Speaker 1: Two days before our last episode came out, Kelly pointed
Speaker 1: out there was a different case number on her littering
Speaker 1: case court docket, and the sentence of forty eight hours
Speaker 1: shock jail time and two years probation, which you heard
Speaker 1: her say never happened, was in fact also incorrect. What
Speaker 1: will Byron's legal team have to say about this?
Speaker 2: What are your concerns? I mean I could just hear
Speaker 2: it in your voice. Yeah, I mean I'm upset. I've
Speaker 2: been up all night.
Speaker 1: Is this alleged clerical error easily explained? Will it change
Speaker 1: how Kelly's credibility is now viewed? And what a fact,
Speaker 1: if any, will this have on Byron's legal case. I'm
Speaker 1: Leah Rothman. This is The Real Killer, Episode fifteen the docket.
Speaker 1: Right after Kelly and I speak that Tuesday night about
Speaker 1: this error on her court docket, I message Byron's attorney,
Speaker 1: Brian Russell to see if he can get the rest
Speaker 1: of the team together to talk the next morning. I
Speaker 1: don't share with Brian exactly why I'm asking for this
Speaker 1: last minute interview, but he comes back and says yes,
Speaker 1: he and the team will be available. So the next
Speaker 1: morning at eleven am my time, Brian, Nicole Gordon, Sean O'Brien,
Speaker 1: Quin O'Brien, and I all log into Zoom for what
Speaker 1: will be a very interesting conversation about Kelly's court docket
Speaker 1: and what can and cannot be proven?
Speaker 2: Can everyone hear me?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah yet.
Speaker 1: So thank you for getting together this quickly, because I
Speaker 1: reached out to Brian last night late last night asking
Speaker 1: for us to all get together. Kelly texted me yesterday
Speaker 1: and sent me screen grabs from her littering charge and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, great, and she was like, see,
Speaker 1: it's just a fine.
Speaker 2: I just had to pay a fine. And I was like, well,
Speaker 2: let me send you what I have.
Speaker 1: It says you did forty eight hours of shock, jail
Speaker 1: time and two years probation. Within minutes, she wrote me
Speaker 1: back angrily pointed out that there is another case number
Speaker 1: next to that sentence on the docket, and at first
Speaker 1: I didn't see it. She was like, that's not my
Speaker 1: case number, and I was like, I don't see what
Speaker 1: you're seeing and she's basically like, you dummy, it's right there.
Speaker 1: And so I looked up that case number and it's
Speaker 1: a guy named Brendan.
Speaker 2: I won't use his last name who in nineteen.
Speaker 1: Ninety nine got in trouble for allegedly passing some bad checks.
Speaker 1: It doesn't say anything about shock jail time, but under
Speaker 1: his sentence or program info, it says that he had
Speaker 1: unsupervised probation for seven hundred and thirty one days, So
Speaker 1: that's two years.
Speaker 4: In a day.
Speaker 1: Kelly, as you heard in the last episode, said I
Speaker 1: didn't go to jail. I didn't I wasn't on probation.
Speaker 1: So how do you explain this?
Speaker 4: Kelly's word is mud. Frankly, I don't care what Kelly
Speaker 4: has to say about anything.
Speaker 3: That's Brian Russell.
Speaker 4: Unless there's some independent corroboration. Her word alone doesn't do anything.
Speaker 4: The point is she's still at a minimum, let's say,
Speaker 4: if even if it was just a fine, right, she
Speaker 4: was still convicted of a Class amis demeanor, which is
Speaker 4: what the probation is irrelevant to that fact that both
Speaker 4: her and the prosecutor's office had a duty to tell
Speaker 4: Byron that she was convicted of a Class A misdemeanor
Speaker 4: during all of this, right during all of their investigation
Speaker 4: and everything like that. So the fact that sorry, not
Speaker 4: the fact her allegation that she didn't actually do any
Speaker 4: jail time, which I still believed to be false. That
Speaker 4: is irrelevant to this issue. That she was still convicted
Speaker 4: of a Class A misdemeanor, and that this all happened
Speaker 4: while she was quote unquote cooperating with the Jackson County
Speaker 4: prosecutor right she had an incentive. She had an active
Speaker 4: warrant out for her arrest. She admitted to you that
Speaker 4: she was picked up on that warrant by the Least
Speaker 4: Summit Police Department, which was that was new information for us,
Speaker 4: because we never knew where she was picked up on warrant.
Speaker 4: We just knew that she was picked up one more so,
Speaker 4: as far as what our response is to that is,
Speaker 4: it's great. That's great. Thank you for telling us and
Speaker 4: confirming that you were convicted of a Class A misdemeanor,
Speaker 4: that you lied about it to Byron's defense counsel when
Speaker 4: he asked if you had ever been convicted of a
Speaker 4: felony or misdemeanor in state or federal court, and that
Speaker 4: the prosecutor's office should have known about it, probably did
Speaker 4: know about it and didn't do their job and fulfill
Speaker 4: their duty to disclose that to Byron and his defense.
Speaker 3: Team, here's Sean O'Brien.
Speaker 5: You know, we had found the clerical error that they
Speaker 5: had linked some unrelated person's case to her case net.
Speaker 5: But that was a clerical error. Apparently doesn't negate any
Speaker 5: of the other stuff. That's not his shock time, that's
Speaker 5: not his judgment.
Speaker 4: We know it's a.
Speaker 1: Clerical error because I reached out to Christopher Class who's
Speaker 1: the sheriff of Cooper County, and he did confirm that
Speaker 1: she did two days of shock time. Okay, so Nicole,
Speaker 1: and glad you brought that up, because I have your
Speaker 1: email that you sent me and.
Speaker 2: He does not He does not do that. I'll read
Speaker 2: it to you, you said.
Speaker 1: The email says, we've received your Sunshine Law requests for
Speaker 1: information regarding detention records for Kelly Moffatt. Looking up information
Speaker 1: on Moffitt, it was found through court records that she
Speaker 1: was sentenced to two days jail time back on April third,
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, on a littering case. On a
Speaker 1: littering case, those records have since been destroyed in accordance
Speaker 1: with our retention schedule. We show no other incarceration for Moffitt,
Speaker 1: and our records. If you have any further questions, please
Speaker 1: feel free to contact the sheriff's office. So they're basically saying,
Speaker 1: we don't have any records that she was detained. We
Speaker 1: are looking at the court records, which seemed to be erroneous,
Speaker 1: and that's what they're referencing. They don't say that she
Speaker 1: spent any time there.
Speaker 5: Well, in other words, she owes Boone County two days
Speaker 5: of shock time. Is what that means. I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: we've looked at you know, three lawyers have looked this over.
Speaker 5: She owes Boone County two day shock time. And what
Speaker 5: the sheriff is saying, we don't have the jail records,
Speaker 5: but the court order to do them. She probably did them,
Speaker 5: and if she did them, their records are destroyed. That's
Speaker 5: what that means.
Speaker 4: Another component of this is Kelly claims that she was
Speaker 4: never arrested. Well, we have a record from the Missouri
Speaker 4: State Highway Patrol from April fifteenth of two thousand that
Speaker 4: says that she was arrested.
