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Speaker 1: Warning this podcast could take spoilers for the Last of

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Speaker 1: Us episode eight, and potentially some minor spoilers from ant

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Speaker 1: Man in the Wasp Quantumnia in our nerd Out section,

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Speaker 1: so be warned. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcio and

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Speaker 1: on Rosey Night, and welcome to x ray Vision, the

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Speaker 1: Crooked Media podcast where we dived Dee been to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, hope you're hungry because in the.

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Speaker 3: Hello Dinners, Dennis some delicious venison in the lock we're

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Speaker 3: talking about the Lost of Us episode eight and in

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Speaker 3: nerd Out it's a theory on I'm Man in the

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Speaker 3: Wasp Quantumnia.

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Speaker 2: You might have heard of it.

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Speaker 1: If you want to jump around, as always, check the

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Speaker 1: show notes for the time stamps. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: Coming up next to the airlock, we're stepping out of

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Speaker 1: the airlock and into the restaurant for the Last of

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Speaker 1: Us episode eight, titled When We Are in Need, written

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Speaker 1: by Craig Mason and directed by Ali Abassi, and we

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Speaker 1: open with scenes of deep winter. We see a not

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Speaker 1: quite frozen lake somewhere in Colorado. We see a sign

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Speaker 1: for Silver Lake, Colorado, and over these wintry images, we

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Speaker 1: hear the voice of a man saying, behold, the Tabernacle

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Speaker 1: of God is with men. The preacher's name is David.

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Speaker 1: He is the leader of a small Christian fundamentalist group

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Speaker 1: whose motto is when we are in need, he shall provide.

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Speaker 1: And David is reading these lines with sadness. It seems,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's got this. He really projects this kind

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Speaker 1: of like humility, but almost like he's trying to project

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Speaker 1: this humility. He's so he's been, you know, he's been

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Speaker 1: weighted down with this responsibility, and he's all too familiar

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Speaker 1: with the sadness that that responsibility brings. There's a young

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Speaker 1: girl and a woman we assume to be her mother,

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Speaker 1: sitting close to the preacher. They look distraught. He then

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Speaker 1: asks the girl if she remembers what comes next. She doesn't,

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Speaker 1: so he finishes it for her, He says, and God

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Speaker 1: will wipe the tears from their eyes, and there will

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Speaker 1: be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying. The former

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Speaker 1: things are passed away. Do you know what that means?

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Speaker 1: And basically it means Heaven is pretty good now this

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Speaker 1: the daughter and the woman are the family of We

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Speaker 1: are soon to find out of the course of this episode,

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Speaker 1: the man who was killed in the previous episode when

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Speaker 1: the group of raiders attacked Joel and Ellie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely very interesting. I really like the choice

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Speaker 2: here to show us what happened, show that the raiders

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Speaker 2: were the aggressors, and then to have this kind of

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Speaker 2: opening where they want to flip that on its head.

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Speaker 2: But there's always this creepy edge to it, where we

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Speaker 2: know what really happened, we know what these people do

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Speaker 2: to survive, we know they will go out and kill people.

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Speaker 2: But here are the family, here's the fallout, and when

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Speaker 2: it's again it's that question of what will we do

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Speaker 2: to survive? But here we're not going to get an

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Speaker 2: empathetic version of that story. This is something, as you

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Speaker 2: will gain from the next line that David says, this

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Speaker 2: is something much darker.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the most empathetic reading of a situation like this,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the in the you do what you

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Speaker 1: have to do to survive formulation, right, you get killed

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Speaker 1: taking another people's stuff. That will just kick off this

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Speaker 1: cycle of retribution, you would imagine, And that's very much

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Speaker 1: what this, not just this episode, but this series is about.

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Speaker 1: On a certain level, and it really seems to no spoilers,

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Speaker 1: but to be pointing ahead towards the themes and content

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Speaker 1: of the sequel game too.

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Speaker 2: It really does. From Kathleen to here, we're really getting

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Speaker 2: a lot of hints towards what happens in the in

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Speaker 2: the second part of the game.

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Speaker 1: And it also like not to belabor it, but it

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Speaker 1: also you know, when when that's your dad, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to believe they do bad stuff, right, and he

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Speaker 1: died doing something good. They did, They died fighting.

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Speaker 2: He was a you know, I think that's really powerful

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Speaker 2: and I think that they did a great job with

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Speaker 2: this character. Is the young girl being your in character.

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Speaker 2: She is ignorant to what is really going on in

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Speaker 2: this colony, as we will find out, and also as

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Speaker 2: we lay alone. David is a mini pulator. He is

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Speaker 2: a groomer. He is he is a violent, horrible man.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is this is someone who who is

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Speaker 2: manipulating the people who follow him. And I love that

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Speaker 2: we do get this one moment of somebody who truly

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Speaker 2: believes that they have been wronged and they don't know

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Speaker 2: the context, and obviously to her it's just a shocking loss.

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Speaker 2: But like you said, I like that. It shows that

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Speaker 2: seed of retribution, and we'll see the young girl trying

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Speaker 2: to seek that out later.

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Speaker 1: To the girl asks if they can bury her dad,

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Speaker 1: and a look passes between David and a few picked

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Speaker 1: men here in the What we are soon to learn

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Speaker 1: is like the the restaurant of this former resort, and

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Speaker 1: David is like, nah, you know the ground is, it's frozen.

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Speaker 1: It's frozen solid folks until the springtime. Don't worry. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: let's put a pin.

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Speaker 2: In that, a burying thing.

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Speaker 1: Let's say March April. We'll come back to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And as you will, if you've read The Road,

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Speaker 2: if you've watched The Walking Dead, you probably understand that

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Speaker 2: this point what is really going on in Silver Lake

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Speaker 2: because when when she asks that and David shoots a

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Speaker 2: look to his men, you know, including Troy Baker here

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Speaker 2: in a new role who played Joel in the game,

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Speaker 2: you know what's going on and it is creepy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you definitely feel it. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't know right here, you get you certainly you certainly

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Speaker 1: understand that something is a miss. Later on David business congregationbuye.

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Speaker 1: They head back to their homes and James, his lieutenant,

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Speaker 1: comes up. Uh this is the man that David exchanged

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Speaker 1: the glance with. And they start talking about the stores,

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Speaker 1: how much meat we've got left, Elk Venison all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and Jay is like, you know, one or two weeks

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Speaker 1: some so somewhere thereabouts, uh we And and you learn

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Speaker 1: that David has groups scouring the surrounding area for supplies,

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Speaker 1: but there's really nothing to be found in in this

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Speaker 1: in this region. David then tells James that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sensing some doubt here, and James's like, what no.

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Speaker 1: The congregation like obviously, like it's tough, people are hungry,

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Speaker 1: it's very very cold, but they they their faith remains unshaken.

