Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my.
Speaker 3: Ball in a brid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg,
Speaker 3: fridagridagg bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off
Speaker 3: the golf course.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the
Speaker 2: Frida Egg Podcast. This afternoon. I have the distinct pleasure
Speaker 2: of being joined by Amon Lynch, contributor for Golf Week.
Speaker 2: Sometimes show up on Golf Channel. You're on there and
Speaker 2: what would you say that is a contributor on Golf Channel.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm and recourring.
Speaker 4: Irritant probably, but the best way to describe it.
Speaker 3: It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: To be in the air.
Speaker 3: Constant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're coming here from sand Valley. Just got done
Speaker 2: playing Man Dooms today, played with Sandbach yesterday, we played
Speaker 2: Sand Valley the day before. What do you think about
Speaker 2: this new Midwest destination?
Speaker 3: The resort itself is fantastic.
Speaker 4: It's you know, Mike Kaniser is by the only brand
Speaker 4: named developer in golf, and everyone knows what they're getting
Speaker 4: with Kaiser, which is a particularly elevated kind of golf.
Speaker 3: It's an elevated experience to be here.
Speaker 4: He attracts people who are doing passionate about the game,
Speaker 4: and he's done that at Bandon Dunes obviously, he's done
Speaker 4: it at camp At Links with Ben Callender.
Speaker 3: And this place is a.
Speaker 4: Lot easier to get to than either one of those.
Speaker 4: So my guess is it's probably going to have.
Speaker 3: A very strong future.
Speaker 4: I think they will announce the third course architect later
Speaker 4: this year. Really help to pretty durn good golf courses
Speaker 4: here right now on.
Speaker 3: The sound books. So it's already a great destination.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The proximity to Chicago, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Madison, Yeah, it's by
Speaker 2: far the easiest of all the resources, I think. I
Speaker 2: think stream song people say it's remote, but it's like
Speaker 2: forty five minutes from Tampa, hour from Orlando. That's a
Speaker 2: pretty easy one to get to too. But it's this
Speaker 2: golf courses. It's a very cool place and it's been
Speaker 2: amazing to watch it grow over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: Like I remember coming out here when they had nine
Speaker 2: holes open of the original Sand Valley course and it
Speaker 2: was just a trailer. And now every time I come back,
Speaker 2: I feel like there's.
Speaker 4: Two three new buildings and none of it actually did
Speaker 4: trucks from the golf, which you don't often see.
Speaker 3: Reason work.
Speaker 4: You can go to a lot of great courses early
Speaker 4: in their lifespan and then you see things get looked
Speaker 4: up around them in a lot of cases is to
Speaker 4: detract from the golf experience.
Speaker 3: And as you see it found it.
Speaker 4: I can't but here the golf re means primary and
Speaker 4: nothing else that they add to the experience, what it
Speaker 4: adds to the general experience.
Speaker 3: Of being here. It does not in any way diminish
Speaker 3: or detract from the caliber of the golf. They don't
Speaker 3: land our ways with the lads or or get it
Speaker 3: in the way. It's not intrusive in anyway.
Speaker 2: It's just interesting because I think with golf everybody is
Speaker 2: always trying to do more to like make the game
Speaker 2: more interesting with their grow the game movement. And this
Speaker 2: is the model here is just like pure golf, and
Speaker 2: nothing detracts or there's no add ons to the golf
Speaker 2: like it that are trendy or you know, different things
Speaker 2: like they aren't trying to do any gimmicks here. You know,
Speaker 2: they're just putting the golf out and you know, presenting
Speaker 2: the golf in a very elegant and enjoyable fashion.
Speaker 3: But that in itself is growing the game.
Speaker 4: When you look at what they're doing even abandon and
Speaker 4: they have the punch bowl, they have the preserved course here,
Speaker 4: they've got the sandbox. That is a template for what
Speaker 4: ought to grow the game around the country. The first
Speaker 4: tea has not grown the game, is not growing the
Speaker 4: game and will not grow the game. But if you
Speaker 4: have a time that has something like the winter Park
Speaker 4: nine or the sandbox here, or even a putting the course.
Speaker 4: You drive through North Berwick and Scotland and you see
Speaker 4: the kids course there every night full until the sun
Speaker 4: goes back. And so what they're doing here is that
Speaker 4: kind of curiosity to a lot of golfers. But that's
Speaker 4: actually I believe the template for what could grow the
Speaker 4: game in this country is to have more kind of
Speaker 4: concentrated experiences, whether it's a nine hole course, a six
Speaker 4: hole loop and you're putting course. That is how you
Speaker 4: grow the game is to present the game with them.
Speaker 4: Stop dressing up with this nonsense of teaching kids or
Speaker 4: and integrity and honesty. That's a parent's job.
Speaker 3: It's not a golf job to teach them that, and it's.
Speaker 4: A cop out to get behind these nonsense screw the
Speaker 4: game schemes that don't actually deliver anything.
Speaker 3: The peg and juniorly screw the game because they're actually out,
Speaker 3: they're playing the game. That is.
Speaker 4: The goal is to get kids out of play, and
Speaker 4: you just don't need eighteen home golf courses to subject
Speaker 4: kids to that. At the deep end, we need more
Speaker 4: ways to entice kids into the game early with a
Speaker 4: limited but can immersive experience. And what they're doing here
Speaker 4: is the tempt that she'll be taken for ruling the
Speaker 4: game in other times and resorts and municipalities.
Speaker 2: Around the country. Yeah, I think so many golf courses
Speaker 2: should close across the country, but so many of them
Speaker 2: should look at and you have a list, I mean
Speaker 2: you work them all the time. Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 2: a lot of them, but there's a lot of them
Speaker 2: should close their eighteen holes and look at like how
Speaker 2: you could do like the sandbox, which is you could
Speaker 2: do that on what thirty acres, forty acres you could
Speaker 2: do There's a Mike Clayton, Mike Cocking, Jeff Ogilvie's group
Speaker 2: at Shady Oaks in Dallas I saw, or Fort Worth
Speaker 2: I saw they have this nine hole course. You could
Speaker 2: route it like nine different ways or seven different ways.
Speaker 2: You could have a different little nine hole golf course
Speaker 2: every day of the week like and on that course
Speaker 2: you could hit driver around hold you can hit You know,
Speaker 2: to me, you don't need eighteen holes, you don't need
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty acres anymore. Like you need just
Speaker 2: something that is that provides a variety, that's fun, that's interesting,
Speaker 2: that is you know, quality architecture, and that's going to
Speaker 2: get people back.
