1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: I've said it here before that I'm a big admirer 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: of people who get things done well. My guest today 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: is someone who proudly claims she doesn't like to work. 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: She thinks she's pretty lazy, and she would have been 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: a good heiress. 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: Well, fran Lebowitz is not. 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: An heiress, but she is an icon and an institution 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: of New York City and American culture. As you'll hear, 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: she's whip, smart, funny, and full of opinions. Fran famously 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: wrote for Andy Warhol's Interview magazine, and she is the 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: author of two best selling collections of essays, but hasn't 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: written another book since the mid nineteen nineties. Instead, she 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: can be found talking in documentaries. She's done two with 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese, and the latest from twenty twenty one is 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: called Pretend It's a City, or on late night television, 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: or in her speaking tour across the United States and 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: around the world. Few voices out there are as original 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: and unapologetic as fran Leebwitz's. She's a truth teller and 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: a real breath of fresh air. I was so delighted 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: to have this chance to sit down and talk with her. 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how pleased I am to talk 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: with you today, friend, and I thank you. I feel 24 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: like I've got all of New York City, or at 25 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: least Manhattan, right here in this booth with me. And 26 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about your speaking tour, 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: your docuseries, and of course New York City. And I 28 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: was just asking you. You're heading to Brooklyn for a 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: live event. You've been to Brooklyn, right, yes, New Yorst times. 30 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: My grandparents lived in Brooklyn. 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: So when I was young, that's where grandparents lived, uh huh. 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: And then I got older, and then now it's where 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: kids live, by which I mean people in their twenties. 34 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 3: That's right. And I always say to them, you know, 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 3: when I was young, Brooklyn is a place where people. 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: The people live there were all the time eating talking 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: about food and watching TV or talking about TV. And 38 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: now it's a place where people are eating all the time, 39 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: talking about food, watching TV. Except they're seventy years younger, 40 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 3: you know, and they're not my mcgwen grandparents. 41 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: I love that. 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: Well, you're going to King Theater, which you haven't been 43 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: to before. I've been there for two events, and it's 44 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: an extraordinary renovation. 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 3: So Mashine photographs. It was a movie theater. 46 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: It was a movie theater in the old days, the 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: very old days, but they've done an amazing job bringing 48 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: it back and they have live events like what you're 49 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: going to be doing. You know, you have had one 50 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: of the more interesting, kind of one of a kind 51 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: careers that I know of, And. 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 3: Well, I would have to say I bowed to you 53 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: in that Missus Well maybe schecking. 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: Well, I think we're you know, we're kind of on 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: parallel tracks. 56 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're exactly right, Astra Twins. 57 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: Part of it is. 58 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: You are a person of incredible gutsiness. And I admired 59 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: gutsiness a lot. 60 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: Yes, I could tell, because you have it. 61 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: You got to have it in today's world. 62 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: And I just wanted the listeners to get a feeling 63 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: for how you ended up in New York as a 64 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: very young woman, as I recall, like like nineteen twenty, very. 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: Young, nineteen twenty. No, I'm not fair, I was nineteen 66 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: or twenty. I actually can't remember, because I think, you know, 67 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: I think I was nineteen. I grew up in New Jersey, 68 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: so people who are not from around here say, oh, 69 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: it's the same thing. It's no, it's the same planet. 70 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: It make no difference being from like Iowa, you know. 71 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: But I really had a very happy childhood. And I 72 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: know that's against Sola, but it was really a nice 73 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 3: town to be a child in. But at a fairly 74 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: young age, we used to come to New York. I 75 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: always said, when I grew up in little of New 76 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: York and we used to always go. They would at 77 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: a certaindage, they said, where do you want to go 78 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: on your birthday? What do you want to do to 79 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: a birth that I want to go to New York? Where 80 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: do you want to go to? Museum Motorn Art. That's 81 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: the place I always wanted to go. And I think 82 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: that possibly, like the age of ten or eleven, I 83 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: imagine I would move to New York and live in 84 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 3: the Museum Modern Art. This has not happened, And so 85 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 3: you know, people say, well, how did you get to 86 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: New York? I would say, bus buss. Okay, if your 87 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: goal in life is to live in a certain place, 88 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: you achieved your goal easily. Yeah, you know, people set 89 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 3: the bar too high. My goal was I'm going to 90 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 3: live in New York. 91 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: I lived in New York and I mean you've driven 92 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: cabs in New York. You've been a housekeeper, not a housekeeper, 93 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: a cleaning lady. Cleaning lady, Oh my god, that's a 94 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: phrase from my past. 95 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean, believe me, no one would hire 96 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: me to keep a house. 97 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: Okay, but you ended up in an incredible position of 98 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: actually starting to be a writer. 