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Speaker 1: And David's like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about you, bro,

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Speaker 1: what about you? And James is like, no, I still

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Speaker 1: believe the less. And it's always when someone says I

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Speaker 1: still believe and then goes on to keep talking, you know,

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Speaker 1: like that off the bot right, it's like there's no

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Speaker 1: butt here, but it feels James. James says, I still

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Speaker 1: believe now, and then you know, the last six months

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Speaker 1: have been hard, but he insists that he's with David,

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Speaker 1: but again it seems like a pretty weak assurance. Back

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Speaker 1: with our friends Ellie and Joel, Ellie is checking on

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Speaker 1: Joel's wound. You know, it's certainly not bleeding anymore after

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Speaker 1: Ellie's kind of hasty and rough sewing up of the injury,

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Speaker 1: but you know, infection and the regular yeah, is certainly

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Speaker 1: a concern, and yeah, he and Joel is absolutely out

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Speaker 1: of it. There's this wonderful like maternal moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the rolls suddenly flipped, where Ellie choose some jerky,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost desperately, and then leaves it on Joel's

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Speaker 1: blanket for him to eat should he rouse himself and

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Speaker 1: need to need to eat, and then she slips away

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Speaker 1: to go hunt. She tries to tackle a rabbit, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't work. She and then soon after that she spots

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Speaker 1: a deer, takes aim, shoots it, but the animal it's

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Speaker 1: not a kill shot, so the animal kind of runs.

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Speaker 1: She has to go find it, and of course it

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Speaker 1: drops dead right at the feet of David and James,

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Speaker 1: who are in the area looking for forage, looking for supplies.

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Speaker 1: Ellie gets the drop on him. She's like, drop your rifles,

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Speaker 1: turn around, walk away. David goes right into preacher mode

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Speaker 1: and he's ready. He's ready, specifically, as we are going

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Speaker 1: to learn over the course of this episode. He sees

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Speaker 1: a young girl by herself, and David is like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: here we go. Hey, you have ten seconds. Hey, just

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Speaker 1: before you before you shoe us off your dear, you

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Speaker 1: have ten seconds to talk about you know where you

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Speaker 1: are spiritually.

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Speaker 2: And you need to help us. We got all the people, women, children,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's got trip and he really wants Sally

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Speaker 2: to go back.

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Speaker 1: With him now, and and and he and he offers

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Speaker 1: a trade. He's like, maybe there's something we can help

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Speaker 1: you with. You give us half the deer, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we have stuff. And then before he can even like

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Speaker 1: list anything, she just puts out, do you have medicine?

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Speaker 1: And then David is like, aha, here is a vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: Here is the thing that I can I sense I

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Speaker 1: have leverage here. Uh. And David's like, oh yeah, we

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Speaker 1: got uh, we got lots of medicine. You come back

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Speaker 1: with us to where cabin Ellie's wisely, he's like no, no, thank.

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Speaker 2: God, I was worried for a moment, you know, like

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Speaker 2: she's not the most sensible person but for the first time,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, but I like that here she she

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Speaker 2: trusts that guy. That's that instinct that when you're a kid,

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Speaker 2: your parents are like, if you feel that, just follow that,

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Speaker 2: Like if somebody gives you a bad vibe, don't go.

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Speaker 2: And she does the right thing and she's like, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going back with you.

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Speaker 1: Then she does the slightly less unwise thing but still

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Speaker 1: unwise thing, which is she lets James go back to

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Speaker 1: get medicine. He goes. David is like, hey, go get

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Speaker 1: two bottles of penicillin from Howard and a syringe. James

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Speaker 1: is like he is speak in his eye like is

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Speaker 1: this cold?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And David is like, it's not code, James, just

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Speaker 1: do it now. When he says it's not code James,

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Speaker 1: that should have been Ellie's first clue that like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Part of a group. I'm sending this guy back.

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Speaker 1: He might tell somebody, yeah, I need to be I

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Speaker 1: need to be on guard here.

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Speaker 2: But it's about Joel's survival. I think Ellie has that

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Speaker 2: tunnel vision this episode just about how can she help

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Speaker 2: the man that she cas so deeply about come through this?

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Speaker 2: How can she avoid being alone? Which you know she

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Speaker 2: said to Sam was her greatest fear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So David and Ellie end up in the ruins

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Speaker 1: of this house. They've built a fire and they're sitting

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Speaker 1: there with this deer carcass and Ellie's got her gun

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Speaker 1: on David the whole time, and David is continuing his pitch.

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Speaker 1: He's like, why don't you join us? Why don't you

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Speaker 1: join our group? Uh? And Ellie's like, it doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: that great, because you yourself said that you're starving. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like you're doing great. You're stealing my dear.

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Speaker 2: I'm a child and I killed idea and now you

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Speaker 2: are stealing it from me. I don't think it sounds

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Speaker 2: like a good trade.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, but I'm a decent guy and

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to do uh right by the people

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Speaker 1: who rely on me. Uh. And she's like, okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're their leader and he's like yeah, but but they

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Speaker 1: chose that they wanted that to be the thing, and

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Speaker 1: Ellie and this is good, this is actually great. That

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Speaker 1: Ellie sniffs this out right away, like this is some

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Speaker 1: weird cult thing. Like she's very very much.

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Speaker 2: Yes, babe, Like one hundred yes.

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Speaker 1: And David does not give the most authoritative and sir.

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Speaker 1: When Ellie says, is this some weird cult thing? And

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Speaker 1: David's verbatim answer his actual answer is uh. He starts

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Speaker 1: with this very long uh, and he goes, ah, I'm

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Speaker 1: just your basic Yeah, just your basic preacher, Bible preacher.

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Speaker 1: That's it. What was the up, bro?

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Speaker 2: Everyone in this colony needs to have better prepared answers.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna see this at time and time again. I'm like, bro,

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Speaker 2: you could have just said no. If somebody asks you

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Speaker 2: if it's a cult, just say no. But then we

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Speaker 2: will run that for some reason throughout this episode, probably

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Speaker 2: his own delusional mind, but David sees something in Ellie

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Speaker 2: that he thinks is a kindred spirit. So I also

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Speaker 2: wonder if that's why he doesn't immediately lie to her.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe she likes you cults. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: deny it in case she's into it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this when we get to that,

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Speaker 1: but let's talk about it now. I this is part

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Speaker 1: of David's hitch to Ellie. I took that to be

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Speaker 1: David's just a flat out is grooming he is, You're

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Speaker 1: so special, like you're You're the only one that understands me.

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Speaker 1: You know, all these people I'm with they don't get it.

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Speaker 1: They don't get it the way you understand. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: you really understand what's going on here, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like you're a kindred spit. Like I took that as Oh,

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Speaker 1: David's an even deeper scumbag than than than we could,

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Speaker 1: than we are than we know about right now.

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Speaker 2: He definitely is, and you see that in the way

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Speaker 2: that he approaches Ellie, Like the actor who brings him

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Speaker 2: to life is.

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Speaker 1: So terribly deeply unsettling role.

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Speaker 2: It's so quiet and at no point. What I really

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Speaker 2: love about this is they don't try and fake us out.

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Speaker 2: They understand that we know the genre enough that they

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Speaker 2: don't need to make us think, oh, maybe it is

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Speaker 2: a good place, because if you think about it, like

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Speaker 2: The Walking Dead, I think a lot about the Sanctuary storyline,

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Speaker 2: which was actually one of my favorite storylines, where they

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Speaker 2: seek out this place that's allegedly the safe place for survivors.

