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Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan

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Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth.

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Speaker 2: Blazarre from Lazarren Hello, everybody nailed it. Joins has always

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Speaker 2: by our Gaplin kid gait no risk. Here is Evan

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Speaker 2: Lazar and Alex.

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Speaker 1: Bars Morgan moses though, and there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk about his age when they signed him. He plays

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Speaker 1: and he'll tough through it and he'll play hurt. He

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Speaker 1: didn't miss after his rookie year. He didn't miss a

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Speaker 1: game until twenty twenty three, and then he's missed three

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Speaker 1: games each the last two years. It's pretty solid for

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Speaker 1: a tackle to play twenty eight games too over the

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Speaker 1: span of two years. He hopes this isn't one of

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Speaker 1: the games. You don't want him to miss any games,

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Speaker 1: but this especially, you hope is in a game that

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Speaker 1: he misses. But right, he's not somebody I worry about

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Speaker 1: being like, I don't want to risk it this week. No.

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Speaker 1: I think if he can go, he'll go. If he

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Speaker 1: can get out there on Sunday. He seems like the

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Speaker 1: kind of guy that will get out there on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I was pretty surprised that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: even on the injury on Yeah, he played pretty well

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Speaker 2: against t J. Watt. Well, get to all of that.

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Speaker 2: But it's Evan Lazard, It's Alex Barth, It's Alex behind

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Speaker 2: the glass. Patriots Catch twenty two with you for the

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Speaker 2: next couple of hours here breaking down the loss of

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Speaker 2: the Steelers, breaking down the game against the Carolina Panthers

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Speaker 2: on Sunday. So a lot to talk about in patriot

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Speaker 2: Land here for the next couple of hours, next couple

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Speaker 2: of days, in the lead up to this game on Sunday,

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Speaker 2: Week four. Already we're moving. We're moving a little bit now.

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Speaker 2: So here we go, and I want to start with

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Speaker 2: an opening take, and then I want to I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this segment at the beginning of the season

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Speaker 2: and it totally escaped me. So we're going to do

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Speaker 2: the good, the bad, and the crap that gets you beat.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we're allowed to swear or something. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say crap or stuff stuff.

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Speaker 1: Just say stuff. It sounds closer.

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Speaker 2: So the stuff that gets you beat, and those are

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Speaker 2: the three buckets that Mike Rabel breaks down games into

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Speaker 2: the team. So we're going to do our version of

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Speaker 2: that here on the show probably doesn't really work if

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Speaker 2: they win. So maybe this is something that we go.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no, we could have absolutely done last week

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Speaker 1: with Miami, but I think they totally could. Stuff with Miami.

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Speaker 2: Would have gotten you beat. Didn't get you beat.

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Speaker 1: It almost did because they won't. But here's this thing.

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Speaker 1: Didn't lose, right, But here's this thing is it's it's

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Speaker 1: buckets and it's it's limiting. You can do things that

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Speaker 1: will get you beat and still like as long as

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Speaker 1: it's outweighed by the other stuff you could.

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Speaker 2: Do the bad. I don't think you can consistently do

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Speaker 2: the things that get you not consistently.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get we'll get to No, I think I

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Speaker 1: think Miami game is the perfect examples.

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Speaker 2: Get to bet, we'll get to it. I think the

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Speaker 2: the opening take that I wanted to give, and then

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Speaker 2: we're going to get to that exercise here in a second.

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Speaker 2: I understand completely, Alex that people are done with the

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Speaker 2: moral victories. They don't want any more of moral victories.

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Speaker 2: They want to see results. And I totally feel that

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Speaker 2: we have watched really three years of bad football in

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Speaker 2: this region, going back to twenty twenty two, and there

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Speaker 2: were times in twenty twenty two where it was okay,

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Speaker 2: But let's face it, it's really been three full seasons

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Speaker 2: of bad football, and it's just the moral victories are

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Speaker 2: getting hollow, like they're getting old, Like we want to

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Speaker 2: see real progression, and I get that. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, and you know, as we start to segue

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Speaker 2: here into the good, because I want to start on

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Speaker 2: a positive note, we start to segue into the good here.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, there is a lot of good

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Speaker 2: of what they did in this game on Sunday that

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Speaker 2: gets completely wiped out by the five turnovers. If they

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Speaker 2: don't turn the ball over five times in this game,

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Speaker 2: I truly feel like they probably win this game going away,

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Speaker 2: Like I think they might have won this game by

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Speaker 2: double digits if they don't turn it over five times.

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Speaker 2: That that being said, like I understand people don't like

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Speaker 2: the moral victories, but I would not come here and

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Speaker 2: tell you guys that the film, and I'm specifically talking

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Speaker 2: about the offense. I wouldn't tell you that the offense

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Speaker 2: is encouraging if it wasn't encouraging, Like after Week one,

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Speaker 2: I was not telling you that the offense was encouraging.

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Speaker 2: These last two weeks offensively has been a lot better,

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Speaker 2: like some really good football and good scheme and good

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Speaker 2: execution on the field offensively. That has me overall, big

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Speaker 2: picture encouraged about the team. And I know that they

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Speaker 2: need to win some games, and I know it's getting old,

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Speaker 2: but if they play offense like this moving forward, and

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Speaker 2: of course without the turnovers, they play offense like this

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Speaker 2: moving forward, they are going to start scoring some points.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna start scoring and of course if you score,

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Speaker 2: then you win and all that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So let me let me recharacterize it. You don't you

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Speaker 1: want to say it's not a moral victory. Fine, it's both.

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Speaker 1: It's an encouraging game and a frustrating game at the

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Speaker 1: same time, which it can be hard to kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, how do you compartmentalize that because you're frustrated

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Speaker 1: that they lost first and foremost, But they did a

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Speaker 1: lot of good things in that game, and not just

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Speaker 1: good things. They did things that they haven't done. They

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Speaker 1: did things that we've been waiting to see them to do,

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Speaker 1: and that's encouraging. And then you just get even more

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Speaker 1: frustrated because they did all that and I still can't

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Speaker 1: enjoy it because they lost so.

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Speaker 2: It's like.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has a right to feel frustrated after that. I

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Speaker 1: think you can be both frustrated and encouraged. And I

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Speaker 1: know that kind of sounds a little weird, and it's

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Speaker 1: funny to talk about it this way because we have

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Speaker 1: this argument mainly off the air in different contexts all

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Speaker 1: the time. That's basically, how do you weigh what looks

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Speaker 1: good on tape versus the ultimate results. You draw up

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Speaker 1: a bunch of fun look and plays, but you'll lose

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Speaker 1: twenty eight nothing. You know, you would be inclined to

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Speaker 1: enjoy that, whereas I would say, no, that's not a

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Speaker 1: well done game because you lost. This might kind of

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Speaker 1: be the middle ground of that, where it's ultimately not

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Speaker 1: the result you want. It's ultimately not a successful game.

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Speaker 1: In my mind, I would not call that game a

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Speaker 1: success no, because they lost it. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This sounds way too simplistic for this show, But you're

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Speaker 1: not going to turn the ball over five times every game.

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Speaker 1: You're just not going to do that. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of the things they did around it were winning football.

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Speaker 1: So it's just and we're supposed to do the deeper

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Speaker 1: dive on the show now, way we will, but like,

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Speaker 1: so I when I sit down with David Andrews on Monday,

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Speaker 1: the first thing he says is, we could do this

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Speaker 1: show in thirty seconds. Don't turn the ball over five times.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the take. That's obviously the big take coming

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Speaker 1: away from the show. But they did so much around

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Speaker 1: it that you like, I'll give you a stat of

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Speaker 1: And so I decide to have some after the game

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Speaker 1: on Pro Football Reference, as I'm one to do, and

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Speaker 1: all right, how many limits can I put in this thing?

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Speaker 1: So teams that and I some of these are under

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Speaker 1: what the Patriots did, But I was trying to just

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Speaker 1: use kind of round numbers here. Outgain the opponent by

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Speaker 1: at least one hundred and fifty yards, out, snap the

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Speaker 1: opponent by at least twenty plays on offense, Convert at

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Speaker 1: least forty five percent of your third downs, at least

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Speaker 1: seventy five percent of your fourth downs. Punt one or

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Speaker 1: fewer times. Yeah, that's a pretty good you do all that,

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Speaker 1: You had a pretty good game, right right? Teams that

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Speaker 1: did that since the merger thirty seven and two and

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Speaker 1: now thirty seven and three with the Patriots, and just

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Speaker 1: the odd thing I'll throw in there because it's weird.

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Speaker 1: The last such game of that was in twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: was Cowboys Ravens. The Cowboys lost. The last such game

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Speaker 1: that that was a loss. The Cowboys somehow only turned

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Speaker 1: the ball over once in that game and lost despite

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Speaker 1: all that. But the point being, like, you play that

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Speaker 1: game most of the time, you're gonna win. And obviously

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Speaker 1: there are things they can do to limit the turnovers,

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Speaker 1: but you're just if they're turning the ball over five times,

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Speaker 1: there's such bit the indicators would be there, like they're

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Speaker 1: not that team, right, We just don't believe they're not

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Speaker 1: gonna be a team that's like has the fewer turnovers

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Speaker 1: in the league. They're probably gonna have more than the

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Speaker 1: average team, but man, you're just not gonna turn the

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Speaker 1: ball over five times a game. And the things they

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Speaker 1: did around that on both sides of the ball, we're

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Speaker 1: very encouraging.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So that's a good way to kind of segue here,

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Speaker 2: because we're gonna get to the turnovers and the crap

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Speaker 2: that gets you beat, right, We're gonna get there. Don't

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Speaker 2: worry people, we're gonna talk about it. But with the good.

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Speaker 2: I want to start with the good I think the

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Speaker 2: most encouraging thing from a good standpoint, and I guess

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Speaker 2: these things got kind of go hand in hand, but

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Speaker 2: the overall offensive scheme from Josh McDaniels, yeah, and game

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Speaker 2: planning over the last two weeks, coupled with how good

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Speaker 2: I think Drake may looks on the whole through the

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Speaker 2: last two games, call it. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if it was as good on either front. In the

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Speaker 2: Raiders game, it wasn't, But over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 2: I've just been extremely encouraged by what Josh McDaniels has

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Speaker 2: started to put together scheme wise. The things that really

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Speaker 2: stand out to me. Number one, the under centered mechanics

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Speaker 2: and their ability to move the pocket has really paid

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Speaker 2: dividends for them and has really settled Drake down into

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Speaker 2: some of these games. I would say, you know, last

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Speaker 2: week against the Steelers, that fifteen yard boot run that

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Speaker 2: he had in the second quarter that kind of got

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Speaker 2: them going and that got him started. In this game,

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Speaker 2: they're right around ten percent of the time that they

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Speaker 2: moved the pocket design rollouts at this point. That's tenth

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Speaker 2: highest in the league, but it's right up there with

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Speaker 2: the Niners. The Vikings, the Rams. The Packers like teams

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Speaker 2: that move the pocket on a regular basis, So they're

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Speaker 2: moving the pocket on these bootleg plays about as often

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Speaker 2: as all these West Coast Shanahan style teams are doing

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Speaker 2: at this point. That's catering to your quarterbacks. That's about Drake.

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Speaker 2: That's about getting his mobility him out into space and

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Speaker 2: cutting the field in half and using his legs as

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Speaker 2: an advantage against the defense. That that's catering to your quarterback.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that you know me, I'm big on this.

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Speaker 2: Their motion rate has increased exponentially over the last couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks. They were the lowest motion team in the

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Speaker 2: league in Week one at around seventeen percent. The last

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Speaker 2: two weeks are up at sixty three percent in the

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Speaker 2: motion rate, so they've really flipped that. They've gotten much

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Speaker 2: more motion heavy. They haven't been as stagnant offensively pre snapped.

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Speaker 2: They're motioning at the snap a little bit more. They're

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Speaker 2: shifting more before the ball is snapped as well, so

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Speaker 2: they're doing a lot more window dressing, and they're dressing

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Speaker 2: up plays more and they're scheming receiver open a lot more.

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Speaker 2: As a result. This film against Pittsburgh, and I would

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Speaker 2: say the same thing about the film against the Dolphins.

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Speaker 2: There's open receivers all over the place on this film. Like,

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Speaker 2: they really did a nice job in this game of

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Speaker 2: getting guys open and scheming guys open, and McDaniels has

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Speaker 2: done an awesome job of just using the weapons that

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Speaker 2: they do have, because, let's face it, their receiver corp,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's still not there yet. They still don't

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Speaker 2: really have a number one guy. They still don't really

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Speaker 2: have a field stretcher that's vertically making the defense respect

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Speaker 2: them vertically. And Josh McDaniels, with running backs, tight ends

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Speaker 2: and like a little bit of receiver production, is basically

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Speaker 2: milking every last ounce of leverage against the defense that

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Speaker 2: he can possibly find. Like they are really running this

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Speaker 2: offense through the backs and the tight ends. And the

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Speaker 2: one formation that I think really consistently points to that

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Speaker 2: is that split back formation where they have one of

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Speaker 2: the tight ends and a running back next to Drake

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Speaker 2: and the shotgun. They ran that formation about a dozen

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Speaker 2: times on Sunday, and they got some really big plays

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Speaker 2: out of it, you know, eighteen yard wheel route to

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Speaker 2: Hunter Henry Hunter Henry's second touchdown on the fourth and

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Speaker 2: two play came out of twelve personnel out of shotgun

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Speaker 2: with the Austin Hooper with him in the backfield. There

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Speaker 2: was another fifteen yard completion out of that, and just

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Speaker 2: all the different possibilities that you can scheme up out

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Speaker 2: of that one formation with Drake and the gun and

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Speaker 2: the two guys next to him, one tight end, one

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Speaker 2: running back, and then of course two tight ends on

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Speaker 2: the field.

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Speaker 1: Total.

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Speaker 2: You know, how are team's going to match that. Are

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Speaker 2: they going to match it in base and then you

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Speaker 2: have safeties and linebackers covering tight ends and receivers and

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Speaker 2: you can win those matchups. Or are they going to

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Speaker 2: cover it in nickel and maybe you can run the

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Speaker 2: ball against their lighter nickel packages. That's the chess match

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Speaker 2: that they're having right now with the posing defenses. That

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Speaker 2: all starts with formation and personnel. So that's really all

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Speaker 2: McDaniels like that. That's a schematic thing from Josh McDaniel's

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Speaker 2: and I just look at what they're doing now and

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Speaker 2: the only I love it, The only hesitation that I

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Speaker 2: have about it is weeks you know eight through seventeen,

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Speaker 2: our team's going to start to figure them out because

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Speaker 2: they don't. Do they have I guess a better way

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Speaker 2: to put it. Do they have an off speed pitch? Like,

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Speaker 2: do they have a change up? Do they have a

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Speaker 2: secondary pitch that once a teams start to see what

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Speaker 2: they're doing out of twelve personnel and the base plays

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Speaker 2: that they're running out of twelve personnel? Do they now

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Speaker 2: have complimentary plays built off of those plays to kind

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Speaker 2: of protect the base stuff because the base stuff is

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Speaker 2: really good. But these decordinators are really smart and they're

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Speaker 2: going to figure it out eventually.

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Speaker 1: And that's something Josh has always been great at is

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Speaker 1: his offense does not look the same in September as

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Speaker 1: it doesn't in December. Never has, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say never will We'll see, But like, isn't

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Speaker 1: that where you start to get into you're running some

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Speaker 1: of the same stuff, but you're running it with different

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Speaker 1: players so it looks differently. Right, So let's say you're

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Speaker 1: running out of twelve and you have Keisehan Boody and

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Speaker 1: Mac Collins. Is your two receivers? Right, you run the

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Speaker 1: same play, but it's Stephan Diggs and Kyle Williams is

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Speaker 1: the two Like you inherently have to defend that differently.

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Speaker 1: So maybe that's the change up because there are still

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Speaker 1: some guys still haven't seen a ton from Kyle Williams.

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Speaker 1: I still think there's more they can do with Stefan.

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Speaker 1: He's been out there a lot, but I still think

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Speaker 1: there's some untapped there and they're probably trying to let

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Speaker 1: him get his legs back under him after the injury

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Speaker 1: last year. Travon Henderson will get Travan Henderson. Travon Henderson

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Speaker 1: has been involved a lot, but I think he can

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Speaker 1: be involved very differently, So there's that element of it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's the change up, is just the personnel groupings

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Speaker 1: as much as it is the schematic stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they've already they already kind of did some

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Speaker 2: different things like the wheel route to Hunter Henry is

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Speaker 2: Henry in the backfield, rurning the wheel, the touchdown to

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Speaker 2: Hunter Henry on fourth down later on the game, it

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Speaker 2: was Hooper that was in the backfield and it was

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Speaker 2: Henry that was the in line tight end. So they've

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Speaker 2: already started to do some different things in terms of

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Speaker 2: just where guys are in those formations. But when you again,

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Speaker 2: like getting back to catering this thing to Drake May.

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Speaker 2: That is the under center in the boots and the

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Speaker 2: moving pockets, the shotgun you know, split back stuff, the motion,

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Speaker 2: the window dressing. Like this was not stuff that Josh

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Speaker 2: McDaniels was doing a ton in his past stops, like

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Speaker 2: whether it was here with Brady and mac Jones or

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Speaker 2: in Vegas with the Raiders. So like when I hear things,

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Speaker 2: you know, not to get like soapboxy here for a second,

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Speaker 2: but like when I hear things like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: the Josh McDaniels offense, Like this isn't the Josh McDaniels offense,

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Speaker 2: Like this does not look to me the last two

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Speaker 2: weeks like the Josh McDaniels offense. And this isn't to

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Speaker 2: like bring up some like divide in there where like

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Speaker 2: you know there's West Coast guys, and that's not where

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Speaker 2: I'm going. I'm not going to your station, No, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to McDaniels has adapted and changed these scheme and

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Speaker 2: his system to fit Drake May.

