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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: And now we are joined by Galaxy Digital founder and

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Speaker 2: CEO Mike Novogratz, and let's just start with the simple things.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with bitcoin in the crypto world, because we're

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Speaker 2: flirting with that seventy thousand dollars level and you sit here,

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Speaker 2: we have been around this space for a while. Now,

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Speaker 2: is there more upside risk or downside risk as you

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Speaker 2: see it now in the crypto world?

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Speaker 3: Listen, I think we're getting skewed to the upside. I

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Speaker 3: mean just the fact that we're here at a crypto

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Speaker 3: show and Bloomberg shows how long we've come since twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: sixteen seventeen.

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Speaker 1: But we kind of got to the finish line.

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Speaker 3: And when I say that DC has finally agreed in

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Speaker 3: principle that crypto legislation has to happen, that it should

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Speaker 3: be bipartisan, we still have a couple holdouts, but it's

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Speaker 3: the last few weeks have been unbelievably positive in pushing

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Speaker 3: the Democrats forward. Seeing this, they don't want it to

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Speaker 3: be a political issue, and so that which was a

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Speaker 3: headwind is becoming a tailwind. It's not a full tail

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Speaker 3: win yet, we have governments that can't stop spending money,

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Speaker 3: and so that just is so powerful for the bitcoin narrative.

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Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, you hear, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: the state of was constant's pension.

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Speaker 1: Fun about one hundred and forty million dollars a bitcoin.

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Speaker 3: And so as we get more pension funds in more institutions,

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Speaker 3: and you know, there's not a lot of sellers.

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Speaker 2: So the question we know you hate, then where do

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Speaker 2: we end the year.

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Speaker 3: Listen, if we take out the seventy three thousand in

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Speaker 3: the next week or so, we're going to end the

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Speaker 3: year on one hundred thousand somewhere around there.

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Speaker 1: We're even hire.

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Speaker 3: Markets work, they create ranges, and when the ranges, the

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Speaker 3: top of the range breaks, you know you have a

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Speaker 3: nice extension. And so you know at the bottom of

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Speaker 3: that range was started around forty, so forty to seventy.

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Speaker 3: This seventy goes to one hundred, and so that's a

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Speaker 3: good enough target.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we saw a spot bitcoin etf sorry to get

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Speaker 4: approved this year, and we've seen a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of inflows there.

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Speaker 4: So it makes me wonder what the next catalyst is

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Speaker 4: for bitcoin to actually break seventy three and get to

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Speaker 4: hear your in target of one hundred thousand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I had had the same question, asked me, I

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Speaker 3: don't know five weeks ago, and I said, I don't

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Speaker 3: think it will unless we get one of two things happen.

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Speaker 3: More regulatory clarity, which I thought was a low probability

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Speaker 3: at that point, and or the FED starting to move.

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Speaker 3: We're getting the regulatory clarity, and even though it's not perfect,

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Speaker 3: we got enough.

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Speaker 1: That people now realize this is coming. And why is

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Speaker 1: that important? What does it mean?

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Speaker 3: So if SABE one, this arcade accounting bill and in

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Speaker 3: time gets overturned, it allows Bank of New York and

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Speaker 3: State Street and.

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Speaker 1: Others to get into custody.

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Speaker 3: If the infrastructure build, If the FIT twenty one bill

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Speaker 3: gets approved, it allows Goldman Sachs and City Bank and

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Speaker 3: all these other people to start doing sales and trading.

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Speaker 3: And so as you bring those institutions in, huge money follows.

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Speaker 4: The Biden White House said it would veto that overturning.

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Speaker 3: The Biden White House vetoed the ZAB twenty one, and

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Speaker 3: then they said they they wouldn't veto, and so they

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Speaker 3: were talking. This is really sad what happened. Because Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump stole the show. He basically came out and said,

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Speaker 3: I'm your crypto president. The same day Biden had said

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Speaker 3: he was going to veto this thing. Why would a

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Speaker 3: president sitting president talk about vetoing a arcane accounting rule?

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Speaker 3: And so that turned the whole crypto community into Trump's

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Speaker 3: corner and almost was like a purity test. People said,

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Speaker 3: if you don't vote for Trump, you're not a crypto person.

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Speaker 3: And finally the Democrats heard and so real quickly, nine

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Speaker 3: Democratic senators voted not to support that accounting rule, against

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren's wishes, against the SEC's.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to steal Tim's question here, he asked all

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Speaker 2: our guests, is I'm going to ask you at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, who would be better for bitcoin?

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Speaker 2: Who would be better for crypto? Trump or Biden.

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Speaker 3: What is so clear to me is it's the wrong question.

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Speaker 3: What is good for our industry is a bipartisan support

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Speaker 3: of bills. Otherwise you're going to be student Buney left,

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Speaker 3: student Boddy right. Listen, these elections are going to swing

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Speaker 3: back and forth for a while, and so crypto shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be partisan.

