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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What's Up?

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Speaker 2: This is on paid bill from Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 3: For the next COLS classic, We'll get back to Steve

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Speaker 3: Miller's January tenth about eighteen appearance rock and Roll Hall

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Speaker 3: of Famer talks about the early lessons he learned from

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Speaker 3: Les Ball and Tibo and Walker, singing on a Promptu

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Speaker 3: recording session with the Beatles and performing with greats like

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Speaker 3: Chuck Berry, slyestonemor Fly Like an Eagle.

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Speaker 2: Back to episode sixty.

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Speaker 4: Six, Suprema Sun Sun Supreme, Roll Suprema Sun Sun Suprema

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Speaker 4: Roll Suprema So Sun Supreme, Roll Suprema Supreme.

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Speaker 1: Quest Love in the Place. Yeah, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about what space? So Yeah, I'm starting a question inside

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Speaker 1: the theme song. Steve Miller, I just have to ask you,

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Speaker 1: that was what was on your mind when you were

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Speaker 1: making Blue Odyssey in Space and just in less than

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds, please.

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Speaker 2: I had just got a really really cheap synthesizer, my

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Speaker 2: first one, and I immediately hooked it up to my

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Speaker 2: echo plex, and I had an eight track tape recorder,

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Speaker 2: and I just was building electronic soundscapes, like broadening the

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Speaker 2: horizon so I could put something in it.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Oh, Suprema Supremo, Role Suprema Suprema.

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Speaker 2: Roll call.

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Speaker 1: My name is Fante, Yeah, your favorite rapper. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: work my magic. Yeah, abracadabra, Oh Supremo, Roll.

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Speaker 4: Up, Supremo.

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Speaker 2: Roll call.

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Speaker 6: My name is Sugar Yeah, Sugar sugar Baby, Sugar Baby,

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Speaker 6: Sugar sugar Bet.

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Speaker 2: Supremo. Roll call Supreme.

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Speaker 7: So Supremo rolls bills in the place. We're gonna have

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Speaker 7: some fun, yeah and learn how the biz. Yeah, take

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Speaker 7: some money in runs.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Supreme Supremo.

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Speaker 2: Roll call. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Steve Miller, I'm stoked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 8: You want to say smokering joker. Yeah, That's how I feel.

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Speaker 1: Sure, m Supremo.

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Speaker 2: Roll call. Some people call me Maurice, some people call

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Speaker 2: me the space Cowboy. Some people call me Stevie. But

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you that cowboy Supreme.

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Speaker 5: Roll Suprema Supreme, Roll Suprema Suprema, Roll Suprema son Supreme.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Well, good morning, good morning. I feel much better.

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Speaker 1: Cool ladies and gentlemen, we are honored here today to

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Speaker 1: have the legendary the artist artist. I'm very glad that

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Speaker 1: you're on the show because I've always wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to someone that to whom it took more than seven

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Speaker 1: albums to finally break on through to the other side.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not alone this world. No, no, you're not.

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Speaker 1: I yeah. I would like to think, if I can

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Speaker 1: insert myself inside my own radio show, that if yeah

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Speaker 1: the first time, that if we were out in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: if the roots were out in the sixties, we probably

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Speaker 1: traveled the same path that Steve Miller took. A guy

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Speaker 1: who had relentless, uncompromising artistic goals in life that he

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Speaker 1: set and he didn't cow town or bowed down to

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Speaker 1: the man. And you know, true a true story of

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Speaker 1: artist development and innovation. And we thank you for coming.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Steve Miller ourselves supreme.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's that's pretty humbling. You know, we would have

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Speaker 2: had had we been rolling at the same time, we

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Speaker 2: probably would have been touring together because trying to do artistics,

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Speaker 2: make pop music intellectual, and do artistic things and be

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Speaker 2: political and make a change and in our society that

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Speaker 2: was those were all things that I see the roots

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Speaker 2: is being very interested in it. When I listened to

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Speaker 2: your records, I kind of go, oh, yeah, I know who. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're in this studio now, you know. And it's it's

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Speaker 2: really really sweet of you to say all those nice things,

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Speaker 2: you know, because nobody really says that stuff, and you

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Speaker 2: feel like that when you're working on it. In seven

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Speaker 2: albums was a long time, you know, but well you

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Speaker 2: did it well. You know, I was never not going

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Speaker 2: to you know, so that's the way that goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean being as though, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: definitely came from an era in which songs had to

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Speaker 1: speak for themselves, where there's actual grassroots, uh kind of

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Speaker 1: work put into spreading the word and word of mouth

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Speaker 1: and those sort of things. It wasn't like you know today,

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Speaker 1: where your celebrity determines how far you're going to go.

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Speaker 1: And you know, even sadly as of twenty seventeen, I mean,

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Speaker 1: talent really isn't even a fact. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: it could be a hindrance, see, you know, to say

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Speaker 1: the least, So come on now, buck up, cheer up.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying, a lot of talent out here, you know,

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Speaker 1: But I understand what you're what you're getting. I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of your music, but I just don't know

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Speaker 1: a lot of your your journey and your life that

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Speaker 1: that got you to the point.

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Speaker 2: So my journey's crazy. I can give it to you

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Speaker 2: an im areagraph. I'm so. I was born in Milwaukee

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Speaker 2: to a family. My mother's side of the family were

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Speaker 2: all musicians, and my father's side of the family they

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Speaker 2: were kind of inventors and doctors. So my dad was

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Speaker 2: a pathologist. He had a tape recorder. And when I

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Speaker 2: was four years old, I met Les Paul And this

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Speaker 2: was nineteen forty nine. Are you ready for that? Really? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It was just a few years after World War Two

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Speaker 2: and Les Paul showed up with an electric guitar.

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Speaker 1: And how does your family know Les Paul?

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Speaker 2: Well, he came to Milwaukee to put his act together

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Speaker 2: with Mary Ford before he went to New York to

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Speaker 2: do a TV show. It was one of the first

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Speaker 2: TV shows. It was a real weird little TV show.

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Speaker 2: It was like fifteen minutes long. It had kind of

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Speaker 2: come on at three point thirty in the afternoon from

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Speaker 2: his house. Wow, and they were putting They were rehearsing

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Speaker 2: at a supper club just down the block from where

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Speaker 2: we lived. My dad went down and said, I have

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Speaker 2: a tape recorder, which was this brand new technology that

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Speaker 2: came over from Germany after World War Two. It was

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Speaker 2: one of the first tape recorders. So he said, can

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Speaker 2: I record your shows? And Les said, yeah, of course.

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Speaker 2: So I went down with my father with Pops and

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Speaker 2: we watched Les Paul play every night. And I was

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Speaker 2: like four years old sitting on the bench next to him,

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Speaker 2: watching this guitar player. And then they would come over

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Speaker 2: the house to listen to the tapes and party. So

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Speaker 2: there were lots of parties, lots of drinking, lots of smoking,

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Speaker 2: lots of musicians, lots of people hanging out. And that's

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Speaker 2: the beginning. And I knew that you could speed tape up,

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Speaker 2: you could slow it down. You know, if you sped

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Speaker 2: the tape up and recorded and then slowed it down,

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Speaker 2: you know, the guitar would sound like a bass. Or

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Speaker 2: if you recorded at three and a half and you know,

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Speaker 2: played a lead bart and then put back up to seven,

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Speaker 2: it'd be twice as fast. And I understood that Mary

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Speaker 2: Ford was singing multiple tracks. And this is like nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty nine. Overdubbing wasn't even a thing yet. They had

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Speaker 2: just invented it seeing Patty Page and Less with the

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Speaker 2: multi tracking, and so I just there. I was. I

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Speaker 2: was like five years old, kind of going yeah, multi tracking.

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Speaker 2: And then of postcards came to our house after they

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Speaker 2: went New York and they had their TV show and

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Speaker 2: there was one hundred postcards and they were all stamped

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Speaker 2: and they were all addressed to the same radio station

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Speaker 2: in Milwaukee, but they were all written in kind of phony,

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Speaker 2: different handwriting, and that was to promote their next single.

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Speaker 2: So it's nineteen fifty and I'm walking around going, guy, man,

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Speaker 2: I love show business, and you know, I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a musician, and Meade lugs Lewis was my guy.

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Speaker 2: He Honky Tonk Trained was the greatest shuffle in the

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Speaker 2: world and he's just listened to that over and over

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Speaker 2: and over as a baby, and that's what I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do. And you know, my godfather Les Baul was

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Speaker 2: doing it, so I was watching him from a distance.

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Speaker 2: So I had all that. And then we moved to Texas,

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Speaker 2: and Texas was like really amazing because it was segregated

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Speaker 2: and I had never been in a segregated community before.

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Speaker 2: And I was a Yankee. I didn't know what anybody

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Speaker 2: was talking about. I was in the second grade and

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Speaker 2: I was going, what what are you talking about? You know?

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Speaker 2: And I was going to Stonewall Jackson Elementary School. It

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Speaker 2: was like that. And my dad was running this lab,

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Speaker 2: this pathology lab, and a friend of his was taking

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Speaker 2: care of this guy named T bone Walker, And so

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Speaker 2: my dad goes he introduces himself to T Bone and

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Speaker 2: they become friends, and T Bone comes over to the house.

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Speaker 2: So my parents rented a piano. I'd never seen a

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Speaker 2: piano before, and I got sick and stayed home from

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Speaker 2: school and played with a piano all day. And this

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Speaker 2: is true. At five o'clock in the afternoon, Tea bone

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Speaker 2: Walker drove into our We lived in this suburb where

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Speaker 2: there were like five thousand houses that looked the same,

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Speaker 2: and everybody had this little yard and that was the deal.

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Speaker 2: And T Bone pulled into the driveway and a flesh

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Speaker 2: colored Cadillac convertible with leopard skin seats and a suit

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Speaker 2: and tie on and a great, big, old Gibson guitar case.

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Speaker 2: And he came in and he opened up his case

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Speaker 2: and I was just all over him. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: just like, are you t Bone Marker? How do you

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Speaker 2: do this? How do you do that? And they he

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Speaker 2: would come over and play parties, and my dad recorded

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Speaker 2: all of this. So I have the recordings of like

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Speaker 2: the first night I met t Bone Walker, Yeah, man,

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Speaker 2: And they're really great recordings. And t Bone is whoever

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Speaker 2: it was on piano is just unbelievably cool. And t

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Speaker 2: Bone played from about six o'clock at night till about

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Speaker 2: five o'clock in the morning. And so I have these

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Speaker 2: tapes from nineteen fifty one and fifty two, and so

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Speaker 2: he taught me how to play the guitar behind my

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Speaker 2: head and do the splits. I was nine when I

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Speaker 2: met him, and so I was the main thing was

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Speaker 2: I was sitting there watching Ta boat and play lead

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Speaker 2: guitar this far away from them, and there's I was

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Speaker 2: listening to one of these tapes just the other night.

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Speaker 2: We listened to them all the time, and t Bone

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Speaker 2: turns and me. He says, what you want to sing, Steve,

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Speaker 2: And I said nothing, I don't want to do. It's

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Speaker 2: just like watching. But so from there, I'm in Texas

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Speaker 2: and there's like country music. There's a big Djamboree. There's

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Speaker 2: like black radio stations, there's white radio stations. Jimmy Reid

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Speaker 2: is like pop music. It's just full of great music.

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Speaker 2: And I ran into a kid who had been taking

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Speaker 2: drum lessons since he was five years old, and he

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Speaker 2: was like twelve, and he was like a professional drummer.

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Speaker 2: He was just absolutely together and his dad was really cool.

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Speaker 2: He had a music room, and we used to go

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Speaker 2: over and listen to screaming Jay Hawkins records and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and we started playing together and we started a band.

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Speaker 2: It was nineteen fifty six, and mimeographed a letter sent

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Speaker 2: it out to all the high schools and colleges and

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Speaker 2: fraternities and sororities and churches and boys and girls clubs

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Speaker 2: and synagogues, any place that had live music, saying we

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Speaker 2: had a rock and roll band, and there weren't any

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Speaker 2: rock and roll bands there was nineteen fifty six.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask one thing? Yeah, what city in Texas

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Speaker 1: was this?

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Speaker 2: Dallas, Okay? And Freddy King was on television in the afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon, there was an R and B show on TV,

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Speaker 2: and Lightning Hopkins was coming through town. There was a

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Speaker 2: lot of jazz all over h. Charles's band lived in

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Speaker 2: Fort Worth that had Newman. Those guys were in and

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Speaker 2: out of town and and so there was this really

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Speaker 2: cool music scene going on. And I was listening to

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Reid and Bill Doggett. Those were when I was

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Speaker 2: eleven and twelve. That was the stuff I really liked,

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Speaker 2: and that's what our band played. And so we sent

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Speaker 2: these letters out and I had the band booked for

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Speaker 2: like a whole school year, like in three weeks, and

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Speaker 2: nobody knew how old we were because we're twelve. But

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Speaker 2: it was a really good band. Boss Eggs was in

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Speaker 2: the joined the band the next year, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we had a really good repertoire. We did a lot

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Speaker 2: of blues out of R and B tunes and that

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Speaker 2: band stayed together all through high school and then followed

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Speaker 2: me into college. And so I grew up in the

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Speaker 2: in the middle of this sort of jazz scene. My

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Speaker 2: parents loved jazz, and jazz musicians were always coming.

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Speaker 1: Over and how accessible were because I mean, the story

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Speaker 1: that you're telling is just not the average story where

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Speaker 1: like TV and WATS. So first of all, I mean

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Speaker 1: as as a five year older or even okay, I'll

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Speaker 1: put you up further as a ten year older. I mean,

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Speaker 1: are you truly absolutely knowing that you're witnessing history right

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Speaker 1: here and this should be preserved and and huh.

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Speaker 2: So No, I just thought what I was witnessing was

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Speaker 2: great music, and being a musician was a lousy job,

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Speaker 2: you know, like in growing up in a middle class family,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I had I had, like my my

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Speaker 2: uncle my mother's side, had been in the Paul Whiteman orchestra.

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Speaker 2: He was a hot jazz violinist and he played in

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Speaker 2: that orchestra. And then when the depression came, he and

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Speaker 2: his brothers all went to medical school and became doctors.

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Speaker 2: So in my family, it was kind of like my

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Speaker 2: father and my grandfather had really raised themselves up. You know.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather was an orphan and he became a doctor.

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Speaker 2: He went to medical school and he was forty four

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Speaker 2: years old. Oh wow. And so it was all like,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna get an education, you're gonna work. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna take care of yourself, you're gonna provide, You're

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Speaker 2: gonna be a provider. And boy, do you just love

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Speaker 2: this musician music. But you're not gonna be a musician

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Speaker 2: there's never any to then encourage you to. It's really amazing,

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Speaker 2: you know. It's like my father, like I was playing

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Speaker 2: rock and roll, he would every now and then he

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Speaker 2: would show up at some gig and he just embarrass

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Speaker 2: the hell out of me. I'd stand there and go

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Speaker 2: like turn it down, you know. And this was when

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Speaker 2: we were like playing through one Fender amp and I

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Speaker 2: was set on volume three, you know, right way too well.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't know, and I didn't get I didn't

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Speaker 2: make my leap into the great unknown until I was

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Speaker 2: about twenty one years old because the whole time I

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Speaker 2: was playing, I was just having the greatest time in

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Speaker 2: the world. I had always had the best band in

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Speaker 2: town wherever I was, and was working more than anybody,

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Speaker 2: you know, just we had We just had the best

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Speaker 2: time and it was just fun. And I went to

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Speaker 2: University Wisconsin, went back to Madison, and I spent about

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Speaker 2: eight months. I took a year and went to Europe

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Speaker 2: and I went to the University of Copenhagen, and I

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Speaker 2: was going to be a writer and a journalist in

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Speaker 2: comparative literature, creative writing, that kind of stuff. And it

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Speaker 2: was the first time since I was twelve years old.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't had a band, you know, I didn't actually

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Speaker 2: play any gigs for about seven months, and I just

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Speaker 2: couldn't stand it. And I got back to the States,

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Speaker 2: got my band right back together at the University of Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: and then I just had a meeting one day with

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Speaker 2: my student advisor or counselor, you know, and I was

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Speaker 2: looking at these guys arguing over the size of their

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Speaker 2: desks and stuff, and I just went, I'm done. I'm

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Speaker 2: a musician. And I was lucky because Muddy Waters and

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Speaker 2: Helen Woolf and Paul Butterfield were all playing in night

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Speaker 2: clubs in a small area in Chicago all the time,

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Speaker 2: So just ninety miles away, that's as far as I

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Speaker 2: had to go to jump into this very mature, beautiful

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Speaker 2: music scene that I was.

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Speaker 1: Going to ask you how I knew that Milwaukee and

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Speaker 1: Chicago in proximity to each other, But how did those records,

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Speaker 1: How did those how did that blue scene even get

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Speaker 1: to you at the time?

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Speaker 2: And was it was like everybody's all records?

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Speaker 1: So were they on the radio at the time or

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Speaker 1: was it still like race.

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Speaker 2: Music in in Texas?

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Speaker 9: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Was? I mean? In Milwaukee? Was all records, and you know,

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Speaker 2: when I got to Texas, Texas was like a really

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Speaker 2: different place. And and radio Top forty radio was invented

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Speaker 2: in Dallas at KLIF by guy named Gordon McClendon. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I used to play sitar on those radio ads that

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Speaker 2: k Yeah, those were all made of Pam's recording studio

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Speaker 2: in Dallas and sold all over the United States, and

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Speaker 2: guys who owned radio stations went, Okay, we liked this program,

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Speaker 2: let's do this top forty thing, this top ten thing,

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Speaker 2: and they built all that there. Before that happened, you

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Speaker 2: heard all kinds of music on pop radio, on AM radio,

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Speaker 2: and we had we had like there was a station

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Speaker 2: called WRR in Dallas that played nothing but blues at

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Speaker 2: night and it was like a blues pedagogy. This guy

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Speaker 2: Jim Low was just the greatest DJ in the world

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Speaker 2: and he just played all blues records. So that was

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Speaker 2: like something that everybody growing up listened to. Blues like blues.

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Speaker 2: We were we were into like, you know, Little Walter had

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Speaker 2: hit records in Dallas when I was like thirteen and

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Speaker 2: fourteen years old. You know, Bo Diddley, all those guys

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Speaker 2: were just right there and they came through town a

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Speaker 2: lot and played a lot. So there was this music

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Speaker 2: scene that people went to and it.

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Speaker 1: Was can you receive these shows?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So back then, like how much would a show cost

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Speaker 1: to to see these acts? Like what was the typical building?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Frankie Avalon, I mean Frankie Lyman and the Teenagers

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Speaker 2: and Al Hibbler and Chuck Berry and the Cadillacs or

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Speaker 2: somebody like that would come through and it'd be like

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Speaker 2: two dollars at the sport of Toory, you know, and

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Speaker 2: as a package tour and just yeah, they were all

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Speaker 2: package tours.

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Speaker 1: Then how long would those shows be? Because I'd see

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Speaker 1: the marquis of some of these shows and I would

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Speaker 1: think that, okay, even at three to four songs each,

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Speaker 1: this could be a three to four hour fair. But

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Speaker 1: I know that they're doing matinee shows, afternoon shows, evening shows,

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Speaker 1: night shows.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, they were, you know, I kind of remember

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Speaker 2: him as being like three hours long. You know. We

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Speaker 2: used to go to the Sportatorum. The Sportatorium had the

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Speaker 2: big Djamboree and it had all the R and B

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Speaker 2: shows and they had the There really weren't a lot

348
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Speaker 2: of rock shows there, you know, there wasn't a lot.

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Speaker 2: Like I remember when Carl Perkins showed up at one

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Speaker 2: of these shows and did blue suede shoes and that

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Speaker 2: was like a oh wow, this is really different. And

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Speaker 2: they came up out of the crowd. They had a

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Speaker 2: big double bass and a cocktail drum and he just

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Speaker 2: like jumped up out of the stage. It was during

355
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Speaker 2: Al Hibbler's act and came and did a few things

356
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Speaker 2: and everybody went nuts and then he left. So that's

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Speaker 2: kind of what it was. You'd do three tunes and

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Speaker 2: then move on. It wasn't anything like it is now.

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Speaker 1: And so you're saying that these shows that you saw,

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Speaker 1: it was mostly black acts and the idea of like

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Speaker 1: Elvis culture and more white oriented rock acts or the

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Speaker 1: people that would established.

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Speaker 2: It, you know, like like like that was that they

364
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: were R and B shows that came came through that

365
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: everybody went to. And then when the white acts came through,

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Speaker 2: like I remember seeing Ricky Nelson, you know, with James Burden.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to go see James Burden play guitar, and and

368
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Speaker 2: he was big enough to come and do a show

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Speaker 2: in a theater. He played at the Majestic Theater, but

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Speaker 2: mainly it was like, you know, these arena kind of

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Speaker 2: big all star review kind of shows what the.

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Speaker 8: Term rock and roll even popular?

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Speaker 1: But at point kind of not still race music.

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Speaker 2: No, it was you know, we didn't call it race music,

375
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Speaker 2: but uh, it was totally segregated on the airwaves, but

376
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 2: it wasn't. I mean people, you know, everybody listened, like

377
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Speaker 2: everybody I went to school with listened to K and okay,

378
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: which was the black radio station, because that was always

379
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: going to be a lot better than k l i F,

380
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: which had like, you know, Frankie Avalon. You know, like

381
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 2: if you go back and sort of look at the

382
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: pop list and stuff and don't make fun of the

383
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 2: Mills brothers, they're great, you know, that's ever. But yeah,

384
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Speaker 2: I mean it was like there was this really square

385
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: white music, and like guys like Pat Boone. Pat Boone

386
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Speaker 2: had a TV show in Fort Worth where he dressed

387
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Speaker 2: like a soda jerk. He had that you know, the

388
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 2: little white paper had on and saying all those groovy

389
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Speaker 2: versions of it and he was going to be like

390
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Speaker 2: big Crosby, that's that's where that was going. We were

391
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: it interested.

392
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Speaker 1: So even then there was counter you're saying that there

393
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: was counterculture, totally mainstream squares, totally, that's that's sort of play.

394
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Speaker 2: So I was walking around in the seventh grade with

395
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: my Jimmy Reid records going listen to this baby, okay,

396
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Speaker 2: you know, and.

397
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Speaker 8: What were people saying back to you?

398
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everybody loved it. Everybody loved it, and we

399
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: uh hell, I used to back up Jimmy Reid when

400
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: I was fourteen years old. We played and backed up

401
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: Jimmy Reid, and Jimmy Reid was like one of the

402
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: most popular acts in Dallas. In Dallas for white kids,

403
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: black kids, it didn't matter, you know, he was those

404
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: were hit records.

405
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Speaker 9: So you must have been the ship at fourteen to

406
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 9: like your peers, right because you're playing behind him.

407
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 8: So what was that like?

408
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: Well, you know, nobody even cared about that. There wasn't anybody, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

409
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: no no. We were a bar band. There weren't you know,

410
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: these careers that exist now people like us sitting here right,

411
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: you know, pontificating about how important it was and how

412
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: deep we thought didn't even exist. If you were a musician,

413
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, you were working in bars and nightclubs, or

414
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: you were on the Dick Clark Bus, you know, with

415
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: forty people, you know, to going to town to town

416
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: to town, and there wasn't nothing was you know. The

417
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: people that had the big careers were like Bob Hope

418
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: and Annette Funachello. Yeah it was they were on TV

419
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: and you know, careers lasted eighteen months and you weren't.

