WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Steve Miller 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:09.479 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What's Up? 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.200 This is on paid bill from Quest Love Supreme. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.280 For the next COLS classic, We'll get back to Steve 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.880 Miller's January tenth about eighteen appearance rock and Roll Hall 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.920 of Famer talks about the early lessons he learned from 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.439 Les Ball and Tibo and Walker, singing on a Promptu 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.079 recording session with the Beatles and performing with greats like 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.840 Chuck Berry, slyestonemor Fly Like an Eagle. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:28.280 Back to episode sixty. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:43.880 Six, Suprema Sun Sun Supreme, Roll Suprema Sun Sun Suprema 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:52.440 Roll Suprema So Sun Supreme, Roll Suprema Supreme. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.440 Quest Love in the Place. Yeah, I want to talk 0:00:55.720 --> 0:01:01.760 about what space? So Yeah, I'm starting a question inside 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.680 the theme song. Steve Miller, I just have to ask you, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.480 that was what was on your mind when you were 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:15.959 making Blue Odyssey in Space and just in less than 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:16.839 thirty seconds, please. 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:23.880 I had just got a really really cheap synthesizer, my 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.959 first one, and I immediately hooked it up to my 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.720 echo plex, and I had an eight track tape recorder, 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:34.560 and I just was building electronic soundscapes, like broadening the 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.880 horizon so I could put something in it. 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:37.520 Beautiful. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:37.880 Thank you. 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:46.199 Oh, Suprema Supremo, Role Suprema Suprema. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:46.959 Roll call. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.200 My name is Fante, Yeah, your favorite rapper. Yeah, I 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:58.880 work my magic. Yeah, abracadabra, Oh Supremo, Roll. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.160 Up, Supremo. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:02.960 Roll call. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:08.120 My name is Sugar Yeah, Sugar sugar Baby, Sugar Baby, 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.440 Sugar sugar Bet. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.040 Supremo. Roll call Supreme. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:21.320 So Supremo rolls bills in the place. We're gonna have 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.120 some fun, yeah and learn how the biz. Yeah, take 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:31.440 some money in runs. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:34.000 Supreme Supreme Supremo. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.640 Roll call. Yeah. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.079 Steve Miller, I'm stoked. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:39.000 Yeah, I don't know. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.880 You want to say smokering joker. Yeah, That's how I feel. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.960 Sure, m Supremo. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.079 Roll call. Some people call me Maurice, some people call 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.320 me the space Cowboy. Some people call me Stevie. But 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:02.000 I'm gonna tell you that cowboy Supreme. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:13.800 Roll Suprema Supreme, Roll Suprema Suprema, Roll Suprema son Supreme. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:21.040 Wow. Well, good morning, good morning. I feel much better. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.720 Cool ladies and gentlemen, we are honored here today to 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.640 have the legendary the artist artist. I'm very glad that 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.560 you're on the show because I've always wanted to talk 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:39.480 to someone that to whom it took more than seven 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.000 albums to finally break on through to the other side. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.360 So I'm not alone this world. No, no, you're not. 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.040 I yeah. I would like to think, if I can 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.560 insert myself inside my own radio show, that if yeah 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:59.400 the first time, that if we were out in the sixties, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.240 if the roots were out in the sixties, we probably 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.680 traveled the same path that Steve Miller took. A guy 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:12.920 who had relentless, uncompromising artistic goals in life that he 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.680 set and he didn't cow town or bowed down to 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.840 the man. And you know, true a true story of 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.920 artist development and innovation. And we thank you for coming. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.400 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Steve Miller ourselves supreme. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.440 Well, that's that's pretty humbling. You know, we would have 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.240 had had we been rolling at the same time, we 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:45.760 probably would have been touring together because trying to do artistics, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:51.240 make pop music intellectual, and do artistic things and be 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:56.040 political and make a change and in our society that 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.640 was those were all things that I see the roots 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.719 is being very interested in it. When I listened to 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.640 your records, I kind of go, oh, yeah, I know who. Yeah, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:11.200 they're in this studio now, you know. And it's it's 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.040 really really sweet of you to say all those nice things, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.560 you know, because nobody really says that stuff, and you 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.159 feel like that when you're working on it. In seven 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.280 albums was a long time, you know, but well you 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.240 did it well. You know, I was never not going 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.599 to you know, so that's the way that goes. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.880 Yeah, So I mean being as though, I mean, you 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:39.240 definitely came from an era in which songs had to 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:44.680 speak for themselves, where there's actual grassroots, uh kind of 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.279 work put into spreading the word and word of mouth 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.040 and those sort of things. It wasn't like you know today, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.760 where your celebrity determines how far you're going to go. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.320 And you know, even sadly as of twenty seventeen, I mean, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.520 talent really isn't even a fact. As a matter of fact, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.880 it could be a hindrance, see, you know, to say 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.720 the least, So come on now, buck up, cheer up. 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.480 What I'm saying, a lot of talent out here, you know, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.680 But I understand what you're what you're getting. I know 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.040 a lot of your music, but I just don't know 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.320 a lot of your your journey and your life that 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:26.400 that got you to the point. 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.560 So my journey's crazy. I can give it to you 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:35.360 an im areagraph. I'm so. I was born in Milwaukee 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.880 to a family. My mother's side of the family were 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:43.880 all musicians, and my father's side of the family they 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.680 were kind of inventors and doctors. So my dad was 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.880 a pathologist. He had a tape recorder. And when I 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.080 was four years old, I met Les Paul And this 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.920 was nineteen forty nine. Are you ready for that? Really? Yeah? 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.040 It was just a few years after World War Two 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.440 and Les Paul showed up with an electric guitar. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.080 And how does your family know Les Paul? 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.240 Well, he came to Milwaukee to put his act together 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.640 with Mary Ford before he went to New York to 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.880 do a TV show. It was one of the first 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.280 TV shows. It was a real weird little TV show. 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.360 It was like fifteen minutes long. It had kind of 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.440 come on at three point thirty in the afternoon from 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.240 his house. Wow, and they were putting They were rehearsing 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.200 at a supper club just down the block from where 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.600 we lived. My dad went down and said, I have 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.600 a tape recorder, which was this brand new technology that 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.960 came over from Germany after World War Two. It was 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:46.120 one of the first tape recorders. So he said, can 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.600 I record your shows? And Les said, yeah, of course. 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.280 So I went down with my father with Pops and 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.760 we watched Les Paul play every night. And I was 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.200 like four years old sitting on the bench next to him, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:03.240 watching this guitar player. And then they would come over 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.960 the house to listen to the tapes and party. So 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.080 there were lots of parties, lots of drinking, lots of smoking, 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.920 lots of musicians, lots of people hanging out. And that's 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.200 the beginning. And I knew that you could speed tape up, 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.120 you could slow it down. You know, if you sped 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.280 the tape up and recorded and then slowed it down, 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.080 you know, the guitar would sound like a bass. Or 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.080 if you recorded at three and a half and you know, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.800 played a lead bart and then put back up to seven, 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.040 it'd be twice as fast. And I understood that Mary 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:39.160 Ford was singing multiple tracks. And this is like nineteen 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.560 forty nine. Overdubbing wasn't even a thing yet. They had 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.359 just invented it seeing Patty Page and Less with the 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.920 multi tracking, and so I just there. I was. I 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.760 was like five years old, kind of going yeah, multi tracking. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.720 And then of postcards came to our house after they 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.760 went New York and they had their TV show and 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.559 there was one hundred postcards and they were all stamped 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.160 and they were all addressed to the same radio station 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.920 in Milwaukee, but they were all written in kind of phony, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.480 different handwriting, and that was to promote their next single. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:22.839 So it's nineteen fifty and I'm walking around going, guy, man, 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.080 I love show business, and you know, I wanted to 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:30.240 be a musician, and Meade lugs Lewis was my guy. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.200 He Honky Tonk Trained was the greatest shuffle in the 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.520 world and he's just listened to that over and over 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:40.160 and over as a baby, and that's what I wanted 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.720 to do. And you know, my godfather Les Baul was 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.600 doing it, so I was watching him from a distance. 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.880 So I had all that. And then we moved to Texas, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:56.480 and Texas was like really amazing because it was segregated 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.920 and I had never been in a segregated community before. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.360 And I was a Yankee. I didn't know what anybody 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.560 was talking about. I was in the second grade and 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.400 I was going, what what are you talking about? You know? 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:16.520 And I was going to Stonewall Jackson Elementary School. It 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:22.240 was like that. And my dad was running this lab, 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.840 this pathology lab, and a friend of his was taking 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.400 care of this guy named T bone Walker, And so 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.240 my dad goes he introduces himself to T Bone and 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:38.400 they become friends, and T Bone comes over to the house. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.280 So my parents rented a piano. I'd never seen a 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.400 piano before, and I got sick and stayed home from 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.800 school and played with a piano all day. And this 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.040 is true. At five o'clock in the afternoon, Tea bone 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.720 Walker drove into our We lived in this suburb where 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.880 there were like five thousand houses that looked the same, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.600 and everybody had this little yard and that was the deal. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.439 And T Bone pulled into the driveway and a flesh 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:13.560 colored Cadillac convertible with leopard skin seats and a suit 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.079 and tie on and a great, big, old Gibson guitar case. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.200 And he came in and he opened up his case 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.480 and I was just all over him. You know, it's 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.600 just like, are you t Bone Marker? How do you 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:32.160 do this? How do you do that? And they he 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.560 would come over and play parties, and my dad recorded 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.160 all of this. So I have the recordings of like 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.959 the first night I met t Bone Walker, Yeah, man, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.720 And they're really great recordings. And t Bone is whoever 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:56.280 it was on piano is just unbelievably cool. And t 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.400 Bone played from about six o'clock at night till about 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.319 five o'clock in the morning. And so I have these 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.480 tapes from nineteen fifty one and fifty two, and so 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.880 he taught me how to play the guitar behind my 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.320 head and do the splits. I was nine when I 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:22.200 met him, and so I was the main thing was 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.600 I was sitting there watching Ta boat and play lead 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:29.040 guitar this far away from them, and there's I was 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:30.680 listening to one of these tapes just the other night. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.160 We listened to them all the time, and t Bone 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.520 turns and me. He says, what you want to sing, Steve, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.320 And I said nothing, I don't want to do. It's 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:46.720 just like watching. But so from there, I'm in Texas 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.120 and there's like country music. There's a big Djamboree. There's 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:54.880 like black radio stations, there's white radio stations. Jimmy Reid 0:12:55.080 --> 0:13:03.400 is like pop music. It's just full of great music. 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:08.839 And I ran into a kid who had been taking 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:13.439 drum lessons since he was five years old, and he 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.360 was like twelve, and he was like a professional drummer. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.920 He was just absolutely together and his dad was really cool. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.480 He had a music room, and we used to go 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.120 over and listen to screaming Jay Hawkins records and stuff, 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.280 and we started playing together and we started a band. 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:36.240 It was nineteen fifty six, and mimeographed a letter sent 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.600 it out to all the high schools and colleges and 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.600 fraternities and sororities and churches and boys and girls clubs 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.520 and synagogues, any place that had live music, saying we 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.319 had a rock and roll band, and there weren't any 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.760 rock and roll bands there was nineteen fifty six. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.560 Can I ask one thing? Yeah, what city in Texas 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:54.920 was this? 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.840 Dallas, Okay? And Freddy King was on television in the afternoon. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.040 Saturday afternoon, there was an R and B show on TV, 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.280 and Lightning Hopkins was coming through town. There was a 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.480 lot of jazz all over h. Charles's band lived in 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.400 Fort Worth that had Newman. Those guys were in and 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.840 out of town and and so there was this really 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:23.720 cool music scene going on. And I was listening to 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.360 Jimmy Reid and Bill Doggett. Those were when I was 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.840 eleven and twelve. That was the stuff I really liked, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.240 and that's what our band played. And so we sent 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.800 these letters out and I had the band booked for 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:43.360 like a whole school year, like in three weeks, and 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.880 nobody knew how old we were because we're twelve. But 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.240 it was a really good band. Boss Eggs was in 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.120 the joined the band the next year, and you know, 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.080 we had a really good repertoire. We did a lot 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:04.840 of blues out of R and B tunes and that 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.200 band stayed together all through high school and then followed 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.320 me into college. And so I grew up in the 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.240 in the middle of this sort of jazz scene. My 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.040 parents loved jazz, and jazz musicians were always coming. 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:23.120 Over and how accessible were because I mean, the story 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.200 that you're telling is just not the average story where 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:32.160 like TV and WATS. So first of all, I mean 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.720 as as a five year older or even okay, I'll 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.440 put you up further as a ten year older. I mean, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:46.160 are you truly absolutely knowing that you're witnessing history right 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.800 here and this should be preserved and and huh. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.200 So No, I just thought what I was witnessing was 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.840 great music, and being a musician was a lousy job, 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.640 you know, like in growing up in a middle class family, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:08.520 you know, and I had I had, like my my 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.600 uncle my mother's side, had been in the Paul Whiteman orchestra. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.240 He was a hot jazz violinist and he played in 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.360 that orchestra. And then when the depression came, he and 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.240 his brothers all went to medical school and became doctors. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:28.160 So in my family, it was kind of like my 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.680 father and my grandfather had really raised themselves up. You know. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:36.440 My grandfather was an orphan and he became a doctor. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.800 He went to medical school and he was forty four 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.640 years old. Oh wow. And so it was all like, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.080 you're gonna get an education, you're gonna work. You know, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.400 you're gonna take care of yourself, you're gonna provide, You're 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.040 gonna be a provider. And boy, do you just love 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.720 this musician music. But you're not gonna be a musician 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:59.320 there's never any to then encourage you to. It's really amazing, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.000 you know. It's like my father, like I was playing 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.679 rock and roll, he would every now and then he 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.560 would show up at some gig and he just embarrass 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.520 the hell out of me. I'd stand there and go 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:20.280 like turn it down, you know. And this was when 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.080 we were like playing through one Fender amp and I 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.600 was set on volume three, you know, right way too well. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:33.600 So I didn't know, and I didn't get I didn't 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.440 make my leap into the great unknown until I was 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.679 about twenty one years old because the whole time I 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.639 was playing, I was just having the greatest time in 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.399 the world. I had always had the best band in 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.440 town wherever I was, and was working more than anybody, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.919 you know, just we had We just had the best 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:56.600 time and it was just fun. And I went to 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:03.320 University Wisconsin, went back to Madison, and I spent about 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.320 eight months. I took a year and went to Europe 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.080 and I went to the University of Copenhagen, and I 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.280 was going to be a writer and a journalist in 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.399 comparative literature, creative writing, that kind of stuff. And it 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.160 was the first time since I was twelve years old. 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.920 I hadn't had a band, you know, I didn't actually 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:28.679 play any gigs for about seven months, and I just 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.040 couldn't stand it. And I got back to the States, 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.800 got my band right back together at the University of Wisconsin, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:40.199 and then I just had a meeting one day with 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.280 my student advisor or counselor, you know, and I was 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.760 looking at these guys arguing over the size of their 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.320 desks and stuff, and I just went, I'm done. I'm 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:53.600 a musician. And I was lucky because Muddy Waters and 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:59.400 Helen Woolf and Paul Butterfield were all playing in night 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.280 clubs in a small area in Chicago all the time, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.320 So just ninety miles away, that's as far as I 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:12.560 had to go to jump into this very mature, beautiful 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.360 music scene that I was. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.159 Going to ask you how I knew that Milwaukee and 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.679 Chicago in proximity to each other, But how did those records, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.840 How did those how did that blue scene even get 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:27.920 to you at the time? 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.240 And was it was like everybody's all records? 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.439 So were they on the radio at the time or 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:35.399 was it still like race. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.520 Music in in Texas? 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:39.199 Uh? 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:44.240 Was? I mean? In Milwaukee? Was all records, and you know, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.159 when I got to Texas, Texas was like a really 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:54.080 different place. And and radio Top forty radio was invented 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:59.320 in Dallas at KLIF by guy named Gordon McClendon. Yeah. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.240 I used to play sitar on those radio ads that 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:08.080 k Yeah, those were all made of Pam's recording studio 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.800 in Dallas and sold all over the United States, and 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.840 guys who owned radio stations went, Okay, we liked this program, 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.160 let's do this top forty thing, this top ten thing, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:23.480 and they built all that there. Before that happened, you 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:29.560 heard all kinds of music on pop radio, on AM radio, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.480 and we had we had like there was a station 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:39.320 called WRR in Dallas that played nothing but blues at 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.800 night and it was like a blues pedagogy. This guy 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.080 Jim Low was just the greatest DJ in the world 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:53.679 and he just played all blues records. So that was 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:59.080 like something that everybody growing up listened to. Blues like blues. 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.880 We were we were into like, you know, Little Walter had 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.639 hit records in Dallas when I was like thirteen and 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.560 fourteen years old. You know, Bo Diddley, all those guys 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.159 were just right there and they came through town a 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.800 lot and played a lot. So there was this music 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.760 scene that people went to and it. 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:19.399 Was can you receive these shows? 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:20.160 Yeah? 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.720 So back then, like how much would a show cost 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.879 to to see these acts? Like what was the typical building? 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:32.680 Oh, Frankie Avalon, I mean Frankie Lyman and the Teenagers 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.760 and Al Hibbler and Chuck Berry and the Cadillacs or 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.840 somebody like that would come through and it'd be like 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:43.000 two dollars at the sport of Toory, you know, and 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.480 as a package tour and just yeah, they were all 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:46.320 package tours. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.600 Then how long would those shows be? Because I'd see 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.680 the marquis of some of these shows and I would 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.640 think that, okay, even at three to four songs each, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.800 this could be a three to four hour fair. But 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:03.399 I know that they're doing matinee shows, afternoon shows, evening shows, 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:04.360 night shows. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:08.200 And yeah, they were, you know, I kind of remember 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.720 him as being like three hours long. You know. We 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.080 used to go to the Sportatorum. The Sportatorium had the 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.560 big Djamboree and it had all the R and B 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.720 shows and they had the There really weren't a lot 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.560 of rock shows there, you know, there wasn't a lot. 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:30.320 Like I remember when Carl Perkins showed up at one 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.520 of these shows and did blue suede shoes and that 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.520 was like a oh wow, this is really different. And 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:37.240 they came up out of the crowd. They had a 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.840 big double bass and a cocktail drum and he just 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:42.600 like jumped up out of the stage. It was during 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.480 Al Hibbler's act and came and did a few things 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.320 and everybody went nuts and then he left. So that's 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.560 kind of what it was. You'd do three tunes and 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.159 then move on. It wasn't anything like it is now. 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:58.440 And so you're saying that these shows that you saw, 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:00.719 it was mostly black acts and the idea of like 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:06.800 Elvis culture and more white oriented rock acts or the 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:08.200 people that would established. 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.320 It, you know, like like like that was that they 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.119 were R and B shows that came came through that 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.200 everybody went to. And then when the white acts came through, 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.919 like I remember seeing Ricky Nelson, you know, with James Burden. 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.480 Wanted to go see James Burden play guitar, and and 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.640 he was big enough to come and do a show 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.879 in a theater. He played at the Majestic Theater, but 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.639 mainly it was like, you know, these arena kind of 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:43.080 big all star review kind of shows what the. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:44.800 Term rock and roll even popular? 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:48.680 But at point kind of not still race music. 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.720 No, it was you know, we didn't call it race music, 0:23:51.800 --> 0:24:01.320 but uh, it was totally segregated on the airwaves, but 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:06.959 it wasn't. I mean people, you know, everybody listened, like 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:09.520 everybody I went to school with listened to K and okay, 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.800 which was the black radio station, because that was always 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:16.680 going to be a lot better than k l i F, 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:20.960 which had like, you know, Frankie Avalon. You know, like 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.399 if you go back and sort of look at the 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:26.600 pop list and stuff and don't make fun of the 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:35.400 Mills brothers, they're great, you know, that's ever. But yeah, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.680 I mean it was like there was this really square 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:44.080 white music, and like guys like Pat Boone. Pat Boone 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.919 had a TV show in Fort Worth where he dressed 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:49.600 like a soda jerk. He had that you know, the 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.400 little white paper had on and saying all those groovy 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:55.240 versions of it and he was going to be like 0:24:55.320 --> 0:25:00.159 big Crosby, that's that's where that was going. We were 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:00.800 it interested. 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.040 So even then there was counter you're saying that there 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:08.560 was counterculture, totally mainstream squares, totally, that's that's sort of play. 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.239 So I was walking around in the seventh grade with 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:15.800 my Jimmy Reid records going listen to this baby, okay, 0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:16.600 you know, and. 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:18.640 What were people saying back to you? 0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:22.840 Oh yeah, everybody loved it. Everybody loved it, and we 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:27.959 uh hell, I used to back up Jimmy Reid when 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.639 I was fourteen years old. We played and backed up 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:32.920 Jimmy Reid, and Jimmy Reid was like one of the 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:38.639 most popular acts in Dallas. In Dallas for white kids, 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.480 black kids, it didn't matter, you know, he was those 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:42.760 were hit records. 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:44.800 So you must have been the ship at fourteen to 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:47.880 like your peers, right because you're playing behind him. 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:49.240 So what was that like? 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:58.720 Well, you know, nobody even cared about that. There wasn't anybody, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:03.840 no no. We were a bar band. There weren't you know, 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:08.480 these careers that exist now people like us sitting here right, 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:12.560 you know, pontificating about how important it was and how 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:17.320 deep we thought didn't even exist. If you were a musician, 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:20.080 you know, you were working in bars and nightclubs, or 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:22.240 you were on the Dick Clark Bus, you know, with 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.240 forty people, you know, to going to town to town 0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:29.560 to town, and there wasn't nothing was you know. The 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.480 people that had the big careers were like Bob Hope 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:39.520 and Annette Funachello. Yeah it was they were on TV 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:46.200 and you know, careers lasted eighteen months and you weren't. 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:49.119 Nobody thought they could make a living doing this. And 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:52.440 I never thought I would ever make a record until 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.760 I saw Paul Butterfield when I was twenty one, and 0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:56.560 he was like, he had signed a record and they 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.840 were writing about him, and I went, he got a record, man, 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.960 I can do that. I could get a record deal. Now. 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:07.159 I'd been fooling around with tape all my life, playing 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:13.239 with it, never thinking anything like we think now or 0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:16.080 did in the sixties or the seventies to days, none 0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:20.040 of that even existed as an idea in the fifties. 0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:29.480 You mentioned about these shows in sports arenas, Okay, because 0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:34.679 I know that you're a stickler for sound and engineering, 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.520 just because I'm from an era in which you know, 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:43.200 big speakers and backline and those things. How were those 0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:50.880 shows able to translate sonically in a large sports arena 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:58.000 with what I would assume was inferior sound. 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:03.359 Well, an audience was generally they weren't big, big, huge 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.640 sports are anything like the Sportatorium, is what I said. 0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:10.000 The Sportatorium was like this funky kind of I think 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.560 it held like twenty five hundred people or something, and 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:14.760 it was a place where they had boxing matches and 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.560 they had music, and so it was small enough that 0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:22.959 you know, you could sing through your amplifier. And the 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:26.920 volume levels were totally different. There were nothing like rock 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:29.800 and roll volume levels. The first big rock show I 0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:35.760 saw was, I mean where I went, Holy Cow, look 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.840 at that. Was Paul Revere and the Raiders at Chicago. 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:42.160 They were playing to nineteen thousand people and they had 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.480 two voices of the theater five foot by five foot 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.880 speaker boxes, one on each side of the stage, and 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.600 we were just going, oh, look at that. And of 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:55.680 course you couldn't hear a word. And the shows were like, 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.080 you know, it was like those Frank Sinatra shows where 0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.920 everybody was just screaming and passing out stuff like that, 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:02.640 and so you didn't hear anything. 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:04.840 He's wondering about that, because I know that's why the 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:07.600 Beatles stopped doing shows, because they're like you can't hear 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:08.200 us anyway. 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:11.000 Well, the Beatles stopped doing shows because they thought they 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:12.360 were going to be assassinated. 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:14.880 Yeah, and I was about to say, you were there 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.320 for that mighty argument. I'll get to that. 0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:19.720 Yeah, they thought they were going to be killed. But 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:23.360 like if you look at the Shea Stadium show, you know, 0:29:23.480 --> 0:29:26.760 like the way I see this, that Shay Stadiums show, 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:30.800 I go, well, look at that. They're on second base. 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:33.960 There are put one hundred and twenty feet away from 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:38.520 the audience, and look, there's three bookshelf speakers. There's one 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:40.720 on the ground named here, there's one there, and there's 0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:42.760 a little under the front, you know, and you just go, 0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:44.760 what were these people thinking? 0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:45.440 I can't hear them? 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.560 You couldn't hear anything. So that was like one of 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:52.400 the things I'm proud of that I actually worked hard on, 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.520 was we went from that era to building the pas 0:29:55.600 --> 0:30:00.320 to getting the stuff that everybody enjoys right now in 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:04.280 your monitor. Yeah, the flight for you know, in your monitors. Man, 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.640 I spent three hundred thousand dollars developing those you know, 0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:14.320 oh wait you literally yeah, you know, speak well, very interesting. 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:18.520 So there was this guy in California was kind of nuts. 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:24.760 Who Stevie Wonder had hired, and uh, he had. Stevie 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:29.280 was playing. He had one little earpiece, and it was 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.160 the way they figured out how to do it was 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:34.640 you had a little transformer and a little FM transmitter 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:39.200 and you made this custom aarpiece and one earpiece. And 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:42.640 then he stopped doing it, and it just sat there 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:46.320 for five years. And I'd taken a lot of time 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.160 off in the eighties. I thought my career was over 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:51.880 there from eighty three to like eighty eight or something 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:57.000 like that, and was convinced, Hey, no, man, come back. 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.560 You know you can do shows and everything. So I 0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:02.760 was doing shows and when I got back, the size 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:04.720 of the monitors on the stage or the size of 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:08.080 an ice box laying on the floor. And I had 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:10.400 a twenty two year old kid running my monitors and 0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.600 it was so loud. I fired him. I got hired 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:16.640 another kid, fired him, and then I got an audiologist 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.240 out and I put a body cavity, one of those 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:23.080 plastic things, but started measuring and I said, you see, man, 0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:26.680 it's one hundred and twenty one dB out here. You're fired. 0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:32.000 And I tested everybody's hearing, and I tested we had 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.880 a crew and everything. It was like fifty five people 0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:38.160 and we were doing these big, big outdoor shows. And 0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:42.120 I tested everybody's hearing, from the truck and bus drivers 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.280 to the musicians, and the guy that had the best 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.920 hearing was my house mixer. The guy had the second 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.360 best hearing was my monitor mixer. I had the third 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:56.920 best hearing, and everybody else was deaf. They had just 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:01.800 dropped at four thousand, kid, just nobody could hear any siblings, 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:06.200 nobody could hear anything from all this damage. So we 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:11.920 went and found this guy. We built five FM transmitters. 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:18.200 We had separate power units because if the Feds caught us, 0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:23.640 they would take the power cool so we had Japanese 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:30.480 Japanese FM radios for our transmitter receivers because they had 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:33.520 a lower FM frequency than we had here. And we 0:32:33.640 --> 0:32:38.640 broadcast the shows. I mean it was a three block area, 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.640 and so what was cool about it was if you 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:43.560 were one of the bus drivers, you could turn on 0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:46.480 the radio and listen to the show. What was dangerous 0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:49.680 about it was all the sound checks were being broadcast. 0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:51.840 Every time we turned the thing on. We were broadcasting 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:53.720 about three block area. 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:56.920 You couldn't talk about last night's. 0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:01.120 Meal or hey, what the you know? What are you? 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:03.120 You know you had I mean it was like, we're 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.680 on the air and we could really be fine. Seriously, 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.480 so we snuck around and did that. 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:10.880 Oh wait, so you had to even though it was 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.240 for monitor purposes use FCC. 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:18.080 Well, no, we were illegally broadcasting FM. 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:20.360 Radio radio. 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:25.400 We had five pirate radio stations stacked up so each 0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:33.840 guy could hear. And and I this is this is 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:38.880 how gets invented. It's always simple and really dumb. And 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:42.840 and so here we are, and we're setting this up 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:47.280 every night and we're broadcasting. And we're the first band 0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:50.560 that ever went out wearing ear monitors. And the ear 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.320 monitors were made out of clay and they really hurt. 0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:56.720 And we went out there and I remember the first 0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.040 night I went out on a stage in front of 0:33:59.120 --> 0:34:03.640 like eighteenth people in ear monitors, the whole bands, and 0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:08.879 it were the first band, and it was like kind 0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:13.280 of dangerous. But then you know, then we went, okay, 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:17.080 now we gotta like process the sound. You know, everything's 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:20.120 got to sound good. Oh, now we got the sound processed. 0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:25.200 Now we gotta figure out how this transmission stuff is 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:29.360 gonna work. And then some A guy named Marty Garcia 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.760 came in and said, FM transmitters, are you guys nuts? 0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:35.560 Let me show you how to do this, and here's 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.440 the money, man build it and went from there in 0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:41.040 the ears yeah in ears. 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:43.080 Wow, did you get any thank yous from the neighborhood, 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.080 Like anybody ever come up to you? Like, Man, that 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:46.839 show was awesome last night, I said on my. 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:50.719 Couching, you know, and we never got busted. Oh, you know, 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.359 we got away with it. I still have these things, man, 0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:55.799 they're in my warehouse suits. Like it's like, you know, 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.200 it's like the first space capsule or something that say 0:34:59.320 --> 0:35:02.399 you look at it, just go. But you know, it's 0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:06.200 like tape echo and the stuff less Paul worked on. 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:10.040 All of these ideas start from you know, you kind 0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:12.200 of go like, I gotta get this done. Honey had 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.719 me that vacuum cleaner. I'm gonna hook this thing up 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:17.360 and blow that thing out there and turn this on 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:19.200 and make this organ work. 0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:19.880 You know. 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.160 Yeah, you just you do what you gotta do. And 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:29.320 and it's, uh, you know, I just did it because 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:31.600 I needed it. I didn't do it do it to 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.799 you know, to start to start a company or do 0:35:35.920 --> 0:35:39.960 anything like that. I just knew that I wanted to 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.000 protect my hearing for life. 0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:45.160 Well that's the show, Leason, gentlemen. 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:55.760 I brought an out audiologist and we're gonna test everybody, now, Larry, 0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:59.600 come on, we need that. 0:36:00.719 --> 0:36:03.600 Did you develop it to the point where it was like, 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:06.800 did you patent it? Did you sell it to Shore? 