1 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Sheep Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: women who dared to pivot out of one career and 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. We originally 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: planned to air my conversation with a good friend of 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: mine who's a writer and an actor, but she's currently 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: on the picket line advocating for fair wages for her 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: and her fellow actors. So in honor of the WGA 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and SAG afterstrike, we're sharing some resources to support all 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: the actors and writers striking for better contracts. You can 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: head over to our Causes page on the Sheep Pivots 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: website to find out how you can support our friends. 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: In the meantime, we're re releasing one of our favorite 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: episodes from season one that more than deserves another listen, 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: So tune into hear about Reshmas and Johnny's incredible journey 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: that recounts her time running for Congress, starting Girls Who Code, 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: and the deeply personal moment that led her to reevaluate 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: at all, leading her to eventually launch Moms First. 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: Hope You enjoy. 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: You may have heard of Reshmas and Johnny from her 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: incredibly successful organization Girls Who Code, or her books Brave, 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: Not Perfect and Pay Up. 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: Or maybe you heard her talk about. 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: Her Marshall Plan for Moms, or perhaps you even caught 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: her commencement speech for Yale this year. I've known Reshma 26 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: for over a decade, and her drive and passion for 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: change never seems to waiver. She's a fierce advocate for 28 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: women and girls and has never been one to shy 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: away from the issue. She's an inspiration for me and 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: for so many others, and her ambition has led to 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: her incredible success. So how did Reshma go from what 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: looked like the top of her career to dismantling the 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: idea of success for women and realizing that the ideas 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: of corporate feminism that she was peddling in her many 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: speeches was exactly what harmed women and mothers like her. 36 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: Layered on top of her struggles with fertility, Rashma's journey 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: to success is not what you might expect. 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: Rashma Sa Johnny, I am a mom, the CEO of 39 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 3: Marshal MP for Moms, and the founder of Girls Who Code. 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: You have had an incredibly successful career by any definition. 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: Were you always so ambitious? 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Yes, I was always so ambitious, you know, 43 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: as my parents' careers refugees. So I was like an 44 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: Indian girl whose parents were like, you can be a doctor, 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 3: a lawyer, or an engineer. So, you know, education was 46 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: really stressed in our family. I also think we're a 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: very young age. I just wanted to get out of 48 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: my working class neighborhood, get out of you know, Schambre, Illinois, 49 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: and really always had my sights on like making a 50 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: difference in the world. 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: So yes, what did you think getting out looked like? Like? 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: What did success look like? 53 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 3: Well, I would say I think success looked like we 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: going to Yale Law School. 55 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 4: Returning to Yale for our keynote address, first, Meshie Johnny 56 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 4: comes to share her journey and the wisdom collected along 57 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 4: the way with the class of twenty twenty two. So 58 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 4: without further ado, please join me in welcoming back to Yale. 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: This Ross Meshio Johnny, Ver. 60 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 3: It is an honor to be here. I want to 61 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 3: thank you, know, like basically finding the most elite institution 62 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 3: to accept you and validate you and getting there as 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: fast as you could. I was going through my middle 64 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: school yearbook and the reason why I was I was 65 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: in a very serious fight when I was in eighth grade. 66 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: I got beat up because I was a brown girl, 67 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: and my sister and I were bullied in school. And 68 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 3: she was telling me when I had seen her about 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: a few months ago, that the girl who had bullied 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: her at school had actually facebooked her and she was 71 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 3: like a mom of three, and she had apologied. And 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 3: as my sister was telling me kind of her story, 73 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: I was thinking of my own and trying to remember 74 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 3: this my you know, one of my friends, you know, Fudo, 75 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: who had take walked me home after I had been 76 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: beaten up with a baseball bat in the tennis racket. 77 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: And so I was asking my dad do you remember her? 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: Do you remember where she lives? 79 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: And so my dad had pulled out because you know, 80 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 3: I was coming home all of the yearbooks. So I 81 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 3: and it was like I kind of just relived that experience. 82 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: So maybe it was part of being in a community 83 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: that I didn't feel accepted, you know, maybe it was 84 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: part of again just this I just always I just 85 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 3: remember laying down on the grass looking at the clouds, 86 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 3: just waiting for quote life to begin and for me 87 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 3: to you know, I just never felt like I belonged 88 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: where I grew up. I will say that when my 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: sister told me that she got that apology, I was like, 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: you know, I had blocked so much of it out 91 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 3: that I was like, gosh, I did kind of relive 92 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 3: it all, you know. So that's a little bit of 93 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: that's where kind of ambition comes from. I think if 94 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: you are you know, especially I think a woman of color, 95 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 3: or you know, even if there's something about you that's different, 96 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: and you're in a community or a school or a 97 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: group where you just don't feel like you belong, you're 98 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: always kind of dreaming of getting out. And I think 99 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: in many ways that's where my ambition began. 100 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people it drives them 101 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: maybe inward, like not to be quite as successful as 102 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: you had been. You know, you said you thought about 103 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: success being going to Yell law school. Did you think 104 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: about success beyond that, Like, did you envision what a 105 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: life would look like? 106 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? 