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Speaker 1: This is what we talked about when they hired it,

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Speaker 1: when everybody was freaking out about, oh, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be too much, and they asked Brady do all it.

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Speaker 1: What did we say, Yeah, he's it's a limited sample size,

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Speaker 1: but he's generally done a good job of taking what

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Speaker 1: he because his core concepts are still there. Like the

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Speaker 1: core concept is dropping.

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Speaker 2: The drop back game is similar, right, the run game

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Speaker 2: and the i'd say the run game and and some

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Speaker 2: of the drop back game is pretty different, but like

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Speaker 2: you still see you know, their traditional drop back game

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Speaker 2: where they're running host Duke and.

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Speaker 1: I would also just say, and the way he's he's

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Speaker 1: using the run in the past and the play action

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Speaker 1: to play off each other and all of that, some

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Speaker 1: of the more meta stuff is the same. Because this

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Speaker 1: is what he did it for Cam Newton. He did

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Speaker 1: it for Mac Jones, like this was my take of time.

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Speaker 1: He tailored the offense to Mac Jones to a fault

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Speaker 1: to a fault to him because he got this kind

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Speaker 1: of screen merchant label. And then they what happened the

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Speaker 1: next year with Mac Jones throwing the ball down the field,

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Speaker 1: Like that's me what they needed to do. So this

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Speaker 1: is this is what Josh McDaniels does.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry, I just under center speed option

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Speaker 2: on fourth and one, like I haven't seen Josh McDaniels

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Speaker 2: run that with Mac Jones or Tom Brady like that

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Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to run it. Well, I know,

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Speaker 2: but I'm just saying like it's this is this is

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Speaker 2: your quarters, right he ran with Cam. I think I

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Speaker 2: don't know about number fourth and one, but I don't

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Speaker 2: about understand they ran.

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Speaker 1: I remember they ran one or two old school options

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Speaker 1: that year. Maybe I don't think it might not have

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Speaker 1: been fourth and one, but they ran it.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember them. But maybe the point being is

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Speaker 2: just like this is catering to your quarterback. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: when Week one, when I had all that frustration is

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Speaker 2: because they weren't doing these types of things. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing them do these types of things. Some of the

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Speaker 2: different gun you know, split back stuff really has me excited,

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Speaker 2: like they they missed it. But like you know, they

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Speaker 2: have a spinner series now where Drake may kind of

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Speaker 2: spins around on the play action fake from the gun,

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Speaker 2: which is really popular nowadays. You know the Bills, the Ravens,

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Speaker 2: like teams like that that have a lot of the Eagles,

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Speaker 2: a lot of gun in their offense, like a lot

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Speaker 2: of shotgun. Are you doing what's called a spinner fake

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Speaker 2: where like the quarterback literally spins and turns his back

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Speaker 2: to the defense and the gun and spins all you know,

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Speaker 2: does a one to eighty and comes back around. And

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Speaker 2: they had you know, Pop Douglas wide open in the

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Speaker 2: flat on one of those spinner plays, and like when

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Speaker 2: you just look at the play concept itself, it's just

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Speaker 2: it's great design. Like they have the running back on

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Speaker 2: the wheel, and they have popa you know, on the

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Speaker 2: swing in the flat. Then they have Matt Collins running

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Speaker 2: like a deep incut in the middle of the field,

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Speaker 2: and you just look at all the different openings of

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Speaker 2: where this could present open receivers. They covered the wheel

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Speaker 2: pretty well, but Matt Collins is open in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the field and Pop was wide open in the flat,

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Speaker 2: and they just kind of couldn't connect, which we'll get

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Speaker 2: to here as well. But all these different schematic things,

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Speaker 2: it's like you said, you know, a few minutes ago

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Speaker 2: about me, like this is the stuff that gets me

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Speaker 2: hot and bothered. Right now, they only scored fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Points, so now let's so now it's going to translate

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Speaker 1: to winning the next time.

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Speaker 2: But this is the kind of stuff that gets me

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Speaker 2: hot and bothered because when you when you get process

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Speaker 2: oriented and you're not just thinking closed mindedly about the

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Speaker 2: results and your process oriented. Like if you keep doing

385
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Speaker 2: these types of things, then this is going to lead

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Speaker 2: to good offense and this is going to lead to

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Speaker 2: more points. They just need to get Petter to Hatter

388
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Speaker 2: to like they need to execute better, Like they need

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Speaker 2: to get better at what they're doing. The other good

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Speaker 2: thing that I came out of this game that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk about. And I know that this is

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Speaker 2: a little like how is the play missus Lincoln, I

393
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Speaker 2: get it, but like Drake May sands the turnovers like

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Speaker 2: Drake May right now, and I get that there's also

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Speaker 2: a small sample slize slash strength to schedule element to

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Speaker 2: this as well. But from an efficiency standpoint, he's like

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Speaker 2: a top ten quarterback in the league right now, which

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Speaker 2: I don't care if they're playing you know, the Raiders,

399
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Speaker 2: Dolphins and Stea Deelers, they were not being this good,

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Speaker 2: you know, top ten efficiency in the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Like they're that's still a huge improvement from where.

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Speaker 1: They were, just qualifier on all of it, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not be you know, having good games against these

404
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Speaker 1: lesser teams is not the end goal. But they weren't

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Speaker 1: even doing this. So it's a step forward, and it's

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Speaker 1: not all gonna happen at once. You got to take

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Speaker 1: these step forwards. Also, just relatively speaking, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of bad teams in the NFL. So maybe not everybody's

409
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Speaker 1: played the Ravens, Steelers and Dolphins, but who's played like

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Speaker 1: the I don't know any of the like the NFC

411
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Speaker 1: South's playing each other. That division sucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's sort of my It was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it goes back to Rabeles thing like can you take

414
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Speaker 2: advantage of bad football? And that baseline of being able

415
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Speaker 2: to take advantage of bad football that probably beats like

416
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Speaker 2: ten out of the thirty two teams in the league

417
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Speaker 2: every week just by not being as bad as the

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Speaker 2: other team. And the last two years offensively, they weren't

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Speaker 2: even good enough to take advantage of bad football. Now

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Speaker 2: I'm starting to see Drake May be good enough to

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Speaker 2: do that and good enough to elevate things. You know,

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Speaker 2: we can go individual throw, you can go big picture

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Speaker 2: in terms of his efficiency and all the metrics. Just

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Speaker 2: love Drake May. Right now, he's eighth in EPA per play,

425
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Speaker 2: He's third in EPA per play in obvious passing situations.

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Speaker 2: It's Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Drake may like that. That's

427
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Speaker 2: what we're talking about here, and obvious you know, expected

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Speaker 2: pass situations. He's first in the league in late down EPA,

429
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Speaker 2: third and fourth down, So he is the best third

430
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Speaker 2: and fourth down quarterback in the NFL through three weeks.

431
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Speaker 2: Like that doesn't just happen by accident. That's not strength

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00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: to schedule, that's not opponent based. Like that is the

433
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 2: quarterback making plays.

434
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: He's played, can so can I can we do this game?

435
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: He's played five really good halves of football and six

436
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: halves Yeah of the season, Okay, I'll give you that.

437
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: Like he's been it's because my whole thing with him,

438
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, is consistency. Yeah, outside of that second half

439
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: of the Raiders, I think it's been because I don't

440
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: think those numbers are inflated by one specific game or

441
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: one specific drive, Like I think for the most part,

442
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: he's just kind of been this guy's just that second

443
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: half against the Raiders. Yeah, besides that, he's been pretty consistent,

444
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: which is encouraging.

445
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the throws that stood out to me,

446
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure similar to everybody else. You know, the deep

447
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: dig to Booty on third down was a really good throw.

448
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: Got to get they got to work that in more.

449
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: That was role in the first half of the Raiders game.

450
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: We haven't really seen it since.

451
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, really good I manipulation there to look off the

452
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: zone and then come back to the middle of the

453
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: field there. And that's not that's not a peace shooter

454
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: throw either, Like you have to be able to you

455
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: have to have some ability to drive the football, like

456
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: that's a fifteen to twenty yard zone window that you're

457
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: driving the ball into. The wheel route to Hunter Henry

458
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: is just a perfect like that's a touch throw, you know,

459
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: or he just kind of throws it with a great

460
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: touch and just enough air or you know, air under

461
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: it to get it there before the same safety, but

462
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 2: just enough touch to kind of get it over the

463
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: linebacker there.

464
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: Just a really perfect The one player to Henry was that,

465
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: I think to set up at the end of the half.

466
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: Yet one up the scene to Henry, not the touchdown.

467
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Will, That's what I'm talking about. And then he

468
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: also had five runs for first downs in this game,

469
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, So you're just seeing all of it, like

470
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: you're seeing the scrambling ability. You're seeing the arm talent

471
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: and the ability from the pocket. I know that you

472
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: can't just wipe away all the turnovers, and we're going

473
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 2: to get to the turnovers, but overall, I just think

474
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: we need to look at this as like a developmental

475
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: thing with Drake May and it's not going to be

476
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: linear where every play is going to be perfect. And

477
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: if you look at it from the totality of the

478
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: three games that he has played, you know, there's really

479
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: no metric that you can look at that doesn't call

480
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: him like a top fifteen top tennis quarterback in the

481
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: NFL through three weeks. So that's extremely encouraging. The last

482
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: thing here on the good side, and then we'll get

483
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: to some of the not so good. I thought they

484
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: ingested really well defensively in this game. Didn't think they

485
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: started too hot, which we'll get to, but they after

486
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: the first two drives, especially after that opening drive, they

487
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: adjusted pretty quickly to the run game for the Steelers,

488
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: and they really shut down the run game from that

489
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: point on in that game, and I think the in

490
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: game adjustments defensively it's taken maybe a little bit longer

491
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: in other games. This one was pretty quick, like this

492
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: right around that after that second drive by the Steelers,

493
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: second touchdown drive, they kind of clamped down from there.

494
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: But I also just really liked and I you know,

495
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: this will kind of come back up later, like the

496
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: accountability on defense and it's no shot at these two guys,

497
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: but benching Christian Ellis and Alex Austin and just saying

498
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: this is not good enough and putting other guys out

499
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 2: there and giving you know, Gibbons and Charles Woods an opportunity.

500
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: I just like that, like at some point they have

501
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: to start taking the guys that are playing bad football

502
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: off the field, Like you can't just keep bond doing

503
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 2: the same thing, which I think the last couple of

504
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: Stabs might not have had the the depth on the

505
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: roster to like have something different to go to. But

506
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: I also didn't really feel like they were really very

507
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: accountable in that regard. So in game adjustments for the

508
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: defense I thought were good. And then you, I mean,

509
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: you hold the I keep saying the Packers because of Rodgers,

510
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: you hold the Steelers to it. I think it was

511
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: one first down on five possessions in the middle quarters,

512
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: Like that's.

513
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: Pretty high yards allowed in the third quarter.

514
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: I think it was like one, wasn't it one? Yeah?

515
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's just good football.

516
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

517
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know the Steelers aren't who they were

518
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: and Rodgers and who they were, but it's a lot

519
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: of bad teams to get more than one yard in

520
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: the third quarter.

521
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that was the goods for me. If there's

522
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: anything off the top of your head you wanted, Dad,

523
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: then we can add to the goods if you want.

524
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: But I feel like those were the no you hit

525
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: on a lot of it.

526
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: Just adjusting defensively and.

527
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's go to the bads.

528
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: Is this up and downs? Were we going to do

529
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: that separately?

530
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 2: But doing that separately? Okay, this is big picture. I'm

531
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: not other than Drake. I'm trying not to be two

532
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: players specific Well, yes, because Drake is a big picture

533
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the bads. So let's

534
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: start here defensively. I did not like this game plan

535
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: for them defensively, and they got down fourteen to nothing

536
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: kind of as a result of the game plan. They

537
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: came out into high safety. And not only did they

538
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: come out into high safety, they came out in three

539
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: Quarner Nickel, So they came out in basically past personnel. Defensively,

540
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: they had the two high safeties up top, which you

541
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: do to keep a lid on the defense right to

542
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: avoid any big plays over your head. And then obviously

543
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: with the three corners out there and five defensive backs total,

544
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: you're lighter in the box there with the nickel defender,

545
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: you know, basically playing in the box. And the Steelers

546
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: in Jalen Warren just ran right down their throats, especially

547
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: on the opening drive. You know, six out of the

548
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: eight plays were run plays. They ran it right down

549
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: to the Patriots throats. Now, the Patriots adjusted, that was

550
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: on the good, right. I talked about that, but I

551
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: didn't really love how they came out in this game.

552
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: And when you come out with a bad plan on defense,

553
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: you go down fourteen to nothing, and that's just not

554
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: a way to live in the NFL. You can't be

555
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: putting yourself in fourteen nothing holes on a consistent basis

556
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: and expect to win a lot of those games. So

557
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: this is now i'd say two and a half weeks

558
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: of me not loving their plan on defense. The opener

559
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: against the Raiders, they come out and they just blitzed,

560
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: you know, Smith all over the place, which I thought

561
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: was kind of silly, like they were kind of diabolical,

562
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: and how much they blitzed in that game and it

563
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: and it burned them a couple of times, you know,

564
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: in big, big plays. And this week, you know, this

565
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: isn't prime Aaron Rodgers where you know he's throwing deep

566
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: and he's slinging in, he's airing it out all over

567
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: the place, like that's not what he does anymore. This

568
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: is a check down merchant Aaron Rodgers with the run

569
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: game like that, that's really what the Steelers offense is.

570
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: And it's surprised to me that they can out in

571
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: those two high safeties and got run on a little

572
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: bit in this game. Now they cleaned it up and

573
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: they got they got the run stopped.

574
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: But overall, like.

575
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: I said, the game plans defensively, I think need to

576
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: be a little bit better to start these games, because

577
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: there is no reason for them to give up that

578
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: kind of uh you know, rushing production in the first quarter,

579
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: like it was just too much.

580
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: Despite that, then they allowed twenty one points and just

581
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: over two hundred yards. Like I'm with you on like

582
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: they need to be better defensively to start but I

583
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: just have trouble nitpicking the defense in this game they play,

584
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: even with the first two drives, that was a winning

585
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: effort defensively. That was one of the better games they

586
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: played defensively. Yeah, if you're saying about the game plan,

587
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: I get we're saying about theme.

588
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: They go down fourteen to nothing, like regardless of it.

589
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: Like this is now two out of the three weeks too.

590
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: I believe that they've given up an opening drive touchdown

591
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: because they did the same thing against the Raiders, or

592
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: the Raiders went right down the field and scored to

593
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: start the game. Like if you want, I'm not saying

594
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: it's it's the bad. It's not the stuff to get

595
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: to beat. But you can't be in holes all the time,

596
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: like you can't be playing from behind all.

597
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: They need to start games better. I just I don't know.

598
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: They've had some rough defensive look at what happened last

599
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: weekends too. I just thought this. I know we're doing

600
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: the good the bad and what gets you beat and

601
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: all that. I think it's still some mistackles we're gonna get.

602
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: We can get into the mistackles. There's some context there.

603
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: The biggest thing for me, I would say with the

604
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: defense is Look, some of those penalties were pretty ticky tack.

605
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: I have kind of a reference. I guess I'll squeeze

606
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: it in now. Some of those penalties were pretty ticky tack.

607
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Carl Cheffer's crew through more flags than any last season. Yeah,

608
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: like not Carl Cheffer's Cleat Blakeman. Sorry, I've done that

609
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: like two or three times this week. Cleete Blakeman's crew

610
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: through more flags than any last year. And you know

611
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: that going in, and the coaches talk about that going in.

612
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: We abilities do that all the time as a crew.

613
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: We can get away with a little more, as a

614
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: crew can get away with little less. They break it

615
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: down by penalty, right, So yeah, some of those were

616
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: ticky tack. I think PI late on Carlton and Carlton

617
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: Davis was ridiculous, But you kind of got to know

618
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: going in, hey, I probably can't get away with as

619
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: much as usual. And there were some bad calls the

620
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: other way too, Like I didn't think that PI call

621
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: in Keshan Boodie was a good call, right, they just

622
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: did the whole un catchable part of PI was ripped

623
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: out of the rollbook this week. But like, I don't

624
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: know I like an aggressive defense. I think there were

625
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: times where it was maybe like kind of know the

626
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: situation and hey, this is who the crew is and

627
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: this is how they've been calling it to this point,

628
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: and they weren't good calls. But I think sometimes you

629
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: got to play that way.

630
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I thought both calls on Alex Austin were legit.

631
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: Now the Carlon Davis DPI, I'm with you, was not

632
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: DPI in my mind, but I thought.

633
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: Both calls it was a hold if anything.