Speaker 5: This is the thing you have to understand about dealing
Speaker 5: with Kelly. She's the kind of liar who will tell
Speaker 5: a lie to cover a lie, to cover a lie,
Speaker 5: and she demonstrated that to you in your last episode
Speaker 5: that we listened. We heard that several times.
Speaker 1: And with all due respect, I just can't look at
Speaker 1: this and say definitively that she's tolling a lie.
Speaker 6: Then you should look at other records that are going
Speaker 6: to corroborate that date.
Speaker 1: Let me finish, because but you guys, where are they?
Speaker 1: Where are the records that corroborate that she actually went
Speaker 1: to jail or I mean, or was even sentenced to it.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is, if we look at this, she
Speaker 1: seemed very confused about the two days, forty eight hours
Speaker 1: of shock, jail time, and the two years probation. She
Speaker 1: also said when she was asked in her deposition, you
Speaker 1: know about if she had been in trouble with the law,
Speaker 1: she didn't really consider a littering charge in a fine
Speaker 1: that big of a deal. But what about pick a
Speaker 1: warrant and extra died it to a different county?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 6: Yeah, why would she be extradited to a different county
Speaker 6: if there wasn't a big deal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they issued a warrant for her arrest, a bench warrant,
Speaker 4: and she was arrested on that bench warrant. And here
Speaker 4: she is saying that to be extradited. For hold On
Speaker 4: to be extradited from Jackson County to Cooper County would
Speaker 4: have taken more than a day or two. She was
Speaker 4: in jail somewhat. Maybe she wasn't in jail in Cooper County.
Speaker 4: Maybe the judge in Cooper County said, oh, you said
Speaker 4: in the Jackson County jail, or in the least summit
Speaker 4: jail for two days while you were waiting to get
Speaker 4: extradited here to plead guilty to this fine, we're going
Speaker 4: to credit you for that two days. But we don't
Speaker 4: know this. But you don't know And why don't we
Speaker 4: know it, Leah, We don't know it because the Jackson
Speaker 4: County Prosecutor's office hid it. They did not disclose they
Speaker 4: had Kelly was a minor on this charge too, and
Speaker 4: so they knew about this. There's no reason they shouldn't
Speaker 4: have known about this, and they failed to disclose it.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't until twenty years later that we're finding it,
Speaker 4: and all the records have been destroyed, and so we're
Speaker 4: trying to piece together what happened as best we can.
Speaker 4: But as far as what Kelly has to say about it,
Speaker 4: or what her memory, says, it's funny that she you know,
Speaker 4: it's funny the things that she remembers so is vividly,
Speaker 4: and then the things she has no memory of or
Speaker 4: she's not sure about. And so, as far as for
Speaker 4: our purposes and for Byron's purposes, all that really matters
Speaker 4: is that she was convicted of a class amiss.
Speaker 5: To mean, and she responded to a question about it
Speaker 5: by saying, I've never even been in trouble with the police.
Speaker 5: She told you she was taken in custody on a warrant.
Speaker 4: Right, If that's not trouble with them, I think we
Speaker 4: would all remember getting arrested and picked up on a
Speaker 4: warrant and having to sit in jail and wait to
Speaker 4: get transferred to another county and to use her word.
Speaker 2: Extradited, I hear you.
Speaker 1: I mean, just so you know, I was up all
Speaker 1: night like this does not sit well with me. This
Speaker 1: is troubling to me. It's troubling because I didn't pick
Speaker 1: up on there being another case number as many times
Speaker 1: as I've looked at this docket.
Speaker 2: The fact that I didn't pick up on that, and.
Speaker 1: Also a large part of the case, or you know,
Speaker 1: a large part of the case is that Kelly is
Speaker 1: a drug addicted liar that was in bigger trouble and
Speaker 1: flipped on Byron in order to get out of the
Speaker 1: bigger trouble.
Speaker 2: We absolutely don't know that to be the fact.
Speaker 1: We don't know that she was actually sentenced to that
Speaker 1: this is actually her sentence. If that case number that's
Speaker 1: on there is wrong, we don't know that the sentence
Speaker 1: on there is wrong. Because stay with me for one second.
Speaker 1: On another page of these docket records, the page that
Speaker 1: talks about her sentence, stand by yeah, On the page
Speaker 1: that talks about charges and sentence. Under sentence, it says fine, fine,
Speaker 1: fourteen dollars and ninety five cents. So where is where
Speaker 1: is the sentence of forty eight hours shock, jail time
Speaker 1: in two years probation.
Speaker 2: I can hold it up.
Speaker 4: I can't not. Yeah, I'm looking at it on line
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 3: Here's Quinn O'Brien.
Speaker 6: She still lied, And I mean, we keep forgetting that
Speaker 6: a medical examiner has said that her version of events
Speaker 6: is totally impossible, that it's a Hollywood fiction. We're forgetting that.
Speaker 6: Don Rand and other gas station attendants told people at
Speaker 6: one time or another that they saw someone get out
Speaker 6: of a car and go use a payphone. We're forgetting that.
Speaker 6: Bob told the Fishers that he saw Anastasia later that
Speaker 6: night and tried to get her to get in the car.
Speaker 6: There's just so much out there that shows that Kelly's
Speaker 6: story is false. That you know, these these little things
Speaker 6: are I mean, at what point are we just? I mean,
Speaker 6: you're asking us to prove that there was a clerical
Speaker 6: error rather than you know, have Kelly prove that she
Speaker 6: wasn't in prison, Make her prove that she wasn't in jail.
Speaker 6: Have her prove that. Show ask her where she was,
Speaker 6: what she was doing, If she wasn't doing shocked time,
Speaker 6: what was she doing, where was she made?
Speaker 1: It's not up to her to prove it. It's up
Speaker 1: to you, guys to prove it. Right and again I
Speaker 1: say this with all due respect, but it's up to you.
Speaker 1: Guys are making the allegations. It's up to you to
Speaker 1: prove it, not to Kelly. I mean, Kelly's just I'm
Speaker 1: telling you what she said. This is what you guys
Speaker 1: have done, have gone after her credibility left and right.
Speaker 1: She says, I have not told a lie, and I
Speaker 1: can hear your laughter about to come in, but she says,
Speaker 1: I've not told a lie since I've come forward, and
Speaker 1: this is an example of the stuff that has been
Speaker 1: used against her to discredit her. And so it's not
Speaker 1: her job to prove this. It's your job if you
Speaker 1: make the allegation.
Speaker 6: Bia, It's not your job to give her a parachute
Speaker 6: out of these things either, Like when she started to
Speaker 6: say that if she and Byron weren't interrogated together, that
Speaker 6: she might have gone ahead and admitted or hum forward,
Speaker 6: not admitted. If she and Byron hadn't been interrogated together,
Speaker 6: then she would have talked about seeing the death. You
Speaker 6: stepped in and said, well, the records say that you
Speaker 6: weren't interrogated together, and she said, oh, oh, oh, you're right.
Speaker 6: So she gets a parachute out of her lies.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's a parachute.
Speaker 1: I think I was taking her to task, like I
Speaker 1: was pointing out that what she said was untrue. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a parachute I was giving her.
