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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and this is stuff you should know. Hats off, tribute,

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Speaker 2: even white gloves off, tribute to a true unsung I

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Speaker 2: would say, pioneer in a lot of ways, certainly sung

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Speaker 2: in certain areas and certain age groups, but as far

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Speaker 2: as history is concerned, I'm going to go ahead and

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Speaker 2: say that Ruth Lyons is an unsung pioneer in the

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Speaker 2: history of television.

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Speaker 1: Agreed, And this is good a listener recommendation from I

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Speaker 1: think I've been sitting on this one for a while. Yes, So,

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Speaker 1: for all I know, Nick Bauer gave up on the

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Speaker 1: show and won't even hear this.

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Speaker 2: It's possible it happens.

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Speaker 1: I also should mention that my dogs are over here

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Speaker 1: today and they usually are put away, but they can't

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Speaker 1: be because of work people, So they're laying down now

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Speaker 1: and they're being quiet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but we'll see what happens. Hey, Momos appeared on

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Speaker 2: the show at least once, so I can feel your pain.

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Speaker 2: It's all right.

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Speaker 1: I think we should have a policy moving forward that

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Speaker 1: anytime Moe speaks in the background, Jerry just leaves that in.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm fine with that as long as Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: fine with that, no qualifiers needed.

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Speaker 1: It makes you like a real person like Ruth Lyons

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Speaker 1: strove to be.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't like that, then I strive to do

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Speaker 2: the opposite and seem robottish and wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: No, but I'm glad you introduced this as an unsung

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Speaker 1: hero story because I had never heard of Ruth Lyons.

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Speaker 1: But as it turns out, Ruth Lyons was quite a pioneer,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, I mean, unless somebody corrects us, I

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Speaker 1: would be pretty I feel pretty good about saying that

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Speaker 1: Ruth Lyons invented the format of the TV talk.

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Speaker 2: Show yeah, which really flies in the face of essentially

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Speaker 2: everything you will find in research which credits Joe Franklin,

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Speaker 2: who hosted The Joe Franklin Show, as not only being

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Speaker 2: the first daytime television host talk show host, but having

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Speaker 2: also invented the format. Yeah, and his show is on

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Speaker 2: from nineteen fifty one, get this till nineteen ninety three. Serious,

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Speaker 2: I am dead serious. He recorded twenty eight thousand plus

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Speaker 2: episodes and he never missed.

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Speaker 1: A show, So no shaded Joe Franklin.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all. But you will

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Speaker 2: not find if you look up who invented the daytime

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Speaker 2: talk show, it's Joe Franklin across the board. But we

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Speaker 2: have clear evidence here that our hero of the story,

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Speaker 2: Ruth Lyons, definitely invented the talk show at least two

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Speaker 2: years before Joe Franklin. So yeah, let's get into this,

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Speaker 2: shall we, Because even aside from that that, whether she

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Speaker 2: invented it or not, she was clearly an early pioneer

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Speaker 2: in daytime talk and TV in general. It was also

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Speaker 2: a pretty interesting person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like everything I read about her, it was just

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Speaker 1: like could she get any better? Like every time I

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Speaker 1: read a new thing, it was like she was a

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Speaker 1: super rad lady through and through. But she, like you said,

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Speaker 1: she arrived at the beginnings of TV, because as we'll see,

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Speaker 1: she started on radio and then transferred to TV, but

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, there were no you know, she

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Speaker 1: kind of invented the formula because there were no formulas

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Speaker 1: to follow, and she was like, I mean, not only

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Speaker 1: a pioneer and just sort of being the first to

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Speaker 1: do things and certainly the first woman to do these things,

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Speaker 1: but just all these great ideas like every time she

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Speaker 1: had a new idea for something for the show, it

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Speaker 1: was just like a super cool idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And she not only was a TV pioneer,

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Speaker 2: she was at the onset essentially of radio, So she

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Speaker 2: was there for the proliferation of radio as a mass

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Speaker 2: medium and the same for TV too, So just that

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Speaker 2: in and of itself is pretty remarkable. But yeah, the fact

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Speaker 2: that she was doing this as a woman. And then

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Speaker 2: also not like I'll go out there and host all

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Speaker 2: male colleagues tell me what to do, like she was

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Speaker 2: calling the shots, h and she did it by building

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Speaker 2: up her professional career just by being reliable, trustworthy, charming, interesting,

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Speaker 2: but also like this is kind of how it's going

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Speaker 2: to be. Although I never saw anything so she was

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Speaker 2: described as brash here there, I never got the impression

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Speaker 2: that she was one of those people who was just

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Speaker 2: pushy and like this is the way it is, and

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Speaker 2: never got that impression. And then similarly, she talks a lot.

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Speaker 2: I read her well, skimmed her memoirs, highly readable, by

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Speaker 2: the way, and she talks a lot about herself. It's

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Speaker 2: her memoir but she never quite crosses the line into

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Speaker 2: like boasting, So it's really that's a tough like a

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Speaker 2: tough tightrope to walk, and she manages to do it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, she's just pretty great all across the board.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think brash is a word that was

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Speaker 1: used and it's still used to describe women in the

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Speaker 1: workplace who you know, call their own shots and behave

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Speaker 1: essentially like men might. Yeah. Yeah, take no mcguffins, take

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Speaker 1: no mcguffins. Oh man, why do you have to say

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Speaker 1: that word again? So Ruth was born Ruth Reeves in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh five and Cincinnata, and as you will see,

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Speaker 1: this is a very Cincinnati centric story, as along with

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Speaker 1: some other markets in the area, but that was really

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Speaker 1: her home. And as you will see, she was a

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Speaker 1: big Reds fan. Yeah, even to the point of like

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Speaker 1: getting people to stuff the ballot box for the Reds

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Speaker 1: on the All Star team, which is pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And we should also say one more thing, the

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Speaker 2: pioneer thing. I noticed some things I certainly wouldn't call

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Speaker 2: us pioneers in podcasting that people have been doing it

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Speaker 2: before us, but we were there at generally like the

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Speaker 2: beginning of it kind of and certainly the spread and

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Speaker 2: proliferation of it becoming a popular form of media. So

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Speaker 2: I kind of can commiserate here or there with some

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Speaker 2: of the points throughout her career too. I thought that

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Speaker 2: was kind of neat. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll point them

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Speaker 2: out as we go along. How about that? All right?