634
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just again, it's it's the bad it's not

635
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: getting them beat that the defense isn't starting great in

636
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: some of these games. And if you want to do

637
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: the whole Belichick thing where you kind of let the

638
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: game declare and you figure out what they're doing and

639
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: then you settle down defensively, that's all well and good

640
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: if you have Tom Brady on the other side to

641
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: keep up until the defense settles down, right. If you're

642
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: a team like this Patriots team, I think starting fast

643
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: is important for this group because they are not going

644
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: to necessarily be able to dig themselves out of fourteen

645
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: point deficits, especially against teams that are better than the Steelers,

646
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: that are going to keep scoring, you know, once they've

647
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: put up fourteen points, Like they're not going to hold

648
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: you know, the Buffalo Bills to two shutout quarters like

649
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 2: the Patriots did against the Steelers on Sunday. You might

650
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: hold the Carolina Panthers to two shutout quarters. But you

651
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: get my point. So I just I think defensively the

652
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: game plans. I didn't mind the game plan as much

653
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: against Tua. I know the production against Tua was high

654
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: in those first three quarters for Tua, but they played

655
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: two high deep safeties and they made him hit whole

656
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: shots and things like that. On the side, like that's

657
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: what you're gonna do against Tua. Like, could they have

658
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: done it a little bit better, Yeah, they definitely could

659
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: have done it a little bit better, but that's sort

660
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: of that's the book, Like that's that's what everybody does

661
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: against Tua. So you just didn't necessarily execute it at

662
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: a high level. I didn't really get blitzing Geno Smith,

663
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: and I don't really get why they were so worried

664
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: about Aaron Rodgers throwing deep on them in this game

665
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: to start this game. The other thing that you mentioned

666
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: was the mistackles. So I want to unpack this a

667
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: little bit because I did some digging in the next

668
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: Gen stats world on some of these mistackles.

669
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: So I actually think I grew with the take you're

670
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: about to get.

671
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: So they had fourteen miss tackles last week, which is

672
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: too high. That's a very high number. Less than it was,

673
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: but it's high. Fourteen miss tackles. Their mistackle rate through

674
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: three games is the third highest in the NFL right now,

675
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: it's seventeen point eight percent. So they are missing tackles

676
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: at the third highest rate in the league. That is

677
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: too high. Now, Vrabel actually was the first one to

678
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: bring this up, and we'll get to some of this

679
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: stuff later, maybe because it excites me, and I know

680
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: it probably bothers you. He knows the stats and he

681
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: hasn't had the ready, which I love. So next Gen

682
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: tracks how many yards opponents get after miss tackles meets

683
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: yards after contact essentially, yeah, uh, after miss tackles. So

684
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: right now, the Patriots are giving up three point one

685
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: yards after a mistackle per mistackle. All right, that's the

686
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: lowest rate in the NFL. So on the one hand,

687
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: they're missing a lot of tackles. That's no bueno. Yep,

688
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, when they do misstackles, they're

689
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: swarming to the football and it's not really burning them,

690
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: like they're not giving up the you know, they miss

691
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: a tackle and then they're giving up a fifty yard

692
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: run because they missed the tackle, because they are getting

693
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: at football.

694
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: Here's what I'm wondering. Do you have the breakdown on

695
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: that number by week?

696
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: I do, I mean not off the top of I

697
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: didn't write it down, but I could get.

698
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: That's something we're in this game. I'm sorry if you

699
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: still more to your point, but I just didn't know.

700
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that's basically the pinkay.

701
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. If you can find the breakdown

702
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: by week, I could. I actually think that that's somewhere

703
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: where I thought they improved in this game. I thought

704
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: the last two games when they missed tackles it created

705
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: more yardage in this game, like the one play that

706
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: stands out to me. It was in the fourth quarter,

707
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: Steels are trying to run out the clock. Kiris Tonga

708
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: shoots in the backfield, blows up a run play and

709
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: he I think it's Joshua Farmer, who's with him? I

710
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: keep saying this on the air and then forgetting who

711
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: it is and going back and looking and then forgetting again.

712
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: I think it's Joshua Farmer who's in there with him,

713
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: or some other tackles in there with him. Maybe it

714
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: was Durden, And like Tonga can clearly see that he's

715
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: not the only one who got back there. And he

716
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: goes for a big hit, and he goes to the

717
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: ball and he tries to make an explosive play defensively,

718
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: he ultimately misses the tackle, but Durden and I think somebody,

719
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: I think the splaying or somebody else got in there

720
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: and cleaned it up. And Jalen Warren got no extra

721
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: yards off the miss tackle. I think even might have

722
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: lost the yard relatively speaking. That's a coaching point for

723
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: a lot of teams. Like, if you know the football right,

724
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: if you know you have help around you, try to

725
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: make a play. If you're the first guy in make

726
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: a play, teamates will clean it up. Don't do that

727
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: in the open field where there's nobody around you to help.

728
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: But if you're swarming and you know you're gonna be

729
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: the first guy and swarm, make a play, and if

730
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: they're missing tackles that way, that doesn't bother me like, yeah,

731
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: you'd rather the first guy bring them down, but if

732
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: there's no extra yardage and over the course of the

733
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: season it produces a couple of fumbles, I'm all for it.

734
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: It felt like, and they were still some of those

735
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: open field miss tackles in this game. Chrishnell has had

736
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: a bad one and those are the kind of plays

737
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: that I thought burned them the last couple of weeks

738
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: where there was a mistackle and they weren't swarming the

739
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: ball and guys were gonnain.

740
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: Those missed one right in the whole on outside zone

741
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 2: and in the run game to eleven yards.

742
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: So then this last game was the highest missed after

744
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: a mistackle total out of any of the mistackles.

745
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: That's obviously not what you want. Yeah, but if you're

746
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: missing tackles because you're just swarming to the ball, the

747
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: first guy is trying to make a play, which is

748
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: more what I thought they didn't more against the Steelers, Right. Yeah, again,

749
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to be missing the tackles at all,

750
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: but that's not really that detrimental.

751
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: One hundred and eight yards over the course of three

752
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: games is still you know, thirty five yards game or whatever.

753
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: That math is like, that's that's thirty five yards you'd

754
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: like to have back in an ideal world. But to

755
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 2: your point, if they're swarming to the ball, if they're

756
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 2: getting multiple hats there, and then I think the play

757
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: that I posted that unfortunately they didn't recover the fumble. Yeah,

758
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: but Kyle Dugger, they run, you know, the Steelers run

759
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: a boot and they slide John new Smith underneath the

760
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: formation and across the field, and Kyle Duggar wins the

761
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: foot race to the edge against John new Smith and

762
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: makes him cut back into the middle of the field,

763
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: and Harold Landry clocks him from the side and forces

764
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: a fumble. Like that's kind of what you're talking about.

765
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: Of Like, Dugger's job on that play is just to

766
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: make sure that John who doesn't get the edge, and

767
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: he kind of does his job, and then Landry comes

768
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: in and cleans up. And one of the big things

769
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 2: with Rabel and one of his non negotiables is effort

770
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: and finish. And I think this defense is playing with

771
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: excellent effort and finish. And I think that that's where

772
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: that number speaks to in terms of the yards after

773
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: miss tackles or yards after contact that they're limiting. That's

774
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: all effort and finish. That's eleven guys flying to the

775
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: football to make the you know, plays on the ball,

776
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: whether you make the first tackle or not. So the

777
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 2: mistackles itself is in the bad category, but I do

778
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: think that the context is important of how much is

779
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: it really burning them? And the one play that Verbele

780
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: mentioned because he brought this up last week, the point

781
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: that I'm making. The one play that Rabel mentioned was

782
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: the HM touchdown before halftime in Miami. That's a play

783
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: where you miss a tackle and you end up giving

784
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: up a thirty yard touchdown. Those are the ones you

785
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 2: can't have. But these other little mistackles here and there,

786
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: where you know, your Tonga example, the Dugger example, like,

787
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: those are ones that you can kind of live with

788
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: because you're not giving up anything. You're not giving up

789
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: any extra yards from it, right And to your point,

790
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 2: maybe you make a play on the ball and you

791
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: actually force a turnover by being aggressive there and trying

792
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: to blow the guy up. So all of it is

793
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: is kind of you know, I think the mistackled thing,

794
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would say it's being overblown,

795
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: but I do think that there's some positive thing coming

796
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: out of it.

797
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: There's certainly room to get better. I thought the tackling, though,

798
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: was better in this game than it was compared to

799
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the first two weeks, especially by Roberts splain, which we'll

800
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: get Robert all right.

801
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: The last bad I think we might disagree of where

802
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: this is categorized, but I put it in the bad

803
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: and not the stuff that gets you beat is the

804
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: five penalties for first downs. So they got called for

805
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: five penalties that led directly to first downs in this game.

806
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: The biggest one was the holding call in alex Austin

807
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 2: that wiped out a strip sack for Milton Williams backed

808
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: up on the Steelers' own goal line, so instead of

809
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 2: fourth and punt from like the Steelers one yard line,

810
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: it's a new set of downs, and the Steelers ended

811
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: up scoring a touchdown on that drive and going up

812
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: fourteen to nothing. Those penalties are are hurting them considerably

813
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: in these games. Calebon Chason two more penalties in this

814
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: game on defense, Marcus Jones a personal foul, which was

815
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: a legit call. You can't chop down blockers like that

816
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: in the open field anymore. So all of these penalties

817
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: that are, you know, kind of especially the ones I

818
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: would say that are taking off negative plays like the

819
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: Milon Williams sack. Those ones they can't have. That's it's

820
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: bad football and they need to cut it out. I

821
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: don't know if you agree with me not putting this

822
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: in the stuff that gets you beat category.

823
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: It's textbook stuff that gets you beat. You're giving away

824
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: free for it. And I look again, it was it

825
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: was called tiki tack. I don't think the refs are

826
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: the reason that the Patriots lost this game.

827
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was.

828
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: It was you know, there were definitely some ticky tack

829
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: annointant calls. I I would penalties and turnovers are things

830
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: they can you beat. I think that that's textbook.

831
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: Well, if they they could have had all five of

832
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: those turnovers or all five of those penalties, excuse me,

833
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 2: And if they didn't turn the ball over five times,

834
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: they still win the game by a touchdown. So to me,

835
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: it's just like, yeah, they were not good and they're

836
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: in the bad category, and you want to eliminate them,

837
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: just like the mistackles. But it's not necessarily. I don't

838
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: think that you're losing games because of those penalties.

839
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: If they even turn them all over three times and

840
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: still losing the same way. The penalties are the headline.

841
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: I still think the penalties are what get you beat, all.

842
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 2: Right, the stuff. I knew you were going to disagree

843
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: with me on that. That's cool.

844
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: Well, because the nerds don't believe in penalties.

845
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, not really, Uh, you don't believe it is strong?

846
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: Is strong, but not as not as detrimental to the

847
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: teams as the turnovers are.

848
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: So I will say this to the And I don't

849
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: know exactly the stat Vrabel was referencing, but I've seen

850
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: some people run with it, maybe beyond his context. So

851
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing him because I'm sure he's more informed,

852
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: but I think people just hear a line and parrot

853
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: it because he said the other day, like, the penalty

854
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: margin isn't as indicative of winning as some people think

855
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, okay, I'm curious where that line is drawn.

856
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: Are we including games where one team had one more

857
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: penalty in the.

858
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: Other, Well, usually I would say it's by penalty the yardage, or.

859
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: Like, okay, well weigh fifty five pounds the yard because it's.

860
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: It's really more. And this is going to drive you crazy,

861
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: But it's really more about like when the penalties are

862
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: and like in terms of win probabilities and stuff like that.

863
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: Like there's a big difference between the penalty I brought up,

864
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: which was the holding call on Alex Austin that wiped

865
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: out of Milton Williams stripsack and an off side by

866
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: calevon Chase on on first down, right like.

867
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: That, Well, I think to the point, that's fair, Like

868
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: not every penalty's created different. I think my bigger issue is, like,

869
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: however you want to saying that the penalty number isn't

870
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: fully on the line of who wins or loses doesn't

871
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: mean carte blanche, go commit all the penalties you want

872
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: because ultimately doesn't impact the game and we shouldn't care.

873
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: Those two are not the same thing, because if you're like,

874
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: this is where and again I don't think Vrabel's doing this,

875
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: but I think some people hear this line and run

876
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: with it. Oh, there's no correlation between committing penalties and

877
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: win loss, so we should totally ignore the penalties. But

878
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if you're a team that's getting penalized and

879
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: this isn't what the Patriots are, but like, if you're

880
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: a team that's getting penalized twelve times a game, it

881
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: is going to be hard to win. So that's not

882
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: to say you can't have penalties, because to your point,

883
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: I think it's more about the context of the penalties

884
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: and the way the game's being called more than anything else.

885
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: So I yeah, Like the thing is is that it's

886
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: what he's saying and what I am an agreement with

887
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: him on. Is that on the list of crap that

888
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: gets you beat. Yeah, it's not going to be as

889
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 2: high on the list as some of these other things

890
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: that we thought.

891
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: Depends I don't think the answer. I don't think that

892
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: that's a yes or no thing.

893
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: I So just to look at it, I'm gonna I'm

894
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 2: gonna nerd out for a second and annoy you, which

895
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 2: is exactly why I'm doing it. So the top ten

896
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: plays in this game in terms of win probability added

897
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: or subtracted, so basically the most impactful plays in the

898
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: end higher game. Drake May's stripsack, Rimandre's fumble on the

899
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: goal line, a touchdown to Hunter Henry, Aaron Rodgers' interception

900
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: touchdown at Calvin Austin at the end of the game.

901
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: Actually the fourth and one scramble by Drake May is

902
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: on here. Uh, the Antonio Gibson fumble, Vermandre's first fumble,

903
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: Drake May's interception in the end zone, and then the

904
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: ten yard play to Kenneth Gainwell that put the Steelers

905
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: into field goal range on their game winning drive. Nowhere

906
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: on that list is penalties. Okay, it's touchdowns, it's interceptions,

907
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 2: it's turnovers, it's it's key plays in the actual plays.

908
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: Not but that's using the formula that the nerds who

909
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: don't believe in the penalty is created. So you understand

910
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: that's a little bias, right, I.

911
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: We'll get to this all on.

912
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: Hang on just here. Yeah, teams that commit ten or

913
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: more penalties in the last ten years only win forty

914
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: four percent of the time.

915
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you could do that with anything. Teams that

916
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: teams that only throw for one hundred and fifty yards.

917
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: Here's my point. But no, But because one hundred and

918
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: fifty yards is an ab normally low.

919
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: Number, okay, right, ten penalties is an a normally high numbers.

920
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: Right, So that's my point. There's no correlation between penalties

921
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: and winning. No one said there's notion, What was the

922
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: exact I don't want to miss quote what was the

923
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 1: exact that it's just impactful.

924
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: So the three loss as much as other three things

925
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: that he highlighted that impact win loss at the most.

926
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: And this isn't to say that these don't other things

927
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: don't impact it at all. It's just the three most

928
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: important things. Turnover margin, yep epau per dropback or like

929
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: passer rating or whatever you want to use to UH

930
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: for quarterback efficiency, and rush differential. Those are the three things. Now,

931
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: rush differential is more about like when you have a

932
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 2: lead late, you're going to start running the differential?

933
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: Is it the cart or the horse?

934
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 4: Right?

935
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: All right? So just on the pet So okay, penalties

936
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: aren't the most impactful thing, but it can be if

937
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: you let them become a problem in the average.

938
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: So why it's in the bads?

939
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: It's just so okay, But this is this is you

940
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: can't The reason I put it in things that get

941
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: you beat is because they add up quickly and if

942
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: you limit them. Yes, they're not things that get you

943
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: beat if you keep them to a reasonable amount. But

944
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: it's really easy for fake Again I'm not accusing verbelists,

945
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: but it's really easy for some fans who subscribe to

946
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: the analytics to look at that and say, well, I'm

947
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: not going to worry about the penalty number because it's okay,

948
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: tory about eight penalties in a game with a crew

949
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: that's flag heavy doesn't get your beat, But that doesn't

950
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: mean you, like, you still have to clean it up.

951
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: You still absolutely have to clean the bad. To me

952
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,399
Speaker 1: is like the stuff that gets you beat is self

953
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: inflicted wounds. That's what I look at that category being

954
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: not all right like this. You know, it's not one

955
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: off bad plays, it's not the other team making plays,

956
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: it's not it's the things that are solely self inflicted

957
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: that are fixable. A lot of those penalties are solely

958
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: self inflicted things that are fixable, and you can't let

959
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: that number run.

960
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: Up this team in this regime. And I didn't want

961
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: to do this now. I wanted to do this in

962
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: the second hour, but I just just to finish this

963
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 2: debate we're having here. This team that we are watching,

964
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: in this regime that we are building here in New

965
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: England is analytically driven. And so you and your brethren

966
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: can all sit over there and you can all be

967
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: stubborn and just not accept it. For what it is,

968
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: or you can just understand that all thirty two teams

969
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: are headed in this direction, the Patriots included. So I

970
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: just don't really understand, like I guess, I just the

971
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: stubbornness is And I'm not like trying to come at you.

972
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't understand why we can't just

973
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: accept the fact that this is the way that it is.

974
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: And so instead of just trying to completely bad at

975
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: all the time, like just understand it. I'm not talking

976
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 2: about you. You understand the picture.

977
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: I think big picture because people don't want their sports

978
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: determined by numbers, and a lot of people see what's

979
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: happened with baseball and they don't want it going that

980
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: far to the point where it takes that we love

981
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: about the game. And they said that in baseball, No.

982
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: This is a different sport. It's a different sport, and

983
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: I I think the team sport baseball is not a

984
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: team sport.

985
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: I I I think the other side of it is

986
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: you your brethren. Yes, we're spent so much time speaking

987
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: down to my group. When Vrabel was, oh, you want

988
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: another meat head, Yeah, we're gonna he's Ben Johnson and

989
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: his changed to number. That's what we got to do.

990
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: This isn't what he was in Tennessee. So I I

991
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: was going off of what I knew. If I had

992
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: known that he was going to be uh so analytically

993
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: driven and taking all of this information that the analytics.