107 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: Oh gosh see, I think so. You know, some of 108 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 3: the greatest athletes in the world always had this moment 109 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: where it should have happened for them. 110 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: They should have made that shot. 111 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: They should have gotten on that team, They should have 112 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: been the first NBA draft pick, and they didn't. And 113 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: some of the greatest athletes always carry that chip on 114 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: the shoulder. So I excel from having the chip by 115 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: my shoulder, you know what I mean. 116 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: So I always felt like, you. 117 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 3: Know, for college, I had to go to the University 118 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: of Illinois because my parents couldn't afford University of Michigan, 119 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 3: which is where I really wanted to go. You know, 120 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: I never got into I finally got into Yell at 121 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: law school after three times after trying, never won my 122 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: congressional race or my public advocate race. So I have 123 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: a lot of things right, and I wasn't gonna let 124 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 3: motherhood be one of those things right where it was 125 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: like I wanted to be a mom and I didn't 126 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: have an easy pathway there. And so I am definitely 127 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: the girl who has her back up against the wall. 128 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: The thing that I feel like I've earned or I 129 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 3: deserve or I have worked really hard for doesn't happen 130 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: for me. You know. 131 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't. 132 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 3: Realize that, you know, as they're like reading my resume, 133 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 3: But it's very true for me and I think for 134 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: me that creates it's okay, I'm going to show you 135 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 3: all right cool, like don't let me in like a 136 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: drive one hundred percent, one hundred percent. 137 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: So you graduated Yale Law School and suddenly found yourself 138 00:06:58,440 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: on Wall Street. 139 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, New York City. 140 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: I had three hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt 141 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: bush quote quote, I'm putting quotes. One. 142 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: We all thought and yeah, we're all going to the DOJ. 143 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: That didn't happen. So I guess it was Davis Polk, 144 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: you know. And I'm now a corporate lawyer, you know, 145 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: working in New York City. I was, I was naive. 146 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: I knew I love my first martch when I was thirteen. 147 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 3: I knew that I wanted to be a public servant. 148 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: I always thought I would run for office, and I 149 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: thought that maybe I would go back to Chicago and 150 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: do that. But I found myself in and I loved 151 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: New York City. So I found myself in the city 152 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: that I loved with a hell of a lot of debt, 153 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: a really big paycheck, and I never really did the math, 154 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: you know what I mean of, like, well, actually, you know, 155 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: it looks like you can make some dent, but you're 156 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: just me paying off your interest. And so I naively 157 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: just thought that I would like live New York fun 158 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: life and make a little bit of money and pay 159 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: off my debt and then maybe in a couple of 160 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: years and I'll just I'll go then run for office 161 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: and be a part public servant. 162 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: And it just didn't play out that way. 163 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: After her life in the fast lane, she finally decided 164 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: it was time to run for office. 165 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 5: I'm happy to welcome Reshma Sojohnny to the program today. 166 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 5: Her name may sound familiar to you. In twenty ten, 167 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 5: she ran for Congress in New York City. 168 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: In twenty twelve, I became an upstart in a New 169 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: York City congressional race. I swore I was going to win. 170 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 3: I had the endorsement from the New York Daily News, 171 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journals snapped pictures of me on election day, 172 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 3: and CNBC called it one of the hottest races in 173 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 3: the country. I mean, luck with a lot of us, right, 174 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: we were actively involved in politics, like Emily's List, the DNC, 175 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 3: we were organizing already. So you know, I'm thirty three 176 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 3: years old. You know, Congress Maloney is talking about retiring. 177 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: She was going to run against Jill brand Christen Joelbsenter 178 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: for the Senate. There might be this open house seat. 179 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 3: I'm in a job I hated. I've reached my final 180 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: for me, I don't, but I often make decisions by 181 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 3: hitting rock bottom. So I'm really in this job that 182 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 3: I hate. I haven't made all that progress on my debt. 183 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 3: I'm literally just, you know, a little piece of me 184 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,359 Speaker 3: is just dying a little bit every day. And somebody 185 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: probably was like, oh, there's this congressional seat and you 186 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: should run, not really thinking that I would actually do it. 187 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, And you know, 188 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: I kind of work myself up into doing that, and 189 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 3: I just kind of very quit, and I'm like, I'm in, 190 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 3: and you know, I have a lot of people around me. 191 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 3: I'm fair very blessed about this, who like support my 192 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: crazy ideas and who are like, yes, run like and 193 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 3: I'm you know, And so I decided I was going 194 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: to run. And now she decides she's not retiring and 195 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: she's not running for senate. But now I've already made 196 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: this decision. And you know, Emily back then in two 197 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: thous and ten, no one challenged Democratic primaries in the 198 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: entire country. There was not one Democratic challenger. Now there's 199 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: this woman Rushmasa. Johnny's thirty three years old, and she's 200 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: doing what And I think because I didn't know any better, 201 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: and I wasn't part of the system. And as you know, 202 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 3: we had this little whole crew of people that were 203 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: kind of you know again like progressive politics, wanted to 204 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: change the world. We just thought we could meet every 205 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 3: voter and shake every hand. In many ways, it's what 206 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: Okazio did, you know ten years later, But my recent 207 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: turnout the way that hers did. 208 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: When Reshma decided to run for office, it was twenty ten, 209 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: right on the heels of the two thousand and eight 210 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: election of President Barack Obama and the passage of the 211 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act, the country as a whole felt uneasy 212 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,479 Speaker 1: with change. 