420
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: Nobody thought they could make a living doing this. And

421
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: I never thought I would ever make a record until

422
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: I saw Paul Butterfield when I was twenty one, and

423
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: he was like, he had signed a record and they

424
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: were writing about him, and I went, he got a record, man,

425
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: I can do that. I could get a record deal. Now.

426
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: I'd been fooling around with tape all my life, playing

427
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 2: with it, never thinking anything like we think now or

428
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: did in the sixties or the seventies to days, none

429
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: of that even existed as an idea in the fifties.

430
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: You mentioned about these shows in sports arenas, Okay, because

431
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: I know that you're a stickler for sound and engineering,

432
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: just because I'm from an era in which you know,

433
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: big speakers and backline and those things. How were those

434
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: shows able to translate sonically in a large sports arena

435
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: with what I would assume was inferior sound.

436
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: Well, an audience was generally they weren't big, big, huge

437
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: sports are anything like the Sportatorium, is what I said.

438
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: The Sportatorium was like this funky kind of I think

439
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: it held like twenty five hundred people or something, and

440
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: it was a place where they had boxing matches and

441
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: they had music, and so it was small enough that

442
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 2: you know, you could sing through your amplifier. And the

443
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: volume levels were totally different. There were nothing like rock

444
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: and roll volume levels. The first big rock show I

445
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: saw was, I mean where I went, Holy Cow, look

446
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: at that. Was Paul Revere and the Raiders at Chicago.

447
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: They were playing to nineteen thousand people and they had

448
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: two voices of the theater five foot by five foot

449
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: speaker boxes, one on each side of the stage, and

450
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: we were just going, oh, look at that. And of

451
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: course you couldn't hear a word. And the shows were like,

452
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: you know, it was like those Frank Sinatra shows where

453
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: everybody was just screaming and passing out stuff like that,

454
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: and so you didn't hear anything.

455
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: He's wondering about that, because I know that's why the

456
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: Beatles stopped doing shows, because they're like you can't hear

457
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: us anyway.

458
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: Well, the Beatles stopped doing shows because they thought they

459
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: were going to be assassinated.

460
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was about to say, you were there

461
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: for that mighty argument. I'll get to that.

462
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they thought they were going to be killed. But

463
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: like if you look at the Shea Stadium show, you know,

464
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: like the way I see this, that Shay Stadiums show,

465
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: I go, well, look at that. They're on second base.

466
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: There are put one hundred and twenty feet away from

467
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: the audience, and look, there's three bookshelf speakers. There's one

468
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: on the ground named here, there's one there, and there's

469
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: a little under the front, you know, and you just go,

470
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: what were these people thinking?

471
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: I can't hear them?

472
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: You couldn't hear anything. So that was like one of

473
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: the things I'm proud of that I actually worked hard on,

474
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: was we went from that era to building the pas

475
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: to getting the stuff that everybody enjoys right now in

476
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: your monitor. Yeah, the flight for you know, in your monitors. Man,

477
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: I spent three hundred thousand dollars developing those you know,

478
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: oh wait you literally yeah, you know, speak well, very interesting.

479
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: So there was this guy in California was kind of nuts.

480
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: Who Stevie Wonder had hired, and uh, he had. Stevie

481
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: was playing. He had one little earpiece, and it was

482
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: the way they figured out how to do it was

483
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: you had a little transformer and a little FM transmitter

484
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: and you made this custom aarpiece and one earpiece. And

485
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: then he stopped doing it, and it just sat there

486
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: for five years. And I'd taken a lot of time

487
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: off in the eighties. I thought my career was over

488
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: there from eighty three to like eighty eight or something

489
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: like that, and was convinced, Hey, no, man, come back.

490
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: You know you can do shows and everything. So I

491
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: was doing shows and when I got back, the size

492
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: of the monitors on the stage or the size of

493
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: an ice box laying on the floor. And I had

494
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: a twenty two year old kid running my monitors and

495
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: it was so loud. I fired him. I got hired

496
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: another kid, fired him, and then I got an audiologist

497
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: out and I put a body cavity, one of those

498
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: plastic things, but started measuring and I said, you see, man,

499
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: it's one hundred and twenty one dB out here. You're fired.

500
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: And I tested everybody's hearing, and I tested we had

501
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: a crew and everything. It was like fifty five people

502
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: and we were doing these big, big outdoor shows. And

503
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: I tested everybody's hearing, from the truck and bus drivers

504
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: to the musicians, and the guy that had the best

505
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: hearing was my house mixer. The guy had the second

506
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: best hearing was my monitor mixer. I had the third

507
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: best hearing, and everybody else was deaf. They had just

508
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: dropped at four thousand, kid, just nobody could hear any siblings,

509
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: nobody could hear anything from all this damage. So we

510
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: went and found this guy. We built five FM transmitters.

511
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: We had separate power units because if the Feds caught us,

512
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: they would take the power cool so we had Japanese

513
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: Japanese FM radios for our transmitter receivers because they had

514
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: a lower FM frequency than we had here. And we

515
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: broadcast the shows. I mean it was a three block area,

516
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: and so what was cool about it was if you

517
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: were one of the bus drivers, you could turn on

518
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: the radio and listen to the show. What was dangerous

519
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: about it was all the sound checks were being broadcast.

520
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: Every time we turned the thing on. We were broadcasting

521
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: about three block area.

522
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: You couldn't talk about last night's.

523
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: Meal or hey, what the you know? What are you?

524
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: You know you had I mean it was like, we're

525
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: on the air and we could really be fine. Seriously,

526
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: so we snuck around and did that.

527
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: Oh wait, so you had to even though it was

528
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: for monitor purposes use FCC.

529
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: Well, no, we were illegally broadcasting FM.

530
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: Radio radio.

531
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: We had five pirate radio stations stacked up so each

532
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: guy could hear. And and I this is this is

533
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: how gets invented. It's always simple and really dumb. And

534
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: and so here we are, and we're setting this up

535
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: every night and we're broadcasting. And we're the first band

536
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: that ever went out wearing ear monitors. And the ear

537
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: monitors were made out of clay and they really hurt.

538
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: And we went out there and I remember the first

539
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: night I went out on a stage in front of

540
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: like eighteenth people in ear monitors, the whole bands, and

541
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: it were the first band, and it was like kind

542
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: of dangerous. But then you know, then we went, okay,

543
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: now we gotta like process the sound. You know, everything's

544
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: got to sound good. Oh, now we got the sound processed.

545
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: Now we gotta figure out how this transmission stuff is

546
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 2: gonna work. And then some A guy named Marty Garcia

547
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: came in and said, FM transmitters, are you guys nuts?

548
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: Let me show you how to do this, and here's

549
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: the money, man build it and went from there in

550
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: the ears yeah in ears.

551
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 9: Wow, did you get any thank yous from the neighborhood,

552
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 9: Like anybody ever come up to you? Like, Man, that

553
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 9: show was awesome last night, I said on my.

554
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: Couching, you know, and we never got busted. Oh, you know,

555
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: we got away with it. I still have these things, man,

556
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: they're in my warehouse suits. Like it's like, you know,

557
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: it's like the first space capsule or something that say

558
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: you look at it, just go. But you know, it's

559
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: like tape echo and the stuff less Paul worked on.

560
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: All of these ideas start from you know, you kind

561
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: of go like, I gotta get this done. Honey had

562
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: me that vacuum cleaner. I'm gonna hook this thing up

563
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: and blow that thing out there and turn this on

564
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: and make this organ work.

565
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: You know.

566
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just you do what you gotta do. And

567
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 2: and it's, uh, you know, I just did it because

568
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: I needed it. I didn't do it do it to

569
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: you know, to start to start a company or do

570
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: anything like that. I just knew that I wanted to

571
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: protect my hearing for life.

572
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: Well that's the show, Leason, gentlemen.

573
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 2: I brought an out audiologist and we're gonna test everybody, now, Larry,

574
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: come on, we need that.

575
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: Did you develop it to the point where it was like,

576
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: did you patent it? Did you sell it to Shore?

577
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: No? No, I gave it to Marty and look there

578
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: are you know, it's like all this kind of stuff.

579
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: A lot of people were thinking about it, but I

580
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: was the guy who went like, I can't work in

581
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: this situation. You guys got to stop this. This is nuts,

582
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, if you're on a stage and

583
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: it's one hundred and twenty GB, you can't sing, you

584
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: can't think, you can't rest, you can't sleep after the show,

585
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: you can't hear the next day. You know, you know

586
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: all that. So that's that had to be fixed. So

587
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: that was all. And I remember kind of thinking, like,

588
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: you know, it took off really quickly people, you know,

589
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: right away people wanted to know about it, and the

590
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: Marty started a company and started you know, doing your

591
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: inn your monitors, and the last in your monitor story

592
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: was like so now it's like nineteen ninety two or

593
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: ninety three or something, and the Dead want to have

594
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: an inner monitor system and they know that we had

595
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: used we'd been using it now for four years, you know.

596
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: They said, well, we want to work with you guys.

597
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: Let's go do ten shows together or something. And I said, okay.

598
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: So in my Innure monitor system with the band, I

599
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: have a little foot switch where I can like step

600
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: on the switch and it takes my voice out of

601
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: the PA, but I can talk to the sound guy

602
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: or the light guy, or I can say, hey, you know,

603
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: there's some guy down here. There's two guys in a

604
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: fight in the front row. You need to come fix that,

605
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: or you know, if something's wrong or go to the

606
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: bridge or forget the next song or whatever. Yeah, And

607
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: it's it's so weird because you know, it's like I'm

608
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: talking to you and that's gonna yeah, well all right,

609
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: then we're gonna go. You see when you're doing it,

610
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: and you like you came to realize people they don't

611
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: they don't even notice. It's like weird. You can do

612
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: all this year. So that's that's the band leader control.

613
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: So the first show doing with the Dead at some

614
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: football stadium there's eighty thousand people. We go out, they

615
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: immediately invite me to come out and jam. I go

616
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: out and put on my ear in ear monitors and

617
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: they're all arguing with each other while somebody's playing a

618
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: solo stuff. Listen, man, you just this giant conversation. Everybody.

619
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 2: Everybody's got their own pedal, everybody's got their own thing,

620
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: nobody's listening to anybody. They're just like, it was just

621
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 2: all my blog. You know, I just went, man, how

622
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 2: can you guys do that? Sir?

623
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: You've literally described that is crazy?

624
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 10: Steve, was that in Buffalo by any chance?

625
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: Uh?

626
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 2: That was the last gig of that tour?

627
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 10: Okay a show?

628
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, yeah, that was. That was a really amazing run.

629
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 10: It was like ninety one, ninety ninety two maybe.

630
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 2: I think there's ninety two, you know, because.

631
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was in the parking lot during the opening.

632
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: And what were you doing?

633
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: A grateful show?

634
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: You know, those shows were really funny, and bands that

635
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: played with a grateful dead usually got shunned, you know,

636
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: like I sting had done it before I had done it,

637
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 2: and they said, yeah, you know, like there'd be eleven

638
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: thousand people in the stadium while Sting was doing his set. Well,

639
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: that wasn't gonna happen with me, and so, uh, we

640
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: went out and we just started and we just started

641
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: with like four or five hits, and by the third hit,

642
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: people just running into the stadium and by the time

643
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: our set was over, the whole stadium would be singing

644
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: along and then we'd turn it over to Jerry.

645
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 8: So did they figure?

646
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 9: It's interesting because you said when you got with them,

647
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 9: it was kind of like a two for one deal,

648
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 9: like on top of getting the band, they get the

649
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 9: any our monitors. Is that what most bands were thinking

650
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 9: at that time about guy.

651
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: No No, they had they had got a system. They

652
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: wanted they wanted to see how we used it. They

653
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 2: wanted to learn how, They wanted the best. They wanted

654
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: to learn how to do it, you know, and see

655
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: see how it worked. And that was you know, uh

656
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: real comment. I remember Guns N' Roses came by. Oh okay,

657
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 2: you wanted to see how because we were the guys

658
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 2: at the monitors, you know.

659
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: And that's weird because I've I've thought that it was

660
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: invented because by the time we started using it in

661
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: like two thousand, I felt like, well, okay, this is

662
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: probably like three years old already. I felt like just

663
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: came around like yeah, nineteen ninety seven or something.

664
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 2: No, I was like ten eleven years old by then.

665
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: But you know, you have to develop that stuff. But

666
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: for me, I think because the less you know, and

667
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: being around him when I was little, and like you

668
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: were saying, well, did you know, I didn't know he

669
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: was a genius. I didn't know anything about him except

670
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: that he he was like this great, great guitarist and

671
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: he was really funny. Every show he did was always

672
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: sold out, and uh, you know, he always had somebody

673
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: come and sit in with him. So one night I'm

674
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 2: in the club and tal Farlow comes into the club

675
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: and it's like a gunfighter cutting session, you know. I

676
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: remember tal Farlow's here and Les Paul's right in the

677
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: middle of some great solo and he just puts the

678
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: handkerchief over his hand and he's just playing in so

679
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: cow can't steal his licks. That Yeah, man, man, I

680
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: just you know, pulled the handkerchief without you know, it just.

681
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: Nonchalantly.

682
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: He must have practiced it a thousand times, you know.

683
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: But but that's what it was like, hanging out with

684
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: him and so I got so lucky to be around

685
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: the technology, the idea of recording, the idea of promoting

686
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: a single, the idea having fun at a show and

687
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: it's a jam session. The cats are all coming by

688
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: and they're all going to play, and so, you know,

689
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: Charles Mingus was at the House of Milwaukee Red and

690
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: they were just adults. They were just people, you know,

691
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: hanging out and listening to the tape recorder and drinking

692
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: and laughing and having a good time, you know. And

693
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: so that was the way I saw life, you know,

694
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 2: when I started. And then we took that and moved

695
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 2: it to Texas, and we were considered communists, you know. Uh,

696
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: you know, my dad was arrested for having a race

697
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: party at his laboratory, you know, because he had black

698
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: technicians and white technicians working together in a laboratory. Two

699
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: of the technicians went on to become pathologists, and they

700
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: were arrested, photographed, handcuffed picture on the front page of

701
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: the Dallas Morning News and he was described as like

702
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: a swanky, you know, kind of sleazy, swanky doctor having

703
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: a race party and they were working, they were it

704
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 2: was like three o'clock in the afternoon on December, probably

705
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: December December twenty third, the lab Christmas Party. Well you know,

706
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: raist racist, you know, and and.

707
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 10: Uh, I want to be a sleazy swanky doctor.

708
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: You are you are? You are? Yeah? Well you know

709
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: Swanky's good.

710
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: So has have has Less left you any of his

711
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: like artifacts? Like did he give you your first guitar?

712
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: Or do you have like an amp that he oh

713
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: this tape recorder?

714
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: Kids, Yeah, I don't have it, don't have it. I

715
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: have a guitar. I have a one, a Gibson one

716
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 2: seventy five that he gave me in what I used

717
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: to steal from him as guitar picks. And it was

718
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 2: a big joke because the well, the first time I

719
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: went to see Less play at Fat Tuesdays. You know,

720
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 2: he worked at Fat Tuesdays for he stayed in New

721
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: York for thirty years. He had his heart attack at

722
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 2: sixty three and when he was sixty three years old,

723
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: and then he played until he was ninety three. So

724
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen him in a while. I mean I

725
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: hadn't seen him in like seven or eight years. And

726
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: I've been on the road and I was in New

727
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 2: York and he was playing and I went, I'm gonna

728
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: go see Less. So I go to see him and

729
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: I go say hi, and come on up here, kid,

730
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: come on, you know, come on play, come on and

731
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: play something, you know, And I said, well, gosh, I

732
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: didn't bring my guitar, which he thought was just awful

733
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 2: that I was so dumb not to bring my guitar.

734
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: But on top of the piano it was this white

735
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: Less Paul Deluxe model with three gold pickups and just

736
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 2: beautifully just here take this. And he gives me that

737
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: guitar and I didn't have a pick, hands me a pick.

738
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 2: I get the guitar, plug it in and we start

739
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: to play. And I noticed that the volume control doesn't work.

740
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 2: It's totally out of tune. The tuning pegs don't work,

741
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: nothing works on it, you know. So I got the

742
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: stooge guitar, right, you bring your own acts next time.

743
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: And then yeah, so there I am, you know. And

744
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 2: then I looked down at the pick that I borrowed

745
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: from him, and it was made out of plexiglass and

746
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: it had some sandpaper turned at a certain angle that

747
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: had been glued on. It was a handmade pick. So

748
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: every time I would see him try and get some

749
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: of his picks, and he didn't like it, you know.

750
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: And I finally I was doing a show like this

751
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: that was being filmed, and he was sitting right here,

752
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, Less is eighty six years old,

753
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: and you know he's such an interesting man. He's always

754
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: working any thing. So I bet you he's got a

755
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: pocket full of custom made picks right now, come on,

756
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: let's let's see. And he pulled him out and put

757
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: him on the table bit and I just scoomed up.

758
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: So I have this beautiful collection and his handmade picks

759
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: and one of his guitars. And but the best thing

760
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: was I used to talk to him at least once

761
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: a month, and he'd call me up and start talking

762
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: to me, and I wouldn't even know what he was

763
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: talking about. He'd be talking about digital this and digital that,

764
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 2: and I'd be going, well, gee, I don't know. Less.

765
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: He was so far ahead of of everything and everybody

766
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: and that. But it was all simple. His ideas were

767
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: all real simple.

768
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: So I know that the city of San Francisco. I

769
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 1: was about to say, we do have to start discussing

770
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: your actual music there, I actually stay off topic, out

771
00:46:53,920 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: of your your discography forever, but you eventually, uh migrate

772
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: to San Francisco, which is we're considering that even though

773
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: there's psychedelic leanings and a lot of your music, I

774
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily peg you as part of that dead kind

775
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: of jam. Yeah, kind of lucky, even though there are

776
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: elements of that and and a lot of your music.

777
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like the witty writing and all that stuff.

778
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: But you were straight blues. So how did you get

779
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 1: into the Bill Graham circle? And more specifically I know that, well,

780
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: your first record with Chuck Berry? How did that even happen?

781
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: Because I know that Chuck is notory. Yeah, I was

782
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: about to say, I know you have five hours of

783
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: Chuck Berry's for those who don't know. And this is

784
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: even from my experience of seeing Chuck and person as

785
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: a kid. He never sometimes he would meet his band

786
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: maybe five minutes before going on stage. And similar to

787
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: that the Booty Collins James Brown story. Hey, you already

788
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: know my material, so just hit it, like Chuck is

789
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: notorious for just flying into town and just all right,

790
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: hit it and you're supposed to follow it. What tell

791
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: us a Chuck Berry story? Please?

792
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: Well, Chuck Berry, Yes, my best Chuck Berry story is

793
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: the one I should have told Keith Richards before he

794
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: made the movie. We walk off the stage and I say,

795
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: if you ever fucking do that to me again, you motherfucker,

796
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: get your own fucking band, get your own fucking amplifier,

797
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: and get your own people. Man, fuck you. I'm never

798
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: gonna back you up again. Guarantino. And then from that

799
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 2: time on he was great.

800
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 8: What did he do?

801
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: What he was Chuck Berry?

802
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 2: Broll No, no, no, there are two guys that used

803
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 2: to do this trick. So now this is a Chuck

804
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: Berry and the Lightning Hopkins story and a San Francisco story. Yes,

805
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: So I dropped acid in Madison in nineteen sixty three.

806
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: It was lysurgic acid. It was pure.

807
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: I was at that show too.

808
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 2: And that was before anybody knew what it was or

809
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: what was really going on, and.

810
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: So you were wing your time and everything.

811
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: So my first trip was poetry, Marvin Gay, Robbie Shankar, literature,

812
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: mind expanding consciousness, do anything you know before there were hippies. Okay,

813
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: Then I go to So I'm in Chicago and we're

814
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: hearing about San Francisco, these gigs and San Francis light show.

815
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: Butterfield's out there, man, and he's like making money, and

816
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 2: they're playing to like eleven hundred people a night, not

817
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five US. And I'm working in

818
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 2: a nightclub in Chicago from nine o'clock at night till

819
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning, six days a week, making

820
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five dollars a week. And I'm

821
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: thinking to myself, I got to go to California. Man,

822
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: there's you know, eleven hundred people, five hundred dollars a night.

823
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: Glad I'm going, you know, so, so I'm you know,

824
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: the beat coming from there was just huge. And then

825
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 2: all the bands were coming through Chicago. Chess Records was there,

826
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 2: and the Rolling Stones had been through town, and we

827
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: were doing this blue We were in this great blues

828
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 2: scene that was just magical for a few years. When

829
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: I say magical, it's like, hey, as soon as we

830
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 2: finished doing this radio show, Holling Wolf's playing across the street, man,

831
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 2: let's go, Hubert's with him, Let's go, you know, and

832
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 2: Muddy's going to be here, and Butter's over here, and

833
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: we're over here, and they're over here and this and that.

834
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 2: It was just like that for like about three years,

835
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: and then it disappeared San Francisco. So I go to

836
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 2: San Francisco and I get out there and I'm living

837
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: in my Volkswagen bus. Now things have gone down. I

838
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: tried to go to music school at the University of Texas.

839
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: They wouldn't accept me. They wouldn't teach me how to

840
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: read or write music. So I left. I got to

841
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 2: California and I had five bucks in my pocket, and

842
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: I went to see Butterfield play at the at the Fillmore,

843
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 2: and I saw what the Fillmore was and I went, Okay,

844
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: I gotta do it here. This is great, man, that

845
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: should be me up there. You know, I want to

846
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: go do that. And I got a gig at the

847
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: Matrix playing bass for Lightning Hopkins for ten dollars a night.

848
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: And this ten dollars was like a million dollars to me. Man,

849
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 2: that was that three dollars for a tank of gas

850
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: in the Volkswagen bus and food for a week. You know,

851
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: I needed this money. And it's Lightning Hopkins. So I'm

852
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: playing bass with Lightning, and as you know, Lightning plays

853
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 2: like thirteen and a half bar blues and then fourteen

854
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: barb b losing the ten barb bl loues and he

855
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 2: kind of kind of watching them. I'm playing with him,

856
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: and I'm kind of doing real good, you know. Now

857
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm kind of beginning to play. He goes, wait a minute,

858
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Everybody stop, Nobody do

859
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 2: nothing but me, and there's just him and me on

860
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: the stage. I mean, you know, it's the most embarrassing,

861
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: emulating moment in my life. And I needed that ten dollars.

862
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah I did. I kept the gig, you know, and

863
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 2: and Chuck Berry started doing that to the band and

864
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: I just couldn't tolerate that. And later, like five or

865
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: six years later, I was at home by myself and

866
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: I was watching Austin City Limits and Lightning Hopkins is

867
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 2: playing a stratocaster with a wah wah pedal, just doing

868
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: this show hell in it with this great blues band

869
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: behind him and they're just ripping it up. And all

870
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 2: of a sudden, he goes, hold, hold, hold, wait minute,

871
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: everybody stop. Nobody do nothing but me, and I went, oh,

872
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: it's a riff. It's like, let's have a hand for

873
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: what's your name, Welcome to the blues club, you know,

874
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: And so when Chuck did that. You know, I had

875
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 2: done so many gigs with him, but first gig I

876
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 2: did with Chuck Berry was like, went like this, Bill

877
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: Graham came to me, he says, and you're right. We

878
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: got First of all, we got to San Francisco and

879
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 2: I just went, what the hell is this? You know,

880
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: the Grateful Dead were like standing around for fifteen minutes

881
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: and they do like a bad version of in the

882
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: Midnight Hour for twenty minutes and wasn't good, but you know,

883
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 2: twenty minutes of like come on man.

