah, he was

1137
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: definitely the only person bad mouthing Mussolini. And of course yeah, yeah,

1138
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: he's probably the only one in this country. Yeah no. Um,

1139
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 1: so that's the reason that the that the fascist did

1140
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: at the KKK. Well, the solders were Catholic, and the

1141
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: kk doesn't like Catholics or Catholic immigrants. Yes, that is

1142
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: even worse sometimes to them. Um, And they were business owners,

1143
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,439
Speaker 1: which seems to enrage the k k K even more.

1144
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: And the mob, well, it's the mob because Mr Solder

1145
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: had a business and the mob was trying to get

1146
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: into that area. And I mean there is some historic

1147
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: evidence of the mob having a problem with a lot

1148
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: of cold well they were they it was the shipping, yeah,

1149
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, not like a small time business dude. And

1150
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, the bomb thing is total garbage because the

1151
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: mob really wasn't in that area at the time. It's

1152
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: just an easy you were Italian obviously the mob. I

1153
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: think I made this that same statement in a recent episode,

1154
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: knowing how foolish it sounds, and intentionally yeah, yeah, I

1155
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: mean it's it's hard to believe they were in West Virginia.

1156
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean there are times on the you know, in

1157
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: certain other areas they'll ask they'll just basically demand protection money.

1158
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: They were in a protection racket and if you don't cooperate,

1159
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: then's something bad does happen. But even so, I think

1160
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: they would have probably choose chosen probably a less deadly

1161
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: way to send their message, I would think, so, yeah,

1162
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: and picked a more profitable family. Yeah yeah, yeah. And

1163
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: and the KKK. It's just that's such a stretch for me.

1164
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: The one that just I can't understand this every time.

1165
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: It's the fascist. Okay, like Joe's talked about, Mussolini was

1166
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: killed in the Spring of the Italians were defeated by

1167
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: the Allies. In the early Mussolini had been you know,

1168
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: taken down as prime minister. I think it was three

1169
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, yeah, two years before he

1170
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: was killed. And he was killed by the resistance, the

1171
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: Italian resistance, and hung for everybody to see. His body

1172
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: was hung naked and upside down. Yes, a train station

1173
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: or something something like that. So, I mean, why if

1174
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: the leader has obviously been taken down and the party's

1175
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: in disarray, why would this one family be targeted for

1176
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: saying bad things against Maybe maybe the family was actually fleet,

1177
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: maybe he was the son of someone really important in

1178
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: Italy and they had they had come because he was fleeing.

1179
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: Stop making that face. I'm trying to fill his heart.

1180
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: There's no no, you're right, there's yeah. I mean, even

1181
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: even the solders themselves, I don't think I ever speculated

1182
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: about anything like that, they would have known. For the

1183
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: most part, Now, they didn't. They didn't think that that

1184
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: was although there are bits of the story that have

1185
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: left out because I can't corroborate that people always attribute

1186
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: to the fascist did it bit, But I don't. I

1187
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: don't buy it. I don't. Yeah, I think they have,

1188
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: especially since they you know, they hired so many private investigators,

1189
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: and they would have known if if if any group

1190
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: we're going to do this as a terrorist act against

1191
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: the family, they would have made themselves known and they

1192
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been this huge, big thing. How did it happen? Yeah.

1193
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: The thing about it is too, is that Mussolini in

1194
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: the forties was not not terribly popular in America, and

1195
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: so lots of people were bad mouthing him and their

1196
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: houses didn't get burned. So uh yeah. So we talked

1197
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: about the who. Now let's talk about the how. The

1198
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: how according to that they were murdered is well, they

1199
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: were murdered in the house and the fire, right, it's

1200
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: pretty simple. Yeah, but how so do you remember the

1201
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 1: official the official description or cause of the fire was electrical.