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Speaker 1: So she was born in Cincinnati, She had a sister.

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Speaker 1: Her parents were you know, you know, seemed like sort

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Speaker 1: of middle class family. Her dad was a railroad clerk

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Speaker 1: and her mother was a homemaker. Had a very close family.

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Speaker 1: It seems like she was probably influenced some by her

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Speaker 1: paternal grandmother, who was involved in the women's Christian Temperance Union.

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Speaker 1: Because Ruth would never drink alcohol throughout her whole life.

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Speaker 1: But even from a kid, she was, you know, she

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Speaker 1: was like little Eddie Murphy. She was always putting on

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Speaker 1: a show for the family. And if she like got

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Speaker 1: on stage and did something and messed up, like, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't the kind of kid to run off stage crying.

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Speaker 1: She just kind of rolled with it. And that seems

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Speaker 1: to be sort of a formative thing for her throughout

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Speaker 1: her career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And speaking of formative, her like how she was

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Speaker 2: during her formative age kind of set the stage for

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Speaker 2: the rest of her life where she was a feminist

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Speaker 2: in many many ways, but at the same time, she

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Speaker 2: was also totally comfortable with fulfilling traditional women's roles. What's

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Speaker 2: cool is they don't seem to have ever particularly contradicted

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Speaker 2: each other in.

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Speaker 1: Her Yeah, and it also seems like it certainly wasn't stick,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like something that she was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like you. You know, she was an every

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Speaker 1: woman and she even sort of poo pooed sometimes, like

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Speaker 1: you know, the movie stars with their fur coats and

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Speaker 1: like they're basically unrelatable and she I don't think she

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Speaker 1: wanted to be relatable. I think she just was relatable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's well put. Man. So getting back

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Speaker 2: to her bio, she started dating a guy named Johnny

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Speaker 2: Lyons who lived down the street. Knew the way, do

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Speaker 2: you really is this the same guy?

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Speaker 1: I knew him a long time ago, but when I

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Speaker 1: read that, I was like, oh, yeah, Johnny Lyons, whatever

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Speaker 1: happened to that dude.

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Speaker 2: It's a good name, good solid name. He lived down

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Speaker 2: the street and they ended up getting married about eight

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Speaker 2: years after high school, and as we'll see, it didn't

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Speaker 2: last very long. But in the meantime, she went to

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Speaker 2: the University of Cincinnati. I think the Bearcats go Bearcatscats, Bearcats, Bearcats,

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Speaker 2: thank you. And she was just there for one year.

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Speaker 2: She's made it quite a splash while she was there.

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Speaker 2: The first year, she's the humor editor for the yearbook,

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Speaker 2: and she wrote music for the school musical and I

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Speaker 2: think she became a tri delt even she was the

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Speaker 2: one who coined the phrase delta Delta delta, Can I

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Speaker 2: help you, help you? Help you?

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Speaker 1: I saw that coming a mile away.

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Speaker 2: So but she stopped. She dropped out after the first year.

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Speaker 2: Her father became ill. He apparently lost a decent amount

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Speaker 2: of money in the depression, and so her family was

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Speaker 2: kind of hard up. And she's like, I'm really like,

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Speaker 2: nothing I'm doing here is actually going to further my

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Speaker 2: career down the road. I might as well drop out

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Speaker 2: and go find work and help support the family rather

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Speaker 2: than being a drain on the family finances.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. She was also a musician and a songwriter,

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Speaker 1: something she did kind of throughout her career, even though

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Speaker 1: that was definitely like a side gig that like clearly

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Speaker 1: something she loved doing. But when she was young, right

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Speaker 1: after she dropped out of school, she got a job

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Speaker 1: playing sheet music at the Willis Music Company, which was

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Speaker 1: downtown Cincinnati, and she kind of got hipped to the

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Speaker 1: the local music scene, in the radio scene and did

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Speaker 1: other side jobs along the way, obviously to make some money.

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Speaker 1: But she was writing songs this whole time, and in

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Speaker 1: fact wrote song that I wouldn't call it a hit,

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Speaker 1: but her most popular song in nineteen forty six was

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Speaker 1: called Let's Light the Christmas Tree. So she wrote a

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Speaker 1: you know, probably in the area, as well as sort

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Speaker 1: of a classic Christmas song.

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Speaker 2: I g I mean, she took every thing in the kitchen,

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Speaker 2: including the sink that's even remotely Christmas. Eve threw it

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Speaker 2: at that one. There's bells that are peeling along with

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Speaker 2: with a choir. There's children's parts. All of the lyrics

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Speaker 2: are real schmaltzy, like Christmas ey stuff. It's a I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's a Christmas song through and through. It's not great,

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Speaker 2: but it is a Christmas song.

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Speaker 1: Josh's review, it's a Christmas song, yeah, period. So Ruth

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Speaker 1: Reeves got on the radio for the first time in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five, just playing piano along with the singer.

