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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie Douglas, and

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Speaker 1: today we're talking about isolation, splendid isolation, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know if anyone out there catches the the title here

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Speaker 1: with itself of the title of a warrant Sevon song

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Speaker 1: that that I've always really done, because it has this

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Speaker 1: It starts off by going, uh, I want to live

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Speaker 1: alone in the desert. I want to be like Georgia O'Keefe.

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Speaker 1: I want to live on the Upper east Side and

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Speaker 1: never go down in the street like that. And it's

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of like it's it starts off with

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Speaker 1: this very very chipper kind of uh yeah, I wanna

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Speaker 1: I want to just get away from all these people.

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Speaker 1: I want to just you know, I want to move

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Speaker 1: away from all these two souful social constraints in my

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Speaker 1: life and just sort of do my own thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna be like George o'keef and move

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Speaker 1: out in the desert, or I'm gonna to isolate myself

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Speaker 1: and you know, focus on my art or my my

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Speaker 1: writing or my video games or whatever a person solitary

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Speaker 1: thing is. You know, I just want to point out,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen that Robert Lamb just just sing for you,

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Speaker 1: and no other circumstance would he ever sing. So that

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Speaker 1: was that was right. There are other circumstances where I sing.

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Speaker 1: You just don't really bust out songs much. So I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to to just say that was a really

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Speaker 1: special moment. Well, I think the thing is, we did

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Speaker 1: the Electronic Music podcast, and we we've used actual music

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Speaker 1: samples and that's all. I'm good, but it takes a

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Speaker 1: little more work. So it's it's not that I'm brave,

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Speaker 1: I'm just lazy because we could actually just sample the

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Speaker 1: Warren Yvon song, but or I could just sing it.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that the song in question starts off with

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Speaker 1: this very idealized I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get

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Speaker 1: to my isolation in my life. I'm gonna move away

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Speaker 1: from people and and social requirements and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be better for it. Well, I mean it's the hermit fantasy, right,

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Speaker 1: I Mean, every once in a while, we just get

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Speaker 1: sick of our fellow humans and we say, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm just done with all you guys. Yeah. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: if I could just be free of all of you,

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Speaker 1: I would be free of what ails me. That that

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Speaker 1: is an illusion. But like a lot of warren Zy

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Speaker 1: Fund songs, the lyrics get progressively darker as the song progresses.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and so by the end, the lyrics like

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Speaker 1: it's talking about Michael Jackson and Disney World taking Goofy's

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Speaker 1: hand and vanishing into the world of self, and which

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Speaker 1: is I think the darkest part of that song for

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. Yeah, I mean, because it's at

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Speaker 1: that point it's still kind of beautiful, but weird. It's

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Speaker 1: like just departing into into personal fantasy. And then by

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Speaker 1: the end he's talking about putting tinfoil up in the

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Speaker 1: windows and lying down in the dark to dream. And um,

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Speaker 1: and I find that when you when you look at

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Speaker 1: the research and when you look at human experience, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of how it goes. Like on one level,

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Speaker 1: there is the hermit fantasy. But when people actually do

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Speaker 1: find isolation, if they actually if it's thrust upon them,

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Speaker 1: or they seek it out, or they just sort of

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Speaker 1: find themselves there at some point in their life. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the effects are only detrimental um. Like what one example

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Speaker 1: that I come back to is U has to do

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Speaker 1: with one of my favorite authors, a guy in the

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Speaker 1: name of Clark Ashton Smith, who was a horror, fantasy,

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Speaker 1: sci fi, weird fiction writer of the early mid twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: and he ended up living kind of a hermit's life

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Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere. And while he lived

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Speaker 1: longer than either HP Lovecraft or Roberty Howard's sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, famous contemporaries at the at that time, he

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Speaker 1: ended up spending the like the last like large portion

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Speaker 1: of his life just sort He would do some art

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Speaker 1: and stuff, he would do some weird sculpture, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't really write that much anymore. So I'll come back

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Speaker 1: to that. I'll think of, like, here's a guy who

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Speaker 1: moved out into the middle of nowhere and really didn't

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Speaker 1: get that much done, or didn't get that much done

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Speaker 1: that anybody would ultimately care about. Well, I think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that he didn't write any movie because some of

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Speaker 1: that requires an understanding of relationships and and the way

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Speaker 1: that we interact with one another, right, and if you

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Speaker 1: don't would have that sort of feedback in your life,

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Speaker 1: than you could seriously lose touch with with that part

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Speaker 1: of yourself, part of your connition into the way that

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Speaker 1: our brains work, and our brains are quite simply not

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Speaker 1: meant to work in isolation. And so that's what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna discuss in this podcast. Before we do, though, let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and hit on some loneliness stats. Uh. These

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Speaker 1: are some stats I got out of a Psychology Today

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Speaker 1: article called predict Predictors of Loneliness um And through not

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Speaker 1: only in this article, but throughout the literature, you often

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Speaker 1: find references to lonely people and non lonely people. I

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Speaker 1: find non lonely people to be a very clunky term.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a better line to use,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think we just have to put up

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Speaker 1: with it. Um. So, lonely people were more likely in

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Speaker 1: studies to be younger, to have less sex, to get

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Speaker 1: less sleep, to make less money, and have more health issues,

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Speaker 1: with drug use being the number one health concern among

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Speaker 1: lonely people. Non lonely people were more likely to older,

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Speaker 1: to sleep eight to ten hours a night, to have

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Speaker 1: sex at least once a week or a few times

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Speaker 1: a month, describe themselves as a religious or spiritual U

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Speaker 1: have a spouse or partner who access as email or

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Speaker 1: the internet, daily volunteer, belonged to local community organization, have

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Speaker 1: five or more people with whom they discuss personal issues

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Speaker 1: and be married. So there you go. Well, and then

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Speaker 1: there's this idea of social isolation to right, um, And

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Speaker 1: this is from Molly Edmunds article on how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. It's called what are the Effects of Isolation

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Speaker 1: in the Mind? And according to researcher John Cacabo. Sorry

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Speaker 1: for our Italian listeners, if we have any um at

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Speaker 1: the University of Chicago, of all people are unhappy because

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Speaker 1: of social social isolation at any given moment. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: social isolation could occur for a myriad of factors, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean it could be because, uh, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: you're part of the senior population and you just don't

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Speaker 1: get to see people as often. Or could be that

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Speaker 1: you have a disability that limits the amount of interaction

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Speaker 1: you have with people, right, Yeah, and uh, and definitely

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Speaker 1: there's social isolation, and then there there's isolation as far

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Speaker 1: as your physical setting goes. And sometimes a person is

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Speaker 1: encountering both of these or just one of these, um as,

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Speaker 1: we'll discuss, right, And that's not to say that that

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Speaker 1: the senior population, where people of disabilities all are socially isolated.