99 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: How did that go? 100 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you went from cab driving, being a cleaning 101 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: lady and all of a sudden you're meeting Andy Warhol 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: and oh. 103 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 3: No, no, I was doing the same time. Because you I 104 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: didn't make enough money. No, I had those kind of 105 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: jobs until my first book came out, you know, So, 106 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: I mean I always had to have those kinds of jobs. 107 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 3: It wasn't that hard, you know. Partially there were all 108 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 3: these little magazines that we called underground newspapers. They weren't underground, 109 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't Russia. And all you had to 110 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: do is like ask because it wasn't that hard. Because 111 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: no one my age wanted to be a writer. That 112 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: was a good thing. I had almost no competition. Everyone 113 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 3: my age who wanted to be an artist wanted to 114 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: be a filmmaker or a musician. 115 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: Not. 116 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 3: Now everyone's a writer, even without being able to write, 117 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 3: and so it was not hard at all, you know, 118 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 3: to get these jobs. And they paid nothing, so it 119 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: was pretty easy. 120 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: You know. 121 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: New York was when people hear the rent I paid, 122 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 3: then they got that. You know, that's impossible. 123 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: Okay, what was the rent? 124 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: You're paid that apartment one hundred and twelve dollars and 125 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 3: seventy eight cents a month. When I first moved in, 126 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: like nine years later whatever it was, seven years later, 127 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: it had jumped to one hundred and twenty one dollars. 128 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: On the other hand, the minimum wage was a dollar 129 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 3: and a quarter an hour. Also, it was an incredibly 130 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 3: horrible apartment. No one would live in this now. The 131 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: other thing is that people my age, you know, then 132 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 3: we didn't really care where we live. 133 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, you know. 134 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 3: I mean we expected to live in horrible places and 135 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: we were just never home. It didn't matter, you know, 136 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 3: I mean it never occurred to me, why don't I 137 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: have a nice apartment? 138 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I was thinking about the house I 139 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: lived in when I was in law school, which was 140 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: in the early seventies, and you know, the floors were 141 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: all tilted and the bathroom was so small, literally it 142 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: was just you know, as wide as a card table, 143 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: and every time you tried to lift the toilet seat 144 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: down or up, it would scrape against the bathtub. 145 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: I mean all of that. And I thought it was fine, That's. 146 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 3: What it was fine. I knew there were nicer apartments 147 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: in my believing. But when I first moved in, the 148 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: super of that building, that's the only time I ever 149 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 3: saw him. The super came in the apartment with me, 150 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: and I pointed out to him that there was no 151 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: ceiling in the bathroom. Adjust the beams from this building, 152 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: which was like a nineteenth century building built actually as 153 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 3: a sailor's roominghouse, so there were no kitchens. And I said, look, 154 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: there's no ceiling here. He said, yeah, I know, I'm 155 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: going to get to that. I moved out like eight 156 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: years later. There was still no a sailing So it 157 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: turns out you actually do not need a ceili in 158 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: a bathroom. You do not. No, you can live without it. 159 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: When did you publish your first book, because it was 160 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: a phenomenon, it was fantastic, nineteen seventy eight, And how. 161 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: Long did you work on it? 162 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it was really kind of a fluke. 163 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: What happened. I was writing this column for Interview, which 164 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: no one read it or that was see Andrew Warhol magazine, right, 165 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: and very few people read it, but it was available 166 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: on newsstands in New York. And a woman who since 167 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: died named Laurie Colwin, who actually became pretty well known writer, 168 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 3: was a little junior editor at Dunton, which doesn't assist anymore. 169 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: And she was sick, she had a flu or something, 170 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: and she said to her boyfriend, I have nothing to read. 171 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: Go to then a stand by every magazine that I've 172 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: never heard of, and he did, and she read this 173 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: and then she read another one. And then she called 174 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: me up and said, would you like to write a book? Oh? 175 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: My god? 176 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 3: And I said no. I said no, I'm not ready 177 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: to write a book. She said, well, I'm an editor 178 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: at EP Dunton. Would you like to have lunch? 179 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: Yes? 180 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: Lunch? 181 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: It is great. 182 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: Yes, And so that's how it happened. Really, no one 183 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: had ever heard of me. I didn't know this, by 184 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 3: the way, because the places I hung out and everyone 185 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: read an interview. It was really a fluke. It was 186 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: also a fluke. Then Laurie got fired and usually like 187 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: a little first book like that they paid nothing for. 188 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: There gets fired, the book goes away. But luckily there 189 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: was a man, Henry Robbins, also dead, who had just 190 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: come to be the head of this publishing house, and 191 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: he was a very important editor. I made a big 192 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: deal in New York and I was hanging around in 193 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: his office. I didn't even know who he was. I 194 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 3: was hanging around this office because the heat. And so 195 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 3: when she left, she said, Henry wants your book, and 196 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: also another guy, lovely guy, and also Bill. And I said, well, 197 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: I like Bill, I know him more. She said, don't 198 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: be stupid. Henry's the head of the house. So he 199 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: became the editor. And then he did something that Laurie 200 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: never could have done. There was like a really really 201 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: important there's no such thing anymore, the most important book 202 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: critic on the country, John Leondard for the New York Times, 203 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: and he did the daily reviews. And Henry could call 204 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: John Leonard and he said, I think there's a book 205 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 3: you might like, and he took him to lunch. He 206 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 3: gave Hi the book that would never have happened with Laurie. 