994
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: Been in Cleveland, and he's talked about how much that

995
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: experience has changed him.

996
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: I guess. I mean, look, I I he's always had

997
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: stretch with him, who is, by most accounts, maybe the

998
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 2: best analytics guy in the entire NFL. But it felt

999
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: like in Tennessee. And I wasn't watching Rabel press conferences

1000
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: in Tennessee like I'm watching him at the Patriots, But

1001
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 2: it felt like in Tennessee that he was much more

1002
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: of that thing go by your gut, you know, instincts

1003
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: and things like that. His decision making throughout and also

1004
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: some of the answers, like the answer that he had

1005
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: about like you know, teams that turn it over five

1006
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: times only win five percent, and like he has all

1007
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: these numbers that that is not the Rabel I remember

1008
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: from Tennessee.

1009
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: All says this. When we had the big argument Ben

1010
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: Johnson versus Mike Brady, just listen, we were in those

1011
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: low comfy chairs and we had that whole drag out thing,

1012
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: and that was probably the best show we've ever done.

1013
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that immensely. At one point the conversation became

1014
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: and I think that this was ultimately the debate. We

1015
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: agreed there were flaws with Rabel. We agreed there were

1016
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: flaws with Ben Johnson. Yeah, And I remember asking you this,

1017
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: is it easier to take a culture building coach and

1018
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: have him adjust schematically or is it easier to take

1019
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: the schematic analytics coach and have him learn to be

1020
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: a character builder? And I said, give me the guy

1021
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: that connects on a human level that we know can

1022
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: do that, and you put some different coaches around him,

1023
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: you put some different coordinators around him, and maybe the

1024
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: philosophical approach to the football is a little different. That's

1025
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: what I wanted from Mike Rabel. Is that not exactly

1026
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: three I mean it's three games, but like, yeah, but

1027
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: you would want to know. You wanted analytics, you wanted

1028
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: heavy motion, you want it outside zone. What are they

1029
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: doing Evan? Yeah, and and but that, but they're doing

1030
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: everything you wanted. But we got the guy that has

1031
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: actually established a culture.

1032
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 2: So really, and I'm not like mad about it, Like, really,

1033
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: what I know you're not mad about it, but really,

1034
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: what we're what we're getting right out of this marriage,

1035
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: which I think is what's happening here is this is

1036
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: this feels so far a lot like the Detroit Lions,

1037
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 2: where Dan Campbell is mister kneecaps right, like he's biting

1038
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: off knee caps and stuff like that. But when you

1039
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: actually that's Dan Campbell's personality, that's his outward facing personality.

1040
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 2: But when you actually look at the process by the Lions,

1041
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 2: the Lions are probably the most analytically driven team in

1042
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 2: the NFL.

1043
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: Look, every time we talk about a team, you say

1044
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: that the most analytically driven. Did you said about the

1045
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: Browns the other day?

1046
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: Well, the Browns try to be, but like the Lions

1047
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: do it at the Lions successfully do it? Okay, right

1048
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: the Lions, I mean, come on, Like the fourth down

1049
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 2: decision making that the Lions are doing is all analytically driven,

1050
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: and the Patriots fourth down decision making so far has

1051
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 2: all been analytically driven too, So like it.

1052
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 5: I like it.

1053
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: I like where they're headed now the offense stuff. I'll

1054
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: just say this not to take anything away from Rable

1055
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: and and what he's brought into the table. I do

1056
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: wish that there were a little bit more credit going

1057
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: to the offense to Josh, because I think Josh McDaniels,

1058
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of talk right now that

1059
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels is bending the need to the way that

1060
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: Rabel and Vrabel's guys want to run the offense. It's

1061
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: West Coast, right, They're turning into a West Coast offense,

1062
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 2: and I think that's really unfair to the guy calling

1063
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 2: the plays and the guy that's the offensive coordinator by

1064
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: title and is, you know, one of the best in

1065
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: the league in my opinion, and that's been my opinion

1066
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 2: for a while now. I just to try to make

1067
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: it like there's this like you know, inner turmoil of

1068
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: like who's in charge and like who gets to run

1069
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 2: the I that's just not like fair to me to McDaniels,

1070
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 2: because I think McDaniel's doing a great job not only

1071
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: with the offense and the system and the scheme, but

1072
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: also with Drake May and he deserves that credit. That

1073
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that Rabel doesn't deserve any of the credit,

1074
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: but I just that would be the only pushback that

1075
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 2: I would have towards all this right now. But analytics wise,

1076
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: what they're doing offensively is exactly what I wanted. And

1077
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: I'm just surprised that Rabel has gone this far this way.

1078
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: I did not think that he would be this kind

1079
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: of coach. You thought that he was going to do this.

1080
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: You're smiling over there like you knew this was coming.

1081
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: I remember saying at the time, No, you did not know,

1082
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: not to this extent. Fair, but no, I remember. Part

1083
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: of my take at the time was he's not let's

1084
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: see the staff he hires, right that with Ben Johnson,

1085
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: so much is on him because the things he does well,

1086
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: you can hire coaches to do well. The things we

1087
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,479
Speaker 1: didn't know about him, you really couldn't substitute the things.

1088
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: The things we knew Mike Rabel did well are things

1089
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: you can't Your personality is your personality. Your ability to

1090
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: connect on a human level is not. It's a hard

1091
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: you can't really learn that.

1092
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: It's two different brands. He has made it two different brands.

1093
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: Whereas some of the schematic stuff, and if so, the

1094
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: schematic stuff, I thought there was a chance into this

1095
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: that they were going to come in and it was

1096
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: going to look different like what he did in Tennessee.

1097
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: The analytics stuff, all right, that's a little surprising, but

1098
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same idea. Mike Rabel doesn't have

1099
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: to be the biggest analytics guy on the planet, but

1100
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: if he if you think, if you're somebody whoinks it's important,

1101
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: he's opened the door to it, and he's gotten people

1102
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: and who can do it.

1103
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they've expanded the department. I mean, stretches is stretched.

1104
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 2: But they hired like five or six people I remember

1105
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 2: Yah hiring. Not to relitigate this whole thing again.

1106
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take a victory lot because it's only

1107
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: two games in, but just to revisit the conversation now

1108
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: that we have it happening in practice, hiring Ben Johnson,

1109
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: who who is going to be able to handle some

1110
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: of the character stuff that because Rabel has started to

1111
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: change the culture. It's not done yet, but he's clearly

1112
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: started to change the culture and the player is clearly

1113
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: truly believe in what he's doing. Like if Ben Johnson

1114
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: wasn't able to rise to that as a head coach,

1115
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 1: the Bears are what one. I'm using Ben Johnson because

1116
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,479
Speaker 1: he was the guy, but like Mike McDaniel is probably

1117
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 1: the better example, right because that was my worst case scenario.

1118
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: But that's that's what you risk when you hire that guy,

1119
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: is that he's a great x's and o's mind, But

1120
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: is he a leader of men? And you can't substance.

1121
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: You can't hire somebody else. We see teams try to

1122
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: do that. Who was was it no Staley? Staley? Remember

1123
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: they had to hire somebody to essentially like be the

1124
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 1: head coach on game days.

1125
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 2: But Staley is also a defensive guy, right, But like

1126
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: you can't and you can't subside. So far we both

1127
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: got and what we've wanted out of this, which is awesome.

1128
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 2: But besides the fact that they're wanting to yah. But

1129
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: I know, big picture looking at the rebuilt. But here's

1130
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: the I don't think.

1131
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: I only think splitting, like like having your cake and

1132
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: eating it too. I think Rabel's the only guy who

1133
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: offered them that opportunity. I don't think any of the

1134
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: other coaches we talked about this offseason would have come

1135
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: in and been able to go both ways the way

1136
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: he has.

1137
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: Fair Enough, All right, let's get to the stuff that

1138
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: gets to be and then we got to take a

1139
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 2: break and do some reeds and pay the bills a

1140
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 2: little bit here. Yeah, but uh, you know, really the

1141
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 2: five turnovers four of the fund the four fumbles are

1142
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: pretty self explanatory, Okay, like Remandre fumbled twice, Gibson fumbled,

1143
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 2: got to hold onto the book. They're a little they're

1144
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: all a little different, but like, can we break it

1145
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: down a little bit, I guess, But I really wanted

1146
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 2: to talk about the interception. But yeah, okay, here's what

1147
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 2: take Yep, the Drake May one, because I think three

1148
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: of them are avoidable. Are mostly they're all avoidable, but

1149
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: three of them are relatively avoidable.

1150
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: The Drake May one. I actually pulled the stopwatch out

1151
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: for this. He was in the pocket for six point

1152
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: one seconds. It's entirely too long to be in the pocket.

1153
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that Drake May should never hold

1154
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: the football. I like his ability to extend plays and

1155
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: create off structure, and that's all good, and I have

1156
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: no problem with him doing that.

1157
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: But at a certain point, I know when the journey's over, well.

1158
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: It's not even that, just leave the pocket, go do

1159
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: all that over there, because when you're am I wrong,

1160
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: like when you're asking your lineman all five your linemen

1161
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: to hold up for that long, that's a major ask.

1162
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: And if he at least rolls out well now, especially.

1163
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: Once he starts running around, because now, like I've seen

1164
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: this clip, was hard to cut you off, but like

1165
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: I've seen this clip, you know, go out there and

1166
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 2: like Will Campbell's just kind of standing around. But once

1167
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: the quarterback breaks out like that and starts running around

1168
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: like there's nothing the lineman can do, right, like you

1169
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 2: don't know where he is, and then you're then you're

1170
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 2: gonna get holding and like it just at that point,

1171
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: the lineman is kind of you know, like at the

1172
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 2: quarterback's mercy, like the tricky thing is, like that's why.

1173
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: So he kind of runs around, but he stays in

1174
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: the same place. Yeah, he just sort of runs in

1175
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: certain you got to bail out.

1176
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: So that's why he got into the twister little.

1177
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: I have no problem with him holding the ball. The

1178
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: issue wasn't holding him the ball entirely, but at a

1179
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: certain point you got to know when to leave the

1180
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: pocket and continue to try to make something else happen,

1181
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: especially on first down, Like.

1182
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that fumble was you know, I actually

1183
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: think they got what they wanted from a pass game perspective,

1184
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: they they had Kyle Williams running a double move on

1185
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: the right sideline and Drake tried to pump off the

1186
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 2: corner and get Williams vertical, and Williams didn't get open,

1187
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 2: but the safety like jumped it over the top. And

1188
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: they had Henry on the opposite seam against Drew vill

1189
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 2: Peppers and man to man coverage, and Henry was winning

1190
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 2: up the seam on Peppers. And then when Drake came

1191
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: off the pump, you know, to the double move, and

1192
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: came to the seam, there was a collision in the

1193
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: middle of the line and there was there was bodies

1194
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: at his feet, and when there was the bodies at

1195
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 2: his feet, he kind of got happy feet a little

1196
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: bit and got he couldn't step into the throw to Henry,

1197
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,919
Speaker 2: and so he pulled it down. But what I would

1198
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: like to see you more so than just like the

1199
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: running around is kind of secondary to this, Like that's

1200
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 2: obviously got to stop, but I think he's got the

1201
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: arm talent to just let that thing just and there's

1202
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: nobody over the top of it because the safety's over

1203
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 2: the top of Kyle Williams. So like if you just

1204
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: aren't like if you throw an actual deep ball and

1205
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: not like a seam, not like a drive throw, but

1206
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: actually just kind of loop it up there, like the

1207
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: worst case scenario is that it's gonna Yeah.

1208
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: And I wonder if some of that is, you know,

1209
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: the emphasis on setting his feet after the first couple weeks.

1210
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: Just roll out. But the irony was that he was

1211
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: trying to avoid a turnover and then he.

1212
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: And yeah he was too paranoid about one thing. So again,

1213
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: just just roll out, just roll out. That's all massive

1214
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: on that one, the Antonio Gibson one, that one look

1215
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: hold on to the football, but tip your captain j

1216
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: of broll Peppers. It's a heck of a play. We

1217
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: saw him make that play here, a toide gets lower in,

1218
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: the running back gets his helmet on the football. Probably

1219
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: little easier with that guardian camp. He got a more room, right,

1220
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: And again you don't want to see a fumble. But

1221
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: that was the one that I looked at, Right, that's

1222
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: a really competitive play by the defense, and the defense

1223
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: made that play happen. And you know, not to again

1224
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: not to totally excuse it, but I thought that was

1225
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: a good play. The Stevenson ones were weird because he's

1226
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: like through the line and he gets grabbed from behind.

1227
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: From like three gaps over too.

1228
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: I know though, those ones to me felt avoidable.

1229
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, those ones were weird.

1230
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: Because you can't even really he's through again, he's through

1231
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: the line, yeah, and it's it's just contact from behind.

1232
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: He seems to lose track of the ball.

1233
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 2: Will get more to Stevenson, but yeah, so yep, no,

1234
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: I'm with you on all of them. With the interception,

1235
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: and this kind of segues into the next thing I

1236
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about just the interception, situational football in general.

1237
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 2: Two for four in the red zone with two turnovers,

1238
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: so that's not only are you taking touchdowns off the

1239
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 2: board in the red zone, but that you're taking points

1240
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 2: to get all together off the board by turning it

1241
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 2: over twice in the red zone. And then you know,

1242
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 2: obviously this conversation that's on going about popping Stevenson that well,

1243
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: we'll get to that specifically after the break. But on

1244
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 2: the interception, I think that there's a couple of things

1245
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 2: at play here. The biggest one to me is it's

1246
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 2: the round ball, and he talked about this after the game.

1247
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: He tried to drive it through the first window instead

1248
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: of trying to just throw it over the top. So

1249
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 2: like in that case, you got to throw that ball

1250
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: to the back of the end zone and it's either

1251
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: out of bounds or it's keish on booties, Like there's

1252
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: no there's no way that the corner comes in play.

1253
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know it's the wrong

1254
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: ball and that's on Drake. Also, just quickly, Brady has

1255
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: talked about this. The ball gets tipped a lot in

1256
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: the low red zone, and if you throw it high,

1257
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: you're not gonna it's not gonna get tipped. Like the

1258
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: only reason why cam Hayward gets a hand on it

1259
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 2: is because Drake tries to drive the ball through the

1260
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: defense instead of layering it over the top of the defense.

1261
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 2: If he throws that ball of the air underneath it,

1262
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: then cam Hayward's hand never comes into play either. So

1263
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: it's just that was created all by Drake in terms

1264
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 2: of the type of throw that he made on the play. Now,

1265
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 2: the pop Douglas of it all, I think a real

1266
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 2: sneaky thing that goes unnoticed on this play. The Patriots

1267
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 2: tried to run. You know, it's becoming a very staple

1268
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: red zone concept. They tried to run a zipper motion

1269
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: or a return motion where Pop's going to motion into

1270
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 2: the formation and then he's going to fire out into

1271
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 2: the flat, and they're basically running smash like corner flat

1272
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: and they're trying to high low the corner out there

1273
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: where if the corner goes back and plays the corner,

1274
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: then he's gonna throw the flat. If he jumps the flat,

1275
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: he throws the corner. And the issue that happens here

1276
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 2: is that Pop like doesn't really run the flat, like

1277
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: he kind of gets caught up in some bodies, you know,

1278
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: on the motion, and then he doesn't really get all

1279
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: the way out to the flat, and that just really

1280
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 2: freed up the corner to play to just kind of

1281
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 2: play that corner route there by booty. So this comes

1282
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 2: back to all the Pop stuff that I want to

1283
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: get to when we come out of the break of

1284
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 2: just the awareness and like the the attention to detail

1285
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: that I think his game is still missing. That is

1286
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: really what's holding him back at this point. If he

1287
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: runs that flat and the corner was already kind of

1288
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: coming up to jump the flat, then that's an even

1289
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 2: easy even if it gets tipped. I think that might

1290
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: still be a touchdown anyways, even through the tip, but

1291
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: because the corner is able to come off the flat

1292
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: because of Pop Douglas route, he gets into the wind

1293
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: and picks off the pass. So that situational football stuff.

1294
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: I want to talk about some of that with Pop

1295
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 2: and the awareness. I want to talk about Remandre and

1296
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 2: what the future hole is there for him. But we're

1297
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 2: gonna throw this to break real quick, as we got

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1363
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Speaker 2: All right, Let's let's breeze through three, up through down here,

1364
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna take your calls and emails. And

1365
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 2: I do want to talk about Stevenson and Pop and

1366
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 2: our takes on that as situation. Those situations plural as well,

1367
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 2: So let's just breeze through these. Number one up for

1368
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 2: me was Hunter Henry in this game nine eight catches,

1369
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 2: ninety yards, two touchdowns gains of eighteen fifteen and then

1370
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: sixteen yard touchdown on fourth and two. Great play by him,

1371
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 2: great throw by Drake may. I just thought Hunter Henry

1372
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: was was nails in this game.

1373
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: He's really good. Yeah, I'll leave it's still good at

1374
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: this age. And he's going to be a big part

1375
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: of what they do.

1376
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: It also made a sneaky downfield block on Drake's fifteen

1377
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 2: yard scramble in the second quarter. Just a really good game.

1378
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: Also came back in the game after it looked like

1379
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: he'd gotten hurt at one point.

1380
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, really good game.

1381
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: That's the guy that needs to stay healthy. My every

1382
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: one was Robert Splaine. You see how differently, and he

1383
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: wasn't the entire reason the defense played better, but you

1384
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: see how differently the defense operates when he's on his

1385
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: game and tackling and you know, flying to the football.