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Speaker 1: It's just certain circumstances sort of lend themselves more to

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Speaker 1: that um happening. So, and we also have social isolation

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Speaker 1: that we foisted upon ourselves, and then there's also social

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Speaker 1: isolation that we then coerced into. And we'll talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that, particularly with the prison population, but

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what actually happens in the brain when

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Speaker 1: you are socially isolated. One study that I was looking

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Speaker 1: at was from the University of Chicago, and this, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of these, involved like two groups. There's the

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Speaker 1: no non lonely group and the in the group the

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Speaker 1: lonelies and the non lonelies, which you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: you just put out the call for it. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if it's easier to get the lonelies or easier to

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Speaker 1: get the non lonelies, because the non lonelies maybe have

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Speaker 1: stuff going on. And then do you run the risk

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Speaker 1: of poisoning your lonely test group by bringing them in

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Speaker 1: and having them hang out together, or do you just

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Speaker 1: make sure they're isolated? And I think you isolate them. Also,

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Speaker 1: there's a question about extrovert and introvert too. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: so as being part of this, Like, if you're an introvert,

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Speaker 1: you're probably more lonely. I would say I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because I'm a part time introvert, but I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: that I'm completely lonely. Okay. Anyway, this study University of

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Speaker 1: the University of Chicago. They showed the lonelies and the

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Speaker 1: non lonelies photographs of people in both pleasant settings and

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Speaker 1: unpleasant settings. So like one, uh, one photo will be

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Speaker 1: a person hanging out in a playground, and another one

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Speaker 1: will be a picture of somebody getting bit by a

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Speaker 1: poisonous snake in a playground. So okay, one's pleasant, one's

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Speaker 1: not pleasant, right so um. When viewing the pleasant pictures,

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Speaker 1: the non lonely subjects showed much more activity in the

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Speaker 1: section of the brain known as the event roll straight um,

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Speaker 1: more than the lonely subjects. Right and uh. This particular

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Speaker 1: part of the brain plays an important role in learning.

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Speaker 1: It's also the part of the brains the reward center

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Speaker 1: that's generally stimulated by things like food and love. So

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Speaker 1: the lonely subjects displayed far less activity in this region

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Speaker 1: while viewing pleasant pictures, and they also had less brain

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Speaker 1: activity when shown the unpleasant pictures. When non lonely subjects

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Speaker 1: view the unpleasant pictures, they demonstrated activity in the temporal

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Speaker 1: parietal junction, an area of the brain associated with empathy,

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Speaker 1: and the non lonely subjects had a had a much

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Speaker 1: lesser response. So this is an interesting view into how

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Speaker 1: loneliness affects our empathy. The non lonelies were able to

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Speaker 1: demonstrate more empathy for the person in the bad situation

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Speaker 1: in the unpleasant photo than the lonely people, which I

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Speaker 1: found found really interesting. Yeah. Well, and again that's because

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Speaker 1: you know, we've got the mirror neurons, right, We've talked

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Speaker 1: about mirror neurons and how we can't help but mimic

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Speaker 1: each other, and in mimicking each other, when we are

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Speaker 1: faced with each other and um communicating with with one another,

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Speaker 1: you know we are experienced an emotional jolt because we're mimicking.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're smiling at me, then I'm going

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Speaker 1: to smile back, and I'm going to feel that emotion.

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Speaker 1: So that makes sense that if you're isolated, then you're

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Speaker 1: not as connected to those feelings of empathy. Well, we

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Speaker 1: can't help but think of the the stereotype of the

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Speaker 1: crazy hermit with a shotgun, right, Yes, I wasn't thinking

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Speaker 1: shotgun now really I think shotgun or maybe pitchfork or something.

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Speaker 1: But well, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's different. You

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Speaker 1: grew up like in Michigan, right, but in the South,

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Speaker 1: which in theory actually shotgun should be you know, front

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Speaker 1: center in my mind. Okay, well, well, Michigan people know

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here. Okay, So the crazy hermit

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Speaker 1: with a shotgun, and the idea that he's going to

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Speaker 1: come up to you and he's going to be very

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Speaker 1: obtuse and belligerent and he's gonna be all, get off,

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Speaker 1: model daan Ander, I'll shoot you kind of a thing.

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Speaker 1: Um with that accent, with that accent, I guess that's

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Speaker 1: more of a that's my Michigan hermit accent. It would

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Speaker 1: be more Southern are No, I'll roll with that. But

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Speaker 1: that's interesting that you you look at it that way,

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Speaker 1: because people who undergo sensory deprivation, right, which is part

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Speaker 1: of isolation, they find that the central executive center of

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Speaker 1: their brains are affected, and those that part of the

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Speaker 1: brain controls language, memory, and vision. Yeah. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that a little bit more too when

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Speaker 1: we talk about prisoners and hostages. Okay, but but yeah,

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Speaker 1: just on a on a very basic level, you can

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Speaker 1: imagine the hermit who is not able to empathize with

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Speaker 1: the person. He's he's he's he's getting onto. He's maybe

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Speaker 1: not able to communicate as well, and he's his brain

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Speaker 1: seems a little foggy too because he has no or

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Speaker 1: very limited interaction with people, and and and it's affecting

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Speaker 1: his brain. It's crazy hermit brains. Well. And now that

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Speaker 1: he's probably really stressed, because apparently lenliness actually leads to stress.