884
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: You were sober watching them?

885
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah gee look at the time, you know,

886
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 11: so it was all the bands were like, uh, they

887
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 11: weren't really good.

888
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: Bands, and they were like guys who'd been playing acoustic

889
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 2: guitar who decided they were going to get some beatle

890
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: boots and a groovy coat and a scarf and grow

891
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: their hair long and have a rock band and they're

892
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: going to be rock stars. So I got out there.

893
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: I'd been working in Chicago, where Junior Wells would steal

894
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: your gig if he sat in, if he could, you know,

895
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody had to be really good, and I

896
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 2: was like on time, great sets, everything was really good.

897
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 2: So I was like the first real professional band in

898
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: the scene.

899
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: So right now you're destroying the myth of what we

900
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: thought that the San Francisco Musician was about. Like you're

901
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: just saying that they were mediocre at best or just.

902
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 2: The band, right, The bands were a social phenomena. No, no,

903
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 2: And you know, the Jeffer Airplane was kind of interesting.

904
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: They did some things good and then other things are

905
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 2: just like insufferably boring, you know. And and so it

906
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: was what I finally realized was I'm standing there, going,

907
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: what is this? You know, what's going on here? And

908
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: I finally went, it's a social phenomena. This is like,

909
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 2: this is about acid, This is about an awakening, this

910
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: is about a renaissance. This is about a moment in

911
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: time that's like happens maybe every three or four hundred years.

912
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: It's a music and music is the the the hook

913
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: they're hanging it on. And so I like that once

914
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: I understood it, because I went, I get it. It's

915
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 2: a social phenomena.

916
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: But I like that.

917
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: I like that, But I want to change things. I

918
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: want to see the world change too. I'm I don't

919
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: want to have a crew cut anymore. I don't want

920
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: to go to you know, some company and get trained

921
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 2: for six weeks and then work there for the rest

922
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 2: of my life, you know, and do that that fifties

923
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: early sixties thing. I want a life, a much different life.

924
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: And so, you know, the expansion, the mind expansion that

925
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: took place, and then it filtered into the music, and

926
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden things started getting good. And

927
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: what was hip was so we go to Bill Graham

928
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: and go, hey, man, you gotta get James Cotton out here.

929
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: You got to get Junior Wells out here. You got

930
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 2: to get Howland Wolf out here. You got to get

931
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 2: Rolling Kirk out here. You should get Miles Davis to

932
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: come here. You know, Johnny Cash should come here and play.

933
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 2: You should have you know, and we just started giving

934
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 2: him names.

935
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: You were the influence that brought them out, because a

936
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 1: lot of us were like, no, a lot.

937
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: Of us were, you know, But I was like, yeah,

938
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: I was the guy who went and picked up Holland

939
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: Wolf and my bus. You know when he arrived at

940
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: the airport. You know, James and his band stayed at

941
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: my house, you know, when they came to town. But

942
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: and you know, I was there the first night BB

943
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: King played, I was there. I backed up John Lee

944
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: Hooker on his first night. I did Chuck Berry Show

945
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: and the BB King show at the Fillmore. You know,

946
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 2: they talk about it and bb cried that night and

947
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 2: all that stuff. It was pretty amazing here. It was

948
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: like everybody was just BB King's going to be here,

949
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: you know, And I'm opening for BB King and uh I,

950
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: you know, I do my sound checking stuff and then

951
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: we're getting ready to play and I noticed, you know,

952
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: BB King's guitar tech has put BB King's loose seal

953
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: on his guitar stand on the stage during my set,

954
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: and they get a little spotlight on it. You know,

955
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 2: what's this? You know. I don't like that, you know.

956
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: So I'm playing doing as good as I can because

957
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: Bbe's in the house and I break a string and

958
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: I go and I go, fuck it. He's going to

959
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: put his guitar on the picked it up, plugged it in.

960
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: Hey this listen, I'm in competition with BB King. I

961
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: want slot. You know, that's the way music is. You know,

962
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 2: there's no Once you play in Chicago, you learn very

963
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: quickly this is serious business, you know, And if somebody's

964
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 2: fucking around with you in your stage, you know, Yeah,

965
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: But I wasn't looking to until I broke the string. However,

966
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 2: when I picked up Lucile and plunged it in and

967
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: looked at the controls, I went, what the boom? You know,

968
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: it was just totally basy and everything, and and you

969
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: know it was one of those stereo Gibson things, you know,

970
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: it's never used. And then I got the tone and

971
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: I had a note, and the guitar was so delicately

972
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: set up the bridge collapsed. It just went pop and

973
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 2: the strings went flat and and uh and I pulled

974
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 2: it back up and strings back on it and kind

975
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: of like ended the set and got left the building.

976
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 8: As that's going on.

977
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 9: How long is this process that that the audience is watching?

978
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 9: You like grabbed the guitar.

979
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure you didn't let the audience know.

980
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no no, that just was like

981
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: it broke a string, put the guitar down, here's another one,

982
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: picked it up.

983
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: But good night.

984
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: Bb I saw Biby come out and do a show

985
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 2: one time and break a string and uh, reach into

986
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: his well. First of all, he broke a string while

987
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: he was singing, and he just kept singing, never looked

988
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 2: at it. He went down here and he like took

989
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: the string off, and I'm not making any of this up.

990
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: Reached into his pocket and pulled out a string in

991
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 2: a package and took the string out, and he's singing

992
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: the whole time. He put it in here, and he

993
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: just kept doing this and then he went bang and

994
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: off he went, you know, and it was.

995
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: Like without looking once, he just put the string on.

996
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, man, I to him. It was in

997
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 2: a little club and Sun Valley, Idaho, was sitting right

998
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 2: there like that, and I just went, how many times?

999
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the handkerchief trip? How many times

1000
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 2: do you have to do that before you can or

1001
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 2: have that happen?

1002
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: You know? Have you ever tried to do that?

1003
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: Uh? No?

1004
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: So I know that I know that you had your

1005
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: eyes on Paul Butterfield's slot. You know that I want that.

1006
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: But one thing you didn't mention was the desire to

1007
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: get a record deal, which I'm wondering, why did you

1008
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: choose San fran over Los Angeles and how did record

1009
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: label start calling?

1010
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: So I had a record deal with Barry Goldberg. We

1011
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: had the Goldberg Miller blues band in Chicago, and and

1012
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: we got. He had a swanky, sleazy manager, Steve Yeah, yeah,

1013
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 2: and uh swanky and and uh. We were given a

1014
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 2: day and a half to make a record. And while

1015
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,439
Speaker 2: we're making the record, some guy came in and was going, yeah,

1016
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 2: you guys, you know, you guys should be doing some

1017
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 2: Jerry Lee Lewiston's. You know, he's trying to tell us

1018
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 2: what to record and what to do and everything. The

1019
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 2: engineers hated us. The earphone was one of his little black,

1020
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: hard rubber things, you know, with one side and a

1021
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 2: big pole coming out of it. We made this record

1022
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: and went to New York and we were on the

1023
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 2: Hulla Blue Show with the Supremes and the Four Tops. Ok,

1024
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: and we got We did the show, and then we

1025
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: stayed in New York and went into the A night

1026
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: club here right after the Young Rascals left, and we

1027
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 2: saw the whole New York scene went back to Chicago.

1028
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: The whole Chicago scene was gone, just in two months.

1029
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 2: It just disappeared. Because what had happened was Woof and

1030
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 2: Muddy had gotten gigs in colleges and now they could

1031
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 2: make a whole lot more money than playing in nightclubs.

1032
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: Their careers were over. When we were all working in Chicago,

1033
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 2: they had had their hits. It was done. They were

1034
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: back in Chicago and they were just working, you know,

1035
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 2: in nightclubs. That's the only work they got. And now

1036
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: they were the whole scene just dispersed. So and I

1037
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: had a gig playing rhythm guitar and Buddy Guy's band

1038
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: and for three weeks, and you had to have a

1039
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 2: shot of bourbon before each set, and there were like

1040
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: seven sets a night when I lasted like three weeks

1041
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 2: and just a buddy a kid, and I went and

1042
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 2: I got to San Francisco. So what happened in San

1043
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: Francisco was okay, it had a record deal. I realized

1044
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things really quickly, and I had

1045
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: gotten out of that deal forcefully. I made them fire

1046
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 2: me in Chicago and publicly because I figured I was

1047
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 2: going to have a contractual problem with Berry's manager later,

1048
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 2: which I did, but I kicked his butt. So it

1049
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: was so I went to to uh San Francisco and

1050
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 2: was there for about six or seven months. Did the

1051
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: Chuck Berry thing, which just came up out of nowhere,

1052
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 2: like hey, Chuck Berry's coming to town, made him rehearse

1053
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: for two days.

1054
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he did that.

1055
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, what he did that was upsetting was he rehearsed

1056
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 2: for two days, and we hung for two days, had

1057
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 2: a great time, and then five minutes before the show started,

1058
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: a friend has showed up. They went out and got

1059
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 2: high on some smack or something, and he came in

1060
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 2: and did the whole show. Like at halftime. It was

1061
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: just that very slow set, and that was disappointing, you know.

1062
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 2: But so now I'm seeing this and now there's a

1063
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 2: feeding frenzy in San Francisco to sign anything that's walking,

1064
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: you know. I mean they were given thirty thousand dollars

1065
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 2: to anybody.

1066
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: Set and.

1067
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: Ten times what it was in Seattle. It really so.

1068
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 2: I mean I had fourteen record companies giving me offers,

1069
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: fourteen of them. So now I'm in a feeding frenzy,

1070
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 2: and I got everything's going the way I wanted to

1071
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: go because I'd had a little taste of the record business,

1072
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: and I learned very quickly that I wanted to complete

1073
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: artistic control over everything, every picture, every cover, every album,

1074
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 2: everything they said, anything they put out, any music I did.

1075
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 2: I had to own all the publishing all of it.

1076
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 2: I had to own my songwriting. No, you can't have

1077
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: any of that. Wow. And not only that, I need

1078
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 2: enough money in a no cut contract to make five

1079
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 2: albums because I got to learn how to do this.

1080
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: Thank you?

1081
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: And how did you learn to?

1082
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 2: Yes? I was like, Wow, when you run a band

1083
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: from the time you're twelve years old, life is really simple,

1084
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 2: you know, like the things I just told you, You know,

1085
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: when you talked to brilliant musicians and they go, come, man,

1086
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 2: how did you How are you so smart to know

1087
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 2: you should keep your publishing because I kept track of

1088
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 2: the money, clown. You know what, you think somebody's gonna

1089
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 2: take care of that for you know, nobody ever takes

1090
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: care of that, you know. And so like if somebody said, hey, man,

1091
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 2: we want you to come to Streetport, Louisiana and play

1092
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: a gig. We're gonna pay you one hundred and twenty

1093
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 2: five dollars, I'd say, well, that'll cover the gas. You know,

1094
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: it's gonna be two thousand dollars or whatever. I mean.

1095
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 12: I just and I always said, like I always said,

1096
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 12: I'm not going to like gouge anybody, but I'm not

1097
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 12: going to be taking advantage if I just want to

1098
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 12: be on kind of a little win win situation for

1099
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 12: everybody except with the record company.

1100
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: And I had a friend who was a prosecuting attorney

1101
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 2: and San Francisco, and he didn't care about being a

1102
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 2: music industry lawyer because all music industry lawyers work for

1103
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 2: record companies. Rather than I don't worry about that. I'll

1104
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 2: go take care of Jimmy Hendricks. I'll get him signed

1105
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: up here and everything will be great, you know. Whatever

1106
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: that happened all the time. My guy was didn't care.

1107
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 2: And I went to him and I said, this is

1108
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: like slavery. They want to you know, but you know,

1109
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: if I sell a million records, they're going to want

1110
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 2: to give me a car, you know, you know, four

1111
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in cash and stuff. This is the way

1112
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 2: it's treated, you know. And I want to own everything

1113
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 2: and these are the things I want. And oh we

1114
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 2: just started and they said, well nobody gets that. And

1115
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 2: he said, well I don't want it. I'm not signing.

1116
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't. What I did was said no for

1117
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 2: nine months. And it's like the term of pregnancy, you know,

1118
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 2: it took nine months. It just nothing, no, no, he's

1119
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 2: not not interested. And I had guys come in to

1120
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 2: see me and asking me to do all kinds of

1121
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 2: stupid things. And every time a record company would say like, well,

1122
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 2: hey man, why don't you come on over to the

1123
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 2: studio tomorrow morning. We'd like to cut some tracks. See

1124
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 2: how you guys do in the studio and go. You

1125
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 2: expect me to carry my gear from this? You just

1126
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 2: saw what I do, and you want me to come

1127
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 2: over and you want to test me. You go back

1128
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 2: to Hollywood and till the president of the record company

1129
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 2: if he wants to talk to me, here's my number,

1130
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: you know, and I.

1131
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: Have Everyone was a suit.

1132
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: Everybody was a switter, and anyone that was like hip

1133
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 2: because you hear people are like, I'm so passionate about music.

1134
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: But were they all just suits?

1135
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 2: No, they were all suits, and they were all husted.

1136
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: And we really began to look at everybody from las

1137
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: kind of like a weasel and a rat. And somebody

1138
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 2: was trying to steal everything. And I did my contract.

1139
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 2: I got my contract done, and I brought my contract

1140
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 2: down to a community band meeting at the Carousel Ballroom

1141
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: and gave it to everybody and said, this is what

1142
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: you need to get. So there was this kind of

1143
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 2: community going on. We had our newspapers and our poster

1144
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: art and our shows, and we were we were inventing

1145
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 2: it all. It was all coming from San Francisco. La

1146
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: wasn't turning out anything except pop crap. You know, come

1147
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 2: to San Francisco. Here's some flowers in your hair, you know,

1148
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And we were like beginning to

1149
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 2: go out. And so when we would come to your town,

1150
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 2: it was like we were carrying the culture on a platter.

1151
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 2: Here we are, here's the culture. Here's what it is.

1152
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 2: Here's the light show. Excuse us while we jam on,

1153
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 2: fly like an eagle for an hour, you know. And

1154
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 2: it just that's what it turned into. And it grew

1155
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 2: and grew and grew and grew, and people came from

1156
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 2: all over the world. So there was a huge awakening

1157
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 2: and it happened in San Francisco, and it happened around

1158
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 2: psychedelic drugs, really, and it happened in an area where

1159
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: there was a lot of leeway for artists and bohemians

1160
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 2: and poets, and you know, San Francisco is a really

1161
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: great place. And then it.

1162
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: Were you the loan Cynic in that whole atmosphere. Yeah,

1163
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 1: for a while I was down h Street and people

1164
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: just put a flower in your.

1165
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: Lapion, Yeah out like I mean I was, I was.

1166
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 2: I was a cynic about the bands. I sort of

1167
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 2: regret a lot of what I said about a lot

1168
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 2: of these people I have now known for fifty years

1169
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 2: and they're still playing, you know, But I used to go,

1170
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 2: this is just such nonsense.

1171
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: Well, I know you're saying it now in hindsight, but

1172
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: were you that honest back when you were doing press

1173
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: sixty eight, sixty nine to seventy, like, yeah, yeah, Stone whatever, you.

1174
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 2: Know, like, oh no, no, it was there was no

1175
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: Sly Stone whatever.

1176
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: Well, okay, that was my.

1177
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,759
Speaker 2: I was in the studio. Sly was cutting his tracks

1178
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 2: and I never heard rhythm tracks like that in my life.

1179
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:26,879
Speaker 2: Just the whole building was just doing it. I opened

1180
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 2: for Sly one time, another hard gig. This was This

1181
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 2: was when Sly was healthy and he was okay, oh

1182
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 2: damn was and he was unbelievable, is what it was like.

1183
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 2: It was one of the greatest nights you ever saw

1184
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 2: in your life. And I'm down to like playing as

1185
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 2: a power trio, you know. You know, it's like we're

1186
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 2: a power trio now because that's all we could afford.

1187
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 2: We're opening for Sly. You know. It's like nineteen whatever

1188
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 2: it was, and people are going get off the fucking

1189
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 2: stage where Sly and I'm like playing space Cowboys. It's

1190
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 2: really are its I gotta get up the stage. We're

1191
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 2: gonna leave now, so, you know. And I'm watching slide

1192
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 2: play and it's the only time in my life I've

1193
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 2: ever left the building. I said, we have to leave

1194
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 2: the building because the balcony is gonna collapse. Come on,

1195
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 2: we gotta go right now, right now. The balcony was

1196
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 2: doing this, it was going up, you know, and then

1197
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 2: it was kind of going like that, you know. And yeah, seriously,

1198
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 2: I've never seen, never seen that in my line. I'm

1199
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: telling you, man, I had. I left the building because

1200
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 2: I just thought, you know, I took my guys with me.

1201
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 2: I said, we have to leave, we have to get outside.

1202
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 2: This is not this isn't gonna last, you know. But

1203
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: Sly was until the drug so I was like one

1204
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: of the greatest things that ever happened. And I didn't

1205
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 2: like the San Francisco bands, and I didn't like that

1206
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 2: much of the San Francisco music, and I'm you know,

1207
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 2: I like Moby Grape. You know, I kept seeing all

1208
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,839
Speaker 2: the bands, like, you know, when Steven Stills in Buffalo

1209
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 2: Springfield came in, you know, like didn't like them. I

1210
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 2: didn't like that kind of cowboy buckskin gretch guitar thing.

1211
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 2: They were all ego maniacs. No, they didn't really get

1212
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 2: down and play, you know. And the band I did

1213
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: like was The Doors. Oh wow, okay, you know, Doors

1214
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 2: came up and I comeing, Man, that's that's smart man.

1215
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 2: That guys get that little bass thing there, and it's

1216
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 2: real clear and it sounds good, you know, because most

1217
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: of the time it sounded pretty bad, you know. And

1218
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 2: these bands really they didn't have enough experience. I had

1219
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 2: already played you know, a thousand gigs from the you know,

1220
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 2: the seventh grade through college. I mean I had really

1221
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 2: played a lot and was you know, wanted things to

1222
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 2: sound good. You know, sound was a big important part.

1223
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 2: And then you know, when the Dead started like their approach,

1224
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 2: this would be the San Francisco approach to sound. Two

1225
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 2: hundred Macintosh stereo amplifiers hooked up to a bunch of

1226
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 2: speakers stacked right behind the band the temperature behind the

1227
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 2: stage was four hundred and seventy.

1228
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: Degree, you know.

1229
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the approach was like crazy and

1230
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 2: drugged out and too much money and too much stuff.

1231
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 2: And like I looked at all those bands, like they

1232
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 2: all had kind of drug dealers for managers. So they

1233
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 2: had all this money. They were the local guys. I

1234
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 2: was from out of town. I had to make my way.

1235
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 2: I had to you know, do my way. I felt

1236
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: like I personally kept the film Ore Auditorium open for

1237
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 2: Bill Graham. I played their one hundred and twenty times,

1238
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 2: you know. I mean when they needed help, I was

1239
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 2: the guy that had to be you know. But the

1240
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 2: scene just grew and it kept growing and it it

1241
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 2: got better, and it gave me a place where I

1242
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: could do a stake and get a recording contract. My

1243
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 2: concept of a recording contract was like the Beatles or something. Man.

1244
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 2: I was going, Man, I can't wait too get in

1245
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 2: there and make some records. And I'd worked as a

1246
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, janitor at a recording studio in Dallas, and

1247
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 2: I had been ping ponging back and forth and quarter

1248
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 2: inch track tapes, you know, stereo machines for years and

1249
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 2: working on all of this stuff trying to you know,

1250
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 2: get stuff together, but very rarely was able to get

1251
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 2: into a studio. And the studios were crappy, you know.

1252
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 2: They were like four track, and then it was eight track,

1253
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 2: and then it was twelve track, and then it was

1254
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 2: sixteen track, and then it was so getting a record deal.

1255
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 2: Being able to do that, I thought, it's going to

1256
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 2: be really great. And I went down to LA to

1257
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 2: do the first sessions at Capitol Records, and I'm thinking, man,

1258
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm finally sending the deal. I got everything I want.

1259
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 2: These guys are gonna help me produce my record. This

1260
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 2: is going to be really great. Got there and they said, well,

1261
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 2: your studio time starts at midnight, and so, well why

1262
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 2: is that? And they said, well, you know, the studios

1263
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 2: are booked, but we've got you a session at midnight, okay,

1264
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 2: And we man, we'd driven down in the bus, you know,

1265
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 2: with the we had the B three in there, the

1266
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 2: band in there, everything, you know, the Leslie, all our stuff.

1267
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 2: We get in there and set it all up and

1268
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 2: it's about three o'clock in the morning, about time we're

1269
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 2: ready to really start read. You know, I'm too tired,

1270
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 2: but you know, we're set, but we got you know,

1271
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: we got a good drum sound. Let's let's come back

1272
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 2: tomorrow and we'll start, okay, I said, well, it's going

1273
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: to be midnight again. I said, well all right. So

1274
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: we get there at you know, eleven o'clock or and

1275
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: they say you have to move all your equipment from

1276
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,759
Speaker 2: studio beat A studio A because somebody else needs studio.

1277
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 2: So we move it, We set it up, and we

1278
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 2: get ready to record, and the engineering department walks out.

1279
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 8: What now, you walk out walked.

1280
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 2: Out of the building. They just left, and we were

1281
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 2: just standing, what do you mean? They what? So I

1282
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 2: go call my executive producer, John Palladin, you know, and

1283
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 2: I say, you know, I'm here at the studio. This

1284
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 2: is what's happened in the last two days. You can

1285
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 2: have your money back, you can have your contract back.

1286
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 2: You know. I'm done here, you know. Oh no, no, no, no, no,

1287
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 2: no no no no no no, no, no no no.

1288
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 2: And that's when yeah, I went, okay, I've been so

1289
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 2: naive and stupid about record companies. You know this. There's

1290
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,759
Speaker 2: nobody's going to help me do anything. I'm in a cesspool.

1291
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 2: Everybody's fighting for the same resources, and guess what, all

1292
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 2: the engineers are sort of right wing crew cut, kind

1293
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 2: of Vietnam Vett kind of guys who don't like me

1294
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 2: at all. In fact, they don't really want me here

1295
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 2: because I'm this dirty hippie, you know. And that's what

1296
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 2: it was. So because that had been so smart and

1297
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 2: made that great deal the fact there's stuff up but

1298
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,600
Speaker 2: the USS United States and went to London and recorded

1299
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 2: at Olympic Studios.

1300
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, because the legendary Glenn Johns was

1301
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: involved with the first four records.

1302
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, and he was our engineer and he was

1303
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 2: always legendary.

1304
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say, did you purposely for the No,

1305
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 1: like Glenn John's like shaped rolling stone stuff, but I

1306
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,759
Speaker 1: mean more importantly, like that's just the way he engineered,

1307
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 1: especially with led Zeppelin's like records.