1386
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: So they need him. We talked about this last week

1387
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: there with where they're struggling with linebacker play. There's a

1388
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: couple of things they can do here and there to

1389
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: maybe compensate for that elsewhere. But really a lot of it,

1390
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: as much as we like to do the in depth

1391
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: on this show, a lot of it really simply was

1392
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: just that he needed to play better, period, full stop. Yeah,

1393
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: and so it's good to see him. There's still a

1394
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: little room improved, but it's good to see him get

1395
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: back on the right track and look more like the

1396
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: player we saw this summer, and that we've seen him

1397
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: be in the past.

1398
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had him to you know, the pick three

1399
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 2: run stuffs, fourteen total tackles. Just he was kind of

1400
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 2: all over the place in this.

1401
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: Game, which is exactly what you expect.

1402
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: Now. The fifteen yard are to warrant on the final

1403
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 2: drive is him, you know, it's that's his zone and

1404
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: his coverage. But that's not really his game. Like the

1405
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 2: game that they let him play for the majority of

1406
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 2: this game is the game he needs to play, you know,

1407
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 2: cleaning up and just hustle and you know, see ball,

1408
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 2: get ball, read and react, you know that sort of thing.

1409
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 2: I thought that they had him in better positions. I

1410
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 2: thought that he played a lot better in this game.

1411
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 2: Zero miss tackles in this game for him, just a

1412
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 2: big improvement from Roberts Plaine yep. Number two Hunter Henry, Yeah,

1413
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: number three kiros Tonga, that's beast. He is a beast.

1414
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,439
Speaker 1: How awesome is Kyrie just comes in completely unassuming site.

1415
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: He was like the last guy they signed that day

1416
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: they signed Splain and Milton Williams. It was like a

1417
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: really busy day. It was like him and Mac Williams

1418
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: or I was home at that point, like eating dinner

1419
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: kind of a throw in.

1420
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 2: I think.

1421
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: I think like I was on with you or somebody

1422
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: one of the shows I did when were doing the

1423
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: free agency recap, like skipped Kyris Tong. He was just

1424
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,479
Speaker 1: skipping him, some fringe guy. No, he's he's a baller dude.

1425
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: He's awesome and he's fun to watch and you can

1426
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: tell he his fun playing a game. It's getting into

1427
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: the backfield against the run. He's getting into the backfield

1428
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: against the pass, really really really good find early by

1429
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:21,799
Speaker 1: this front office.

1430
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: There was multiple run stuffs that he contributed to that

1431
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: he didn't necessarily make the tackle, yeah, but his penetration

1432
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 2: is what blew up the play. And then he also

1433
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 2: drew a hold where he put Zach Frazier, the Steelers center,

1434
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: just on skates and the guy just had to hold

1435
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 2: on to him for dear life. He The only thing

1436
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 2: that I can think of that is keeping his snapcount

1437
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: low is conditioning like he's a three hundred and thirty

1438
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 2: five pound guy.

1439
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: So that's the only thing a game two other really

1440
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: good defensive time, but he's just wrecking things whenever he's

1441
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: in there.

1442
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 2: So now maybe that's the best role for him is

1443
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: to play twenty twenty five snap.

1444
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: I think it is. Maybe that's just what and maybe

1445
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 1: you up it a little bit as you get more

1446
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: of the year and you can give Barmore and Williams

1447
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: a little more rest when you need. But I mean

1448
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 1: he's the third guy in that room. But it's a

1449
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: good Is that their best room right now?

1450
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 2: Probably?

1451
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1452
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean mel Williams is awesome defensive line.

1453
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: You want to throw Harold Landry in there.

1454
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 2: So, So Harrol Landry was the other guy that I

1455
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 2: had written down two pressures forth fumble, also tackle for

1456
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: loss and coverage, you know, dropping out as the end

1457
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 2: and tackling the running back there. I just think he

1458
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 2: makes like four or five impactful plays a game. I

1459
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 2: agree where I'm jotting down, you know, Harold Landry's name.

1460
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 2: So I was really impressed with him. On the downside,

1461
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: I personally stayed away from Pop and Stevenson. I think

1462
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 2: those are obvious. I wanted to kind of talk about

1463
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 2: some of these guys that I think were kind of

1464
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 2: on the downs that maybe weren't as obvious as the

1465
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 2: two most obvious ones.

1466
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: Ball security as one that includes Ramandre and Drake may

1467
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: to an extent.

1468
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: So my number one downs in this game where Christian

1469
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 2: Ellis and Alex Austin, who both got benched in the game.

1470
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 2: And I said earlier, I thought it was good that

1471
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 2: they showed some accountability on the defensive side of the

1472
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 2: ball by by benching them. But they were hoping, especially Ellis,

1473
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 2: but I would say Austin too, as kind of that

1474
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 2: third or fourth cornerback. But these guys were going to

1475
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 2: be contributors for them, not stars, not you know, high

1476
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,560
Speaker 2: impact players, but contributors. And the linebacker spot next to

1477
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 2: Splaine now is a question mark. I'm honestly week four,

1478
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm kind of talking about Jolanie Tvai in my head again,

1479
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: like is that an answer for them when he comes

1480
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 2: back off injured reserve? Alex Austin, you know, at this

1481
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 2: point that doesn't seem very playable at corner, which is

1482
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: a bummer because I thought that he had a great

1483
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 2: camp and I thought he had a great end of

1484
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: the season last year, and I thought he was kind

1485
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 2: of coming on as a contributor and a player that

1486
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: they could rely on. And they just don't really seem

1487
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 2: like they can rely on either of those guys. So

1488
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 2: a hit for your linebacker depth and a hit for

1489
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 2: your cornerback debt.

1490
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, where they didn't have a lot of depth at

1491
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: linebacker before that that one especially.

1492
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 2: Uh so you had ball security, had ball security.

1493
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 1: I just had that sequence on the goal line, Like

1494
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,839
Speaker 1: I know, you just kind of sang Josh mcdangel's praises

1495
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: and I don't want to put him as a down

1496
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: because for the most part they were good in that game.

1497
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: You got to run the ball there at least once. Yeah,

1498
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: you got to run the ball there at the end

1499
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: of the half.

1500
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 2: Checked out of a couple I think, yeah, it's specific.

1501
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 2: I think Drake specifically said second down it was a

1502
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: run play and he got to look the they were.

1503
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: They were blowing the Steelers line off the ball at

1504
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: that point. That was a long drive to that defense

1505
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: was gassed. Put the big heavies in row, a six

1506
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: offensive linemen in there, put somebody in the backfield as

1507
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 1: a full back, and just make them just sheer will stop.

1508
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was.

1509
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 1: I think will And this isn't just caveman, you know,

1510
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: run well no, no, no, let me explain some mo.

1511
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: This isn't just caveman. You're on the goal line, run

1512
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: the goal like go to the goal line play formation

1513
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: in the Madden playbook can run it. That was like

1514
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: an eight minute drive. Take advantage of the fatigue of

1515
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 1: those guys and blow them back off the board.

1516
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 2: You're right, and I think one of the good things or.

1517
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 1: Five wide QB power.

1518
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 2: They haven't done that yet, which I don't know exactly

1519
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 2: why not, so I'll be honest.

1520
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: That's in uh not mad but in like the college

1521
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: game this year. That's like something that's really hard to defend.

1522
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: You go five wide and you either hit the quick

1523
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: screen or you just QB power it if they have

1524
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: too many guys in the box, and it's so hard

1525
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 1: to stop if you have the right quarterbacks. So I'm

1526
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: obsessed with that plane.

1527
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 2: Now they did a lot with Cam in twenty twenty.

1528
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 2: Now Cam's a different animal. He is two hundred and

1529
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: fifty pounds, but that's in the bag, like that's in

1530
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 2: the well.

1531
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: That would have been I think that would have been

1532
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: a good time to pull it out.

1533
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: They've motioned the running back a couple of times to

1534
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: get indicators, and every time they motion them out into

1535
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: empty I keep thinking that that QB power is coming,

1536
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 2: and then they motion them back in and they don't

1537
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 2: do it. So at some point I think that the

1538
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 2: design quarterback runs will come out. Maybe they're saving those

1539
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,560
Speaker 2: for later in the season for kind you know. I

1540
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: know this is kind of silly to say with the

1541
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 2: rebuilding team, but like bigger stakes.

1542
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:02,600
Speaker 1: And Josh has history of that.

1543
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we said this.

1544
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: His offense is never the same in December, that is

1545
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: in September.

1546
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh. Number two for me it was Will Campbell.

1547
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 2: I thought Will Campbell struggled in this game, and I

1548
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 2: want to be fair and I want to be objective.

1549
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 2: I sing his praises all the time when he's good.

1550
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to be you know, I

1551
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: don't want to run away when he's when he's bad.

1552
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: In this game, I had him with six pressures, PFF

1553
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 2: had him with four. I think some of the things

1554
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 2: seven they did after the game, but there they dropped it.

1555
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 2: They review it. Uh. The some of the short corners,

1556
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: the beauty is in the I the beholder like do

1557
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: you is it too short?

1558
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 6: Is it not?

1559
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?

1560
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 2: Like the around the corner, you know, short corners like

1561
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: you can kind of gauge at eye probably was a

1562
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: little bit more nitpicky on some of those than PFF.

1563
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 2: And that's why we had slightly different number. You want

1564
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 2: to split the difference and call it five, we can

1565
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 2: call it five.

1566
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 1: We'll call it five.

1567
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 2: Five is a little bit too much. Now. The one

1568
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: thing that I really concern me the most about it

1569
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 2: not concerned, but like the reason why he's on the downs,

1570
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 2: the inside moves, Like that's the one thing that I

1571
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 2: don't want to see Campbell give up. I want to

1572
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 2: see him fix that. Herbig got him twice on inside moves,

1573
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 2: one of them down on the goal line on the

1574
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 2: throw to Hunter Henry on the first down play, I

1575
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 2: want to say it was second Yeah, second down one.

1576
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: That's why May threw the next one so quickly.

1577
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, second down play. He beat there's a you know,

1578
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 2: a blowby beat him clean on an inside move. Then

1579
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 2: later on in the game he beat him again on

1580
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 2: an inside move. Campbell wrote him down a little bit

1581
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 2: better this time, but still registered a quarterback hit. Herbig

1582
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 2: didn't get the sack, but it led to a sack.

1583
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: The pressure led to a sack. I still am fully

1584
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 2: on board and in on Will Campbell. I looked this

1585
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 2: up last night because I wanted to kind of get

1586
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 2: a more big picture of you. He is right in

1587
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 2: the middle of the pack right now in pass blocking efficiency.

1588
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 2: He's thirty fourth out of sixty two tackles. I will

1589
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 2: take it average pass protection out of him. His rookie

1590
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 2: season is exactly what they were looking for, just get

1591
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 2: back to level at that position. I think he's still

1592
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 2: an impact run blocker and if he's an average pass protector.

1593
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 2: You know, when they drafted him, we talked about this.

1594
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: He's not Jonathan Ogden, He's not Joe Thomas. He was

1595
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 2: not that level of prospect. He's not Joe all right,

1596
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 2: Like that wasn't the prospect he was. He was much

1597
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 2: more in that you know, Jake Matthews like type of

1598
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 2: mold right where he's going to be a good tackle

1599
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 2: for ten years, but he might not be a he

1600
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 2: might not have a gold jacket on when this is

1601
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 2: all said and done, and I think I will take

1602
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 2: it on the whole. The her big matchup in general

1603
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:40,719
Speaker 2: is going to give Those are the kind of guys

1604
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 2: that are going to give him problems. The speed guys

1605
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: that can get out on the edge, that can get

1606
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 2: him opened up and then open up those inside moves.

1607
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 2: Those are going to be the ones that they're going

1608
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 2: to have to manage with Will Campbell and maybe chip

1609
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 2: or slide or send some extra help that direction. Because

1610
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: of the lack of reach, it makes it harder for

1611
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 2: him to get out to those guys, and so then

1612
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:03,879
Speaker 2: he overcompensates and then they beat him to the inside.

1613
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 2: So so sorry.

1614
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: That was the other thing I noticed too, like they

1615
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: sent more help to the right side in this game

1616
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 1: than they had spots on right. No, I'm not saying

1617
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: that that's and I think that that's a vote in

1618
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 1: the confidence of Will Campbell and what he did in

1619
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: the first two games. I had the offensive line as

1620
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 1: a whole as a down. I thought, you know, Campbell's

1621
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: obviously a part of that.

1622
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 2: He didn't. This was his worst game.

1623
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 1: I will say though, just for reference, I looked this

1624
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: up because I was curious.

1625
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 7: So they.

1626
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: NFL Pro Next Gen stats whatever you want to call

1627
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: that one had the pressure rate at forty point four percent,

1628
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: which is high. Yep, I mean it's you want to

1629
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 1: be learning that That would have been their eighth highest

1630
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 1: pressure rate in a game last year.

1631
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 2: Better.

1632
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: So if this is their floor again, they need to

1633
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,440
Speaker 1: be better than that, and I think they exceeded expectations

1634
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 1: the first two weeks, which is why this feels so jarring.

1635
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 1: I think they're probably somewhere in between what they were

1636
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 1: the first two weeks and what they were in this game.

1637
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: But like, I'll take that as a floor. If that's

1638
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: your worst game or one of your like two or

1639
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,280
Speaker 1: three worst games, you have a solid offensive line. So

1640
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, we have that kind of

1641
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: performance assuming everybody's healthy. Like, I think that's their floor

1642
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,520
Speaker 1: if they're healthy. Once I start losing guys, that's another conversation.

1643
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: But if that's as bad as they get and they

1644
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 1: don't play that way consistently, and they're better than that consistently, Like,

1645
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about where they're aut on the

1646
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: offensive line.

1647
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 2: So they faced some individual good rushers, you know, Crosby Watt,

1648
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 2: you know, players like that, like.

1649
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: The best group.

1650
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: The Steelers front is the best group. It hasn't in

1651
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 2: terms of strength of schedule. They haven't faced a murderer's

1652
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 2: row of fronts yet. But just by the numbers, do

1653
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 2: they the composite raking So Ben Bawling tracks this PFF

1654
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 2: grade blown block percentage in past rush un lay or

1655
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 2: pass blocking win rate. The Patriots composite grade right now

1656
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 2: and those three metrics is seventh in the league. They

1657
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 2: have the seventh best pass protection in the NFL. Now,

1658
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 2: that seems a little high, just eye test wise, Like,

1659
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 2: I think they're probably more middle of the past.

1660
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they.

1661
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 2: I think that's so much better. I think that's accurate

1662
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: in terms of what they've done to this point. Yeah,

1663
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 2: I just don't when they face better fronts, it might

1664
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 2: not be exactly.

1665
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 1: I think they exceeded expectations the first tea games. I

1666
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:08,719
Speaker 1: don't think they're gonna be that good all the way.

1667
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,760
Speaker 2: But so much better, I mean, marketably better than where

1668
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 2: it was last year, which I know is not the bar,

1669
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 2: but it's still nice, Like it's still refreshing that it's

1670
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 2: so much better. So you had offensive line ball security, right,

1671
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 2: So aro on three, yep, number three, I want to

1672
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 2: talk about this a little bit. I think we're on

1673
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 2: the same page here. I had Travon Henderson as the

1674
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 2: third down and again this is outside of the obvious

1675
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 2: ones of Vermandro Stevenson and pop.

1676
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 1: Pop.

1677
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: So Travon Henderson. I want to see Travon Henderson play more.

1678
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 2: I wanted. I shouldn't say play more. I want to

1679
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 2: see Travon Henderson succeed. I want him to flourish. I

1680
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 2: want him to be the guy that we all thought

1681
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 2: he was in training camp and in the preseason. But

1682
01:18:55,000 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 2: so far the tape through three games has not been great.

1683
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 2: I think the main thing that I'm seeing with him.

1684
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 2: I know all of us are talking a lot about

1685
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 2: the pass protection stuff, which is important and again came

1686
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 2: up in this game. He allowed another hurry early. He

1687
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 2: did have a really good rep late in this game

1688
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 2: in pass protection that was much more indicative of like

1689
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 2: his college tape in that regard, But another missed, you know,

1690
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 2: blitz assignment early in this game that led to a

1691
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 2: quarterback hit. But it's the the running in the vision.

1692
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 2: He has a little bit of tunnel vision right now

1693
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,879
Speaker 2: when he runs between the tackles and he's not tempoing

1694
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 2: runs great.

1695
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 1: Right, So like right, what he is something he did

1696
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:37,639
Speaker 1: so well in college.

1697
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 2: He's literally just smashing into the line of scrimmage right now.

1698
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 2: So do you think into crowds.

1699
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 1: Is that a vision issue or is that a patient's issue?

1700
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 2: Both? Okay, I think that he's missing cutback lanes but

1701
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 2: I also think that because he's going so fast that

1702
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 2: there's not enough time for him to read and react

1703
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 2: to the developing.

1704
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: More of a vision issue or is it more of

1705
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 1: a patient's issue.

1706
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 2: I think it's more of a patient's issue that feels

1707
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 2: easier to fix. You have to know, and I said

1708
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 2: this yesterday on PU running back, is tempoing runs is

1709
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 2: really important. Yeah, you have to know. You don't have

1710
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 2: to go one hundred miles an hour all the time.