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Speaker 1: And researchers have had subjects estimate room temperature. This is

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Speaker 1: interesting room temperatures after recalling a time that they were

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Speaker 1: snubbed or socially excluded, and the subjects reported colder temperatures

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Speaker 1: And this actually suggests that we can we can feel

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Speaker 1: this is you know, acting on our body or physiology,

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Speaker 1: you would feel. Now another interesting study that relates to

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Speaker 1: There have been various studies with mice where they look

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Speaker 1: at the effects of exercise on neurogenesis, which is u

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Speaker 1: creating a new brain cells, just basic brain upkeep I

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Speaker 1: guess you can think of it, uh in those terms.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the rewards of exercise, right right,

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Speaker 1: new neurons and neural connections, right yeah, and and another

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Speaker 1: great reason for exercise. So in these studies, they would

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Speaker 1: put the mice through the wheels and then then study,

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Speaker 1: closer neurological for humans. Yeah, And so they put these

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Speaker 1: And they're like, what happened? So they studied it and

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Speaker 1: they found that the problem was that these rats had

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Speaker 1: been isolated beforehand. Okay, rats are are very um, they're

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Speaker 1: very social, secial creatures, right, Yeah, that's why they're always

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Speaker 1: hanging out together, you know, chatting coffee houses, coffee houses.

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Speaker 1: And incidentally, as we discussed in the past, that's why

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Speaker 1: they can be tickled and laugh. That's actually you're right,

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Speaker 1: that can be We're not making that up. We have

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Speaker 1: to go back to our humor podcast for details on

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Speaker 1: that tidbit. Yeah. So they were putting them in there

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Speaker 1: without without any socialization. They've been isolated, and it actually

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Speaker 1: prevented the exercise from having a positive effect on brain activity. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they think that is because when when you undergo exercise,

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Speaker 1: it's a type of stress, right, and so the stress

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Speaker 1: Whereas you know with with the the rats that were socialized, right,

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Speaker 1: they did have they went back and there they started

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Speaker 1: socializing these rats. Then they were benefiting from the exercise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the solitary ones not at all. Yeah, which it

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Speaker 1: makes me think of the various sci fi films that

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Speaker 1: we've had where they'll be like a lone solitary person

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Speaker 1: in space, generally with some robots be it. You know,

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Speaker 1: Bruce Dearn and Silent Running, or Sam Rockwell in Moon

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Speaker 1: or or you know Joe Robinson on the Mystery Sentence

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Speaker 1: Theater to a lesser extent because they don't really get

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Speaker 1: into the science there. But you'll see somebody like running

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Speaker 1: going a little crazy and uh. And now that I

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Speaker 1: think about it, I'm like, well, Bruce Tern's character probably

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Speaker 1: isn't benefiting from any exercise that he's doing because he

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Speaker 1: thing that you say that, because they have noticed that

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Speaker 1: people who are in isolation and animals who are in

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Speaker 1: isolation begin to pace. And the reason they do this,

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Speaker 1: they pose it that because they don't they're not getting

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Speaker 1: this sort of stimulation that they would otherwise, they're creating

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Speaker 1: it for themselves. Like the brain needs constant input, it

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Speaker 1: turns out, and so being on a treadmill pacing back

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Speaker 1: something that your brain can play with, some sort of input. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like you you know how like some or maybe

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Speaker 1: a lot of I'm not really an engine person, guys.

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Speaker 1: But you'll have like an engine on a boat, right,

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Speaker 1: and it'll be designed to work in the water. It

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Speaker 1: will depend on the water. If you run it out

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Speaker 1: of the water too long, it's gonna overheat because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have water interacting with the mechanisms. I kind of

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Speaker 1: think of that in terms of the brain, because our

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Speaker 1: brains have evolved to help us navigate. As we've discussed before,

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Speaker 1: a world of fixed and movable objects, multiple fixed and

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Speaker 1: movable objects, a world of symbols, a world of social interaction,

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Speaker 1: and just evolutionary we've survival has selected for those those

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Speaker 1: those properties. So if you take us out of that

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Speaker 1: environment and put us in a situation where things are

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Speaker 1: not changing, where things are not moving, where there are

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Speaker 1: no symbols, or there's the same symbols are are there

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Speaker 1: and they're staying the same, and there's no social um

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Speaker 1: strata to deal with, then what does the brain start doing? Right,

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Speaker 1: as you say, it starts having to create work for itself.

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Speaker 1: It starts having to Uh, this is where you end

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Speaker 1: up with with situations of paranoia where someone has to

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Speaker 1: sort of aspire some sort of movement or logic to

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Speaker 1: the world around them. It needs a story to glom onto. Really. UM,

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Speaker 1: this was interesting. There's a documentary called Alone. It's documentary

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Speaker 1: by the BBC, and what they did is they recreated

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Speaker 1: an experiment from the nineteen fifties in which um, some

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Speaker 1: some college students were put in isolation for forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: And this documentary by a man with an axe, Yes

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Speaker 1: with this with the hockey mask on UM. But in

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Speaker 1: this documentary, what they did is they took six people

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Speaker 1: and isolating for forty eight hours in various ways. But

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Speaker 1: in the documentary, you see this woman becoming convinced that

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Speaker 1: the sheets on her bed that she's in complete darkness

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Speaker 1: by the way, are are sopping wet, and she becomes

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Speaker 1: very angry about it. And what's happening is that she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have that sensory input and so she's becoming confused

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Speaker 1: about the you know what she can pick up around her. Um,

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Speaker 1: And although the sheets were cold, they certainly weren't wet,

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Speaker 1: and so she couldn't accurately square her sensory perceptions with reality. Again,

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Speaker 1: that's that feedback that we really need. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: a it's also important to note and this is something

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Speaker 1: that's definitely been observed in prison systems with people in

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Speaker 1: solitary confinement. Is that there if there are pre existing

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Speaker 1: mental conditions, if there's any kind of um, you know,

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Speaker 1: psychosis going on already, Um, solitary confinement is just going

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Speaker 1: to aggravate it and make it worse. And and and

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Speaker 1: so people with with previousing conditions are going to be

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Speaker 1: able to cope with it far less. Yeah, And we'll

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that in a second. But um,

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Speaker 1: i'll write up this break, we'll talk more about that

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Speaker 1: BBC documentary. We're gonna leave you alone for a minute.

