WEBVTT - From the Archives: Reshma Saujani: Fertility 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.880 Welcome to Sheep Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.200 women who dared to pivot out of one career and 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:21.639 into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:29.640 these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. We originally 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.960 planned to air my conversation with a good friend of 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.879 mine who's a writer and an actor, but she's currently 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.440 on the picket line advocating for fair wages for her 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.960 and her fellow actors. So in honor of the WGA 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.800 and SAG afterstrike, we're sharing some resources to support all 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.839 the actors and writers striking for better contracts. You can 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.320 head over to our Causes page on the Sheep Pivots 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:52.680 website to find out how you can support our friends. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.520 In the meantime, we're re releasing one of our favorite 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.600 episodes from season one that more than deserves another listen, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.560 So tune into hear about Reshmas and Johnny's incredible journey 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.560 that recounts her time running for Congress, starting Girls Who Code, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.280 and the deeply personal moment that led her to reevaluate 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.120 at all, leading her to eventually launch Moms First. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:20.960 Hope You enjoy. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.320 You may have heard of Reshmas and Johnny from her 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.720 incredibly successful organization Girls Who Code, or her books Brave, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:29.080 Not Perfect and Pay Up. 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:31.600 Or maybe you heard her talk about. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.600 Her Marshall Plan for Moms, or perhaps you even caught 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.120 her commencement speech for Yale this year. I've known Reshma 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.880 for over a decade, and her drive and passion for 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.880 change never seems to waiver. She's a fierce advocate for 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.240 women and girls and has never been one to shy 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.560 away from the issue. She's an inspiration for me and 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.280 for so many others, and her ambition has led to 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.080 her incredible success. So how did Reshma go from what 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.840 looked like the top of her career to dismantling the 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.080 idea of success for women and realizing that the ideas 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.400 of corporate feminism that she was peddling in her many 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.000 speeches was exactly what harmed women and mothers like her. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.880 Layered on top of her struggles with fertility, Rashma's journey 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.359 to success is not what you might expect. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.120 Rashma Sa Johnny, I am a mom, the CEO of 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.000 Marshal MP for Moms, and the founder of Girls Who Code. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.600 You have had an incredibly successful career by any definition. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:31.480 Were you always so ambitious? 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.600 Oh my god, Yes, I was always so ambitious, you know, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.720 as my parents' careers refugees. So I was like an 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.120 Indian girl whose parents were like, you can be a doctor, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.679 a lawyer, or an engineer. So, you know, education was 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.480 really stressed in our family. I also think we're a 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.120 very young age. I just wanted to get out of 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.480 my working class neighborhood, get out of you know, Schambre, Illinois, 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.040 and really always had my sights on like making a 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:58.000 difference in the world. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.440 So yes, what did you think getting out looked like? Like? 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:02.560 What did success look like? 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.799 Well, I would say I think success looked like we 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.000 going to Yale Law School. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.600 Returning to Yale for our keynote address, first, Meshie Johnny 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.240 comes to share her journey and the wisdom collected along 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.560 the way with the class of twenty twenty two. So 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.440 without further ado, please join me in welcoming back to Yale. 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:22.520 This Ross Meshio Johnny, Ver. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:25.880 It is an honor to be here. I want to 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.679 thank you, know, like basically finding the most elite institution 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.920 to accept you and validate you and getting there as 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:37.520 fast as you could. I was going through my middle 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.400 school yearbook and the reason why I was I was 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.520 in a very serious fight when I was in eighth grade. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.280 I got beat up because I was a brown girl, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.080 and my sister and I were bullied in school. And 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.560 she was telling me when I had seen her about 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.040 a few months ago, that the girl who had bullied 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.720 her at school had actually facebooked her and she was 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.480 like a mom of three, and she had apologied. And 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:03.400 as my sister was telling me kind of her story, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.080 I was thinking of my own and trying to remember 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.840 this my you know, one of my friends, you know, Fudo, 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.400 who had take walked me home after I had been 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.320 beaten up with a baseball bat in the tennis racket. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.200 And so I was asking my dad do you remember her? 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:20.360 Do you remember where she lives? 