207 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: So it was very lucky for me that Laura got 208 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: fired and then there was also another review on the 209 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: Sunday Time the same week, and then there was no news. 210 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 3: So because there was no news where people paid attention 211 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: to this. You know, people never talk about luck in 212 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: this country. You know, luck is really probably the most 213 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: determinive factor in anyone's life. I agree with that, you know, 214 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: and no one talks about it. Everyone asks, like in 215 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: the United States, it all has to do with how 216 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: hard you work, and that is just not true. Okay. 217 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: The most important luck you first have is where are 218 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 3: you born? 219 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: Exactly? 220 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: Okay, who are your parents? Where are you born? What 221 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 3: are their circumstances? 222 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 2: And how healthy are you? 223 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 3: Yes? And that is ninety percent of your life. You 224 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 3: were kidding yourself, if you think, because they show you 225 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: these things they do they say, look at this person 226 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: born into total poverty, you know, with the thirteen year 227 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: old mother and you know she was not well, and 228 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 3: you know, yet he became this. Yeah, that's like really 229 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 3: an anecdote. But basically it's not true, you know, It's 230 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: just simply isn't true. And it's a very I think, 231 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: kind of destructive myth. 232 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: Well, people beat themselves up all the time and look 233 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: like why can't I do that? They have failed in something, 234 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: or they're ashamed. Yeah, I feel guilty, or they feel like, 235 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, why can't I do that? It's just like 236 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: being old. 237 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 3: Okay. They're always showing you a ninety seven year old 238 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 3: man who finished a marathon. Okay, that's what they're showing. 239 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: Here's this ninety seven year old guy, he just ran 240 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: the New marathon. He's in perfect condition. Yes, there is 241 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 3: a guy like that. But the other ninety seven year olds, 242 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 3: you know, not in very good shame. 243 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: But I'd even go and say that when it comes 244 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: to the outlier, the person who was born in terrible circumstances, 245 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: if you really look at that person's life, somebody provided 246 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: a path forward. 247 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 2: Somebody handed that person. 248 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: An opportunity something because something happened, the serendipity of you 249 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: having an editor who's homesick reading your you know, your columns, 250 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden everything takes off from there. 251 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: Something happens, and that's luck. That's an intervening event. 252 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 3: I think it's really a disservice to the country for 253 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: someone not to say, you know, here's the truth. Yeah, 254 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: you know, you should work hard, you could, you know, 255 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: very often improve your leg. 256 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: And we could as a society do more to create 257 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: the opportunity or. 258 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 3: In fact anything, yeah, not just more, but in fact 259 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 3: maybe anything. 260 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 261 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll be back right after this quick break. 262 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: So what was Andy Warhol like? 263 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 3: Oh? You know, truthfully, I did not like Andy and 264 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: he did not like me. I know, now everyone loves Andy, 265 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 3: especially if you didn't know him, Loving him is much easier. 266 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: I think I didn't get along with them. And I 267 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 3: noticed most of the people around the factory because they 268 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: went there because they wanted to be around Andy. But 269 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: I just went there because there was a magazine. 270 00:11:59,280 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: Right. 271 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: But I don't like him. He don't like me because 272 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 3: I wouldn't talk to him, and you know, I talk 273 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 3: a lot. I didn't talk to him because he stole everything. 274 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: I could see that right away that he stole everything. 275 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: The reason he had these kids around him was maybe 276 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 3: this kid would come up with this thing or you know, 277 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: and so I had nothing else but that, right, and 278 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna let it go away. Now. I mean, 279 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: I have to say that after my second book came out, 280 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: I still worked interview and I only make money during 281 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: democratic presidencies, which means I only make money when taxes 282 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: are high. And when my first book came out, Carter 283 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: was president, and these top income tax bracket if you 284 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 3: were single. This is another unfair thing. Why do single 285 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: people pay more taxes than married people? They shouldn't. It's 286 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: totally unfair. You might be able to do something about it. 287 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 3: But however, I can't remember what it was. It was 288 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 3: like one hundred thousand dollars a year, seventy percent seven 289 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: zero percent. Before that, I paid no taxes because I 290 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 3: made three thousand dollars a year. I was completely shocked, 291 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: and so I thought money, which I always thought would 292 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: be like helpful, try out to be bad. So I said, 293 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: you know, to the edir of interview, don't pay me 294 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 3: money is terrible. I will take it in art. So 295 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: I had all these warholes. However, what also, when no 296 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: one remembers about Andy, is that before he died, his 297 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 3: reputation was very very low. Yes, and I needed money. 