213 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I remember Geraldine Ferraro called my finance director 214 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 3: and was like, she can't run. I mean, I had 215 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 3: all these women who I admired, who were just like 216 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: not happy about it. I mean, I remember I went 217 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: up to Glorious Tetum and she's like, why are you 218 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: doing that? 219 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: And that's where I read a book after that. 220 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: You know, women don't wait line, because it was I 221 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: was constantly told it's not your turn, weight in line, 222 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: it's not your turn. 223 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: And here I was again this brown girl, you know. 224 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: It's daughter of refugees, who supposed to represent everything that 225 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 3: we were talking about doing in this country, and I 226 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 3: was constantly silenced. But then we had this group of 227 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: like young up and comers who were like, go, go go. 228 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: I mean, John Legend did a concert for me, you know, 229 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 3: Jack Dorsey hosted an event for me, And at that time, 230 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 3: both of them were just kind of building in their career, 231 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: and I think we all saw the same thing in 232 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: one another. So it was it was just again so 233 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 3: much courage of so many yourself included right, of so 234 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: many people who were going against the system in this 235 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: really powerful way. 236 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: So we've alluded to it. You did not win the 237 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: national not even closed crushed housed. 238 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 5: In twenty ten, she ran for cons in New York 239 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: City but didn't win. In twenty thirteen, she ran in 240 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 5: the Democratic primary for Public Advocate but lost in the 241 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 5: crowded field that included Letitia James and Daniel Squadron. 242 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: Really bad. 243 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 2: I was broke, I was humiliated. I felt ashamed. 244 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 3: People felt sorry for me, and I'm one of those 245 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 3: people I hate when people feel sorry for me. But 246 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: on election day, the polls were right and I only 247 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 3: got nineteen percent of the vote, and the same papers 248 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: that said I was a rising political star now said 249 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: I wasted one point three million dollars on six thousand, 250 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: three hundred and twenty one votes. 251 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: Don't do the math. It was humiliating. 252 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: It was not even closed, it was and it was 253 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: really sad because I really thought I was going to win. 254 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: You know, really, I really did, because this is what happens. 255 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: It's like you're on in the subway stop and people 256 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: like I've thought it for you, and finally it feels 257 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: like everyone, Wow, everyone's voting for me, like this is happening. 258 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: And I just thought I could meet every hand and 259 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: shake every voter, and I just didn't realize. 260 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: And We've got a lot of attention, a lot of press. 261 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: I'd raised more than enough money, but you just can't 262 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 3: beat the machine, especially in New York City. It's really hard. 263 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 3: But I also made a lot of mistakes. I was 264 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 3: so not comfortable being a candidate. It was just the 265 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: way I dressed, like the what I said, and I 266 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: just wasn't. It wasn't the same. I wasn't the same 267 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 3: person I am today, And so that was a very 268 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 3: it was a really amazing experience because I learned so much. 269 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: I feel like, listening to you talk about it now, 270 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: people will be surprised to find out the next thing 271 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: you did was run for off is again. 272 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 3: Yes, because that's what happens, right when you're like because 273 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 3: I you know, afterwards, I'm crushed, but I'm not crush crushed, 274 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 3: like I'm like, okay, like I did that wrong. I 275 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 3: did that wrong. I wouldn't have hired that person. I 276 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 3: would have done this. I can do it again. Now 277 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 3: I know how to win and run again. I lose 278 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 3: again that they did in I run. 279 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: Again, I list again. 280 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: And let me tell you the first time I ran, 281 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: I didn't cry on election day, and I would argue 282 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 3: that in many ways, I got over it pretty quickly 283 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: because I was ready for the next race. I had 284 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 3: like like an ambitious type a woman. I was like, okay, 285 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 3: I know what I did wrong, and now I know 286 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: what to write. 287 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: And then on my second. 288 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: Race, I was like, oh gosh, they just don't want me. 289 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: They just don't want to vote for me. Because I 290 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: had run a perfect campaign. I had no regrets. I 291 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: was me just like I am now. I you know, 292 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: had understood, you know, I knew who to hire, who 293 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 3: not to hire. I knew who was lying to me, 294 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: who wasn't lying to me, and they just didn't vote 295 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: for me. And that was just crushing because it was literally, 296 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: since I was thirteen, all I've wanted to do is 297 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: serve in public office. And it was this realization then 298 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 3: at thirty six or you know whatever, that oh this is, 299 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 3: this might not have happen in my lifetime. How did 300 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 3: that feel? It felt really rough. 301 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: Also, I had a lot of you know, I had 302 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: a miscarriage right in the beginning of it. So there 303 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: was just a lot. 304 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: There's a lot that happened in a lot of heart 305 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 3: that I had put into it. And so I think 306 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: it was just I think, yeah, I was devastating. It 307 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: was really devastating. It's still very devastating in some ways. 308 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: The second one was much harder, much harder. Maybe I 309 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: got more votes. I got more votes, you know, I 310 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: was again, had no regrets. It didn't one would argue 311 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: in many ways it helped my career afterwards. 