1711
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 2: You have to know when to put it into first

1712
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 2: gear and then when to put it into six to

1713
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 2: three year. And you have to have those different gears

1714
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 2: as a running back because you need to allow the

1715
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 2: blocking to develop. You know, the easiest, the best thing

1716
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 2: that you can do as a running back is let

1717
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 2: your blockers do the dirty work, like let them get

1718
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 2: the run going, and then it's your job to then

1719
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 2: get up to the second and third level and make

1720
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 2: the unblocked guys miss right like that, that is where

1721
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 2: your job is. So with Henderson, I think you saw

1722
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 2: it a little bit too on his screen target as well.

1723
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: He's just not seeing the field very well right now

1724
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 2: in terms of cutting off blocks and patients behind his

1725
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 2: blocks and all these different things. So I look at

1726
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: it and think that this is just all moving a

1727
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 2: little bit fast for him right now. I think he's

1728
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 2: a little bit sped up with his reads and that

1729
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 2: is very, very common for a young running back. What

1730
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 2: that being said, the worst thing for them to probably

1731
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 2: do is to throw him out there for fifty snaps

1732
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: on Sunday, right like they have to. He has to

1733
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 2: work on these things. So now that being said, his

1734
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 2: speed is so important to this offense that maybe it's

1735
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 2: like a package of plays where you're using him almost

1736
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 2: as like a gadget player, where it's motions, it's screens,

1737
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 2: it's vertical routes out of the backfield. Like it's not

1738
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:38,640
Speaker 2: traditional offense. It's more of like a package of specialized

1739
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 2: plays that is meant to get his game breaking speed

1740
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 2: on the field. Let's call it fifteen to twenty times

1741
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 2: a game. And I think that's where we're at right

1742
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 2: now at Trebon.

1743
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: And I've talked to this like when he's used as

1744
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: a high volume guy, he's not as effective. That was

1745
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 1: the case in college to begin with. So yeah, for me,

1746
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 1: out of is it maybe just the speed of the

1747
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: NFL game too, That's part of it because he's used

1748
01:21:58,080 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 1: to some lanes that would be there in college, maybe

1749
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,640
Speaker 1: especially bringing right, that just aren't there right now. So

1750
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: I think it's not that out of character for a

1751
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 1: young running back, No, but it is something he needs

1752
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: to improve on. I don't think the answer they're a

1753
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 1: little stagnant when he's on the field right now. Offensively,

1754
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: that's just the reality of it, and you need to

1755
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: give him reps to break through. So I'm not saying

1756
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,719
Speaker 1: don't play them, especially with what's going on with demandre

1757
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 1: but you also don't want to. I don't think the

1758
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: answer to Trayvon Henderson struggling is more Travon Henderson. I

1759
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: don't think that that's gonna help him. I don't think

1760
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: that's gonna help the team either. To your point, pick

1761
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 1: your spots, try to get him on the outside maybe

1762
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 1: a little more.

1763
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to see some of that. But

1764
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 2: they they ran a toss to him and Campbell probably

1765
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 2: could have gotten into the block a little bit faster.

1766
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,640
Speaker 2: But Travon also just like gave him no time to

1767
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: get to the you know, and he just kind of

1768
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 2: ran right right by Campbell. So I would like to

1769
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 2: see that too, Like tosses, swing passes, obviously, verticals out

1770
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: of the backfield. You know, they ran one in Miami

1771
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 2: and they ran that pickplay for him and it worked.

1772
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 2: You know, like things like that that are less, less

1773
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 2: reading and reacting for him and more let's just get

1774
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:08,599
Speaker 2: his space and his speed into space.

1775
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not like worried about him big picture, but

1776
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 1: there's just some things he needs to improve on.

1777
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I exactly. And you know, ask did you do

1778
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:16,559
Speaker 2: your third one?

1779
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: My last one was Pop Douglas.

1780
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:20,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's let's talk about this.

1781
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's do Remondre first, because I think they're related. Yeah,

1782
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: because you know, I got asked on the radio this

1783
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 1: morning and just.

1784
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 2: To be clear, like this is our take on what

1785
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 2: they should do with these two guys moving forward.

1786
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I got it well, but I think

1787
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: we need to have a The reason I want to

1788
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 1: do Ramondre first is because I don't think the question

1789
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 1: is what do you do with Ramondre Stevenson. I think

1790
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 1: the question is what do you do about the running

1791
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: back room?

1792
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 2: The room as a whole is all of them have flaws.

1793
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: There's no obvious if they had a guy, if Trayvon

1794
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: Henderson was out there lighting it up, or Antonio Gibson

1795
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 1: was out there lighting it up. It's a lot. It's

1796
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 1: an easy conversation, right one. I I'm kind of surprised

1797
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 1: they didn't add it back, and I guess they still can.

1798
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday morning. They have an open roster spot, so

1799
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: let's not roll it out entirely. But the thing with

1800
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 1: Stevenson is, and all right, let me start here before

1801
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,799
Speaker 1: people say I'm being an apologist or I'm making excuses.

1802
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 1: You can't put the ball on the ground, period, but

1803
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: especially the way he's done it, and you look at

1804
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: his history from last year. I'm somebody who said, hey,

1805
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 1: he didn't have a fumble problem in the first three years.

1806
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 1: He had it last year. But let's se if he

1807
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:28,679
Speaker 1: can get back on track. It looks like maybe he didn't.

1808
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: You cannot put the ball on the ground, but period,

1809
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: full stop. When he has been on the field, though

1810
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,760
Speaker 1: he's been one of their most explosive players. Offense is

1811
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: running through him, and they have seven plays that have

1812
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: gone for more than twenty yards this year. He is

1813
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 1: responsible for three of those. When you look at what

1814
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 1: he did in this game, and it gets overshadowed because

1815
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 1: of the fumbles, rightfully so. But he converts two third

1816
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:57,799
Speaker 1: and longs in that game, two third and ten pluses.

1817
01:24:58,080 --> 01:24:59,600
Speaker 1: There was another I think it was a third and

1818
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 1: thirteen ten or third and twelve on that drive in

1819
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 1: the second half where they're backed up where he gets

1820
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: all but one, makes a defender miss, gets all but

1821
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: one yard, and then he converts the fourth down for

1822
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: them after that was the one all the way back

1823
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: and should have been blown up. He makes a guy

1824
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 1: clean miss in the open field. Yep, Traveon Henderson is

1825
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 1: not doing that right now, Gibbs, He's doing it a

1826
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 1: little bit. I actually think he's been sneaky. Okay, but

1827
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: he fumbled and he also kind of has a fumble history.

1828
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 1: So you can't. You cannot outright ben Tremando Stevenson. You

1829
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 1: cannot not play him because the offense unless Travon Henderson

1830
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: in one week takes that jump, the offense is going

1831
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 1: to become stagnant. You're gonna go back to having a

1832
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 1: lot of three and outs, which none of us want

1833
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 1: to see, right, or you have to go back to

1834
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 1: what you did against the Raiders and throw the ball

1835
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:47,639
Speaker 1: fifty times, which we know doesn't work.

1836
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 2: It's an extremely difficult spot.

1837
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: So I think you have to pick your spots where

1838
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: you know he's not going to be targeted as much.

1839
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Things like that. The other thing to know with him,

1840
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna get a lot of a lot of

1841
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,600
Speaker 1: yards after contact this week because the Panthers are not

1842
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: gonna be in a rush to bring him down. They're

1843
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 1: gonna stand them up and get the second and third

1844
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:14,560
Speaker 1: guy in and punch at the ball. So I I

1845
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: know it sounds crazy like and I'm sure people are

1846
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: annoyed hearing this, Like you got to watch them from

1847
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:21,720
Speaker 1: you to see all those fumbles last year, and then

1848
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 1: he fumbles two times in this game and it's costly,

1849
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:25,600
Speaker 1: and I get people might be frustrated with it.

1850
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 2: His fumble on the goal line, to me, was the

1851
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 2: biggest player.

1852
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: That's that's it, And it's an an excuse me. It's

1853
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:32,519
Speaker 1: not like somebody on the defense made this unbelievablelay to

1854
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: knock it out. The offense when he's not on the

1855
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:42,599
Speaker 1: field grinds to a halt and is punting better than fumbling, Yes,

1856
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: but you can't just have no offense and go back

1857
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 1: to trying to win all these games ten to seven,

1858
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:49,560
Speaker 1: you can't do it.

1859
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 2: So I think it's an incredibly hard position between to

1860
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 2: be in right because and Josh, they're trying to preach accountability,

1861
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 2: they're trying to build a program, the trying trying to

1862
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 2: put guys on the field that play winning football. But

1863
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 2: at the same time, Uh, this offense right now is

1864
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,559
Speaker 2: built through Hunter Henry and Ormandre Stevenson. They are their

1865
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 2: two best skill players and they have built the whole

1866
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 2: thing around those two guys. And you see games from

1867
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 2: Remandre like in Miami where he was maybe the best

1868
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 2: player on the field in that game for the Patriots offense.

1869
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:30,839
Speaker 2: And so if you take him out of the equation

1870
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: and you really don't have great backups to go to

1871
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 2: right now great options because Henderson is.

1872
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: The guy can trust right right, Yeah, for different reasons,

1873
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 1: because people we can't trust Evenson. Look, here's the thing

1874
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 1: I think some people heard Mike Rabel say after the game,

1875
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:53,760
Speaker 1: like we're gonna need him talking about Andree, that's they

1876
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: are going to need him, Like he's not wrong, not

1877
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 1: cutting him. Like, here's the thing. Both both are true.

1878
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 1: The Patriots need Rmonderie Stevenson on the field to be

1879
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: the best version of what they can be offensively, and

1880
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:08,360
Speaker 1: the Patriots cannot afford to put Rimondra Stevenson on the

1881
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 1: field if he's gonna fumble once a game, which he

1882
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: was doing for good Chunk last year, he's doing right now.

1883
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: So how do you square those two?

1884
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:14,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1885
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: It's a rock and heart, but that's that's just where

1886
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:19,599
Speaker 1: you're at, right It's not always going to be easy

1887
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: in the end. Welcome to the National Football League.

1888
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:23,760
Speaker 2: Right, this is Enables as the head coach, and we

1889
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:26,360
Speaker 2: talk about the team on the podcast because this is

1890
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,640
Speaker 2: this is an incredibly different difficult spot because of all

1891
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 2: the things that we're both saying.

1892
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:32,320
Speaker 1: Can I give you what I think the answer is?

1893
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 1: And this is gonna sound a little simplistic, this is

1894
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: really what I think it is. Yes, you got to

1895
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:38,560
Speaker 1: split it a third, a third, a third, and just

1896
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: try to put guys in situations where they're going to succeed.

1897
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: Get Trevon Henderson to the outside, get him involved in

1898
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 1: the passing game, but not pass blocking. Get Stevenson going

1899
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 1: between the tackles. Don't run him too much consecutively because

1900
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: I think that that's where the fumbles happen. For him

1901
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 1: is when he is on the field and he's carrying

1902
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 1: a ball five six, seven, eight plays in a row.

1903
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: You know, Gibson's pretty well rounded. I think you just

1904
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 1: mix him in where where you need.

1905
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 6: But like.

1906
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: A third, a third, a third, and whoever kind of

1907
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 1: comes out of that looking the best. You start to

1908
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: skew the touches and the carries and the snaps more

1909
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,560
Speaker 1: towards that guy. That's really kind of caveman pounding it,

1910
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, using a rock as a hammer. I don't

1911
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:22,000
Speaker 1: know you got a better answer. What does the math

1912
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: tell you? Evan? Which running back does the math tell

1913
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:24,679
Speaker 1: you to play?

1914
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:25,560
Speaker 2: If it was me?

1915
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: This is just no, that's the only question. I'm curious.

1916
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:30,280
Speaker 1: What's n tell you to play?

1917
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 2: I like in terms of what like yards after you know,

1918
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 2: you know how work better than me. But we're not

1919
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 2: like you don't like not just you're not just placing

1920
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,240
Speaker 2: like a value on a player like E.

1921
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 1: P A. D v O A.

1922
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 2: I mean, Remander is the best player out of the group.

1923
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 1: Who do they have the highest you know, Remondre, I'm

1924
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:51,759
Speaker 1: telling you, Okay, so like we do this in basketball

1925
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 1: all the time, right, It's what is this stupid stat

1926
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: you guys use in basketball when this player is on

1927
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 1: the court, the true plus minus or something whatever, pie

1928
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 1: player for sure, right, Yeah, Like, who's so Remondre? The

1929
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:05,760
Speaker 1: numbers tell you they're at their best when Remondres on

1930
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 1: the field, even with the fumbles.

1931
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 2: And also, I would you know, just adding to all

1932
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 2: the other things that we've said about what makes for

1933
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 2: Andre good outside the fumbles, Uh, he's their best pass

1934
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 2: blocker too well.

1935
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 1: And here's the thing about that, he's by far their

1936
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: best pass and people were asking why he was on

1937
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: the field of times late in this pass game past blocking.

1938
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 1: You can't fumble when you're pass blocked.

1939
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 2: No, he was literally on the field for pasting. The

1940
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:30,599
Speaker 2: only is the only thing he did when they put

1941
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 2: him back on the field.

1942
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 1: Which in that sense you can still use him, and

1943
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 1: you don't if he fumbles about past blocking something so wrong.

1944
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,720
Speaker 2: I think. And there's two different sort of sides of

1945
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:41,640
Speaker 2: this and that, and that's what makes us such a

1946
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 2: difficult spot for Mike was able to be in. The

1947
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:52,040
Speaker 2: first thing is preaching culture accountability. Don't do the stuff

1948
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 2: that gets to beat like all of like the non

1949
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 2: negotiables for him Remandre. But you know, violated in this game.

1950
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 2: But let me if yeah. The other side of it, though,

1951
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 2: is that in the short term they're best. They're at

1952
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 2: their best with him on the field. So what's more important,

1953
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:12,480
Speaker 2: like the long term vision of the program or Remandre

1954
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:14,879
Speaker 2: winning them a game on Sunday against Carolina.

1955
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:16,800
Speaker 1: It's the long term. If the other backs are doing

1956
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 1: stuff that gets you beat too, getting blown up in

1957
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:22,679
Speaker 1: pass protection gets to beat Gibson, fumbled like Gibson's fumble

1958
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 1: gets you beat again. Some of this is not necessarily

1959
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 1: in defense of Hermandre Stevenson. It's simply you think you

1960
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:31,720
Speaker 1: have to acknowledge.

1961
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,120
Speaker 2: I think you have to sit him against Carolina.

1962
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 1: I do not playing, Yes, I just worry about the

1963
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:38,599
Speaker 1: offense grinding.

1964
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 2: If you can't beat the Carolina Panthers at home without

1965
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 2: Rimondre Stevenson, I think this isn't Buffalo. If this was Buffalo,

1966
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 2: just beat.

1967
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:49,680
Speaker 1: The Falcons, I would argue, if anything, it's the opposite. Hey,

1968
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: like Buffalo, we need everything we can get and we're,

1969
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, up against it anyway, and we need to

1970
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: take some chances. And Rimondre gives us the chance for

1971
01:31:57,479 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 1: explosive plaze with.

1972
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 2: The Carolina teams awful. The thirty to nothings score against

1973
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: the Falcons is super deceised. Just they the Falcons imploded,

1974
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 2: like they fired their wide receivers. Coach Zach Robinson's on

1975
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:13,759
Speaker 2: the hot seat, like your boy Pennix was throwing freaking

1976
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,879
Speaker 2: spraying the ball all over the yard like pick sixes,

1977
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:21,840
Speaker 2: Like that was that was it? Eosion? Don't play m Andre, Yes,

1978
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 2: I think you.

1979
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:26,599
Speaker 1: Gibson's lead back, and I mean, then do people look

1980
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: at Gibson and be like, why is he allowed a fumble?

1981
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: That guy isn't or Okay, I'm allowed to fumble once

1982
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 1: without account I know Gibson has a little second fumble.

1983
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: I can't.

1984
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:34,920
Speaker 2: I know that Gibson has a little bit of a

1985
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 2: history from Washington. But it's not nine fumbles in your eye.

1986
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 1: I guess, but it's it's but the message, like if

1987
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: we're just gonna talk about the message of it, he fumbled,

1988
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 1: and you know, you look at Okay, so I can

1989
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 1: fumble once and not be held accountable, but I can't

1990
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:48,679
Speaker 1: fumble twice.

1991
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 2: And maybe that's the message.

1992
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 1: Right. You have to at some point, though obviously you

1993
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 1: have to draw a line. Do you have to asses

1994
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 1: do you dress him or is he healthy scratching apples?

1995
01:32:57,479 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, So that you probably

1996
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 2: have to unless you want to, like call up Terrell

1997
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 2: Jennings as the third running They probably have so you

1998
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,439
Speaker 2: probably have to dress him as a third running back.

1999
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 2: But then you also create the distraction of him standing

2000
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 2: on the sideline and not playing. Like it's obviously very

2001
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 2: very different circumstances, but it's not Butler.

2002
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:17,360
Speaker 1: So right, Like you don't want to do that, But

2003
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 1: I think, first of all, I think whether he dresses

2004
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 1: or not, Terrell Jennings, somebody there should be another backup.

2005
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:25,640
Speaker 2: You think they should. They're gonna have to sign or

2006
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 2: elevate a third running back.

2007
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,679
Speaker 1: Do you do? You know you said it's the Caroline

2008
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: Panthers at home.

2009
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 2: They're bad.

2010
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 1: You should beat them. What if it's close late and

2011
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:36,080
Speaker 1: Henderson's running for two yards of carry and Gibson fumbles again?