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Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors

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Speaker 1: of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe

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Speaker 1: curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at

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Speaker 1: curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. I thought you would be back. See

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Speaker 1: there's there's some feedback going on. Um, okay, So the

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Speaker 1: BBC documentary alone, they just more specifics on this. There

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Speaker 1: were six people. They're deprived of sensory input. Essentially, they're

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Speaker 1: put in solitary confinement for forty eight hours and observed

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Speaker 1: by researchers. UM. One of the findings is that around

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Speaker 1: thirty hours into the experiment they began to pace back

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Speaker 1: and forth, which we talked about and UM, it was

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Speaker 1: also noted that they began to hallucinate and they began

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Speaker 1: to get very aggressive. UM. And just so people know,

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Speaker 1: like there are two groups of three, one of them,

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Speaker 1: one of the groups were given UM these I think

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Speaker 1: they're called arm cuffs, and so they can't feel anything,

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Speaker 1: that just covers their entire arm. And then they are

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Speaker 1: also given goggles and so although the lights are on,

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Speaker 1: they can't see anything too clearly. It's just it's sort

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Speaker 1: of fuzzy. And then they they're given white noise or

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Speaker 1: sort of that's piped into their cell and a horror movie.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm sure, I'm sure, And part of me did wonder,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it's a documentary like where was the

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Speaker 1: anti upped? Psychologically, because when people know that they're being filmed,

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Speaker 1: obviously they behave in different ways. But then I thought

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Speaker 1: to myself, no, I think that anybody who is under

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Speaker 1: walk and key for forty eight hours by themselves, you know,

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Speaker 1: either with arm cuffs on and goggles and white noise

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Speaker 1: or in a cell that's completely dark for four hours

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Speaker 1: is going to start ago a little bit nuts and um. Again,

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Speaker 1: this was an experiment from the nineteen fifties that they

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Speaker 1: recreated for this documentary. There was a two thousand seven

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Speaker 1: study the ties in with this from the University of

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Speaker 1: Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine, and they reported that

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Speaker 1: anxiety and aggression that results from social isolation trace to

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Speaker 1: altered levels of an enzyme that controls production of a

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Speaker 1: brain hormone. The two enzymes that are needed for the

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Speaker 1: production of alo pregnant aline, a brain hormone that acts

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Speaker 1: to reduce stress, to the regulation of gabba um and

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Speaker 1: which is a really important neurotransmitter UH. They found that

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Speaker 1: the level of one of these enzymes, called five alpha

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Speaker 1: reductase type one, was reduced nearly fifty in lonesome mice UH,

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Speaker 1: and levels of the other enzyme did not change. But

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Speaker 1: but this is an interesting insight into how um, you know,

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Speaker 1: aggressive behavior emerges in isolated individuals or mice. Right, the

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Speaker 1: hermit becomes super as for the gun and starts freaking out. Yea,

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Speaker 1: I you you're going to bring it back to the hermit.

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Speaker 1: So isolation can't be used as a weapon. Yes it can. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: back go to your room. Well yeah, right, and in

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Speaker 1: the corner. And if you're depriving your kid of social

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Speaker 1: interaction and here's grounded, yes, and they have to go

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Speaker 1: in the room, then I mean obviously they're bothered by

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Speaker 1: unless they have access to their PlayStation and without no

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Speaker 1: no computer, no internet, grounded from the internet for a week. Well,

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Speaker 1: I never thought about it before. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have a kid. I never thought about it. Was like,

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Speaker 1: solitary confinement might go to your room. Okay, you have

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Speaker 1: to think about that. So the roots of that go

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Speaker 1: to the box. Kid. I'm gonna start saying that the

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Speaker 1: roots of this actually go back to dr Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: the roots of this or you know, this has gone

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Speaker 1: back for a very long time, this idea of solitary confinement.

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Speaker 1: But the first time a cave man was not invited

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Speaker 1: to a party, yeah, felt chills, ye, and then painted

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Speaker 1: about it in the cave. Uh. Doctor Donald Hebb, he

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Speaker 1: was a prominent fixture in the nineteen fifties and sixties

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Speaker 1: psychology community. Um, and there's not a lot of definitive

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Speaker 1: information about his experiments with isolation. It's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: the heaven. Some people who say that he was sort

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Speaker 1: of the feeder system for the CIA in terms of

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Speaker 1: how they conduct torture then and even now today. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we do know that he had student volunteers at

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Speaker 1: McGill University where he was the head of psychology. Uh,

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Speaker 1: put on UM goggles, gloves and ear muffs and then

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Speaker 1: he put them in air conditioning cubicles and low and

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Speaker 1: behold in twenty four hours hallucinations four to eight hours.

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Speaker 1: They suffered complete breakdowns. Uh. And he noticed he noticed

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Speaker 1: that they also suffered a disintegration of personality. And this

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Speaker 1: is very again similar to the torture techniques used at

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Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay. His research was eventually tagged is too cruel

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Speaker 1: and shut down. UM, but we do know from this

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Speaker 1: research that this just could be very effective as a

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Speaker 1: means of torture or as a weapon of of trying

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Speaker 1: to get someone to um been to your will, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. UM. In the BBC documentary again, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know this was a recreation of of what heb had done.