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Speaker 2: They get there, they get fed this delicious meal lo

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Speaker 2: and behold, oh, actually you're going to be dinner. Like

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Speaker 2: season five Walking Down or whenever that happens. But like,

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Speaker 2: I like here that from the outset, you are just

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Speaker 2: given clues constantly, atmosphere clues, tone clues, visual clues, vibe

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Speaker 2: clues that David is just bad news. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's a really good way of building the creepiness and

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Speaker 2: tension that kind of leads to this explosion of violence.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the.

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Speaker 1: Episode, X ray Vision will be back and we're back,

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Speaker 1: so we get some of David's backstory. He says that

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Speaker 1: he was just a math teacher, which again, bad vibes.

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Speaker 1: Here's a good yeah, the bad vibes can continue, like

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Speaker 1: this was a person working with young people. We should

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Speaker 1: assume and consider what we learn over the course of

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Speaker 1: this episode very troubling. And he says, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was not even religious until after the end of the world.

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Speaker 1: We learned that he was at the Pittsburgh QZ, which

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Speaker 1: fell due to ongoing battles between Fedra and the Fireflies,

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Speaker 1: and then he and some people started heading west and

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Speaker 1: they'd find a camp and that raiders would attack the

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Speaker 1: camp and then they'd have to move on and picking

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Speaker 1: up people along the way, and that's how they came

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Speaker 1: to be here in Colorado and He believes that all

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Speaker 1: of that, all of that constant kind of movement to

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Speaker 1: the west, attack, a search for peace, the death on

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Speaker 1: every side, all of that was as it should be,

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Speaker 1: because it's what brought them here. All of this happens

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Speaker 1: for a reason. Don't believe it. Check this out. And

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Speaker 1: then David tells Ellie recently, I sent out a forging

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Speaker 1: party of four and winter. It's been hard. Food's been scares,

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Speaker 1: people have been starving. Only three men came back. Now

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Speaker 1: the man who died was a father, and he was

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Speaker 1: killed by a crazy man traveling with a little girl.

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Speaker 1: And now Ellie's like, oh fuck, and she stiffens. But

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Speaker 1: before she can even think about pulling the trigger on

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Speaker 1: her rifle, David's saying, James, lower, you're going to realize

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Speaker 1: that they've already got to drop on her. James, for

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Speaker 1: his part, recognizes that Ellie was the girl who was

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Speaker 1: with the man who killed their companion and their friend.

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Speaker 1: And David is like, yeah, but forget all that. Just

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Speaker 1: give her the medicine. James is like what it's like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just give it to her. And then David again offers

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Speaker 1: to take Ellie and he's like, I can protect you

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Speaker 1: you know you're out here alone. This is no place.

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Speaker 1: You know, this world is not safe, or a young

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Speaker 1: girl alone. Ellie takes the medicine and runs off, and

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Speaker 1: James is like, I can't believe that you're just gonna

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Speaker 1: let her get away. But of course he's not going

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Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this is a good sign as well

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Speaker 2: that David is clearly not like a very trusted leader.

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Speaker 2: Even though he has this power, he kind of rules

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Speaker 2: through this fear, as we'll find out in a couple

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Speaker 2: of scenes. And also I just find it very interesting

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Speaker 2: that that's James's first thought. It's not like, oh you oh,

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Speaker 2: obviously we're gonna follow her, or what's the plan next

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Speaker 2: that he just thinks like, oh, you saw a young

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Speaker 2: girl and you gave her what you wanted because you're

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Speaker 2: a creep. Like it's really interesting. They show you so

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Speaker 2: many dynamics in these small moments.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's right, and I think that it's

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Speaker 1: even more insidious than that, because it tells you that

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Speaker 1: David has, even from his followers, a secret side. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because James is like the fact that James doesn't understand

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Speaker 1: of course David's not gonna leave it here. This is

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Speaker 1: not the end of it. You think he's that was

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Speaker 1: just like largees, it was just generosity. Nor the fact

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Speaker 1: that James doesn't pick that up lets you know that

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Speaker 1: David has a deeper, more secret side from the people

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Speaker 1: who you know he's ostensibly in this like intimate leadership rule.

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Speaker 2: With I love that actually, because that is a great

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Speaker 2: read where it's like David's falsification of who he is

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Speaker 2: and this kind of kindness and generosity. He has actually

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Speaker 2: sold that to them so well that James could believe

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Speaker 2: that he would just give this away because he thinks

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Speaker 2: it's the right thing to do. And I love I

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Speaker 2: love that pickup that I almost kind of didn't even

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Speaker 2: realize when I was watching that he wasn't a preacher before.

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Speaker 2: When you read it in the context after a couple

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Speaker 2: of rewatches and then talking about it with you, that

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00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: is just so creepy because that is a man who

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Speaker 2: picked up the beliefs of others in order to become

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Speaker 2: a cult leader to make the most of a post

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Speaker 2: apocalyptic situation for himself. That's so horrifying. And I think

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Speaker 2: that I wrote about this ign this week about this episode.

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Speaker 2: I think that is the notion of why these kind

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Speaker 2: of characters are always presented as the scariest thing you

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Speaker 2: can come up against inever apocalypse. What if it wasn't

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Speaker 2: the best of us who thrived at the end of

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Speaker 2: the world, but the worst of us. Yeah, and David

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Speaker 2: is absolutely that a man who knew how to manipulate

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Speaker 2: the end of the world into a situation that now

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Speaker 2: he is incredibly happy with because he's surrounded by women

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Speaker 2: and children who he is in control of. Very scary stuff.

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Speaker 1: This is a great point now. In that opening scene

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Speaker 1: where you see David with his flock in that restaurant,

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Speaker 1: the first thing that struck me was one the women

351
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Speaker 1: and the men were separate. You saw a mother with

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Speaker 1: a young daughter, You saw another mother with a young

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Speaker 1: daughter who we didn't meet them too much. But then

354
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Speaker 1: all the men sit at their own tables and it's

355
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Speaker 1: really only David that addresses the women and.

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Speaker 2: Who walks among them.

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Speaker 1: I just feel, Yeah, immediately You're like, this is there's

358
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Speaker 1: something not right here. This is not good. Whatever is

359
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,479
Speaker 1: going on here is not right now. It's just not

360
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Speaker 1: It's certainly it's awesome.

361
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: Very soon even more of that really nightmarish dynamic.

362
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Speaker 1: So Ellie returns to Joel. She just kind of guesses,

363
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Speaker 1: like where to inject the antibiotics. She does it right

364
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Speaker 1: into the wound, you know. Pad choice like good choice, Yeah,

365
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: good as good a choice as any. We go back

366
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Speaker 1: to silver Lake and the short dinner is getting cooked up.

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Speaker 1: It looks like very very red meat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks very fresh, seeing as well, they just

369
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Speaker 2: very very frunning out of meat that surely you would

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Speaker 2: have jerkied, etc.

371
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Speaker 1: We're putting this in tomato sauce that we have because

372
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Speaker 1: because that's what we have, but also like it'll help

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Speaker 1: cover up any kind of the redness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

375
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Speaker 1: Folks are kind of sitting around with their plates of

376
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Speaker 1: this meat and there's a great moment. So the moment

377
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Speaker 1: was being cooked up right where the woman who is

378
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Speaker 1: stirring all, you know, everything into the pot, uh, says

379
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Speaker 1: to the guy who brings this tray of meat, well

380
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Speaker 1: what is it? And he just goes, well, first there's

381
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Speaker 1: a long pause two to three, like a very very.

