Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Official Jets podcast, The
Speaker 1: Draft Podcast, presented by PEPSI. We got a great episode
Speaker 1: in store. Former GM of the New York Jets, Mike
Speaker 1: Tannenbaum does work for ESPN. He has his own thing,
Speaker 1: the thirty third Team. He was great. Yeah, he's fantastic,
Speaker 1: and he did a very good job as GM in
Speaker 1: the New York Jets. I think his run here overall,
Speaker 1: sixteen years with the Jets, seven years as GM. Remember
Speaker 1: the last time the Jets were in the playoffs two
Speaker 1: thousand nine, two ten, they came a fraction away from
Speaker 1: actually going to the Super Bowl in Dallas. Would were
Speaker 1: not able to complete that comeback against the Pittsburgh Steelers,
Speaker 1: But that was a hell of a team, that two
Speaker 1: thousand ten team who took down Peyton Manning in his place,
Speaker 1: then Tom Brady in his place, and I thought it
Speaker 1: was gonna be a historical run. Well, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of Jets fans were hoping that it would be
Speaker 1: historical when that team was a lot of fun to
Speaker 1: watch too. Brian Baldinger just put out a breakdown of
Speaker 1: the OH nine Jets, focusing on the offensive line. Thomas Jones,
Speaker 1: Seawan Green Leon Washington, who of course is now back
Speaker 1: in the building as an assistant special teams coach. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's fascinating to see how good that team was.
Speaker 1: And I think Mike offered great perspective of bringing in
Speaker 1: a rookie quarterback, which a lot of people are expecting
Speaker 1: the Jets to do in just a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: here in April's draft. Happen and even Joe Douglas alright,
Speaker 1: it's happening. So anyway, Um, Mike has great inside because
Speaker 1: he's been in the war room. We've talked about a
Speaker 1: lot of things, you know, when do you discuss trading
Speaker 1: up and what types of players do you want to
Speaker 1: surround your rookie quarterback with? And he was great, really,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't want to spoil anything. So
Speaker 1: with that being said, let's hear from Mike Tannenbaum. I
Speaker 1: heard you on the radio the other day. You said
Speaker 1: that Zack Wilson you believe is the right pick for
Speaker 1: the Jets at two. Can you elaborate on why you
Speaker 1: believe that and what does Zach Wilson now bring to
Speaker 1: the table and what you could expect from him as
Speaker 1: a rookie I like him a lot. I think he
Speaker 1: makes a lot of throws that you see traditionally from
Speaker 1: the pocket. Um, but I think what really separates him
Speaker 1: is his ability to make plays outside the pocket. And
Speaker 1: I think his accuracy down the field is really something
Speaker 1: that is unusual. And I think when you look at
Speaker 1: the characteristics of these top five quarterbacks, what separates him
Speaker 1: in my mind to clearly make him the second best
Speaker 1: quarterback is that downfield accuracy. Do you think it's clear
Speaker 1: cut for the Jets right now that he is the
Speaker 1: guy at number two because this quarterback class appears pretty
Speaker 1: talented at the top. Yeah, I mean, I surely don't know,
Speaker 1: but um, it certainly seems that way. And uh for
Speaker 1: me again, I think it's trivial on straw lines. Zach
Speaker 1: Wilson draw line, and that I think is really interesting
Speaker 1: conversation amongst the next three. And then after that, I
Speaker 1: think there's a big line to see who the sixth
Speaker 1: best quarterback is in this draft. You know, with the
Speaker 1: Jets having five picks in the first three rounds and
Speaker 1: a lot of people anticipate Joe Douglass to add either
Speaker 1: playmakers or protection for Zach Wilson, assuming he's the number
Speaker 1: two overall pick in your opinion, Mike, what is the
Speaker 1: more important play there if the Jets were to add
Speaker 1: you know, if they had a choice of a playmaker
Speaker 1: or a protector at twenty three and thirty four and
Speaker 1: so on. Yeah, I think it's offensive line, offensive line
Speaker 1: and offensive line after that, because if you can't protect him,
Speaker 1: nothing else matters. And when I had the privilege of
Speaker 1: being the Jets GM, my first draft was OH six
Speaker 1: and our first two picks were the britishaw Ferguson and
Speaker 1: Nick Mangold, and they were the foundation for a lot
Speaker 1: of great teams that we had, and a lot of
Speaker 1: that was in the formulive years of my career. I
Speaker 1: just saw in two thousand and five we had lost
Speaker 1: two quarterbacks and seven snaps between Chat Payton and j Feeler.
Speaker 1: And when I was promoted to GM, I just we
Speaker 1: there were some other really good players that draft running
Speaker 1: Davis Redney Bush. And my point was very simple, like,
Speaker 1: which is, if you can't protect a quarterback, nothing else matter.
Speaker 1: You can't went on the road, you can't handle crowd noise,
Speaker 1: you can't run the ball, and they know you're gonna
Speaker 1: run it. So unless your offensive line is fortified, everything
Speaker 1: else really doesn't matter. You could run four to four
Speaker 1: one on the outside, but if your quarterback can't step
Speaker 1: up in a firm pocket, if they can't move people
Speaker 1: off the ball when you need a yard or two,
Speaker 1: it's really really hard to win consistently in our league.