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Speaker 1: And you see this comedian who's who's one of the

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Speaker 1: participants in this documentary, and he's the first to crack

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Speaker 1: and you think about it, and this is this really

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Speaker 1: extroverted guy who depends on feedback from his audience all

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Speaker 1: the time, needs it, craves it. So it's very interesting

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Speaker 1: to see that behavior began to show up very early on,

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Speaker 1: so we know they began to get agitated, they began

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Speaker 1: to hallucinate. But by the end of their stay in

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Speaker 1: the documentary, it turns out that their memory and their

426
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: information processing abilities were tested or retested, because they were

427
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: tested at the beginning and they were found to be

428
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: quite compromised, which would make sense because while they were

429
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: in the tank, they were basically in a reality to

430
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: the program. They were in a reality TV program. Their

431
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: their minds were sapped. Yes, their minds were sapped, um,

432
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: but also like the circadian rhythms, within within hours, they

433
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: began to to lose touch of what time it was,

434
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: and the circadian rhythms just sort of failed them and

435
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: they began to nap and um think that, oh, well,

436
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: it must be nighttime and while away the time in

437
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: that manner. Yeah, I mean, it just goes back to

438
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: we are beings that have evolved to live in a

439
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: certain environment, and if we're in an altered environment or

440
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: we're taken out of that environment entirely. Um. It's detrimental

441
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: to how we work so um, which is why it's

442
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: so effective. And in a place like Guantanamo, right right,

443
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to to do anything physically cruel when

444
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: you can just say, well, I'm not going to you know,

445
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm not going to break your fingers, I'm not going

446
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: to beat you. I'm just going to leave you alone

447
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: until that loneliness drive you nights. Yeah. And this is

448
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: from a Wired article and Solitary confinement um, in which

449
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: they talked to psychologist Greg Haney, and he says that

450
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: it's not just that psychological isolation is a painful experience,

451
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: but that when people's sense of themselves is placed in jeopardy,

452
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: they are more malleable and easily manipulated. In a certain sense.

453
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: Solitary confinement is thought to enhance the effectiveness of other

454
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: torture techniques, so it's used to break down the person. Yeah,

455
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 1: and in general, Yeah, we interact with people. It's kind

456
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: of like I was talking about it earlier. You have

457
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: that that temptation. No, this isn't another podcast. Sorry, we're

458
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: talking about something bothers you. And even if you're if

459
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: there's no one around the vent to you might be

460
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: attempted to go on the internet to vent about your

461
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: pet peeve. Well, part of that is is we're reaching out.

462
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: We have to have somebody else sort of tell us, Yeah,

463
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: that is So this is the way the world works,

464
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: doesn't it. Yes, this is the way the world works.

465
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: This is how I work, right, Yes, this is how

466
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: you work. Someone that will agree with you, like, yeah, um,

467
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: you know that reality shows totally are annoying, Like, you know,

468
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: I just did you verified you know what I just

469
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: said and validated my my belief system. Well, it's this

470
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: the story of I, right, And we've talked about this

471
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: before too, unconscious or consciousness, the story of I that

472
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: we continually are feeding data to. So once you write,

473
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: once you take away the feedback, then then who am I?

474
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: Without that we'll get more into space and a little bit.

475
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: But NASA, of course, is very interested in how isolation

476
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: affects us, you know, because they're very interested in sending

477
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: people into isolated environments far from the Earth and far

478
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: often from from most other people. So uh, they have

479
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: they have found that one of the things they have

480
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on is that you'll say so

481
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: you have eight people living in close confines, annoying the

482
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: heck out of each other, and then who are they

483
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: going to vent to? They can't vent to each other

484
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: because you know, most of the time you're gonna have

485
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: a little more decorum than that. You know, if if

486
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: you if you're stuck in a in a tube with

487
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: John and Sally and John keeps smacking his gum um,

488
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: you know you're not gonna complain to to you know,

489
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: to the to this guy about it. You're man to

490
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: that person for five more months. Yeah, So they found

491
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: that it's it's very much an item of concern. They

492
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 1: found that journal keeping actually helps because it helps peo

493
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: put sort of a they're venting, but then they're also

494
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: they're forced to really think about how they're feeling about things.

495
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: Like they they did a study where they uh took

496
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: ten people on the International International Space Station and they

497
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: had to keep a journal and it just, you know,

498
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: generated like something like a thousand and something pages. It

499
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: was a lot of a lot of journal writing came

500
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: of this. But the people would generally they would start

501
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: off being like, oh man, this sucks, but then they

502
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: were forced to think, well, actually, the International Space station

503
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: is pretty cool, and it's you know, the situation is

504
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: not that bad really, and so they have to actually, um,

505
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: look at at how they're feeling about that they were

506
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: reframing it right so that they could survive, which is

507
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: really interesting because that's something that a lot of prisoners do,

508
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: specifically prisoners who are in solitary confinement. And it's estimated

509
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: that there's about twenty five thousand prisoners sitting in solitary

510
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: confinement right now in the us u UM. And when

511
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: we talk about solitary confinement, we're talking about a six

512
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: by eight foot sale right uh no windows, and prisoners

513
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: are held there anywhere from like ten to fifteen days

514
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: at a stretch. And they have been reports of people

515
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: saying that they really they went into themselves when they

516
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: had sensory deprivation. They were able to actually bring up

517
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: sights and smells from their past and get lost in

518
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: these four hours. And but but the downside of this,

519
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: of course, I mean, well there's no upside of this, right, um,

520
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: mayan because the ability to go into yourself and to

521
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: survive is certainly something we'll remember. I think maybe I

522
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: can't remember you brought it up or a listener brought

523
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: it up after we had talked about the memory palace.

524
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: They mentioned that in the book Silence of the Lambs,

525
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: Hannibal lecter Um cops with his confinement by using the

526
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: memory palace to construct this kind of place for him

527
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: to go, and then he paints like pictures on the

528
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: wall and stuff. But um, right, but then he also

529
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: had access to things to stimulate his mind. But when

530
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: you're in solitary confinement, I mean, it's it's a bed,

531
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: it's the fluorescent lights are on for twenty four hours,

532
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: and although you can hear things around you, you are alone.

533
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: You are not really interacting. Um. And so yeah, I

534
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: mean people they do go them into themselves, but what

535
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: happens is that they're actually having some very big problems

536
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: with their memory. I mean people who have been in

537
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: a solitary confinement. There's one guy who was in um,

538
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: I think, in and out for like eighteen years, and

539
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: then he was cleared of his crime, and ten years

540
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: later he still says that he has problems with memory,

541
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: problems with interacting with people, and also problems with navigating.