Speaker 6: I would have let her go. I would have asked
Speaker 6: her so in that interrogation together, what happened?
Speaker 1: Okay, but this isn't about me, right, now I've already
Speaker 1: I'm like admitting that I've messed up by not even
Speaker 1: recognizing that there was, you know, a different case number
Speaker 1: next to the sentence that differed from the case number
Speaker 1: on the upper left hand corner or the upper you know,
Speaker 1: on the.
Speaker 2: Top of the page.
Speaker 1: Like I should have should have I should have figured
Speaker 1: this out a long time ago and asked you guys
Speaker 1: a long time ago about this.
Speaker 6: So, yeah, we've known about it for a long time.
Speaker 1: Nobody said anything. Nobody, nobody has said anything. So everyone,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been moving forward as if she did
Speaker 1: time in jail and was on probation. I don't. Well, again,
Speaker 1: there's no proof of that right now, there is no
Speaker 1: proof of that. If you have proof, then please what
Speaker 1: sure we do we have proof of that? Where's the
Speaker 1: proof that she was in jail?
Speaker 4: Here, let me show you that she was in jail.
Speaker 4: She admitted to it. What are you talking about? She
Speaker 4: just admitted to it. She said she was arrested in
Speaker 4: least summit.
Speaker 2: But she didn't. I'm talking about getting sentenced.
Speaker 1: So she pled guilty and that her sentence is supposed
Speaker 1: to be forty eight hours in jail in two years probation.
Speaker 1: Where is the proof that that actually was the case.
Speaker 1: And here's another question, and I actually don't know this answer.
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you, if you're on probation, do you get a
Speaker 1: probation officer.
Speaker 4: We tried to find her probation officer and all of that.
Speaker 4: But here's the thing. She was a juvenile on this thing.
Speaker 4: So those are all closed records. We can't get it
Speaker 4: that until we file the havienes.
Speaker 2: But you don't know that they're as a probation officer.
Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, I don't know that she had a probation officer.
Speaker 4: And the other thing that we have looked into was
Speaker 4: she was a Kansas resident at the time, but on
Speaker 4: Missouri probation. So there's a weird It's like, okay, well,
Speaker 4: would she have gotten a Kansas probation officer? You know,
Speaker 4: would that have been put over there to do that?
Speaker 4: And you know, we still believe that she was put
Speaker 4: on probation, which would totally make sense because when all
Speaker 4: of this happens, she's supposed to be quote unquote cooperating
Speaker 4: with the Jackson County Prosecutor's office. Right in December of
Speaker 4: two thousand, they put this tape recorder in the Moffit residence.
Speaker 4: Right months go by, no phone calls with Byron, no
Speaker 4: no reported attempts of phone calls with Byron. Kelly seems
Speaker 4: to disappear because there's literally no reports. Then she gets
Speaker 4: picked up on this warrant, pleads guilty. We still believe,
Speaker 4: sentenced to two days shock time with probation. But let's
Speaker 4: say she's not. Let's say she's just convicted of a
Speaker 4: Class A misdemeanor. The reason it makes sense for her
Speaker 4: to be sentenced to two years probation is so the
Speaker 4: prosecutors have control over her during the pendency of the
Speaker 4: rest of their investigation and prosecution into Byron. Right so,
Speaker 4: and then it's two months after this guilty plead that
Speaker 4: she finally gets Byron on the phone. But I wanted
Speaker 4: to point out too, and I tried to share my screen,
Speaker 4: but I can't. I can email you this document I
Speaker 4: have because we took screenshots of this back when we
Speaker 4: found it, and I'm looking at the screen shot of
Speaker 4: it now, not the screenshot. I'm looking at the screen
Speaker 4: on case net right now, and it looks like it
Speaker 4: has been altered from when we first found it and
Speaker 4: gathered it because it used to say on April third,
Speaker 4: two thousand and one, judgment entered SEES which stands for
Speaker 4: suspended execution of sentence thirty days, can secut with case number,
Speaker 4: consecutive with case number, you know, and then that's the
Speaker 4: case number we're talking about, which is related to somebody
Speaker 4: different forty eight hours shot time probation two years right now,
Speaker 4: and then under that entry it says guiltyply. Now on
Speaker 4: live on case Net it just says April third, two
Speaker 4: thousand and one, guiltyply. It doesn't have judgment entered on
Speaker 4: that docket report like it used to. So something somebody
Speaker 4: got on there and changed something and I don't know
Speaker 4: why that happened, and I don't know who did that,
Speaker 4: but that's new. That is also new information for us.
Speaker 3: This is true. There are two dockets.
Speaker 1: The one Cooper County sent me on April sixteenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. In the middle of the page, under sentence
Speaker 1: it says fine. Then under total case fine imposed it
Speaker 1: says fourteen dollars and ninety five cents. In the docket
Speaker 1: Byron's legal team sent me, which they pulled on October two,
Speaker 1: twelfth twenty twenty one. In the middle of the page,
Speaker 1: it says Kelly was sentenced to a fine of fourteen
Speaker 1: dollars and ninety five cents, just like the one Cooper
Speaker 1: County sent me, but lowered down on that page, in
Speaker 1: the itemized list of events that happened in the case
Speaker 1: on April third, two thousand and one, there is that
Speaker 1: other person's case number, and next to it is the
Speaker 1: sentence of forty eight hours shock jail time and two
Speaker 1: years probation.
Speaker 3: So what the hell which sentence is the real one?
Speaker 1: When was the forty eight hours shock jail time two
Speaker 1: years probation erased from the docket? It had to have
Speaker 1: been some time between October of twenty twenty one and
Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Who did it and why? By the way, I.
Speaker 1: Had asked Byron's legal team about these two different court
Speaker 1: dockets before, because one had the sentence forty eight hours
Speaker 1: shock jail time and two years probation and the other
Speaker 1: one didn't have it. They said it was because there
Speaker 1: was a difference between what information a lawyer can access
Speaker 1: on case net, Missouri's legal case database and what the
Speaker 1: general public can. Not sure if that's what happened or
Speaker 1: if it's something else. In an attempt to get some
Speaker 1: clarity on Kelly's two different court dockets and whether or
Speaker 1: not she was ever sentenced to forty eight hours in
Speaker 1: jail and two years probation, I email the Jackson County
Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office to see if they will answer my questions
Speaker 1: at least about this. Remember, months ago, I was told
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't be appropriate for Prosecutor Teresa Crayon to
Speaker 1: speak until all litigation in this case is complete. When
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office responds, they say the same thing, They
Speaker 1: can't comment until all litigation is complete on this matter
Speaker 1: Nicole again, and the state was able to find Byron's
Speaker 1: records in a different county, They did a background check
Speaker 1: on him, brought it to trial. Why didn't you need
Speaker 1: to tell me they didn't do that with Kelly and
Speaker 1: brought it to trial. And so there is the presumption
Speaker 1: of this wasn't disclosed and.
Speaker 2: Why I mean, and I think that we're.
Speaker 1: Allowed to hypothesize of all the reasons that someone would
Speaker 1: in Kelly's position would implicate.
Speaker 4: Somebody else in a murder.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're allowed to do that, but Brian's right.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is is that they didn't
Speaker 1: disclose it and they had a duty to right.