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Speaker 1: But then in nineteen twenty nine, Fate came a knocking

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Speaker 1: and she got a full time gig at WKRC in Cincinnati, Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: and she was assistant to the musical director there, and

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Speaker 1: she was basically, you know, she organized the music, she

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Speaker 1: played piano whenever they needed someone live in studio. And

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Speaker 1: then another faithful thing would happen when the host of

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Speaker 1: a show called The Woman's Hour got sick, she filled

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Speaker 1: in and started ad libbing kind of right away, kind

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Speaker 1: of Robin Williams style, a Good Morning Vietnam. She threw

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Speaker 1: the script out the window, did her own thing, and

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Speaker 1: afterward got called into the manager's office where it is

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Speaker 1: like something out of a movie. She thought she was

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Speaker 1: going to get in trouble and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a hit.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And sadly so as apparently this woman she

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Speaker 2: replaced her filled in for, was out for one day

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Speaker 2: and she came back in and lost her job the

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Speaker 2: next day because Ruth had made such a splash. So

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Speaker 2: she inadvertently took this poor woman's job and went on

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Speaker 2: to not only host Woman's Hour, she added another one

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Speaker 2: called Open House, and then another one, so she's hosting

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Speaker 2: three different radio programs. Third one's called The Woman's View

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Speaker 2: on the news, and she was not only hosting those,

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Speaker 2: she was also still working with the musical director, and

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Speaker 2: very like quickly made a name for herself. And again

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Speaker 2: this is where Johnny Lyons comes back in and exits

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Speaker 2: almost as quickly, because they got married in nineteen thirty two,

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Speaker 2: and shortly after that, Johnny was transferred to Cleveland, and

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Speaker 2: Ruth's like, I'm just starting my career here and it's

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Speaker 2: going really well. I'm gonna stay in Cincinnati. Let's try

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Speaker 2: this long distance. And anyone who's familiar with Ohio geography,

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Speaker 2: the drive from Cincinnati to Cleveland is not a short drive.

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Speaker 2: It's just long enough to be like a long drive,

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Speaker 2: you know, So I can imagine in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 2: it was even harder, and it said to say it

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Speaker 2: didn't quite work out, and they ended up staying married

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Speaker 2: for about seven years, but I have the distinct impression

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Speaker 2: that they were basically consciously uncoupled long before then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it. Very sadly, she kept that name. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Ruth Lyons was the name she started her radio career with,

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Speaker 1: so I think she kept it for name recognition from

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Speaker 1: that point forward, even after getting remarried, as we'll see later.

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Speaker 1: And she didn't really talk about that first marriage a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's not at her memoir. She did say in you know,

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Speaker 1: when she was talking about her second marriage, I think

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Speaker 1: in interviews later on, that she didn't think she would

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Speaker 1: ever marry because she thought men would hate her success.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if that had anything to do

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Speaker 1: with their marriage or if it was just the long

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Speaker 1: distance thing, but at any rate, they got divorced, and

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Speaker 1: maybe that is a decent time for a break.

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Speaker 2: I'd say Ruth Lyons would approve.

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Speaker 3: All right, we'll be right back with more on Ruth

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Speaker 3: Lyons learn.

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Speaker 2: And stuff with Joshua John stuff fu shin up. Okay, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: So we're back. We held the seance in the break,

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Speaker 2: and maybe we did verify that. Ruth Lyons thought it

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Speaker 2: was a great time for us to take a break.

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Speaker 2: So that was great. Yeah, And I said that she

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Speaker 2: had made a name for herself pretty quickly on Cincinnati

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Speaker 2: radio and one of the things that came along that

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Speaker 2: really helps her with that, which I guess if you

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Speaker 2: can ever be helped by a flood, she was. There

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Speaker 2: was a huge flood in nineteen thirty seven. I saw

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Speaker 2: that it was described as up to the street lights,

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Speaker 2: which is a pretty decent sized flood, and it was

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Speaker 2: a catastrophe for Cincinnati. And at the time, again, radio

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Speaker 2: was like really just kind of starting out, and this

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Speaker 2: is one of the ways that it proved itself as

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Speaker 2: a medium where you could help people thoroughly. She stayed

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Speaker 2: on the air essentially for forty eight hours, reading bulletins

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Speaker 2: I think from the local authorities on where to go

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Speaker 2: for help, or how to donate to the Red Cross,

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Speaker 2: or where to go get sandbags, that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And just that right there kind of showed Cincinnati that

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Speaker 2: she was a trustworthy voice to be listened to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know if it was that or

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Speaker 1: just her overall butt kicking at the job, but she

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Speaker 1: got a promotion. She got promoted to program director. This

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Speaker 1: is a woman in the nineteen thirty so she's already

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, breaking new ground and breaking glass

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Speaker 1: ceilings all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just to point out, she had by this time,

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Speaker 2: Venus Fly Traps job, Johnny Fever's job, and Andy's job

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So she was she didn't have Lennie Anderson's job.

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Speaker 2: That's the key there, right, she Hadnie Anderson in about

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Speaker 2: seventeen other people working for her.

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Speaker 1: That's right. One of the other great things she did

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Speaker 1: was worked with kids. She started a Christmas song. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of like a sort of an early version

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Speaker 1: of Toys for Tots. I was in nineteen thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: She put on a show at Cincinnati Children's Hospital and

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Speaker 1: was like, these kids need more than this, and so

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Speaker 1: she found out what was called the Christmas Fund and

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Speaker 1: raised about a thousand bucks from listeners in that first year.

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Speaker 1: And that is a fun that is still going strong

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Speaker 1: today long after she has passed, and I think they

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Speaker 1: do it every year on her birthday. They started up

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Speaker 1: on October fourth, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that was something she had a talent for, was

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Speaker 2: getting people that donate money to causes that she felt

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Speaker 2: were important. You said they raised one thousand dollars that

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Speaker 2: first year in nineteen thirty nine. Four years later they

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Speaker 2: were up to raising fifty four thousand dollars and this

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Speaker 2: is nineteen forty's money, so it was pretty substantial to help.