312 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of enemies. 313 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 3: I had people who kind of supported me afterwards, but 314 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 3: it was a little bit like, oh, this might not 315 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: happen for me in this lifetime. 316 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that you had been pregnant and then 317 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: lost that pregnancy on that race, was running for office 318 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: lining up with you thinking about beginning of family, Yeah, because. 319 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: I mean I writ about this, I thought it was 320 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: going to be like the you know, Rose the Rivet 321 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: are pregnant on the campaign trail, and the vision of 322 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: it was just so perfect, and so it just yeah, 323 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: it was never again. I had also lined everything up 324 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: that I thought the baby, if I had a baby, 325 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 3: you know, in this moment, it would just be, you 326 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: know again part of the story, not not getting in 327 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: the way of it. 328 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: She'd always seen herself as a mom, but she was 329 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: also socialized to believe that being a mom needed to 330 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: be done in secret. 331 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: I always wanted to be a mom. I like lived 332 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: with stuffed animals all surrounded around me. I was obsessed 333 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: with my cabbage patch kid doll. I loved babies, always, always, always, 334 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: always desperately wanted to. 335 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: Be a mom. 336 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 3: I got pregnant while I'm like, you know again, about 337 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 3: to launch my campaign and I'm and get married. 338 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: Oh my god, and I'm like this is great. 339 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: I'm not like, oh shit, you know, this is not good, 340 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: this is not good timing. I was not I was 341 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: not worried about it. I was actually excited about it. 342 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: You know, being a candidate is physically very grueling, very grueling. 343 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: Was it something that you took into consideration once you 344 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: found out you were pregnant? 345 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 3: No, I was just like naive and you know, listen, 346 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: you know, and then I, you know, miscarried within twelve 347 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 3: or thirteen weeks, So the dream was very small, you 348 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 3: know what I mean. 349 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: It didn't it didn't last long enough. 350 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: But I think that I yeah, no, I think I 351 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 3: think I thought we could all handle it. 352 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: But also it's because like listen. 353 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: I think, I think I've learned so much about the 354 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: way people's bodies have to be built in order to 355 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: carry pregnancies and carrie, you know, whatever they're doing physically, 356 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 3: Like my curguit, Amber is just physically like meant, her 357 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: body is just so she can be you know, an 358 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 3: ear nurse and be on her feet as she was 359 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: when she carried Si all night long and with the baby. 360 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: And she's good, right, I never could do that, even 361 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: when I was pretty much on bed rest by the 362 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 3: time I headshot. 363 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: You know, did it change your vision of yourself as 364 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: the candidate? Did you think that you could still run? 365 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you clearly kept running, But did you mean 366 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: after I miscarried? Yeah, did it change your vision of 367 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: yourself in the role? 368 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 3: You know? 369 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: I think it did. 370 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: I think in many ways it started what became a 371 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: bad habit of being able to compartmentalize pregnancy loss with 372 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: what was happening in my life, and so it became 373 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 3: the beginning of many miscarriages that happened alongside many professional moments. 374 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: The irony of the situation could not be more stark. 375 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: Reshma did her TED talk titled Teach Girl's Bravery not Perfection. 376 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: It's a powerful speech, but in contrast to her personal story, 377 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking. The image of the girl boss Reshma had 378 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: carefully constructed in her head slowly began to fracture. 379 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 3: No one talked about it, so I didn't really have 380 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 3: anyone to talk to about it. No one said to me, hey, 381 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: you probably shouldn't go make that speech after you just 382 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 3: walked out of the die's office, and I didn't have 383 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: a heartbeat, because I think there's so much. 384 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: Shame and silence around. 385 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 3: It's so amazing today that we even talk about getting 386 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: days off to grieve once you have a miscarriage. That 387 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 3: was not at all part of even the conversation or 388 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 3: of what people did. So in many ways, one I 389 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: think I thought that that was just the price of motherhood, 390 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: of wanting to be a mom, of wanting of being 391 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 3: a boss, a girl boss, that like, shit happens and 392 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: it sucks, but you got to keep on moving, and 393 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: how unhealthy and it ironically, it wasn't until after I 394 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 3: had my kid that I looked back at that period 395 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 3: of my life and I was like, oh, I was depressed. 396 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 3: It's why I didn't go out, It's why I was 397 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 3: up and down in terms of my weight, It's why 398 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 3: I was sad, you know, It's why I was just 399 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: performing in many ways. And it wasn't until the same 400 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 3: things were happening with before my second then I started 401 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 3: crying all the time. 402 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 2: And then I was like, okay, but I didn't. 403 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 3: You know, it took me a while to for it 404 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 3: emotionally to break me in the way that it should 405 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 3: have very early on. And you know, look I don't 406 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: think I had someone. It's my fault because I never 407 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 3: really I never really told anybody that I was. In 408 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 3: my closest friends, I wasn't like I'm going through all this, 409 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: it would just make it didn't. 410 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: Work out, and okay, what do we having for dinner? 