542
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: Which is interesting because you know, we've talked about the

543
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: visual cortex and how important it is for memory, and

544
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: you know, you walk into a room, you're you're actually

545
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: trying to blueprint that room in your mind. Uh. So

546
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: it would make sense that if you were stuck in

547
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: this one place for so very long and uh you know,

548
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: eighteen years and now you're out of it, then your

549
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: context for the world world greatly changes. Um, well, and

550
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: you end up. I mean, the list of symptoms that

551
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: people have experienced from solitary environment the prison situation. I mean,

552
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: it includes stuff like the depression to spare anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations,

553
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: problems with impulse control of impaired vision and hearing, weaking

554
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: of the immune system, absence of menstrual periods and women

555
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: premature menopause, aggressive behavior, and prisoners. Um. I mean it

556
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: just that's that was interesting them. The menstruation too, because

557
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: you wouldn't think of that as something that was dependent

558
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: upon feedback. You know, that's something that just regularly happens. Right,

559
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: But when you're taking if you're taken out of the

560
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: rhythms of life, then it's greatly going to alter you

561
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: at a physical level too, right, Um. And Hany actually

562
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: talks about the fact that we don't know the long

563
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: term effects. And the reason is because we don't have

564
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: good data on follow ups of people who come out

565
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: of the environment. It's not something that's easy to study,

566
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily something that prison systems are eager

567
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: for people to have a look at. Right. UM. I

568
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: wanted to mention too that that documentary talked to a

569
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: university professor by the name of Brian Keenan and he

570
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: was taken hostage in Beirut and held in a windowless

571
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: cell for eight months. Um. And he can't up for

572
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: ten minutes at a time, and a walk the staircase constantly. Um.

573
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: And the reason I bring him up is because I

574
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: thought that his personal assessment of the situation was very

575
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: interesting and we can sit here and talk about you know,

576
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: here are the effects. It's you know, it's a cognitive impairments.

577
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: But he said the nothingness was extremely hard because it

578
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: was how am I going to get through these next

579
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: ten minutes or months later? How am I going to

580
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: get through the next day? The blackness was palpable. There

581
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: was nothing there to confirm to me that there was

582
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: human existence outside of me or even inside of me,

583
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: which is really chilling. Because I thought, well, that just

584
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: points back to this idea that your life becomes a

585
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: joy division song. It's that is that could be chilling,

586
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: you know if it's aun But again, this's this idea

587
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: that you yourself, your sense of self becomes completely fragmented,

588
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: you lose yourself. Now. One of the more newsworthy stories

589
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: of isolation to occur in the last few years was,

590
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: of course, the thirty three Chilian miners that spent sixty

591
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: nine days trapped deep underground until they were finally brought

592
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: to the surface on October two thousand ten, and just

593
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: getting them out it took about twenty four hours. But

594
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: but it was a really tense situation because you had

595
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: thirty three people down there and had to get them out,

596
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: had to figure out how to make sure that they're

597
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: staying healthy and sane down there. Um. And they eventually

598
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: brought in NASA for advice. But weirdly enough, this was

599
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: in a popular science article. Um, they had sent down

600
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: some music to help them pass the time. But also

601
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: they sit down on monopoly board, which I know we're

602
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: probably there's some probably some lest there's out there who

603
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: are fans of monopoly, but uh, we all know that

604
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: monopoly is an intensely irritating game. I mean, even if

605
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: you enjoy, you've got to admit that, even in the

606
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: best of situations, it can cause close friends and loved

607
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: ones to try and stab each other and I with

608
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: forks um or scald each other with pizza or just

609
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a brutal pizza. There's specific Yeah, well,

610
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of a party party atmosphere turning violent,

611
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, or stabbing somebody with pizza who was sharp enough.

612
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, there have been articles about how Monopoly

613
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: is a zero sum game like it and it brings

614
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: out the worst in people because it's it's not about

615
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: like working together as much. It's about brutally smacking down

616
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: your opponent. And it also takes forever. Monopoly games tend

617
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: to it to last until the wee hours or until

618
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: the first person bleeds, and so and so. So the

619
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: idea of sending this game down to people who are

620
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: trapped in an isolated environment, who are already stressed, it

621
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: just seems insane. Like were they trying to get them

622
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: to turn on each other? And uh and and like

623
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: just pummeling each other to death so nobody don't have

624
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: to worry about dragging them back to the surface. Again,

625
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm just saying monopoly sounds like a very odd choice.

626
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: I think that you're going to have to talk to

627
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: to whoever manages these sort of crises and say, you

628
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: know what this is, this is my what were you

629
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: thinking of acceptable games to stand down the hall? Yeah?

630
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: Any anything that is well shoots and ladder, Yeah, I

631
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: don't know, there's not there's not a lot of engagement.

632
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: And well that's the problem. It's a game. I mean,

633
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: there's a foster's competition, not collaboration for the most part. Well,

634
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: there there are a lot of fine collaborative games there.

635
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: But anyway, I'm getting I'm getting off the point here.

636
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: But but yes, I mean they're gonna like Larpe down there.

637
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, there's not in the room for

638
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: Larkin's um or or any large scale board games or

639
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: tabletop cans. But at any rate, people working everyone was

640
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: rightfully concerned about the physical and mental being of these individuals,

641
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: and so NASA was actually brought in to advise in

642
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: the situation, since they've have done studies and have some

643
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: resident experts on the topic of isolation. Yeah, and in

644
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: fact it is from now so that we get this

645
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: term irrational antagonism, right, This is the term that describes

646
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: what happens to people who are isolated together, which you

647
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit with people on missions roommates

648
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: in space. Basically, yeah, yeah, familiarity breeds contempt exactly. So,

649
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, one of the things that astronauts

650
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: have talked about is that you're in this close environment

651
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: and you you may feel anger at your your other astronauts,

652
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: but but in most of the most of the cases,

653
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: you don't want to vent it because you feel like

654
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: you'll make the situation worse. So you end up with

655
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: this kind of silent antagonism. Growing. Yeah, you're either journaling

656
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: or you're blaming it on other people other than your

657
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: fellow astronauts. Right, You're blaming it on mission control. Yeah, yeah.