2012
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 2: Like this is not about any of that. But it's

2013
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 2: not about kidding. No, it can't be, Alex. You can't

2014
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 2: look at it like that, Like this is not the

2015
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:46,519
Speaker 2: Carolina about the Carolina Panthers in week four, This is

2016
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 2: not what it's about. It's about they have non negotiables

2017
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:53,639
Speaker 2: up in the addit team auditorium, and protecting the football

2018
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 2: is on the list, and he keeps putting the ball

2019
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:56,719
Speaker 2: on the ground.

2020
01:33:57,360 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 1: Like, but if you're if you're Mike Vrabel and you

2021
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 1: lose the game and the offense is stagnant and Steveson

2022
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 1: could have it, I didn't look at the team and

2023
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:05,799
Speaker 1: say I did what's best for the team.

2024
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 2: Because if you can't find a way to move the

2025
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 2: ball against this Panthers defense without him, then you're porked anyways.

2026
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 2: And honestly, like, I don't think it's gonna come to that,

2027
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 2: Like I really don't, all right, So I I just.

2028
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 1: That's what I would do. Probably, do you think he

2029
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 1: will play? Yes, I think he's gonna play a little bit.

2030
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a reduced role. I think

2031
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: it's mostly gonna be pass blocking. But I think he's

2032
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 1: gonna play.

2033
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 2: I agree, I think he'll play a little bit. And

2034
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 2: that and if it's like if he plays like as

2035
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 2: the third running back and it's pass blocking and things

2036
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 2: like that to me is essentially benching.

2037
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: So that's what I would do. Yeah, Like that, that

2038
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: to me is we're gonna pa you know you're gonna

2039
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 1: play to pass block, you might get a couple of carries,

2040
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 1: like if a guy needs a spell, somebody gets hurt,

2041
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 1: you use him as a third running back like that,

2042
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:49,920
Speaker 1: I would demote him. I wouldn't outright bench him and

2043
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: get some of that is just because maybe that's a

2044
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: better way to it. I think you need him to

2045
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 1: do certain things that the other guys. You need him

2046
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 1: in a pass block, the other guys aren't gonna do

2047
01:34:57,840 --> 01:34:58,679
Speaker 1: that at the same level.

2048
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 2: I think demoting him and so a benching him is

2049
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 2: probably a better way to put it. And I think

2050
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 2: the goal is long term would obviously be to get

2051
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 2: him back to being the lead guy, because he is

2052
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:10,720
Speaker 2: your best running back. But I will strongly say though,

2053
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:12,680
Speaker 2: like all you know, I'm not saying it's a lot

2054
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 2: of people, but like people saying that he should be

2055
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:18,600
Speaker 2: cut or all like, he's not that's this' relax. But

2056
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 2: I do think that there needs to be a level

2057
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:21,720
Speaker 2: of accountability.

2058
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 1: I do think you need to because they we both

2059
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 1: agree they would they do need him.

2060
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 2: Yes, in the season, he might be their best offensive

2061
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:32,760
Speaker 2: player outside of Drake, like he might be there at

2062
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:35,680
Speaker 2: least their best offensive skill player. And I don't think

2063
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 2: that that honestly, I will say that, and I don't

2064
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:42,080
Speaker 2: think it's necessarily that close. Like him at his best

2065
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:44,439
Speaker 2: is their best offensive skill player.

2066
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 1: Him saying after the game because he was asked about

2067
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,479
Speaker 1: the comment, you know, Vrabel saying we're gonna need him,

2068
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: and he was asked about that, and he's, I think

2069
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,680
Speaker 1: for batim, if I can't hold on the ball, they

2070
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 1: don't need me. Like he's not wrong, he's not wrong,

2071
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 1: but men like you can't lose him mentally.

2072
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, either.

2073
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 1: So whatever you're gonna do is gonna impact like cause

2074
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 1: that's when the fumbles will read like there's no coming

2075
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:10,800
Speaker 1: back from that in any job, whatever you're in. Like

2076
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 1: we've all gotten discouraged. I'm sure anybody listening you get

2077
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: discouraged in your job and you let it mentally weigh

2078
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 1: on you. That's a lot like I'll write something, I

2079
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:21,640
Speaker 1: make a typo, I go and I change it, I

2080
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 1: forget about it. But if it's like a bad one

2081
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:25,840
Speaker 1: or I get called out in a way I don't

2082
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 1: like and like, then it becomes a mental thing and

2083
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 1: it lags, and then it starts impacting me with other stuff,

2084
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 1: Like if you know you need him, you do have

2085
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 1: to be and this is to get back to the

2086
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 1: leader of men thing. Yes, you can't play him. You can't.

2087
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 1: You can't play him as much as you have and

2088
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 1: you can't ignore it. You can't create a situation either

2089
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: though where he's just so lost mentally that that you

2090
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:49,840
Speaker 1: can't fix it because the goal still needs to be

2091
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: long term to fix it. And Okay, so if it

2092
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:54,799
Speaker 1: becomes a mental block, then there goes.

2093
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:58,680
Speaker 2: That what what are you doing with pop M?

2094
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:01,600
Speaker 1: So you guys know, I've been as big of a

2095
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 1: defender Popped Doug as anybody. It's probably time to give

2096
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 1: somebody else some looks. I don't think the snap counts

2097
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: going to zero. And the thing for me is him

2098
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: and Drake just aren't on the same page and I

2099
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: kind of hope that they get there with more and

2100
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:17,599
Speaker 1: more reps. And it's just not happening. We talked about

2101
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:21,719
Speaker 1: this last week. It's it's Kyle Williams. I've been getting

2102
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,280
Speaker 1: asked about Fton Chisholm, and there's going to be a

2103
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: time for Afton Chislm. I know I keep coming on

2104
01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:28,360
Speaker 1: here every week and saying be patient with the Fton

2105
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 1: Chislm there will be a time for Afton chism. This

2106
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: is not it because, like you talked about Trey Von Henderson,

2107
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 1: there's a straight line speed element with Pop Douglas that

2108
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:39,160
Speaker 1: when you take him off the field, the offense is

2109
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:42,560
Speaker 1: slow and Fton chislm is not replicating that.

2110
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:42,680
Speaker 2: Now.

2111
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 1: I wish they'd taken more advantage of that and run

2112
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:45,400
Speaker 1: Pop more vertically.

2113
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:46,519
Speaker 2: I think it.

2114
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 1: And also like just the element of Kyle Williams a

2115
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: third round pick. You got to get this guy going.

2116
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:52,479
Speaker 1: You cannot burn another top one underd pick on a

2117
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: receiver doesn't play.

2118
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 2: Is a solution. And I think that this solution in

2119
01:37:57,080 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 2: theory sounds great but at the same time have some reservations.

2120
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 2: But really the solution in three receiver sets, I think

2121
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 2: for most people is Divis goes to the slot, Booty

2122
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 2: goes to the Z, and Kyle Williams comes on the field.

2123
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 1: Let's so Pop Douglas has been the fourth receiver because

2124
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 1: it's been yeah, Blin's dig.

2125
01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 2: But not an eleven Like it's because they're playing so

2126
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 2: much too tight end.

2127
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm not I'm not playing Kyle Williams and heavy.

2128
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: Let's just when you're in heavy you don't need to

2129
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 1: change anything. Pop wasn't playing that.

2130
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 2: That's different though, I mean, yeah, but maybe that is

2131
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 2: is it?

2132
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:41,559
Speaker 1: This might surprise you. And depending on how exactly want

2133
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,719
Speaker 1: to measure this, there's some arguments' Kahon booty, but Stefan

2134
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 1: Diggs has been their most productive wide receiver. Yeah, no

2135
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:49,760
Speaker 1: wide receiver on the team's caught more. I think only

2136
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,240
Speaker 1: Hunter Henry's caught more passes and yards. He's second of Booty.

2137
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: So do you want to tinker with him right now?

2138
01:38:56,360 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 1: Or do you want to build on what he's doing

2139
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,160
Speaker 1: and run Kyle Williams in the slot.

2140
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 2: I just don't think Kyle Williams is the slot. So

2141
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:06,280
Speaker 2: not a pure slot like.

2142
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 1: Kyle, but you can you he can do the stuff

2143
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:09,800
Speaker 1: that Pop Douglas was doing.

2144
01:39:11,479 --> 01:39:14,640
Speaker 2: He's more to me, he's more vertical than he is horizontal.

2145
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 1: He should be using that role more vertically.

2146
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:20,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. I I look at Diggs and I

2147
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 2: look at the way that he played in Houston this

2148
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:25,400
Speaker 2: past year, and it's a lot of the same. The

2149
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 2: catches that he is making are you know, slants in cuts,

2150
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,360
Speaker 2: whips like things like that. Like it is all the

2151
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 2: slot routes, right like it's all the same kind of thing.

2152
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:35,320
Speaker 6: I just.

2153
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing with Pop and that role

2154
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 2: in general, and really you know that slot receiver role

2155
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 2: that I wrote about at the end of training camp

2156
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 2: a lot so much of it is having it between

2157
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 2: the years. Like it's so it's a thinking position. It's

2158
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:56,479
Speaker 2: the reads. It's knowing where the holes are in coverage.

2159
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 2: It's knowing when it's man versus zone. It's knowing your

2160
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 2: route depths and like being precise with your routes in

2161
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:06,800
Speaker 2: that respect, it's knowing where the sticks are right Like

2162
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 2: these are all like the little things that are adding

2163
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 2: up for Pop Douglas, and so they have to get

2164
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 2: if it's not going to be him, then they have

2165
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:19,799
Speaker 2: to get a more heady, high IQ player in that position.

2166
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that Pop doesn't have a role. It

2167
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 2: just means that maybe that's not his strong suit. And

2168
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:28,400
Speaker 2: as much as I agree with you that it slows

2169
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 2: them down in terms of team speed on the field,

2170
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:35,640
Speaker 2: with Chisholm, I think Chishm is gonna have that. I

2171
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:38,120
Speaker 2: think he's gonna have the game instincts and the feel

2172
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 2: and the awareness. Now he might not have the burst

2173
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,080
Speaker 2: and the speed and the explosiveness that Pob Douglas has.

2174
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:47,479
Speaker 2: But I hate to say it because I don't know

2175
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:50,400
Speaker 2: for a fact. Yeah, but my gut tells me that

2176
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:54,439
Speaker 2: if Eftin Chishom catches that fourth and one play, he's

2177
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 2: going shouldered down and he's charging up.

2178
01:40:57,280 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 1: If you don't think you can make this whole decision

2179
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:02,840
Speaker 1: in off of one play, like, I think you need

2180
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:05,480
Speaker 1: to look at the picture of the offense.

2181
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:08,640
Speaker 2: But that that play is a microcosm of all of this.

2182
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 1: But that slot guy simply being able to fall forward

2183
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: and get one more yards to two.

2184
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:17,439
Speaker 2: But it's not just it's also occupying the flat on

2185
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 2: the booty touchdown. It's also like when they run that

2186
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:24,080
Speaker 2: swing concept out of the spinner, Like he keeps drifting

2187
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:27,000
Speaker 2: up the field and he makes as Drake May is throwing,

2188
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:29,640
Speaker 2: the throw is becoming further and further away from the

2189
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 2: Niger back Like it's route depth, it's precision. It's all

2190
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 2: these little details that you can run a four to

2191
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,880
Speaker 2: four and be fast and be explosive and be jitterbuggy

2192
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 2: and all this great stuff. But if you aren't in

2193
01:41:41,040 --> 01:41:44,280
Speaker 2: the right places at the right time, then what what

2194
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 2: good is any of that?

2195
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:47,479
Speaker 1: Then when's Kyt Williams gonna play like ever?

2196
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:48,759
Speaker 2: He's gonna play on the outside.

2197
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:52,679
Speaker 1: You're making the case for Chisholm right now, right, I'm.

2198
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,320
Speaker 2: Making a case for somebody else. I think Diggs could

2199
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:57,600
Speaker 2: probably do this. These all these little things I.

2200
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 1: Would put inside that. I just think if you take

2201
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas off the field right, get slow you do.

2202
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 1: But so your point was how changing the receiver impacts

2203
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 1: the way the offense operates. Yeah, I'm looking at it

2204
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 1: more as what is the change in personnel going to

2205
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 1: do to the way the defense defends you? And I

2206
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:18,160
Speaker 1: think when you have that slower group out there, those

2207
01:42:18,160 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: safeties are going to come up. Teams are going to

2208
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:23,680
Speaker 1: be more inclined to play bass, even against eleven, and

2209
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 1: it's just going to make it harder for you to

2210
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: do a lot of the other stuff you want to do.

2211
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:29,040
Speaker 1: So that's why I think it asked me Kyle Williams.

2212
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:33,640
Speaker 1: But Kyle Williams on slot, wherever, wherever. That's why think

2213
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:35,240
Speaker 1: Kyle Williams is the next guy you go to.

2214
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:38,240
Speaker 2: So what I would do, Yeah, because Hollins is going

2215
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 2: to play in his role right because of the blocking

2216
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 2: which has been hit or missed by the way, but

2217
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:45,080
Speaker 2: he's going to play so better than what you're gonna

2218
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:47,360
Speaker 2: get the most these So in eleven, like when we're

2219
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 2: talking about obvious pass, Yeah, I think it's Booty Diggs

2220
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 2: and Kyle Williams, like I really do now ftin Chisholm,

2221
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 2: I think should probably get some of those pure like

2222
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,840
Speaker 2: why are f slot reps like the Danny ammondol slot reps.

2223
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 2: I think that that's still kind of a role could

2224
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:07,480
Speaker 2: exist for Chisholm, but it's Kyle Williams on the outside

2225
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 2: with with Booty and it's Digs in the slot, Like

2226
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 2: I think that's where you have to go, And I

2227
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:16,519
Speaker 2: think you have to hope that Digs, what ten year

2228
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:20,759
Speaker 2: veteran at this point has that extra headiness, that extra

2229
01:43:20,880 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 2: field awareness, that extra game sense that Pop just isn't

2230
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:30,200
Speaker 2: showing right now, and Pop, I think to me, it

2231
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:32,720
Speaker 2: goes into a role. It was similar to what we

2232
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 2: were just talking about with Trevon Henderson, where it's package

2233
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:40,759
Speaker 2: plays of motions and window dressing type things and swings

2234
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 2: into the flats and you know, maybe some vertical routes,

2235
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:49,559
Speaker 2: but it's not the Danny Amndola. Julian Edelman Wes Welker

2236
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 2: Gamut of slot routes that I just don't think that

2237
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 2: he's fully detail oriented enough to be to thrive in

2238
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:02,560
Speaker 2: that type of role. And I would also, just like,

2239
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:07,719
Speaker 2: you know, to end it this point, there is something

2240
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,639
Speaker 2: there to the fact that he's only five foot seven

2241
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 2: and like three quarters or whatever it is, like his

2242
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 2: height and his lack of catch radius. I don't know

2243
01:44:17,479 --> 01:44:19,719
Speaker 2: how great of a fit that is with the quarterback.

2244
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:21,400
Speaker 2: And I've been saying this for a while now. This

2245
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,200
Speaker 2: is not a new take of mine, and like it

2246
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 2: just kind of seems to me like it's hard. It's

2247
01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:31,639
Speaker 2: a hard target to hit when Pop is running across

2248
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 2: the field at full speed on a crossing route and

2249
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,760
Speaker 2: he's running in between spaces in the zone and Drake

2250
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:39,960
Speaker 2: May has got to throw it to like the second

2251
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:42,799
Speaker 2: zone window like on the cross or that he airmiled

2252
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:46,719
Speaker 2: that almost went intercepted, and he's got a five foot

2253
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:49,519
Speaker 2: eight slot receiver that he's trying to hit within in

2254
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 2: between two zone defenders. Like, it's just not a really

2255
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:56,600
Speaker 2: big target, especially when he's moving across the field. So

2256
01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,280
Speaker 2: I think that's an element of this as well. But

2257
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 2: at some point you know, just like they did on

2258
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,080
Speaker 2: defense with Alex Austen and Jack Gibbons, like, there has

2259
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 2: to be some consequences for the fact that these guys

2260
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 2: aren't performing and you have to try some different things.

2261
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 2: And I do think because they have Kyle Williams kind

2262
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:15,360
Speaker 2: of waiting in the in the wings and eftin Chishlm,

2263
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:18,360
Speaker 2: this is a little bit different to me than running back,

2264
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 2: because I do think they kind of have some options. Yeah,

2265
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:25,680
Speaker 2: they here, all right. We talked a lot today. I'm

2266
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 2: sorry that we didn't get to all the emails and

2267
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 2: stuff like that. We do have some calls and if

2268
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:32,120
Speaker 2: you guys are still waiting, we'll take them now. In

2269
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 2: the last ten minutes. I apologize. There was a lot

2270
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 2: to unpack today and we didn't get to as many

2271
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:39,560
Speaker 2: of you guys as we wanted to. But Patty is

2272
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 2: an agua. What's up, Patty?

2273
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:43,920
Speaker 7: What's up? Guys can hear me?

2274
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:48,719
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, thanks for holding Patty, appreciate it, no problem.

2275
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:50,840
Speaker 7: I did want to get into a comp with Drake,

2276
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,000
Speaker 7: but I'll skip that for next week. But I got

2277
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:54,640
Speaker 7: to hold on to it that Alex, You're kind of

2278
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:57,600
Speaker 7: spot on when it comes to just being patient with

2279
01:45:57,720 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 7: quarterbacks and waiting to see what happens at the same

2280
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:03,320
Speaker 7: and half of their second season. But the guy I

2281
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 7: want the question I wanted to ask you guys, was

2282
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:09,320
Speaker 7: I attended two practices this summer. I attended the first

2283
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:14,440
Speaker 7: Saturday practice and the joint practice against the against Commanders.