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Speaker 2: They spread out very quickly after that to include children's

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Speaker 2: homes and other hospitals and other area is that the

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Speaker 2: broadcast reached, like as far as I think Indianapolis. So

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Speaker 2: it was a big deal right off of the bat.

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Speaker 2: And she so, I think nineteen forty two. She's been

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Speaker 2: doing this for about ten years, a little less, no,

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Speaker 2: about ten years, and she made a move to a

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Speaker 2: different radio station. They offered the plum can't turn it

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Speaker 2: down deal of an extra ten dollars a week over

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Speaker 2: what she was making at her original station, and she

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Speaker 2: said sold. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think this had more to do with getting out

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Speaker 1: to more voices because Crossley Broadcasting was broadcast in several

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Speaker 1: more markets than just local Cincinnati radio. So the station

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Speaker 1: definitely like publicized on her notoriety at that point. And

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Speaker 1: they said, let's have a contest where we have listeners

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Speaker 1: right in to name her new show. The name wasn't great.

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Speaker 1: They came back the winning one was a Petticoat party line.

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Speaker 1: She added more show that because that's what Ruth Lyons does.

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Speaker 1: She added a morning show called the WLW Consumers Foundation,

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Speaker 1: And this one was like gangbusters with the company because

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Speaker 1: it was great for advertisers and that they had a

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Speaker 1: couple of hundred women test out products and then come

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Speaker 1: back on the air and report what they found out.

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Speaker 1: So advertisers always loved her. They kind of gussied it up.

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Speaker 1: She added music and then games and eventually changed that

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Speaker 1: terrible name to Morning Mattinee, much much better name, and

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Speaker 1: also had a game show called Collect Calls from Lowenthal's,

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Speaker 1: which was a first.

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Speaker 2: Store, right, and if you kind of go back and

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Speaker 2: look at the Morning Matinee in addition to you know,

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Speaker 2: having women test products and then come in and say like, well,

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Speaker 2: this is what I thought of this, adding music and

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Speaker 2: games that kind of stuff, like all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: it's starting to take like a morning show format. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: for sure, you can start to see the contours of

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Speaker 2: it just kind of coming into view here or there.

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Speaker 2: And she one of the things she did was she

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about this a little more later, but she

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Speaker 2: was really good at just understanding that you need ad

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Speaker 2: revenue to survive and that you're going to make more

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Speaker 2: ad revenue and also keep your viewership if you are

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Speaker 2: forthright and honest about your advertisers. And so one of

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Speaker 2: the things she did was she would turn down. She

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Speaker 2: negotiated the ability to say Nope, not them, I don't

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Speaker 2: believe in their product, because, like her ads were all endorsement.

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Speaker 2: So for her as a very ethical person. She didn't

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Speaker 2: do any endorsements that she didn't personally believe in, which

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Speaker 2: was a big deal, especially at the time, and also

351
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Speaker 2: led her to tons of disagreements and headbutting with the

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Speaker 2: ad sales department, but she would typically win because that's

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Speaker 2: how powerful she had become again as a woman in

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Speaker 2: broad casting it in the forties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, she, you know, I mentioned earlier, she got

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Speaker 1: married again. She married a guy named Herman Newman this

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Speaker 1: time who was a semantics professor, and he was a

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Speaker 1: big liberal guy, progressive guy, which meant that he didn't

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Speaker 1: mind her having a lot of career success. He was

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Speaker 1: very supportive of her and which was awesome and I

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Speaker 1: think aligned with her political values as well as we'll see,

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Speaker 1: you know, with some of the things that she did.

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Speaker 1: They had one kid in nineteen forty four. It was

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an unusual situation and that they

365
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Speaker 1: announced the birth of young Candace, who they called Candy.

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Speaker 1: Later on people found out that she very sadly suffered

367
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Speaker 1: a still birth at six months and adopted an orphan newborn.

368
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Speaker 1: At the time that she had lost her her own baby,

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Speaker 1: So she didn't, you know, she didn't cover it over

370
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Speaker 1: or anything, but she didn't come right out and say it.

371
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Speaker 1: But everyone knew the timeline of her pregnancy, so you know,

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Speaker 1: you could probably figure it out if you were paying

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Speaker 1: attention right right.

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Speaker 2: So, Yes, and Kandy became their beloved child like like

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Speaker 2: she was just that. Her parents absolutely adored her, and

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Speaker 2: she would go on to kind of make appearances here

377
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Speaker 2: or there on the radio show and then later on

378
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Speaker 2: the TV show. And I guess she made her first

379
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Speaker 2: appearance at six weeks old on the MICYK for Morning Mattinee. Yeah,

380
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Speaker 2: her quote was you. So she came up with another program,

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Speaker 2: Ruth did. She said, Hey, guys, I got a great idea.

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Speaker 2: There is a there are a lot of women out

383
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Speaker 2: there who haven't and may never have the chance to

384
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Speaker 2: have a really fancy luncheon at a nice hotel downtown.

385
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Speaker 2: So we're not only going to give them that opportunity,

386
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Speaker 2: we're going to make a show out of it. And

387
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Speaker 2: she called this the fifty Club because there was room

388
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Speaker 2: for fifty paying customers. You paid a dollar each was

389
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: about eighteen dollars to day to have a smashing lunch

390
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Speaker 2: at the Gibson Hotel and after lunch you were treated

391
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Speaker 2: to her radio show, you were part of the studio audience,

392
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Speaker 2: and it was a smash hit right out of the gate.

393
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Speaker 2: They ended up selling tickets to the thing. They would

394
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Speaker 2: sell them in three and four year chunks at a time.

395
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so big that they had to double the

396
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Speaker 1: audience and get a new venue. And so that's why

397
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Speaker 1: her show ended up being called the fifty to fifty Club.