1308
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:47,799
Speaker 2: No, No, that's his brother Andy.

1309
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 1: Wait so there are two of them, Yeah, there's two.

1310
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,639
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Glenn Johns was this very rigid

1311
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: British pop guy who had a pop haircut and an

1312
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 2: alligator skin jacket and a briefcase and drove an xke

1313
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 2: and come on, let's here we go. He was like

1314
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 2: and he had done, and he was He had come

1315
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 2: up as an engineer in the British, the London pop scene,

1316
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 2: pop music, so they made good records. We got to

1317
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: Olympic Studios and as soon as we got there, there's

1318
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 2: a guy named Jick Sweatingham who invented a whole lot

1319
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 2: of great stuff, who was like working on the board

1320
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 2: and we just went, oh, this is gonna be great.

1321
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: They really really want to make the guitar sound good.

1322
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 2: We'd record in the States and you'd cut something and

1323
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,640
Speaker 2: sound great, and you go and listen to it and

1324
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:36,679
Speaker 2: you know it sound this big, and you'd go, God,

1325
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 2: what happened. So start working with Glenn. He's our engineer,

1326
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 2: and I'm just totally at war with him because I

1327
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: like the stack sound. I like the otis writing sound.

1328
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 2: I like that dry, real sound, and he's got everything

1329
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 2: going through a plate and it's all kind of in

1330
01:18:54,720 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 2: a reverb chamber. And we're just arguing about presence every day, argue, argue, argue, argue, argue.

1331
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 2: But you know, at the same time, he knew how

1332
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 2: to like get guys together and organize big. He was

1333
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 2: up for fast multi tracking and stuff. So we started

1334
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 2: learning quickly. You know how to make records, how to

1335
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 2: cut tracks, how to really do it?

1336
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: Was this on for eight track by the Time Children

1337
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 1: Futures for Yeah? Okay, okay, Now I have a question.

1338
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 1: A lot of your one of your signature trademarks are well,

1339
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 1: obviously you're you're an albums based artist instead of just.

1340
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,760
Speaker 2: For electronic music, aren't.

1341
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: Well you don't understand.

1342
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 10: I can't wait for this.

1343
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: Wait. But what I'm saying is that a majority of

1344
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: your albums sort of have this cinematic intro to it.

1345
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 2: You don't.

1346
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm just scouting space, even with the the fatality of records.

1347
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean all most of your records. You start this

1348
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: album with a damn near a two minute drone, so

1349
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: in your mind, I mean, I know that in the

1350
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 1: late sixties the whole don't bores, get to the chorus,

1351
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,639
Speaker 1: you know, just throw your hit sing out front and whatever.

1352
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 2: Well that's singles.

1353
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: Albums are different, right, But I'm just saying that no

1354
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: one's truly thinking in terms of crafting albums.

1355
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 2: So well, there were you know, like the Beatles were

1356
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: doing it, and this stuff comes from like symphonic music

1357
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 2: and like Bozo goes to the circus, turn page to

1358
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:47,640
Speaker 2: put the next disc on, and you know, Sparky and

1359
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:53,720
Speaker 2: the radio mystery shows and all of that stuff that

1360
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 2: I listened to all the time as a kid. Made

1361
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 2: making an album cinematic. So it's more like, we're gonna

1362
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 2: go someplace. We're going into this special place, We're gonna

1363
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: listen to this thing. It's gonna be real wide and

1364
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 2: broad and deep, and there's a you know, if you're

1365
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 2: willing to do this, you know, And and that was

1366
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 2: always my goal. And I was into stockhaus And I

1367
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 2: don't know if you've listened to Stockhausen, but I went

1368
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 2: to Germany and met him in and went to a

1369
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 2: studio and saw how he did things. And I always

1370
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 2: loved the idea of creating a big horizon or a

1371
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 2: space and having it be like a story, like it's

1372
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 2: a musical journey, it's not just one tune. And at

1373
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 2: the same time, then you have to pull the one

1374
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 2: tune out, and then that's a whole other game. Making

1375
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 2: single records and that's a whole other art. So it's

1376
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 2: two different approaches.

1377
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: As far as engineering is concerned. You would re engineered

1378
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: and mix a song that was going to be a

1379
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 1: single for specific reasons.

1380
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah, as soon as we could. Yes, And

1381
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,720
Speaker 2: you know it was always hard. I mean, like back then,

1382
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 2: you know, like if you wanted to change the running order,

1383
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 2: you had to cut all the tunes up and put

1384
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,719
Speaker 2: them on separate reels. You know, if you had fourteen

1385
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 2: songs or twelve songs, you had twelve different reels, and

1386
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 2: you go, okay, give me song number six. I'm gonna

1387
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 2: make it song number two. Okay, splice it together. Okay,

1388
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 2: now splice all fourteen of them to give us this

1389
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 2: to that. No, that's not right, take it apart and

1390
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 2: tis do it again. You know, it could take weeks

1391
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 2: just just doing the sequencing. So I always I just

1392
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 2: always like that sort of sense of like you're going

1393
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: on a journey. And when I when I tell you

1394
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,879
Speaker 2: it's Boso Goes to the Circus, there is an actual

1395
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 2: album called Boso Goes to the Circus, and it's kind

1396
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 2: of like that.

1397
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 1: As far as your approach, I mean a lot of

1398
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: that earlier stuff was just blues heavy. How did you well,

1399
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: the thing is the one thing I didn't do even

1400
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,919
Speaker 1: though I had Okay, So I went through two phases

1401
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: of discovering your music naturally having it of course, you know,

1402
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 1: my dad had like a couple of records, and then

1403
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 1: later my sister had a few records, and then once

1404
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 1: hip hop came to play, then I had to buy

1405
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,880
Speaker 1: everything that any any artists ever made, just so I

1406
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 1: can study their discography. So the thing is, though I

1407
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: never looked at or even knew of rock critics disdain

1408
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: for for white blues, of which you know, I mean

1409
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: like Rolling Stone, not tourist Lye would tear up well,

1410
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean because they were, well, you know, you didn't

1411
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: live this authentic blues life, so why are you approximating it?

1412
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 8: You know what white blues is? I mean, it sounds

1413
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 8: weird when you say it like that. What's give me?

1414
01:23:58,760 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 8: Like the three?

1415
01:23:59,760 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 9: Like?

1416
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean his whole career. I mean,

1417
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 1: the basis of his career is taken. But the thing

1418
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: is is that I'm now realizing the life that you

1419
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: lived from Les Paul, entering your life into all the

1420
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 1: people that you backed them when you couldn't help but

1421
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:16,639
Speaker 1: take the torch.

1422
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 2: And when I got to Chicago and everybody I met

1423
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 2: in Chicago, these are just a bunch of white kids

1424
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 2: have been listening to records. I just went he's got

1425
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 2: a record contract, give me the mic, youll because where

1426
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 2: I grew up.

1427
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 1: So they were they amazed that, like you listened to

1428
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: him I play, he was in my living room, like

1429
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: I was.

1430
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 2: Trying to steal Muddy Water's gig.

1431
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: Oh So even then, Muddy Waters wasn't like a god.

1432
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: He was still competition.

1433
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:53,679
Speaker 2: And it's like I told you, Muddy's career was over.

1434
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:58,639
Speaker 2: They had had their hit singles, they were done. There

1435
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 2: weren't any gigs for Muddy w except in these night

1436
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: clubs in Chicago on the South Side and the near

1437
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,440
Speaker 2: North Side. That was it. They might go to Detroit.

1438
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 2: Maybe they were living at home. Muddy was. I think

1439
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 2: Muddy was working as a janitor a Chess Records when

1440
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:23,600
Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones came in. And I mean, it's just

1441
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 2: where it was there, and that was considered normal. You know,

1442
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 2: you made three records, you were a star for eighteen months,

1443
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 2: and you know, now it's the hula hoop. Somebody else's

1444
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 2: got sounds like hip hop today. You know, Yeah, in

1445
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:41,760
Speaker 2: a minute, everything would change. And so when I got

1446
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 2: to Chicago, they were talking about this blues scene and

1447
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 2: they were talking about Paul Butterfield. Now Butter had a

1448
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: great band, and it was it was like the Little

1449
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 2: Walter Records sound before Mike Bloomfield joined the band and

1450
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 2: screwed it up in my opinion, And I know, people

1451
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 2: go crazy when they it was. It was so sweet.

1452
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 2: It was such a great blues band, you know. But

1453
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 2: I always felt like these were kids who like sat

1454
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 2: around and you know, did this with records. And I

1455
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 2: never felt that way because I was listening to blues

1456
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 2: all of my life, when I was around blues musicians

1457
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:25,719
Speaker 2: all of my life, and then growing up in Texas,

1458
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 2: I was around them all my life and T Bone

1459
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 2: was the guy I learned to play lead from. So

1460
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 2: I didn't have I didn't have that issue of like

1461
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 2: I want to be a blues artist and I'm gonna

1462
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 2: dress like one and I'm gonna talk like one, and

1463
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 2: i'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get a

1464
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: guitar just like that. I mean, it wasn't like that.

1465
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 2: It was just like, I want to play music, and

1466
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 2: this is the music that I'm I can see in

1467
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 2: front of me. So that was my difference.

1468
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:53,799
Speaker 9: But wasn't it technically always going to be a disconnect,

1469
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 9: Cause now I'm getting what y'all was saying about white blues,

1470
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 9: black blues, But wasn't it always going to be a

1471
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 9: disconnect sense? Muddy Water and all the black musicians were

1472
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 9: speaking from a place of pain, and regardless to if

1473
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 9: you were in their room, the room with them at

1474
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 9: the time, you would never really feel right what they are.

1475
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:18,640
Speaker 13: White people have pain, y'all.

1476
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 8: Not in America.

1477
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:18,719
Speaker 2: Different.

1478
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 8: It's a different kind of pain in America.

1479
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 2: So you know, I think, like, first of all, first

1480
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 2: of all, like I used to hear Muddy Waters and

1481
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:32,639
Speaker 2: Otis Span and that great band playing in a room

1482
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: the size of the room we're in right now, And

1483
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 2: what I was thinking was how great this sounds, How

1484
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 2: what a phenomenal you know, adults playing adult music. This

1485
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 2: is this is jazz, this is this is incredible. And

1486
01:27:56,200 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 2: you know, I think, you know, the music just gave

1487
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 2: you empathy. You know, I never, I mean, I didn't

1488
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 2: have this. Are you qualifying to play black blues? Yeah?

1489
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 2: I am. You know, let me show you. Let's play

1490
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 2: some blues. Let's play forty four blues, baby, you know

1491
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So I just it was my music.

1492
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 2: I didn't look at it as I'm learning Muddy Waters music.

1493
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 2: And so when I was around Muddy and Hollingwoof, I

1494
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:37,040
Speaker 2: started growing up as a musician and I started seeing

1495
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 2: somebody who like played really great harmonica. I could learn

1496
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:44,640
Speaker 2: some things from that, or I saw somebody who was

1497
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 2: doing something, but I didn't see anybody playing guitar like

1498
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 2: t bon Walker and me I didn't think Buddy Guy

1499
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 2: was you know. I thought Buddy Guy and Junior Wells

1500
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,440
Speaker 2: were like pretenders. You know, they were like the Junior.

1501
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 1: Set, whoa they were?

1502
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 2: They were they were clowns, they were clowning around. They

1503
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 2: were just fucking around. In the minute they got their

1504
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 2: record contract, they stopped playing blues, and Junior did a

1505
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 2: solo album and wanted to be James Brown. So everybody's

1506
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 2: human here, you know.

1507
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:20,839
Speaker 1: And so your thoughts on the what was the electric

1508
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: album that Muddy Waters did? Were electric clud or even

1509
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: that where he said Muddy Waters hates this, Yeah, what

1510
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:30,440
Speaker 1: were your feelings on I didn't.

1511
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:36,840
Speaker 2: Really like that that that approach. And I was asked

1512
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 2: to do a record with John Lee Hooker and I said, well, yes,

1513
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 2: I'd love to. So I go over to the studio

1514
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:44,800
Speaker 2: and there's like, here's what it was like, this is

1515
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 2: the white Blues syndrome. Is a white guy producing the record,

1516
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 2: going okay, John, all right, that's fine, just sit over there.

1517
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 2: And John Lee Hooker's like in a in the corner,

1518
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 2: you know, like he is, you know, kind of stuttering

1519
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 2: and sitting there and very shy man, you know. And

1520
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 2: outside there's like five white guys with long hair and

1521
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 2: guitar cases like next, and inside there's like a good

1522
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:13,720
Speaker 2: rhythm section and they're just coming next and they're just

1523
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 2: going to make this album. So I walked in and

1524
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:19,880
Speaker 2: just said this is all wrong. And I started talking

1525
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 2: to John, and I said, man, let's do this, Let's

1526
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 2: do that, let's work on this, let's get going, you know,

1527
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 2: let's do this stuff. And I did one tune and

1528
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 2: I was gone. You know, when you saw those kind

1529
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,920
Speaker 2: of albums, those were terrible. So what you really want

1530
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 2: is the real deal. Now, Butterfield is the real deal.

1531
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 2: You know, there are white musicians who are the real deal.

1532
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 2: There are black musicians who are the real deal. And

1533
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,880
Speaker 2: and it shouldn't. You know. It's like I get all

1534
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 2: the social you know, differences and the fight about it,

1535
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 2: but really and truly, when you get into the room

1536
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 2: and you just start really playing music. Some people play

1537
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:07,560
Speaker 2: the real stuff, and when that happens, then all that

1538
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 2: other stuff just falls aside and it becomes great. And

1539
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 2: in the record companies promoted all that bad stuff that

1540
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 2: was just some jive A and R guy doing trying

1541
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 2: to make money.

1542
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a question. Now, I believe you when

1543
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 1: you're you know, even though I wasn't there to see

1544
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: these bands in San Franciso or any bands that you've seen,

1545
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, he's good, he's not good. Their quality

1546
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: they're all right, but sort of the way that the

1547
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 1: three of us would know, and I'm pointing up Fonte

1548
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 1: and Bill, the three of us would know equality producer

1549
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 1: all right, Dyla right like, and we respect his his

1550
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: drum patches, all of his you know, his whole arrangement.

1551
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:53,240
Speaker 1: And then we'll hear an unnamed imitator that might be

1552
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:55,839
Speaker 1: more popular, and you're like, a man, his batches are horrible.

1553
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: The sounds. So what The one thing I could never

1554
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 1: because the thing is is that because I'm from another generation,

1555
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 1: I saw, or at least feel, the beauty and the

1556
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 1: stuff that you might not necessarily see as the real deal.

1557
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: But what what are the qualifications for Yeah, what like

1558
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: do you look for technique? Do you look for a

1559
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 1: specific robrato or tone in their guitar playing? You know,

1560
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 1: none of that space in their phrasing, you know, I mean,

1561
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,439
Speaker 1: it's presence, it's peeling.

1562
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 2: It's right now, right right here, what you know you're

1563
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:47,439
Speaker 2: doing right while you're here. And some people can be

1564
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 2: just technically totally incompetent and can be great, and other

1565
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 2: people can be just unbelievably technically competent and just. And

1566
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 2: so it's all the idea, you know, it's it's the material,

1567
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:03,839
Speaker 2: in the in the presence.

1568
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:07,760
Speaker 1: Well, can I ask, as a blues guitarist, what is

1569
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 1: what was your opinion of Hendricks as a blues guitarist?

1570
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 2: Great, absolutely fantastic.

1571
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: Now as an amateur, well at okay, it's not me

1572
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:22,679
Speaker 1: being an amateur. But if I'm coming from an amateur standpoint,

1573
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 1: and I have this problem with musicians today, they think, okay,

1574
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 1: I gotta overplay everything to make up for a technique.

1575
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:34,879
Speaker 1: And I knows that with with with blues guitar players,

1576
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: that the guys that are often praised are the guys

1577
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 1: that have the least amount of the least amount of

1578
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 1: of of notes.

1579
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 2: So my favorite blues guitar player is Jimmy Vaughan. Okay,

1580
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:52,959
Speaker 2: Jimmy Vaughan. And Eric clapped it just at his seventieth

1581
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:56,679
Speaker 2: birthday party at the Garden and John Mayer was there

1582
01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:59,640
Speaker 2: and was there and Booted boot blas there and how

1583
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,960
Speaker 2: do you how I was, you know, and he's got

1584
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:07,639
Speaker 2: all the guitar players and Jimmy's there and everybody's coming

1585
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 2: out and they get to do their cello and they're

1586
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:12,679
Speaker 2: all playing like Eric with that sort of soprano woman

1587
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 2: tone that.

1588
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 10: What's it.

1589
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 2: All over the place right, you know, just fast and

1590
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:23,720
Speaker 2: fantastic and like you think that was good? Dig this

1591
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,519
Speaker 2: thing that And Jimmy came out and hit one note

1592
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 2: and kind of went splank and they kind of hit

1593
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 2: the floor and went flap and the whole building kind

1594
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 2: of went oh, oh, oh, okay, you know. And that's

1595
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 2: the difference. And some people have got it. And look,

1596
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 2: there are people who make millions of dollars selling bullshit.

1597
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 2: We know that, you know, and and the public's easily fooled,

1598
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,240
Speaker 2: you know. And they go along and their packages are

1599
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: sold and things are managed and weights push put behind

1600
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:01,639
Speaker 2: certain things, but when it gets down to the real,

1601
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:07,479
Speaker 2: just unvarnished truth, then somebody who's present, who's really saying

1602
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:10,719
Speaker 2: something or really playing from the heart. That's the first

1603
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:12,519
Speaker 2: thing from that.

1604
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 1: Era never got. Their props are their respect that you

1605
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 1: felt deserved. God, status, My God, We're never going to

1606
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:23,040
Speaker 1: get to fighting. We're not gonna get to fight.

1607
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 2: But I'm not mad is Curtis CeAl Gato and the Stilettos.

1608
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, I've never heard.

1609
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 2: Curtis cell Gato and the Stilettos. Check them out.

1610
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: You know.

1611
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 2: They're phenomenal blues songwriter and singer and great harmonica player

1612
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 2: and badass band leader. And he said like four or

1613
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 2: five bands. He's really funny with his bands. Every every

1614
01:35:55,120 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 2: time he has a new band, I just go, God, Curtis,

1615
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 2: where did you find that guitar player? I don't like

1616
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 2: that guy. I'm firing him. My rhythm guitar player came

1617
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,040
Speaker 2: from Curtis's band. I was just going, when are you

1618
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 2: going to fire him? Great? Thank you?

1619
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna try and skip ahead a little

1620
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 1: bit because I gotta talk about you, all right. So

1621
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: I want to go to Brave New World now, I've

1622
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: heard a lot of stories throughout the year is about

1623
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:32,000
Speaker 1: especially with my Dark Hour. Can you confirm or deny

1624
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: that you were witnessed? Well, you guys are smiling already

1625
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 1: because you know I'm gonna come with now. The rumor

1626
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:44,240
Speaker 1: was that you were privy or in the presence of

1627
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 1: the actual breakup of the Beatles, that both from what

1628
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: I heard, it was that both of you were an

1629
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 1: olymp Olympia's studios.

1630
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:56,719
Speaker 2: Or yeah, I'll tell you what, tell me what happened.

1631
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:00,559
Speaker 2: So I went to London to mix Brave New World, okay,

1632
01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 2: and Glenn was gonna mix it, and he was working

1633
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,120
Speaker 2: with the Beatles at Olympic Studios, and he said, they're

1634
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 2: running a couple of days over, so just come and

1635
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:14,880
Speaker 2: stay at my house and you know, uh, we'll we'll go.

1636
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:16,920
Speaker 2: We'll start in a couple of days. And then he said,

1637
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 2: let's go over to George's house. To George's house. He says, yeah,

1638
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 2: George's house. So we go and go to George's house

1639
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 2: and George opens the door and he's just sweet as

1640
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:31,880
Speaker 2: he can be, and he says, oh, man, children of

1641
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 2: the Future, you know, Sailor. I love those two albums.

1642
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 2: I was you do twirl of you know, the prayer

1643
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 2: wheel and look at the synths, and I'm going okay,

1644
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:50,720
Speaker 2: And I was just like that, you know.

1645
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: And so you did like the Beatles.

1646
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,120
Speaker 2: I loved the Beatles. I thought the Beatles were just

1647
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:58,839
Speaker 2: one of the greatest things that ever happened.

1648
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,720
Speaker 1: In the talk Somebody's Lose that, I just didn't think

1649
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:03,799
Speaker 1: that ye was even on your.

1650
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 2: Oh I love pop, We're just talking about one. So uh,

1651
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:13,639
Speaker 2: he says, all right, we're gonna go over there doing

1652
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 2: a session tonight, so come on with me. So I

1653
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:21,560
Speaker 2: go into the control room and John comes in, and

1654
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Paul comes in, and Linda comes in, and Oko Yoko

1655
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 2: comes in, Tom Stop Lo and they're doing Jojo, Get Back,

1656
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 2: Get Back, Yeah. And they just walked in, sat down,

1657
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 2: sang it in twenty minutes and we're done. And then

1658
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 2: John had to leave and go do a TV show

1659
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 2: that was like the Johnny Carson Show of England, and

1660
01:38:55,400 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 2: he went and he said something that just turned the

1661
01:38:57,479 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 2: whole country over and shook the change out of it.

1662
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 2: Everybody's pockets or something, you know, And then he came

1663
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:08,519
Speaker 2: back and they didn't do anymore that night, and it

1664
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 2: was like if the Beatles were in this room, it'd

1665
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 2: be like there were like four hundred tubes with cameras.

1666
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 2: These would all be cameras. I mean, that's the way

1667
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 2: it felt, and it'd be like, Okay, John's talking to Paul. Now, okay,

1668
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 2: Paul got up, he walked over toward the country. They

1669
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 2: felt like I didn't know how they did what they did,

1670
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 2: and they were very relaxed, and the whole situation real nice.

1671
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 2: So the next day they're gonna do a session and

1672
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 2: John and Ringo didn't show up. George showed up, and

1673
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 2: Paul showed up, and so we're sitting around and they

1674
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 2: had set up the gear. They had the drums and

1675
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:50,840
Speaker 2: the amps and stuff and glenses. Why don't you do

1676
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 2: you and Paul go out and jam a little bit?

1677
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:53,840
Speaker 10: They said.

1678
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:59,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So I borrowed got Lennon's epiphone and then plugged

1679
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 2: into some cool little lamp, and I'm playing this this

1680
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:07,800
Speaker 2: riff and Paul's playing drums. You know, I don't think

1681
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:10,639
Speaker 2: about all these things the way a fan would think

1682
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 2: about them.

1683
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:11,120
Speaker 1: Man.

1684
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 2: I was pretty you know, shy meeting the Beatles. But

1685
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 2: the next thing I know, I'm doing this recording with Paul,

1686
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:21,640
Speaker 2: and Paul's a great drummer. You just heard it, and

1687
01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:24,800
Speaker 2: I was just going, oh, this guy can and I'm going, yeah,

1688
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 2: well dig this lick. Well yeah, and we're we're in

1689
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:30,840
Speaker 2: here doing this now, you know, and I'm not thinking

1690
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 2: about it. And so we start building a song. And

1691
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 2: we're building a song and Paul comes back out and

1692
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 2: plays the bass. I did the second guitar, and he says,

1693
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 2: I got a pedal steel in the other room. You

1694
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:47,080
Speaker 2: want to play? I said, I've always wanted to play it.