411 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: But you kept driving professionally, I mean even through this time. 412 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: After you lost that public advocate race, you went on 413 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: to build this incredible nonprofit, Girls Who Code. 414 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean I lose the race, and I'm like, okay, 415 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: then I'm going to show you. You're not going to 416 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: lect me to be public advocate to teach you know, 417 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of millions of New York City pulic 418 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 3: school kids to code. Then I'm going to make Girls 419 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 3: who Could. At that time, we were really small, you know, 420 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 3: we taught like a handful of girls. I'm going to 421 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: make Girls who Code the largest nonprofit. 422 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 2: In the world, teaches millions of girls. And I put 423 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 2: my head down and I didn't. 424 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: Girls who Code went on to serve over five hundred 425 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: thousand girls, women and non binary students, creating one of 426 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: the largest pipelines for future females and engineering. What many 427 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: don't know is that before she hit the ground running 428 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: with Girls Who Code, she had the opportunity to move 429 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: into a senior position in the New York City Mayor's office. 430 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: This was finally her opportunity to fulfill her lifetime goal 431 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 1: of working in public service that she had dreamed of. 432 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: But she said no, and she pivoted into something new, 433 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: leaving behind her work in politics. 434 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 435 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: No, I didn't want to do that. I wanted to build, 436 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 3: you know, I really was. I really wanted to build 437 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: the organization. And I put my head down, you know, 438 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: for years and just learned how to be a CEO, 439 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 3: worked and having a baby, you know, and just just 440 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 3: grinded every single day. 441 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 6: Twenty twelve started it, thirty thousand plus graduates in the program. 442 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: Is it true that you didn't know how to code 443 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: when you started it? Now I'm like the weirdest person 444 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: to start Girls Who Code. 445 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 7: Girls Who Code has proven time and time again that 446 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 7: we're about more than just teaching girls and non binary 447 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 7: students how to code. We are growing a movement of 448 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 7: over four hundred and fifty thousand students served now and counting. 449 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 7: Founder of CEO of Girls Who Code, Thank you, thank you, 450 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 7: thank you for. 451 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: But through it all, Reshmus still continued to struggle with 452 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: her fertility. 453 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: So yeah, I would I would go, I'd have a 454 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 3: miscarriage and then that I'd be on stage with introducing Obama, Smile, Small, Spell. 455 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 3: You know, I would have another risk caarriage and then 456 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: I would be there. I was in Utah with six 457 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: of our girls Smile, Spell, Spell, and so I don't 458 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: think that the closest my even my team, you know, 459 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: never really knew kind of the again, my private hell 460 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 3: that was happening behind the scenes. So it was very, 461 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 3: very very I remember one time I was doing I 462 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 3: hadn't miscarried yet, but I knew I was going to, 463 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 3: and I was taping something in Washington, one of the 464 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: big morning shows, and I was in the green room 465 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 3: with I think again I don't want to out her, 466 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: but a very prominent young lawyer of a very prominent 467 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 3: case that it ignited the Black Lives Matter movement, And 468 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 3: somehow we started talking and she too had just had 469 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 3: a miscarriage, and we were saying, like, how sick it 470 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: was in many ways that we were both sitting there, 471 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 3: me not having miscarried yet, but about you in any 472 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 3: second getting our hair and makeup done because in many 473 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: ways we were both social activist, and I think it's 474 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: doubly worse. You're a woman who you think you have 475 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 3: to just show up when trauma happens to you, and 476 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: then you're fighting for justice, so you think that you 477 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 3: also the fight never ends, so you just have to 478 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: you know, for me, it was for the girls. For 479 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: her it was young black boys were being killed, and 480 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: so you know that like wow, and what did that 481 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 3: really say about who we were? Because in some ways 482 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: you would turn around and be like, what's wrong with me? 483 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 3: You know, like this is not normal? But again again 484 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: now going by with the work that I'm doing now, 485 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 3: I tribute all of that to girl bloss culture. It's 486 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: like we have been told over and over and over 487 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: again by the senior, by women in our life that 488 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: are that this is the price you have to pay, 489 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: that this is what the cost is, and that I 490 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 3: did it, you do it. 491 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: And that no one ever said no, that's not right. 492 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: Did you when you were envisioning being successful and getting 493 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: out and establishing yourself, was it part of the vision, Like. 494 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 2: How did you envision? 495 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 4: No? 496 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 3: No, I feel like I had built everything around motherhood, 497 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: not getting my way of my ambition of the thing 498 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 3: that I wanted to achieve, and I never really loved 499 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 3: the identity. 500 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: Like I remember, you know you can appreciate this, like 501 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: you know, girls of Code. 502 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: After become mom my team's like, great, you should be 503 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 3: like one of those cool mode bloggers. 504 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: And I'm like, no fucking way, no, right. I wouldn't 505 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: even put on a pair of mom jeans. 