382
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Speaker 2: Long get a quicker on inside in your head, yeah.

383
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Speaker 1: And then he just goes venison. Its like it's a question.

384
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it has the little little ven.

385
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Speaker 1: So you know, everybody's h sitting around eating there or

386
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Speaker 1: getting ready to eat their plates of and you could

387
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Speaker 1: see there's a there's a really great, kind of very

388
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Speaker 1: very small moment here where you see various people eating.

389
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Speaker 1: Some of them are tearing into it, Others are like

390
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: just nibbling at it. Others seem wary of it, like

391
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: openly wary. And that is when David and James return

392
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Speaker 1: with this big deer that they took off Ellie and

393
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Speaker 1: David could not be happier to be bringing this meat in.

394
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Speaker 1: But then he sees that, oh, people are like, wait,

395
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Speaker 1: what are we eating?

396
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Everyone else is like you just showed up.

397
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just showed up with the meat. What am

398
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: I eating right now? And David's like, hey listen, okay, wait,

399
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: wait wait wait. This is one of the great fake

400
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: outs in this episode too, where David and David says, okay,

401
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: hold on, let me I need to say something. I

402
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: know there are rumors going around the camp. Okay, and

403
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: they're true. I found the girl who was with the

404
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: guy who murdered what our friend. It's so good because

405
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: you're like, I really thought like he's about to say,

406
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: hey listen, yeah, we're starving.

407
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: This time we're eating some people. Yeah, I love I

408
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: love that note that you made as well, Like it's

409
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: so well done to see the way that some people

410
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 2: are just eating it so heartily. Some people are wary,

411
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 2: some people are nibbling because, like we can tell just

412
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: from the narrative storytelling of one episode that David is

413
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: off key, and that that glance he gave to James

414
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: meant her Dad's getting eaten. So of course the people

415
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: in the room would feel the same way. I like

416
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: that respect of the intelligence of the characters and the

417
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: intelligence of the audience to know that it's not realistic

418
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: that every single person in there would just be yamming

419
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: down the food, acting like it was completely normal. There's

420
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 2: gonna be people who are starting to cotton on to

421
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: what David and James are doing.

422
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: And here we see how David keeps control of these people.

423
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Speaker 1: He does it one through his generosity sharing this food communism.

424
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: It turns out it turns out to be you know

425
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: people spoiler two, by creating these external threats. He says, Hey,

426
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: I found the man, I found the girl. I know

427
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: where she is. We're gonna send a search party out

428
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: tomorrow and we're gonna get revenge. He's out there, We're

429
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: gonna get him. And then three through outright fear and violence,

430
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: the girl whose father was killed is like, I want

431
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: them both dead? Why not kill the girl too? Like,

432
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: why are you gonna bring her back here?

433
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: It seems like a good point. And also, like I

434
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: will say as well, I think this is another great

435
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: narrative choice, because surely that seems like what the leader

436
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: would want, and that would have been a great moment

437
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: for David to be like, you're right, my child, like

438
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: we will get justice and vengeance, just like an eye

439
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: for an eye in the Bible or whatever. But that

440
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: is not the way David reacts, and it tells us

441
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 2: so much about him and this colony.

442
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: He slaps this young girl to the floor. Yeah, like

443
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: off her chair, off her chair. Nobody moves, No, everybody,

444
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: everybody stays nailed to their seat. And he says, you know, basically,

445
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: I'm your father. Now you have to respect me, or

446
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: this is what happens. Now, let's say grace, uh and

447
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: eat dinner, which is probably your.

448
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: Dad sadly, like yeah, it's so creepy. He's like, you

449
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: think you've lost your father, but you still have a

450
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: father and he's oh, so creepy, and then he's like,

451
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: and now eat your father. There's lots of fun.

452
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Now your father, he'll be part of you forever. Oh yeah.

453
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: The next The next day, Joel hard to tell if

454
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: he's getting better or not. Ellie goes outside to get

455
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: some air, and she sees a flock of crows go

456
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: up maybe half a mile away, very very close, and

457
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: she realizes that something is coming from that way. She

458
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: sneaks around and she spots them. This is five maybe

459
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: six men, including David and James, and of course they

460
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: are here to kill Joel if he isn't dead already,

461
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: and David orders them to bring Ellie back. She is

462
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: not to be harmed. James is like just another mouth

463
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: to feed. No, like, what do we have to Maybe

464
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: we'd let her stay here and die, or we kill her.

465
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe that's God's will. Yeah, I and

466
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: David gives James the most chilling stare.

467
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so scary. And I also love this moment

468
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: because after watching it again, Look, I'm not trying to

469
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: make any justification for James's behavior, and Troy is so

470
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: great in this character, Like it's so believable. This kind

471
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: of weird like weakness, this like tweaky weakness of following David.

472
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: But I also wonder, like does he have an inkling,

473
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: Like do these men think Ellie would be better off

474
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: to just be shot in the street than to go

475
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 2: back and be with David like that? Maybe he doesn't

476
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: want to kill another person to actually feed them to

477
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: someone else, Like there's something here that I think is

478
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: actually more than this idea of a mouth to feed, Like,

479
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: I think that there is a deep down somewhere there

480
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: is a slight act of mercy as he sees it,

481
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: to just shoot her in the snow instead of taking

482
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: her back.

483
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: That's an interesting read as well. It's you know, certainly

484
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: that idea of well it's better this way, mingled with

485
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: the sincere vengeance that he's seeking. She certainly would make

486
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: doing the young girl a lot easier. Ellie tries to

487
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: rouse Joel no Bueno desperately. She puts her knife in

488
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: his hand and is like, listen, I'm gonna try and

489
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: lead them away. But if I can't, this is for

490
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: anybody that comes down here. Joel is like just barely

491
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: with it. He does not seem all the way conscious.

492
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: Ellie then seals up the house like puts a puts

493
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: a piece of furniture in front of the cellar door,

494
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: gets on the horse and goes galloping down the street.

495
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: She you know, runs up on the guys says, hey, motherfuckers.

496
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: She shot at them, and then rides off. Uh, And

497
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: they're ready to shoot her, but David is like, no, alive, alive, alive,

498
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: I want her alive. James then shoots Ellie's horse out

499
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: from under her. Rip horse. We didn't know your name,

500
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: but it was really sad to see you go. Ellie

501
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: is gets the first of several concussions that she will

502
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: get over the course of this episode. Oh man, I

503
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: mean she's like legitimately unconscious for like an hour, like

504
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: a long time. It's actually medically concerning. They capture her easily.

505
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: James is about to kill her when David shoots in

506
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: the air and is like no. Then he carries her

507
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: off himself, which is fucked up, and then it's like

508
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: you all, I'm gonna take I'll take her back by

509
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: myself to our camp. You stay here and you look

510
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: for Joel.

511
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's like, if you venge get it that way,

512
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: get your hands here, and sorry to them. They don't

513
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: realize that essentially going up against the terminator, Like if

514
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: you take a kid from Joel, if you take a

515
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: little girl from Joel, if you take a baby from

516
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: Pedro Piscal as we know, you're gonna be in trouble.

