WEBVTT - Joel Selvin 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left That's podcast. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:18.400 My guest today is legendary music writer Joel Selder. Great 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.439 to be here, Bob, Good to see you. Okay, let's 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:24.079 start with you did the Sammy Hagar book. It was 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.080 a huge bestseller, number one. Did you have any anticipation 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.080 was going to be that successful. I knew that I 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:37.199 could get a very generous book deal with Sammy just 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:42.440 based on his name. Uh, I think sam this interesting. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.080 Sammy had to do with the Van Halen thing. But 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.040 I knew that that he would be likely candidate for 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.360 a good sized book deal. And I just quit the 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:56.320 paper after thirty six years. So on San Francisco, chronic right, 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.360 I was there as there pop music critic, and and uh, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.880 Sammy had mentioned something years before, but I didn't think 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.760 it was a really good idea yet. And then you know, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.840 like suddenly I thought it was a good idea. No, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.920 I had no idea that it was a number one bestseller. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.520 And I got a credit the one and only, the 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.360 late great John Carter. Did you know Carter? Of course, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.800 Carter the writer of the lyrics of Incense and Pepper, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.560 amongst so many I mean private Dancer. He brought Tina 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.720 Turner back, just an unbelievable list of things, and he 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.039 was managing Sammy and yes, I do that. And he 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.959 marshalled Sammy's fan club and cut him a deal for 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.800 pre orders. And the day that book came out, we 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.200 were already in the forties on Amazon, and by the 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.319 end of that day we were in the top five. Wow. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.280 I didn't know that. To what degree was Sammy's appearance 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.360 on Howard Stern a factor. So we sat that day 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.000 and he did Howard Stern and he did Good Morning America, 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.200 and we watched the things squirret up the charts, and 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.080 every time it hit the new time section, you know, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.200 at time zone, and it was hilarious. And and and 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.000 then like I'm walking home back to my cousin's apartment 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.200 on the Upper West Side, and my agent calls and 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.760 they've already gone into the third printing, and he calls 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.960 up to tell me that Walmart just ordered twenty books. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.200 And I'm at the Columbus Circle and standing in front 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:22.799 of some shoe store I can't afford. So I went 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.400 in and bought a pair of shoes and expensive. With 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.200 those shoes, they tell I mean more I'd spend on shoes, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:35.720 and these are my best seller shoes. Okay, Now the 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.399 book is fascinating because you wrote it in Sammy's voice. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.880 How did you decide? How did you perfect that experience? Oh? 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.960 That was the whole mission, right, because that's what the 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.840 readers want. They want to sit down and feel like 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.480 Sammy's telling them the story. Right. So I had Sammy 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.480 tell me the story. I tape recorded it, and then 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.000 I sat there and fussed around with it until like 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.880 red like sentences and stuff like that. A lot of 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.440 it is straight out of Sammy's mouth, and all I 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.520 had to do was put a period and a capital 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.880 letter in the middle. Uh, there's very little of me 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.440 in there, and what it is is transparent. Right. You 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.760 can't see me because you can't see you at all. Certainly, 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.040 having read your brother books, I didn't realize that much 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.520 was actually straight from Sammy. So wonderful. Uh, it really 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.519 feels like him, and he's he was. He did such 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.960 an incredible job at telling his story. He he's in 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.959 charge of his own narrative and a great degree. That's 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.600 not always true of people. So how did you meet Sammy? 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.640 Oh Man? So I I had a brief swing through 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:44.080 college at Riverside. You see Riverside, and I hung and 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:48.000 swung in the musicians down there. Uh, Sammy is from Fontana, 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.600 and I didn't know Sammy wasas from Riverside, but he 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:52.560 joined a band with a bunch of guys that I 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.520 did know, and they started coming up to San Francisco. 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.680 They were the Justice Brothers. Okay, but what brothers? Justice Brothers? Okay? 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.960 And you bet? And you knew the band from having 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.560 been briefly in Riverside. Yeah, I knew the bass player 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.440 and the guitar player, and the drummer was Sammy's friend. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.160 He's still playing with Sammy, David Louser, but really yeah yeah, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.720 and uh Bobby Anglin was an unbelievable guitar player, and 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.280 and Jeff Nicholson was off selling uh Turner Burne Christian 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.480 T shirts. But the Justice Brothers used to play this 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.120 real sort of top forty dump in San Francisco, and 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.800 I saw them there several times before Ronnie Montrose did. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.760 But I was there the night Ronnie Montrose came tell 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.560 us that story Montrose had been in. Uh, Sammy had 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.960 been in touch with Ronnie Montrose, who had just forming 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.320 his own band after leaving Van Morrison's band. So, you know, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.160 I'm not sure I know all that history. So Ronnie's 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.359 originally from where to the degree you remember, you know, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.520 he showed up in San Francisco with a band called 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.080 Sawbuck that made a lot of noise at a Tuesday 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.520 night audition in the last weeks of the film war 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.280 and got signed to Bill Graham Management. But I believe 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.679 they ever really recorded. And he's and he was bumping 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.520 around as a freelance guitarist when Van picked him up. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.640 And I think he'd also done at Edgar Winterstant Okay, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.400 how how long was he with Van? Oh? Just the 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.559 blink of an eye? So then one album and then 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.719 did he already have his deal with Warner Brothers. I 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.880 believe the deal was in place and he was looking 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.279 to put together this band and Sammy went over to 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.119 his house and they wrote space Station number six or whatever, 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.719 number nine. Yeah, well Sammy is a big number guy. Okay, 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.279 I gotta stop you. That means what, Oh he's all 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.760 about numerology? Oh really? Yeah? Okay, so that's when you 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.800 met Sammy? Yeah, Justice Brother's days. Oh you know the 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:48.599 famous Sammy's story about the van Halen review keep going. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.880 So he joins van Halen and does this tour in 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.040 his final date is at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.400 and I go out to review it. And essentially this 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.279 is before he's a van Halen or what he's Well, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.040 he's in van Halen, first tour of van Halen and 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.000 there he is at the end of the tour at 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.360 his hometown and he's got four shows. It's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.839 big deal and I'm there. Uh, and I write the 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.480 review and essentially the review says, too bad, they ruined 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:22.440 two perfectly decent bands, great line and uh the uh. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.160 Sammy gets on stage Monday night and it's just raging 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.880 at the audience and he and and using his typical 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.560 sort of profanity, he hands out what he thinks is 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.240 my home phone number, tells him to call me. So 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.000 I come home one morning, Uh and uh there's a 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.680 bunch of messages on the machine, remember message machine? And uh. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.600 The first one is some very halting voicing. H Mr Sylvan, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.360 I have your former home phone number in Oakland. Would 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.000 you please have your friends and business associates on you? 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.720 And I'm like, what you know. And on the next 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:01.479 one is, uh, Joel Roger from Bill Graham Presents and 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.560 Sammy Haygar gave every number out of the cow Palace 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.240 night chaste. You might get a few calls. The next 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:12.840 one is hey, fuck you. And that went on for 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.960 weeks and and Herb Kane, the gossip columnist in San Francisco, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.680 picked up on it. He asked me about it. I said, oh, no, no, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.200 for Sammy, that's what passes for wit. So how did 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.600 you make it up with Sammy? I don't know. Oh 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.920 so next time I see Sammy, use it's this Barry 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.640 and Music Awards, which is just a complete, you know, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.640 cluster bang. And when there used to be the BAM 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.800 newspaper used to read that religious Oh yeah, Well they 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.520 had this big awards where all the leaguers showed up 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.000 and they had this big suite of people that got 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:47.360 into you know, the semi v I p uh and uh. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.720 There it's real crowded, real gril crowded, and they're Sammy 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.720 sees me, goes Joel Joel, and man, I'm out of here. 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.960 Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, Joel. And just as 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.200 I hit the door, he goes Joel, I need your 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:05.440 new home now. That is funny. No, Sammy's funny. There's 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:09.280 no you know, he's obnoxious, but he's funny. Okay, at 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.160 this late date, do you still think that it was 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.200 a great life? Did they ruin ruin two good bands? Well, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.920 Sammy grew into van Halen, no question, and and I've 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.040 come to really appreciate a lot of it that I 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.000 didn't quite get at the same time. But I love 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.760 the David Lee Roth van Halen, and I agree with 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:34.319 you give Sammy's a better singer. But they completely lost 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.319 their sense of view where I was a big band 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.679 talking about Carter because Carter signed Sammy to Capitol and 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.400 they did that album Rid. That's how I first got 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.200 into it. But uh, before I can't drive fifty five, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.839 he was almost becoming a caricature of himself. Thank god 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.960 van Halen picked him up. So you're in Los Angeles, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:54.920 we are today? What brought you down here from the 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.040 Bay Area? So I'm doing some research for a book 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.200 that's forthcoming in like two years. I'm just starting out. 