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.520 No? No, I gave it to Marty and look there 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:12.760 are you know, it's like all this kind of stuff. 0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:17.880 A lot of people were thinking about it, but I 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:21.080 was the guy who went like, I can't work in 0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:25.200 this situation. You guys got to stop this. This is nuts, 0:36:25.440 --> 0:36:28.000 you know. I mean, if you're on a stage and 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:31.640 it's one hundred and twenty GB, you can't sing, you 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.719 can't think, you can't rest, you can't sleep after the show, 0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:37.120 you can't hear the next day. You know, you know 0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:41.319 all that. So that's that had to be fixed. So 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:44.480 that was all. And I remember kind of thinking, like, 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:50.440 you know, it took off really quickly people, you know, 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:54.880 right away people wanted to know about it, and the 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:59.960 Marty started a company and started you know, doing your 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.080 inn your monitors, and the last in your monitor story 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.239 was like so now it's like nineteen ninety two or 0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:10.960 ninety three or something, and the Dead want to have 0:37:11.000 --> 0:37:13.520 an inner monitor system and they know that we had 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.239 used we'd been using it now for four years, you know. 0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:19.239 They said, well, we want to work with you guys. 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.680 Let's go do ten shows together or something. And I said, okay. 0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:28.480 So in my Innure monitor system with the band, I 0:37:28.480 --> 0:37:31.960 have a little foot switch where I can like step 0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:33.960 on the switch and it takes my voice out of 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.040 the PA, but I can talk to the sound guy 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.080 or the light guy, or I can say, hey, you know, 0:37:38.120 --> 0:37:40.160 there's some guy down here. There's two guys in a 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:42.319 fight in the front row. You need to come fix that, 0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:45.560 or you know, if something's wrong or go to the 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.239 bridge or forget the next song or whatever. Yeah, And 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:52.399 it's it's so weird because you know, it's like I'm 0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:55.560 talking to you and that's gonna yeah, well all right, 0:37:55.600 --> 0:37:59.400 then we're gonna go. You see when you're doing it, 0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:02.200 and you like you came to realize people they don't 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:04.520 they don't even notice. It's like weird. You can do 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:09.440 all this year. So that's that's the band leader control. 0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:12.279 So the first show doing with the Dead at some 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:15.480 football stadium there's eighty thousand people. We go out, they 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.640 immediately invite me to come out and jam. I go 0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.000 out and put on my ear in ear monitors and 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:26.960 they're all arguing with each other while somebody's playing a 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:32.480 solo stuff. Listen, man, you just this giant conversation. Everybody. 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.279 Everybody's got their own pedal, everybody's got their own thing, 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:38.880 nobody's listening to anybody. They're just like, it was just 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.799 all my blog. You know, I just went, man, how 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:43.399 can you guys do that? Sir? 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:49.960 You've literally described that is crazy? 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:52.560 Steve, was that in Buffalo by any chance? 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:53.359 Uh? 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:55.839 That was the last gig of that tour? 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:57.399 Okay a show? 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:01.000 Actually, yeah, yeah, that was. That was a really amazing run. 0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:03.440 It was like ninety one, ninety ninety two maybe. 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:07.399 I think there's ninety two, you know, because. 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:11.239 Yeah, I was in the parking lot during the opening. 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:13.920 And what were you doing? 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:15.279 A grateful show? 0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:19.040 You know, those shows were really funny, and bands that 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.360 played with a grateful dead usually got shunned, you know, 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:25.279 like I sting had done it before I had done it, 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.280 and they said, yeah, you know, like there'd be eleven 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:31.520 thousand people in the stadium while Sting was doing his set. Well, 0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:35.680 that wasn't gonna happen with me, and so, uh, we 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.080 went out and we just started and we just started 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.480 with like four or five hits, and by the third hit, 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:43.680 people just running into the stadium and by the time 0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:46.000 our set was over, the whole stadium would be singing 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:49.360 along and then we'd turn it over to Jerry. 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:50.280 So did they figure? 0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:52.560 It's interesting because you said when you got with them, 0:39:52.600 --> 0:39:53.919 it was kind of like a two for one deal, 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.000 like on top of getting the band, they get the 0:39:56.560 --> 0:39:58.479 any our monitors. Is that what most bands were thinking 0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:00.480 at that time about guy. 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:03.680 No No, they had they had got a system. They 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:06.839 wanted they wanted to see how we used it. They 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:09.560 wanted to learn how, They wanted the best. They wanted 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.000 to learn how to do it, you know, and see 0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:16.120 see how it worked. And that was you know, uh 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:21.360 real comment. I remember Guns N' Roses came by. Oh okay, 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.439 you wanted to see how because we were the guys 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:25.839 at the monitors, you know. 0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:28.960 And that's weird because I've I've thought that it was 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:32.000 invented because by the time we started using it in 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:34.680 like two thousand, I felt like, well, okay, this is 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:38.440 probably like three years old already. I felt like just 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:40.799 came around like yeah, nineteen ninety seven or something. 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:43.720 No, I was like ten eleven years old by then. 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.200 But you know, you have to develop that stuff. But 0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:50.520 for me, I think because the less you know, and 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:55.520 being around him when I was little, and like you 0:40:55.520 --> 0:40:57.640 were saying, well, did you know, I didn't know he 0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.640 was a genius. I didn't know anything about him except 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:04.640 that he he was like this great, great guitarist and 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:07.920 he was really funny. Every show he did was always 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:15.120 sold out, and uh, you know, he always had somebody 0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:18.480 come and sit in with him. So one night I'm 0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:21.280 in the club and tal Farlow comes into the club 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:24.759 and it's like a gunfighter cutting session, you know. I 0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.279 remember tal Farlow's here and Les Paul's right in the 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.320 middle of some great solo and he just puts the 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.040 handkerchief over his hand and he's just playing in so 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:40.360 cow can't steal his licks. That Yeah, man, man, I 0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:43.680 just you know, pulled the handkerchief without you know, it just. 0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:47.160 Nonchalantly. 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.040 He must have practiced it a thousand times, you know. 0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:54.239 But but that's what it was like, hanging out with 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:58.600 him and so I got so lucky to be around 0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:02.279 the technology, the idea of recording, the idea of promoting 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.719 a single, the idea having fun at a show and 0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.719 it's a jam session. The cats are all coming by 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:11.480 and they're all going to play, and so, you know, 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:19.640 Charles Mingus was at the House of Milwaukee Red and 0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:22.759 they were just adults. They were just people, you know, 0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:25.360 hanging out and listening to the tape recorder and drinking 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:27.480 and laughing and having a good time, you know. And 0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:31.640 so that was the way I saw life, you know, 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:33.919 when I started. And then we took that and moved 0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:39.480 it to Texas, and we were considered communists, you know. Uh, 0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:43.400 you know, my dad was arrested for having a race 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:48.000 party at his laboratory, you know, because he had black 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:53.560 technicians and white technicians working together in a laboratory. Two 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:58.040 of the technicians went on to become pathologists, and they 0:42:58.080 --> 0:43:03.880 were arrested, photographed, handcuffed picture on the front page of 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:06.400 the Dallas Morning News and he was described as like 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:10.760 a swanky, you know, kind of sleazy, swanky doctor having 0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:16.040 a race party and they were working, they were it 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:19.760 was like three o'clock in the afternoon on December, probably 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:27.279 December December twenty third, the lab Christmas Party. Well you know, 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:31.000 raist racist, you know, and and. 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.400 Uh, I want to be a sleazy swanky doctor. 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.160 You are you are? You are? Yeah? Well you know 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:39.719 Swanky's good. 0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:46.680 So has have has Less left you any of his 0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:50.040 like artifacts? Like did he give you your first guitar? 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.400 Or do you have like an amp that he oh 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:53.120 this tape recorder? 0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:56.080 Kids, Yeah, I don't have it, don't have it. I 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:58.560 have a guitar. I have a one, a Gibson one 0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:02.399 seventy five that he gave me in what I used 0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:05.040 to steal from him as guitar picks. And it was 0:44:05.080 --> 0:44:10.719 a big joke because the well, the first time I 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:13.160 went to see Less play at Fat Tuesdays. You know, 0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:17.480 he worked at Fat Tuesdays for he stayed in New 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:19.319 York for thirty years. He had his heart attack at 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:21.399 sixty three and when he was sixty three years old, 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.160 and then he played until he was ninety three. So 0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:26.440 I hadn't seen him in a while. I mean I 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.560 hadn't seen him in like seven or eight years. And 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:31.520 I've been on the road and I was in New 0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:33.839 York and he was playing and I went, I'm gonna 0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.200 go see Less. So I go to see him and 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:39.719 I go say hi, and come on up here, kid, 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:41.880 come on, you know, come on play, come on and 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:43.880 play something, you know, And I said, well, gosh, I 0:44:43.880 --> 0:44:46.800 didn't bring my guitar, which he thought was just awful 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:48.760 that I was so dumb not to bring my guitar. 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.160 But on top of the piano it was this white 0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:56.480 Less Paul Deluxe model with three gold pickups and just 0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:01.839 beautifully just here take this. And he gives me that 0:45:01.920 --> 0:45:06.000 guitar and I didn't have a pick, hands me a pick. 0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:09.439 I get the guitar, plug it in and we start 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:12.200 to play. And I noticed that the volume control doesn't work. 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:15.439 It's totally out of tune. The tuning pegs don't work, 0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:17.759 nothing works on it, you know. So I got the 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.680 stooge guitar, right, you bring your own acts next time. 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.160 And then yeah, so there I am, you know. And 0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:30.720 then I looked down at the pick that I borrowed 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:32.880 from him, and it was made out of plexiglass and 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:36.680 it had some sandpaper turned at a certain angle that 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:43.560 had been glued on. It was a handmade pick. So 0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:46.440 every time I would see him try and get some 0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:48.680 of his picks, and he didn't like it, you know. 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:51.120 And I finally I was doing a show like this 0:45:51.239 --> 0:45:53.160 that was being filmed, and he was sitting right here, 0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:55.719 and I said, you know, Less is eighty six years old, 0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:57.840 and you know he's such an interesting man. He's always 0:45:57.840 --> 0:45:59.960 working any thing. So I bet you he's got a 0:46:00.120 --> 0:46:02.319 pocket full of custom made picks right now, come on, 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.279 let's let's see. And he pulled him out and put 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.799 him on the table bit and I just scoomed up. 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.560 So I have this beautiful collection and his handmade picks 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:16.160 and one of his guitars. And but the best thing 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:18.799 was I used to talk to him at least once 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:22.160 a month, and he'd call me up and start talking 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:23.920 to me, and I wouldn't even know what he was 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:26.799 talking about. He'd be talking about digital this and digital that, 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.439 and I'd be going, well, gee, I don't know. Less. 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:35.160 He was so far ahead of of everything and everybody 0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:38.279 and that. But it was all simple. His ideas were 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:39.080 all real simple. 0:46:44.160 --> 0:46:46.920 So I know that the city of San Francisco. I 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:49.280 was about to say, we do have to start discussing 0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:53.879 your actual music there, I actually stay off topic, out 0:46:53.920 --> 0:47:01.160 of your your discography forever, but you eventually, uh migrate 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:04.719 to San Francisco, which is we're considering that even though 0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:09.120 there's psychedelic leanings and a lot of your music, I 0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:14.200 wouldn't necessarily peg you as part of that dead kind 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:18.520 of jam. Yeah, kind of lucky, even though there are 0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:20.800 elements of that and and a lot of your music. 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:24.080 I'm just like the witty writing and all that stuff. 0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:28.520 But you were straight blues. So how did you get 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:34.439 into the Bill Graham circle? And more specifically I know that, well, 0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:38.719 your first record with Chuck Berry? How did that even happen? 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:41.799 Because I know that Chuck is notory. Yeah, I was 0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:43.400 about to say, I know you have five hours of 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:47.360 Chuck Berry's for those who don't know. And this is 0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:51.080 even from my experience of seeing Chuck and person as 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:56.359 a kid. He never sometimes he would meet his band 0:47:56.400 --> 0:47:59.680 maybe five minutes before going on stage. And similar to 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:03.720 that the Booty Collins James Brown story. Hey, you already 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.920 know my material, so just hit it, like Chuck is 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:11.520 notorious for just flying into town and just all right, 0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:15.359 hit it and you're supposed to follow it. What tell 0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:16.960 us a Chuck Berry story? Please? 0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:23.880 Well, Chuck Berry, Yes, my best Chuck Berry story is 0:48:23.920 --> 0:48:26.000 the one I should have told Keith Richards before he 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:32.239 made the movie. We walk off the stage and I say, 0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:35.600 if you ever fucking do that to me again, you motherfucker, 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:39.480 get your own fucking band, get your own fucking amplifier, 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.640 and get your own people. Man, fuck you. I'm never 0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:53.480 gonna back you up again. Guarantino. And then from that 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:54.760 time on he was great. 0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:57.000 What did he do? 0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:58.280 What he was Chuck Berry? 0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:02.439 Broll No, no, no, there are two guys that used 0:49:02.440 --> 0:49:04.399 to do this trick. So now this is a Chuck 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:09.040 Berry and the Lightning Hopkins story and a San Francisco story. Yes, 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:14.040 So I dropped acid in Madison in nineteen sixty three. 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:16.600 It was lysurgic acid. It was pure. 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:18.600 I was at that show too. 0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:22.800 And that was before anybody knew what it was or 0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:24.600 what was really going on, and. 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:26.880 So you were wing your time and everything. 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:36.080 So my first trip was poetry, Marvin Gay, Robbie Shankar, literature, 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:44.160 mind expanding consciousness, do anything you know before there were hippies. Okay, 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:47.000 Then I go to So I'm in Chicago and we're 0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:52.040 hearing about San Francisco, these gigs and San Francis light show. 0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:55.600 Butterfield's out there, man, and he's like making money, and 0:49:55.680 --> 0:49:58.840 they're playing to like eleven hundred people a night, not 0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:01.000 one hundred and twenty five US. And I'm working in 0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:04.319 a nightclub in Chicago from nine o'clock at night till 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:07.120 four o'clock in the morning, six days a week, making 0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:10.600 one hundred and twenty five dollars a week. And I'm 0:50:10.640 --> 0:50:14.120 thinking to myself, I got to go to California. Man, 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:18.000 there's you know, eleven hundred people, five hundred dollars a night. 0:50:18.200 --> 0:50:22.040 Glad I'm going, you know, so, so I'm you know, 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:25.319 the beat coming from there was just huge. And then 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:28.680 all the bands were coming through Chicago. Chess Records was there, 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:31.919 and the Rolling Stones had been through town, and we 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:35.080 were doing this blue We were in this great blues 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:39.719 scene that was just magical for a few years. When 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:42.600 I say magical, it's like, hey, as soon as we 0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:46.239 finished doing this radio show, Holling Wolf's playing across the street, man, 0:50:46.280 --> 0:50:49.200 let's go, Hubert's with him, Let's go, you know, and 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.799 Muddy's going to be here, and Butter's over here, and 0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.080 we're over here, and they're over here and this and that. 0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:56.479 It was just like that for like about three years, 0:50:56.480 --> 0:51:00.960 and then it disappeared San Francisco. So I go to 0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:04.880 San Francisco and I get out there and I'm living 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:10.839 in my Volkswagen bus. Now things have gone down. I 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.200 tried to go to music school at the University of Texas. 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:15.480 They wouldn't accept me. They wouldn't teach me how to 0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:19.440 read or write music. So I left. I got to 0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:22.400 California and I had five bucks in my pocket, and 0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:26.800 I went to see Butterfield play at the at the Fillmore, 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:28.840 and I saw what the Fillmore was and I went, Okay, 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:31.400 I gotta do it here. This is great, man, that 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:33.560 should be me up there. You know, I want to 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:36.239 go do that. And I got a gig at the 0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:41.080 Matrix playing bass for Lightning Hopkins for ten dollars a night. 0:51:42.000 --> 0:51:45.279 And this ten dollars was like a million dollars to me. Man, 0:51:45.360 --> 0:51:47.800 that was that three dollars for a tank of gas 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:50.440 in the Volkswagen bus and food for a week. You know, 0:51:51.200 --> 0:51:55.600 I needed this money. And it's Lightning Hopkins. So I'm 0:51:55.600 --> 0:51:58.200 playing bass with Lightning, and as you know, Lightning plays 0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:00.400 like thirteen and a half bar blues and then fourteen 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:02.200 barb b losing the ten barb bl loues and he 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:05.719 kind of kind of watching them. I'm playing with him, 0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:09.080 and I'm kind of doing real good, you know. Now 0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:11.560 I'm kind of beginning to play. He goes, wait a minute, 0:52:11.560 --> 0:52:14.319 Wait a minute, wait a minute. Everybody stop, Nobody do 0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:17.719 nothing but me, and there's just him and me on 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:28.000 the stage. I mean, you know, it's the most embarrassing, 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:31.440 emulating moment in my life. And I needed that ten dollars. 