Speaker 1: Because Winter Park is a perfect example. Is it's jam packed.
Speaker 1: They they've turned their business completely around.
Speaker 2: They went from a golf course I was losing two
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars a year of one that makes money now.
Speaker 4: And when you look at the actual cost to go
Speaker 4: and play winter Park, it's actually just a nominal fee,
Speaker 4: even if you're not a city resident. So you also
Speaker 4: have to look at the economics and what it costs
Speaker 4: to maintain a bad eighteen to whole golf course versus
Speaker 4: a pretty good nine hole course and maybe a public
Speaker 4: course or some other addendum to it.
Speaker 3: It's a lot cheaper.
Speaker 4: And I don't necessarily think it would have a huge
Speaker 4: impact on revenue if it's done correctly, because let's says,
Speaker 4: if who wants to play a losing eighteen whole golf course.
Speaker 4: But there are people out there, I think who are
Speaker 4: looking for a better alternative that takes less time, costs
Speaker 4: less money and where they actually feel welcome and their
Speaker 4: kids being welcome or were women be welcome. And that's
Speaker 4: not true of a lot of places in the country.
Speaker 2: It's cool here they're doing that five dollars for kids
Speaker 2: at the Sandbocks, five dollars to go play their new
Speaker 2: six hole loop at sand Valley. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: that's that's a good way, you know, to get kids
Speaker 2: out and play good golf. I grew up. I got
Speaker 2: to play good golf because I worked at a really
Speaker 2: good country club, like and I got playing privileges, so
Speaker 2: I got to understand what good golf was, and that
Speaker 2: to me is so important. I think you play, the
Speaker 2: better golf you play, and the more you know good
Speaker 2: golf that's available as the mass public is so important
Speaker 2: because one of the problems with American golf is how
Speaker 2: private is and I mean, you got compared to where
Speaker 2: you're from Ireland, Northern Ireland. That I mean, it's a
Speaker 2: completely different model.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I grew up on a par three and I can
Speaker 4: hope par three course near my home and I really
Speaker 4: should have taken it as an omen back then. I'm
Speaker 4: horrible slice and was envied right and every hold. So
Speaker 4: I and most of my childhood trying to protect my
Speaker 4: goods and services as I planned over barbar offenses to
Speaker 4: retrieve the golf.
Speaker 3: Ball I had from the fields.
Speaker 4: But it cost the equivalent of about four dollars to
Speaker 4: go play, and this is going back twenty five thirty years.
Speaker 4: And my friends and then we go out there and
Speaker 4: we play four wrongs in a row. It took us
Speaker 4: nineteen minutes to go around. And that's what we did
Speaker 4: all day during the summer. And you know, those things
Speaker 4: aren't particularly common. But you know, every time in village
Speaker 4: in Scotland and in Ireland has a golf course, it's
Speaker 4: not necessarily going to win architecture awards. But people go out,
Speaker 4: they can go out and playing jeans.
Speaker 3: They're welcome to do.
Speaker 4: So they're just going to go out and slap all around.
Speaker 4: The kids are going to go do the same. But
Speaker 4: at least it gets them into the game, and I
Speaker 4: don't feel as though that's necessarily as much of a
Speaker 4: culture trick within the golf Outside of the UK, I
Speaker 4: believe it is a Australia on pros that I've talked
Speaker 4: to over there in my own experiences there, I think
Speaker 4: it's a much more open enron. But in the United
Speaker 4: States there's whether it's public or private, there is a
Speaker 4: tendency that with the great courses to build a wall
Speaker 4: around them and put up sign it restricts who was
Speaker 4: welcome at any particular time.
Speaker 2: Of the day or night.
Speaker 4: So that's a culture that has to change if you
Speaker 4: really want to grow the game. But in this economy,
Speaker 4: bad courses are going to continue to close. So why
Speaker 4: not looking for an alternative means why stick with the
Speaker 4: one model that has proven not to work. If your
Speaker 4: course is struggling, look for something else that might perhaps
Speaker 4: offer a chance that can remedy.
Speaker 3: Remedy in the situation.
Speaker 2: It's crazy that if you had a say, a donut
Speaker 2: shop that was I'd serve identical DNAs to the donut
Speaker 2: shop shop down the street, and the donut shop down
Speaker 2: the street just like got more traffic than you to
Speaker 2: keep doing the exact same thing, like that donut shop
Speaker 2: owner would change what he's doing, and some sort of
Speaker 2: they're doing in some sort of way, whether the change
Speaker 2: of recipe changes, but in America is doing jump.
Speaker 4: In doesn't have the same baker and the problem you
Speaker 4: have in a lot of golf courses that certainly in
Speaker 4: the last thirty forty years, it's the same field architectural
Speaker 4: strategies that exist.
Speaker 3: From one to the other.
Speaker 4: They hire the same guys to go around making the
Speaker 4: same mistakes that they need somewhere else because they've never
Speaker 4: bothered to go back and see how their courses play
Speaker 4: in the field and whether or not and he will
Speaker 4: enjoy them. I had a conversation with David Kidd last
Speaker 4: week for a piece. I was riding Golf Week and
Speaker 4: he was flashing back ten years when he was at
Speaker 4: the probably the top of his craft, or why do
Speaker 4: he consider to be there. He'd opened a bunch of
Speaker 4: golf courses of course in Scotland, teborow Stone, Bray Abrahamis Dunes,
Speaker 4: but he became very aware that his courses were winning
Speaker 4: much more in the way of awards than they were
Speaker 4: with fans. Because golfers kept telling him, you know what,
Speaker 4: he was beautiful and enjoy the experience, but it beat
Speaker 4: to help him, and I'm not going back.
Speaker 3: So if you have an audience that would.
Speaker 4: Even when paying your compliment with tell you they're not
Speaker 4: coming back, that should indicate there's a problem. And David
Speaker 4: eventually realized that he was off the path that he
Speaker 4: wanted to be on, and eventually, as we see here
Speaker 4: this week, a man of doings found his way back
Speaker 4: to it.
Speaker 3: But that's a rarity among the architects. Most of them.
Speaker 4: Continued building the same type of golf and offering the
Speaker 4: same kind of golf experience.
Speaker 3: As they do everywhere else, regardless of the.
Speaker 4: Demographic that they're trying to appeal to, the time they're in,
Speaker 4: the topography they're working with.