Speaker 1: You moved up a couple of times in two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: of course, to draft Mark Sanchez. What changes for the
Speaker 1: entire organization when you take a quarterback in the top five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and we'll see obviously presumptively it will be
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson for the Jets. And I think what Joe
Speaker 1: Dumbans would be doing there with some of what we
Speaker 1: did in OH nine, which is, you know, you tie
Speaker 1: a head coach and a quarterback together. In our k
Speaker 1: so it was Rex Ryan Mark Sanchez, and you know,
Speaker 1: we were fortunate to have success early on with them.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think from a front office ownership
Speaker 1: standpoint is, you know, if you can tie a head
Speaker 1: coach and a quarterback together much the way Robert salom
Speaker 1: and again, assuming it's gonna be Zach Wilson, you know
Speaker 1: you want them to grow together, and that's gonna be
Speaker 1: you know, the face of your franchise. So when you
Speaker 1: can accomplished that and they're both rookies at the same time,
Speaker 1: I think that's great because they're gonna grow together, they're
Speaker 1: gonna make mistakes together, they're gonna fumble out of press
Speaker 1: conference together. There's a lot that they'll go through together,
Speaker 1: and ultimately that just brings them closer together. Um, and
Speaker 1: that's really what you want. Um. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: things that happened, especially when you have these jobs in
Speaker 1: New York. It's it's gonna be times ten. When it's good,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really good. You know, when you lose
Speaker 1: a game or miss a time out or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be, it's gonna be really bad. And those scars
Speaker 1: and life experiences, unless you actually live it, it's really
Speaker 1: hard to explain. But to be able to have a
Speaker 1: partner in a meaningful way that's you in sort of
Speaker 1: like the same place in your career is meaningful and
Speaker 1: in my opinion, ultimately productive. How unique is this place
Speaker 1: New York, in this organization because when you took Sanchez,
Speaker 1: of course he was coming out of USC and you're
Speaker 1: under the spotlight at USC. But it's different coming to
Speaker 1: New York. If the Jets do indeed take Wilson, here's
Speaker 1: a kid who grew up in Utah and he's coming
Speaker 1: to the bright lights of the big city. Yeah, New
Speaker 1: York soft for everybody. I was born there, grew up
Speaker 1: in Boston, and you know, I'm a Northeast person through
Speaker 1: and through, and I guess it was just something that
Speaker 1: I was used to and expected. But you know, when
Speaker 1: you speak to people around the league, Um, some people
Speaker 1: love New York. They embrace it, they could, they love
Speaker 1: to stay there. They love the Northeast. And for others,
Speaker 1: it's just not for them. So there is you know, Eric,
Speaker 1: it's a really good point. You just don't know how
Speaker 1: that's gonna go. And you know where the facility is
Speaker 1: and being in that part of the country in Mars County, like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more options that people perceive it to be. UM,
Speaker 1: but there's no doubt, like Zach Wilson, coming from Provo,
Speaker 1: Utah to New York City is gonna be a big,
Speaker 1: big difference. What kind of challenges do you think that
Speaker 1: the front office had going through not only evaluating quarterbacks
Speaker 1: but every position. Not being able to sit down and
Speaker 1: talk to prospects as opposed to what it's been like
Speaker 1: this draft process, where it's mostly through zoom or solely
Speaker 1: through zoom except for maybe an in person hello at
Speaker 1: certain pro days. Yeah, everyone's deal with that. We speak
Speaker 1: to people around the league that it's just it's difficult.
Speaker 1: And you know, you hear some people talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: the same pick next year is more valuable than the
Speaker 1: same pick this year for that same reason. So it's
Speaker 1: just different and you you have to make the best
Speaker 1: of it. And um, everyone's dealing with the same challenges,
Speaker 1: you know, for being part of the that that's part
Speaker 1: of the process. I love sitting down just hearing people's
Speaker 1: stories and hearing their dreams, and you know their insecurities
Speaker 1: and their fears, and you know what they're trying to
Speaker 1: accomplish and who they're trying to accomplish it for. And
Speaker 1: you're certainly getting some of that through the zooms. But
Speaker 1: it's just not the same. You just do the best
Speaker 1: you Ken. I want to ask you about the trade route.