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.600 Yeah I did. I kept the gig, you know, and 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:40.719 and Chuck Berry started doing that to the band and 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:45.000 I just couldn't tolerate that. And later, like five or 0:52:45.080 --> 0:52:48.600 six years later, I was at home by myself and 0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:54.520 I was watching Austin City Limits and Lightning Hopkins is 0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:58.839 playing a stratocaster with a wah wah pedal, just doing 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:02.439 this show hell in it with this great blues band 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:04.719 behind him and they're just ripping it up. And all 0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:06.959 of a sudden, he goes, hold, hold, hold, wait minute, 0:53:07.040 --> 0:53:11.719 everybody stop. Nobody do nothing but me, and I went, oh, 0:53:11.920 --> 0:53:14.480 it's a riff. It's like, let's have a hand for 0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:18.200 what's your name, Welcome to the blues club, you know, 0:53:18.840 --> 0:53:24.680 And so when Chuck did that. You know, I had 0:53:24.760 --> 0:53:27.080 done so many gigs with him, but first gig I 0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:31.280 did with Chuck Berry was like, went like this, Bill 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:34.680 Graham came to me, he says, and you're right. We 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:37.680 got First of all, we got to San Francisco and 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:41.359 I just went, what the hell is this? You know, 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:45.040 the Grateful Dead were like standing around for fifteen minutes 0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:48.520 and they do like a bad version of in the 0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:52.279 Midnight Hour for twenty minutes and wasn't good, but you know, 0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:54.400 twenty minutes of like come on man. 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:55.600 You were sober watching them? 0:53:55.680 --> 0:54:00.120 Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah gee look at the time, you know, 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:05.359 so it was all the bands were like, uh, they 0:54:05.360 --> 0:54:06.760 weren't really good. 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:11.120 Bands, and they were like guys who'd been playing acoustic 0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:13.040 guitar who decided they were going to get some beatle 0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:15.080 boots and a groovy coat and a scarf and grow 0:54:15.120 --> 0:54:18.520 their hair long and have a rock band and they're 0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:21.520 going to be rock stars. So I got out there. 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:24.920 I'd been working in Chicago, where Junior Wells would steal 0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:27.120 your gig if he sat in, if he could, you know, 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:30.160 I mean, everybody had to be really good, and I 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:33.399 was like on time, great sets, everything was really good. 0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:36.360 So I was like the first real professional band in 0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:37.520 the scene. 0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:39.840 So right now you're destroying the myth of what we 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:43.520 thought that the San Francisco Musician was about. Like you're 0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:47.759 just saying that they were mediocre at best or just. 0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:58.839 The band, right, The bands were a social phenomena. No, no, 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:01.640 And you know, the Jeffer Airplane was kind of interesting. 0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:03.839 They did some things good and then other things are 0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:08.839 just like insufferably boring, you know. And and so it 0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:12.839 was what I finally realized was I'm standing there, going, 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:16.920 what is this? You know, what's going on here? And 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:19.880 I finally went, it's a social phenomena. This is like, 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:25.680 this is about acid, This is about an awakening, this 0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:29.040 is about a renaissance. This is about a moment in 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.480 time that's like happens maybe every three or four hundred years. 0:55:32.600 --> 0:55:38.640 It's a music and music is the the the hook 0:55:38.680 --> 0:55:44.080 they're hanging it on. And so I like that once 0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.799 I understood it, because I went, I get it. It's 0:55:46.800 --> 0:55:48.319 a social phenomena. 0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:49.359 But I like that. 0:55:49.560 --> 0:55:51.640 I like that, But I want to change things. I 0:55:51.680 --> 0:55:54.160 want to see the world change too. I'm I don't 0:55:54.160 --> 0:55:56.600 want to have a crew cut anymore. I don't want 0:55:56.680 --> 0:55:59.480 to go to you know, some company and get trained 0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:01.759 for six weeks and then work there for the rest 0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:04.360 of my life, you know, and do that that fifties 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:09.160 early sixties thing. I want a life, a much different life. 0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:13.200 And so, you know, the expansion, the mind expansion that 0:56:13.239 --> 0:56:15.440 took place, and then it filtered into the music, and 0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:17.600 then all of a sudden things started getting good. And 0:56:17.640 --> 0:56:20.960 what was hip was so we go to Bill Graham 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:23.759 and go, hey, man, you gotta get James Cotton out here. 0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:26.719 You got to get Junior Wells out here. You got 0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:29.359 to get Howland Wolf out here. You got to get 0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:32.799 Rolling Kirk out here. You should get Miles Davis to 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:36.080 come here. You know, Johnny Cash should come here and play. 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:38.359 You should have you know, and we just started giving 0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:38.879 him names. 0:56:39.000 --> 0:56:41.319 You were the influence that brought them out, because a 0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:43.320 lot of us were like, no, a lot. 0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:45.279 Of us were, you know, But I was like, yeah, 0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:46.920 I was the guy who went and picked up Holland 0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:49.440 Wolf and my bus. You know when he arrived at 0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:51.719 the airport. You know, James and his band stayed at 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:54.480 my house, you know, when they came to town. But 0:56:55.440 --> 0:56:59.000 and you know, I was there the first night BB 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:03.480 King played, I was there. I backed up John Lee 0:57:03.520 --> 0:57:06.520 Hooker on his first night. I did Chuck Berry Show 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:10.120 and the BB King show at the Fillmore. You know, 0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:13.239 they talk about it and bb cried that night and 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:16.360 all that stuff. It was pretty amazing here. It was 0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:19.680 like everybody was just BB King's going to be here, 0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:23.640 you know, And I'm opening for BB King and uh I, 0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:25.640 you know, I do my sound checking stuff and then 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:28.840 we're getting ready to play and I noticed, you know, 0:57:29.320 --> 0:57:33.280 BB King's guitar tech has put BB King's loose seal 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:36.680 on his guitar stand on the stage during my set, 0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:41.240 and they get a little spotlight on it. You know, 0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:45.360 what's this? You know. I don't like that, you know. 0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:48.960 So I'm playing doing as good as I can because 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:54.000 Bbe's in the house and I break a string and 0:57:54.160 --> 0:57:57.360 I go and I go, fuck it. He's going to 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:02.680 put his guitar on the picked it up, plugged it in. 0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:09.240 Hey this listen, I'm in competition with BB King. I 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:13.720 want slot. You know, that's the way music is. You know, 0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:17.080 there's no Once you play in Chicago, you learn very 0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:20.760 quickly this is serious business, you know, And if somebody's 0:58:20.960 --> 0:58:24.600 fucking around with you in your stage, you know, Yeah, 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:28.240 But I wasn't looking to until I broke the string. However, 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:33.880 when I picked up Lucile and plunged it in and 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:43.360 looked at the controls, I went, what the boom? You know, 0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:46.680 it was just totally basy and everything, and and you 0:58:46.720 --> 0:58:49.920 know it was one of those stereo Gibson things, you know, 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:54.080 it's never used. And then I got the tone and 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:59.680 I had a note, and the guitar was so delicately 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:05.040 set up the bridge collapsed. It just went pop and 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:13.920 the strings went flat and and uh and I pulled 0:59:13.920 --> 0:59:17.400 it back up and strings back on it and kind 0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:20.080 of like ended the set and got left the building. 0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:23.000 As that's going on. 0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:25.400 How long is this process that that the audience is watching? 0:59:25.440 --> 0:59:26.760 You like grabbed the guitar. 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:28.720 Well, I'm sure you didn't let the audience know. 0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:30.800 No, no, no, no no no, that just was like 0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:33.120 it broke a string, put the guitar down, here's another one, 0:59:33.200 --> 0:59:34.680 picked it up. 0:59:36.560 --> 0:59:37.160 But good night. 0:59:38.560 --> 0:59:41.040 Bb I saw Biby come out and do a show 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:46.000 one time and break a string and uh, reach into 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:48.160 his well. First of all, he broke a string while 0:59:48.160 --> 0:59:52.240 he was singing, and he just kept singing, never looked 0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:54.439 at it. He went down here and he like took 0:59:54.480 --> 0:59:58.400 the string off, and I'm not making any of this up. 0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:01.760 Reached into his pocket and pulled out a string in 1:00:01.840 --> 1:00:05.800 a package and took the string out, and he's singing 1:00:05.800 --> 1:00:07.400 the whole time. He put it in here, and he 1:00:07.520 --> 1:00:11.200 just kept doing this and then he went bang and 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:12.680 off he went, you know, and it was. 1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:15.240 Like without looking once, he just put the string on. 1:00:15.400 --> 1:00:19.960 I'm telling you, man, I to him. It was in 1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:24.000 a little club and Sun Valley, Idaho, was sitting right 1:00:24.040 --> 1:00:28.600 there like that, and I just went, how many times? 1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:31.640 You know, it's like the handkerchief trip? How many times 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:33.840 do you have to do that before you can or 1:00:34.160 --> 1:00:34.880 have that happen? 1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:36.360 You know? Have you ever tried to do that? 1:00:36.840 --> 1:00:38.120 Uh? No? 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:42.960 So I know that I know that you had your 1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:47.800 eyes on Paul Butterfield's slot. You know that I want that. 1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:51.200 But one thing you didn't mention was the desire to 1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:53.600 get a record deal, which I'm wondering, why did you 1:00:53.720 --> 1:00:58.240 choose San fran over Los Angeles and how did record 1:00:58.320 --> 1:00:59.040 label start calling? 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:02.000 So I had a record deal with Barry Goldberg. We 1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:06.200 had the Goldberg Miller blues band in Chicago, and and 1:01:06.280 --> 1:01:14.960 we got. He had a swanky, sleazy manager, Steve Yeah, yeah, 1:01:15.400 --> 1:01:20.480 and uh swanky and and uh. We were given a 1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:23.480 day and a half to make a record. And while 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:26.439 we're making the record, some guy came in and was going, yeah, 1:01:26.560 --> 1:01:28.960 you guys, you know, you guys should be doing some 1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:31.280 Jerry Lee Lewiston's. You know, he's trying to tell us 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:33.160 what to record and what to do and everything. The 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:36.640 engineers hated us. The earphone was one of his little black, 1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:39.320 hard rubber things, you know, with one side and a 1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:43.080 big pole coming out of it. We made this record 1:01:43.480 --> 1:01:46.720 and went to New York and we were on the 1:01:46.800 --> 1:01:50.520 Hulla Blue Show with the Supremes and the Four Tops. Ok, 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:56.120 and we got We did the show, and then we 1:01:56.160 --> 1:01:59.960 stayed in New York and went into the A night 1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:03.040 club here right after the Young Rascals left, and we 1:02:03.240 --> 1:02:06.280 saw the whole New York scene went back to Chicago. 1:02:06.440 --> 1:02:11.600 The whole Chicago scene was gone, just in two months. 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:16.240 It just disappeared. Because what had happened was Woof and 1:02:16.720 --> 1:02:20.080 Muddy had gotten gigs in colleges and now they could 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:22.440 make a whole lot more money than playing in nightclubs. 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:26.680 Their careers were over. When we were all working in Chicago, 1:02:26.800 --> 1:02:28.920 they had had their hits. It was done. They were 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:31.600 back in Chicago and they were just working, you know, 1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:35.280 in nightclubs. That's the only work they got. And now 1:02:35.320 --> 1:02:41.560 they were the whole scene just dispersed. So and I 1:02:41.600 --> 1:02:44.320 had a gig playing rhythm guitar and Buddy Guy's band 1:02:44.640 --> 1:02:48.120 and for three weeks, and you had to have a 1:02:48.120 --> 1:02:51.240 shot of bourbon before each set, and there were like 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:56.600 seven sets a night when I lasted like three weeks 1:02:56.600 --> 1:03:00.680 and just a buddy a kid, and I went and 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:03.320 I got to San Francisco. So what happened in San 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:08.320 Francisco was okay, it had a record deal. I realized 1:03:08.840 --> 1:03:11.120 a whole bunch of things really quickly, and I had 1:03:11.280 --> 1:03:16.640 gotten out of that deal forcefully. I made them fire 1:03:16.720 --> 1:03:21.600 me in Chicago and publicly because I figured I was 1:03:21.640 --> 1:03:25.080 going to have a contractual problem with Berry's manager later, 1:03:25.160 --> 1:03:27.000 which I did, but I kicked his butt. So it 1:03:27.080 --> 1:03:32.960 was so I went to to uh San Francisco and 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:36.800 was there for about six or seven months. Did the 1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:39.720 Chuck Berry thing, which just came up out of nowhere, 1:03:39.760 --> 1:03:42.320 like hey, Chuck Berry's coming to town, made him rehearse 1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:43.120 for two days. 1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:45.120 I'm surprised he did that. 1:03:45.320 --> 1:03:49.120 Yeah, what he did that was upsetting was he rehearsed 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.400 for two days, and we hung for two days, had 1:03:52.400 --> 1:03:55.800 a great time, and then five minutes before the show started, 1:03:56.120 --> 1:03:58.560 a friend has showed up. They went out and got 1:03:58.640 --> 1:04:00.840 high on some smack or something, and he came in 1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:03.080 and did the whole show. Like at halftime. It was 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:09.800 just that very slow set, and that was disappointing, you know. 1:04:10.040 --> 1:04:13.640 But so now I'm seeing this and now there's a 1:04:13.720 --> 1:04:19.000 feeding frenzy in San Francisco to sign anything that's walking, 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:23.600 you know. I mean they were given thirty thousand dollars 1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:24.840 to anybody. 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:25.600 Set and. 1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:31.600 Ten times what it was in Seattle. It really so. 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:37.920 I mean I had fourteen record companies giving me offers, 1:04:38.480 --> 1:04:41.080 fourteen of them. So now I'm in a feeding frenzy, 1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:44.000 and I got everything's going the way I wanted to 1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:47.560 go because I'd had a little taste of the record business, 1:04:47.560 --> 1:04:50.760 and I learned very quickly that I wanted to complete 1:04:50.840 --> 1:04:54.720 artistic control over everything, every picture, every cover, every album, 1:04:54.760 --> 1:04:57.720 everything they said, anything they put out, any music I did. 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:00.680 I had to own all the publishing all of it. 1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:04.720 I had to own my songwriting. No, you can't have 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:08.160 any of that. Wow. And not only that, I need 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:11.040 enough money in a no cut contract to make five 1:05:11.080 --> 1:05:12.800 albums because I got to learn how to do this. 1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:15.800 Thank you? 1:05:16.960 --> 1:05:19.120 And how did you learn to? 1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:22.960 Yes? I was like, Wow, when you run a band 1:05:23.640 --> 1:05:27.200 from the time you're twelve years old, life is really simple, 1:05:27.720 --> 1:05:30.520 you know, like the things I just told you, You know, 1:05:30.720 --> 1:05:34.280 when you talked to brilliant musicians and they go, come, man, 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:37.120 how did you How are you so smart to know 1:05:37.200 --> 1:05:39.800 you should keep your publishing because I kept track of 1:05:39.840 --> 1:05:43.919 the money, clown. You know what, you think somebody's gonna 1:05:43.920 --> 1:05:46.200 take care of that for you know, nobody ever takes 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:48.840 care of that, you know. And so like if somebody said, hey, man, 1:05:48.880 --> 1:05:51.080 we want you to come to Streetport, Louisiana and play 1:05:51.120 --> 1:05:52.640 a gig. We're gonna pay you one hundred and twenty 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:56.480 five dollars, I'd say, well, that'll cover the gas. You know, 1:05:56.920 --> 1:05:59.760 it's gonna be two thousand dollars or whatever. I mean. 1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:03.760 I just and I always said, like I always said, 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:06.560 I'm not going to like gouge anybody, but I'm not 1:06:06.600 --> 1:06:08.520 going to be taking advantage if I just want to 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:10.880 be on kind of a little win win situation for 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:12.920 everybody except with the record company. 1:06:12.920 --> 1:06:17.040 And I had a friend who was a prosecuting attorney 1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:21.240 and San Francisco, and he didn't care about being a 1:06:21.360 --> 1:06:26.000 music industry lawyer because all music industry lawyers work for 1:06:26.320 --> 1:06:30.320 record companies. Rather than I don't worry about that. I'll 1:06:30.320 --> 1:06:32.480 go take care of Jimmy Hendricks. I'll get him signed 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:35.320 up here and everything will be great, you know. Whatever 1:06:35.440 --> 1:06:38.840 that happened all the time. My guy was didn't care. 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:40.920 And I went to him and I said, this is 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:43.960 like slavery. They want to you know, but you know, 1:06:43.960 --> 1:06:45.800 if I sell a million records, they're going to want 1:06:45.840 --> 1:06:50.040 to give me a car, you know, you know, four 1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:52.760 thousand dollars in cash and stuff. This is the way 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:56.400 it's treated, you know. And I want to own everything 1:06:56.440 --> 1:07:00.520 and these are the things I want. And oh we 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:02.760 just started and they said, well nobody gets that. And 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:05.400 he said, well I don't want it. I'm not signing. 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:09.440 And I wouldn't. What I did was said no for 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:13.680 nine months. And it's like the term of pregnancy, you know, 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.800 it took nine months. It just nothing, no, no, he's 1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:20.200 not not interested. And I had guys come in to 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:22.520 see me and asking me to do all kinds of 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:26.160 stupid things. And every time a record company would say like, well, 1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:28.520 hey man, why don't you come on over to the 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:31.520 studio tomorrow morning. We'd like to cut some tracks. See 1:07:31.520 --> 1:07:33.040 how you guys do in the studio and go. You 1:07:33.080 --> 1:07:36.440 expect me to carry my gear from this? You just 1:07:36.520 --> 1:07:38.320 saw what I do, and you want me to come 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:40.720 over and you want to test me. You go back 1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:43.360 to Hollywood and till the president of the record company 1:07:43.360 --> 1:07:45.720 if he wants to talk to me, here's my number, 1:07:46.680 --> 1:07:48.360 you know, and I. 1:07:48.280 --> 1:07:49.560 Have Everyone was a suit. 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:53.040 Everybody was a switter, and anyone that was like hip 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:55.680 because you hear people are like, I'm so passionate about music. 1:07:55.720 --> 1:07:57.120 But were they all just suits? 1:07:57.400 --> 1:07:59.960 No, they were all suits, and they were all husted. 1:08:00.520 --> 1:08:04.320 And we really began to look at everybody from las 1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:07.840 kind of like a weasel and a rat. And somebody 1:08:07.920 --> 1:08:12.040 was trying to steal everything. And I did my contract. 1:08:12.080 --> 1:08:15.120 I got my contract done, and I brought my contract 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:18.519 down to a community band meeting at the Carousel Ballroom 1:08:18.560 --> 1:08:21.439 and gave it to everybody and said, this is what 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:24.400 you need to get. So there was this kind of 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:29.439 community going on. We had our newspapers and our poster 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.439 art and our shows, and we were we were inventing 1:08:32.520 --> 1:08:35.559 it all. It was all coming from San Francisco. La 1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:39.920 wasn't turning out anything except pop crap. You know, come 1:08:39.960 --> 1:08:44.320 to San Francisco. Here's some flowers in your hair, you know, 1:08:44.400 --> 1:08:48.519 that kind of stuff. And we were like beginning to 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:50.679 go out. And so when we would come to your town, 1:08:50.720 --> 1:08:53.320 it was like we were carrying the culture on a platter. 1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:56.760 Here we are, here's the culture. Here's what it is. 1:08:56.920 --> 1:08:59.840 Here's the light show. Excuse us while we jam on, 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:02.840 fly like an eagle for an hour, you know. And 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:07.479 it just that's what it turned into. And it grew 1:09:07.600 --> 1:09:10.320 and grew and grew and grew, and people came from 1:09:10.320 --> 1:09:13.840 all over the world. So there was a huge awakening 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:18.519 and it happened in San Francisco, and it happened around 1:09:18.840 --> 1:09:23.000 psychedelic drugs, really, and it happened in an area where 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:28.600 there was a lot of leeway for artists and bohemians 1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:31.760 and poets, and you know, San Francisco is a really 1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:33.800 great place. And then it. 1:09:35.120 --> 1:09:39.400 Were you the loan Cynic in that whole atmosphere. Yeah, 1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:41.679 for a while I was down h Street and people 1:09:41.760 --> 1:09:43.439 just put a flower in your. 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:47.040 Lapion, Yeah out like I mean I was, I was. 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:49.320 I was a cynic about the bands. I sort of 1:09:49.360 --> 1:09:51.479 regret a lot of what I said about a lot 1:09:51.520 --> 1:09:53.599 of these people I have now known for fifty years 1:09:53.640 --> 1:09:55.559 and they're still playing, you know, But I used to go, 1:09:55.680 --> 1:09:57.760 this is just such nonsense. 1:09:57.800 --> 1:09:59.439 Well, I know you're saying it now in hindsight, but 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:02.479 were you that honest back when you were doing press 1:10:02.960 --> 1:10:07.160 sixty eight, sixty nine to seventy, like, yeah, yeah, Stone whatever, you. 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:08.880 Know, like, oh no, no, it was there was no 1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:10.040 Sly Stone whatever. 1:10:10.240 --> 1:10:11.599 Well, okay, that was my. 1:10:14.479 --> 1:10:17.759 I was in the studio. Sly was cutting his tracks 1:10:17.760 --> 1:10:20.599 and I never heard rhythm tracks like that in my life. 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:26.879 Just the whole building was just doing it. I opened 1:10:26.880 --> 1:10:32.599 for Sly one time, another hard gig. This was This 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:34.800 was when Sly was healthy and he was okay, oh 1:10:34.920 --> 1:10:39.360 damn was and he was unbelievable, is what it was like. 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:41.519 It was one of the greatest nights you ever saw 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:46.800 in your life. And I'm down to like playing as 1:10:46.840 --> 1:10:50.679 a power trio, you know. You know, it's like we're 1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:53.519 a power trio now because that's all we could afford. 