Speaker 3: It really is the Xerox school of golf course architecture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, municipal golf that always seems the one be the
Speaker 2: one that loses with golf course architecture because it ends
Speaker 2: up being born. I don't think the golf courses here
Speaker 2: are necessarily a model for municipal golf, but there's a
Speaker 2: lot of things that you could take away from what
Speaker 2: they do here and bring them you know that you're
Speaker 2: never going to find a municipality that has, like, you know,
Speaker 2: twenty thousand acres of sand, Like that's not going to happen.
Speaker 2: And maybe not having you know, eighty yard wide fairways
Speaker 2: that you have to you know, maintain and cut is
Speaker 2: necessarily the best part. But having the corridors and a
Speaker 2: width that these places have is so important because I mean,
Speaker 2: you've already alluded to your slice. It keeps you in
Speaker 2: the ballpark for a little bit longer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the value here isn't so much the
Speaker 4: practical way you can move the sound volume model elsewhere.
Speaker 3: It's kind of theophical underpinions of it.
Speaker 4: And I think what Mammoth Doones does is blow out
Speaker 4: of the water this notion that there has to be
Speaker 4: an antagonistic relationship between playability and challenge, that a course
Speaker 4: that is challenging to skilled golfers has to be punishing
Speaker 4: to the rest of us, which is a nonsense, And
Speaker 4: Mammoth Dunes proves it's a nonsense because the conturs and
Speaker 4: the width and corridors that will keep someone like me
Speaker 4: in in the romand albeit not today, is those are
Speaker 4: not the contours or targets that a plus two like
Speaker 4: you is going to look at You're looking at a
Speaker 4: very different targets to try to work your way to
Speaker 4: the pain.
Speaker 3: And that I'm out there on the edge of just
Speaker 3: trying to.
Speaker 4: Stay in the game with the same golf ball I
Speaker 4: started with. That's eminently possible. I don't think you found
Speaker 4: it an easy golf course out there today.
Speaker 3: And that's the genius of this.
Speaker 4: You can actually have quality god courses that don't need
Speaker 4: this kind of topography. But you also don't need the
Speaker 4: killer bunkers, the water.
Speaker 3: Hazards scattered at every turn.
Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be turned into some kind of
Speaker 4: medieval rack that you're going to stretch it off or
Speaker 4: on for five hours. That's the philosophical underpinning of Sound
Speaker 4: Valley as it is abounded, but particularly here at Mammoth Duns.
Speaker 3: That's what's portable in this experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there's like a big disconnect and
Speaker 2: I saw at Trinity Forest and when you start to
Speaker 2: think about the idea of challenging golf versus hard golf,
Speaker 2: so like a single shot is challenging it, and especially
Speaker 2: at a course like Mammothun's that's out there, Like I
Speaker 2: look at that golf course and I think, like, go
Speaker 2: birdie every hole, Like that's why, that's what the challenge
Speaker 2: is out there. And this is where I think it
Speaker 2: all comes back to the illusion of par and how
Speaker 2: people are obsessed with parr. It's you know, on one day,
Speaker 2: par should be completely different than the next day. If
Speaker 2: we play in a thirty mile on hour wind, the
Speaker 2: score of par is completely different than if you play
Speaker 2: on a dead call morning the day after a big rain,
Speaker 2: like the golf course is way easier one day, So like,
Speaker 2: why is par still the same? But the idea of
Speaker 2: challenging and asking different questions throughout the round of players.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, too many golf courses are
Speaker 2: too dependent on t ball, like and I'd say my
Speaker 2: strength of the players driving the golf ball. I like
Speaker 2: when they're tight when I play in.
Speaker 4: Competition, And that's my absolute weakness right now, to the
Speaker 4: point where I might now that ought bay again. But
Speaker 4: this is the problem here, is that the challenge that
Speaker 4: it's asking of me, mean, is exactly the same as
Speaker 4: the challenge it's asking of you. And that's to me,
Speaker 4: the kooky coator is that you see in a lot
Speaker 4: of golf it will present its challenge off the tea
Speaker 4: and it's going to offer you the opportunity to hit
Speaker 4: a difficult shot, and it's going to offer me the
Speaker 4: opportunity to hit an impossible one. And the cost to
Speaker 4: you of a slightness is a lot less than it's
Speaker 4: going to be for me with the slightness, because my
Speaker 4: margin for.
Speaker 3: Error is much greater anyway. And that's the problem.
Speaker 4: I see it in a lot of golf courses that
Speaker 4: if a golf course does not have options, it's not interesting.
Speaker 3: And live or die are not options to me. And
Speaker 3: that's what you see in so many golf courses.
Speaker 4: You see it in Greg Norman's, in Jack Nicholas's golf
Speaker 4: course in peat Dane in which Jones, you see it
Speaker 4: time and time again, is just the same absolute dearth
Speaker 4: of options that.
Speaker 5: Are being.
Speaker 3: Offered to guys. You can see the challenge it's being.
Speaker 4: Presented, but they're presenting the exact same challenge and severity
Speaker 4: of challenge to wy be different ability levels and that
Speaker 4: just gets boring.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same question over and over again. It's
Speaker 2: hit straight. I think you know, my most fun shot
Speaker 2: today that I played, I missed a green and I
Speaker 2: had a really awkward lie on like this sandy native
Speaker 2: area off to the left of the green. I hit,
Speaker 2: you know, there was nothing in front of me on
Speaker 2: the way, and I could have hit a lob wedge,
Speaker 2: which was but I hit like a little pitching wedge,
Speaker 2: pitch like.
Speaker 1: A chip and run out of it, and I kind
Speaker 1: of thought about it. It's like if that was a
Speaker 1: deep bunker. I thought about the shot though, for a while.
Speaker 2: And that is the fun of golf, is figuring out
Speaker 2: what you're going to do, not being told what to do.
Speaker 3: It's also the fun part.
Speaker 4: It's figuring out what the ball is going to do
Speaker 4: after it hits the ground, which we saw that a
Speaker 4: trending forrest when you were out there at the.
Speaker 3: Tournament and how often you actually get to watch your
Speaker 3: guys have to worry about what the ball is going
Speaker 3: to do when it hits the ground.
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember this argument with chan Lee earlier
Speaker 4: this year when he said that drive of Dustin Johnson's
Speaker 4: at Kapalua, which was whatever four hundred and something the
Speaker 4: yards to kick in range, that it was the greatest
Speaker 4: shot ever hit to me.
Speaker 3: The one and the really interesting thing.