Speaker 4: And we have court records that say that she was
Speaker 4: on shot time, two days of shot time with a
Speaker 4: thirty day backup in two years probation. That's what the
Speaker 4: records we have say. She might say that that's not
Speaker 4: true and that's not what happened, and that's fine, you
Speaker 4: know what. That's what this process is for. And maybe
Speaker 4: we find out that she wasn't sentenced to two days
Speaker 4: of shock time, but at a minimum, she was still
Speaker 4: convicted of a class A mystery, right, and that's what
Speaker 4: they had a duty to disclose.
Speaker 2: So I think there are two issues, right.
Speaker 1: I think it's I mean, you have been putting forth
Speaker 1: the theory that she got into this bigger trouble, and
Speaker 1: you know, Kelly is a drug addicted liar and she,
Speaker 1: you know, was in this bigger trouble and that's why
Speaker 1: she flipped and worked with prosecutors. That doesn't seem as
Speaker 1: plausible as it did before.
Speaker 6: I think that's another statement of the theory though, And
Speaker 6: can I can I correct the theory really quick that
Speaker 6: she Our theory is that this case connected her to
Speaker 6: the prosecution, that she could have been in much more
Speaker 6: trouble if she hadn't worked with prosecutors to get out
Speaker 6: of it.
Speaker 1: Let's go back for one second and look at the timeline.
Speaker 1: Kelly was arrested in April of two thousand on this
Speaker 1: littering charge. She didn't up for her arraignment in June
Speaker 1: of two thousand, That's when the warrant was issued three
Speaker 1: months later in September of two thousand. Kelly was basically
Speaker 1: made to come forward when her drug counselor went to
Speaker 1: the authorities. So when was Kelly allegedly incentivized to work
Speaker 1: with prosecutors. Was it between when she got the littering
Speaker 1: charge and when she came forward, so between April and September?
Speaker 1: Or was it between when she came forward and when
Speaker 1: she was picked up on the warrant, so between September
Speaker 1: and the following April. I went back and found a
Speaker 1: report Kilgore wrote on September twentieth, two thousand, the day
Speaker 1: after Kelly came forward. Kilgore wrote quote, Apparently Ms Moffatt
Speaker 1: offered to tape record a conversation with Byron Case and
Speaker 1: try to get him to admit to the shooting. Mister
Speaker 1: Beard and Ms McGowan were in favor of attempting the recording,
Speaker 1: So it seems it was Kelly's idea to try and
Speaker 1: record Byron confessing, and this happened around the time she
Speaker 1: came forward. What would be the point in a quid
Speaker 1: pro quo scenario with prosecutors. Was it to point the
Speaker 1: finger at Byron because it seems she had already done that,
Speaker 1: or was it to finally get Byron on the phone
Speaker 1: and again, remember it was her idea to do that.
Speaker 6: Back to Quinn, I still don't know if that's the
Speaker 6: case because a lot of those records are going to
Speaker 6: be confidential because she's a juvenile, and some of these
Speaker 6: records are you going to be things that we can't
Speaker 6: get until the behavior is proceeding. But she was on
Speaker 6: the prosecution's radar. She's an addict, and this is the
Speaker 6: case that you know, we know about. We're not saying
Speaker 6: that she did this to how to put this? Somebody
Speaker 6: helped me out, your dad, you know what I want?
Speaker 5: Yeah. The point is when somebody is addicted, the prospect
Speaker 5: of one night in jail is terrifying because that means
Speaker 5: withdrawal that means cold Turkey, and so that's incentive for
Speaker 5: her to cooperate with the police. But why she decided
Speaker 5: to implicate Byron is a much much different, more complex
Speaker 5: thing than what you've described. I think that she lied
Speaker 5: multiple times to multiple people about why she's an addict,
Speaker 5: why she has this drug problem. She says, because I
Speaker 5: saw Anastasia murdered, and then she says, because I saw
Speaker 5: Justin murder Anastasia, and then she changes that to Byron.
Speaker 5: So she tells this lie because it's convenient at the
Speaker 5: moment at the time. And then when she finally tells
Speaker 5: a therapist and a therapist says, you go to the
Speaker 5: police or I will. Now suddenly the lie is locked in,
Speaker 5: and she doesn't have a choice but to go through
Speaker 5: with the lie that she's been telling. And so if
Speaker 5: she's under stress, it's a stress of being locked into
Speaker 5: a lie that she now can't get out of. And
Speaker 5: so she ends up going to a lawyer, going to
Speaker 5: the prosecution. And so why the delay of months and
Speaker 5: months and months between her cooperation decision and getting Byron
Speaker 5: on the phone to you know, try to trap him
Speaker 5: into saying something incriminating.
Speaker 1: That's not how Kelly sees it. Kelly mentioned in the
Speaker 1: last episode that she had been accused of stalking Byron.
Speaker 1: Kelly said, well, the police were the ones who gave
Speaker 1: her his number, So maybe Kelly had tried calling Byron
Speaker 1: before that June fifth call back to Sean.
Speaker 5: She doesn't want to do it, but I think this
Speaker 5: case and the prospect of going to jail because she
Speaker 5: has that warrant pending, I think that is what you know,
Speaker 5: motivated her finally to follow through with the phone call
Speaker 5: to Byron. And now you know she's in over her head.
Speaker 5: She can't back out of this. She can't. There's no
Speaker 5: way to do it.
Speaker 4: Another thing to point out Leah is that in that
Speaker 4: report that Sergeant Kilgore wrote from December of two thousand,
Speaker 4: when he installs the tape recorder, the last thing he
Speaker 4: writes is assistant prosecutor Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Amy McGowan told
Speaker 4: me to give her phone number and her pager number,
Speaker 4: and so that so Kelly has the prosecutor, the Jackson
Speaker 4: County Prosecutor, one of the top deputies in Jackson County
Speaker 4: prosecutor's contact info and then she gets picked up in
Speaker 4: Jackson County on this warrant. Who is she going to
Speaker 4: maybe call to get some help out of that situation?
Speaker 4: You know, we believe that there's it's very plausible that
Speaker 4: she called Amy McGowan and said, I'm in trouble and
Speaker 4: I need help, and they said, okay, well we can
Speaker 4: help you with this. But here's what you're going to
Speaker 4: need to start playing ballbat her with us, right.
Speaker 2: But but let me just let me jump in real quick.
Speaker 1: We don't know that to be true, and now we
Speaker 1: don't know. We know one there's another thing we don't
Speaker 1: know to be true, and that's that she actually was
Speaker 1: sentenced to forty eight hours of shockjail time in two
Speaker 1: years probation.
Speaker 4: That is, we don't know. We don't know what that is.
Speaker 4: So we don't know that.
Speaker 2: We don't actually know that there was.
Speaker 4: Any bigger's We don't have to prove that, I know, but.
Speaker 1: We but we've put that forth like we have said
Speaker 1: that in the podcast. You guys have talked about that
Speaker 1: that you you allege that there was some bigger trouble
Speaker 1: that she was in that she had to get out of.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that is have been I
Speaker 1: don't think that's been proven. I don't think that even
Speaker 1: that her sentence, that sentence of forty eight hours of
Speaker 1: shockjail time in two years probation has been proven. And
Speaker 1: the thing I want to say in my email to
Speaker 1: the Prosecutor's office, I also ask about this allegation that
Speaker 1: after Kelly was picked up on the warrant, she called
Speaker 1: Amy McGowan, who helped her in exchange for Kelly getting
Speaker 1: Byron on the phone in a recorded confession.
