WEBVTT - Dara Khosrowshahi 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:05.720 In August of Dorak kasro Shaw, he became the CEO 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:10.680 of Uber, succeeding founder Travis Kalenik kasros Shaw. He manages 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.160 a company's fast growing business in sixty three countries around 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.560 the world and leads a global team of more than 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:21.400 twenty two thousand employees. He was previously the CEO of Expedia, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.080 which he grew into one of the world's largest online 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.040 travel companies. Kasro Shaw he spoke with David Rubinstein, co 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.800 founder of the Carlisle Group and host of the Bloomberg 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.400 television show Peter Peer Conversations. They discussed the company, the 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.600 future of transportation and self driving vehicles. You've been the 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:44.920 CEO of Uber for how long now y years? And 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.720 you enjoy it. I love it, Okay. So when you 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.320 came in, the company was not public company. You've taken 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.000 the public and you've received a lot of publicity about 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.680 the I p O. Obviously, you know that the company 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.000 now I was a higher market capitalization roughly seventy two 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.959 billion dollars something like that, higher market capitalization than any 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:11.400 company in American capitalism history except for Facebook. This short 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.640 time after um it's I P O. Why are you 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.440 are so many people criticizing you for having a seventy 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.280 two billion dollar market cap. Well, I think that there 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.840 are many critics out there, especially for the for large companies, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.200 that that that's a fact of life. I do think 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.760 that what's different about UH some of the technology companies 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.960 of our generation that are coming public, the so called unicorns, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:42.399 is that we've actually stayed private for longer UH and 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.680 we have raised more money over a long our perd 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.880 of time, and as a result, when we come public, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.680 we generally have bigger scale than companies who went public, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.840 let's say the last generation of companies that that went 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.800 public as well. But my view on this is we 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.240 wanted to go public. We needed to make sure that 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.680 we are well capitalized for the next five years for 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.080 the company, and we achieve that, and now the time 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:07.440 is to put your head down and get the real 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.760 work done. After the company did go public, while I 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.720 kind of pointed out that it is a very high 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.840 market capitalization, UH so soon after UH It's I p O, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.960 it did go down by about eleven which is a 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.360 record decline after an I p O. So did you 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.280 think the investment bankers didn't price it correctly or what 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:27.920 do you think the problem was on the I p O. 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.200 You know, I love how this interview is starting. I 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:36.960 really appreciate that. Um. I think that's actually the the 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.880 timing of our I p O was very much aligned 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:45.600 with our president's tariff wars the same day. So I 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.840 think we got caught up in a bit of a 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.480 market swirl and there's nothing you can do about that. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.239 And what I tell the team is it's a short 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.799 term the market can be a voting machine, but long 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.960 term it's a weighing machine, and we are focused on 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.120 the waging and I'm very confident that if we as 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.840 a team execute, the market will appreciate it. By the way, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:06.400 how did you get here? You didn't take an Uber? 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.880 Did you? Unfortunately, when I come here, I need some 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.760 professional secure Do you take Uber time of time? Yeah? 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.160 This weekend with the family, we're taking Ubers all over 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.360 the place. Absolutely. So when you take an uber um, 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.600 that's just that's let's talk about the ride sharing part. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.919 You take an uber um? Do they know who you are? 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.200 It's about fifty fifty and the ones that don't know you, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.080 you just give them comments on how good they are 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:31.960 or not. How do you make sure They're are very 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.399 polite and make sure that I don't slam the door, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.080 ask them how they're doing. If I get on the 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.839 phone call, I asked them, you know, is it okay 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.000 to make a phone call, etcetera. So I try to 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.600 be as nice as I can because I'm trying to 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.960 improve my Uber ratings. Actually not as good as I've noticed. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.560 You have said before that people shouldn't slam the doors. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.240 Is that a big problem. Uh, it's if you're driving 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.480 a car and you've got tens twenty passengers coming in 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.960 the car is really an asset of yours, your cup 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.320 and he has roughly employees. Yes, all right, but you 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.960 have three million more show drivers, almost four million drivers 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.040 and couriers now on a global basis, you're in sixty 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.800 three countries or and five cities or something like that. 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.080 You have been briefed very effectively. Okay, impressive, all right? 