398
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: Pretty smart to keep that fifty in there instead of

399
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: calling it the one hundred club or the seven or

400
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Speaker 1: the club.

401
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 2: That's right, that's a lot of studio audience.

402
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So in nineteen forty nine, they said, you know what,

403
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Speaker 1: the fifty club is going great. Fifty fifty clubs even better.

404
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: So let's make this thing a TV show, because that

405
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Speaker 1: radio station also had a TV counterpart. And she was like,

406
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Speaker 1: I don't know about this, Like I'm a radio person.

407
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: I don't like these studio lights. They get really hot.

408
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't like, you know, I feel like I could

409
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Speaker 1: be more myself without this camera in my face, especially

410
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: with these interviews I'm doing with people. And you know,

411
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: she was flying off, you know, flying by the seat

412
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Speaker 1: of her pants and sort of off the cuff on

413
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Speaker 1: the radio and wanted to do that on TV, but

414
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Speaker 1: that's a bigger problem for TV because of lighting and

415
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: blocking and stuff like that. So it was all a

416
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: bit of a challenge. But you know, she got on TV,

417
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: and of course immediately executives started saying, like, you need

418
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Speaker 1: to lose weight, lady.

419
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Speaker 2: She said in her memoirs that she had gained a

420
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Speaker 2: bunch of weight from all the delicious pies and cakes

421
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: she ate at lunch at the Gibson every day. Sure so, yeah,

422
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: So there was one other thing that she had a

423
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: complaint about with being on television. She said that the

424
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Speaker 2: engineers are in complete control, which was a reversal of

425
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Speaker 2: what she was used to in the radio studio. She said,

426
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Speaker 2: one even wore a beret with an exclamation point and everything.

427
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: So she ends up because she's an overachiever. Clearly, we've

428
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: established this at this point. She was program director at

429
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: w LW, and so all of a sudden she has

430
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: authority on television as well, after she had already sort

431
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: of asserted herself on the radio for you know, quite

432
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: a while at this point. But you know, like I

433
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: said earlier, she was inventing the model. She couldn't look

434
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Speaker 1: to other shows to see what people were doing. Also,

435
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: not a lot of people were watching This was a

436
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, very early in the days of TV. I

437
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 1: think the whole station in nineteen forty six was a

438
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: bit of an experiment. So not a lot of families

439
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: had TV sets in the early nineteen fifties, which was

440
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: kind of good. It was kind of like us in

441
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: a way starting out with podcasting, Like we weren't very

442
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: good for a while, but not a lot of people

443
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: were listening to podcasts, so you had a lot of

444
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: room to sort of grow and learn the craft, just

445
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: like she did exactly.

446
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: That was definitely one of the things that came up

447
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: that I was like, yeah, I can totally identify with that.

448
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: That's certainly how we managed to kind of get along

449
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: at the beginning, right.

450
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

451
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: One other thing I noticed at the time TVs were

452
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: so new, this is the early fIF fifties that she

453
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 2: was making these TV shows, that a lot of people

454
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: had to stand around often outside furniture stores, just like

455
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: you see in movies to watch a TV show from

456
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: one of the models on display in the front window.

457
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: And that's just like podcasting. People used to stand outside

458
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 2: of furniture stores to listen to podcasts. You can make

459
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: a really good case that Rooms to Go is at

460
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: least as important as in podcasting as Apple is.

461
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: So she's crushing it on regional TV now, so much

462
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: so that NBC is like, hey, we want to take

463
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: you national. It would be the first national daytime talk

464
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: show hosted by a woman, obviously, because it's nineteen fifty

465
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: one at this point. And they did. They put it.

466
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: It was literally less than a year. They put it

467
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: on the across the country for eleven months, I think,

468
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: and it seems like it basically stopped because she didn't

469
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: want to move to New York. They said, hey, why

470
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: don't you come to New York give it more of

471
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: a sort of a national appeal because you're there in Cincinnati.

472
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: Nobody cares in nineteen fifty one about the show out

473
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati across the country. So they said, she said no,

474
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: She said, I want to stay here, and so she

475
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: went back to the Crossley market, which was I think Indianapolis, Columbus, Dayton,

476
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: and of course Cincinnati.

477
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 2: Yes, and so there's something really important to know about that.

478
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: So she stayed true to her roots. But she didn't say, like,

479
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: I don't really want to make it big time. I

480
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: just want to go stay in Cincinnati, New York scares me.

481
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: Despite going back to being a local or regional talk show,

482
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: she was. She had the highest rated daytime program in

483
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: the country right from nineteen fifty two to nineteen sixty four.

484
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: Even national, nationally broadcast talk shows could not beat her

485
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: ratings in basically four markets.

486
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, she had seven million viewers over that

487
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: time span. That's an incredible amount, like in the early

488
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: days of TV especially, I mean, that's a lot now.

489
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: But you know, her audience was growing because it was

490
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: also broadcast on the radio, so she had even more

491
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: people listening there, and they were reaching sort of across

492
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: the Midwest with the radio by that point. And she was,

493
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: like I said, she was always a sort of a

494
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: beloved figure for advertisers, so she was making a ton

495
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: of money for the company, and tickets were selling out

496
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: four years in advance to come to the studio audience, right.

497
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. One other thing I saw is that she mentioned

498
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: that it was kind of common for school kids to

499
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: go home during lunch and watch the show with their

500
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: mother in the middle of the day. And it turns

501
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: out one of those little kids and this is totally genuine.

502
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm not making a joke. Here was David Letterman who

503
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: credits Ruth Lyons as intracing him to the entire concept

504
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: of a talk show, and yeah, she was one of

505
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: his inspirations.

506
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

507
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: So too.

