Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2: Domestic violence is a problem. It has been a problem
Speaker 2: for years and to some people, you've definitely experienced a
Speaker 2: form of domestic violence or you've witnessed it, and I
Speaker 2: just want you to know that you are loved and
Speaker 2: you have value. This episode could possibly be triggering, as
Speaker 2: this is going to be the topic of discussion with
Speaker 2: a licensed expert in this area who also experienceperience domestic
Speaker 2: violence in college. Her name is doctor Shanita Brown, and
Speaker 2: I am so glad that we have her with us
Speaker 2: today and this is a safe space. But if you
Speaker 2: feel like it could be a little too much for
Speaker 2: you for this episode, do not feel pressured to listen
Speaker 2: or if you want to.
Speaker 3: Grab a friend.
Speaker 2: And listen together and process and whatever it is that
Speaker 2: you have to do. But again, Michelle, everybody at Black Effect,
Speaker 2: everybody that helps Checking In this podcast to be what
Speaker 2: it is. We want you to know that we love you,
Speaker 2: we see you, and you have so much value.
Speaker 4: Hey, everybody, this is another another amazing week of checking in.
Speaker 4: This episode is probably going to be definitely all my
Speaker 4: episodes are serious, but I do want to put a disclaimer.
Speaker 4: What we are going to be discussing could definitely be triggering.
Speaker 4: So I just want to ensure that you are in
Speaker 4: a safe space as we will be talking about domestic violence,
Speaker 4: sexual assault. I just want to make sure that you
Speaker 4: are in a safe space or you have some safe
Speaker 4: people around you. Should something that you hear in this
Speaker 4: episode should be triggering. Our goal is not to trigger anyone,
Speaker 4: but to bring awareness, and so that's what we are
Speaker 4: going to do today with someone absolutely awesome. She is
Speaker 4: a speaker and educator, licensed professional counselor and train or.
Speaker 4: Her work has been featured in.
Speaker 5: Essence and Forbes, so many amazing platforms, and I'm glad
Speaker 5: that she is taking time out to check in. Please welcome,
Speaker 5: doctor Shanita Brown.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Michelle's an honor to be here.
Speaker 4: You are so so welcome. Where are you checking in from?
Speaker 3: I am checking in from Raleigh, North Carolina. Shout out
Speaker 3: to North Carolina, originally from Kinston, North Carolina. To go
Speaker 3: to two five to two and I love what I do, Michelle,
Speaker 3: it isn't working. You mentioned people being triggered, and you
Speaker 3: know triggers are an indicator that parts of us where
Speaker 3: we need to heal. So I appreciate you having that
Speaker 3: disclaimer and talking about something that we need to talk
Speaker 3: about every day, not just doing Domestic Violence Awareness Month
Speaker 3: or Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but every day because of
Speaker 3: the statistics and how so many people are impacted by
Speaker 3: domestic and sexual violence.
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, but I used to be
Speaker 4: ashamed if I felt triggered by something. But now I
Speaker 4: just take the power back and say, oh, it's okay. This,
Speaker 4: Like you said, this is just showing you an area
Speaker 4: that you're healing or you need to impact something, absolutely
Speaker 4: getting down to the why, and so to encourage people.
Speaker 4: Triggers aren't anything to be ashamed about, right, There's.
Speaker 3: Nothing wrong with them. They're messages, they're indicators, and they're
Speaker 3: just telling you, hey, look at me, look at alert. Alert.
Speaker 3: We can have good triggers too, you know, in my
Speaker 3: own healing, and I've talked about in my own experience
Speaker 3: with domestic violence, or there were parts of my experience
Speaker 3: where I was triggered. I remember who my friends were
Speaker 3: that looked out for me, and so there were some
Speaker 3: happy moments that even doing something that was so devastating
Speaker 3: then trying to find my voice that I have people
Speaker 3: in my community and in my network that reminded me
Speaker 3: you deserve something better. Yeah, so those are happy triggers.
Speaker 4: M So, as we're discussing domestic violence, you don't have
Speaker 4: to go too deep into your own story. Sure, but
Speaker 4: I think it's probably it makes people feel safe, heard
Speaker 4: or understood when they're like, I don't just have a
Speaker 4: practitioner speaking from expertise. Well, you're speaking from real life.
Speaker 4: You're not speaking textbook.
Speaker 3: Is what I'm into say, absolutely lived experiences here, I
Speaker 3: identify as a warrior of domestic violence, not only a survivor,
Speaker 3: but I have the lived experience and what that's like
Speaker 3: as a black woman as well a woman of faith
Speaker 3: in that healing journey. So I come from two perspectives.
Speaker 3: You know, a trauma therapist and that's the one who's
Speaker 3: had the lived experiences of trying to get out.
Speaker 4: Now, you could have went any in any track or
Speaker 4: specialty as it relates to your field. Is because of
Speaker 4: your experience that you chose.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm going to be in the area of trauma.
Speaker 5: It could be workplace psychology.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think you know right In my dissertation and
Speaker 3: wanting to work with black women, women who were of
Speaker 3: women of faith and have had experience with domestic violence.