Speaker 4: About that shot was what happened when the ball hit
Speaker 4: the ground, which was probably ninety yards shy of where
Speaker 4: it ended up. And we just don't get to see
Speaker 4: that very often, where the elite golfers are forced to
Speaker 4: consider the conturers and what's going to happen to the ball.
Speaker 4: We see it unsure every week where the ball hits
Speaker 4: spins back to the hole. But it's basically hit can
Speaker 4: stop God, which is just tedious lunbelief to watch.
Speaker 2: Do you think that the venues Pger Tour dow or
Speaker 2: is a venue to the golf tournament.
Speaker 4: It's important to the golf tournament in the sense that
Speaker 4: they need to be able to accommodate the infrastructure that exists.
Speaker 3: For a tour event.
Speaker 4: It's important to all but about three or four pure
Speaker 4: players only in the sense of does it ask them
Speaker 4: to execute? They're not interested in the test of imagination.
Speaker 4: They are interested in the test of execution, and which
Speaker 4: is what separates this kind of golf here at Sam
Speaker 4: Valley from a lot of the other courses we see.
Speaker 4: But from a viewer perspective, I actually think it's quite
Speaker 4: important because you see this, it seems like the same
Speaker 4: that they're playing every week. It's the same guys at
Speaker 4: the same golf course being offered the same test, but
Speaker 4: they're just going to head it as far as they
Speaker 4: can go to sandwich from They're rough onto the green
Speaker 4: and either make the pun or to public carry on
Speaker 4: to the next tone. And you know, the guys on
Speaker 4: CBS or whatever going to tell to you won't believe
Speaker 4: how difficult this shot is. Well, actually we willn't because
Speaker 4: we see everyone else playing all day long.
Speaker 3: It's it's almost like you're stuck.
Speaker 4: In the ground whole day of watching lousy golf courses
Speaker 4: with boring golf being played. And that was what was
Speaker 4: so refreshing about Trenedy Forrest is that it was a
Speaker 4: great break with the normal, and that was a tournament
Speaker 4: that needed to do something to kind of resurrect itself,
Speaker 4: and there are ways you can do that. Sure did
Speaker 4: it by change in the format. And suddenly people have
Speaker 4: forgotten that your players voted that the worst course on
Speaker 4: tour a couple of years ago, and now another course
Speaker 4: that they voted as among the worst contrur was the
Speaker 4: at and t Oaks course that they used to play
Speaker 4: the Barron Nelson.
Speaker 2: On which crews coins t that four season. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: was the wasn't the at and TAKS courses at sant Antony.
Speaker 2: That's that's your boy Normans as well. Again, that's they
Speaker 2: all together, Texas.
Speaker 4: And the least to at least offensive thing about that
Speaker 4: is the fact that it's named for a corporation.
Speaker 3: But you know, the Baron Nelson Tournament found a way
Speaker 3: to suddenly make itself.
Speaker 4: They must talked about it then on tour this year
Speaker 4: outside of say the players and the Masters, because it found.
Speaker 3: A way to move to an intriguing style of venue,
Speaker 3: and they.
Speaker 4: Took the risk of going with Gror and Crenshaw on
Speaker 4: that golf course that draws in the tournament, and suddenly
Speaker 4: it's a very different experience from what we have been
Speaker 4: seeing in certainly on the Texas swing recently, but even
Speaker 4: on matur in general, there just aren't that many interesting
Speaker 4: golf courses out there.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the prive of three or
Speaker 2: four best venues that the tour goes to earn their
Speaker 2: ad already like, and that's not a.
Speaker 3: Competitive category of trur venues.
Speaker 2: Well, I think what you alluded to that is fascinating
Speaker 2: is the idea of variety. When I look at the
Speaker 2: PGA Tour. It whether it's the format that's seventy two
Speaker 2: hole stroke play week after week after week after week
Speaker 2: after week after week, or whether it's the golf courses
Speaker 2: that are you know, eerily similar in just different states.
Speaker 2: It putting having variety. I think is they should. They
Speaker 2: should love that idea and do everything they can to
Speaker 2: go to different venues, experience, experiment with different formats. And
Speaker 2: I mean, if you were running the PGA Tour, what
Speaker 2: would be the first thing you do?
Speaker 4: Probably done, Kevin n We're still play and anyone else
Speaker 4: who needs you know two three.
Speaker 3: Minutes centurally that it's done the ball, and I actually
Speaker 3: think you can work with some of the venues that
Speaker 3: are right there. Part of the problem here is a
Speaker 3: significant point problem is not the course. It's the setup.
Speaker 4: And the setup that the turer enforces every week is monotonous.
Speaker 3: It's asking the same questions every week.
Speaker 4: Of players on tour. So I think the trure itself
Speaker 4: for some responsibility. It's not just on the architects here
Speaker 4: or even the tournament's and their chrunt of venue.
Speaker 3: A lot of it is on the trurer. So there
Speaker 3: is something they can do about that. I actually think
Speaker 3: they ought to.
Speaker 4: I think they should change some of the formats out there.
Speaker 4: I think the team event was fine. There has to
Speaker 4: be a better alternative to the forty odd tournaments year
Speaker 4: where it is seven or two holes of struggling with
Speaker 4: a mediocre field. That might give a couple of decent
Speaker 4: names in there, but you have to get an extraordinary
Speaker 4: tournative events in Sunday afternoon to really get the viewing
Speaker 4: audience interest. And you just can't have this kind of
Speaker 4: mediocre product as often as is actually presented under And
Speaker 4: that is not exclusively the problem of the course, nor
Speaker 4: even opposed an exclusive problem of the drawer, but it's
Speaker 4: something that they can and Sho'll address the.
Speaker 2: Set up things interesting because something I know players were
Speaker 2: really excited about at Trinity was the variety and the
Speaker 2: part threes, you know, having a short little guy on
Speaker 2: a and how every tour course seemingly it is all
Speaker 2: two hundred plus yard part three. Just because there's a
Speaker 2: back to two hundred yards doesn't mean they have to
Speaker 2: set it up that way.
Speaker 4: And Graham McDonald got ripped by one of the Twitter
Speaker 4: trolls at Trinity Forest for taking a little bit longer
Speaker 4: than Norman because he's actually a very speedy player to
Speaker 4: make an up and dine on the seventeenth hole, because
Speaker 4: there were opting options that Graham could have used to
Speaker 4: play that shot. And to me, the problem is not
Speaker 4: a guy who takes a little bit low to consider
Speaker 4: a white number of options to execute a show.