506 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: I was like, I am not, that's not my identity, 507 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: because I think that there was a lot of like 508 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 3: being a mom is not sexy, not cool, was not respected. Right, 509 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: It's the way many people, like many people have always 510 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 3: hid that piece of their identy, at least we've been 511 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 3: taught that as young women, right to hide that piece 512 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: of your identity. And so I think it was something 513 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 3: I desperately wanted, but I also kind of wanted to hide. 514 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: So did your vision of yourself and your professional self 515 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: and your professional ambition. Do you think that your vision 516 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: of yourself and where you were growing changed once you 517 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: did have your first son? 518 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 3: Yes, well, because then I realized, oh my god, like 519 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: you know, because I was just I was just angry, 520 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: and for most of that time, you know, it's like 521 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 3: why is this happening to me, Angry that seemed like 522 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 3: it was so much easier for other women, you know, 523 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: Angry that like like this wasn't supposed to be my story, 524 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: Angry that I never got to really enjoy pregnancy in 525 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: the entire journey, and. 526 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: Just angry that I just I couldn't ever really share. 527 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 3: And there were times too that I would try to 528 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 3: share it when a reporter was interviewing me about, like, 529 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: you know whatever, writing a profile, and they'd never write. 530 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 2: About it, never write about your anger. 531 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 3: They'd never write about when they say, what's your biggest 532 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 3: struggle that you've ever had? And I was like, well, 533 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 3: it's been really hard having you know, a baby, and 534 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: I've had a miscaracter too. Never write about that. They 535 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 3: never probed about that. Now that's shifted, but I tried, 536 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: you know, to kind of put it out there a 537 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 3: little bit. 538 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: Still, despite the countless mommy blogs, influencers, and podcasts, the 539 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: conversations around getting pregnant, miscarriages, and surrogacy are seen as 540 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: uncomfortable to talk about. 541 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: It's like you rather tell somebody you have cancer than 542 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 3: say that you had a miscarriage. People don't know how 543 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 3: to react, especially back then, when someone tells you that 544 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 3: and it's really it makes them feel really, really uncomfortable. 545 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 3: And I think it goes back to the fact that 546 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 3: we have this archetype that it's so easy to get 547 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 3: to get pregnant and to keep a baby, and so 548 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 3: it's almost like, way, oh, what's wrong. 549 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 2: With you that you couldn't do that? 550 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 3: So I think after I had Sean, I think I 551 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: was able to look back and be like, oh, whoa, 552 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,239 Speaker 3: there was a lot and to start to unravel that 553 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 3: with my therapist, you know, with family, with friends, you know, 554 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: and say, you know, I was not dealing with my 555 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 3: mental health issues. You know that I was facing from 556 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 3: the trauma of all the pregnancy losses. And then when 557 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 3: I tried to do my second, I wasn't much better, 558 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 3: went back to the all the old bad habits until 559 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 3: I had this one loss, maybe my second, my second 560 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 3: loss would sigh before I had my baby or second 561 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 3: or third loss, second loss where you know, I was 562 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 3: in California and you know, we think the embryo takes 563 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: I'm sure everyone who knows who's gone through this HGG 564 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: level is going up before it's going down, you know, 565 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 3: get the call it. What was then four in the 566 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 3: morning because it was seven am in New York, being like, 567 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 3: you know, there's no there's no heartbea, it's not going up. 568 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 3: And then I have to hop on a flight at 569 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 3: eleven o'clock or ten o'clock to go to u Utah 570 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: because we were announcing the US partnership with the Governor 571 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 3: of Utah with a room full of seven hundred girls. 572 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 3: Now mind you, I have been desperate to help a 573 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 3: little girl, you know, and this was supposed to be it. 574 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 3: And you know, I remember my husband saying, you don't 575 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: have to go, and I was like, no, no, no, I 576 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 3: have to go. And I go, you know, and I 577 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 3: look back at those pictures and it's just like I 578 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 3: have to do the whole thing with the governor, do 579 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 3: the green room, do the photos and d and then 580 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: you know, I just got back and I was just 581 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 3: off and everybody I was just being I was just 582 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 3: not you know, I was angry. You know, I was 583 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 3: angry with my team and you know, now my new 584 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 3: CEO member Treek of being like, what's wrong. And then 585 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: I just convened everybody and I was just cried. I 586 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: and I said, guys, I just can't do this. Anymore. 587 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: I need a break, I need to heal, I need 588 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: to focus on what I need to do to have 589 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 3: my next baby. 590 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: After years of fertility treatments, IVF and more, she decided 591 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: she wanted to try one last time. 592 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: At this time now I'm forty three. I'm forty three. 593 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 3: I'm forty three, and it's my last shot, you know, 594 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: to get those embryos right. And my doctor is amazing. 595 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 3: And so I said to my husband, I was I 596 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 3: was going to be done. And then we meet this 597 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: couple and this woman says, essentially like my one regret 598 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 3: is that I just didn't try one more time. And 599 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: I basically, you know, come back and I, you know, 600 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 3: say to my husband and my doctor, I want to 601 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 3: try again. And they're like, you just can't because at 602 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 3: this point it's just physically I have autoimmune issues. It's 603 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 3: just you know, blood clots blah blah blah blah blah. 604 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: It's just not and I'm not in forty three, right, 605 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: And so they were basically, Okay, we'll let you try, 606 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 3: but you can't carry the baby. 607 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: Had that been something you'd ever considered before? 608 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: No, Because superpower Raschma wanted to basically show everybody that 609 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 3: I could do it, you know, myself more than anybody. 