Speaker 3: But here's another question.
Speaker 1: If Amy McGowan intervened, and that is a mighty big if,
Speaker 1: why would that forty eight hours of shot, jail time
Speaker 1: and two years probation ever be entered into the docket.
Speaker 1: If something sneaky and nefarius went on, one would imagine
Speaker 1: there would be enormous attention given to covering all tracks.
Speaker 3: Okay, back to our interview, and then one.
Speaker 1: Other thing I want to say, Sean, like, yes, Kelly
Speaker 1: came forward and first said to her dad Byron, then
Speaker 1: to the counselor said justin. It was her mom who
Speaker 1: actually said no, no, no, Kelly told your dad. It
Speaker 1: was Byron. It was her mom who called her out
Speaker 1: and said, no, you tell her you know this is
Speaker 1: what you told your dad. So yes, she flip flops,
Speaker 1: but her mom makes her change her story back to Byron.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like she did it on her own. Okay, Sorry,
Speaker 2: what were you going to say.
Speaker 4: Brian in response to that, Well, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously the lies of Kelly's lies. We all have different theories, right.
Speaker 4: I think that she was just a troubled kid trying
Speaker 4: to get either back in with her parents and that's
Speaker 4: what started this ball rolling, or that this was just
Speaker 4: a lie that spun out of control.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: She her story, everything she says, there's inconsistencies, not just
Speaker 4: across statements after she comes forward, but even within single
Speaker 4: interviews there's inconsistencies. Even with what she was saying to you.
Speaker 4: There's inconsistencies right all this time. Oh, she just wanted
Speaker 4: to come forward. If only somebody had just been mean
Speaker 4: to me in one of these interviews, I would have
Speaker 4: told you truth. But then she says I wanted to
Speaker 4: come forward. But that's not even then she didn't come forward.
Speaker 4: They seemed to after she's in rehab, detoxing, and who knows,
Speaker 4: we don't even know how long she was in rehab
Speaker 4: before this whole maggy thing allegedly happened. But she says that, well,
Speaker 4: I tried to say that it was justin or that
Speaker 4: it was some other thing, and then her mom drags
Speaker 4: out another lie out of her. I don't know it
Speaker 4: just none of it makes sense. Did she want to
Speaker 4: come forward or did she not come because at no
Speaker 4: point in this does she do anything voluntarily.
Speaker 6: No, And I still think that to call her, I mean,
Speaker 6: she said that we characterized her as a drug kingpin,
Speaker 6: and I don't recall ever even saying anything like that.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's that's not the theory that she was
Speaker 6: in trouble for something bigger. We've known for a long
Speaker 6: time that it was a littering charge, and that's all
Speaker 6: it has to be, is a littering charge. She doesn't
Speaker 6: have to have, you know, drugs on her or be
Speaker 6: a And that's not our theory. Our theory is that
Speaker 6: she continues to use and she's connected to the prosecution.
Speaker 6: Now she's on probation and she gets arrested, and I
Speaker 6: don't believe that she was arrested just for having a
Speaker 6: headlight out. I don't believe that. I would love to
Speaker 6: get those records and we're actually trying to.
Speaker 4: Tell where's her, where's her proof that she was that
Speaker 4: she was arrested for a broken headline?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't. I don't believe that for a second.
Speaker 6: I think that she's on probation and she gets arrested
Speaker 6: for drugs and she realizes that she's going to have
Speaker 6: to do backup time, and then the prosecutor steps in
Speaker 6: to help her out. I still think that that's the case,
Speaker 6: and I have nothing, except for killing off its word
Speaker 6: that that's not the case.
Speaker 2: I mean, hold on one second.
Speaker 1: Sorry to trumpt you, but to be fair, Quinn, you
Speaker 1: guys did say that you believed that she might have
Speaker 1: been involved in some bigger drug thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's in the podcast. We did talk about that, so.
Speaker 6: You know we speculated that it could have been the case.
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm just saying you said, that's not what
Speaker 2: we all.
Speaker 4: What we ever thought, and it might have been related
Speaker 4: to drugs, but not or something.
Speaker 6: When I say bigger drug thing, that's not I mean,
Speaker 6: she used the word getting caught. Sorry, I know she.
Speaker 2: Used you she used the working pin. You've never used
Speaker 2: the word kingpin.
Speaker 1: But you did allege that she was involved or you
Speaker 1: speculated that she might have been involved in some bigger
Speaker 1: drug issue.
Speaker 2: She used the word kingpin. You've never used that word,
Speaker 2: but that sort of thing, I mean a person.
Speaker 4: And as far as our quote, our theory quote that
Speaker 4: she's was a drug addict and a compulsive liar, that
Speaker 4: wasn't our theory. That comes straight out of her mom's mouth.
Speaker 1: I think what Brian is referring to are a couple
Speaker 1: of things Kelly's mom, Deborah Moffatt, has said in the past.
Speaker 1: The first was in a report written by Sergeant Kilgore
Speaker 1: regarding Kelly coming forward. Kilgore wrote, quote, Miss Moffatt stated
Speaker 1: to me that this whole situation has ruined Kelly's life
Speaker 1: by her not being able to deal with the situation.
Speaker 1: Miss Moffittt stated to me that last spring Kelly called
Speaker 1: her on the telephone at four hundred hours crying. Kelly
Speaker 1: stated to Miss Moffittt, I saw Anastasia murdered. From that
Speaker 1: point on, according to Miss Moffatt, they have been chipping
Speaker 1: away on her, trying to get the whole story. I
Speaker 1: asked again when Kelly first told her this, and Miss
Speaker 1: Moffett stated that Kelly was lying to them a lot
Speaker 1: back then, and then said I better shut up then.
Speaker 1: On the stand, during cross examination, Deborah was asked if
Speaker 1: Kelly would mislead her about her drug use and other topics.
Speaker 1: Deborah said, in part quote, well, she was a drug addict.
Speaker 1: She was lying to me because she needed money. She
Speaker 1: wanted to come back home. I had a younger daughter
Speaker 1: at home. She knew if she came back home she
Speaker 1: could use drugs. I mean that's what a drug addict does.
Speaker 1: She couldn't really tell me the truth about any of
Speaker 1: her activity. Okay, back to Brian, you know.
Speaker 4: That's not us saying that she says that she was
Speaker 4: a compulsive liar and a drug addict. And the phone
Speaker 4: call that she has with Byron, she says, nobody's gonna
Speaker 4: believe me because I'm a crackhead, I'm a poke head,
Speaker 4: and I'm an alcoholic. You know. I mean, that's not us,
Speaker 4: that's her.
Speaker 2: I hear you.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: This has thrown me for a bit of a loop.
Speaker 2: I'm just being very honest with you.
Speaker 4: What are your concerns?
Speaker 2: I mean I could just hear in your voice. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I'm upset.