517
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: So is not gonna go well for them, but good

518
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: good for them for trying to get their vengeance. Let's

519
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: see how that goes.

520
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, what follows is Joel Wick.

521
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: Joel Wick exactly instead of the little puppy.

522
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: He you know, the first victim sneaks into the house

523
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: that Joel is in, drags the obstacle away from the

524
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: cellar door, creeps down there, sees the bloodstained mattress. It's like,

525
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: who's down here? And then Joel stabs him in the

526
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: shoulder slash neck and in classic Joel fast squatsco is

527
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: like joking him out so you can't cry out, and

528
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: you get this really stark shot of the light going

529
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: out of this guy's eyes and you stare at it

530
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 1: for a long time, like you just see this man

531
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: the dead man's face, you watch him die.

532
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: They value life so much, the creators of this show,

533
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: and I think it's something that really makes this stand

534
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: out from pretty much any other post apocalyptic storytelling, even

535
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: the game. I think it's one of the smartest choices

536
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: they made in adapting it. You feel every death. Every

537
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: time somebody dies, it's horrific. It's it's terrible. Every time

538
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: someone is hurt, it's horrific, even if they've done something.

539
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: There is a cathartic nature to what Joel is doing.

540
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: But I like your john Wick reference because there's that moment.

541
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: You know, obviously love John Wick, like the stuntman movie

542
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: of all time, and I love Keanu and there's that

543
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: great moment where it's like he's like, yeah, I guess

544
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: you could say I was back, And this is definitely

545
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: like all Joel is back. This is that Joel that

546
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: we are about. This is that Joel. Everyone. Oh, Joel

547
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: did so many bad things.

548
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: Ellie.

549
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: You can't trust him, you can't. You don't know the

550
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: things that he did. We've seen reluctant Joel. We've seen

551
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: tired Joel. But this is assassin Joel. This is going

552
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: to kill you no matter what you tell him. Joel.

553
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: Where is the thing that I want? Yeah, tell me

554
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: where it is? And and we've we've spent the last

555
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: several episodes talking about Joel's lack of comfort with anything

556
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: that seems like peace or happiness, or the potential for

557
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: happiness or the potential to grow new bonds. It's the

558
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: hard ways, which Hardway's is like something to be taken from.

559
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: This is Joel in his element. This is Jewel doing

560
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: the thing that he is comfortable doing, and that's dealing

561
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: out pain to people, and it's not daring the cost himself,

562
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: bearing the cost on his own body. Ellie comes to

563
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: in a holding cell. David is there. He's been watching

564
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: her sleep and he's like, listen, I'm the only thing

565
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: keeping you from being torn apart by my followers. They

566
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: want to kill you. But I'm tears saying no, no, no,

567
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: let's give her a chance. Uh so, why don't you

568
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: just tell me your name? And she's like eat shit.

569
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: David really really wants Ellie to join up, and he

570
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: keeps on pitching this story about I can protect you.

571
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: He's offering her a new life. He's like, listen that

572
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: whatever you did before your life is before this day.

573
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: It's over. Your relationship with that man. That's done. It's

574
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: coming to an end. This is your new life at

575
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: starting right now. Back at the town, joel Is continues

576
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: to go full jowel Is. He takes out two more

577
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: of David's men. He takes some captive, drags him to

578
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: a house, and tortures them until they point out. One

579
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: of them points out where Ellie is on a map.

580
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: Then he kills that guy, and then he picks up

581
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: a pipe and he beats the fucking other guy's brains in.

582
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is one of those moments where

583
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: I just think we're constantly blown away by Petra. He's

584
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: such a brilliant act a light. We've seen him. We've

585
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: seen how brilliant he is in The Mandlurian. We've seen

586
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: this kind of quiet, stoic, tortured man that he can

587
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: be in the Last of Us. He's also brilliant comic actor.

588
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: You know, we've seen so many brilliant sights to him.

589
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: But there is such a determination and violence in this sequence,

590
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: like he is going to pop a man's kneecap off

591
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: with his knife.

592
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: There's a comfort too that easy, specifically the way he

593
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: like when he jams that his knife into the into

594
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: the you know, right behind the guy's Kneecappin says I'm

595
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: just gonna pop it off. You understand in that moment

596
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: that Jewel's done all this before. So he's done this.

597
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: He's gotten people to tell them the thing that they

598
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: don't want to tell.

599
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: It's a routine, and it makes so much of the

600
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 2: earlier episodes makes sense. I mean, imagine how uncomfortable it

601
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 2: was for him to sit with Bill at the house

602
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: and pretend to be civil when he knew that what

603
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: he could really do was killed Bill and take what

604
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: he wanted. You know, this is the way that Joel

605
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: gets things, and to see him I thought it was

606
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: really one. As game players will know, this was needed

607
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 2: in the series to show what Joel could do because

608
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: Joel is not going to stop doing this and we

609
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: needed to understand that because we have not seen this

610
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 2: kind of explosion of violence from him in this way yet.

611
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: And that moment where the guy tells him, you know,

612
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: he's in agony. He points out the map and this

613
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 2: kind of with the knife on the blood on the knife,

614
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: Joel just kills him and that's when his friend realizes,

615
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: oh shit, I'm gonna die and he.

616
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: And the guy and the guy begs for his life.

617
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: He's like, why did you do that, Yeah, you.

618
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: Told it, but he did, yeah, And I think Joel

619
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: says something like he's like, don't worry, he did tell me.

620
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: And then he just beats his head in with a

621
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: pipe and it is just like this, something is flicked

622
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: a switch in his head. And Ellie is Sarah. Sarah

623
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: is Ellie. Ellie is his door.

624
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: Sarah is his door.

625
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 2: This is you fucked up, and there's no going back.

626
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: X ray vision will be back, and we're back. We

627
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: go back to Ellie. She's alone in the case. She's

628
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: trying her darnness to escape. She's trying to unscrew little

629
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: pieces of the fencing of the gate hardware itself. And

630
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: as she's doing that, she sees something across the room

631
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: that absolutely shakes her. She goes white. And that's when

632
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: David comes in with a tray of food. He slides

633
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: this food under the cage and then we see what

634
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: Ellie is terrified of. This is like this smear of

635
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: blood on the floor and a human ear. And David

636
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: realizes he's caught, you know, to a certain degree, you know,

637
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, this is just dear meat, I swear, yeah, and.

638
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: Then he and then he switches tactics. This is how

639
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: which is this man is a master manipulator. He's like, now,

640
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna kind of make a joke about it.

641
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: This is dear meat, like, I'm giving you the good stuff.

642
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 2: Don't worry.

643
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: This is when. This is when the true grooming really

644
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: takes place. He's like, hey, listen, I'm letting you in.

645
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: You're in the inner circle. Now only a few people know.

646
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: That we're eating pop and what is there?

647
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, you join us and you're gonna be part of that.

648
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: You're gonna this is.

649
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 2: So scary because this is the ultimate first step of

650
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: any kind of grooming and any kind of behavior that

651
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: you don't want a kid to follow, which is an

652
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: adult telling a kid I know something secret and you

653
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: can't tell anyone. This will be our secret. So they

654
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: do this here, but they pose it as him telling

655
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: her about them being cannibals, but we know what it

656
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: really is. He's bringing her into his confidence. He wants

657
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: her to feel like she owes him. He wants her

658
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: to feel like there is something she knows that nobody

659
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: else knows. It's so creepy and so well done.