Speaker 3: Black women in general do not have enough resources, and
Speaker 3: we experience domessic violence more than any other ethnicity. So
Speaker 3: it's important. Yes, forty four percent compared to our white
Speaker 3: counterparts and other ethnicities. And so I wanted to be
Speaker 3: able to study and go deeper and to be able
Speaker 3: to help women get free.
Speaker 4: M I got about two or three questions just in
Speaker 4: that nugget that you dropped. First of all, that black
Speaker 4: women suffered domestic violence more, because now it's making me
Speaker 4: go back to slavery. Was it because that's something that
Speaker 4: unfortunately we know all too well from slavery. Right, that
Speaker 4: just blows my mind. And second, you talked about women
Speaker 4: of faith. How maybe women are just told to stay
Speaker 4: in their marriages, stay in that relationship.
Speaker 3: God's gonna work it out. Just keep praying for them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: stay and pray. Get on your knees. He's dragging me
Speaker 3: on my knees though. Yeah, women are taught to stay
Speaker 3: in these you post the women I've taught to keep
Speaker 3: the family together, right traditionally thinking about slavery, right, what
Speaker 3: the role of women. Domestic violence is a systemic issue, okay,
Speaker 3: And so when we were talking about that four hundred
Speaker 3: gap in history, it's about power and control. It's literally
Speaker 3: when somebody tries to maintain power and control over another
Speaker 3: person in a relationship. And a lot of times we
Speaker 3: don't know what healthy relationships look like.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of images of how we grew up.
Speaker 3: It could be a relational template, it could be what
Speaker 3: we're seeing in the media, and so there are a
Speaker 3: number of factors. But it is that power and control
Speaker 3: that we don't reorganize. Sometimes we think it's love, right,
Speaker 3: we have songs and think, oh, he's trying to take myself. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's so cute, he's picking out my outfits. But a
Speaker 3: lot of that are red flags and we don't know
Speaker 3: what some of those signs are of red flags and
Speaker 3: green flags, and we think it's love, we think it's excited.
Speaker 3: And so, yes, we have to raise awareness about domestic balance.
Speaker 3: It's that power and control. It is not a mental illness.
Speaker 3: Domestic violence is a choice. I want I want listeners
Speaker 3: to understand that a perpetrator or abuser is engaging in
Speaker 3: tactics to maintain power and control over someone. They are
Speaker 3: choosing to do that.
Speaker 4: I was going to ease into what does it feel like,
Speaker 4: what does it look like? But you've already named something,
Speaker 4: whereas like girl, he was looking through my phone, he
Speaker 4: was trying to figure out who was calling a text
Speaker 4: to be honey. He wants to make sure honey that
Speaker 4: he is the only one.
Speaker 3: But you're like, it's seem cute, but it could be right,
Speaker 3: a red flag, right, so nobody gets nobody shows up
Speaker 3: as controlling in the beginning. So during that honeymoon stage
Speaker 3: and all love Dovey's like, oh my god, he just
Speaker 3: loves me or you know, and want to put this
Speaker 3: out there, there are men who experience abuse as well.
Speaker 3: So the abusic can be a woman. But statistically, what
Speaker 3: we know is that more women experience and we're thinking
Speaker 3: about genda, more women experience domesticized on black women. Men
Speaker 3: don't report it for a number of reasons. You know,
Speaker 3: they're taught how they are socialized, right, how they're socializing.
Speaker 3: You know, you have to man up, you have to
Speaker 3: be hard. You know, you don't go and tell somebody
Speaker 3: that a woman is beating on you or control of you.
Speaker 3: You're a punk. You assisted, right, And so they don't
Speaker 3: speak up. The number of reasons why man don't speak up,
Speaker 3: But you ask, what does it feel like? What does
Speaker 3: it look like? Michelle? Is a war zone. You're constantly
Speaker 3: on pins and needles, like you're walking on eggshells. You're
Speaker 3: for battle. That's what it feels like. You don't even
Speaker 3: know that you're in a war zone. You become so
Speaker 3: used to that.
Speaker 4: I was speaking with someone and they said he was
Speaker 4: this was unlike any relationship.
Speaker 3: I ever had.
Speaker 4: When I met him, it was love at first sight.
Speaker 4: And when he met me, he told me it was
Speaker 4: love at first sight. And I'm just wondering these abusers,
Speaker 4: I feel like they study you or maybe they'll get
Speaker 4: you to be vulnerable and tell you about your past
Speaker 4: love life or your past relationship.
Speaker 3: And doctor she needed.
Speaker 4: Do they show up as everything you've ever wanted and needed?