Speaker 1: I've been up all night and like really concerned about this, because,
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm not thrilled with myself for not
Speaker 1: catching that. I think that for somebody who says is
Speaker 1: that they have told the truth and have been fighting
Speaker 1: a credibility issue, and this has been one of the
Speaker 1: things used against them to say, look, they're lying. And
Speaker 1: she very quickly pointed out something that could potentially prove
Speaker 1: that she's told the truth, that she really didn't have
Speaker 1: this sentence. She didn't spend time in jail for this,
Speaker 1: She wasn't on probation. That is worrisome to me, and
Speaker 1: I understand that, like the other issue is the Brady violations,
Speaker 1: that the prosecutors didn't hand this over.
Speaker 2: I do understand. I understand that.
Speaker 1: I guess I understand that you're saying that that's still
Speaker 1: that's doesn't change.
Speaker 5: Let me clarify the leg Stop you guys, stop, stop, stop,
Speaker 5: just answer answer this. Let me clarify the legal issue
Speaker 5: for you. The prosecutor is obliged to disclose if a
Speaker 5: witness they're using has any criminal convictions for felonies or misdemeanors.
Speaker 5: They were asked and they said none. And then in
Speaker 5: a deposition, Kelly Moffatt was asked, do you have any
Speaker 5: felonies or misdemeanor convictions, and she said, I've never even
Speaker 5: been in trouble with the police, So that's a lie.
Speaker 5: And so at the time of trial, the defense lawyer
Speaker 5: was entitled to prove that she had been arrested and charged,
Speaker 5: and frankly, under the circumstances, I think this was a
Speaker 5: minor in possession charge that got dropped down to a
Speaker 5: littering charge on a misdemeanor, because that's what the facts show,
Speaker 5: and so that's the record. And then we have a
Speaker 5: judgment that shows that she's facing a possibility of arrest
Speaker 5: and there's a warrant. There's an actual warrant connected to
Speaker 5: this case. That warrant is pending during the pendency of
Speaker 5: Byron's charges. That gives her in incentive. And it doesn't
Speaker 5: matter that the prosecutor played on it or used it.
Speaker 5: What matters is that that fact out there is an
Speaker 5: incentive for her to color her story, to cooperate with
Speaker 5: the police, to do what's necessary to avoid being taken
Speaker 5: into custody and go go cold turkey in a jail cell.
Speaker 5: It's not that it's a serious charge, it's that it's
Speaker 5: a charge that could result in her going to jail,
Speaker 5: But it's also a lie she told in a deposition
Speaker 5: and something the defense was entitled to use. But in
Speaker 5: terms of the overall story here, it's not the biggest
Speaker 5: thing that shows she's lying. It is a thing that
Speaker 5: could have been used, not just the conviction itself, but
Speaker 5: the fact that she lied about ever being in trouble
Speaker 5: with the police. So that's where it all fits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like the warrant was issued for her
Speaker 1: because she didn't show up to the arraignment.
Speaker 2: So that's why the warrant was.
Speaker 5: Issued, right, right, because the charge was pending, right, So
Speaker 5: that's number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, we don't know that there was a bigger
Speaker 1: charge or anything like possession. We don't know that to
Speaker 1: be the case, right, And my whole thing is like,
Speaker 1: now that we've seen this clerical error on the docket,
Speaker 1: what some of what was used to say Kelly might
Speaker 1: have worked with prosecutors to get out of something bigger,
Speaker 1: something that would have resulted in two years probation, forty
Speaker 1: eight hours shot jail time. We has been is not proven,
Speaker 1: has not been proven. We don't know that to be
Speaker 1: the case. So I get that the Brady violations are
Speaker 1: still there. I'm not taking anything away from that, but
Speaker 1: something that has been used to, you know, discredit her
Speaker 1: and make it seem like she and allude to the
Speaker 1: fact that she might have worked with prosecutors. I don't
Speaker 1: think that there there's I don't think the facts are
Speaker 1: there right now. I cannot we cannot prove that she
Speaker 1: was actually sentenced to that time and that probation. If
Speaker 1: you can find something that actually proves that that happened,
Speaker 1: then that's something different. But right now, with that clerical error,
Speaker 1: the whole that whole thing could be a clerical error
Speaker 1: because it says under other pages the only sentence was
Speaker 1: the fine.
Speaker 4: I would just like to.
Speaker 1: Say that the sheriff looked at the same court records
Speaker 1: that we're all looking at and came up with the
Speaker 1: same conclusion that that's what she was sentenced to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if the court record, the court docket is is erroneous,
Speaker 1: if it's false and they're reading he was reading the
Speaker 1: same or she was reading the same thing that we're
Speaker 1: reading from right and assuming the same thing, and he
Speaker 1: came to the same conclusion that that case was not
Speaker 1: connected with Kelly's case.
Speaker 2: But he didn't say that in that email.
Speaker 1: Now he says that it looks like she was sentenced
Speaker 1: to show time and probation say anything about another case. Right,
Speaker 1: he's saying, I read the court record that you read,
Speaker 1: and this is the conclusion.
Speaker 2: I came up with. Right, But we can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not proof of anything because we're as
Speaker 1: we're understanding, like there are falsehoods. There's like you know,
Speaker 1: there are clerical errors on them. I know that that's
Speaker 1: what you want in order to feel good about this,
Speaker 1: because I get as a journalist, you want to you
Speaker 1: want the proof before you start accusing people or giving
Speaker 1: people a platform to do damage to some I understand
Speaker 1: where you're coming from.
Speaker 4: I do, I get it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I am.
Speaker 1: Just trying to be fair to both sides, and when
Speaker 1: something is brought to me, I have to go to
Speaker 1: the other side and ask about it.
Speaker 2: I mean I was stunned last night. I mean stunned.
Speaker 1: And you know, does she bring evidence of anything out?
Speaker 1: Like all the evidence that she has to prove her innocence, we.
Speaker 2: Would love to see.
Speaker 1: So if there's anything else that she has, I have
Speaker 1: searched this file inside it now and I have looked
Speaker 1: for things that can corroborate her story, and so if
Speaker 1: there's anything else, we'd love to know about it. She
Speaker 1: just screen grabbed the sentence for me and it said,
Speaker 1: you know, fourteen dollars and ninety five cents.
Speaker 4: And that's all that.
Speaker 1: That's the only evidence that she's offered you to corroborate
Speaker 1: any of her I mean, is there Yeah, because she
Speaker 1: says there's nothing else to prove, that's what she I means,
Speaker 1: She's like, I didn't do the time. That wasn't my sentence. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about her story in general. I mean,
Speaker 1: it seems like she's really honed in on this.
Speaker 2: No, this is this has been from.
Speaker 1: Yesterday, last night to this morning, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what we're focused on, what I'm focused on
Speaker 1: right now. And yes there are questions about other things
Speaker 1: for sure, but this is this is the focus for
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 5: Well, it's what do you compare with I've never been
Speaker 5: in trouble with the police. You know, we can show
Speaker 5: that to a lie.
Speaker 2: I hear you, Sean, I really do.