Speaker 1: In seven seasons the GM of the Jets, you made
Speaker 1: eighteen trades that dealt away twenty eight draft choices and
Speaker 1: eight players on the other side of the coin, you
Speaker 1: acquired fourteen draft choices and five players. What did you
Speaker 1: enjoy most about that um direction in order that you
Speaker 1: used to help your team? Geez, I can't believe you
Speaker 1: made some intern do all that research or I don't
Speaker 1: know how those trades worked out, you know, Yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of those trades did work out. Yeah, some of
Speaker 1: them didn't. The you know, those are the ones that, uh,
Speaker 1: you'll probably keep up, you know, up at night. I
Speaker 1: know for me, like, look, I was raising this business
Speaker 1: by a couple of Hall of famers and Coach Parcels
Speaker 1: and Belcheck, and if I took one thing for them,
Speaker 1: it was it was a mindset which was scour just
Speaker 1: hour every day. You Vinnie test already gets cut by
Speaker 1: the Baltimore Ravens in June, and we have a young
Speaker 1: quarterback in Glenn Foley that we really like. And Coach
Speaker 1: Parcels felt like, hey, you know, Vinnie testa very body
Speaker 1: give us a better chance to win. Or let's addam
Speaker 1: we go the ah Chantonship game that year with Nnie Testaverdy.
Speaker 1: So it was really just more of a mindset, Hey
Speaker 1: let's go get you know, a practice squad player. You
Speaker 1: never know where it's gonna lead to you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's like we signed a guy one time, Austin Howard,
Speaker 1: a former tight end, sign him off for practice squad
Speaker 1: because our propersonal department really liked them. And those are
Speaker 1: things like you're as proud of as much as training
Speaker 1: up for Darrell Rievers or David Howard. Excuse me, David Harris.
Speaker 1: It just it's a mindset of just always trying to
Speaker 1: get better and when those opportunities come along. And as
Speaker 1: relates to draft day trades, you just you never know, um,
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen. Look at Miami, you know we're sitting there.
Speaker 1: The number one player on our board in Steen was
Speaker 1: Laramie Tunsel. We had a very good left tackle in
Speaker 1: a guy named Brandon Albert, and you guys saw what happened.
Speaker 1: You know, Lara Vi Tulsa was a good person. There
Speaker 1: was a video out and we got what we felt
Speaker 1: was the best player in the draft in with the
Speaker 1: thirteenth pick. So you just never know. And draft a trades,
Speaker 1: it's fun, it's exciting, it's nerve wracking, and you sit
Speaker 1: there with your head coach, your owner, um, and sometimes
Speaker 1: you have to make decisions really really fast. What about
Speaker 1: the decision looking back on it, because I know a
Speaker 1: lot of people are hoping that Carl Lawson provides that
Speaker 1: kind of speed and explosiveness off the edge that John
Speaker 1: Abraham did. What went into the thinking there of you
Speaker 1: getting rid of an edge rusher, But on the turn
Speaker 1: you get a guy who is one of the franchise
Speaker 1: is top centers. He becomes one of the top centers
Speaker 1: in the National Football League. Nick Mangle, Yeah, it's funny
Speaker 1: you mentioned that, Eric, because one of the things that's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun about what I do now is
Speaker 1: we're on Get Up and we're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: We're in a production meeting and we're kind of spitballing
Speaker 1: ideas about well, you know, could Sam Donald wind up
Speaker 1: in Seattle? And you know, how does Russell Wilson get
Speaker 1: to Chicago? And I'm like, you just do a three
Speaker 1: way trade? And they're like, oh, you can't do a
Speaker 1: three way trade. I'm like, well, I actually did one.
Speaker 1: And that was something that I was really proud of.
Speaker 1: You know. John Abraham was a guy we just felt
Speaker 1: like we couldn't extend at the time, and Atlanta wanted
Speaker 1: him badly, and we weren't gonna do without a first
Speaker 1: round pick, so they got Denver involved, to their credit,
Speaker 1: and we did a three way trade and it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen often, but that was a win win. I think
Speaker 1: everyone benefited from that. And you know, for us, there
Speaker 1: was three players um that we were looking at um
Speaker 1: at nine and it was just really interesting. It was Marses,
Speaker 1: Louis D'Angel, Williams and Nick Mangel. I'll never forget this,
Speaker 1: so they go right before Nick Um. We were very
Speaker 1: happy that Nick was there. We take him at twenty
Speaker 1: nine and we turned the card and I was sort
Speaker 1: of like relieved, and then I'm thinking myself, like gosh,
Speaker 1: like we just took two offensive line in the first round,
Speaker 1: Like I can't imagine people are gonna be excited about that.
Speaker 1: In the phone rings and it's Ozzy Newsome and Ozzie's like,
Speaker 1: I just want to know you're the luckiest guy in
Speaker 1: the NFL right now. I'm like, you know, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? He said at thirteen it was gonna
Speaker 1: be Nick Mangold or Helodi Nata and it was like
Speaker 1: fift Collodi Nata, Nickmingle. He's like it was a coin
Speaker 1: toss in our room. It's like, there's no way you
Speaker 1: can explain how Nick Mangold could be almost gone at
Speaker 1: thirteen and then be available at twenty nine. And that's
Speaker 1: what happens on draft day. Like if if the three
Speaker 1: of us are having this conversation a month from now,
Speaker 1: I promise you each one of us would be saying like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I can't believe that happened. And you know, I just
Speaker 1: lived in a couple of times. Larye Tunsil is obviously
Speaker 1: an example, but you know, so was mcmingole falling to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the first that draft class in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six historically good. Yeah, that's an amazing story.