1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:57.679 We're opening for Sly. You know. It's like nineteen whatever 1:10:57.760 --> 1:11:01.360 it was, and people are going get off the fucking 1:11:01.479 --> 1:11:08.680 stage where Sly and I'm like playing space Cowboys. It's 1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:11.599 really are its I gotta get up the stage. We're 1:11:11.600 --> 1:11:16.639 gonna leave now, so, you know. And I'm watching slide 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:20.760 play and it's the only time in my life I've 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:23.639 ever left the building. I said, we have to leave 1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:26.960 the building because the balcony is gonna collapse. Come on, 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:30.320 we gotta go right now, right now. The balcony was 1:11:30.360 --> 1:11:35.519 doing this, it was going up, you know, and then 1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:39.719 it was kind of going like that, you know. And yeah, seriously, 1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:45.479 I've never seen, never seen that in my line. I'm 1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:48.280 telling you, man, I had. I left the building because 1:11:48.320 --> 1:11:51.479 I just thought, you know, I took my guys with me. 1:11:51.600 --> 1:11:53.400 I said, we have to leave, we have to get outside. 1:11:53.560 --> 1:11:56.840 This is not this isn't gonna last, you know. But 1:11:56.960 --> 1:12:00.800 Sly was until the drug so I was like one 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:04.080 of the greatest things that ever happened. And I didn't 1:12:04.200 --> 1:12:06.320 like the San Francisco bands, and I didn't like that 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:08.800 much of the San Francisco music, and I'm you know, 1:12:08.840 --> 1:12:12.599 I like Moby Grape. You know, I kept seeing all 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:15.839 the bands, like, you know, when Steven Stills in Buffalo 1:12:15.880 --> 1:12:19.280 Springfield came in, you know, like didn't like them. I 1:12:19.280 --> 1:12:22.479 didn't like that kind of cowboy buckskin gretch guitar thing. 1:12:24.800 --> 1:12:30.880 They were all ego maniacs. No, they didn't really get 1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:33.479 down and play, you know. And the band I did 1:12:33.640 --> 1:12:36.400 like was The Doors. Oh wow, okay, you know, Doors 1:12:36.439 --> 1:12:39.200 came up and I comeing, Man, that's that's smart man. 1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:41.240 That guys get that little bass thing there, and it's 1:12:41.280 --> 1:12:44.000 real clear and it sounds good, you know, because most 1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:47.559 of the time it sounded pretty bad, you know. And 1:12:47.720 --> 1:12:50.680 these bands really they didn't have enough experience. I had 1:12:50.680 --> 1:12:54.840 already played you know, a thousand gigs from the you know, 1:12:54.920 --> 1:12:57.639 the seventh grade through college. I mean I had really 1:12:57.640 --> 1:13:01.360 played a lot and was you know, wanted things to 1:13:01.439 --> 1:13:03.599 sound good. You know, sound was a big important part. 1:13:03.640 --> 1:13:08.120 And then you know, when the Dead started like their approach, 1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:12.280 this would be the San Francisco approach to sound. Two 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:16.680 hundred Macintosh stereo amplifiers hooked up to a bunch of 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:20.800 speakers stacked right behind the band the temperature behind the 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:22.920 stage was four hundred and seventy. 1:13:22.600 --> 1:13:24.240 Degree, you know. 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:32.519 I mean, you know, the approach was like crazy and 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:36.840 drugged out and too much money and too much stuff. 1:13:36.880 --> 1:13:38.880 And like I looked at all those bands, like they 1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:42.439 all had kind of drug dealers for managers. So they 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:45.479 had all this money. They were the local guys. I 1:13:45.560 --> 1:13:48.360 was from out of town. I had to make my way. 1:13:48.400 --> 1:13:51.000 I had to you know, do my way. I felt 1:13:51.040 --> 1:13:53.800 like I personally kept the film Ore Auditorium open for 1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:56.120 Bill Graham. I played their one hundred and twenty times, 1:13:56.920 --> 1:13:59.000 you know. I mean when they needed help, I was 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:02.800 the guy that had to be you know. But the 1:14:02.920 --> 1:14:06.640 scene just grew and it kept growing and it it 1:14:07.040 --> 1:14:11.400 got better, and it gave me a place where I 1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:15.120 could do a stake and get a recording contract. My 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:20.559 concept of a recording contract was like the Beatles or something. Man. 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:23.040 I was going, Man, I can't wait too get in 1:14:23.120 --> 1:14:25.680 there and make some records. And I'd worked as a 1:14:25.840 --> 1:14:29.040 you know, janitor at a recording studio in Dallas, and 1:14:29.479 --> 1:14:32.200 I had been ping ponging back and forth and quarter 1:14:32.280 --> 1:14:35.640 inch track tapes, you know, stereo machines for years and 1:14:36.160 --> 1:14:38.640 working on all of this stuff trying to you know, 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:43.639 get stuff together, but very rarely was able to get 1:14:43.680 --> 1:14:46.840 into a studio. And the studios were crappy, you know. 1:14:46.880 --> 1:14:50.400 They were like four track, and then it was eight track, 1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:52.000 and then it was twelve track, and then it was 1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:55.920 sixteen track, and then it was so getting a record deal. 1:14:56.479 --> 1:15:00.960 Being able to do that, I thought, it's going to 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:05.120 be really great. And I went down to LA to 1:15:05.200 --> 1:15:08.200 do the first sessions at Capitol Records, and I'm thinking, man, 1:15:08.360 --> 1:15:10.920 I'm finally sending the deal. I got everything I want. 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:13.760 These guys are gonna help me produce my record. This 1:15:13.840 --> 1:15:16.120 is going to be really great. Got there and they said, well, 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:19.040 your studio time starts at midnight, and so, well why 1:15:19.080 --> 1:15:20.479 is that? And they said, well, you know, the studios 1:15:20.479 --> 1:15:24.599 are booked, but we've got you a session at midnight, okay, 1:15:24.920 --> 1:15:28.040 And we man, we'd driven down in the bus, you know, 1:15:28.120 --> 1:15:30.160 with the we had the B three in there, the 1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:33.320 band in there, everything, you know, the Leslie, all our stuff. 1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:36.519 We get in there and set it all up and 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:40.000 it's about three o'clock in the morning, about time we're 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:43.960 ready to really start read. You know, I'm too tired, 1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:46.080 but you know, we're set, but we got you know, 1:15:46.080 --> 1:15:48.160 we got a good drum sound. Let's let's come back 1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:52.800 tomorrow and we'll start, okay, I said, well, it's going 1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:56.080 to be midnight again. I said, well all right. So 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:59.240 we get there at you know, eleven o'clock or and 1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:01.519 they say you have to move all your equipment from 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:04.759 studio beat A studio A because somebody else needs studio. 1:16:06.840 --> 1:16:08.760 So we move it, We set it up, and we 1:16:08.800 --> 1:16:12.760 get ready to record, and the engineering department walks out. 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:15.280 What now, you walk out walked. 1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:17.200 Out of the building. They just left, and we were 1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:21.280 just standing, what do you mean? They what? So I 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:24.240 go call my executive producer, John Palladin, you know, and 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.519 I say, you know, I'm here at the studio. This 1:16:26.560 --> 1:16:29.720 is what's happened in the last two days. You can 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:32.240 have your money back, you can have your contract back. 1:16:32.760 --> 1:16:35.920 You know. I'm done here, you know. Oh no, no, no, no, no, 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:37.760 no no no no no no, no, no no no. 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:44.120 And that's when yeah, I went, okay, I've been so 1:16:44.320 --> 1:16:47.120 naive and stupid about record companies. You know this. There's 1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:49.759 nobody's going to help me do anything. I'm in a cesspool. 1:16:49.880 --> 1:16:53.120 Everybody's fighting for the same resources, and guess what, all 1:16:53.120 --> 1:16:55.559 the engineers are sort of right wing crew cut, kind 1:16:55.560 --> 1:16:58.080 of Vietnam Vett kind of guys who don't like me 1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:01.599 at all. In fact, they don't really want me here 1:17:01.680 --> 1:17:06.040 because I'm this dirty hippie, you know. And that's what 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:10.439 it was. So because that had been so smart and 1:17:10.520 --> 1:17:15.640 made that great deal the fact there's stuff up but 1:17:16.320 --> 1:17:19.600 the USS United States and went to London and recorded 1:17:19.640 --> 1:17:20.920 at Olympic Studios. 1:17:21.040 --> 1:17:25.320 I was gonna say, because the legendary Glenn Johns was 1:17:25.360 --> 1:17:28.080 involved with the first four records. 1:17:27.720 --> 1:17:31.720 Correct, Yeah, and he was our engineer and he was 1:17:31.800 --> 1:17:32.800 always legendary. 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:36.360 But I was gonna say, did you purposely for the No, 1:17:36.520 --> 1:17:40.600 like Glenn John's like shaped rolling stone stuff, but I 1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:42.759 mean more importantly, like that's just the way he engineered, 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:45.920 especially with led Zeppelin's like records. 1:17:46.320 --> 1:17:47.799 No, No, that's his brother Andy. 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:50.960 Wait so there are two of them, Yeah, there's two. 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:54.639 So here's the thing. Glenn Johns was this very rigid 1:17:54.720 --> 1:17:58.320 British pop guy who had a pop haircut and an 1:17:58.360 --> 1:18:02.160 alligator skin jacket and a briefcase and drove an xke 1:18:02.360 --> 1:18:05.120 and come on, let's here we go. He was like 1:18:06.320 --> 1:18:09.280 and he had done, and he was He had come 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:12.880 up as an engineer in the British, the London pop scene, 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:16.600 pop music, so they made good records. We got to 1:18:16.800 --> 1:18:20.040 Olympic Studios and as soon as we got there, there's 1:18:20.080 --> 1:18:22.920 a guy named Jick Sweatingham who invented a whole lot 1:18:22.960 --> 1:18:24.960 of great stuff, who was like working on the board 1:18:25.000 --> 1:18:27.719 and we just went, oh, this is gonna be great. 1:18:27.920 --> 1:18:30.360 They really really want to make the guitar sound good. 1:18:30.600 --> 1:18:33.040 We'd record in the States and you'd cut something and 1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:34.640 sound great, and you go and listen to it and 1:18:34.680 --> 1:18:36.679 you know it sound this big, and you'd go, God, 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:40.640 what happened. So start working with Glenn. He's our engineer, 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:45.920 and I'm just totally at war with him because I 1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:49.400 like the stack sound. I like the otis writing sound. 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:52.759 I like that dry, real sound, and he's got everything 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:54.680 going through a plate and it's all kind of in 1:18:54.720 --> 1:19:02.360 a reverb chamber. And we're just arguing about presence every day, argue, argue, argue, argue, argue. 1:19:02.960 --> 1:19:05.720 But you know, at the same time, he knew how 1:19:05.800 --> 1:19:08.680 to like get guys together and organize big. He was 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:13.559 up for fast multi tracking and stuff. So we started 1:19:13.640 --> 1:19:16.479 learning quickly. You know how to make records, how to 1:19:16.520 --> 1:19:18.160 cut tracks, how to really do it? 1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:22.040 Was this on for eight track by the Time Children 1:19:22.160 --> 1:19:24.840 Futures for Yeah? Okay, okay, Now I have a question. 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:32.479 A lot of your one of your signature trademarks are well, 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:36.599 obviously you're you're an albums based artist instead of just. 1:19:37.360 --> 1:19:38.760 For electronic music, aren't. 1:19:39.160 --> 1:19:43.360 Well you don't understand. 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:46.040 I can't wait for this. 1:19:47.520 --> 1:19:51.120 Wait. But what I'm saying is that a majority of 1:19:51.160 --> 1:19:56.040 your albums sort of have this cinematic intro to it. 1:19:56.080 --> 1:19:56.680 You don't. 1:19:58.160 --> 1:20:01.920 I'm just scouting space, even with the the fatality of records. 1:20:02.240 --> 1:20:05.200 I mean all most of your records. You start this 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:09.280 album with a damn near a two minute drone, so 1:20:10.040 --> 1:20:13.400 in your mind, I mean, I know that in the 1:20:13.479 --> 1:20:16.639 late sixties the whole don't bores, get to the chorus, 1:20:16.800 --> 1:20:19.639 you know, just throw your hit sing out front and whatever. 1:20:19.800 --> 1:20:20.720 Well that's singles. 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:23.320 Albums are different, right, But I'm just saying that no 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:26.000 one's truly thinking in terms of crafting albums. 1:20:26.600 --> 1:20:30.280 So well, there were you know, like the Beatles were 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:38.240 doing it, and this stuff comes from like symphonic music 1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:42.160 and like Bozo goes to the circus, turn page to 1:20:42.400 --> 1:20:47.640 put the next disc on, and you know, Sparky and 1:20:48.400 --> 1:20:53.720 the radio mystery shows and all of that stuff that 1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:58.320 I listened to all the time as a kid. Made 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:04.160 making an album cinematic. So it's more like, we're gonna 1:21:04.160 --> 1:21:08.160 go someplace. We're going into this special place, We're gonna 1:21:08.200 --> 1:21:11.439 listen to this thing. It's gonna be real wide and 1:21:11.479 --> 1:21:14.160 broad and deep, and there's a you know, if you're 1:21:14.200 --> 1:21:17.519 willing to do this, you know, And and that was 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:20.400 always my goal. And I was into stockhaus And I 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:24.960 don't know if you've listened to Stockhausen, but I went 1:21:25.000 --> 1:21:27.000 to Germany and met him in and went to a 1:21:27.040 --> 1:21:31.960 studio and saw how he did things. And I always 1:21:32.160 --> 1:21:37.920 loved the idea of creating a big horizon or a 1:21:38.040 --> 1:21:41.760 space and having it be like a story, like it's 1:21:41.800 --> 1:21:44.720 a musical journey, it's not just one tune. And at 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:48.400 the same time, then you have to pull the one 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:51.200 tune out, and then that's a whole other game. Making 1:21:51.320 --> 1:21:54.320 single records and that's a whole other art. So it's 1:21:55.720 --> 1:21:57.400 two different approaches. 1:21:57.439 --> 1:22:01.040 As far as engineering is concerned. You would re engineered 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:03.720 and mix a song that was going to be a 1:22:03.760 --> 1:22:05.680 single for specific reasons. 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:08.120 Or yeah, yeah, as soon as we could. Yes, And 1:22:08.960 --> 1:22:11.720 you know it was always hard. I mean, like back then, 1:22:11.760 --> 1:22:13.599 you know, like if you wanted to change the running order, 1:22:13.640 --> 1:22:15.120 you had to cut all the tunes up and put 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:18.719 them on separate reels. You know, if you had fourteen 1:22:18.760 --> 1:22:21.240 songs or twelve songs, you had twelve different reels, and 1:22:21.240 --> 1:22:23.479 you go, okay, give me song number six. I'm gonna 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:25.840 make it song number two. Okay, splice it together. Okay, 1:22:26.000 --> 1:22:28.040 now splice all fourteen of them to give us this 1:22:28.080 --> 1:22:30.559 to that. No, that's not right, take it apart and 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:33.000 tis do it again. You know, it could take weeks 1:22:33.280 --> 1:22:38.680 just just doing the sequencing. So I always I just 1:22:38.960 --> 1:22:42.840 always like that sort of sense of like you're going 1:22:42.880 --> 1:22:45.080 on a journey. And when I when I tell you 1:22:45.160 --> 1:22:47.879 it's Boso Goes to the Circus, there is an actual 1:22:47.920 --> 1:22:51.080 album called Boso Goes to the Circus, and it's kind 1:22:51.080 --> 1:22:51.439 of like that. 1:22:56.320 --> 1:22:59.400 As far as your approach, I mean a lot of 1:22:59.400 --> 1:23:04.160 that earlier stuff was just blues heavy. How did you well, 1:23:04.439 --> 1:23:07.120 the thing is the one thing I didn't do even 1:23:07.120 --> 1:23:11.919 though I had Okay, So I went through two phases 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:15.400 of discovering your music naturally having it of course, you know, 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:17.639 my dad had like a couple of records, and then 1:23:17.760 --> 1:23:21.639 later my sister had a few records, and then once 1:23:21.720 --> 1:23:23.439 hip hop came to play, then I had to buy 1:23:23.680 --> 1:23:25.880 everything that any any artists ever made, just so I 1:23:25.920 --> 1:23:29.160 can study their discography. So the thing is, though I 1:23:29.320 --> 1:23:36.559 never looked at or even knew of rock critics disdain 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:42.160 for for white blues, of which you know, I mean 1:23:42.360 --> 1:23:49.120 like Rolling Stone, not tourist Lye would tear up well, 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:51.360 I mean because they were, well, you know, you didn't 1:23:51.360 --> 1:23:54.080 live this authentic blues life, so why are you approximating it? 1:23:54.560 --> 1:23:56.880 You know what white blues is? I mean, it sounds 1:23:56.880 --> 1:23:58.680 weird when you say it like that. What's give me? 1:23:58.760 --> 1:23:59.519 Like the three? 1:23:59.760 --> 1:23:59.840 Like? 1:24:00.360 --> 1:24:04.400 I mean, yeah, I mean his whole career. I mean, 1:24:04.439 --> 1:24:06.840 the basis of his career is taken. But the thing 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.360 is is that I'm now realizing the life that you 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:12.920 lived from Les Paul, entering your life into all the 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:15.519 people that you backed them when you couldn't help but 1:24:15.960 --> 1:24:16.639 take the torch. 1:24:17.439 --> 1:24:20.800 And when I got to Chicago and everybody I met 1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:23.519 in Chicago, these are just a bunch of white kids 1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:28.479 have been listening to records. I just went he's got 1:24:28.560 --> 1:24:34.599 a record contract, give me the mic, youll because where 1:24:34.600 --> 1:24:35.200 I grew up. 1:24:35.400 --> 1:24:38.960 So they were they amazed that, like you listened to 1:24:39.000 --> 1:24:41.200 him I play, he was in my living room, like 1:24:41.560 --> 1:24:41.960 I was. 1:24:41.920 --> 1:24:43.880 Trying to steal Muddy Water's gig. 1:24:45.320 --> 1:24:48.160 Oh So even then, Muddy Waters wasn't like a god. 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:49.200 He was still competition. 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:53.679 And it's like I told you, Muddy's career was over. 1:24:54.840 --> 1:24:58.639 They had had their hit singles, they were done. There 1:24:58.640 --> 1:25:02.800 weren't any gigs for Muddy w except in these night 1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:05.360 clubs in Chicago on the South Side and the near 1:25:05.439 --> 1:25:08.440 North Side. That was it. They might go to Detroit. 1:25:08.600 --> 1:25:13.759 Maybe they were living at home. Muddy was. I think 1:25:14.000 --> 1:25:17.400 Muddy was working as a janitor a Chess Records when 1:25:17.400 --> 1:25:23.600 the Rolling Stones came in. And I mean, it's just 1:25:23.960 --> 1:25:27.880 where it was there, and that was considered normal. You know, 1:25:28.120 --> 1:25:31.639 you made three records, you were a star for eighteen months, 1:25:31.720 --> 1:25:35.439 and you know, now it's the hula hoop. Somebody else's 1:25:35.439 --> 1:25:38.280 got sounds like hip hop today. You know, Yeah, in 1:25:38.280 --> 1:25:41.760 a minute, everything would change. And so when I got 1:25:41.800 --> 1:25:46.559 to Chicago, they were talking about this blues scene and 1:25:46.600 --> 1:25:51.040 they were talking about Paul Butterfield. Now Butter had a 1:25:51.080 --> 1:25:57.320 great band, and it was it was like the Little 1:25:57.360 --> 1:26:00.960 Walter Records sound before Mike Bloomfield joined the band and 1:26:01.000 --> 1:26:03.160 screwed it up in my opinion, And I know, people 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:08.040 go crazy when they it was. It was so sweet. 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:10.519 It was such a great blues band, you know. But 1:26:11.800 --> 1:26:13.920 I always felt like these were kids who like sat 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:17.280 around and you know, did this with records. And I 1:26:17.360 --> 1:26:21.360 never felt that way because I was listening to blues 1:26:21.360 --> 1:26:23.800 all of my life, when I was around blues musicians 1:26:23.840 --> 1:26:25.719 all of my life, and then growing up in Texas, 1:26:25.800 --> 1:26:27.880 I was around them all my life and T Bone 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:29.760 was the guy I learned to play lead from. So 1:26:29.840 --> 1:26:32.760 I didn't have I didn't have that issue of like 1:26:34.600 --> 1:26:36.599 I want to be a blues artist and I'm gonna 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:39.320 dress like one and I'm gonna talk like one, and 1:26:39.360 --> 1:26:41.760 i'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get a 1:26:41.800 --> 1:26:44.160 guitar just like that. I mean, it wasn't like that. 1:26:44.280 --> 1:26:46.040 It was just like, I want to play music, and 1:26:46.120 --> 1:26:49.000 this is the music that I'm I can see in 1:26:49.040 --> 1:26:51.320 front of me. So that was my difference. 1:26:51.479 --> 1:26:53.799 But wasn't it technically always going to be a disconnect, 1:26:53.840 --> 1:26:55.759 Cause now I'm getting what y'all was saying about white blues, 1:26:55.760 --> 1:26:58.080 black blues, But wasn't it always going to be a 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.920 disconnect sense? Muddy Water and all the black musicians were 1:27:01.960 --> 1:27:05.240 speaking from a place of pain, and regardless to if 1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:07.640 you were in their room, the room with them at 1:27:07.680 --> 1:27:13.200 the time, you would never really feel right what they are. 1:27:13.640 --> 1:27:18.640 White people have pain, y'all. 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:18.000 Not in America. 1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:18.719 Different. 1:27:18.760 --> 1:27:20.360 It's a different kind of pain in America. 1:27:20.520 --> 1:27:25.400 So you know, I think, like, first of all, first 1:27:25.439 --> 1:27:29.040 of all, like I used to hear Muddy Waters and 1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:32.639 Otis Span and that great band playing in a room 1:27:32.720 --> 1:27:36.120 the size of the room we're in right now, And 1:27:36.320 --> 1:27:44.320 what I was thinking was how great this sounds, How 1:27:44.400 --> 1:27:50.320 what a phenomenal you know, adults playing adult music. This 1:27:50.400 --> 1:27:55.120 is this is jazz, this is this is incredible. And 1:27:56.200 --> 1:28:01.559 you know, I think, you know, the music just gave 1:28:01.600 --> 1:28:05.320 you empathy. You know, I never, I mean, I didn't 1:28:05.360 --> 1:28:09.519 have this. Are you qualifying to play black blues? Yeah? 1:28:09.560 --> 1:28:13.599 I am. You know, let me show you. Let's play 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:17.720 some blues. Let's play forty four blues, baby, you know 1:28:17.840 --> 1:28:21.479 that kind of stuff. So I just it was my music. 1:28:21.720 --> 1:28:24.840 I didn't look at it as I'm learning Muddy Waters music. 1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:28.280 And so when I was around Muddy and Hollingwoof, I 1:28:29.760 --> 1:28:37.040 started growing up as a musician and I started seeing 1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:41.360 somebody who like played really great harmonica. I could learn 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:44.640 some things from that, or I saw somebody who was 1:28:44.800 --> 1:28:47.320 doing something, but I didn't see anybody playing guitar like 1:28:47.520 --> 1:28:50.920 t bon Walker and me I didn't think Buddy Guy 1:28:51.120 --> 1:28:53.479 was you know. I thought Buddy Guy and Junior Wells 1:28:53.520 --> 1:28:57.440 were like pretenders. You know, they were like the Junior. 1:28:57.120 --> 1:28:59.840 Set, whoa they were? 1:29:04.080 --> 1:29:07.559 They were they were clowns, they were clowning around. They 1:29:07.600 --> 1:29:09.880 were just fucking around. In the minute they got their 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:12.920 record contract, they stopped playing blues, and Junior did a 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:16.280 solo album and wanted to be James Brown. So everybody's 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:17.240 human here, you know. 1:29:17.360 --> 1:29:20.839 And so your thoughts on the what was the electric 1:29:20.920 --> 1:29:24.000 album that Muddy Waters did? Were electric clud or even 1:29:24.080 --> 1:29:27.040 that where he said Muddy Waters hates this, Yeah, what 1:29:27.200 --> 1:29:30.440 were your feelings on I didn't. 1:29:30.200 --> 1:29:36.840 Really like that that that approach. And I was asked 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:39.880 to do a record with John Lee Hooker and I said, well, yes, 1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:42.120 I'd love to. So I go over to the studio 1:29:42.160 --> 1:29:44.800 and there's like, here's what it was like, this is 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:48.840 the white Blues syndrome. Is a white guy producing the record, 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:51.519 going okay, John, all right, that's fine, just sit over there. 1:29:51.520 --> 1:29:55.040 And John Lee Hooker's like in a in the corner, 1:29:55.160 --> 1:29:57.200 you know, like he is, you know, kind of stuttering 1:29:57.240 --> 1:30:00.120 and sitting there and very shy man, you know. And 1:30:00.320 --> 1:30:05.439 outside there's like five white guys with long hair and 1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:09.800 guitar cases like next, and inside there's like a good 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:13.720 rhythm section and they're just coming next and they're just 1:30:13.880 --> 1:30:17.120 going to make this album. So I walked in and 1:30:17.280 --> 1:30:19.880 just said this is all wrong. And I started talking 1:30:19.920 --> 1:30:22.559 to John, and I said, man, let's do this, Let's 1:30:22.640 --> 1:30:24.840 do that, let's work on this, let's get going, you know, 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:29.280 let's do this stuff. And I did one tune and 1:30:29.600 --> 1:30:32.200 I was gone. You know, when you saw those kind 1:30:32.200 --> 1:30:35.920 of albums, those were terrible. So what you really want 1:30:36.240 --> 1:30:40.400 is the real deal. Now, Butterfield is the real deal. 1:30:42.160 --> 1:30:45.840 You know, there are white musicians who are the real deal. 1:30:45.880 --> 1:30:48.080 There are black musicians who are the real deal. And 1:30:48.640 --> 1:30:51.880 and it shouldn't. You know. It's like I get all 1:30:51.960 --> 1:30:57.200 the social you know, differences and the fight about it, 1:30:57.800 --> 1:31:01.720 but really and truly, when you get into the room 1:31:01.800 --> 1:31:04.920 and you just start really playing music. Some people play 1:31:05.000 --> 1:31:07.560 the real stuff, and when that happens, then all that 1:31:07.800 --> 1:31:11.240 other stuff just falls aside and it becomes great. And 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:14.439 in the record companies promoted all that bad stuff that 1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:17.000 was just some jive A and R guy doing trying 1:31:17.040 --> 1:31:17.639 to make money. 