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Speaker 1: The short answer is, right now, Trump.

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Speaker 3: Would because he says I'm crypto president, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do all this stuff. But really that's a short it's

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Speaker 3: a short term way of looking at things. What we've

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Speaker 3: done a really great job of and shout out to

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Speaker 3: Brian Armstrong and lots of people in.

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Speaker 1: The industry of our own time. You know, we've got

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Speaker 1: our own.

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Speaker 3: Lobbyist in DC is educating people on both sides. And

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Speaker 3: there are tons of Democrats that are for good crypto legislation.

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Speaker 2: Now, so many people who are pouring money into elections

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Speaker 2: right now and into lobbying from the crypto community.

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Speaker 1: What's this scale? How much influence do they really have?

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Speaker 2: As someone frankly Mike was a traditional way donor as

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Speaker 2: well as a crypto donor, the.

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Speaker 3: Scale has gotten big. That's why the Democrats woke up.

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Speaker 3: There's been about one hundred and fifty million on it's

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Speaker 3: way to two hundred and fifty million dollars in these

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Speaker 3: crypto superpacks.

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Speaker 1: That's not all crypto money.

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Speaker 3: What happened was when the Democrats kept saying we don't

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Speaker 3: like crypto, and again it was a very small group.

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Speaker 3: It was Elizabeth Ward who said, I want to have

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Speaker 3: an anti crypto army. The way politics work in DC

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Speaker 3: is every Senator doesn't know every issue, they look to

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Speaker 3: the leader of that committee. So Elizabeth really was running

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Speaker 3: crypto for the Democrats, and she hates crypto. So all

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Speaker 3: that money started to look like Republican money, even though

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Speaker 3: it was supposed to be bipartisan and focused on really

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Speaker 3: key races.

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Speaker 1: Shared Brown's race, John Tester's race.

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Speaker 4: What would you say to someone watching right now who

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Speaker 4: might say, you know what, the SEC and lawmakers it's

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Speaker 4: their job to protect people from getting involved in things

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Speaker 4: that could hurt them. And there are some people out

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Speaker 4: there who say, well, there are a lot of people

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Speaker 4: out there who say, I don't want touch crypto because

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Speaker 4: I've seen how of all little it can be, and

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's something that, you know, mom and

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Speaker 4: pop folks should have in their portfolios.

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Speaker 1: I see you laughing, Mike.

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Speaker 3: Well, because Kai, frankly, anyone who bought big with the

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Speaker 3: exception of one or two people that bought it over

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Speaker 3: seventy thousand has made money. You know, Like, if you

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Speaker 3: bought that codin held it like most bigcoiners do, you're

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Speaker 3: in the money. So they're protecting them against making money.

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Speaker 3: That makes no sense. Listen, there have been frauds. There

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Speaker 3: have been lots of you know, shenanigans in this crypto space,

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Speaker 3: and those need to be prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: And they were.

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Speaker 3: They were prosecuted, they were pushed out of the system.

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Speaker 3: Sam Bankman's freeze in jail. Other people will go to jail.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm not saying this was a lilly white

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Speaker 3: industry any in any space, but this idea that we've

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Speaker 3: got to protect somebody from this new technology that cuts

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Speaker 3: out the middleman, that allows people to transact directly instead

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Speaker 3: of paying a fee, is just wrong thought of Okay, we.

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Speaker 4: Don't have a ton of time, but I do want

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Speaker 4: to get to one question on ethereum before we take

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Speaker 4: a little break. If we do see ETF for theoreum

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Speaker 4: approved in the coming months, which many people think we

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Speaker 4: will see, what will what are your thoughts on sort

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Speaker 4: of excitement and terms of inflows given that you can

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Speaker 4: already get exposure to crypto through ETFs and spot bitcoin ETFs,

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Speaker 4: Well we see the same type of enthusiasm.

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Speaker 3: Well, listen, we're going to see enthusiasm. What was so

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Speaker 3: unique about the Bitcoin ETF. It was the first time,

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Speaker 3: in lots of ways that the US federal government said

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Speaker 3: crypto's okay, you're okay to do crypto. Even though Gary

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Speaker 3: Gamzer didn't want to say it, he said it, and

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Speaker 3: the government said it.

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Speaker 1: Larry Fink said it.

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Speaker 3: Larry Think is the largest asset manager and the runs

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Speaker 3: the largest ass management company in the world. And so

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Speaker 3: the credentialization of bitcoining crypto that was kind of limit up.

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Speaker 3: This is a second step towards that. So it's great

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Speaker 3: for the ethereum community. It won't have the exact same impact,

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Speaker 3: but it'll have a big impact.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: All of these ecosystems are about bringing new people into

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Speaker 3: the ecosystem, into the circus tent, right, and so this

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Speaker 3: is a new and easier way for lots of people

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Speaker 3: to participate in the ethereum community.

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Speaker 1: And so it's nothing but a that positive