660
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: He says, listen, I'm not proud of the fact that

661
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: we're cannibals. But but you also get the sense that

662
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: he'll do anything to keep himself in control. Oh yeah,

663
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: of his group. That's what this is all. Really, it's

664
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: not about surviving this, it's just about control. It's about

665
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,959
Speaker 1: maintaining his iron control over the people that fall under

666
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: his sway and using them to satisfy himself.

667
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: However, exactly, I also think it's really important to point out,

668
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: like one, eating you know, scientifically people know that eating

669
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: human meat makes people sick because you're not supposed to

670
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: do it. You can catch brain infections, things like kuu whatever.

671
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: So he's not really protecting people. And the bigger issue

672
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: here as we talk about grooming is consent. David admits

673
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: that most people who are eating the meat do not know.

674
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: He did not go out of his way to tell them.

675
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: He'd not pose this as some kind of democratic solution.

676
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 2: Let's be real, in a post apocalypse, you're.

677
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: Do what you have and also at least you do

678
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: bring it up exactly, hey, what do we think, what

679
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: do we think should.

680
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: We do this? And also as well, realistically in Cannibal,

681
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: in a post apocalyptic situation, there would actually probably be

682
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: many cannibals. There might even be a cannibal black market

683
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: of meat and jerky and all different kinds of things.

684
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: But David doesn't care. He doesn't want to democratize it,

685
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: doesn't want to have a conversation. It's about manipulating people.

686
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 2: It's about making people do something that is so taboo,

687
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: so horrific, and keeping it from them. This is all

688
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: part of his game. He enjoys. I mean, look, also,

689
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 2: let's be real, do we really think all the deer's gone.

690
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Ellie found one so easily.

691
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this is.

692
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: This is control. But this is something that he is

693
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: choosing to do because he enjoys it. And he kind

694
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 2: of gets into that as he as he keeps trying

695
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: to groom early, and.

696
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: He keeps saying, you know, you're you're a natural leader,

697
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: you're smart, you're loyal, And then he says, you know,

698
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: I've always had a violent heart. I struggled with it,

699
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: but then the world ended and I was shown the truth.

700
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: And here you you really get the sense that he's

701
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: actually coming clean on a certain level. He is actually

702
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,479
Speaker 1: telling her a secret that the rest of the group

703
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: doesn't know. The rest of the group thinks, uh, you know,

704
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: after the fall of the world, David found God. No David,

705
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: but David's God is the cordysteps and he says, look

706
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: at look at the way. First of all, it's it won.

707
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: And look at the way it won. It's fruitful. It

708
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: multiplies all over the place. It protects itself, it protects

709
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: its children, and it secures its future through violence. Uh.

710
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: And Ellie's like, why are you telling me all this?

711
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: Because you can handle it the way the others can't

712
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: now and you know. He then tells her like, oh,

713
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: I see this an equal you know we're going to

714
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: be partners in this. Ellie asks about Joel, and David says,

715
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, I can I can tell the others to

716
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: stop looking for him. They'd spare him. They do that.

717
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: I have that kind of poll I can do that.

718
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: He places his hand on the bars. Think of what

719
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: we could do together. We could make this place perfect,

720
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: and she moves towards him place. He places his hand

721
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: on hers. Imagine the life we could build. And Ellie says, whoa,

722
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: and then bends his finger back and breaks it. Yes,

723
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: he's stunned. She snaps it. There's a satisfying little pop

724
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: too in the in the in the in the sound mix.

725
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: And then she as he is stunned and kind of

726
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: dealing with this immediate pain, she is trying to grab

727
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: the keys off his belt. He grabs her, knocks her

728
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: head into the bar's concussion number two and she goes

729
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: down and he says, you, let's see what I go

730
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: tell the others. Now this petulant side, now the anger

731
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: coming out. And Ellie says, like, I'm you can tell

732
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: that I'm the little girl who broke your fucking finger. Meanwhile,

733
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: Joel one of the great performances through injury in the

734
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: history of of of sports and performance. He's like Michael

735
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: Jordan's flu game. He's got a gut full of penicillin,

736
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: a stab wound in his abdom but he's going for it, folks.

737
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: He manages to make it a silver lake. He breaks

738
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: into what turns out to be the storehouse that the

739
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: group is using, and he finds some of Ellie's stuff

740
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: and he knows that she's there, uh. And then he

741
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: looks in the other room he sees their horse, May

742
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,959
Speaker 1: she rest in peace. And then he turns the corner

743
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: and sees some boats and then just pass the boats,

744
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: he sees a couple of headless corpses that are just

745
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: hanging waiting to be butchered. Oh shit. Meanwhile, David and

746
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: James drag ally out of their cage and they're about

747
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: to cut her up for real, like that, this is about.

748
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: To Yeah, this is we didn't talk about this yet either,

749
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: like one of my favorite things about this episode. So

750
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: they're in the steakhouse, right, this old restaurant, and they

751
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: actually it's this brilliant piece of production design that outside

752
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: Ellie's cage there's this huge wooden kind of butchering table

753
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 2: that's just covered in little bloody nicks and it's so horrific,

754
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: but it's so mundane in the context of being in

755
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: this butchering steakhouse until you realize what they've been butchering

756
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 2: on it and they're putting on her and I guess

757
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: she's fighting them, I think that, and that's when she

758
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: bites him, right, yes, he picks up the cleaver and

759
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 2: she bites him and she's fighting her life.

760
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: And as they are about to bring this cleaver down

761
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: and start cutting her up, she screams, I'm infected and

762
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: now so are you, and David looks at the bite, saying,

763
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: she's like, hey, roll up my sleeve, take a look

764
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: at this, and they see the trademark. Cordy steps looking

765
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: kind of scar but it's also it's weird, right, it's

766
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 1: clearly healed, and James is clearly absolutely fucking freaked out.

767
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: He's freaking out, and Dave is like, but yeah, but

768
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense. She hasn't turned. She would have

769
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: turned already. And then suddenly, in this moment of confusion,

770
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: it's this is really great. Like if this is just

771
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: a well paced scene where you don't know, like you know,

772
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: usually if something like this has not done well, the

773
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: distraction is very obvious. It seems like there's too much time.

774
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: Ellie just strikes and she grabs the cleaver boom right

775
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: into James's head. James is now dead, uh, and then

776
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: she flees as David is shooting at her. Ellie finds

777
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: herself in the restaurant of the old resort, and for

778
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: people who've played the game, they recognize this setting and

779
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: they recognize this boss battle. I think, for me, probably

780
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: the hardest, it's the hottest actual fight, and for me,

781
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: the hardest fight in the game. Just because I mean,

782
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: it was one very very scary and to that this

783
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: boss incongruously for what the game is just like had

784
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: like clicker level headpoints.

785
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: That's yea, even though he's just a human, just a guy.

786
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: So uh. Ellie now finds herself in the restaurant. She

787
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: arms herself with like a smoldering log. She throws it.