1:31:18.400 --> 1:31:22.680 Okay, so there's a question. Now, I believe you when 1:31:22.760 --> 1:31:25.280 you're you know, even though I wasn't there to see 1:31:25.320 --> 1:31:27.880 these bands in San Franciso or any bands that you've seen, 1:31:27.960 --> 1:31:30.479 you're like, Okay, he's good, he's not good. Their quality 1:31:30.600 --> 1:31:33.840 they're all right, but sort of the way that the 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:36.840 three of us would know, and I'm pointing up Fonte 1:31:36.960 --> 1:31:43.040 and Bill, the three of us would know equality producer 1:31:43.080 --> 1:31:46.120 all right, Dyla right like, and we respect his his 1:31:46.280 --> 1:31:49.599 drum patches, all of his you know, his whole arrangement. 1:31:49.880 --> 1:31:53.240 And then we'll hear an unnamed imitator that might be 1:31:53.360 --> 1:31:55.839 more popular, and you're like, a man, his batches are horrible. 1:31:56.400 --> 1:31:59.880 The sounds. So what The one thing I could never 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:04.400 because the thing is is that because I'm from another generation, 1:32:06.760 --> 1:32:10.200 I saw, or at least feel, the beauty and the 1:32:10.280 --> 1:32:14.400 stuff that you might not necessarily see as the real deal. 1:32:14.520 --> 1:32:20.960 But what what are the qualifications for Yeah, what like 1:32:21.280 --> 1:32:23.320 do you look for technique? Do you look for a 1:32:23.439 --> 1:32:28.760 specific robrato or tone in their guitar playing? You know, 1:32:29.479 --> 1:32:33.760 none of that space in their phrasing, you know, I mean, 1:32:34.600 --> 1:32:37.439 it's presence, it's peeling. 1:32:38.240 --> 1:32:44.240 It's right now, right right here, what you know you're 1:32:44.320 --> 1:32:47.439 doing right while you're here. And some people can be 1:32:48.439 --> 1:32:52.720 just technically totally incompetent and can be great, and other 1:32:52.800 --> 1:32:58.439 people can be just unbelievably technically competent and just. And 1:32:58.680 --> 1:33:02.360 so it's all the idea, you know, it's it's the material, 1:33:02.439 --> 1:33:03.839 in the in the presence. 1:33:04.280 --> 1:33:07.760 Well, can I ask, as a blues guitarist, what is 1:33:08.160 --> 1:33:11.360 what was your opinion of Hendricks as a blues guitarist? 1:33:11.560 --> 1:33:14.160 Great, absolutely fantastic. 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:19.400 Now as an amateur, well at okay, it's not me 1:33:19.640 --> 1:33:22.679 being an amateur. But if I'm coming from an amateur standpoint, 1:33:23.560 --> 1:33:27.040 and I have this problem with musicians today, they think, okay, 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:32.120 I gotta overplay everything to make up for a technique. 1:33:32.120 --> 1:33:34.879 And I knows that with with with blues guitar players, 1:33:34.960 --> 1:33:38.840 that the guys that are often praised are the guys 1:33:38.880 --> 1:33:42.360 that have the least amount of the least amount of 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:43.280 of of notes. 1:33:44.360 --> 1:33:48.519 So my favorite blues guitar player is Jimmy Vaughan. Okay, 1:33:48.640 --> 1:33:52.959 Jimmy Vaughan. And Eric clapped it just at his seventieth 1:33:53.040 --> 1:33:56.679 birthday party at the Garden and John Mayer was there 1:33:56.920 --> 1:33:59.640 and was there and Booted boot blas there and how 1:33:59.680 --> 1:34:02.960 do you how I was, you know, and he's got 1:34:03.040 --> 1:34:07.639 all the guitar players and Jimmy's there and everybody's coming 1:34:07.720 --> 1:34:09.519 out and they get to do their cello and they're 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:12.679 all playing like Eric with that sort of soprano woman 1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:13.360 tone that. 1:34:16.120 --> 1:34:16.400 What's it. 1:34:18.040 --> 1:34:20.880 All over the place right, you know, just fast and 1:34:21.080 --> 1:34:23.720 fantastic and like you think that was good? Dig this 1:34:23.840 --> 1:34:26.519 thing that And Jimmy came out and hit one note 1:34:26.560 --> 1:34:29.320 and kind of went splank and they kind of hit 1:34:29.360 --> 1:34:32.400 the floor and went flap and the whole building kind 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:39.200 of went oh, oh, oh, okay, you know. And that's 1:34:39.280 --> 1:34:43.559 the difference. And some people have got it. And look, 1:34:43.640 --> 1:34:46.360 there are people who make millions of dollars selling bullshit. 1:34:46.640 --> 1:34:51.320 We know that, you know, and and the public's easily fooled, 1:34:51.560 --> 1:34:54.240 you know. And they go along and their packages are 1:34:54.320 --> 1:34:57.920 sold and things are managed and weights push put behind 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:01.639 certain things, but when it gets down to the real, 1:35:02.000 --> 1:35:07.479 just unvarnished truth, then somebody who's present, who's really saying 1:35:07.640 --> 1:35:10.719 something or really playing from the heart. That's the first 1:35:10.840 --> 1:35:12.519 thing from that. 1:35:12.600 --> 1:35:16.479 Era never got. Their props are their respect that you 1:35:16.560 --> 1:35:21.400 felt deserved. God, status, My God, We're never going to 1:35:21.439 --> 1:35:23.040 get to fighting. We're not gonna get to fight. 1:35:24.640 --> 1:35:30.200 But I'm not mad is Curtis CeAl Gato and the Stilettos. 1:35:31.840 --> 1:35:33.320 I hate to say this, I've never heard. 1:35:34.800 --> 1:35:39.320 Curtis cell Gato and the Stilettos. Check them out. 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:40.519 You know. 1:35:41.000 --> 1:35:48.639 They're phenomenal blues songwriter and singer and great harmonica player 1:35:48.840 --> 1:35:52.160 and badass band leader. And he said like four or 1:35:52.240 --> 1:35:55.080 five bands. He's really funny with his bands. Every every 1:35:55.120 --> 1:35:57.240 time he has a new band, I just go, God, Curtis, 1:35:57.320 --> 1:36:00.519 where did you find that guitar player? I don't like 1:36:00.600 --> 1:36:05.519 that guy. I'm firing him. My rhythm guitar player came 1:36:05.560 --> 1:36:08.040 from Curtis's band. I was just going, when are you 1:36:08.120 --> 1:36:12.160 going to fire him? Great? Thank you? 1:36:13.040 --> 1:36:15.280 All right, I'm gonna try and skip ahead a little 1:36:15.280 --> 1:36:18.800 bit because I gotta talk about you, all right. So 1:36:19.200 --> 1:36:22.240 I want to go to Brave New World now, I've 1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:27.120 heard a lot of stories throughout the year is about 1:36:27.360 --> 1:36:32.000 especially with my Dark Hour. Can you confirm or deny 1:36:33.800 --> 1:36:37.240 that you were witnessed? Well, you guys are smiling already 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:40.320 because you know I'm gonna come with now. The rumor 1:36:40.479 --> 1:36:44.240 was that you were privy or in the presence of 1:36:44.720 --> 1:36:49.200 the actual breakup of the Beatles, that both from what 1:36:49.280 --> 1:36:51.280 I heard, it was that both of you were an 1:36:51.320 --> 1:36:53.760 olymp Olympia's studios. 1:36:53.360 --> 1:36:56.719 Or yeah, I'll tell you what, tell me what happened. 1:36:56.880 --> 1:37:00.559 So I went to London to mix Brave New World, okay, 1:37:01.120 --> 1:37:03.080 and Glenn was gonna mix it, and he was working 1:37:03.120 --> 1:37:06.120 with the Beatles at Olympic Studios, and he said, they're 1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:10.519 running a couple of days over, so just come and 1:37:10.560 --> 1:37:14.880 stay at my house and you know, uh, we'll we'll go. 1:37:15.080 --> 1:37:16.920 We'll start in a couple of days. And then he said, 1:37:17.640 --> 1:37:23.160 let's go over to George's house. To George's house. He says, yeah, 1:37:23.240 --> 1:37:26.519 George's house. So we go and go to George's house 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:29.840 and George opens the door and he's just sweet as 1:37:29.880 --> 1:37:31.880 he can be, and he says, oh, man, children of 1:37:31.920 --> 1:37:36.360 the Future, you know, Sailor. I love those two albums. 1:37:36.439 --> 1:37:43.080 I was you do twirl of you know, the prayer 1:37:43.160 --> 1:37:46.080 wheel and look at the synths, and I'm going okay, 1:37:48.640 --> 1:37:50.720 And I was just like that, you know. 1:37:50.920 --> 1:37:52.160 And so you did like the Beatles. 1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:56.120 I loved the Beatles. I thought the Beatles were just 1:37:56.280 --> 1:37:58.839 one of the greatest things that ever happened. 1:37:58.880 --> 1:38:01.720 In the talk Somebody's Lose that, I just didn't think 1:38:01.800 --> 1:38:03.799 that ye was even on your. 1:38:04.160 --> 1:38:10.400 Oh I love pop, We're just talking about one. So uh, 1:38:10.720 --> 1:38:13.639 he says, all right, we're gonna go over there doing 1:38:14.040 --> 1:38:17.240 a session tonight, so come on with me. So I 1:38:17.320 --> 1:38:21.560 go into the control room and John comes in, and 1:38:21.720 --> 1:38:26.160 Paul comes in, and Linda comes in, and Oko Yoko 1:38:26.280 --> 1:38:40.360 comes in, Tom Stop Lo and they're doing Jojo, Get Back, 1:38:40.720 --> 1:38:45.559 Get Back, Yeah. And they just walked in, sat down, 1:38:47.240 --> 1:38:50.160 sang it in twenty minutes and we're done. And then 1:38:50.400 --> 1:38:52.479 John had to leave and go do a TV show 1:38:52.640 --> 1:38:55.280 that was like the Johnny Carson Show of England, and 1:38:55.400 --> 1:38:57.439 he went and he said something that just turned the 1:38:57.479 --> 1:38:59.920 whole country over and shook the change out of it. 1:39:00.000 --> 1:39:02.280 Everybody's pockets or something, you know, And then he came 1:39:02.400 --> 1:39:08.519 back and they didn't do anymore that night, and it 1:39:08.680 --> 1:39:11.160 was like if the Beatles were in this room, it'd 1:39:11.200 --> 1:39:14.360 be like there were like four hundred tubes with cameras. 1:39:14.640 --> 1:39:16.800 These would all be cameras. I mean, that's the way 1:39:16.840 --> 1:39:21.880 it felt, and it'd be like, Okay, John's talking to Paul. Now, okay, 1:39:22.080 --> 1:39:24.320 Paul got up, he walked over toward the country. They 1:39:24.439 --> 1:39:26.760 felt like I didn't know how they did what they did, 1:39:27.040 --> 1:39:30.519 and they were very relaxed, and the whole situation real nice. 1:39:31.120 --> 1:39:36.280 So the next day they're gonna do a session and 1:39:38.040 --> 1:39:42.080 John and Ringo didn't show up. George showed up, and 1:39:42.240 --> 1:39:44.479 Paul showed up, and so we're sitting around and they 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:46.840 had set up the gear. They had the drums and 1:39:46.880 --> 1:39:50.840 the amps and stuff and glenses. Why don't you do 1:39:50.880 --> 1:39:52.360 you and Paul go out and jam a little bit? 1:39:53.479 --> 1:39:53.840 They said. 1:39:53.880 --> 1:39:59.120 Okay, So I borrowed got Lennon's epiphone and then plugged 1:39:59.160 --> 1:40:01.920 into some cool little lamp, and I'm playing this this 1:40:02.200 --> 1:40:07.800 riff and Paul's playing drums. You know, I don't think 1:40:07.880 --> 1:40:10.639 about all these things the way a fan would think 1:40:10.640 --> 1:40:11.000 about them. 1:40:11.040 --> 1:40:11.120 Man. 1:40:11.320 --> 1:40:15.519 I was pretty you know, shy meeting the Beatles. But 1:40:15.720 --> 1:40:19.360 the next thing I know, I'm doing this recording with Paul, 1:40:19.479 --> 1:40:21.640 and Paul's a great drummer. You just heard it, and 1:40:21.720 --> 1:40:24.800 I was just going, oh, this guy can and I'm going, yeah, 1:40:24.840 --> 1:40:27.840 well dig this lick. Well yeah, and we're we're in 1:40:27.920 --> 1:40:30.840 here doing this now, you know, and I'm not thinking 1:40:30.880 --> 1:40:37.000 about it. And so we start building a song. And 1:40:37.200 --> 1:40:40.360 we're building a song and Paul comes back out and 1:40:40.400 --> 1:40:43.920 plays the bass. I did the second guitar, and he says, 1:40:43.920 --> 1:40:45.479 I got a pedal steel in the other room. You 1:40:45.560 --> 1:40:47.080 want to play? I said, I've always wanted to play it. 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:51.040 Can you just plus listener to me? So put that on. 1:40:52.760 --> 1:40:56.080 And then we're doing the background vocals, doing the my 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:57.360 Dark Hour parts. 1:40:57.439 --> 1:40:57.639 Yeah. 1:40:58.479 --> 1:41:02.800 And while we're doing this, the session gets stopped and 1:41:03.040 --> 1:41:12.160 a newspaper article is brought in that Brian Epstein's mother, 1:41:12.360 --> 1:41:15.679 Brian had died. Their manager had just sold the Beatles 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:19.360 publishing to Northern Songs for I think it was four 1:41:19.439 --> 1:41:26.280 point nine pounds, and that's when they found out that 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:28.280 they're publishing had been sold. 1:41:28.120 --> 1:41:30.760 The ANTV Northern Song. So happened that moment? 1:41:31.120 --> 1:41:33.320 Yeah, I mean it came in. It was announced in 1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:36.720 an Emmy New Music Express and hey, look at this 1:41:36.880 --> 1:41:40.160 and so we're kind of reading it and I'm sitting 1:41:40.200 --> 1:41:43.920 there going, fuck, you don't own your own published, guest. 1:41:49.080 --> 1:41:53.280 And then we start talking about Alan Klein and John 1:41:53.800 --> 1:41:56.880 wants to sign with Alan Klein and Paul doesn't. And 1:41:56.880 --> 1:41:59.000 I'm going, you don't want to sign with Alan Klein, 1:41:59.120 --> 1:42:03.200 Alan Klein, all your publishers, you know, those guys are gangsters. 1:42:03.240 --> 1:42:06.519 You don't want your right, don't do that. And I'm 1:42:06.560 --> 1:42:10.599 sitting here going, I can't believe that I'm sitting here 1:42:10.680 --> 1:42:13.920 talking to like somebody that one of the few people 1:42:14.080 --> 1:42:16.400 in my life that I really really am just in 1:42:16.680 --> 1:42:21.519 awe as a talent. And I'm I'm good, I'm better 1:42:21.640 --> 1:42:24.439 off than Paul. I own my own stuff. I can't 1:42:24.520 --> 1:42:28.799 believe this, you know. And so there was poison between 1:42:29.000 --> 1:42:32.240 Linda and Yoko, and I remember the one thing that 1:42:32.400 --> 1:42:35.040 Yoko did that that really blew my mind was they 1:42:35.080 --> 1:42:37.920 were mixing get Back and she was on the phone 1:42:37.920 --> 1:42:39.760 and she said, hey, could you turn that down? I'm 1:42:39.800 --> 1:42:46.280 on the phone and I say, every time music, I 1:42:46.439 --> 1:42:48.280 was like a fly in the room, like I didn't 1:42:48.320 --> 1:42:50.760 want to move anything, you know. I was just like, well, 1:42:50.760 --> 1:42:52.360 they were doing it, and they go, what do you 1:42:52.400 --> 1:42:55.160 think about that. See, it's really great. I mean that's 1:42:55.200 --> 1:42:57.000 why I felt while they were doing it. I really 1:42:57.200 --> 1:43:00.280 wasn't relaxed yet. I hadn't played any music with them 1:43:00.400 --> 1:43:02.120 or done anything. You know. The next day was a 1:43:02.160 --> 1:43:05.599 whole different deal. And that wasn't the day they broke up. 1:43:05.680 --> 1:43:08.360 But I saw the stuff that was going on, and 1:43:09.200 --> 1:43:11.040 you know, it was just like Boz and I had 1:43:11.080 --> 1:43:12.840 this kind of thing like Boz wanted to go sign 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:19.920 a quick deal with some guy. You know. Boz was going, oh, 1:43:20.000 --> 1:43:22.200 we need this guy, you know, Lenny's going to be 1:43:22.280 --> 1:43:24.479 your manager or whatever it was. And I was going, Boz, 1:43:24.520 --> 1:43:27.280 you're nuts. We can't let you know, we have to 1:43:27.400 --> 1:43:31.080 keep control of our business. No, no, no, no, no no. 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:33.240 And there was a lot of that. You know. It's like, 1:43:33.360 --> 1:43:35.080 hey kid, I'm going to take care of you. I'm 1:43:35.080 --> 1:43:38.720 gonna you know, the whole deal, you know. And and uh, 1:43:39.479 --> 1:43:41.880 Lennon just it seemed to me like he just wanted 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:43.640 somebody to take care of this stuff and have it 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:45.960 stopped driving him nuts. And Paul was kind of going 1:43:46.080 --> 1:43:48.040 like I want to own my own publishing. I want 1:43:48.040 --> 1:43:50.360 to own my own stuff. We need a good manager. 1:43:50.680 --> 1:43:53.000 We got to be smart, This isn't going to work. 1:43:53.080 --> 1:43:57.560 And that was, you know, when it was going on. 1:43:57.680 --> 1:43:59.559 But they hadn't broken up yet, so I wasn't there 1:43:59.600 --> 1:44:03.320 then they broke up, but I saw what the key 1:44:03.400 --> 1:44:04.040 elements were. 1:44:04.080 --> 1:44:10.759 You, Steve, did you ever have a manager? 1:44:10.840 --> 1:44:11.000 Never? 1:44:11.640 --> 1:44:15.560 Yeah, I've had a couple people manage me. And my 1:44:15.680 --> 1:44:18.320 first manager got me busted when I was in London. 1:44:18.920 --> 1:44:25.080 I fired in and yeah, he had a heart shaped 1:44:25.320 --> 1:44:29.320 Valentine with a pound of weeds to him, didn't tell anybody, 1:44:29.360 --> 1:44:35.320 it didn't arrive and he left town. Yeah, it's just 1:44:35.520 --> 1:44:39.439 stuff like that, man, you know, I have never had. 1:44:40.040 --> 1:44:42.080 I got a lot of help from a guy in 1:44:42.200 --> 1:44:45.680 Chicago named Frank Freed, who was a good man who 1:44:45.800 --> 1:44:48.760 helped manage me for a while, did get part of 1:44:48.800 --> 1:44:50.920 my publishing but sold it back to me for nine 1:44:51.000 --> 1:44:53.600 thousand bucks, which was the last nine thousand bucks I 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:55.960 ever had. Yeah, I mean I had at the moment, 1:44:56.560 --> 1:45:00.719 but after that I never could find anybody was smart 1:45:00.840 --> 1:45:04.599 enough to be my manager. And by that I meant 1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:06.640 they didn't know which lawyers to use, they didn't know 1:45:06.680 --> 1:45:08.800 what kind of insurance to get. They were full of shit. 1:45:08.840 --> 1:45:10.800 They were hanging out in some office. They thought it 1:45:10.920 --> 1:45:11.519 was a party. 1:45:12.120 --> 1:45:12.599 They weren't. 1:45:13.120 --> 1:45:15.200 They didn't have the kind of connections I wanted. And 1:45:15.240 --> 1:45:17.400 I was always scared of guys like Irving A's off. 1:45:17.479 --> 1:45:20.360 You know, I was the Irving would skin me. You know, 1:45:20.439 --> 1:45:22.400 it's turned out to be one of the best guys 1:45:23.240 --> 1:45:24.400 there is for artists. 1:45:24.520 --> 1:45:27.920 But you know, during that time period, so mafia infused that, 1:45:28.120 --> 1:45:29.120 you know, you could make. 1:45:29.040 --> 1:45:34.080 Well, everything was mafia or record company. And the managers, 1:45:34.120 --> 1:45:36.000 I mean a manager was a guy who was like 1:45:36.080 --> 1:45:38.680 in Los Angeles going, hey, what what do you mean? 1:45:38.760 --> 1:45:41.600 The hotel's bad, the PA doesn't work. Listen. I got 1:45:41.720 --> 1:45:44.640 to talk to Madonna right right, you know, you know, 1:45:44.840 --> 1:45:48.080 I mean they were just playing everybody and there wasn't 1:45:48.320 --> 1:45:51.519 very much respect for artists, and I just didn't in 1:45:51.720 --> 1:45:55.240 my run, I didn't run into the right people. I 1:45:55.400 --> 1:45:58.640 never ran into somebody who was like going to be 1:45:59.240 --> 1:46:02.120 doing as much as I was doing and earning their 1:46:02.200 --> 1:46:03.080 equal share. 1:46:02.920 --> 1:46:05.639 Of what it was around at that time. 1:46:09.240 --> 1:46:11.400 It was fun and I love Shep, you know, and 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:19.280 and he's you know, you was the dealer, and you know, 1:46:19.400 --> 1:46:22.720 I didn't want a drug dealer or a kid to 1:46:22.800 --> 1:46:27.200 be my manager. I wanted I realized that I needed 1:46:27.280 --> 1:46:31.800 more than that, you know, and it's taken me a 1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:35.479 lifetime to figure out what a what it really takes, 1:46:35.760 --> 1:46:38.120 you know. I mean I've been doing this now for 1:46:38.200 --> 1:46:41.280 a long, long, long time about you know, sixty sixty 1:46:41.360 --> 1:46:45.720 five years and us it's a it's been a long 1:46:45.800 --> 1:46:47.800 life and I've I've learned a lot about business, and 1:46:47.880 --> 1:46:52.559 there are very few managers people can really actually manage 1:46:52.600 --> 1:46:55.920 you through the stages of a career, and they always 1:46:55.920 --> 1:46:58.840 want to own you forever, you know. 1:46:59.080 --> 1:47:01.160 So what do you want to give advice to anybody 1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:03.080 that's listening on what to look for as a manager, 1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:08.960 like I mean yeah, like or maybe like things for 1:47:09.080 --> 1:47:11.120 them to to you know, sign for them to. 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:15.840 Go for honestly an organization really well yeah, yeah, an 1:47:16.000 --> 1:47:20.080 organization that's honest. Honesty is the is really important. And 1:47:20.160 --> 1:47:24.479 of course knowledge too, but uh, it's really really, really 1:47:24.840 --> 1:47:30.760 a difficult thing, and you have to u decide. You know, 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:33.479 when people make these decisions, they don't even know what 1:47:33.520 --> 1:47:35.519 they're getting into. They don't even know what their lives 1:47:35.560 --> 1:47:36.040 are going to be. 1:47:36.200 --> 1:47:36.360 You know. 1:47:36.920 --> 1:47:39.240 It's the only place in the world where you know, 1:47:39.439 --> 1:47:41.759 somebody comes up to you and go when you're eighteen 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:43.840 or twenty years old, and goes, I'm going to manage you, 1:47:43.920 --> 1:47:46.880 and I'm going to own part of this for the 1:47:47.000 --> 1:47:49.080 rest of your life, and I'll probably sell it and 1:47:49.160 --> 1:47:51.200 make more money off of it than you will later. 1:47:52.200 --> 1:47:55.160 You know, that's kind of what management is really looking 1:47:55.240 --> 1:47:55.760 to do, you. 1:47:55.840 --> 1:48:03.120 Know, honest though. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, I guess we 1:48:03.160 --> 1:48:05.519 show also been at least Space Cowboy on the record. 1:48:05.760 --> 1:48:09.639 Did you plan on that being a main single? Because 1:48:09.680 --> 1:48:12.519 I always wanted to know why I was at the 1:48:12.680 --> 1:48:15.719 end of side too, because I would normally think that, Okay, 1:48:16.360 --> 1:48:18.880 your first single, your big single, should at least be 1:48:19.000 --> 1:48:20.080 in the first three songs. 1:48:20.160 --> 1:48:22.080 I hated Space Cowboy. I would want to put it 1:48:22.120 --> 1:48:22.639 on the record. 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:24.559 So was it an accidental hit? 1:48:25.720 --> 1:48:27.439 Yeah? It was one of those kind of things like 1:48:29.120 --> 1:48:35.479 I have had. I've written myself out of what I 1:48:35.600 --> 1:48:43.280 call the rock ghetto, right, you know, several times by luck. 1:48:44.000 --> 1:48:50.880 And Space Cowboy was a poorly executed, executed tune, poorly written, 1:48:51.439 --> 1:48:55.639 done in fifteen seconds or was it? But the idea 1:48:55.920 --> 1:49:00.559 was really really great and we knocked it out without 1:49:00.640 --> 1:49:02.720 any respect and we didn't take Like when I was 1:49:02.760 --> 1:49:07.400 talking to Paul about writing to McCartney, was going, man, 1:49:07.479 --> 1:49:09.200 how did you do? What? What about all that? And 1:49:09.280 --> 1:49:11.760 he said, oh, he said, God, we did those things 1:49:11.840 --> 1:49:15.439 so fast. I wish I had taken more time with 1:49:15.720 --> 1:49:17.400 some of these songs. And that was kind of like 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:20.400 which one the long Winding Road was that too short? 1:49:20.520 --> 1:49:24.040 Or which one was it that wasn't didn't meet your standards? 1:49:24.040 --> 1:49:26.559 You know, But when you look back and you see 1:49:28.200 --> 1:49:32.160 stuff like that, like you know, space Cot was just 1:49:32.240 --> 1:49:34.600 a terrible track and that's why it's stuck on the 1:49:34.760 --> 1:49:36.920 end and everybody's going, are you crazy? You kind of 1:49:36.960 --> 1:49:37.360 put it up. 1:49:37.439 --> 1:49:39.040 You're still maintainment to this day. 1:49:39.280 --> 1:49:41.519 No, it's a great song now. I completely redone it. 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:44.639 We're killing it now. 1:49:46.400 --> 1:49:48.920 When you hear the original, you're just like, man, so 1:49:49.840 --> 1:49:51.840 I get a sweat and blood. 1:49:52.560 --> 1:49:52.760 Dude. 1:49:52.840 --> 1:49:57.479 I mean, but you see there's a Simpsons episode about it, 1:49:57.600 --> 1:50:02.519 so you're at least like, Okay, maybe I was wrong 1:50:02.560 --> 1:50:02.880 about it. 1:50:03.160 --> 1:50:05.920 You know, here's the thing, like, I've never met any 1:50:06.080 --> 1:50:08.840 artist who has any concept to who they are. It 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:11.200 was so obvious Chuck Berry didn't have a clue who 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:15.000 he was. You know, didn't know who Chuck Berry was. 1:50:15.120 --> 1:50:17.920 You know, I don't know who Steve Miller is. I'm 1:50:18.120 --> 1:50:20.840 inside of Steve Miller trying to think this stuff up 1:50:20.920 --> 1:50:24.240 and do it. So when somebody comes up and goes, 1:50:24.720 --> 1:50:27.960 oh man, Steve Space Cowboy, you know the Stephen Mere 1:50:28.080 --> 1:50:30.479 goes God, that was the lamest track we ever cut. 1:50:30.600 --> 1:50:33.040 I can't believe it sounds terrible as an awful mix. 1:50:33.400 --> 1:50:36.080 Guitar solo is like, what did I have that effect 1:50:36.160 --> 1:50:36.720 on that? Get? 1:50:37.760 --> 1:50:37.800 Ugh? 1:50:38.400 --> 1:50:41.599 Ah, you know that's me. That's the way I'm looking 1:50:41.680 --> 1:50:44.160 at it. And somebody else has gone, god, Man, Space 1:50:44.240 --> 1:50:48.600 Cowboys saved my life, and you have to you know, 1:50:48.680 --> 1:50:50.719 it's really hard to just shut up and go thanks 1:50:51.720 --> 1:50:53.600 and thank you. You know, so it's really hard to 1:50:53.680 --> 1:50:56.160 know who you are to other people. I have a 1:50:56.240 --> 1:50:57.000 hard time with that. 1:50:57.200 --> 1:51:00.400 You said, only take fifteen minutes in one take. Well, 1:51:00.479 --> 1:51:03.519 in contrast, you said in an interview once that I 1:51:03.600 --> 1:51:05.320 think The Joker took three weeks to make. 1:51:05.960 --> 1:51:09.240 Oh no, that's a whole album, okay, not just no 1:51:09.720 --> 1:51:10.599 the Joker album. 1:51:10.720 --> 1:51:13.960 I thought you meant okay, I thought the song The Joker. 1:51:13.800 --> 1:51:16.200 Was really quick. That was like seventeen days for the 1:51:16.280 --> 1:51:16.720 whole thing. 1:51:17.560 --> 1:51:20.880 Oh man, Okay, So even thanks for putting that song 1:51:20.920 --> 1:51:21.639 in guitar heroll. 1:51:21.680 --> 1:51:25.640 My kids love that song, you know, God bless it. 1:51:25.920 --> 1:51:26.080 You know. 1:51:26.720 --> 1:51:29.559 I love the fact that little kids love my music 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:31.240 and they all sing it, and they all like it, 1:51:31.320 --> 1:51:32.479 and they can sing the parts. 1:51:32.600 --> 1:51:32.720 You know. 1:51:32.880 --> 1:51:34.320 That's that's as good as it good. 1:51:34.520 --> 1:51:37.240 Not that I think, well, I don't know, if you see. 1:51:37.280 --> 1:51:39.000 I like to think that everything that you've done on 1:51:39.080 --> 1:51:42.680 your records had some sort of scientific, purposeful. 1:51:42.240 --> 1:51:42.720 Meaning to it. 1:51:42.960 --> 1:51:44.880 Oh yeah, and I know you're going to be like, sure, 1:51:45.040 --> 1:51:47.040 I don't know what I was thinking. Okay. On the 1:51:47.880 --> 1:51:53.240 Joker album, right at the beginning of Come to My Kitchen, 1:51:54.400 --> 1:51:56.600 I mean, you have this monster group. It's only for 1:51:56.760 --> 1:51:59.640 like eighteen seconds, but it feels like you're going to 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:02.880 do live concert, and this monster group starts and then 1:52:03.000 --> 1:52:05.880 it just fades away, and then you go into come 1:52:05.920 --> 1:52:09.960 to my Kitchen. Why and where is that group? Because 1:52:11.000 --> 1:52:11.600 that group was. 1:52:11.640 --> 1:52:14.960 Kind of a sound check. Yeah, but and and uh 1:52:15.280 --> 1:52:19.960 and and still have all of it. And it was 1:52:20.040 --> 1:52:23.200 a great groove and and I wanted I want I 1:52:23.320 --> 1:52:27.360 wanted to you know, I wanted to create this environment, 1:52:27.439 --> 1:52:29.120 and I wanted that it was I knew it was 1:52:29.160 --> 1:52:30.920 such a great piece of music. I wanted to put 1:52:30.960 --> 1:52:33.120 it on the record, but I didn't know more what 1:52:33.240 --> 1:52:35.519 to do with it, and and so we mixed it 1:52:35.640 --> 1:52:38.200 with the Kitchen Blues, which was this live performance. 1:52:38.920 --> 1:52:42.840 And it's just like, was it us like walking into 1:52:42.880 --> 1:52:45.680 the concert hall as the It's kind of. 1:52:45.680 --> 1:52:48.280 Like to me, it's always like the spaceship lens, you know, 1:52:48.400 --> 1:52:50.680 it's like there's a lot of that. Like I was 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:56.160 always playing the echo plexo. 