658
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: Mission control apparently is often the scapegoat for a lot

659
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: of this anger because you're also up in a very

660
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: risky situation. You're basically kind of like mountain climbing, and

661
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: everybody's attached to the same wire. You don't want to

662
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,479
Speaker 1: set off any fireworks. These guys are are you're in space,

663
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: You're depending on each other to get back home safely.

664
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: And and so you lay it cool and then you

665
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: just let ground control have it. Every little thing light

666
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: into them. Yeah, the punching bag of the astronaut. So

667
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: so I found I found that particularly interesting. And uh

668
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: Mary Wroach actually talks about this a lot in her

669
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: book on Mars, m Talking for Mars, which is filled

670
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: with all sorts of curious stuff about the space program.

671
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: But she had one particular quote that we were both

672
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: really amused about. It had to do with I believe

673
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: us submariners, right, I believe the submariners. And they were

674
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: at a research station, and so when they were finally

675
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: taken out of their confinement, um, and this is a

676
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: quote from her book there, this is what they had

677
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: to say about it. I once met a man who

678
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: told me that after landing in christ Church after a

679
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: winter at the South Pole Research Station, he and his

680
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: companions spent a couple of days just wandering around stare

681
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: ring in awe at flowers and trees. At one point,

682
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: one of them spotted a woman pushing a stroller a baby.

683
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: He shouted and they all rushed across the street to

684
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: see the woman turned the turn the stroller and ran

685
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: so isolation could potentially turn you into a baby chasing maniac. Yes,

686
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: and it would make sense because if you're if you're

687
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: isolated for six months, because even like a week, you know,

688
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're you're out and you see

689
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: the sun and the leaves and you see the sun

690
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: just you know, dappling the leaves in a newborn baby smile.

691
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: And I mean, all of a sudden, you're This the

692
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: a cliche of a song, right yeah. Roach also credits

693
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: an interview with Norbert Craft's another individual NASA and Kraft

694
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: mentioned that there had been some research into the possibility

695
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: of sending married couples into space to limit to limit

696
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: some of the the negative vibes that might happen up

697
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: there and some of the feelings of isolation. I get

698
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: the isolation part, but I do not, I mean the whole,

699
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: like familiarity breeds contempt art. I mean, I just don't

700
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: see a lot of marriages actually surviving. Um. And I

701
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: say this just personally and made mabe this could happen.

702
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: But UM, I love my spouse, he's wonderful. I don't

703
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: necessarily want to work with him, and I don't want

704
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: to be stuck in a capsule with him for six months.

705
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: Well it's like, I mean, it's like that, I don't

706
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: want to be in a capsule for six months. So

707
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: there you go. Well, it's like the whole canoeing thing.

708
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: Canoeing as a test of relationship. Yeah, which my wife

709
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: and I survived canoeing twice so far, I think. But yeah,

710
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: this is like the ultimate, Like this is even more

711
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: than canoeing. And I don't know, I don't know if

712
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: there are many marriages out there that are up to

713
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: the test. Well, see now that you say that my

714
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: my husband and I loved a canoe and when we

715
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: lived in North Carolina we did it every weekend. But

716
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: it does require like you couldn't be mad at each

717
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: other in canoe, right, because you have to collaborate. Yeah,

718
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: you have to collaborate and if you get mad, you

719
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: have to work through it. Otherwise you're not going to

720
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: make it to your destination or you're just gonna float

721
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: around out there in the middle of the lake until

722
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: somebody comes and fetches you in a boat. Yeah again,

723
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there in your arms crossed. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

724
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this too in terms of relationships

725
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: that the isolation effect in families. Um, I think this

726
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why families stay in business,

727
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: because have you ever thought about this, Like when you've

728
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: been isolated or alone for a long period of time

729
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: and end and maybe there's a family member who's driving

730
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: you nuts, and yet you still pick up the phone

731
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: to call that person. I mean, this is really keeps

732
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: moms in business. I think, Well, it makes me think

733
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: of um, my wife sent and Judy, who has these

734
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: two she has these two horses, and these horses hate

735
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: each other, or one one in particular hates the other one,

736
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: and it will if it gets a chance, it will

737
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: bite it the horse and just just want to just

738
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: bite it and kick it and just just a real jerk.

739
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: But if they're separated, then the horse freaks out and

740
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: it's like, where is my friend? Where is that horse?

741
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: So that I might bite him? You know, and you

742
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: completely other horse? Yeah, I know, and I've again, I

743
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: think it's because it's pointing back at itself, right, because

744
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: the same thing if I'm calling let's say that you know,

745
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: my mom and I have been in a bit of

746
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: a tizzy, and yet if I'm not feeling great or

747
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: I'm feeling lonely, I will call her, even though I

748
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: know that she might say something to sort of drive

749
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: me nuts. I think simply because well because I love her,

750
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: but be because it's sort of validates like us, Yeah,

751
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: the story of you the I Yep, that's right, I'm

752
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: your mom and that's all true. You exist. There, you go.

753
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: That's that's all you need to know, right there, and

754
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: that is why we are all manacled to one another.

755
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, human isolation, it's definitely something that, uh that

756
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: may seem more attractive on the outside than it actually is.

757
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: Especially you know, if we're really busy people, you may

758
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: end up fantasizing about like, oh if I had everything

759
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: to myself for like a weekend, if I was Georgia O'Keefe. Yeah,

760
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: if I was Georgia O'Keefe, everything would be knocked. But

761
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: it's not only the case, Like I, I actually have

762
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: this where I'll look at my own life specifically that

763
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about, like writing, like finding time to right,

764
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: which takes up a lot of time, requires generally requires isolation,

765
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: and it's just hard to fit into the schedule of

766
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: a busy life. Um, you know, talking about outside of work,

767
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: right and I'll think back to times in my life

768
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: where I had lots of free time, where there was

769
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: probably a fair amount of loneliness in my life, but

770
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 1: I didn't get a lot of work done in those

771
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: times either. You know, it's it's because you're procrastinating. Well,

772
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: we've talked about well, I think there's a lot going on,

773
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, and obviously if you're isolated and your lonely,

774
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: your your brains just not working as well, and your

775
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: your time management, at least for me, ends up going

776
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: out of whack too if I'm by myself. So I'll

777
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: look back at these times and I'll and I'll I

778
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: have to remind myself it's like, well, you had plenty

779
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: of free time, then you didn't get get anything done,

780
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: because it's only I feel like it's only when I'm

781
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: really busy, when I'm having to find the time to

782
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: fit things in, that I can actually maximize those times.