1202
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: People say that the fuse box was sabotaged whether it

1203
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 1: be jamming a penny in it, as Joe had mentioned,

1204
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: or doing something out putting an inappropriate Yeah, something as

1205
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 1: simple as that. Now, the Sauters say, there's no way

1206
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: that it was an electrical problem because there were lights

1207
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: on during the fire off, and she did. But I'm

1208
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: guessing that maybe some lights got hit on the way

1209
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,959
Speaker 1: out and turned on. You run by and you flip

1210
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: the switch that you can run through the wall and

1211
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: not fall over the But the point, as they said,

1212
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: there was no way it could have been electrical fire

1213
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: because there were lights on in the house, except I'm sorry,

1214
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: a circuit can go bad and cause a fire somewhere

1215
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: and the other circuits can still be working fine or

1216
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: a good amount of time. Well maybe their house only

1217
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: had one circuit. Yeah, I don't think that's And they

1218
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: go back to Christmas lights. It was the Christmas lights

1219
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: that were on. But the last time I broke a fuse,

1220
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: you know, half the lights stayed on and half the

1221
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: lights were off, And exactly that's what a few system does. Also,

1222
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: let's be fair, if you're running for your life out

1223
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: of your house, you're not going to necessarily be like, oh,

1224
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: that one light fixture is out, and the other one

1225
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,440
Speaker 1: I think this is they were observing it from outside

1226
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: once they had escaped from them. Even then, how are

1227
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: you going to know necessarily, like which ones of those

1228
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: are on and which ones aren't. I don't know, honestly,

1229
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. And that's I mean,

1230
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: that's why I don't think that that that's not accurate.

1231
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: The other way that this that the house was set

1232
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: fire according to these theories is that it was firebombed.

1233
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: There was you remember, Miss Sutter said a midnight or

1234
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: so she heard something hit the rough and roll down. Yeah, okay.

1235
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: When they came back to the house a day or

1236
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: so or a couple of days later to fill the

1237
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: hole in, yeah, I'm guessing that that right. But maybe

1238
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: it was after that. Their daughter Marian said she found

1239
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: a weird, heavy, melted rubber ball thing, which Mr Sodder

1240
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 1: was pretty sure and other people seemed to coral agree with.

1241
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is right or not, that

1242
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: it was akin to a napalm bomb. Napalm bomb, Wow,

1243
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: that was hard to say. Yeah, a lot of ls

1244
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,799
Speaker 1: in there. I didn't know they made those out of rubber.

1245
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 1: I According to this theory, they do. I don't know

1246
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: that they did, but according to this, somebody threw a

1247
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: fireball on top of the house and that's what caught

1248
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: the house on fire. I guess I thought that would

1249
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: make more of an explosion noise. No, Actually, a napalm

1250
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 1: doesn't explode, melts through and then it burns, and so

1251
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: it would have taken an hour and a half from

1252
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 1: the time that it landed on the roof to catch

1253
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: the house on fire enough to wake people up exactly.

1254
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean, then I've got it outside. If you if

1255
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 1: you've got a fire by my house, you you want

1256
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: to chuck the bomb into the house, you want to

1257
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: go like walk up to say the basement and open

1258
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: or break a window. Yeah, and just open a coal

1259
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: shoot and drop it in. Yeah. I mean at the

1260
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: scene of the fire, you're gonna find all kinds of

1261
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: melted stuff. That was probably some of their own possessions. Yeah.

1262
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: It probably was like a weird toy that they were

1263
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: supposed to open the next morning, like a rubber ball. Yeah.

1264
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: I don't think it was like a soccer ball. I

1265
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 1: think this was kind of thicker, but god knows what

1266
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 1: it was. It could have been anything melted in misshapen

1267
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: and just looked round dish, really just look round dish. Yeah,

1268
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 1: I don't. I just the whole napalm ball napalm you too, Yeah, yeah,

1269
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: I don't think that the house was fire bombed. I mean,

1270
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: this is one of those things again because it can't

1271
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 1: corroborate it. We're not going to talk about the fact

1272
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 1: that somebody said they saw fireballs being thrown in the

1273
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: sky that night because I just think that that's something

1274
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 1: that was tacked on later. Yes, so that's our story.

1275
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,680
Speaker 1: Those are all the facts that I can find on it,

1276
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: both proven and some unproven, and I don't really put

1277
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot of stock in but that's all I've got.