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.520 Today in the United States? Is it is it increasing 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.840 in terms of users or is it going to study 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.080 or is it going down? No, it's increasing in every 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.240 single market. So the growth rates are we as a 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.560 company of the last quarter that we announced as a 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.680 newly public company, we announced that on a foreign exchange 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.039 neutral basis. We grew our bookings forty year on the year, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.080 and this is off of a pretty considerable base of 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.240 bookings almost fifteen billion kind of run rate on a 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.760 quarterly basis. So the business is growing at very big scale, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.080 at pretty impressive rates. But last quarter when you had 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.320 your earnings announcement, you did lose a billion dollars during 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.919 the previous quarter. Yes, I'm sure you know this by 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.720 those are details that are important, but you know so, um, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.800 how much longer can you lose a billion dollars a 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.840 quarter and keep going? We have a very significant amount 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.760 of cash in the bank. You've got eight billion dollars 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.640 from the I p O. And you already had some money. Yeah, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.880 we we already had some money. So the company at 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:21.200 this point is incredibly well capitalized, uh to keep investing. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.440 And the markets that were going after the transportation of people, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:30.320 food trade, these are these markets represent sixteen trillion dollar 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.400 markets that were going after all, right, and if you 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.320 look at even Uber, the ride share business itself, when 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.160 you look at our audience of the countries in which 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.720 we operate, typically we are addressing no more than two 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.800 of the population of these countries. So we think it's 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:52.320 time to lean forward. The business itself can be quite profitable. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.440 We're confident of that. But the next two three four 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.600 years are going to be about growth, and then we'll 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.800 flip it over as the market demands. So if I 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.920 to the have a ride share, let's say, ready after 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.359 this interview and go somewhere, why should I pick Uber 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.040 versus your competitors, let's say Lift or V. I think 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.960 we have lots of competitors who are very good at 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:16.400 what at what they do. I think we typically in 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.840 most markets and pretty much every market that we operate, 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.440 we have the greatest number of drivers out of the market, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.880 so we've got the best liquidity, so you're probably going 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.120 to get the best e t A so you'll get 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.920 the quickest driver to to pick you up. The choices 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.680 that we have are pretty impressive. So for example, in 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.000 in d C, now we have transit schedules right on 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.960 the app, So we really want to move from a 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.919 ride hailing app to essentially your transportation partner, so that 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.480 if you're trying to get from A to B, we're 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.880 gonna give you all the information that you have, which 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.640 many of our competitors don't do. To be able to 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.320 get from A to B with a tradeoff of time, convenience, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:59.000 and price as well. So right now you have many 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.440 different businesses. Ride sharing is the one that you're most 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.360 famous for, but actually it's more profitable I think for 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.039 you is Uber eats? Is that right? Uber Eats is 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.600 more profitable now. Ride sharing is is more profitable in 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.800 most markets. It's it's the more mature part of the business. 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.280 The Uber eats business is now about twenty percent of 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.880 our business. It's growing over a hundred percent on a year. 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.480 On your basis, the run rate is is enormous. We're 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.320 now the largest UH food delivery player ex China, and 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.920 we entered this business three years ago as a revenue percentage. 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.120 Right now it's what percentage of you it's about of 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.920 our booking. How many cities that in eats is now 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.760 in over five hundred cities. What's the most popular food 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.200 that on your Uber eats? Fried chicken is magic fried chicken? 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.720 And how do you keep the grease from kind of 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.080 going through? I mean they just David, I'm covering that 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.160 in my next next monthly business review. I haven't gone 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.240 to fried chicken grease? Okay, that's the most popular. Yeah, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.680 let's talk about some of your other businesses over here. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.960 You have, I guess, your scooter business and your electric 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.720 bike business. So the scooter business um is all over 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.360 the United States and around the world. Are Uh, it's 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.400 in about twenty five cities now and expanding mostly in 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.960 the US, but we're spending into Europe pretty quickly as well. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.720 You have your scooter that's manufactured just for you, is it? 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.320 There's it different than the scooters and other companies use. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.040 We are building a scooter that's manufactured just for us. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.400 The bike is manufactured just by us, and it's designed 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.439 by us, totally proprietary. Now, some people say scooters are dangerous. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.240 What do you say about that? I think that that 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.200 is It's something that we're watching pretty carefully. Uh, and 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.400 we are working on technologies to modulate those issues. So, 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.880 for example, when scooters get too very busy parts of town, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.480 we will slow them down. Uh. Some of these scooters 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.240 early on, they went as as high as twenty miles 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.560 an hour. Now we're working with cities to say, hey, 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.679 how asked do you think is a responsible speed. We 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.080 encourage our writers to our helmets. Now you have a 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:11.559 new product which is helicopters. Yes, yes, Okay, now you've 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.400 launched that in a couple of cities, so from New 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.040 York City so far we have yes, and it's a 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.600 service from downtown New York to JFK. Are great demand 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.400 for that. What we'll see um as as you may know, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.959 going to JFK during rush hour in New York City 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.800 is a mess. Uh And and really what we are 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.280 trying to what is that to do? If you want 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.600 to go from downtown Manhattan to JFK, what is that 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:41.160 an ubercopter? Yes, about two ducks, which is actually fairly 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.080 if you take if you're going from downtown New York 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.760 to JFK within uber black, it's going to cost close 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.120 to two dollars anyway. So the magic about being able 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.760 to do it in a helicopter is that we're bringing 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.120 in demand from thousands of users who are going to JFK, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.160 and we're matching three or for users and we're putting 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.240 them in the same vehicle. So one of the keys 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.520 in terms of traffic is most people drive alone, and 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.760 that's a that's a huge waste of our roads, is 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.680 a huge waste of gas, etcetera. And we have a 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.440 protocol pool while we're matched two or three or four 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:20.880 different riders into one car. And essentially our ubercopter is 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.400 pool for the air. And what you'll see is that 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.760 these helicopters are going to be replaced by a generation 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.360 of electrically powered vertical takeoff and landing. Now will they 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:37.679 ever be driverless? They will eventually be driverless, but we 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.520 are absolutely going to start with pilots. I think it's 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.560 a safer way to go, but I think you you 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.440 can expect that in the aviation industry in general, UM 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:51.080 they are absolutely taking a look at either computers assisting 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.679 pilots more and more. There are some controversies with that 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.720 or over a long long period of time, uh, going 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:03.439 driverlesss or pilotless. Let's talk about your driverless or autonomous business. Yeah, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.199 you took a lot of people from Carnegie Mellon. Yes 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.800 we didn't out of the robotics department. And you have 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:11.240 said recently that you think it's not going to happen 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.360 so quickly as people have previously said. How long will 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.120 it be before your UM ride ride program or your 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.400 driver program is one where there's no drivers, no drivers. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.120 I think it'll be it'll be fifteen plus years. I 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.240 think it will take a long time. So I think 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.680 there's this drama around robots replacing humans, and I think 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.840 the reality of life is that the better thing that 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.400 humans alone and robots alone or robots and humans working together, okay, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.600 And and and so robots are very well designed for 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:50.720 replacing repetitive um predictable behaviors. Most of driving is not 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.400 either repetitive or predictable, but there's a subset of routes 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.280 that are. So what you'll see with our driverless program 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.320 is at one, we're going to be incredibly careful and 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.679 we're gonna make sure safety absolutely comes first. But we 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.040 are building our driver list program, and by the way, 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.120 we're working with third parties as well, within a context 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.160 of a network where for example, in d C, we 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.600 are data scientists know what are the one percent easiest 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.280 trips in d C UH And an easy trip in 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.480 d C may may be avoid a round about, avoid 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.920 an unprotected left turn, stay away, let's say, from the airports, 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.800 stay on areas that are very very well mapped. There 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.440 are a set of routes that are incredibly easy to drive. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.400 And what you'll see with us as far as our 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.600 driver list program is we will get the machines to 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.240 do the simple stuff, and then we will have the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.280 humans do the difficult stuff, and the two are going 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.440 to coexist for ten fifteen years, for long period of time, 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.160 versus kind of the let's say the drama that the 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.079 that the press work. Your fifteen year answer was intended 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.640 to mean no drivers at all, but you expect to 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.679 have some driverless or autonomous vehicles uh in a year 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.280 or two or three or four. Within the next five years, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.680 you can see some driver list vehicles out in the markets. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.120 And again I think it's going to be in a 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.319 very very limited way. Now, you spun off your autonomous 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.439 or driver lists part of your company to a separate company. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.479 Why did you do that? We created a separate company 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:21.319 that where we were able to bring in some investors 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.000 and some partners, UH Toyota, who is as you know, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.800 a huge O E. M. And we have a terrific 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.000 partnership with Toyota Denso, which is a Toyota company as 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.080 well that is very strong in manufacturing kits and sensors 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.960 and other parts of the car. Um and really bringing 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.640 in Toyota and Denso was about building these autonomous vehicles 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:47.080 at scale. And then we also brought in um Masa 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.640 and soft Bank as a financial partner as well. SoftBank 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.959 is your biggest single investor still yes, And they went 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.720 in at evaluation that is above or right where you 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.000 currently are below. SoftBank got a decent and I think 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.560 it will get more decent with time. So when was 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.640 the company actually first started and who actually started the company? 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.600 The company was started about nine years ago and it 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.800 was started by Garrett Camp who is an entrepreneur. He's 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.520 still on a board. He's he's unbelievably smart guy. Uh 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.240 So he brought on Travis Kalenik, who is our former 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.880 CEO and one of the founders as well. And so 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.320 Garrett and Travis and then another one of our founds 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.840 Ryan really teamed up to build this thing. How many 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.000 of the people who were there at the beginning, And um, 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:35.960 I've on a lot of stock, in fact, a lot 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.640 of people in the company, oh more stock than you do. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.320 You're the CEO. You think you're underpaid because you know 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.360 you're you've taken a public and you don't own as 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.120 much stock as some people working for you. Is that 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.680 a problem for you? Uh? It is? I would never 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:53.080 claim that I'm underpaid. You grew up not in the 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.960 United States. Where were you born? I was born in Iran, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.800 actually okay, And uh, why did you leave Iran? I 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.320 after Iran in I was nine years old and this 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.640 was with when the Iranian Revolution happened. Uh. My family 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.200 was an industrial family while off and when the show 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.040 was overthrown. Uh, folks like my family were no longer 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.680 welcoming Iran. So we left Iran and we went to 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.120 France actually to wait until things calmed down. And things 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.160 never calmed down. Uh. And then we went from France 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.200 to Irvington, New York, where we stayed in my uncle's 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.440 house because we had no no other place to stay. 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.800 So you went to high school in in uh, in Terrytown, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.800 New York. Happy school. And then you went to Brown. Yes, 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.760 I studied bioelectrical engineering and Brown and then threw it 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.280 all the way to be an investment banker in New 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.600 York City. So go figure. So you were at Alan 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.560 and Company for the years, and uh, you didn't want 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.760 to go into private equity. The higher calling of investment 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.640 banking was good enough. You know. It was a question 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.840 of just how evil I wanted to be, and I 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.440 wanted to be. It's a little less either, Okay, all right, Okay, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.400 you could have gone to hedge funds everywhere, that's the ultimate. Okay, Well, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.240 well that I would have had horns. Okay. So you're 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.280 minding your own business and alan company, and then all 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.160 of a sudden you've got to work for Barry Barry Diller. Yes, 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.640 how did he know of you? I was a grunt 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.880 analyst on a deal for Barry Dealer. Barry Dealer was 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.120 this was he was bidding against some of their red Stone. 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.040 It was a big battle in in Wall Street. He 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.960 was bidding against some of the rest for Paramount. It 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.360 was a back and forth, it was. It was an 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.280 unfriendly bid he was. He was not wanted, but we 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.840 put up a big fight. And I got to know 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.240 Barry over that period of time, and I thought to myself, 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.280 you know, if I ever had the chance to work 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.800 for that person, I want to work for that person. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.960 And and I got the chance eventually. All right, So 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.320 you went to work for him? Yes? And then ultimately 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.640 um one of the companies he owned was Expedia, Yes, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.440 and the own it before you joined or you I was, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.120 So I went to work for him as the deal person. Uh. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:04.960 And so we did a bunch of deals and brought 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.040 in companies in the travel space. We bought both Hotels 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.840 dot Com and Expedia. Uh. And they were part of 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.600 the family, and they were part of the family to 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.320 some sent because of the deals that we did when 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.440 I came in. All right, so you became the CEO 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.320 of Expedia. I did, yes. And did you have any 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.880 experience in being a c O? Why did he think 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:22.719 you'd be good at being a c O? Um? He 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.280 was desperate? Okay, so h we we were in a 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.960 situation where um, one of the founders of Expedia, who 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.000 was running speedy at the time, decided And this kind 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.800 of stuff happens very naturally, which is founding a company. 