Speaker 3: The problem is.
Speaker 4: Every other week on durer Or, the guy who's been
Speaker 4: presented with one option still takes an eternity to play
Speaker 4: the shof I mean, you know that, to me is
Speaker 4: the biggest problem in the game actually is still playing.
Speaker 3: That's really what the Duror could address. And you know,
Speaker 3: I could tolerate golf course is.
Speaker 4: Being played quickly well, golf course has been paid played
Speaker 4: at an achingly slow a place.
Speaker 3: Is just intolerable.
Speaker 2: Is a problem. And if you think about like what
Speaker 2: he was thinking about there, to me, that's where the
Speaker 2: broadcast sometimes messes. The boat is Like the most compelling
Speaker 2: aspect of golf is listening to a player and a
Speaker 2: caddy talk about a decision where they're talking about where
Speaker 2: they're going to land the ball, what trajectory they're coming
Speaker 2: in at, you know, what type of spin they're going
Speaker 2: to have on it.
Speaker 1: Because that and that requires the broadcast to just not
Speaker 1: say anything, I mean, and sit there and let the
Speaker 1: moment happen and then see what if the player.
Speaker 2: Executes the shot, like getting more like allowing that to
Speaker 2: happen more would be so I mean, I think that's
Speaker 2: so compelling. I don't know if the regular viewer does.
Speaker 2: But that's how everybody can understand what they're talking about
Speaker 2: and see how good and how talented these guys are.
Speaker 2: Where they're talking about landing at one f or one
Speaker 2: eight at different trajrectories with different spin. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the talent of these guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But get in the announcers to actually know when science.
Speaker 4: Is of more value than words, I think is a
Speaker 4: bit of a struggle because ultimately, they're paid to voice
Speaker 4: their opinions and nothing can be said until those guys
Speaker 4: and how they're saying it, it seems, but there are
Speaker 4: a lot of times, but it seems to try it
Speaker 4: from the moment of the broadcast. But again, I don't
Speaker 4: necessarily think you can legislate for the announcers. It would
Speaker 4: be nice if there was a little more awareness of
Speaker 4: what the viewer experience is. And I think that's also
Speaker 4: lacking quite often in the coverage of the game these days.
Speaker 2: So it's crazy. We're we only have a little over
Speaker 2: three months left in the PGA Tour season. What's been
Speaker 2: your kind of takeaways so far from from what we've seen,
Speaker 2: you know, Masters players and just the overall season. You know,
Speaker 2: we're about to hit the kind of the big, big
Speaker 2: events here coming up.
Speaker 4: What's actually been surprising to me is how many of
Speaker 4: the biggest stars in the game have shown so much
Speaker 4: form this year, and yet we still haven't really had
Speaker 4: much in the way of those total shootout accidents we're
Speaker 4: all eighteen for, particularly in an event that matters. I mean,
Speaker 4: there was a certainly a dramatic finish shop at the Masters,
Speaker 4: but Reed wasn't particularly challenged. It wasn't go for the
Speaker 4: throat kind of experience there. But there are a lot
Speaker 4: of guys being really good golf. And you know, we've
Speaker 4: seen Phil win, Rory wins Tigers, showing signs that he
Speaker 4: will win again. Which have you asked me that a
Speaker 4: year ago? I would have thought you were kind of crazy.
Speaker 4: I believe that, but I do think he's going to
Speaker 4: win again, and it's it's shaping up with so much promise.
Speaker 4: We just need one of those kind of y're o
Speaker 4: defining tournaments, which we haven't had in a very long time.
Speaker 4: Because to me, what the tour is missing more than
Speaker 4: anything right now is a rival And yes, you can
Speaker 4: argue that it's great to have a dominant player, which
Speaker 4: we don't have, and we have a lot of great players,
Speaker 4: but not a lot of dominant players.
Speaker 3: But go back look for rivalries in this game.
Speaker 4: You have to go back to perhaps great Norman mcfondo
Speaker 4: twenty plus years ago, twenty five years ago. Before that,
Speaker 4: you go back forty years to Jack and Tom Watson.
Speaker 4: Obviously the Hanak and carry well in there as well,
Speaker 4: But this game hasn't had the kind of rivalry that
Speaker 4: is fought out in the tournaments that matter. Nobody remembers
Speaker 4: Jack and Arnie, or sorry Jack and Arnie, Jack and
Speaker 4: Tom Watson fighting it out in the Andy Williams San
Speaker 4: Diego Upen. They've fought it out in the Open Championship
Speaker 4: and the Masters in the US and events that mattered,
Speaker 4: and that just doesn't seem to happen in this generation.
Speaker 3: The best players are very seldom two going at.
Speaker 4: Each other on Sunday afternoon in the beutest tournaments in
Speaker 4: the game, and that's what we need. More.
Speaker 2: It seems like there's an on that never like the
Speaker 2: parody is at an all time high in the game.
Speaker 2: Where if I put the top twenty five players in
Speaker 2: the world in front of you for the Snekak, would
Speaker 2: you be surprised if any of them were No.
Speaker 4: I think the pool of players, the pool of players
Speaker 4: who can win the biggest defense now is probably bigger
Speaker 4: than it's ever been. But in some ways the pool
Speaker 4: that does win seems smaller and less impressive. You know,
Speaker 4: it's a great career now to have one a major.
Speaker 4: Jordan has three, Rory's got four, and they are by
Speaker 4: some margin the.
Speaker 3: Most dominant guys of that generation.
Speaker 4: Well, Tiger had a lot more than three or four
Speaker 4: at that point in his career, obviously, And you just
Speaker 4: wish that we.
Speaker 3: Could see someone stretch it out a little bit and
Speaker 3: see who comes with. Let's find somebody.
Speaker 4: Who can add a couple of majors to their resume
Speaker 4: and see which of this generation has the stomach to
Speaker 4: make a fight out of it and elevate their own game,
Speaker 4: because ultimately, a dominant player will elevate other folks, and
Speaker 4: you can look at tennis over the last ten years
Speaker 4: and say, yes, Roger Federer's indisputably the biggest player who's
Speaker 4: ever played the game, but a lot of his career
Speaker 4: is defined by a rivalry against the dall or Djokovic.
Speaker 4: He elevated them, they at times surpassed him, but it
Speaker 4: made it for a compelling year in tennis every single year.
Speaker 4: Those were the guys who were there in the terms
Speaker 4: that mattered.