Speaker 1: I think that leads me to my next question in
Speaker 1: terms of trades. Let's just say, hypothetically, obviously we know
Speaker 1: the Jets have ammunition to move up. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the thirty third teams draft prospect rankings. I see the
Speaker 1: number one interior offensive lineman Elijah Vera Tucker. If he
Speaker 1: were to slide out a little bit, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: he's in the team somewhere. At what point does this
Speaker 1: become a conversation in a war room, Hey, do we
Speaker 1: want to move up and get this guy? Not necessarily
Speaker 1: Vera Tucker, but a player that you think is within
Speaker 1: reach and you want to go up and get that guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's a great point. I would be aggressive. You know, Look,
Speaker 1: Joe Douglas has done a great job of acquiring picks,
Speaker 1: go use them. I'm a big believer in, you know,
Speaker 1: quality of a quantity when you're convicted about a guy.
Speaker 1: And you know, after Jets we weren't perfect at it,
Speaker 1: but you know again, players like Derrell Rivas, David Harris,
Speaker 1: those were guys that in our minds like check every box.
Speaker 1: And you bring up a guy like Vera Tucker. We
Speaker 1: were watching him last night and it was interesting, like
Speaker 1: some people felt like he could play left tackle. Other
Speaker 1: study was a guard. But point being is, he's going
Speaker 1: to be a guy that should be a ten year player,
Speaker 1: very good athlete, strong, good, low value, flexibility. And if
Speaker 1: I'm the Jets, and that's been let's be candid an
Speaker 1: area over the last several years that hasn't been good
Speaker 1: for them. It's really been a problem. And for them
Speaker 1: to get to where they don't want to go, they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to go on the road to Foxboro, Buffalo,
Speaker 1: Miami and move some really big defense linemen off the ball,
Speaker 1: and I think Vara Tucker is one of those guys
Speaker 1: that ultimately can do that and if you have to
Speaker 1: give up a third round pick to go do it
Speaker 1: by all means because he has the requisite heightweight, speed,
Speaker 1: he has great tape, he's a good kid. And that
Speaker 1: to me like when you can get foundational pieces like
Speaker 1: a Vera Tucker. And I think sometimes this is what happens.
Speaker 1: You sit there and say, like, well, maybe the value
Speaker 1: is really a four. But guess what if you give
Speaker 1: up a third round pick and he's a ten year
Speaker 1: starting no one's gonna care about that. Do you think
Speaker 1: about it in terms of the Jets build right now
Speaker 1: where they're at, they're starting a new Joe Douglas has
Speaker 1: been on the job not even two calendar years. This
Speaker 1: will be the second draft. Obviously you just hired Robert Salo,
Speaker 1: But do you think about it, you know, a long
Speaker 1: term perspective as well with these twenty one draft picks
Speaker 1: over the next two years, because you got the ten
Speaker 1: picks this year, but you do have two first round
Speaker 1: picks next year, two twos next year. I mean you're
Speaker 1: loaded up. You got five picks in the first three rounds.
Speaker 1: So what does he have to do, Joe, not just
Speaker 1: this spring, but over the course of the next couple
Speaker 1: of drafts. It's fortifying the lines. I just believe in that.
Speaker 1: I've seen it. You see the teams that way consistently.
Speaker 1: We go back to the Super Bowl. You know, you
Speaker 1: think about guys like mcole Hardman and Tyreek Kill, Travis Kelsey,
Speaker 1: all the firepower that Kansasy has, they were decimate on
Speaker 1: the offensive line, and look, we saw what happened. So
Speaker 1: until you fortify both lines and can rush the pastor
Speaker 1: with four players like you look at what Robert Salo
Speaker 1: came from in San Francisco, and I worked with Chris
Speaker 1: tick Eric, the defensive line coach in San Francisco, who's fantastic.
Speaker 1: They were able to get there with four Now they
Speaker 1: had great depth of their D line and allowed them
Speaker 1: to move on from DeForest Buckner. They take Javon Kinlaw
Speaker 1: to replace him. They didn't hit on Salomon Thomas, but
Speaker 1: the mindset was there. You can see how they attack
Speaker 1: the lines. Um. Obviously they resigned Trent Williams, they ampired
Speaker 1: Alex Back. You know, that's to me, the mindset Eric,
Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's not about having nine picks
Speaker 1: next year, eleven picks next year. Look, having multiple first
Speaker 1: round picks is great, but I would be attacking both
Speaker 1: lines because that is your foundation. Mike, is there a
Speaker 1: certain list of qualities at certain gms? Are you particular
Speaker 1: look through or look for in the mid rounds? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the fourth round in particular during your
Speaker 1: time with the Jets, not necessarily as just GM talk
Speaker 1: about guys like Brad Smith, Leon Washington, carry Rhads, all
Speaker 1: mid round picks, all good players for the Jets. Are
Speaker 1: there are certain qualities that you look for when you
Speaker 1: hit those mid rounds? Yeah, all those good picks are
Speaker 1: my ideas, just so we could set the reconstrate here.