508
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: She also inspired a lot of people to get color

509
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: TVs because in nineteen fifty seven, it was one of

510
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: the first shows in the region to air in color,

511
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: and people wanted to see everything in color. They want

512
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: to see Ruth lines in color, so they bought up

513
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: so many color TV sets in Cincinnati that it became

514
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: known as Colortown USA for a while. And she didn't

515
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: love to switch to color. They hired a makeup artists

516
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: to you know, kind of help her through that transition,

517
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: and she didn't like that. She didn't like the foundation

518
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: they put on her. So in a very Ruth Lion's way,

519
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: she turned that into a bit and had the artists

520
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: do makeover for her, like in front of the audience

521
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: and then have the audience vote about, like which look

522
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: they liked better.

523
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they sided with her, of course. So let's

524
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the show format you want.

525
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: To Yeah, I mean, it was a straight up talk show.

526
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: It was. There were some So again this is not

527
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: like she's like I want to be I want to

528
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: do what Kathy Lee and Hoe to do, or I

529
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: want to do what Kathy Lee in Regis did. She

530
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: they based their stuff on her. So one of the

531
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: things that she did that definitely became a thing, especially

532
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: in the next couple decades seventies eighties. The studio, the

533
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: set looked like a living room. It was meant to

534
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: be comfortable, like she was inviting the viewers and the

535
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: people she was interviewing into her home, just to kind

536
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: of make it that much more casual and laid back. Right.

537
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: And she also this is different that never got picked up.

538
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: But her interview seat, in the seat she normally sat in,

539
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: was a love seat that was also a rocking chair.

540
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: Love those rockers a rocker loves seat. Though you don't

541
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: see that very often, even Rooms to Go only has

542
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: a few of them.

543
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: We have outdoor versions of those that are called gliders.

544
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, sure, maybe that's why I was having trouble

545
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: conceiving of what it was. It's a glider.

546
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love those gliders. But if you've ever seen

547
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: a picture of Ruth, you know there's not a ton

548
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: of stuff out there, sadly, but a lot of times

549
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: you might see her holding on stage a bouquet of

550
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: flowers and with a guest, and you I think, well,

551
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: that's an odd thing to do, or maybe she's just

552
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: giving flowers. She actually had her microphone inside the bouquet

553
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: of flowers. That was her thing, which I think is

554
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: just a very sort of lovely thing to have on television.

555
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: It is, It's pretty cool. I actually did see some

556
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: pictures of her, and there's one from I think she

557
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: was about thirty years of age, something like that, and

558
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: she is the spitting image of a cross between nineteen

559
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: eighties peak cute Meg Ryan and the bride from the

560
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: New Maggie Jillenhall movie, but without the ink blot on

561
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: her face. Oh okay, I mean just per like if

562
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: you put those two together fifty fifty percent, you would

563
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 2: have Ruth Lines at age thirty.

564
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: All right, we'll let the public decide, okay. So she stayed,

565
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, with her sort of off the cuff thing.

566
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: That was just what she was known for in her career.

567
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: And you know, she played it very loose, which for

568
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: TV now would be sort of a nightmare. But at

569
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: the time, like you said, no one knew what they

570
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: were really doing, so they just kind of rolled with it,

571
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: but they would put, you know, various male sidekicks alongside her.

572
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: Over the years. Was always her show, though, and she

573
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: had some real heavy hitters. That was even though it

574
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: was regional. Like we said, she had a ton of viewers.

575
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: So I mean, she had Sammy on the show. She

576
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: had Duke Ellington, Bob Hope, Phyllis Diller, the Smothers Brothers,

577
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: Carol Channing, she had a horse on stage. She had

578
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: Ry Rogers and Trigger at one.

579
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: Point, Yeah, Peter Paul and get this Mary Yeah came

580
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: and performed Clara Bell the Clown from Howdy Doody. Who

581
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: I didn't know this, but the first person who played

582
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: Clara Bell the Count was Captain Kangaroo.

583
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

584
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: So yes, that's just like a slight list of it.

585
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: If you read her memoirs, like the entire middle part

586
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: is just story after story about the different like celebrities

587
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: she met and like interview and what they were like.

588
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: And she's got some pretty pretty interesting stories. I would

589
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: encourage anybody to go read her memoir Remember with Me

590
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty nine and on the cover it's got

591
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: a cute little like a bouquet with a microphone sticking

592
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: out of it. So we're not going to get into

593
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: that much. I would just say, read the read the book, okay.

594
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, get out there. I think you can just get

595
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: it online, right you can.

596
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: Yes, there's like a PDF out there of scan I mean,

597
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: I don't know who does this. People who literally change

598
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: page after page and scan entire books. And you can

599
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: tell it's a person too, because every like third or

600
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: fourth page is like kind of diagonal because there wasn't

601
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: flat enough for the scanner. So God bless people who do.

602
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: That, oh for sure. So you know, we talked about

603
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: her show being financially successful because of the advertisers, but

604
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: she had an odd way of dealing with advertisers that

605
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: people seem to love. She didn't love just regular sort

606
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: of boring ad copy. She liked to kind of make

607
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: things up and ad live and I don't know, I mean,

608
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: the sponsors kept coming back, even though at times she

609
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: was even bagging on the sponsors, so it must have

610
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: worked just to get attention. There was one example where

611
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: she was talking about a food product that they said

612
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: was big brownie, bold and brave. It would make kids

613
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: big brownie bold and brave. And she said, yeah, the

614
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: next V word that comes to mind is baloney. So

615
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: she would definitely give guff to like the people that

616
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: were paying her money.

617
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: Which is interesting, sure, yeah, a lot, like some podcasts

618
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: read their stuff today.

619
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, other shows do that. We've been told we can't

620
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: do that.

621
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: No, No, it's interesting though.