Speaker 3: Well depends up. Yeah, well yeah, because you can be
Speaker 3: very vulnerable and it feels good like through trauma bonding, right,
Speaker 3: And so you know we think about trauma bonding. Your
Speaker 3: your wounds are connected to someone else and so it
Speaker 3: feels safe, it feels secure, and it feels good and
Speaker 3: in that moment, you don't realize that, Oh he's showering
Speaker 3: me all these gifts and he can't wait to see
Speaker 3: me again, or I'm the only one who's ever done
Speaker 3: this with him, or he's telling me all these things
Speaker 3: like love vomit. You don't know what that is. And
Speaker 3: you're right. They are doing a lot of things to
Speaker 3: speak to the parts of you that are wounded and
Speaker 3: not heal. And it feels good and it feels safe,
Speaker 3: and it becomes like a drug that getting oss like
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that because it just feels
Speaker 3: like I can never get out. It feels weird. It's
Speaker 3: that neurological, the chemicals that are released when you are
Speaker 3: with someone, and they make you feel safe, just like crack, right,
Speaker 3: people getting off of drugs, like, oh my god, I
Speaker 3: cannot believe. It's like going through withdraws very hard, and
Speaker 3: that tends to keep women and survivors in that cycle
Speaker 3: because of trauma bonding. Right, It's like, I cannot get
Speaker 3: out of this, and while they go back. It takes
Speaker 3: seven attempts for a person to successfully leave, because they
Speaker 3: left and they go back, or you know, their boyfriend
Speaker 3: or the partner may say say something and they put
Speaker 3: them back in this honeymoon phase or you know, I
Speaker 3: didn't really mean it, or you know, I'm sorry, and
Speaker 3: if you would have done this, then I would have
Speaker 3: done that way, So they begin to that cycle starts
Speaker 3: again and you don't hear that that person just said,
Speaker 3: if you wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: done that. For example, there's no accountability.
Speaker 4: What are the ages that this starts as far as
Speaker 4: the person who is the abuser.
Speaker 3: Well, it can start very early because you know teen
Speaker 3: dating violence, right, and so the ages of adolescence, you know,
Speaker 3: teen Dating Violence Awareness Month is in February, but that
Speaker 3: age range is most at risk for getting into an
Speaker 3: abusive relationship. One. They don't know what healthy relationships look like, okay,
Speaker 3: and so if you grew up in a home where
Speaker 3: you witness abuse, you're more at risk to become an abuser,
Speaker 3: and you're more at resk to experience trauma bonding, you're
Speaker 3: more at risk to get in an unhealthy relationship. Talksic relationship,
Speaker 3: because that's what that became the template for you. Me
Speaker 3: and you, we had some dming and some stuff on Instagram,
Speaker 3: and y'all, let me tell you that's the power of
Speaker 3: social media when it's used in a good way. Absolutely,
Speaker 3: how doctor she Needa Brown.
Speaker 4: Think she popped up on my Explorer page or maybe
Speaker 4: somebody reposted something she said, and I immediately pressed follow
Speaker 4: because although she is psychologist, I follow a lot that
Speaker 4: maybe their specialty is in narcissism, which a narcissism can
Speaker 4: actually inflict, you know, physical pain, or I just find
Speaker 4: they specialize in mental health disorders.
Speaker 5: Right, But I loved how this is.
Speaker 4: Your specialty when you told me the statistics, when you
Speaker 4: said one in every.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one in four women will experience some form of
Speaker 3: domestic violence. So intimate partner violence is a number of
Speaker 3: term that consists of domestic violence. Is sexual violence, rape,
Speaker 3: and sexual assault, right, childhood sexual abuse ninety percent. I
Speaker 3: would say ninety five percent of my clients are experiences
Speaker 3: various forms of intimate partner violence. They have experienced some
Speaker 3: form of abuse, maybe in a childhood and now they're
Speaker 3: beginning to see how it shows up in their adulthood life. Right.
Speaker 3: And so that one in four women will experience some
Speaker 3: form of intimate partner violence is a that's a huge statistic.
Speaker 3: Forty four percent of Black women will experience domestic violence,
Speaker 3: they are experiencing it, and so we have to really
Speaker 3: make sure that we pay attention and talk more about
Speaker 3: healthy relationships, more about the green flags, more about the
Speaker 3: red flags, so people can get free. You know, so
Speaker 3: if we don't want people in these unhealthy relationship because
Speaker 3: the impact of that can be lingering, lingering, Michelle, it
Speaker 3: can take years for many survivors to get through that.
Speaker 4: Do you find that if someone has experienced abuse in
Speaker 4: their childhood as an adult, they're more likely to enter
Speaker 4: into an abusive relationship.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it also they're more at rest, yes, But
Speaker 3: it depends on how early they receive help. Right, So
Speaker 3: if they were if they witnessing their child hood and
Speaker 3: they started therapy, or they started recognizing why am I
Speaker 3: like this?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Why do I find myself in repeated patterns? If at
Speaker 3: some point in their life that they started to have
Speaker 3: those questions, perhaps they sought therapy and begin to help
Speaker 3: out and you know, kind of work through those relational
Speaker 3: patterns and so they don't find themselves and repeated unhealthy
Speaker 3: and abusive relationships now, but it starts to manifest later
Speaker 3: and a lot of times, no one is going around,
Speaker 3: top girl, what are your triggers. We're not talking about
Speaker 3: triggers that way. Do you know what your triggers are?
Speaker 3: That is not the norm conversation. And so it becomes
Speaker 3: later that we begin to witness, like why am I
Speaker 3: like this? Why I keep they in the same men
Speaker 3: who are abusive, or they may not be physically abusive,
Speaker 3: but emotionally abusive. That's just as worse because we are
Speaker 3: carrying invisible wounds, these scars that no one can see,
Speaker 3: and just chipping away at our self worth and our
Speaker 3: self esteem.
Speaker 4: It is very, very layered, you know, Like someone was saying, well,
Speaker 4: he told me I was beautiful, and I was trying
Speaker 4: to be judgmental, and I say I was when I
Speaker 4: said this statement. I said, we shouldn't be okay with
Speaker 4: the bare minimum. Yeah, can we know ourselves that were beautiful?