1695
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:51,040
Speaker 2: Can you just plus listener to me? So put that on.

1696
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 2: And then we're doing the background vocals, doing the my

1697
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 2: Dark Hour parts.

1698
01:40:57,439 --> 01:40:57,639
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1699
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 2: And while we're doing this, the session gets stopped and

1700
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:12,160
Speaker 2: a newspaper article is brought in that Brian Epstein's mother,

1701
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:15,679
Speaker 2: Brian had died. Their manager had just sold the Beatles

1702
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:19,360
Speaker 2: publishing to Northern Songs for I think it was four

1703
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:26,280
Speaker 2: point nine pounds, and that's when they found out that

1704
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 2: they're publishing had been sold.

1705
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: The ANTV Northern Song. So happened that moment?

1706
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it came in. It was announced in

1707
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 2: an Emmy New Music Express and hey, look at this

1708
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:40,160
Speaker 2: and so we're kind of reading it and I'm sitting

1709
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 2: there going, fuck, you don't own your own published, guest.

1710
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 2: And then we start talking about Alan Klein and John

1711
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:56,880
Speaker 2: wants to sign with Alan Klein and Paul doesn't. And

1712
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm going, you don't want to sign with Alan Klein,

1713
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 2: Alan Klein, all your publishers, you know, those guys are gangsters.

1714
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 2: You don't want your right, don't do that. And I'm

1715
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:10,599
Speaker 2: sitting here going, I can't believe that I'm sitting here

1716
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 2: talking to like somebody that one of the few people

1717
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,400
Speaker 2: in my life that I really really am just in

1718
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 2: awe as a talent. And I'm I'm good, I'm better

1719
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 2: off than Paul. I own my own stuff. I can't

1720
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,799
Speaker 2: believe this, you know. And so there was poison between

1721
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 2: Linda and Yoko, and I remember the one thing that

1722
01:42:32,400 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 2: Yoko did that that really blew my mind was they

1723
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 2: were mixing get Back and she was on the phone

1724
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 2: and she said, hey, could you turn that down? I'm

1725
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:46,280
Speaker 2: on the phone and I say, every time music, I

1726
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 2: was like a fly in the room, like I didn't

1727
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:50,760
Speaker 2: want to move anything, you know. I was just like, well,

1728
01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 2: they were doing it, and they go, what do you

1729
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 2: think about that. See, it's really great. I mean that's

1730
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 2: why I felt while they were doing it. I really

1731
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:00,280
Speaker 2: wasn't relaxed yet. I hadn't played any music with them

1732
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 2: or done anything. You know. The next day was a

1733
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:05,599
Speaker 2: whole different deal. And that wasn't the day they broke up.

1734
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 2: But I saw the stuff that was going on, and

1735
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:11,040
Speaker 2: you know, it was just like Boz and I had

1736
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 2: this kind of thing like Boz wanted to go sign

1737
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 2: a quick deal with some guy. You know. Boz was going, oh,

1738
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:22,200
Speaker 2: we need this guy, you know, Lenny's going to be

1739
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 2: your manager or whatever it was. And I was going, Boz,

1740
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 2: you're nuts. We can't let you know, we have to

1741
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:31,080
Speaker 2: keep control of our business. No, no, no, no, no no.

1742
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 2: And there was a lot of that. You know. It's like,

1743
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 2: hey kid, I'm going to take care of you. I'm

1744
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,720
Speaker 2: gonna you know, the whole deal, you know. And and uh,

1745
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 2: Lennon just it seemed to me like he just wanted

1746
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 2: somebody to take care of this stuff and have it

1747
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:45,960
Speaker 2: stopped driving him nuts. And Paul was kind of going

1748
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 2: like I want to own my own publishing. I want

1749
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 2: to own my own stuff. We need a good manager.

1750
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 2: We got to be smart, This isn't going to work.

1751
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 2: And that was, you know, when it was going on.

1752
01:43:57,680 --> 01:43:59,559
Speaker 2: But they hadn't broken up yet, so I wasn't there

1753
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 2: then they broke up, but I saw what the key

1754
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 2: elements were.

1755
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:10,759
Speaker 8: You, Steve, did you ever have a manager?

1756
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 9: Never?

1757
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had a couple people manage me. And my

1758
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 2: first manager got me busted when I was in London.

1759
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 2: I fired in and yeah, he had a heart shaped

1760
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:29,320
Speaker 2: Valentine with a pound of weeds to him, didn't tell anybody,

1761
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 2: it didn't arrive and he left town. Yeah, it's just

1762
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:39,439
Speaker 2: stuff like that, man, you know, I have never had.

1763
01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:42,080
Speaker 2: I got a lot of help from a guy in

1764
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:45,680
Speaker 2: Chicago named Frank Freed, who was a good man who

1765
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:48,760
Speaker 2: helped manage me for a while, did get part of

1766
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:50,920
Speaker 2: my publishing but sold it back to me for nine

1767
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:53,600
Speaker 2: thousand bucks, which was the last nine thousand bucks I

1768
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 2: ever had. Yeah, I mean I had at the moment,

1769
01:44:56,560 --> 01:45:00,719
Speaker 2: but after that I never could find anybody was smart

1770
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 2: enough to be my manager. And by that I meant

1771
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:06,640
Speaker 2: they didn't know which lawyers to use, they didn't know

1772
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:08,800
Speaker 2: what kind of insurance to get. They were full of shit.

1773
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:10,800
Speaker 2: They were hanging out in some office. They thought it

1774
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:11,519
Speaker 2: was a party.

1775
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 1: They weren't.

1776
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:15,200
Speaker 2: They didn't have the kind of connections I wanted. And

1777
01:45:15,240 --> 01:45:17,400
Speaker 2: I was always scared of guys like Irving A's off.

1778
01:45:17,479 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 2: You know, I was the Irving would skin me. You know,

1779
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:22,400
Speaker 2: it's turned out to be one of the best guys

1780
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 2: there is for artists.

1781
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 1: But you know, during that time period, so mafia infused that,

1782
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, you could make.

1783
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:34,080
Speaker 2: Well, everything was mafia or record company. And the managers,

1784
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean a manager was a guy who was like

1785
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles going, hey, what what do you mean?

1786
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,600
Speaker 2: The hotel's bad, the PA doesn't work. Listen. I got

1787
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 2: to talk to Madonna right right, you know, you know,

1788
01:45:44,840 --> 01:45:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean they were just playing everybody and there wasn't

1789
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 2: very much respect for artists, and I just didn't in

1790
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 2: my run, I didn't run into the right people. I

1791
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:58,640
Speaker 2: never ran into somebody who was like going to be

1792
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 2: doing as much as I was doing and earning their

1793
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:03,080
Speaker 2: equal share.

1794
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:05,639
Speaker 10: Of what it was around at that time.

1795
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:11,400
Speaker 2: It was fun and I love Shep, you know, and

1796
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:19,280
Speaker 2: and he's you know, you was the dealer, and you know,

1797
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:22,720
Speaker 2: I didn't want a drug dealer or a kid to

1798
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:27,200
Speaker 2: be my manager. I wanted I realized that I needed

1799
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:31,800
Speaker 2: more than that, you know, and it's taken me a

1800
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 2: lifetime to figure out what a what it really takes,

1801
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 2: you know. I mean I've been doing this now for

1802
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:41,280
Speaker 2: a long, long, long time about you know, sixty sixty

1803
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:45,720
Speaker 2: five years and us it's a it's been a long

1804
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:47,800
Speaker 2: life and I've I've learned a lot about business, and

1805
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:52,559
Speaker 2: there are very few managers people can really actually manage

1806
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:55,920
Speaker 2: you through the stages of a career, and they always

1807
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 2: want to own you forever, you know.

1808
01:46:59,080 --> 01:47:01,160
Speaker 1: So what do you want to give advice to anybody

1809
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: that's listening on what to look for as a manager,

1810
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 1: like I mean yeah, like or maybe like things for

1811
01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:11,120
Speaker 1: them to to you know, sign for them to.

1812
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 2: Go for honestly an organization really well yeah, yeah, an

1813
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 2: organization that's honest. Honesty is the is really important. And

1814
01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 2: of course knowledge too, but uh, it's really really, really

1815
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:30,760
Speaker 2: a difficult thing, and you have to u decide. You know,

1816
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,479
Speaker 2: when people make these decisions, they don't even know what

1817
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:35,519
Speaker 2: they're getting into. They don't even know what their lives

1818
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:36,040
Speaker 2: are going to be.

1819
01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:36,360
Speaker 11: You know.

1820
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:39,240
Speaker 2: It's the only place in the world where you know,

1821
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:41,759
Speaker 2: somebody comes up to you and go when you're eighteen

1822
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:43,840
Speaker 2: or twenty years old, and goes, I'm going to manage you,

1823
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,880
Speaker 2: and I'm going to own part of this for the

1824
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 2: rest of your life, and I'll probably sell it and

1825
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:51,200
Speaker 2: make more money off of it than you will later.

1826
01:47:52,200 --> 01:47:55,160
Speaker 2: You know, that's kind of what management is really looking

1827
01:47:55,240 --> 01:47:55,760
Speaker 2: to do, you.

1828
01:47:55,840 --> 01:48:03,120
Speaker 1: Know, honest though. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, I guess we

1829
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 1: show also been at least Space Cowboy on the record.

1830
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:09,639
Speaker 1: Did you plan on that being a main single? Because

1831
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:12,519
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know why I was at the

1832
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:15,719
Speaker 1: end of side too, because I would normally think that, Okay,

1833
01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:18,880
Speaker 1: your first single, your big single, should at least be

1834
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: in the first three songs.

1835
01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 2: I hated Space Cowboy. I would want to put it

1836
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:22,639
Speaker 2: on the record.

1837
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:24,559
Speaker 1: So was it an accidental hit?

1838
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:27,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was one of those kind of things like

1839
01:48:29,120 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 2: I have had. I've written myself out of what I

1840
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 2: call the rock ghetto, right, you know, several times by luck.

1841
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 2: And Space Cowboy was a poorly executed, executed tune, poorly written,

1842
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:55,639
Speaker 2: done in fifteen seconds or was it? But the idea

1843
01:48:55,920 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 2: was really really great and we knocked it out without

1844
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:02,720
Speaker 2: any respect and we didn't take Like when I was

1845
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:07,400
Speaker 2: talking to Paul about writing to McCartney, was going, man,

1846
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 2: how did you do? What? What about all that? And

1847
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:11,760
Speaker 2: he said, oh, he said, God, we did those things

1848
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 2: so fast. I wish I had taken more time with

1849
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 2: some of these songs. And that was kind of like

1850
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:20,400
Speaker 2: which one the long Winding Road was that too short?

1851
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 2: Or which one was it that wasn't didn't meet your standards?

1852
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 2: You know, But when you look back and you see

1853
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:32,160
Speaker 2: stuff like that, like you know, space Cot was just

1854
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:34,600
Speaker 2: a terrible track and that's why it's stuck on the

1855
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:36,920
Speaker 2: end and everybody's going, are you crazy? You kind of

1856
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:37,360
Speaker 2: put it up.

1857
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:39,040
Speaker 1: You're still maintainment to this day.

1858
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 2: No, it's a great song now. I completely redone it.

1859
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:44,639
Speaker 2: We're killing it now.

1860
01:49:46,400 --> 01:49:48,920
Speaker 1: When you hear the original, you're just like, man, so

1861
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:51,840
Speaker 1: I get a sweat and blood.

1862
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:52,760
Speaker 2: Dude.

1863
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: I mean, but you see there's a Simpsons episode about it,

1864
01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:02,519
Speaker 1: so you're at least like, Okay, maybe I was wrong

1865
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: about it.

1866
01:50:03,160 --> 01:50:05,920
Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing, like, I've never met any

1867
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:08,840
Speaker 2: artist who has any concept to who they are. It

1868
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 2: was so obvious Chuck Berry didn't have a clue who

1869
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 2: he was. You know, didn't know who Chuck Berry was.

1870
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:17,920
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know who Steve Miller is. I'm

1871
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:20,840
Speaker 2: inside of Steve Miller trying to think this stuff up

1872
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 2: and do it. So when somebody comes up and goes,

1873
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 2: oh man, Steve Space Cowboy, you know the Stephen Mere

1874
01:50:28,080 --> 01:50:30,479
Speaker 2: goes God, that was the lamest track we ever cut.

1875
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:33,040
Speaker 2: I can't believe it sounds terrible as an awful mix.

1876
01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:36,080
Speaker 2: Guitar solo is like, what did I have that effect

1877
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 2: on that? Get?

1878
01:50:37,760 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 9: Ugh?

1879
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:41,599
Speaker 2: Ah, you know that's me. That's the way I'm looking

1880
01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:44,160
Speaker 2: at it. And somebody else has gone, god, Man, Space

1881
01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:48,600
Speaker 2: Cowboys saved my life, and you have to you know,

1882
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:50,719
Speaker 2: it's really hard to just shut up and go thanks

1883
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:53,600
Speaker 2: and thank you. You know, so it's really hard to

1884
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:56,160
Speaker 2: know who you are to other people. I have a

1885
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:57,000
Speaker 2: hard time with that.

1886
01:50:57,200 --> 01:51:00,400
Speaker 1: You said, only take fifteen minutes in one take. Well,

1887
01:51:00,479 --> 01:51:03,519
Speaker 1: in contrast, you said in an interview once that I

1888
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:05,320
Speaker 1: think The Joker took three weeks to make.

1889
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:09,240
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's a whole album, okay, not just no

1890
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:10,599
Speaker 2: the Joker album.

1891
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:13,960
Speaker 1: I thought you meant okay, I thought the song The Joker.

1892
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,200
Speaker 2: Was really quick. That was like seventeen days for the

1893
01:51:16,280 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 2: whole thing.

1894
01:51:17,560 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, So even thanks for putting that song

1895
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:21,639
Speaker 1: in guitar heroll.

1896
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:25,640
Speaker 2: My kids love that song, you know, God bless it.

1897
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:26,080
Speaker 9: You know.

1898
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:29,559
Speaker 2: I love the fact that little kids love my music

1899
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:31,240
Speaker 2: and they all sing it, and they all like it,

1900
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:32,479
Speaker 2: and they can sing the parts.

1901
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:32,720
Speaker 9: You know.

1902
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 2: That's that's as good as it good.

1903
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 1: Not that I think, well, I don't know, if you see.

1904
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:39,000
Speaker 1: I like to think that everything that you've done on

1905
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:42,680
Speaker 1: your records had some sort of scientific, purposeful.

1906
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:42,720
Speaker 2: Meaning to it.

1907
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I know you're going to be like, sure,

1908
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was thinking. Okay. On the

1909
01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:53,240
Speaker 1: Joker album, right at the beginning of Come to My Kitchen,

1910
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:56,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you have this monster group. It's only for

1911
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:59,640
Speaker 1: like eighteen seconds, but it feels like you're going to

1912
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:02,880
Speaker 1: do live concert, and this monster group starts and then

1913
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:05,880
Speaker 1: it just fades away, and then you go into come

1914
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:09,960
Speaker 1: to my Kitchen. Why and where is that group? Because

1915
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:11,600
Speaker 1: that group was.

1916
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 2: Kind of a sound check. Yeah, but and and uh

1917
01:52:15,280 --> 01:52:19,960
Speaker 2: and and still have all of it. And it was

1918
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 2: a great groove and and I wanted I want I

1919
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 2: wanted to you know, I wanted to create this environment,

1920
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:29,120
Speaker 2: and I wanted that it was I knew it was

1921
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:30,920
Speaker 2: such a great piece of music. I wanted to put

1922
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 2: it on the record, but I didn't know more what

1923
01:52:33,240 --> 01:52:35,519
Speaker 2: to do with it, and and so we mixed it

1924
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:38,200
Speaker 2: with the Kitchen Blues, which was this live performance.

1925
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:42,840
Speaker 1: And it's just like, was it us like walking into

1926
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,680
Speaker 1: the concert hall as the It's kind of.

1927
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 2: Like to me, it's always like the spaceship lens, you know,

1928
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 2: it's like there's a lot of that. Like I was

1929
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 2: always playing the echo plexo.

1930
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:56,439
Speaker 10: Woo wool wall wah wah.

1931
01:52:57,640 --> 01:53:02,000
Speaker 2: You know, into another thing, you know, and I don't know,

1932
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:04,519
Speaker 2: you know why I didn't take that and write write

1933
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:06,599
Speaker 2: a great piece of music. You know. I was always

1934
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:10,679
Speaker 2: very serious about making my albums and trying to say,

1935
01:53:12,560 --> 01:53:17,679
Speaker 2: say entertain people, say good things, kind of educate people,

1936
01:53:17,840 --> 01:53:19,680
Speaker 2: have it be a little bit more than maybe what

1937
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:23,720
Speaker 2: they were thinking they were going to get. And so

1938
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:27,800
Speaker 2: it's always, you know, serious about it. It wasn't just like, oh,

1939
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 2: I don't know what I was doing, But sometimes I

1940
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:32,200
Speaker 2: didn't know what I was doing. Like on Space Cowboy,

1941
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,160
Speaker 2: I thought it was a great idea. I just you know,

1942
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:40,120
Speaker 2: we made five albums I think in eighteen months, and

1943
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:43,360
Speaker 2: that was the third one or something. You know. It

1944
01:53:43,560 --> 01:53:45,480
Speaker 2: was like we were really moving fast.

1945
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:50,120
Speaker 1: When you're making these records, do you, I mean, they

1946
01:53:50,200 --> 01:53:53,439
Speaker 1: also have a and it's gonna be weird maybe for

1947
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:55,080
Speaker 1: you to say this. I don't know if anyone's ever

1948
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:58,120
Speaker 1: described it to you before, but I mean, I consider

1949
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 1: these hip hop seeds hip hop records because there's some

1950
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:08,960
Speaker 1: of them are so groove based, and the way that

1951
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 1: you mix them, it's it's like R and B records,

1952
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:15,120
Speaker 1: even with with like I mean, I'm not even talking

1953
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 1: about like take the Money and Run or whatever that

1954
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:19,880
Speaker 1: had breakbeats at the top of them, but just in general, like,

1955
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:26,639
Speaker 1: were you mindful of soul grooves and maybe that somewhere

1956
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:29,280
Speaker 1: out there there's a black audience that would embrace you

1957
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:30,680
Speaker 1: as well or that sort of thing.

1958
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:36,760
Speaker 2: Stop we had a black audience. We had a big audience,

1959
01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:41,879
Speaker 2: and everywhere we played it was really a mixed audience,

1960
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 2: and we were a mixed band. And uh so, you know,

1961
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:50,640
Speaker 2: Gerald Johnson is one of the greatest bass players from

1962
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:56,040
Speaker 2: the whole fucking planet. You know, he's great, and uh

1963
01:54:57,160 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 2: we had you know, before the sheds, it was all integrated.

1964
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:07,360
Speaker 2: And as soon as the sheds were built and they

1965
01:55:07,440 --> 01:55:10,640
Speaker 2: moved out to the suburbs, like all of a sudden,

1966
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:13,120
Speaker 2: I was just playing to an all white kind of.

1967
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:17,440
Speaker 1: Like man music. Well, see, our shed is actually in

1968
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:20,680
Speaker 1: the inner city. Actually our sids in the hoods Center

1969
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 1: and Philly Man Music Center is right in the hood. Yeah,

1970
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:27,000
Speaker 1: and the Plateau.

1971
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:30,280
Speaker 2: Played one of the you know, I played there many

1972
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,160
Speaker 2: times and had one of the most corrupt gigs of

1973
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 2: my life was done there.

1974
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 1: Music Center was the name Larry Maggott brought into play.

1975
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 2: Yes, it was okay, Larry Megan stories.

1976
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 1: He's the man my dad, so go ahead.

1977
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:53,480
Speaker 2: So so oh that explains everything. I was reading your book.

1978
01:55:53,560 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, so all right. So Larry Maggott,

1979
01:55:56,880 --> 01:56:00,400
Speaker 2: like a friend of mine who had started off as

1980
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:04,480
Speaker 2: an equipment manager for Santana Herbie Herbert, put together created

1981
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:06,840
Speaker 2: and thought up the band Journey. He thought up the

1982
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 2: poster art, he thought up the t shirt business. He's

1983
01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:11,560
Speaker 2: the guy who created the t shirt business now. And

1984
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:13,600
Speaker 2: he picked the people in Journey and he said we're

1985
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:15,040
Speaker 2: gonna have a rock pan and we're gonna do this,

1986
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:23,840
Speaker 2: and he was unbelievably successful. And he told me the

1987
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 2: story about Larry. So they played at Philly at the

1988
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:32,080
Speaker 2: Football Stadium stadium and got paid on a sold out

1989
01:56:32,160 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 2: show fifty six thousand people or something like that. A

1990
01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:37,400
Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, to get a satellite photo from

1991
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:39,960
Speaker 2: a friend of theirs in the Air Force. He goes, congratulations,

1992
01:56:40,360 --> 01:56:43,840
Speaker 2: you guys had seventy eight, two hundred and forty two

1993
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:47,040
Speaker 2: people at your show. And he said, can you do

1994
01:56:47,240 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 2: that from a satellite? He said, oh yeah, right to

1995
01:56:49,280 --> 01:56:53,960
Speaker 2: the you know there it is. So there's a huge

1996
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:57,040
Speaker 2: lawsuit body against Larry Maggott who was like skimming, like

1997
01:56:57,200 --> 01:57:01,480
Speaker 2: by twenty five thousand people. Everything was a skim, right,

1998
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:06,000
Speaker 2: So stealing skimming, stealing, skimming off everybody. So Paul McCartney's

1999
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:09,240
Speaker 2: seeing them, grateful dead, sewing them, journey seeing them. Somebody

2000
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:13,800
Speaker 2: else is seeing them. Somebody Yeah, they see him. A

2001
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:16,680
Speaker 2: vice president from the company has to go to jail

2002
01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:19,000
Speaker 2: for eighteen months. And then poll started as an article

2003
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:21,360
Speaker 2: saying so Larry house business ben He says, well, ticket

2004
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:25,240
Speaker 2: sales A is great. Has affect your ticket sales at all?