1278
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I sleeve sadly think that children perished in

1279
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: the fire on if you too have any different they

1280
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: unfortunately died in the fire. Yeah, no, it's it's I

1281
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: think they did too. It's absolutely certain, but it's possible

1282
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: that it was arson. It's or possible more likely it

1283
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: just began accidentally. Maybe maybe the most house fires do. Yeah, yeah, electrical,

1284
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,839
Speaker 1: the furnace maybe. I mean, there's all kinds of wors

1285
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: the time of your cat knock something over, because cats

1286
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: are diabolical creatures. Well, there's the whole the Christmas tree

1287
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 1: fire problem. Right, You've got your Christmas tree and by

1288
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: that time of the year, it's actually probably much drier

1289
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 1: than it's going to be because you've had it for

1290
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks and you have your one faulty

1291
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: plug and with your Christmas lights as wrapped around. This

1292
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: is the thing, this happens. I was just thinking, I've

1293
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: never heard of Christmas tree you never hear that. Assume

1294
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: they did, but I guess they might not have. Yeah,

1295
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean because I've had Christmas lights

1296
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 1: that my family's had for thirty years and have plugged

1297
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 1: them in and then touch the plug and it was hot.

1298
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: All it'll send us spark out, you know or whatever.

1299
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: If the fuse blue, um, you know, sometimes that can

1300
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: send us spark out the plug and catches the whole

1301
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: thing on fire. That's that's It's just a million ways, yeah,

1302
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 1: a million, ten million ways. I don't know. Alright, ladies

1303
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Well we're going to go ahead and stop here,

1304
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: because it's all we really have. We can just keep

1305
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: talking about the millions of different No, I really I

1306
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: don't want to keep doing that. Speculations. If you want

1307
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: of the Sider kids get in touch with us, we'd

1308
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: like to hear from Yes, yes, well they can get

1309
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: in touch with us by sending us an email. How's

1310
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: that Okay? We do have an email address. It is

1311
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. You're welcome to

1312
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: send story suggestions, comments, feedback, whatever whatever you feel like

1313
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: you can send there. You can also put comments on

1314
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:10,520
Speaker 1: our website. The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com

1315
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: and we've got our links to research as well as

1316
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: the episode there. And like I said, you can leave comments. Um,

1317
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:19,640
Speaker 1: I have noticed a funny thing lately, which is I

1318
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: think that everybody thinks that the internet is a free state,

1319
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: when whereas our website is actually well it's a little

1320
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 1: more autocratic. We will trim comments, so people are welcome

1321
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: to leave comments, but don't mean people ever get their

1322
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: comments whatever you want. Yeah, but if you have like

1323
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 1: feedback and things like that, we love to have a

1324
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: conversation with you about that. So we can't explore that

1325
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 1: a little more. And the face or the website is

1326
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: not necessarily the best place for that. Probably the email

1327
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: address email is the best place. Yeah, just as a

1328
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 1: as I mentioned absolutely um no, Like I said on

1329
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 1: the website, we've got the episodes. You can stream the

1330
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: episodes from the website. You can download them from the website.

1331
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: You can stream them from anywhere else you want to

1332
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: on the internet. You can also stream or download directly

1333
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 1: from iTunes. If you're on iTunes, please do leave us

1334
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: a comment and a rating. We do appreciate those. We

1335
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: also are going to be on social media, so we've

1336
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 1: got the Facebook group and the page. Lots of fun,

1337
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: lots of things going on there. It's been crazy busy lately.

1338
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 1: And uh then of course we are on Twitter. We

1339
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: are Thinking Sideways on Twitter, So no g in the middle.

1340
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: And last, but not least, if you're enjoying the podcast

1341
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: and you're enjoying what we do and you'd like to

1342
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: help out, visit Patreon. It's patreon dot com slash Thinking

1343
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: Sideways totally volunteer system if you want to take part

1344
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: in that. Think that now I got everything. I didn't

1345
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: even have to look at the list this time after

1346
01:14:55,439 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: two years, got it down. All right, ladies and gentlemen,

1347
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,719
Speaker 1: Well we're going to get out of here next week.

1348
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: We will be doing more of Thinking Sideways month wanted.

1349
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: We've got a special one for you. We're gonna tell

1350
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 1: you what it is because we're jerks that way, but

1351
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 1: you'll just have to wait. Yeah. Exciting, so exciting. Yeah,

1352
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,519
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you guys next week. Everybody, Hi, guys,