Speaker 4: Or I love it when someone tells me I'm beautiful
Speaker 4: person i'm dating, Yeah, tell me I'm beautiful, although I
Speaker 4: should know it myself. Or he just did things like
Speaker 4: I think what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 3: Maybe if you didn't grow.
Speaker 4: Up with a father who opened up the door for you,
Speaker 4: so when a man does it for the first time,
Speaker 4: you're just like Oh my gosh, he opened up the
Speaker 4: door for me. I feel like it happens within months. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it can't stay the good guy long.
Speaker 3: It starts showing up. It would start showing up. It
Speaker 3: gradually increases, so you get this overwhelmeding. Oh, they just
Speaker 3: want to be with you. Twenty four at seven, they're
Speaker 3: giving you all these gifts and I just I've never
Speaker 3: it's called love bombing, right, and we don't see that.
Speaker 3: So if you've never experienced that, you think that it
Speaker 3: just feels good. He's really into me, he's consistent. You
Speaker 3: don't recognize that. Too much of that in the beginning
Speaker 3: and overbearing of that is a red flag, right. And
Speaker 3: then they gradually keep showering you with gifts, and then
Speaker 3: they you changed the clue to finding out if that's
Speaker 3: love bombing and if there's an indicator of an abuse
Speaker 3: or it can change. You start being available and see
Speaker 3: what happened, and it'll come up. I'm doing all this
Speaker 3: stuff for you, and now you're not available or you
Speaker 3: don't want to see me, it'll start coming up. It
Speaker 3: will start coming out, Oh, you're changing because I want
Speaker 3: to spend time with my friends. I went done this
Speaker 3: for you. I did that for you, So now you
Speaker 3: almost spend time with me. So could signs be they
Speaker 3: isolate you from family and friends? Oh, the isolation. Yes,
Speaker 3: that is an indicator.
Speaker 4: And I feel like it almost makes you want to
Speaker 4: be careful or what you share with potential partners, because
Speaker 4: you could literally what if you're like, man.
Speaker 5: My family just pulls on me all the time.
Speaker 4: And it's like they'll use what you say. And you
Speaker 4: told me your family pulls on you all the time.
Speaker 4: So I just wanted you to myself. I wanted you
Speaker 4: to know what it's like to say yes to you.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, that's a great example manipulators, manipulation. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 3: that gas light. And then you begin to question yourself.
Speaker 3: You think you're going crazy, like did this really just happen? Yeah,
Speaker 3: it just happened, But that gas light is a form
Speaker 3: of psychological abuse where you begin to question your perception
Speaker 3: of reality, like this really didn't happen, And so you
Speaker 3: end up not trusting yourself. You don't trust your decisions,
Speaker 3: You can't trust anything because you're constantly having your mind
Speaker 3: that I can't believe what I'm experiencing or question it
Speaker 3: if the reality is really what it is because I've
Speaker 3: been gas lit so many times and that manipulation. Are
Speaker 3: you sure that didn't really happen. That's not what I said.
Speaker 3: You're just making that up. It was a different way.
Speaker 3: It didn't happen that way. That's not how I remember it.
Speaker 4: And you know, saw some people gaslight and don't even
Speaker 4: know it because maybe you've never heard of the term, right,
Speaker 4: you know, But I feel like it's almost innate responses. Okay,
Speaker 4: So for instance, because I know what the term gaslighting is,
Speaker 4: I know what it feels like. Yeah, and so when
Speaker 4: I'm having conversations with someone, I could be joking and
Speaker 4: be you know how we could be like They'll be
Speaker 4: like Sheanita, you know you was snoring in your sleep,
Speaker 4: and you be like you all was snoring in my sleep.
Speaker 3: That was just you.
Speaker 5: You was having you was dreaming, you was you was
Speaker 5: this so y'all?
Speaker 4: That's that's really It's almost like that you find yourself
Speaker 4: doing a playful gaslight. But why is that so innate
Speaker 4: in us? When someone calls us to the plate of something,
Speaker 4: we say, that's not how I meant it. Yes, that
Speaker 4: is how you meant it, right, And that makes us
Speaker 4: do that it's gaslighting, a defense mechanism in a person
Speaker 4: where maybe they don't.
Speaker 3: Mean to, but they are. I think, you know, because
Speaker 3: gas lighting is not confined to just domestic violence relationships.
Speaker 3: It can happen at the with your physician, It can
Speaker 3: happen in many experiences, in many interpersonal interactions. So it
Speaker 3: is not only in domestic violence. You know, if you
Speaker 3: think about you know, I told my physician A, B
Speaker 3: and C and D. You can't know. It wasn't that way.
Speaker 3: Like I'm sitting here telling you my experience and you're
Speaker 3: questioning what really happened to my body? You got me
Speaker 3: thinking I can't trust what I felt. Yes, yep, sometimes,
Speaker 3: you know. So it isn't just in DV relationships. It
Speaker 3: can be in your day to day interaction with your ball,
Speaker 3: so with your siblings and family, and so I don't
Speaker 3: think people know that they are potentially causing that harm.