298 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: I couldn't pay my maintenance, and I sold all my 299 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: warholes all two weeks before he died for nothing, I 300 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: mean in order to All I did was pay the 301 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: maintenance of my apartment for one month, and I paid 302 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: a lawyer Okay, one of the lawyers I paid with 303 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: actually gave them a warholes. I'm sure, like you know, 304 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: it was a Tuscundy now, And I actually think that's 305 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 3: that's why he died, because he knew I had sold me, right, 306 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: That's why he died. But the prices, I knew that 307 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: we're going to go up, but no one would ever 308 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: what they are now. Yeah, I mean they are so 309 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: psychotic now that I really think if Andy knew they 310 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 3: go up that high, he would have died way before. 311 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 1: Well, you had these two very successful books, and then 312 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: you had a third. 313 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: Book, the children's book. 314 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you stop writing. And I've read where 315 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: you are very open about this. You tell interviewers, Yeah, 316 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: you've had writer's block and you haven't been able to write, 317 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: but you're sure doing a lot of great talking. 318 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: So is that the trade off? 319 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: You don't want to be like closeted away having to write, 320 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: which anybody who's ever tried knows is really hard when 321 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: you've got a lot to say, So you go out 322 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: and tell people across the country, in the world. 323 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, because talking is easy, I'm lazy? Is it 324 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: basically laziness? I mean, you never hear anyone say they're 325 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: lazy anymore, even though there's tons of lazy people, you know, 326 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: many of them are you know, Republicans or congress I mean, 327 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 3: so I was like, I'm lazy. Writing is really hard 328 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: for me. If it's not hard for you, I don't 329 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: mean you sparking to you. Yes, if it's it's not 330 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: hard for someone, you know, it's they're not doing it. Well, 331 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: it's a hard thing to do. Some people like to 332 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 3: work hard, but I don't. So talking is easy. I 333 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 3: don't even think about it. So I took these. 334 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: Away on well, but but you're touring now or the 335 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: traveling is horrible? The travel I was going to say, 336 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's not easy going from town to town, 337 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: venue to venue. What's that like for you? 338 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 3: It's horrible for me because the way that airlines are 339 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: running basically nice, you know. I mean, I know for 340 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: a fact, no matter where I am in the world, 341 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: I am the angriest person in the airport. And that 342 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: is because I don't have a phone. I finally figured 343 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: it out, like why should everyone else in a fury? 344 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 3: And it's because, except for me, everyone's looking at their phone. 345 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 3: So if you're looking at your phone, that's where you are. 346 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: It's a geographical thing. It's like, but I'm in the 347 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 3: airport where no one wants to be, and I'm always 348 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: at the counter, and I always have to say, I 349 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: know it's not your fault exactly, okay, but whoever's fault 350 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: it is? You know, they're never here, that's right, whoever are? 351 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 3: Where are they? I mean, you know who is in 352 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: seeing the people who run the airlines, and I would 353 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: say you realize, of course that no other businesses run 354 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: like this, none. And there's not a single person in 355 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: the airport who, if they did their work this way, 356 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 3: could afford to fly. Okay, who says you know we're 357 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: going to be leaving, We'll let you know, you know. 358 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: I mean if you go to a restaurant and they say, yes, 359 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: we're gonna open for dinner, but we're not. 360 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: Sure, we're not sure what. 361 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: Just hang around for two or three days and we'll 362 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: let you know, you know. So, yeah, the traveling is 363 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: really horrible. 364 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: But how do you prepare for that trip? 365 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: Because you are famously known not to have a cell phone, 366 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: not to have a computer. 367 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: So here you are, you do have I guess, like maybe. 368 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: A written list telling you you're going to you know, 369 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: Dubuke and Boise, and I have people go with me. 370 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 3: I have like like they with phones. You've got people 371 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: got a phone patrol, right, well, you know, they call 372 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: themselves to our managers. But a friend of mine calls 373 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: them your babysitters. So yeah, people have to go with 374 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: me because of course I can't do it. And I 375 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 3: I actually have almost no skills at all, you know. 376 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: I mean it's not just I can't travel like this. 377 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: You know, basically I can talk, I can write. When 378 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: I can write, I can read, and that's pretty much it. 379 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: And they actually like do everything, you know. And then 380 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: there's also people that you can hire at the airport. 381 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 3: They're called greaders. They reach you, they take you, They 382 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 3: put you in the car, They tell you take this out, 383 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 3: take the car down, takes the you know, do this, 384 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 3: take your shoes, you know whatever. I just do whatever 385 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: they say, and it works out because I get there. 