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.679 Building a company is different from managing it and moving 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.399 it into a mature state. Uh. And Uh, this person 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.639 decided that, Hey, I'm not up for the CEO gig anymore, Barry, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.760 can you find a replacement? Um? And you were not 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.400 the first. Uh. You know, I have no idea. I've 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.919 never asked him, but I raised my hand and he 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.720 said yes. All right. And one point, the Expedia board 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.160 gave you, I guess some stock options that were worth 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.960 a hundred eighty million dollars. I guess they did based 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.320 on theoretical values. Okay, And then all of a sudden, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.000 while you're doing a very good job running it and 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.359 maybe gonna get a hundred eighty million on theoretical value, 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.639 at some point, Um, somebody asked you to interview for 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.800 the job of being the CEO of Ubers. And did 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.040 you say I already have a job or yeah? At first, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.520 when I got called that, I said no way. But 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.600 then I I talked to a couple of friends, and 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.080 and you know, you don't get too many chances as 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.160 a professional or otherwise too to work at and especially 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.800 lead a company that I think is a part of 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.000 how we live life. And I just saw it in 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.159 that in this case, this is a once in a 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.840 life opportunity. Did you tell Barry Dealer you were interviewing 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.359 for this? I did. I did very early. As you know, 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.320 the press was all over the place. You don't think 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:56.760 you could have kept a secret? I guess yeah, I couldn't. Barry. Um, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.040 I have Barry to thank for pretty much everything in 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.760 my professional career. Uh, And I could not bear the 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.360 possibility of his hearing about this from some news report. 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.520 Uh so he was the first person that called UM. 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.199 He was pretty unhappy at the beginning, but then he 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:17.960 called me back. We had a series of conversation. He 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.119 called me back and he said, listen, I understand why 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.520 you're doing this. Let me know how I can be helpful. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.840 And he was genuinely helpful as we went along this journey, 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.119 and and uh, you know, we are where we are now. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.160 And he didn't remind you of the hundred eighty million 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.639 dollars in stockhoferce. He didn't PERMANI of that or um. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.159 He understood that the reason why I would do this 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.920 was not necessarily monetary. So when you came in, you 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.000 were replacing Travis Kalenik, who was one of the founders 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.159 and a big careholder, one of the biggest shareholders, but 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.680 he still was on your board. Yes, So was that 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.879 awkward to be the CEO replacing somebody who's still on 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.840 the board a big shareholder. Was that easy to do 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.240 or not? Yeah, listen, I'm I'm the I feel the 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.800 same way. I'm on the board of Expedia and I'm 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.920 the former CEO and there's a new CEO who actually 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.280 I picked Marco Christram, Who's Who's who's the board CEO? 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.199 And I'll tell you being a former CEO, it's a 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:13.639 little weird sitting there and having someone else do something 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.720 differently with your baby, because I think Uber feels like 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.800 Travis's baby and Expedia felt like mine, And it's a 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.240 little weird. But you know what. You you're respectful, you 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.240 get out of the way, you give the CEO support, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.239 and I think Travis has done the same for me. 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.119 So it's is it weird, yes? But are we in 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.920 a situation where we're respectful and comfortable and is he 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.520 there for me when I need his advice? Yes? And 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.720 what's the biggest challenge you currently see the company facing? 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.960 Maybe the biggest challenge that that we have is a 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.600 is a common challenge that you see with some of 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:49.399 the large technology companies out there, which is there is 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:54.040 an increasing regulatory burden uh that is coming on some 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.120 of the tech company some of it deserved. Let's suppose 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:58.800 I have some extra money and I wanted to buy 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.760 into a company like yours. Why should I buy you? 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.040 I think you have some extra money, don't you never 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.080 have enough? But well, why should I buy your stock? 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:09.919 Is it likely to go up from where it is, 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.760 and why is it likely to outperform some of your competitors. 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.159 I have no idea where it's going next week or 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.080 next month, but over a long period of time, we 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:26.000 are at the cusp of a transportation revolution. We are 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.399 we We are the player that's global. We're the player 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.960 that is multiproduct in terms of moving people, food, things 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.280 with our freight business as well. We have a much 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.920