2284
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:16,720
Speaker 7: And I used to think it was funny you guys

2285
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,080
Speaker 7: would always say, did we get fooled by Taekwon? You

2286
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:22,120
Speaker 7: know when he was on this team, And I'm guessing,

2287
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 7: you know, did we all kind of get fooled by Pop?

2288
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:29,479
Speaker 7: Because to me, like those two practices I went to,

2289
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 7: he looked like the best skill player on the team.

2290
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:33,080
Speaker 7: And I'll take the answer out there, guys.

2291
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Patty, it's a really good question, and it's something

2292
01:46:35,479 --> 01:46:37,840
Speaker 2: that I've thought about a little bit with Pop and

2293
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:40,599
Speaker 2: with Travon Henderson, Like these are two guys that are

2294
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:43,600
Speaker 2: speed guys that when the contact was toned down a

2295
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:45,840
Speaker 2: little bit compared to what it is in a live

2296
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:49,040
Speaker 2: game setting. They both had great summers, both pop In

2297
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,600
Speaker 2: and Henderson. And the fact that we've gotten into the

2298
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 2: games and that hasn't translated to the regular season is

2299
01:46:56,479 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 2: kind of putting me in a little bit of a

2300
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 2: mental pretzel. I don't really especially with pot because it's

2301
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:05,480
Speaker 2: like not a rookie, right, it's a bizarre.

2302
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:09,680
Speaker 1: Like there's just maybe we overrated the kind of fit

2303
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:11,160
Speaker 1: he's going to be in this offense. And your point,

2304
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 1: they're seeing a lot of zone. He's not a guy

2305
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 1: that has a ton of success against zone. Yeah, maybe

2306
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:17,120
Speaker 1: didn't get the man coverage that they wanted, like pop

2307
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 1: somewhere I could see going somewhere else having a ton

2308
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: of success. Yeah, and you see obviously what Taekwon Thornton's doing.

2309
01:47:22,040 --> 01:47:23,680
Speaker 1: So I don't think we got fooled. I just think

2310
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 1: maybe we didn't look at the full big picture. We

2311
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:29,160
Speaker 1: didn't see the picture as big as it maybe ultimately was.

2312
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 2: So good for Taekwon. Happy for my guy, yep, good

2313
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,800
Speaker 2: for him. Now that being said, it's still only nine

2314
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:38,800
Speaker 2: catches for one hundred and seventy one yards. He's hit

2315
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:41,320
Speaker 2: like three or four really big plays down the field.

2316
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:42,439
Speaker 2: He's averaging nineteen yards.

2317
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:44,559
Speaker 1: That's what thought he was going to be. Yeah, hever

2318
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:45,639
Speaker 1: supposed to be a volume guy.

2319
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 2: He's doing exactly. He is carving out a role for

2320
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:51,760
Speaker 2: himself in the league, and I'm happy for him. We

2321
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,400
Speaker 2: tried to do Taekwon multiple times and it just didn't

2322
01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:57,800
Speaker 2: happen for him here. But some of the things that

2323
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 2: I'm seeing for Taekwon is it's really very similar, you know,

2324
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 2: like he could carve out a role as like and

2325
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 2: Nelson agalor Philip Dorsett type in the league and probably

2326
01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:10,840
Speaker 2: have a pretty good career doing that. So good for him.

2327
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:18,559
Speaker 2: Jude is in mass I assume what's up, Jude, Hey,

2328
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 2: how's it gone good?

2329
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:24,120
Speaker 3: I wanted to say that first, I definitely agree with

2330
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 3: you Evan where I think that having Kyle on the

2331
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:29,400
Speaker 3: field more is just the best way to go. With

2332
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:33,800
Speaker 3: Kyle and Stefon Diggs in the slot and Booty, I

2333
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:37,320
Speaker 3: think that we need that juice, whether whether or not

2334
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:39,600
Speaker 3: it's Pop or him. So I definitely agree with that.

2335
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:42,639
Speaker 3: But my question was, what are you guys thinking about

2336
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:45,759
Speaker 3: the production in the run game? The EPA for plays

2337
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,160
Speaker 3: and necessarily called that great and like our numbers kind

2338
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:49,760
Speaker 3: of like sitting around like the twenties. How are you

2339
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:50,360
Speaker 3: feeling about it?

2340
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Jude, it's a good question. It's something that

2341
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:56,679
Speaker 2: has come up a little bit over the last couple

2342
01:48:56,720 --> 01:48:59,280
Speaker 2: of days, is that they haven't traditionally been able to

2343
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:02,520
Speaker 2: run the ball very well. Like all of their explosive

2344
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 2: runs really have come from Drake, and like he's I

2345
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 2: think they're leading rusher right now if I'm not mistaken.

2346
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:12,560
Speaker 2: So it's a good question they haven't been able to

2347
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 2: run the ball traditionary very well. But I will say,

2348
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, class half full, a lot of the run

2349
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 2: actions that they are doing are setting up a lot

2350
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:24,840
Speaker 2: of really good play action opportunities, and maybe it's worth

2351
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:28,040
Speaker 2: it to stick with the run game even if it's

2352
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 2: not working very well. And so I'm thinking maybe that

2353
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:37,639
Speaker 2: if they keep on doing this with the play action passing,

2354
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:40,519
Speaker 2: that it will empty the box a little bit more

2355
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:42,920
Speaker 2: and teams won't be as focused on the run. I

2356
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,559
Speaker 2: think what they're getting right now from a run game

2357
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:48,800
Speaker 2: perspective is they're getting a lot of gap penetration and

2358
01:49:48,880 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 2: stunting from the defensive lines that they're facing. So they're

2359
01:49:52,439 --> 01:49:55,120
Speaker 2: getting a lot of post snap movement and they're stunting

2360
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:58,640
Speaker 2: and run stunting and penetrating gaps and things like that.

2361
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:01,599
Speaker 2: And so you'll only really do that like if you're

2362
01:50:01,720 --> 01:50:04,760
Speaker 2: overplaying the run, like if that's like a game plan

2363
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:08,280
Speaker 2: focused thing, because like, we can't let this team run

2364
01:50:08,320 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 2: the ball on us. So I do think that there's

2365
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:14,280
Speaker 2: an element of On Tuesday, when teams are game planning

2366
01:50:14,360 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 2: the Patriots offense, I think one of the first things,

2367
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 2: if not the first thing on the top of the list,

2368
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 2: is let's make them one dimensional and turn them into

2369
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:24,800
Speaker 2: a drop back pass team, kind of like what the

2370
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:26,680
Speaker 2: Raiders were able to do to them a little bit

2371
01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 2: in Week one. So I wonder how much of that

2372
01:50:29,200 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 2: is too, But yeah, they got to run the ball

2373
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:34,640
Speaker 2: better traditionally without Drake being as much involved. Mark is

2374
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 2: in Connecticut. What's up Mark?

2375
01:50:37,120 --> 01:50:39,960
Speaker 8: Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Just a quick

2376
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 8: couple of things. I was on the postgame show with

2377
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 8: Paul and Mike, and I believe that those guys have

2378
01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 8: said something to the effect that Kevin fall Back early

2379
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 8: in his career fumbled the ball quite quite a lot

2380
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:56,680
Speaker 8: and they were able to somehow work with somebody on

2381
01:50:57,200 --> 01:50:59,360
Speaker 8: that and get that out of him. And I'm wondering

2382
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:00,880
Speaker 8: if that's but he might be able to, you know,

2383
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,800
Speaker 8: Kevin Folk might be able to help Remandre out with that.

2384
01:51:04,920 --> 01:51:06,800
Speaker 8: And then the other couple of things is, yeah, we

2385
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 8: need to get fon Chisholm, Danny Amidola two point zero

2386
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:09,960
Speaker 8: on the field.

2387
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:10,639
Speaker 2: It's time.

2388
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,960
Speaker 8: I'm the biggest advocate for Pop. I wear his jersey every.

2389
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:14,519
Speaker 9: Time of the game.

2390
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:17,320
Speaker 8: But you know, maybe it's just not good with Drake,

2391
01:51:17,479 --> 01:51:19,200
Speaker 8: you know, because of his size and everything. But I

2392
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:21,680
Speaker 8: think Chisholm just has a little more twitch, little more

2393
01:51:21,840 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 8: juice in that. And then the last thing is, I

2394
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:26,840
Speaker 8: don't know why we're going to Pop on a fourth

2395
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 8: and two. I want to see Digs on that, Like

2396
01:51:29,439 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 8: that should be Diggs going fourth and two. Gotta have

2397
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:34,400
Speaker 8: a kind of moment there. So appreciate you guys.

2398
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:36,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call. Mark. What was the first

2399
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,120
Speaker 2: thing he said is for a lot of Kevin Falk?

2400
01:51:39,360 --> 01:51:42,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so Kevin is he at LSU still Kevin Falk?

2401
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't remember where he was.

2402
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was coaching or like helping, advising or whatever

2403
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:47,479
Speaker 2: for a while.

2404
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:49,559
Speaker 1: But the one thing I was actually the New York

2405
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,280
Speaker 1: Giants running backs coach. Oh really in the league, dude,

2406
01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 1: he's there, Troy Brown's there, a bunch of those guys. Yeah,

2407
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 1: so he's probably helping Romandre out.

2408
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:59,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fair The one thing I wanted to

2409
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:03,200
Speaker 2: talk about with with the fall point though, I remember

2410
01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:05,560
Speaker 2: Kevin Falk used to wear the elbow pads. Yeah, so

2411
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 2: I he wore the elbow pads. I believe that was

2412
01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:12,439
Speaker 2: part of fixing the fumbling issues. And I'm not saying

2413
01:52:12,479 --> 01:52:15,680
Speaker 2: that's gonna solve it for Remandra necessarily, but like he

2414
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 2: used to take the with the elbow pad and then

2415
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:20,960
Speaker 2: he would like wedge the ball the point of the

2416
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:24,759
Speaker 2: ball into his elbow pad, and that's like what allowed

2417
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:26,599
Speaker 2: him to like kind of hold and secure the ball

2418
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:28,880
Speaker 2: a little bit more. So I'm not saying that's the answer.

2419
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:30,519
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people also talk about like

2420
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 2: Tiki Barber fixed his fumbling issues by like holding it

2421
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:36,479
Speaker 2: up on his chest and tell yeah, which maybe like

2422
01:52:36,640 --> 01:52:39,080
Speaker 2: that's an answer. I don't know. I don't know if

2423
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:41,960
Speaker 2: like where he carries the football is necessarily a solution,

2424
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,439
Speaker 2: but maybe maybe it is. Sewn is in Vancouver.

2425
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:49,200
Speaker 9: What's up, Sean Shaanatova? This is you know, this is

2426
01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:51,519
Speaker 9: the week of the year where we reflected in our sins,

2427
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:54,160
Speaker 9: and for the Patriots, those sins are the.

2428
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:55,719
Speaker 7: To get to beat Alex.

2429
01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:57,120
Speaker 3: You're right, you can still.

2430
01:52:57,000 --> 01:52:59,240
Speaker 9: Win the game even if you do the crap that

2431
01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:02,760
Speaker 9: gets you beat, just can't do it five times like

2432
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:05,840
Speaker 9: the last time the Patriots had five turnovers in the

2433
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:07,960
Speaker 9: game was two thousand and eight against Steelers and lost

2434
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 9: thirty three to ten. That was a better Patriots team.

2435
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:13,080
Speaker 9: They finished eleven to five. The previous season was the

2436
01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:15,479
Speaker 9: only time a team went undefeated in a sixteen game

2437
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:19,200
Speaker 9: regular season, and that game wasn't even close. No, if

2438
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,800
Speaker 9: New England turned the ball over just four times, they

2439
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 9: still win. They had five crap plays that they get

2440
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 9: to beat and we're in the game with less than

2441
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 9: a minute left. The Pats also didn't take advantage of

2442
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:34,599
Speaker 9: bad play. Alex Austin penalty took away Milton Williams bumble recovery,

2443
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:37,960
Speaker 9: Blaine had an interception that gives them first and goal.

2444
01:53:38,040 --> 01:53:40,600
Speaker 9: The next play, Stevenson second bumble is recovering in the

2445
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:43,280
Speaker 9: end zone for a touchback. So you're not taking advantage

2446
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:45,639
Speaker 9: of what the Steelers have given you. And the Steelers

2447
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 9: were a bad team on Sunday. They didn't win the game.

2448
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:50,920
Speaker 9: New England lost it. If the Patriots turned the ball

2449
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:55,639
Speaker 9: over even once against you know one more time than.

2450
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:57,400
Speaker 7: The Bills do, they lose to the Bills.

2451
01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 9: Sunday's game shows that you can still when with the

2452
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:03,720
Speaker 9: craft that gets you beat if you play that much

2453
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:07,240
Speaker 9: better than your opponent, but you just can't keep doing it.

2454
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:08,280
Speaker 9: And then I'll leave you with that.

2455
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Sean. Yeah, I think we're in lockstep there.

2456
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,080
Speaker 2: All right, we have one minute to talk about the

2457
01:54:13,160 --> 01:54:17,400
Speaker 2: Carolina Panthers. All Right, we're gonna Christian can talk on Unfiltered.

2458
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:21,479
Speaker 2: What's your thirty second take on the Carolina Panthers.

2459
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:24,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I really hope Christian's alce is back. That's

2460
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 1: the big thing for me. I think it's it's Ted

2461
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 1: McMillan and Will Campbell. Right, let's see, that was the

2462
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,840
Speaker 1: big conversation a draft season. I feel like Panthers are

2463
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 1: kind of in a similar spot. And as to the Patriots,

2464
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: like Bryce Young had that good close to the year

2465
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:40,960
Speaker 1: last year, you're trying to see, like is he ultimately

2466
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 1: the guy? And then if you think he is, if

2467
01:54:43,040 --> 01:54:45,040
Speaker 1: he continues to play, well, okay, well the roster is

2468
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:48,360
Speaker 1: still not complete. But who around him are we keeping

2469
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:49,360
Speaker 1: as part of this rebuild?

2470
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:51,200
Speaker 2: So Ted's looked really good on film.

2471
01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:51,640
Speaker 1: He's been good.

2472
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been good.

2473
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: J Coker's good too.

2474
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:57,200
Speaker 2: A lot of it he's hurt. Coker ted a lot

2475
01:54:57,240 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 2: of it's translated. He's you know, his sigh, his catch radious,

2476
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 2: but also the yards after the catch and the fluidity.

2477
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 2: At six foot five, six foot four, he looks the part.

2478
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:08,200
Speaker 2: He looks like it's translated.

2479
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 3: Now.

2480
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:10,640
Speaker 2: With that being said, he's the only thing they have

2481
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:12,880
Speaker 2: in the passing game. He is a one man show

2482
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:15,960
Speaker 2: right now in Carolina in the passing game. So if

2483
01:55:16,040 --> 01:55:18,680
Speaker 2: you take him away, I don't really know what else

2484
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:22,040
Speaker 2: Bryce Young is going to in this game. Bryce Young,

2485
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:24,080
Speaker 2: My comp for him right now is righty to u

2486
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:25,680
Speaker 2: because he keeps throwing the ball in the middle of

2487
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 2: the field, and only the middle of the field. So

2488
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:30,560
Speaker 2: short throws middle of the field, take those things away

2489
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:35,120
Speaker 2: really quickly. On the Panthers defense, they kind of put

2490
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 2: Pennix in a blender a little bit last week. He

2491
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 2: wasn't seeing the field very well. They'd use a lot

2492
01:55:40,160 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 2: of disguise coverage and post snap rotation and things like that.

2493
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:45,880
Speaker 2: If Drake May can keep his wits about him in

2494
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:48,240
Speaker 2: this game, then there's gonna be a lot of opportunities

2495
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:52,080
Speaker 2: for him. But Pennix couldn't, you know, they really ever

2496
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:55,600
Speaker 2: ow their defensive coordinator really flustered him and confused him.

2497
01:55:56,160 --> 01:55:58,640
Speaker 2: So that's the key. You got to keep Drake May's

2498
01:55:58,680 --> 01:55:59,960
Speaker 2: wits about him. But I think there's going to be

2499
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:02,560
Speaker 2: the opportunities for them to move the ball if he

2500
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:08,240
Speaker 2: can you know, stay, you know, avoid the blender, as

2501
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:11,440
Speaker 2: Rabel likes to say. So that's your Panthers minute. Sorry

2502
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:13,400
Speaker 2: we didn't get the more of a Panthers preview for you,

2503
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,800
Speaker 2: but we will surely be talking about the Carolina Panthers

2504
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 2: in the game on Sunday on Patriots Unfiltered over the

2505
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:23,200
Speaker 2: next couple of days. So Unfiltered is four minutes away,

2506
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:26,480
Speaker 2: so don't go anywhere. Alex and I will be back

2507
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:29,840
Speaker 2: next week to talk about the Panthers, to talk about

2508
01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 2: the Buffalo Bills on Sunday Night football Big One in

2509
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:34,880
Speaker 2: Orchard Park for the Patriots in week five. We'll see

2510
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 2: you guys.

2511
01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 10: Then, Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.

2512
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 10: If you really want to help us, make sure you

2513
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:45,200
Speaker 10: like us wherever you get your podcasts like Apple Podcasts

2514
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:45,800
Speaker 10: or Spotify.

2515
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:47,160
Speaker 1: Also make sure you follow

2516
01:56:47,240 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 10: Us on the New England Patriots YouTube channel to see

2517
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:50,880
Speaker 10: this show and everything else that we do here at

2518
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:52,120
Speaker 10: the Patriots, thanks a lot,