Speaker 3: Right now, the word gas light and the word narcissism
Speaker 3: is becoming more popular. You've even had people do posts
Speaker 3: where they're like, oh my gosh, now everybody wants to
Speaker 3: use the term gaslight. Everybody wants to I'm actually glad that.
Speaker 4: The word is becoming popular because now people are going
Speaker 4: to be able to be like, no, this is what you.
Speaker 3: Are doing to me? Or am I doing that? Absolutely? Yes?
Speaker 3: Am I gaslight in somebody? Am I I'm trying to question,
Speaker 3: you know, call some doubt and what someone stated to me.
Speaker 3: And a lot of times I don't think people are
Speaker 3: aware of it. And the way that you can share that,
Speaker 3: you know, basically what I just heard. I feel like
Speaker 3: you're gas lighting me. Now the person at the other end,
Speaker 3: you will hope to say, I'm sorry, I didn't mean
Speaker 3: to do that. What would be helpful or so that
Speaker 3: I don't do that again. Now, an abuser won't do that,
Speaker 3: not at all. They won't take any account of baility. No,
Speaker 3: I didn't do that. No, that's just you. You're making
Speaker 3: this all up. I didn't say that, So they're not
Speaker 3: taking any account of it. It's always your fault. It's
Speaker 3: always your fault and a domestic vascillation. It's always a
Speaker 3: survivor's fault. That's how they see it. But really it's
Speaker 3: not the savibara's fault. It's never the survivor's fault. The
Speaker 3: survivor is surviving. Survivors don't create chaos. They don't create
Speaker 3: the conflict. They're trying to survive the conflict.
Speaker 4: Abuse of any form to anyone listening is never your fault.
Speaker 4: I don't care if you custom out five seconds prior.
Speaker 4: It does not give anybody the right to harm you
Speaker 4: in any kind of way. Now, should I be cussing
Speaker 4: nobody up? Probably not, because let's talk about this. I
Speaker 4: know we're talking about domestic violence, but sometimes people don't
Speaker 4: even know that what you say to somebody is considered
Speaker 4: verbal abuse.
Speaker 3: Yes, and so I want to go back, piggyback to
Speaker 3: your point of if even if you cuss them out right.
Speaker 3: And so I have a lot of survivors, and I've
Speaker 3: worked with many of them, quite a few clients who
Speaker 3: have said, you know, I I contributed to this, so
Speaker 3: because I was yelling to you, and you know, I'm
Speaker 3: just as guilty as he is. And that's where we
Speaker 3: have to explain. No, you were surviving. Your tactic was
Speaker 3: a survival tactic and a war zone. Yes, because you
Speaker 3: felt threatened and for you, when your fighter flight system
Speaker 3: went off, you didn't feel safe, so you went to yelling.
Speaker 3: But you didn't cause the conflict. And that is a
Speaker 3: hard concept, but they do get it because I have
Speaker 3: survivors who are thriving. Now, I'm so grateful they are thriving,
Speaker 3: But when they come in, they somehow feel I'm responsible
Speaker 3: for this. No, you're not responsible. But what you said, Michelle,
Speaker 3: is what I hear a lot, is that, oh I
Speaker 3: threw something at him. We're both fighting. You didn't caused
Speaker 3: the conflict, though you didn't cause the chaos. You're surviving
Speaker 3: and you're utilizing tactics to survive.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I would tell anybody listening to whatever you have
Speaker 4: to do to survive. But I hope that while you
Speaker 4: are listening, if you're going through this right now, you
Speaker 4: don't deserve this. You definitely deserve better for you, because
Speaker 4: sometimes these situations don't turn out so great. You know,
Speaker 4: I just saw there are situations going on right now
Speaker 4: that I'm getting wind of. In my hometown. A young man,
Speaker 4: a lady went missing. Her family did a wellness check,
Speaker 4: they went in and found her dead of a gunshot wound.
Speaker 3: You know. So, I'm so glad that you're.
Speaker 4: Talking about survivors, doctor Brown, But there are cases where
Speaker 4: women couldn't get out in time.
Speaker 3: Yes, and leaving an abusive relationship is one of the
Speaker 3: most dealious times in that relationship. And just as you
Speaker 3: you and it was on the news in my area
Speaker 3: where a police officer. So it was a murder suicide.
Speaker 3: You know, he shot his wife and shot himself and
Speaker 3: people are saying, Oh, I can't believe this happened in
Speaker 3: my neighborhood. Yeah, and then they go back and trace,
Speaker 3: go through records. They had a history of DV calls
Speaker 3: into this particular home and so it was there. And
Speaker 3: so it is really a dangerous time when you try
Speaker 3: to leave, because you're now trying to take back your power.
Speaker 3: So that's why it's so important for anyone listening in
Speaker 3: this relationship, and it resonates with you that you seek
Speaker 3: counsel through a DV agency or an advocate to help
Speaker 3: you create a safety plan. It is not wise to
Speaker 3: just up and leave on your own. It's very dangerous.
Speaker 3: And you hear about these shootings that usually happen, the
Speaker 3: murders happening. They come to your job and they shoot
Speaker 3: you and shoot themselves. It happens in the morning, and
Speaker 3: the data shows that you know you're not gonna leave me,
Speaker 3: So if you leave me, I'm gonna kill you and
Speaker 3: myself to no one else can have you. So it's
Speaker 3: really important that if you're thinking of leaving, you know
Speaker 3: that you reach out to an agency. They can help
Speaker 3: you create a safety plan to do it and the
Speaker 3: most safest way possible in connecting with your support system.