Speaker 1: Um now, I would say, you know something that coached
Speaker 1: ourselves instilled in me. And we can talk about any
Speaker 1: of those players, but started with someone like Brad Smith.
Speaker 1: They need equality to really like start with and and
Speaker 1: Brad there was a gazillion of them. We were so
Speaker 1: fortunate again as a human being, as a player, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's no finer person that you can meet than Brad Smith.
Speaker 1: But he had incredible production. He was a really good
Speaker 1: athlete with the ball in his hands, and we felt
Speaker 1: like there were a lot of jobs he could do.
Speaker 1: He had third and fourth down value for us. But
Speaker 1: it starts with an attribute. It could be quickness, it
Speaker 1: could be production, it could be sized, but there's got
Speaker 1: to be something that you can build a foundation and
Speaker 1: a story from that. Hey, we take this player in
Speaker 1: the fourth and fifth round. There is a developmental attribute
Speaker 1: about them. You traded for far if he came in
Speaker 1: here eight and three at the time that he variance
Speaker 1: shoulder shoulder injury, shoulder soreness, and the team was not
Speaker 1: the same down the stretch, make the coaching change. Then
Speaker 1: you draft the quarterback. Let's go back to Sanches for
Speaker 1: a second. Oh nine, has a rookie quarterback ever walked
Speaker 1: into a better, historically, better historical situation than the way
Speaker 1: you had set that up? You guys, as far as
Speaker 1: that roster was concerned with that offensive line, the run game,
Speaker 1: and the defense. Yeah, it's interesting about that. Like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I get the privilege of working with guys
Speaker 1: like Damian Woody and Bart Scott. And you talked to
Speaker 1: d wood and he said, you know, in his opinion,
Speaker 1: he felt like that oh a team was, you know,
Speaker 1: our best team, you know, would beat Tennessee. Jeff Fisher
Speaker 1: jumps out of the helicopter. That really piste off a
Speaker 1: lot of people and uh, you know down there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and look, you never know what will happen if Breth
Speaker 1: didn't get hurt. That's just part of the game. Um.
Speaker 1: But it did sort of validate like our belief that
Speaker 1: we had a really good team and there was a
Speaker 1: good foundation there. But it was guys like gaming one again.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the line we felt like, you
Speaker 1: need to tackle. He would did not play a lot
Speaker 1: of tackle the year before in Detroit, and Bill Callahan
Speaker 1: a ton of credit. You know, we really studied that
Speaker 1: one carefully because the market was way more than we
Speaker 1: wanted to pay, and I was concerned from a GM
Speaker 1: perspective that, gosh, like we're extending on a player that
Speaker 1: really doesn't have a ton of experience a tackle. And
Speaker 1: to Damian's credit, he played exceptionally well, better than what
Speaker 1: you could have ever expected. Guy is an unbelievable athlete.
Speaker 1: And you know, to Sanchez's credit, he came in and
Speaker 1: you know took advantage of the opportunity. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: you mentioned d would. I'm just curious a lot of
Speaker 1: this time year. There's a lot of projections in terms
Speaker 1: of draft prospects. Where will this person play at the
Speaker 1: next level? If you play tackle, is you're gonna kick inside?
Speaker 1: And you know, through all different positions. So in terms
Speaker 1: of the old line in particular, how difficult is a
Speaker 1: positional jump from the college level to the pro level
Speaker 1: if you have minor experience. Let's say, if you play tackle.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of a guy like Keevin Jenkins started a
Speaker 1: guard and tackle at Oklahoma State. Just how difficult is
Speaker 1: that switch? And I know it's a player by player determination,
Speaker 1: but what is that conversation like behind closed doors? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a great question. You know, context is
Speaker 1: really important. You know, you take a projection in the
Speaker 1: third or fourth round, you can live to fight another day.
Speaker 1: You take a projection in the first round, Like, that's
Speaker 1: just not smart. And I made some mistakes with that. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, jenkings to me, I like him a lot.
Speaker 1: I like his play tempo. I think he's gonna be
Speaker 1: a really good professional. Um, but I think where you
Speaker 1: take projections is consequential. Yeah, I want you to take
Speaker 1: her with the big board, Donna Strutch. Here, we're two
Speaker 1: weeks out from the draft or the time this air
Speaker 1: is gonna be about one week out from the draft.
Speaker 1: What happens? What are those final stops for you? Um?
Speaker 1: You have critics come in and and critique everything you do,
Speaker 1: like my uh, my fourteen year old just did. Um
Speaker 1: he had more concerns about my mock draft than anybody.