Speaker 3: And that's our big loss right now.
Speaker 2: Basketball's got Lebron that's like, you know, the undisputed greatest
Speaker 2: of this generation. But there's guys like Kevin Durant, Steph Curry,
Speaker 2: you know, that are pushing them. You know, it's not
Speaker 2: it's not something that he automatic. And I agree, and
Speaker 2: part of me wonders, Tiger was the last dominant player?
Speaker 2: Will he be the last dominant player? No?
Speaker 3: I think that kind of thing is cyclical.
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily believe anyone will ever play the game
Speaker 4: again the Tiger did in around two thousand, perhaps even
Speaker 4: in the mid two thousands, when he.
Speaker 3: Was just demonstrably way better than everyone else.
Speaker 2: In the game.
Speaker 3: He knew and name do it. But I do think
Speaker 3: we'll have another dominant player. It just seems once in
Speaker 3: a generation thing.
Speaker 4: I don't know who that's going to be in this
Speaker 4: generation yet, nor what will constitute dominance. Because you also
Speaker 4: have to remember that Tiger thoroughly skewed the perception of
Speaker 4: what the best player in the world ought to do.
Speaker 4: Weekend we got because no one who held that dominant
Speaker 4: position before him ever did what he did week after
Speaker 4: week after week.
Speaker 3: And clearly none of these guys right now can do that.
Speaker 3: It's considered a hot streak.
Speaker 4: If they play well three or four weeks in a row,
Speaker 4: we'll do it fifty two weeks in a row Tigers
Speaker 4: did in his brind So we see dominance not at
Speaker 4: the level we did, but it would be a kind of.
Speaker 3: A cheaper form of dominance, but somebody would get there.
Speaker 2: Again, I go back to the dominance of Tigers diminished
Speaker 2: ever since probably one, and the real distance of explosion,
Speaker 2: And part of me believes that, I mean, technology has
Speaker 2: brought everybody closer, not necessarily the regular amateur player, but
Speaker 2: from a high level player perspective, there's no way you
Speaker 2: can't say that hybrids haven't allowed players to be better.
Speaker 2: And you know, then you know the greatest skill. Donald
Speaker 2: Ross said the greatest skill and golf is the ability
Speaker 2: to hit towering long iron shots. And that was in
Speaker 2: nineteen hundred. If you talk to anybody about Sevvy or
Speaker 2: Jack or Arnold Palmer, what you know one of their
Speaker 2: greatest skills was hitting towering long irons. So beyond every
Speaker 2: think you know, the hybrid technology, track man, all this
Speaker 2: stuff has contributed, I believe to a homoginization of the game.
Speaker 5: To slight bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's dragged It's not that it's dragged
Speaker 4: the best players down. I think they're still the best players.
Speaker 4: It's allowed a lot of mediocre durer players to have
Speaker 4: very nice careers where they can play and compete at
Speaker 4: a very nice level without ever ever hanching having to
Speaker 4: be great if not that much has been asked of them,
Speaker 4: and the shots that separate the people who win tournaments
Speaker 4: and important tournaments are not demanded of players anymore. When
Speaker 4: you saw last year Tour, the longest iron DJ had
Speaker 4: into any Part four was the sixth hron So once yes,
Speaker 4: and I don't believe DJ.
Speaker 3: Can't hit low matters. He obviously can.
Speaker 4: He's among the two or three best players in the
Speaker 4: world right now. He's not being asked to and distance
Speaker 4: is such and it doesn't have to And I do
Speaker 4: think that's kind of created this pool of players that
Speaker 4: is miles wide but about a middle meter deep.
Speaker 3: As there when it comes to the ability to separate themselves.
Speaker 4: From the pack, I believe even if we have at
Speaker 4: some point in the future by vocation or ball roll
Speaker 4: back or anything like that, I still believe the best
Speaker 4: players will be the best players at that point. What
Speaker 4: it will do is separate the also rounds who are
Speaker 4: skating by with technology rather steal.
Speaker 2: I believe, like the top fifteen to twenty players will
Speaker 2: still be the top you know, they will still be
Speaker 2: some of the top players in the game, like they
Speaker 2: will the top five will still be the five best
Speaker 2: players in the game. Where I think you'll see if
Speaker 2: shakeup is in the middle tier, where it goes back
Speaker 2: to what we're talking about with golf, Like I think
Speaker 2: that the ability to the ball's way over it. I
Speaker 2: think and from like a from a viewer standpoint, a
Speaker 2: game with heroic recovery shots is way more interesting than
Speaker 2: a game where it's just a tactical, precision game where.
Speaker 4: It's that challenge you to find a single golfound anywhere
Speaker 4: in the world you can remember a great drive seventy
Speaker 4: Bostero Center hit. Yeah, but they can kind of chapter
Speaker 4: and verse of some of the short game shots that
Speaker 4: the executed over the years.
Speaker 3: Same with Tiger.
Speaker 4: You know, people remember that shippen a Gusta, and they
Speaker 4: don't remember a lot of the three hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: yard drive because they all look the same, they all
Speaker 4: end up in the same place. So it's the challenge
Speaker 4: is Pookie color, whereas it's much more situational and involves
Speaker 4: many more options and a wider skill set to execute
Speaker 4: the closer to the business end of the hole you get.
Speaker 4: And I think that's where the real joy of watching
Speaker 4: this game and the great players.
Speaker 2: Guys, what uh, what do you think of Aaron Hills
Speaker 2: last year?
Speaker 4: That one I watched from Afar happily, So I just
Speaker 4: thought it looked like a faery, boring golf course.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a a rather non descript major championship.
Speaker 3: You know, I've always associated.
Speaker 4: With the us op the bone that makes these guys
Speaker 4: squeak in agony, and that one didn't except for Kevin
Speaker 4: No complaining about the referre in the week, which he
Speaker 4: had then got down. I just didn't feel as though
Speaker 4: it did not have the gun on the aura of
Speaker 4: a major championship. Brooks kept get thirdly deserving winner, wonderful player,
Speaker 4: but it did not strike me as being timber of
Speaker 4: the US Up when you've come to.
Speaker 2: Expect why do we hold on to this idea of
Speaker 2: scoring with the US Open all the games clearly changed.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the supposed question for Matt Davis.
Speaker 4: I'm not on the USGA executive committee yet, although I
Speaker 4: keep up with somebody I get the call because you're why.
Speaker 3: I do not own a blue blazer, so that might
Speaker 3: be a problem.