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:22.240 And so my dad had pulled out because you know, 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.200 I was coming home all of the yearbooks. So I 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.480 and it was like I kind of just relived that experience. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.760 So maybe it was part of being in a community 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.080 that I didn't feel accepted, you know, maybe it was 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.520 part of again just this I just always I just 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.280 remember laying down on the grass looking at the clouds, 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.919 just waiting for quote life to begin and for me 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.720 to you know, I just never felt like I belonged 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.520 where I grew up. I will say that when my 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.560 sister told me that she got that apology, I was like, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:56.920 you know, I had blocked so much of it out 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.479 that I was like, gosh, I did kind of relive 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.000 it all, you know. So that's a little bit of 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.160 that's where kind of ambition comes from. I think if 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.560 you are you know, especially I think a woman of color, 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.239 or you know, even if there's something about you that's different, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.279 and you're in a community or a school or a 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.800 group where you just don't feel like you belong, you're 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.120 always kind of dreaming of getting out. And I think 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.200 in many ways that's where my ambition began. 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.240 I think for a lot of people it drives them 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.719 maybe inward, like not to be quite as successful as 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.520 you had been. You know, you said you thought about 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.840 success being going to Yell law school. Did you think 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.560 about success beyond that, Like, did you envision what a 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:37.400 life would look like? 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:37.800 Yeah? 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.640 Oh gosh see, I think so. You know, some of 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.160 the greatest athletes in the world always had this moment 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:46.760 where it should have happened for them. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:47.880 They should have made that shot. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.080 They should have gotten on that team, They should have 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.200 been the first NBA draft pick, and they didn't. And 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.279 some of the greatest athletes always carry that chip on 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:00.200 the shoulder. So I excel from having the chip by 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:01.960 my shoulder, you know what I mean. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:03.880 So I always felt like, you. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.240 Know, for college, I had to go to the University 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.880 of Illinois because my parents couldn't afford University of Michigan, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.280 which is where I really wanted to go. You know, 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.000 I never got into I finally got into Yell at 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.960 law school after three times after trying, never won my 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.120 congressional race or my public advocate race. So I have 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.599 a lot of things right, and I wasn't gonna let 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.279 motherhood be one of those things right where it was 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.640 like I wanted to be a mom and I didn't 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.760 have an easy pathway there. And so I am definitely 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.880 the girl who has her back up against the wall. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.839 The thing that I feel like I've earned or I 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.360 deserve or I have worked really hard for doesn't happen 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:40.200 for me. You know. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:41.400 I think a lot of people don't. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.679 Realize that, you know, as they're like reading my resume, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.480 But it's very true for me and I think for 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.760 me that creates it's okay, I'm going to show you 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.159 all right cool, like don't let me in like a 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.440 drive one hundred percent, one hundred percent. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.480 So you graduated Yale Law School and suddenly found yourself 0:06:58.440 --> 0:06:59.200 on Wall Street. 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:00.479 Yeah, New York City. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.280 I had three hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.839 bush quote quote, I'm putting quotes. One. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.719 We all thought and yeah, we're all going to the DOJ. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.800 That didn't happen. So I guess it was Davis Polk, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.040 you know. And I'm now a corporate lawyer, you know, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.920 working in New York City. I was, I was naive. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.040 I knew I love my first martch when I was thirteen. 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.280 I knew that I wanted to be a public servant. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.120 I always thought I would run for office, and I 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.960 thought that maybe I would go back to Chicago and 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.920 do that. But I found myself in and I loved 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.520 New York City. So I found myself in the city 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.880 that I loved with a hell of a lot of debt, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.080 a really big paycheck, and I never really did the math, 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.720 you know what I mean of, like, well, actually, you know, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:46.960 it looks like you can make some dent, but you're 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.520 just me paying off your interest. And so I naively 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.800 just thought that I would like live New York fun 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.920 life and make a little bit of money and pay 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.640 off my debt and then maybe in a couple of 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.520 years and I'll just I'll go then run for office 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:00.640 and be a part public servant. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.240 And it just didn't play out that way. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.360 After her life in the fast lane, she finally decided 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.080 it was time to run for office. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.280 I'm happy to welcome Reshma Sojohnny to the program today. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.240 Her name may sound familiar to you. In twenty ten, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.440 she ran for Congress in New York City. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.560 In twenty twelve, I became an upstart in a New 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:34.440 York City congressional race. I swore I was going to win. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.440 I had the endorsement from the New York Daily News, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.760 the Wall Street Journals snapped pictures of me on election day, 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.199 and CNBC called it one of the hottest races in 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.400 the country. I mean, luck with a lot of us, right, 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.280 we were actively involved in politics, like Emily's List, the DNC, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.880 we were organizing already. So you know, I'm thirty three 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.559 years old. You know, Congress Maloney is talking about retiring. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.840 She was going to run against Jill brand Christen Joelbsenter 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.240 for the Senate. There might be this open house seat. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.079 I'm in a job I hated. I've reached my final 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:08.920 for me, I don't, but I often make decisions by 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.560 hitting rock bottom. So I'm really in this job that 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.240 I hate. I haven't made all that progress on my debt. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.319 I'm literally just, you know, a little piece of me 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.359 is just dying a little bit every day. And somebody 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.000 probably was like, oh, there's this congressional seat and you 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.760 should run, not really thinking that I would actually do it. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.560 And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, And you know, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.160 I kind of work myself up into doing that, and 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.000 I just kind of very quit, and I'm like, I'm in, 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.160 and you know, I have a lot of people around me. 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.560 I'm fair very blessed about this, who like support my 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.640 crazy ideas and who are like, yes, run like and 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.080 I'm you know, And so I decided I was going 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.920 to run. And now she decides she's not retiring and 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.160 she's not running for senate. But now I've already made 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.760 this decision. And you know, Emily back then in two 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.520 thous and ten, no one challenged Democratic primaries in the 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:08.160 entire country. There was not one Democratic challenger. Now there's 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.720 this woman Rushmasa. Johnny's thirty three years old, and she's 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.839 doing what And I think because I didn't know any better, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.560 and I wasn't part of the system. And as you know, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.079 we had this little whole crew of people that were 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.480 kind of you know again like progressive politics, wanted to 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.040 change the world. We just thought we could meet every 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.880 voter and shake every hand. In many ways, it's what 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.120 Okazio did, you know ten years later, But my recent 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:33.280 turnout the way that hers did. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.000 When Reshma decided to run for office, it was twenty ten, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.520 right on the heels of the two thousand and eight 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.760 election of President Barack Obama and the passage of the 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.640 Affordable Care Act, the country as a whole felt uneasy 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:47.479 with change. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.360 I mean, I remember Geraldine Ferraro called my finance director 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.079 and was like, she can't run. I mean, I had 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.320 all these women who I admired, who were just like 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.720 not happy about it. I mean, I remember I went 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.360 up to Glorious Tetum and she's like, why are you 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:02.880 doing that? 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:04.440 And that's where I read a book after that. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.120 You know, women don't wait line, because it was I 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.800 was constantly told it's not your turn, weight in line, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:10.760 it's not your turn. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.520 And here I was again this brown girl, you know. 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.040 It's daughter of refugees, who supposed to represent everything that 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.600 we were talking about doing in this country, and I 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.679 was constantly silenced. But then we had this group of 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.160 like young up and comers who were like, go, go go. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.800 I mean, John Legend did a concert for me, you know, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.319 Jack Dorsey hosted an event for me, And at that time, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.640 both of them were just kind of building in their career, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.040 and I think we all saw the same thing in 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.520 one another. So it was it was just again so 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.760 much courage of so many yourself included right, of so 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.880 many people who were going against the system in this 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:51.760 really powerful way. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.440 So we've alluded to it. You did not win the 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.240 national not even closed crushed housed. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.720 In twenty ten, she ran for cons in New York 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.880 City but didn't win. In twenty thirteen, she ran in 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.360 the Democratic primary for Public Advocate but lost in the 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.920 crowded field that included Letitia James and Daniel Squadron. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:13.040 Really bad. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.839 I was broke, I was humiliated. I felt ashamed. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:19.640 People felt sorry for me, and I'm one of those 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.560 people I hate when people feel sorry for me. But 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.360 on election day, the polls were right and I only 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.200 got nineteen percent of the vote, and the same papers 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.600 that said I was a rising political star now said 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:38.480 I wasted one point three million dollars on six thousand, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.760 three hundred and twenty one votes. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.320 Don't do the math. It was humiliating. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.360 It was not even closed, it was and it was 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.000 really sad because I really thought I was going to win. 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.160 You know, really, I really did, because this is what happens. 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.040 It's like you're on in the subway stop and people 0:12:58.040 --> 0:12:59.480 like I've thought it for you, and finally it feels 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.720 like everyone, Wow, everyone's voting for me, like this is happening. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.120 And I just thought I could meet every hand and 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.760 shake every voter, and I just didn't realize. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.000 And We've got a lot of attention, a lot of press. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.400 I'd raised more than enough money, but you just can't 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.720 beat the machine, especially in New York City. It's really hard. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.600 But I also made a lot of mistakes. I was 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.200 so not comfortable being a candidate. It was just the 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.480 way I dressed, like the what I said, and I 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.800 just wasn't. It wasn't the same. I wasn't the same 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.560 person I am today, And so that was a very 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.960 it was a really amazing experience because I learned so much. 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.400 I feel like, listening to you talk about it now, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.360 people will be surprised to find out the next thing 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.200 you did was run for off is again. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.959 Yes, because that's what happens, right when you're like because 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.840 I you know, afterwards, I'm crushed, but I'm not crush crushed, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.840 like I'm like, okay, like I did that wrong. I 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.640 did that wrong. I wouldn't have hired that person. I 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.679 would have done this. I can do it again. Now 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.440 I know how to win and run again. I lose 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.200 again that they did in I run. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:01.800 Again, I list again. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.120 And let me tell you the first time I ran, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.240 I didn't cry on election day, and I would argue 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.240 that in many ways, I got over it pretty quickly 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.800 because I was ready for the next race. I had 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.360 like like an ambitious type a woman. I was like, okay, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:16.680 I know what I did wrong, and now I know 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:17.240 what to write. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:19.080 And then on my second. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.440 Race, I was like, oh gosh, they just don't want me. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.120 They just don't want to vote for me. Because I 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.320 had run a perfect campaign. I had no regrets. I 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.400 was me just like I am now. I you know, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.280 had understood, you know, I knew who to hire, who 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:39.720 not to hire. I knew who was lying to me, 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.000 who wasn't lying to me, and they just didn't vote 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.360 for me. And that was just crushing because it was literally, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.160 since I was thirteen, all I've wanted to do is 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.160 serve in public office. And it was this realization then 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:59.080 at thirty six or you know whatever, that oh this is, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:11.600 this might not have happen in my lifetime. How did 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.000 that feel? It felt really rough. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:15.240 Also, I had a lot of you know, I had 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.440 a miscarriage right in the beginning of it. So there 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:18.200 was just a lot. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.000 There's a lot that happened in a lot of heart 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.800 that I had put into it. And so I think 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.440 it was just I think, yeah, I was devastating. It 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.120 was really devastating. It's still very devastating in some ways. 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.480 The second one was much harder, much harder. Maybe I 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.800 got more votes. I got more votes, you know, I 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.000 was again, had no regrets. It didn't one would argue 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.160 in many ways it helped my career afterwards. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:41.240 I didn't have a lot of enemies. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.040 I had people who kind of supported me afterwards, but 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.880 it was a little bit like, oh, this might not 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.680 happen for me in this lifetime. 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.280 So you mentioned that you had been pregnant and then 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.960 lost that pregnancy on that race, was running for office 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.000 lining up with you thinking about beginning of family, Yeah, because. 