788
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: It lights the building on fire. Now it's starting to

789
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: go up. Uh. And meanwhile, David is completely unfazed by

790
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: the fact that his this place is burning down all

791
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 1: around him, and he is calling to her. He's talking

792
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: to her in this creepy way. He's just obsessed like Boston,

793
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: that this is just like the fight in the in

794
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: the video game. And he's saying, you know, you know,

795
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: he's like calling her name. The fire is spreading. Uh.

796
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: He's he tells her he's going to keep her, you know,

797
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: like now you know what, no one's gonna die. I

798
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: was gonna kill you, You're not going to die now

799
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 1: now I'm going to keep you. I'm going to teach you.

800
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: And he's saying all these really horrendous things to her.

801
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: She lunges. When his back is turned, he swings the cleaver.

802
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: She gets below it stabs him in the side. He

803
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: is leaking. He's really hurt now, but Ellie is also stunned.

804
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: This is her now her third concussion after being knocked

805
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: out for like, you know, an hour and a half

806
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 1: of something. He then climbs on top of her. He's

807
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: he's choking her. He's clearly going to assault her. He says, Oh,

808
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: I thought you already knew. The fighting is the part

809
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: I like the most.

810
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: And he's saying, really, He's like, you don't need to

811
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 2: be scared of my love, my love, it's love.

812
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: You don't need to be here a real guy, you know,

813
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: all the artifice, all the kind of like this good

814
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: warm smiles and Bible verses. Here is the real guy

815
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: he is.

816
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: This is who he wants.

817
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: He really is what he enjoys.

818
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: This is what he lives for. This is why he

819
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: thinks everything happens for a reason, because he's set himself

820
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 2: up in a society where he can do this again

821
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: and again and again, or so he thinks.

822
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: What's so insidious and evil about this guy is that

823
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: he knows that even in this fucked up world, the

824
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: things that he wants will not be accepted by people.

825
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: So he has to use the things that are accepted

826
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 1: by people to get control of them so he can

827
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: get the things that he wants. He understands this is

828
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: all put on to him so that he can get

829
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: to this moment where he's taking whatever he wants from whoever.

830
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: And then in that moment, Ellie just snaps. She grabs

831
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: a cleaver, stabs him with it, and then proceeds to

832
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: chop him up for like a solid five second like

833
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: at least she chopping him up.

834
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: This is like directly from the game too, like she

835
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: is chopping him to the feet from the game like pieces,

836
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: she's getting covered in blood again in the game. We

837
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: have seen Ellie more decisively murder people before this, but

838
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 2: this is a very smart choice to essentially have her

839
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: first real kill be this huge ex explosion of violence

840
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: that is vengeful, that is righteous, that is horrific.

841
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: It's absolutely right. You know what could be more righteous, yeah,

842
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: than defending your own life and body. And she's doing

843
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: it in this moment and in a state that you know,

844
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: you can imagine the adrenaline that's running through and not

845
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: to mention, as we you know, mentioned several times she's

846
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: she's had Yeah, she's not like, she's not okay, you know,

847
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: she's not fully with it. It is just truly fight

848
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: or flight, and she chooses fight and she chops the

849
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: ship out of this guy. She flees, goes outside the

850
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: burning restaurant and Joel finds her, grabs her from behind.

851
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: She's still in fight mode, but he says, look, it's

852
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: it's me. It's me, it's me, and then they embrace

853
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: and he says it's okay, baby girl. And you get

854
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: this the final like it feels like a stone in

855
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: this bridge between them. You know that it truly a

856
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: father and adder kind of relationship. Now the father she

857
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: never had, the daughter that he lost, and you feel

858
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: that like has been built now and through these horrible circumstances.

859
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: And then they head off together. What a terrifying and

860
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: really disconcerting and powerful, really powerful episode.

861
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 2: Definitely the most horrifying episode.

862
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah oh yeah yeah, and it really like, first of all,

863
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: an incredible performance by Scott Shepherds, where you really, you

864
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: know that feeling of if it's too good to be true,

865
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: it must be he the you know, the way he speaks,

866
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: his pattern, the way he would only show his rage

867
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: a few times, his secrecy, and yet like here he

868
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: is this, this man of God who's so secretive. This

869
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: is a great performance in a really, really eerie performance.

870
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: And I do like the way this show and series

871
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: has been structured, much like the game, where we go

872
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: to a place, you know, we vanquish it, we move on,

873
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: and then we never see these people again. But I

874
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: do I also wonder man it would have been. It

875
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 1: would be nice to have a villain, you know that

876
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: like pursues, but it is it's really created this interesting

877
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: tenor and tone and texture of this show where it's

878
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: like one horrifying existential obstacle after another.

879
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think there's such an interesting kind of

880
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: skill that the creative team have showcased here, which is,

881
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 2: you know, they created Kathleen as a new character, right,

882
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: and that is arguably our first big like, oh, the

883
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 2: most dangerous thing isn't the clickers, you know, it's the humans.

884
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: But it's such a different tone and tenor and story

885
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 2: to what we see with David, even though arguably you're

886
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: sending out the same message, and that to me, that

887
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: nuance between Kathleen still had a righteous vengeance of righteous

888
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: anger that she perceived and she knew she was lost

889
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: in it. There was a self awareness there that was

890
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: more of a tragic even though she was a horrific,

891
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: cold blooded killer in the end as we saw. It's

892
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 2: so interesting to me that you can do that storyline

893
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: and then three episodes later you can have another human antagonist,

894
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 2: but that is so different and so scary and so

895
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: completely evocative of a different kind of fear. And I

896
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 2: just think that is such a compliment to the way

897
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 2: they're telling these stories to be able to do that twice.

898
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: The Walking Dead would do that, but it would be

899
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: in different seasons.

900
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: You know.

901
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 2: This is one season where we go from someone like

902
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 2: Kathleen and then we meet David and we see a

903
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: completely different kind of person. And I think something that

904
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 2: I think you're totally right, Like the chapter narrative is

905
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: almost sequential in a way that you know, we talk

906
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: about that with Star Wars, like the story of a week.

907
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: Here it's the location of the week, which is very

908
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: much and then we move on exactly, and I it's

909
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: really interesting because definitely David is so scary and that

910
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: community is so horrifying, but so kind of interesting as

911
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 2: a psychological study. You could have had three or four

912
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 2: episodes there, you could have David be recurring, but that

913
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: narrative choice to just keep moving, to recognize that part

914
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: of the game where you kill someone, you leave, you

915
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 2: move on, you go to the next town. I think

916
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: it's quite a brave choice for prestige storytelling, and it

917
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: really is nice. I'm still every day surprised that they

918
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 2: chose to just do the game in nine episodes. And

919
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 2: it makes me so happy because you could have we

920
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: could have been just getting to Kathleen. They could have

921
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: milked it three seasons, you know, and I just I'm

922
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: always impressed by that choice, and I think it's really

923
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: paying off.

924
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I the other thing about this episode, you knew,

925
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, I never asked myself where the fuck is everybody?

926
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: Else where the hell is? For one, the most of

927
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: David's like fighting men had been chewed up by this engagement,

928
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, like had do you know, like Joel Cara. Yeah,

929
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: and then the rest of them, as we saw from James,

930
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: who was you know, in many ways David's closest confidant.