386 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: You kind of, I know, you say you're angry at 387 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: the airport, but don't you have to kind of put 388 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: yourself into a bit of a zen like trance, like, Okay, 389 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: I go where they tell me to go, I do 390 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: what they well, I. 391 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 3: Do do that. But no, I'm angry. I mean, first 392 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 3: of all, I'm just generally angry. I try not to 393 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: be because I smoke cigarettes, which now is a terrible thing. Smoking. 394 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 3: I want it turned out now to be a wonderful 395 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: thing healthy, No one cares, but the smoking cigarettes are 396 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 3: very bad. And so you know, when you get really angry, 397 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 3: you want to smoke because it like leaves your tension. 398 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,239 Speaker 3: So I try not to get the name. I had 399 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 3: to go to Australia about five years ago. 400 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a journey. 401 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: And I'm going again in a few months. And really 402 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: traveling to me is about smoking basically, because when you 403 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 3: could smoke on planes and airports, it didn't really bother me. 404 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 4: You know. 405 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: I look when I think, well they don't smoke. You know, 406 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 3: they're not thinking when am I going to get out? 407 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 3: I know exactly every single place United States? How long 408 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 3: would that a cigarette? And so when I was going 409 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 3: to Australia the first time, I said, no, I'm going 410 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 3: to be in a total calm state. I'm not going 411 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 3: to look at my watch, I'm not going to think 412 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 3: about it. I'm going to get a perfect book. I 413 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: asked someone, what is a book that will last twenty 414 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 3: one hours and that will be very engrossing. And someone 415 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 3: said to me, have you ever read The Master Builder 416 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: about Robert Moses power Broker? 417 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: Power Broker? 418 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 3: And I said no, So I did. It's like eight 419 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: million pages. I hadn't won bag. Every time someone met 420 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 3: me at airport and took my bag, it's a small bag. 421 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 3: The guy would go, what's in here? I would say 422 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: a book, a book, But it worked. The book worked. 423 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 3: But actually, that fact that I didn't kill anyone on 424 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 3: that flight is my greatest accomplishment. 425 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: I congratulated you, and I hope you keep that record 426 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: going when you go to I mean, like lots of 427 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: times when you read about people fighting on airplanes, I 428 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: always think they smoke, you know, I mean for sure 429 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: they drink, okay, so I don't drink, So like, that's 430 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: probably why I don't kill people on plays. 431 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: So you bring one big fat book with you when you're. 432 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 3: Just say that was just for that La to Melbourne trip. 433 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 3: Oh that's a long okay. No. I bring a lot 434 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 3: of books with me. Even though everyone says, you know, 435 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 3: if you had a computer, all the books could be 436 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 3: on the computer. 437 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: I can't do that, though, fran I have to have books. 438 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: I mean, people say the same thing to me. I 439 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: have a book bag on every flight I take. 440 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: But running out of books on a plane is really 441 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 3: a much bigger fear of mine than the plane's going 442 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 3: to crash. I'm not worried about the plane crashing, okay, 443 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: but I am worried, like because I once ran out 444 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: of books on a plane. And it was a long time. 445 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 3: It was so long ago. They had magazines on the planes, 446 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 3: and I remember and I ran out of books, and 447 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 3: I thought, well, what am I going to do? So 448 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: I asked you any magazines? Which just happened this one. 449 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 3: That's how I discovered there was a magazine called Golf Magazine, 450 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: which is a magazine about golf, okay, which is like, okay, 451 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: it's better than no magazine, but not much. And I 452 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: actually walk up in down the aisles asking people, do 453 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 3: you have a book you're not reading? Do you have 454 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 3: a book you might finish? You might have finished, you know, 455 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 3: because there are more people reading books on plas than 456 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 3: there or no. 457 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: I've been there, done that. I mean, yeah, I got 458 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: to have a book. 459 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: So now the way I understand your tour, you pick 460 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: somebody to interview you. 461 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 462 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: Well I don't always pick them. I mean I picked 463 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: them in places where I know people. Right, you know, 464 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: I'm going to fade I mean I did this already. 465 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 3: I was going to Fadeville, Arkansas. 466 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: Yea. 467 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: They said, who would you like to interview you? I said, 468 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: choose someone? Yeah, okay, I don't know anyone in favor 469 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: for Arkansas. So usually it's a journalist. You know. But 470 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 3: as I'm sure you know, many places there's no newspapers anymore, 471 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 3: so there are no local journalists, right. But usually journalists 472 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 3: that's usually a best choice because despite what most people think, 473 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: interviewing someone's a skill. It is, okay, like I don't 474 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 3: have them myself, So interview someone as a skill, and 475 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: they're the better people at it. Usually I do the 476 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: interview for half an hour, and then I that person 477 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 3: leaves the stage and I go to a podium and 478 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 3: I ask your questions for the audience for one hour. 479 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 3: This is my favorite activity on a planet Earth, other 480 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 3: than reading. 