1:52:54.240 --> 1:52:56.439 Woo wool wall wah wah. 1:52:57.640 --> 1:53:02.000 You know, into another thing, you know, and I don't know, 1:53:02.640 --> 1:53:04.519 you know why I didn't take that and write write 1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:06.599 a great piece of music. You know. I was always 1:53:06.720 --> 1:53:10.679 very serious about making my albums and trying to say, 1:53:12.560 --> 1:53:17.679 say entertain people, say good things, kind of educate people, 1:53:17.840 --> 1:53:19.680 have it be a little bit more than maybe what 1:53:19.840 --> 1:53:23.720 they were thinking they were going to get. And so 1:53:23.840 --> 1:53:27.800 it's always, you know, serious about it. It wasn't just like, oh, 1:53:27.840 --> 1:53:29.960 I don't know what I was doing, But sometimes I 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:32.200 didn't know what I was doing. Like on Space Cowboy, 1:53:32.240 --> 1:53:35.160 I thought it was a great idea. I just you know, 1:53:36.080 --> 1:53:40.120 we made five albums I think in eighteen months, and 1:53:40.600 --> 1:53:43.360 that was the third one or something. You know. It 1:53:43.560 --> 1:53:45.480 was like we were really moving fast. 1:53:46.600 --> 1:53:50.120 When you're making these records, do you, I mean, they 1:53:50.200 --> 1:53:53.439 also have a and it's gonna be weird maybe for 1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:55.080 you to say this. I don't know if anyone's ever 1:53:55.200 --> 1:53:58.120 described it to you before, but I mean, I consider 1:53:58.200 --> 1:54:06.479 these hip hop seeds hip hop records because there's some 1:54:06.600 --> 1:54:08.960 of them are so groove based, and the way that 1:54:09.080 --> 1:54:12.360 you mix them, it's it's like R and B records, 1:54:12.439 --> 1:54:15.120 even with with like I mean, I'm not even talking 1:54:15.120 --> 1:54:16.760 about like take the Money and Run or whatever that 1:54:16.880 --> 1:54:19.880 had breakbeats at the top of them, but just in general, like, 1:54:21.240 --> 1:54:26.639 were you mindful of soul grooves and maybe that somewhere 1:54:26.680 --> 1:54:29.280 out there there's a black audience that would embrace you 1:54:29.360 --> 1:54:30.680 as well or that sort of thing. 1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:36.760 Stop we had a black audience. We had a big audience, 1:54:37.880 --> 1:54:41.879 and everywhere we played it was really a mixed audience, 1:54:42.160 --> 1:54:47.120 and we were a mixed band. And uh so, you know, 1:54:47.320 --> 1:54:50.640 Gerald Johnson is one of the greatest bass players from 1:54:50.720 --> 1:54:56.040 the whole fucking planet. You know, he's great, and uh 1:54:57.160 --> 1:55:03.600 we had you know, before the sheds, it was all integrated. 1:55:04.760 --> 1:55:07.360 And as soon as the sheds were built and they 1:55:07.440 --> 1:55:10.640 moved out to the suburbs, like all of a sudden, 1:55:10.640 --> 1:55:13.120 I was just playing to an all white kind of. 1:55:14.760 --> 1:55:17.440 Like man music. Well, see, our shed is actually in 1:55:17.520 --> 1:55:20.680 the inner city. Actually our sids in the hoods Center 1:55:22.560 --> 1:55:25.720 and Philly Man Music Center is right in the hood. Yeah, 1:55:25.840 --> 1:55:27.000 and the Plateau. 1:55:27.640 --> 1:55:30.280 Played one of the you know, I played there many 1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.160 times and had one of the most corrupt gigs of 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:34.280 my life was done there. 1:55:36.840 --> 1:55:39.680 Music Center was the name Larry Maggott brought into play. 1:55:39.960 --> 1:55:46.120 Yes, it was okay, Larry Megan stories. 1:55:47.440 --> 1:55:48.880 He's the man my dad, so go ahead. 1:55:48.960 --> 1:55:53.480 So so oh that explains everything. I was reading your book. 1:55:53.560 --> 1:55:56.760 So I was like, yeah, so all right. So Larry Maggott, 1:55:56.880 --> 1:56:00.400 like a friend of mine who had started off as 1:56:00.400 --> 1:56:04.480 an equipment manager for Santana Herbie Herbert, put together created 1:56:04.560 --> 1:56:06.840 and thought up the band Journey. He thought up the 1:56:06.920 --> 1:56:09.240 poster art, he thought up the t shirt business. He's 1:56:09.240 --> 1:56:11.560 the guy who created the t shirt business now. And 1:56:11.720 --> 1:56:13.600 he picked the people in Journey and he said we're 1:56:13.600 --> 1:56:15.040 gonna have a rock pan and we're gonna do this, 1:56:15.600 --> 1:56:23.840 and he was unbelievably successful. And he told me the 1:56:23.880 --> 1:56:26.920 story about Larry. So they played at Philly at the 1:56:27.280 --> 1:56:32.080 Football Stadium stadium and got paid on a sold out 1:56:32.160 --> 1:56:35.160 show fifty six thousand people or something like that. A 1:56:35.240 --> 1:56:37.400 couple of weeks later, to get a satellite photo from 1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:39.960 a friend of theirs in the Air Force. He goes, congratulations, 1:56:40.360 --> 1:56:43.840 you guys had seventy eight, two hundred and forty two 1:56:43.880 --> 1:56:47.040 people at your show. And he said, can you do 1:56:47.240 --> 1:56:49.160 that from a satellite? He said, oh yeah, right to 1:56:49.280 --> 1:56:53.960 the you know there it is. So there's a huge 1:56:54.040 --> 1:56:57.040 lawsuit body against Larry Maggott who was like skimming, like 1:56:57.200 --> 1:57:01.480 by twenty five thousand people. Everything was a skim, right, 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:06.000 So stealing skimming, stealing, skimming off everybody. So Paul McCartney's 1:57:06.000 --> 1:57:09.240 seeing them, grateful dead, sewing them, journey seeing them. Somebody 1:57:09.280 --> 1:57:13.800 else is seeing them. Somebody Yeah, they see him. A 1:57:13.920 --> 1:57:16.680 vice president from the company has to go to jail 1:57:16.760 --> 1:57:19.000 for eighteen months. And then poll started as an article 1:57:19.160 --> 1:57:21.360 saying so Larry house business ben He says, well, ticket 1:57:21.440 --> 1:57:25.240 sales A is great. Has affect your ticket sales at all? 1:57:26.440 --> 1:57:29.800 So that's a So I'm playing there and I go 1:57:29.960 --> 1:57:34.200 do this. I get there and the building manager is 1:57:34.400 --> 1:57:39.200 not there. The fire commissioner guy is like on vacation, 1:57:39.920 --> 1:57:43.600 and those three hundred pounds Union guys and Philly who 1:57:43.640 --> 1:57:47.560 are all like, hey, yeah, you know, I mean I 1:57:47.680 --> 1:57:51.840 got into it with those guys, Yeah I did. I 1:57:51.920 --> 1:57:53.840 went in. They were all eating chicken, and I said, 1:57:53.880 --> 1:57:57.280 look at you guys. While I was talking, I was going, 1:57:57.440 --> 1:58:00.520 what am I doing? They were like the you know, 1:58:00.600 --> 1:58:03.600 eating half chickens, and nothing was set up, and they 1:58:03.640 --> 1:58:06.560 were trying to charge us an extra ten thousand dollars 1:58:06.640 --> 1:58:09.560 to set up our second laser screen, and you know, 1:58:09.640 --> 1:58:12.400 they were just jerking us around everything. And I go 1:58:12.520 --> 1:58:16.160 out and I look at outside and I go, holy shit, 1:58:16.680 --> 1:58:18.720 this place is so over sold. This is the most 1:58:18.800 --> 1:58:21.360 dangerous house I've ever been in my life. There was 1:58:21.520 --> 1:58:25.320 not space for one more person there was there were 1:58:25.360 --> 1:58:29.760 no aisles, there were nothing, and I just had to like, 1:58:30.800 --> 1:58:33.560 you know, the show was like very delicate. I didn't 1:58:33.600 --> 1:58:36.880 want to get anybody too excited or anything. And then 1:58:37.240 --> 1:58:40.280 the rear fence was broken down and three thousand people 1:58:40.600 --> 1:58:44.120 more came in. And then later we found out that 1:58:44.240 --> 1:58:48.320 the Union had a van that they were selling cocaine 1:58:48.520 --> 1:58:53.840 in the the union. The Union guys at work, they 1:58:53.880 --> 1:58:56.160 were selling coke in the audience, and they were reselling 1:58:56.200 --> 1:59:03.480 the tickets just when you're thinking there, I had a seizure, 1:59:03.640 --> 1:59:06.160 you know. And then and then you know, we get 1:59:06.240 --> 1:59:08.320 in the cars and that's the end of the East 1:59:08.360 --> 1:59:11.560 Coast and we're going to Denver, and you know, three 1:59:11.640 --> 1:59:14.400 days later we're playing it. We fly, the stuff's all 1:59:14.640 --> 1:59:17.000 into it. We get to Denver and we get out 1:59:17.080 --> 1:59:19.400 the Red Rocks and the guys go, what did you 1:59:19.480 --> 1:59:22.640 guys do in Philly? Man? You know, because the union 1:59:22.720 --> 1:59:24.760 had called them. You know, I thought our tires were 1:59:24.800 --> 1:59:27.800 going to be slashed, our equipment stolen, but that that 1:59:28.000 --> 1:59:32.240 was always Philly. You know, it was a very So 1:59:32.560 --> 1:59:35.400 you know, when when people asked me about business and 1:59:35.480 --> 1:59:38.960 you asked me about management, I've been dealing all my 1:59:39.120 --> 1:59:47.840 life with mafia, UH, illegal police, UH, corrupt business people, 1:59:49.080 --> 1:59:55.080 dishonest record companies. The union designed to protect me, never 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:59.440 protected any of my interests and abused me. And uh, 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:02.840 you know, the ask caps of the world have you know, 2:00:02.880 --> 2:00:05.320 I'm always in the wrong program. When I when I 2:00:05.600 --> 2:00:07.600 got my hit boy too bad, you know, you would 2:00:07.640 --> 2:00:11.680 have made more shell game, you know, all of that 2:00:11.840 --> 2:00:15.800 kind of stuff. So my whole business experience has been 2:00:16.360 --> 2:00:18.840 dealing with people who are dishonest or trying to steal 2:00:18.960 --> 2:00:21.000 from me and trying to do me harm. 2:00:21.240 --> 2:00:21.440 You know. 2:00:21.600 --> 2:00:25.000 So that's that's what That's the kind of manager you 2:00:25.080 --> 2:00:27.160 need is you need the space cowboy man, you need 2:00:27.240 --> 2:00:28.440 the champion of justice. 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:33.240 Sounds like we need to Stephen Miller book though publisher, 2:00:33.480 --> 2:00:34.040 you know what I mean? 2:00:34.560 --> 2:00:37.640 I think I think you know, the book's been written. 2:00:37.680 --> 2:00:39.880 You know what the problem I found was what people 2:00:39.920 --> 2:00:43.600 would say, you know, like, well, that's an acceptable contract 2:00:43.640 --> 2:00:46.440 that they would have, you know, fifty percent of your publishing. 2:00:46.600 --> 2:00:50.600 That's that's the industry standard. And I just from my 2:00:50.800 --> 2:00:53.560 twelve year old days of getting paid for what I 2:00:53.800 --> 2:00:56.240 did and what I thought was mine, I would just say, 2:00:56.280 --> 2:00:56.800 well no. 2:00:57.800 --> 2:00:59.960 And that's still you think that's realistic in twenty seve 2:01:00.000 --> 2:01:03.240 seen you think that, you know, some courage field artists 2:01:03.280 --> 2:01:05.640 can go into office and be like I want it all. 2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:09.480 Yeah, But it's so different now because you have to 2:01:09.680 --> 2:01:12.400 here's here's the thing, you know, like here, here's the thing. 2:01:13.080 --> 2:01:16.840 You can only do that when the situation's right. So 2:01:17.160 --> 2:01:19.720 when I told you I had a feeding frenzy, I 2:01:19.760 --> 2:01:23.560 thought you understood what a feeding frenzy is. Feeding frenzies, 2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:25.360 you know, when I when I told you that in 2:01:25.520 --> 2:01:29.360 nineteen sixty six there was this giant awakening in San Francisco. 2:01:29.640 --> 2:01:31.920 I'm not talking about some little scene in the club. 2:01:32.240 --> 2:01:33.560 I'm talking about. 2:01:33.680 --> 2:01:34.800 The world movement. 2:01:35.000 --> 2:01:39.200 A thing popped out. You know, it was like whoa, whoa, 2:01:39.520 --> 2:01:41.800 there's a whole different way this can all work. So 2:01:42.080 --> 2:01:45.720 these things are like you know, situations timing all that 2:01:45.840 --> 2:01:46.640 kind of stuff. 2:01:46.520 --> 2:01:48.360 Or unicorn in a way with the kids call like 2:01:48.440 --> 2:01:49.360 to call it these days. 2:01:49.480 --> 2:01:51.880 Well, you know, if you want to get, if you 2:01:52.000 --> 2:01:55.520 want it so bad, you'll do anything that's man listen, 2:01:55.920 --> 2:01:59.120 then then then you know, I can get all your 2:01:59.160 --> 2:02:02.000 publishing and your shoes and your watch and your ring 2:02:02.160 --> 2:02:05.360 and your wallet. You know, in thirty minutes. That's now 2:02:05.440 --> 2:02:10.440 with three sixties, yeah, and all of that because they 2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:12.000 know it and the kids don't know it. And you know, 2:02:12.120 --> 2:02:14.120 kids always want to you know, you wost want to 2:02:14.160 --> 2:02:16.520 do it, but you have to say no. 2:02:16.880 --> 2:02:19.200 You have to learn the leverage is in your favor 2:02:19.360 --> 2:02:20.879 if you if you have even. 2:02:21.120 --> 2:02:23.600 If it isn't, you have to say no for a while. 2:02:23.680 --> 2:02:27.920 Do you know, Like I never did anything I didn't 2:02:27.960 --> 2:02:31.080 want to do, and I had people trying to get 2:02:31.120 --> 2:02:33.760 me to do stuff. You know, hey, man, go do 2:02:33.880 --> 2:02:35.840 this thing for this DJ for free, and he'll do 2:02:35.920 --> 2:02:38.040 that and go, fuck you man. You know there's going 2:02:38.120 --> 2:02:40.560 to be four thousand people there. Sure you want me 2:02:40.680 --> 2:02:43.280 to come? I always had that attitude. You know that 2:02:43.440 --> 2:02:45.440 you got to pay me if you want me to 2:02:45.800 --> 2:02:47.800 put the amp in the car and drive there and 2:02:47.920 --> 2:02:50.120 set it up and plug it in. Man, It's it's work. 2:02:50.200 --> 2:02:51.320 It's work, Okay. 2:02:51.360 --> 2:02:56.120 So I have a question in in retrospect, was there 2:02:56.760 --> 2:03:02.520 one historical event or one color collaboration or even some 2:03:02.600 --> 2:03:06.680 of his minuscule as a soundtrack song, one slight misstep 2:03:06.760 --> 2:03:09.280 that you made that you regret not doing, Like did 2:03:09.320 --> 2:03:12.160 you get an offer for Woodstock but you're like they 2:03:12.160 --> 2:03:13.000 ain't paying for me gas? 2:03:13.120 --> 2:03:19.880 Nope or wood Stock. I was calling, uh Frank Freed 2:03:19.920 --> 2:03:22.240 in Chicago. The guy was helping me out there. Frank, 2:03:22.280 --> 2:03:24.400 we got to play Woodsuck. We're gonna Yeah, you don't 2:03:24.400 --> 2:03:25.960 want to play there. It's gonna be many, it's gonna 2:03:25.960 --> 2:03:28.240 be in the say and it's already booked, you know what, Frank, 2:03:28.280 --> 2:03:30.480 we gotta come on, Ah, you don't want to you 2:03:30.520 --> 2:03:36.720 know that was one uh Monterey Pop Festival was you know, 2:03:36.800 --> 2:03:39.040 we were talking about how the San Francisco guys really 2:03:39.120 --> 2:03:42.520 considered the La guys gangsters and criminals, which they were, 2:03:43.280 --> 2:03:46.080 and we were right to have that. But the other 2:03:46.200 --> 2:03:48.320 day I was reading about the Monterey Pop Festival and 2:03:48.440 --> 2:03:51.680 somebody was talking about how my manager, in typical San 2:03:51.760 --> 2:03:55.080 Francisco fashion talked my talked us out of being in 2:03:55.200 --> 2:03:57.200 the film. You know, it's like, we're not gonna let 2:03:57.200 --> 2:03:58.800 you guys film us. We're not gonna do that. 2:03:59.040 --> 2:04:00.520 You did it and you're not own film. 2:04:00.760 --> 2:04:03.400 Yeah right, no, wait, but Jannis is saying, your wife 2:04:03.480 --> 2:04:05.880 is saying, some Jess, there we go. 2:04:06.240 --> 2:04:10.800 Jennis just found twelve minutes of us that that Penny 2:04:10.840 --> 2:04:16.320 Baker himself shot anyway, in spite of which shows you right, absolutely, 2:04:16.960 --> 2:04:22.160 yeah yeah. And you know Bill Graham was the same way. 2:04:22.160 --> 2:04:25.960 I mean, he illegally videotaped and recorded every show I 2:04:26.040 --> 2:04:26.680 ever did. There. 2:04:27.000 --> 2:04:28.840 Oh, they're putting it out. Oh you said she said that. 2:04:28.960 --> 2:04:30.000 Janna said they're putting it out. 2:04:30.120 --> 2:04:32.280 Oh yeah, well we've called them up and said, hey, 2:04:32.480 --> 2:04:39.000 you remember what we said. We didn't mean that sixty 2:04:39.200 --> 2:04:40.520 seven or whatever was. 2:04:40.560 --> 2:04:49.480 Come on, you know, I can't believe this, but we're 2:04:49.480 --> 2:04:51.560 finally getting to nineteen seventy six. I know you got 2:04:52.120 --> 2:04:54.480 you get to Fly like an Eagle already. I promise 2:04:54.520 --> 2:04:59.360 you I'll end it right now. All right, I just 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:02.000 had a get to Fly like wait, I'm here now 2:05:02.120 --> 2:05:04.000 now I'm so overwhelmed, I don't know what to ask 2:05:04.080 --> 2:05:04.360 about it. 2:05:04.880 --> 2:05:09.440 Fly Like an Eagle was a song that was developed 2:05:09.800 --> 2:05:14.840 over two three years. And our gigs used to be 2:05:15.000 --> 2:05:17.800 we'd like, you know, go come to Detroit and play 2:05:17.840 --> 2:05:19.920 the Grandy ball Room, or be in Boston at the 2:05:20.120 --> 2:05:23.120 Tea Party year be you know, whoever it was. And 2:05:24.640 --> 2:05:26.600 a lot of what we did was like we'd play 2:05:26.600 --> 2:05:29.040 a couple hours, two three hours, and we'd have a 2:05:29.120 --> 2:05:32.880 mirror ball and you know, mirror ball is a great thing, 2:05:33.080 --> 2:05:35.000 and you know, it's like a dark room. It wasn't 2:05:35.080 --> 2:05:37.440 like a big show spotlights and all that, and there'd 2:05:37.480 --> 2:05:39.960 be some you know, kind of oily kind of stuff 2:05:40.000 --> 2:05:41.800 going on behind you. The mirror ball would be on, 2:05:42.520 --> 2:05:44.920 everything would be kind of cool and we'd just start jamming. 2:05:45.640 --> 2:05:47.600 And so Fly Like an Eagle was a jam and 2:05:47.720 --> 2:05:51.680 it was a long piece. Back in those days, a 2:05:51.840 --> 2:05:53.640 show wasn't something where you had to come out and 2:05:53.760 --> 2:05:56.880 do like, you know, nine songs and forty five minutes 2:05:56.880 --> 2:05:59.000 like bang bang bang bang bang bang, thank you very much. 2:05:59.680 --> 2:06:02.760 You know, it was like a whole evening and it 2:06:02.840 --> 2:06:04.880 was kind of like we're just tipping the gang and 2:06:05.080 --> 2:06:09.040 everybody's going to relax. You know, it's like music tonight. 2:06:09.680 --> 2:06:13.960 And so that song was developed started like that and 2:06:15.440 --> 2:06:18.760 that riff. You know, my dark hour didn't feel like 2:06:19.240 --> 2:06:22.320 you know, I gave him the song before it was 2:06:22.360 --> 2:06:24.640 really finished and we did it in seven hours and 2:06:24.680 --> 2:06:27.480 it was done, and I wasn't done with that that 2:06:27.680 --> 2:06:28.680 idea at all. 2:06:28.880 --> 2:06:31.480 So yeah, come back to it because there was a 2:06:31.520 --> 2:06:36.480 slow I believe on Midnight Special in seventy three you 2:06:36.560 --> 2:06:40.040 did a version of Flat like Eagle. That's half the halftime, 2:06:40.400 --> 2:06:44.040 the slower version of it. So it's always been your repertoire. Yeah, 2:06:44.280 --> 2:06:48.600 like for me personally, like and this is this is 2:06:49.280 --> 2:06:51.240 the whole reason why you're here? Is the next question? 2:06:52.400 --> 2:06:55.680 I wait, you gotta understand, all right. 2:06:55.800 --> 2:06:57.360 So my. 2:06:59.560 --> 2:07:03.040 My my first day of school back in seventy six, 2:07:04.600 --> 2:07:09.680 which is weird because because my dad had both silt 2:07:09.720 --> 2:07:13.600 degrees and fly like an Eagle eight track in the car, 2:07:13.640 --> 2:07:16.320 it was far far drive from school. So like my 2:07:16.560 --> 2:07:20.880 memory of hearing fly like an Eagles on my dad's 2:07:20.960 --> 2:07:24.800 a track player in the car, and also with Bosqua 2:07:24.800 --> 2:07:26.960 as record, which you know, it's kind of weird that 2:07:27.000 --> 2:07:29.000 you two are paired together and we didn't know that 2:07:29.120 --> 2:07:33.120 back then. But you know here in the space intro, 2:07:34.400 --> 2:07:38.080 which Steve will probably want to kill me, because any 2:07:39.080 --> 2:07:43.960 space intro is just my go to reference point for 2:07:44.240 --> 2:07:47.600 anything that in my head that's like slow motion or 2:07:47.760 --> 2:07:51.680 needs atmosphere and whatever like, that's my my go to 2:07:51.880 --> 2:07:54.960 reference for any keyboard play we ever had, Steve. 2:07:55.880 --> 2:07:58.160 So I was listening to one of your records today 2:07:58.200 --> 2:08:03.960 before I came over. I think I understood that, Well, 2:08:04.080 --> 2:08:06.520 it's kind of like we could do. This is the 2:08:06.600 --> 2:08:07.560 same stuff we're. 2:08:07.520 --> 2:08:10.520 Just yeah, just me, when I was a kid, it 2:08:10.600 --> 2:08:11.800 made me feel like I could fly. 2:08:12.480 --> 2:08:21.480 Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to. That's that's great because that's 2:08:21.520 --> 2:08:23.680 exactly what the way it made me feel when I 2:08:23.960 --> 2:08:26.040 was playing it and discovering it and doing it, and 2:08:26.160 --> 2:08:31.240 it was so magical to do that, you know, And 2:08:33.040 --> 2:08:37.680 I I I had this this thought, you know when 2:08:38.440 --> 2:08:41.600 before I came over today, because I was listening to 2:08:41.680 --> 2:08:47.040 some things and I kind of went, yeah, this is 2:08:47.200 --> 2:08:49.480 this is like the same kind of work like this 2:08:49.720 --> 2:08:53.000 is these are these people, and I mean this is 2:08:53.160 --> 2:08:55.840 like what I'm doing, This is where where I am 2:08:56.800 --> 2:08:59.040 when I'm in the studio, when I'm laying back, and 2:08:59.160 --> 2:09:02.720 I kept thinking like of Macho City, Dude. 2:09:02.600 --> 2:09:05.560 Well, I want to talk about Manso City because freaking 2:09:05.760 --> 2:09:10.400 hip hop. Like when when you're creating Mancho City and 2:09:11.000 --> 2:09:13.400 the political rap that comes with it, it's like a 2:09:13.520 --> 2:09:18.000 year before the message. What what were you thinking? 2:09:18.080 --> 2:09:18.480 Like were you. 2:09:20.040 --> 2:09:23.200 As far as like, okay, well, hip hop is is? 2:09:23.600 --> 2:09:25.040 I was just going to be a thing because hip 2:09:25.320 --> 2:09:26.960 hip hop really wasn't a thing. 2:09:27.720 --> 2:09:30.040 Here's what you can't understand. I was thinking about hip 2:09:30.040 --> 2:09:32.720 hop at all. I was just doing something. 2:09:34.240 --> 2:09:36.600 So you didn't hear any Grandmaster Flash records like oh 2:09:36.680 --> 2:09:40.880 we could know. I was believe you too, because you know, 2:09:41.120 --> 2:09:48.280 I was just doing what I do and that's it 2:09:48.480 --> 2:09:50.400 wasn't new wave. It has it's sort of a new 2:09:51.320 --> 2:09:55.080 like when new wave came. Like were you aborted? Because 2:09:55.160 --> 2:09:59.160 I felt like if you didn't do Macho City, probably 2:09:59.240 --> 2:10:03.200 talking heads cause have attempted to do it. Who are 2:10:03.200 --> 2:10:04.360 your peers in that moment that. 2:10:04.760 --> 2:10:07.720 I didn't have any peers because what what? What had 2:10:07.880 --> 2:10:17.400 happened was I had uh been sort of, I had. 2:10:17.960 --> 2:10:20.960 I had done Abercadabra, I'd played these shows, I'd been 2:10:21.000 --> 2:10:27.280 playing football stadiums. American Record Company said, Abricadabra sucks, We're 2:10:27.320 --> 2:10:30.240 not going to do anything with it, and sorry, and 2:10:30.360 --> 2:10:33.080 I said, okay, well, I'm canceling my United States tour. 2:10:33.120 --> 2:10:35.000 I'm going to Europe then, because I had a different 2:10:35.080 --> 2:10:38.400 deal with Phonogram from Capital. I went to Europe, and 2:10:38.400 --> 2:10:41.760 it was number one all over Europe. In the United States, 2:10:41.840 --> 2:10:48.640 it was in Europe, but not it was phone so 2:10:49.240 --> 2:10:54.120 so it was number one everywhere. And and I came back. 2:10:54.200 --> 2:10:57.520 I did a whole big tour of Europe and came 2:10:57.600 --> 2:11:00.240 back to the States, and now it was like coming 2:11:00.360 --> 2:11:02.400 up the charts, and then it finally went to number one. 2:11:03.160 --> 2:11:06.920 And I got back and the sheds had just opened. 2:11:07.000 --> 2:11:11.200 It's nineteen eighty three, I think, and I had booked 2:11:11.240 --> 2:11:15.280 eleven of them, and I'd been playing football stadiums. I 2:11:15.400 --> 2:11:17.240 got back at nineteen eighty three and there were like 2:11:17.320 --> 2:11:20.320 three thousand people in each at each gig, and it 2:11:20.400 --> 2:11:22.360 was a whole new place and a whole new thing, 2:11:23.320 --> 2:11:26.400 and I was just kind of going, like God, my 2:11:26.520 --> 2:11:28.600 business is it? Okay, Now I'm at the end, man, 2:11:28.600 --> 2:11:31.440 all right. I sold them, you know, twenty million albums, 2:11:31.520 --> 2:11:33.920 and I played football stadiums and I did all this stuff. 2:11:34.360 --> 2:11:36.839 But I ain't going to come back and playing places 2:11:36.920 --> 2:11:40.320 that are like a quarter full and so and at 2:11:40.360 --> 2:11:44.360 the same time, all the press stuff like I think 2:11:44.440 --> 2:11:48.200 at the same time, I think Macho City in the 2:11:48.440 --> 2:11:51.880 La Times called it unmitigated slop and said that the 2:11:52.360 --> 2:11:55.520 Capitol Records should be embarrassed for releasing my work as 2:11:55.520 --> 2:11:58.560 an artist. And then they ran it again at New 2:11:58.640 --> 2:12:01.760 Year's you know, like that. It was. It really hurt. 2:12:01.840 --> 2:12:05.520 So so I just kind of went like, okay, that's it. 2:12:05.920 --> 2:12:09.240 I'm I'm out of here. So I didn't tour for 2:12:10.360 --> 2:12:10.960 six years. 2:12:11.840 --> 2:12:13.000 Wait a minute, you let that. 2:12:14.560 --> 2:12:19.200 Hamper you No, no, yeah, that was the final straw. 2:12:19.320 --> 2:12:21.600 But I had I had just been on the road 2:12:21.760 --> 2:12:25.920 from nineteen sixty five nineteen eighty three, and I just 2:12:26.920 --> 2:12:30.240 just I mean, I was really tired of the whole thing. 2:12:30.800 --> 2:12:32.920 And I didn't have any a manager, and I didn't 2:12:33.000 --> 2:12:37.400 have any plan. I just you know, whatever happened happened, 2:12:37.400 --> 2:12:40.160 and I worked when I worked it to my advantage 2:12:40.200 --> 2:12:42.960 as much as I could, and I was tired. I 2:12:43.080 --> 2:12:43.680 needed a break. 2:12:43.800 --> 2:12:47.560 So were you wear that like amazing mojo not mojojo? 2:12:47.720 --> 2:12:47.880 Yeah? 2:12:47.920 --> 2:12:50.760 It let you like they were playing that on black 2:12:50.880 --> 2:12:55.200 radio up at Detroit, like in heavy rotation, like that 2:12:55.520 --> 2:12:57.760 song had legs on it. 2:12:58.080 --> 2:13:03.200 No see, you know, like come no, I was living 2:13:03.240 --> 2:13:04.360 in a farm in Oregon. 2:13:07.040 --> 2:13:07.840 That's a good answer. 2:13:08.800 --> 2:13:13.240 It was good. And you know, that's that's the world 2:13:13.360 --> 2:13:16.320 I want to live in, where everybody where all cultures 2:13:16.360 --> 2:13:19.440 are intertwined, and people are all listening to each other, 2:13:19.480 --> 2:13:22.520 and the audience is diverse, and the music is diverse, 2:13:22.600 --> 2:13:25.000 and you know, in an odd sense, that's kind of 2:13:25.040 --> 2:13:28.600 what was cool about San Francisco is that it was diverse. 2:13:28.680 --> 2:13:30.800 You know, on Monday night, it might be Johnny Cash, 2:13:30.840 --> 2:13:33.560 and on Tuesday night it might be the Modern Jazz Quartet, 2:13:33.800 --> 2:13:37.240 And on Wednesday night it'd be you know, Quicksilver Messenger Service, 2:13:37.320 --> 2:13:40.040 and on Thursday night it'd be Muddy Waters, you know, 2:13:40.200 --> 2:13:44.080 and it was very diverse. Or Roland Kirk or you know, 2:13:44.360 --> 2:13:47.120 Charles Lloyd or a lot of people were just coming 2:13:47.200 --> 2:13:50.920 through all the time. That's the world I want to 2:13:51.400 --> 2:13:55.280 live in and play in and breed in. And you know, 2:13:55.680 --> 2:13:58.320 be in. That's that's the way I feel. 2:13:58.400 --> 2:14:00.440 Okay. You know, like when someone tells you joke and 2:14:00.520 --> 2:14:04.280 then you get the punchline like five years later. Yeah, okay, 2:14:04.400 --> 2:14:07.440 that just happened to me. So I hate going back 2:14:07.480 --> 2:14:10.800 to the filmore. But you said, Rashaan Rolling Kirk. 2:14:10.760 --> 2:14:13.840 Yeah, yeah, okay, Now we used to jam all the time. 2:14:14.240 --> 2:14:17.160 This is what I gotta know. With these jazz pairings 2:14:18.080 --> 2:14:22.280 come into the film, Moore, were they truly open or 2:14:22.400 --> 2:14:25.160 did it just look good on the poster? Like looking 2:14:25.240 --> 2:14:29.120 on the poster, it's like, you know, air clapped in 2:14:29.240 --> 2:14:36.000 cream and I'm using hypothetical John Coltran in essence, did 2:14:36.040 --> 2:14:38.280 it really work that night? Or were there people that 2:14:38.360 --> 2:14:40.000 were just like, all right, let me know when the 2:14:40.040 --> 2:14:42.560 sunshine of your love guy comes home outside from smoke? 2:14:42.920 --> 2:14:42.960 No? 2:14:43.080 --> 2:14:46.160 No, no, it was like, were they truly open to. 2:14:46.880 --> 2:14:52.879 You don't understand, man. It was an The whole building 2:14:53.080 --> 2:14:55.720 was different. It wasn't like when you go to work 2:14:55.760 --> 2:14:58.200 and tickets are sold and managers are there and pop 2:14:58.280 --> 2:15:01.320 stars are there and big video screens are on and 2:15:01.520 --> 2:15:04.080 people are in control and people are being wound up 2:15:04.120 --> 2:15:07.440 to be hysterical and ship like that. That's Rolling Stones 2:15:07.480 --> 2:15:11.920 English Ship. This was like warm and real and great. 2:15:11.960 --> 2:15:14.440 I used to go see Rolan Kirk on Sunday afternoon. 2:15:14.520 --> 2:15:17.000 He'd play a set Sunday afternoon and play another set 2:15:17.080 --> 2:15:21.640 Sunday night, or he was whatever he and you know 2:15:21.720 --> 2:15:33.840 who you remind me of. I don't say it the drummer, No, no, no, Buddy, Buddy. 2:15:34.160 --> 2:15:36.440 I know Buddy really, really, really well. I was there 2:15:36.680 --> 2:15:39.040 the day Buddy came to town. He came to my house. 