WEBVTT - Talking (with Fran Lebowitz) 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.720 I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both. 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.640 I've said it here before that I'm a big admirer 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.800 of people who get things done well. My guest today 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.840 is someone who proudly claims she doesn't like to work. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.520 She thinks she's pretty lazy, and she would have been 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:21.880 a good heiress. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.119 Well, fran Lebowitz is not. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.960 An heiress, but she is an icon and an institution 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:33.280 of New York City and American culture. As you'll hear, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:39.080 she's whip, smart, funny, and full of opinions. Fran famously 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.879 wrote for Andy Warhol's Interview magazine, and she is the 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:48.160 author of two best selling collections of essays, but hasn't 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.839 written another book since the mid nineteen nineties. Instead, she 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:57.520 can be found talking in documentaries. She's done two with 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.040 Martin Scorsese, and the latest from twenty twenty one is 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.400 called Pretend It's a City, or on late night television, 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.440 or in her speaking tour across the United States and 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.680 around the world. Few voices out there are as original 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:22.360 and unapologetic as fran Leebwitz's. She's a truth teller and 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.280 a real breath of fresh air. I was so delighted 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.959 to have this chance to sit down and talk with her. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.600 I cannot tell you how pleased I am to talk 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.880 with you today, friend, and I thank you. I feel 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:37.520 like I've got all of New York City, or at 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.080 least Manhattan, right here in this booth with me. And 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.520 I want to talk to you about your speaking tour, 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.800 your docuseries, and of course New York City. And I 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.560 was just asking you. You're heading to Brooklyn for a 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.160 live event. You've been to Brooklyn, right, yes, New Yorst times. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:56.120 My grandparents lived in Brooklyn. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.760 So when I was young, that's where grandparents lived, uh huh. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.240 And then I got older, and then now it's where 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.040 kids live, by which I mean people in their twenties. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:07.920 That's right. And I always say to them, you know, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.359 when I was young, Brooklyn is a place where people. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.720 The people live there were all the time eating talking 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.040 about food and watching TV or talking about TV. And 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:18.880 now it's a place where people are eating all the time, 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.800 talking about food, watching TV. Except they're seventy years younger, 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:23.919 you know, and they're not my mcgwen grandparents. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:24.920 I love that. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.400 Well, you're going to King Theater, which you haven't been 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.679 to before. I've been there for two events, and it's 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:33.760 an extraordinary renovation. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.359 So Mashine photographs. It was a movie theater. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.679 It was a movie theater in the old days, the 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.360 very old days, but they've done an amazing job bringing 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.880 it back and they have live events like what you're 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.000 going to be doing. You know, you have had one 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.480 of the more interesting, kind of one of a kind 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.680 careers that I know of, And. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.240 Well, I would have to say I bowed to you 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.480 in that Missus Well maybe schecking. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.360 Well, I think we're you know, we're kind of on 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:01.120 parallel tracks. 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.160 Yeah, we're exactly right, Astra Twins. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.160 Part of it is. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:09.600 You are a person of incredible gutsiness. And I admired 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:10.840 gutsiness a lot. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.560 Yes, I could tell, because you have it. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.720 You got to have it in today's world. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.320 And I just wanted the listeners to get a feeling 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.679 for how you ended up in New York as a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.320 very young woman, as I recall, like like nineteen twenty, very. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:31.480 Young, nineteen twenty. No, I'm not fair, I was nineteen 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.000 or twenty. I actually can't remember, because I think, you know, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.960 I think I was nineteen. I grew up in New Jersey, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.520 so people who are not from around here say, oh, 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.400 it's the same thing. It's no, it's the same planet. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.120 It make no difference being from like Iowa, you know. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.440 But I really had a very happy childhood. And I 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.240 know that's against Sola, but it was really a nice 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.400 town to be a child in. But at a fairly 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.120 young age, we used to come to New York. I 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:57.600 always said, when I grew up in little of New 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.840 York and we used to always go. They would at 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:02.040 a certaindage, they said, where do you want to go 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:03.000 on your birthday? What do you want to do to 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:04.680 a birth that I want to go to New York? Where 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.000 do you want to go to? Museum Motorn Art. That's 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.760 the place I always wanted to go. And I think 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:09.960 that possibly, like the age of ten or eleven, I 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:11.920 imagine I would move to New York and live in 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.720 the Museum Modern Art. This has not happened, And so 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:17.719 you know, people say, well, how did you get to 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.560 New York? I would say, bus buss. Okay, if your 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.240 goal in life is to live in a certain place, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.279 you achieved your goal easily. Yeah, you know, people set 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.080 the bar too high. My goal was I'm going to 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:28.600 live in New York. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.200 I lived in New York and I mean you've driven 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:36.039 cabs in New York. You've been a housekeeper, not a housekeeper, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.479 a cleaning lady. Cleaning lady, Oh my god, that's a 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:40.800 phrase from my past. 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.880 Yeah, but I mean, believe me, no one would hire 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:43.960 me to keep a house. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:50.159 Okay, but you ended up in an incredible position of 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:51.960 actually starting to be a writer. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:53.080 How did that go? 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.600 I mean, you went from cab driving, being a cleaning 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.880 lady and all of a sudden you're meeting Andy Warhol 0:04:57.920 --> 0:04:58.400 and oh. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.080 No, no, I was doing the same time. Because you I 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.760 didn't make enough money. No, I had those kind of 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.240 jobs until my first book came out, you know, So, 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.760 I mean I always had to have those kinds of jobs. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.040 It wasn't that hard, you know. Partially there were all 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.920 these little magazines that we called underground newspapers. They weren't underground, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.280 you know, it wasn't Russia. And all you had to 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.800 do is like ask because it wasn't that hard. Because 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:21.560 no one my age wanted to be a writer. That 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.039 was a good thing. I had almost no competition. Everyone 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.479 my age who wanted to be an artist wanted to 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:27.839 be a filmmaker or a musician. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:28.440 Not. 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.640 Now everyone's a writer, even without being able to write, 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:33.600 and so it was not hard at all, you know, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.320 to get these jobs. And they paid nothing, so it 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:37.240 was pretty easy. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:37.680 You know. 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.320 New York was when people hear the rent I paid, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.320 then they got that. You know, that's impossible. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.200 Okay, what was the rent? 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.240 You're paid that apartment one hundred and twelve dollars and 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.040 seventy eight cents a month. When I first moved in, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.800 like nine years later whatever it was, seven years later, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:53.960 it had jumped to one hundred and twenty one dollars. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.640 On the other hand, the minimum wage was a dollar 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.600 and a quarter an hour. Also, it was an incredibly 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.480 horrible apartment. No one would live in this now. The 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.400 other thing is that people my age, you know, then 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:04.960 we didn't really care where we live. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:06.080 That's exactly right, you know. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.600 I mean we expected to live in horrible places and 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.760 we were just never home. It didn't matter, you know, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.840 I mean it never occurred to me, why don't I 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:13.680 have a nice apartment? 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.120 Yeah, yeah, No, I was thinking about the house I 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:17.839 lived in when I was in law school, which was 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.680 in the early seventies, and you know, the floors were 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.080 all tilted and the bathroom was so small, literally it 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.839 was just you know, as wide as a card table, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.600 and every time you tried to lift the toilet seat 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.000 down or up, it would scrape against the bathtub. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.920 I mean all of that. And I thought it was fine, That's. 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.239 What it was fine. I knew there were nicer apartments 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.520 in my believing. But when I first moved in, the 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.560 super of that building, that's the only time I ever 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.719 saw him. The super came in the apartment with me, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:44.560 and I pointed out to him that there was no 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.640 ceiling in the bathroom. Adjust the beams from this building, 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.800 which was like a nineteenth century building built actually as 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:57.360 a sailor's roominghouse, so there were no kitchens. And I said, look, 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.080 there's no ceiling here. He said, yeah, I know, I'm 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.760 going to get to that. I moved out like eight 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.600 years later. There was still no a sailing So it 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.240 turns out you actually do not need a ceili in 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.680 a bathroom. You do not. No, you can live without it. 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.920 When did you publish your first book, because it was 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.720 a phenomenon, it was fantastic, nineteen seventy eight, And how. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:14.480 Long did you work on it? 