481 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: How's it set up? 482 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: Just I just stand in a podium, yeah, and house 483 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 3: lights go up and people raise their. 484 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 2: Hand and no microphone. They yell, they yell the question. 485 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 3: Well, I don't allow microphones in the audience. And this 486 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 3: is a constant fight between me and my agent, or 487 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 3: me and the venues, you know, because they say people 488 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 3: can't hear, and I say it doesn't matter. I sometimes 489 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 3: can't hear the people repeat the question somewhat, you know, 490 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 3: because if you have microphones in the audience, you don't 491 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: get questions from the audience. You get answers from the audience. 492 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 3: You know, they want to make speech, so go make 493 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: a speech, but not here. And that's why I don't 494 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: allow the microphone. 495 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: That's so interesting because you know, I'm teaching at Columbia now, 496 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm teen teaching, and so we teach for seventy minutes 497 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: and then we do questions at the end for twenty minutes. 498 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: But we do we have a microphone in the center aisle, 499 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: and we you know, try to keep it moving along. 500 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 1: But there's always the risk somebody is going to like 501 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: hold the microphone hostage. 502 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 3: You know they're going to But you're teaching law, right. 503 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: No, we're teaching. 504 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: I'm teaching a course on foreign policy decision making called 505 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: inside the Situation Room. 506 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 3: Yeah you should be in Washington teaching this. 507 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, or somewhere, you know, honestly, So you've 508 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: done something recently, you know, within the last you know, 509 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: year two or three, which I think is pretty gutsy also, 510 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: and that was making a documentary and you made. 511 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: It with one of the greatest filmmakers. 512 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 3: In well, they didn't make it. Marty made it. 513 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: Marty Scorsese made it. But you were an active participant 514 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: because it was about you. 515 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it was. You know, Marty made a movie 516 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 3: about me about ten years before for ESBO called public Speaking, 517 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: and when he said he wanted to do this, I 518 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 3: said no. I always said no to documentaries about me 519 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 3: because I don't want to follow me around. And so 520 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 3: but with Marty and I know Marty, I said, well, 521 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: it can't be about me, Marty about my life. I 522 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 3: just wanted to be about what I think. And so 523 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 3: that's what it was. But you could only do that, 524 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 3: first of all. First of all, and people say, what 525 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 3: was like to collaborate with Scorsese, I would have no idea. 526 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 3: I'm not a collaborator with the greatest living American filmmaker. 527 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: I don't know it all. But I have a great 528 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 3: rapport with Marty. So you know, basically that is mostly 529 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 3: just me talking to Marty. There's other stuff. I mean, 530 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: I think Tony Morris and there's other people, but it's 531 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 3: basically talking. And then he wanted to another one right 532 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: away and I said no. And then this thing with 533 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: Netflix came and I said, I could do it, but 534 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: let's just do it about New York. I'm just going 535 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 3: to walk around New York and talk about New York. 536 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: Marty goes quait, I'm going to walk with you. I said, 537 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 3: don't be ridiculous, because, as I'm sure you know, almost 538 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: all famous people said they to get back nice, but 539 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: they're all lying. But Marty hates it. He really hates it. 540 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 3: So I said, you cannot walk around with me, Marty, 541 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: I said, because we're not going to be able to 542 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: walk more than one step in New York. I mean, Martin, 543 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 3: you can't do it. So the one day that Marty 544 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: came was actually visible during the filming in the street. 545 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 3: Within two minutes, he's hiding inside of a building. So 546 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: I said, you can't do that, Marty. It's not going 547 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: to work out. 548 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: And you know, for again for our listeners, it's got 549 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: this really evocative title. 550 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Pretend it's a city. Where did that come? 551 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: From that's my title. Okay, so I'm not I don't 552 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 3: make contributions to marty'scorsess, you know work, but that was 553 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 3: my title because you know, for I don't know how 554 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 3: many years, it's been like thirty or twenty five years 555 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: where there's been so many tourists in New York. You know, 556 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 3: the year before COVID, I see in the paper. You know, 557 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 3: last year, fifty eight million tours came to New York. 558 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: So there's already nine million people here. Yeah, okay, it's crowdy, 559 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: you know, don't come go somewhere else. And these tours 560 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 3: trive me crazy for numerous reasons, one of which is 561 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 3: that they have nowhere believe they have to go. Oh so, 562 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 3: what they don't realize is that in New York, walking 563 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 3: is a form of transportation. It is, Okay, that's how 564 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: we get a lot of places. Okay. It's also the 565 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 3: most reliable and also many times the fastest. So but 566 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: they don't do that. They first of all, there's a 567 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: lot of them together, you know, I mean there could 568 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 3: be like five people together, which you've never seen New 569 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 3: Yorkers do because that's too sociable. You got to get 570 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: somewhere and they stop. They just stand in the middle 571 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 3: of the sidewalk. And I am constantly getting in fights 572 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: with these people. By when it fights, I mean I 573 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 3: yell at them, you know, please move, please move nothing. 