2005
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 2: So that's a So I'm playing there and I go

2006
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:34,200
Speaker 2: do this. I get there and the building manager is

2007
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 2: not there. The fire commissioner guy is like on vacation,

2008
01:57:39,920 --> 01:57:43,600
Speaker 2: and those three hundred pounds Union guys and Philly who

2009
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:47,560
Speaker 2: are all like, hey, yeah, you know, I mean I

2010
01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:51,840
Speaker 2: got into it with those guys, Yeah I did. I

2011
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 2: went in. They were all eating chicken, and I said,

2012
01:57:53,880 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 2: look at you guys. While I was talking, I was going,

2013
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:00,520
Speaker 2: what am I doing? They were like the you know,

2014
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:03,600
Speaker 2: eating half chickens, and nothing was set up, and they

2015
01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:06,560
Speaker 2: were trying to charge us an extra ten thousand dollars

2016
01:58:06,640 --> 01:58:09,560
Speaker 2: to set up our second laser screen, and you know,

2017
01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 2: they were just jerking us around everything. And I go

2018
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:16,160
Speaker 2: out and I look at outside and I go, holy shit,

2019
01:58:16,680 --> 01:58:18,720
Speaker 2: this place is so over sold. This is the most

2020
01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:21,360
Speaker 2: dangerous house I've ever been in my life. There was

2021
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:25,320
Speaker 2: not space for one more person there was there were

2022
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:29,760
Speaker 2: no aisles, there were nothing, and I just had to like,

2023
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, the show was like very delicate. I didn't

2024
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:36,880
Speaker 2: want to get anybody too excited or anything. And then

2025
01:58:37,240 --> 01:58:40,280
Speaker 2: the rear fence was broken down and three thousand people

2026
01:58:40,600 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 2: more came in. And then later we found out that

2027
01:58:44,240 --> 01:58:48,320
Speaker 2: the Union had a van that they were selling cocaine

2028
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:53,840
Speaker 2: in the the union. The Union guys at work, they

2029
01:58:53,880 --> 01:58:56,160
Speaker 2: were selling coke in the audience, and they were reselling

2030
01:58:56,200 --> 01:59:03,480
Speaker 2: the tickets just when you're thinking there, I had a seizure,

2031
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:06,160
Speaker 2: you know. And then and then you know, we get

2032
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:08,320
Speaker 2: in the cars and that's the end of the East

2033
01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:11,560
Speaker 2: Coast and we're going to Denver, and you know, three

2034
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:14,400
Speaker 2: days later we're playing it. We fly, the stuff's all

2035
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:17,000
Speaker 2: into it. We get to Denver and we get out

2036
01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:19,400
Speaker 2: the Red Rocks and the guys go, what did you

2037
01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:22,640
Speaker 2: guys do in Philly? Man? You know, because the union

2038
01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:24,760
Speaker 2: had called them. You know, I thought our tires were

2039
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:27,800
Speaker 2: going to be slashed, our equipment stolen, but that that

2040
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:32,240
Speaker 2: was always Philly. You know, it was a very So

2041
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, when when people asked me about business and

2042
01:59:35,480 --> 01:59:38,960
Speaker 2: you asked me about management, I've been dealing all my

2043
01:59:39,120 --> 01:59:47,840
Speaker 2: life with mafia, UH, illegal police, UH, corrupt business people,

2044
01:59:49,080 --> 01:59:55,080
Speaker 2: dishonest record companies. The union designed to protect me, never

2045
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:59,440
Speaker 2: protected any of my interests and abused me. And uh,

2046
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:02,840
Speaker 2: you know, the ask caps of the world have you know,

2047
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm always in the wrong program. When I when I

2048
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:07,600
Speaker 2: got my hit boy too bad, you know, you would

2049
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 2: have made more shell game, you know, all of that

2050
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So my whole business experience has been

2051
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:18,840
Speaker 2: dealing with people who are dishonest or trying to steal

2052
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:21,000
Speaker 2: from me and trying to do me harm.

2053
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:21,440
Speaker 7: You know.

2054
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:25,000
Speaker 2: So that's that's what That's the kind of manager you

2055
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:27,160
Speaker 2: need is you need the space cowboy man, you need

2056
02:00:27,240 --> 02:00:28,440
Speaker 2: the champion of justice.

2057
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:33,240
Speaker 8: Sounds like we need to Stephen Miller book though publisher,

2058
02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:34,040
Speaker 8: you know what I mean?

2059
02:00:34,560 --> 02:00:37,640
Speaker 2: I think I think you know, the book's been written.

2060
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:39,880
Speaker 2: You know what the problem I found was what people

2061
02:00:39,920 --> 02:00:43,600
Speaker 2: would say, you know, like, well, that's an acceptable contract

2062
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:46,440
Speaker 2: that they would have, you know, fifty percent of your publishing.

2063
02:00:46,600 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 2: That's that's the industry standard. And I just from my

2064
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:53,560
Speaker 2: twelve year old days of getting paid for what I

2065
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:56,240
Speaker 2: did and what I thought was mine, I would just say,

2066
02:00:56,280 --> 02:00:56,800
Speaker 2: well no.

2067
02:00:57,800 --> 02:00:59,960
Speaker 9: And that's still you think that's realistic in twenty seve

2068
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 9: seen you think that, you know, some courage field artists

2069
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:05,640
Speaker 9: can go into office and be like I want it all.

2070
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it's so different now because you have to

2071
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:12,400
Speaker 2: here's here's the thing, you know, like here, here's the thing.

2072
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:16,840
Speaker 2: You can only do that when the situation's right. So

2073
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:19,720
Speaker 2: when I told you I had a feeding frenzy, I

2074
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:23,560
Speaker 2: thought you understood what a feeding frenzy is. Feeding frenzies,

2075
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, when I when I told you that in

2076
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:29,360
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six there was this giant awakening in San Francisco.

2077
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:31,920
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about some little scene in the club.

2078
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm talking about.

2079
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:34,800
Speaker 1: The world movement.

2080
02:01:35,000 --> 02:01:39,200
Speaker 2: A thing popped out. You know, it was like whoa, whoa,

2081
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:41,800
Speaker 2: there's a whole different way this can all work. So

2082
02:01:42,080 --> 02:01:45,720
Speaker 2: these things are like you know, situations timing all that

2083
02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:46,640
Speaker 2: kind of stuff.

2084
02:01:46,520 --> 02:01:48,360
Speaker 8: Or unicorn in a way with the kids call like

2085
02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:49,360
Speaker 8: to call it these days.

2086
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:51,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you want to get, if you

2087
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:55,520
Speaker 2: want it so bad, you'll do anything that's man listen,

2088
02:01:55,920 --> 02:01:59,120
Speaker 2: then then then you know, I can get all your

2089
02:01:59,160 --> 02:02:02,000
Speaker 2: publishing and your shoes and your watch and your ring

2090
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:05,360
Speaker 2: and your wallet. You know, in thirty minutes. That's now

2091
02:02:05,440 --> 02:02:10,440
Speaker 2: with three sixties, yeah, and all of that because they

2092
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 2: know it and the kids don't know it. And you know,

2093
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 2: kids always want to you know, you wost want to

2094
02:02:14,160 --> 02:02:16,520
Speaker 2: do it, but you have to say no.

2095
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 1: You have to learn the leverage is in your favor

2096
02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:20,879
Speaker 1: if you if you have even.

2097
02:02:21,120 --> 02:02:23,600
Speaker 2: If it isn't, you have to say no for a while.

2098
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:27,920
Speaker 2: Do you know, Like I never did anything I didn't

2099
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:31,080
Speaker 2: want to do, and I had people trying to get

2100
02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:33,760
Speaker 2: me to do stuff. You know, hey, man, go do

2101
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:35,840
Speaker 2: this thing for this DJ for free, and he'll do

2102
02:02:35,920 --> 02:02:38,040
Speaker 2: that and go, fuck you man. You know there's going

2103
02:02:38,120 --> 02:02:40,560
Speaker 2: to be four thousand people there. Sure you want me

2104
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:43,280
Speaker 2: to come? I always had that attitude. You know that

2105
02:02:43,440 --> 02:02:45,440
Speaker 2: you got to pay me if you want me to

2106
02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:47,800
Speaker 2: put the amp in the car and drive there and

2107
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:50,120
Speaker 2: set it up and plug it in. Man, It's it's work.

2108
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:51,320
Speaker 2: It's work, Okay.

2109
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:56,120
Speaker 1: So I have a question in in retrospect, was there

2110
02:02:56,760 --> 02:03:02,520
Speaker 1: one historical event or one color collaboration or even some

2111
02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:06,680
Speaker 1: of his minuscule as a soundtrack song, one slight misstep

2112
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:09,280
Speaker 1: that you made that you regret not doing, Like did

2113
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:12,160
Speaker 1: you get an offer for Woodstock but you're like they

2114
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:13,000
Speaker 1: ain't paying for me gas?

2115
02:03:13,120 --> 02:03:19,880
Speaker 2: Nope or wood Stock. I was calling, uh Frank Freed

2116
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:22,240
Speaker 2: in Chicago. The guy was helping me out there. Frank,

2117
02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:24,400
Speaker 2: we got to play Woodsuck. We're gonna Yeah, you don't

2118
02:03:24,400 --> 02:03:25,960
Speaker 2: want to play there. It's gonna be many, it's gonna

2119
02:03:25,960 --> 02:03:28,240
Speaker 2: be in the say and it's already booked, you know what, Frank,

2120
02:03:28,280 --> 02:03:30,480
Speaker 2: we gotta come on, Ah, you don't want to you

2121
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:36,720
Speaker 2: know that was one uh Monterey Pop Festival was you know,

2122
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:39,040
Speaker 2: we were talking about how the San Francisco guys really

2123
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:42,520
Speaker 2: considered the La guys gangsters and criminals, which they were,

2124
02:03:43,280 --> 02:03:46,080
Speaker 2: and we were right to have that. But the other

2125
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:48,320
Speaker 2: day I was reading about the Monterey Pop Festival and

2126
02:03:48,440 --> 02:03:51,680
Speaker 2: somebody was talking about how my manager, in typical San

2127
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:55,080
Speaker 2: Francisco fashion talked my talked us out of being in

2128
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:57,200
Speaker 2: the film. You know, it's like, we're not gonna let

2129
02:03:57,200 --> 02:03:58,800
Speaker 2: you guys film us. We're not gonna do that.

2130
02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 1: You did it and you're not own film.

2131
02:04:00,760 --> 02:04:03,400
Speaker 9: Yeah right, no, wait, but Jannis is saying, your wife

2132
02:04:03,480 --> 02:04:05,880
Speaker 9: is saying, some Jess, there we go.

2133
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:10,800
Speaker 2: Jennis just found twelve minutes of us that that Penny

2134
02:04:10,840 --> 02:04:16,320
Speaker 2: Baker himself shot anyway, in spite of which shows you right, absolutely,

2135
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:22,160
Speaker 2: yeah yeah. And you know Bill Graham was the same way.

2136
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:25,960
Speaker 2: I mean, he illegally videotaped and recorded every show I

2137
02:04:26,040 --> 02:04:26,680
Speaker 2: ever did. There.

2138
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:28,840
Speaker 8: Oh, they're putting it out. Oh you said she said that.

2139
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:30,000
Speaker 8: Janna said they're putting it out.

2140
02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:32,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well we've called them up and said, hey,

2141
02:04:32,480 --> 02:04:39,000
Speaker 2: you remember what we said. We didn't mean that sixty

2142
02:04:39,200 --> 02:04:40,520
Speaker 2: seven or whatever was.

2143
02:04:40,560 --> 02:04:49,480
Speaker 1: Come on, you know, I can't believe this, but we're

2144
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:51,560
Speaker 1: finally getting to nineteen seventy six. I know you got

2145
02:04:52,120 --> 02:04:54,480
Speaker 1: you get to Fly like an Eagle already. I promise

2146
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:59,360
Speaker 1: you I'll end it right now. All right, I just

2147
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:02,000
Speaker 1: had a get to Fly like wait, I'm here now

2148
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:04,000
Speaker 1: now I'm so overwhelmed, I don't know what to ask

2149
02:05:04,080 --> 02:05:04,360
Speaker 1: about it.

2150
02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:09,440
Speaker 2: Fly Like an Eagle was a song that was developed

2151
02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:14,840
Speaker 2: over two three years. And our gigs used to be

2152
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:17,800
Speaker 2: we'd like, you know, go come to Detroit and play

2153
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:19,920
Speaker 2: the Grandy ball Room, or be in Boston at the

2154
02:05:20,120 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 2: Tea Party year be you know, whoever it was. And

2155
02:05:24,640 --> 02:05:26,600
Speaker 2: a lot of what we did was like we'd play

2156
02:05:26,600 --> 02:05:29,040
Speaker 2: a couple hours, two three hours, and we'd have a

2157
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:32,880
Speaker 2: mirror ball and you know, mirror ball is a great thing,

2158
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 2: and you know, it's like a dark room. It wasn't

2159
02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:37,440
Speaker 2: like a big show spotlights and all that, and there'd

2160
02:05:37,480 --> 02:05:39,960
Speaker 2: be some you know, kind of oily kind of stuff

2161
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:41,800
Speaker 2: going on behind you. The mirror ball would be on,

2162
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:44,920
Speaker 2: everything would be kind of cool and we'd just start jamming.

2163
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 2: And so Fly Like an Eagle was a jam and

2164
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:51,680
Speaker 2: it was a long piece. Back in those days, a

2165
02:05:51,840 --> 02:05:53,640
Speaker 2: show wasn't something where you had to come out and

2166
02:05:53,760 --> 02:05:56,880
Speaker 2: do like, you know, nine songs and forty five minutes

2167
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:59,000
Speaker 2: like bang bang bang bang bang bang, thank you very much.

2168
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:02,760
Speaker 2: You know, it was like a whole evening and it

2169
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:04,880
Speaker 2: was kind of like we're just tipping the gang and

2170
02:06:05,080 --> 02:06:09,040
Speaker 2: everybody's going to relax. You know, it's like music tonight.

2171
02:06:09,680 --> 02:06:13,960
Speaker 2: And so that song was developed started like that and

2172
02:06:15,440 --> 02:06:18,760
Speaker 2: that riff. You know, my dark hour didn't feel like

2173
02:06:19,240 --> 02:06:22,320
Speaker 2: you know, I gave him the song before it was

2174
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:24,640
Speaker 2: really finished and we did it in seven hours and

2175
02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:27,480
Speaker 2: it was done, and I wasn't done with that that

2176
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:28,680
Speaker 2: idea at all.

2177
02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:31,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, come back to it because there was a

2178
02:06:31,520 --> 02:06:36,480
Speaker 1: slow I believe on Midnight Special in seventy three you

2179
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:40,040
Speaker 1: did a version of Flat like Eagle. That's half the halftime,

2180
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:44,040
Speaker 1: the slower version of it. So it's always been your repertoire. Yeah,

2181
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:48,600
Speaker 1: like for me personally, like and this is this is

2182
02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:51,240
Speaker 1: the whole reason why you're here? Is the next question?

2183
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:55,680
Speaker 1: I wait, you gotta understand, all right.

2184
02:06:55,800 --> 02:06:57,360
Speaker 9: So my.

2185
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 1: My my first day of school back in seventy six,

2186
02:07:04,600 --> 02:07:09,680
Speaker 1: which is weird because because my dad had both silt

2187
02:07:09,720 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 1: degrees and fly like an Eagle eight track in the car,

2188
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 1: it was far far drive from school. So like my

2189
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:20,880
Speaker 1: memory of hearing fly like an Eagles on my dad's

2190
02:07:20,960 --> 02:07:24,800
Speaker 1: a track player in the car, and also with Bosqua

2191
02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:26,960
Speaker 1: as record, which you know, it's kind of weird that

2192
02:07:27,000 --> 02:07:29,000
Speaker 1: you two are paired together and we didn't know that

2193
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:33,120
Speaker 1: back then. But you know here in the space intro,

2194
02:07:34,400 --> 02:07:38,080
Speaker 1: which Steve will probably want to kill me, because any

2195
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:43,960
Speaker 1: space intro is just my go to reference point for

2196
02:07:44,240 --> 02:07:47,600
Speaker 1: anything that in my head that's like slow motion or

2197
02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:51,680
Speaker 1: needs atmosphere and whatever like, that's my my go to

2198
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:54,960
Speaker 1: reference for any keyboard play we ever had, Steve.

2199
02:07:55,880 --> 02:07:58,160
Speaker 2: So I was listening to one of your records today

2200
02:07:58,200 --> 02:08:03,960
Speaker 2: before I came over. I think I understood that, Well,

2201
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:06,520
Speaker 2: it's kind of like we could do. This is the

2202
02:08:06,600 --> 02:08:07,560
Speaker 2: same stuff we're.

2203
02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:10,520
Speaker 1: Just yeah, just me, when I was a kid, it

2204
02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:11,800
Speaker 1: made me feel like I could fly.

2205
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to. That's that's great because that's

2206
02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:23,680
Speaker 2: exactly what the way it made me feel when I

2207
02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:26,040
Speaker 2: was playing it and discovering it and doing it, and

2208
02:08:26,160 --> 02:08:31,240
Speaker 2: it was so magical to do that, you know, And

2209
02:08:33,040 --> 02:08:37,680
Speaker 2: I I I had this this thought, you know when

2210
02:08:38,440 --> 02:08:41,600
Speaker 2: before I came over today, because I was listening to

2211
02:08:41,680 --> 02:08:47,040
Speaker 2: some things and I kind of went, yeah, this is

2212
02:08:47,200 --> 02:08:49,480
Speaker 2: this is like the same kind of work like this

2213
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:53,000
Speaker 2: is these are these people, and I mean this is

2214
02:08:53,160 --> 02:08:55,840
Speaker 2: like what I'm doing, This is where where I am

2215
02:08:56,800 --> 02:08:59,040
Speaker 2: when I'm in the studio, when I'm laying back, and

2216
02:08:59,160 --> 02:09:02,720
Speaker 2: I kept thinking like of Macho City, Dude.

2217
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:05,560
Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about Manso City because freaking

2218
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:10,400
Speaker 1: hip hop. Like when when you're creating Mancho City and

2219
02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:13,400
Speaker 1: the political rap that comes with it, it's like a

2220
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:18,000
Speaker 1: year before the message. What what were you thinking?

2221
02:09:18,080 --> 02:09:18,480
Speaker 2: Like were you.

2222
02:09:20,040 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 1: As far as like, okay, well, hip hop is is?

2223
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:25,040
Speaker 1: I was just going to be a thing because hip

2224
02:09:25,320 --> 02:09:26,960
Speaker 1: hip hop really wasn't a thing.

2225
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:30,040
Speaker 2: Here's what you can't understand. I was thinking about hip

2226
02:09:30,040 --> 02:09:32,720
Speaker 2: hop at all. I was just doing something.

2227
02:09:34,240 --> 02:09:36,600
Speaker 1: So you didn't hear any Grandmaster Flash records like oh

2228
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:40,880
Speaker 1: we could know. I was believe you too, because you know,

2229
02:09:41,120 --> 02:09:48,280
Speaker 1: I was just doing what I do and that's it

2230
02:09:48,480 --> 02:09:50,400
Speaker 1: wasn't new wave. It has it's sort of a new

2231
02:09:51,320 --> 02:09:55,080
Speaker 1: like when new wave came. Like were you aborted? Because

2232
02:09:55,160 --> 02:09:59,160
Speaker 1: I felt like if you didn't do Macho City, probably

2233
02:09:59,240 --> 02:10:03,200
Speaker 1: talking heads cause have attempted to do it. Who are

2234
02:10:03,200 --> 02:10:04,360
Speaker 1: your peers in that moment that.

2235
02:10:04,760 --> 02:10:07,720
Speaker 2: I didn't have any peers because what what? What had

2236
02:10:07,880 --> 02:10:17,400
Speaker 2: happened was I had uh been sort of, I had.

2237
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 2: I had done Abercadabra, I'd played these shows, I'd been

2238
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:27,280
Speaker 2: playing football stadiums. American Record Company said, Abricadabra sucks, We're

2239
02:10:27,320 --> 02:10:30,240
Speaker 2: not going to do anything with it, and sorry, and

2240
02:10:30,360 --> 02:10:33,080
Speaker 2: I said, okay, well, I'm canceling my United States tour.

2241
02:10:33,120 --> 02:10:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to Europe then, because I had a different

2242
02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:38,400
Speaker 2: deal with Phonogram from Capital. I went to Europe, and

2243
02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:41,760
Speaker 2: it was number one all over Europe. In the United States,

2244
02:10:41,840 --> 02:10:48,640
Speaker 2: it was in Europe, but not it was phone so

2245
02:10:49,240 --> 02:10:54,120
Speaker 2: so it was number one everywhere. And and I came back.

2246
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:57,520
Speaker 2: I did a whole big tour of Europe and came

2247
02:10:57,600 --> 02:11:00,240
Speaker 2: back to the States, and now it was like coming

2248
02:11:00,360 --> 02:11:02,400
Speaker 2: up the charts, and then it finally went to number one.

2249
02:11:03,160 --> 02:11:06,920
Speaker 2: And I got back and the sheds had just opened.

2250
02:11:07,000 --> 02:11:11,200
Speaker 2: It's nineteen eighty three, I think, and I had booked

2251
02:11:11,240 --> 02:11:15,280
Speaker 2: eleven of them, and I'd been playing football stadiums. I

2252
02:11:15,400 --> 02:11:17,240
Speaker 2: got back at nineteen eighty three and there were like

2253
02:11:17,320 --> 02:11:20,320
Speaker 2: three thousand people in each at each gig, and it

2254
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:22,360
Speaker 2: was a whole new place and a whole new thing,

2255
02:11:23,320 --> 02:11:26,400
Speaker 2: and I was just kind of going, like God, my

2256
02:11:26,520 --> 02:11:28,600
Speaker 2: business is it? Okay, Now I'm at the end, man,

2257
02:11:28,600 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 2: all right. I sold them, you know, twenty million albums,

2258
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:33,920
Speaker 2: and I played football stadiums and I did all this stuff.

2259
02:11:34,360 --> 02:11:36,839
Speaker 2: But I ain't going to come back and playing places

2260
02:11:36,920 --> 02:11:40,320
Speaker 2: that are like a quarter full and so and at

2261
02:11:40,360 --> 02:11:44,360
Speaker 2: the same time, all the press stuff like I think

2262
02:11:44,440 --> 02:11:48,200
Speaker 2: at the same time, I think Macho City in the

2263
02:11:48,440 --> 02:11:51,880
Speaker 2: La Times called it unmitigated slop and said that the

2264
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:55,520
Speaker 2: Capitol Records should be embarrassed for releasing my work as

2265
02:11:55,520 --> 02:11:58,560
Speaker 2: an artist. And then they ran it again at New

2266
02:11:58,640 --> 02:12:01,760
Speaker 2: Year's you know, like that. It was. It really hurt.

2267
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:05,520
Speaker 2: So so I just kind of went like, okay, that's it.

2268
02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:09,240
Speaker 2: I'm I'm out of here. So I didn't tour for

2269
02:12:10,360 --> 02:12:10,960
Speaker 2: six years.

2270
02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:13,000
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you let that.

2271
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 2: Hamper you No, no, yeah, that was the final straw.

2272
02:12:19,320 --> 02:12:21,600
Speaker 2: But I had I had just been on the road

2273
02:12:21,760 --> 02:12:25,920
Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty five nineteen eighty three, and I just

2274
02:12:26,920 --> 02:12:30,240
Speaker 2: just I mean, I was really tired of the whole thing.

2275
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:32,920
Speaker 2: And I didn't have any a manager, and I didn't

2276
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:37,400
Speaker 2: have any plan. I just you know, whatever happened happened,

2277
02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:40,160
Speaker 2: and I worked when I worked it to my advantage

2278
02:12:40,200 --> 02:12:42,960
Speaker 2: as much as I could, and I was tired. I

2279
02:12:43,080 --> 02:12:43,680
Speaker 2: needed a break.

2280
02:12:43,800 --> 02:12:47,560
Speaker 1: So were you wear that like amazing mojo not mojojo?

2281
02:12:47,720 --> 02:12:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2282
02:12:47,920 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 1: It let you like they were playing that on black

2283
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:55,200
Speaker 1: radio up at Detroit, like in heavy rotation, like that

2284
02:12:55,520 --> 02:12:57,760
Speaker 1: song had legs on it.