610 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 3: But then I was like, okay, I will not try 611 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 3: to put my body through this anymore and sacrifice my life. 612 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 3: And I will and of course do my IVF cycle 613 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 3: and at forty three I get these four beautiful, healthy embryos, 614 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 3: of which one is now my son. But it was 615 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: this really you know, incredible lesson of just letting go, 616 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 3: you know, first letting go of having to have this 617 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 3: trauma and holding it on my own, letting go of 618 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 3: the fact that maybe my body is not built to 619 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 3: carry a baby, and that is okay. But I think 620 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 3: it's also for me a story of like I never 621 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 3: give up, and I tell people all this time because 622 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 3: now it's so beautiful. And I think part of why 623 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 3: I share this too is like literally I probably coach 624 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: for five six families women a week who just DM 625 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 3: me on Instagram who are going through their fertility struggles 626 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: and because you know, I didn't have that, and so 627 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 3: I want people to have someone that even if it's 628 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 3: a stranger, you know that they DM on LinkedIn or Instagram, 629 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 3: that can be there. But I I always say to 630 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 3: people like, if you want to become a mother. You 631 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 3: will become one. It may not be in the way 632 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,239 Speaker 3: that you think it's going to be, but you know 633 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: you can. And I think this goes to probably the end, 634 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: which is why it's so I think COVID was such 635 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 3: an eye opener for me, and just again the fact 636 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 3: that I had been building and grinding and building and 637 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 3: grinding and never really seeing my kids that I had 638 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: worked so hard to actually see because I had again 639 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: bought into this culture that like, that's a sacrifice that 640 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 3: you pay to be a working mom. 641 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: So your new book pay Up, Yeah, really gets to 642 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: the heart of this. It's not we can't grind our 643 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: way out of it. 644 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't grind our way out of it. And 645 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 3: the fact that, like, we don't have to hide from 646 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 3: our death. I mean, I wanted so desperately to be 647 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 3: a mother, and then when I was a mother, I 648 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 3: let culture take that away from me. I let workplaces 649 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 3: take that away from me. I let the government basically 650 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 3: say you've got no support for doing that. 651 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: I want to pause here because I think it's important 652 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: to highlight this pivot. I think it's a moment that 653 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: many of us have been slowly realizing that we just 654 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: can't have it all, And even for someone like Reshma, 655 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: who's such a fierce advocate for women, it took years 656 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: for her to fully understand this, and despite the gut 657 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: wrenching loss of each pregnancy, she still felt it necessary 658 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: to push further and harder in her career until she broke. 659 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: And I think the whole point is where it's being 660 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 3: given a false choice and that we all think it's 661 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 3: just like I thought it was my personal problem that 662 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 3: I had to basically fix and solve and I didn't 663 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: need any support or help from anybody. I was wrong here. 664 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 3: I think so many moms think, well, it's my problem. 665 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: If I'm not able to balance my job and my 666 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 3: care taking responsibilities, it's my problem. If my husband is 667 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 3: not doing his part, it's my problem, right if my 668 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 3: employer doesn't you know, No, it's not it's not you. 669 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with you. There's something wrong with the system. 670 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 3: And the whole idea of trying to fix the system 671 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 3: and not fix the woman. I mean everything, Emily, everything 672 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 3: we read, and again these are from women I admire 673 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 3: and I was one of them, Like you know, from 674 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 3: Confidence Code to Lean Into, like every single women's leadership 675 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 3: book is about fixing you. And that's why women come 676 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: to us and say, I have imposter syndrome? 677 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: What do I do? 678 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 3: I don't have confidence? What should I do? And it's like, no, no, no, 679 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with you. There's something wrong with the system, 680 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 3: with the structure. And so it's kind of wild because 681 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: we need to have a radically different We need to 682 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 3: have a radically different conversation than we are having, you know, 683 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 3: in workplaces in government, which is all about the fact 684 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 3: of why do we make it so damn hard for 685 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 3: working women and parents? 686 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: We really haven't reconciled those two personalities that you were saying, 687 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: the two archetypes. 688 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: Of the working woman and the mom. We don't know 689 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: how to do it. 690 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: And one of the mentors that I know that you 691 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: have among the people that you mentioned is Secretary Hillary Clinton, 692 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: who in many ways ended up embodying or taking on 693 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: the anger that a lot of women who didn't feel 694 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: like they had choices, they projected it on to her. Yeap, 695 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: what are some of the conversations you have with her 696 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: around the changing. 697 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 2: The culture that you've written about in Pay Up? 698 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think in many ways it's like 699 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 3: they she struggled with that, and I think she the 700 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: way she led as a mother and a leader is 701 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 3: still the example for us. She never tried. She never 702 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 3: hid Chelsea. She really not, you know what I mean, 703 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 3: if you really think about it, she never hit Chelsea, 704 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: and she never hid being a mom. If you look 705 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 3: at her Twitter profile or her Instagram profile, the first 706 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 3: word on the top is mother, grandmother. So you know, 707 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 3: Sexuaryclain has always been ahead of her times, and this 708 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 3: is another example of that. But I think she's always 709 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 3: also recognized how hard it is society makes it for 710 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 3: women and that we do have this once in a lifetime. 