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.000 I mean I writ about this, I thought it was 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:00.360 going to be like the you know, Rose the Rivet 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.960 are pregnant on the campaign trail, and the vision of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.480 it was just so perfect, and so it just yeah, 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:11.720 it was never again. I had also lined everything up 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.600 that I thought the baby, if I had a baby, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.600 you know, in this moment, it would just be, you 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.960 know again part of the story, not not getting in 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:21.480 the way of it. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.000 She'd always seen herself as a mom, but she was 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.920 also socialized to believe that being a mom needed to 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:28.800 be done in secret. 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:30.600 I always wanted to be a mom. I like lived 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.080 with stuffed animals all surrounded around me. I was obsessed 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:41.160 with my cabbage patch kid doll. I loved babies, always, always, always, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.240 always desperately wanted to. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:43.600 Be a mom. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.520 I got pregnant while I'm like, you know again, about 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.800 to launch my campaign and I'm and get married. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.920 Oh my god, and I'm like this is great. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.760 I'm not like, oh shit, you know, this is not good, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.200 this is not good timing. I was not I was 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.120 not worried about it. I was actually excited about it. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.800 You know, being a candidate is physically very grueling, very grueling. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.000 Was it something that you took into consideration once you 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:06.120 found out you were pregnant? 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.520 No, I was just like naive and you know, listen, 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.359 you know, and then I, you know, miscarried within twelve 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.879 or thirteen weeks, So the dream was very small, you 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:15.360 know what I mean. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:16.760 It didn't it didn't last long enough. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.960 But I think that I yeah, no, I think I 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:21.399 think I thought we could all handle it. 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.280 But also it's because like listen. 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.560 I think, I think I've learned so much about the 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.560 way people's bodies have to be built in order to 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:33.720 carry pregnancies and carrie, you know, whatever they're doing physically, 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.440 Like my curguit, Amber is just physically like meant, her 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.560 body is just so she can be you know, an 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.199 ear nurse and be on her feet as she was 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.960 when she carried Si all night long and with the baby. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.800 And she's good, right, I never could do that, even 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.359 when I was pretty much on bed rest by the 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.120 time I headshot. 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.040 You know, did it change your vision of yourself as 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.880 the candidate? Did you think that you could still run? 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.359 I mean, you clearly kept running, But did you mean 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.480 after I miscarried? Yeah, did it change your vision of 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:07.880 yourself in the role? 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:08.639 You know? 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:09.240 I think it did. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.320 I think in many ways it started what became a 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:17.120 bad habit of being able to compartmentalize pregnancy loss with 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.800 what was happening in my life, and so it became 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:30.040 the beginning of many miscarriages that happened alongside many professional moments. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.399 The irony of the situation could not be more stark. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:38.480 Reshma did her TED talk titled Teach Girl's Bravery not Perfection. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.520 It's a powerful speech, but in contrast to her personal story, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.600 it's heartbreaking. The image of the girl boss Reshma had 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.880 carefully constructed in her head slowly began to fracture. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.760 No one talked about it, so I didn't really have 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.040 anyone to talk to about it. No one said to me, hey, 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.320 you probably shouldn't go make that speech after you just 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.399 walked out of the die's office, and I didn't have 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.840 a heartbeat, because I think there's so much. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.880 Shame and silence around. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.399 It's so amazing today that we even talk about getting 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.280 days off to grieve once you have a miscarriage. That 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.080 was not at all part of even the conversation or 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.320 of what people did. So in many ways, one I 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.879 think I thought that that was just the price of motherhood, 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.520 of wanting to be a mom, of wanting of being 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:27.680 a boss, a girl boss, that like, shit happens and 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.800 it sucks, but you got to keep on moving, and 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.520 how unhealthy and it ironically, it wasn't until after I 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.040 had my kid that I looked back at that period 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.919 of my life and I was like, oh, I was depressed. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.439 It's why I didn't go out, It's why I was 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.640 up and down in terms of my weight, It's why 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.800 I was sad, you know, It's why I was just 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.520 performing in many ways. And it wasn't until the same 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.680 things were happening with before my second then I started 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:58.400