574 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 3: And so I started yelling like about ten years ago. Move. 575 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 3: Pretend it's a city. It's not your living room, it's 576 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: not your backyard. You know. People have to get some places. 577 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 3: That's where pretend to see if they came from. 578 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: That is great. 579 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: Well, you also mentioned Tony Morrison, such an extraordinary human 580 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: being as well as just a great writer. 581 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: How did you meet her? How did you become friends 582 00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: with her? 583 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 3: You know? Actually people asked me a lot where did 584 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 3: you and Marty meet? And neither one of us know. Okay, 585 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 3: but Tony. I not only remember where, I remember exactly when, 586 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 3: because my experience with Tony is what happened. There used 587 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: to be, or perhaps still is, something called the American 588 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 3: Society of Poets, and they sent me a letter and 589 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: I said, you know, we have a reading series at 590 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 3: the McDonald library. Would you like to read in the series. 591 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 3: This is my name, here's my phone number. So I 592 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: called on the telephone the man and he said, would 593 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: you like to read in this I said, yes, I 594 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: would like to. He said, we always have two people 595 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 3: reading together. Do you know who Tony Marrison is. She 596 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 3: wasn't that well known then, so I said yes. He said, 597 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 3: do you like her work? I said, I love her work. 598 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 3: He said, would you like to read together with her? 599 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 3: I said no. He said why not? I said, it's 600 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 3: too weird. It's a bizarre combination. It doesn't make sense 601 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 3: to me as a combination. He said, do you object 602 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: to it? I said no, but he said, well, we 603 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 3: think it's a good combination. So we read together and 604 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 3: it was a great combination. I don't know why. As 605 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 3: soon it was over, Tony said, this is a great combination. 606 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: Let's go on the road. So we did not actually 607 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: go on the road, but I became friends with her 608 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 3: instantly in a way that that's not usually how friendship works. 609 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: That's like maybe like a love affair maybe, you know, 610 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 3: because you know, love affairs don't have the last and 611 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 3: so I know exactly what it was. It was nineteen 612 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 3: seventy eight. Oh god, I love that story, and yes 613 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 3: it's true. I mean, Tony was a great writer. Everyone 614 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 3: knows she was a great writer, but she was also, 615 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 3: I mean, I've known lots and lots of very smart people, 616 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 3: but she is the only wise person I've ever known. 617 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: So the lack of not just my life in the world, 618 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: you know. I mean, I know a lot of people died, 619 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: I miss a lot of people, but not like Tony. 620 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, for people who weren't privileged like you 621 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: and I were to have met her and like you 622 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: to be a friend of hers. Just google her and 623 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: look at that picture of that amazing face and the 624 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: way that she just had a presence. Anything you can 625 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: ever see of her speaking, giving any kind of address, 626 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: doing anything but read her books. 627 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 3: Read her books, yes, and read them an order. Okay, 628 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 3: if you've never points present point that's that you asked, 629 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 3: not that anyone has asked. But my advice to people 630 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 3: when they've never read a writer before, I mean a 631 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 3: good writer, or in the case of they're a great writer, 632 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: read the writer in order if you've never read them before, 633 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 3: because then you see how they change, you know. And 634 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 3: so I mean, I can't say I wish I'd never 635 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: read Honey, but it'd be a pretty thrilling thing to 636 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 3: come to it new. 637 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 2: Yes, it would be. And to start from the beginning 638 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: from the beginning. 639 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I think about pretend it's a city, 640 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: I think about how consistent you've been in really defending 641 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: the culture of the city, the. 642 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: Feeling of the city. 643 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: And you know, I've heard you speak with great regret 644 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: about what you think has happened to New York City 645 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: over time. And you know the role of so called 646 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: gentrification and pushing people out. If you had the proverbial 647 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: magic wand what would you tell or make you know, leaders, 648 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, not just mayor's, governor's presidents, but also the 649 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: business leadership here in this what would you have them 650 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: do to try to restore the spirit of this city 651 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: that you love and deserves everybody's love and attention. 652 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: Pay your taxes, but which I mean is rich people 653 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 3: pay your taxes. Pay your taxes. You know this whole 654 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 3: thing about this kind of gigantic philanthropy, you know, giving 655 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 3: like a zillion dollars and you're going to name this 656 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 3: museum after me, And I get that. You know that 657 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 3: kind of philanthropy is unpaid taxes, That's all it is. 658 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 3: If you have a job, like a regular job where 659 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: you get paid every week or two weeks, whatever, the 660 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 3: taxes come out of your pay. So they pay their taxes. Okay, 661 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: they pay you know, a significant percentage of their incoming taxes. 662 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: And so I don't want to know, like you know, 663 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: when I hear some like you know, zillionaire say I 664 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 3: pay forty million dollars in taxes, not enough. It's not 665 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: a big enough percentage of the money that you made. Also, 666 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: not that anyone asked me. I didn't even know when 667 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 3: I was young that taxes were hired on earned income 668 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 3: than on a passive income. First of all, what is 669 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 3: passive income means? It means you're not doing anything right. 