Speaker 1: So uh, you know that to be that's really like
Speaker 1: a really fun part of the process, guys is breaking
Speaker 1: ties and usually it's not ties that ever get to
Speaker 1: the surface. So hey, let's take the three wide receivers
Speaker 1: we have in the fourth round and really try to
Speaker 1: separate them. And that to me, you know, I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed those sort of nuances just to be as prepared
Speaker 1: as possible because I think what sometimes happens is you
Speaker 1: have four thousand reports. And Zach Wilson, I mean we
Speaker 1: can only talk about his wrist surgery so many times,
Speaker 1: or how we heard a shoulder, or when he drove
Speaker 1: back from Provo to go work with John Beck, and
Speaker 1: I mean there's so much out there about him. It's
Speaker 1: really a great story in all seriousness. And he worked
Speaker 1: as a door daft driver and Mother's Day because he
Speaker 1: could get more tips because of the traffic there was
Speaker 1: on that. I mean, he it's a great story. But
Speaker 1: the point is like at some point, like, Okay, we
Speaker 1: got Exac Wilson is a great kid, you know his history.
Speaker 1: Let's spend more time on the lower round picks to
Speaker 1: make sure that you know we're as thorough um in
Speaker 1: that part of the draft, because oftentimes, like that's could
Speaker 1: be the difference between having great depth or not. Are
Speaker 1: there any players in this draft that you just like,
Speaker 1: like they're they're just your guys, whether that's potential first
Speaker 1: round talent or fifth round talent, just a couple of
Speaker 1: guys that you really like for any particular reason. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think sometimes we overcomplicate things. So you know,
Speaker 1: tell you guys like Patrick's or Tan, like, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: if we weren't talking about quarterbacks every ten seconds, it
Speaker 1: seems like he's a great player. Like I don't see
Speaker 1: a hole in his game. I think he's a plug
Speaker 1: and play player and you need a starting corner. You're
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys, like, go put him in and in
Speaker 1: ten years you'll be happy. Um. And I think sometimes
Speaker 1: like we over complicate things. He's a great player, he's
Speaker 1: a good person, he has great ball skill, he's a
Speaker 1: great time to athlete. He's been coached by Nick Saban
Speaker 1: like that those are like to me, like, I don't
Speaker 1: think we've talked about those sort of like situations enough
Speaker 1: where like those are the players to me that those
Speaker 1: are foundational bed rock players at a premium position. Quickly,
Speaker 1: what's the ceiling for Kyle Pitts out of Florida. A
Speaker 1: lot of people are talking about him attering this draft,
Speaker 1: how unique a prospect and playmaker he is. So I'm
Speaker 1: really fortunate. Um. You know, we started an organization called
Speaker 1: the thirty third Team, which is a lot of head
Speaker 1: coaches and gms, and we spend a lot a lot
Speaker 1: of time looking at guys like Kyle Pitts, and it's
Speaker 1: actually also a great way for us to help others
Speaker 1: get started. We have really really smart grad students and
Speaker 1: we put together stuff every week. And you know, so
Speaker 1: we asked that question to candidly. It was we have
Speaker 1: great defensive coaches, so John Fox, Wade Phillips, Eric Mingini,
Speaker 1: guys that are really experienced in defending proof fences. And
Speaker 1: you know that they said, Hey, you know, Kyle Pitts,
Speaker 1: like to a man, was, we're gonna count him as
Speaker 1: a receiver, Like he's gonna have to prove that he
Speaker 1: could block. And what I mean by that is, even
Speaker 1: if he's in line with his hand down at three
Speaker 1: point stance, he's gonna be covered by a corner or safety.
Speaker 1: No one's gonna put a linebacker on Kyle Pitts. And
Speaker 1: at some point Kyle Pitts is gonna have to move
Speaker 1: somebody off the ball or cut somebody off on the backside,
Speaker 1: uh in a meaningful way. Like one of the many
Speaker 1: reasons Rob Gronkowski is a great player or Hall of
Speaker 1: Famer was he was a good blocker, and therefore you
Speaker 1: couldn't cover him with a linebacker, and he was gonna
Speaker 1: overwhelm you, you know, in terms of capturing the edge.
Speaker 1: And I think Pitts is a dynamic player. I like
Speaker 1: him a lot, but I don't think he's this mismatch
Speaker 1: that people think he is. From a standpoint of people
Speaker 1: are going to cover him and defend him like a receiver.
Speaker 1: And again, like to hear it through the lens of
Speaker 1: guys like John Fox and coach Vannginie and Wade Phillips like,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player,
Speaker 1: but I think there's gonna be answers for him at
Speaker 1: our level. Now if you sit there and cover two
Speaker 1: and let him run right down the middle, Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: gonna put up some real tremendous highlight plays. But for
Speaker 1: him to be a great pro, at some point he's
Speaker 1: gonna have to make a block as a tight end.
Speaker 1: They're jumping back and forth here, and you've been really
Speaker 1: gracious with your time. We appreciate you. Mike, your favorite
Speaker 1: story as far as you moving up to get to
Speaker 1: role Reavis, when did you know that, Hey, this guy
Speaker 1: was not just good, he's ridiculously special and um, can
Speaker 1: you just talk about the process of the trade itself. Yeah, so, um,
Speaker 1: you're a guy that had the pro to working with
Speaker 1: for a long time. Terry Bradway, Terry was actually at
Speaker 1: Durrell's pro day, and going back in the number of
Speaker 1: years Durrell played at pitt it was the old Big
Speaker 1: East and that year there just weren't very good receivers
Speaker 1: in the Big East. So the roll was a late
Speaker 1: declaring jr. So there's just wasn't a lot of information
Speaker 1: on the period and then when you watch the tape,
Speaker 1: you just couldn't see him playing against great competition. And
Speaker 1: Terry called me from the airport in Pittsburgh after Durrell's workout.