Speaker 1: I also can understand and this is where maybe the
Speaker 1: Libra and me can get me in trouble sometimes because
Speaker 1: I can see side so very much. But I can
Speaker 1: see a young kid who's scared and is like, doesn't
Speaker 1: think a littering charge and a fine of fourteen dollars
Speaker 1: and ninety five cents is really getting in trouble with police.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she was surrounded by a lot of people
Speaker 1: in that drug world who were getting in real trouble
Speaker 1: with the police, and so she didn't actually consider it.
Speaker 4: So she said it go ahead. Sorry, I apologize, No,
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 1: Just gonna say, like what she said in her deposition,
Speaker 1: I mean, was she hiding something?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I kind of understand her being like, it wasn't that
Speaker 1: big of a deal. I paid less than fifteen bucks
Speaker 1: to get out of it. If anything, to your point,
Speaker 1: it's the prosecutors who should have turned that over.
Speaker 4: Her description to you did not sound like it wasn't
Speaker 4: that big of a deal, she says. She vividly remembers
Speaker 4: now getting arrested by the Least Summit Police Department and
Speaker 4: extradited to Cooper County. And so you're saying that.
Speaker 2: You can, but she doesn't remember going to jail or
Speaker 2: being on probation.
Speaker 4: But she would have gone to jail if she tested
Speaker 4: and got extradited to Cooper County and by.
Speaker 1: Going to jail and being sentenced to jail or two
Speaker 1: different things.
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, but not with what you're talking about. You're
Speaker 4: saying you believe what Kelly's saying that she would. Well,
Speaker 4: I totally slipped my mind when I'm in a deposition
Speaker 4: on a murder case when Byron's defense lawyer says, have
Speaker 4: you ever been convicted of a class of a misdemeanor
Speaker 4: or felony in state or federal court? And it just
Speaker 4: slips her mind because in her mind this was just
Speaker 4: some little ticket. No, it could not have been some
Speaker 4: little ticket in her mind at that time based on
Speaker 4: what she told you, she got picked up on a
Speaker 4: warrant and got transferred from Jackson County to two hours
Speaker 4: away to Cooper County to be arraigned. Right, And we
Speaker 4: have no idea, and she hasn't said yet. I'm sure
Speaker 4: she'll come up with a great story on what happened
Speaker 4: in between getting ac by the least Summit Police Department
Speaker 4: and showing up in court in Cooper County to plead guilty.
Speaker 4: But there's simply no way that that would not have
Speaker 4: been a big deal to her.
Speaker 6: This is handcuff She's being transported in a police vehicle
Speaker 6: in handcuffs, if that's not being in trouble with the police.
Speaker 4: But I mean, I guess what else can I don't
Speaker 4: know what else we could say about that. That's you know,
Speaker 4: it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think she said she spent a little
Speaker 1: bit of time there until she was bailed out or whatever.
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, I mean, I there's just I
Speaker 1: needed to ask you about it. If you can find
Speaker 1: anything that says that she actually was on probation or
Speaker 1: you know, spent forty eight hours in jail, obviously I
Speaker 1: would love to see it. As of right now, I
Speaker 1: can't say that I believe that that happened.
Speaker 2: And I think that this clerical error.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we know that, but there's a clerical error.
Speaker 4: We don't know the extent of it. And it's our
Speaker 4: job to assume that. When there's facts that could go
Speaker 4: either way, we have to look at them and what
Speaker 4: helps our client, what's in the best interests of our client.
Speaker 4: This clerical error has somebody else's case number on there,
Speaker 4: but it says consecutive with that case number, so in
Speaker 4: our mind and I'm reading this, it's what I just
Speaker 4: sent you. I just emailed it to you. I thought
Speaker 4: you would have already had it, and maybe you do.
Speaker 4: But that nothing about this rules out that she still
Speaker 4: got thirty days a suspended execution, a suspended execution of
Speaker 4: thirty days with two days shock time in two years probation.
Speaker 4: We still have evidence of that. It's what I just
Speaker 4: sent you. Maybe this other person also got that same
Speaker 4: sentence for a different class a misdemeanor, but that does
Speaker 4: not disprove that Kelly MafA did it. And even if
Speaker 4: it did again, that's not the central issue. The central
Speaker 4: issue is she was convicted of a misdemeanor, and she
Speaker 4: lied about it, and the prosecutor's office failed to disclose.
Speaker 5: It, and we couldn't find a relationship between the two cases,
Speaker 5: and so, you know, looking at it when we drilled
Speaker 5: down into it, it's a mistake by one number in
Speaker 5: that notation that this sentence is consecutive to that other sentence.
Speaker 5: The other sentence belongs to somebody else, but this sentence
Speaker 5: is Kelly's.
Speaker 1: For the record, the two case numbers are not even
Speaker 1: remotely alike. Each are twelve digits, which include both letters
Speaker 1: and numbers, but These two are not off by a
Speaker 1: digit or two. They are radically different. It seems the
Speaker 1: only thing Kelly and this Brendan person have in common
Speaker 1: is that two separate events happen in their cases on
Speaker 1: the same day. April third, two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: Did you ever look at Angie's.
Speaker 1: Angie Giannino is the friend Kelly was with when they
Speaker 1: were pulled over in Cooper County. You heard from Angie
Speaker 1: in episode eleven, And what did you find.
Speaker 2: From Angie's docket?
Speaker 4: We were just looking at that again recently. Let me see,
Speaker 4: let me find some notes here. I know for a
Speaker 4: fact that she showed up to her hearing. She did
Speaker 4: not have a warrant issue for her arrest, and she
Speaker 4: was fined two hundred and fifty dollars, but her charge
Speaker 4: was a Class B missdemeanor for exceeding the speed limit
Speaker 4: of twenty miles an hour or more.
Speaker 6: Because she successfully paid the fine and completed her probation,
Speaker 6: that won't be publicly available on case neet, but she
Speaker 6: had to get that a different.
Speaker 4: Way, and she well, this was on case net what
Speaker 4: I just said. Let's see, so she was That was
Speaker 4: June sixth of two thousand and that's the date that
Speaker 4: Kelly was also supposed to show up, and she skipped,
Speaker 4: and then it was a couple weeks after that that
Speaker 4: the warrant was issued for her arrest.
Speaker 1: And there's also an error on the date that they
Speaker 1: were arrested. I thought, in case at one point it
Speaker 1: said five on May fifteenth, but.
Speaker 2: It's actually April fifteenth.
Speaker 1: Why on this page does it only say the finest
Speaker 1: thirteen dollars. The sentence is fourteen dollars and ninety five cents.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, that's kind of one of
Speaker 4: those things that we're like, yeah, we know that this
Speaker 4: is an imperfect record, and that's why we've been waiting
Speaker 4: to not waiting, but trying to. You know, we've sent
Speaker 4: record requests to everybody. Nicole when we after we first
Speaker 4: found out about this issue, drove to Cooper County and
Speaker 4: went and looked looked for it physically, for records that
Speaker 4: we could find, you know, I mean, that's this is
Speaker 4: one of the problems you routinely run into with these
Speaker 4: kinds of cases, is that once it's been decades, you know,
Speaker 4: you're you're practically doing what's the word, I'm looking for
Speaker 4: archaeological examination, right, it's so I'm glad that Kelly able to,
Speaker 4: you know, say no, that that didn't happen. But at
Speaker 4: this point we still only have Kelly's word for it.