622
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: I hear it all the time. I'm like, well, how

623
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: do they do it?

624
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: But whatever, Yeah, it's it's kind of a thing where

625
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: one of the rare ones that don't do it like that.

626
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right.

627
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: There's another great anecdote about the cloud that she had.

628
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: As far as advertisers go, there was a a can

629
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: or a brand of canned vegetables that bought a ten

630
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: week add by on her show and from number seven

631
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: to number one. And I looked into the brand. It

632
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 2: was Black Brand canned broccoli clouds and Bachulin Squeezings. I mean,

633
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: she took that from number seven to number one.

634
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I think, well, it's time for a late

635
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back and finish up with

636
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: Ruth Lions.

637
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: Learn and stuff with Joshua John Stuff fu shin up.

638
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: All right, So finishing up with Ruth Lyons, you know,

639
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: we talked about the fact that she always said that,

640
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, in her words, she was just a housewife

641
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: with a radio program, all in an effort to be

642
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: relatable to people that were watching her. The audience called

643
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: her mother, her staff, and everyone there called her mother,

644
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: which I think is like super kind of cool. And

645
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: she would, you know, she would get on the air

646
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and talk about housekeeping and stuff like that, which sponsors

647
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 1: obviously loved, and then sometimes she would turn that into

648
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: a bit like when her housekeeper quit, she brought in

649
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: her husband's laundry and had an ironing contest for the audience,

650
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: which of course incorporated spray starch as an advertiser.

651
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, she did what you would call integrated advertising today,

652
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: like where people just suddenly you realize they're talking about

653
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 2: a product and it's not actually part of the show.

654
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 2: She kind of did stuff like that which we don't do.

655
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: No, I mean people, I think people accused us of that.

656
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: When I talked about KFC recently, I was like, I

657
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: just like KFC.

658
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: Or the whole pepsi ad that we did that we

659
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: said at the beginning was an ad seemed to have

660
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: confused people a lot too, So we still don't do

661
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: integrated advertising everybody.

662
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: That's right. So she wasn't without her detractors, of course,

663
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: because she was a woman on the air. Just like today,

664
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: you're going to have people that are going to be

665
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: picking apart her appearance in nineteen sixty Ladies Home Journal

666
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: of all places, there was a reporter named Betty Hannah

667
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: Hoffman who said that she has a bad slouch and

668
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: a sandpaper voice. And someone from that story, it was

669
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: an anonymous source, said she was a very dominating kind

670
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: of woman. She needles and browbeats the men on her program,

671
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: and this delights the housewives. You know, again, I think

672
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: this is all just coded language for somebody having fun

673
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: on the air. And maybe if she was poking fun

674
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: of men on the air to the delight of housewives,

675
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that was the thing she did,

676
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: because that's funny, it's comedy.

677
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, I think that's kind of what I was

678
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: talking about at the beginning. That some people were like,

679
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: she's a little brash or whatever, but they didn't know

680
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: what they were talking talking about. They were just being Cattie,

681
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: that's right, And you had said earlier too, that she

682
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: was one of those people where the more you found

683
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: out about her, the better she kept go getting. And

684
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: I'm sure that this is one of the things that

685
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: struck you because it did me as well. But I

686
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: think in nineteen fifty two, she had a singer on,

687
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: a black singer named Arthur Lee Simpkins, who was performing

688
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: in town. She'd seen him perform the night before with

689
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: her husband, and she invited him to be on the

690
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: show the next day, and she noticed that while he

691
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: was singing his first number that he looked very nervous.

692
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: So she went over to him and started dancing with him,

693
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: and they danced for a couple of minutes, and then

694
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: he did some more performances and loosened up and everything

695
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: was great. Well, that caused quite a scandal because a

696
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: white woman danced on television with a black man. And

697
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: this again was nineteen fifty two, And apparently while she

698
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: was doing this, it didn't even occur to her that

699
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: this was going to be a thing that was kind

700
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: of how she was as a person. But she got

701
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: a lot of pushback about it, and then simultaneously she

702
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 2: got a lot of like kudos and thanks for just

703
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: basically I saw one woman wrote that that she demonstrated

704
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 2: heartfelt love for another human being without being hampered one

705
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: bit by the color of his skin. And she didn't

706
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: shrink from that controversy at all, Chuck. She came on

707
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: the next day and spent fifteen minutes talking about how

708
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: there was nothing wrong with what she had done.

709
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty great, like very publicly. She was

710
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: also very supportive and tried to advance to the careers

711
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: of other women on her staff. And we definitely should

712
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: mention Elsa Sewele, who was the executive director for her

713
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: show from nineteen forty four until she retired from the show.

714
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: So it was one of those things where she was

715
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: sort of like our Jerry. She wasn't on camera, but

716
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: she talked to her off camera, so everyone knew who

717
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: Elsa was, and you know, she ran the contest. She

718
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: even wrote some of the songs, some of the charity

719
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: songs that Ruth Lyons performed, and she kept working there

720
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: after Lyon's retired. She worked as associate producer for The

721
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Bob Bron Show because Bob Bron would take over. He

722
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: was one of the sort of sidekicks that they used

723
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: he would take over after she retired.

724
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one more thing about her, she sho's pro

725
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: union too.

726
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. She you know, the musicians went on strike

727
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: at a certain point, and she was like, oh, wait

728
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: a minute, I'm a musician. I've always thought of myself

729
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: as a musician as well, so I'm going to go

730
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: on strike with these people. And the station immediately pulled

731
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: back and was like, oh, oh, oh, well, we can't

732
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: have that.