2:15:39.080 --> 2:15:41.440 I definitely wanted to steal him from Mike Bloomfield right 2:15:41.440 --> 2:15:43.160 away and put a band together with him, because he 2:15:43.320 --> 2:15:45.600 was really cool. He went on a long pad trip 2:15:45.680 --> 2:15:47.760 and had you know, a lot of bad things happened 2:15:47.760 --> 2:15:51.280 to him. But I don't know if you know much 2:15:51.280 --> 2:16:01.040 about Clift Engineer. It's Cajun blues, accordion blues. And the 2:16:01.160 --> 2:16:03.600 drummer sits in the middle of the stage with his 2:16:03.760 --> 2:16:05.880 drums like at this level, and it's like he's got 2:16:05.920 --> 2:16:11.520 a bat and he's just going and things are happening 2:16:11.600 --> 2:16:13.640 in the little bass player and the guitar player doing 2:16:13.680 --> 2:16:15.760 a little steps and bomping up to the side and 2:16:15.880 --> 2:16:18.000 off to the side, and Clifton sineers in the middle 2:16:18.040 --> 2:16:20.840 and there's a guy on his knees playing his chest, 2:16:20.960 --> 2:16:24.640 you know, playing the thing, and some of the greatest 2:16:24.760 --> 2:16:29.040 music man funky funky funky stuff. That stuff was going 2:16:29.080 --> 2:16:33.480 on all the time, and everybody was high the lights 2:16:33.600 --> 2:16:37.080 the whole thing. It was like not like show business. 2:16:37.200 --> 2:16:39.680 It was a different It was like church, man, a 2:16:39.840 --> 2:16:44.240 musical church is what it ended up being. That was 2:16:44.320 --> 2:16:48.400 being manipulated by certain groups and certain people. But in 2:16:48.560 --> 2:16:51.560 spite of the Bill Graham's of the world, you know, 2:16:51.800 --> 2:16:54.680 because while all this was going on, Bill Graham was 2:16:54.720 --> 2:16:58.440 stealing from everybody, you know, stealing from the group, stealing 2:16:58.480 --> 2:17:01.119 from the people, over selling the stuff, doing lying about 2:17:01.160 --> 2:17:05.640 the books, bullshitting everybody, you know. But in spite of 2:17:05.720 --> 2:17:11.160 all of that, there was this really great heart and 2:17:11.280 --> 2:17:13.200 soul changing musical scene going on. 2:17:14.320 --> 2:17:17.320 So with the song, with the song the Joker, you 2:17:17.400 --> 2:17:21.680 had this global hit basically right, and that was humongo humongous. 2:17:22.160 --> 2:17:23.240 So and then. 2:17:24.879 --> 2:17:27.520 Did you feel did something click at that point where 2:17:27.560 --> 2:17:31.040 you said, Okay, now I understand what's going to truly 2:17:31.560 --> 2:17:33.960 help me translate to the pop charts and have mega 2:17:34.040 --> 2:17:38.400 hits and then sort of start pumping out like once 2:17:38.480 --> 2:17:40.760 you had just said okay, wow, I found a unique 2:17:40.800 --> 2:17:41.200 sound here. 2:17:41.400 --> 2:17:44.240 It was. It was different than that. When I left down. 2:17:45.200 --> 2:17:49.480 The Joker was my last album at Capitol Records. Nobody 2:17:49.600 --> 2:17:52.600 was talking to me about renewing my contract. It was 2:17:52.680 --> 2:17:56.160 the first album where I kicked all the producers and everybody. 2:17:56.200 --> 2:17:59.400 I was the first record I produced myself with just 2:17:59.520 --> 2:18:02.440 by my So The Joker was yeah. And I brought 2:18:02.520 --> 2:18:04.040 my band in for two days and cut all the 2:18:04.120 --> 2:18:06.760 tracks and sent them home and then spent fifteen days 2:18:06.879 --> 2:18:09.360 doing the vocal overdubs and all this stuff and mixing 2:18:09.400 --> 2:18:11.560 it and putting it together. And I had this little 2:18:11.560 --> 2:18:14.960 playback for the record company, and some kid in the 2:18:15.040 --> 2:18:17.800 playback meeting said that Joker, I like that. I think 2:18:18.040 --> 2:18:19.840 I think that could be a hit single. And I 2:18:20.800 --> 2:18:23.119 turned to him and I said, I don't care about 2:18:23.200 --> 2:18:26.480 hit singles anymore, you know, because I couldn't get played 2:18:26.560 --> 2:18:29.800 on AM radio every single I put. I mean, just 2:18:30.000 --> 2:18:34.160 could not do it. So I said, here's an album, 2:18:34.360 --> 2:18:37.279 here's a list. I'm going to go play sixty cities 2:18:37.320 --> 2:18:40.040 in the next ninety days. Just have some records in 2:18:40.120 --> 2:18:43.520 the towns where I'm playing this time. Okay, thank you 2:18:43.760 --> 2:18:49.720 very much, goodbye, and I got back from that tour 2:18:49.760 --> 2:18:51.920 of ninety days later and there was a check in 2:18:52.040 --> 2:18:55.199 my mailbox for three hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars 2:18:55.440 --> 2:19:02.920 in the junk mail. Kind of went holy yo. And 2:19:03.240 --> 2:19:05.080 I called up my agent and said, I'm taking the 2:19:05.200 --> 2:19:06.120 next year off. 2:19:08.000 --> 2:19:09.520 You didn't want to strike while the iron was hot? 2:19:09.640 --> 2:19:12.840 No, Well, I went. Two things happened. I went to 2:19:12.920 --> 2:19:15.880 the studio to Capitol to try and do something. I 2:19:16.040 --> 2:19:19.879 was exhausted. I was so burned out, man. They said, 2:19:20.040 --> 2:19:22.720 I can't. I haven't written anything, I can't think of anything. 2:19:23.280 --> 2:19:26.440 I'm wasting money here. Let's stop. So we stopped for 2:19:26.480 --> 2:19:29.480 a couple of weeks. Then I went up to Seattle 2:19:29.560 --> 2:19:34.000 and I booked a studio up there, flew the band up. 2:19:34.200 --> 2:19:37.680 The band got there and quit. They flew to Seattle, 2:19:37.800 --> 2:19:43.160 had quit in mass And I said, and Gerald was there, 2:19:43.200 --> 2:19:45.840 and Gerald was giving me all this stuff, and I 2:19:45.920 --> 2:19:49.560 said Gerald, Gerald trilled, listen, never really tired, don't burn 2:19:49.560 --> 2:19:53.280 any bridges. We may want to work together again. Don't 2:19:53.360 --> 2:19:58.040 say it now, man. So they all quit, and I 2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:01.080 was just sitting there kind of going like, yeah, we're done. 2:20:01.240 --> 2:20:04.240 We had been struggling for so long. For so hard 2:20:05.480 --> 2:20:10.080 trying to get this done, and so I took I 2:20:10.240 --> 2:20:11.640 was going to take a year off, and I took 2:20:11.760 --> 2:20:16.840 eighteen months off. And what it did was it allowed 2:20:16.959 --> 2:20:23.200 me to sit down and think, and I basically lived 2:20:23.280 --> 2:20:27.920 alone by myself for eighteen months. And about eight months 2:20:27.959 --> 2:20:32.720 into it, I called up Lonnie and Gary Gary Malbora drummer, 2:20:32.760 --> 2:20:34.880 Lonnie Turner bass player, took him into the studio in 2:20:34.920 --> 2:20:40.920 San Francisco, cut twenty two tracks in eleven days, sent 2:20:41.000 --> 2:20:43.120 them home, and then I just went back to my 2:20:43.280 --> 2:20:46.520 house and engineered everything and just did all the vocals 2:20:46.560 --> 2:20:48.440 and the guitar parts over and over and over and 2:20:48.560 --> 2:20:51.560 over and over, and just worked on this thing that 2:20:51.680 --> 2:20:55.320 felt like a masterpiece. And I just kept working on it, 2:20:55.400 --> 2:20:57.040 and I had to race it all, and I'd do 2:20:57.120 --> 2:20:59.760 it again. I'd race it all, and I'd do it again. 2:21:00.280 --> 2:21:02.320 I had an eight track tape recorder and there were 2:21:02.440 --> 2:21:06.040 two tracks with the stereo mix. One track had a 2:21:06.160 --> 2:21:09.240 sink tone. So they gave me five open tracks, and 2:21:09.440 --> 2:21:12.120 so I did everything that way. I had five open tracks, 2:21:13.040 --> 2:21:17.840 and when I got it all finished, I basically had 2:21:18.800 --> 2:21:21.640 done everything that I had set out to do. McCartney 2:21:21.720 --> 2:21:24.320 had the thing with the Beatles in sixty nine was 2:21:24.480 --> 2:21:26.680 I went there and when I saw what they had 2:21:26.720 --> 2:21:30.920 in the can, I just went, oh my god, they've 2:21:30.959 --> 2:21:34.720 got forty six songs in the can. God, there are 2:21:34.800 --> 2:21:39.800 four albums ahead. They're ahead. That's how they do this timing, 2:21:39.959 --> 2:21:42.000 you know, that's how it is. It's not like the 2:21:42.040 --> 2:21:44.200 boys are trying to write something. They'll be back in 2:21:44.280 --> 2:21:44.920 eighteen months. 2:21:45.000 --> 2:21:45.120 You know. 2:21:45.560 --> 2:21:48.560 They were way ahead. And Paul, you know, told me 2:21:48.600 --> 2:21:50.119 about that, and so I went, I got to get 2:21:50.280 --> 2:21:54.520 two albums ahead. So I had all these singles and 2:21:54.640 --> 2:21:59.600 I was looking at them and I knew what FM 2:21:59.680 --> 2:22:04.000 rate is needed. I wasn't thinking about AM radio. I 2:22:04.160 --> 2:22:05.920 had to help build FM radio. 2:22:05.959 --> 2:22:09.439 So you purposely did that, Yeah, okay. 2:22:09.680 --> 2:22:12.080 Yeah, I mean I was making an album for you know, 2:22:12.400 --> 2:22:14.920 AM radio wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole. 2:22:15.200 --> 2:22:17.400 You know. They did with The Joker, but you know, 2:22:18.320 --> 2:22:20.280 and they really did. I mean, when I came back 2:22:20.320 --> 2:22:22.640 from that tour the Joker was, I remember driving to 2:22:22.720 --> 2:22:25.400 do a gig in Oakland and putting the radio and 2:22:25.520 --> 2:22:28.040 just going through to see where it was on. And 2:22:28.160 --> 2:22:31.560 it was on four of the five top forty stations 2:22:31.600 --> 2:22:33.360 et CE. So what I was pissed off because it 2:22:33.440 --> 2:22:38.520 was none there's no joy in any of this. You know, 2:22:38.680 --> 2:22:40.680 you never stop and go. Isn't this great? 2:22:40.760 --> 2:22:41.080 It was like. 2:22:42.800 --> 2:22:47.280 But so I knew that I was writing something really 2:22:47.360 --> 2:22:51.360 great for FM radio, that I was writing something great 2:22:51.440 --> 2:22:55.920 for radio itself, that this was how radio needed to sound, 2:22:56.600 --> 2:22:58.680 that this was where it needed to go. It was 2:22:58.760 --> 2:23:03.760 the material they needed. And my you know, songwriting of 2:23:03.840 --> 2:23:06.920 my music was going on at the same time, and 2:23:07.040 --> 2:23:09.640 my understanding of how to make records had grown quite 2:23:09.680 --> 2:23:12.800 a bit. And I worked on it and worked on 2:23:12.879 --> 2:23:14.400 it and worked on it and worked on it. When 2:23:14.440 --> 2:23:18.280 I was finished, I took it myself, took the tape 2:23:18.680 --> 2:23:21.920 and I had two slides, the cover and the back 2:23:22.000 --> 2:23:24.000 of flylike an Eagle, and I took it to the president. 2:23:24.040 --> 2:23:28.520 I said, this is going to sell four million copies anyway. 2:23:30.040 --> 2:23:32.120 He said, well, let's go down and see the art department. 2:23:32.320 --> 2:23:35.520 So we went down and talked to John Vandervelt and 2:23:35.560 --> 2:23:38.880 he did the cover just like that and put it 2:23:39.000 --> 2:23:40.720 out and. 2:23:40.760 --> 2:23:41.560 We ended up like. 2:23:44.480 --> 2:23:50.520 Dominating AM radio and FM radio at its height when 2:23:50.560 --> 2:23:52.520 it sold when I said, when both of them were 2:23:52.520 --> 2:23:55.879 at its most powerful. And so it was a great 2:23:56.000 --> 2:23:59.720 time to you know, my timing was right. Everything just 2:24:00.240 --> 2:24:02.680 my creative work came together at the right time, and 2:24:03.520 --> 2:24:06.440 the whole thing just went way, way up. I think 2:24:06.480 --> 2:24:11.880 we sold god thirteen million records and I don't know 2:24:12.280 --> 2:24:15.080 two and a half three years something like that, and 2:24:15.360 --> 2:24:19.760 had a lot of singles and dominated Airplane. It was 2:24:19.800 --> 2:24:23.960 really the thing for me that was cool was that 2:24:24.040 --> 2:24:27.480 when the FM radio put the record on, they played 2:24:27.480 --> 2:24:30.080 the whole side. Yes, for the first three months. Man, 2:24:30.120 --> 2:24:33.680 they never took it off. And that was always part 2:24:33.760 --> 2:24:35.840 of the thing was I wanted those segues to just 2:24:36.040 --> 2:24:38.560 bring people in. And you know, when I listened to music, 2:24:38.640 --> 2:24:40.959 that's what I want. I want to go on Bozo 2:24:41.360 --> 2:24:45.640 Goes to the Circus with John Coltrane, you know, or 2:24:45.760 --> 2:24:49.040 Miles or whoever it is I'm listening to when I 2:24:49.120 --> 2:24:51.640 got my eyes closed and I'm in space and I'm 2:24:51.720 --> 2:24:55.280 listening and I'm feeling and I'm enjoying myself. You know, 2:24:56.200 --> 2:24:57.160 that's the way I want to be. 2:24:57.360 --> 2:25:02.440 It's like nice, long good so essentially fly like an 2:25:02.440 --> 2:25:04.560 Eagle and I guess Book of Dreams. That's that group 2:25:04.640 --> 2:25:06.240 of songs that you're talking about. They were all sort 2:25:06.280 --> 2:25:09.280 of made it the same same Yeah, same same equipment, 2:25:09.840 --> 2:25:13.640 same techniques, maybe recording because I was really asking sonically, 2:25:14.320 --> 2:25:14.480 you know. 2:25:16.680 --> 2:25:19.400 You know it's funny. It took seventeen hours to mix 2:25:19.560 --> 2:25:21.680 Fly Like an Eagle, and we did a quad mix 2:25:21.800 --> 2:25:25.200 to just went in the studios supper quad mix. Yeah. 2:25:25.600 --> 2:25:27.000 You were really big on that, weren't you. 2:25:27.120 --> 2:25:27.959 Oh yeah, I. 2:25:27.959 --> 2:25:29.800 Didn't have QUI I mean I had the quad versions 2:25:29.840 --> 2:25:31.400 of some of these records, but I don't have the 2:25:31.480 --> 2:25:33.920 quad needles. Yeah, equipment to. 2:25:34.120 --> 2:25:37.240 It never sounded any good, you know. But if you're 2:25:37.280 --> 2:25:39.720 in a Westwood room, like these are Westwood speakers here, 2:25:40.360 --> 2:25:42.840 and uh, you know this is prob. Maybe this is 2:25:42.879 --> 2:25:46.000 a Western room. It looks like one, and uh, you know, 2:25:46.600 --> 2:25:48.120 we could get the tape here and play it and 2:25:48.160 --> 2:25:52.359 it'd be going. But you know, like stockhausm Man Stockhausen 2:25:52.400 --> 2:25:56.160 built a circle. Two Jesus, don't put them together for 2:25:56.160 --> 2:25:59.879 a circle. But the floor in the middle brought the stairs. 2:26:00.160 --> 2:26:03.120 This is that the Japanese World's Fair. Yeah, stairs up 2:26:03.120 --> 2:26:04.440 and you go up in the middle and you walk 2:26:04.480 --> 2:26:06.920 to it, and the speakers, the sounds going underneath you 2:26:07.000 --> 2:26:11.920 and going like this all around you in circles, you know, 2:26:12.160 --> 2:26:15.960 like three sixty for real. Underneath you and above you, 2:26:16.760 --> 2:26:18.920 all of that kind of stuff just makes the horizon 2:26:19.720 --> 2:26:23.279 better and bigger and more delicious. 2:26:24.360 --> 2:26:26.080 I don't know if I want my music sneaking up 2:26:26.080 --> 2:26:27.280 from me from behind. 2:26:27.360 --> 2:26:27.560 You know. 2:26:33.440 --> 2:26:36.040 We're currently here at Electric Lady Studios in New York, 2:26:36.360 --> 2:26:37.440 home of Jimi Hendrix. 2:26:37.840 --> 2:26:40.520 I never recorded here, ever been here at all. 2:26:42.320 --> 2:26:44.320 No, I think this is my first time here. Wow, 2:26:45.080 --> 2:26:48.560 we brought him here, you did, Thank you very much 2:26:48.640 --> 2:26:49.600 for inviting me, And. 2:26:51.920 --> 2:26:54.840 Well, I just guitars and stuff. You know you clearly like. 2:26:54.920 --> 2:26:58.800 Them, so you know, I mean, Steve wanted to make 2:26:58.800 --> 2:27:01.200 sure you were somewhere special. Seriously, he was like, we 2:27:01.320 --> 2:27:03.360 can't we have to have Steve Miller in Electric Lader. 2:27:03.480 --> 2:27:06.040 Yeah, it's only right, Okay, I would be remiss. And 2:27:06.080 --> 2:27:08.960 I know you're tired of telling him about your account 2:27:09.000 --> 2:27:10.840 of it. I want to ask about the Rock and 2:27:10.959 --> 2:27:16.280 Roll Hall of Fame. Oh yeah, the year later, do 2:27:16.360 --> 2:27:17.400 you feel better about it? 2:27:17.560 --> 2:27:19.000 Or what's the controversy? I'm sorry? 2:27:19.080 --> 2:27:19.440 Brief me. 2:27:19.840 --> 2:27:23.600 Well, I mean, are you are you not in it? 2:27:25.040 --> 2:27:25.440 He's in it. 2:27:25.560 --> 2:27:28.080 Yes, he's been inducted. I watched him getting dun Okay, yes, 2:27:28.520 --> 2:27:30.960 you were there with ut I was sitting next to 2:27:31.040 --> 2:27:33.439 David Burton dudekay, amazing. I totally forgot. 2:27:34.959 --> 2:27:39.880 You red sticky fingers, right, yes, yeah, that's that's the 2:27:40.000 --> 2:27:41.840 problem with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 2:27:41.959 --> 2:27:46.240 So I don't get that right. So half the staff 2:27:46.360 --> 2:27:47.840 is on, well what what. 2:27:48.800 --> 2:27:51.160 What bothered me about the Rock and Roll Hall of 2:27:51.240 --> 2:27:54.560 Fame was and and I said all of this in 2:27:54.680 --> 2:27:59.520 the Billboard article the next day was Uh. There was 2:27:59.680 --> 2:28:02.720 no gathering, there was no party, there was no dinner, 2:28:02.840 --> 2:28:05.160 there was no anything from the Rock and Roll Hall 2:28:05.160 --> 2:28:07.840 of Fame at all. I wasn't introduced to any of 2:28:07.920 --> 2:28:13.400 the inductees, not introduced to one I was met at. 2:28:13.520 --> 2:28:17.359 I was told that no, I couldn't make any suggestions 2:28:17.400 --> 2:28:21.320 about who I wanted to induct. I was told that 2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:24.880 if I wanted extra tickets for my band, Remember there 2:28:24.920 --> 2:28:28.879 were ten thousand dollars apiece at my table, ten thousand 2:28:28.920 --> 2:28:32.360 dollars a ticket. I was set a contract that was 2:28:32.840 --> 2:28:35.920 worse than any record contract I'd ever seen in my life, 2:28:35.959 --> 2:28:40.160 that was so purposely written in a way that was 2:28:40.400 --> 2:28:43.680 impossible to understand that I would I just laughed at it. 2:28:44.480 --> 2:28:48.879 And I was asked to start, you know, giving over things, 2:28:49.840 --> 2:28:57.520 delivering guitars, giving special stuff and the contractually. There was 2:28:57.640 --> 2:29:00.320 like a three month argument before I ever got there. 2:29:00.760 --> 2:29:03.920 So when I got there, some women came up to 2:29:04.000 --> 2:29:07.960 me and goes, hi, my name's Shirley, and I'm your minder. 2:29:08.760 --> 2:29:13.240 I'm from like you know, entertainment services or something, you know, 2:29:13.280 --> 2:29:15.320 with a clipboard, and took me to a little cement 2:29:15.480 --> 2:29:17.800 room with two metal chairs. Took Janie and I there 2:29:17.840 --> 2:29:19.840 and said we need you to wait here for an 2:29:19.879 --> 2:29:21.680 hour and then we're gonna call you and we're gonna 2:29:21.720 --> 2:29:28.960 come down and do this thing. Right. So you know 2:29:29.080 --> 2:29:32.320 I was going to do that. So I went out 2:29:32.320 --> 2:29:34.280 of the hall, ran into a few people and stuff 2:29:34.360 --> 2:29:36.400 like that, and then there was some little sort of 2:29:36.800 --> 2:29:39.920 cocktail party that was open to anybody and everybody, kind 2:29:39.959 --> 2:29:44.400 of a hustler party, and got out of that. Next day, 2:29:44.440 --> 2:29:46.640 we go to do the soundcheck. We're giving like about 2:29:46.680 --> 2:29:52.360 twelve minutes. My house mixer can't mix my monitor. Man's 2:29:52.440 --> 2:29:54.920 not allowed to use the monitor mixer. We got a 2:29:54.959 --> 2:29:57.800 guy who's doing the monitor mix and an iPad two 2:29:57.879 --> 2:30:02.000 hundred feet away. Hurry up, you got twelve minutes. Let's 2:30:02.000 --> 2:30:04.160 go let's go, let's go get out of here. So 2:30:04.280 --> 2:30:08.720 we do that, and uh, time goes by, and then 2:30:08.760 --> 2:30:10.640 all of a sudden, it's time for the show to start, 2:30:10.879 --> 2:30:15.160 and somebody just takes me out. And I'm sat at 2:30:15.200 --> 2:30:17.560 a table where I don't know anyone at the table, 2:30:18.400 --> 2:30:24.360 so very satisfying. My band, My band is three hundred 2:30:24.640 --> 2:30:28.520 feet over that way somewhere I hadn't seen them, and 2:30:28.720 --> 2:30:35.320 I'm sitting there and and I'm I'm sitting here thinking like, 2:30:36.440 --> 2:30:40.760 let's see, I would have had a party. I would 2:30:40.800 --> 2:30:43.000 have introduced everybody, and then I would have had, like, 2:30:43.200 --> 2:30:45.720 you know, some little kids from the let's you know, 2:30:45.920 --> 2:30:48.240 the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Music School come 2:30:48.320 --> 2:30:50.400 up and play, you know, one of Steve's songs and 2:30:50.520 --> 2:30:53.760 want to you know, they're whoever, you know, NWA songics whatever, 2:30:54.520 --> 2:30:57.440 do this, and and then I'd explained about our music 2:30:57.600 --> 2:31:00.240 education program and how we're really glad I had to 2:31:00.280 --> 2:31:03.200 have these new inductees together, and we really wanted your 2:31:03.280 --> 2:31:06.640 help on these programs and wanted to, you know, rope 2:31:06.680 --> 2:31:09.520 you into the Hall of Fame beacon of light for 2:31:09.680 --> 2:31:13.800 music education. This was like the coldest grab for a 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:16.760 profit to get money for a TV show. And I'm 2:31:16.840 --> 2:31:19.360 telling you men, when I walked off the stage in 2:31:19.440 --> 2:31:22.360 the back and these little smarmy kids were going like, hey, 2:31:22.560 --> 2:31:24.120 so you were up for twenty three years and they 2:31:24.120 --> 2:31:25.760 didn't put you in. How does that make you feel? 2:31:25.879 --> 2:31:28.080 You know, it's kind of want to fuck you. You know, 2:31:28.400 --> 2:31:31.480 I'll you know this that. And I walked out the 2:31:31.640 --> 2:31:34.960 door man and the door closed, and I had a 2:31:34.959 --> 2:31:37.640 little statue up in my hand, and my lovely wife 2:31:37.720 --> 2:31:41.120 with me, and Jimmy Vaughan and Rob and his wife, 2:31:41.160 --> 2:31:43.760 and we said, well, let's uber a car and go home. Hey, 2:31:43.920 --> 2:31:45.320 uber a car? Wow? 2:31:45.840 --> 2:31:48.119 No car to take you. I feel bad for Janice 2:31:48.120 --> 2:31:50.560 because I know there was a lot of motherfuckers that night, right? 2:31:50.760 --> 2:31:51.680 Was it a lot in that wrong? 2:31:52.440 --> 2:31:56.920 You know? That's what. So the way I looked at 2:31:56.959 --> 2:32:01.880 it was like I could really helped this place. I 2:32:02.000 --> 2:32:05.320 could have really done a lot of good for the 2:32:05.480 --> 2:32:08.960 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And they didn't even ask, 2:32:09.480 --> 2:32:12.120 They didn't even they weren't even interested. And I know 2:32:12.320 --> 2:32:14.760 that I'm in here because they want to make a 2:32:14.840 --> 2:32:19.960 television show. There are two good things that happened. One was, uh, 2:32:21.720 --> 2:32:32.840 the night ended Ice Cuban doctor Dre in the middle 2:32:32.879 --> 2:32:35.400 of them, right, this picture going, this is a cool picture. 2:32:35.440 --> 2:32:37.720 And I don't really care about pictures and stuff, but 2:32:37.800 --> 2:32:39.520 I've got this is gonna be a great picture. And 2:32:39.640 --> 2:32:42.240 I'm really proud to be here. And Soga, So Dre, 2:32:43.360 --> 2:32:45.480 that was a flylike an eagle you sampled on and 2:32:45.600 --> 2:33:00.600 Killer Killer right, yeah, I said, that's okay, Okay, it 2:33:00.760 --> 2:33:02.600 was like classic man, you. 2:33:04.520 --> 2:33:09.160 Know you don't play that. Okay. My last question, and 2:33:09.280 --> 2:33:15.680 that's it. I promise your three, just your three, because 2:33:15.680 --> 2:33:19.039 I know you're passionate about music. Your three all time 2:33:19.120 --> 2:33:24.440 favorite albums, could you And I don't mean like Desert 2:33:24.560 --> 2:33:30.160 disc or whatever. Just kind of blue, okay, Miles Davis 2:33:30.160 --> 2:33:30.840 is kind of blue. 2:33:38.320 --> 2:33:40.160 I'm not sure the name of the album. It's it's 2:33:41.160 --> 2:33:43.800 I think it's Bob Crossby and the Bobcats with a 2:33:43.959 --> 2:33:55.400 big noise from Monetta and honky Tonk trained and probably 2:33:55.640 --> 2:33:59.280 you know, a Jimmy Reid album. Those are you know, 2:33:59.720 --> 2:34:03.320 my those are those that's the music that just really 2:34:03.560 --> 2:34:04.360 rocked my soul. 2:34:05.400 --> 2:34:08.320 Well, I gotta say I got more than what I'm 2:34:08.879 --> 2:34:11.920 barking for it because I thought it was just going 2:34:12.000 --> 2:34:14.000 to be the history of the Steve Miller band. But 2:34:14.440 --> 2:34:16.680 we got way more music. 2:34:16.959 --> 2:34:21.840 I got more than I bargained for it too, I'm 2:34:21.920 --> 2:34:22.280 saying that. 2:34:22.480 --> 2:34:26.880 Yeah, Like for me, my favorite type of interviews are 2:34:26.920 --> 2:34:31.560 either engineers or like artists that were there for historical 2:34:31.760 --> 2:34:36.480 like these historical beatings or you know, historical moments that 2:34:37.160 --> 2:34:39.720 you never even think about. But yeah, this is such 2:34:39.920 --> 2:34:43.680 a major major education. Before I signed off, is any 2:34:43.760 --> 2:34:45.960 other historical things happened to you that I don't know about? 2:34:46.000 --> 2:34:48.240 That dude has jammed with literally every person. 2:34:50.400 --> 2:34:53.720 Then I was just like, you. 2:34:53.760 --> 2:34:57.519 Know, next time we'll talk about Otis writing a moderat. 2:35:00.680 --> 2:35:02.280 Wait, wait we can, we can. We can go for 2:35:02.400 --> 2:35:03.720 two more minutes. We can go for two minutes. 2:35:06.560 --> 2:35:08.280 If you're having any pains in your dairy, you should 2:35:08.320 --> 2:35:10.120 know to Jimmy jam was forced to do this for 2:35:10.240 --> 2:35:11.960 six hours and didn't even know it. 2:35:14.080 --> 2:35:14.960 His butt was numb. 2:35:16.200 --> 2:35:20.080 Yeah, okay, I will sign off now, but as an encore, yes, 2:35:20.160 --> 2:35:24.360 thank you for tuning the question, and now for our encore, 2:35:24.520 --> 2:35:26.440 the Otis Writing story by Steve Miller. 2:35:26.680 --> 2:35:32.400 So, uh, Monterey Pop Festivals, right, and there's a lot 2:35:32.480 --> 2:35:39.560 of kind of like Johnny Rivers and Laura Nero and uh, 2:35:41.280 --> 2:35:44.680 it's kind of you know what, what's going on? Right? 2:35:46.040 --> 2:35:49.760 And all of a sudden, I'm backstage and I just 2:35:50.040 --> 2:35:54.040 hear this curve and I just jumped snapped just like 2:35:54.160 --> 2:35:56.440 that and said, I gotta go, gotta go, gotta go, 2:35:57.879 --> 2:36:01.240 running to the stage and got up on the stage 2:36:01.560 --> 2:36:06.119 and Spooker t and the MG's and they're just warming 2:36:06.240 --> 2:36:08.520 it up. And then I think it was the barcase 2:36:08.640 --> 2:36:13.240 or the horn section, and the bar case had this 2:36:13.560 --> 2:36:17.760 trumpet player had this little pocket trumpet and he's like, 2:36:18.400 --> 2:36:20.760 they're beginning to do these steps and they're just playing 2:36:20.800 --> 2:36:22.960 these instrumentals and they're walking back in this little This 2:36:23.040 --> 2:36:26.240 little trumpet player is just this mean little guy up 2:36:29.800 --> 2:36:32.280 and I'm sitting there watching this, just going this is 2:36:32.360 --> 2:36:39.480 gonna be the greatest thing in the world. And Otis 2:36:39.560 --> 2:36:44.000 came out on the stage and he grabbed the mic 2:36:44.120 --> 2:36:46.440 and he just hit the first note and it was 2:36:46.640 --> 2:36:50.360 like this giant punch to the solar place. The whole 2:36:50.360 --> 2:36:54.840 audience just went oh, and this mood just came over 2:36:54.959 --> 2:36:59.560 the whole place and he just killed it. Just didn't 2:36:59.600 --> 2:37:02.520 stop for a second. Man, the whole show was just 2:37:03.160 --> 2:37:06.440 the most beautiful show I ever saw in my life. 2:37:06.480 --> 2:37:08.520 And the last thing I remember about it was like 2:37:08.640 --> 2:37:11.920 I was standing outside away from it, and I was 2:37:12.000 --> 2:37:16.360 watching people in the parking lot leave and everybody was happy. 2:37:17.520 --> 2:37:19.640 Everybody man. As far as you could see, there was 2:37:19.800 --> 2:37:24.320 just this warmth and I thought he was like the 2:37:24.440 --> 2:37:27.440 greatest that. I thought that was one of the greatest 2:37:27.480 --> 2:37:30.680 live performances I had ever seen it. I've seen Ray 2:37:30.800 --> 2:37:34.120 Charles and I've seen James Brown with the Flames, and 2:37:34.680 --> 2:37:38.560 I've seen a lot of great shows, and that was 2:37:38.760 --> 2:37:43.280 like probably the most powerful performance I think I ever 2:37:43.400 --> 2:37:44.200 saw an artist do. 2:37:45.440 --> 2:37:48.840 I was just one more night when we have a 2:37:48.879 --> 2:37:52.240 boss Bill, I'm baby Bill Sugar Steve. It's like yea 2:37:52.959 --> 2:37:59.760 and fantigolo. Thank you, Steve Miller. Appreciate it is another 2:38:00.680 --> 2:38:04.560 extravaganza episode of Quest Love Supreme Love You. 2:38:04.640 --> 2:38:07.400 It's a it's a great honor to be here. And 2:38:07.680 --> 2:38:12.080 I really appreciate who you are and what you do 2:38:12.520 --> 2:38:18.280 and and uh your intellectual curiosity and I want to 2:38:18.360 --> 2:38:20.040 play some music with you. I think we should go 2:38:20.080 --> 2:38:23.160 to the studio and we should like start with something 2:38:23.240 --> 2:38:24.600 and just take it somewhere. 2:38:24.720 --> 2:38:28.280 You just don't let them, don't let them use space 2:38:28.320 --> 2:38:30.160 and troll. Don't let him use space. 2:38:30.160 --> 2:38:35.640 From bringing my echoplex and mike from your mouth to Steve, 2:38:36.600 --> 2:38:39.760 because if we've grown up together, we would be doing 2:38:39.840 --> 2:38:42.320 this together. I know we would have. Yeah, thank you 2:38:42.520 --> 2:38:46.040 you have that's awesome, all right, So Steve, we got 2:38:46.080 --> 2:38:46.920 our Yeah. 2:38:47.320 --> 2:38:51.720 Next album sounds good, Timothy and is that you and. 2:38:51.760 --> 2:38:53.880 The state of course that's you. Of course even the 2:38:53.959 --> 2:38:57.000 Smithsonian comes to visit. All right, Thank you very much, Steve, Bill, 2:38:57.040 --> 2:39:01.560 I appreciate it. The next go around, this was Quest. 2:39:01.760 --> 2:39:04.520 Thank you, Kay, Peace, Love and Happiness. 2:39:13.200 --> 2:39:16.960 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 2:39:17.000 --> 2:39:23.680 episode was produced by the team at Mandora. For more 2:39:23.720 --> 2:39:27.720 podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 2:39:28.160 --> 2:39:29.840 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.