2285
02:12:58,080 --> 02:13:03,200
Speaker 2: No see, you know, like come no, I was living

2286
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:04,360
Speaker 2: in a farm in Oregon.

2287
02:13:07,040 --> 02:13:07,840
Speaker 1: That's a good answer.

2288
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:13,240
Speaker 2: It was good. And you know, that's that's the world

2289
02:13:13,360 --> 02:13:16,320
Speaker 2: I want to live in, where everybody where all cultures

2290
02:13:16,360 --> 02:13:19,440
Speaker 2: are intertwined, and people are all listening to each other,

2291
02:13:19,480 --> 02:13:22,520
Speaker 2: and the audience is diverse, and the music is diverse,

2292
02:13:22,600 --> 02:13:25,000
Speaker 2: and you know, in an odd sense, that's kind of

2293
02:13:25,040 --> 02:13:28,600
Speaker 2: what was cool about San Francisco is that it was diverse.

2294
02:13:28,680 --> 02:13:30,800
Speaker 2: You know, on Monday night, it might be Johnny Cash,

2295
02:13:30,840 --> 02:13:33,560
Speaker 2: and on Tuesday night it might be the Modern Jazz Quartet,

2296
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:37,240
Speaker 2: And on Wednesday night it'd be you know, Quicksilver Messenger Service,

2297
02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:40,040
Speaker 2: and on Thursday night it'd be Muddy Waters, you know,

2298
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:44,080
Speaker 2: and it was very diverse. Or Roland Kirk or you know,

2299
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:47,120
Speaker 2: Charles Lloyd or a lot of people were just coming

2300
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:50,920
Speaker 2: through all the time. That's the world I want to

2301
02:13:51,400 --> 02:13:55,280
Speaker 2: live in and play in and breed in. And you know,

2302
02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:58,320
Speaker 2: be in. That's that's the way I feel.

2303
02:13:58,400 --> 02:14:00,440
Speaker 1: Okay. You know, like when someone tells you joke and

2304
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:04,280
Speaker 1: then you get the punchline like five years later. Yeah, okay,

2305
02:14:04,400 --> 02:14:07,440
Speaker 1: that just happened to me. So I hate going back

2306
02:14:07,480 --> 02:14:10,800
Speaker 1: to the filmore. But you said, Rashaan Rolling Kirk.

2307
02:14:10,760 --> 02:14:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, Now we used to jam all the time.

2308
02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:17,160
Speaker 1: This is what I gotta know. With these jazz pairings

2309
02:14:18,080 --> 02:14:22,280
Speaker 1: come into the film, Moore, were they truly open or

2310
02:14:22,400 --> 02:14:25,160
Speaker 1: did it just look good on the poster? Like looking

2311
02:14:25,240 --> 02:14:29,120
Speaker 1: on the poster, it's like, you know, air clapped in

2312
02:14:29,240 --> 02:14:36,000
Speaker 1: cream and I'm using hypothetical John Coltran in essence, did

2313
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:38,280
Speaker 1: it really work that night? Or were there people that

2314
02:14:38,360 --> 02:14:40,000
Speaker 1: were just like, all right, let me know when the

2315
02:14:40,040 --> 02:14:42,560
Speaker 1: sunshine of your love guy comes home outside from smoke?

2316
02:14:42,920 --> 02:14:42,960
Speaker 10: No?

2317
02:14:43,080 --> 02:14:46,160
Speaker 1: No, no, it was like, were they truly open to.

2318
02:14:46,880 --> 02:14:52,879
Speaker 2: You don't understand, man. It was an The whole building

2319
02:14:53,080 --> 02:14:55,720
Speaker 2: was different. It wasn't like when you go to work

2320
02:14:55,760 --> 02:14:58,200
Speaker 2: and tickets are sold and managers are there and pop

2321
02:14:58,280 --> 02:15:01,320
Speaker 2: stars are there and big video screens are on and

2322
02:15:01,520 --> 02:15:04,080
Speaker 2: people are in control and people are being wound up

2323
02:15:04,120 --> 02:15:07,440
Speaker 2: to be hysterical and ship like that. That's Rolling Stones

2324
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:11,920
Speaker 2: English Ship. This was like warm and real and great.

2325
02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:14,440
Speaker 2: I used to go see Rolan Kirk on Sunday afternoon.

2326
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:17,000
Speaker 2: He'd play a set Sunday afternoon and play another set

2327
02:15:17,080 --> 02:15:21,640
Speaker 2: Sunday night, or he was whatever he and you know

2328
02:15:21,720 --> 02:15:33,840
Speaker 2: who you remind me of. I don't say it the drummer, No, no, no, Buddy, Buddy.

2329
02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:36,440
Speaker 2: I know Buddy really, really, really well. I was there

2330
02:15:36,680 --> 02:15:39,040
Speaker 2: the day Buddy came to town. He came to my house.

2331
02:15:39,080 --> 02:15:41,440
Speaker 2: I definitely wanted to steal him from Mike Bloomfield right

2332
02:15:41,440 --> 02:15:43,160
Speaker 2: away and put a band together with him, because he

2333
02:15:43,320 --> 02:15:45,600
Speaker 2: was really cool. He went on a long pad trip

2334
02:15:45,680 --> 02:15:47,760
Speaker 2: and had you know, a lot of bad things happened

2335
02:15:47,760 --> 02:15:51,280
Speaker 2: to him. But I don't know if you know much

2336
02:15:51,280 --> 02:16:01,040
Speaker 2: about Clift Engineer. It's Cajun blues, accordion blues. And the

2337
02:16:01,160 --> 02:16:03,600
Speaker 2: drummer sits in the middle of the stage with his

2338
02:16:03,760 --> 02:16:05,880
Speaker 2: drums like at this level, and it's like he's got

2339
02:16:05,920 --> 02:16:11,520
Speaker 2: a bat and he's just going and things are happening

2340
02:16:11,600 --> 02:16:13,640
Speaker 2: in the little bass player and the guitar player doing

2341
02:16:13,680 --> 02:16:15,760
Speaker 2: a little steps and bomping up to the side and

2342
02:16:15,880 --> 02:16:18,000
Speaker 2: off to the side, and Clifton sineers in the middle

2343
02:16:18,040 --> 02:16:20,840
Speaker 2: and there's a guy on his knees playing his chest,

2344
02:16:20,960 --> 02:16:24,640
Speaker 2: you know, playing the thing, and some of the greatest

2345
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:29,040
Speaker 2: music man funky funky funky stuff. That stuff was going

2346
02:16:29,080 --> 02:16:33,480
Speaker 2: on all the time, and everybody was high the lights

2347
02:16:33,600 --> 02:16:37,080
Speaker 2: the whole thing. It was like not like show business.

2348
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:39,680
Speaker 2: It was a different It was like church, man, a

2349
02:16:39,840 --> 02:16:44,240
Speaker 2: musical church is what it ended up being. That was

2350
02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:48,400
Speaker 2: being manipulated by certain groups and certain people. But in

2351
02:16:48,560 --> 02:16:51,560
Speaker 2: spite of the Bill Graham's of the world, you know,

2352
02:16:51,800 --> 02:16:54,680
Speaker 2: because while all this was going on, Bill Graham was

2353
02:16:54,720 --> 02:16:58,440
Speaker 2: stealing from everybody, you know, stealing from the group, stealing

2354
02:16:58,480 --> 02:17:01,119
Speaker 2: from the people, over selling the stuff, doing lying about

2355
02:17:01,160 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 2: the books, bullshitting everybody, you know. But in spite of

2356
02:17:05,720 --> 02:17:11,160
Speaker 2: all of that, there was this really great heart and

2357
02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:13,200
Speaker 2: soul changing musical scene going on.

2358
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:17,320
Speaker 13: So with the song, with the song the Joker, you

2359
02:17:17,400 --> 02:17:21,680
Speaker 13: had this global hit basically right, and that was humongo humongous.

2360
02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:23,240
Speaker 1: So and then.

2361
02:17:24,879 --> 02:17:27,520
Speaker 13: Did you feel did something click at that point where

2362
02:17:27,560 --> 02:17:31,040
Speaker 13: you said, Okay, now I understand what's going to truly

2363
02:17:31,560 --> 02:17:33,960
Speaker 13: help me translate to the pop charts and have mega

2364
02:17:34,040 --> 02:17:38,400
Speaker 13: hits and then sort of start pumping out like once

2365
02:17:38,480 --> 02:17:40,760
Speaker 13: you had just said okay, wow, I found a unique

2366
02:17:40,800 --> 02:17:41,200
Speaker 13: sound here.

2367
02:17:41,400 --> 02:17:44,240
Speaker 2: It was. It was different than that. When I left down.

2368
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:49,480
Speaker 2: The Joker was my last album at Capitol Records. Nobody

2369
02:17:49,600 --> 02:17:52,600
Speaker 2: was talking to me about renewing my contract. It was

2370
02:17:52,680 --> 02:17:56,160
Speaker 2: the first album where I kicked all the producers and everybody.

2371
02:17:56,200 --> 02:17:59,400
Speaker 2: I was the first record I produced myself with just

2372
02:17:59,520 --> 02:18:02,440
Speaker 2: by my So The Joker was yeah. And I brought

2373
02:18:02,520 --> 02:18:04,040
Speaker 2: my band in for two days and cut all the

2374
02:18:04,120 --> 02:18:06,760
Speaker 2: tracks and sent them home and then spent fifteen days

2375
02:18:06,879 --> 02:18:09,360
Speaker 2: doing the vocal overdubs and all this stuff and mixing

2376
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 2: it and putting it together. And I had this little

2377
02:18:11,560 --> 02:18:14,960
Speaker 2: playback for the record company, and some kid in the

2378
02:18:15,040 --> 02:18:17,800
Speaker 2: playback meeting said that Joker, I like that. I think

2379
02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:19,840
Speaker 2: I think that could be a hit single. And I

2380
02:18:20,800 --> 02:18:23,119
Speaker 2: turned to him and I said, I don't care about

2381
02:18:23,200 --> 02:18:26,480
Speaker 2: hit singles anymore, you know, because I couldn't get played

2382
02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:29,800
Speaker 2: on AM radio every single I put. I mean, just

2383
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:34,160
Speaker 2: could not do it. So I said, here's an album,

2384
02:18:34,360 --> 02:18:37,279
Speaker 2: here's a list. I'm going to go play sixty cities

2385
02:18:37,320 --> 02:18:40,040
Speaker 2: in the next ninety days. Just have some records in

2386
02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:43,520
Speaker 2: the towns where I'm playing this time. Okay, thank you

2387
02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:49,720
Speaker 2: very much, goodbye, and I got back from that tour

2388
02:18:49,760 --> 02:18:51,920
Speaker 2: of ninety days later and there was a check in

2389
02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:55,199
Speaker 2: my mailbox for three hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars

2390
02:18:55,440 --> 02:19:02,920
Speaker 2: in the junk mail. Kind of went holy yo. And

2391
02:19:03,240 --> 02:19:05,080
Speaker 2: I called up my agent and said, I'm taking the

2392
02:19:05,200 --> 02:19:06,120
Speaker 2: next year off.

2393
02:19:08,000 --> 02:19:09,520
Speaker 1: You didn't want to strike while the iron was hot?

2394
02:19:09,640 --> 02:19:12,840
Speaker 2: No, Well, I went. Two things happened. I went to

2395
02:19:12,920 --> 02:19:15,880
Speaker 2: the studio to Capitol to try and do something. I

2396
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:19,879
Speaker 2: was exhausted. I was so burned out, man. They said,

2397
02:19:20,040 --> 02:19:22,720
Speaker 2: I can't. I haven't written anything, I can't think of anything.

2398
02:19:23,280 --> 02:19:26,440
Speaker 2: I'm wasting money here. Let's stop. So we stopped for

2399
02:19:26,480 --> 02:19:29,480
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. Then I went up to Seattle

2400
02:19:29,560 --> 02:19:34,000
Speaker 2: and I booked a studio up there, flew the band up.

2401
02:19:34,200 --> 02:19:37,680
Speaker 2: The band got there and quit. They flew to Seattle,

2402
02:19:37,800 --> 02:19:43,160
Speaker 2: had quit in mass And I said, and Gerald was there,

2403
02:19:43,200 --> 02:19:45,840
Speaker 2: and Gerald was giving me all this stuff, and I

2404
02:19:45,920 --> 02:19:49,560
Speaker 2: said Gerald, Gerald trilled, listen, never really tired, don't burn

2405
02:19:49,560 --> 02:19:53,280
Speaker 2: any bridges. We may want to work together again. Don't

2406
02:19:53,360 --> 02:19:58,040
Speaker 2: say it now, man. So they all quit, and I

2407
02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 2: was just sitting there kind of going like, yeah, we're done.

2408
02:20:01,240 --> 02:20:04,240
Speaker 2: We had been struggling for so long. For so hard

2409
02:20:05,480 --> 02:20:10,080
Speaker 2: trying to get this done, and so I took I

2410
02:20:10,240 --> 02:20:11,640
Speaker 2: was going to take a year off, and I took

2411
02:20:11,760 --> 02:20:16,840
Speaker 2: eighteen months off. And what it did was it allowed

2412
02:20:16,959 --> 02:20:23,200
Speaker 2: me to sit down and think, and I basically lived

2413
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:27,920
Speaker 2: alone by myself for eighteen months. And about eight months

2414
02:20:27,959 --> 02:20:32,720
Speaker 2: into it, I called up Lonnie and Gary Gary Malbora drummer,

2415
02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:34,880
Speaker 2: Lonnie Turner bass player, took him into the studio in

2416
02:20:34,920 --> 02:20:40,920
Speaker 2: San Francisco, cut twenty two tracks in eleven days, sent

2417
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:43,120
Speaker 2: them home, and then I just went back to my

2418
02:20:43,280 --> 02:20:46,520
Speaker 2: house and engineered everything and just did all the vocals

2419
02:20:46,560 --> 02:20:48,440
Speaker 2: and the guitar parts over and over and over and

2420
02:20:48,560 --> 02:20:51,560
Speaker 2: over and over, and just worked on this thing that

2421
02:20:51,680 --> 02:20:55,320
Speaker 2: felt like a masterpiece. And I just kept working on it,

2422
02:20:55,400 --> 02:20:57,040
Speaker 2: and I had to race it all, and I'd do

2423
02:20:57,120 --> 02:20:59,760
Speaker 2: it again. I'd race it all, and I'd do it again.

2424
02:21:00,280 --> 02:21:02,320
Speaker 2: I had an eight track tape recorder and there were

2425
02:21:02,440 --> 02:21:06,040
Speaker 2: two tracks with the stereo mix. One track had a

2426
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:09,240
Speaker 2: sink tone. So they gave me five open tracks, and

2427
02:21:09,440 --> 02:21:12,120
Speaker 2: so I did everything that way. I had five open tracks,

2428
02:21:13,040 --> 02:21:17,840
Speaker 2: and when I got it all finished, I basically had

2429
02:21:18,800 --> 02:21:21,640
Speaker 2: done everything that I had set out to do. McCartney

2430
02:21:21,720 --> 02:21:24,320
Speaker 2: had the thing with the Beatles in sixty nine was

2431
02:21:24,480 --> 02:21:26,680
Speaker 2: I went there and when I saw what they had

2432
02:21:26,720 --> 02:21:30,920
Speaker 2: in the can, I just went, oh my god, they've

2433
02:21:30,959 --> 02:21:34,720
Speaker 2: got forty six songs in the can. God, there are

2434
02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:39,800
Speaker 2: four albums ahead. They're ahead. That's how they do this timing,

2435
02:21:39,959 --> 02:21:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, that's how it is. It's not like the

2436
02:21:42,040 --> 02:21:44,200
Speaker 2: boys are trying to write something. They'll be back in

2437
02:21:44,280 --> 02:21:44,920
Speaker 2: eighteen months.

2438
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:45,120
Speaker 1: You know.

2439
02:21:45,560 --> 02:21:48,560
Speaker 2: They were way ahead. And Paul, you know, told me

2440
02:21:48,600 --> 02:21:50,119
Speaker 2: about that, and so I went, I got to get

2441
02:21:50,280 --> 02:21:54,520
Speaker 2: two albums ahead. So I had all these singles and

2442
02:21:54,640 --> 02:21:59,600
Speaker 2: I was looking at them and I knew what FM

2443
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:04,000
Speaker 2: rate is needed. I wasn't thinking about AM radio. I

2444
02:22:04,160 --> 02:22:05,920
Speaker 2: had to help build FM radio.

2445
02:22:05,959 --> 02:22:09,439
Speaker 1: So you purposely did that, Yeah, okay.

2446
02:22:09,680 --> 02:22:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was making an album for you know,

2447
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:14,920
Speaker 2: AM radio wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole.

2448
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:17,400
Speaker 2: You know. They did with The Joker, but you know,

2449
02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:20,280
Speaker 2: and they really did. I mean, when I came back

2450
02:22:20,320 --> 02:22:22,640
Speaker 2: from that tour the Joker was, I remember driving to

2451
02:22:22,720 --> 02:22:25,400
Speaker 2: do a gig in Oakland and putting the radio and

2452
02:22:25,520 --> 02:22:28,040
Speaker 2: just going through to see where it was on. And

2453
02:22:28,160 --> 02:22:31,560
Speaker 2: it was on four of the five top forty stations

2454
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:33,360
Speaker 2: et CE. So what I was pissed off because it

2455
02:22:33,440 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 2: was none there's no joy in any of this. You know,

2456
02:22:38,680 --> 02:22:40,680
Speaker 2: you never stop and go. Isn't this great?

2457
02:22:40,760 --> 02:22:41,080
Speaker 10: It was like.

2458
02:22:42,800 --> 02:22:47,280
Speaker 2: But so I knew that I was writing something really

2459
02:22:47,360 --> 02:22:51,360
Speaker 2: great for FM radio, that I was writing something great

2460
02:22:51,440 --> 02:22:55,920
Speaker 2: for radio itself, that this was how radio needed to sound,

2461
02:22:56,600 --> 02:22:58,680
Speaker 2: that this was where it needed to go. It was

2462
02:22:58,760 --> 02:23:03,760
Speaker 2: the material they needed. And my you know, songwriting of

2463
02:23:03,840 --> 02:23:06,920
Speaker 2: my music was going on at the same time, and

2464
02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:09,640
Speaker 2: my understanding of how to make records had grown quite

2465
02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:12,800
Speaker 2: a bit. And I worked on it and worked on

2466
02:23:12,879 --> 02:23:14,400
Speaker 2: it and worked on it and worked on it. When

2467
02:23:14,440 --> 02:23:18,280
Speaker 2: I was finished, I took it myself, took the tape

2468
02:23:18,680 --> 02:23:21,920
Speaker 2: and I had two slides, the cover and the back

2469
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:24,000
Speaker 2: of flylike an Eagle, and I took it to the president.

2470
02:23:24,040 --> 02:23:28,520
Speaker 2: I said, this is going to sell four million copies anyway.

2471
02:23:30,040 --> 02:23:32,120
Speaker 2: He said, well, let's go down and see the art department.

2472
02:23:32,320 --> 02:23:35,520
Speaker 2: So we went down and talked to John Vandervelt and

2473
02:23:35,560 --> 02:23:38,880
Speaker 2: he did the cover just like that and put it

2474
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:40,720
Speaker 2: out and.

2475
02:23:40,760 --> 02:23:41,560
Speaker 1: We ended up like.

2476
02:23:44,480 --> 02:23:50,520
Speaker 2: Dominating AM radio and FM radio at its height when

2477
02:23:50,560 --> 02:23:52,520
Speaker 2: it sold when I said, when both of them were

2478
02:23:52,520 --> 02:23:55,879
Speaker 2: at its most powerful. And so it was a great

2479
02:23:56,000 --> 02:23:59,720
Speaker 2: time to you know, my timing was right. Everything just

2480
02:24:00,240 --> 02:24:02,680
Speaker 2: my creative work came together at the right time, and

2481
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:06,440
Speaker 2: the whole thing just went way, way up. I think

2482
02:24:06,480 --> 02:24:11,880
Speaker 2: we sold god thirteen million records and I don't know

2483
02:24:12,280 --> 02:24:15,080
Speaker 2: two and a half three years something like that, and

2484
02:24:15,360 --> 02:24:19,760
Speaker 2: had a lot of singles and dominated Airplane. It was

2485
02:24:19,800 --> 02:24:23,960
Speaker 2: really the thing for me that was cool was that

2486
02:24:24,040 --> 02:24:27,480
Speaker 2: when the FM radio put the record on, they played

2487
02:24:27,480 --> 02:24:30,080
Speaker 2: the whole side. Yes, for the first three months. Man,

2488
02:24:30,120 --> 02:24:33,680
Speaker 2: they never took it off. And that was always part

2489
02:24:33,760 --> 02:24:35,840
Speaker 2: of the thing was I wanted those segues to just

2490
02:24:36,040 --> 02:24:38,560
Speaker 2: bring people in. And you know, when I listened to music,

2491
02:24:38,640 --> 02:24:40,959
Speaker 2: that's what I want. I want to go on Bozo

2492
02:24:41,360 --> 02:24:45,640
Speaker 2: Goes to the Circus with John Coltrane, you know, or

2493
02:24:45,760 --> 02:24:49,040
Speaker 2: Miles or whoever it is I'm listening to when I

2494
02:24:49,120 --> 02:24:51,640
Speaker 2: got my eyes closed and I'm in space and I'm

2495
02:24:51,720 --> 02:24:55,280
Speaker 2: listening and I'm feeling and I'm enjoying myself. You know,

2496
02:24:56,200 --> 02:24:57,160
Speaker 2: that's the way I want to be.

2497
02:24:57,360 --> 02:25:02,440
Speaker 13: It's like nice, long good so essentially fly like an

2498
02:25:02,440 --> 02:25:04,560
Speaker 13: Eagle and I guess Book of Dreams. That's that group

2499
02:25:04,640 --> 02:25:06,240
Speaker 13: of songs that you're talking about. They were all sort

2500
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:09,280
Speaker 13: of made it the same same Yeah, same same equipment,

2501
02:25:09,840 --> 02:25:13,640
Speaker 13: same techniques, maybe recording because I was really asking sonically,

2502
02:25:14,320 --> 02:25:14,480
Speaker 13: you know.

2503
02:25:16,680 --> 02:25:19,400
Speaker 2: You know it's funny. It took seventeen hours to mix

2504
02:25:19,560 --> 02:25:21,680
Speaker 2: Fly Like an Eagle, and we did a quad mix

2505
02:25:21,800 --> 02:25:25,200
Speaker 2: to just went in the studios supper quad mix. Yeah.

2506
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:27,000
Speaker 1: You were really big on that, weren't you.

2507
02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:27,959
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I.

2508
02:25:27,959 --> 02:25:29,800
Speaker 1: Didn't have QUI I mean I had the quad versions

2509
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:31,400
Speaker 1: of some of these records, but I don't have the

2510
02:25:31,480 --> 02:25:33,920
Speaker 1: quad needles. Yeah, equipment to.