733
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 2: So they gave in, right, all right, So you said

734
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: that she retired. She ended up retiring I think in

735
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven, but that was after a few really

736
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: hard years that began in nineteen sixty four, starting with

737
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: the death of her sister, Rose Reeves Lupton, who also

738
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: who was a coworker of hers, also a WLWT, and

739
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: she had been living with cancer for ten years and

740
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: succumbed to it eventually again in nineteen sixty four, and

741
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: that was kind of the beginning of a bunch of

742
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: hardships that she faced.

743
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was it was really tough. She had a

744
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: stroke herself, a very minor stroke, but it was enough

745
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: that she felt like she needed to take a break

746
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: for a little while, just a few weeks after that

747
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: and this is just brutal. Her daughter, Candy, at twenty

748
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: years old, was diagnosed with breast cancer, had a mastectomy,

749
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: and she thought about retiring. At the time Ruth Lyons did.

750
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: She was like, I just don't you know, this is

751
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: just too much. But Candy wouldn't have it. She was like, no,

752
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: you got to keep doing the show. This is your life.

753
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: She started coming in more and more on the show

754
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: as a regular guest, and as she got worse, it

755
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: was pretty clear that she, you know, it was a

756
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: terminal case. So in nineteen sixty six, they took a trip,

757
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: a family trip to Italy, and that was sort of,

758
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, the last trip they would take. I think

759
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: they knew that going in and very sadly, Candy passed

760
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: away just at twenty one years old in June of

761
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: that year.

762
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the trip on the ship they were taking,

763
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: and it was very sad, and the public grieved with

764
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: her because, you know, just like other parts of her life,

765
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: she shared that whole tragedy with Candy with them as

766
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 2: as it played out, and that was that was pretty

767
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: much it. Like she came back and she was she

768
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: tried to kind of keep going, but she'd miss a

769
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: lot of shows, and when she was there, she had

770
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: trouble just doing what. She wasn't herself any longer after

771
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: Candy died, and so the writing was on the wall

772
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: to her, and she retired officially the next year after

773
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: Candy died. She was sixty. She had been doing this

774
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: for decades by then, and she couldn't bring herself to

775
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: tell the public that she was retiring, so she had

776
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: the station's vice president announce it, and apparently even the

777
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: crew hadn't hadn't been informed before then.

778
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, super super sad for the for the audience, for sure.

779
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: But she wrote that book that you talked about. She

780
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: also wrote a song book called Sing a Song in

781
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. But she never got on TV again.

782
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: She was asked a lot, of course, everyone one wanted

783
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: her to come on TV and be on their show,

784
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: but she never did it again. She was the honorary

785
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: chairman in nineteen seventy two for the Save the Terminal campaign,

786
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: which rescued the Art Deco the beautiful Art Deco Union

787
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: Terminal in Cincinnati because they're going to tear that down.

788
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: So that was kind of one of her big public

789
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: final acts. But she would go on to live for

790
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: a while. She passed away at the age of eighty

791
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: one and nineteen eighty eight.

792
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one last footnote. The nineteen fifty seven Major

793
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: League Baseball All Star Game heavily stacked with Cincinnati Reds

794
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: players who were outmatched by plenty of other players around

795
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: the league, but they had gotten more votes because this

796
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: is when the public voted, i think for the first time,

797
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: and that was because, like you said, Ruth Lyons had

798
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: led a stuff the ballot box drive to get as

799
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: many Reds players on the All Star Our team as

800
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: possible because she was a huge fan.

801
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: That's right, Go Reds. I've always liked the Reds.

802
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: Sure. Remember Eric Davis, he was awesome. Yeah yeah, Okay,

803
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: Well that's it for Ruth Lyons again, hats off to you.

804
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: White gloves off and I think, Chuck, it's time for

805
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: listener mayw. Yeah.

806
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: This is one of those cool things that happen sometimes

807
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: where somebody we reference on the show, maybe someone who's

808
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: written a book or something, writes in because they heard

809
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: it and this is great. This is from Stephen Kursey,

810
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: who wrote the nonfiction book The Quiet Zone, and he

811
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: listened to our episode on the National Radio Quiet Zone

812
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: and had a correction. He said, the National Security Agency

813
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: remains very much active at Sugar Growth station, guys, which

814
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: means the NSA Defense Department remains a major unseen force

815
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: and influence behind the National Radio Quiet Zone. You guys

816
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: cited an old news story about Sugar Grow being partly

817
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: sold off, which is accurate. The US Navy had ended

818
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: most of but not all, of its operations in sugar

819
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: Grove and much of the military housing community was put

820
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: up for auction in twenty sixteen, but I don't know

821
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: if it actually sold. In any case, the government retained

822
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: ownership and usage of the highly secretive classified radio antennas

823
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: at Sugar Grove, which are up a guarded mountain holler

824
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: that is out of public view. However, you can see

825
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: the facility if you go up another mountain road, as

826
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: I've done. That's Stephen talking. You can also see the

827
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: facility and it's half dozen antennas on Google Maps. The

828
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: Intercept did an excellent piece on Sugar Grove in twenty seventeen.

829
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: I still have contacts at the Green Bank Observatory, and

830
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: they'd know if the NSA was no longer active in

831
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: Sugar Grove, and nobody has said they're not. So hope

832
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: this has shed some light on this for you guys.

833
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: And that again is from Stephen Cursey, author of The

834
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: Quiet Zone.

835
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: Very cool. I wrote them back too and said it's

836
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 2: always neat to hear from the per who literally wrote

837
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: the book on whatever it is we're talking about, you know.

838
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: Always great.

839
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Steven. I'm not sure how how we

840
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: missed that that the NSA actually hadn't cleared out, although

841
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: down I think about it, it's probably easy to do. Yeah,

842
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: I think we were manipulated by the NSA. Probably. If

843
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: you want to be like Stephen Kurzy and write to us,

844
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: you don't have to be an expert, that's okay. You

845
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: can send your email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

846
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

847
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

848
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.