Speaker 3: But this is not something that you do in your
Speaker 3: own You need help.
Speaker 4: And my prayer is that everybody listening, you've got to say, person,
Speaker 4: someone that what is someone you can call in, someone
Speaker 4: you can go to.
Speaker 3: Doctor Shanda. How can the church help? Hey? You know,
Speaker 3: with great minds, thinker like, because I was just getting
Speaker 3: ready to go back to when you said the faith community.
Speaker 3: First of all, we just need to believe survivors, right,
Speaker 3: we just need to believe them. We need to talk
Speaker 3: more about domestic violence. I also as a consultant, I
Speaker 3: help faith communities create domestic violence ministries. It is such
Speaker 3: a taboo subject and we need the faith community to
Speaker 3: just call it out. It's wrong. Let's not tell people
Speaker 3: to pray and stay. There is nowhere in the Bible
Speaker 3: where there is this conversation that it's okay to abuse
Speaker 3: your wife. And so what's happening Even in my own research,
Speaker 3: and that's what I studied For my research, Michelle I
Speaker 3: studied the role of faith and spirituality and leaving abusive
Speaker 3: relationships for black women. All of my research participants were
Speaker 3: told to stay. But the great thing about that, what
Speaker 3: we found was that the relationship with Christ was a
Speaker 3: foundation to say this is not right. So when you
Speaker 3: have a relationship with Christ, Christ will begin to show
Speaker 3: you this doesn't align with me. That's right. He will
Speaker 3: begin to show you. One of my participants says, in
Speaker 3: my prayer closet, he showed me some things about my husband,
Speaker 3: and I said, Okay, God, I see you. It's time
Speaker 3: to get out. But it's so important that we also
Speaker 3: recognize that abuse will use scriptures and will they will
Speaker 3: use your belief, syster your faith to say, oh, you're
Speaker 3: not going to Bible study to manipulate you. Well, God says,
Speaker 3: God hates divorce. You're not supposed to divorce me because
Speaker 3: God is going to be angry with you. I have
Speaker 3: so many work with so many women of faith that said,
Speaker 3: you know, God, I left, and now I feel like
Speaker 3: God is going to punish me. And He's punishing me
Speaker 3: because of this hard time going through this divorce. And
Speaker 3: then my views of God begin to change, and that
Speaker 3: becomes a spiritual trauma when I views about God and
Speaker 3: our perception of God changes. They're said, I left now,
Speaker 3: You've left to get free, but God has punishing me
Speaker 3: because this is hard. Dr Brown, And I tell them
Speaker 3: that you are capable of doing hard things and God
Speaker 3: has always been with you. It's your belief what you
Speaker 3: believe about God. Wow.
Speaker 4: And I know you guys as a doctor, as a
Speaker 4: counselor period you can't name names, you can't do any
Speaker 4: thing like that, which I understand. Do you have a
Speaker 4: story of hope from someone in your community.
Speaker 3: I guess actually you are the story of hope. I
Speaker 3: am the story of hope. And although I've never you know,
Speaker 3: I experienced a mess of vilence in college an undergrad. So,
Speaker 3: but my story of hope is that God allowed me
Speaker 3: to see that there's something better, that I am worthy
Speaker 3: of a healthy relationship. That I needed to heal those
Speaker 3: parts of me so I can be in something healthy
Speaker 3: that gloriesfides Him right. And so I had to have
Speaker 3: that hard conversation with myself that I became more helpful,
Speaker 3: more hopeful. Excuse me in my healing journey. When I
Speaker 3: began to work on parts of me. But one of
Speaker 3: the stories recently, a story of hope that a client
Speaker 3: shared that God reminded me of who I am in him.
Speaker 3: She said, he reminded me of who I am in him,
Speaker 3: and she said, I have to get free. And so
Speaker 3: it is her foundation, a foundation when i'm your relationship
Speaker 3: with Christ is the foundation that helps you. So we
Speaker 3: compliment each other, right, so we think about the faith community.
Speaker 3: We compliment each other. You have third business now, Jesus right,
Speaker 3: you can't do this alone. He provided counselors on this earth,
Speaker 3: just like physicians, to help in all areas of healing,
Speaker 3: holistic healing. So what can the church do. We can
Speaker 3: have domestic violence ministries. We can have purple Sunday when
Speaker 3: everybody your church will we're purple and on of domestic violence.
Speaker 3: You can have conversations, you can have training, You can
Speaker 3: train your leaders on domestic violence. I recently received the
Speaker 3: call that somebody came to the altar and said they
Speaker 3: were in abuse a relationship. How do I respond to that?
Speaker 3: People are coming to the all to what a lot
Speaker 3: of things that we have to be equipped. We need
Speaker 3: to be equipped. So you need to train your all
Speaker 3: to workers. You need to train your faith leaders on
Speaker 3: how to work with someone if they're reporting abuse or
Speaker 3: sexual abuse. So or if you're in the youth ministry,
Speaker 3: are they mandated reporters? So you need to train like
Speaker 3: you do for anything else. Yearly breaking experts could partner
Speaker 3: with your community, partner with agencies. Agencies are thrilled to
Speaker 3: get into faith community because it's so hard to get
Speaker 3: into a faith community. So when they have of faith
Speaker 3: community reach out, Oh sure, we're excited. Where do you
Speaker 3: want us to be? What son you wants to come with?