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.000 Uh it Um revolves around a number of people who 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.360 graduated from um University High School over in West l 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:15.560 A in ninety just one specific year. It's this class 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.040 was pretty rich with with interesting people, and it's where 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.720 Jan and Dean started. And in fact, before they were 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.640 out of high school. In the last semester, Jan and 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.800 Arnie were on the charts. They had a hit record 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.079 and they were walking around the school hallways. You can 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.959 only imagine, right and uh. But then I was also 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.679 this girl going around the hallway named Kathy Cohoner, who 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.720 Sandra d was portraying in a movie called Gidget. Uh. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:50.000 And the last Jan it was Dean kim Fowley. Kim Fowley. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.440 You know, I knew Kim a little bit towards the end. 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.520 One time I'm talking to him and he told me 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.720 he had twin sons with some woman that he had 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.360 no care and he gave me all the description. Then 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.280 he died. I heard from PRESI wests. He totally made 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.360 that up. So since he's gone, I don't know what 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.400 the truth is. Do you remember his uh going to 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.120 hospitals and and getting in a hospital gown and and 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.080 and putting Facebook posts up about how he's dying. No, yeah, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.679 he was. I was totally bogus too. Bally was not 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.600 a good guy though everybody said that, and by this 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.520 point he was running on fumes. I think I met 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.120 him at Tony Wilson's conference in Manchester, England. So he 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.520 was more about telling the old stories as opposed to 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.199 ruining people's lives and careers. Shall we say, Well, people 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:45.080 who remember him from high school, uh loathe him from 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.079 day one. So I mean this guy is uh is 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.959 kind of a fagan in this book, right. So it's 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.360 the book concentrating It's like, you know, whatever happened to 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.800 the class of written forty years ago. So there's other 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.200 characters involved. Nancy Sinatras in there, and I'm gonna like 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:10.000 put an ensemble together and it's gonna come to an 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:15.560 extraordinary climax. Um but um eight years later in June 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:20.040 of nineteen sixty six. Okay, without ruining. That is the 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.960 book about the class, or is the book about Jan 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.080 and Dean. It's about a group of people in that 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.680 class and they how they interact over that as years 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.520 and yes, Jan and Dean and central to that, the 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.240 Beach Boys will turn up real early. Lou Adler and 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.520 Herb Alpert turn up real early. Uh. The foulis in 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.439 it all throughout. Uh, there's other people involved. Bruce Johnston. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.200 Bruce Johnston was a neighbor of Jan Berry's. Really, I 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.120 had a conversation with the mid length. Actually I asked 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.640 him to do a podcast and he said, I said, 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.480 he says, how much does it pay? Oh that's my man, 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.120 But he thought I said, doesn't pay anything. Then I said, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.960 you don't have to do it. We were backstage at 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.280 the Beach Boys show and then I said, you know, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.240 just get your story down. He was my stories out there. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.000 I said, okay again, I want to press you. He. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.320 I saw him backstage to Tahoe back in the mid 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.320 eighties and you know, he said, say, what are you driving? 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.080 I could get you a good price on a new Chevy. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:23.520 Honest to god, what what was that about? He had 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.439 a friend, you know, I was kicking back some money. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.320 I I don't know what the deal was, but you know, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.839 rock stars. I love him right well, though I reminded me, 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.680 didn't remember they used you know all these like gas stations, 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.720 car washings have disappeared. And the seventies there was a 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.760 car washing Brentwood and I recognized him and I talked 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.680 about his new solo out and he gave me one 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.920 just like they're out of the back of his volvo. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.480 And when I told him, they started reminiscing about cars. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.160 Now you're also doing a book about Dave Mustain, right, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.240 I'm working with Dave on on a book about um 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.080 his album Rust in Peace and the making of it. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.680 It's it's it's pretty dramatic stuff and and and uh, 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.400 you know, loaded with sex, drugs and rock and roll. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.040 And is there any of the being kicked out of 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.120 metallic or that's just released covered that in his previous 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.280 best selling memoir. So he had a big hit memoir 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.720 almost twenty years ago. So he wants to come back 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.240 into the book world and he's like focused on this 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:27.160 particular album, which is some kind of landmark heavy metal album, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.640 and uh, his story around it is just, you know, 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:36.120 it's chaos and uh, hectic in insanity. And that was 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.480 that his idea, and he found you or vice person, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:44.440 it was his ideas. Sammy Hagar, you have a string 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.839 of successes as a book writer. To what degree people 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.839 come looking to you to write books with Well, it's 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:56.079 always the wrong person, you know. And uh, but I 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.600 had some really great experiences like that the book I 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.640 did with the tattoo artist at Hardy. That's just a 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.040 wonderful book and an important social document. It didn't really 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.360 sell a lot of copies because the ed Hardy brand 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.280 was so poisoned that nobody really realized that this was 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.600 the guy who started American because it had been sold, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:17.720 would have been sold, they'd been no, you know what 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.240 killed the you'll love this. What killed the brand and 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.800 it went out like a light switch. Was John Gosselin. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.400 You remember him, of course, so uh, he splits from 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.800 his wife, ok, plus eight, right, goes to the south 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.880 of France with his new girlfriend, hooks up with Christian Audagier, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.640 who's the running the ed Hardy brand, and he puts 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.360 this guy head to toe in ed Hardy gear. So 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.320 all the pictures of the world's most famous deadbeat dad 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.760 is him in ed Hardy gear. And that it was 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.440 over instantly, like Macy's pulled the line. It was just 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.920 like that. And yeah, they sold it for a couple 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.000 of bucks. But those people, they couldn't even come awake 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.720 for the autobiography. They had eleven million dollars worth the inventory, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.840 saying a warehouse, Yeah, I mean know, this is what 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.040 rag business is. Crazier than the record business. Okay, so 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.120 uh okay, so it's always the wrong people. But how 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.320 many people are looking for you? Is it something happens 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.440 once a year, once a month, yeah, once twice three 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.560 times a year somebody comes up and you know, uh, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.200 there's some inquiries at either the agency level or get 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.800 an email from somebody. And you know, I'm always interested 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.840 in taking meetings, right, you know, I can't tell I 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.520 ended up doing a book with l A. Read and 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.320 that's an unlikely thing. Um, I'm trying to think of 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.840 who are Buddy and the trades? Is that Roy Tracan? 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.120 Of course Roy interviewed l A for when the book 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.440 came out. In the first question is what are you 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.800 doing with Selvin? That sounds like Roy, you know, and 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.840 and and l I said, all we bonded over sly Stone, 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.440 you know. So that was But that L. A. Read 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.080 book was fantastic experience. I loved working with l A. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.280 And it was fantastic because well, first of all, uh, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.560 just the experience of working with l A. Read and 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.280 spending all that time in the Sony executive suites and 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.360 being in New York and out in the Hampton's and 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.240 and just l A. L a was just a magnanimous, warm, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.760 great guy. Uh. And the book is one of the 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.160 great stories of of of nineties R and B. I mean, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.320 he created so much of the of the new pop 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.680 black pop music of that era in baby Face, and 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.680 their story is not really well known. It's pretty great. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.280 I mean, he brought himself up out of Cincinnati's pop 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.360 funk scene. Did you know there was a Cincinnati func scene? 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.920 Actually I did, But don't quiz me any deeper. Midnight 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:47.200 Star they were the kings of it. Okay, So which 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.400 of your books are you proudest of relevant of what 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.240 it's sold? So no question about that, no question. Uh. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.960 Here comes the Night, the burn, dark soul of Burns 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.360 and the Dirty Business of Rhythm and Blues. Okay, what 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.000 inspired you to write that book? I first read about 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.439 Burt Burns in Charlie Gillett's book called The Sound of 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.840 the City back about nine Yes, yes, I owned that book. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.480 I don't think I've ever made it all the way through. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.240 But okay, what was really the first history we had? 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.720 And I devoured it. But he cites Burns and and 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.080 there's a little collection of records that he mentioned. Those 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.760 records were all sort of an intense little cluster of 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.720 of of hysterical soul records, you know, Garnett, Mims, Solomon, Burke, 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.760 Isley Brothers and went being So from that point on, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.720 I just sort of like kept my eye out and 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:40.440 and the more I learned about Burns, more I've found fascinating. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.239 I found early about the Damaged Heart, I found out 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:49.040 early about the gangster associations. I talked to Wexler about it, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.800 and he was forthcoming to a degree. At that point, 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.600 Tony Orlando told me about him. Tony knew him really well. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.719 And did you know Tony before I went to do 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.000 a Tony Orlando store when he came back from being nuts, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.920 and uh, he was there in Brooks. Arthur was there 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.720 with him that day. And Brooks was an engineer on 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.600 Brown Eyed Grow and and so Brooks was telling me 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.240 all about him too. So over the years that and 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.720 and there came a point when I met his kids, uh, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:22.000 and they really filled in the cracks and encouraged me 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.119 to do this. And that's like I bailed on the 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.840 chronicle and went to New York. And if I hadn't 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.360 done it, then so many of the key figures wouldn't 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.520 have been alive to tell the story, and they told it, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.760 and I collected it, and I had to put the 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.159 book down for many years, and when I picked it 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.080 back up to finish it, it was like an intense 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:48.600 uh and an unexpected gift to be able to finish 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.600 this book that I had started and spent so many 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.600 hours thinking about, so much time working on. And it worked. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.280 We brought Burns back to life as absolutely. You know, 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.800 his articles in the New York Times about him an 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:05.040 NPR and and then the next year, boom, He's inducted 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.240 in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So yeah, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.240 I'm pretty proud of that. Absolutely. So they had a 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.439 play that I went to see, a musical that you know, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.480 they say it's going to be revived, but that seems 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.040 Then they did the documentary, which was really quite good 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.480 from a viewer standpoint. Have we seen the end of 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.760 the promotion or is there anything I think that musical 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.359 is gonna have new life next year in London? Really? Yeah? 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:30.920 I think I think it's going to open on West 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.040 End and with a new first act. That was my question. Yeah, No, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.600 that first act didn't make it. I saw that show 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.120 like ten fifteen times. And of course I loved it. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.399 But the second act was flawless, and and to have 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.120 them end uh with twist and shout. The audience went 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.280 nuts every night, every night. But the first act was convoluted, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.960 slow and bumpy, and it didn't really set anything up. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.119 And there are a couple of great songs missing. And 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.399 the opening number in the first act, what was that 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.520 that Gene Pittney thing about put a diamond the juke 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:07.080 bo pe? You? Okay, so let's go back to the beginning. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.720 You grow up where that's a strange word us about 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:17.119 my youth growing up? So I was raised, my parents 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.480 had the best intentions for me in Berkeley. I was 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.800 supposed to have graduated from Berkeley High in June of 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:28.520 nineteen sixty seven, and it fell short, like a few weeks, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.640 never made the finish line. Okay, what was going on there? 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.439 Why did you saying L S D. Rock and No, no, no, no, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.960 no no. Why did you not as a nice Jewish boy, 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.240 why did you not finish high school? L? S D? 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.920 Rock and roll? Everything? And how many kids were in 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.360 the family. I'm the youngest of three and were the others? 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.280 Did they fly straight? Or yeah, yeah, they're geniuses and 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:55.879 and and corporate heroes. Uh. My oldest brother uh is 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.520 one of the major heroes of the cancer curing. He's 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.080 in public health. And my other brother was a big 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.920 deal at Bechdel uh for years and years and years, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.399 huge construction, biggest in the world. And my parents always 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.280 looked upon me as the failure in the family. So 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.160 you're the only one will be remembered. What did your 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:17.359 father do for a living? My father was you'll love this. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.960 It was a publicist for labor unions press agent. Okay, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:28.800 I have to ask any influence upon you? Oh? Hell yeah. Uh. 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.600 First of all, I'm a great believer in the union movement. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.240 I certainly have myself. It's just you know, out of 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.359 bounds in this day and age. It's ridiculous. It makes 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.800 me nuts and things like uber just like fill me 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.560 with fury. But just you know, all of a sudden, 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.200 you as a result of Reagan and said a union 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.520 is a bad name. And certainly there were some excesses, 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.520 but now we have these oligarchs and these giant corporations 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.400 that their excesses ever matched the excesses of the other side. 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.600 That's my point. But it's been spun up of watch. Okay, 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.480 so he got your love of the union, son. My 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:04.600 father was a pain in the ass. Who who who? 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:10.040 You know? Forged my character in uh you know, like 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:14.200 a matrix, you know what I mean? Yeah, And I'm 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.920 grateful to him for it. Uh. And and I cared 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.600 for him way beyond the point where he evaporated as 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.000 reservoir of good will with me. But do you care 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.280 for him financially? No? No, you know I'd go take 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.040 make sure he had company and take him. Okay. And 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.520 your mother went when she had passed, she had gone, 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.320 she and she had an endless reservoir good will with me. 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.560 So you know how old was she when she passed? 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:39.520 I was she about eighty four. But she lost her 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.840 she'd lost it to dementia, a long slope thing. And 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.639