783
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: And when I have, you know, enough social activity in

784
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: my life and enough people in my life to give

785
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: it all some sort of meaning. Well, the truth of

786
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: the matter is that people are stimulating even though they

787
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: make you know, annoy us sometimes or I might annoy someone,

788
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: or someone might annoy me. But you know, we're always

789
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: after a new experience, and we need those new experiences

790
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: to you know, literally grow our brain cells. Um so,

791
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: and it would make sense that that would inform our

792
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: creativity and our ability to create. YEA. So like it

793
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: or not, you know, we're we're shared up with with

794
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: our fellow humans. So speaking of our fellow humans, I

795
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: have a couple of emails to read here for us

796
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: from some listeners and we listener by the name of

797
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: David and David says, I love your recent episodes where

798
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: you have delved into philosophical topics. I especially love the

799
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: podcast entitled His Free Will and Illusion, as well as

800
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: the one about the possibility of acute Earth. I do

801
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: hope that you keep doing some more philosophical topics, UM.

802
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: I would enjoy especially enjoy one on morality, ethics and

803
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: health science can or cannot inform morality. UM also an

804
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: an episode examining a Descartes famous axiom. I think, therefore

805
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: I am would be awesome. I think that everyone is

806
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: a philosopher, but not everyone knows it. People are often

807
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: driven away from philosophy due to the fact that philosophers

808
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: can be an intolerable lot. But behind all of the

809
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: sometimes pretentious philosophical jargon are the questions that we all

810
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: grapple with. You guys can put alienating concepts into everyday

811
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,959
Speaker 1: language that both phil philosophers and non philosophers can both enjoy.

812
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: So keep up the good work here, mix of science

813
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: and philosophy the spot. Thank you that. That's good to

814
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: know that people are enjoying that. Yeah, I feel like

815
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: we try and inject a fair amount of philosophy into

816
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: whatever we're talking about, because ultimately, like that's the whole

817
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: like mind blowing areas where we have to fit ourselves

818
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: in our own experience, into this new knowledge and and

819
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: figure out how our view of everything relates to it.

820
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: So true, and certainly philosophers can be a little off

821
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: puting It's true it's the beards. The beards. Not all

822
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: philosophers have beards, and not all lady philosophers have beards either. Well,

823
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: in the case you're wondering, even though I know some philo,

824
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: I mean I have known philosophers, and I can definitely

825
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: identify rule people that are philosophers. I also I hear

826
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: philosophers and I can't help but think like marble statue

827
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: of some old dude. Well, yeah, well means that's that's

828
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: just the patriarchal society, and yeah it it does draw

829
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: back to the whole idea that, like philosophy, is often

830
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: viewed as this this thing that is no longer relevant.

831
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: But as we've discussed in previous episodes, new advances in neuroscience,

832
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: new advances in our understanding of the universe, these forces

833
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: to sometimes reevaluate old philosophical questions or or stir up

834
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: new philosophical debates, like the whole issue of consciousness and

835
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: free will, or the idea of are are we alone

836
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: in the universe or are we just one of other

837
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: of numerous species. It's the underpinnings of society, right. We

838
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: can't really operate without having a philosophical discussion about things exactly.

839
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: We also heard from a listener by the name of

840
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: Megan Megan Rights and says, I want to start off

841
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: by telling you what a big fan I am. I

842
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 1: really love the wide breath topics you cover. I always

843
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: feel like by the time of the podcast US is over,

844
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: I am just a little bit smarter about something. Uh.

845
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: In the listener mail section of a recent episode, what

846
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: if Earth was a cube? The idea of actors being

847
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: the biggest liars in the world was brought up as

848
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: a professional actor who was of conservatorially trained. I am

849
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: both amused and slightly put off. Actors do not lie.

850
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: We create alternate realities. I feel very strongly about this,

851
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: even though I know that not everyone will agree with me.

852
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: In my experience, it is obviously the audience when an

853
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 1: actor is lying because he she is not really living

854
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: in the circumstances that have been created by the play,

855
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: and the audience feels and quite honestly is jip uh.

856
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: If we want to twelve really deeply into it, it

857
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: goes back to creating a lie so detailed that you

858
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: can believe it is reality. And this is where some

859
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: actors get into trouble when they decide to really become

860
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: their character for something more than the purpose of telling

861
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: the story to the audience. I'm going to stop here

862
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: before my points become too confusing. Thank you for all

863
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: your hard work. That's really interesting. I was thinking about

864
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: fiction writing too. They always say, like, you know, even

865
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 1: though you're we being a tale, it should be as

866
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: truthful as possible. Yeah, it should mirror truth. So it's

867
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: great to hear from an actual actor about about about

868
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: that about the idea of acting as as lie, but

869
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: also in the in the podcast, I mean, the whole

870
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: thing we're discussing too, is the idea of lying as

871
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: an alteration of reality. I feel like there's a there's

872
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: a little gift a pike from both of those. Yeah,

873
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: they're not the same, but there are some definite links

874
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: between what they're doing. Yeah, that's an interesting perspective from Megan. Yeah, yeah, definitely,

875
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: Thanks Megan for your feedback on that. And if you

876
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: have feedback on something, if you have some sort of

877
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: cool story you want to share, if if you have

878
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: a particular area of expertise that aligns up with something

879
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, hunt us down. We are on

880
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter. We are Blow the Mind on both

881
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: of those and you can see all sorts of stuff

882
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: we're up to and what we're reading about, what we're researching,

883
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: what we're considering podcasting about as well, and you can

884
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: always drop us online at Below the Mind at how

885
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: stuff courts dot com. Be sure to check out our

886
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how stafwork

887
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities

888
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: of tomorrow,