Speaker 6: I don't necessarily think that challenge and scoring are one
Speaker 6: and the same, and perhaps the US Open folks do
Speaker 6: believe that.
Speaker 4: But I think Brooks Ketkill will probably tell you that
Speaker 4: he found Aaron Hill's challenging in last year's Open.
Speaker 3: But I'm I'm sure there's a.
Speaker 4: Lot Moreganis are going to tell you that Chinico Kills
Speaker 4: is challenging when they get there in a couple of weeks,
Speaker 4: and it's a lot of that.
Speaker 3: Concern comes down to the course set up.
Speaker 4: I believe the USDA should move away from this idea
Speaker 4: of power and the defense of it. But again then
Speaker 4: you move into the idea of the equipment issues and
Speaker 4: the distance issues. It's a real Pandora's box when you
Speaker 4: just tried to define challenge versus scoring, because how do
Speaker 4: you rain in scoring or expand the challenge without getting
Speaker 4: into the way Guys are able to overpower virtually any
Speaker 4: golf course. So then do you have to grow in
Speaker 4: the fairways? Do you have to have rough that's waisted high?
Speaker 4: You know, everything seems to be interconnected in that argument,
Speaker 4: but it does feel as though there's a Company Jesus
Speaker 4: movement coming in a debate within the game of golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should be a really interesting next couple of
Speaker 2: weeks with arguably like the two sternest tests in golf.
Speaker 2: I think you put Oakmand and Shanna Kaka probably the
Speaker 2: two venues in US Open rotation that you would say
Speaker 2: are the toughest tests of golf over time, and then
Speaker 2: you go for the Open Championship to Carnousti, which is
Speaker 2: long then considered the toughest test of golf. I'm fascinated
Speaker 2: to see, you know, what Shinnakok will look like. You know,
Speaker 2: the fairways are much wider than what they were before.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to necessarily equate to better scoring.
Speaker 2: I think it will separate the field better. It will
Speaker 2: you know, the cream will rise more with the wider
Speaker 2: fairways there because those players that are really on, they're
Speaker 2: hitting their spots, are going to gain the advantage. And
Speaker 2: you know when you get into these very very narrow
Speaker 2: fairways with really thick rough like I mean, he had
Speaker 2: a great drive and catch like the side of the
Speaker 2: sprinkler had to bounce it into the rough and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: that wasn't like a bad drive. And I think when
Speaker 2: there's more with like the bad drives are still gonna
Speaker 2: If you have a bad drive with a wide faraway,
Speaker 2: you're going to still be terrible place. But I think
Speaker 2: it will be interesting to see if scoring is drastically
Speaker 2: different than two thousand and four.
Speaker 3: Cock is also one of those places that.
Speaker 4: It really gets exponentially more difficult the closer to the
Speaker 4: business end of the hope we get. And you know,
Speaker 4: it's got a pretty well countered greens there as fast
Speaker 4: as ice rinks typically, it's beautifully bonkery. And what's interesting
Speaker 4: this year I was talked to Brad Faxing about it
Speaker 4: last week keeping up there for media Day, and he
Speaker 4: said it was quite interesting as the cursed strange.
Speaker 3: Actually, he said, how many of the areas around the greens.
Speaker 3: It used to be just the.
Speaker 4: Gruff which allowed you one shot to play out of it,
Speaker 4: which is hack it out onto the green. So many
Speaker 4: of those ship down into chipping areas. So I actually
Speaker 4: think this is an up and that will separate guys
Speaker 4: who have that skill set close to the home because
Speaker 4: they're being presented with options and how to play it.
Speaker 4: And that's why I'm must looking forward to it. I
Speaker 4: just said, put everyone in the middle of every fairway
Speaker 4: and lit side it.
Speaker 3: Out from there. You don't even need to hit your
Speaker 3: t shots. We'd like that absolutely. I think it will
Speaker 3: be much much more entertaining.
Speaker 4: God, because that's what's going to separate the truly skilled
Speaker 4: players with nerves of steel than hitting drives into the
Speaker 4: furway or just into the first cup of the roughlan
Speaker 4: gunageing it on from there. Let's put them around the
Speaker 4: hole and then see who's standing on somebody.
Speaker 3: Easy.
Speaker 2: See, that'd be an interesting alternative of a bat if
Speaker 2: they did something where it was like a Part three
Speaker 2: tournament et centray to see who is the best from
Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty five yards and then from all.
Speaker 3: Different kinds of places.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's actually the In a way, that's
Speaker 4: almost what the game has been reduced to at this point.
Speaker 4: Because they all hit it a long way, it's not
Speaker 4: become particularly relevant worthy hit it because it doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to diminish their ability to score if they're playing from
Speaker 4: the rough versus the furway, and it's the entire game
Speaker 4: has now become.
Speaker 3: The second shot on on sport.
Speaker 4: The problem is that in so many cases, what is
Speaker 4: presented to guys after they hit their second shot tends
Speaker 4: to be a very one noted challenge where the.
Speaker 3: Setup is the same, most weights and they're.
Speaker 4: Chipping from the roof and Peter costas the same you
Speaker 4: won't believe how fast this, but it's gonna be afterwards.
Speaker 4: But a chip cop if they have these shaved chipping
Speaker 4: areas and you're chipping onto the loose screens with those
Speaker 4: contours and that speed, I think that becomes an exponentially
Speaker 4: more interesting challenge than the idea of well let's see.
Speaker 2: That's where the skill really I like last year watching
Speaker 2: Aaron Hill's had those shaved off areas. I'll never forget.
Speaker 2: I'm the biggest Lee Westwood fan in the world, and
Speaker 2: I saw west You just sat there with this putter, and.
Speaker 1: I'm watching Patrick Reed chip in and like Lee Westwoods
Speaker 1: just praying for a too put from off the green,
Speaker 1: like just just praying for part. And Patrick Reed's in
Speaker 1: the short grass, He's thinking ship in every single time.
Speaker 1: And that the short grass really allows the short game
Speaker 1: skill to just be you know, the greatest short game
Speaker 1: players love short grass, and the guys that struggle, they
Speaker 1: can't stand short grass. They're just grabbing the potter. They're
Speaker 1: playing defensive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's I.
Speaker 4: Think this is going to be the first Open really
Speaker 4: in a while that we see that Aaron Hills, I
Speaker 4: don't think offered as many options around the green or
Speaker 4: didn't demand as much of players around the green as as.
Speaker 3: Jimnacock will in first to the USGA, that was.