Speaker 3: Set up a table, pass out flyers, brochures. They are waiting.
Speaker 3: But we need leaders. We need the leaders to recognize
Speaker 3: the role you have and in interfuse against all women
Speaker 3: girls and they have such an important role. Why because
Speaker 3: women go to their faithfully before they come to a therapists.
Speaker 4: Yep, because that's the first place, especially if you spend
Speaker 4: a lot of time there. Especially I stopped going to therapy.
Speaker 4: Were for people who were like visibly ill, Like visibly
Speaker 4: you could look at somebody and be like, okay, they're
Speaker 4: mentally ill.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, a lot.
Speaker 4: Of people are like, ain't nothing wrong with me? Yeah,
Speaker 4: my mama, yell at me every day, or my daddy
Speaker 4: hits me or whatever. But ain't nothing wrong with me
Speaker 4: because a lot of people also feel it. Because I
Speaker 4: survived it, it's normal.
Speaker 3: It is not normal. Yeah, we grow up in chaos
Speaker 3: and we think that's normal.
Speaker 4: And how to recognize I could keep you all day,
Speaker 4: how to recognize.
Speaker 5: When something is abusive? So when it feels controlling.
Speaker 4: Right, what are other signs where somebody needs to recognize
Speaker 4: this is abuse?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there are a lot of red flags. I
Speaker 3: talked about, the manipulation, the isolation, controlling where you go.
Speaker 3: You know, your religious police. If you want to go
Speaker 3: to church, now you can't go to church. You got
Speaker 3: to stay here with me, right, Controlling your cell phone?
Speaker 3: You know, it's so many the power and control will.
Speaker 4: The root of abuse is power and control, right, got
Speaker 4: it right?
Speaker 3: And they do it in subtle ways to maintain that
Speaker 3: power and control over you. Does that make sense? That isolation,
Speaker 3: controlling your whereabouts, like blowing up your cell phone. If
Speaker 3: you're with your girlfriends and your data someone and they're
Speaker 3: blown at your cell phone. I mean like, really, you know,
Speaker 3: where's the respect here? I said, I'm going to my girlfriends.
Speaker 3: Why you got to blow up my phone like that
Speaker 3: and then they question you what were you doing or
Speaker 3: trying to sniff your clothes? Those are all red flags.
Speaker 4: Hush, all right, all right, okay, okay, now before we leave,
Speaker 4: what are.
Speaker 3: Some green flags? Yes, I was gonna talk about that,
Speaker 3: someone who respects boundaries?
Speaker 4: Okay, So just so y'all know, when you look at
Speaker 4: the trees or a healthy plant, it should be green. Yes,
Speaker 4: the rose ain't gonna be green, but the leaves around.
Speaker 3: It is green, right, plant? Mom? Like me, I'm noticing. Okay,
Speaker 3: what was green? Got a little brown on it? Right?
Speaker 3: So there are any reasons.
Speaker 4: So I'm so excited that you use green flags because
Speaker 4: to me, green symbolizes health, and it's the.
Speaker 3: Color for mental health. It's Mental Health Awareness month, right,
Speaker 3: So when we think about green, those indicators and listeners
Speaker 3: thinking about someone who respect your boundaries. Right. So if
Speaker 3: you're dating someone and then you say, well, I'm going
Speaker 3: up for girls night, We're going to a movie and
Speaker 3: I see when I get back, okay, or don't call
Speaker 3: me at the ten o'clock because I have a meeting
Speaker 3: at work and I need to get my rest. So
Speaker 3: a healthy flag would be okay, bull oh baby, I understand,
Speaker 3: and I talk to you in the morning, get your rest,
Speaker 3: respect your about They're not gonna keep calling you okay,
Speaker 3: so they respect your boundary, respect your boundaries. Someone who
Speaker 3: can manage conflict, well, they're not calling your names. It's
Speaker 3: so important to ask people in your data, So how
Speaker 3: do you manage conflict? Or they say how do you
Speaker 3: act when you're mad? Yes, because you get to see
Speaker 3: all of that in those first ninety days. You get
Speaker 3: to see how people manage conflict. Can you say we're
Speaker 3: agreed to disagree and move forward. I've worked with class
Speaker 3: would say I'm dating someone now and it feels different.
Speaker 3: What do you mean we have some conflict and we
Speaker 3: are agreed to disagree and we move forward. I was like,
Speaker 3: so you're not gonna call me your name. He was like, no,
Speaker 3: So you're going to have conflict in relationship. It's how
Speaker 3: you manage your emotions, how you manage the conflict. Someone
Speaker 3: who's respectful showing you respect that boundaries issue is real
Speaker 3: one of those things where if somebody's not respecting your boundaries,
Speaker 3: that's a huge red flag. But if they are respecting
Speaker 3: your boundaries, then that is a green flag. Respecting your boundary,
Speaker 3: being able to manage conflict, you know, allowing you to
Speaker 3: have time by yourself and maintain your individuality and not
Speaker 3: thinking they got to smuggle you on the time. It's
Speaker 3: also a healthy, healthy sign, so good you can be
Speaker 3: in a relationship and maintain your individuality and if you can't,
Speaker 3: that is a red flag that you got to be
Speaker 3: with somebody. Twenty four to seven is ma'am, doctor Brown.