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.840 Well, you know, it was really kind of a fluke. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.600 What happened. I was writing this column for Interview, which 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.080 no one read it or that was see Andrew Warhol magazine, right, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.440 and very few people read it, but it was available 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.400 on newsstands in New York. And a woman who since 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.840 died named Laurie Colwin, who actually became pretty well known writer, 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.480 was a little junior editor at Dunton, which doesn't assist anymore. 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:35.680 And she was sick, she had a flu or something, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.920 and she said to her boyfriend, I have nothing to read. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.840 Go to then a stand by every magazine that I've 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.640 never heard of, and he did, and she read this 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.280 and then she read another one. And then she called 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.720 me up and said, would you like to write a book? Oh? 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:49.360 My god? 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.080 And I said no. I said no, I'm not ready 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.280 to write a book. She said, well, I'm an editor 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.040 at EP Dunton. Would you like to have lunch? 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:56.360 Yes? 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:57.560 Lunch? 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:58.360 It is great. 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.800 Yes, And so that's how it happened. Really, no one 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.080 had ever heard of me. I didn't know this, by 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.480 the way, because the places I hung out and everyone 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.440 read an interview. It was really a fluke. It was 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.840 also a fluke. Then Laurie got fired and usually like 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:15.720 a little first book like that they paid nothing for. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.280 There gets fired, the book goes away. But luckily there 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.400 was a man, Henry Robbins, also dead, who had just 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.440 come to be the head of this publishing house, and 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.920 he was a very important editor. I made a big 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.600 deal in New York and I was hanging around in 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.640 his office. I didn't even know who he was. I 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.680 was hanging around this office because the heat. And so 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.560 when she left, she said, Henry wants your book, and 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.120 also another guy, lovely guy, and also Bill. And I said, well, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:44.880 I like Bill, I know him more. She said, don't 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.000 be stupid. Henry's the head of the house. So he 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.920 became the editor. And then he did something that Laurie 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.600 never could have done. There was like a really really 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.240 important there's no such thing anymore, the most important book 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.120 critic on the country, John Leondard for the New York Times, 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.280 and he did the daily reviews. And Henry could call 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.400 John Leonard and he said, I think there's a book 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.199 you might like, and he took him to lunch. He 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.199 gave Hi the book that would never have happened with Laurie. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.240 So it was very lucky for me that Laura got 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.319 fired and then there was also another review on the 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.920 Sunday Time the same week, and then there was no news. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.959 So because there was no news where people paid attention 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.640 to this. You know, people never talk about luck in 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.920 this country. You know, luck is really probably the most 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.600 determinive factor in anyone's life. I agree with that, you know, 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.920 and no one talks about it. Everyone asks, like in 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:34.480 the United States, it all has to do with how 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.400 hard you work, and that is just not true. Okay. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.760 The most important luck you first have is where are 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:40.199 you born? 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:40.840 Exactly? 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.240 Okay, who are your parents? Where are you born? What 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:44.439 are their circumstances? 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:45.680 And how healthy are you? 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.680 Yes? And that is ninety percent of your life. You 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.959 were kidding yourself, if you think, because they show you 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.000 these things they do they say, look at this person 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.920 born into total poverty, you know, with the thirteen year 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.240 old mother and you know she was not well, and 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.319 you know, yet he became this. Yeah, that's like really 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.760 an anecdote. But basically it's not true, you know, It's 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.720 just simply isn't true. And it's a very I think, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:10.240 kind of destructive myth. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.559 Well, people beat themselves up all the time and look 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.120 like why can't I do that? They have failed in something, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.400 or they're ashamed. Yeah, I feel guilty, or they feel like, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.400 you know, why can't I do that? It's just like 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:21.960 being old. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.199 Okay. They're always showing you a ninety seven year old 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.720 man who finished a marathon. Okay, that's what they're showing. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.760 Here's this ninety seven year old guy, he just ran 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.840 the New marathon. He's in perfect condition. Yes, there is 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.040 a guy like that. But the other ninety seven year olds, 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.439 you know, not in very good shame. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.199 But I'd even go and say that when it comes 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.080 to the outlier, the person who was born in terrible circumstances, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.679 if you really look at that person's life, somebody provided 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:49.680 a path forward. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.719 Somebody handed that person. 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:56.120 An opportunity something because something happened, the serendipity of you 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.800 having an editor who's homesick reading your you know, your columns, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.240 and then all of a sudden everything takes off from there. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.080 Something happens, and that's luck. That's an intervening event. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.240 I think it's really a disservice to the country for 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.440 someone not to say, you know, here's the truth. Yeah, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.480 you know, you should work hard, you could, you know, 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.280 very often improve your leg. 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.800 And we could as a society do more to create 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.000 the opportunity or. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.920 In fact anything, yeah, not just more, but in fact 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:24.760 maybe anything. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:25.120 Yeah. 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:39.360 Yeah, we'll be back right after this quick break. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.200 So what was Andy Warhol like? 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.080 Oh? You know, truthfully, I did not like Andy and 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.640 he did not like me. I know, now everyone loves Andy, 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.680 especially if you didn't know him, Loving him is much easier. 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.760 I think I didn't get along with them. And I 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.439 noticed most of the people around the factory because they 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.600 went there because they wanted to be around Andy. But 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.120 I just went there because there was a magazine. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:11:59.439 Right. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.760 But I don't like him. He don't like me because 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.960 I wouldn't talk to him, and you know, I talk 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.400 a lot. I didn't talk to him because he stole everything. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.520 I could see that right away that he stole everything. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.000 The reason he had these kids around him was maybe 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:16.840 this kid would come up with this thing or you know, 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.000 and so I had nothing else but that, right, and 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.199 I wasn't gonna let it go away. Now. I mean, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.520 I have to say that after my second book came out, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.400 I still worked interview and I only make money during 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.960 democratic presidencies, which means I only make money when taxes 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.840 are high. And when my first book came out, Carter 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.800 was president, and these top income tax bracket if you 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.560 were single. This is another unfair thing. Why do single 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.920 people pay more taxes than married people? They shouldn't. It's 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.240 totally unfair. You might be able to do something about it. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.200 But however, I can't remember what it was. It was 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.880 like one hundred thousand dollars a year, seventy percent seven 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.400 zero percent. Before that, I paid no taxes because I 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.559 made three thousand dollars a year. I was completely shocked, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.760 and so I thought money, which I always thought would 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.400 be like helpful, try out to be bad. So I said, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.520 you know, to the edir of interview, don't pay me 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.880 money is terrible. I will take it in art. So 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.600 I had all these warholes. However, what also, when no 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:22.160 one remembers about Andy, is that before he died, his 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:27.200 reputation was very very low. Yes, and I needed money. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.680 I couldn't pay my maintenance, and I sold all my 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:36.000 warholes all two weeks before he died for nothing, I 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.800 mean in order to All I did was pay the 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.920 maintenance of my apartment for one month, and I paid 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.560 a lawyer Okay, one of the lawyers I paid with 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.520 actually gave them a warholes. I'm sure, like you know, 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.880 it was a Tuscundy now, And I actually think that's 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.880 that's why he died, because he knew I had sold me, right, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.800 That's why he died. But the prices, I knew that 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.880 we're going to go up, but no one would ever 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.440 what they are now. Yeah, I mean they are so 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.400 psychotic now that I really think if Andy knew they 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.760 go up that high, he would have died way before. 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.839 Well, you had these two very successful books, and then 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.000 you had a third. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.640 Book, the children's book. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.360 Yeah, but then you stop writing. And I've read where 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.880 you are very open about this. You tell interviewers, Yeah, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.000 you've had writer's block and you haven't been able to write, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.880 but you're sure doing a lot of great talking. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:30.400 So is that the trade off? 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.240 You don't want to be like closeted away having to write, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.480 which anybody who's ever tried knows is really hard when 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.400 you've got a lot to say, So you go out 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.960 and tell people across the country, in the world. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.840 Yeah, Well, because talking is easy, I'm lazy? Is it 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.120 basically laziness? I mean, you never hear anyone say they're 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.840 lazy anymore, even though there's tons of lazy people, you know, 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.520 many of them are you know, Republicans or congress I mean, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.240 so I was like, I'm lazy. Writing is really hard 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.000 for me. If it's not hard for you, I don't 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.720 mean you sparking to you. Yes, if it's it's not 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.000 hard for someone, you know, it's they're not doing it. Well, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.120 it's a hard thing to do. Some people like to 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.880 work hard, but I don't. So talking is easy. I 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.200 don't even think about it. So I took these. 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.200 Away on well, but but you're touring now or the 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.440 traveling is horrible? The travel I was going to say, 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.120 I mean, that's not easy going from town to town, 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:24.920 venue to venue. What's that like for you? 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.400 It's horrible for me because the way that airlines are 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.280 running basically nice, you know. I mean, I know for 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.000 a fact, no matter where I am in the world, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.520 I am the angriest person in the airport. And that 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.960 is because I don't have a phone. I finally figured 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.040 it out, like why should everyone else in a fury? 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.640 And it's because, except for me, everyone's looking at their phone. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.680 So if you're looking at your phone, that's where you are. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.720 It's a geographical thing. It's like, but I'm in the 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.520 airport where no one wants to be, and I'm always 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.160 at the counter, and I always have to say, I 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.920 know it's not your fault exactly, okay, but whoever's fault 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.200 it is? You know, they're never here, that's right, whoever are? 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:01.600 Where are they? I mean, you know who is in 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.320 seeing the people who run the airlines, and I would 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.440 say you realize, of course that no other businesses run 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.920 like this, none. And there's not a single person in 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.840 the airport who, if they did their work this way, 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:15.240 could afford to fly. Okay, who says you know we're 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.800 going to be leaving, We'll let you know, you know. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.960 I mean if you go to a restaurant and they say, yes, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.320 we're gonna open for dinner, but we're not. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:24.120 Sure, we're not sure what. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.480 Just hang around for two or three days and we'll 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.000 let you know, you know. So, yeah, the traveling is 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:29.720 really horrible. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.080 But how do you prepare for that trip? 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.120 Because you are famously known not to have a cell phone, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:36.840 not to have a computer. 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.000 So here you are, you do have I guess, like maybe. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.040 A written list telling you you're going to you know, 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.320 Dubuke and Boise, and I have people go with me. 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.920 I have like like they with phones. You've got people 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.440 got a phone patrol, right, well, you know, they call 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.760 themselves to our managers. But a friend of mine calls 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.160 them your babysitters. So yeah, people have to go with 0:16:58.200 --> 0:16:59.600 me because of course I can't do it. And I 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.840 I actually have almost no skills at all, you know. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.080 I mean it's not just I can't travel like this. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.320 You know, basically I can talk, I can write. When 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.640 I can write, I can read, and that's pretty much it. 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.560 And they actually like do everything, you know. And then 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.520 there's also people that you can hire at the airport. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.280 They're called greaders. They reach you, they take you, They 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.840 put you in the car, They tell you take this out, 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:23.919 take the car down, takes the you know, do this, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.920 take your shoes, you know whatever. I just do whatever 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.040 they say, and it works out because I get there. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.000 You kind of, I know, you say you're angry at 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.440 the airport, but don't you have to kind of put 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.800 yourself into a bit of a zen like trance, like, Okay, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.840 I go where they tell me to go, I do 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:38.439 what they well, I. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.320 Do do that. But no, I'm angry. I mean, first 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.479 of all, I'm just generally angry. I try not to 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:48.359 be because I smoke cigarettes, which now is a terrible thing. Smoking. 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:49.960 I want it turned out now to be a wonderful 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.840 thing healthy, No one cares, but the smoking cigarettes are 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.000 very bad. And so you know, when you get really angry, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.439 you want to smoke because it like leaves your tension. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.239 So I try not to get the name. I had 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:02.920 to go to Australia about five years ago. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.680 Oh man, that's a journey. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.280