Speaker 1: He's like, Mike, I'm just telling you, and we needed
Speaker 1: a corner desperately and Aaron Ross from Texas Leon Hall
Speaker 1: were the other two corners. We had a first round
Speaker 1: pick and we felt like we had to come out
Speaker 1: of this with one of those three players. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you. This workout was phenomenal. We watched
Speaker 1: the tape of it and Durrell was the thing that
Speaker 1: may Durrell really special, guys, was people don't realize how
Speaker 1: strong he was. But in addition he had his unbelievable workout.
Speaker 1: His change of direction was crazy. So now you marry
Speaker 1: strength and quickness, and now you have a Hall of
Speaker 1: Famer obviously, and we made what I was able to
Speaker 1: do on that trade was the night before UM, good
Speaker 1: friend of mine GM of the then Panthers, Marty Herny,
Speaker 1: who's out with Washington, I reached an agreement principle with
Speaker 1: him for us to move up. Um. It was for
Speaker 1: a second, I think like a fourth round pick, and
Speaker 1: I think it was elemon spots And basically I'm like, Marty,
Speaker 1: we're coming up for one player. And I'm just telling you,
Speaker 1: like right now, like if we're coming up, here's exactly
Speaker 1: what I can do. Do not ask me for more
Speaker 1: on the clock. This is it. He's like, we'll make
Speaker 1: a deal, but on the clock, don't expect to do
Speaker 1: it for a lesson that. I'm like, no, we've done
Speaker 1: a hundred deals. We have a deal. It's one player.
Speaker 1: If it's done, if he's there, they wanted to move back,
Speaker 1: we want to move up. So as soon as the
Speaker 1: third te pick was turned in, I knew Rivas was
Speaker 1: a jet because I could trust Marty. The compensation was
Speaker 1: locked in, and it was like, you know, it was
Speaker 1: much harder to train for Sanchez than it was for
Speaker 1: Rivas for for reasons that has to do with lead
Speaker 1: rules that we could talk about, but the Rivas thing
Speaker 1: was really locked in the night before. Alright, Mike, as
Speaker 1: he said, you've been so gracious with your time, I
Speaker 1: have one five question for you, going back to your
Speaker 1: mock draft. You have Zach Wilson that too. We've talked
Speaker 1: about the importance of offensive line, you have the Jets
Speaker 1: taking Xavin Collins at twenty three, Why is he the
Speaker 1: right pick for the Jets at twenty three? And could
Speaker 1: you give us a name potentially that you like for
Speaker 1: the Jets at thirty four? Yeah, So, look, mccollins. I
Speaker 1: love his length, I love his versatility. Um, he's a
Speaker 1: good athlete. He's a little bit longer. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a couple of other edge rushers. I like ziz Asulari
Speaker 1: from Georgia. I kind of like those athletic types. I
Speaker 1: think Quitty Pay from Michigan is a great up the
Speaker 1: field pass rusher. I just think Collins and o Lowry
Speaker 1: are those three. Those two guys to me have much
Speaker 1: better movement space. I think I'm really interested to see
Speaker 1: how coach Sala evolves this defense. I think Collins is
Speaker 1: a good fit. And again I liked a little bit
Speaker 1: of a longer guy there, you know, three y four. Look,
Speaker 1: I think at some point the Jets can use it
Speaker 1: back and you know, those guys are kind of clumped
Speaker 1: up there, like Naji Harris. I don't know if like
Speaker 1: at the end makes it there, but like Travis at
Speaker 1: the End from Clemson. What I love about his game,
Speaker 1: guys is he's a great not good. He's a great
Speaker 1: pass receiver. So what I like about that is, like,
Speaker 1: we gotta get Zach Wilson off to a good start.
Speaker 1: If I'm the Jets, just get him the long handoffs,
Speaker 1: like just check the ball down. Let at the end
Speaker 1: make plays in space. And I think if they could
Speaker 1: come out with either like Javonte Williams and North Carolina,
Speaker 1: Naji Harris from Alabama or at the end from Clemson,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're one of those players are there
Speaker 1: at the top of the second, I think that would
Speaker 1: be again through the lens of putting this quarterback in
Speaker 1: the best position possible to be successful, would be something
Speaker 1: to consider. You lad this franchise to a SC championship
Speaker 1: game appearances after the two thousand nine and two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten seasons. We talked a little bit about your
Speaker 1: history today as far as putting a team together just
Speaker 1: from your view watching it from afar, because you're very
Speaker 1: much involved football with ESPN and the thirty third team. Uh,
Speaker 1: do you like the way Joe has gone about trying
Speaker 1: to construct this thing? Yeah? Absolutely, I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think you'd really quible a bunch of what
Speaker 1: he's done. You know, you certainly can have the discussion of, hey,
Speaker 1: should we hold on to Sam Donald and pair him
Speaker 1: with Zach Wilson. You you can certainly say, hey, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna play Zack Wilson and you're one much of
Speaker 1: the way Mahomes didn't, or going back a wild Chad
Speaker 1: Pennington sat for two years behind viding Testimy and not
Speaker 1: really worked out well. It just seems like in this
Speaker 1: day and age, rookie quarterbacks are just being put on
Speaker 1: the field. You know, we saw that with Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: obviously with two uh Justin Herbert played early last year.