Speaker 4: Is there a universal website or phone number where someone can.
Speaker 3: Call, Yes, the Domestic Violence National Hotline. You can call
Speaker 3: the eight hundred number. It is one eight hundred, I
Speaker 3: think it's seven nine to nine safe safe, And doing
Speaker 3: that website, the little Boss comes up. If you're not
Speaker 3: in a safe environment. It tells you how to exit out.
Speaker 3: But you can also call the crisis numbers well not
Speaker 3: a eight. And you know, it's so important to think
Speaker 3: about how abusers will track you. They use trackers and
Speaker 3: devices out here, so you know, tell somebody that you
Speaker 3: are in this situation, someone who can offer you a safe,
Speaker 3: non judgment and environment to talk about it and partner
Speaker 3: with you. And the crisis number as well can be
Speaker 3: that step. If you can't think of the eight hundred
Speaker 3: safe number, the eight hundred number.
Speaker 5: You've got it, doctor Brown, y'all.
Speaker 3: She gave us.
Speaker 4: Red flags, green flags, and of course the statistics that
Speaker 4: one in four women will experience some form of intimate
Speaker 4: partner violence, right instead of domestic violence. When was intimate
Speaker 4: partner introduced? I have never heard it until today?
Speaker 3: Oh really, so intimate partner violence if I can recall,
Speaker 3: think that maybe in the early seventies. You know, now
Speaker 3: I don't quote, but I'm real late, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you have this movement, and then
Speaker 3: now you have gender based violence. But it's an it's
Speaker 3: an umbrella term. So I use domestic violence because that
Speaker 3: is the term that in my community that we recognize,
Speaker 3: We recognize the mess to violence. The black community recognize
Speaker 3: the mess of violence, and you hear more of that
Speaker 3: versus intimate partner violence. An intimate partner violence is an
Speaker 3: umbrella term where you have various forms of violence. Falls
Speaker 3: under that umbrella sexual assault, sexual violence, domestic violence. So
Speaker 3: it's the umbrella term. But I specifically work with women
Speaker 3: who've experienced dimss of violence in some forms of sexual
Speaker 3: violence as well, and there are a lot of women
Speaker 3: who were sexually assaulted in their in the relationship as well.
Speaker 5: Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 4: It overlaps, it overlaps Doctor Brown. Last, but not least,
Speaker 4: on your social media, you give affirmations before we wrap
Speaker 4: it up.
Speaker 5: Can you give us an affirmation or two that we
Speaker 5: can take with us, or maybe someone could print it
Speaker 5: out and put it on their mirror.
Speaker 3: Yes, the first of I am worthy of a healthy
Speaker 3: relationship free of abuse. I am worthy of a relationship
Speaker 3: free of abuse. The second one that comes to mind,
Speaker 3: because leaving an abuse of relationship is a very hard thing.
Speaker 3: I also remind myself of this and my handling journey
Speaker 3: that I am capable of doing hard things. Back to Brown,
Speaker 3: You're amazing. You're amazing too, Sis. I appreciate the opportunity,
Speaker 3: very humble. We want people to get free, and they will.
Speaker 3: You all, do not give up. You are not alone.
Speaker 3: I'm right there with you.
Speaker 4: Come on so again, we will make sure that y'all
Speaker 4: get the numbers and the website on this episode of
Speaker 4: checking in, Doctor Brown.
Speaker 5: Whill you come back?
Speaker 3: I most certainly will, almost certainly will. Got a book
Speaker 3: that I'm writing specifically for black women, and and so
Speaker 3: I'll be releasing that title very soon definitely want to
Speaker 3: come back because there is something that black women need.
Speaker 3: I really want to speak to the black women.
Speaker 4: You got it all right, everybody, y'all, please please please
Speaker 4: just read out you got this, Yes, you got it
Speaker 4: all right, Doctor Brown.
Speaker 2: If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence
Speaker 2: intimate relationship abuse, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline
Speaker 2: at one eight hundred seven ninety nine seven two three three,
Speaker 2: or you can text the word start to eight eight
Speaker 2: seven eight eight the National Domestic Violence Hotline and domestic
Speaker 2: violence support is so important. I love that they say
Speaker 2: that everyone deserves relationships free from domestic violence. When you're ready,
Speaker 2: we're here to listen with confidential support twenty four seven,
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five days a year. I can
Speaker 2: imagine how scary it is. I was speaking with someone
Speaker 2: and they said they were telling me. They said, everybody
Speaker 2: thinks it's easy to leave a relationship that's filled with abuse,
Speaker 2: and they said, it's not easy, but this person was
Speaker 2: able to escape and live. I pray that you get
Speaker 2: the courage and the strength and boldness to say, you
Speaker 2: know what, my life is worth living and leave. This
Speaker 2: topic is so heavy, but it's so needed. All right,
Speaker 2: You're loved. You're loved over here at checking In.
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