2511
02:25:34,120 --> 02:25:37,240
Speaker 2: It never sounded any good, you know. But if you're

2512
02:25:37,280 --> 02:25:39,720
Speaker 2: in a Westwood room, like these are Westwood speakers here,

2513
02:25:40,360 --> 02:25:42,840
Speaker 2: and uh, you know this is prob. Maybe this is

2514
02:25:42,879 --> 02:25:46,000
Speaker 2: a Western room. It looks like one, and uh, you know,

2515
02:25:46,600 --> 02:25:48,120
Speaker 2: we could get the tape here and play it and

2516
02:25:48,160 --> 02:25:52,359
Speaker 2: it'd be going. But you know, like stockhausm Man Stockhausen

2517
02:25:52,400 --> 02:25:56,160
Speaker 2: built a circle. Two Jesus, don't put them together for

2518
02:25:56,160 --> 02:25:59,879
Speaker 2: a circle. But the floor in the middle brought the stairs.

2519
02:26:00,160 --> 02:26:03,120
Speaker 2: This is that the Japanese World's Fair. Yeah, stairs up

2520
02:26:03,120 --> 02:26:04,440
Speaker 2: and you go up in the middle and you walk

2521
02:26:04,480 --> 02:26:06,920
Speaker 2: to it, and the speakers, the sounds going underneath you

2522
02:26:07,000 --> 02:26:11,920
Speaker 2: and going like this all around you in circles, you know,

2523
02:26:12,160 --> 02:26:15,960
Speaker 2: like three sixty for real. Underneath you and above you,

2524
02:26:16,760 --> 02:26:18,920
Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff just makes the horizon

2525
02:26:19,720 --> 02:26:23,279
Speaker 2: better and bigger and more delicious.

2526
02:26:24,360 --> 02:26:26,080
Speaker 10: I don't know if I want my music sneaking up

2527
02:26:26,080 --> 02:26:27,280
Speaker 10: from me from behind.

2528
02:26:27,360 --> 02:26:27,560
Speaker 7: You know.

2529
02:26:33,440 --> 02:26:36,040
Speaker 13: We're currently here at Electric Lady Studios in New York,

2530
02:26:36,360 --> 02:26:37,440
Speaker 13: home of Jimi Hendrix.

2531
02:26:37,840 --> 02:26:40,520
Speaker 10: I never recorded here, ever been here at all.

2532
02:26:42,320 --> 02:26:44,320
Speaker 2: No, I think this is my first time here. Wow,

2533
02:26:45,080 --> 02:26:48,560
Speaker 2: we brought him here, you did, Thank you very much

2534
02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:49,600
Speaker 2: for inviting me, And.

2535
02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:54,840
Speaker 10: Well, I just guitars and stuff. You know you clearly like.

2536
02:26:54,920 --> 02:26:58,800
Speaker 9: Them, so you know, I mean, Steve wanted to make

2537
02:26:58,800 --> 02:27:01,200
Speaker 9: sure you were somewhere special. Seriously, he was like, we

2538
02:27:01,320 --> 02:27:03,360
Speaker 9: can't we have to have Steve Miller in Electric Lader.

2539
02:27:03,480 --> 02:27:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only right, Okay, I would be remiss. And

2540
02:27:06,080 --> 02:27:08,960
Speaker 1: I know you're tired of telling him about your account

2541
02:27:09,000 --> 02:27:10,840
Speaker 1: of it. I want to ask about the Rock and

2542
02:27:10,959 --> 02:27:16,280
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. Oh yeah, the year later, do

2543
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:17,400
Speaker 1: you feel better about it?

2544
02:27:17,560 --> 02:27:19,000
Speaker 8: Or what's the controversy? I'm sorry?

2545
02:27:19,080 --> 02:27:19,440
Speaker 2: Brief me.

2546
02:27:19,840 --> 02:27:23,600
Speaker 10: Well, I mean, are you are you not in it?

2547
02:27:25,040 --> 02:27:25,440
Speaker 2: He's in it.

2548
02:27:25,560 --> 02:27:28,080
Speaker 1: Yes, he's been inducted. I watched him getting dun Okay, yes,

2549
02:27:28,520 --> 02:27:30,960
Speaker 1: you were there with ut I was sitting next to

2550
02:27:31,040 --> 02:27:33,439
Speaker 1: David Burton dudekay, amazing. I totally forgot.

2551
02:27:34,959 --> 02:27:39,880
Speaker 2: You red sticky fingers, right, yes, yeah, that's that's the

2552
02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:41,840
Speaker 2: problem with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

2553
02:27:41,959 --> 02:27:46,240
Speaker 1: So I don't get that right. So half the staff

2554
02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:47,840
Speaker 1: is on, well what what.

2555
02:27:48,800 --> 02:27:51,160
Speaker 2: What bothered me about the Rock and Roll Hall of

2556
02:27:51,240 --> 02:27:54,560
Speaker 2: Fame was and and I said all of this in

2557
02:27:54,680 --> 02:27:59,520
Speaker 2: the Billboard article the next day was Uh. There was

2558
02:27:59,680 --> 02:28:02,720
Speaker 2: no gathering, there was no party, there was no dinner,

2559
02:28:02,840 --> 02:28:05,160
Speaker 2: there was no anything from the Rock and Roll Hall

2560
02:28:05,160 --> 02:28:07,840
Speaker 2: of Fame at all. I wasn't introduced to any of

2561
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:13,400
Speaker 2: the inductees, not introduced to one I was met at.

2562
02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:17,359
Speaker 2: I was told that no, I couldn't make any suggestions

2563
02:28:17,400 --> 02:28:21,320
Speaker 2: about who I wanted to induct. I was told that

2564
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:24,880
Speaker 2: if I wanted extra tickets for my band, Remember there

2565
02:28:24,920 --> 02:28:28,879
Speaker 2: were ten thousand dollars apiece at my table, ten thousand

2566
02:28:28,920 --> 02:28:32,360
Speaker 2: dollars a ticket. I was set a contract that was

2567
02:28:32,840 --> 02:28:35,920
Speaker 2: worse than any record contract I'd ever seen in my life,

2568
02:28:35,959 --> 02:28:40,160
Speaker 2: that was so purposely written in a way that was

2569
02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:43,680
Speaker 2: impossible to understand that I would I just laughed at it.

2570
02:28:44,480 --> 02:28:48,879
Speaker 2: And I was asked to start, you know, giving over things,

2571
02:28:49,840 --> 02:28:57,520
Speaker 2: delivering guitars, giving special stuff and the contractually. There was

2572
02:28:57,640 --> 02:29:00,320
Speaker 2: like a three month argument before I ever got there.

2573
02:29:00,760 --> 02:29:03,920
Speaker 2: So when I got there, some women came up to

2574
02:29:04,000 --> 02:29:07,960
Speaker 2: me and goes, hi, my name's Shirley, and I'm your minder.

2575
02:29:08,760 --> 02:29:13,240
Speaker 2: I'm from like you know, entertainment services or something, you know,

2576
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:15,320
Speaker 2: with a clipboard, and took me to a little cement

2577
02:29:15,480 --> 02:29:17,800
Speaker 2: room with two metal chairs. Took Janie and I there

2578
02:29:17,840 --> 02:29:19,840
Speaker 2: and said we need you to wait here for an

2579
02:29:19,879 --> 02:29:21,680
Speaker 2: hour and then we're gonna call you and we're gonna

2580
02:29:21,720 --> 02:29:28,960
Speaker 2: come down and do this thing. Right. So you know

2581
02:29:29,080 --> 02:29:32,320
Speaker 2: I was going to do that. So I went out

2582
02:29:32,320 --> 02:29:34,280
Speaker 2: of the hall, ran into a few people and stuff

2583
02:29:34,360 --> 02:29:36,400
Speaker 2: like that, and then there was some little sort of

2584
02:29:36,800 --> 02:29:39,920
Speaker 2: cocktail party that was open to anybody and everybody, kind

2585
02:29:39,959 --> 02:29:44,400
Speaker 2: of a hustler party, and got out of that. Next day,

2586
02:29:44,440 --> 02:29:46,640
Speaker 2: we go to do the soundcheck. We're giving like about

2587
02:29:46,680 --> 02:29:52,360
Speaker 2: twelve minutes. My house mixer can't mix my monitor. Man's

2588
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:54,920
Speaker 2: not allowed to use the monitor mixer. We got a

2589
02:29:54,959 --> 02:29:57,800
Speaker 2: guy who's doing the monitor mix and an iPad two

2590
02:29:57,879 --> 02:30:02,000
Speaker 2: hundred feet away. Hurry up, you got twelve minutes. Let's

2591
02:30:02,000 --> 02:30:04,160
Speaker 2: go let's go, let's go get out of here. So

2592
02:30:04,280 --> 02:30:08,720
Speaker 2: we do that, and uh, time goes by, and then

2593
02:30:08,760 --> 02:30:10,640
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's time for the show to start,

2594
02:30:10,879 --> 02:30:15,160
Speaker 2: and somebody just takes me out. And I'm sat at

2595
02:30:15,200 --> 02:30:17,560
Speaker 2: a table where I don't know anyone at the table,

2596
02:30:18,400 --> 02:30:24,360
Speaker 2: so very satisfying. My band, My band is three hundred

2597
02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:28,520
Speaker 2: feet over that way somewhere I hadn't seen them, and

2598
02:30:28,720 --> 02:30:35,320
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there and and I'm I'm sitting here thinking like,

2599
02:30:36,440 --> 02:30:40,760
Speaker 2: let's see, I would have had a party. I would

2600
02:30:40,800 --> 02:30:43,000
Speaker 2: have introduced everybody, and then I would have had, like,

2601
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:45,720
Speaker 2: you know, some little kids from the let's you know,

2602
02:30:45,920 --> 02:30:48,240
Speaker 2: the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Music School come

2603
02:30:48,320 --> 02:30:50,400
Speaker 2: up and play, you know, one of Steve's songs and

2604
02:30:50,520 --> 02:30:53,760
Speaker 2: want to you know, they're whoever, you know, NWA songics whatever,

2605
02:30:54,520 --> 02:30:57,440
Speaker 2: do this, and and then I'd explained about our music

2606
02:30:57,600 --> 02:31:00,240
Speaker 2: education program and how we're really glad I had to

2607
02:31:00,280 --> 02:31:03,200
Speaker 2: have these new inductees together, and we really wanted your

2608
02:31:03,280 --> 02:31:06,640
Speaker 2: help on these programs and wanted to, you know, rope

2609
02:31:06,680 --> 02:31:09,520
Speaker 2: you into the Hall of Fame beacon of light for

2610
02:31:09,680 --> 02:31:13,800
Speaker 2: music education. This was like the coldest grab for a

2611
02:31:13,959 --> 02:31:16,760
Speaker 2: profit to get money for a TV show. And I'm

2612
02:31:16,840 --> 02:31:19,360
Speaker 2: telling you men, when I walked off the stage in

2613
02:31:19,440 --> 02:31:22,360
Speaker 2: the back and these little smarmy kids were going like, hey,

2614
02:31:22,560 --> 02:31:24,120
Speaker 2: so you were up for twenty three years and they

2615
02:31:24,120 --> 02:31:25,760
Speaker 2: didn't put you in. How does that make you feel?

2616
02:31:25,879 --> 02:31:28,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of want to fuck you. You know,

2617
02:31:28,400 --> 02:31:31,480
Speaker 2: I'll you know this that. And I walked out the

2618
02:31:31,640 --> 02:31:34,960
Speaker 2: door man and the door closed, and I had a

2619
02:31:34,959 --> 02:31:37,640
Speaker 2: little statue up in my hand, and my lovely wife

2620
02:31:37,720 --> 02:31:41,120
Speaker 2: with me, and Jimmy Vaughan and Rob and his wife,

2621
02:31:41,160 --> 02:31:43,760
Speaker 2: and we said, well, let's uber a car and go home. Hey,

2622
02:31:43,920 --> 02:31:45,320
Speaker 2: uber a car? Wow?

2623
02:31:45,840 --> 02:31:48,119
Speaker 8: No car to take you. I feel bad for Janice

2624
02:31:48,120 --> 02:31:50,560
Speaker 8: because I know there was a lot of motherfuckers that night, right?

2625
02:31:50,760 --> 02:31:51,680
Speaker 8: Was it a lot in that wrong?

2626
02:31:52,440 --> 02:31:56,920
Speaker 2: You know? That's what. So the way I looked at

2627
02:31:56,959 --> 02:32:01,880
Speaker 2: it was like I could really helped this place. I

2628
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:05,320
Speaker 2: could have really done a lot of good for the

2629
02:32:05,480 --> 02:32:08,960
Speaker 2: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And they didn't even ask,

2630
02:32:09,480 --> 02:32:12,120
Speaker 2: They didn't even they weren't even interested. And I know

2631
02:32:12,320 --> 02:32:14,760
Speaker 2: that I'm in here because they want to make a

2632
02:32:14,840 --> 02:32:19,960
Speaker 2: television show. There are two good things that happened. One was, uh,

2633
02:32:21,720 --> 02:32:32,840
Speaker 2: the night ended Ice Cuban doctor Dre in the middle

2634
02:32:32,879 --> 02:32:35,400
Speaker 2: of them, right, this picture going, this is a cool picture.

2635
02:32:35,440 --> 02:32:37,720
Speaker 2: And I don't really care about pictures and stuff, but

2636
02:32:37,800 --> 02:32:39,520
Speaker 2: I've got this is gonna be a great picture. And

2637
02:32:39,640 --> 02:32:42,240
Speaker 2: I'm really proud to be here. And Soga, So Dre,

2638
02:32:43,360 --> 02:32:45,480
Speaker 2: that was a flylike an eagle you sampled on and

2639
02:32:45,600 --> 02:33:00,600
Speaker 2: Killer Killer right, yeah, I said, that's okay, Okay, it

2640
02:33:00,760 --> 02:33:02,600
Speaker 2: was like classic man, you.

2641
02:33:04,520 --> 02:33:09,160
Speaker 1: Know you don't play that. Okay. My last question, and

2642
02:33:09,280 --> 02:33:15,680
Speaker 1: that's it. I promise your three, just your three, because

2643
02:33:15,680 --> 02:33:19,039
Speaker 1: I know you're passionate about music. Your three all time

2644
02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:24,440
Speaker 1: favorite albums, could you And I don't mean like Desert

2645
02:33:24,560 --> 02:33:30,160
Speaker 1: disc or whatever. Just kind of blue, okay, Miles Davis

2646
02:33:30,160 --> 02:33:30,840
Speaker 1: is kind of blue.

2647
02:33:38,320 --> 02:33:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm not sure the name of the album. It's it's

2648
02:33:41,160 --> 02:33:43,800
Speaker 2: I think it's Bob Crossby and the Bobcats with a

2649
02:33:43,959 --> 02:33:55,400
Speaker 2: big noise from Monetta and honky Tonk trained and probably

2650
02:33:55,640 --> 02:33:59,280
Speaker 2: you know, a Jimmy Reid album. Those are you know,

2651
02:33:59,720 --> 02:34:03,320
Speaker 2: my those are those that's the music that just really

2652
02:34:03,560 --> 02:34:04,360
Speaker 2: rocked my soul.

2653
02:34:05,400 --> 02:34:08,320
Speaker 1: Well, I gotta say I got more than what I'm

2654
02:34:08,879 --> 02:34:11,920
Speaker 1: barking for it because I thought it was just going

2655
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:14,000
Speaker 1: to be the history of the Steve Miller band. But

2656
02:34:14,440 --> 02:34:16,680
Speaker 1: we got way more music.

2657
02:34:16,959 --> 02:34:21,840
Speaker 2: I got more than I bargained for it too, I'm

2658
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:22,280
Speaker 2: saying that.

2659
02:34:22,480 --> 02:34:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like for me, my favorite type of interviews are

2660
02:34:26,920 --> 02:34:31,560
Speaker 1: either engineers or like artists that were there for historical

2661
02:34:31,760 --> 02:34:36,480
Speaker 1: like these historical beatings or you know, historical moments that

2662
02:34:37,160 --> 02:34:39,720
Speaker 1: you never even think about. But yeah, this is such

2663
02:34:39,920 --> 02:34:43,680
Speaker 1: a major major education. Before I signed off, is any

2664
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:45,960
Speaker 1: other historical things happened to you that I don't know about?

2665
02:34:46,000 --> 02:34:48,240
Speaker 10: That dude has jammed with literally every person.

2666
02:34:50,400 --> 02:34:53,720
Speaker 8: Then I was just like, you.

2667
02:34:53,760 --> 02:34:57,519
Speaker 2: Know, next time we'll talk about Otis writing a moderat.

2668
02:35:00,680 --> 02:35:02,280
Speaker 1: Wait, wait we can, we can. We can go for

2669
02:35:02,400 --> 02:35:03,720
Speaker 1: two more minutes. We can go for two minutes.

2670
02:35:06,560 --> 02:35:08,280
Speaker 9: If you're having any pains in your dairy, you should

2671
02:35:08,320 --> 02:35:10,120
Speaker 9: know to Jimmy jam was forced to do this for

2672
02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:11,960
Speaker 9: six hours and didn't even know it.

2673
02:35:14,080 --> 02:35:14,960
Speaker 2: His butt was numb.

2674
02:35:16,200 --> 02:35:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I will sign off now, but as an encore, yes,

2675
02:35:20,160 --> 02:35:24,360
Speaker 1: thank you for tuning the question, and now for our encore,

2676
02:35:24,520 --> 02:35:26,440
Speaker 1: the Otis Writing story by Steve Miller.

2677
02:35:26,680 --> 02:35:32,400
Speaker 2: So, uh, Monterey Pop Festivals, right, and there's a lot

2678
02:35:32,480 --> 02:35:39,560
Speaker 2: of kind of like Johnny Rivers and Laura Nero and uh,

2679
02:35:41,280 --> 02:35:44,680
Speaker 2: it's kind of you know what, what's going on? Right?

2680
02:35:46,040 --> 02:35:49,760
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I'm backstage and I just

2681
02:35:50,040 --> 02:35:54,040
Speaker 2: hear this curve and I just jumped snapped just like

2682
02:35:54,160 --> 02:35:56,440
Speaker 2: that and said, I gotta go, gotta go, gotta go,

2683
02:35:57,879 --> 02:36:01,240
Speaker 2: running to the stage and got up on the stage

2684
02:36:01,560 --> 02:36:06,119
Speaker 2: and Spooker t and the MG's and they're just warming

2685
02:36:06,240 --> 02:36:08,520
Speaker 2: it up. And then I think it was the barcase

2686
02:36:08,640 --> 02:36:13,240
Speaker 2: or the horn section, and the bar case had this

2687
02:36:13,560 --> 02:36:17,760
Speaker 2: trumpet player had this little pocket trumpet and he's like,

2688
02:36:18,400 --> 02:36:20,760
Speaker 2: they're beginning to do these steps and they're just playing

2689
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:22,960
Speaker 2: these instrumentals and they're walking back in this little This

2690
02:36:23,040 --> 02:36:26,240
Speaker 2: little trumpet player is just this mean little guy up

2691
02:36:29,800 --> 02:36:32,280
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting there watching this, just going this is

2692
02:36:32,360 --> 02:36:39,480
Speaker 2: gonna be the greatest thing in the world. And Otis

2693
02:36:39,560 --> 02:36:44,000
Speaker 2: came out on the stage and he grabbed the mic

2694
02:36:44,120 --> 02:36:46,440
Speaker 2: and he just hit the first note and it was

2695
02:36:46,640 --> 02:36:50,360
Speaker 2: like this giant punch to the solar place. The whole

2696
02:36:50,360 --> 02:36:54,840
Speaker 2: audience just went oh, and this mood just came over

2697
02:36:54,959 --> 02:36:59,560
Speaker 2: the whole place and he just killed it. Just didn't

2698
02:36:59,600 --> 02:37:02,520
Speaker 2: stop for a second. Man, the whole show was just

2699
02:37:03,160 --> 02:37:06,440
Speaker 2: the most beautiful show I ever saw in my life.

2700
02:37:06,480 --> 02:37:08,520
Speaker 2: And the last thing I remember about it was like

2701
02:37:08,640 --> 02:37:11,920
Speaker 2: I was standing outside away from it, and I was

2702
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:16,360
Speaker 2: watching people in the parking lot leave and everybody was happy.

2703
02:37:17,520 --> 02:37:19,640
Speaker 2: Everybody man. As far as you could see, there was

2704
02:37:19,800 --> 02:37:24,320
Speaker 2: just this warmth and I thought he was like the

2705
02:37:24,440 --> 02:37:27,440
Speaker 2: greatest that. I thought that was one of the greatest

2706
02:37:27,480 --> 02:37:30,680
Speaker 2: live performances I had ever seen it. I've seen Ray

2707
02:37:30,800 --> 02:37:34,120
Speaker 2: Charles and I've seen James Brown with the Flames, and

2708
02:37:34,680 --> 02:37:38,560
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of great shows, and that was

2709
02:37:38,760 --> 02:37:43,280
Speaker 2: like probably the most powerful performance I think I ever

2710
02:37:43,400 --> 02:37:44,200
Speaker 2: saw an artist do.

2711
02:37:45,440 --> 02:37:48,840
Speaker 1: I was just one more night when we have a

2712
02:37:48,879 --> 02:37:52,240
Speaker 1: boss Bill, I'm baby Bill Sugar Steve. It's like yea

2713
02:37:52,959 --> 02:37:59,760
Speaker 1: and fantigolo. Thank you, Steve Miller. Appreciate it is another

2714
02:38:00,680 --> 02:38:04,560
Speaker 1: extravaganza episode of Quest Love Supreme Love You.

2715
02:38:04,640 --> 02:38:07,400
Speaker 2: It's a it's a great honor to be here. And

2716
02:38:07,680 --> 02:38:12,080
Speaker 2: I really appreciate who you are and what you do

2717
02:38:12,520 --> 02:38:18,280
Speaker 2: and and uh your intellectual curiosity and I want to

2718
02:38:18,360 --> 02:38:20,040
Speaker 2: play some music with you. I think we should go

2719
02:38:20,080 --> 02:38:23,160
Speaker 2: to the studio and we should like start with something

2720
02:38:23,240 --> 02:38:24,600
Speaker 2: and just take it somewhere.

2721
02:38:24,720 --> 02:38:28,280
Speaker 1: You just don't let them, don't let them use space

2722
02:38:28,320 --> 02:38:30,160
Speaker 1: and troll. Don't let him use space.

2723
02:38:30,160 --> 02:38:35,640
Speaker 2: From bringing my echoplex and mike from your mouth to Steve,

2724
02:38:36,600 --> 02:38:39,760
Speaker 2: because if we've grown up together, we would be doing

2725
02:38:39,840 --> 02:38:42,320
Speaker 2: this together. I know we would have. Yeah, thank you

2726
02:38:42,520 --> 02:38:46,040
Speaker 2: you have that's awesome, all right, So Steve, we got

2727
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:46,920
Speaker 2: our Yeah.

2728
02:38:47,320 --> 02:38:51,720
Speaker 10: Next album sounds good, Timothy and is that you and.

2729
02:38:51,760 --> 02:38:53,880
Speaker 1: The state of course that's you. Of course even the

2730
02:38:53,959 --> 02:38:57,000
Speaker 1: Smithsonian comes to visit. All right, Thank you very much, Steve, Bill,

2731
02:38:57,040 --> 02:39:01,560
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. The next go around, this was Quest.

2732
02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:04,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, Kay, Peace, Love and Happiness.

2733
02:39:13,200 --> 02:39:16,960
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

2734
02:39:17,000 --> 02:39:23,680
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Mandora. For more

2735
02:39:23,720 --> 02:39:27,720
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

2736
02:39:28,160 --> 02:39:29,840
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.