Speaker 1: Um so, but beyond that, I would just you know,
Speaker 1: I know Joe's background Baltimore, how much he puts value
Speaker 1: on the lines. I know he's trying to address that
Speaker 1: to a certain extent with George Fan and some of
Speaker 1: the other moves last year. But having all those picks
Speaker 1: is obviously a great place to be. And now it's
Speaker 1: you know about execution and knowing Joe, I'm sure they
Speaker 1: would be very well prepared. What I said, fascinating interview,
Speaker 1: great insight. Was there anything that stood out to you
Speaker 1: in particular? Build it up front, and that's something that
Speaker 1: we're talking about throughout this draft process is how do
Speaker 1: you handle using the tent picks? Um what areas do
Speaker 1: you have to target? Where are your needs? If you're
Speaker 1: bringing a young quarterback, which the Jets are doing, you
Speaker 1: got to build it up front. And that's something that
Speaker 1: Joe Douglas has continued to stress since day one of
Speaker 1: him getting here. His first pick was McKay Beckton, of course,
Speaker 1: and then I think back to two thousand nine, Mike
Speaker 1: moved up a couple of times in order to get
Speaker 1: Mark Sanchez. Mark Sanchez walked into a historically good situation
Speaker 1: because of what Tannon Bomb had done building that roster
Speaker 1: to get to that point. That oh six draft Greens, Brickshaw,
Speaker 1: Furgus and the glasses are coming on round one, number
Speaker 1: four overall overall, excuse me, might just discuss the trade,
Speaker 1: the Man Gold Abraham trade. He gets back in the
Speaker 1: first round, number twenty nine overall. He got Eric Smith
Speaker 1: in the third round, Brad Smith in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: Leon and Washington in the fourth round, Drew Coleman in
Speaker 1: the sixth round, who was a very good reserved in
Speaker 1: the defensive backfield. But what he did with that young quarterback.
Speaker 1: I can't point to a rookie quarterback whoever walked into
Speaker 1: a better situation. Well, so I think that it's a
Speaker 1: great point. And from hearing Mike talked about the O
Speaker 1: eight team, it seemed like a lot of pieces were
Speaker 1: in place. This is a different situation where Joe and
Speaker 1: coach Sala are building this up. But we know that
Speaker 1: Joe's emphasis has always been on the offensive line. And
Speaker 1: maybe this is wrong of me to think, but it
Speaker 1: just feels like there's an offensive lineman or to who
Speaker 1: will be a New York Jet at the end of
Speaker 1: the April twenty nine to make first draft, because when
Speaker 1: you look at what the Jets did in free agency,
Speaker 1: they signed Dan Feeney, but Joe Douglas consistently talks about
Speaker 1: the his will to add through the draft, and it
Speaker 1: just feels like when you marry that up with what
Speaker 1: we know about his vision of the offensive line, it
Speaker 1: feels like there's a move to be made there. I
Speaker 1: agree with that. I think to probably in a low
Speaker 1: one as far as offensive alignment here out of these
Speaker 1: time pics, and then you're gonna look at your undrafted
Speaker 1: free agents, are gonna get on the phones and try
Speaker 1: to sign up some guys and create more competition and
Speaker 1: depth along the line. But yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1: I think right now you have your foundational piece and
Speaker 1: McKay beck. Then what a draft pick that wash Connor
Speaker 1: McGovern ret returns in the middle. He has played guard
Speaker 1: before if you ever went in the center direction. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, as far as the draft is concerned, George Fan,
Speaker 1: I think is gonna be a good system fit just
Speaker 1: because they're gonna ask these guys to get out and
Speaker 1: move and take angles, and I think that works to
Speaker 1: fans advantage. But yeah, Joe Douglas is certainly not done
Speaker 1: adding to that line, and we saw him really fortify
Speaker 1: I thought the wide receiver position. That doesn't mean they're
Speaker 1: not gonna get another receiver here in the draft, but
Speaker 1: bringing a Corey Davis and Keelan Cole uh put you
Speaker 1: in a better spot how you into the draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see how it all breaks down
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. By the time this posted,
Speaker 1: like you said, it might be one week before the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft right around the corner. That's all we have
Speaker 1: on this episode of the Official Jets Podcast, The Draft Podcast,
Speaker 1: presented by Pepsi