670 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: Your money is making money. 671 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, your money's making money. And I'm out a communist. 672 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 3: I'm not saying we should have capitalism. I'm saying we 673 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 3: should have more fairness. It's really unfair. It is really unfair, 674 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: and it was solful a lot of problems when every 675 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 3: people say, well there aren't enough rich people, they're enough here. 676 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: I mean, one thing is that New York does not 677 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 3: lack for rich people. 678 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Where were you during COVID? Were 679 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: you in your apartment? 680 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 3: Yes? For entire year? For one year, yes, during which 681 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: time at zero income. So like no money. That my 682 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: government put twelve hundred dollars into my bank account, which 683 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: was nice, but huh. For a year, and I had 684 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: never I mean a lot most people, I guess didn't 685 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: know COVID was coming, but I had never thought about it. 686 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: I never thought, what if there's a plague. 687 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it turned down. 688 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: That's what a lot of people had. Because there's a 689 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 3: lot of people read science fiction or they watched science fiction, 690 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 3: and it's apparently a common theme of science fiction. So 691 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 3: I couldn't think about it. I didn't know how to 692 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 3: think about it, and unfortunately now I do. 693 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: Well, you were home with your what ten thousand books? 694 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 3: I was home with my books. I mean. The worst 695 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 3: thing about COVID, I mean, for me, obviously, the worst 696 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 3: thing about covis people died or got really sick. But 697 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 3: the second worst thing is fran There were no bookstores open, 698 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 3: so I buy books by I go in a bookstore, 699 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 3: I opened a book, I read like a page or two, 700 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 3: or sometimes last night I go no or yes, sometimes 701 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: I'm wrong, but not usually. But because bookstores were closed, 702 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 3: I had to borrow a friend's am a on account 703 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 3: I paid her back. And the only way I knew 704 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 3: about books. What new books there were was either reviews 705 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 3: or people recommended them to me. This is a terrible way. 706 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have that first hand experience. 707 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 3: Are you kidding? I now have about one hundred and 708 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 3: twenty books in my apartment that I never would have 709 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 3: bought in a million years. Well, you should give them away. 710 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 3: I've spent a lot of time thinking, it's like when 711 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: my father died. I always my father's in the last 712 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: generation of men. Who when he died you had one 713 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: hundred ties neckties? Yes, so I spent like a year 714 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 3: like thinking who should have this tie of my father's. 715 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 3: So now I'm spending like another year agoing who would 716 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: like this book? So my father had a lot nicer 717 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 3: ties that I have books that I want. 718 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: So, oh gosh, friand I am thrilled to have this 719 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: conversation with you. 720 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to end with a future oriented question. 721 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: Is there anything you really want to do or something 722 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: that if it came across your path you'd jump on doing? 723 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 3: Well, I would like to be the mayor. 724 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: Well, why don't you run? 725 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: I couldn't win this room. I'm sure I couldn't win. 726 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: I would like to be the mayor because we have 727 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 3: horrible mayors, you know. I mean I've lived here for 728 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 3: fifty years. There's been two mayors that I felt were 729 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 3: good in fifty years. Is not enough? Not enough? All right? 730 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 3: So it's a really great job. And it's the second 731 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 3: hardest job in New York and in the country, no questions. 732 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 3: And the mayor of New York one thing, since I 733 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 3: just am our present mayor of someone I really don't like. 734 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this scene went last 735 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 3: week to Mexico City that if you're the mayor of 736 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: New York, do not leave New York until everything is 737 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 3: fine here, okay. And if you want to take a 738 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 3: tropical vacation, I don't want to pay for it. You know, 739 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 3: he went to see why people immigrate. You know what, 740 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: call me, I'll tell you why. Okay, get ten cents 741 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: or whatever it costs to make a phone call. Now 742 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 3: give me a call. I'm going to tell you. And 743 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 3: don't get on a plane and charge it to New Yorkers. 744 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the city deserves so much love and 745 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: attention and support and leadership and all the rest of it. 746 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: So you know, I've run for a few things. If 747 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: you decided to run give me a call. 748 00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: I definitely wive a call. 749 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 2: Thank you, Fran, what a joy. 750 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 3: I rank you really was. It was a pleasure an 751 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: honor for me too. Thank you. 752 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: For information on where you can see Fran in person 753 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: while she's on her speaking tour, go to Franlibowitz dot com. 754 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is brought to you by iHeartPodcasts. 755 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, 756 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: with help from Huma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz, 757 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: Laura Olin, Lona Valmro and Lily Weber. Our engineer is 758 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray. 759 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: If you like You and Me Both, tell someone else 760 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what 761 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? You can subscribe to You and 762 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 763 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. 764 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week.