Speaker 4: The first Open to their credit where they were relying
Speaker 4: upon the vagaries of the weather to help out.
Speaker 3: Now you see that in the Open Championship every year.
Speaker 4: It may be the only defense those courses actually have
Speaker 4: any course when the Open broke up.
Speaker 3: Its only defense is the.
Speaker 4: Weather, and last year the USGA was expecting wind and
Speaker 4: ever came, so it just they've turned it into a
Speaker 4: pitching pot.
Speaker 3: Of course those guys.
Speaker 4: That's not going to happen at Chennikov because they don't
Speaker 4: need the weather to really fire up the challenge and
Speaker 4: aft off course, and nor does Carnelsty the gentleman. I mean,
Speaker 4: they'll probably get it at Carneusty, but they don't need
Speaker 4: it there. And I don't think they need the weather
Speaker 4: either at Chenneka.
Speaker 2: Who's gonna win the US Open and who's gonna.
Speaker 3: Win the Open Championship?
Speaker 5: Oh boy?
Speaker 4: Not to fill I don't think Phil Everyone's is open
Speaker 4: at this tage. We played one hundred and seventeen of
Speaker 4: these things and the number will have been won by
Speaker 4: forty seven year old men zero and I.
Speaker 2: Keep hearing, especially once to have a propancior driver portly exactly,
Speaker 2: and that it doesn't really set up.
Speaker 4: Now you could also argue doesn't balance out because Phil
Speaker 4: is pretty sharp around the greens with his creativity, that
Speaker 4: having no shape areas might actually cheap fill in the
Speaker 4: game a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: If this driver is a little bit wayward.
Speaker 4: I think he just had to look at guys who's
Speaker 4: got a really good short game. As odd as he's
Speaker 4: playing right now, I wouldn't rule out Jordan speak because
Speaker 4: he's got The US Open seems made for that kid,
Speaker 4: because he's got a way of somehow in that overstowed
Speaker 4: fashion getting the ball in the hole.
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of ugly drama that goes along.
Speaker 4: The way, whether he's on the driving range at Birkefield
Speaker 4: or he's just hitting it all over the shop at
Speaker 4: Augusta National and getting it done.
Speaker 3: He figures out how to get the ball in the hole.
Speaker 3: Whereas you have a lot of.
Speaker 4: Guys out there with a lot of prettier s rigning
Speaker 4: is a lot more confident, but when it comes crunch
Speaker 4: time on Sunday afternoon, their self belief seems to waiver
Speaker 4: quite a bit, and the US Open has a way
Speaker 4: of crunching guy's self belief out of them. I could
Speaker 4: see Stiff actually winning despite his playing issues because on
Speaker 4: Green's Land in a cup, everyone that's going to put
Speaker 4: early by by the standards.
Speaker 3: Of what they do on any given week. So the
Speaker 3: US Open is almost kind of even off the field.
Speaker 3: Ethy get putting because it's such a challenge for everyone.
Speaker 4: And at Karnasty as they call it Stotland, it's just
Speaker 4: a matter of you know, who's going to be the
Speaker 4: most patient guy there? It's you look at the the
Speaker 4: last two opens. There are two of the last three.
Speaker 4: You have Tom Watson in seventy five, Paul Laurie Flinty
Speaker 4: Scotsman in ninety nine and Potler Carrington in two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven. It's not an excellent that those guys win
Speaker 4: at Carney Steam because when something goes wrong, they don't
Speaker 4: sit and put and have history onics like a lot
Speaker 4: of guys and to do so you're taking them Baba and.
Speaker 3: I think Bubba Will should probably do this flight home.
Speaker 4: But those guys, they're you know, stoicism is a great
Speaker 4: trick to have in and up and championship because they
Speaker 4: tend to put their head died and.
Speaker 3: Just try to power alan through whatever the challenge of.
Speaker 4: Disappointment is that just been hit with and that's the
Speaker 4: kind of character I would expect to come out on
Speaker 4: top again this time around.
Speaker 2: Is justin rosa Hall of famer already.
Speaker 4: No, Now, I don't think anyone in the one major championship,
Speaker 4: and I don't count of Monty's three senior majors as majors.
Speaker 3: If you have a title sponsor, you're not a major championship.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into some overrated underrated Here. Overrated
Speaker 2: underrated the performance of the winner of the nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: eight Greater Vancouver Open, and this is from Lubron James.
Speaker 7: It suppose it depends on what category we're rigging him
Speaker 7: over under As a TV analyst, I think he's peerless
Speaker 7: as a drinking companion, also peerless as a nurturing golf coach.
Speaker 4: Already lovesy, but as a friend pretty good, So I
Speaker 4: think the balance is out of the positive side of
Speaker 4: the venture for mister Chumbley. Underrated, I think he's a Yeah,
Speaker 4: I would regard him as underrated, but it's also undersized.
Speaker 5: So it's appropriate. Swing demons, which one just in general,
Speaker 5: our swing demons overrated or well, with.
Speaker 4: Me, they are. They're more overwhelming than anything else because
Speaker 4: I made a mistake about five years ago involve attempting
Speaker 4: to get better on the point or I almost no
Speaker 4: longer play, and Chamblee has told me for years that
Speaker 4: I was uncoachable, and I think I'm on the cusp
Speaker 4: of finally admitting that the little guy might actually be right.
Speaker 2: All right. Overrated underrated shipping six irons. This is from
Speaker 2: Joshul A Belt.
Speaker 3: I think in general it's an underrated skin. But when
Speaker 3: you were doing it yesterday, when the breaking down the
Speaker 3: hole in the sandbox, I thought it was a little overrated.
Speaker 3: I would have felt a little bit better about it
Speaker 3: if you'd at least warned shoes while.
Speaker 2: You were doing our golf is overrated or under it.
Speaker 5: They were.
Speaker 3: Essentially, they're neither underrated ruby, they just should be worn.
Speaker 3: No shoes, no service.
Speaker 2: All right, mamon, it's been fun having me on. We'll
Speaker 2: have to do something around one of these majors, but
Speaker 2: thanks for coming on. People can read your writing. What
Speaker 2: you've got coming up on golf week.
Speaker 3: I got to write something in the next couple of days.
Speaker 3: What it is, who knows. I'm literally used to visit.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll write about my deans.
Speaker 2: I'd like to know what they look like.
Speaker 3: You've been listening to the fried Egg podcast.
Speaker 2: We do the digging for you.