711 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 3: She said to me, She's like, don't say you know, 712 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 3: please and thank you. Fight fight, fight, fight, Like, this 713 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 3: is the moment with a great resignation. This is the 714 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: moment with all of you know, the seller's market, in 715 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 3: the tight labor market for women to say enough enough, 716 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 3: We're not breastfeeding in closets. You know, don't freeze my eggs, 717 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 3: but pay for me to free my eggs, but don't 718 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: pay for my childcare. You know, don't stop pushing back 719 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: on flexibility and remote working when I've already proven that 720 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 3: I can be productive. You know, with caretaking responsibilities. So 721 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 3: I feel like she's always been at the forefront of 722 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 3: this fight. You know, there's some women I won't need names, 723 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 3: you know, who have never used their platform to elevate 724 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 3: this issue, and in fact, you have done quite the opposite. 725 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: Whereas you know, Sexuary clans always used her platform to 726 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 3: elevate this issue. Always, She's always led with her motherhood 727 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 3: before it was cool. 728 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: Like so many other women, Reshma was crushed by the pandemic. 729 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: After her long struggle with infertility, she finally had the 730 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: baby through surrogacy, and then COVID hit like a ton 731 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: of bricks. 732 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 8: The tame pandemic has created a significant shift in the workforce. 733 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 8: We've talked about it a lot, the great resignation, differing 734 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 8: childcare needs, work from home flexibility. Wow. A new survey 735 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 8: reported here first by NBC News this morning, is showing 736 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 8: the specific impact on women and the fact that working 737 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 8: women are experiencing a burnout epidemics. 738 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 3: I mean, COVID crushed me like COVID crushed me. I 739 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 3: you know, started the pandemic with girls credits, you know, 740 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 3: Super Bowl ad. I was having my newborn baby, you know, 741 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 3: and then COVID came around and now here I am 742 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 3: locked in the house my partner. I'm doing all the 743 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 3: dishes and the laundry. I'm taking care of a newborn. 744 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 3: I'm homeschooling, you know, a seven year old. I'm running 745 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 3: the largest women and girls nonprofit in the world, and 746 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 3: that's almost on the brink of potentially being shut down. 747 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 3: And I'm I'm freaking I got nothing. It's just it's 748 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 3: breaking me and my entire leadership team are working moms 749 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 3: and we're all just drowning. And you know, I just 750 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 3: I saw clearly the issue that I didn't see, Like, 751 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 3: how could I have not have seen this, this kind 752 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 3: of again, this fact that we have been doing two 753 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 3: and a half job the whole time, and that I 754 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 3: had bought into this thing, that we were even had 755 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 3: a shot at equality if we just got a mentor 756 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 3: if we just color coded our calendar, if we just 757 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: raised our hands more without thinking what we wanted to say, 758 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 3: if we were just braver, and none of all of 759 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: that was like this what I called the big lie 760 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 3: of corporate feminism. And I had been selling it like 761 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 3: I had been selling it, dishing it out, And. 762 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 6: This has really been your mission. You have for so long, 763 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 6: said young women and girls. You should be brave, you 764 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 6: should lean in, you should work harder. You wrote a 765 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,959 Speaker 6: best selling book about this. Brave not perfect, of course, 766 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 6: your ted talk. We've all watched it. But now you're 767 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 6: saying pandemic major rethink this. 768 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for the past decade, I told girls 769 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 3: to barnstorm the corner office, lean in, real hard, girl, 770 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 3: boss your way to the top. 771 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 2: And I was wrong. 772 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: It was so easy for many of us to fall 773 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: into this big lie, and even easier to feel guilt 774 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: when things didn't pan out as we were promised. Rushma 775 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: saw the problem and the guilt being play based on 776 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: women individually, and she now argues that the problem is systemic. 777 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: Her work now centers around this fight for culture change 778 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: with the Marshall Plan for moms. The ultimate pivot is 779 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: not just changing your career, but it's changing your mindset, 780 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: confronting the movement and choosing to live your life guilt free. 781 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 3: I live life, and I don't feel I used to 782 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 3: feel guilty about living life. 783 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about it. 784 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 3: I know you're shaking your eyes, yes, yes, yes, And 785 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 3: it's like and it's funny because I used to always 786 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 3: look at my husband, who is equally ambitious, equally successful, 787 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 3: and he never did, and a lot of men don't, 788 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 3: but we do as women, and so I don't want 789 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 3: to live like that anymore. 790 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: I'm not living like that anymore, Reshma. Unfortunately were out 791 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: of time. I could stay here literally all day and 792 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: talk to you. This has been inspiring, informative, fun, maybe 793 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: even dare I say thank you so much for joining 794 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: us all. 795 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: Thank you. 796 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: Reshma is still working on advocating for mothers through her organization, 797 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: The Marshall Plan for Moms and with her book Pay Up. 798 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: The Marshall Plan for Moms advocates for women's unpaid labor 799 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: in the home and aims to transform our workplaces, government, 800 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: and our culture to enable moms to thrive. Thank you 801 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of she Pivots, where I 802 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: talk with women about how their experiences and significant personal 803 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: events led to their pivot and eventually their success. To 804 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: learn more about Reshma and her latest book, follow us 805 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram at she Pivots the podcast. Leave a rating 806 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 1: and comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others 807 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: learn about it. A special thank you to our partner 808 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: Marie Clair and the team that made this episode possible. 809 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: Talk to you next week.