931
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: They were probably they were on some level waiting for

932
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: some sign that they don't have to do what this

933
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: guy is saying. Anymore.

934
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't.

935
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: Imagine that anybody coming. I think it was. It's actually

936
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: evocative of like his leadership style, that nobody is like

937
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: running towards this brain building to figure out like what's

938
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: gone wrong. Yeah, and I'm probably like, oh good, yeah,

939
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: And I know it's true.

940
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: And I think as well that for the women, the children,

941
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 2: the kind of the citizens, they're too scared. They don't

942
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 2: do anything unless he tells them to. And I actually

943
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 2: think that's really interesting, because you're right, it's evocative of

944
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: the leadership style. But also a lot of times when

945
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: men groom younger women and groom children groom teenagers, it's

946
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: because people their own age will not interact with them,

947
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: will not respect their behavior, their abusiveness. And I think

948
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: in that way as well, David knows that James doubts him,

949
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: he knows that these adult men are kind of turning

950
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: against him, so he's looking to Ellie. He's saying, we

951
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 2: can start something new. You can be my confidence. And

952
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: in that way it evokes that too. I thought the

953
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 2: writing on this was was so well done and so

954
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: kind of devastating and just horrific, but never in a

955
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: way that felt inauthentic. Like it felt true to who

956
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 2: David is in this show, and yeah, just wow and Bella,

957
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 2: Bella really going for that, Emmy. I feel like at

958
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: this point, once we get into like episode eight page obviously,

959
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like he's a shoeing after this.

960
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: Well up, next, let's go into nerd Out, and of

961
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: course we're going to continue our last of US coverage

962
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: right up until the finale. Stay tuned, yea.

963
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you

964
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: love and why, or share a theory that you're excited

965
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: about which you know we love theories, Seth offers an

966
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 2: intriguing Quantumania X Men crossover theory, which obviously we're incredibly

967
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 2: happy to share because we bloody love the X Men.

968
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: So Jason, I will allow you to do the honor.

969
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: Hello, Jason Rosie. Since watching ant Man in the Last Quantumedia,

970
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: I've been wondering about the rebels that we meet in

971
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: the quant Real. Is it just me or does it

972
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: feel like we have been introduced to the MC's version

973
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: of the X Men. Quaskads would be a code name

974
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,439
Speaker 1: for Professor X. There's a Cyclops character who blasts energy

975
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: from his face, a character who uses blades and has

976
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: regeneration skills. And there's also a character that is a

977
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: blob Aka. I'm saying this not Seth. You know, I

978
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 1: immediately thought, oh, that's fucking glob hertman. Yeah. I would

979
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: love your thoughts, Seth. I think while I don't think

980
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: that those are the X men, I think you're onto

981
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: something in that the power set fuelks. Yeah, it did

982
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: feel very pointed.

983
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

984
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: Also, I mean when you in a Marvel context, when

985
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: you introduce a character who can read everybody's thoughts, like,

986
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I think, you know what you're doing?

987
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think as well, something I was really

988
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: interested in. They talked a lot about this being a

989
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 2: kind of Wizard of Oz inspired story where they venture

990
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: into this alternate world, this kind of multiversel plane, you know,

991
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: the quantum realm being so in space and time. I

992
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 2: do wonder and I would love this, Seth. You inspired this.

993
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about this before, but maybe there's a

994
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 2: world where William Jackson Harper is our MCU Charles and

995
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 2: that was just an alternate universe version of him. You know,

996
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: in every universe he has the psychic powers. You know,

997
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: I think as well, I think it's really great that

998
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: you caught onto this, because the truth is they do

999
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: this for fans. They put these analogs in. They say, oh,

1000
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be fun if we had you know, Oh wait,

1001
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 2: isn't this kind of like the Giant sized Crew? Like, oh,

1002
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: what if we just added one more character? So I

1003
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: love that. I don't necessarily think that those are going

1004
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: to be the final versions, but I would love to

1005
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: see a world where we get some kind of recognition

1006
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 2: that perhaps this was some foreshadowing or seeding or some

1007
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: multiversal plane. If not, I just want to see William

1008
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: Jackson Harper come back again because I just think I

1009
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 2: just put him in more stuff, and also him as Charles.

1010
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: I would love to see it, actually, I think that

1011
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: would be fantastic. Thank you so much, Seth. And of

1012
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: course course, if you have any theories or passions you

1013
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: want to share, hit us up at x ray at

1014
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: crooked dot com instructions in the show notes. That's it

1015
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: for us, Rosie any plugs plug blog blog, blub blub

1016
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: blok blug.

1017
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: You can read my last of US coverage at IGN.

1018
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 2: I have some cool stuff coming up at Polygon. You

1019
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: can check out my website Rosie Night dot com. Wait

1020
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: can find all my work and read some cool comics.

1021
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: I am Rosie Marx on a box and Instagram and

1022
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: then obviously here twice a week.

1023
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on Friday, March tenth for episode

1024
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: two of The Mandalorian. And remember we are bringing you

1025
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: to episodes a week every Wednesday and Friday on your

1026
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: podcast deliverer of choice. That's where you can find us twice,

1027
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: the Pedro Pascal twice, the babies twice, the Pedro escorting

1028
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: children across a wasteland. Find us every Wednesday and Friday

1029
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: in your ear.

1030
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: Holes and if you want to see us with your

1031
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: eyeballs as well as listen with your holes, you can

1032
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 2: subscribe on YouTube. We have a very good amount of subscribers.

1033
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: I'm very impressed as thanks to Jason and bringing that

1034
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: channel over. So if you go there subscribe, you can

1035
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: watch full episodes. Stiland does a great job with those.

1036
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: Follow us at xrvpod on Twitter where we're always sharing

1037
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 2: core stuff, retweeting a lot of Pedro Piscal love at

1038
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: the moment, and check out a discord. You can meet

1039
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: tons of amazing fans, all kinds of rad people there

1040
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: talking about all kinds of rad stuff. Some of the

1041
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: stuff is outside of the realm of X ray too,

1042
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: So if you're a little bit of a newcomer to

1043
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 2: the way we talk about, it's just a place to

1044
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: hang out and there's all different kinds of conversations going

1045
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: in there, and me and Jason are in there all

1046
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: the time. It's linked to my letterbox, so there's a

1047
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: whole channel where you can just laugh at all my

1048
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: bad movies that I watch, which people have a lot

1049
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: of fun doing. It's rather joyful. And of course, let's

1050
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: not forget about the need for five star reviews.

1051
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five star reviews. We gotta hell them,

1052
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: we need them. We desperately plead for him. Every episode

1053
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: you got to give him to us. Here's one from

1054
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: jan Hart The Last of Us. I discovered your show

1055
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: through Crooked Media and found the episode about the Last

1056
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: of Us so good and informative. I watched the HBO episode,

1057
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: then listen to your podcast, then go back and watch

1058
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: the episode again with you guys. Five stars all around.

1059
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jay.

1060
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: I watch Jacks.

1061
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

1062
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show

1063
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: is executive produced by myself and Sandy Rhard are editing

1064
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: in sound design, Who's by Vascillis Photopoulos. Dylon Villanueva and

1065
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: Matt De Group provide video production support Alex Rella for

1066
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: Handle social Media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music.

1067
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 3: See you next time for Bye