Speaker 4: And again, let's let's assume she's right and for some reason,
Speaker 4: her friend gets on a lower misdemeanor charge. Her friend
Speaker 4: gets two hundred and fifty dollars, but after having to
Speaker 4: issue a warrant that she's picked up on, she was
Speaker 4: only fined fifteen dollars. It's I don't know, it's just
Speaker 4: in my experience. There's we still got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: It is interesting that Angie got a two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty dollars fine and Kelly got only a fourteen dollars
Speaker 1: and ninety five cent fine. But how much would a
Speaker 1: minor be fined for a littering charge? Anything else anybody
Speaker 1: wants to say before we I would just like to
Speaker 1: say some of the stuff that Kelly said about Cooper
Speaker 1: County and getting arrested with Angie and taking her car back,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not true. I mean, Angie, we
Speaker 1: have an affidavid from Angie Gannino that contradicts that straight up.
Speaker 1: But I went back to Angie's affidavit, and she said
Speaker 1: this about what happened after she and Kelly were arrested. Quote,
Speaker 1: when we were pulled over, I was arrested and ticketed
Speaker 1: for driving ninety miles per hour in a seventy mile
Speaker 1: per hour zone. My vehicle was impounded and I was
Speaker 1: taken to the Cooper County jail. Kelly was ticketed for
Speaker 1: littering for throwing the bottle of alcohol out the window.
Speaker 1: I do not know if she was arrested. I do
Speaker 1: not know how she got back to Kansas City, Okay.
Speaker 1: Kelly told me that instead of impounding Angie's car, police
Speaker 1: gave Kelly Angie's car keys, and Kelly used Angie's car
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. I don't want to say more,
Speaker 1: but Kelly's not been truthful with you all the way.
Speaker 1: But I understand where you're coming from and wanting to
Speaker 1: Q and being worried and.
Speaker 4: Concerned, and we appreciate being fact checked. And yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean I think you So everything about our case still stands.
Speaker 4: Is arrested at least once, uh, which she denied ever
Speaker 4: being being in trouble with the police. She was convicted
Speaker 4: of a Class A misdemeanor which she lied about and
Speaker 4: which the prosecutors failed to disclose. That's the salient issue,
Speaker 4: and discovery and uh more investigation will get to the
Speaker 4: bottom of what exactly she was sentenced to. But if
Speaker 4: the only evidence refuting this is Kelly Moffatt, well that's
Speaker 4: hardly any evidence at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess what would it take for you
Speaker 1: to build it? And I'm not kelly spokesperson. I'm just
Speaker 1: asking these questions. What would take? What would it take
Speaker 1: for you to believe that Kelly in fact was not
Speaker 1: sentenced to forty eight hours shop jail time in two
Speaker 1: years probation.
Speaker 4: I would probably say some certified record that shows that
Speaker 4: that's all it was that or I don't know, a
Speaker 4: cashed check or some document or or the testimony of
Speaker 4: some other credible person other than Kelly that was there.
Speaker 4: You know, something along those lines would would be helpful. Obviously.
Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to sit anywhere and say, oh, well,
Speaker 4: if this happened. You know, every time something comes up,
Speaker 4: we're gonna have questions, and especially if it's something that
Speaker 4: Kelly is relying on. But but yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 4: wouldn't say we're not for our purposes. What she was
Speaker 4: sentenced to is almost beside the point, you know. The
Speaker 4: point is what we've already mentioned, that she was convicted,
Speaker 4: that she was in trouble, and that she lied about it, right.
Speaker 1: I think, I mean she was was in this morning,
Speaker 1: still very upset about this, just so you know, very upset.
Speaker 4: I mean that's Byron's been in prison for almost twenty
Speaker 4: five years because of her lives. So I don't really
Speaker 4: care if she's upset. But I'm glad you thanks for Tommins.
Speaker 1: I think our goals and this aren't you know, they're
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. You come from a
Speaker 1: journalist's point of view, and we're just presenting facts as.
Speaker 4: We see them.
Speaker 1: We may have, you know, hypotheticals. That's our job, you know,
Speaker 1: is to try to figure out what happened. And but
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm sorry to interrupt you, Nicole.
Speaker 2: I think the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I think Kelly's point right now is that she's been
Speaker 1: fighting credibility issues for a very long time and here's
Speaker 1: an example of something that's being used, wrongfully used against her,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I told you this didn't happen. This
Speaker 1: is a clerical error. This, This did not happen, and
Speaker 1: this is an example of stuff that's been used against
Speaker 1: me to try to make me look like a liar.
Speaker 2: And she's like, yes, I've lied in the past.
Speaker 1: There are things that I can't remember, but I remember
Speaker 1: the important stuff. She remembers what she said about Byron,
Speaker 1: and she remembers what she witnessed Byron.
Speaker 2: Do she remembers not.
Speaker 1: Going to jail and not spending being sentenced to probation,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's I don't know, I just.
Speaker 4: Well, and just just to put things in context too.
Speaker 4: What Kelly says about this is we learned about it
Speaker 4: when we were listening to the podcast. Right, We've never
Speaker 4: had it. We have yet to have the opportunity to
Speaker 4: find out anything more about this, you know. And we
Speaker 4: and when we asked Angie what she knew about it,
Speaker 4: she said, I don't know what happened. I don't know
Speaker 4: what happened after it. I don't know what happened with
Speaker 4: Kelly's thing, Right, She said that to me too, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and so and we we know for a fact though
Speaker 4: she got a warrant, and she got picked up on
Speaker 4: a warrant, and it seems very strange to me that
Speaker 4: a rural county judge would issue a bench warrant, and
Speaker 4: then once the person shows up in his courtroom on
Speaker 4: that bench warrant on a Class A misdemeanor, he says, Oh,
Speaker 4: never mind, I'm only going to sentence you to fifteen dollars. Fine.
Speaker 4: I just don't that. I still have a lot of
Speaker 4: questions about that, and just Kelly's word that that's all
Speaker 4: that happened just doesn't to me. That's not doesn't really
Speaker 4: move me.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you everyone, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, it's still great, I hope. Yeah, we're passionate
Speaker 4: about this.
Speaker 2: Thanks everyone, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: The next day, Brian and I speak again. One of
Speaker 1: the things Brian says is he doesn't want me to
Speaker 1: think the team was trying to pull one over on me. Okay,
Speaker 1: this was supposed to be our last episode, but there's
Speaker 1: still so much left to share, like what Byron's legal
Speaker 1: team and Byron have to say about some of Kelly's allegations,
Speaker 1: and what they have to say when I ask them.
Speaker 1: Some of your questions and mine. To see photos, maps,
Speaker 1: and documents really to this season's story. Follow the Real
Speaker 1: Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK podcast on TikTok.
Speaker 1: The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,
Speaker 1: hosted by me Leah Rothman, Executive producers Leah Rothman and
Speaker 1: Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, Editing
Speaker 1: and sound design by Cameron Taggi, Mixed and mastered by
Speaker 1: Cameron Taggi, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson,
Speaker 1: Legal consul for AYR Media. Jonni Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia,
Speaker 1: Maya Howard